--- Log opened Tue Sep 08 00:00:15 2009
--- Day changed Tue Sep 08 2009
20090908 00:00:15< alink> menu_events.cpp  which i am cleaning
20090908 00:00:41< alink> line 233, but nothing special there
20090908 00:01:15< alink> so, nothing important, i am just curious
20090908 00:02:41< alink> hehe 0 google hits for //%%  :-)
20090908 00:02:55< grzywacz> Espreon, enjoy your new features ;)
20090908 00:03:13< Espreon> grzywacz: Heh, thanks. :)
20090908 00:08:36< CIA-62> fendrin * r38490 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (8 files): LoW: New side persistence thingy. Yee hoo!
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20090908 00:16:14< CIA-62> alink * r38491 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: fix indentation of few comments
20090908 00:21:47 * Espreon kicks CIA-62
20090908 00:21:48< CIA-62> ow
20090908 00:23:09< Espreon> I wish to know why CIA hates my commits to wesnoth.
20090908 00:23:25< fendrin> Crab_: Commited a bunch of persistence updates. What bugs did you spot?
20090908 00:23:30< Crab_> Espreon: maybe you're a lucky gna user :)
20090908 00:23:48< Espreon> Probably...
20090908 00:25:25< Crab_> fendrin: in LoW 3, theres a fog revealer that fails to be removed, so the orcs attack him. also, the orcs failed to communicate chosen strategy (it was 'wait' before kalenz arrival, then 'defend')
20090908 00:25:57< fendrin> Crab_: I dislike the fog remove by invisible unit hack.
20090908 00:26:05< Crab_> fendrin: also, the color coding of loyals doesn't work well with landar
20090908 00:27:44< alink> about this remove fog thing, and permanent fog clearer is relatively easy to code (I even had a prototype once), but don't you think it will be a bit confusing for the user (why no fog there?)
20090908 00:27:51< alink> s/and/a
20090908 00:28:11< Crab_> alink: well, it has to stay only for 1 dialogue
20090908 00:28:27< Espreon> I shall be back soon...
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20090908 00:28:37< fendrin> Crab_: Maybe I haven't seen the latest version. Is it less confusing at the moment?
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20090908 00:29:11< Crab_> fendrin: 'Is it less confusing at the moment' - that's about what ?
20090908 00:30:05< fendrin> Crab_: The current explanation to why there is no fog.
20090908 00:30:16< alink> Crab_: ah ok, so allowing permanent fog clearer in WML, but let WML directly add/remove it for some event
20090908 00:31:13< Crab_> alink: yes, 'remove fog for some time' or, alternatively 'make a unit grant vision to specified sides'..
20090908 00:31:32< Crab_> alink: to allow player to see dialogue which happens somewhere far away..
20090908 00:32:39< alink> my previous implemtation was based on the same bits map used for fog and shroud. More powerfull but maybe less handy to use in WML
20090908 00:32:52< fendrin> alink: [fog] slf side=1 [unfog] slf side=1 ?
20090908 00:32:57< alink> 'the idea come from the remove_shroud WML feature)
20090908 00:33:54< Crab_> fendrin: 'they took all our treasure! ... I will give 500 gold to whoever kills this leader' looks funny :)
20090908 00:34:10< alink> fendrin: i suppose that we could use the slf to generate the unfog bits map
20090908 00:34:17< fendrin> Crab_: It's from his private pocket.
20090908 00:34:30< alink> fendrin: wait you also want to *add* fog ?
20090908 00:34:39< fendrin> sure
20090908 00:34:59< fendrin> Look ther is fog, it's only in that valley there!
20090908 00:35:15< alink> hum, but that means make some units blind
20090908 00:36:07< fendrin> alink: huh? 
20090908 00:36:09< CIA-62> espreon * r38492 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added the Spanish overlay for LoW's map.
20090908 00:36:15< Soliton> fendrin: then you unfog everything else.
20090908 00:36:32< Soliton> no need to force fog somewhere.
20090908 00:36:50< alink> yes, what i could understand is to remove this new location fog clearer in some area
20090908 00:38:18< alink> any unit moves will always remove "artificial" fog and if we don't the unit can move *into* the fog, which is not wanted
20090908 00:38:42< alink> so we can just artificially remove fog, not add it. 
20090908 00:40:22< fendrin> Fog is a fullscreen thing?
20090908 00:40:40< Soliton> full map*
20090908 00:41:13< alink> I am talking about the "Fog of War"
20090908 00:41:21< fendrin> Adding fog would just release the old nofog areas and fine smaller new ones.
20090908 00:41:42< fendrin> s/fine/define
20090908 00:42:28< alink> ok, so, as i said  "remove this new location fog clearer in some area"
20090908 00:42:29< fendrin> alink: So there is no need for an add_fog tag.
20090908 00:44:05< alink> but i see now that even if the basis of the feature is easy to implement, there is also a need for handy WML functions to manipulate it
20090908 00:44:54< Soliton> setting "allied fog" for single units might be nice.
20090908 00:45:29< fendrin> Soliton: use case?
20090908 00:45:34< Crab_> Soliton: not just 'allied fog', but allow single units to reveal fog for specified side
20090908 00:45:42< Crab_> fendrin: 'spying' on enemy movement
20090908 00:45:43< alink> ah that is probably easy.
20090908 00:45:49< Soliton> Crab_: yeah, that's what i meant.
20090908 00:46:24< Soliton> fendrin: exactly where you use the fog clearer in low now.
20090908 00:46:36< fendrin> Soliton: Right. Perfect solution.
20090908 00:47:45< Soliton> usually you want to clear the fog to show what some units are doing. otherwise just having no shroud is enough.
20090908 00:47:51< fendrin> Crab_: What is wrong with landar's teamcolor?
20090908 00:48:32< Crab_> fendrin: compare to Anduilas. Anduilas is 'easily seen gold', but Landar is not 'easily seen gold'
20090908 00:48:42< fendrin> Adding that nofog thing to villages may as well be good.
20090908 00:49:15< Crab_> fendrin: better not 'nofog', but 'sight radius'
20090908 00:49:56< fendrin> Crab_: Landar is a important unit, he is brown like kalenz and cleodil or olurf. Anduilas is only loyal and so his teamcolor is orange.
20090908 00:50:01< alink> i thought that SLF could handle these cases
20090908 00:50:34< Crab_> fendrin: ok. 'gold' on anduilas model is much more noticeable :)
20090908 00:51:36< fendrin> Crab_: Feel free to define other teamcolors for loyal and important. We can't use the normal ones for that issue anyway.
20090908 00:51:59< Crab_> fendrin: ok. also, what do you think about making anduilas 'quick', as well ?
20090908 00:52:11< fendrin> alink: I thought that the feature is bound to units, isn't it?
20090908 00:52:25< Crab_> fendrin: 5 movement = 1 move on mountains = not pretty
20090908 00:52:29< Crab_> since Kalenz is quick nowadays...
20090908 00:53:20< alink> fendrin: yeah, I was talking about future nofog feature, no need of radius, village etc.. just use SLF
20090908 00:53:35< alink> the current fog is indeed bound to units
20090908 00:54:24< fendrin> alink: Owned villages give you some view as well, don't they? 
20090908 00:54:37< alink> fendrin: no
20090908 00:54:41< Crab_> fendrin: no, they not. LoW 3 is an example
20090908 00:54:50< alink> so, you can't see who steal them :-)
20090908 00:55:13< fendrin> hmmm, stupid me.
20090908 00:56:01< alink> shroud is a bits map bound to a team, so i wanted to add a nofog bits map to team, and after unit move, only refog hexes not marked in that nofog bit map
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20090908 01:06:28< CIA-62> alink * r38493 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Remove an useless namespace indentation level on the whole file
20090908 01:09:49< alink> little c++ question: in menu_events.cpp there is anonymous namespace nested into the events namespace (which is the whole file). It only contains a class leader_scroll_dialog not declared in the header.
20090908 01:10:27< alink> what is the purpose of this? No effect and just an indication for coders ?
20090908 01:11:00< Crab_> alink: maybe just-in-case to indicate that public gui::dialog is gui::dialog, not events::gui::dialog ?
20090908 01:11:40< Crab_> alink: look into the history, maybe it was done later as a workaround to some compiler /etc
20090908 01:11:49< alink> I think that if you nest an anon namespace into events, you are still in events::
20090908 01:12:51< alink> AFAIK you can not "go out" of your parent namespace
20090908 01:13:59< alink> wesbot: log r19781
20090908 01:14:00< wesbot> sapient * r19781 : usability enhancements to the new features of the statistics dialog
20090908 01:14:03< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=19781
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20090908 01:14:12< Crab_> alink: yes, if you nest an anon namespace into events, you are still in events::
20090908 01:15:01< alink> ok, I guess I will ask Sapient
20090908 01:15:22< Crab_> alink: my guess is that's for some weird compiler
20090908 01:15:45 * alink is sometimes confused about namespace tricks, maybe he will learn something new
20090908 01:16:24< alink> Crab_: Seems consistent with the fact that Sapient was often the one dealing with weird compiler 
20090908 01:16:56< Crab_> fendrin: btw, is 'gold overlay still on scout'  fixed in trunk ?
20090908 01:18:48< fendrin> Crab_: no
20090908 01:19:05< Crab_> fendrin: should I submit a bug to gna ?
20090908 01:20:20< fendrin> Crab_: no, It's already marked with a todo.
20090908 01:20:23< Crab_> fendrin: ok
20090908 01:21:21< Crab_> corn: around ?
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20090908 02:00:46< Crab_> fendrin: what do you think about changing the place where dwarves appear in LoW 7 ?
20090908 02:01:55< Crab_> fendrin: my personal proposal is to allow the player (in the role of narrator) to make a selection 'near which orc leader the dwarves shall appear)'
20090908 02:02:48< Crab_> fendrin: this way it will be more fun - since the player will be able to backstab an orc leader of his choice with those nifty berserkers )
20090908 02:03:16< Crab_> fendrin: and, by turn 14, a few orc leaders might had already fallen
20090908 02:03:34< alink> wesbot bug 14263
20090908 02:03:35< wesbot> Bug #14263  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20090908 02:03:35< wesbot> Summary: Invisible units - units are not always drawn in fast replay
20090908 02:03:35< wesbot> Original submission: When observing a game in fast replay mode unit sprites ar
20090908 02:03:38< wesbot> e sometimes not drawn, appearing as invisible. The unit's halo is shown though, 
20090908 02:03:41< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?14263
20090908 02:03:43< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=6616
20090908 02:03:50< alink> ^ If someone has 1.7.5 at hand and trunk (>r38374), I suspect that bug is fixed. At least, seems to work here.
20090908 02:04:56< alink> in fact, i almost expected r38374 to cause it but it's post 1.7.5
20090908 02:05:21< Crab_> fendrin: also, when olurf appears, the player gets access to dwarven recall list
20090908 02:13:07< CIA-62> alink * r38494 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20090908 02:13:07< CIA-62> Move the new hardcoded indentation for race to themes.cfg (for main sidebar)
20090908 02:13:07< CIA-62> (but still hardcoded for dialogs as always with this stuff)
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20090908 03:30:45< CIA-62> espreon * r38495 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added the Spanish overlay for AoI's map.
20090908 03:33:11< CIA-62> alink * r38496 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20090908 03:33:11< CIA-62> Add a "terrain def.: 60%" (with color) to the main sidebar
20090908 03:33:11< CIA-62> to give more visibility to this important stat and because the topbar defense is really not nice.
20090908 03:34:12< alink> But not sure about the name "terrain def.". I wanted just "defense" but beginners may not understand that it's related to the underlying terrain
20090908 03:34:39< CIA-62> espreon * r38497 /trunk/ (8 files in 8 dirs): Ran set-properties on localized images.
20090908 03:39:25< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I just sent a long-ish email to the cairo ML
20090908 03:39:47< corn> crab: back now, but you're gone
20090908 03:43:58< CIA-62> alink * r38498 /trunk/data/themes/ (default.cfg experimental.cfg): 
20090908 03:43:58< CIA-62> Uniformize MP info in sidebars from dialog and main screen
20090908 03:43:58< CIA-62> Now both uses the more compact "moves:"
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20090908 04:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 91 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090908 08:47:48< stikonas> trunk does not compile for me
20090908 08:51:31< stikonas> alink: ↑
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20090908 09:15:16< YogiHH> hello
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20090908 10:24:57< Ivanovic> moin
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20090908 10:38:40< CIA-62> soliton * r38499 /trunk/data/themes/experimental.cfg: fixed end turn button placement
20090908 10:38:41< CIA-62> soliton * r38500 /trunk/src/ (reports.cpp reports.hpp): 
20090908 10:38:41< CIA-62> completed unit_defense addition of r38496
20090908 10:38:41< CIA-62> alink please check
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20090908 10:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 90 bugs, 243 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090908 11:09:36< CIA-62> fendrin * r38501 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/05_Saurian_Treasury.cfg: LoW 05: After capturing the gold the image overlay for the carrier is removed.
20090908 11:14:02< euschn> YogiHH: I think I have found the source of certain [unit]s appearing inside the leaders [unit] tag in savegames: unit has a member cfg_, which stores the config to build the unit from mostly unchanged. so if there are some [unit] tags in a scenario [side], those get added to the leaders cfg_ and remain there forever
20090908 11:14:41< euschn> do you think it is save to just cfg_.clear_children("unit") in the unit ctor? i can see those [unit] tags inside the leader config used anywhere else
20090908 11:14:53< euschn> s/can/cant
20090908 11:18:04< YogiHH> euschn: Hmm, i think those were important for start-of-scenario-saves, where there was no snapshot and no replay_start. I'd suggest you take them out, and play two campaign scenarios. If you can load all saves alright and the replays work fine, that should be it.
20090908 11:19:06< euschn> ill have a try at it
20090908 11:19:55< YogiHH> euschn: atm, for start-of-scenario we store the recall list within replay_start, right?
20090908 11:21:05< euschn> YogiHH: yes. for the start of scenario save, the recall list from the snapshot of the previous scenario is stored in replay_start of the new scenariostart save
20090908 11:22:11< YogiHH> euschn: alright, then i don't expect any difficulties with this. Please also check if the recall list is correct in the second scenario, as this will be the most likely cause for failure.
20090908 11:22:21< euschn> mhm, will do
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20090908 11:56:40< euschn> YogiHH: the change seems fine, will commit
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20090908 12:00:47< CIA-62> euschn * r38502 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: removed unneeded [unit] tags in unit.cfg_
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20090908 12:37:03< fendrin> euschn: [store_unit] save_id=foo ... is this possible?
20090908 12:39:30< CIA-62> torangan * r38503 /trunk/ (53 files in 28 dirs): added vietnamese translation
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20090908 13:49:18< euschn> fendrin: save_id (not id) is associated with a side, not a single unit, so id say no. [store_unit]id=foo... could work, but im not a wml expert
20090908 13:51:27< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38504 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/langs.php: Vietnamese is back...
20090908 13:53:05< euschn> fendrin: then again, looking at game_events.cpp:2438, it seems the only valid filters are x,y, and 'recall'
20090908 14:04:12< fendrin> euschn: Normally you need to specify a variable to be stored in. variable= . I would like to store to a save_id (That may not exist now) instead. Is it possible to do that?
20090908 14:05:05< fendrin> euschn: To prepare recall lists for sides that appear in later scenarios.
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20090908 14:21:56< CIA-62> fendrin * r38505 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/low-macros.cfg: 
20090908 14:21:56< CIA-62> LoW: WINTER_MASK macro transforms the new terrains.
20090908 14:21:56< CIA-62> New village terrains added to the ownership macros.
20090908 14:22:28< knotwork_> it would be useful to be able to prepare recall lists ahead of time so when you promote a unit to a level suitable for them to become a leader you can assign them some troops and leave them behind to hold the map you just too or send them selwhere to do something
20090908 14:22:33< CIA-62> fendrin * r38506 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (02_Hostile_mountains.cfg 23_End_of_War.cfg): LoW: Made wmllint quiet.
20090908 14:23:03< knotwork_> s/too/took/ s/selwhere/elsewhere/
20090908 14:23:41< knotwork_> being able to also assign them gold to go with that would be nice too
20090908 14:24:12< fendrin> knotwork_: You can already do that by storing to variables. But it is hacky to restore a side from the variables.
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20090908 14:24:41< knotwork_> last time I tried to mess with sides it was a mess so I think I agree on that
20090908 14:27:21< knotwork_> I am thinking along the lines of knowing for all maps constituting the reagion at hand or the continent or world what leader(s) are there with what recall lists how much gold and what recruiting options, initially probably assuming they hold whole map so not need to detail which villages
20090908 14:28:02< knotwork_> using a zone of control kind of idea of having buffer zones between such "units" of different sides
20090908 14:29:49< fendrin> knotwork_: You are talking about persistence through multiplayer scenarios?
20090908 14:30:43< knotwork_> yes, and/or submitted saves from completion of single-player scenarios
20090908 14:32:08< euschn> fendrin: if i understand you correctly, thats exactly what [side]save_id currently does: store a whole recall list for future scenarios
20090908 14:32:15< knotwork_> strategic decisions first for any gold to move from one leader to another or a leader to move from map to map then when enemies come close to each other that creates option for battle, with some AI or forrmula way to resolve it if none of the players bother to play it
20090908 14:32:33< euschn> you can assign that recall list to any side you want by using the same save_id
20090908 14:33:51< fendrin> euschn: Right, but it has several side effects. For example the player's are bugging my why there are empty sides in the scenarios statistics.
20090908 14:34:24< fendrin> euschn: I can't define sides on the fly. They must be defined at prestart.
20090908 14:35:30< fendrin> euschn: reading or writing to save_id is currently only possible if there is a side defined for the id.
20090908 14:36:00< euschn> fendrin: correct
20090908 14:36:38< euschn> fendrin: having empty sides is currently the only way to have persistent sides that "pause" for a number of scenarios and then appear again
20090908 14:36:52< euschn> you have to store them in the savegames somehow
20090908 14:37:22< euschn> though actually, those do not even get teams assigned when playing the game, they just remain in the save file
20090908 14:37:28< fendrin> euschn: If I pause a side for a scenario that side's recall list is lost?
20090908 14:38:30< euschn> no. e.g.:
20090908 14:40:01< euschn> fendrin: say you have your side with save_id=fendrin for scenario1, you win and store some recalls. in scenario2, you might play with a different team/leader, which has save_id=other. if you want your recalls from scenario1 back, youd just have to use save_id=fendrin in scenario3
20090908 14:40:54< euschn> meanwhile, the recalls of 'other' remain in the save files in case they will be reused in scenario x
20090908 14:41:47< fendrin> Ah cool.
20090908 14:42:31< euschn> fendrin: thats why i thought save_id is doing just what you asked for
20090908 14:44:25< fendrin> euschn: The side interface to the save_id persistence world is quite unhandy.
20090908 14:44:41< fendrin> for some purposes.
20090908 14:44:47< euschn> can you explain that?
20090908 14:48:21< fendrin> Let's say I want to avoid the definement of dummy side just for write/read from a side_id. I store in variables. The side in the target scenario where I want to use the recall list must be initialized with no_leader=yes. Then there is wml code for the installing of the leader and his team. There is workaround code needed for the case that the variable is empty. This is medium complex wml coding but every time a bug is discovered in that 
20090908 14:48:23< fendrin> system the change is high that the fix will break save game compatability. 
20090908 14:49:19< fendrin> All of that could be avoided by just storing the units to a side_id instead of a variable.
20090908 14:49:50< fendrin> Without the need to define a side in the scenario where the team is splitted.
20090908 14:54:07< euschn> fendrin: is see how that can get complicated - i get it thats how several campaigns work at the moment. however, if you jsut use save_id like in my example above, you wouldnt need dummy sides. there would be no side definition for 'fendrin' in scenario2 and none for 'other' in 1 and 3
20090908 14:54:19< euschn> or is what you want to do more complex than my example?
20090908 14:55:23< euschn> fendrin: of course it cannot do everything. I think if you wanted to merge 'fendrin' and 'other' at some point, youd still have to use variables for one of the sides
20090908 15:02:27< fendrin> euschn: LoW scenario 19. After that scenario Landar splitts of and fights against his former ally Kalenz. The side of Kalenz is still played by the human. Landar's part of the army is stored to a variable. I would need a dummy side in that scenario to initialise Landar's side. Or that is how it is done now I have hacky workaround code in the next scenario where Landar appears.
20090908 15:08:15< euschn> fendrin: what exactly is landars part of the army? a part of the players recall list, or a 2nd recall list of a 2nd side that is palyed in every other scenario?
20090908 15:08:48< fendrin> euschn: A part of the players recall list.
20090908 15:10:11< fendrin> euschn: A side attribute hidden that prevents the side to appear in the statistics would be enough for my purpose.
20090908 15:11:39< euschn> fendrin: if its a part of the recall list, then [store_unit]save_id=foo... would not do the trick, would it?
20090908 15:11:59< euschn> fendrin: i dont really know how the statistics code works unfortunately
20090908 15:12:23< fendrin> store_unit save_id=foo would do the trick even better.
20090908 15:14:04< euschn> fendrin: why? you dont want to store the whole recall list to get landars army, but just a part, isnt it?
20090908 15:14:37< euschn> i figured store_unit save_id=foo would be storing all units of a certain side
20090908 15:18:02< fendrin> euschn: you are talking about [store_unit] variable=landar_store [filter] save_id=Kalenz which would save all units on the side of Kalenz.
20090908 15:19:31< fendrin> euschn: I am talking about [store_unit] save_id=Landar [filter] whatever which would store the matching filter to a recall list that must not be bound to a side in that scenario.
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20090908 15:20:28< fendrin> s/must/needn't
20090908 15:23:26< euschn> fendrin: I am not sure how that would work. as far as I know, a save_id/recall list is always bound to a side
20090908 15:23:45< euschn> so i guess thats what you would like to be changed?
20090908 15:25:06< fendrin> euschn: Wait, if a save_id is always bound to a side. It's not possible to load a former side 2 as side 6 in later scenario?
20090908 15:26:19< euschn> fendrin: erm no, I was not clear there: a recall list is bound to a save_id. if you assign a side a specific save_id, it gets the corresponding recall list
20090908 15:26:44< euschn> of course, you can assign that save_id to side 2 in one scenario and to side 6 in another
20090908 15:29:04< fendrin> I want to bring units to a save_id without the need of having a side assigned to that id.
20090908 15:35:53< euschn> fendrin: ok, I finally understood the problem then. I think that is not possible without considerable changes to how sides/save_ids work. to add something to a recall list associated with a save_id, that save_id needs to have a side/team
20090908 15:36:18< euschn> i guess it would be easier to add a key to side WML to not have sides show up in statistics
20090908 15:38:34< fendrin> euschn: In the savefile a side is not much more than a variable filled with units.
20090908 15:39:03< euschn> correct
20090908 15:44:05< fendrin> euschn: I guess you are right. I will use dummy sides to put your code in use and fill a FR for hidden sides.
20090908 15:44:33< euschn> ok
20090908 15:51:22< fendrin> euschn: There is already a hidden in side. Sorry for wasting your time.
20090908 15:52:26< euschn> fendrin: no problem :). I learned some more about wml through it
20090908 15:54:02< fendrin> :-)
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20090908 16:15:30< alink> hi, yeah sorry for the trunk's compil break.
20090908 16:16:43< alink> indeed forget to commit files. ( had in my local copy since some times, so I started to ignore them :-/ )
20090908 16:17:34< alink> Soliton: and thanks for the fix, and nice to have exactly mirrored my local changes, now i can update instead of commit, with the same effect :)
20090908 16:18:42< alink> ah and thanks for the theme tweaking too
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20090908 16:46:06< Soliton> alink: ah, cool. :-)
20090908 16:47:59< Soliton> alink: i'm not sure it's a particularly interesting stat though since you already see it when you move on the hex.
20090908 16:48:41< Soliton> alink: also, i didn't add it to the dfool theme since then it breaks for some units on 800x600.
20090908 16:50:46< Ivanovic> alink: i guess you have checked that 800x600 still works nicely eg for units like the elvish shide?
20090908 16:50:56< Soliton> yes.
20090908 16:51:08< Ivanovic> (you have probably not checked if 800x480 is still fine though)
20090908 16:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 89 bugs, 243 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090908 16:57:54< alink> yeah i checked 800x600, but not 480. I can still remove it there (or something else like level) if it's cause a problem
20090908 16:58:11< alink> Soliton: the main use is to check defense of enemy
20090908 16:58:53< alink> or when you attack adjacent unit (no mousehover hex info in that case)
20090908 16:59:05< Soliton> alink: wouldn't you check that in the attack selection dialog?
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20090908 16:59:48< alink> well, this force you to attack the unit just to see its defense (which triggers move, more clicks etct)
20090908 17:01:22< alink> the idea is that when you check stats of a unit (hp, weapons damage, etc) in sidebar, one important one (def%) was missing there
20090908 17:02:24< alink> and we already displayed some location specific info (invisibility for unit with ambush)
20090908 17:03:33< Soliton> about the move triggering.. it'd be nice if the move was only done after you accepted the attack so you don't have to worry about ambushes.
20090908 17:05:21< alink> i totally agree, it's some work though, it badly use nested functions and need to simulate a location change for ability location based
20090908 17:06:25< alink> one thing that i consider trying is a 'skip undo move' option, easy to implement and has other uses
20090908 17:06:26< Soliton> ahh, yeah...
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20090908 17:10:34< alink> about undo and just for fun, ask boucman if it's easy to make undo "rewind" move animation (walk backward) and check if not ridiculous
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20090908 17:11:16< alink> mmh no it's probably too complicated for complex anim WML
20090908 17:32:39< CIA-62> alink * r38507 /trunk/src/display.cpp: Fix segfault with a unused ThemeWML feature (postfix+tooltip)
20090908 17:33:20< alink> this impossible-to-work code was probably never tested :-/
20090908 17:34:11 * alink begin to understand the source of the "black voodoo" instability of ThemeWML
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20090908 19:45:49< Aethaeryn> noy: I'd donate if Wesnoth were non-profit.
20090908 19:46:04< Aethaeryn> I think the current Donate page might scare some people away, based on all the disclaimers and the way it's written.
20090908 19:46:20< noy> hmmm thanks 
20090908 19:46:21< Aethaeryn> For instance, I wouldn't know if the donation went *to* helping Wesnoth, or to Dave taking a vacation in Paris.
20090908 19:46:27< Aethaeryn> Under the current system.
20090908 19:46:53< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Donate
20090908 19:47:32< Aethaeryn> "Donations should generally be considered as personal gifts to David, and definitely are not tax deductible." as well as "Use of donations is at his discretion, *but generally* they will be used to purchase hardware or other goods or services that support Wesnoth development."
20090908 19:47:59< Aethaeryn> For someone prelaw such as myself, enjoying to read fine print, those things set off red flags. Imagine if I didn't know the Wesnoth project, just enjoyed the game.
20090908 19:48:40< Aethaeryn> Contrary to possible intentions, this sentence also could cause issues with attracting donors: "If we cannot find a use for some funds, they may be donated to a charitable organization."
20090908 19:49:30< Aethaeryn> A charity being good is subjective. An athiest's money could go to a church, or a conservative's money to Planned Parenthood.
20090908 19:49:42< noy> okay you made your point
20090908 19:50:12< Aethaeryn> Just saying, that page could probably be rewritten after incorporation.
20090908 19:50:38< noy> I got your suggestion after two lines
20090908 19:50:55< noy> I didnt need 9
20090908 19:50:55< Aethaeryn> Eh, I tend to be wordy.
20090908 19:51:25< Aethaeryn> I blame school. The papers you write for school encourage writing for length instead of writing concisely. :)
20090908 19:52:34< blarumyrran> We always had "you must write roughly 2,5 pages", which meant writing with broad handwriting instead
20090908 19:52:39< CIA-62> crab * r38508 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: LoW 7 : Let Galtrid share keep with player, while still being passive.
20090908 19:52:54< Aethaeryn> Almost always typed for me.
20090908 19:53:10< Aethaeryn> In fact, I don't remember a non-typed out-of-class assignment in high school.
20090908 19:53:20< Aethaeryn> Handwriting's a dead art.
20090908 19:53:23< noy> your not wordy, you;re loquacious
20090908 19:54:57< Aethaeryn> Thankfully, I never got into the habbit of writing with big words.
20090908 19:55:43< Crab_> fendrin: what do you think about adding some generic enemy leader death speeches to LoW ? i.e. a macro which will add a die event to leader of the specified side, which will choose a one line (at random) from a list of ~10 phrases and say it.
20090908 19:57:29< Crab_> s/die/last breath
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20090908 20:08:58< CIA-62> crab * r38509 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/02_Hostile_mountains.cfg: LoW 2: fix bug with 'number of trolls killed by elves' being counted incorrectly
20090908 20:09:49< Espreon> ilor: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14266
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20090908 20:15:05< mordante> servus
20090908 20:15:26< Espreon> Hola.
20090908 20:15:30< Crab_> hi mordante
20090908 20:15:40< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090908 20:15:42< mordante> hi Espreon 
20090908 20:18:01< mordante> Crab_, there's a gsoc idea to add schemas to wml
20090908 20:18:31< Crab_> mordante: yes, I've read it some time ago
20090908 20:18:40< mordante> ok
20090908 20:18:51< Crab_> it'll be a good thing
20090908 20:18:58< mordante> I agree
20090908 20:19:26< mordante> alink, by placing items in an anonymous namespace it can't be used outside that .cpp file
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20090908 20:24:08< fendrin> Crab_: That is a good idea. I thought about nested events. A event that handles the deadth of a leader defines a new event for the next and so on.
20090908 20:24:54< Crab_> fendrin: we can use a variable "index_of_death_speech" - it'll be simpler :)
20090908 20:25:53< Crab_> fendrin: but that requires shuffling the list at campaign start...
20090908 20:26:03< Crab_> fendrin: so,a pure random choice is even simpler
20090908 20:26:20< fendrin> Crab_: No, using nested events is the simpliest way to go.
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20090908 20:27:18< fendrin> But it would not be random.
20090908 20:27:22< Crab_> fendrin: will you make it different each time the campaign is played ?
20090908 20:29:04< fendrin> Crab_: No that would be static. But making such a thing random isn't quite noticeable by the player. That is a major problem of UtBS. It's overdesigned. There is a scenario with 12000 lines of code and most of the code is doing some background stuff that is hard to notice by the player.
20090908 20:29:19< Crab_> fendrin: ok
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20090908 20:30:17< Crab_> fendrin: also, I've asked earlier but haven't seen the answer: what do you think about 'enabling DKs new recruitment for both sides LoW 2' + 'decreasing size of both LoW 2 castles' ?
20090908 20:31:06< Ivanovic> Rhonda: what is the status of the 1.6.5 debian binary?
20090908 20:31:09< Crab_> the recruitment works there and provides for more interesting gameplay, especially if the ai is allowed to 'react' to player/other ai actions (hence the need for a smaller castle size, to avoid spending all the gold in 1 go'
20090908 20:31:14< YogiHH> Can someone please have a look at multiplayer_connect.cpp line 1535? Doesn't the following line make that one obsolete?
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20090908 20:32:07< Crab_> YogiHH: yes
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20090908 20:32:48< Crab_> for config::operator= does a clear()
20090908 20:33:24< YogiHH> thought so
20090908 20:34:46< fendrin> Crab_: Feel free to do that.
20090908 20:34:54< Ivanovic> deekay, corn: just as reminder, please do not forget to upload your SoC sample code to goolge (soft target date: next monday)
20090908 20:35:07< Ivanovic> corn, deekay: how to do so: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/how-to-provide-google-with-sample-code
20090908 20:35:36< Crab_> fendrin: ok, I'll do than. note that there'll still be no whelps on medium/hard - AI recruits them only if it has not enough gold for something bigger :)
20090908 20:36:09< CIA-62> crab * r38510 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 3: fixed issue with fog revealer being left on the map due to wrong location of {UNCLEAR_FOG} macro
20090908 20:36:11< CIA-62> crab * r38511 /trunk/data/ai/scenarios/scenario-test_move_to_targets.cfg: fix obsolete AI macro
20090908 20:36:40< Crab_> wesbot: log 15523
20090908 20:36:41< wesbot> jhinrichs * r15523 : Fixes most problems with savegames that have been introduced by the last changes. Also supposed to fix bug #8389 and bug #8045.
20090908 20:36:44< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=15523
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20090908 20:37:08< Crab_> YogiHH: note the way you've done it originally
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20090908 20:39:10< YogiHH> Crab_: ugh, that was when i was still a greenhorn ;-)
20090908 20:39:24< YogiHH> Crab_: I am going to fix that again
20090908 20:39:26< Crab_> wesbot: log 15523
20090908 20:39:27< wesbot> jhinrichs * r15523 : Fixes most problems with savegames that have been introduced by the last changes. Also supposed to fix bug #8389 and bug #8045.
20090908 20:39:30< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=15523
20090908 20:40:26< Crab_> oops, wrong #
20090908 20:40:34< Crab_> wesbot: 14042
20090908 20:40:43< Crab_> wesbot: log 14042
20090908 20:40:44< wesbot> jhinrichs * r14042 : Reverts changes from 13892 (savegame patch), since it causes more problems and i can't care for it for at least a week.
20090908 20:40:47< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=14042
20090908 20:41:36< Crab_> so, it has flapped a number of times...
20090908 20:42:03< YogiHH> Crab_: yeah, that was a busy time back then :)
20090908 20:42:13< Crab_> YogiHH: but now it works :)
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20090908 20:55:54< Crab_> fendrin: also, another suggestion. While playing LoW 1-7, I've reloaded 1-2 times per scenario, because of losing loyal units. (e.g., in LoW 2 I lost 48/48 hp L2 Anduilas on forest due to 2 L2 trolls hitting 4/4 times). So, I was thinking about a way to reduce the incentive to reload, and I'm thinking about 'add more loyal units to later LoW scenarios, if the player has <N loyal units at that point'. 
20090908 20:56:33< alink> mordante: yes but in that specific case, the class is not declared in the header, thus you can't refer to it from other file. So my question was: the anon namespace has no compiler utility here, unless you want to indicate something to humans ?
20090908 20:56:49< Crab_> fendrin: E.g. "if the player comes to LoW 11 with no loyals left, allow him to find a new loyal unit there" What do you think?
20090908 20:58:44< Crab_> fendrin: this will help with both replayability, and balancing. Currently, loyal units are gained only on LoW 1,3,4 so, losing them early changes difficulty of later scenarios.
20090908 20:59:29< alink> mordante: mmh wait, maybe i miss something, if you don't use "static" and things like that, when does something can be used in other cpp files than the one where declared ?
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20090908 21:12:14< mordante> alink, you don't need to put something in a header to be able to use it in another cpp file extern foo; there will also do the trick
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20090908 21:12:45< mordante> but when in an anonymous namespace you can't use it with some extern magic
20090908 21:13:24< mordante> the difference with static is that the object in an anonymous namespace has external linkage (but no way to link it)
20090908 21:13:33< alink_> mordante: ok, extern was included into my ' "static" and things like that  ' ;-)
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20090908 21:14:11< mordante> something like it ;-)
20090908 21:14:29< mordante> not really sure what the fun of external linkage is if you can't use it
20090908 21:15:07< alink_> but simple class declaration in a cpp are not reachable by other cpp, so need of anon namespace for them
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20090908 21:16:46< mordante> not really but I sometimes also use it, but no really good reason
20090908 21:19:05< fendrin> Crab_: You will have to tell the player about that mechanism. If not he will saveload anyway.
20090908 21:19:41< Crab_> fendrin: yes, something as message dialog with "foreword from campaign creators" at start of 1st scenario.
20090908 21:20:31< Crab_> fendrin: for extra replayability, those later loyals can be not elvish fighters/archers, but other troops (e.g. orge, or a human mage)
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20090908 21:22:37< fendrin> Crab_: Adding another loyal unit if the player has lost many of them is a good thing to do. But replacing every loss of them and making it a campaign foreword is too much.
20090908 21:23:04 * alink__ has often connection problem at these hours of the day :-(
20090908 21:23:59< alink__> [21:14:32] <alink_> unless support of weird compiler or trick like that
20090908 21:24:00< alink__> [21:14:46] <alink_> *so no need of anon namesapce
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20090908 21:24:41< Crab_> fendrin: well 1) the loss is not immediately replaced - it's replaced 'in the next story arc'  2) leveled unit can be replaced with unleveled unit 
20090908 21:24:46< CIA-62> fendrin * r38512 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/19_Costly_Revenge.cfg: LoW 19: Fixed a dialogue in which Landar speaks with himself like Golum.
20090908 21:24:53< YogiHH> anyone: do we ship an official mp campaign in trunk?
20090908 21:24:57< mordante> alink__, what do you exactly mean?
20090908 21:25:19< fendrin> YogiHH: No not yet.
20090908 21:26:21< fendrin> YogiHH: But I have one lying around. That could be polished.
20090908 21:27:04< fendrin> YogiHH: Of corse this is to late for it to include before 1.8.
20090908 21:27:39< alink__> mordante: nothing specifically, but Crab_ mentioned the possibility that it was added for compiler/warning reasons. Since it was an old one from Sapient, I thought it was possible
20090908 21:29:19< Crab_> fendrin: also note the following trick: after LoW 8, we can ask the player, "which loyal units do you want to leave behind to defend the Ka'lian?", then, 1) the player will be able to have new loyals join him instead of old  2)  any units that the player leaves behind will rejoin him for, say, LoW 22 Northern Battle (without any limit on loyals)
20090908 21:30:35< Crab_> fendrin: LoW is long, so making 8-14 and 17-23 somewhat a 'fresh start' will be a good thing
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20090908 21:34:13< fendrin> Crab_: A new set of loyal units in each of that periods?
20090908 21:34:19< Crab_> fendrin: yes
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20090908 21:34:42< Soliton> Crab_, fendrin: i'd rather hint to more loyals in the death event of a loyal.
20090908 21:35:02< Soliton> that's when you care not when the campaign starts.
20090908 21:35:15< Crab_> Soliton: yes, a good idea
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20090908 21:36:13< mordante> alink__, it shouldn't but quess some style guide mention to use anonymous namespaces when something needs to be hidden
20090908 21:36:17< fendrin> Soliton: It's hard to hint to that game mechanism without using the narrator.
20090908 21:36:46< Soliton> yes, not sure how best to do it.
20090908 21:36:48< Crab_> Soliton, fendrin: from a 'out-of-game' perspective ? "note: one of your loyal units has fallen in battle. we encourage you not to reload - life is life, and even most loyal units can die. You will be able to pick new loyal units to replace old ones further in the campaign"
20090908 21:37:23< Soliton> if nothing better comes up that's fine i suppose.
20090908 21:38:19< fendrin> Crab_: There is already a die event for loyal units. You can add that there.
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20090908 21:39:12< Crab_> fendrin: ok. I'll do so, and mark with TODO esr in case he'll want to change the wording.
20090908 21:39:20< fendrin> Crab_: We can leave all loyal units maybe except Andulias to protect the Ka'lian. But they will join again for scenario 14.
20090908 21:39:51< Crab_> fendrin: yes, that's good
20090908 21:40:13< esr> Crab_: What do you need me for?
20090908 21:41:02< Crab_> esr: in LoW, we want to do an out-of-game hint to a player if any of his loyal units die. Something like: "note: one of your loyal units has fallen in battle. we encourage you not to reload - life is life, and even most loyal units can die. You will be able to meet new loyal units to replace old ones further in the campaign"
20090908 21:41:24< esr> I see.
20090908 21:41:30< Soliton> well, ideally it would be an in-game hint, of course.
20090908 21:41:43< esr> Why in LoW, in particular? 
20090908 21:41:46< Crab_> Soliton: reloading is out-of-game )
20090908 21:41:54< fendrin> Out of roleplaying
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20090908 21:42:38< fendrin> esr: Because we want to check for the amount of loyal units the player owns and only allow them to be replaced if there are some missing.
20090908 21:42:40< Crab_> esr: because we will add a new set of loyal units to join the player for later LoW scenarios, if he's out of loyals at that point.
20090908 21:42:49< mordante> why would we need a hint for that?
20090908 21:43:11< Soliton> mordante: to encourage players to play on when they lose a loyal unit.
20090908 21:43:21< fendrin> mordante: Most campaigns don't have that mechanism. If you use the loyals you are more ore less screwed up.
20090908 21:43:44< fendrin> mordante: So the player will surely reload if he looses a loyal.
20090908 21:44:07< mordante> ? IIRC several campaigns have loyals you can loose without loosing
20090908 21:44:08< fendrin> s/use/lose
20090908 21:44:30< mordante> and if a unit isn't allowed to die it's in the objectives
20090908 21:45:09< Crab_> mordante: because losing a loyal (and 'your faithful service will be remembered' message) is a signal for player 'hey, you lost a unit that you'll be unable to replace, it'll make your life harder for all the campaign. you should reload'
20090908 21:45:25< Soliton> who said something about losing the campaign?
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20090908 21:45:45< Soliton> we couldn't encourage anyone if they weren't allowed to play on in the first place.
20090908 21:46:03< silene> hi
20090908 21:46:10< fendrin> hi silene
20090908 21:46:15< Crab_> hi silene
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20090908 21:46:39< mordante> hi silene 
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20090908 21:47:33< mordante> Crab_, loosing about every unit makes winning harder
20090908 21:47:55< mordante> IMO it's a bit silly to warn the player not to save load :-/
20090908 21:48:08< mordante> but I don't want to make a big fuss about it
20090908 21:48:28< Crab_> mordante: loyals 1) do not need unkeep 2) are autorecalled - they're much more important that even L3 units which are plentiful.
20090908 21:49:00< Soliton> losing a loyal unit especially early on in a campaign makes it much much harder as if you lost any ordenary unit.
20090908 21:49:53< Crab_> mordante: and with LoW, this is especially important since a large enough % of players will lose anduilas in LoW 2 due to lucky L2 trolls. Losing a loyal on level 2 on 17-level campaign is not good, and, if player isn't given a hint 'playing on will show you loyal units that you'll not be able to see otherwise', he'll almost surely reload.
20090908 21:50:32< CIA-62> fendrin * r38513 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/09_Bounty_hunters.cfg: LoW 09: Leave all loyal units behind at the Kalian except Anduilas.
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20090908 21:51:41< Crab_> fendrin: then, on LoW 9, we need to 'add a way to replace Anduilas with other loyal if he's dead'
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20090908 21:52:03< Crab_> fendrin: and, add a few more loyals on scenarios 10-13
20090908 21:52:13< fendrin> Crab_: We can take the ogre in scenario 7
20090908 21:52:27< Soliton> btw, losing some unit is certainly much easier then not losing any. at least with the current AI.
20090908 21:52:38< Crab_> why in scenario 7 ?
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20090908 21:54:19< fendrin> Crab_: I thought that scenario 7 could benefit from that ogre release event.
20090908 21:56:37< Crab_> fendrin: well, IMO, scenarios 7 and 14 are 'big battle scenarios', and should be kept as such..
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20090908 21:57:45< Crab_> fendrin: what about scenario 9 or scenario 10 ?
20090908 22:00:11< Crab_> fendrin: using 'scenario >7' is also better because it avoid the situation 'both new loyal unit and Anduilas are killed in scenario 7'
20090908 22:01:11< Crab_> fendrin: so, it's better for balancing - we can be sure that player will have exactly 1 loyal unit at specified point of scenario (9 or 10)
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20090908 22:01:41< Crab_> corn: around ?
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20090908 22:05:41< Crab_> fendrin: also, what do you think about 'fully disabling turn limit in LoW 7 and resetting the player's gold at start LoW 9' ?
20090908 22:07:10< Crab_> fendrin: this will allow to increase the orc's power and income in LoW 7 to make it more like 'a big and epic battle', and will allow to have a balanced start at LoW 9.
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20090908 22:09:37< Crab_> fendrin: besides, at this point both orcs and elves have committed all forces in the region to the battle, so no reinforcements are expected (except for Olurf and/or saurians, of course)
20090908 22:12:10< CIA-62> mordante * r38514 /trunk/src/gui/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
20090908 22:12:10< CIA-62> Add support for a grid in a window definition.
20090908 22:12:10< CIA-62> This allows to add scrollbars to a window which in turn could avoid
20090908 22:12:10< CIA-62> resize failures. (Support for the latter hasn't been added yet.)
20090908 22:12:18< CIA-62> mordante * r38515 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
20090908 22:12:18< CIA-62> Moved the easy close behaviour to the window.
20090908 22:12:18< CIA-62> At some places click dismiss is used which will be the new name of the
20090908 22:12:18< CIA-62> feature since it's a more fitting name.
20090908 22:12:25< CIA-62> mordante * r38516 /trunk/ (28 files in 4 dirs): 
20090908 22:12:25< CIA-62> Rename easy_close to click_dismiss.
20090908 22:12:25< CIA-62> I never was really happy with the old name, but didn't have a better
20090908 22:12:25< CIA-62> alternative. Now I have so rename the stuff.
20090908 22:12:28< CIA-62> mordante * r38517 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/control.cpp: 
20090908 22:12:31< CIA-62> Remove a todo remark.
20090908 22:12:33< CIA-62> The problem is caused by sending a char to lexical_cast which doesn't do
20090908 22:12:35< CIA-62> what's exactly expected.
20090908 22:12:37< CIA-62> mordante * r38518 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: Changed get_widget calls to NEW_find_widget.
20090908 22:12:40< CIA-62> mordante * r38519 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_player_info.cpp: gui/dialogs/lobby_player_info.cpp
20090908 22:12:43< CIA-62> mordante * r38520 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/widget.hpp: Remove the unused get_widget function.
20090908 22:12:47< CIA-62> mordante * r38521 /trunk/src/unit_types.hpp: Include cleanup.
20090908 22:12:53< CIA-62> mordante * r38522 /trunk/src/ (construct_dialog.cpp display.hpp): Include cleanup.
20090908 22:12:55< CIA-62> mordante * r38523 /trunk/src/unit.hpp: Include cleanup.
20090908 22:14:19< Crab_> fendrin: also, this would remove the disappointment when the player loses on 'time over' while having a clear combat advantage
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20090908 22:18:16< Crab_> fendrin: also, this will make LoW 7 'not just a bigger version of LoW 3'
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20090908 22:22:39< YogiHH> fendrin: i just need one to test bug #14241
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20090908 22:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.5 released, announcing on Tuesday or Wednesday | 90 bugs, 243 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090908 23:23:23< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 09 00:00:51 2009