--- Log opened Wed Oct 14 00:00:48 2009
20091014 00:01:17< Arc> ok where do replacement images live?
20091014 00:02:02< CIA-13> ivanovic * r39276 /trunk/ (23 files in 19 dirs): updated Hungarian and Lithuanian translation
20091014 00:02:32< Ivanovic> once upon the time i sent a howto to the wesnoth-i18n list on how  to translate images for the manual
20091014 00:02:45< Ivanovic> it is somewhere in the archive, something like november last year or the likes
20091014 00:02:55< Arc> not important at the moment
20091014 00:03:06< Arc> when rendering is fixed it'd be good to update them though
20091014 00:03:32< Arc> this is what we'll link new players to from the various shavian groups
20091014 00:04:26< Ivanovic> basically you have to create screenshots in your lang and have the names of the files (image paths) be replaced by some folder (for de it would be translating images/image.jpg to images/de/image.jpg considering that the files end in the subfolder de/)
20091014 00:05:50< Arc> and some of the game images, such as the map
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20091014 01:27:51< CIA-13> ivanovic * r39277 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/en@shaw.po: updated Shavian translation
20091014 01:42:35< Arc> Ivanovic: that builds right?
20091014 01:42:40< Ivanovic> no idea
20091014 01:42:45< Ivanovic> i only build the files every X days
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20091014 01:42:53< Arc> ah ok, well let me know
20091014 01:42:58< Ivanovic> i will
20091014 01:42:59< Arc> i lack the ability to do it apparently
20091014 01:43:15< Ivanovic> yeah, this is some ugly and dirty voodoo
20091014 01:43:37< loonycyborg> Arc: btw did you do etc-update/dispatch.conf after upgrading asciidoc?
20091014 01:43:49< Arc> no i didnt
20091014 01:49:30< loonycyborg> manual.en@shaw.html builds for me, and now I see much less untranslated text in it(if any).
20091014 01:50:56< Arc> it should be finished now
20091014 01:51:14< Arc> we decided to keep acronyms (like CTRL and ALT) the same
20091014 01:51:41< Arc> mostly because writing out 𐑒𐑪𐑯𐑑𐑮𐑴𐑤 every time is a pain
20091014 01:52:02< Arc> and 𐑒𐑑𐑮𐑤 doesnt quite pronounce right
20091014 01:52:49< loonycyborg> My irc client still renders shavian as squares even though the font is installed :/
20091014 01:53:10< Arc> is your environment set to utf-8?
20091014 01:53:20< Arc> do you see ··· as dots or squares
20091014 01:53:27< loonycyborg> Yes. 
20091014 01:53:32< loonycyborg> I see dots.
20091014 01:53:48< Arc> ok so it must be that your irc client has broken unicode support
20091014 01:54:04< Arc> it happens a lot with us, a lot of programmers don't bother to test to see if page1 unicode works
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20091014 01:58:46< Arc> the namer dot uses the "middle dot" which is much lower in unicode
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20091014 01:58:58< Arc> with shavian it's our "capital letter"
20091014 01:59:55< Arc> ·𐑸𐑒 ·𐑮𐑲𐑤𐑰
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20091014 02:03:53< Arc> wow this really does take awhile
20091014 02:04:06< Arc> btw thanks that fixed the problem
20091014 02:04:23< loonycyborg> np
20091014 02:05:05< CIA-13> alink * r39278 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): update changelogs
20091014 02:08:01< CIA-13> alink * r39279 /trunk/players_changelog: Simplify a players_changelog entry
20091014 02:08:06< Arc> i would not expect this to take so long
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20091014 02:14:26< Arc> oh i see.  Table of Contents is translated by docbook
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20091014 04:38:33< shadowmaster> http://wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27426 <- ugh, makes me want to forward them to the phpBB 3 forums..
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20091014 07:52:47< Zarel> You know.
20091014 07:52:49< Zarel> I just realized.
20091014 07:52:58< Zarel> Horizontal scrolling doesn't work in Wesnoth...
20091014 07:53:09< Zarel> I mean, for the scroll-wheel.
20091014 07:55:26< Soliton> works for me.
20091014 07:56:14< Zarel> Really?
20091014 07:56:24< Zarel> Alt+(vertical scroll) works.
20091014 07:56:29< Zarel> But not (horizontal scroll)
20091014 07:57:16< Soliton> both work here.
20091014 07:57:45< Zarel> Hmm. Maybe it's because I'm using a Mac?
20091014 07:58:47< Soliton> probably depends on your SDL version.
20091014 07:59:53< Zarel> _My_ SDL version?
20091014 08:00:10< Zarel> Do you mean the SDL version of whoever compiled Wesnoth for Mac? o_O
20091014 08:02:56< Soliton> SDL is telling us what mouse buttons get pressed etc.
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20091014 10:13:22< Ivanovic> moin
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20091014 11:53:55< ilor> what's Wesnoth's status, legally speaking? Did the non-profit incorporation go through? (I can't remember what came out of that idea)
20091014 11:59:13< Rhonda> ?
20091014 11:59:29< Rhonda> Do you refer to Ivanovic's april fool's prank?
20091014 12:01:39< ilor> well, in fact I need to put something in the "client info" in my project topic sumbission ;)
20091014 12:02:46< ilor> so if wesnoth has a legal status, I'd take it, otherwise, well, "Open-source organisation (informal)" will do
20091014 12:05:01< Rhonda> No, there isn't any legal status that I am aware of.
20091014 12:05:13< Soliton> yeah, i think we're a non-profit incorporation since a while.
20091014 12:05:23< Rhonda> Oh?
20091014 12:05:37< Rhonda> But only in us legalise I take it?
20091014 12:05:41< Rhonda> US
20091014 12:06:40< Ivanovic> we are *not* non-profit yet, but we should be incorporated
20091014 12:06:43< Ivanovic> ask noy for detauls
20091014 12:07:10< Rhonda> noy? Wait a moment ...
20091014 12:07:15< ilor> Ivanovic: ok, so no legal status as of now, noted
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20091014 12:41:07< Ivanovic> ilor: ehm, we *are* incorporated (as in "a company") by now
20091014 12:41:12< Ivanovic> that *is* a lecal status
20091014 12:41:30< Ivanovic> it is just that IIRC non-profit status is not compelted yet though i am not 100% sure
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20091014 14:42:08< Soliton> valgrind says there is a memory leak in our network code: http://nopaste.com/p/aNny0YLdfb
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20091014 16:12:55< ilor> hm, where's the source for the current addon server?
20091014 16:13:18< Soliton> src/campaign_server/
20091014 16:13:46< ilor> thanks
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20091014 18:12:20< crimson_penguin> Blarumyrran: ohh, a Wesnothian, eh?
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20091014 19:23:29< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: still planned for today?
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20091014 19:39:42< YogiHH> hello
20091014 19:39:52< YogiHH> Ivanovic: around?
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20091014 19:42:45< YogiHH> Ivanovic: I got a fix for bug #13886 (missing tooltip for clock/timer), but it requires introducing two new strings? Should i apply it nevertheless or what do you suggest?
20091014 19:44:02< CIA-13> jhinrichs * r39280 /trunk/src/key.hpp: Silence tons of warnings for VC++
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20091014 19:47:36< Nayela> Is it easy to transfer subversion data from one installation to another?
20091014 19:47:52< Nayela> On different machines
20091014 19:48:13< Soliton> sure.
20091014 19:48:31< Nayela> :) Thanks Soliton 
20091014 19:49:13< Nayela> I was considering making a local installation to try it out but was worried when it came to putting it on a server, I'd lose data or have a hassle on my hands
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20091014 20:06:12< Zarel> ooc, why can't shyde/sylph float over unwalkable terrain?
20091014 20:07:22< Arc> good question
20091014 20:07:37< Arc> Zarel: where iz wz2100 as far as translation goes?
20091014 20:07:51< Arc> we're almost done with wesnoth and looking for the next big project
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20091014 20:08:09< Zarel> Arc: We could use some help with the more obscure languages.
20091014 20:08:26< Zarel> German is officially maintained; Russian gets updated reasonably quickly, and the others lag behind at least a moderate amount
20091014 20:08:38< Zarel> Well, actually, most of them are only lagging behind a little bit.
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20091014 20:09:41< Arc> Zarel: we're looking at en@shaw
20091014 20:09:44< mordante> servus
20091014 20:09:49< Arc> http://ubuntu.shavian.org.uk/
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20091014 20:10:21< Arc> though our next project may be something more mainstream like firefox
20091014 20:10:56< Zarel> Firefox needs translation help?
20091014 20:11:05< Arc> Firefox lacks en@shaw
20091014 20:11:07< mordante> Arc, how are things going with your patches?
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20091014 20:11:11< Zarel> en@shaw?
20091014 20:11:28< Arc> mordante: i have it rendering using your pango class, but there are bugs im still tracking down
20091014 20:11:40< Arc> i can send you what i have so far if you want to help track down the bugs
20091014 20:11:45< Arc> there's also a lot of cleanup left to be done
20091014 20:11:53< boucman> hey all
20091014 20:12:02< mordante> Arc, best post it at patches.westnoth.org then others can look at it as well
20091014 20:12:04< mordante> hi boucman 
20091014 20:12:08< boucman> mordante: did you see my last comment about bug 14405 ?
20091014 20:12:15< boucman> (the halo bug)
20091014 20:13:11< Arc> mordante: ok i will as soon as i get rid of the utf8cpp stuff, which is obsoleted as soon as i get rid of the substring calculation function
20091014 20:13:38< mordante> boucman, yes also that you wanted to discuss it here
20091014 20:13:57< Arc> Zarel: en@shaw is english in the shavian phonetic alphabet.  I'm part of a translation team within Ubuntu thats working to translate the entire desktop to it
20091014 20:14:03< mordante> Arc, ok cool and nice to hear we don't need another dependency
20091014 20:14:15< boucman> mordante: and do you have time now ? :D
20091014 20:14:20< Arc> well it's not a dependency, it's currently right in the code
20091014 20:14:26< Arc> nobody packages utf8cpp
20091014 20:15:49< mordante> boucman, in about half an hour if that suits you as well
20091014 20:16:05< mordante> Arc, ok
20091014 20:16:24< boucman> perfect
20091014 20:16:30< boucman> ping me when you're available
20091014 20:16:58< Arc> Zarel: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=en@shaw&version=trunk is our current progress, plus having to resolve an issue in the code regarding proper unicode rendering
20091014 20:17:20< Arc> Shavian is in unicode proper but it's near the beginning of plane1, so requires 4 bytes to encode
20091014 20:17:22< Zarel> ...does anyone use that language? o_O
20091014 20:17:40< Arc> a few thousand people worldwide.  it is English, not hard to learn
20091014 20:18:19< mordante> boucman, ok
20091014 20:18:57< Arc> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/fonts/Andagii.ttf is a small simple font for viewing it
20091014 20:19:06< mordante> loonycyborg, what's the status of the dummylocale removal patch?
20091014 20:19:32< Zarel> True, but I can't see it being all that _useful_ in a game.
20091014 20:19:36< Arc> http://shavian.org.uk/xkcd/
20091014 20:20:21-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20091014 20:20:23< Arc> it's useful for people who prefer using it, whether because they've been using it for 40 years (quite a few people) or because they're just now learning it and looking for opprotunities
20091014 20:20:46-!- Zarel [n=Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
20091014 20:20:55< mordante> well it sounds like a fun language to learn
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20091014 20:21:18< Arc> i think it looks pretty damned cool in Wesnoth ;-)
20091014 20:21:21< Arc> kinda like it's elven
20091014 20:21:26< Chusslove> It's not a language, it's a script.
20091014 20:21:41< Arc> http://media.apogean.org/img/wesnoth-3.png
20091014 20:22:02< Blarumyrran> for language-choice-dialogue reasons, its a language
20091014 20:22:13< Chusslove> What I don't understand, is why acronyms are still in Latin...
20091014 20:22:21< Arc> i need to add a tiny bit more space between the glyphs in Andagii, at that small of a size its difficult for new readers
20091014 20:22:48< Arc> Chusslove: we decided to keep them in upper case roman because it's hard to pronounce them
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20091014 20:23:30< Arc> in some cases they are not, ie, King Konan IV becomes ·𐑒𐑦𐑙 ·𐑒𐑴𐑯𐑨𐑯 𐑞 ·𐑓𐑹𐑔
20091014 20:23:36< mordante> indeed can go for elven as well
20091014 20:23:41< Arc> (King Konan the Fourth)
20091014 20:23:51< mordante> you're right Chusslove 
20091014 20:23:54< Arc> hard to translate LOL properly
20091014 20:24:11< Aethaeryn> Arc: couldn't you phonetically equivilent a laugh?
20091014 20:24:14< Aethaeryn> ;)
20091014 20:24:17< Arc> could
20091014 20:24:28< Arc> but what about RAM? see the above link for the translated XKCD
20091014 20:24:37< boucman> hehe
20091014 20:24:45< boucman> that language would do cool screenshots ;)
20091014 20:24:58< mordante> well having acronyms in English makes it feel like Japanese, a lot of glyphs I don't understand with some English in between ;-)
20091014 20:25:12< Aethaeryn> Looks vaguely like Thai.
20091014 20:25:38< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_language
20091014 20:25:44< Aethaeryn> So if anything it would be arguably a southeast asian script
20091014 20:26:08< Blarumyrran> Quintainese
20091014 20:26:20< Blarumyrran> Quintains dont have a race-specific language yet
20091014 20:26:33< Arc> its been years since i used shavian regularly.. more than a decade actually.  just recently picked it up again.  my fluency is that I know all the glyphs (hard to forget them) and can spell/read it without a lookup table, but don't recognize most words at sight yet
20091014 20:27:18< Arc> i know people who've been using it longer than ive been alive and read it more fluently than en@latin
20091014 20:27:43< Chusslove> Which is totally natural, given that it's phonemic.
20091014 20:28:24< Arc> when you read the word "stop" your brain doesnt have to sound out "s t ah p", it just recogizes the word as a whole shape and matches it
20091014 20:28:38< Arc> it takes a few months, maybe longer, to build up such a mapping
20091014 20:28:53< Arc> so - immersing yourself in it, such as using Wesnoth in it, helps
20091014 20:28:56< Blarumyrran> Hum, i always thought stop is just that, s t o p
20091014 20:29:33< Blarumyrran> besides, how can you sound a "h" in such position
20091014 20:29:55< Arc> you can't, but the sound isnt a short o either
20091014 20:30:10< Arc> at least not in our local dialect
20091014 20:30:16< Chusslove> Regarding acronyms, what about RAM? RAM -> random access memory -> (in shavian) -> acronym.
20091014 20:30:42< Arc> that would be 𐑮𐑨𐑥
20091014 20:30:44< Aethaeryn> Kinda like if you only took the hooks, though...
20091014 20:30:44-!- Aethaeryn [n=Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit ["Reconnecting"]
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20091014 20:30:57< Chusslove> And what's wrong with it? :)
20091014 20:31:04< Aethaeryn> <Arc> i know people who've been using it longer than ive been alive and read it more fluently than en@latin
20091014 20:31:22< Arc> well it works
20091014 20:31:27< Arc> what about northeast?
20091014 20:31:27< Chusslove> But?
20091014 20:31:35< Aethaeryn> Why would anyone *want* to do that given the vast amount of literature out there (and easily accessible via the internet now) vs. one play?
20091014 20:31:47< Arc> do you say "any" for northeast?
20091014 20:32:06< Aethaeryn> And wow I had some lag... 4 minutes, even.
20091014 20:32:19< Aethaeryn> i wrote my last line 9 seconds after my first three. :P
20091014 20:32:27< Chusslove> Aethaeryn: Basically, you can make this sort of argument down to a single language/script. Why should we translate into X, when people would be better of speaking/writing English (Latin) fluently?
20091014 20:32:28< Arc> because that would be NE -> North East -> 𐑯𐑹𐑔 𐑰𐑕𐑑 -> 𐑯𐑰 which is pronounced "n-ea"
20091014 20:32:55< loonycyborg> mordante: It can be committed as soon either language dialog could be extended to show unavailable locales or its decided that differentiating them in gui is unnecessary.
20091014 20:33:10< Blarumyrran> HP & XP are hardcoded?
20091014 20:33:16< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: not saying we should not translate into it... just wondering why someone would *choose* to be more fluent in an *extreme* niche script vs. the common script for the language?
20091014 20:33:33< Arc> Aethaeryn: depends.  literature means sitting down to read a book, some people like to play a game instead, and the game gives you it in smaller chunks
20091014 20:33:37< Chusslove> No, they aren't hardcoded, that's why I'm complaining :)
20091014 20:33:41< Blarumyrran> ah
20091014 20:34:03< mordante> loonycyborg, to be honest I think not indicating it will cause less confusion
20091014 20:34:08< Arc> Aethaeryn: spelling reform is a good thing.
20091014 20:34:44< boucman> if anybody want a good laugh, obsere the game with mythological on the server and read all the observer dialogs :)
20091014 20:34:46< Arc> I also kinda like that my laptop is in a script nobody i come into contact with regularly will be able to read
20091014 20:34:47< Chusslove> Aethaeryn: Because they like it? Don't see the need for a better reason.
20091014 20:35:06< Blarumyrran> [19:12] <crimson_penguin> Blarumyrran: ohh, a Wesnothian, eh? || yess
20091014 20:35:06< loonycyborg> mordante: Great! Now convince Ivanovic :)
20091014 20:35:18< Aethaeryn> Arc: unfortunately, people seem to think that the Latin alphabet is actually *better* for literacy than some other scripts. Turkey, for instance, iirc, used to use the Arabic script for Turkish.
20091014 20:35:40< Arc> Aethaeryn: fine for them, not my choice, not the choice for thousands of other people
20091014 20:35:54< mordante> Ivanovic, how do you feel about not indicating whether a locale is there and just allow the usage of LANGUAGE?
20091014 20:36:22< Zarel> Arc: I'm sold. Give me en@shaw please. ;)
20091014 20:36:24< Aethaeryn> mordante: I personally would like that. That way I could use Latin without (forgetting to) enable dummy locales.
20091014 20:36:26< loonycyborg> mordante: Besides that patch doesn't actually remove dummy locales. I'd like to wait with that until it's tested on more platforms.
20091014 20:36:28< Zarel> Does Mac OS X have this language?
20091014 20:36:55< Arc> Zarel: i believe OSX has it in unicode.  𐑒𐑨𐑯 𐑿 𐑮𐑰𐑛 𐑞𐑦𐑕?
20091014 20:37:04< Zarel> Yeah, I can read that.
20091014 20:37:08< Aethaeryn> I cannot. :(
20091014 20:37:11< shadowmaster> neither
20091014 20:37:12< Chusslove> Arc: Anyway, it's normal for English to transcribe acronyms. E.g. Russian ЦАГИ becomes TsAGI, so I don't see a reason for it not to become xxxx in Shavian.
20091014 20:37:32< Zarel> But I mean, does it support it as an interafce language?
20091014 20:37:53< Arc> Aethaeryn: install http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/fonts/Andagii.ttf 
20091014 20:38:16< Arc> Zarel: likely not
20091014 20:38:16< shadowmaster> I have that font installed, it doesn't help.
20091014 20:38:26< Arc> i dont know what the status is though.  I'm part of the Ubuntu team translating the Gnome desktop and many of the apps
20091014 20:38:29< Chusslove> Not trascribing acronyms looks to me like "yeah, it's like a full-fledged script, but let's not carry it *too* far..."
20091014 20:38:40< Aethaeryn> Arc: Ubuntu is not Linux.
20091014 20:38:48< Aethaeryn> That's why I hate Ubuntu. The Ubuntu people treat it like the only distro. :(
20091014 20:38:49< Arc> Aethaeryn: well aware :-)
20091014 20:39:03< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: eh?
20091014 20:39:16< Arc> Aethaeryn: well for example, thats why i'm here, committing our translations upstream vs just adding them to the wesnoth package in Ubuntu
20091014 20:39:19< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: first time I hear that.
20091014 20:39:20< Zarel> You mean Ubuntu isn't the only distro of Linux?
20091014 20:39:21< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Well, some Ubuntu people sometimes... Enough to get on my nerves.
20091014 20:39:30< Arc> while we're an Ubuntu team we commit upstream whenever possible
20091014 20:39:38< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: you have worked with Ubuntu devs?
20091014 20:39:48< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Not Ubuntu devs. Ubuntu users. :P
20091014 20:39:59< shadowmaster> okay, you know that users tend to be quirky.
20091014 20:40:04< shadowmaster> not only Ubuntu users.
20091014 20:40:14< Zarel> Well, that's because they're Ubuntu users. What do you expect? :P
20091014 20:40:22< Arc> well there are a /lot/ of Ubuntu users, and yes many users tend to get smug about it being #1
20091014 20:40:32< Aethaeryn> Eh, there's an air of superiority around a *lot* of Ubuntu users.
20091014 20:40:34 * shadowmaster sees a example of quirky user here.
20091014 20:40:36< Arc> I'm using a gentoo box right now, and I'm arcriley@ubuntu.com - what does that tell you
20091014 20:40:39< Aethaeryn> I guess you just haven't encountered it.
20091014 20:41:13< Arc> i also have a 9.10-beta box sitting next to it via synergy
20091014 20:41:15< Aethaeryn> I guess i shuoldn't have said "hate" Ubuntu. it's more of annoyance...
20091014 20:41:23< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: what Arc means is that users != devs.
20091014 20:41:53< shadowmaster> if you go about to brag about Wesnoth, that doesn't mean we the mainline developers indulge in such practices.
20091014 20:41:53< Arc> and users != members.  Most Ubuntu members I know are very outspoken about contributing to upstream
20091014 20:42:20< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: But Wesnoth *is* the best TBS.
20091014 20:42:31< shadowmaster> see?
20091014 20:42:36-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 20:43:00< Arc> our local LUG has a similar concern - the Ubuntu Local Community Team for this area is more active than the LUG, and is growing to outsize the LUG as well, and it feels threatening to them
20091014 20:43:16< Arc> by "them" i mean "us" because I'm pretty involved with the LUG as well
20091014 20:43:21< Zarel> lololol
20091014 20:43:36< Aethaeryn> Eh, it does seem bothersome because a LUG often seems like an UUG, at least to me.
20091014 20:43:40< Zarel> I wish _we_ had a LUG or Ubuntu Local Community. :/
20091014 20:43:54< Arc> the thing is, don't attack Ubuntu for being successful, if you feel threatened then ramp up your involvement in your own projects
20091014 20:44:09-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 20:44:16< silene> hi
20091014 20:44:19< Arc> Zarel: you don't?  there's LoCos most places on the planet
20091014 20:44:30< Arc> hey silene 
20091014 20:44:45< Aethaeryn> If I had money/talent, I'd make my own OS. I already have an idea I'd believe would work... I just don't have the means...
20091014 20:44:49< mordante> hi silene 
20091014 20:45:04< Zarel> Aethaeryn: You should at least extend an existing OS.
20091014 20:45:06< Zarel> Like Haiku. ;)
20091014 20:45:06< Aethaeryn> I personally believe that most major distros are doing it all wrong when it comes to trying to break that 2%-3% barrier.
20091014 20:45:07< Blarumyrran> I have an idea also!
20091014 20:45:09< Arc> oh btw who here is representing wesnoth at the summit at Google later this month?
20091014 20:45:15< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn knows my idea tho
20091014 20:45:20< Blarumyrran> He might steal it
20091014 20:45:22< Aethaeryn> Zarel: Obviously, it'd use the Linux kernel and a modified GNOME. I'm lazy ;)
20091014 20:45:23< Zarel> Google has a summit? :O
20091014 20:45:29< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: I do know it. >:D
20091014 20:45:30< mordante> loonycyborg, having it in the next release allows more testing and we can revert it if it breaks things
20091014 20:45:38< Arc> Zarel: summer of code summit, yes
20091014 20:46:12< Arc> ah it looks like YogiHH and sapient
20091014 20:46:26< Aethaeryn> Zarel: Starting from scratch is just begging to take a decade or more to get something workable.
20091014 20:47:02< Arc> could always base it on the Gentoo meta-distribution like many people have
20091014 20:47:18< Zarel> Aethaeryn: What are you talking about? Look at how far Hurd has gone in the last two decades! ;)
20091014 20:47:32< Zarel> s/Hurd/GNU\/Hurd/
20091014 20:47:54< Arc> Zarel: you can't use that as an example, the handful of developers working on it have no serious goal of getting it used by the general public
20091014 20:48:05< Arc> HURD is an effort in mental self-pleasuring
20091014 20:48:15< Zarel> I know; 'twas a joke.
20091014 20:48:20< Aethaeryn> Linux was made by one person... :P
20091014 20:48:25< Zarel> Also, iirc, it was originally planned to be used by the general public.
20091014 20:48:39< Arc> sure but the current maintainers have so such goal
20091014 20:49:06< Arc> the x86 platform they're so tied to will be obsolete long before they get it anywhere near ready for general consumption
20091014 20:49:06< Aethaeryn> GNU was intended to be a complete OS, but they were missing a kernel. They decided to use the Linux kernel. They also made GNOME (orignally a GNU project, not anymore) as a free replacement to the (then-proprietary) KDE
20091014 20:49:23< CIA-13> mordante * r39281 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/ (4 files): (log message trimmed)
20091014 20:49:23< CIA-13> Change the handling of double clicks.
20091014 20:49:23< CIA-13> The engine now always tries to generate a double click, if a double
20091014 20:49:23< CIA-13> click is generated it looks whether a widget wants double clicks when
20091014 20:49:23< CIA-13> building the event chain. Depending whether or not it supports a double
20091014 20:49:24< CIA-13> click it tries to send a double or single click.
20091014 20:49:28< CIA-13> After this descission it looks whether a handler is installed, but only
20091014 20:49:30< CIA-13> mordante * r39282 /trunk/ (RELEASE_NOTES src/gui/widgets/toggle_panel.cpp): 
20091014 20:49:30< Arc> Aethaeryn: well they started HURD as the kernel before Linux
20091014 20:49:32< CIA-13> Enabling double clicks in the campaing list again.
20091014 20:49:34< CIA-13> Fixes bug #14497.
20091014 20:49:47< Aethaeryn> Arc: Yes... But it took too long
20091014 20:50:02< loonycyborg> I'd prefer looking at L4 to HURD among microkernels :P
20091014 20:51:14< mordante> boucman, shall we look at the haloes?
20091014 20:51:19< boucman> sure
20091014 20:51:32< Arc> L4-HURD was given up on
20091014 20:51:34< Aethaeryn> But honestly, I don't believe Ubuntu and all the money poured into it is going to achieve its goal...
20091014 20:51:35< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: GNOME replacing KDE?
20091014 20:51:36< Aethaeryn> If you want to break the barrier, you need hardware, not software. Most people won't install an OS.
20091014 20:51:36< boucman> ok, so I've added printf everywhere in halo.cpp 
20091014 20:51:40< shadowmaster> I thought it was intended to replace CDE?
20091014 20:51:48< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: No, qt wasn't free.
20091014 20:51:58< Arc> Aethaeryn: really?  http://www.dell.com/ubuntu seems to show otherwise
20091014 20:52:02< boucman> including monitoring redraws and invalidations and I couldn't find any differences with and without the line that removes the bug....
20091014 20:52:14< boucman> however there is something I don't understand...
20091014 20:52:17< Aethaeryn> Arc: And note that most people aren't buying dell.com/ubuntu PCs
20091014 20:52:20< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#History
20091014 20:52:26< shadowmaster> your terminology may need some fine-tuning
20091014 20:52:28< Arc> i have a local client list of over 200 people in a city around 200k just running Ubuntu
20091014 20:52:49< boucman> when I use :sunset on a test game with a MoL there is a magic "non-refresh" square (i.e it's not hex based)
20091014 20:52:57< boucman> and I didn't find what code could cause that
20091014 20:53:11< Arc> Aethaeryn: it's an option.  there has never been a time that Linux has been so readily available.  i know a lot of people who have bought Dell "N" series who are not geeks at all
20091014 20:53:16< Aethaeryn> Imo, you shuoldn't depend on hardware companies that make their most money off of selling Windows PCs. They'll bury the Linux ones to obscurity.
20091014 20:53:19< boucman> my guess is that the bug is on that side, but I didn't find it
20091014 20:53:48< Aethaeryn> You need to make your *own* hardware company that happens to use linux exclusively, market the hardware and make people want the hardware (kinda like Mac).
20091014 20:53:55< Aethaeryn> Most people don't care about the OS itself.
20091014 20:54:00< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: you read above, right?
20091014 20:54:48< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Yes... I thought that's what I said... GNOME being made because KDE was seen as nonfree. The FSF has a very narrow definition of free. It doesn't even see Debian and Fedora (the two strictest distros) as free.
20091014 20:55:53< Arc> Aethaeryn: um, FSF has a much broader definition than Fedora
20091014 20:56:12< Arc> Fedora doesn't ship MP3 codecs.  the GNU Project includes packages which depend on MP3 libraries.
20091014 20:56:39< Arc> and Debian is well known for having stricter free software guidelines
20091014 20:56:48< Aethaeryn> Arc: A different kind of narrow, then, since FSF doesn't see Fedora or Debian as free despite their rather strict policies due to the kernel.
20091014 20:57:14< Arc> oh thats just RMS being RMS
20091014 20:57:15< grzywacz> Ivanovic, the crackling bug in SDL was fixed yesterday, it will be incorporated in SDL-1.2.14
20091014 20:57:25< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: they don't see Debian as free? :P Citation needed, please.
20091014 20:57:39< shadowmaster> I want to laugh a bit, I'm feeling deppressed lately.
20091014 20:57:49< Arc> mordante: you have any idea why some strings would be rendered as gibberish and others fine?
20091014 20:57:56< Arc> i'll get you a screenshot
20091014 20:58:07< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: have you asked Jetrel to try ssh on his computer yet?
20091014 20:58:13< shadowmaster> (considering Debian has such strict guidelines that do not allow distribution of GNU FDL'd material on the free repo)
20091014 20:58:18< boucman> mordante: any ideas ?
20091014 20:58:27< crimson_penguin> he's the main person who wants a ppc colorizer program too
20091014 20:58:34< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin I know
20091014 20:58:41< mordante> boucman, no looking at the code
20091014 20:58:47< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
20091014 20:58:52< mordante> grzywacz, an ETA for 1.2.14?
20091014 20:58:53< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.html
20091014 20:58:57< boucman> ok
20091014 20:59:07< grzywacz> mordante, very soon, I think they were dalaying it because of this bug
20091014 20:59:08< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin: I contacted him some days ago but I had to go to bed before he replied 
20091014 20:59:19< Aethaeryn> "Debian's Social Contract does say that all software in the main distribution will be free software. Unfortunately, that's not always true in practice."
20091014 20:59:24< grzywacz> mordante, the fix is already in SVN as well.
20091014 20:59:28< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: ah, well I think he's available now
20091014 20:59:57< Arc> mordante: http://media.apogean.org/img/wesnoth-7.png
20091014 21:00:20< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: they're just being pedantic there.
20091014 21:00:30< mordante> grzywacz, Sam also expected it soon last year around this time ;-)
20091014 21:00:40< grzywacz> mordante, :-D
20091014 21:01:01< Arc> mordante: note the 5th button down and the advice box
20091014 21:01:03< grzywacz> mordante, come on, there was even a pre-release candidate published last week ;)
20091014 21:01:16< mordante> grzywacz, really
20091014 21:01:34< mordante> maybe I should subscribe to the ml :-/
20091014 21:02:04< Arc> it seems to be predictably the same buttons
20091014 21:02:13< mordante> Arc, odd
20091014 21:02:45< Arc> thats part of what im trying to track down.  i would expect it to either work or not work everywhere
20091014 21:03:00< Arc> it may be a canvas size issue?
20091014 21:03:15< Arc> the canvas size calc still uses SDL_TTF
20091014 21:03:36< grzywacz> mordante, or maybe these were only the new versions of SDL_* libs ;)
20091014 21:04:32< mordante> Arc, you can add --log-debug=gui/draw to see the size of the drawing area
20091014 21:04:46< mordante> Arc, but it looks more like colour errors
20091014 21:05:07< mordante> I see green pixels on the other buttons as well
20091014 21:05:15< mordante> grzywacz we'll see
20091014 21:05:28< mordante> boucman, can you pastebin your patch
20091014 21:06:00< shadowmaster> um, ubuntu jaunty uses wesnoth 1.6a? :) I hope it includes the patch for avoiding infinite-loops when wesnoth-music is not installed...
20091014 21:09:05< Arc> mordante: you're right
20091014 21:09:32< Arc> shadowmaster: forget about jaunty. karmic is out in 16 days
20091014 21:09:42< shadowmaster> Arc: nah, I'm just wondering about users.
20091014 21:09:47< shadowmaster> I use Debian lenny myself.
20091014 21:10:01< boucman> mordante: what patch ?
20091014 21:10:01< mordante> ilor can you test to enable the join and observe buttons in the new mp lobby, they should work now
20091014 21:10:12< Arc> karmic is being released ith 1.6.5
20091014 21:10:23< Arc> the new ubuntu gaming team will help push to get 1.8 available 
20091014 21:10:23< mordante> Arc, good to know
20091014 21:10:31< mordante> boucman, your debug patch
20091014 21:10:41< boucman> oh, with all the printf
20091014 21:11:01< Arc> mordante: is setting the foreground color a requirement?
20091014 21:11:17< mordante> boucman, yes 
20091014 21:11:36< shadowmaster> mordante: any possibility I can convince you to bring back the black color background to the campaign menu?
20091014 21:12:07< boucman> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m3c2da32b
20091014 21:12:15< boucman> note that there are some specific stuff...
20091014 21:12:36< boucman> in particular the hardcoded number 58 is the id of the halo with my test pattern
20091014 21:12:41< mordante> Arc, no, but the default is solid white, which is wrong
20091014 21:13:43< mordante> shadowmaster, very slim but you're free to do it yourself
20091014 21:15:15< shadowmaster> mordante: maybe it'd be possible to override the default foreground color then?
20091014 21:15:18< Arc> mordante: i know. i dont have the calc to convert from _color to pango color yet
20091014 21:15:20< shadowmaster> I mean, change the default.
20091014 21:15:35< Arc>                 //renderer.set_foreground_colour(color_);
20091014 21:15:58< shadowmaster> Arc: /src/storyscreen/render.cpp has an example of using ttext btw.
20091014 21:16:53< shadowmaster> actually many examples, and storybox_font_color as defined there is the standard GUI color IIRC
20091014 21:17:19< shadowmaster> (well, confirmed, it matches NORMAL_COLOUR from src/font.?pp)
20091014 21:19:31< mordante> Arc, look for get_pango_markup() http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/tags/1.7.3/src/gui/widgets/control.cpp?rev=37865&view=markup
20091014 21:19:45< mordante> Arc, it might help you for converting the markup
20091014 21:19:58< mordante> the code is no longer in trunk, not sure when exactly it got removed
20091014 21:22:14< Arc> huh so not Uint32 const font_color = color_.r<<24 + color_.g<<16 + color_.b<<8 + 255;
20091014 21:22:17< Arc> ?
20091014 21:22:55-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@adsl-99-171-161-30.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 21:23:16< Soliton> there is a color2hexa() function in src/marked-up_text.cpp
20091014 21:23:52< mordante> Arc, that's also possible
20091014 21:24:30< mordante> shadowmaster, at the moment I've no time to look into it, so either you'll need to change it yourself or wait until I've some time
20091014 21:24:36 * mordante goes halo debugging
20091014 21:28:44< Arc> mordante: http://media.apogean.org/img/wesnoth-7.png (reload)
20091014 21:28:57< Arc> color fixed, but the bug remains
20091014 21:29:27-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091014 21:30:41< Arc> the bug isnt just with shaw script
20091014 21:35:49-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 21:40:17< mordante> Arc, is the problem only in the title screen?
20091014 21:44:51< Arc> no its scattered throughout
20091014 21:45:09< Arc> seemingly random places, but predictable, reproducable, and change depending in normal english or shavian english
20091014 21:45:38< Arc> thats why i think it could be a surface size calculation bug
20091014 21:46:17-!- Zarel [n=Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
20091014 21:46:55< Arc> i need to do some font work as well, the Andagii font is just too condense to read easily
20091014 21:49:12< boucman> mordante: found any clues ? (yeah, i'm not good at waiting :P )
20091014 21:52:19< mordante> boucman, no not yet, but it's puzzling
20091014 21:52:24< boucman> :)
20091014 21:52:34< boucman> another clue...
20091014 21:52:49< boucman> apparently the square is not really "refreshed" so to speak
20091014 21:53:02< boucman> it's more like it's "not affected by :sunset"
20091014 21:53:36< boucman> I managed once to have a half greyed hex inside that wasn't redrawn (stayed half grey) but didn't get greyer either
20091014 21:54:28< silene> boucman: is it a square behind a halo? then it's normal it isn't affected by sunset, since the saved surface isn't
20091014 21:54:28< boucman> was the original code written by sirp ?
20091014 21:54:50< boucman> silene: could you explain a little more ?
20091014 21:55:13< silene> boucman: background surface is saved and restored
20091014 21:55:56< boucman> and that background doesn't include the halo itself, does it ?
20091014 21:56:15< silene> no, it doesn't; it's there to delete the halo
20091014 21:57:10-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091014 21:57:20< boucman> hmm
20091014 21:57:24-!- valgor [i=5d7d1097@gateway/web/freenode/x-xazgxdehwpfohoqm] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
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20091014 21:58:01< boucman> silene: and does it handle multiple haloes on the same place properly ?
20091014 21:58:12< boucman> (we have a case of halo staying behind in weird ways
20091014 21:58:22< silene> no idea, i never looked at this part of the code
20091014 21:58:27< boucman> ok
20091014 21:58:29< boucman> thx
20091014 21:58:43< silene> i guess it would fail if the halos weren't unrendered in reverse order
20091014 21:59:22< boucman> ok, so haloes are stacked, each one keeping a surface of what was underneath it...
20091014 21:59:42< silene> that's the idea
20091014 22:00:52< boucman> hmm
20091014 22:01:18< boucman> ok, we might have a start of "race condition" between creation/redraw/deletion here...
20091014 22:02:12< Arc> what about just rendering them as alpha
20091014 22:02:21-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091014 22:02:23< Arc> take advantage of hardware rendering features
20091014 22:02:30< Arc> wesnoth /does/ use 2d opengl right?
20091014 22:02:48< boucman> Arc: the bug is visible because we overlay two identical frames which are alpha enabled
20091014 22:02:58< boucman> and no we don't use openGL (not portable enough)
20091014 22:03:08< loonycyborg> Arc: AFAIK it doesn't even with cairo.
20091014 22:03:39< Arc> opengl isnt portable enough?
20091014 22:03:45< loonycyborg> cairo has an opengl backend, but it isn't fully ready AFAIK.
20091014 22:04:11< boucman> Arc: we didn't manage to have it working on all the platforms wesnoth runs on 
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20091014 22:04:20< Arc> we dont use glitz
20091014 22:05:21< loonycyborg> Arc: Why? What are your issues with it? Is cairo's glitz backend even worked on?
20091014 22:05:40< Arc> it causes problems with other 3d rendering
20091014 22:05:45< Arc> we render to a texture and use that directly
20091014 22:05:52< loonycyborg> It would be very nice if one day wesnoth could just use it.
20091014 22:06:18< Arc> by "we" i mean pysoy
20091014 22:06:22< loonycyborg> Since then you could get 3d acceleration without needing to directly depend on gl.
20091014 22:06:49< loonycyborg> And still work where gl isn't available/advantageous.
20091014 22:07:27< Arc> i may propose to port wesnoth to a 2d variant of our game engine at some point
20091014 22:07:37< Arc> since it would also gain play-via-web
20091014 22:07:51< boucman> Arc: if you do the porting, why not ;)
20091014 22:10:38< Arc> actually no reason not to use the 3d engine, just use a 2d scene.  then you can drop 3d units in and have camera rotation that looks neat
20091014 22:11:00< Arc> or camera zoom into units during dialog
20091014 22:11:46< mordante> Arc, there are a lot of reasons not to do so
20091014 22:11:56< mordante> - not all platforms support OGL
20091014 22:12:11< mordante> - who wants to spend his/her time on ot
20091014 22:12:13< mordante> it*
20091014 22:12:30< Arc> true better to focus on new games
20091014 22:12:43< mordante> exactly
20091014 22:12:49< Arc> though wesnoth has some great storyline content going on
20091014 22:13:02< Aethaeryn> Eh...
20091014 22:13:09< Aethaeryn> The story is probably Wesnoth's weakest point.
20091014 22:13:25< boucman> Arc: going 3D (graphicwise) means redoing all of wesnoth art... and that... more work than rewriting all the code I guess
20091014 22:14:00< mordante> I'm sure of it
20091014 22:14:59< loonycyborg> Aethaeryn: It's better than in many other games, especially among FOSS games :P
20091014 22:15:23< Arc> most free software games lack any singleplayer mode at all due to focus on engine and not on story
20091014 22:15:26< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: have you played NR?
20091014 22:15:32< Arc> i would consider wesnoth's engine to be fairly weak compared to the story
20091014 22:15:51< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I never finished NR. Iirc, I gave up playing around the 10th huge outdoor battle saying "not again"
20091014 22:15:57< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: do not finish it :P
20091014 22:16:02< shadowmaster> it gets worse.
20091014 22:16:19< Arc> NR?
20091014 22:16:24< Aethaeryn> northern rebirth
20091014 22:16:26< shadowmaster> Northern Rebirth
20091014 22:16:31< Arc> oh i played through that
20091014 22:16:42< Arc> the two brothers one is the one that puts you into an infinite loop as a lich at the end right?
20091014 22:16:42< shadowmaster> and you still have your sanity? :P
20091014 22:16:47< shadowmaster> Arc: no.
20091014 22:16:51< Aethaeryn> If you hang around #Wesnoth-* channels, you'll get lost without knowing the acronyms. Doesn't help that they went from a handful to 15
20091014 22:16:53< shadowmaster> that one would be Descent Into Darkness
20091014 22:17:02< Arc> ah
20091014 22:17:12< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: er, that's what shikadibot was originally for :/
20091014 22:17:35< Arc> i think i played through them all at one point.  before i started hitting the gym 3-4 hours a night for recreation 
20091014 22:18:05< shadowmaster> NR would be good for turning my laptop into a cheap toaster.
20091014 22:18:07< boucman> Arc: why do you say the wesnoth engine is weak (in other word, from what point of view ? )
20091014 22:18:20< Aethaeryn> shikadibot: NR?
20091014 22:18:20< shikadibot> NR: Northern Rebirth
20091014 22:18:22< shadowmaster> especially at the point it gets horribly wrong.
20091014 22:18:28< Aethaeryn> interesting
20091014 22:24:26-!- Netsplit pratchett.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: grzywacz, esr, loonybot, happygrue_, YogiHH, Doppp, AI0867
20091014 22:30:07< mordante> boucman, is the comment regarding r14405 from you?
20091014 22:30:34< boucman> yes 
20091014 22:30:58< boucman> you mean r36601 I guess
20091014 22:31:35< mordante> yes, but you didn't log in so wasn't sure whether you or alink left the note
20091014 22:32:15< boucman> yes I realized that after the fact
20091014 22:32:44< Ivanovic> re
20091014 22:32:52< Ivanovic> yogihh: hmm, okay, get it done and add it
20091014 22:32:57< mordante> doesn't matter just wanted to know whether it was one of the usual suspects ;-)
20091014 22:32:59< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20091014 22:33:04< Ivanovic> mordante: hmm, not sure about the lang dialog
20091014 22:33:05< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: 1.7.7 today?
20091014 22:33:10< Aethaeryn> Or do you mean a week from today?
20091014 22:33:11< Ivanovic> though we can try it without indicating
20091014 22:33:35< Ivanovic> and then just wait for bug reports like "the date for saves is in the wrong format!!!"
20091014 22:33:47< mordante> boucman, since I did r33601 long after the rewrite it might be there was a good reason not to invalidate thre
20091014 22:33:48< Ivanovic> yes, really minor, so get it in without indication
20091014 22:33:58< mordante> there*
20091014 22:34:08< Ivanovic> YogiHH: i mean the two strings for th timer, just get them in *really* soon and explicitly state the two strings in the commit message
20091014 22:34:24< boucman> mordante: in that case we would need to re-correct the bug corrected with that particular commit :P
20091014 22:34:27< Ivanovic> grzywacz: great that this annoying bug is finally fixed!
20091014 22:34:43-!- Netsplit over, joins: AI0867, esr, Doppp, grzywacz, loonybot, happygrue_, YogiHH
20091014 22:34:46< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn, crimson_penguin: i mean next wednesday, the stuff from mordante is still not stable enough...
20091014 22:35:05< mordante> Ivanovic, yes it will give some minor glitches but I expect it to be easier to explain it in the bug report then to add an icon which is magic for most users
20091014 22:35:35< mordante> also don't expect a lot of users using a language without the locale installed
20091014 22:35:50< mordante> at least Windows users won't complain :-P
20091014 22:36:10< mordante> boucman, I think that would indeed be the right approach
20091014 22:36:18< boucman> oh
20091014 22:36:24< boucman> I was joking :P
20091014 22:36:38< Soliton> maybe some mouseover hint can be added?
20091014 22:37:19< YogiHH> Ivanovic: saw my question about the string freeze?
20091014 22:37:29< Soliton> he answered it, too.
20091014 22:39:45< mordante> boucman, clearly that commit introduced the bug also the halo parts remaining seems to be caused by it so it seems the fix is wrong or at least needs a condition
20091014 22:40:23< mordante> Soliton, I would prefer that as well, but we that needs to be postponed until post 1.8
20091014 22:40:27< boucman> or unrevealed another bug... I really have no idea how it's supposed to work so I can't tell. I trust your jugement on that
20091014 22:41:13< Soliton> mordante: gui2 can't do it yet? ok. i agree that it's likely not going to confuse a lot of people anyway.
20091014 22:41:24< YogiHH> Soliton: hmm, can't find that answer, when was it?
20091014 22:41:44< Soliton> YogiHH: while you were split. :-P
20091014 22:41:55< Soliton> <Ivanovic> yogihh: hmm, okay, get it done and add it
20091014 22:41:55< YogiHH> ah :)
20091014 22:42:01< Soliton> <Ivanovic> YogiHH: i mean the two strings for th timer, just get them in *really* soon and explicitly state the two strings in the commit message
20091014 22:42:07< mordante> Soliton, not sure whether it's working in gui2 at the moment, but we're in a string freeze
20091014 22:42:36< Soliton> mordante: see above about bug fixes. ;-)
20091014 22:43:02< Ivanovic> re
20091014 22:43:09< mordante> boucman, the longer I look at r36601, the more I feel to simply revert it
20091014 22:43:17< Ivanovic> (yeah, was again for some mins and you were typing too much...)
20091014 22:43:28< mordante> boucman, I'm happy I tend to be verbose in my commit messages ;-)
20091014 22:43:33-!- Blarumyrran [n=minaise@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit []
20091014 22:43:47< boucman> mordante: that's fine by me, but are you able to reproduce (and possibly fix) whatever it was supposed to fix ?
20091014 22:43:52< boucman> hehe
20091014 22:43:58< boucman> wesbot: log r36601
20091014 22:44:00< wesbot> mordante * r36601 : Fixes teleporting leaving a unit halo.The probkem has been spotted by MJ999, who also provided this patch. I haven'tbeen able to reproduce the problem, but the invalidation should have been therebefore.
20091014 22:44:04< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=36601
20091014 22:44:30< mordante> boucman, no but I'm also not sure whether it then was a real bug ;-P
20091014 22:44:43< boucman> "the invalidation should have been therebefore" <= this probably mean that at the time you did the rewrite that invalidation made sense to you
20091014 22:45:05< boucman> mordante: well, try giving a MoL the teleport special ;)
20091014 22:45:20< mordante> <mordante> boucman, since I did r33601 long after the rewrite it might be there was a good reason not to invalidate thre
20091014 22:45:32-!- EdB [n=edb@235.101.196-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 22:45:36< boucman> oh, 
20091014 22:45:42< boucman> nevermind then
20091014 22:46:14< mordante> I'll test a bit more with teleporting and see whether I can find new glitches
20091014 22:47:07< mordante> ah ok Soliton I missed that message
20091014 22:47:41< shadowmaster> ed/23dd
20091014 22:48:05< crimson_penguin> by the way, I got a crash when I won a local MP game... it's quite possible it's a problem on my end, but, just thought I'd mention it anyway
20091014 22:48:09 * crimson_penguin disappears
20091014 22:49:08< Soliton> crimson_penguin: is it a standard feature on macs that you can start apps only once via their icon? (like i hear it works with wesnoth)
20091014 22:49:29< crimson_penguin> Soliton: yup
20091014 22:49:48< Soliton> crimson_penguin: is there a simple way around it?
20091014 22:49:52< crimson_penguin> Soliton: you can start it from the Terminal as many times as you want
20091014 22:50:37< crimson_penguin> Soliton: which is pretty easy to do; open Terminal (/Applications/Utilities/Terminal), drag Wesnoth into the window, then add to the path /Contents/MacOSX/Wesnoth
20091014 22:51:24< Soliton> i've just seen some people complaining that they can't start two instance of wesnoth on macs. not sure if it's easy for them, sounded to me like it's probably not. :-P
20091014 22:52:39< CIA-13> jhinrichs * r39283 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Fixes bug #13866 (missing tooltip for clock/timer). Also introduces two new strings, namely "system time" and "turn time".
20091014 22:53:28< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: So it's OK to commit LANGUAGE patch as is?
20091014 22:53:44< Ivanovic> no idea, i have not tested it...
20091014 22:54:17< loonycyborg> I mean the indication issue :)
20091014 22:55:05< Ivanovic> yes, without any indication to show if the locale is available or if we cheat
20091014 22:56:00< mordante> Ivanovic, how do you feel about adding a tooltip for it?
20091014 22:57:39< Ivanovic> not good at all
20091014 22:58:10< CIA-13> soliton * r39284 /trunk/utils/mp-server/update_server: corrected symbolic link source
20091014 22:58:30-!- EdB [n=edb@235.101.196-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091014 23:00:16< mordante> Ivanovic, due to the string freeze or in genera
20091014 23:00:22< Ivanovic> string freeze
20091014 23:00:23< mordante> general*
20091014 23:00:36< Ivanovic> though i think in general this is also problematic to get it right
20091014 23:01:11< mordante> why?
20091014 23:01:41< mordante> boucman, I tested the original report again and still can't get the haloes to remain lingering
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20091014 23:01:53< Ivanovic> i think this stuff as plain mouse over is strange
20091014 23:01:58< mordante> boucman, so I rather revert the commit, since we know the commit breaks things
20091014 23:02:05< Ivanovic> some icon + a mouse over over the icon, yeah, okay
20091014 23:02:12< mordante> wesbot seen MJ999
20091014 23:02:13< wesbot> mordante: Sorry, I don't know of MJ999.
20091014 23:02:37-!- rtfb [n=read-the@78-56-0-35.static.zebra.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091014 23:03:17< mordante> I only think a mouse over doesn't generate as much questions as an icon
20091014 23:03:29< mordante> and I hope people don't notice the mouse over ;-)
20091014 23:04:37< CIA-13> soliton * r39285 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: don't try to read a file with no name
20091014 23:04:41< CIA-13> soliton * r39286 /trunk/src/server/game.cpp: allow unbanning yourself
20091014 23:04:47< CIA-13> soliton * r39287 /trunk/src/server/ (game.cpp game.hpp): added a non-const version of find_user()
20091014 23:04:50< CIA-13> soliton * r39288 /trunk/src/server/ (game.cpp game.hpp): put the missing user info logic in a function
20091014 23:04:54< CIA-13> soliton * r39289 /trunk/src/server/ (game.cpp game.hpp): put the username logic in a function
20091014 23:07:09< Ivanovic> mordante: just leave it out for the moment
20091014 23:07:17< Ivanovic> so no indication that something is different
20091014 23:07:23< mordante> ok
20091014 23:07:40< Ivanovic> use the locale and set everything if it is found, just set the LC_MESSAGES (or whatever it was) string when the locale is not found
20091014 23:07:52< Aethaeryn> mordante: so your new GUI will be enabled by default in 1.8?
20091014 23:08:31< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: parts of it were already in 1.6.x
20091014 23:08:33< Ivanovic> ;)
20091014 23:08:33< mordante> Aethaeryn, it's already enabled in 1.6
20091014 23:08:57< mordante> only some parts which I deem not stable enough are hidden under --new-widgets
20091014 23:09:05< Aethaeryn> mordante: The multiplayer server? Theme WML?
20091014 23:09:19< mordante> the server has no gui :-P
20091014 23:09:28< Aethaeryn> bah
20091014 23:09:35< Aethaeryn> the multiplayer client :P
20091014 23:09:35< mordante> the mp lobby should be enabled for 1.8
20091014 23:09:45< mordante> but there are some issues left to fix
20091014 23:09:54< mordante> theme wml hasn't been rewritten yet
20091014 23:10:00< CIA-13> loonycyborg * r39290 /trunk/src/language.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20091014 23:10:00< CIA-13> Fallback to setting language with LANGUAGE environment variable if setting locale fails.
20091014 23:10:00< CIA-13> That should allow setting language to language locale for which isn't
20091014 23:10:00< CIA-13> installed, or to language that doesn't have a glibc locale such as
20091014 23:10:00< CIA-13> Latin. Unlike dummy locales that doesn't require setting
20091014 23:10:02< CIA-13> compile-time/runtime options. Though for now there's no GUI indication which
20091014 23:10:04< CIA-13> languages have full locales available and which are set with LANGUAGE
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20091014 23:14:43< CIA-13> soliton * r39291 /trunk/src/server/ (game.cpp game.hpp): explicitly log the player names when starting a game
20091014 23:15:42< Ivanovic> YogiHH: please make the string "turn time" more clear
20091014 23:15:52< Ivanovic> something like "time left for current turn" or something like this
20091014 23:16:13< Ivanovic> and instead of system time maybe something like "current time" or the likes
20091014 23:16:13< YogiHH> ok, sounds good
20091014 23:16:53< YogiHH> Ivanovic: how about "clock" or is that too simple?
20091014 23:17:17< Ivanovic> hmm, might be a little too simple since it could be any kind of clock
20091014 23:17:27< YogiHH> ok
20091014 23:18:14< Ivanovic> everybody: any idea what to use as informative mouse over if the current local/system time is shown ingame instead of the time left??
20091014 23:19:00< Ivanovic> YogiHH: hmm, "current local time" could work
20091014 23:19:21< CIA-13> mordante * r39292 /trunk/ (changelog src/halo.cpp): 
20091014 23:19:21< CIA-13> Revert r36601.
20091014 23:19:21< CIA-13> I've never been able to reproduce the bug it should fix and tested again after
20091014 23:19:21< CIA-13> reverting the commit. Reverted it since the commit introduced bug #14405. The
20091014 23:19:21< CIA-13> bug was uncovered by r38335.
20091014 23:19:48< mordante> boucman, ^
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20091014 23:30:45< boucman> mordante: ok, sounds good
20091014 23:31:27< mordante> let's see whether or not it caused a regression ;-)
20091014 23:31:56< CIA-13> jhinrichs * r39293 /trunk/src/ (play_controller.cpp replay_controller.cpp): Changing timer strings from "system time" to "current local time" and "turn time" to "time left for current turn".
20091014 23:36:49< CIA-13> mordante * r39294 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/control.cpp: Remove an unused function.
20091014 23:37:02< CIA-13> mordante * r39295 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): WIP
20091014 23:37:22< shadowmaster> ohhh, three-letter commit message!
20091014 23:38:00< mordante> hmm I wonder what's in there :-/
20091014 23:38:37< mordante> and how it ended up in my master branch
20091014 23:38:46< loonycyborg> mordante: You use git stash for that :P
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20091014 23:39:08< shadowmaster> mordante: git show -p `git-svn find-rev r39295` ?
20091014 23:39:36< shadowmaster> or just git show -p for me since it's at HEAD, ohh shiny
20091014 23:39:44< Svenstar0> Hey, I just had a look throguh the GUI docs but I can't find a way to focus an input widget by default. I assume that this hasn't been added yet. How is default focus determined?
20091014 23:40:02< mordante> oh funny :-/ I apparently switched to my WIP branch while dcommit was still running...
20091014 23:40:15< shadowmaster> some code was commented, um, it looks certainly uncanny!
20091014 23:40:39< shadowmaster> Svenstar0: mordante may help you if you are talking about GUI2.
20091014 23:40:44< mordante> Svenstar0, which documentation did you read?
20091014 23:41:12 * mordante makes a mental note not to switch branches while dcommit is running...
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20091014 23:41:32< Svenstar0> mordante, all info available in the wiki about gui2
20091014 23:41:55< Svenstar0> mordante in /DeveloperResources that is
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20091014 23:43:15< mordante> Svenstar0, you can set the focus but only from the code side
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20091014 23:43:42< mordante> in fact you can even chain widgets so events can get from one widget to the next
20091014 23:43:58< mordante> (still not sure it's a feature or a bug ;-P )
20091014 23:44:06< Svenstar0> mordante, cool! Could you point me to where I can read more about that or give me a tad of insight on that yourself? 
20091014 23:44:25< Svenstar0> Since at least on the wiki I can't find more about that :/
20091014 23:44:59< mordante> get_window()->keyboard_capture(widget);
20091014 23:45:23< mordante> no the wiki mainly documents the WML side of things
20091014 23:45:33< Svenstar0> so that'd be the .cfgs?
20091014 23:45:39< mordante> yes
20091014 23:46:00< shadowmaster> free -m
20091014 23:46:00< mordante> http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/ documents the code and all gui2 code is in gui/* 
20091014 23:46:25< mordante> and you can also look at gui/dialogs/* for examples of the dialogs
20091014 23:46:39< mordante> just curious, but what do you want to do?
20091014 23:46:41< shadowmaster> ah sorry, it looks like my system burped for no reason at all :/
20091014 23:47:11< Svenstar0> mordante, thanks, will do! :D
20091014 23:47:37< CIA-45> mordante * r39296 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20091014 23:47:37< CIA-45> Revert 39295.
20091014 23:47:37< CIA-45> Don't try to switch branches when git svn dcommit is still running...
20091014 23:47:37< Svenstar0> mordante, I want the mp lobby to focus on the chat by default and not the filter. Should be a pie to do.
20091014 23:48:02< shadowmaster> mordante: at least it compiled ,)
20091014 23:48:28< mordante> shadowmaster, of course it compiled otherwise I wouldn't have committed it locally
20091014 23:48:44< shadowmaster> and it runs )
20091014 23:49:04< mordante> be happy I just put all tiny commits in one big one :-P
20091014 23:49:36< mordante> Svenstar0, yes that should be easy, maybe ilor wants to do that by default
20091014 23:49:47< Svenstar0> Submitting a patch, I talk to you guys first as it says on the wiki, right? Do I always have to open a bug before that to fix it formally?
20091014 23:50:46< mordante> no just a patch is enought
20091014 23:50:50< mordante> enough*
20091014 23:51:48< boucman> night all
20091014 23:51:56< mordante> night boucman 
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20091014 23:53:22< mordante> shadowmaster, and you can click on the buttons in the mp lobby, which ilor will like
20091014 23:53:58< mordante> of course he won't like my idea to disable the code behind the buttons ;-)
20091014 23:54:02< shadowmaster> mordante: in the "WIP" commit? or at HEAD now?
20091014 23:54:09< mordante> WIP
20091014 23:54:09< Ivanovic> mordante: refresh issue in the main menu
20091014 23:54:17< mordante> Ivanovic, what/
20091014 23:54:19< mordante> ?*
20091014 23:54:24< Ivanovic> switch to shavian (currently borked resulting in long buttons)
20091014 23:54:27< Ivanovic> then switch to german
20091014 23:54:37< Ivanovic> see the "rest" of the old boxes left
20091014 23:54:49< Ivanovic> maybe force a complete redraw of the title screen after a lang change?
20091014 23:55:01< shadowmaster> mordante: what is the Help button supposed to do btw?
20091014 23:55:02< mordante> Ivanovic, with or without --new-widgets?
20091014 23:55:13< Ivanovic> mordante: starting without any params
20091014 23:55:15< shadowmaster> since it doesn't seem to do anything.
20091014 23:55:22< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Does that mean you've tested the LANGUAGE fallback? :)
20091014 23:55:30< loonycyborg> mordante: I'm getting that too.
20091014 23:55:34< Ivanovic> revision 39292
20091014 23:55:38< shadowmaster> ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:996:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
20091014 23:55:39< mordante> Ivanovic, I'll test but I think it's a known issue
20091014 23:55:41< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: jupp
20091014 23:55:49< shadowmaster> um forked wesnothd still kills the sound system
20091014 23:56:03< mordante> shadowmaster, which help button?
20091014 23:56:13< shadowmaster> mordante: the one in the --new-widgets lobby
20091014 23:56:32< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: it should open the ingame help
20091014 23:56:48< Ivanovic> just like it does without any param
20091014 23:57:07< shadowmaster> well, it doesn't (at HEAD, Not "WIP")
20091014 23:57:21< mordante> shadowmaster, tell ilor
20091014 23:57:45< shadowmaster> ilor: I'd tell you this but you aren't here and I'm too lazy to submit a bug report now.
20091014 23:57:48< mordante> Ivanovic, loonycyborg reproduced the bug and it's already reported too lazy to search for the number
20091014 23:57:59< Ivanovic> okay
20091014 23:58:10< shadowmaster> ... and I need to resurrect the sound system.
20091014 23:58:10< mordante> gui2 fixes it
20091014 23:58:14< Ivanovic> some "force refresh" when changing the language should be everything needed (since that is the only situation it can happen in)
20091014 23:58:16< Ivanovic> ahh, okay
20091014 23:58:26< mordante> or it will fix it
20091014 23:58:37< shadowmaster> okay, it looks like the forked wesnothd's presence is all that is needed for ALSA not to work? wth.
20091014 23:58:54< mordante> well I hope to replace the title screen in 1.8, it's on of the longest active WIP dialogs
20091014 23:59:08< shadowmaster> and now it doesn't want to die again. :|
--- Log closed Thu Oct 15 00:00:57 2009