--- Log opened Thu Sep 03 00:00:48 2009
20090903 00:00:58< Blueblaze> No, someone asked me if it would be okay to update it to the trunk, I only physically maintain the stable branch version
20090903 00:02:11< boucman> night all
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20090903 00:03:13< zookeeper> meh, ok
20090903 00:03:54< Ivanovic> esr: i fear that SoF is a bad mixup of en_GB and en_US
20090903 00:04:10< Ivanovic> esr: the main issue is Sceptre vs Scepter
20090903 00:04:18< esr> I know.
20090903 00:04:54< esr> I'd fix that, if Siro hadn't said he liked the British spelling better for this context.
20090903 00:05:00< shadowmaster> esr: would it be feasible to add a switch to wmllint to disable using python-enchant?
20090903 00:05:19< esr> Yes.  Why, is that eating too much time?
20090903 00:05:28< shadowmaster> for my purposes, yes.
20090903 00:05:37< esr> Noted.
20090903 00:05:57< esr> I'm working on wmllint now, so this should get done quickly.
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20090903 00:08:49< Ivanovic> esr: the matter is that there are still some places where the en_US spelling is used
20090903 00:09:15< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38336 /trunk/ (50 files in 2 dirs): add (most) changes from r38316 by esr to pofix and apply it on the po files (pot-update about to follow)
20090903 00:09:24< Ivanovic> esr: you could just run "grep -i scepter" on po/wesnoth-sof/wesnoth-sof.pot to get all of them
20090903 00:09:51< esr> Ivanovic: Now I'm ficve request deep.  Would you do it, please?
20090903 00:10:15< Ivanovic> those shall all be changed?
20090903 00:10:16< shadowmaster> :)
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20090903 00:14:16< CIA-62> esr * r38337 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (58 files in 21 dirs): 
20090903 00:14:16< CIA-62> Change death events in which the dying units speak to last breath events.
20090903 00:14:16< CIA-62> (Yes, I'm teaching wmllint how to warn about this.)
20090903 00:15:33< esr> Ivanovic: I see "scepter" omnly in use in artifact IDs"
20090903 00:15:58< Ivanovic> esr: give me a sec, will be done soon
20090903 00:16:02< Ivanovic> and i won't touch the IDs
20090903 00:16:32< CIA-62> fendrin * r38338 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/21_Elvish_Assassins.cfg: LoW 21: Redesigned this scenario. One of Kalenz allies is going to betray him now.
20090903 00:16:52< Ivanovic> esr: a request
20090903 00:17:06< Ivanovic> can i change this string: "I want you to make it into a sceptre, a sceptre of fire."
20090903 00:17:27< Ivanovic> to "I want you to make it into a sceptre, a Sceptre of Fire." (capitalization of sceptre of fire)?
20090903 00:18:09< esr> Don't capitalize it there.  I have done so only after the artifact is made and named.
20090903 00:18:16< Ivanovic> grml
20090903 00:18:28< Ivanovic> okay, pofix will fail a little then when fixing the sceptre name
20090903 00:18:31< esr> Sorry,,,,
20090903 00:18:36< shadowmaster> esr: how many sceptres of fire are there then? :/
20090903 00:18:46< shadowmaster> it sounds like a proper name.
20090903 00:19:17< esr> shadowmaster: The point is, you capitalize proper names.  The thing doesn'tt exoist to be named yet.
20090903 00:27:01< Ivanovic> okay, you'll have fun with the next svn up, this pot-update is rather huge
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20090903 00:28:42 * shadowmaster fetches it before next router crash cycle
20090903 00:29:24< shadowmaster> \o/
20090903 00:29:29< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: at least on my box it has not shown that the upload is done yet
20090903 00:29:36< shadowmaster> eh, here it is?
20090903 00:29:51< shadowmaster> r38341
20090903 00:30:02< Ivanovic> ah, okay, it is done here, too
20090903 00:30:08< Ivanovic> exactly
20090903 00:33:05< Ivanovic> really off to bed now, have fun
20090903 00:33:29< Ivanovic> corn: and please have a look at the crash stuff, something should be in todays backlog
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20090903 00:39:00< CIA-62> esr * r38344 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Teach wmllint to detect units speaking in their "die" events.
20090903 00:39:01< CIA-62> esr * r38343 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/2_Tutorial.cfg: Fix gender bug pointed out by Stikonas.
20090903 00:39:02< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38340 /trunk/src/editor/: set missing svn:ignore
20090903 00:39:03< CIA-62> esr * r38342 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/21_Elvish_Assassins.cfg: Polished up the betrayal speech.
20090903 00:39:05< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38339 /trunk/ (52 files in 3 dirs): fix some more typos in SoF and accordingly add them to pofix
20090903 00:39:13< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38341 /trunk/po/ (792 files in 23 dirs): pot-update
20090903 00:45:14< shadowmaster> is DISABLE_POOL_ALLOC defined by default?
20090903 00:45:51< shadowmaster> ah yes, it is. nvm
20090903 00:49:01< fabi> esr: Thank you :-)
20090903 00:52:19< esr> fabi: You have a bit more work to do - that scenario doesn't lint cleann now.
20090903 00:53:52< CIA-62> esr * r38345 /trunk/data/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Change more die events to last breaths.
20090903 00:55:23< shadowmaster> I usually use couples of [event] name=last breath (taunts/dialogue) and [event] name=die (effects of death/more dialogue) in my new code
20090903 00:55:41< shadowmaster> maybe you want to consider that.
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20090903 01:09:17< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090903 01:14:03< CIA-62> fendrin * r38346 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/21_Elvish_Assassins.cfg: LoW 21: Fixed bugs reported by wmllint.
20090903 01:14:40< CIA-62> fendrin * r38347 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/22_Northern_Battle.cfg: LoW 22: Fixed a wrong spelled unit name.
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20090903 01:16:32< CIA-62> fendrin * r38348 /trunk/changelog: Updated the changelog.
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20090903 01:45:30< CIA-62> ilor * r38349 /trunk/src/editor/editor_preferences.cpp: change back the default editor behavior wrt displaying terrain codes and hex coords
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20090903 02:16:28< CIA-62> fendrin * r38350 /trunk/data/scenario-poisoning.cfg: Fixed a wrong spelled attribute.
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20090903 02:54:42< CIA-62> fendrin * r38351 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (15 files): LoW: Translatable team names added.
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20090903 03:00:21< esr> fabi: wmllint now detects units speaking in their death events.  All mainline instances have been fixed.  All the prose-hacking requests I know about are done.  Is there anything else you needed?
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20090903 03:03:47< CIA-62> esr * r38352 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Two more tweaks to pacify wmllint.
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20090903 03:07:12< fabi> esr: We may consider to update DM's gold handling. In most scenarios gold is stored and restored by macros. The player isn't noticed about what is going on. In most cases it would be nice to communicate that to the player by prober use of note in the objectives and by tuning the endlevel tags.
20090903 03:09:56< fabi> esr: For example if Delfador is teleported to the land of the death in the next scenario and isn't going to keep any gold there note={NO_GOLD_CARRYOVER_NOTE} should be placed inside the objectives and [endlevel] carryover_percentage=0 should be set as well.
20090903 03:11:39< esr> You probably don't need me for that.
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20090903 03:13:17< fabi> esr: Not for the coding. But some of that communication may need strings or may need to be deceided on the storyline. In some cases it fits the storyline to keep the player informed and in some it's not a good idea.
20090903 03:15:23< fabi> heavy changes might even need rebalancing and playtesting.
20090903 03:15:51< esr> OK.  Is there any specific storyline hacking you want, or should I go do Shadowmater's request now>
20090903 03:16:16< esr> I recommend against heavy changes this late in 1.7.
20090903 03:17:57< fabi> esr: No, I will look at this tomorrow. After that I will contact you and we can talk about what needs to be done. I am off for know so feel free to work on Shadowmaster's request.
20090903 03:23:43< CIA-62> esr * r38353 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Support a --nospellcheck option.
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20090903 03:37:55< noy> I can't stand users who just can't do anything themselves
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20090903 04:24:22< Blueblaze> noy: What is that in referance to?
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20090903 04:38:10< noy> ah nothing
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20090903 05:50:37< corn> alink: can you describe how to replicate?
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20090903 05:53:35< corn> just reload savegame... will try now
20090903 05:59:26< alink> corn: yes, just reload savegame and reverting your last commit fix it
20090903 06:01:17< corn> is the fix in trunk already?
20090903 06:01:21< corn> I am reloading the savegame and not crashing
20090903 06:01:36< alink> no, i mean reverting localy
20090903 06:02:49< corn> ok, here is what I did: loaded a fresh HttT campaign, skipped several turns, then loaded the autosaves
20090903 06:03:19< corn> ah, it crashes on exit
20090903 06:04:50< alink> here in HttT1, directly click on "back to turn 1" cause a crash
20090903 06:04:51< corn> it's not OK to break savegames from previous dev versions, right?
20090903 06:05:15< corn> the issue is that I am assuming that a piece of wml config exists while it will only exist when the new-uploader is eanbled
20090903 06:05:51< corn> 1 line fix if I break old savegames and 2 line fix if I don't
20090903 06:06:09< alink> i think it's ok to break compatibility with older dev version
20090903 06:06:35< alink> but not being able to test it a bit risky
20090903 06:06:59< alink> and would be nice if trunk was fixed
20090903 06:07:10< corn> ok, I'll put in a backward compatible fix
20090903 06:09:19< alink> if compatibility is possible, it's always better to be nice with dev-version testers :-)
20090903 06:10:10< corn> at what point can compatibility be dropped?
20090903 06:11:15< alink> when needed, or maybe after 1 or 2 dev versions
20090903 06:11:48< alink> I am not sure, for the MP server, we break it each time, I think 
20090903 06:13:01< corn> ok, since I can't replicate your crash 100% I'll put up a patch on gna and you apply to a local copy
20090903 06:13:05< corn> it fixed my crash
20090903 06:15:01< alink> ok, but right now or someone else will need to test it, because i am about to leave
20090903 06:15:05< corn> sure
20090903 06:16:17< corn> https://gna.org/patch/?1274
20090903 06:21:31< alink> i can't make it crash, so it seems fixed, thanks
20090903 06:21:35< corn> ok, commiting
20090903 06:23:14< CIA-62> cornmander * r38354 /trunk/src/upload_log.cpp: Fixed attempted null pointer dereference that led to savegame load crashes introduced in r38311. Changed usage of child_count() in read_replay() to child().
20090903 06:24:03< alink> ok, older savegame, MP, campaign save, auto-save, all works fine
20090903 06:25:16< alink> so, on this good news, i can leave now, bye
20090903 06:25:21< corn> goodnight
20090903 06:25:23< corn> thanks for catching the bug
20090903 06:25:28< alink> np
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20090903 09:50:56< YogiHH> hello
20090903 09:51:04< Crab_> hello
20090903 09:52:48< YogiHH> Soliton: I got std::find_if running alright now. I looked at some of the uses elsewhere in the code. The only thing i didn't understand was passing "this" as second parameter to boost::bind, as it doesn't seem to be related to the function call. Do you know what that is about?
20090903 09:53:34< Crab_> YogiHH: what do you pass to boost::bind ? 
20090903 09:53:46< Soliton> YogiHH: the example i mentioned doesn't do that so no. :-)
20090903 09:55:08< YogiHH> Crab_: Well, what i wrote can't make use of "this", as it is not a function that belongs to a class. So what i do is boost::bind(function, par1, par2), as my function needs two parameters.
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20090903 09:55:27< YogiHH> Crab_: But i have also seen this: boost::bind(function, this, par...)
20090903 09:55:51< YogiHH> and obviously, "this" wasn't needed as a parameter for that function
20090903 09:56:15< Crab_> YogiHH: where 'function' is member function of some class ?
20090903 09:56:41< YogiHH> Crab_: hmm, could be, i didn't check that
20090903 09:57:04< YogiHH> that would make sense then, of course
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20090903 10:12:32< fabi> hello
20090903 10:12:59< Ivanovic> moin
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20090903 10:14:44< Ivanovic> corn: so is the new upload method now active by default?
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20090903 10:21:32< Soliton> hmm, i just crashed when starting a mp game. can't reproduce now though and there was nothing interesting in the log...
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20090903 10:25:42< Crab_> Soliton: I try to make a habit of always running wesnoth under gdb, just in case :)
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20090903 10:28:19< Ivanovic> sapient: please make sure that you are on the gsoc mentor ml from now on
20090903 10:28:35< Ivanovic> (you should at least have read access via the webinterface from google groups!
20090903 10:28:52< Ivanovic> (it is important because there would be too much for me to forward, currently the important stuff is happening)
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20090903 10:39:01< CIA-62> fendrin * r38355 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (11 files): LoW: Redone most of the endlevel tags.
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20090903 11:04:50< YogiHH> Ivanovic: Did i miss any talk from boucman regarding mentor summit?
20090903 11:05:03< Ivanovic> YogiHH: i don't think so
20090903 11:05:19< Ivanovic> i just wanted to mention that those participating in the summit should have a look at the latest mail
20090903 11:05:34< Ivanovic> since there the info about payment and all the likes is listed (will be "interesting" to solve...)
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20090903 11:22:41< ilor_> I got to building wesnoth on my new computer finally... I like the 2:30-ish build times
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20090903 11:32:36< Ivanovic> ilor_: :)
20090903 11:32:53< Ivanovic> ilor_: now you know how i feel over here regarding "increased build times"
20090903 11:32:54< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 11:34:04< ilor_> Ivanovic: now trying a slight overclock
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20090903 11:35:04< ilor_> hmm, 2:05
20090903 11:35:31< ilor_> after bumping the clock to 3.2GHz from 2.66
20090903 11:39:44< YogiHH> ilor_: Well, admittedly it is a while ago, but back then overclocking was one of the best methods to destroy or at least significantly reduce the lifecycle times of hardware.
20090903 11:40:47< ilor_> YogiHH: this cpu routinely goes to 3.8 - 4ghz on air cooling. 3.2 is barely significant
20090903 11:42:16< YogiHH> ilor_: so 2.66GHz is an energy saving mode?
20090903 11:42:56< ilor_> YogiHH: realistically, yes ;P
20090903 11:42:56< YogiHH> or what is meant by "routinely"?
20090903 11:43:33< ilor_> YogiHH: I mean this cpu model oveclocks well in general
20090903 11:44:10< ilor_> YogiHH: so upping the frequency by 600MHz is considered conservative
20090903 11:47:31< Ivanovic> ilor_: in the old day when i overclocked my duron 800 it worked well for some time at 900
20090903 11:47:44< Ivanovic> after some month it was not usable at that speed anymore, had to go down to 850
20090903 11:47:46< Ivanovic> and so on
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20090903 12:09:48< Crab_> alink: ping
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20090903 12:56:12< CIA-62> crab * r38356 /trunk/src/ai/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): Made 'unit move failed due to ambush' log via --log-info, not --log-error, to avoid cluttering the logs with error messages due to normal situations'
20090903 12:58:33< CIA-62> crab * r38357 /trunk/src/ai/default/move.cpp: fixed error in move_leader_to_keep part of ai_default, will get rid of wrong moves being considered, which were reported by 'move_leader_to_keep failed!' messages
20090903 12:58:39< CIA-62> crab * r38358 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp: fixed error in move_leader_to_keep part of testing_ai_default, will get rid of wrong moves being considered, which were reported by 'move_leader_to_keep failed!' messages
20090903 13:02:14< Crab_> Soliton: ^ fixed those errors, which happened yesterday on 1st turn of 'fusion'
20090903 13:04:22< Soliton> nice.
20090903 13:05:56< Soliton> "wesnoth: src/variable.cpp:495: virtual scoped_wml_variable::~scoped_wml_variable(): Assertion `(resources::state_of_game)->scoped_variables.back() == this' failed."
20090903 13:06:38< Soliton> that happened when trying to reload, possibly right after a save.
20090903 13:07:48< Soliton> right at scenario start anyway.
20090903 13:09:06< YogiHH> Soliton: noted
20090903 13:18:51< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38359 /branches/1.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
20090903 13:18:55< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38360 /trunk/po/ (10 files in 10 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
20090903 13:21:55< Ivanovic> Soliton: so does this fail "in general" so that loading is currently still borked?
20090903 13:23:39< Ivanovic> corn: uhm, savegame compatibility drops are "difficult"...
20090903 13:23:44< Ivanovic> (just reading this part in the log)
20090903 13:23:56< Ivanovic> Soliton: what is the current procedure we have for it?
20090903 13:24:10< Ivanovic> cf todays logs at about 6am
20090903 13:35:36< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38361 /branches/1.6/ (68 files in 2 dirs): 
20090903 13:35:36< CIA-62> pot-update (reference update only, no changed strings)
20090903 13:35:36< CIA-62> regenerated doc files
20090903 13:35:54< Crab_> Soliton: how to reproduce ?
20090903 13:36:59< Soliton> oh no, no general failure. i doubt i can reproduce but i can try.
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20090903 13:37:29< Soliton> Ivanovic: yes, that crash should be fixed.
20090903 13:38:05< Ivanovic> okay
20090903 13:38:28< Soliton> what is still there and should be fairly reproducable is that if you reload while an animation plays you go in browse mode and can't get out of it anymore.
20090903 13:39:24< Ivanovic> okay, a clear case of "doctor, it hurts when i do this!"
20090903 13:39:25< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 13:39:28< Soliton> ok, actually reproduced the assertion failure.
20090903 13:39:53< Soliton> reload when the scenario starts probably before you get the objectives.
20090903 13:40:01< Ivanovic> "uhm, why are you twisting the knife you got in your leg if it hurts you?"
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20090903 13:45:36< Ivanovic> fabi: please update http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/TextdomainStatus
20090903 13:45:46< Ivanovic> fabi: at least the LoW stuff should *really* be mentioned there
20090903 13:48:29-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.5 planned for Thursday, September 3rd | 1.6.5 planned for Sunday | 83 bugs, 242 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090903 13:51:40< cperciva> I have a couple of small patches to attack_prediction.cpp which improve performance; can I send them to someone to commit?
20090903 13:52:01< Ivanovic> cperciva: patches.wesnoth.org is the best place
20090903 13:52:14< Ivanovic> no idea who will review them, maybe Crab_ can have a look
20090903 13:52:24< Crab_> cperciva: post it on patches.wesnoth.org first, I'll take a look
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20090903 13:52:58< cperciva> Ivanovic: I was hoping to avoid creating an account there since I don't expect to ever submit any more patches... but I guess I can jump through the hoops :-/
20090903 13:53:06< Crab_> cperciva: no need to register
20090903 13:53:39< fabi> Ivanovic: done
20090903 13:53:53< Crab_> cperciva: afair, you can post a patch anonymously
20090903 13:53:56< cperciva> Crab_: ok, I can't find any "submit patch" link right now... where's it hiding?
20090903 13:53:58< Ivanovic> fabi: thanks
20090903 13:54:02< Crab_> cperciva: https://gna.org/patch/?func=additem&group=wesnoth
20090903 13:54:14< cperciva> Crab_: aha, thanks
20090903 13:54:17< Crab_> cperciva: it was hiding in 'patches->submit'
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20090903 14:00:37< cperciva> Crab_: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1275
20090903 14:01:01< Crab_> ok
20090903 14:03:46< corn> Ivanovic: no, I'll make the switch now since 1.7.5 is planned for today. I'll switch over 1.6.5 as well later
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20090903 14:09:56< Crab_> cperciva: have you tested/profiled the patch ?
20090903 14:11:17< cperciva> Crab_: I've run wesnoth with the patch, didn't see any errors, and found that it was faster in the situation I was testing (when one unit had lots of HP)
20090903 14:11:17< wesbot> cperciva: Sometimes we are fast
20090903 14:12:05< cperciva> Crab_: but I haven't done anything beyond that -- I couldn't figure out how to run the tests/profiling built in to the attack_prediction code
20090903 14:12:09< cperciva> wesbot: eh?
20090903 14:12:41< Crab_> cperciva: our bot reacts to words 'fаst', fаster', etc
20090903 14:13:40< Crab_> cperciva: ok. if the patch gets accepted, you'll be mentioned in credits, in  'misc. contributors' section. So, please (if you want to) tell me the name, under which you'd like to be mentioned.
20090903 14:14:55< cperciva> Crab_: just list me as "Colin Percival"
20090903 14:14:59< Crab_> ok
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20090903 14:19:36< corn> Soliton: are you free to help out with updating stats.wesnoth.org
20090903 14:19:46< corn> I need to make changes in the apache config and install a new package
20090903 14:19:57< Soliton> sure.
20090903 14:20:25< corn> ok, give me a few minutes first to finish a patch removing --new-uploader and defaulting the new code in the client
20090903 14:24:25< fabi> esr: ping
20090903 14:24:48< esr> fabi: What's up?
20090903 14:26:33< fabi> esr: Please ask Cathryn if she wants to playtest LoW once more. The campaign should be ready code wise but I don't know if it is still beatable or to easy in some of the remade scenarios.
20090903 14:26:39< Crab_> cperciva: please take a look at the second patch. you're changing ' for (unsigned int row = 0; row < a_summary[0].size(); row++) ' into ' for (int row = a_summary[0].size() - 1; row > 0; row--) { ', to allow finding out the minimum in the same loop. but what about row=0 ?
20090903 14:28:11< cperciva> Crab_: oops, that should have been row >= 0
20090903 14:28:29< cperciva> Crab_: and col >= 0 later on, of course
20090903 14:28:38< corn> hey guys, I am having trouble figuring out why I get intermittent segfaults from this block of code: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m5952ffc4
20090903 14:28:58< cperciva> Crab_: I'm not sure that it matters though... if a unit has 0 hp, it's dead and not getting into fights, right?
20090903 14:29:57< corn> my guess is that I delete out and filter has a deferred write that is done after I delete out
20090903 14:30:10< Crab_> corn: try flushing it
20090903 14:30:19< corn> Crab_: ok
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20090903 14:33:10< Crab_> cperciva: yes, but the probability of being dead - matters. it's attack prediction, after all :)
20090903 14:33:38< esr> fabi: There's a real problem there. Cathy's machine is seriously unstable - mean time betweenm crashes is too short for a Wesnoth build.  For complicated reasons we won't be able to replace it for a week or so. 
20090903 14:34:04< cperciva> Crab_: well, yes.  But I was thinking that the probability of being dead at the beginning of a fight would always be zero.
20090903 14:34:44< cperciva> not that it matters -- it was a typo whether harmless or not
20090903 14:34:48< Crab_> cperciva: attack prediction also handles cases "2,3,4,5,6 units are attacking a single target, one by one"
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20090903 14:35:51< Crab_> cperciva: i.e. the ai needs to see if it's possible to kill an enemy if that enemy is attacked with several ai units.
20090903 14:35:51< corn> Crab_: putting out->flush() between write() and delete out; didn't fix the segfault
20090903 14:36:27< Crab_> corn: which line is :246 ?
20090903 14:36:39< corn> end of function
20090903 14:36:45< corn> ah, sorry
20090903 14:36:56< corn> I think the problem is that I flushed ostream instead of the boost iostream
20090903 14:36:59< fabi> Crab_: Is it possible to make Galdrid in LoW very cautious after the switch to the ai side? It's possible to keep him alive until Kalenz arrives but I often loose him afterwards because he is to suicidal. Maybe we could even let the orcish forces retreat after Kalenz arrival for a regrouping.
20090903 14:37:49< Crab_> fabi: ' Is it possible to make Galdrid in LoW very cautious after the switch to the ai side' - yes. set lower aggression and somewhat higher caution.
20090903 14:38:44< fabi> Crab_: I fear that is not enough. He needs an ai that looks for a save place on the map and runs for it if the situation is too desperate. 
20090903 14:40:48< Crab_> fabi: ' Maybe we could even let the orcish forces retreat after Kalenz arrival for a regrouping.' - change {ORC_BATTLEFIELD_EVALUATION} to account for Kalenz arrival more. if the score is <=-25, then orcs defend.
20090903 14:41:05< corn> Crab_: nope, still bugged, here is the current code: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2b138a61
20090903 14:42:12< fabi> Crab_: The orcs evaluated the battlefield and gave the command to retreat because the Kalian was more or less empty. But that didn't save Galtrid...
20090903 14:43:24< fabi> esr: That would be quite in time. I need it balanced in 1.8, for 1.7.5 it is definitely too late.
20090903 14:43:47< Crab_> fabi: is Galtrid inside the citadel at the time of death ?
20090903 14:43:56< Crab_> (i.e. 'near recruitment area')
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20090903 14:45:09< esr> fabi: OK, I'll ask her.
20090903 14:45:20< fabi> esr: Thanks
20090903 14:45:42< fabi> Crab_: No, he was south of it.
20090903 14:47:45< fabi> Crab_: I went with some of the forces north to kill the slayer. This was succesfull but all my elves died there afterwards. In the south Galdrid was more or less save with only a few units surviving to protect him.
20090903 14:48:25< Crab_> fabi: as I see from LoW 7, to the south-west of the Ka'lian stands the Keep of El'lthsomir. maybe we can re-mask the map after fog lifts to make this keep 'on-map' ?
20090903 14:50:12< Crab_> fabi: it looks like a safe place for Galtrid to retreat
20090903 14:51:16< fabi> Crab_: good idea. I will do that.
20090903 14:52:16< Crab_> fabi: then, as simple fix (doable for 1.7.5), we can ask the player once "what should Galtrid do?" 1) defend Ka'Lian 2) attack enemy 3) defend from that keep
20090903 14:52:32< Crab_> fabi: and, later, we'll fix the ai controller
20090903 14:53:06< fabi> Crab_: That's a plan :-)
20090903 14:54:40< Crab_> Ivanovic: how much time is left before 1.7.5 ?
20090903 14:54:47< Ivanovic> corn: okay, so i assume you are still working on the uploader stuff, right?
20090903 14:54:58< Ivanovic> Crab_: i wanted to work on it right now, currently i wait for corn
20090903 14:55:10< corn> Ivanovic: should be done within a few min
20090903 14:55:46< Ivanovic> AI0867, cib0, corn, Crab_, dfranke, esr, fabi, loonycyborg, Rhonda, shadowmaster, Soliton, thespaceinvader, YogiHH, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.7.5?
20090903 14:56:06< Ivanovic> if not, please ping me (and tell me what is not ready and/or blocking) as soon as possible
20090903 14:56:59< Crab_> fabi: then (if you want to), a quicker (but hacky) option: let Galtrid ask the player "my forces are weakened. Should I relocate to the reserve keep?" or something like that, and instantly-move him via WML to that keep.
20090903 14:57:07< Crab_> fabi: it'll quickly get Galtrid out of danger
20090903 14:57:30< corn> Crab_: fixed the problem, I had to wrap everything to do with filtering_stream filter; in a local scope block so that the destructor to it is called before out is deleted
20090903 14:57:42< Crab_> corn: ok
20090903 14:58:13< YogiHH> Crab_: cheater ;-)
20090903 14:58:32< esr> Ivanovic: Lry me run a last wmllint/wmlscope check.
20090903 14:58:40< Ivanovic> esr: sure
20090903 15:00:07 * esr has John Petrucci's "Suspended Animation" album on.  Seriously excellent crunchy guitar...
20090903 15:00:09< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Not ready, but I don't matter anyway. :)
20090903 15:00:22< Crab_> YogiHH: just considering solutions doable in the time left :)
20090903 15:00:34< esr> Test is running.
20090903 15:00:49< esr> wmlscope reports no unresolved references.
20090903 15:01:59< esr> wmllint still running...
20090903 15:04:02< fabi> Crab_: Let's to all the changes after 1.7.5.
20090903 15:04:05< CIA-62> cornmander * r38362 /trunk/src/ (4 files): Removed --new-uploader and associated code since new uploader is now default.
20090903 15:04:07< Crab_> fabi: ok
20090903 15:04:15< corn> Ivanovic: ^, I'm ready now
20090903 15:05:04< Ivanovic> corn: okay
20090903 15:05:23< esr> wmllint reports no WML usage errors.  Spell-checking...
20090903 15:05:44< esr> Spellcheck passed.  Looks good, ship it.
20090903 15:06:07-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090903 15:06:19< Ivanovic> esr: great
20090903 15:06:29< Ivanovic> i will now compile and test if i can start the campaigns
20090903 15:06:36< Ivanovic> (and if loading savegames does work ;) )
20090903 15:07:04< Ivanovic> corn: regarding savegame incompatibility the main route is "try not to introduce them!"
20090903 15:07:32< Ivanovic> corn: though there are mechanisms to completely stop the game from loading old saves below a specified version for the case that saves below will crash the whole game
20090903 15:07:34< fabi> Ivanovic: I still have a problem with a scenario. Should only be a matter of minutes.
20090903 15:07:58< Ivanovic> fabi: sure, take your time
20090903 15:08:16< Ivanovic> corn: the last time such a step was required was the switch from 1.3.9 to 1.3.10
20090903 15:08:45< Ivanovic> though it *might* make a lot of sense to add something like this some time "soon" to a point after the savegame rewrite
20090903 15:09:11< Ivanovic> that is YogiHH might have an idea how much "backwardscompatibility code" is currently in trunk just for the saves (euschn should know for sure)
20090903 15:09:41< YogiHH> Ivanovic: Seriously, you can load savegames from 1.3.10 still?
20090903 15:10:28< Ivanovic> YogiHH: at least we are not doing anything to actively prevent this
20090903 15:10:49< Ivanovic> maybe someone still has such a save around and can test what happens
20090903 15:10:50< YogiHH> Ivanovic: Regarding replays i can tell you that after shipping 1.7.5 the minimum required version will soon be 1.7.6 ;-)
20090903 15:11:27< corn> Ivanovic: I thought I saw a bug for the wesnoth pkg in ubuntu where users were complaining that 1.4->1.6 broke their savegames
20090903 15:11:29< fabi> Ivanovic: It's not a bug. Only a issue that prevents me from skipping through the campaign with debug next. So my parts seem to be ready.
20090903 15:11:31< corn> (artificially)
20090903 15:11:57< Ivanovic> corn: we don't gurantee anything that is
20090903 15:12:17< Ivanovic> it is just a case of "the saves from before this version will crash the game which is bad, so we don't even attempt to load them"
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20090903 15:14:38< Ivanovic> fabi, esr: DM is currently broken
20090903 15:14:42< Ivanovic> it is not possible to start it
20090903 15:14:54< Ivanovic> 20090903 15:14:18 error general: Fehler beim Laden der Konfigurationsdateien: '^Nicht abgeschlossenes [element] Element, Wert '-' an /games/wesnoth-svn/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_clash_at_the_manor.cfg:234 included from /games/wesnoth-svn/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/_main.cfg:17 included from /games/wesnoth-svn/data/_main.cfg:11
20090903 15:14:56< Ivanovic> ^Nicht abgeschlossenes Abschlusselement, Wert '-' an /games/wesnoth-svn/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_clash_at_the_manor.cfg:238 included from /games/wesnoth-svn/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/_main.cfg:17 included from /games/wesnoth-svn/data/_main.cfg:11
20090903 15:15:32-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090903 15:15:44< esr> Urgh.
20090903 15:18:17< Ivanovic> esr: looks like it does not like the '-' in fire-event
20090903 15:18:43< fabi> Ivanovic, esr: And the fire_event should be inside the [then], shouldn't it?
20090903 15:18:57< esr> It isn't?
20090903 15:19:09< esr> Checking...
20090903 15:19:58< Ivanovic> it is not fire_event but fire-event
20090903 15:20:04< Ivanovic> probably that is the prob?
20090903 15:20:51 * esr think he knows what wmllint check he will write next...
20090903 15:20:51< fabi> The code calls it fire-event. But it's not inside the [then] tag but in the conditional part of the if. I don't believe you can fire events there.
20090903 15:21:22< Ivanovic> no idea if it would work at the end, i just know that atm it does not start at all
20090903 15:21:32< Ivanovic> lets see if things change when correcting the - to _
20090903 15:21:41< esr> Weird. I can't finfd a "fire-vent" in my copy of LoW.  What scenario is it?
20090903 15:22:01< fabi> esr: DM 21
20090903 15:22:14< esr> Looking...
20090903 15:22:29< fabi> line 234
20090903 15:23:06< Ivanovic> yes, with this change it at least starts DM
20090903 15:23:16< Ivanovic> the right syntax is [fire_event]
20090903 15:23:18< Ivanovic> changing this
20090903 15:24:05< fabi> Ivanovic: also move it into the [then] please.
20090903 15:24:17< Ivanovic> just commited that change
20090903 15:25:27< Ivanovic> okay, done
20090903 15:25:54< esr> Gad, I must have been asleep when I coded that.
20090903 15:26:12< Ivanovic> :)
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20090903 15:27:02< YogiHH> esr: nah, you must have been asleep when you tested that ;-)
20090903 15:27:09< fabi> esr: Use the emacs wml mode. It will tab complete only valid tags and would not have allowed a fire event in the if.
20090903 15:27:24< esr> I do use it.
20090903 15:27:25< AI0867> the advantage of touchscreens + on-screen keyboards: you can't log in through muscle memory when asleep
20090903 15:27:26< Ivanovic> brrr, emacs...
20090903 15:28:15< fabi> esr: If it did that willingly somewhere in our codebase must be a fire_event in if spelled fire-event ...
20090903 15:29:52< esr> Hm.  Must write that wmllint check.
20090903 15:30:31< fabi> esr: No, it doesn't complete it for me. You must have written it without tab completion or copy and pasted it from somewhere.
20090903 15:30:52< fabi> Or there is a nondeterministic bug in the emacs wml mode.
20090903 15:31:47< esr> Most likely I just fat-fingered it while coding too late at night.  Or, rather, too early in the morning...
20090903 15:34:46< fabi> Ivanovic: emacs with that mode is the only wml editing tool that does some syntax checking right now. I hope it doesn't die because the maintainer seems to have left...
20090903 15:35:12 * fabi recommends the usage of the emacs wml mode to every one writing wml
20090903 15:37:43< corn> Crab_: do you have a test running right now?
20090903 15:38:26< Crab_> corn: yes.
20090903 15:38:29< Crab_> TEST: map multiplayer_The_Freelands i=7420 d=1
20090903 15:38:29< Crab_> Running: ../../wesnoth ../.. --log-debug=uploader --new-uploader --log-info=ai/testing --nogui --multiplayer --controller1=ai --controller2=ai --label="30_aug_2009_ai_default_vs_ai_testing_plus_fai_recruitment" --scenario=multiplayer_The_Freelands --ai_config1=ai/dev/testing_ai_default.cfg --ai_config2=ai/ais/default_ai.cfg
20090903 15:38:36< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38364 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_clash_at_the_manor.cfg: moved event into the [then] block, otherwise it probably would not work...
20090903 15:38:39< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38363 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_clash_at_the_manor.cfg: correct typo preventing DM from starting at all ('-' to '_')
20090903 15:39:02< corn> Crab_: ok. I updated server-side uploader while your test was running. I'm surprised you didn't encounter the uploader hang bug
20090903 15:39:05< corn> but it's a good sign
20090903 15:39:34< Ivanovic> fabi: personally i recommend starting the work before commiting
20090903 15:39:36< Ivanovic> ;)
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20090903 15:39:58< fabi> Ivanovic: That is a good recommendation as well :-)
20090903 15:41:01< fabi> Ivanovic: But note: The emacs mode used correctly does discover more errors than the engine itself.
20090903 15:41:02< Crab_> corn: and how many results with "30_aug_2009_..." you're actually got ?
20090903 15:41:09< corn> let me check
20090903 15:42:17< corn> Crab_: 5517
20090903 15:42:30< Crab_> corn: hehe. good enough :)
20090903 15:42:36< corn> how many have run?
20090903 15:42:51< Ivanovic> :(
20090903 15:42:54< Crab_> ~7430
20090903 15:42:59< Ivanovic> http://www.wesnoth.org/wesstats/killmaps_mp results in an internal server error
20090903 15:43:21< Ivanovic> (and the rest has no data)
20090903 15:43:37< corn> Ivanovic: will fix by end of today
20090903 15:43:44< Ivanovic> oaky
20090903 15:43:50< corn> I just did a big update for the site
20090903 15:43:58< corn> so a lot of things broke at the same time
20090903 15:44:26< corn> anyway, got to leave now, be back in 5 hrs
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20090903 15:55:25< Ivanovic> fabi, Crab_, esr: ready for 1.7.5 or is still something missing?
20090903 15:56:02< Crab_> Ivanovic: I'm ready (i.e. all postponed for post-1.7.5)
20090903 15:59:21< Ivanovic> everybody: any blockers for 1.7.5 left?
20090903 16:02:19< fabi> Ivanovic: ready
20090903 16:02:56< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38365 /trunk/po/ (359 files in 23 dirs): 
20090903 16:02:56< CIA-62> pot-update (preparing for 1.7.5)
20090903 16:02:56< CIA-62> regenerated doc files (no changes here)
20090903 16:05:57< fabi> Ivanovic: I believe thespaceinvader and bouncman would like to bring the drake landing animations in before 1.7.5.
20090903 16:07:12< Ivanovic> fabi: what i heard is the the feature is in and thespaceinvader will test with 1.7.5 if it works and add anims
20090903 16:07:21< thespaceinvader> fabi: boucman committed something yesterday, i'm going to be testing it after the release
20090903 16:07:24< Ivanovic> beside this the changelog is *very* incomplete this time
20090903 16:07:26< Ivanovic> shame on you!
20090903 16:07:31< thespaceinvader> the frames are ready already
20090903 16:07:56< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: i've just completed testing on the Blademaster, i'll upload once i've checked the diffs =)
20090903 16:08:21< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: okay
20090903 16:08:25< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38366 /trunk/ (changelog configure.ac players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): 
20090903 16:08:25< CIA-62> extend some changelog entries
20090903 16:08:25< CIA-62> bump version to 1.7.5
20090903 16:08:28< Ivanovic> and don't forget the changelog (run svn up first)
20090903 16:09:48< melinath> thespaceinvader: are base frames for the drake flare line and armageddon expected, oh, today?
20090903 16:09:58< thespaceinvader> melinath: no
20090903 16:10:06< thespaceinvader> i don't know when they're expected
20090903 16:10:10< thespaceinvader> why do you ask?
20090903 16:10:22< melinath> I like having the sprites before I write the desc.
20090903 16:10:55< melinath> Distinguishing features, general feel for the unit.
20090903 16:11:30< thespaceinvader> i know
20090903 16:11:35< thespaceinvader> you'll have to manage
20090903 16:11:38< melinath> yep
20090903 16:11:42< thespaceinvader> equally, those descriptions can wait
20090903 16:11:43< melinath> so it would seem.
20090903 16:12:30< melinath> er... armageddon could perhaps wait, since it's rarely seen
20090903 16:13:15< Ivanovic> lovely, only the drake flare + advancements are left and then all drakes should be done
20090903 16:14:00< Ivanovic> (once thespaceinvader checked the diff and commited the blademaster)
20090903 16:14:17< thespaceinvader> yep
20090903 16:14:24-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090903 16:14:28< thespaceinvader> the remaining three should be done within the month
20090903 16:14:34< Ivanovic> Alesis-Novik: ready for 1.7.5?
20090903 16:14:45< thespaceinvader> i'm just updating muy trunk checkout, bear with me
20090903 16:14:50< alink> hi, release going well ?
20090903 16:14:52< Ivanovic> :)
20090903 16:15:05< Ivanovic> s/Alesis-Novik/alink
20090903 16:15:28< Crab_> hi alink
20090903 16:15:44< Crab_> wesbot: log 38357
20090903 16:15:47< wesbot> crab * r38357 : fixed error in move_leader_to_keep part of ai_default, will get rid of wrong moves being considered, which were reported by 'move_leader_to_keep failed!' messages
20090903 16:15:51< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=38357
20090903 16:15:53< alink> yeah, I suppose, I only did one small safe thing on this one, so...
20090903 16:16:10< Ivanovic> alink: maybe you know anything else that is broken
20090903 16:16:12< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 16:16:50< alink> Ivanovic: if savegames are still fixed and well tested, no
20090903 16:17:03< Crab_> alink: if you have time, please take a look at ai_default::move_leader_to_keep src/ai/default/move.cpp:724
20090903 16:17:09< Ivanovic> uhm, *well tested*?!?
20090903 16:17:22< Ivanovic> for that we got the users of the dev version...
20090903 16:17:22< alink> mmh, i suppose i can add a changelog entry
20090903 16:17:23< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 16:17:43< alink> Crab_: no really time for that now, just checking the release
20090903 16:17:47< Crab_> ok
20090903 16:17:53< Ivanovic> alink: yes, please add a changelog entry!
20090903 16:18:29< alink> Ivanovic: i mean, maybe someone other than me must try savegames, see if it works fine
20090903 16:18:35< thespaceinvader> croley, there have beenn a lot of files updated since yesterday...
20090903 16:18:53< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: uhm, yes
20090903 16:19:22< thespaceinvader> s/croley/crikey
20090903 16:20:00< CIA-62> alink * r38367 /trunk/changelog: add a small entry in our thin changelog
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20090903 16:22:56< alink> Crab_: btw the last pathfinding improvement (O(d^2)->O(d)) seems to help only on 1MP terrains, (the too big difference between 1MP and 2MP prevent to use the same trick there)
20090903 16:23:11< Crab_> alink: still good.
20090903 16:24:55< alink> yeah, esp because fast units (having often 1MP cost, like flying) probably need more often long paths
20090903 16:25:49< alink> Crab_: anyway I go now, bbl and check what you mentionned
20090903 16:26:09< Crab_> alink: ok. ping me and I'll explain the question.
20090903 16:26:34< alink> ok, will do
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20090903 16:30:10< Ivanovic> hi Sirp
20090903 16:34:59< thespaceinvader> finished.  I checked my diffs and i'm as sure as i can be that i didn't make any changes i didn't intend to
20090903 16:36:21< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38368 /trunk/ (45 files in 3 dirs): New Drake Blademaster base frames and animations, remove old frames. Update changelogs.
20090903 16:36:36< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: all yours =0
20090903 16:36:40< thespaceinvader> *=)
20090903 16:37:13< Ivanovic> checking the diffs, just to be 100% sure
20090903 16:37:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 16:37:25< Crab_> got 'HttT: error while playing game: invalid side (7)  found in unit definition'. not reproducable so far
20090903 16:38:01< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: looks good to me
20090903 16:38:07< Ivanovic> Crab_: hmmm, sounds not too good
20090903 16:38:27< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: that was what i thought, but it's nice to have confirmation
20090903 16:38:28< Crab_> Ivanovic: possibly some weird interaction of debug mode and WML of HttT 16. 
20090903 16:39:03< Ivanovic> Crab_: okay, debug mode can have strange effects
20090903 16:39:32-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090903 16:39:51< thespaceinvader> i look forward to getting the animation WML tested and finalised so that i can implement the macros i've been planning and simplify the drakes CFGs
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20090903 16:53:15< Ivanovic> okay, things are looking good
20090903 16:55:08< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38369 /tags/1.7.5/: tagged 1.7.5, using r38368
20090903 16:55:15-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.5 released, announcing "soon" | 1.6.5 planned for Sunday | 83 bugs, 242 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090903 16:55:37< Ivanovic> (that is the upload will take something like 40 more mins, then i will tell the packagers)
20090903 16:56:10< Ivanovic> 250MB tarball (compressed) and 2MB xdelta
20090903 16:56:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.5 released, announcing "soon" | 1.6.5 planned for Sunday | 83 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090903 16:56:49< Ivanovic> esr: feel free to close fixed bugs
20090903 16:58:51< esr> Ivanovic: 4 bugs closed.
20090903 16:58:59< Ivanovic> :)
20090903 16:59:33< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin, loonycyborg, Rhonda: the tag is in svn (if you use svn to build the release binary)
20090903 17:00:07 * crimson_penguin svn up's
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20090903 17:12:01< crimson_penguin> darn it, already 38369
20090903 17:14:17< Ivanovic> :)
20090903 17:14:35< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: noy asked me yesterday when i assumed that the mac binary of 1.7.5 might be ready
20090903 17:14:50< Ivanovic> would probably be nice if you pinged him once you are done uploading
20090903 17:15:15< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: ok
20090903 17:15:49< Ivanovic> (he wants to make some friends playtest and obviously they are on mac)
20090903 17:16:11< crimson_penguin> cool
20090903 17:16:30< Ivanovic> jupp
20090903 17:16:39< crimson_penguin> well, it'll probably take me half an hour or so to package (assuming I don't get distracted by something), and then 3-4 hours to upload
20090903 17:18:08< Ivanovic> i told him that you are normally really fast with packaging some something like 12h after tagging might aleardy be possible
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20090903 17:19:53< crimson_penguin> yeah, that'll probably be the case :)
20090903 17:22:18< crimson_penguin> wee, made my music skip
20090903 17:22:44 * crimson_penguin is compiling on both cores, and also compiling the translations
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20090903 17:27:55< crimson_penguin> it's strange, it seems like Wesnoth somehow got significantly slower to compile in a relatively short amount of time
20090903 17:28:41< crimson_penguin> I remember timing it and getting 8 minutes for the whole thing, but now it seems to take... I don't know, at least 15
20090903 17:31:45< crimson_penguin> maybe I'm using too much ram, or processor doing other things
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20090903 17:44:09< crimson_penguin> compiled
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20090903 18:14:16< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r38370 /branches/1.6/po/ (46 files in 23 dirs): Updated Serbian translation.
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20090903 18:17:08< Ivanovic> re
20090903 18:18:10-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090903 18:19:54< alink> re too
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20090903 18:22:03< crimson_penguin> right when I went to upload, my internet died
20090903 18:22:04< Crab_> alink: So, the question is:  at src/ai/default/move.cpp:742, object of class 'paths' is constructed. This path includes destinations which are occupied by friendly (allied) units. is this normal ?
20090903 18:22:06< crimson_penguin> luckily, it seems to be back
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20090903 18:23:00< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: this time i had to use username,group, too
20090903 18:23:04< alink> Crab_: probably, but i look
20090903 18:23:09< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: probably because you created the folder this time
20090903 18:23:31< crimson_penguin> I created the folder?
20090903 18:23:36< crimson_penguin> maybe loonycyborg did
20090903 18:23:45< crimson_penguin> I started uploading JUST NOW
20090903 18:24:04< Ivanovic> yes, but where do you upload to?
20090903 18:24:11< Ivanovic> into wesnoth-1.7.5, right?
20090903 18:24:15< crimson_penguin> yeah
20090903 18:25:17< alink> Crab_: the paths structure gives all the routes to all the reachable hexes. Even if occupied by a allied units, the hex is still reachable
20090903 18:25:34< alink> so this is normal for paths, but you may check the destination hex manually
20090903 18:25:48< Crab_> ok, thanks. but, what's the purpose of 'ignore_units' parameter, then ?
20090903 18:25:58< alink> (i don't this move_leader_to_keep part)
20090903 18:26:30< alink> Crab_: ignore enemies, mainly used for vision things like fog clearing
20090903 18:26:55< Crab_> ok
20090903 18:27:03< Crab_> thanks
20090903 18:27:12< alink> of if you know that enemy will move anyway. It's also often much faster (not unit map check)
20090903 18:27:18< alink> s/of/or
20090903 18:29:12< Crab_> alink: I'll try to write a 'strategic_movement' AI phase, using existing A* capabilities, to see how it'll work.
20090903 18:30:05< alink> mmh correction, paths is much faster when ignoring ZoC, and simply faster when ignoring units :)
20090903 18:30:15< Crab_> alink: ok
20090903 18:30:59< fendrin> esr: Do you have a savegame to confirm bug https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14218 ?
20090903 18:31:32< alink> Crab_: ok, i have a new cool debug feature allowing me to see what hexes the A* explores. I think it will give me better idea what is expensive or not
20090903 18:32:36< alink> I already suspect that some bad A* call cause heavy hits compared to 'normal' ones, detecting them may be useful
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20090903 18:41:04< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: 1.7.5 windows installer is uploaded.
20090903 18:41:12< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: great
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20090903 18:44:20< Crab_> fendrin: what will be the best way to handle WML side of leader 'move to X' goals ?
20090903 18:44:41< Crab_> fendrin: usage will be like  {AI_LEADER_GOAL_MOVE_TO SIDE X Y}
20090903 18:45:07< Crab_> fendrin: to tell the leader of side SIDE to go to hex X Y (if it's safe enough, that is)
20090903 18:45:46< Crab_> fendrin: the problem is 'what to do when leader reaches X Y ?' should the goal stay ? or should it remove itself ?
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20090903 18:50:22< fendrin> Crab_: Maybe set it to passive_leader=yes ?
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20090903 18:52:05< Crab_> fendrin: no, 'passive leader' is evil )
20090903 18:52:44< Crab_> fendrin: if 'passive_leader' is wanted, it can always be done in a moveto event on reaching said location
20090903 18:53:25< fendrin> Then remove the goal after reaching it. 
20090903 18:53:34< Crab_> fendrin: i.e. "you ordered the leader to move to keep A,B". he arrived. should he stay there on that hex ? or should he be free ?
20090903 18:53:57< Crab_> I like 'remove the goal after reaching it' more, because it's 'fire & forget', thus, easier to use
20090903 18:54:23< zookeeper> and what if you set the goal to a location the leader is already standing on? will he move elsewhere on his next turn or not?
20090903 18:54:51< zookeeper> (sounds to me like better to keep the goal intact since it'd be easy to remove it in a moveto event)
20090903 18:58:45< Crab_> zookeeper: well, the problem with moveto events is that makes it harder to fire&forget it
20090903 18:59:11< Crab_> zookeeper: imagine giving a leader a goal "move to A", then, after 2 turns, another goal "move to B"
20090903 18:59:27< Crab_> zookeeper: how we remove the moveto event accociated with 'move to A' ?
20090903 19:00:18< zookeeper> by not having it be first_time_only=no?
20090903 19:00:35< Crab_> zookeeper: well, what if the leader never reached A in the first place ?
20090903 19:01:21< zookeeper> then you work around it
20090903 19:01:26< Crab_> zookeeper: how ?
20090903 19:01:38< zookeeper> i don't know, i don't know how you'd want it to work
20090903 19:02:01< zookeeper> goto A but in any case goto B after 2 turns?
20090903 19:02:01< Crab_> zookeeper:  I am speaking about your '(sounds to me like better to keep the goal intact since it'd be easy to remove it in a moveto event)'
20090903 19:02:21< Crab_> zookeeper: is there a way to remove a specific moveto event ?
20090903 19:02:24< zookeeper> no
20090903 19:03:32< Crab_> zookeeper: therefore, the WML part will only be used to change the current goal, and 'was the goal reached?' has to be checked not from WML
20090903 19:03:48< zookeeper> frankly i have no idea what you're talking about exactly anymore
20090903 19:04:04< Crab_> ok
20090903 19:04:34< zookeeper> i don't know if it's the [leader_goal] or some new substitute for it or what
20090903 19:05:18< zookeeper> but if it's an engine feature for telling an AI side to move its leader to x,y then i don't think it's a good idea to forget it when it reaches x,y. maybe.
20090903 19:06:27< Crab_> zookeeper: ok, understood.
20090903 19:07:14< Crab_> zookeeper: then, i'll do it as ' engine feature for telling an AI side to move its leader to x,y with optional parameter  "should I forget about the goal once I reach it" '
20090903 19:10:17< zookeeper> yeah, sounds good
20090903 19:10:48< zookeeper> sometimes you just want to tell the AI to "go here and stay there" and sometimes "go there and then do whatever you want"
20090903 19:12:30< zookeeper> so, well, i don't really care which is the default as long as it remains pretty easy to do the other one too
20090903 19:13:05< zookeeper> so to me it sounded like the former would be a better default since otherwise it'd be harder to do, you'd have to mess with passive_leader or something like that
20090903 19:14:41< Crab_> syntax will be something like: {AI_LEADER_GOAL_MOVE_TO SIDE X Y} - move and be free; {AI_LEADER_GOAL_MOVE_TO_AND_STAY_THERE SIDE X Y} - move and stay;  {AI_LEADER_CLEAR_GOAL} - become free;
20090903 19:14:52< Crab_> s/{AI_LEADER_CLEAR_GOAL}/{AI_LEADER_CLEAR_GOAL SIDE}
20090903 19:18:32< crimson_penguin> check out this ancient ping: 64 bytes from 72.232.179.122: icmp_seq=53880 ttl=40 time=397791.683 ms
20090903 19:19:08< Crab_> IPv4 over pigeons :)
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20090903 19:32:30< crimson_penguin> Crab_: it was all the way to Texas from Ontario though, so still a bit faster than pigeons
20090903 19:33:03< crimson_penguin> noy: 2.5 hours until 1.7.5 for Mac is up; assuming my internet doesn't cut out again
20090903 19:33:11< noy> excellent
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20090903 20:57:51< Crab_> zookeeper: is there a WML naming/coding convention for internal-only macroses ? (i.e. those which are not documented and used in utility macroses to avoid code duplication)
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20090903 20:59:25< zookeeper> Crab_, not really
20090903 20:59:34< zookeeper> unless "all uppercase" counts ;)
20090903 20:59:37< Crab_> hehe
20090903 20:59:40< Crab_> zookeeper: ok, thanks
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20090903 21:05:54< Espreon> I don't know what our policy on posts like these: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=381750#p381750 is, but, whatever...
20090903 21:11:53< noy> Espreon: I think the post that needs a policy is the one above it
20090903 21:12:42< Espreon> Uh huh...
20090903 21:12:47< Espreon> ... I see...
20090903 21:12:55< noy> As much as I appreciate the heartfelt statements... wesnoth's forum isn't a social blogging site.
20090903 21:13:16< noy> And posts like that are just so open to abuse.
20090903 21:15:56< noy> People are liable to make fun of him, he might just want to draw attention to himself
20090903 21:16:18< Espreon> Ah, now I understand...
20090903 21:17:19< noy> Its often just better to lock a thread like that before it gets out of control
20090903 21:21:46< Espreon> In that case, I guess that I shall lock it.
20090903 21:22:01< Sirp> noy: ehhh I don't think we need to moderate something like that
20090903 21:22:23< noy> Sirp: threads like that tend to explode in your face
20090903 21:22:24< Sirp> move it to Off Topic if you really want
20090903 21:22:44< noy> I've participated in enough forums to see it happen
20090903 21:25:21< Girgistian> wow. deep stuff.
20090903 21:27:24< zookeeper> err
20090903 21:27:45< zookeeper> that's like the most harmless thread there is
20090903 21:30:26< zookeeper> i don't understand why anyone would prefer a policy where threads which might invite someone to post something stupid are locked instead of deleting or splitting the actual stupid posts
20090903 21:32:31< loonycyborg> Why not just rm -rf that smilie-only post and scold its author through PM? :P
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20090903 21:36:15< zookeeper> but yes, there seems to be a lot of threads in user's forum these days that'd belong in off-topic :|
20090903 21:36:22 * zookeeper hates the hurt and heal threads
20090903 21:45:22< Sirp> zookeeper: they really are a little ridiculous, aren't they? :)
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20090903 21:59:40< CIA-62> esr * r38371 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Guard against a crash bug.
20090903 22:01:15< Crab_> esr: does wmllint expand WML macroses ?
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20090903 22:38:28< crimson_penguin> jeez, just missed noy; the Mac dmg is up
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20090903 22:55:34< boucman> hey all
20090903 22:55:40< Crab_> hello, boucman
20090903 22:58:06< Ivanovic> hi boucman
20090903 23:01:32< fendrin> hi
20090903 23:01:54< Espreon> Hello boucman.
20090903 23:06:36< fendrin> esr: ping
20090903 23:10:46< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38372 /trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Add and wire new Merman Spearman portrait, update changelogs, portrait credits.
20090903 23:11:15< esr> fendrin: What's up?
20090903 23:11:45< esr> Crab_: It does not.  This is a deliberate design choice.
20090903 23:11:56< Crab_> esr: ok, thanks.
20090903 23:13:37< Ivanovic> what do you think, is "Uhm, no." an appropriate reply? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26929&start=0
20090903 23:15:34< boucman> Ivanovic: as far as the answer, I agree
20090903 23:16:03< boucman> as far as the formulation... I think you should do a long, detailed answer about why the ladder is not official, and add it to the FPI thread
20090903 23:16:30< Ivanovic> boucman: uhm, no
20090903 23:16:31< Ivanovic> ;)
20090903 23:16:36< boucman> :P
20090903 23:19:57< Ivanovic> boucman, Sirp: i guess you got no idea where DK vanished to either, right?
20090903 23:20:08< boucman> nope...
20090903 23:20:17< boucman> did he not fill in his final survey ?
20090903 23:20:26< Ivanovic> (somehow i am still looking forward to seeing some short summary about SoC from him before posting some wrap up post in the forums)
20090903 23:20:33< Ivanovic> oh, he filled out everything just fine
20090903 23:20:38< boucman> k
20090903 23:21:07< Ivanovic> now he (as well as all the others) just has to send in his code samples and SoC is officially done for him (that is he has of course to wait for the tshirt and the certificate)
20090903 23:21:14< thespaceinvader> kitty_: how would you feel about updating the set of front page portraits to include some of the fruits of WSAs?
20090903 23:21:36< kitty_> I wanted to do that when WSAS is over
20090903 23:21:58< kitty_> but if you already have candidates - name them :)
20090903 23:22:37< fendrin> esr: Northern Rebirth is your domain? I have found a story intro that shows scaled images. The potrait directress told me to remove all scalling. I also added the name of the speakers by using the {CAPTION} macro. Do you allow me to commit the change?
20090903 23:23:00< thespaceinvader> i had a few suggestions from a user... but i've forgotten which ones he mentioned now
20090903 23:23:14< kitty_> just forwad me the pm?
20090903 23:23:26< thespaceinvader> discussed it on IRC, forgot to log >.<
20090903 23:24:06< thespaceinvader> however, i'd certainly say some outlaws, a couple of mers (the spearman, definitely), and a few more loys, maybe the Dwarf Explorer, too
20090903 23:24:25< kitty_> and the new loys...
20090903 23:24:29< thespaceinvader> maybe the Troll, maybe one of the goblins
20090903 23:24:46< thespaceinvader>  spearman, definitely), *and a few more loys, * :P
20090903 23:24:47< esr> fendrin: Go ahead.
20090903 23:24:59< kitty_> I'll need to revise the troll first, he'll get a new club
20090903 23:25:18< thespaceinvader> ah ok
20090903 23:25:58< thespaceinvader> i'll take a look over the directory again and come up with a list, give me a moment or two...
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20090903 23:29:02< thespaceinvader> mers: spearman, fighter, priestess.  Outlaws: bandit, outlaw+female, ranger.  Loys: Master at arms... and that's probably it, i don't think there's room for horses... Goblins: spearman and pillager
20090903 23:29:09< thespaceinvader> i think that's about it kitty_ 
20090903 23:29:17< thespaceinvader> for my money, anyway
20090903 23:29:29< kitty_> your explorer?
20090903 23:29:39< thespaceinvader> oop yeah, that too
20090903 23:29:54< thespaceinvader> mers: spearman, fighter, priestess. Outlaws: bandit, outlaw+female, ranger. Loys: Master at arms... and that's probably it, i don't think there's room for horses... Goblins: spearman and pillager, dwarf explorer
20090903 23:30:05< kitty_> after wsas then...
20090903 23:30:28< thespaceinvader> sound like a good list to you?  i understand soliton said he'd take care of it if we gave him a list
20090903 23:30:53< CIA-62> fendrin * r38373 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/03_To_The_Mines.cfg: 
20090903 23:30:53< CIA-62> NR 03: Unscalled all portraits used as story backgrounds.
20090903 23:30:53< CIA-62> Added the captioned name of the speaker to the text.
20090903 23:30:53< CIA-62> Added "note={NO_EARLY_FINISH_BONUS_NOTE}" to the objectives tag.
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20090903 23:31:22< fendrin> esr: Is there more fullscreen speech in that campaign?
20090903 23:31:30< kitty_> thespaceinvader: apart from the gobbo spearman, I agree with the list
20090903 23:32:08< esr> fendrin: Thinking...
20090903 23:32:28< esr> I don't believe there is, no.
20090903 23:34:08< thespaceinvader> ok kitty_  - we ought to add at least one of the new skels, too - i was thinking the deathblade
20090903 23:34:31< thespaceinvader> mers: spearman, fighter, priestess. Outlaws: bandit, outlaw+female, ranger. Loys: Master at arms... and that's probably it, i don't think there's room for horses... Goblin pillager, dwarf explorer, deathblade
20090903 23:34:35< thespaceinvader> i call this finalised, i think
20090903 23:35:03< fendrin> esr: I am going to make more changes to the code, with your permission.
20090903 23:35:33< kitty_> thespaceinvader: yep
20090903 23:36:00< esr> fendrin: What sorts of things?  I consider you trustworthy, but I am curious.
20090903 23:36:54< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: yes, I was ready.
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20090903 23:39:21< fendrin> esr: I will add a note={EARLY_FINISH_BONUS_NOTE} or a note={NO_EARLY_FINISH_BONUS_NOTE} to every scenario objectives.
20090903 23:39:41< esr> fendrin: A good thing.
20090903 23:40:05< fendrin> esr: And NO_GOLD_CARRIOVER_NOTE 
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20090903 23:43:43< fendrin> esr: What is all this a b thing with the scenarios? Does this campaign have 2 storylines that can be crossed over?
20090903 23:44:39< esr> fendrin: Yes, but one is incomplete and the entry to it has been disabled.
20090903 23:45:05< esr> It's a storyline in whivch Tallin is ensorcelled by Malifor and turns evil.
20090903 23:45:34< esr> Taurus never found a good ending for it.  This is because there are issues with the prenise.
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20090903 23:50:12< fendrin> esr: Scenario 08a elvish princess is more complicated. Currently it says turns run out means the player has lost. But the code tells me that leads to an alternative scenario with no early finishing bonus. Shall I change the objectives and tell that to the player?
20090903 23:50:35< esr> Looking....
20090903 23:50:42< fendrin> This selection seems to be not disabled.
20090903 23:52:15< esr> fendrin: Yes, make that change.
20090903 23:52:33< fendrin> esr: okay
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20090903 23:53:46< esr> The design of the "Evil Tallinn" scenarios is actually pretty good, but it's hard to have any kind of happy or climactic ending when your character has chodsen evil.  DiD avoided the problem with a trick we can't really repeat.
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 04 00:00:56 2009