--- Log opened Mon Sep 21 00:00:13 2009
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20090921 00:17:05< GeorgeGhoal> Hello
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20090921 00:17:58< GeorgeGhoal> I want to know more about wargame/tactical games like Wesnoth and Fire Emblem
20090921 00:18:38< blarumyrran> Why, hello there!
20090921 00:19:52< GeorgeGhoal> i like Fire Emblem/Wesnoth game style. I also like HoMM/King's Bounty style games, and i think that there's a way of making a MMORTS without capturable objects by combining those 2
20090921 00:20:29< GeorgeGhoal> Fire Emblem (24x24 board) battle mode, average MMO as overworld
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20090921 00:21:49< GeorgeGhoal> why don't MMO-makers think of this sort of online gaming? MMORTS can only exist like i described it above
20090921 00:22:01< blarumyrran> I remember someone saying roughly that on this channel a couple of days ago
20090921 00:22:07< blarumyrran> Was it you?'
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20090921 00:22:47< GeorgeGhoal> check logs - yes, i was talking of this sort of stuff before
20090921 00:22:57 * blarumyrran is too lazy for that
20090921 00:23:05< blarumyrran> I dont think you can call it mmorts tho
20090921 00:23:26< blarumyrran> since the strategic part isnt real-time
20090921 00:23:26< GeorgeGhoal> well, MMO with RTS battle system
20090921 00:24:12< GeorgeGhoal> both overworld and battle are RT, but in battle, there's "stamina", used for every action
20090921 00:24:16< blarumyrran> ah.
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20090921 00:25:46< GeorgeGhoal> on overworld, there's "night", at which all wandering AA (aggressive armies) stop moving, but they attack you if you are too near or move too fast
20090921 00:26:01< GeorgeGhoal> like sleepers in WarCraft 3
20090921 00:27:46< GeorgeGhoal> hey, why do MMO-makers ignore KB/HoMM? they're great bases for a MMO with strategic battle!
20090921 00:28:37< blarumyrran> (and there are already mmorts-like games - Travian and its million clones; but thats probably just nitpicking because their mechanism sucks)
20090921 00:29:53< blarumyrran> I dont really know a lot on that, but id guess having that tacticalcombat element in thousands of combats at any given time would place a heavy load on server
20090921 00:33:02< Zarel> Well, there are like no MMOTBS games.
20090921 00:33:13< Zarel> Except for tick-based browser games, which all suck.
20090921 00:33:18< Zarel> I intend to change that. ;)
20090921 00:35:48< blarumyrran> Noncommercially?
20090921 00:36:08< GeorgeGhoal> 2 servers being synchronized
20090921 00:36:45< GeorgeGhoal> overworld server and battle-processing server
20090921 00:37:54< GeorgeGhoal> or few battle-processing servers that keep track of battles and send the entry/end data for each battle to main server
20090921 00:38:36< GeorgeGhoal> plus, instead of stacks shown as one warrior (HoMM), use single warriors with ## of HP (Disciples)
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20090921 00:40:30< Zarel> blarumyrran: I dunno, do you consider "ad-supported, browser based" to be noncommercial?
20090921 00:40:51< blarumyrran> yes i guess
20090921 00:41:26< GeorgeGhoal> then it will have form like: F0-00-00-00-00-0F-0A-00-00-00 (first six are warrior types, last 4 are items, 00 = none)
20090921 00:41:40< Zarel> That looks like an IPv6 address.
20090921 00:41:44< blarumyrran> But unless you go very low-graphics&ad-cluttered i somehow dont think you can support something as massive as a mmo server
20090921 00:42:24< Zarel> Well, see, that's presuming my game will actually become _popular_
20090921 00:42:33< Zarel> Which is quite unlikely, so that solves that problem nicely. ;)
20090921 00:42:40< blarumyrran> but presuming otherwise, why start with it at all? :P
20090921 00:43:03< Zarel> I'm thinking about something reasonably niche, but still popular.
20090921 00:43:05< Zarel> Like KoL
20090921 00:43:16< GeorgeGhoal> in the code i just said, warrior types are defined in first 6 bytes, then 4 bytes to define items
20090921 00:43:21< Zarel> It'll be like KoL, but with a better balanced battle engine.
20090921 00:43:31< Zarel> And several-players-v-several-players battles.
20090921 00:43:45< Zarel> And with people in actual places.
20090921 00:43:47< Zarel> And more Ajax.
20090921 00:43:55< GeorgeGhoal> BB sucks
20090921 00:44:02< GeorgeGhoal> i hate BB games, they laaaag
20090921 00:44:39< Zarel> BB?
20090921 00:44:44< blarumyrran> browserbased
20090921 00:45:02< GeorgeGhoal> again, battle must be on a battle-processing server, with entry/end data being sent to main server
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20090921 00:45:20< Zarel> Well, that's just because few of them use Ajax properly.
20090921 00:45:25< Zarel> Mine _will_, therefore it will be awesome.
20090921 00:45:49< Zarel> I'll offer a desktop client that'll be WebKit+mygame, for those irrational people.
20090921 00:46:02< GeorgeGhoal> i am thinking of a 120MB isometric tactical MMO
20090921 00:46:12< Zarel> So am I.
20090921 00:46:22< Zarel> Except replacing "isometric" with "a better angle"
20090921 00:46:54< GeorgeGhoal> isometric or in classic RPG projection - the only good ways for a grid game
20090921 00:47:03< blarumyrran> For some time i thought isometric is strictly supserior to just squares because you can display more with it
20090921 00:47:12< blarumyrran> but i really appreciate the homm2/3 look now
20090921 00:47:26< Zarel> What do you guys think of this angle?
20090921 00:47:26< Zarel> http://zarelsl.deviantart.com/art/Map-of-Land-of-Mystic-Stuff-79319741
20090921 00:47:27< blarumyrran> that is horizontally-vertically aligned squares
20090921 00:47:45< Zarel> I prefer it to isometric mainly because it's easier to get used to which direction is up/down/left/right
20090921 00:47:56< ardesh> O_o
20090921 00:48:02< ardesh> hexagonal rulez
20090921 00:48:02< ardesh> :)
20090921 00:48:10< Zarel> Hexagonal is too much coding overhead. :(
20090921 00:48:16< ardesh> aye
20090921 00:48:18< Zarel> Especially for a browser renderer.
20090921 00:48:23< ardesh> did that once..
20090921 00:48:24< blarumyrran> Hexagon is a pain to do graphics for
20090921 00:48:34< ardesh> gtk based
20090921 00:48:37< GeorgeGhoal> overworld must be cut into 256x256 squares just to make co-ordinates fit into 4 bytes (2 for map, position, 2 for co-ordinates)
20090921 00:48:45< Zarel> Anyway, thoughts on the projection I linked to?
20090921 00:49:06< Zarel> I don't even know if there's a name for that projection.
20090921 00:49:26< GeorgeGhoal> some sort of LoZ'ish projection?
20090921 00:49:54< Zarel> LoZ?
20090921 00:50:18< GeorgeGhoal> LoZ just uses GTA2-ish projection for ledges of the room and classic RPG projection for other objects. LoZ - Legend of Zelda
20090921 00:50:51< blarumyrran> gta2-ish is just topdown?
20090921 00:52:34 * Zarel shrugs
20090921 00:59:38< GeorgeGhoal> gta2-ish isnt just top-down
20090921 00:59:58< GeorgeGhoal> just top-down is if GTA2 didn't show vertical surfaces (walls)
20090921 01:00:34< GeorgeGhoal> any1 playing Take No Prisoners?
20090921 01:00:47< blarumyrran> the center of screen is always top-down tho
20090921 01:00:48< GeorgeGhoal> it uses same gfx system
20090921 01:00:57< blarumyrran> if theres a wall in the middle of the screen, it isnt shown
20090921 01:01:38< blarumyrran> i dont imagine how you could say a not-(pseudo)3d game could have such perspective
20090921 01:02:48< GeorgeGhoal> not-3D? there are games made of top-down tiles
20090921 01:03:07< GeorgeGhoal> tiles are top-down, but no 3D parts
20090921 01:03:11< blarumyrran> yes
20090921 01:03:24< blarumyrran> but you said its not to be equated with top-down yourself
20090921 01:04:07< GeorgeGhoal> GTA2-ish walls means walls shown like in a 3D enviromment
20090921 01:04:31< GeorgeGhoal> so we see the door on the bottom of the screen the same way as on top
20090921 01:04:59< blarumyrran> thats not like gta2 pesrpective tho
20090921 01:06:01< blarumyrran> because the door would be shown "bent" to the other side in gta2, not the same way
20090921 01:06:39< GeorgeGhoal> well, dullified gta2-style
20090921 01:08:34< GeorgeGhoal> so, best projections for a grid game are isometry and classic RPG projection
20090921 01:10:19< GeorgeGhoal> will a good MMORTS appear within next year?
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20090921 01:10:59< blarumyrran> nah
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20090921 01:11:36< blarumyrran> Any quality mmo is a huge investment, more so than any other genre, and trying new grounds like that is risky
20090921 01:11:59< blarumyrran> I dont think people are willing to spend money on risky stuff these times
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20090921 01:14:55< GeorgeGhoal> but KB3D (King's Bounty: The Legend, King's Bounty: Armored Princess and Heroes of Might and Magic: Search for the Dragon Bone Staff - 3D KB clone with music from HoMM 3 and 4) sell rather good, and if a project went good in offline, putting it online (MMO) is less risky than a completely new game
20090921 01:17:29< GeorgeGhoal> so, all 3 3D versions of KB were selling good. just enlarging it's battlefield size and putting it online is what's needed to complete MMO-izing KB, that'll smash WoW and Lineage 2 with a single blow
20090921 01:18:13< GeorgeGhoal> lol
20090921 01:18:47< GeorgeGhoal> Blizzard and NC-Soft will be erased
20090921 01:19:11< blarumyrran> That is bullshit
20090921 01:19:41< blarumyrran> "putting it online" is very close to making a whole new game with the same models; its publisher seems to be something called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1C_Company ? I for one have never heard of them; im not sure if theyd ever have the finance to get a mmo going
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20090921 01:23:03< GeorgeGhoal> but they picked Katauri int. after publishing an MMO
20090921 01:23:37< GeorgeGhoal> yes, 1C published both KB3D for PC
20090921 01:26:39< GeorgeGhoal> 1C owns KB franchise, and picked Katauri because Katauri published a MMORPG. So, Katauri int. owns everything to develop a MMO
20090921 01:33:07< GeorgeGhoal> as 3DO is ?!ed...
20090921 01:33:18< GeorgeGhoal> both KB and HoMM are now Russian
20090921 01:33:57< GeorgeGhoal> and the best HoMM-deriving game (Disciples)
20090921 01:35:09 * GeorgeGhoal is proud of 1C, Akella and Nival Interactive - they captured the best TBS/TB RPG franchises.
20090921 01:36:18 * GeorgeGhoal thinks that online versions of those games will be the best MMO's in the world
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20090921 01:39:14 * shadowmaster . O o (text wall!)
20090921 01:40:26< GeorgeGhoal> so, if KB becomes an online game, it'll rule the net
20090921 01:40:40< GeorgeGhoal> i hope it will happen soon
20090921 01:40:42< GeorgeGhoal> bye
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20090921 04:41:58< shadowmaster> Zarel: are you around?
20090921 04:42:04< Zarel> Yep.
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20090921 09:49:11< Ivanovic> moin
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--- Log opened Mon Sep 21 14:01:55 2009
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20090921 14:02:04-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.6.5 | latest development version: 1.7.5 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com
20090921 14:02:04-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [] [Thu Sep 10 13:28:21 2009]
20090921 14:02:04[Users #wesnoth]
20090921 14:02:04[ a0xff      ] [ ettin      ] [ lobby         ] [ Rhonda        ] 
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20090921 14:02:04[ AnMaster   ] [ fetusbubble] [ mandyke       ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
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20090921 14:02:04[ apoi       ] [ hagabaka   ] [ mon8          ] [ Smar          ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ BenUrban   ] [ happygrue  ] [ mra2          ] [ Stealth       ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ Carneus    ] [ Hellrider  ] [ namad5        ] [ unnheulu      ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ Chakravanti] [ ilor_      ] [ Parma_Quendion] [ VurtualRuler98] 
20090921 14:02:04[ deekay     ] [ isaac_     ] [ Pinco_Pallino ] [ wesbot        ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ Deformative] [ Ivanovic   ] [ Queenie       ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ dfranke    ] [ Jean-Pierre] [ Randorr       ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ Doppp      ] [ kane77     ] [ rcsimm        ] 
20090921 14:02:04[ erl_       ] [ law_       ] [ retupmoca     ] 
20090921 14:02:04-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 50 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 50 normal]
20090921 14:02:04-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org
20090921 14:02:10-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006
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20090921 20:41:03< Ken_Oh> wesbot: seen Ken_Oh
20090921 20:41:04< wesbot> Ken_Oh: You are Ken_Oh!
20090921 20:41:07< Ken_Oh> :)
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20090921 21:41:55< Woodmouse> brb
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20090921 22:20:28< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27177
20090921 22:20:46< Aethaeryn> thespaceinvader is being poked too
20090921 22:21:03< thespaceinvader> i saw
20090921 22:21:07< thespaceinvader> wouldn't a poll be better~?
20090921 22:21:09< Aethaeryn> Not quite a HaH replacement, but it provides a lot more meaningful answers. At the end, I can skim through and not only get a tally of the most liked/hated, but also get some samples of reasoning.
20090921 22:21:35 * shadowmaster busy talking with SF.net representatives.
20090921 22:21:42< Aethaeryn> A poll wouldn't be better because: (1) The way phpBB works, it would have to take 12 threads to do a poll and (2) this way I get reasons as to why people do it.
20090921 22:21:48< Aethaeryn> I'll disqualify anything that doesn't answer "Why?"
20090921 22:22:08< Aethaeryn> It's more of a survey than a poll...
20090921 22:22:29< Aethaeryn> That way I can pick out the best reasoning for the majority-liked answers...
20090921 22:23:29< Aethaeryn> Obviously polls would get more responses, but this is meant to have a detailed analysis done by myself at the end.
20090921 22:23:38< Aethaeryn> And by detailed I mean however much effort I feel like putting into it at the end.
20090921 22:24:07< Aethaeryn> Yes, I could have polls and request people give reasons, but the vast majority would not.
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20090921 22:58:25< Zarel> Aethaeryn: Hey, do you need help with Thunderstone graphics?
20090921 22:58:38< Zarel> I've been considering making tank/fighter/spaceship sprites.
20090921 22:58:49< Zarel> and was wondering if you wanted them.
20090921 23:08:08< Aethaeryn> Zarel: You can help if you want... caught me at a bad time though... 
20090921 23:08:20< Aethaeryn> Zarel: have to get something to eat before my 5:30 class... It is 5:08.
20090921 23:08:36< Zarel> Okay.
20090921 23:08:54< Zarel> Well, when you have time, I'd like to know stuff about color scheme, style stuff, etc.
20090921 23:09:04< Zarel> Whether you already have guidelines, or if I should just make stuff up myself.
20090921 23:10:19< Aethaeryn> Zarel: Kinda like the LAST I came up with in the art thread, only without sucky camera angle
20090921 23:10:27< Aethaeryn> I'll have to fix the angle eventually so it flips properly.
20090921 23:10:47< Aethaeryn> Zarel: we'll have to talk in about 2 hours if you're still around, k?
20090921 23:11:19< Zarel> Okay.
20090921 23:11:28< Zarel> I don't see any tanks in the Thunderstone art thread...
20090921 23:11:47< Aethaeryn> Zarel: first page, in the same post as the shock trooper (my avatar)
20090921 23:12:00< Aethaeryn> It's still a little boxy, but I need to get the perspective right before curving it.
20090921 23:12:01< Zarel> I see.
20090921 23:12:12< Aethaeryn> Much better than the originals...
20090921 23:12:19< Aethaeryn> g2g, hopefully I can still grab a bite to eat
20090921 23:12:21< Aethaeryn> again, sorry
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 22 00:00:49 2009