--- Log opened Sun Aug 02 00:00:17 2009
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20090802 02:51:58< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090802 09:02:54< Ischaldirh> hey i don't suppose anyone here uses comcast and would be willing to do me a quick favor?
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20090802 10:45:29< Ivanovic> moin
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20090802 14:16:42< vjoe> guys
20090802 14:16:47< vjoe> oops, wrong chan, sorry
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20090802 20:01:09< kerros> are there any non-mainline campaigns that are good for beginners?
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20090802 20:09:45< Aethaeryn> kerros: Most good campaigns are mainlined these days.
20090802 20:10:00< Aethaeryn> When I joined as a newbie in 1.2, there were only 5 or 6 campaigns.
20090802 20:10:36< Aethaeryn> Now there are more than twice as much.
20090802 20:11:25< shadowmaster> when I first met Wesnoth (0.9.6), there were just HttT, TRoW, SotBE, TDH and EI
20090802 20:11:32< shadowmaster> (IIRC)
20090802 20:11:55< Aethaeryn> Yeah...
20090802 20:12:07< Aethaeryn> The biggest changes in 1.2 -> 1.4 and 1.4 -> 1.6 were the tons of new campaigns.
20090802 20:12:13< Aethaeryn> Probably in part due to Wesnoth UMC Dev.
20090802 20:12:40< shadowmaster> The Coordinated Wesnoth UMC Development Project didn't exist until around 1.4's release
20090802 20:13:11< shadowmaster> a bit later, actually. Revision 1 was on 2008-03-14
20090802 20:13:21< Aethaeryn> hmm, was mistaken then.
20090802 20:13:33< Aethaeryn> the new campaigns added in 1.6 and 1.7 were due to Wesnoth UMC Dev, though, iirc.
20090802 20:13:42< shadowmaster> 1.2 -> 1.4 added new campaigns only because esr joined the project
20090802 20:13:57< shadowmaster> and he insisted that we needed more campaigns or somethings, or so I heard.
20090802 20:14:07< Aethaeryn> Eh, nothing wrong with more campaigns.
20090802 20:14:27< shadowmaster> I wasn't implying it was a bad thing, sorry if that was misinterpreted.
20090802 20:15:00< Aethaeryn> Well, connontation of the "insisted" word gives the impression of someone demanding it against popular belief.
20090802 20:15:11< Aethaeryn> At least to me.
20090802 20:15:55< Aethaeryn> You have to love English for little things like that: where it could be right in the dictionary definition and still give the wrong impression.
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20090802 20:34:50< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: I'm sure there were some lazy devs atm who didn't like the idea at the beginning
20090802 20:34:58< shadowmaster> * must have been
20090802 20:37:01< blarumyrran> the idea of having more campaigns?
20090802 20:37:30< shadowmaster> yeah
20090802 20:37:44< blarumyrran> why would they not like that
20090802 20:37:51< shadowmaster> some translations may also have gone "awwww... more work to do?"
20090802 20:38:21 * blarumyrran didnt think having any translations was a good idea at all, until seeing french players
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20090802 20:42:04< shadowmaster> hey, I'd not have played Wesnoth a lot back then if the spanish translation wasn't decent enough
20090802 20:42:38< blarumyrran> huh, why
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20090802 20:45:44< shadowmaster> because my English grammar and vocabulary were pretty bad back then.
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20090802 20:46:16< shadowmaster> Heh, I noew remember that I took English classes the same year, shortly after playing Wesnoth 0.9.6.
20090802 20:46:20< shadowmaster> *now
20090802 20:46:26< blarumyrran> It couldnt have been bad enough to noticeably hinder playing it?
20090802 20:46:48< kerros> Aethaeryn: so there are no good user campaigns? :D
20090802 20:47:48< shadowmaster> blarumyrran: I have always been more of a storyline reader than a player
20090802 20:48:00< Aethaeryn> kerros: I wouldn't say that.
20090802 20:48:16< Aethaeryn> Invasion from the Unknown (sequal to Under the Burning Suns) is good to the point of semi-canon
20090802 20:48:27< shadowmaster> I think he was wasking for _easy_ campaigns
20090802 20:48:30< Aethaeryn> and Ooze Mini-Campaign was recently revived.
20090802 20:48:32< blarumyrran> shadowmaster, wesnoth storylines arent anything that spectacular
20090802 20:48:34< Aethaeryn> That's fairly easy, unique, and fun\
20090802 20:48:51< blarumyrran> Ooze is certainly a good one
20090802 20:49:05< blarumyrran> you should try that if anything
20090802 20:49:06< kerros> shadowmaster: yeah, I was :)
20090802 20:49:21< Aethaeryn> Can't really recommend anything else because I haven't done anything else.
20090802 20:49:41< Aethaeryn> There's some good, really unique multiplayer content (some of which can be played in single player).
20090802 20:49:53< Aethaeryn> And Imperial Era, etc., have their own campaigns.
20090802 20:50:35< kerros> mainly cause I've been on and off wesnoth over the years. I never played long and every time I start again I feel like a beginner so I start beginners campaigns. But I think I know most of the mainline campaigns until their ~6th missions
20090802 20:51:53< kerros> although I did play son of blackeye pretty far at some point
20090802 20:52:13< kerros> but maybe it was easier back then, it's rated as expert now
20090802 20:52:55< shadowmaster> blarumyrran: Your Mileage May Vary, they say.
20090802 20:52:59< shadowmaster> (re storylines)
20090802 20:53:05< blarumyrran> It May Not
20090802 20:54:57< Aethaeryn> The storylines suck, I agree.
20090802 20:55:06< Aethaeryn> That's why the campaigns I'm making are going to be done in reverse.
20090802 20:55:15< Aethaeryn> Instead of hinting at canon via dialog and having to gleam it from the campaign...
20090802 20:55:21< kerros> ur Mileage May Vary, they say.                                                                                    │ ilor
20090802 20:55:24< kerros> ar
20090802 20:55:28< Aethaeryn> I'll be putting together my own campaign's canon BEFORE storyboarding.
20090802 20:55:34< kerros> sorry, cat jumped on the middle mouse button o.O
20090802 20:55:51< blarumyrran> If you will ever get done with your campaign :P
20090802 20:56:09< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Oh, I'm close to alpha'ing Thunderstone, maybe a few weeks.
20090802 20:56:19< shadowmaster> kerros: I thought it was some funny quote from him
20090802 20:56:21< Aethaeryn> I'll get things done, just at 3 MP a turn (slower than a wose)
20090802 20:56:47< shadowmaster> he has had some good lines pruned by the OT forum
20090802 20:57:05< Aethaeryn> Thunderstone 2.0 may be years off, for instance.
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20090802 21:00:35< ilor> kerros: say hi to you cat for me ;)
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20090802 21:01:52< blarumyrran> you cat!
20090802 21:02:40< melinath> re storylines: That's why they're gonna be redone.
20090802 21:02:48< melinath> hopefully.
20090802 21:03:23< blarumyrran> Mh
20090802 21:03:35< melinath> like the art :-p
20090802 21:03:39< blarumyrran> How would you redo them without completely changing the scenarios?
20090802 21:03:52< blarumyrran> & completely redoing the art???
20090802 21:04:13< melinath> ?
20090802 21:04:28< melinath> storyline is independent of the campaign battles.
20090802 21:04:46< blarumyrran> That would be just a very weakly supported storyline then
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20090802 21:04:51< melinath> ...
20090802 21:04:58< blarumyrran> ,,,
20090802 21:04:58< melinath> not necessarily.
20090802 21:05:26< melinath> Storyline is always completely independent of the campaign battles.
20090802 21:05:34< blarumyrran> what.
20090802 21:05:42< melinath> Whether it's a good storyline or not is a different question.
20090802 21:05:53< melinath> Clarification: dialogue.
20090802 21:06:04< melinath> And fluff.
20090802 21:06:40< melinath> There are an infinite number of different reasons that loyalists could fight orcs.
20090802 21:06:59< blarumyrran> How would you have a completely different plot by changing the dialogue to make eg different people give each other completely different objectives, without changing the... actual objectives of the scenario?
20090802 21:07:22< melinath> And there's an infinite number of reasons that fight could be followed by a fight with saurians.
20090802 21:07:38< blarumyrran> it would in almost all those reasons feel very random
20090802 21:07:54< blarumyrran> such random battles that arent very strongly connected to plot is certainly a bad thing
20090802 21:07:58< melinath> Of course.
20090802 21:08:54< melinath> The point is that, theoretically, the campaign objectives can be explained by a multitude of different dialogues.
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20090802 21:09:39< melinath> This is why it's possible to rewrite dialogue.
20090802 21:09:48< melinath> Without changing campaign objectives.
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20090802 21:10:17< melinath> This is in no way a suggestion that the dialogue should be changed to just anything.
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20090802 21:33:56< blarumyrran> Well
20090802 21:34:23< blarumyrran> melinath, give me an example of a current mainline plot that could be drastically improved that way
20090802 21:36:10< melinath> balrumyrran: I didn't say that a mainline plot could be drastically improved that way.
20090802 21:37:03< melinath> balrumyrran: what's your least favorite storyline?
20090802 21:37:09< blarumyrran> 22:02] <melinath> re storylines: That's why they're gonna be redone. [...] [22:04] <melinath> storyline is independent of the campaign battles.   -   i thought you meant exactly that
20090802 21:37:43< melinath> storyline != plot
20090802 21:37:51< blarumyrran> uh
20090802 21:38:00< blarumyrran> Explain.
20090802 21:38:07< melinath> in my mind, anyways.
20090802 21:38:31< blarumyrran> i thought they were very close to synonymous
20090802 21:38:34< melinath> I may be weaseling a bit, but storyline feels more detailed to me than plot.
20090802 21:39:31< melinath> plot I would say is more "They defeat this enemy, they defeat that enemy, then they defeat that enemy"
20090802 21:39:42< melinath> Whereas storyline would include the reasons.
20090802 21:40:09< melinath> roughly speaking.
20090802 21:40:16< blarumyrran> I dont think anyone would mean something like that as plot, but then again im not native english either
20090802 21:40:52< melinath> hmm. Perhaps I should have said that the story could be drastically improved.
20090802 21:41:40< blarumyrran> ... and is "story" storyline or plot then?
20090802 21:43:48< blarumyrran> (& as of least favorite im not sure, elvish incursion maybe)
20090802 21:44:32< Aethaeryn> Eh... How about this.
20090802 21:44:41< Aethaeryn> The background vs. the substance
20090802 21:44:56< Aethaeryn> Background as in dialog and the between-scenario text.
20090802 21:45:07< Aethaeryn> Substance as in the actual objectives and scenario events.
20090802 21:45:28< melinath> Thanks, Aethaeryn. That's much better said.
20090802 21:45:38< blarumyrran> Delfador's memoirs had so bad dialogue it was kind of funny
20090802 21:45:55< melinath> Delfador's Memoirs is a lot better than TRoW.
20090802 21:46:05< blarumyrran> uh, iirc trow was one of the best story-wise
20090802 21:46:15< blarumyrran> apart from the nonsensical last level
20090802 21:46:42< melinath> the story is very good
20090802 21:46:48< blarumyrran> I dont really remember trow dialogue, ill check
20090802 21:47:05< melinath> the dialogue is actually pretty funny in some points, but it's extremely modern.
20090802 21:47:08< Aethaeryn> I liked Liberty.
20090802 21:47:11< Aethaeryn> And Sceptre of Fire.
20090802 21:47:25< melinath> and there are some very odd inconsistencies....
20090802 21:47:31< Aethaeryn> Maybe their length, thus making them definitely finishable, works.
20090802 21:47:55< blarumyrran> Liberty had very fun level design, the story is not spectacular but being more fun than most if not all other campaigns hides that
20090802 21:48:04< Aethaeryn> That's why my Thunderstone campaign is going to really be three smaller independent campaigns with different story plots with an overarching story arch
20090802 21:48:18< melinath> I recall being disappointed by the 'everyone dies' bit at the end of the scepter of fire...
20090802 21:48:32< blarumyrran> i recall abusing a massive bug at the end of sof :P
20090802 21:48:33< Aethaeryn> I also liked Descent into Darkness... maybe because it's fun to do some of the things... like WC spam or be a lich.
20090802 21:48:36< melinath> er... retroactive spoiler warning.
20090802 21:49:04< Aethaeryn> melinath: I don't know... I kind of liked it. VERY different than most "happily ever after, and a marriage" cheeriness.
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20090802 21:49:35< Aethaeryn> DiD and SoF being tragedies added 10x dimension to their plot, even if they're merely on par with the other campaigns in story.
20090802 21:49:35< blarumyrran> i didnt like sof's ending very much either,
20090802 21:49:42< blarumyrran> the speaking griffon was SO SILLY
20090802 21:49:59< shadowmaster> c'mon, is there anything you like?
20090802 21:50:08< blarumyrran> just hanging a message of their deeds by griffin's neck wouldve been.. stretching it, but still better imo
20090802 21:50:08< Aethaeryn> Yeah, the griffon = that annoying guy you want to kill but is on your team.
20090802 21:50:10< melinath> Except that the scenario tricked me into thinking I could save them :-p
20090802 21:50:12< blarumyrran> shadowmaster, yes!
20090802 21:50:21< Aethaeryn> it's been a staple in video games since Duck Hunt
20090802 21:50:40< blarumyrran> mhm, i totally hated the griffin
20090802 21:50:50< Aethaeryn> The weak part of the plot is the twist: the griffon as the narrator
20090802 21:51:06< Aethaeryn> SPOILER: Damn, the one guy you want to die is the one guy who lives.
20090802 21:51:08< shadowmaster> the griffon wtf?!
20090802 21:51:18< Aethaeryn> That's the equivilent of Pikachu being the only one who lives a bloody Pokemon massicre.
20090802 21:51:22< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: is that like Jar Jar Binks?
20090802 21:51:30< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Yes. In that it speaks awfully.
20090802 21:51:34< Aethaeryn> Sceptre of Fire.
20090802 21:51:48< blarumyrran> i liked jar jar when i saw the movie when i was less than 10 years old
20090802 21:51:53< shadowmaster> I translated that clown to spanish.
20090802 21:51:58< shadowmaster> (Krawg)
20090802 21:52:03< blarumyrran> Saw it again lately, and hate him like most now
20090802 21:52:13< Aethaeryn> melinath: the ending wasn't perfect in SoF, but I enjoyed the last few scenarios in the volcano.
20090802 21:52:15< shadowmaster> blarumyrran: huh, same.
20090802 21:52:22< shadowmaster> no idea why
20090802 21:52:42< Aethaeryn> Never cared for a small group more, especially in the old version (earlyish 1.3?) where you couldn't recruit in the cave at all
20090802 21:53:35< Aethaeryn> SoF was a fun campaign
20090802 21:53:44< blarumyrran> when i played sof, the ai was totally screwed in the last level
20090802 21:53:50< Aethaeryn> NR was fun until about half way through where I quit, screaming "NOT AGAIN" to a really huge outdoors level
20090802 21:53:53< blarumyrran> but yep SoF was very fun apart from the griff
20090802 21:54:21< Aethaeryn> I really need to play UtBS again
20090802 21:54:25< Aethaeryn> iirc, I couldn't get to the very end.
20090802 21:54:37< shadowmaster> ohhh... UtBS... brings back memories...
20090802 21:54:41< Aethaeryn> Like I got in one of those poor performance sections where i'd have to considerably redo a large chunk of the campaign.
20090802 21:54:45< shadowmaster> I liked it better when it was UMC, though.
20090802 21:54:47< Aethaeryn> And I decided not to.
20090802 21:55:21< blarumyrran> NR is total crap; killing _100_ghouls WHO SUDDENLY APPEAR IN THE SWAMPS is not really a challenge with dwarves on my side, but it just drains my lifetime and will to live like a drainblade
20090802 21:55:44< shadowmaster> what about being cornered by 1000 orcs?
20090802 21:55:49< Aethaeryn> I didn't find THOT fun either.
20090802 21:55:51< blarumyrran> was there such level too?
20090802 21:55:52< shadowmaster> oops, an extra zero
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20090802 21:56:05< Aethaeryn> But I played it so early in its life, that it's probably a different campaign by now
20090802 21:56:13< Aethaeryn> early 1.5
20090802 21:56:40 * blarumyrran cheated through most of utbs to see what the story is about >_>
20090802 21:56:44< Aethaeryn> imo, Dwarves, humans, and elves should be barred from starring in any future mainline campaigns.
20090802 21:56:51 * Aethaeryn glances at shadowmaster 
20090802 21:56:54< Aethaeryn> Alright, all but one.
20090802 21:57:02< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: elves too.
20090802 21:57:08< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: elves are in my list :P
20090802 21:57:19< shadowmaster> there's a reason why in AtS you cannot recruit elves.
20090802 21:57:22< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, im not sure if you are joking or not
20090802 21:57:32< Aethaeryn> But dwarves are the new humans, and elves are cliche too.
20090802 21:57:52< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: No. DiD and and SotBE are partially fun because they're different.
20090802 21:57:54< shadowmaster> I grew up so TIRED of the idiots with IftU that I now think I should have made it a human campaign instead
20090802 21:58:01< Aethaeryn> Next time someone makes mainline, they REALLY need to consider Drakes.
20090802 21:58:17< blarumyrran> Humans are very atmospheric imo
20090802 21:58:27< blarumyrran> Drakes just.. dont feel atmospheric for me somehow
20090802 21:58:33< Aethaeryn> eh...
20090802 21:58:38< blarumyrran> while saurians do. go figure.
20090802 21:58:38< shadowmaster> vanilla undead ftw
20090802 21:58:55< Aethaeryn> It's just that you need to AT LEAST make a new group of humans, elves, or dwarves
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20090802 21:59:06< Aethaeryn> Like Liberty being outlaws or UtBS being desert.
20090802 21:59:27< Aethaeryn> The saaaaaame old humans/elves/dwarves fight teh bad guys is in danger of becoming Wesnoth mainline cliche
20090802 22:00:09< Aethaeryn> A campaign should either (1) make new enemies or (2) make new heroes (or both)
20090802 22:00:10< blarumyrran> Why, i thought of a really awesome human storyline, the protagonist being kind of like macbeth
20090802 22:00:34< blarumyrran> but dropped it preemptively before having wasted time to a project ill never bother finishing :)
20090802 22:00:35< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: but it is a very commn issue that not many people have the artistic skills for 1 or 2
20090802 22:00:37< melinath> Wasn't there a drake UMC campaign at some point?
20090802 22:00:43< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: by humans I meant loys, by elves I meant vanilla elves....
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20090802 22:00:51< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what is wrong with loys
20090802 22:00:52< melinath> It would be great to revive that now that there's good art for them (finally)
20090802 22:00:54< shadowmaster> and some people just don't like placeholders.
20090802 22:01:02< Aethaeryn> melinath: yes, but it's so NON-canon it's laughable.
20090802 22:01:07< melinath> ah
20090802 22:01:10< melinath> *sigh*
20090802 22:01:12< blarumyrran> I used to hate humans when i was smaller, now i like them somewhat
20090802 22:01:26< Aethaeryn> If someone reaaaaaaly wanted a Drake campaign to be mainline, I would temporarily give up work on Thunderstone to make a proper Drake campaign however long it takes.
20090802 22:01:36< Aethaeryn> Just to *not* have Flight to Freedom be mainline.
20090802 22:01:45< Aethaeryn> Drakes = favorite faction. That campaign = not doing it justice.
20090802 22:02:32< blarumyrran> I havent really tried flight-to-freedom
20090802 22:02:43< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran, shadowmaster: It's just that they aren't very creative... I'm sure you can put the same ol' units in creative situations with real stories...
20090802 22:02:51< Aethaeryn> (going back ot the humans)
20090802 22:02:58< melinath> I think it would be great to have a mainline drake campaign. But... not right now. There's enough work to do figuring out just what canon is without adding to the mess...
20090802 22:03:35< Aethaeryn> melinath: and that's my problem and why I scrapped my idea to make a Drake campaign... two or three times.
20090802 22:03:49< Aethaeryn> The fear that by the time I finish, there'll be both new art and new backstory and the effort on the campaign would be to waste.
20090802 22:04:58< melinath> The new drake descs will be finished by the end of August.
20090802 22:05:20< melinath> Not sure when the lore collection will be complete.... but there isn't much on drakes out there, anyway.
20090802 22:05:26< Aethaeryn> melinath: And by the end of August, Thunderstone alpha will probably be approaching release if it isn't out.
20090802 22:05:27< blarumyrran> What are the drake clasher lines called now?
20090802 22:05:40< Aethaeryn> And by then, no time for Drake campaign, and by the time I have time, someone else will get to it :P
20090802 22:05:56< melinath> arbiter->warden, slasher->enforcer
20090802 22:06:10< blarumyrran> k
20090802 22:06:30< melinath> Aethaeryn: ah... oh, well.
20090802 22:08:29< Aethaeryn> melinath: Besides, with Thunderstone I only need to worry about its prehistory lining up with sequels to IftU
20090802 22:10:42< melinath> Is IftU meant to stay UMC?
20090802 22:11:01< shadowmaster> melinath: no idea.
20090802 22:11:14< Aethaeryn> I'd hope it gets mainlined.
20090802 22:11:38< Aethaeryn> If IftU gets mainlined, then Thunderstone could have the semi-canon status that IftU currently has for following UtBS
20090802 22:11:44< shadowmaster> It has received both positive and negative opinions from different mainline developers
20090802 22:11:45< blarumyrran> Im strongly against fantasy settings getting scifi stuff like that, so i cant agree >:o)
20090802 22:11:50< shadowmaster> one of them, ironically, is me.
20090802 22:11:51< melinath> I really like it, but the ancient civilization doesn't really fit
20090802 22:12:01< shadowmaster> *the negative opinion sources
20090802 22:12:17< shadowmaster> melinath: yeah, pretty much. I wanted to remove most references to it.
20090802 22:12:31< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Orcs. With chainsaws. Made of electricity.
20090802 22:12:44< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what about them
20090802 22:12:46< melinath> shadowmaster: you wanted to, but...?
20090802 22:12:59< Aethaeryn> The strongest argument for sci fi/fantasy hybrid :P
20090802 22:13:28< Aethaeryn> Tbh, I've never read or written that hybrid genre before. I have written a full-length, unpublished sci fi short story which i'll never show to anyone. :P
20090802 22:13:32< shadowmaster> melinath: there are a few that I cannot remove (shaxthal backstory). The references in The Library... they should have been removed in the last release (yesterday, 1.14.0) but I forgot to do it.
20090802 22:13:36< shadowmaster> :P
20090802 22:13:46< Aethaeryn> acctually, not short story...
20090802 22:13:49< blarumyrran> I have nothing against scifi-fantasy hybrids that are always also consciously scifi, like Dune & Warhammer; but 90% fantasy worlds with 10% scifi, like wesnoth would be with iftu mainlined, i really dont like that
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20090802 22:13:56< Aethaeryn> does 53,000ish words count as short novel?
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20090802 22:14:26< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Thunderstone isn't 90% fantasy.
20090802 22:14:33< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: he said IftU.
20090802 22:14:42< Aethaeryn> Technology has supplanted magic in most cases.
20090802 22:14:46< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, Wesnoth setting as a whole
20090802 22:14:47< shadowmaster> or actually, mainline+IftU
20090802 22:14:55< blarumyrran> yep
20090802 22:15:27< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: I'm still open to pulling an Imperial Era if things don't work out setting it in Wesnoth's future.
20090802 22:15:36< Aethaeryn> IE was originally intended to be a prequel to TRoW set on the Old Continent.
20090802 22:15:42< Aethaeryn> Thus roman-esque units.
20090802 22:15:46 * blarumyrran never knew that
20090802 22:15:54< melinath> ah, that explains a lot
20090802 22:15:59< Aethaeryn> Orcs were the slaves, and unleashing would've been its catastrophe, etc.
20090802 22:16:09< Aethaeryn> They were against a few policies, such as NRIW, and wanted more control over their story.
20090802 22:16:21< Aethaeryn> Thus why they far later on decided to add more eras to IE.
20090802 22:16:34< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: yeah, I remember IE back then
20090802 22:16:42< Aethaeryn> Since I'm modelling my era's strategy more off of IE than "that's cool let's throw it in" eras...
20090802 22:16:42< blarumyrran> i have a lot of sympathy for ie
20090802 22:16:45< shadowmaster> then they went Orbivm
20090802 22:16:51< Aethaeryn> I may split off Thunderstone into its own world.
20090802 22:17:08< Aethaeryn> But I'd rather not unless I have to.
20090802 22:17:17< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: huh.
20090802 22:17:28< blarumyrran> I once posted on orbivm forums promising to make them roman village sprites, if they included giant mushrooms as a faction
20090802 22:17:34< blarumyrran> They refused.
20090802 22:17:35< Aethaeryn> XD
20090802 22:17:37< Aethaeryn> damn
20090802 22:17:39< shadowmaster> I haven't thought yet what'd happen if wesnoth-umc-dev got an Orbivm.
20090802 22:18:01< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Obviously if Thunderstone went into its own world it would only happen if IftU did as well.
20090802 22:18:02< blarumyrran> i suspect orbivm is dying now that turin is less about?
20090802 22:18:03< shadowmaster> I guess we'd end up forcing you to get out of our repo... :P (partially kidding)
20090802 22:18:29< Aethaeryn> Unless, of course, Thunderstone gets incredibly massive on its own and gets its own forums and repo
20090802 22:18:43< shadowmaster> I don't see that happening before 2018
20090802 22:18:54< Aethaeryn> And since the world ends in 2012, it's not going to happen
20090802 22:19:03< shadowmaster> yeah, pretty much
20090802 22:19:05< Aethaeryn> You always have to plan long term projects like that.
20090802 22:19:15< Aethaeryn> If it'd happen after 2012 don't bother.
20090802 22:19:24< Aethaeryn> Want to go to med school? If you'd graduate after 2012, don't bother.
20090802 22:19:31< shadowmaster> ...
20090802 22:19:31 * blarumyrran sees Aethaeryn half-senile, head-in-jar supported by futu medicine devices, in year 2100 completing thuderstone
20090802 22:19:44< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: joking obviously.
20090802 22:20:04< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Yes, Thunderstone will finally reach the state of fork of Wesnoth... long after anyone knows what Wesnoth is.
20090802 22:20:05< blarumyrran> damn
20090802 22:20:18< blarumyrran> id be getting out of army right when the world ends
20090802 22:20:24< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: we could not support a whole fork either.
20090802 22:20:31< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: obviously.
20090802 22:20:48< Aethaeryn> It's wesnoth-umc-dev
20090802 22:20:53< Aethaeryn> not thunderstone-core-and-umc-dev
20090802 22:20:54< Bob_The_Mighty> A small comment from my experience of Galactic Empires: not many Wesnoth people seem very taken with the sci-fi genre as a whole (though, of course, they might just not llike my add-on) :)   
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20090802 22:21:00< Bob_The_Mighty> then again spacenoth died
20090802 22:21:06< shadowmaster> but you have two admin devs and one half-admin dev, we can extend the engine as wesnoth-umc-dev requires, Aethaeryn 
20090802 22:21:16< Aethaeryn> Bob_The_Mighty: From experience, an add-on depends on one person.
20090802 22:21:37< shadowmaster> in fact, we've done so already.
20090802 22:21:39< Aethaeryn> Tbh, I won't be bothered if Thunderstone only has 12 downloads.
20090802 22:21:51< Aethaeryn> I'll make it for myself for my own use.
20090802 22:21:59< Aethaeryn> Other people using it is merely a plus.
20090802 22:22:18< shadowmaster> sounds like me and IftU at the beginning.
20090802 22:22:26< Aethaeryn> And having a Shaxthal faction and an IftU download guarantees at least 2 players ;)
20090802 22:22:31< Aethaeryn> IftU backstory
20090802 22:22:36< Aethaeryn> how I got download from backstory I don't know.
20090802 22:22:50< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, frankly that PK's Modern Combat seems similar, but more interesting than your thunderstone
20090802 22:22:58< blarumyrran> as an mp era
20090802 22:23:19< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Nah, his is more like Axis and Allies the board game (don't compare his game to RISK, Blueblaze's is RISK).
20090802 22:23:42< Aethaeryn> If I made an MP for Thunderstone it would be more like Bob_The_Mighty's High Seas... in space.
20090802 22:23:43< blarumyrran> i didnt!
20090802 22:23:49< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: just preemptive
20090802 22:24:10< blarumyrran> last i saw, you were carefullt arranging factions
20090802 22:24:14< blarumyrran> y*
20090802 22:24:17< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: but I accept the analogy a bit, I'm going to use his stealth fighter sprite as a placeholder for the human fighter (I asked him first)
20090802 22:24:25< blarumyrran> you wouldnt need that for a high-seas-like-thing
20090802 22:24:26< Aethaeryn> Wrong size and perspective, but almost exactly the look I'm going for.
20090802 22:24:35< Stealth> :/
20090802 22:24:40< blarumyrran> :\
20090802 22:24:49< Aethaeryn> Stealth: sorry for pinging you
20090802 22:24:59< blarumyrran> why did you ping him
20090802 22:25:11< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: I said "stealth fighter sprite"
20090802 22:25:18< Aethaeryn> There you go, made me ping him three times XD
20090802 22:25:36< blarumyrran> i dont think many call that pinging.
20090802 22:25:39< Aethaeryn> eh
20090802 22:25:53< Aethaeryn> poking
20090802 22:25:54< Aethaeryn> whatever
20090802 22:26:00< blarumyrran> i dont think many call that pinging.
20090802 22:26:03< blarumyrran> damn
20090802 22:26:11< blarumyrran> hit enter accidentally
20090802 22:26:24< blarumyrran> Cannot blame a cat like some others, either
20090802 22:27:07< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: anyway, Thunderstone has several elements.
20090802 22:27:13< Aethaeryn> One is a Default-like era.k
20090802 22:27:27< Aethaeryn> Can't blame that on a cat either ;)
20090802 22:27:42< Aethaeryn> I just think a Default era is a good core. Mostly for campaign stuff.
20090802 22:28:18< Aethaeryn> < Bob_The_Mighty> then again spacenoth died <- just reread this comment. I must resort to saying TINS.
20090802 22:28:33< Aethaeryn> Thunderstone Is Not Spacenoth. I know you didn't compare it directly per se, but I like saying TINS.
20090802 22:28:54< Aethaeryn> Spacenoth died because it relied on one person and one person couldn't do all the work (art, etc.)
20090802 22:28:55< blarumyrran> WWTINSD
20090802 22:29:14< Aethaeryn> I'm doing the sprites, code, etc., everything (although the sprites are definitely nowhere near final right now)
20090802 22:29:36< Aethaeryn> Anyway, bbl
20090802 22:29:39< Aethaeryn> g2g for a few hours
20090802 22:30:36< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: who was that?
20090802 22:30:49< blarumyrran> the-guy-who-made-all-the-ships, i assume
20090802 22:31:04< shadowmaster> um.
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20090802 22:31:20< blarumyrran> had an avatar of a dog in a spaceship iirc
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20090802 22:31:33< shadowmaster> to me it seemed that people just didn't care.
20090802 22:32:00< shadowmaster> (let's be honest, you-know-what-addon-mentioned-above may suffer the same) :P
20090802 22:32:06< Bob_The_Mighty> shadowmaster: do you mind if i crib some IftU units for my rpg pack?
20090802 22:32:13< shadowmaster> Bob_The_Mighty: which units?
20090802 22:32:28< Bob_The_Mighty> crow, death baron, bone rider, etc
20090802 22:33:08< shadowmaster> um, yes, it's okay.
20090802 22:34:29< Bob_The_Mighty> okay,  just looked, i'd like to use the eyestalk, elf civilian and hunter as well
20090802 22:35:10< Bob_The_Mighty> Is it the character units that you would be more reluctant about?
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20090802 22:35:15< shadowmaster> yeah.
20090802 22:35:36< Bob_The_Mighty> that's understandable
20090802 22:35:42< shadowmaster> those you mentioned are okay. The eyestalk is from a mainline campaign, The South Guard. Art by zook_eeper
20090802 22:35:53< blarumyrran> Uh, i thought it was from neo
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20090802 22:36:04< shadowmaster> it's frankenstein of neo's art
20090802 22:36:07< Bob_The_Mighty> is the wose sapling is from a campaign?
20090802 22:36:07< blarumyrran> k
20090802 22:36:17< blarumyrran> trow has sapling
20090802 22:36:59< Bob_The_Mighty> to be honest, i first started grabbing units from  BEEM and Ageless era because they have so many... but now i cannot tell where they came from or who made them
20090802 22:37:18< Bob_The_Mighty> I hope people will not be cross
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20090802 22:38:42< melinath> Bob_The_Mighty: I have the same problem... I should probably just put a general thanks in my about section or something.
20090802 22:39:31< shadowmaster> IftU's credits are way too big.
20090802 22:40:18< blarumyrran> am i on them? :o
20090802 22:40:31< shadowmaster> yes, I think so
20090802 22:40:55< shadowmaster> yeah, you are. Under your former identity. Congratulations, Mr. Ghost.
20090802 22:41:14< blarumyrran> and there was much rejoicing.
20090802 22:41:36< Bob_The_Mighty> blarumyrran: do you mind if i also include some giant mushrooms?
20090802 22:41:44< blarumyrran> no
20090802 22:41:59< shadowmaster> he'll be satisfied
20090802 22:42:04< blarumyrran> I am actually making a new mushroom at this moment
20090802 22:42:09< Bob_The_Mighty> i have found 2 sprites, and 2 recolours, is there more?
20090802 22:42:15< Bob_The_Mighty> lol
20090802 22:42:16< blarumyrran> 3 sprites
20090802 22:42:27< blarumyrran> a small blue, a medium purple, a bigger-than-hex brown
20090802 22:42:38 * shadowmaster tried to put a giant mushroom but he couldn't come up with a good plot-based excuse for it :/
20090802 22:42:56< blarumyrran> Shaxtals are actually mushrooms, who can shapeshift
20090802 22:43:39< shadowmaster> heh
20090802 22:44:25< Bob_The_Mighty> ah, yes, i have them all - i will find a way to add them
20090802 22:44:43-!- VurtualRuler98 [n=yeahrigh@74.206.62.26] has joined #wesnoth
20090802 22:45:43< Bob_The_Mighty> i was thinking of giving them a reproductive ability which could potentially allow them to take over the map - if the players don't cut them down in time, ever thought of making a spore-rlease animation for them?
20090802 22:46:01< blarumyrran> I dont like doing any animations
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20090802 22:46:38< blarumyrran> Eg zookeeper made the animations for the trow campire sprite replacement i made
20090802 22:46:46< VurtualRuler98> Wait, map-flooding units? This is a conversation I don't want to be in, but feel like I have to.
20090802 22:46:49< blarumyrran> vampire*
20090802 22:48:25< Bob_The_Mighty> the big bron mushroom would have a 10% chance every turn to spawn a small blue mushroom every turn (the small one eventually grows in to big one)
20090802 22:49:26< blarumyrran> sounds good
20090802 22:50:38< VurtualRuler98> Ignoring that someone, somewhere, won't be able to run a map with that....
20090802 22:51:13< VurtualRuler98> You'd be better off making it try to block off passages.
20090802 22:51:30< blarumyrran> (http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=58089 - the one im making atm)
20090802 22:52:05< Bob_The_Mighty> that is weird
20090802 22:52:57< Bob_The_Mighty> looks a bit like a organic whale-spaceship has landed on a tree :)
20090802 22:53:38< blarumyrran> all mushrooms are actually organic whale-spaceships
20090802 22:53:45< blarumyrran> When the time comes, they will rise
20090802 22:54:00< blarumyrran> This would make a great campaign
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20090802 22:56:33< Aethaeryn> Bob_The_Mighty: would the mushroom be A New Land, Galactic Empires, or RPG?
20090802 22:56:44< Aethaeryn> It would even fit The High Seas, kinda. :P
20090802 22:56:46< Bob_The_Mighty> rpg
20090802 22:57:04< Bob_The_Mighty> actually, one of the mushrooms is already used in Galactic Empires, i forgot about that
20090802 22:57:15< Aethaeryn> I remembered
20090802 22:57:32< Aethaeryn> thus why I added it to my questino
20090802 22:57:33< Aethaeryn> *question
20090802 22:58:15< VurtualRuler98> That...tree thing
20090802 22:58:57< VurtualRuler98> It looks like anti-samus crash-landed on a wose zombie, then someone redrew it for a penumbra monster.
20090802 22:59:16< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: you didn't go away for a few hours.
20090802 22:59:26< shadowmaster> it's been less than 45 minutes
20090802 22:59:34< Bob_The_Mighty> lol
20090802 22:59:37< blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, i can never trust you again now
20090802 22:59:58< VurtualRuler98> I wouldn't be surprised at all if that tree thing shot a tongue out of its eye and strangled enemies.
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20090802 23:00:49< Bob_The_Mighty> blarumyrran: you might be interested to know that in GE your mid-sized shroom is a fundamental stepping stone to developing genetic research
20090802 23:01:15< blarumyrran> I have seen that
20090802 23:02:27< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I only read the entire chat log because *someone* hilighted my name
20090802 23:02:28< blarumyrran> if there would be a need for a scenery-style giant mushroom, id totally draw that
20090802 23:02:39< Aethaeryn> just finished my shower and am *about* to go outside.
20090802 23:02:42< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn, yes you do the same with me, Aethaeryn  :P
20090802 23:07:34< Aethaeryn> bbl for real
20090802 23:11:40< VurtualRuler98> ctrl+f
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20090802 23:51:42< blarumyrran> & Bob_The_Mighty, if you want the new shroom too, http://imagebin.org/58098
20090802 23:54:22< shadowmaster> oh crap.
20090802 23:54:38< shadowmaster> I used the "host a network game" option. Bye, sound system.
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 03 00:00:26 2009