--- Log opened Mon Aug 31 00:00:32 2009
20090831 00:07:49< stikonas> thespaceinvader: most likely once per day
20090831 00:08:31< thespaceinvader> i thought as much
20090831 00:08:36< thespaceinvader> just wondering
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20090831 00:22:30< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: you should see a "One Click Ban" link somewhere. Don't touch it ;)
20090831 00:24:12< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: uhm, okay
20090831 00:29:10< shadowmaster> it's gone now ;)
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20090831 01:38:10< AI0867> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26870 <-- Condition 'max_width > 0' failed at src/marked-up_text.cpp:397 in function 'word_wrap_text'.
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20090831 02:33:39< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: um, rsync: mkstemp "/home/frs/project/w/we/wesnoth/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.7.4/.Wesnoth_1.7.4.dmg.5AoSUs" failed: Permission denied (13)
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20090831 04:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.4, announcing "soon" | 85 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090831 09:02:29< Zarel> Hmm, I think this may have been brought up before, but does anyone know why Asheviere is chaotic?
20090831 09:12:01-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090831 09:12:05< YogiHH> hello
20090831 09:14:11< zookeeper> Zarel, probably for no other reason besides that she's "evil"
20090831 09:14:33< Zarel> zookeeper: Do you think people would agree to changing it?
20090831 09:14:40< zookeeper> well, i would
20090831 09:15:48< zookeeper> having a chaotic human queen of wesnoth is kinda silly
20090831 09:16:02< zookeeper> no matter how evil
20090831 09:16:05< Zarel> Especially since she's not very chaotic at all.
20090831 09:16:38< zookeeper> i'll change it to lawful
20090831 09:16:45< Zarel> :D
20090831 09:17:20< zookeeper> and people say it's hard for suggestions to get implemented?
20090831 09:17:38< Zarel> But shouldn't this should be discussed more extensively first? o_O
20090831 09:18:00 * zookeeper shrugs
20090831 09:19:01< zookeeper> i'm officially the current maintainer, and while there are a couple of people whose opinion would weigh as much as mine, i really doubt they'd be against such a change
20090831 09:19:31< Zarel> Hello, IRC log readers! I am not to blame for this change! Please direct your complaints, if any, towards zookeeper!
20090831 09:19:49 * Rhonda . o O ( it's all Zarel's fault )
20090831 09:20:12 * Rhonda . o O ( going to edit out the last three lines out of the log )
20090831 09:20:14< zookeeper> besides, there's plenty of time to revert it before the next release if it's not wanted ;)
20090831 09:21:13< Zarel> True, but for a change only noticeable by playing the last level of HttT and paying close attention, it certainly seems like the kind of thing people would only notice well after 1.8.2 was released.
20090831 09:22:35< zookeeper> well, i think the only people who might actually have much of an opinion either way would be esr and sirp
20090831 09:22:40 * Rhonda hides from Zarel
20090831 09:23:00< zookeeper> easy enough to ask what they think, but again, i really doubt that..
20090831 09:23:25< Zarel> Heh. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I really doubt that any developers would object.
20090831 09:24:04< Zarel> Rhonda: You should have fabricated something like
20090831 09:24:18< Zarel> <zookeeper> I'm not sure if I should just commit this directly...
20090831 09:24:27< Zarel> <Zarel> DO IT. I'll take full blame if something goes wrong!
20090831 09:25:44< Zarel> Actually, if it means I'll get to talk to esr himself, that's worth getting the blame for it. :P
20090831 09:25:53< Rhonda> Why should I do it if you do it better yourself? :P
20090831 09:26:32< zookeeper> Zarel, yeah, if i thought it might be a controversial change, i'd try to discuss it more extensively first
20090831 09:28:05< Zarel> zookeeper: I get the feeling at times, people mistake my joking observations for actual objections to a course of action. :P I fully support you in your decision to implement this directly.
20090831 09:28:12< Rhonda> damn
20090831 09:28:42< Zarel> Also, hello, IRC log readers! If you object to a lawful Asheviere, screw you!
20090831 09:29:00 * Rhonda . o O ( I screwed the logs )
20090831 09:29:27< Zarel> You could just copy/paste your IRC client buffer over. ;)
20090831 09:31:39< Rhonda> Too cheap
20090831 09:32:11< Rhonda> ah!
20090831 09:32:27< Zarel> ?
20090831 09:33:15< CIA-62> zookeeper * r38259 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/units/Dark_Queen.cfg: Changed Asheviere to be lawful instead of chaotic.
20090831 09:34:49< Zarel> And now to suggest that Elder Mage be added as a recruitable unit for Rebels in Default Era! :P
20090831 09:35:37< Zarel> Because... you know... Delfador was a rebel. ;)
20090831 09:37:00 * wesbot bites Zarel
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20090831 09:49:56< corn> Rhonda: hi
20090831 09:50:23< corn> I want to try to get rid of mod_proxy and the extra http server on port 9090 today by switching to mod_wsgi
20090831 09:51:04< corn> can you install libapache2-mod-wsgi ? that should be the mod_wsgi package for apache
20090831 09:51:34< corn> I'll ready things in my webapp and then I'll send you something with the required apache config changes. then we can prepare for massive breakage ;)
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20090831 09:52:57< corn> if you need more info: http://turbogears.org/2.0/docs/main/Deployment/modwsgi+virtualenv.html . mod_wsgi is the python handler for apache. I think the biggest change I'll have to make is how static files are serveed
20090831 09:53:18< euschn> Ivanovic: I have put up a gsoc wrap-up on my wiki page: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_Euschn#GSoC_2009:_Summary
20090831 09:53:48< Rhonda> corn: Can't do that now, I don't have my key at my workplace and haven't set any password.
20090831 09:54:13< corn> Rhonda: ok, that's fine
20090831 09:54:41< corn> when will you be around to do this? I'll probably be around in 12 hrs
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20090831 09:57:04< Rhonda> probably more like 10 hours for me
20090831 09:57:23< corn> ok
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20090831 10:12:18< CIA-62> cornmander * r38260 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
20090831 10:12:18< CIA-62> Added initial version of config files for apache+mod_wsgi stack to replace the current apache+mod_proxy+cherrypy
20090831 10:12:18< CIA-62> stack. Added conn.commit() to actually commit INSERTs - required now since all tables are InnoDB type. Fixed bugs
20090831 10:12:18< CIA-62> in log_type parsing.
20090831 10:16:34< euschn> YogiHH: Im currently looking at moving the non-OO savegame config parts to savegame_config.hpp - its basically write_events() and write_music_playlist(). both use their respective anonymous namespace quite a bit, does that mean I can merely wrap these functions in savegame_config.hpp?
20090831 10:17:09< euschn> and a general question: does it matter whether I add a freestanding function or a static function of class savegame_config?
20090831 10:22:00< Ivanovic> moin
20090831 10:22:07< Ivanovic> euschn: uhm, your summary is "too long"
20090831 10:22:24< Ivanovic> euschn: that is: some *really* short text of something like two paragraphs would be best
20090831 10:22:27< euschn> Ivanovic: ok, how long would you like it?
20090831 10:22:47< euschn> I see, will prepare a shorter version then
20090831 10:22:54< Ivanovic> since there are many "non technical" people in the forums reading it, too
20090831 10:23:03< Ivanovic> please send the short summary to me via forum pm
20090831 10:23:18< euschn> ok
20090831 10:23:20< Ivanovic> and feel free to like some "for more details, have a look at WIKIPAGE"
20090831 10:23:38< euschn> will do
20090831 10:24:40< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen deekay
20090831 10:24:40< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick deekay last spoke 4d 7h ago.  3d 6h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090831 10:24:46< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen dragonking
20090831 10:24:46< wesbot> Ivanovic: Person, who 4d 20h ago used nick Dragonking, last spoke 4d 7h ago.  3d 6h ago as deekay was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090831 10:26:09< YogiHH> euschn: I don't think it matters much from a technical viewpoint. However, a static function would mean that every class inheriting from savegame_config would get it, which is not modeling the facts correctly. So i'd rather go for a freestanding function.
20090831 10:27:37< euschn> YogiHH:ok, is it ok to name the namespace savegame_config aswell or would that cause any issues?
20090831 10:28:42< YogiHH> euschn: To be honest, i am not so familiar with namespaces in C++. Maybe someone else can help on this?
20090831 10:32:51< corn> euschn, YogiHH: just try it and see if something breaks :)
20090831 10:33:56< corn> if it's something that the compiler or linker would get confused on, it will tell you
20090831 10:34:14< YogiHH> indeed, not the worst plan :)
20090831 10:35:53< euschn> mhm i guess not
20090831 10:36:03< corn> it doesn't work?
20090831 10:36:15< euschn> sec, trying
20090831 10:38:08< euschn> corn, YogiHH: 
20090831 10:38:11< euschn> savegame_config.hpp:32: error: ‘namespace savegame_config { }’ redeclared as different kind of symbol
20090831 10:38:12< euschn> src/ai/../savegame_config.hpp:24: error: previous declaration of ‘class savegame_config’
20090831 10:38:31< euschn> so i guess it doesnt work
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20090831 10:43:26< corn> euschn: I just tested myself, if you try to declare a class with the same name as a namespace outside of the namespace, it will fail
20090831 10:43:31< corn> but it works if you declare it inside of the namespace
20090831 10:44:04< corn> this is interesting for me since I am still a C++ newbie
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20090831 10:47:15< Ivanovic> corn: (i hope you got DB access to do this) could you please "slim down" the database DB?
20090831 10:47:20< Ivanovic> that is: currently the DB has 15GB
20090831 10:47:36< Ivanovic> and i think everything prior to 1.6 can simply be completely wiped from the face of earth
20090831 10:48:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: not everythingm imo. some stats on 'how many data was submitted for prior versions' is interesting to note somewhere.
20090831 10:48:59< Ivanovic> Crab_: we do *not* have the space on our backup drive to cope with the current DB
20090831 10:49:06< corn> Ivanovic, Crab_: I was planning on tarring up everything before 1.6
20090831 10:49:17< Ivanovic> Crab_: and thus i am for a *complete* removal of everything prior to 1.6
20090831 10:49:30< Ivanovic> corn: forget tar, complete removal is in place
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20090831 10:49:55< zookeeper> what data is that?
20090831 10:49:56< Crab_> Ivanovic: just storing the number of records per version will take a Kb or two.
20090831 10:49:58< corn> Ivanovic: ok. I switched table structure a lot so the old logs (from now on known as v1) are of limited use anyway
20090831 10:50:01< corn> zookeeper: upload logs
20090831 10:50:07< zookeeper> oh, right.
20090831 10:50:35< corn> Ivanovic: I can check if I have db access, if so I will wipe everything pre-1.6
20090831 10:50:45< Ivanovic> okay
20090831 10:51:36< corn> Ivanovic: an update on stats.wesnoth.org progress: the upload recieving portion is working, but the part that shows things on the site is not
20090831 10:51:44< corn> I should have it done today
20090831 10:51:50< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38261 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/Fire.cfg: Fix broken advancement path for Fire Drake.
20090831 10:52:18< corn> but my schedule is going to be different now since school starts today - I will be on from ~4 EST to ~12 EST
20090831 10:52:45< Ivanovic> corn: sure, take your time
20090831 10:53:12< corn> Ivanovic: what is the db name for the old stats database?
20090831 10:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.4, announcing "soon" | 86 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090831 11:03:57< Ivanovic> okay, the backup of /home is now down to 18GB instead of 51GB
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20090831 11:23:44< euschn> corn: thanks for the tip, works. tho the class is of course now called savegame_config::savegame_config, which seems clumsy. guess i will just name the namespace differently
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20090831 11:44:05< YogiHH> euschn: I was thinking of "savegame" as namespace. There is a corresponding class as well, but i think it fits better and we can use that namespace for savegame.cpp as well.
20090831 11:44:34< euschn> YogiHH: ok
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20090831 11:52:07< esr> zookeeper: I don't particularly object to making Asheviere lawful. Though maybe neutral would be just as good for gameplay purposes, and nott seem slightly odd. 
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20090831 13:08:16< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38262 /trunk/ (configure.ac src/wesconfig.h): post release version bump to 1.7.4+svn
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20090831 14:48:12< shadowmaster> bah, translators.
20090831 14:48:45< shadowmaster> s/translators/internationalization managers/
20090831 14:54:20< shadowmaster> euschn: please don't forget to move yourself from the "Miscellaneous contributors" list to "Programming" (first section, amongst other developers)
20090831 14:58:29< Rhonda> I still can't move myself around, where am I listed these days anyway? :)
20090831 14:59:37< CIA-62> alink * r38263 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): 
20090831 14:59:37< CIA-62> Move some simple common map_location functions from pathutils.hpp to map_location.hpp
20090831 14:59:37< CIA-62> where they more clearly belongs. Allow to simplify some includes.
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20090831 15:04:00< alink> which one is better "tiles_adjacent(a,b)" or "a.adjacent(b)"? The first better show the symmetry, but I prefer the latter because in code you often have a main hex to check with different secondary hexes
20090831 15:04:12< alink> plus we can skip the "tiles_" prefix
20090831 15:05:50< alink> also, i wish to move the function into the class
20090831 15:06:37< alink> mmh get_adjacent_tiles(a, *res) is a even more clear case for a change like that
20090831 15:09:37< alink> anyway just toying with the idea for now, a lot of occurrences to change, not in the mood for that right now
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20090831 15:19:48< Soliton> both is fine i guess. though if you want to move the function to the class then you clearly want the latter.
20090831 15:24:31< alink> yeah, then I will probably do that, the class has already function like "get the north adjacent hex" and it's always more handy to have similar functions grouped together
20090831 15:26:07< alink> this is why i just moved them into the same file making now the move into the same class possible
20090831 15:28:27< alink> other topic: this new "resources" idea seems handy. Who did this and does it have any drawbacks compared to the old annoying ways ?
20090831 15:31:03< alink> ah seems to be silene, then thanks silene :-)
20090831 15:35:07< shadowmaster> Rhonda: you are listed among the Packagers and the German Translators
20090831 15:36:20 * wesbot . o O ( and in disguise under bots )
20090831 15:37:30< Rhonda> wesbot: Liez!
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20090831 16:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.4, announcing "soon" | 87 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090831 17:03:53< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen boucman
20090831 17:03:54< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 1d 7h ago.  16h 30m ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
20090831 17:05:06< shadowmaster> boucman: would you mind if I change all instances of "I/me/my/mine" (you) in the Patch Submission Guidelines article to "we/us/our/ours" (us) ?
20090831 17:05:37< shadowmaster> since you don't seem to be the only one processing patches nowadays
20090831 17:17:13< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: so I got the permission denied thing yesterday after uploading for ~3 hours; now I'm uploading with ,wesnoth and it's at 85%
20090831 17:17:47< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: Hm. There seems to be already a dmg file there.
20090831 17:17:58< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: really? how big is it?
20090831 17:19:13< loonycyborg> 166Mb
20090831 17:19:45< crimson_penguin> that's maybe my in-progress upload
20090831 17:19:48< crimson_penguin> I stopped it over night
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20090831 18:05:04< shadowmaster> how can I filter patches by author, regardless of Open/Closed status?
20090831 18:06:24< shadowmaster> going to the author's page only shows me their Open items...
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20090831 18:18:41< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: dmg is up
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20090831 19:12:52< boucman> hey all
20090831 19:14:12< alink> hello boucman
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20090831 19:23:23< shadowmaster> boucman: I left you a few messages
20090831 19:23:31< boucman> what about ?
20090831 19:23:49< shadowmaster> why not grep today's log for "seen boucman" and check for yourself? :P
20090831 19:24:03< boucman> sure :)
20090831 19:24:57< boucman> shadowmaster: will do, no problem
20090831 19:25:09< shadowmaster> okay then
20090831 19:26:14< grzywacz> hi
20090831 19:27:10< alink> hi grzywacz
20090831 19:29:36-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@212.124.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090831 19:29:53< boucman> what are the different build files to update when adding an new file ?
20090831 19:31:37< boucman> done
20090831 19:31:40< shadowmaster> src/Makefile.am, src/SConscript, src/CMakeLists.txt or something
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20090831 19:32:03< shadowmaster> all three are correct, yays!
20090831 19:32:33< shadowmaster> boucman: done what?
20090831 19:32:51< boucman> updating, the patch submission post
20090831 19:32:59< grzywacz> hey alink, long time no see
20090831 19:33:04< shadowmaster> I thought shadowmaster was going to do it.
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20090831 19:33:23< boucman> shadowmaster: didn't you ask me to do it ?
20090831 19:33:31< shadowmaster> um, I am shadowmaster 
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20090831 19:33:48< shadowmaster> boucman: no, I was asking you whether it'd be a good idea to do it. I was implying I'd do it :)
20090831 19:34:14< boucman> oh well
20090831 19:34:19< shadowmaster> actually, I didn't even imply it. I said it explicitly :P "would you mind if I change all"
20090831 19:34:19< boucman> that much less for you to do ;)
20090831 19:34:31< alink> grzywacz: yes i know, but that seems to give me more energy to do wesnoth coding when i am back :)
20090831 19:34:56< shadowmaster> boucman: I don't see it done though
20090831 19:35:25< shadowmaster> (I have been talking of http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/PatchSubmissionGuidelines all this time)
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20090831 19:35:38< boucman> shadowmaster: oh
20090831 19:35:49< boucman> I updated the sticky in coder's corner, not the wiki page...
20090831 19:36:11< shadowmaster> okay, that's excellent, I didn't even remember it existed :)
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20090831 19:36:25< boucman> i didn't know about the other one :P
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20090831 19:40:49< stikonas> Chusslove: are you sure that font size 42 is enough for logo localization to get the same sized text as in English version?
20090831 19:40:59< stikonas> I get a bit smaller text
20090831 19:41:23< stikonas> oh, sorry, I have'nt resized it yet
20090831 19:42:30< Chusslove> stikonas: Well, that with font sizes is frequently a bit fuzzy (e.g. does it relate to screen DPI, or drawing DPI...)
20090831 19:42:43< Chusslove> ...and how is the screen DPI set...
20090831 19:43:37< stikonas> after layer resize, the size is similar to english one
20090831 19:43:45< shadowmaster> boucman: updated the wiki page
20090831 19:43:48< boucman> thx
20090831 19:43:50< shadowmaster> thanks for the forum post.
20090831 19:43:52< shadowmaster> :)
20090831 19:46:02< Chusslove> stikonas: Size may also depend on how you want to arrange text. E.g. in that sreenshot I attached, I couldn't use all-horizontal layout due to too different lengths of words.
20090831 19:48:04< stikonas> thanks for info
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20090831 19:58:17< thespaceinvader> boucman: can i take a moment to question you about how to implement the take-off/landing thing in WML? I looked at the documentation in the wiki, but i don't understand what i need to do to make it work
20090831 19:58:30< dmj726> I was just discussing music I released under a cc-by-sa license recently on #freegamer.
20090831 19:58:33< thespaceinvader> also, can it be applied in the same way to standing animations?  If not, could this be made possible
20090831 19:58:37< dmj726> They mentioned you guys might like it.
20090831 19:58:45< dmj726> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/51217
20090831 19:59:09< boucman> thespaceinvader: the more I think of it, the more I think it's not what you want and we will have to change it
20090831 19:59:34< boucman> basically, what you can do is "replace" the flying animation for the first and last hex, but it still has to be 150ms long
20090831 19:59:40< thespaceinvader> dmj726: we generally look for music written specifically for the project - if you're willing to do that, then i'm sure your work would be appreciated, but we don't usually accept work from elsewhere
20090831 19:59:50< thespaceinvader> boucman: ah ok
20090831 19:59:56< thespaceinvader> no, that's not really what we need
20090831 20:00:27< boucman> yes, I think you want an animation to be played before the mvt animation itself
20090831 20:00:41< boucman> (i'm not sure what you mean by replacing the standing anim, though
20090831 20:00:47< thespaceinvader> the idea would be to have the option on movement (and ideally, standing as well) animations by which you could specify a set of frames to go at the beginning, a set to go at the end, and a set to be looped for as long as necessary
20090831 20:01:33< boucman> ok
20090831 20:02:05< thespaceinvader> so you could launch into the animation, have it look whilst the unit is moving or whilst they are standing still if necessary, and then have the finish part play when they need to do something else
20090831 20:02:13< boucman> thespaceinvader: that doesn't fit well with the current way animations work, but i'll give it some thought
20090831 20:02:31< thespaceinvader> the standing animation bit is important because all the flying drakes will play the flight anim when over water, and the glider line will play it all the time
20090831 20:02:35< thespaceinvader> thanks boucman 
20090831 20:02:37< boucman> the finish part is particularly tricky since we usually don't know when we finish
20090831 20:02:46< thespaceinvader> i'll hold off on the WML improvements for a while
20090831 20:02:53< thespaceinvader> ah
20090831 20:02:59< thespaceinvader> yeah, i can see that could be a problem
20090831 20:03:17< boucman> we do for mvt anim, though, which is good
20090831 20:03:24< thespaceinvader> yeah
20090831 20:03:38< thespaceinvader> even if it would only work for movement, it would be a great boon to have
20090831 20:03:40< alink> dmj726: maybe try to propose it in the music forum : http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
20090831 20:03:56< boucman> i'm still not sure why you want it for standing though, could you  explin again, focusing on what you want it to look like, rather than how to implement it in WML
20090831 20:05:15< thespaceinvader> a drake fighter moves onto water (unlike the current scheme, the drake fighter will be standing, rather than constantly flying, when it's on land) - it should then take off and go into the flying animation for the time whilst it's over the water
20090831 20:05:23< alink> dmj726: also even if not included in the mainline game, it's still possible that a good add-on use it :)
20090831 20:05:32< thespaceinvader> except, of course, that the take off would happen as part of the movement, wouldn't it?
20090831 20:05:59< thespaceinvader> then, ideally, it would land again when it attacks or is attacked, before any attack animations play
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20090831 20:06:24< dmj726> alink: sure.  I wrote this a while ago, and figured it would be nice to share it.  I'm open to customizing it to fit.
20090831 20:07:44< alink> dmj726: ok, just saying because IIRC wesnoth arts is mainly forum based, this channel is often more for coding and dev stuff
20090831 20:09:20< boucman> thespaceinvader: so, it flies when moving, flies when standing over warter terrains, and fights on land
20090831 20:09:28< boucman> and transitions are "logical"
20090831 20:09:35< dmj726> alink: thanks
20090831 20:09:53< thespaceinvader> boucman: yes, that sounds like a good explanation
20090831 20:10:18< grzywacz> boucman, the only thing that bothers me about drakes flying constantly is why they bother to land when attacked :P
20090831 20:10:25< boucman> ok, tsi, at this point I understand what you want, i'll look into it and get back to you when WML is able to do that ;)
20090831 20:10:30< thespaceinvader> the glider line would be 'flying all the time except when fighting,, with logical transitions', but if you can do the former case, the latter would not be a problem
20090831 20:10:36< thespaceinvader> ok, thanks boucman 
20090831 20:10:48< boucman> grzywacz: fighting in the air requires great skill all drakes are not able to master
20090831 20:11:00< grzywacz> boucman, I mean, why engage at all?
20090831 20:11:37< grzywacz> It looks like: an enemy comes and yells "hey you, come down here, we fight!" and the drake obeys ;)
20090831 20:11:53< alink> it's the fighter spirit of all drakes ;-p
20090831 20:12:02< grzywacz> I knew someone would bring that up. :P
20090831 20:13:30< grzywacz> anyone with Chanserv access @ #wesnoth?
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20090831 20:15:19< alink> grzywacz: alternate explanation: they are not high enough to avoid the fight and their wings are fragile, better fold them in their back when fighting
20090831 20:15:26< zookeeper> grzywacz, yeah, trying to figure out the right command..
20090831 20:15:32< zookeeper> if you wanna speed it up, tell me ;)
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20090831 20:17:27< alink> grzywacz: or the muscles of the arms are somehow linked to wings, so they can't use their hands reliably when flying
20090831 20:18:01< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: fighting in the air requires more time than we have for our animations, unfortunately
20090831 20:18:06< thespaceinvader> it's jusyt too somplicated
20090831 20:18:27< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, no no, I'd just expect them to fly only when moving, maybe with the exception of the glider :)
20090831 20:20:09< alink> it's for the consistency of their field of vision ;p
20090831 20:20:19< thespaceinvader> yeah - i'd love to animate the glider line to be flying constantly, including when attacking, but it's just too difficult
20090831 20:23:16< alink> mmh but if they don't have ranged attack, they should not land just to take ranged damage. Unless you use my fragile wings explanation
20090831 20:23:17< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, out of curiosity, have you changed burner/figher colors recently?
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20090831 20:23:46< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: why do you ask?
20090831 20:23:59< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, during a developer game we had a few weeks ago in a bunch of fighters/burners mixed together it was impossible to tell one unit from another without careful observation
20090831 20:24:11< shadowmaster> rr/window 27
20090831 20:24:13< thespaceinvader> due to all the flying?
20090831 20:24:31< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, due to similar sprite and similar colors; flying might have obscured it further
20090831 20:24:40< thespaceinvader> the burner and fightwer shoudl be reasonably easy to tell apart, what with one of them being green and the other grey
20090831 20:24:57< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, what about colorblind people? ;)
20090831 20:25:08< thespaceinvader> but once the flight anims are filtered properly and only take place over water, the problem should go away
20090831 20:25:10< grzywacz> Anyway, I'm going to experiment now.
20090831 20:25:19< grzywacz> Hm, yes. Probably. :)
20090831 20:25:20< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: that's why the fighter has weapons ;)
20090831 20:26:00< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, they're not easy to spot on an animated sprite, but that brings us to the point of filtering anims. thanks for explanation :)
20090831 20:26:19< thespaceinvader> yeah, indeed, i know
20090831 20:26:26< thespaceinvader> the filtering will sort that issue
20090831 20:26:56< thespaceinvader> but i'm not planning on doing that until the take-off/landings are sorted
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20090831 20:27:04< thespaceinvader> or until 1.8, whichever comes sooner
20090831 20:29:00< stikonas> Chusslove: if this looks OK to you, can you commit lithuanian logo: http://stikonas.homelinux.org/files/bfw-logo-lt.png
20090831 20:32:43< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, http://vischeck.homeip.net/uploads/vc_BOm6Xn_sim.jpg or http://vischeck.homeip.net/uploads/vc_BOm6Xn_orig.jpg
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20090831 20:34:11< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: indeed, they're not easy to tell apart when flying
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20090831 20:34:51< thespaceinvader> but do bear in mind: i'm only animating them, i've had very little input into the sprite design
20090831 20:35:32< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, I know, I hope you don't find that annoying
20090831 20:36:29< thespaceinvader> not hugely - i wouldnt have been able to come up with designs to match neo's, and it's his baby anyway really
20090831 20:37:29< Chusslove> stikonas: Something went wrong with shadows (behind shields, letters) -- they are not transparent.
20090831 20:37:41< grzywacz> They are very good, but in terms of distinguishability I preferred his previous ones :-)
20090831 20:37:53< Chusslove> stikonas: Do you have the XCF image?
20090831 20:38:08< stikonas> Chusslove: of course
20090831 20:38:16< stikonas> do you need it?
20090831 20:38:34< stikonas> http://stikonas.homelinux.org/files/bfw-logo-lt.xcf
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20090831 20:39:14< mordante> servus
20090831 20:39:15< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: there are some issues in that regard, i grant you
20090831 20:40:14 * mordante blames Zarel :-P
20090831 20:40:23< stikonas> Chusslove: how do I tell if shadows are transparent?
20090831 20:40:38< Chusslove> stikonas: OK, XCF is good, and when I export it to PNG, the transparency is there.
20090831 20:40:43< mordante> Rhonda, more to remove :-P^^^
20090831 20:40:57< Chusslove> stikonas: When you save as PNG, it shows you a dialog with number of checkboxes, right?
20090831 20:41:02< stikonas> yes
20090831 20:41:29 * Chusslove is starting Gimp in English...
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20090831 20:41:37< stikonas> and transparency option was checked
20090831 20:43:08< Chusslove> stikonas: In my dialog, the following options are checked:
20090831 20:43:10< stikonas> the most difficult part of creating this logo was downgrading X from git (June) to 1.6.3 so that Gimp works
20090831 20:43:18< Chusslove> Save background color
20090831 20:43:22< Chusslove> Save resolution
20090831 20:43:27< Chusslove> Save creation time
20090831 20:43:37< Chusslove> Save color values from transparent pixels
20090831 20:43:43< Chusslove> That's it.
20090831 20:43:46< stikonas> the same
20090831 20:43:52< Chusslove> Hrngh.
20090831 20:44:02< stikonas> Chusslove: I ran optipng on that file
20090831 20:44:08< Chusslove> Oh, I have an idea, just a sec...
20090831 20:44:10< stikonas> maybe this was the cause
20090831 20:44:46< Rhonda> mordante: Sorry, I don't fake history anymore. :)
20090831 20:45:30< mordante> the question is is omitting history faking it ;-)
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20090831 20:46:12< Chusslove> stikonas: What was the exact command line with optipng?
20090831 20:46:19< ilor> Ivanovic: it's possible I may have changed the default while adding storage for the setting
20090831 20:46:28< stikonas> optipng bfw*.png
20090831 20:46:55< ilor> Ivanovic: re the editor coords overlay question a while back
20090831 20:47:12< Ivanovic> ilor: looks like you have done so
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20090831 20:49:23< Chusslove> stikonas: Problem at my side :) I clicked on the link, the image popped up in... kviewshell? and when I saved it, it ruined the transparency.
20090831 20:49:51< Chusslove> So false alarm.
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20090831 21:03:56< mordante> Ivanovic, which version of xgettext do you use?
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20090831 21:06:33< stikonas> mordante: are there any other gettext versions except 0.17 at all
20090831 21:06:48< stikonas> 0.17 was released 3 years ago, so it is even in debian oldstable
20090831 21:08:01< mordante> thanks stikonas wasn't aware the version hasn't changed for years
20090831 21:08:21 * stikonas is waiting for gettext 0.18
20090831 21:08:41< mordante> I just ran a pot-update locally and have an annoying amount of differences (all trivial but annoying to review)
20090831 21:09:16< mordante> no real differences only in the comment
20090831 21:10:19< stikonas> mordante: that is usual with Ivanovic's pot-updates, e.g.: 10 files changed, 988 insertions(+), 948 deletions(-)
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20090831 21:10:27< grzywacz> 1.6.4+svn hangs when I join one of "era of high sorcery" games with "quick replays" on
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20090831 21:11:19< mordante> stikonas, I ran it directly after Ivanovic's commit, want to do some tests... guess I'll make a git branch and commit my changes first
20090831 21:11:36< mordante> so I only expected the dates to be modified
20090831 21:16:19< stikonas> Chusslove: will you commit Lithuanian logo?
20090831 21:16:49< stikonas> I want to see how it looks in Wesnoth :)
20090831 21:17:12< Chusslove> stikonas: I'm just compiling to make sure all is right -- this is the first non-my image I'm committing :)
20090831 21:17:38< stikonas> Chusslove: btw, if I want to test images myself, recompilation is necessary?
20090831 21:17:48< stikonas> or is it enough to copy to data dir
20090831 21:18:45< Chusslove> stikonas: Actually it is enough to copy to correct installed location.
20090831 21:19:20< Chusslove> Just find every logo.png in installed tree (there are two), and if it's in path foo/bar/logo.png, put the localized image in foo/bar/l10n/lt/logo.png
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20090831 21:25:44< fendrin> hello
20090831 21:25:54< mordante> hi fendrin 
20090831 21:26:16< Chusslove> stikonas: There is a message "en_US" in wesnoth-lib.po which you need to translate to "lt".
20090831 21:30:52< stikonas> Chusslove: thanks
20090831 21:36:21< stikonas> Ivanovic: can you commit Lithuanian translation update that I've just sent you. Chusslove's commit depends on it.
20090831 21:37:31< Chusslove> stikonas: Well, not exactly depends... I tweaked here, got it in the game, I'm just looking at something else.
20090831 21:39:38< Chusslove> stikonas: Committed.
20090831 21:39:48< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r38264 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Updated localized images for Lithuanian.
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20090831 22:04:50< Ivanovic> stikonas: sorry, was not around before
20090831 22:05:08< stikonas> no problem, I'm still compiling trunk
20090831 22:05:29< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38265 /trunk/po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
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20090831 22:06:40< Chusslove> stikonas: Here's a somewhat related question: what do you plan to do with images (especially XCF) wrt. Git repository?
20090831 22:07:14< Chusslove> I didn't put mine in it. Because there is no diff, so when someone pulls the repository, he would get all versions of all images in full.
20090831 22:07:27< stikonas> Chusslove: haven't decieded yet, maybe separate repository
20090831 22:08:04< Ivanovic> Soliton: so the server is already updated to accept 1.7.4, right?
20090831 22:08:08< Chusslove> At this moment, this bit seems to me a weak element of full-local-history VCS.
20090831 22:08:11< Ivanovic> (working on coing the announcement right now)
20090831 22:11:32< stikonas> Chusslove: does 2 slightly different XCF images use double size, or zlib can compress them to something smaller
20090831 22:12:02< stikonas> because if it does, then you won't have a huge repository
20090831 22:12:03< fendrin> Crab_ corn Soliton everyone else: multiplayer game against ai?
20090831 22:12:12< Chusslove> stikonas: Hm, haven't thought about it...
20090831 22:13:05< stikonas> Chusslove: what about optipng runs?
20090831 22:13:15< stikonas> won't they fuzzy all translations of images
20090831 22:13:33< stikonas> Ivanovic runs them from time to time
20090831 22:13:49< Chusslove> stikonas: They will. But when I see all images getting fuzzy, I'll check the log, see it was optimization run, and unfuzzy.
20090831 22:14:18< Ivanovic> Chusslove: if you run utils/wesnoth-optipng on the files before commiting my commits should do nothing
20090831 22:14:42< Chusslove> Right. So I don't expect it to happen a lot, given very few images to localize.
20090831 22:15:16< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Ah, didn't understand. If I don't run it on *localized* images, and your commit optimizes them, then no problem.
20090831 22:15:36< Ivanovic> yes, but i only run it every X months
20090831 22:15:37< Chusslove> Problem only if the original images gets optimized after having been translated. Then I have to intervene.
20090831 22:15:45< Ivanovic> and it might be nice to directly commit optimized ones
20090831 22:15:46< stikonas> Ivanovic: but optipng will change non-localized images
20090831 22:15:46< Ivanovic> ;)
20090831 22:15:55< stikonas> thespaceinvader: ^^
20090831 22:15:57< Chusslove> Ivanovic: I intend to :)
20090831 22:16:04< Ivanovic> stikonas: a once optimised image will not be optimized further
20090831 22:16:17< Ivanovic> stikonas: so it can only be optimized when something was changed
20090831 22:16:33< thespaceinvader> stikonas: what?
20090831 22:17:01< stikonas> if you commit some png files that contains english text, please run optipng before commiting
20090831 22:17:26< mordante> I'm off night
20090831 22:17:29< Ivanovic> stikonas: normally thespaceinvader does not commit anything with text
20090831 22:17:34< stikonas> ah, ok
20090831 22:17:41< Ivanovic> (that is stuff with embedded text is seldom anyway)
20090831 22:17:47< thespaceinvader> no, i don't, and i don't have a clue how to run optipng either
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20090831 22:20:52< Chusslove> stikonas: As for compressing images, I've now changed slightly the contrast of logo, and two compressed PNGs (even with bzip2) are almost double the size. Ok, one might say changing contrast is not such a small change on the bit-level...
20090831 22:20:52< stikonas> We are probably the first FOSS game that has support for localized images
20090831 22:21:47< Chusslove> *almost double the size == two compressed almost equal in size to two uncompressed.
20090831 22:24:38< Crab_> fendrin: I'm somewhat busy, so, sorry
20090831 22:25:40< fendrin> Ivanovic: There is an assertion error when playing LoW. Shall I mark the bug report as a blocker for 1.6.5?
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20090831 22:25:51< Ivanovic> ???
20090831 22:25:54< Ivanovic> fendrin: details!
20090831 22:27:13< fendrin> Ivanovic: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26509
20090831 22:31:18< fendrin> Ivanovic: There is already a bug report with a unguter name. https://gna.org/bugs/?14172
20090831 22:31:36< Ivanovic> fendrin: you have "moderator" privs as group member at gna
20090831 22:31:47< Ivanovic> you are free to change the bug title to a better fitting name
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20090831 22:32:08< Ivanovic> everybody: release announcement for 1.7.4: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26888
20090831 22:33:09< fendrin> Ivanovic: Right, I know. The question is: Shall I try to code around the bug (change the wml) or is this an issue that still needs to be fixed in the engine for 1.6.5.
20090831 22:33:51< Ivanovic> hmm, no idea
20090831 22:33:59< Crab_> fendrin: IMO, for stable branch, It's better to change the WML of one scenario, than to change the engine which can break more..
20090831 22:34:00< Ivanovic> i'd guess try to work around it in wml
20090831 22:34:22< Ivanovic> exactly what Crab_ says (especially since basically noone is still working on the code side of 1.6.x)
20090831 22:35:29< fendrin> Ivanovic, Crab_: I agree. Will reasign the bug to me.
20090831 22:39:36< fendrin> Ivanovic: The announcement sounds good. 
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20090831 22:46:33< Ivanovic> okay, updated the frontpage, too
20090831 22:46:46< Ivanovic> (for those that do need a link: http://www.wesnoth.org/ ;) )
20090831 22:47:21-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 87 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090831 22:47:39< Ivanovic> Soliton: feel free to update the motd on the mp server
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20090831 22:52:48< Ivanovic> 1.7.4 should now be completely done
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20090831 22:56:48< stikonas> Chusslove: do you think it would be possible to implement reloading of images, when Main Menu->Language changes without restart of wesnoth?
20090831 23:00:00< Chusslove> stikonas: Uh-oh, I haven't even thought about that (when testing I'm changing language in ~/.wesnoth*/preferences :)
20090831 23:00:54< Chusslove> Even changing all text on the fly seems magic to me, will have to investigate how it's done.
20090831 23:01:39< stikonas> maybe silene can help you, when he will be online
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20090831 23:04:14< stikonas> Chusslove: in src/language.cpp there is set_language function
20090831 23:05:39< stikonas> but I have no idea where you set the language
20090831 23:05:47< stikonas> for localized resources
20090831 23:07:13< Chusslove> stikonas: What I'm seeing is setting some internal and environment variables to new language, but not how does it happen that all text on screen is pushed again through gettext calls and redrawn...
20090831 23:11:56< Chusslove> stikonas: The patch to allow localized images was actually quite trivial :) I'm afraid that making them instantly change on language change will be difficult, if no worse.
20090831 23:12:07< Chusslove> *if not worse
20090831 23:13:02< stikonas> maybe, I do not know Wesnoth source well, so I can't say how much effort it will take
20090831 23:14:03< Chusslove> Someone had to do something clever to have text behave that way, Gettext itself has no facilities for that whatsover (I don't know of any other Gettextized app that will do on-the-fly changes).
20090831 23:15:07< stikonas> yes, KDE apps require restart, but wesnoth magic looks really nice :)
20090831 23:15:47< stikonas> but pressing change language from main menu calls only this function
20090831 23:15:59< stikonas> and some function to update preferences
20090831 23:16:34< Chusslove> I suspect it's something with this t_string class.
20090831 23:17:31< stikonas> strings_.clear() proably clears all previous translations
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20090831 23:17:41< stikonas> and the last loop fills them with new ones
20090831 23:23:24< alink> Mmmh According to help, teleport action should cost 1 MP, and not the MP cost of village tile, as it currently does. Probably a very old bug, i will fix that.
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20090831 23:25:45< alink> zookeeper: btw (even if too late), after the forum reminder, I started to try again teleport but with a simpler incremental plan, instead to begin with the big complex project never finished enough to work :-p
20090831 23:26:54< alink> i will start with WML fixed teleport (other than village) and after that, add flexibility to it
20090831 23:27:49< alink> even if that fails again, at least I think that these new idea can improve and optimize the current village teleporting :)
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20090831 23:53:46< CIA-62> fendrin * r38266 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/ (9 files): DM: Updated the endlevel tags to the new syntax.
20090831 23:54:07-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090831 23:54:55< fendrin> esr: Freed DM from depricated wml code. Is DM ready for 1.8?
20090831 23:55:43< esr> fendrin: Aside from missing art, yes, I think so.
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20090831 23:58:42< fendrin> esr: Most scenario objectives and the corresponding endlevel coding is very basic. We could try to improve that for 1.8.
--- Log closed Tue Sep 01 00:00:40 2009