--- Log opened Wed Aug 12 00:00:34 2009
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20090812 00:11:28< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: do you know how to damage a unit via WML?
20090812 00:12:06< thespaceinvader> Aethaeryn: you compile all the WML in the game into a big book and hit it with it?
20090812 00:12:09< thespaceinvader> :P
20090812 00:12:34< Aethaeryn> I want to hurt a unit a certain number...
20090812 00:12:56< Aethaeryn> Can't figure out the WML way of doing it though
20090812 00:14:12< Blueblaze> store a unit and reduce its hps by that number
20090812 00:14:25< Blueblaze> and when you unstore it, you can make a red floating label with that number as well
20090812 00:15:59< Aethaeryn> Problem... It's not just a one-time only thing, and they wouldn't necessarily have full health.
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20090812 00:16:13< Aethaeryn> For instance, they could have 40/55 health, and then lose 15.
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20090812 00:16:17< Blueblaze> and?
20090812 00:16:22< Blueblaze> what's the problem
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20090812 00:19:09< ancestral> Aethaeryn: What about an invisible unit hurting him/her?
20090812 00:19:18< Blueblaze> no
20090812 00:19:20< Blueblaze> no
20090812 00:19:21< Blueblaze> no
20090812 00:19:31< ancestral> You like that word, don't you?
20090812 00:20:10< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: I was just wondering if there was an increadibly easy and non-hack-ish macro that did something like "{DAMAGE_UNIT 8}
20090812 00:20:16< Blueblaze> Store the unit to foovar using [store_unit]. Modify foovar using {VARIABLE_OP foovar.hitpoints add -15}. [if] check to see if foovar.hitpoints is equal to or less than 0. If yes, then kill the unit. If no, do nothing. Unstore unit with a floating label with the message "15" at the color red.
20090812 00:20:48< Blueblaze> -^ is incredibly easy and there is probably a macro that does that too
20090812 00:20:59< Blueblaze> you should try checking in the macro folder ;p
20090812 00:21:24< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: I checked http://www.wesnoth.org/macro-reference.xhtml
20090812 00:22:03< Blueblaze> k
20090812 00:22:05< Blueblaze> no macro
20090812 00:22:10< Blueblaze> Then, make the code yourself
20090812 00:22:16< Blueblaze> It is very simple, just do exactly what I listed above
20090812 00:22:23< Blueblaze> and be sure to clear foovar at the end of it
20090812 00:22:31< ancestral> Blueblaze is right. Create a macro doing what he said
20090812 00:23:22< ancestral> FLOATING_TEXT FILTER COLOUR TEXT
20090812 00:23:31< Blueblaze> don't use that either
20090812 00:23:50< Blueblaze> [unstore_unit] allows you to do that already
20090812 00:23:59< Blueblaze> floating_text just simply stores a unit, unstores it again
20090812 00:24:20< Blueblaze> If you're damaging the unit, then you can make a floating text label during that process in the [unstore_unit] tag
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20090812 00:26:43< Aethaeryn> hrmmm
20090812 00:37:34< shadowmaster> jensp: do you still have problems?
20090812 00:39:17< jensp> shadowmaster: yep (playing right now, so didn't right a email yet)
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20090812 00:44:32< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: actually, I found the perfect lines-saving solution...
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20090812 00:46:29< Aethaeryn> maybe
20090812 00:46:38< shadowmaster> jensp: try now
20090812 00:47:11< jensp> You have exceeded the maximum number of registration attempts for this session. Please try again later.
20090812 00:47:46< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: the method I gave you only takes like 50ish lines
20090812 00:47:48< Blueblaze> or less
20090812 00:48:12< shadowmaster> jensp: again.
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20090812 00:49:47< jensp> shadowmaster: thanks, that was much easier to read
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20090812 00:51:31< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: the [effect] tag is much, *much* less lines...
20090812 00:51:40< Aethaeryn> I just need to figure out how to use it.
20090812 00:52:00< Blueblaze> actually it isn't
20090812 00:52:01< Aethaeryn> Just putting [effect] in [command] does not work
20090812 00:52:12< Blueblaze> Because to make a red floating label, you still have to store a unit and unstore it
20090812 00:53:14< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: [object] and [trait] use [effect]
20090812 00:53:26< shadowmaster> read the wiki you administer
20090812 00:55:53< Blueblaze> [object] silent=yes filterblah [effect]
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20090812 00:58:08< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: wiki *moderator* - it was a typo or something when I said administrator. administrators update the software, etc.
20090812 00:58:34< Aethaeryn> also, I mostly maintain the non-WML pages... the WML documentation confuses me as much as everyone else.
20090812 00:58:35< shadowmaster> read the wiki you moderate and reformat (hey, it's still ironinc! ^^)
20090812 00:58:39< shadowmaster> *ironic
20090812 00:58:45< Aethaeryn> I read the page for [effect] and it doesn't say anything about its use
20090812 00:58:48< Aethaeryn> which is why I had to use IRC :P
20090812 01:00:24< shadowmaster> it's ironic that such bad documentation still exists!
20090812 01:01:10< Aethaeryn> I'd assume wiki moderator zookeeper maintains the WML pages more than I do.
20090812 01:01:16< shadowmaster> no.
20090812 01:01:17< Aethaeryn> considering he's a WML wizard or whatever
20090812 01:01:38< shadowmaster> any developer introducing or changing a feature is responsilble for editing the wiki accordingly
20090812 01:01:53< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: mwahahahahaha, thank you.
20090812 01:02:07< shadowmaster> and believe it or not, zoo doesn't introduce or change WML engine features.
20090812 01:04:19< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: [object] worked
20090812 01:05:24< Aethaeryn> Does it in 11 lines instead of 50
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20090812 01:05:38< Aethaeryn> I'm very much a minimalist: to me, the shortest solution is the best.
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20090812 01:07:02< Aethaeryn> Besides, I admit I'm the WML anti-wizard
20090812 01:07:11< Aethaeryn> the WML Neutral Inept.
20090812 01:07:19< shadowmaster> I believe I suggested a better new title for you some days ago.
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20090812 01:07:33< Aethaeryn> If it's short, I'll actually understand it. I like to actually understand it.
20090812 01:07:41< shadowmaster> um, but I forgot what it was.
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20090812 01:12:12< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: I hope you don't mind if I copied the basically two lines from your Zombie code...
20090812 01:12:20< Aethaeryn> The part that gives an image and name of a unit from the summoner.
20090812 01:12:40< Aethaeryn> I'll credit you when the campaign gets published if you really want.
20090812 01:19:06< Blueblaze> sure
20090812 01:19:18< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: one last part I need to get working, now that I got the [object] damage.
20090812 01:19:31< Aethaeryn> I need to display an error and not recruit if you don't have enough HP.
20090812 01:20:05< Aethaeryn> You need at least 1+<recruit amount> HP for the unit, for example 21 HP for ghost (to make it simple, gold recruit = HP recruit)
20090812 01:21:26< Blueblaze> [store_unit] filter stuff, variable=foovar, kill=no [/store_unit] [if] foovar.hitpoints=3 [then] enable recruitment [/then] [else] insufficent hitpoitns message [/else] [/if] {CLEAR_VARIABLE foovar}
20090812 01:22:28< Aethaeryn> hmmm.... ok.
20090812 01:22:34< Aethaeryn> I really need to eat dinner...
20090812 01:22:44< Aethaeryn> So I can concentrate on understanding that.
20090812 01:22:45< shadowmaster> I really need to buy food for making dinner.
20090812 01:23:02< Aethaeryn> I just said "screw this thinking/preparation thing" and ordered pizza today.
20090812 01:24:13< Blueblaze> shadowmaster: I really need to get some money to buy food for making dinner
20090812 01:25:04< shadowmaster> thenow that's awfuol
20090812 01:25:11< shadowmaster> *now that's awful
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20090812 01:36:11< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: Do I have to store unit each time... or only store it once?
20090812 01:36:21< Aethaeryn> like only [store_unit] at the very beginning of the scenario
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20090812 01:36:44< Blueblaze> each time unless the unit never moves to a different location and it is always the same unit
20090812 01:37:01< Blueblaze> basically, yes you have to store it each time ;p
20090812 01:37:17< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: and it would go under [command], right?
20090812 01:37:31< Blueblaze> sure
20090812 01:38:26< Aethaeryn> alright, I think I'm seeing it now
20090812 01:38:38< Aethaeryn> Seeing how to do it I mean
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20090812 01:58:20< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: thanks, after a lot of playing around I got it to what I wanted.
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20090812 02:03:37< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: your method works better than the [object] method, only because I want to have red "-8" text. You win. :P
20090812 02:04:15< Aethaeryn> And it didn't take 50 lines, it took 36
20090812 02:04:21< Aethaeryn> (Per unit, of course)
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20090812 03:15:32< Aethaeryn> You know you've been using Linux too long when...
20090812 03:16:14< Aethaeryn> ...you see a commercial which mentions Windows as a strong point for a netbook, and you instinctively think "ugh," immediately associating Windows with taxes.
20090812 03:16:44< shadowmaster> I see those whenever I try to watch television. Not sure if that's what helped me stop watching television.
20090812 03:17:30< shadowmaster> OTOH, the newspapers often have some random advertisement from HP including the line "HP(TM) recommends(TM) Windows(R) Vista(TM) Bussiness(R)"(TM)
20090812 03:17:44< Aethaeryn> Unfortunately, I'm not in charge of this house. I either have to sit uncomfortably and hurt my back after an hour... or have a TV on in the background...
20090812 03:17:51< shadowmaster> soon to be replaced with Windows 7, an operating system that I'd actually recommend.
20090812 03:17:54< Aethaeryn> Even if the individual who wants the TV on is asleep or in the other room.
20090812 03:18:19< Ukraneean> wait if they're asleep how could they make you keep it on?
20090812 03:18:20< Aethaeryn> Apparently if I turn of the TV and it gets some kind of error/problem (which happens with digital cable sometimes, errors showing up) they blame it on me turning it off.
20090812 03:18:23< Ukraneean> does it wake them up when u turn it on?
20090812 03:18:26< Ukraneean> *off
20090812 03:18:31< Ukraneean> XD
20090812 03:18:45< Aethaeryn> Ukraneean: that's how. They see it off.
20090812 03:18:53< Ukraneean> ah
20090812 03:19:08< Aethaeryn> And I can't backtalk elders on what's really going on with electronics...
20090812 03:19:17< Aethaeryn> Even though I'm almost 19 and they're all 50+.
20090812 03:19:42< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: I always figured you older.
20090812 03:19:49< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I always act older.
20090812 03:19:57< Ukraneean> my grandmother always talks about "Electricity coursin' through its veins!" when in reference to any electronic
20090812 03:20:03< Aethaeryn> And I purposely didn't reveal my age until college and 18.
20090812 03:20:16< Aethaeryn> Gains more respect when you make people assume you're older.
20090812 03:20:17< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: no, not really, but I still figured you older :P
20090812 03:20:25< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I'm an old soul.
20090812 03:21:00< Aethaeryn> Youngest son from parents on the old side, youngest cousin from a large extended family.
20090812 03:21:19< Aethaeryn> It has an effect, always being around older people.
20090812 03:21:27< Ukraneean> makes you feel older?
20090812 03:21:39< Aethaeryn> Makes young-acting behavior less acceptable.
20090812 03:23:51< Aethaeryn> Besides, my mom has always been in favor of something called "cultural literacy" - aka. knowing about movies/books/events that were popular before you were born.
20090812 03:24:02< Aethaeryn> Would help me if I ever went on a trivia show ;)
20090812 03:24:14< Ukraneean> or had to talk to your boss about something
20090812 03:24:22< Ukraneean> :P
20090812 03:24:31< Ukraneean> idk I think your mom's got a point
20090812 03:24:35< Aethaeryn> Yeah. There's obviously parent-motivated reasons to do so.
20090812 03:24:58< Aethaeryn> That, and I also know more about computers than I should...
20090812 03:25:08< Aethaeryn> Because my parents, although old, were both programmers back in their day.
20090812 03:25:32< Aethaeryn> My mom retired early, my dad's now more into other kinds of computer engineering now...
20090812 03:25:42< Aethaeryn> ICT I think... Information Communications Technology...
20090812 03:25:58< Aethaeryn> Kinda like IT, but with telecommunications and internet administration more of the focus? I guess.
20090812 03:26:53< Aethaeryn> I used Firefox in alpha when it went by a different name... (Firebird? Or was there one before that... I think it went through two changes...) 
20090812 03:26:57< Aethaeryn> And Mozilla Suite before that.
20090812 03:27:03< shadowmaster> Firebird indeeed
20090812 03:27:14< Aethaeryn> I used late Red Hat Linux, and then early Fedora (Core).
20090812 03:28:50< Aethaeryn> So that's why I scoff at Ubuntu. It really isn't that much easier... It's just more popular...
20090812 03:28:55< Ukraneean> iv got a great idea for an era
20090812 03:29:02< Ukraneean> it would be an era of walking corpses bats and goblins
20090812 03:29:09< Ukraneean> and they'd be led by that level four undead with leadership
20090812 03:29:14< Aethaeryn> The only thing it's easier to do on Ubuntu is install proprietary stuff... since it's headquartered out of the US.
20090812 03:29:19< Aethaeryn> For Fedora, you need the livna repositories.
20090812 03:29:23< Ukraneean> XD
20090812 03:29:58< Aethaeryn> Ukraneean: Did you see Just for Fun?
20090812 03:30:05< Ukraneean> no
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20090812 03:30:16< Aethaeryn> I published four eras. The three I played a bit...
20090812 03:30:25< Aethaeryn> As well as one that is called Everything.
20090812 03:30:28< Aethaeryn> Take a guess as to what it is.
20090812 03:31:04< Aethaeryn> Okay, you'll probably guess incorrectly. You have any default era leader, plus ogre and bandit, and any default era unit, plus the lvl 0 humans, the thug, and the mermaid initiate, and the young ogre.
20090812 03:31:23< Aethaeryn> It's like pick your own recruits, except where you don't get to pick. You'll literally have no idea what you'll face.
20090812 03:31:25< Ukraneean> huh
20090812 03:31:38< Aethaeryn> Ukraneean: You recruit any default units. :P
20090812 03:31:52< Ukraneean> cool
20090812 03:32:10< Aethaeryn> The recruit list is so long that you could literally recruit a different unit every time.
20090812 03:32:36< Ukraneean> that sounds really awesome
20090812 03:32:48< Aethaeryn> It took me probably 10 minutes.
20090812 03:32:59< Aethaeryn> Every time I make a minimalistic default-using era, it takes even less time.
20090812 03:33:03< Ukraneean> impressive 
20090812 03:33:08< Aethaeryn> Which is why they don't deserve their own spaces individually on the add-ons server :P
20090812 03:33:36< Aethaeryn> I think I'm the first person to do an era pack.
20090812 03:33:44< Aethaeryn> A group of unrelated eras.
20090812 03:33:45< Ukraneean> you're a pioneer
20090812 03:34:12< Aethaeryn> I'd rather be remembered for things that take more work, like Thunderstone 
20090812 03:34:21< Ukraneean> "A dragon and zombies: five minutes.  A bunch of default units: ten minutes.  All of that combined: priceless.
20090812 03:34:24< Aethaeryn> Just for Fun is, as the name implies, only for interesting games.
20090812 03:34:51< Aethaeryn> I should change the description in the 0.2 version to "Eras that take longer to play than it took to make."
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20090812 03:35:43< Ukraneean> that would be more accurate
20090812 03:35:48< Aethaeryn> The unfortunately sad fact is that some people may enjoy the eras that collectively probably took an hour to two tops to make... than eras that people put their life's work in.
20090812 03:36:19< Zarel> It depends on how you define "took to make"
20090812 03:36:23< Ukraneean> yea like modern combat which is fun :D
20090812 03:36:26< Ukraneean> XD
20090812 03:36:47< Ukraneean> modern combat took half a year to make and still takes longer to play  
20090812 03:36:47< Zarel> I mean, if we're talking about the eras based on Default, we have to realize that Default probably has far more development/balance effort in it than all other eras combined.
20090812 03:36:49< Aethaeryn> Ukraneean: Modern Combat took 4 months.
20090812 03:36:56< Ukraneean> whatever
20090812 03:36:59< Ukraneean> half a year four months
20090812 03:37:03< Ukraneean> it rounds up
20090812 03:37:22< Ukraneean> to half a year
20090812 03:37:22< Aethaeryn> Zarel: And that is the principle behind New Alliances, one of the eras in Just for Fun.
20090812 03:37:25< Aethaeryn> that it would actually be more polished/balanced to remix factions than to actually make new ones.
20090812 03:37:40< Ukraneean> oh yea that stuff is hopped up
20090812 03:37:41< Aethaeryn> For example, Drakes - Saurians + Orcs + Troll Whelp.
20090812 03:37:52< Ukraneean> plus there's absolutely NO way for the nature alliance to defeat undead 
20090812 03:37:54< Ukraneean> :D
20090812 03:38:54< Ukraneean> fun fun fun
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20090812 05:45:55< _russell_> is there a way to use network commands in wml?
20090812 05:52:01< Blueblaze> What did you have in mind? Something like kicking a person from a game via wml in a scenario?
20090812 05:52:25< _russell_> haha more like a game that you can join as an observer
20090812 05:52:34< _russell_> and have a completely new side
20090812 05:52:48< _russell_> or rather one that was left empty
20090812 05:53:20< _russell_> so basically the control command
20090812 05:53:50< Blueblaze> Well, you can workaround it with WML, no you cannot do network commands to control a new side being formed, but you could try creating an AI side that was more or less empty
20090812 05:54:11< Blueblaze> and when an observer joins, the host give sthe player that AI side, the player does something like right click the hero or whatever (which can be stored on the side of the map) and activates the side
20090812 05:54:48< _russell_> yeah thanks
20090812 05:55:21< _russell_> its kind of hard to explain what im making
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20090812 06:21:02< _russell_> another question about the inclusion of macros. I'm trying to add a macro defines LABELS which puts a bunch of persistent labels on the map? (I sort of followed the format for Survival Fusion 2)
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20090812 07:02:46< ancestral> P.S. Blueblaze is lazy
20090812 07:03:17< ancestral> P.P.S. Okay maybe not quite as lazy as I thought, but he's still quite a bit lazy :P
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20090812 10:41:17< Valkier> Cause I know you guys want it so badly, here's the revenant.
20090812 10:41:17< Valkier> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=33489&mode=view
20090812 10:43:19< zookeeper> i find it really hard to say much about your skellie portraits while they're still that big and on the black background.
20090812 10:43:55< Valkier> Gotta talk to TSI then. He's the one that dictates a version with black backgrounds :-P
20090812 10:44:13< zookeeper> it was the same with both previous ones: to me they just look awfully blurry and messy in the WIP stage (even the finished parts), which just goes away immediately in the final backgroundless version
20090812 10:45:15< zookeeper> like the deathblade looked rather bland and mediocre to me all until the final backgroundless version, in which it suddenly looked really cool
20090812 10:45:29< Valkier> Weird.
20090812 10:46:31< Valkier> I really don't change much at all between the lined and unlined versions.
20090812 10:47:24< Ivanovic> moin
20090812 10:48:19< zookeeper> yeah, i guess it's just because the outlines blend with the black so well that it just ends up looking much less defined and more blurry to me...maybe it's just me
20090812 10:48:36< Valkier> Could also be your monitor.
20090812 10:48:58< Valkier> The difference between the low end 22" and my high end 22" color wise is somewhat startling.
20090812 10:51:35< zookeeper> i guess
20090812 10:52:29< Valkier> It's the only idea I have. I seriously don't change anything that would make one version sharper than the other.
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20090812 14:25:04< rski> i gotta say
20090812 14:25:12< rski> the music is pretty nice when you're a stoner
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20090812 15:47:26< jzmer_> is it expected for users to redirect /usr/share/wesnoth/fonts/DejaVuSans.ttf symlink?
20090812 15:47:56< jzmer_> i mean, is wesnoth designed to work with *all* latin fonts?
20090812 15:48:19< jzmer_> so that other fonts like bitstream vera sans, etc. can also be used?
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20090812 16:01:09< jzmer_> or is it so that wesnoth is designed just to work dejavu's font metrics?
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20090812 22:09:19< conor> on a standard multiplayer map, how long should it take before enemies sight each other
20090812 22:10:46< Blueblaze> 2-3 turns
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20090812 22:13:40< conor> is 5 turns excessive?
20090812 22:14:23< Blueblaze> yes
20090812 22:14:33< Blueblaze> But it is your map, so it is your choice to be excessive or not
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 13 00:00:44 2009