--- Log opened Thu Sep 24 00:00:09 2009
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20090924 00:23:58 * AI0867 kicks CIA-62 
20090924 00:23:59< CIA-62> ow
20090924 00:24:25< Crab_> AI0867: at least it 'ow's without delays :))
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20090924 00:47:59< ilor> marvelous. I killed the window manager accidentally
20090924 00:48:10< ilor> at least wesnoth closed along with everything else
20090924 00:49:33< ilor> loonycyborg: do you remember where you were getting all the libs for a win build of wesnoth?
20090924 00:50:01< loonycyborg> Mostly I've built them myself.
20090924 00:50:19< ilor> expected as much
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20090924 00:57:43< loonycyborg> ilor: Actually I've assembled all my compile stuff(header, libs) in an SDK. It only needs to be zipped and uploaded to some appropriate place.
20090924 00:57:53< loonycyborg> The question is where's that place..
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20090924 00:58:28< ilor> loonycyborg: anywhere where I can reach it works for me ;)
20090924 00:59:08< loonycyborg> I can upload it to files.wesnoth.org/hidden/win
20090924 00:59:40< ilor> I'd be very grateful
20090924 01:01:39< ilor> oh, that's just fscking awesome. I can't install Mingw MSYS, dies on postinstall with a 'Couldn't reserve space for cygwin's heap'
20090924 01:03:29< ilor> windows is a thoroughly hopeless enviroment to get any programming work done involving anything gcc-related
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20090924 01:05:49< loonycyborg> Windows *7* :P MSYS installed for me fine on winXP
20090924 01:06:11< CIA-62> ai0867 * r38782 /trunk/data/multiplayer/eras.cfg: Don't show hidden sides in the end-of-turns comparison
20090924 01:06:15< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38781 /trunk/po/ (24 files in 24 dirs): updated Czech translation
20090924 01:06:22< CIA-62> crab * r38783 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: LoW 7: changed elven team_name to kalenz, as rest of LoW, and LoW character macroses contain this team-name. Fix bug with Galtrid being an enemy in LoW 7 (this caused that scenario to be not winnable).
20090924 01:06:31< shadowmaster> ilor: how do you kill the windows window manager? :/
20090924 01:06:53< ilor> loonycyborg: nah, this apparently is a side effect of some PATH var and windows DLL hell
20090924 01:07:25< ilor> I did briefly have msys here before, with a clean path, and it installed cleanly
20090924 01:07:31< loonycyborg> Though I have no idea why would anyone want to install it..
20090924 01:07:39< loonycyborg> Does windows even have a window manager? :P
20090924 01:08:14< ilor> shadowmaster: in win7 - very simple. be trying to ki;; wesnoth.exe with an admin-level process explorer, hit del then enter twice and have the pointer jump to dwm.exe
20090924 01:08:37< loonycyborg> OK. It's in hidden/win known as Wesnoth-SDK.zip
20090924 01:08:42< ilor> because it couldn't kill wesnoth.exe it decided it'll be good to move the pointer one item down
20090924 01:09:20< ilor> and killing dwm is the equivalent of a good old kill-X on linux, I quite like it actually :D
20090924 01:10:02 * loonycyborg likes killing X too :P
20090924 01:10:13< shadowmaster> ilor: that's intersting, I'll try :)
20090924 01:10:26< ilor> I also use init 0 as a fast shutdown in linux :P
20090924 01:10:49< shadowmaster> that's also surprising since they had moved the window manager into the kernel with NT 4, why would they want to move it to userland again?
20090924 01:11:00< ilor> shadowmaster: fancy UI effects
20090924 01:11:10< shadowmaster> ah, that >.<
20090924 01:11:14< ilor> yeah,
20090924 01:11:46< ilor> loonycyborg: I'd like msys here so I could actually build stuff that requires sh/autotools/make
20090924 01:12:54< loonycyborg> Ah. Yes. I used MSYS to build SDL_foo libs.
20090924 01:13:08< ilor> loonycyborg: thanks, I got the sdk zip
20090924 01:13:15< loonycyborg> np
20090924 01:13:32< ilor> sweet, now the window manager is in some undefined state, some behavior changed slightly
20090924 01:14:15< ilor> I guess it's sweet ol' reboot time -_-;
20090924 01:14:33< shadowmaster> ilor: killing dwm.exe didn't do anything here
20090924 01:14:44< shadowmaster> I guess it's because you are using Aero and I am not?
20090924 01:14:52< ilor> on the upside, I got git svn to work with putty's plink
20090924 01:15:25< ilor> I only had to use SVN_SSH instead of the GIT_SSH that's in the docs and quote the var in a different way -_-
20090924 01:15:38< shadowmaster> on the other hand, the task manager is now kinde enough to let me kill essential system processes if I tell it I really want to. That's funny.
20090924 01:15:49< shadowmaster> like letting me  kill init.
20090924 01:16:04< ilor> shadowmaster: yet I couldn't kill a stubborn wesnoth.exe
20090924 01:16:38< shadowmaster> that's even more funny from MS ^__^
20090924 01:17:16< ilor> from what I can gather there's no real "kill -9" in windows. There's only "ask politely if you can kill the process"
20090924 01:20:10< shadowmaster> I think kill.exe (not included with windows) has such a thing.
20090924 01:20:29< ilor> well process explorer has it too. in theory.
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20090924 01:20:43< shadowmaster> they probably use the same API. then no :P
20090924 01:20:54< ilor> it just doesn't work, the kernel is too retarded
20090924 01:21:13< shadowmaster> I once ran into a situation in which wesnoth became unkillable using Linux 2.6.28 though
20090924 01:21:34< ilor> shadowmaster: ?
20090924 01:21:46< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Not even with SIGKILL?
20090924 01:21:46< shadowmaster> some silly bug, 1.5.x
20090924 01:22:29< shadowmaster> yeah, not even with SIGKILL. For the time being, it was consuming around 90% of the ~ 5 GB RAM+swap memory and still demanding more
20090924 01:22:34< ilor> shadowmaster: unless the bug meant you were unable to get a working console, then it's pretty strange
20090924 01:22:52< shadowmaster> bash was working mysteriously enough, but wesnoth was still draining memory
20090924 01:23:03< ilor> ah yes, running out of memory that way can have strange results
20090924 01:23:10< shadowmaster> ended up with an unresponsive system after killing X
20090924 01:23:45< ilor> shadowmaster: still if you had an active ssh session you could probably still save it ;p
20090924 01:23:49< shadowmaster> fortunately that never made it into a release \o/
20090924 01:24:03< shadowmaster> ilor: ehm yeah, how do I connect to the laptop? :P
20090924 01:24:11< shadowmaster> no other computers or network cable available
20090924 01:24:24< ilor> nah, to connecting probably wouldn't work if you were already out of ram ;p
20090924 01:24:30< ilor> s/to//
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20090924 01:26:34< ilor> ok I'm going to sleep now, night all
20090924 01:26:47< shadowmaster> night ilor 
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20090924 01:45:18< Soliton> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/EasyCoding#Support_for_standalone_multiplayer_scenarios  is that really needed? you can just drop a config file in the addons dir?
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20090924 04:06:13< CIA-62> crab * r38789 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): changelog entries for 'in some of the LoW scenarios, allied AI sides can now be given hints about where their leader should relocate' commits.
20090924 04:06:14< CIA-62> crab * r38787 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: LoW 7: enable control of allied leader goal
20090924 04:06:17< CIA-62> crab * r38785 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 3: enable control of allied leader goal
20090924 04:06:24< CIA-62> crab * r38786 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/06_Acquaintance_in_Need.cfg: LoW 6: enable control of allied leader goal
20090924 04:06:33< CIA-62> crab * r38788 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/17_Breaking_the_siege.cfg: LoW 17: enable control of allied leader goal
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20090924 04:50:06< CIA-62> crab * r38784 /trunk/data/core/macros/ai.cfg: modified AI_CONTROLLER_ALLOW_LEADER_CONTROL macro to show a better menu item description and to allow I18N of menu item description
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20090924 10:27:02< Ivanovic> moin
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20090924 10:44:31< YogiHH> hello
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20090924 12:31:42< Crab_> zookeeper: around ?
20090924 12:37:03< zookeeper> Crab_, sure
20090924 12:37:16< Crab_> I've created AI_CONTROLLER_ALLOW_LEADER_CONTROL macro to add a menu item to allow ordering of allied leaders to move to specific locations. 
20090924 12:37:29< Crab_> I've added this for several LoW scenarios (where I'm sure this is needed). But, this might be handy in other campaigns as well. I.e., there were complains on forums about things like 'AI leader acts stupidly and gets itself killed' in certain scenarios.
20090924 12:38:54< Crab_> so, I think that it's a good idea to change those mainline scenarios where it's appropriate to include such way to control allied leaders (alone or as part of ai controller)
20090924 12:39:28< Crab_> (you can test how it looks, in LoW 7)
20090924 12:41:21< Crab_> i.e. the player is able to, say, ask the allied leader to change keep to another, safe one, or to retreat somewhere far away
20090924 12:43:35< Crab_> more specifically, I'm thinking about NR12 and NR13 (  http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20368 and http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20369 )
20090924 12:43:51< zookeeper> well, the controller still isn't wired in anywhere else than LoW AFAIK
20090924 12:44:04< zookeeper> but yes, i'll take a look at that macro when i put it somewhere
20090924 12:45:28< Crab_> zookeeper: well, that macro doesn't need a controller. it's just a 1-liner to add a menu item. (it has a small todo - the menu item must be shown only to specified player AND only if said leader is alive, but I don't know how to write this in WML )
20090924 12:46:31< zookeeper> a separate menu item not related to the controller? why?
20090924 12:47:08< zookeeper> i mean, that's what the controller is for, why should one option be independent of it?
20090924 12:47:25< Crab_> zookeeper: it can be integrated into ai controller, and, probably, it should be integrated into ai controller. but, it's useful as standalone thing, too, until ai controller is 'ready'.
20090924 12:47:48< zookeeper> ah, well, ok, i guess i should get to work with the controller then :p
20090924 12:48:28< Crab_> zookeeper: so, you're welcome to integrate it into ai controller. that's how we spoken earlier - I make sure that things "work", then show them to you to be put into ai controller.
20090924 12:50:05< Crab_> the macro works by clearing the ai 'leader goal'  and by setting another leader goal to move to specified hex. after ai leader reaches this hex, the goal is automatically removed. while moving, the ai leader will not venture into enemies (as determined by his caution).
20090924 12:52:21< zookeeper> hmh
20090924 12:52:40< zookeeper> that [if] already takes care of checking whether the leader is alive
20090924 12:53:02< Crab_> zookeeper: but, the leader might be killed later
20090924 12:53:16< zookeeper> oh, right
20090924 12:53:20< Crab_> and the macro is called once at scenario (pre)start
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20090924 12:53:39< zookeeper> i see
20090924 12:53:46< Crab_> or, in LoW 3, it's called somewhen later
20090924 12:53:58< zookeeper> yeah, i should be able to incorporate that into the controller itself, just a moment..
20090924 12:54:09< Crab_> zookeeper: btw, while looking at ai controller code, i get a feeling that it would be made simpler if there was a way to 'query' the ai to find out what's it's doing. is such a tag (something like [query_ai] ) worth adding ? (i.e. to get current aggression value, or current targets list) 
20090924 12:54:20< zookeeper> although i think that shouldn't be enabled by default
20090924 12:54:35< zookeeper> with precise control like that i feel you get too much control over an ally
20090924 12:54:46< zookeeper> you could pretty much control exactly where their leader goes with that
20090924 12:55:02< Crab_> zookeeper: of course. it should be enabled if scenario designer wishes to do so. 
20090924 12:55:29< Crab_> zookeeper: but, see the forum threads for problems that this macro solves
20090924 12:56:02< zookeeper> Crab_, well, in theory that querying thing might be useful
20090924 12:56:25< zookeeper> but when you have an AI which has a different aggression at different times, it gets a bit complicated
20090924 12:56:56< Crab_> zookeeper: the ai can return a list of all facets of the aggression aspect
20090924 12:57:20< zookeeper> well, i don't know anything about how that new system works
20090924 12:58:07< zookeeper> anyways, about the leader goals..
20090924 12:59:13< Crab_> zookeeper: basically, in old system, ai parameters were grouped by time of day/ turns. in new system, they are grouped by aspect (aggression,caution, ...). so, it's easy to get 'all different values of aggression for all turns/time of day combinations').
20090924 12:59:58< zookeeper> it's fine if it stays defined on a per-scenario basis, although i feel maybe the possible AI goals should be strictly defined by the scenario
20090924 13:00:05< Crab_> about 'too much control' - a more conservative default is to allow moving only to specific locations (like keeps)
20090924 13:01:09< zookeeper> so the scenario could define a couple of key points on the maps, such as alternative keeps, and then the player could pick from that list of predefined locations where to order the leader to go
20090924 13:01:11< Crab_> this is easily handled by adding another parameter to that macro which will be used to pass a filter which will be added to [show_if] of that menu item
20090924 13:01:44< Crab_> but, note that 'retreat far far away' is a common good thing to ask allied leader.
20090924 13:02:12< zookeeper> well, a behaviour order telling them to just generally be real cowards should do for that?
20090924 13:02:21< Crab_> zookeeper: sadly, no
20090924 13:02:56< Crab_> zookeeper: and note that we might want the ai army to fight while its leader retreats 
20090924 13:04:13< zookeeper> well, i'd say in that case the scenario should set the AI to protect its leader well in all situations
20090924 13:05:27< zookeeper> i mean, whether the leader fights with the rest or runs away while the regulars cover it sounds like it shouldn't really be up to the player to decide
20090924 13:06:14< Crab_> zookeeper: well, in some maps, the player is a commander-in-chief among allied sides, so, it's appropriate for him to decide. 
20090924 13:06:20< zookeeper> the ally could be either a cowardly leader or a heroic leader regardless of whether they're charging or retreating
20090924 13:06:34< zookeeper> ok, in some scenarios, i guess
20090924 13:06:47< Crab_> zookeeper: there are problems with ' set the AI to protect its leader well in all situations'
20090924 13:06:59< Crab_> the ai is unable to defend efficiently.
20090924 13:07:22< Crab_> so, if it has a good enough army, it can crush the threats to it's leader
20090924 13:08:01< Crab_> but, it's knowledge of ZoC is too limited to allow a real 'defensive war'
20090924 13:08:26< zookeeper> anyways, i guess this should be a third type of ally order? currently the ally can only have one "behaviour" and one "objective" order active at the same time, and a leader goal doesn't really fit neither
20090924 13:08:47< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, third type
20090924 13:09:22< zookeeper> i'll label it "special orders" for now, probably scenario-defined special orders should go there as well
20090924 13:09:28< Crab_> zookeeper: also note that, if the ally ai has got 'passive_leader=yes', it also needs 'passive_leader_shares_keep=yes'
20090924 13:09:48< Crab_> zookeeper: that's 'leader orders' category. I guess special orders is good enough, too.
20090924 13:10:10< Crab_> so, in most scenarios, the AI's aggression is set to 0.5+ to make the ai attack and to avoid 'ai does nothing' bugs.
20090924 13:10:37< Crab_> so, the ai will protect it's leader successfully if it has 2:1 or higher resource advantage near the leader
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20090924 13:13:23< zookeeper> hrhm...these special orders would often need to be cleared automatically
20090924 13:14:55< Crab_> zookeeper: well, at the moment, the easiest way to do that is to do {CLEAR_AI_ALWAYS_ASPECT_LEADER_GOAL {SIDE_CONTROLLED} }
20090924 13:15:57< zookeeper> no, i mean the text descriptions in the controller menu about what the ally is doing atm
20090924 13:16:45< Crab_> zookeeper: I'd say 'don't bother to do that until I do [query_ai]'
20090924 13:17:23< Crab_> since it will be real easy with it 
20090924 13:18:23< zookeeper> right
20090924 13:18:27< Crab_> since it's very hard to do without it (it can't be done with plain moveto, since the player might change the ai orders even before ai leader reaches destination)
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20090924 13:28:05< loonycyborg> Hm.. gcc 4.3.2 no longer seems to warn about 'no newline at end of file'
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20090924 13:30:54< loonycyborg> There's definitely one in src/mp_game_settings.hpp but only gcc 4.2.1 from debian's cross-compile toolchain warns about it.
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20090924 14:33:52< Crab_> YogiHH: is 'old saves don't load because of missing [multiplayer]' fixed ?
20090924 14:35:13< YogiHH> Crab_: no, not yet
20090924 14:35:42< Crab_> ok, thanks
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20090924 15:03:53< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38790 /trunk/po/ (19 files in 19 dirs): updated Dutch translation
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20090924 15:44:25< zookeeper> bleh, the AI controller really isn't as easily extensible as i thought
20090924 15:44:41< Crab_> zookeeper: what are the main problems ?
20090924 15:45:35< zookeeper> too hard to explain
20090924 15:46:56< Crab_> would it help if we push it partly to C++ gui2 dialog ?
20090924 15:47:12< zookeeper> no, it has to do with the generation of the text
20090924 15:47:19< zookeeper> and checking for stuff
20090924 15:47:29< zookeeper> too hard to explain
20090924 15:48:02< Crab_> ok. if something (apart from query_ai) can be done on the engine side, just tell me about it.
20090924 15:49:11< zookeeper> well, one major hack the controller uses and which is quite annoying is handling whether the [ai] changes for an order should be appended to those of other orders or replace them
20090924 15:49:58< zookeeper> does the new stuff allow one to specify whether to append or merge or replace in the [ai] (or whatever it uses) block itself?
20090924 15:51:30< Crab_> the new system allows to add stuff to the ai without replacing old stuff, and allows to delete old stuff from the ai (with some todo's left, if it's unknown what should be deleted)
20090924 15:52:23< zookeeper> the problem basically is that each behaviour order should overwrite any existing behaviour orders but not objective orders, and vice versa
20090924 15:52:38< Crab_> behavior orders are ... ?
20090924 15:52:56< zookeeper> so you can't just have "this order should replace" or "this order should be appended"
20090924 15:53:16< zookeeper> behaviour = aggressive, defensive, etc, objective = try to kill side 3, defend location, etc
20090924 15:53:32< zookeeper> you can set behaviour and objective independently
20090924 15:53:49< zookeeper> but you can have only one behaviour and one objective active at the same time
20090924 15:54:28< Crab_> {MODIFY_AI_ADD_SIMPLE_ALWAYS_ASPECT {SIDE} aggression {NEW_VALUE} } - > will only modify aggression
20090924 15:54:34< Crab_> {MODIFY_AI_ADD_SIMPLE_ALWAYS_ASPECT {SIDE} caution {NEW_VALUE} } - > will only modify caution
20090924 15:54:51< zookeeper> so currently it's a bit of a hack to make sure that when you give a behaviour order it'll wipe the previous behaviour order but not the existing objective order
20090924 15:55:20< Crab_> there can be one or many objective orders ?
20090924 15:55:30< zookeeper> <zookeeper> but you can have only one behaviour and one objective active at the same time
20090924 15:55:37< Crab_> ok
20090924 15:56:01< zookeeper> but i don't want to tie each order to any specific settings, like aggression
20090924 15:56:07< Crab_> zookeeper: and take a look at Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/02_Hostile_mountains.cfg
20090924 15:56:34< zookeeper> you should be able to make any order apply pretty much any [ai] commands you want
20090924 15:57:24< Crab_> in my approach, AI is structured like a tree of components.
20090924 15:57:46< Crab_> there are [aspect]s, [stage]s and [goal]s
20090924 15:58:25< Crab_> [goal]s govern objectives, [stages] govern turn sequence, [aspect] govern some information values which can change periodically (like aggression)
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20090924 15:58:49< Crab_> [modify_ai] tag allows to delete parts of that tree, or to append new elements to that tree
20090924 15:59:38< Crab_> each element of the tree might have an id, to allow addressing it in unique way.
20090924 16:00:08< zookeeper> ok, so basically i suppose we could make objective orders only give [goal]s and behaviour orders only affect [aspect]s so they'd work together nicely and automatically?
20090924 16:00:43< Crab_> yes
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20090924 16:01:49< Crab_> there's some unfinished things in there (to allow mass deletion e.g. 'delete all goals', and to make 'add' work like a 'replace if exists')
20090924 16:02:07< Crab_> but I will finish them soon and it does not prevent you from doing what you need in ai controller easily
20090924 16:02:28< zookeeper> right, then i'll try to remove all of that particular hack and point you to the [ai] and [modify_side] blocks which need updating to the new system
20090924 16:03:10< Crab_> ok. just do things like #TODO Crab: replace aggression and caution with new values $aggression and $caution.
20090924 16:04:07< Crab_> and, in this particular case, I'll put      {MODIFY_AI_ADD_SIMPLE_ALWAYS_ASPECT {SIDE} aggression NEW_CAUTION_VALUE } and {MODIFY_AI_ADD_SIMPLE_ALWAYS_ASPECT {SIDE} caution NEW_CAUTION_VALUE } there
20090924 16:04:34< Crab_> s/NEW_CAUTION_VALUE/NEW_AGGRESSION_VALUE/
20090924 16:07:23< zookeeper> i might be able to finish that tonight, we'll see...
20090924 16:08:22< Crab_> zookeeper: note http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2aae40f2
20090924 16:08:30< Crab_> that's how those macroses will get expanded
20090924 16:09:52< Crab_> (and I'll fix 'add' into 'add and replace old one if component with same 'id' already exists, but I'll work now anyway)
20090924 16:12:15< Crab_> zookeeper: and note this - http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m4c3ceda9  - this is from macro expansion of LoW 2 - note how old goals are removed and new one is added.
20090924 16:13:15< Rhonda> Oh, there is http://identi.ca/group/wesnoth  *joins*
20090924 16:14:17< zookeeper> well, in case you don't mind newbie feedback, i'd say it looks mostly pretty simple but that path= syntax is pretty bizarre since nothing like that is used anywhere else. not that i can't figure out how it works, but it's still a bit...unusual.
20090924 16:15:53< Crab_> zookeeper: if you can suggest a better alternative, say so. note that the syntax should support addressing a particular element of a tag tree, with tree branches identified either by id or by number.
20090924 16:17:49< Crab_> but, it's fairly simple
20090924 16:19:40< zookeeper> Crab_, well, i guess the simpler but more verbose alternative would be to just use simple tags and keys for that, so path="goal[kill_elves]" would be [goal] id=kill_elves [/goal] and path="aspect[avoid].facet[stay_in_own_land]" would be [aspect] id=avoid [facet] id=stay_in_own_land[/facet][/aspect]
20090924 16:20:52< zookeeper> that's how for example [filter_wml] or ability-removing [effect]s work
20090924 16:21:22< Crab_> zookeeper: i'll think about this
20090924 16:24:25< zookeeper> great. as i said, it'd be quite a lot more verbose, but maybe easier to understand
20090924 16:26:03< Crab_> can wml tag name contain numbers ?
20090924 16:26:25< Crab_> ah, nevermind
20090924 16:43:55< Crab_> zookeeper: problem with alternative: A) imagine that we want to add a first stage with candidate action: [modify_ai] [stage] id=0 [candidate_action]id=foo ... [/candidate_action] [/stage][/modify_ai]  B) imagine that we want to add a candidate action to an existing first stage: [modify_ai] [stage] id=0 [candidate_action]id=foo ... [/candidate_action] [/stage][/modify_ai]. ambiguous. how to solve ?
20090924 16:46:17< Crab_> i.e. "where the path stops and content starts?"
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20090924 16:56:24-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string and feature freeze start on Sunday, 27.9.2009! | 1.7.6 planned for 27.9. | 91 bugs, 242 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090924 17:44:45< zookeeper> Crab_, i figured that action= was for specifying whether to remove, set or append
20090924 18:02:49< ilor> loonycyborg: big thanks for that DLL bundle, got a working build now :)
20090924 18:03:26< loonycyborg> You only used DLLs?
20090924 18:04:25< loonycyborg> If yes then you wasted bandwidths downloading it since there's a DLL-only bunle to in the same place :P
20090924 18:04:28-!- blarumyrran [n=minaise@81.20.159.197] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090924 18:04:46< loonycyborg> s/bunle to/bundle
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20090924 18:06:14< ilor> loonycyborg: I used it all, but when I accidentally launched an  old build with the new dlls it worked better just then :P
20090924 18:06:43< ilor> and I'm not on a metered connection ;)
20090924 18:07:03< loonycyborg> Btw where did you get the lua dll for old build?
20090924 18:07:24< loonycyborg> I faild to use their pre-built MSVC binary.
20090924 18:07:32< loonycyborg> *failed
20090924 18:08:09< ilor> loonycyborg: not sure really -_-
20090924 18:09:29-!- DDR [n=chatzill@66.183.125.196] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090924 18:10:22< ilor> I'm still getting the "Error: dll starting at 0x77390000 not found." errors when running under gdb, but that happens in the official binary too and seems to be the result of running x64
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20090924 18:11:01< loonycyborg> Theoretically that dll could work since lua is entirely C, but it depends on msvcrxx.dll from newer version of MSVC
20090924 18:11:40< ilor> I also get the crash-on-close error somewhat frequently
20090924 18:11:46< loonycyborg> And even with that additional dll provided, it still failed to word with weird manifest related errors.
20090924 18:12:01< loonycyborg> s/word/work
20090924 18:13:18< ilor> hah, gdb caught an "invalid argument passed to C runtime function" as the game crashed when I closed the window
20090924 18:15:00< ilor> what the fuck
20090924 18:15:20< ilor> scons died while building a release binary with a "The command line is too long"
20090924 18:16:10< loonycyborg> Interesting.. I've never got that error..
20090924 18:17:00< ilor> happened on the ar rc build\release\libwesnoth_extras.a .... (two screenfuls of .o files)
20090924 18:17:34< ilor> "release" is two chars longer than "debug" and it appears in all the pathnames and apparently it's over some limit now
20090924 18:19:10< loonycyborg> You could try passing build_dir=b to make commands shorter :P
20090924 18:19:34< ilor> the invocation is about 8k chars long
20090924 18:20:27< loonycyborg> Anyway, AFAIK scons handles extra-large commands somehow, maybe that limit is different on win7
20090924 18:21:31< ilor> probably scons doesn't handle it in a way that win7 likes
20090924 18:22:29< ilor> I found a lovely MS knowledge base article, basically boils down to "work around it. use shorter dir names or something"
20090924 18:24:30< Soliton> it probably wasn't scons that said command line too long but the shell/OS.
20090924 18:25:33< ilor> well, there's http://www.scons.org/wiki/LongCmdLinesOnWin32 which claims it's fixed
20090924 18:26:24< ilor> hm or maybe I read it worng and it's a workaround, wait
20090924 18:28:23< ilor> yep, copypaste programming at it's best -- dumping that snipped in SConstruct fixes the problem
20090924 18:31:49< loonycyborg> There are two of them. Which one you used?
20090924 18:32:05< ilor> loonycyborg: well, I started with the first one, and it worked
20090924 18:32:16< loonycyborg> k
20090924 18:33:05< ilor> oh, BTW, the windows binary could use a 32 by 32 icon in it, that's what's used by default it win7's taskbar
20090924 18:33:27< ilor> loonycyborg: I can commit if you can trust me to put it in a sane place ;)
20090924 18:34:08< loonycyborg> It depends on pywin32 so be sure to put it in try: except ImportError: or so.
20090924 18:34:56< ilor> ignore the import error or do something?
20090924 18:35:20< loonycyborg> Ignore it.
20090924 18:47:37< ilor> loonycyborg: done
20090924 18:48:11< loonycyborg> ilor: What exactly is wrong with current icon? It was converted by imagemagick from wesnoth-icon.png which is 64x64
20090924 18:48:39< loonycyborg> And then some helpful user edited it since imagemagick screwed up.
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20090924 18:50:00< ilor> loonycyborg: nevermind that, official binary looks okay, only my build has the crap icon
20090924 18:50:21< elias> does CIA not work?
20090924 18:50:41 * ilor kicks CIA-62
20090924 18:50:41< CIA-62> ow
20090924 18:50:57< ilor> elias: nah, GNA's lagging with the commit mails again
20090924 18:51:26< elias> i see
20090924 18:52:46< ilor> I swithced to a new monitor quite a while ago now but I'm still surprised by how lively yellow the main menu background is, as opposed to the plae wahsed-away color I've been getting on my laptop's screen ;)
20090924 18:52:56< ilor> *pale washed-away
20090924 18:53:24< ilor> also, afk for a bit
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20090924 19:15:54< silene> hi
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20090924 19:42:32< YogiHH> Soliton: Is this what you had in mind for the server mp information? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m628cff85
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20090924 19:55:37< Soliton> YogiHH: looks good, except let's not dereference 'data.root().child("multiplayer")' in case it is NULL. ;-)
20090924 19:55:58< elias> is terrain_type.id supposed to be unique?
20090924 19:56:42< Soliton> it sounds like it should be. where are duplicates?
20090924 19:56:58< YogiHH> Soliton: That is not supposed to happen anymore. But we maybe should add an assert for it.
20090924 19:57:02< elias> "castle"
20090924 19:57:25< Soliton> YogiHH: you realize you're using simple_wml and not config, right?
20090924 19:57:28< zookeeper> those can be changed to be unique, they're not really used for much
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20090924 19:57:53< elias> do units still use it for their defense values?
20090924 19:57:56< Soliton> YogiHH: it doesn't happen with config because you get a reference back.
20090924 19:58:00< YogiHH> Soliton: yes. I am not so familiar with it but i saw that it is working with pointers instead of references
20090924 19:58:19< Soliton> YogiHH: and there you still should check that you got a valid config back so it doesn't bomb out later.
20090924 19:59:04< YogiHH> Soliton: Since it is expected to have that child in any case, an assert should be alright, i guess?
20090924 19:59:35< Soliton> YogiHH: no, i don't want the server to go down because some level data is missing some tag.
20090924 20:00:07< YogiHH> Soliton: ah, i see. A log message, then?
20090924 20:00:20< Soliton> yeah, a warning is fine.
20090924 20:00:36< elias> zookeeper: basically, wmlunits sees something like "castle=1" in "[movetype_costs]" for a unit... then tries to look up the translatable name for "castle"
20090924 20:00:46< elias> but now there are two "castle" so it gets confused :P
20090924 20:00:55< Soliton> and abort the game if you think that's necessary.
20090924 20:03:30< Zarel> Hey, guys. Is it just me, or do the new Flare and Flameheart not really look very leader-ish? They look kind of like a regular mixed fighter, to me.
20090924 20:04:03< Soliton> elias, zookeeper: http://nopaste.com/p/a95KeyOuhb  ok?
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20090924 20:05:39< elias> Soliton: it would make wmlunits not ignore castle and village
20090924 20:07:19< zookeeper> elias, hmmh...
20090924 20:07:23< zookeeper> wait a sec
20090924 20:08:06< zookeeper> where does the game itself get translations for those from?
20090924 20:08:39< elias> it probably uses a more robust lookup, just using one or the other in case of duplicate id :)
20090924 20:09:30< zookeeper> i guess...i see no other way it could get them
20090924 20:09:49< Soliton> are we talking about terrain translations or translation of the name key?
20090924 20:10:53< zookeeper> terrain translations, if it means the terrain keys in movement types
20090924 20:11:05< zookeeper> that patch looks fine to me
20090924 20:11:52< Soliton> i think that depends rather on the string and aliasof keys.
20090924 20:12:47< elias> yes, i could just as well use the string field here
20090924 20:12:48< Soliton> the ones that are no aliases still have the same id like in the movement type.
20090924 20:13:32< Soliton> well, might be a good idea but the ids should be unique or they shouldn't be called ids...
20090924 20:15:21< Soliton> string is probably more likely to be unique since if it isn't the terrain is not usable.
20090924 20:17:22< Soliton> committed, btw.
20090924 20:17:45< Soliton> elias: are you going to make the switch to string?
20090924 20:18:14< Soliton> if not i'll port the id fix to 1.6 as well.
20090924 20:19:56< elias> i made it use string in trunk
20090924 20:20:45< Soliton> ok, cool then i'll just backport that.
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20090924 22:27:26< Shadow_Master> um.
20090924 22:27:58< blarumyrran> I think some alcoholic drink was named um
20090924 22:27:59< Shadow_Master> would it look horribly awkward if the add-ons download dialog displayed the add-on's description as a tooltip... ah wait, yes, because it'd take over too much space at the bottom of the screen
20090924 22:28:30 * Shadow_Master tries to imagine some other way to display it..
20090924 22:29:54< Soliton> worth a try short of a complete redesign IMO.
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20090924 22:47:18 * Shadow_Master slaps forehead - do not download addons, do not download addons...
20090924 22:48:47< Soliton> Shadow_Master: btw, would be nice if the update button would pop up a note if it's pressed with no add-on installed.
20090924 22:49:16< Soliton> a different note then nothing to update that is of course.
20090924 22:52:22< Crab__> Soliton: why show update button at all, if no addons are installed ?
20090924 22:53:53< Soliton> good point.
20090924 22:54:07< Shadow_Master> it could be grayed out if that's doable in GUI2 already
20090924 22:54:20< Shadow_Master> *I could gray it out
20090924 22:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string and feature freeze start on Sunday, 27.9.2009! | 1.7.6 planned for 27.9. | 90 bugs, 242 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090924 22:58:32< Shadow_Master> same with the remove addons button
20090924 23:02:09< Shadow_Master> mordante: in /src/gui/widgets/widget.hpp, why is find_widget() defined twice just for overloading?
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20090924 23:02:46< Shadow_Master> mordante: I see the second overload could be removed and the must_be_active parameter given a default value of true. That is, unless there's some arcane language issue behind this?
20090924 23:30:37< zookeeper> Crab__, didn't have time to finish that controller change tonight, i'll try to do it tomorrow
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20090924 23:31:10< Crab__> zookeeper: ok
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20090924 23:33:57< CIA-62> elias * r38792 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Peter Mawhorter improved the TeamColorizer script (you can now specify the color instead of just using red and it uses the same algorithm as in-game). This is patch patch #1302.
20090924 23:35:22< Shadow_Master> how many patches has that guy contributed?
20090924 23:35:31< CIA-62> shadowmaster * r38797 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): 
20090924 23:35:31< CIA-62> Disable (gray out) the Update and Remove add-ons options in the
20090924 23:35:31< CIA-62> connection dialog when there are no add-ons installed.
20090924 23:35:58< Shadow_Master> Soliton: ^ commit
20090924 23:38:12< Soliton> excellent.
20090924 23:40:27< CIA-62> elias * r38795 /trunk/data/tools/ (unit_tree/helpers.py wmlunits): [wmlunits] Index terrain types by the .string instead of the .id field as the latter isn't unique right now.
20090924 23:40:50< CIA-62> ilor * r38791 /trunk/SConstruct: work around a SCons "The command line is too long" problem on windows during linking using code from http://www.scons.org/wiki/LongCmdLinesOnWin32
20090924 23:41:45< CIA-62> soliton * r38793 /trunk/src/random.cpp: removed double include
20090924 23:44:47< CIA-62> soliton * r38796 /branches/1.6/data/tools/ (unit_tree/helpers.py wmlunits): [wmlunits] Index terrain types by the .string instead of the .id field as the latter isn't unique right now.
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20090924 23:51:51< CIA-62> soliton * r38794 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: made terrain type ids unique again
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 25 00:00:17 2009