--- Log opened Mon Sep 07 00:00:02 2009
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20090907 00:01:47< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090907 00:14:59< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: dmg is up
20090907 00:16:22< CIA-62> grzywacz * r38463 /trunk/src/ (soundsource.cpp soundsource.hpp): First cut at adding check_shrouded= support to sound sources.
20090907 00:16:29< CIA-62> grzywacz * r38464 /trunk/changelog: Added a changelog entry for my previous commit.
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20090907 00:28:20< fendrin> Anyone around that can help me with some c++ coding?
20090907 00:28:25< fendrin> s/that/who
20090907 00:28:33< Crab_> fendrin: what do you need ?
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20090907 00:29:08< fendrin> Crab_: I want to implement x= and y= in [side] that override the starting coordinates of the leader read from the map.
20090907 00:31:50< Crab_> ok, I can try to do it
20090907 00:32:40< Crab_> fendrin: are you sure that this is not the case atm ?
20090907 00:33:23< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, tried it with trunk. It's only working with no_leader=yes and [unit] x= y=
20090907 00:33:51< Crab_> fendrin: can you give me a testcase of the code that should work ?
20090907 00:34:04< fendrin> yes, I will commit low 1 any moment.
20090907 00:34:19< Crab_> fendrin: ok, do so
20090907 00:36:03< CIA-62> fendrin * r38465 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: LoW 01: Testcase for x,y= in [side]
20090907 00:37:23< CIA-62> fendrin * r38466 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: LoW 01: Removed no_leader=yes
20090907 00:38:46< fendrin> Crab_: ^
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20090907 00:41:15< eyerouge> A quickie: Is "The Battle for Wesnoth", the title itself, considered as protected or a part of the GPL? Tried to find info about it in the forum but didn't manage to do a decent search. =  /  What I'm wondering specifically is if it would be okey for somebody to create a brand new game (not using Wesnoth code, but still releasing using GPL) and call it "Battle for Wesnoth - Heretic"  or whatever that contained "
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20090907 00:45:20< loonycyborg> There already are other games with Wesnoth in their name :P
20090907 00:45:44< loonycyborg> http://gna.org/search/?words=wesnoth&type_of_search=soft&Search=Search&exact=1#options
20090907 00:46:29< eyerouge2> loonycyborg: Yes, I'm aware of that. However, it doesn't answer my question really. =  /   ...is it legal? I also wondered about the whole name, and making an addition to it, like in the example: Battle for Wesnoth - Heretics
20090907 00:47:01< eyerouge2> loonycyborg: Just using "Wesnoth" is probably in order, but using the whole title could be a totally different thing depending on how it's setup.
20090907 00:47:06< loonycyborg> Probably it's legal. Wesnoth isn't trademarked..
20090907 00:48:13< eyerouge2> loonycyborg: Maybe so, but it would be cool to know the developers stance in the question, especially if somebody planned on actually using it and if they cared about this community.
20090907 00:48:33< CIA-62> crab * r38467 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: make x= y= in [side] override leader's starting position
20090907 00:48:44< Crab_> fendrin: ^ 10 seconds to fix, 10 minutes to compile... 
20090907 00:49:26< Crab_> fendrin: someone tried to implement this before, but failed a bit. 
20090907 00:49:45< fendrin> Crab_: Another request: If x= and y= are missing in a [unit] it shall be spawned next to the leader like if it was [recall]ed.
20090907 00:51:26< Crab_> ok
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20090907 00:51:39< loonycyborg> eyerouge2: Why do you want to reuse the name?
20090907 00:52:42< fendrin> He wants to be faster with World of Wesnoth than Crab_ and euschn. :-)
20090907 00:52:44< Crab_> fendrin: but not 'like it was recalled', just 'spawned next' to it (as in find_vacant=yes)
20090907 00:53:01< fendrin> Crab_: Right.
20090907 00:53:06< eyerouge2> loonycyborg: Why would it matter why somebody wanted to? Say it happens. Say, for the sake of funnyness, that Blizzard decides to release a cool game called Battle for Wesnoth - Heretics. Would it be perfetcly legal? That't the only thing I want to know.
20090907 00:53:49< fendrin> Crab_: But it should be recalled if a unit with the same id is in the recall list of the side. But that maybe better to leave for euschn.
20090907 00:55:27< loonycyborg> As I've already said that's probably legal, but you've asked what's the developer's stance on it, and it probably depends on what you want to do with the name :P
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20090907 00:55:41< eyerouge2> loonycyborg:  =)
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20090907 00:56:35< eyerouge2> loonycyborg:  Yeah, ofc, I'd understand it if the developers didn't (or did?) like it if somebody made a pornmovie called "Battle for Wesnoth - The Hard Sword" or whatever...
20090907 00:57:31< fendrin> secrets of the sylphs
20090907 00:57:38< eyerouge2> lool
20090907 00:57:53< Crab_> fendrin: problem: atm, [side][unit]s with x= and y= are missing are inserted into team recall list. so, the change you're proposing will break existing UML.
20090907 00:58:14< Crab_> fendrin: proposed solution: add a new find_vacant="yes" attribute to [side][unit]
20090907 00:58:29< Crab_> s/UML/WML
20090907 00:59:03 * shadowmaster raises eyebrow
20090907 00:59:26< fendrin> Crab_: we have x,y=recall,recall for that purpose.
20090907 01:00:34< fendrin> Crab_: or just implement find_vacant=yes that does the trick.
20090907 01:01:55< Crab_> fendrin: wiki says: 'x, y: the location of the unit. If a location isn't provided and the side the unit will belong to has a recall list, the unit will be created on the recall list. '
20090907 01:03:01< fendrin> Crab_: Right, that shouldn't be changed then. 
20090907 01:03:12< Crab_> fendrin: so, I'll implement it via find_vacant="yes"
20090907 01:03:16< fendrin> Crab_: cool
20090907 01:04:53< fendrin> Crab_: That features will remove tons of hacky workarounds in LoW.
20090907 01:06:47< Crab_> find_vacant: bool, default to "no", works only in [side][unit]
20090907 01:06:48< Crab_> if find_vacant="yes" and x,y is not provided, spawn unit in a nearest vacant hex to a leader. (if no leader on map - nearest vacant hex next to start position)
20090907 01:06:48< Crab_> if find_vacant="yes" and x,y is valid location,  spawn unit in a nearest vacant hex to that location.
20090907 01:07:37< Crab_> is such semantics appropriate ?
20090907 01:10:11< fendrin> yes
20090907 01:10:16< Crab_> ok
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20090907 01:13:37< Crab_> code comments like '// This is rather a quick hack, originating from keeping changes as minimal as possible for 1.2'  are entertaining to read
20090907 01:13:51< fendrin> :-)
20090907 01:15:43< shadowmaster> um, I wonder what will happen if I fgrep -RIi todo src/
20090907 01:15:57< shadowmaster> or 'fixme' instead of 'todo'..
20090907 01:16:40< Crab_> shadowmaster: a more entertaining thing is to do a fgrep for todos on 'svn blame' results
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20090907 01:17:54< shadowmaster> eh, I guess that one can make Konsole's backlog blow up the virtual memory here, if it's actually "infinite" as it claims to be ^^
20090907 01:18:00< Crab_> shadowmaster: there's a todo from 2003, afair...
20090907 01:18:14< shadowmaster> although I was thinking of git log -p rather
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20090907 01:21:52< CIA-62> fendrin * r38468 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: LoW 01: Test case for find_vacant=yes inside the [unit] tag.
20090907 01:21:56< fendrin> Crab_: ^
20090907 01:21:59< Crab_> thanks
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20090907 01:38:26< Crab_> fendrin: can you prepare a test case with 'recall unit by id', as well ?
20090907 01:38:58< fendrin> Crab_: At scenario start?
20090907 01:39:13< Crab_> fendrin: yes
20090907 01:39:43< fendrin> Crab_: LoW 7
20090907 01:40:12< Crab_> fendrin: if I just :cl 7, will the recall list be properly populated ?
20090907 01:40:41< fendrin> Crab_: Wait, what testcase? For [side] [unid] id=Landar ? 
20090907 01:40:45< Crab_> fendrin: yes
20090907 01:40:58< fendrin> Okay, I have already converted scenario 1-3
20090907 01:41:02< fendrin> let my commt.
20090907 01:42:21< CIA-62> fendrin * r38469 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/02_Hostile_mountains.cfg: Test case for recalling Landar by id from a [side] [unit] id=Landar situation.
20090907 01:42:49< fendrin> Crab_: ^
20090907 01:42:56< Crab_> thanks
20090907 01:49:03< Crab_> fendrin: note that find_vacant won't work for side leader (his start position is determined differently)
20090907 01:49:56< fendrin> Crab_: Right, that shouldn't be a problem.
20090907 01:51:07< CIA-62> crab * r38470 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: Added find_vacant attribute to [side][unit]
20090907 01:51:11< Crab_> fendrin: ^
20090907 01:51:24< fendrin> Crab_: Does it already recall?
20090907 01:51:30< Crab_> fendrin: not yet
20090907 01:51:39< fendrin> okay
20090907 01:51:47< fendrin> Crab_: Going to test it right now.
20090907 01:55:44< CIA-62> grzywacz * r38471 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Implemented FR #14246 (visible_in_shroud= for [label]).
20090907 01:57:20< Crab_> fendrin: also note that (at least now) I'll implement 'recall by id' with a specific 'feature' - esoteric construction like [unit]id=foo find_vacant=yes[/unit] [unit]id=foo[/unit] will not work
20090907 01:57:48< fendrin> ?
20090907 01:58:04< Crab_> fendrin: [unit]id=foo[/unit] puts unit into recall list
20090907 01:58:55< Crab_> fendrin: so, [unit]id=foo find_vacant=yes[/unit] [unit]id=foo[/unit] can be interpreted as "[unit]id=foo[/unit]" - put unit with id=foo in the recall list + " [unit]id=foo find_vacant=yes[/unit] " - recall it from that recall list on vacant hex.
20090907 01:59:17< Crab_> fendrin: and this won't work.
20090907 01:59:37< fendrin> Crab_: I see. 
20090907 01:59:47< Crab_> fendrin: although I seriously doubt that anyone would need such things.
20090907 01:59:55< fendrin> yes
20090907 02:00:42< Crab_> fendrin: parsing them require 'two' passes over [unit]'s, not one, which is somewhat more time-consuming, if the number of units is large
20090907 02:00:59< Crab_> fendrin:  [unit]id=foo[/unit]  [unit]id=foo find_vacant=yes[/unit]  will work, through
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20090907 02:04:58< Crab_> fendrin: also note that  [unit]id=foo[/unit] will do nothing if 'id=foo' is already present in recall list
20090907 02:05:23< Crab_> fendrin: since it means 'take a unit from recall list and put it in recall list again'
20090907 02:06:10< fendrin> Crab_: I think that this behaviour is quite unproblematic.
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20090907 02:06:43< Crab_> fendrin: yes. i'm just stating the behavior in the 'corner cases'
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20090907 02:11:06< Crab_> fendrin: also note that this is not a recall. so, no recall events are being fired.
20090907 02:11:57< fendrin> Crab_: That might be a problem.
20090907 02:12:46< Crab_> fendrin: the problem is that it's somewhat too early to fire events at this point - it's team construction
20090907 02:13:15< Crab_> fendrin: why this might be a problem ?
20090907 02:13:43< fendrin> Crab_: Well, it's not a problem how it is used in LoW.
20090907 02:13:55< Crab_> fendrin: well, it's not used anywhere yet
20090907 02:14:07< fendrin> right
20090907 02:14:10< Crab_> fendrin: imagine a unit with id=foo in [side][unit]
20090907 02:14:50< Crab_> fendrin: if there's a unit in recall list with id=foo, then, atm, WML author is violating the rule stated in the wiki as "id: a unique identifier for the unit."
20090907 02:15:18< Crab_> fendrin: so, he's in undocumented waters :)
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20090907 02:15:51< fendrin> hmmm
20090907 02:16:08< Crab_> fendrin: so, there's nothing to break.
20090907 02:19:57< Crab_> fendrin: and, the units in [side][unit]'s do not appear during the game - they are always 'on the map', from the very beginning. 
20090907 02:20:06< fendrin> Crab_: I started LoW. did some fighting so I can see what happens to the xp (so I can see what units are recalled and which are new ones). Switched to scenario 2. Now I have 4xLandar 2xAndulias and 1xKalenz.
20090907 02:20:49< Crab_> (02:51:20 AM) fendrin: Crab_: Does it already recall?
20090907 02:20:49< Crab_> (02:51:26 AM) Crab_: fendrin: not yet
20090907 02:22:25< fendrin> Crab_: Okay, but Andulias has nothing todo with this. He is recalled the normal way. He shouldn't have doubled.
20090907 02:23:30< Crab_> fendrin: I've seen this behavior before (with elven scout)
20090907 02:23:35< Crab_> fendrin: I'll see if I can reproduce
20090907 02:23:56< Crab_> fendrin: any check-for-debug-mode macros active ?
20090907 02:24:15< fendrin> no
20090907 02:29:58< Crab_> fendrin: if you're still in that duplicated scenario, can you execute formula ai formula:  tomap(map(my_units,self.id),map(my_units,self.loc))    ?
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20090907 02:30:43< Crab_> or, better, the other way around  tomap(map(my_units,self.loc),map(my_units,self.id))
20090907 02:30:55< Crab_> are unit id's duplicated ?
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20090907 02:32:30< fendrin> Crab_: How can I bring up the formula console?
20090907 02:32:34< Crab_> f
20090907 02:32:38< Crab_> (in debug mode)
20090907 02:34:23< fendrin> Crab_: How can I read the output?
20090907 02:34:36< Crab_> it is displayed as a msg
20090907 02:34:41< fendrin> sure
20090907 02:34:46< fendrin> but what does it tell me?
20090907 02:34:56< Crab_> are unit id's duplicated ?
20090907 02:35:05< Crab_> it's a map, unit location => unit id
20090907 02:35:10< fendrin> yes, the clones all share the same unit id.
20090907 02:35:14< Crab_> thanks
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20090907 02:37:07< Crab_> fendrin: ok, will fix now, then...
20090907 02:40:40< Crab_> fendrin: LoW 2 has:   [event]   name=prestart {RECALL_LOYALS}
20090907 02:41:14< fendrin> Crab_: right. That is to recall Andulias
20090907 02:41:20< Crab_> ok
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20090907 02:43:04< fendrin> Crab_: It will recall landar as well since he is loyal too. so landar should be doubled and andulias only a single.
20090907 02:43:33< Crab_> fendrin: note that gamestate_inspector can be used as a [inspect] wml tag, as well
20090907 02:45:01< fendrin> ?
20090907 02:45:32< Crab_> fendrin: launch tutorial, and move to the hex labeled gamestate inspector. it will pop up
20090907 02:45:51< Crab_> fendrin: so, it's possible to see the state of the variables during a specific point of an event
20090907 02:46:04< Crab_> s/tutorial/test scenario
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20090907 02:49:31< fendrin> nice
20090907 02:50:17< Crab_> fendrin: note the [inspect] 'name' attribute - it allows to find out which of the [inspect] tags fired
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20090907 03:01:56< fendrin> Crab_: I have to catch some sleep, see you tomorrow.
20090907 03:02:01< Crab_> ok
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20090907 03:21:27< CIA-62> crab * r38472 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: if there is a [side][unit]id=foo , and unit with id=foo is in recall list, recall it instead of using the config given in [side][unit]
20090907 03:21:58< Crab_> fendrin: ^ 1) in LoW 2, Landar is doubled due to {RECALL_LOYALS} macro.
20090907 03:22:58< Crab_> fendrin: 2) the issue with additional doubling is fixed. report it if still happens when starting a new campaign and venturing to LoW 2
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20090907 03:24:47< Crab_> fendrin: 3) there is unsolved problem, if you wish to use [side][unit]id=foo for units which have died previously in the campaign. we need a documented way to mark the unit as 'don't place me on map if I'm not in recall list' - e.g. a mandatory attribute that must be given, such as unit type, etc'
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20090907 04:25:32< ancestral> Mage XP changing anytime soon?
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20090907 04:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 89 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090907 05:38:33< ancestral> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26979
20090907 05:38:44< ancestral> I love my mom too
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20090907 05:47:37 * crimson_penguin would do something about it if he knew how better, and if PhpBB didn't suck so much, and if he weren't about to go to bed
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20090907 08:16:33< CIA-62> jetryl * r38473 /trunk/data/core/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Added new images for the chocobone (temporarily unanimated).
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20090907 08:42:45< CIA-62> jetryl * r38474 /trunk/data/core/ (14 files in 2 dirs): Added an improved version of the dwarf fighter hammer attack animation, and touched up the feet on the base frame.
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20090907 09:28:12< euschn> fendrin: i see Crab_ added a find_vacant key to [unit]. does that completely sort your request of units in [side][unit] being recalled instead of created?
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20090907 09:54:58< CIA-62> euschn * r38475 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: small change/typo fix to error messages on unstore_unit
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20090907 09:57:49< YogiHH> hello
20090907 10:05:01< fendrin> hi euschn
20090907 10:05:06< fendrin> hi YogiHH
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20090907 10:26:07< euschn> fendrin: i see Crab_ added a find_vacant key to [unit]. does that completely sort your request of units in [side][unit] being recalled instead of created?
20090907 10:30:48< fendrin> euschn: Right, but it's still not working. If you start LoW, and skip to the second scenario Landar is doubled. He is created new (without xp) and recalled by a normal [recall] that filters for loyal units.
20090907 10:32:00< fendrin> I assume the [side] [unit] does create it from scratch, so it is not removed from the recall list and so recalled by the {RECALL_LOYALS} macro.
20090907 10:34:57< euschn> fendrin: i see, could reproduce
20090907 10:36:27< fendrin> euschn: Is there the possibility to recall or [store_unit] from a recall list that is not bound to a side in the scenario?
20090907 10:37:11< euschn> fendrin: can you give an example for that?
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20090907 10:41:30< ilor> 'code sample' uploaded to google, and I'll be away during this week
20090907 10:41:58< fendrin> Low scenario 7. Olurf's side is persistent but I don't want to create an empty side for him until he appears since he joins kalenz in that scenario and doesn't need his own side just for leaving it immediately.
20090907 10:42:21< ilor> Ivanovic, mordante: ^^ relevant to your interests
20090907 10:43:54< Rhonda> Soliton: Please /upgrade in irssi on the server.
20090907 10:45:59< Rhonda> And what's this wmlunits script running with 368 minutes cpu time? :)
20090907 10:46:40< fendrin> Rhonda: maybe it creates units.wesnoth.org ?
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20090907 10:49:09< Rhonda> fendrin: Maybe - but that's extremely long runtime ...  not sure if that's something expected.
20090907 10:49:42< Rhonda> I mean, it's reniced (maybe ionicing it would also be a good idea), but ...
20090907 10:50:13< fendrin> Rhonda: ionicing?
20090907 10:50:30< Rhonda> Oh, wait, ionice doesn't work on the server. BECAUSE IT USES THAT RETARDED HOSTING PROVIDER KERNEL!  *fsck*
20090907 10:50:43< Rhonda> fendrin: disk i/o scheduler
20090907 10:51:44< fendrin> Rhonda: It is nice for disc load?
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20090907 10:57:32< Rhonda> fendrin: That's the idea, yes.
20090907 10:58:27< Ivanovic> moin
20090907 11:09:15< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Whom to query about the kernel for the host? I really would love to run the system with either a stock kernel, or rather be able to receive the source they used to bake that kernel. The latter is a GPL violation somehow anyway.
20090907 11:09:40< Ivanovic> Rhonda: submit a support request to olm
20090907 11:09:49< Ivanovic> you should have all data available
20090907 11:10:02< Rhonda> I should, will try to dig them out.
20090907 11:14:58< Ivanovic> deekay, corn: you still have to submit your code sample to google
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20090907 11:15:26< Ivanovic> how to do so: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/how-to-provide-google-with-sample-code
20090907 11:15:44< Ivanovic> the url to the wesnoth page is linked quite close to the bottom of that site
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20090907 11:29:24< fendrin> euschn: Does this bug belong in your area? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14218
20090907 11:30:20< euschn> fendrin: i saw it earlier today, could not reproduce it with the suppleid savegame, though
20090907 11:30:52< euschn> on the forum post, he makes a valid point on the error message, i changed that one
20090907 11:32:04< Ivanovic> fendrin: the ' in Elves'_Last_Stand seems to become *really* annoying... https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14256
20090907 11:32:23< Ivanovic> without the error message spelled out this post is unusable since the attachments are not working
20090907 11:32:24< Ivanovic> *argh*
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20090907 11:41:47< fendrin> Ivanovic: Right, the "'" is realy a problem.
20090907 11:45:30< fendrin> Ivanovic: I have posted a comment that asks for new files.
20090907 11:51:24< corn> Ivanovic: can I do it on tuesday?
20090907 11:52:35< corn> I already generated diffs on my dev box, but I'm not home right now
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20090907 11:55:53< Ivanovic> corn: of course
20090907 11:56:04< Ivanovic> just make sure that they got the stuff before Monday, 14 September 2009: 19:00 UTC (12:00 noon Pacific Time)
20090907 11:56:19< Ivanovic> reason:   "Soft" deadline for student code sample submission. What this means: if you get us your code sample by this "soft deadline," you will be in the first round of t-shirts to be shipped. Otherwise you'll need to wait until we have time to do one offs.
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20090907 12:08:13< Soliton> Rhonda: yes, wmlunits creates units.wesnoth.org and it is expected that it takes ages.
--- Log closed Mon Sep 07 12:10:38 2009
--- Log opened Mon Sep 07 12:10:38 2009
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20090907 12:10:44-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20090907 12:11:09< Soliton> Rhonda: /upgrade done.
20090907 12:11:23< Rhonda> Does it use a lockfile? So that it doesn't start again when there is already one running?
20090907 12:11:26< euschn> fendrin: I had a look at the scenariostart save for the LOW-02 (after using :cl), this is weird: landar and anduillas show up twice, once in [side] and once in [side][unit]id=Kalenz
20090907 12:11:46< euschn> could this have anything to do with the changes Crab make yesterday?
20090907 12:12:00< Soliton> Rhonda: nope. i hope it won't run for 24 hours. :-)
20090907 12:12:08-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 90 secs
20090907 12:12:15< Rhonda> ... :)
20090907 12:12:29< euschn> fendrin: hm, this happens even if I dont use find_vacant
20090907 12:17:06< fendrin> euschn: If you specify x,y it is placed there on the map. If find_vacant=no and no x,y is set it is put to the recall list.
20090907 12:17:48< fendrin> euschn: I am sure that the change by crab is causing the diplication.
20090907 12:19:45< euschn> fendrin: so find_vacant=yes without x,y being set does not make sense?
20090907 12:21:49< fendrin> euschn: find_vacant=yes without x,y will place the unit to a vacant hex near the leader. 
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20090907 12:22:25< euschn> i see
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20090907 12:31:55< Crab_> hi
20090907 12:34:07< fendrin> hi Crab_
20090907 12:36:39< Ivanovic> hi Crab_
20090907 12:36:45< Crab_> hi Ivanovic, fendrin
20090907 12:37:04< Ivanovic> Crab_: this one is probably for you, though ATM it is not usable (damn '...) https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14256
20090907 12:37:29< Crab_> ok
20090907 12:50:14< Crab_> euschn: have you fixed the bug which was uncovered by me today's night ?
20090907 12:50:21< Crab_> euschn: the one in scenariostart_savegame::before_save()
20090907 12:52:05< Soliton> fendrin: in low:23 landar is back to a level 1 archer. i can see [landar] in the inspector with the correct WML though.
20090907 12:53:06< euschn> Crab_: not yet, can you specify it? i guess its related to the addition of find_vacant you added?
20090907 12:53:10< Crab_> euschn: no
20090907 12:53:21< Crab_> it's not my changes that are causing the duplication. I changed the 'new or load game' code, and the bug is in 'save game' code
20090907 12:53:59< Crab_> euschn: start-of-scenario save of LoW 2 already contains 2 Landar's
20090907 12:54:28< fendrin> Soliton: Thank you. I am redoing the whole campaign's recruit list handling now.
20090907 12:54:37< Crab_> euschn: so, my find_vacant="yes" correctly recall+remove one of them, but the other one remains and is picked up by a recall prestart macro
20090907 12:54:51< Soliton> fendrin: also, is it intended that while Anduilas and the loyal scout (which is not auto recalled in low:23) stay with kalenz other loyal units go with landar?
20090907 12:55:04< Crab_> euschn: look at LoW 1
20090907 12:55:32< Crab_> euschn: it seems that that L1 landar which is specified in [side] is saved into start-of-scenario save
20090907 12:55:35< euschn> Crab_: yes, I noticed that. it does not occur in r38466 though, which is before your change
20090907 12:56:01< Crab_> euschn: for extra effect, start LoW, levelup landar to level 2 (:unit advances=2), and go to LoW 2
20090907 12:56:13< Crab_> euschn: you'll see L2 Landar and L1 Landar
20090907 12:56:20< euschn> mhm
20090907 12:56:29< Crab_> euschn: so, the error, which was uncovered by my changes, is in the *save* code
20090907 12:56:49< euschn> I will look into it
20090907 12:56:50< fendrin> Soliton: Anduilas is supposed to be with Landar. The rest is a coincident because the units are divided by a random algo.
20090907 12:56:54< Crab_> s/L2/L3
20090907 12:57:17< Crab_> fendrin: note that you can use a slightly different algoritm to divide forces
20090907 12:57:21< Soliton> fendrin: well, he isn't, he is with Kalenz.
20090907 12:57:41< fendrin> Soliton: Sorry, I meant Kalenz.
20090907 12:57:44< Crab_> fendrin: you can mark all units which destroyed at least one saurian village with a 'with landar' mark
20090907 12:57:59< Soliton> i'd think it'd make more sense to have the loyal units stay with Kalent.
20090907 12:58:15< Crab_> fendrin: so, Landar will get, say, 1/3 of forces + all marked units; Kalenz will get the rest
20090907 12:58:25< fendrin> Soliton: This a my feelings as well. It's on my TODO list.
20090907 12:59:02< fendrin> Crab_: You can in theorie destroy all villages with a single unit.
20090907 12:59:06< Soliton> Crab_: so players will make sure to take villages with as few and weak units as possible. ;-)
20090907 12:59:21< Crab_> fendrin: 1) how did they know that this is the case ?
20090907 12:59:50< Crab_> fendrin: 2) it makes sense from Kalenz point of view - to involve as few units as possible in the dirty job
20090907 13:00:07< fendrin> Crab_: It's pointless if you don't tell it to the user.
20090907 13:00:10< Soliton> even better let the villages be taken by units you let die later.
20090907 13:00:53< Soliton> it's not far fetched that the player will take villages with new recruits.
20090907 13:02:43< Soliton> at least i went with fighter spam in that scenario and surely took many of the villages with them.
20090907 13:03:56< Crab_> fendrin: well, the Landar-Kalenz dialog at the first village taken already hints this.
20090907 13:04:22< Crab_> fendrin: you don't the the user that 'half of your troops will be with landar soon', too
20090907 13:06:01< Crab_> fendrin: A:"But...to kill their young? Are we to go that far?" K: "Stay. You need not have the blood of children on your hands, and I shall not." - L: "Perhaps you are too tender-minded to do what must be done, but many of us are not." - K: "I will not set elf against elf. But, Landar, I fear you are storing up a dreadful price for yourself."
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20090907 13:07:11< Crab_> fendrin: so, Kalenz is explicitly instructing his loyal Anduilas to not do it. Landar is instructing the elves otherwise.
20090907 13:07:46< Crab_> fendrin: so, as from the story PoV, it makes perfect sense to note which order the units followed here.
20090907 13:07:57< YogiHH> euschn: there used to be [unit]-tags below the leader unit. They appeared within the root level player tag iirc. Maybe that helps you.
20090907 13:09:06< euschn> YogiHH: thats exactly the case with this bug. the unit in question appears twice, once in [side] (as it should) and once inside the leaders [unit] tag
20090907 13:10:12< YogiHH> euschn: Yes. Unfortunately i can't tell you where that is introduced. If you find out, i'd say we only keep the [side]-units.
20090907 13:10:27< euschn> agreed
20090907 13:10:56< Crab_> fendrin: i'm not saying 'base all division on it', i'm saying 'base a subset of division on it'
20090907 13:12:47< fendrin> Crab_: There are many villages in that scenario. If the player takes all of them with a different lvl3 unit...
20090907 13:13:05< Crab_> fendrin: then he's screwed a bit, yes
20090907 13:14:27< fendrin> Crab_: The player won't be happy to go 3 scenarios back to correct his failure if he can't beat Landar in the last scenario.
20090907 13:14:46< fendrin> Crab_: That is why we would have to tell him.
20090907 13:15:10< Crab_> fendrin: he would be happy to reload unit he gets 'correct' defecting units, yes :)
20090907 13:15:41< Crab_> fendrin: maybe do this for loyals only ?
20090907 13:15:50< fendrin> Crab_: We could divide the army in two halves in LoW19. All units loyal with Kalenz don't destroy villages, the Landar ones do. But we would need to mark them somehow.
20090907 13:16:12< Crab_> fendrin: well, another idea
20090907 13:16:30< Crab_> fendrin: we can make saurians curse the units which destroy at least one village
20090907 13:16:46< Crab_> fendrin: this will 'mark' them and any player will want to avoid many 'cursed' units
20090907 13:16:49< Soliton> hehe, the elvish rider that took the saurian treasure still has the gold coins overlay when i recall him now. :-P
20090907 13:17:02< Crab_> Soliton: he's smart to get the gold for himself :))
20090907 13:17:03< fendrin> Soliton: Uh
20090907 13:17:48< fendrin> Soliton: was the scenario fun?
20090907 13:18:21< Soliton> which one?
20090907 13:18:42< Crab_> fendrin: this way, we can even add a note to objectives : "any units which destroy village are cursed by saurians", without revealing anything about the split.
20090907 13:18:42< fendrin> Soliton: 5 the gold rider thing is new.
20090907 13:19:21< Soliton> it's a nice idea. i killed everything anyway though.
20090907 13:20:35< fendrin> Soliton: yeah, the campaign needs lots of balancing. 
20090907 13:24:21< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38476 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/index.php: switch default g.w.o stats to "Development"
20090907 13:24:39< fendrin> Crab_: So the whole elvish civil wore has it's origin in that saurian curse?
20090907 13:24:59< Crab_> fendrin: no, but many small things added to it..
20090907 13:24:59< fendrin> s/wore/war
20090907 13:25:18< fendrin> That was the best typo I did ever.
20090907 13:26:04< Crab_> fendrin: the potion effecting leaders, the saurian curse (NOTE: Saurian's Oracle attack is named 'curse' )
20090907 13:27:24< Crab_> with something like this quote: 'As you have shown no mercy to our kin, so I doom you, in turn, to be slayed by thou kin"
20090907 13:27:48< Crab_> esr can write something to that effect, I suppose
20090907 13:30:23< Crab_> fendrin: also note the ruby was uncovered somewhere around 25-30 YW and was unshieded until it's completion in 40YW. this could had contributed, too
20090907 13:30:32< grzybacz> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/LabelWML - it's `visible_in_fog` instead of `fogged` in 1.7.x. Should it be updated as DevFeature?
20090907 13:32:28< fendrin> Crab_: To be honest I am not convinced by that idea. The current random solution does fit my needs at the moment.
20090907 13:32:31< Crab_> grzybacz: should be, I think
20090907 13:32:56< Crab_> fendrin: ok. even if we stay with current random solution, the curse, I think, is worth adding.
20090907 13:33:13< Crab_> fendrin: i.e. the speech
20090907 13:33:23< Crab_> (no marks on units)
20090907 13:41:58< fendrin> Crab_: And what shall the curse do?
20090907 13:42:16< Crab_> fendrin: make the dialogue more interesting
20090907 13:42:36< Crab_> fendrin: and sound scary 
20090907 13:45:06< fendrin> :-)
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20090907 13:56:58< Soliton> fendrin: all in all the campaign is certainly nicer than the last time i played it.
20090907 13:59:13< fendrin> Soliton: All credits for scenario 3 go to Crab_. And most of the ideas I implemented were from the santis. But thank you :-)
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20090907 14:02:21< euschn> Crab_: I manually erased one of the 2 Landars (the one with 0 exp) from the scenariostart save of LOW-02. find_vacant still doesnt work, i.e., a new 0exp Landar is created
20090907 14:02:33< euschn> I guess something is wrong with finding the correct unit in the recall list
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20090907 14:04:42< Crab_> euschn: I'll try..
20090907 14:14:49< YogiHH> euschn, Crab: I don't think it is related, but i changed the mechanism for recalls in replays from list index to unit_id. Just in case that rings a bell somewhere.
20090907 14:17:54< euschn> YogiHH: it is somewhat related, as the same find_if() function is used to find the correct unit on the recall list. however, it does not seem to work properly in this case
20090907 14:17:58< Crab_> YogiHH: atm, the problem seems to be with [side][unit]'s being added to recall list twice.
20090907 14:18:28< Crab_> euschn: i.e. it parses [side][unit] on load, adds every unit with 'x,y=' to recall list, and then does it again
20090907 14:18:50< Crab_> euschn: see gamestatus.cpp:679
20090907 14:19:16< Crab_> euschn: and see gamestatus.cpp:622
20090907 14:20:09< Crab_> euschn: compiling a fix atm..
20090907 14:20:56< Crab_> euschn: and yes, this is caused by my changes
20090907 14:21:26< Crab_> euschn: I've made :789 non-symmetrical with :675
20090907 14:22:15< euschn> Crab_: hm this is a leftover from the [player] tag in savegames. I thought the double population would not matter as the recall list is cleared after the first population
20090907 14:23:24< Crab_> euschn: no, it  matters. [snapshot] is empty
20090907 14:23:46< Crab_> euschn: so no clearing is done
20090907 14:23:53< euschn> true, as this only occurs in scenario starts
20090907 14:24:24< Crab_> euschn: but, note :791 	if(player_exists) {
20090907 14:24:45< Crab_> and :623 	player_exists = false
20090907 14:25:00< Crab_> those previously kept the recall list from double-population
20090907 14:25:30< euschn> mhm
20090907 14:26:22< Crab_> euschn: but, I've made :789 non-symmetrical with :675, so it broke
20090907 14:32:39< euschn> Crab_: ah i see now, thanks for the clarification
20090907 14:35:15< Crab_> euschn: yes, this fixes the bug
20090907 14:35:29< euschn> great
20090907 14:37:29< Crab_> fendrin: and what about the way to tackle the 'dead units with id' problem ?
20090907 14:38:14< fendrin> Crab_: dead units with id? What problem?
20090907 14:38:34< Crab_> fendrin: if we have [side][unit]{ANDUILAS}[/unit][/side]
20090907 14:38:50< Crab_> fendrin: and, {ANDUILAS} contains  id=Anduilas,
20090907 14:39:30< Crab_> then, if no Anduilas in the recall list, he'll be created
20090907 14:39:39< fendrin> right
20090907 14:39:48< Crab_> fendrin: the problem is with :cl
20090907 14:40:03< Crab_> fendrin: if we :cl, we don't know if he's dead or alive
20090907 14:40:51< Crab_> fendrin: this is the case with Huraldur
20090907 14:41:04< Crab_> fendrin: if we :cl 14 from LoW 1, 
20090907 14:41:27< Crab_> fendrin: we do not have info about him in the save
20090907 14:42:09< Crab_> fendrin: is he to be created ? or is he dead and should not be created ?
20090907 14:43:00< Crab_> fendrin: compare this to Olurf, who's 'must not die, must be present' in some scenarios
20090907 14:43:15< Crab_> fendrin: if we :cl, he should be created if he's not in the recall list
20090907 14:44:02< fendrin> Huraldur will always be recalled by [recall]. If he is dead or never appeared because the user is switching from map to map he won't take part. 
20090907 14:44:09< Crab_> so, some WML key or other trickery is needed to separate between 'recall or create' and 'recall if present' cases
20090907 14:44:19< fendrin> no
20090907 14:44:22< Crab_> (if you want to use [side][unit] for all of this)
20090907 14:44:48< fendrin> [unit] does create or recall. So in any case we have the unit on the field. [recall] is just for recalling a unit that maybe alive.
20090907 14:44:53< Crab_> fendrin: ok
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20090907 15:09:59< CIA-62> crab * r38477 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: fix bug with id=foo find_vacant=yes' in [side][unit] causing both a unit recall and a unit create
20090907 15:10:14< Crab_> euschn, YogiHH ^ works now.
20090907 15:11:09< euschn> Crab_: great, thanks for fixing
20090907 15:12:11< Crab_> euschn: the control flow in that code is  messy...
20090907 15:13:01< euschn> Crab_: yes it is. I guess it could be simplified, but I left it like that for now for the sake of backwads compatibility
20090907 15:13:28< Crab_> euschn: well, it's easier to break things now than later in 1.8
20090907 15:13:38< Crab_> euschn: but the main problem is not backwards-compat
20090907 15:16:28< Crab_> euschn: the control flow is something like: "add units from A to recall list, add SOME units from B to recall list, recall_leader, sometimes clear_recall_list, add !SOME units from B to recall list"
20090907 15:18:07< Crab_> euschn: a lot less buggy variant is : 'get a list of all unit configs, place leader on map and place other units either on recall list or on map'
20090907 15:18:08< euschn> Crab_: yes, the reason for units being added for different places is backwards compatability. in old saves, there might be a [player] tag with carryover information that needs to be added separately
20090907 15:18:36< Crab_> euschn: no, it needs to be added, but there's no reason to add it separately
20090907 15:19:14< Crab_> we can collect std::vector< config > of unit configs first (possibly, with storing origin informaiton for each config )
20090907 15:20:57< Crab_> and then process it in several passes (leader -> place on map, units with same id -> recall or place on map exactly 1 of them, other units -> recall  or place on map)
20090907 15:22:49< euschn> Crab_: There might be some tricky cases, as depending on whether we have a snapshot, scenariostart or replay, unit cfgs occur multiple times. determining which one to use resulted in that quirky control flow
20090907 15:23:01< euschn> you are right though, this function could use an overhaul
20090907 15:23:11< Crab_> euschn: we can store 'origin' informatio in that std::vector<unit_config>
20090907 15:23:31< euschn> what do you mean by origin information?
20090907 15:23:32< Crab_> e.g. "snapshot", "side", "side_unit",
20090907 15:23:47< Crab_> euschn: store an attribute in each cfg with info "from where this comes"
20090907 15:24:05< YogiHH> Crab_: This piece of savegame code is still very complex to deal with and we are hesitating to do more than small changes, as we are approaching the next stable release.
20090907 15:24:49< euschn> Crab_: its more like the other way round: you have to determine what kind of save we have, and based on that pick the "origin" of the uni cfgs
20090907 15:24:53< YogiHH> Crab_: We have done a lot of things about the savegame code, i'd rather want to avoid more bigger changes and get the bugs done.
20090907 15:25:23< Crab_> YogiHH: ok. the bug is done :)
20090907 15:25:49< Crab_> euschn: yes, firstly, "you have to determine what kind of save we have, and based on that pick the "origin" of the uni cfgs". but then, you should have just a vector of unit configs
20090907 15:26:25< Crab_> euschn: and then, populate units and recall list.
20090907 15:29:18< Crab_> euschn: population can be very simple if first step is done right.  e.g.    "     if (is_leader(cfg) {place_leader(cfg); } else if (is_recall(cfg) add_to_recall_list(cfg) } else {place_unit(cfg);}       "
20090907 15:32:19< YogiHH> Crab_: I'd rather do the marking with WML, for example don't look for x,y coordinates, instead use [recall_list]
20090907 15:33:37< euschn> Crab_: I agree that sounds cleaner. I am still not convinced that first part, i.e. assembling the vector<unit_cfg> will be easy, il lhave to look into that more 
20090907 15:33:58< Crab_> YogiHH: this requires major WML conversions. current way is WML-based, too 'x= empty y= empty, find_vacant is not 'yes'"
20090907 15:34:03< euschn> i.e., it might introduce some bugs if not done carefully as YogiHH said
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20090907 15:35:48< YogiHH> Crab_: Yes, i know it requires major changes (which is a reason i wouldn't want to do it now). But i have always made bad experiences with variables, who contain more than one function.
20090907 15:37:36< corn> just found a bug in the libery-unlawful orders scenario: when the enemy leader transforms back into human form, his HP is over the maximum
20090907 15:39:04< Crab_> YogiHH: yes, this is true. to deal with them, they must be encapsulated with   ' bool is_foo(const config &cfg) function ' in c++ code
20090907 15:39:50< YogiHH> meeting, will get back to you
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20090907 15:40:41< Crab_> YogiHH: for example, today's bug would had been avoided if the 'if' statements used something like   is_in_recall_list(config config &cfg) function instead of   if (cfg["x"].empty() && cfg["y"].empty() ) checks
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20090907 16:21:23< YogiHH> Crab_: As a general rule, separate things should be separated, even if their data structure is identical. If we have units on the map and in the recall list, they should be separated, in the savegame as well as in the code.
20090907 16:21:48< YogiHH> Crab_: If we mix them together, we will always experience unnecessary trouble.
20090907 16:22:14< YogiHH> Crab_: That's why i wouldn't want to have one unit config vector, containing both units from the recall list and on the map.
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20090907 16:32:53< Crab_> YogiHH: for c++ part, what matters is not the data structure, but the interface. If it's identical, they should be in the same place, if it's different, they should be in different places.
20090907 16:32:59< Crab_> for example, it can be said that both recalls and units_on_map have 'construct_unit_from_config', 'check_if_it_is_leader', 'check_if_it_should_go_to_recall_list'  and 'check_if_it_should_be_placed_on_map'  interface operations
20090907 16:33:42< Crab_> yes, it can be done as 'two vectors', too
20090907 16:35:34< Crab_> the problem is that in the savegame, they're stored in the same place, and look very similar..
20090907 16:36:48< Crab_> so, probably, the best way is to construct a wrapper object from each of the config elements, and put them in one of two vectors depending on whether the config describes a 'recall list' element
20090907 16:37:37< Crab_> this way, each unit config will be in the same 'place' (inside a wrapper class), but in different container depending on its role
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20090907 16:43:20< Crab_> then the procedure will be straightforward 'construct_unit_vector;  construct_recall_vector;  get_ids_present_in_recall_vector; remove_by_these_ids_from_unit_vector; get_start_location; construct_leader; setup_units; setup_recall_list;'
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20090907 17:42:40< AI0867> wesbot: log 38426
20090907 17:42:41< wesbot> crab * r38426 : LoW 15 : do not enter linger_mode after completion, since this is a story-only scenario
20090907 17:42:44< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=38426
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20090907 19:14:52< boucman> hey all
20090907 19:24:28< Sirp> hi boucman 
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20090907 19:46:34< silene> hi
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20090907 19:58:32< mordante> servus
20090907 19:59:58< YogiHH> afk
20090907 20:03:16< mordante> alink, I have nothing against reindenting a file when it's broken, if really all 3500 lines get modified you might want to warn people...
20090907 20:06:51< alink> mordante: well, in the case of menu_events.cpp, the indentation is not really broken, it's just a huge indented namespace. I think we don't indent namespace elsewhere, so IMHO this uselessly increase indentation levels
20090907 20:07:13< alink> (on 3500 lines)
20090907 20:08:09< mordante> well I consider it broken with the rest of our style ;-)
20090907 20:08:33< mordante> it leads to confusion when you think you messed up indentionlevels
20090907 20:08:36< alink> indeed, good point :)
20090907 20:09:58< alink> ok I will probably reindent it later today
20090907 20:10:54< alink> *** anyone currently working on menu_events.cpp, tell me if you want me to delay that, or consider you warned ***
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20090907 20:20:36< mordante> ilor, good to know you did the final step for gsoc 
20090907 20:23:11< mordante> fendrin yes the 'is the problem, just don't get too much hope it getting fixed http://gna.org/support/?1865
20090907 20:24:01< mordante> Ivanovic, ^
20090907 20:25:07< Ivanovic> :(
20090907 20:25:22< mordante> yeah really :-(
20090907 20:25:30< CIA-62> alink * r38478 /trunk/src/ (5 files): move some repeated hardcoded color values to one place
20090907 20:25:35< mordante> and with LoW it gets really annoying
20090907 20:26:57< alink> to be fair using ' in filename seems a bad idea
20090907 20:27:37< mordante> no Wesnoth developers have no bad ideas ;-P
20090907 20:29:21< alink> mmh it's also true that in english  '  is more usefull (compared to french)
20090907 20:30:28 * alink being a french speaker, so he sometimes forget about this kind of difference
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20090907 20:48:20< CIA-62> alink * r38479 /trunk/src/ (4 files): 
20090907 20:48:20< CIA-62> An attempt to make more clear the distinction between name, unit_type and race in unit sidebars.
20090907 20:48:20< CIA-62> Currently uses same colors and indentation as for weapon and its detail.
20090907 20:48:20< CIA-62> (for UI visual consistency and cuing importance hierarchy)
20090907 20:48:29< Ivanovic> alink: the problem is that the savename automatically is the scenario name (or the transalted version of it)
20090907 20:48:39< Ivanovic> so yeah, those are easily introduced in english
20090907 20:49:48< alink> well, I hope we already do some character checking before creating filename
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20090907 20:51:01< alink> but maybe we just reject bad filename instead of skipping/modifying bad character  
20090907 20:51:24< mordante> alink, the problem is only with gna not with the game
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20090907 20:52:17< alink> indeed if ' only causes troubles with gna, it's not our job to deal with these '
20090907 20:52:39< alink> (i was still under the assumption that ' was bad for filename)
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20090907 20:55:28< alink> ok seems that   '   is not in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filename#Reserved_characters_and_words
20090907 20:56:19< mordante> nope only gna has a problem with it
20090907 20:56:24-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090907 20:56:41< alink> we should send them my last link ;-p
20090907 20:57:20< mordante> maybe you can convince them to look at it :-P
20090907 20:57:47< CIA-62> mordante * r38480 /trunk/src/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): Fix a doxygen warning.
20090907 20:57:50< CIA-62> mordante * r38481 /trunk/src/ (formula_debugger.cpp formula_debugger.hpp): Fix a doxygen warning.
20090907 20:57:54< CIA-62> mordante * r38482 /trunk/Doxyfile: Added src to doxygen include path.
20090907 20:57:57< CIA-62> mordante * r38483 /trunk/src/ai/manager.hpp: Fix a doxygen warning.
20090907 20:58:00< CIA-62> mordante * r38484 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/scrollbar_container_private.hpp: Fix a doxygen warning.
20090907 20:58:03< CIA-62> mordante * r38485 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/19_Costly_Revenge.cfg: Make commenting out not look silly.
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20090907 20:59:15< alink> btw their hardware system update seems completed now, I wonder if we can feel a difference
20090907 20:59:35< mordante> with my bandwidth I doubt it
20090907 20:59:49< alink> well, with the previous 95% disk usage, we were about to feel it :)
20090907 21:00:10< mordante> depends how big the 5% left is ;-)
20090907 21:01:50< alink> true, I think it was 4x150GB in RAID, so 2x150 GB but not sure if 95% referred to both or only one 
20090907 21:03:29< alink> I am sure that i often commit 15GB, see, i am about to change 3500 lines :)
20090907 21:06:13< mordante> even for us that would suffice for quite a while, but I guess Warzone 2100 will need the space sooner, where's Zarel when you need him :-P
20090907 21:08:23< alink> oh Warzone 2100 is on Gna too, I didn't know that
20090907 21:08:43< mordante> yup they are
20090907 21:09:06< alink> but i see that they use their own bugtracker now
20090907 21:09:21< alink> https://gna.org/bugs/?12993
20090907 21:09:55< mordante> ah they switched to trac
20090907 21:11:51< alink> probably because of the broken support of   '  in filename with Gna <:o)
20090907 21:12:13< mordante> :-)
20090907 21:13:10< silene> i'm not fond of trac, in particular i really dislike their email notifications: the important informations appear at the end of the mails instead of the start
20090907 21:13:52< mordante> never used the email part, but I like how easy it is to target bugs at milestones
20090907 21:14:07< mordante> and get an overview which bugs are fixed in which version
20090907 21:14:37< mordante> wait I got some trac emails, but can't remember how they looked
20090907 21:44:44< CIA-62> alink * r38486 /trunk/src/ (dialogs.cpp generate_report.cpp): 
20090907 21:44:44< CIA-62> Write unit's name in bold and uniformize level not in bold in sidebars.
20090907 21:44:44< CIA-62> Bold name because it acts as the "top title", and it accentuates the unit's unicity.
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20090907 21:46:02< alink> Maybe, I will try emphasise higher level only, all these bold "level 1" didn't make sense to me
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20090907 21:48:59< alink> yeah, seems that we already do that elsewhere
20090907 21:49:09< alink> and again with hidden hardcoded values, I guess I will clean this too
20090907 21:51:30< fendrin> hello
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20090907 21:53:14< fendrin> It's nice to see the internet fail.
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20090907 21:56:52< fendrin> mordante: ? An empty diff? http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/19_Costly_Revenge.cfg?rev=38485&r1=38456&r2=38485
20090907 21:56:58< CIA-62> alink * r38487 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: 
20090907 21:56:58< CIA-62> Remove colored (X,Y) coordinates from the already bloated enough "unit list" dialog.
20090907 21:56:58< CIA-62> (humans don't see useful info in a list of x,y values)
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20090907 21:58:39< mordante> fendrin, blame gna https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-commits/2009-09/msg00152.html
20090907 21:59:38< stikonas> Chusslove: parchement backgound in localized images should not be changed, should it?
20090907 22:00:01< stikonas> for example Lintanir Forest parchment has some strange background
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20090907 22:22:36< mordante> I'm off night
20090907 22:22:52< fendrin> Crab_: I just discovered that there are no ogres in LoW. What a shame.
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20090907 22:23:58< Crab_> fendrin: hehe. orges.. where do you want to put them ? 10_Cliffs_of_Thoria ?
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20090907 22:26:44< Crab_> fendrin: btw, gold color Anduilas symbolizes 'loyal' ?
20090907 22:30:51< fendrin> Crab_: No, they are in a cage. Many of them. The orcs release them at some point. The problem: They are hungry and orc meat is tasty as well.
20090907 22:31:34< fendrin> The player is also able to sneak there and release them at a point that maybe bad for the orcs.
20090907 22:31:35< Crab_> fendrin: good idea
20090907 22:32:01< Crab_> fendrin: maybe make a ogre petition the player for help ? with some landar-vs-kalenz dialogue, and a choice presented
20090907 22:32:33< Crab_> fendrin: i.e. if the player agrees, he has to sneak in someone to 'open the cage'
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20090907 22:34:27< fendrin> Crab_: There are no choices in LoW at the moment. A little bit of that sugre should please the player.
20090907 22:36:07< fendrin> Crab_: If the player manages to reach the cage before they are freed it's possible to make an arangement. But what are they consequences?
20090907 22:36:23< fendrin> s/they/the
20090907 22:36:57< Crab_> free XP for slaying the ogres (we can make the caged orgres die from 1 strike)
20090907 22:37:18< Crab_> and, if freed, ogres help vs orcs
20090907 22:37:39< Crab_> that's the most 'direct and short-term' consequences.
20090907 22:37:59< fendrin> Crab_: sure. Any long term ones?
20090907 22:38:12< Crab_> a loyal ogre ?
20090907 22:38:26< fendrin> loyal to landar?
20090907 22:38:35< Crab_> loyal to kalenz
20090907 22:38:58< Crab_> i'm quite sure that landar would prefer to kill them, not free :)
20090907 22:40:44< fendrin> Crab_: LoW once had a part that included some battles against undeads. But all of these scenarios have been ripped off and pushed into DM. There is not a single undead in the campaign left.
20090907 22:42:16< Crab_> fendrin: interesting. does SoF feature undead ?
20090907 22:42:38< fendrin> Crab_: The loyal ogre could play the role of jar jar bings. Wherse se orcse are?
20090907 22:42:50< Crab_> fendrin: hehe
20090907 22:43:37< Crab_> fendrin: note that it looks like SoF (same time period) doesn't feature undead, too.
20090907 22:44:00< Crab_> fendrin: so maybe there was no 'active' necromancers at this time
20090907 22:44:25< fendrin> The history of wesnoth introduces the upcomming of the undead as a single event somewhere.
20090907 22:44:54< Crab_> fendrin: well, trow has undead from the very beginning of the story..
20090907 22:44:56< fendrin> In the time of LoW there are no undead in wesnoth because there is no necromancer around to create them.
20090907 22:45:21< fendrin> Crab_: That is true but the undead leader is killed in there iirc.
20090907 22:45:46< Crab_> fendrin: Jevyan has certanly left apprentices. but they might be hiding.
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20090907 22:46:34< fendrin> Crab_: The problem is that low has already enough scenarios. And there is no scenario where they would fit. Or at least I don't see it.
20090907 22:46:52< Crab_> fendrin: well, there's no need for undead there
20090907 22:47:05< fendrin> But I wonder if there isn't too much always against the orcs in there
20090907 22:47:13< Crab_> campaigns have to be different after all :)
20090907 22:47:30< shadowmaster> there's too much hatred against the orcs in LoW indeed
20090907 22:47:42< shadowmaster> not that they didn't deserve it :/
20090907 22:48:00< Crab_> shadowmaster: well, kalenz is friendly towards both humans and dwarves...
20090907 22:48:38< Crab_> shadowmaster: and no undead. who's left ? saurians & drakes & orcs & nagas & mermens
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20090907 22:49:23< fendrin> 1x drakes, 4x saurians, 3x elves, the rest all orcs and trolls.
20090907 22:49:40< Crab_> and some gryphons
20090907 22:49:50< fendrin> That is 9x against orcs.
20090907 22:50:13< fendrin> 8x orcs and one troll/dwarve only
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20090907 22:51:49< Soliton> the campaign is about fighting the orc invasion so that seems only logical.
20090907 22:52:51< shadowmaster> hence my second comment
20090907 22:53:28< Soliton> they're just misunderstood.
20090907 22:53:33< fendrin> :-)
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20090907 22:56:24-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 90 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090907 22:56:26< fendrin> The trolls in scenario 11 Battle of the book could be replaced by undead. There is a mage that controlls the only drakes in the campaign and has a troll ally. 
20090907 22:56:42< Crab_> fendrin: scenario 11 needs a better story background, too..
20090907 22:57:14< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, and a better map and some events. It's quite boring right now.
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20090907 23:06:13-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 90 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090907 23:06:13-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Mon Sep  7 22:56:23 2009]
20090907 23:06:13[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090907 23:06:13[ ABCD        ] [ boucman        ] [ deekay ] [ giusef   ] [ loonybot    ] [ Smar    ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ AI0867      ] [ busfahrer      ] [ dfranke] [ grzywacz ] [ loonycyborg ] [ Soliton ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ Alesis-Novik] [ Chusslove      ] [ dlr365 ] [ ilor     ] [ nonsensical ] [ stikonas] 
20090907 23:06:13[ alink       ] [ CIA-62         ] [ Doppp  ] [ isaac    ] [ PK7         ] [ Tigge   ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ Amu_        ] [ cib0           ] [ elynia ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Rhonda      ] [ wesbot  ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ AnMaster    ] [ corn           ] [ erl_   ] [ kimrhh   ] [ shadowmaster] [ yann    ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ BenUrban    ] [ Crab_          ] [ ettin  ] [ knotwork_] [ shikadibot  ] [ YogiHH  ] 
20090907 23:06:13[ Blueblaze   ] [ crimson_penguin] [ fendrin] [ lobby    ] [ ShikadiLord ] 
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20090907 23:06:27-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20090907 23:07:35< CIA-62> fendrin * r38488 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: LoW 01: Switched completely to the great new persistence whatever.
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20090907 23:08:11< shadowmaster> grzywacz: can you read me? what was the name of the attribute you implemented for Espreon?
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20090907 23:09:44< fendrin> Damn, I hate wmllint. I would like to remove just all that wmllint ignore here and there and fill 100 bug reports against it.
20090907 23:09:50-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090907 23:09:51< shadowmaster> :-)
20090907 23:11:12< fendrin> shadowmaster: I bet IftU is one wmllint ignore at the first and one wmllint unignore at the very end of each scenario.
20090907 23:11:31< shadowmaster> no. I simply don't care about wmllint.
20090907 23:12:09< shadowmaster> I put somewhere a warning instructing anyone complaining about "IftU doesn't work with wmllint" to shut up
20090907 23:12:35< fendrin> shadowmaster: Maybe I won't get away if I try that with LoW ...
20090907 23:13:33< shadowmaster> no, that's the curse of mainline.
20090907 23:14:06< fendrin> shadowmaster: It's okay to convert old stuff. But most bugs I fix are only tell wmllint to not complain about nothing things.
20090907 23:14:11< shadowmaster> mainline is supposed to work fine for wmllint, not for the players
20090907 23:14:44< fendrin> Wmllint doesn't hurt the players. It hurds the maintainers.
20090907 23:14:45< Soliton> what's wrong with filing bugs against wmllint?
20090907 23:15:31< fendrin> Soliton: esr denies to support macro checking.
20090907 23:16:25< shadowmaster> that was something about which I've bugged him 2 or 3 times :-)
20090907 23:16:40< Soliton> if a check is missing what's the issue?
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20090907 23:17:16< shadowmaster> if you macroify complete or partial [side] definitions, wmllint complains unless yu use those magic wmllint: validate-off or something comments
20090907 23:17:51< shadowmaster> same with macroifying [recall] , [unit], etc. Sure, there are plenty of wmllint "magic" comments to work around that, but it's annoying :/
20090907 23:17:53< Soliton> what does it complain about?
20090907 23:17:53< fendrin> Soliton: There is python code around that does macro insertion.
20090907 23:18:16< fendrin> Soliton: It's missing attributes since it ignores macros.
20090907 23:19:08< Crab_> fendrin: well, imo, the right way to fix this is to implement a WML schema/check ruleset (in wml :) ) and make a wmllint which works from inside wesnoth client (thus, expanding all macros)
20090907 23:19:09< fendrin> The main problem is that you can't give a correct line number anymore if the macros are replaced with their definitions.
20090907 23:19:23< fendrin> Crab_: Agreed.
20090907 23:19:34< grzywacz> shadowmaster, visible_in_shroud
20090907 23:20:00< shadowmaster> grzywacz: shouldn't "visible_under_shroud" be the proper-english versionof that?
20090907 23:20:01< Soliton> then remove the attribute checks from wmllint?
20090907 23:20:20< Soliton> what attributes does it check for?
20090907 23:20:32< fendrin> Soliton: They are quite usefull. I wish they would work for my stuff.
20090907 23:20:33< grzywacz> shadowmaster, maybe :)
20090907 23:20:35< shadowmaster> grzywacz: also, shouldn't it be "check_shrouded" to match the existing "check_fogged"?
20090907 23:20:51< grzywacz> shadowmaster, there's no check_fogged. there's visible_in_fog
20090907 23:21:02< shadowmaster> ah. I guess someone changed that.
20090907 23:21:05< grzywacz> shadowmaster, are you talking about [label] or [sound_source]?
20090907 23:21:19< shadowmaster> both should use the same syntax... :/
20090907 23:21:21< fendrin> Soliton: It's checked for unknown units, missing attributes that are mandatory. If the recruit_list matches the recruit_pattern.
20090907 23:21:29< shadowmaster> unless you really want to make WML more unpopular
20090907 23:21:53< grzywacz> me? different syntax has already been there :P
20090907 23:22:05< shadowmaster> wtf.
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20090907 23:24:20< grzywacz> shadowmaster, ttf. :) [label] used fogged= which later changed to visible_in_fog=
20090907 23:24:32< grzywacz> shadowmaster, [sound_source] has always used check_shrouded
20090907 23:24:35< grzywacz> :X
20090907 23:25:10< shadowmaster> :/
20090907 23:25:15< fendrin> Crab_: The third game designed by dave does have wml schema something. The game is called frogatto.
20090907 23:25:35< Crab_> fendrin: a suggestion for LoW: each of two main heroes has two advancement choices, I propose adding a special ability to each of these choices to make the heroes 'different' (and make Kalenz keep it when transforming to elvish lord)
20090907 23:25:35< shadowmaster> well, yes, it can't be visible_in_fog now that I think about it.
20090907 23:25:41< shadowmaster> sound_sources aren't visible :o)
20090907 23:26:14< Crab_> fendrin: what do you think ? For example: Kalenz:/elvish marshall: allow L4 to get L4 leadership; Landar/Avenger: backstab
20090907 23:26:20< fendrin> Crab_: That was on my TODO, Kalenz should inherit the leadership from the captain line.
20090907 23:27:12< Crab_> fendrin: and what he should inherit from champion line ?
20090907 23:27:41< grzywacz> shadowmaster, "hearable"? :D
20090907 23:27:43< fendrin> more hitpoints, more melee damage
20090907 23:28:10< shadowmaster> grzywacz: ha ha, not funny.
20090907 23:28:21< grzywacz> shadowmaster, I know.
20090907 23:28:37< Crab_> fendrin: differences between Champion and marshal: 8hp; -1/+1 melee and +1/0 ranged
20090907 23:30:00< fendrin> Crab_: Right, at least that amount I want to add if Champion line advances to Elvish Lord.
20090907 23:30:18< fendrin> s/advances/transforms
20090907 23:30:19< Crab_> fendrin: i.e., if we use this, Kalenz as Elven High Lord will have ~77 hp; 9-5 melee, and 8-5 magical ranged
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20090907 23:30:35< Crab_> fendrin: do you want to advance Landar into High Lord, as well ?
20090907 23:31:13< Crab_> (as in wiki: 'Landar declares himself High Lord of the Elves, leading to civil war.')
20090907 23:31:29< Crab_> (maybe later, only for last scenarios)
20090907 23:31:50< Crab_> (or at the same time as kalenz, to keep things symmetric)
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20090907 23:36:05< Crab_> fendrin: i.e., if we transform LoW into MP campaign, it would be nice if each main hero would have 'special' advancements, as in mini-rpg
20090907 23:36:11< shadowmaster> elvin: check http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=382661#p382661, the off topic part
20090907 23:36:15< shadowmaster> wait...
20090907 23:36:17< shadowmaster> fendrin: ^
20090907 23:36:34< Crab_> fendrin: to allow the player to 'customize' their hero. (but they're different lines - fighter vs archer, so they'll have different choices)
20090907 23:36:37< Ivanovic> Sapient: once you are around and got some spare minuites, please add yourself in the list of the GSoC mentor summit attendees
20090907 23:38:57< Ivanovic> http://gsoc-wiki.osuosl.org/index.php/2009
20090907 23:39:33< Ivanovic> Sapient: in case you don't know the username/password, check the mentor-ml google group, it is listed there in the thread "Mentor Summit Travel Stipends and Ticket Booking (long but  important)"
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20090907 23:43:26< CIA-62> alink * r38489 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: fix small bad indentation
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20090907 23:52:51< fendrin> shadowmaster: Is that a bug?
20090907 23:53:08< shadowmaster> I'm not sure, you are the maintainer.
20090907 23:53:19< shadowmaster> I haven't even played it since 2006 :]
20090907 23:54:08< fendrin> shadowmaster: To be honest, me neither.
20090907 23:56:17< fendrin> And LoW was much better balanced in 1.2 than it is now.
20090907 23:56:46< Crab_> fendrin: btw, playing LoW now on normal, for balancing purposes (no debug mode)
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20090907 23:57:18< fendrin> Crab_: Where are you?
20090907 23:57:22< Crab_> LoW 4
20090907 23:57:59< alink> does just "//%%" is a special comment thing in c++ ?
20090907 23:58:20< Crab_> alink: for standard compilers - no
20090907 23:58:29< shadowmaster> that's not doxygen syntax either
20090907 23:58:38< Crab_> alink: of course, some custom tool might use it...
20090907 23:58:44< fendrin> Crab_: Damn. That is already advanced. I have many commits for the new persistence changes. That is the biggest problem now. All persistence bug must be fixed before 1.8. Fixes in that area tend to break the savegame compatability of a campaign...
20090907 23:59:02< Crab_> fendrin: np, it is quick to get there
20090907 23:59:24< Crab_> and ~ 4 bugs already spotted
20090907 23:59:32< alink> and for humans? But it's probably something Hajo used long times ago, and IIRC he used weird comment and indentation
20090907 23:59:42< shadowmaster> alink: where?
20090907 23:59:49< alink> (and it's in his code)
20090907 23:59:56< shadowmaster> yes, I'm too lazy to open another terminal and use fgrpe. Don't ask.
--- Log closed Tue Sep 08 00:00:15 2009