--- Log opened Tue Oct 27 00:00:51 2009
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20091027 00:19:23< Sapient> lol... http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=391030#p391030"
20091027 00:19:43< Sapient> that should go in the fortunes, "balance= Hodor + (gold cost) x Hodor"
20091027 00:20:41< Mythological> what the hell does that mean?
20091027 00:20:57< Sapient> hi Mythological
20091027 00:21:04< Mythological> hi Sapient, hi everyone
20091027 00:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 92 bugs, 236 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091027 00:21:53< Sapient> Mythological: it means, if you ask a stupid question you will get a stupid answer ;)
20091027 00:23:41< Mythological> heh, nice interpretation
20091027 00:29:05< Ivanovic> Hodor!
20091027 00:30:28< Ivanovic> for those not knowing hodor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire_characters#Hodor
20091027 00:31:46< Ivanovic> looks like it is about time for me to head off to bed to dream about cute, little baby kittens and chinese food
20091027 00:31:49< Ivanovic> ;)
20091027 00:31:51< Ivanovic> n8
20091027 00:36:38< Nayela> e
20091027 00:36:41< Nayela> Oops
20091027 00:36:44< Nayela> >.<
20091027 00:36:56< Nayela> Sorry about that.. Firefox crashed while I was typing
20091027 00:40:36< Aethaeryn> Mythological: hodor = hodor over dwarves; outlaws rule!
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20091027 00:50:16< loonycyborg> Hodor is playing style involving recruiting only outlaws and possibly rogues or poachers in order to humilate an inept opponent.
20091027 00:51:25< Aethaeryn> yes... thugs and yeti count, too
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20091027 00:51:33< Mythological> I was there when HODOR got invented ;)
20091027 00:51:42< loonycyborg> That formula means that the power of Hodor gives multiplicative bonus :P
20091027 00:52:04< Mythological> jb took the name HODOR from a charscter in a fiction novel
20091027 00:52:22< Mythological> character*
20091027 00:58:59< sednem> Hi, first, please excuse if I do some mistakes in english, I'm french. I don't know if it's the good place to ask it : I played at the french version of the game and saw that many texts are not translated; for some times I wanted to help a free project (but I think I haven't skill enough to help in the code). I would like to help in translating the texts into french. How can I do that? (are yout using special files, and where can I find 
20091027 00:59:55< Soliton> you got cut off at "where can I find".
20091027 01:00:07< sednem> ah
20091027 01:00:15< loonycyborg> sednem: Basically you edit some text files and send them to french translation maintainer.
20091027 01:00:31< sednem> to Soliton: it was finshed
20091027 01:01:05< loonycyborg> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FrenchTranslation
20091027 01:01:26< sednem> thank you
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20091027 01:11:05< Mythological> btw... is there a guide at how exactly the translation process works, especially the part about the commiting the translated strings to SVN?
20091027 01:12:25< Mythological> -the
20091027 01:12:35< Ivanovic> Mythological: there is, the "Translation Maintainers" section does cover it: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslationsHowTo
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20091027 01:13:39< Mythological> thank you very much Ivanovic
20091027 01:13:53< Ivanovic> that is at least the part relevant for translators
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20091027 01:14:16< Ivanovic> internally it is some evil black magic (including sacrifising goats and virgins)
20091027 01:14:44< Ivanovic> first you have to hail satan to get the files and later on shed blood to get updated files into the rep
20091027 01:15:32< Mythological> that sounds like fun ;)
20091027 01:15:49< Mythological> I hope Sapient did not read us...
20091027 01:16:12< Ivanovic> Sapient knows that translations require some evil stuff
20091027 01:16:29< Ivanovic> that is why he left, so that he does not really read all the details
20091027 01:18:15< Ivanovic> really off to bed now
20091027 01:18:39< Mythological> good night
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20091027 02:12:16< CIA-58> esr * r39492 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (scenarios/15_save_the_king.cfg utils/deaths.cfg): 
20091027 02:12:16< CIA-58> Fix bug 14536: Delfador's Memoir - objectives go wrong after killing Zorlan
20091027 02:12:16< CIA-58> on Medium/Hard diff.
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20091027 03:06:56< Mythological> wesbot: seen Torangan
20091027 03:06:56< wesbot> Mythological: Sorry, I don't know of Torangan.
20091027 03:08:29< Espreon> Mythological: I never saw Torangan on IRC.
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20091027 03:08:54< Espreon> Hello Sapient.
20091027 03:08:56< Mythological> I think I've seen him on wesntoh-dev in the past
20091027 03:08:56< Sapient> hi
20091027 03:09:02< Mythological> but that was long ago
20091027 03:09:14< Sapient> I just posted the pictures from the summit in the User's Forum
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20091027 03:10:09< Sapient> Espreon: looking for me?
20091027 03:10:27< Espreon> Nope, I was just greeting you.
20091027 03:10:36< Sapient> ah, ok. I'm off then
20091027 03:10:41< Sapient> have fun
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20091027 03:11:58< Mythological> wesbot: seen torangan
20091027 03:11:59< wesbot> Mythological: Sorry, I don't know of torangan.
20091027 03:12:22< Mythological> Espreon: actually, I'm positive I've met with torangan in the past
20091027 03:12:57< Espreon> I've been joining these channels for quite a while and I do not remember torangan being here.
20091027 03:13:01< Espreon> That's all I know.
20091027 03:13:13< Soliton> yeah, he's been here before but not for a long time now.
20091027 03:13:43< Mythological> I'm sure because it was tornagan on irc who talked me into becoming a translation maintainer
20091027 03:14:31< Mythological> that was about a year ago
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20091027 09:41:45< CIA-58> esr * r39493 /trunk/data/core/ (about.cfg macros/ai_controller.cfg): wmllint cleanup
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20091027 10:22:16< CIA-58> esr * r39494 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/18_the_portal_of_doom.cfg: 
20091027 10:22:16< CIA-58> Fix bug #14537: "Delfador's Memoirs - Delfador/Iliah-Malal Dialogue in The
20091027 10:22:16< CIA-58> Portal Of Doom" by resurrecting Iliah-Malal on his keep, if need be,
20091027 10:22:16< CIA-58> before final dialog.
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20091027 10:28:32< Ivanovic> moin
20091027 10:32:36< esr> Ivanovic: Morning.
20091027 10:34:03< esr> Am back at work, have just disposed of 3 bugs and am working on a 4th.  Don't count on this continuing, though - another project I'm just launching now will probably eat most of my time until 2010.
20091027 10:34:19< esr> Mid-2010, I mean.
20091027 10:35:23< Ivanovic> good to know
20091027 10:52:17< esr> I've decide I need to give the forge ecosystem a good swift kick in the pants.  Starting by writing tools for migrasting projects between forges.
20091027 10:53:19< esr> "Migrating" = repositories, bugtracker, and mailing lists all re-host automatically. PHBB is going to be nasty.  
20091027 10:53:56< Ivanovic> ugh, okay, this sounds like *lots* of work
20091027 10:54:27< Ivanovic> okay, for repositories there are probably already tools you can hook into, but migrating bugtrackers and mailling lists is probably a lot more work
20091027 10:55:00< esr> Actually I'm much further along than I thought I'd be.  I can already pull complete bugtracker state from Savannah, Gna, and Berlios.  
20091027 10:55:13< Ivanovic> that is cool
20091027 10:55:15< esr> Thought I'd be three weeks into it, I mean.
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20091027 10:55:41< esr> Yes, I've been piulling Wesboth bugtracker state occasionally as a test.
20091027 10:56:22< esr> I' m wotrking with the SourceForge gutys on a handler class for that site.
20091027 10:56:48< esr> And I don't thnk Alioth is or Launchpad will be difficult.
20091027 10:58:15< esr> You are right - pullling repops isn't a big deal.  Replicating mailing lists is going to be a pain, though, at least when they're MaiLMan 2.x - the MaiLMan devs clainm to have build good export into 3.x, but that's not deployed much yet.
20091027 10:58:52< esr> As you see, that Berlios crash had consequences.
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20091027 11:01:07< esr> I hace also seen the future of forge systems.  There's a *breathtakingly* elegant design called Roundup - it's a discussion moderation system that unifies mailing lists, forums, and bugtrackers.  Att some hooks for repo operations and you've got a forge.
20091027 11:05:16< esr> http://roundup.sourceforge.net/index.html
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20091027 11:46:48< Ivanovic> esr: so far my experience with the existing sf.net bugtracker was *not* pleasant at all
20091027 11:47:19< Ivanovic> though i have not spent too much time with it
20091027 11:47:31< Ivanovic> was two or three bug reports for some projects
20091027 11:47:43< Ivanovic> but eg searching for "relevant reports" was not too much fun
20091027 11:47:47< esr> Ivanovic: Yeah, as is it sucks pretty bsadly.  The SF guys know this; I've been communicating with them.
20091027 11:48:06< Ivanovic> good
20091027 11:48:11< esr> Savane is actually quite wll designed in this respect.
20091027 11:48:33< Ivanovic> yes, savanne works really nicely for me, especially the repo integration is lovely
20091027 11:53:41< loonycyborg> 'repo integration' is comments automatically added to bug report if the bug number is mentioned in commit message? That's indeed nice.
20091027 11:56:38< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: exactly
20091027 11:57:44< Ivanovic> i would not be too suprised if there was some mechanism to say "this was fixed in revision 1234567" adn "revision 1234567" is automagically made a link to the respective commit
20091027 11:57:58< Ivanovic> no idea if something like this exists and what the syntax for it might be
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20091027 12:10:54< CIA-58> ivanovic * r39495 /trunk/ (data/core/about.cfg po/wesnoth-multiplayer/pt_BR.po): updated Portuguese (Brazil) translation
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20091027 16:28:29< fendrin> Crab_: hello
20091027 16:29:19< Crab_> hi
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20091027 16:37:20< fendrin> Crab_: Do you know anything left to do for 1.8?
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20091027 16:40:55< Crab_> yes, some c++ pieces of code that are to be refactored, plus some work on documentation and c++ @todo's that are left. not much WML work, i'd say. but, I don't trust last two scenarios of LoW enough. I've haven't managed yet to play the last one without bugs :)
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20091027 16:53:46< esr> fendrin: I'll take bug  #14535; thast's the last known DM bug.
20091027 16:54:22< esr> I wouldn't be happy about shipping 1.8 with 90 bugs, though.  
20091027 16:55:03< esr> We've got a lot of wotrk to do cleaning up the buglist.
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20091027 17:25:20< fendrin> Crab_: The last scenario is a straight battle, so I guess the bugs have all been with splitting the army?
20091027 17:34:20< Crab_> yes
20091027 17:34:32< Crab_> things like 'you win on scenario start'
20091027 17:34:58< crimson_penguin> esr: turns out the solution is actually in SDL's FAQ, heh; http://www.libsdl.org/faq.php?action=listentries&category=9#90
20091027 17:35:10< crimson_penguin> although, we'll see if it actually works, since that patch doesn't look like it would
20091027 17:35:19< esr> Ah.
20091027 17:39:49< CIA-58> esr * r39496 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
20091027 17:39:49< CIA-58> Chamged my mind about using the King of Wesnoth special unitin "Save the King".
20091027 17:39:49< CIA-58> Affects bug #14535, issua (a).
20091027 17:39:49< CIA-58> Also, get rid of now unused Crown Prince unit.
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20091027 17:46:37< crimson_penguin> esr: It does work
20091027 17:47:36< esr> OK, now, the next question: can we find a way to selectively swtch off screensaving only during thw AI turns?
20091027 17:50:55< crimson_penguin> Well you could try setting the env var multiple times (or, unsetting it and setting it again), I don't know if it would work, but it probably would
20091027 17:53:10< fendrin> stats.wesnoth.org isn't working for me. It never gives me any results.
20091027 17:55:17< fendrin> the webfrontend is a nightmare
20091027 17:55:28< CIA-58> esr * r39497 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/units/Mage_Magister.cfg: (log message trimmed)
20091027 17:55:28< CIA-58> Address bug #14535, minor glitches in Delfador's Memoirs (Mage
20091027 17:55:28< CIA-58> Magister & Garard), by powering up the Mage Magister's staff attack -
20091027 17:55:28< CIA-58> for storyline reasons it should be better than a Great Mage's.
20091027 17:55:28< CIA-58> This isn't as unbalancing as it looks; Delf relies on his fireballs
20091027 17:55:32< CIA-58> rather than staff, and the way the campaign is designed he's
20091027 17:55:34< CIA-58> normally going to be pretty screwed if he goes into melee even
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20091027 18:08:27< Aethaeryn> Any forum mod around?
20091027 18:08:47< zookeeper> what do you need?
20091027 18:09:25< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27567&start=0 <- Since this is a sprite thread, it should be moved from Faction & Era Contributions.
20091027 18:09:34< Aethaeryn> to Art Workshop
20091027 18:11:05< zookeeper> done
20091027 18:11:27< zookeeper> (lame thread btw)
20091027 18:11:30< Aethaeryn> In other news, Woodmouse might have competition.
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20091027 18:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 87 bugs, 236 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091027 19:10:48< mordante> servus
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20091027 19:11:43< mordante> Ivanovic, the bugs seems to be in the hover popups so should already be there for a week ;-) Will try to reproduce it later
20091027 19:12:33< mordante> esr, roundup looks nice, but seems they had a good look at trac
20091027 19:13:19< esr> mordante: Which I haven't examined yet, but it's on my list.
20091027 19:13:33< mordante> esr, trac or roundup?
20091027 19:14:02< esr> trac.  I spent yesterday digesting Roundup.  It rocks.  Hard.
20091027 19:14:21< mordante> esr, there are about GUI bugs on my name, and I think about 30 will be postponed
20091027 19:14:39< mordante> esr, I think you'll like trac roundup looks a lot like it and it
20091027 19:14:45< mordante> 's written in python
20091027 19:15:06< esr> Perhaps, I've heard bad rumors about trac.
20091027 19:15:24< mordante> like what?
20091027 19:20:50< mordante> crimson_penguin, I'm off to diner, want to look at your colour problem after that
20091027 19:20:59< crimson_penguin> k
20091027 19:21:09 * crimson_penguin goes to eat pie
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20091027 19:38:58< esr> mordante: Several people whiave actually used trac clasim that it's basrely usable "tries to do erverything and does nothing well" was the ay one of them put it.
20091027 19:39:14< esr> s/whiave/who have/
20091027 19:39:30< esr> I have no opinion yet, noy having used it.
20091027 19:39:40< esr> s/noy/not/
20091027 20:00:40< mordante> esr, ok 
20091027 20:00:56< mordante> crimson_penguin, my dinner is finished how's your pie?
20091027 20:01:26< crimson_penguin> I finished it, but I really should've gotten more :P
20091027 20:01:34< mordante> :-)
20091027 20:01:59< crimson_penguin> I'm trying to learn how to use Numbers' formulas, and it's rather annoying
20091027 20:02:06< crimson_penguin> but anyway, I'm pretty free
20091027 20:02:44< mordante> ok
20091027 20:04:07< mordante> crimson_penguin, how do normal dialogs when players talk look? good or also wrong?
20091027 20:04:24< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: good to know that there's someone interested in maintaining the spanish translation.
20091027 20:04:40< crimson_penguin> I remember they were good, but I'm gonna get it so I can actually test
20091027 20:04:41< shadowmaster> I'm afraid I cannot offer much help right now since I have to fix some parts of the house. :/
20091027 20:05:41< crimson_penguin> mordante: yeah, they're fine
20091027 20:06:47< mordante> crimson_penguin, ok, what's you're colour depth?
20091027 20:07:07< crimson_penguin> 32
20091027 20:07:36< crimson_penguin> mordante: btw, you did see the burned in text, right?
20091027 20:07:44< crimson_penguin> that happens with tooltips on the bottom of the screen as well
20091027 20:08:39< crimson_penguin> wow, new OS X doesn't even give you the option to change number of colors...
20091027 20:09:03< mordante> crimson_penguin, yes that also happens after the update of SDL?
20091027 20:09:23< crimson_penguin> mordante: that only happens with the new SDL
20091027 20:09:31< crimson_penguin> I... think
20091027 20:09:34< mordante> I think the first problem is in the blur algorithm...
20091027 20:09:52< crimson_penguin> yeah, I was thinking that might be it too
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20091027 20:10:22< crimson_penguin> Wesnoth seems rather sluggish with the new SDL :-/
20091027 20:14:50< crimson_penguin> yeah, the text thing doesn't happen with the old SDL
20091027 20:15:23< mordante> guess some of the low level fiddling stuff on mac got changed
20091027 20:16:22< crimson_penguin> so um... the new SDL also makes things MUCH less smooth
20091027 20:16:59< crimson_penguin> with the older SDL things are basically perfect, and when scrolling, CPU goes up to a max of 35% - new SDL, it doesn't feel as responsive, and it can go up to 90%
20091027 20:17:07< crimson_penguin> (or possibly more, I didn't test as much)
20091027 20:17:40< mordante> crimson_penguin, reading this http://playcontrol.net/ewing/jibberjabber/big_behind-the-scenes_chang.html and I get the feeling the Mac changes are more a rewrite as a minor update
20091027 20:18:17< crimson_penguin> yeah, no longer using QuickDraw is a huge change
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20091027 20:24:22< mordante> crimson_penguin, if it's much slower I wonder whether it's wise to upgrade does it have advantages?
20091027 20:25:00< crimson_penguin> well, I'll read this page
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20091027 20:32:25< crimson_penguin> mordante: but presumably eventually we'll wanna upgrade to SDL 1.3
20091027 20:33:14< mordante> crimson_penguin, yes and I hope to find some time during 1.8 to test with that (and I read that these changes are also in 1.3)
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20091027 20:42:06< crimson_penguin> mordante: oh, did I tell you... I left Wesnoth open for a while as well, and then cmd+tab'd back to it, and the whole screen had that blue overlay
20091027 20:42:55< mordante> I heard of looking at the world with pink glasses ;-)
20091027 20:45:56-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091027 20:47:20< Sapient> esr: at the GSoC mentor summit, one of the first sessions was airing of greivances against the available forge/tracking systems
20091027 20:48:01< Sapient> code.google.com was spoken highly of, however, due to recent improvements
20091027 20:48:57< esr> Sapient: I believe it.  One way or another I'm going to fix that problem, either leasding or collaborating with an existing project. But, realistically, not for 12 to 18 months.
20091027 20:49:18< esr> As for GoogleCode, I looked at it...
20091027 20:50:06< esr> ...was turnerd off by the fact that yiou can't have static webspace. Great place to use as a file repo, though.  GPSD does that.
20091027 20:50:57< crimson_penguin> mordante: it's actually 100% reproducible too; every time I hide the game and go back to it, the whole screen is blue
20091027 20:52:35< mordante> crimson_penguin, I'm also in #sdl ;-)
20091027 20:52:53< crimson_penguin> haha, ok
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20091027 20:55:45< YogiHH> hello
20091027 20:55:54< mordante> hi YogiHH 
20091027 20:56:30< esr> Sapient: Downsuide is, I can solve the forge problem, or I can do a lot of work on Wesnoth...but probably not both.
20091027 21:00:12< Sapient> naturally
20091027 21:01:25< YogiHH> Sapient: hi pal :)
20091027 21:01:35< Sapient> YogiHH: hey there
20091027 21:06:15 * shadowmaster finally finished playing UtBS for the first time in years.
20091027 21:06:16< CIA-58> shadowmaster * r39498 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (2 files): 
20091027 21:06:16< CIA-58> Use the correct images (Galleon rather than Transport Galleon) for the
20091027 21:06:16< CIA-58> galleons in UtBS scenarios 10 and 11.
20091027 21:06:45< CIA-58> shadowmaster * r39499 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Apply team-color on the trapped merman.
20091027 21:06:59< CIA-58> shadowmaster * r39500 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/maps/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.map: 
20091027 21:06:59< CIA-58> Remove one of those suspicious-looking impassable mountain hexes in
20091027 21:06:59< CIA-58> UtBS scenario 11's map to reduce the chances of the trapped merman being
20091027 21:06:59< CIA-58> spawned on it.
20091027 21:07:02< mordante> Ivanovic, the Pandora does it support OGL or not?
20091027 21:08:09< shadowmaster> fendrin: ^^ I think I fixed all the problems I stumbled upon.
20091027 21:09:00< shadowmaster> except Kaleh' missing a XP bar after the last advancement, which is because he has no advancements or advances_to items then. hm.
20091027 21:10:12 * shadowmaster hides again.
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20091027 21:34:14< mordante> crimson_penguin, I just tested with SDL 1.2.14 and works oke for me
20091027 21:34:45< mordante> so I think sticking with 1.2.13 might be the solution for you
20091027 21:34:54< crimson_penguin> Linux?
20091027 21:35:16< mordante> of course things should get fixed, but I'm not sure whether doing it during a feature freeze is the right time
20091027 21:35:28< mordante> yes Debian/Lenny
20091027 21:38:55< mordante> crimson_penguin, also I think asking this iPhone dev for his code might help
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20091027 21:48:26< crimson_penguin> mordante: yeah, probably
20091027 21:48:33< crimson_penguin> although I wonder if he did it in C++ or Obj-C
20091027 21:51:31< mordante> no idea but I assume he didn't rewrite Wesnoth in Obj-C
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20091027 21:55:54< crimson_penguin> well no, but the drawing part... and it could be Obj-C++
20091027 21:56:31< Ivanovic> mordante: yes, the pandora has opengl es 2.0
20091027 21:56:41< mordante> Ivanovic, ok thanks
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20091027 22:09:37< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: you were wrong about that thread... His art dramatically improved
20091027 22:10:26< Aethaeryn> scale too
20091027 22:11:25< zookeeper> you mean the crab he got from the internets?
20091027 22:11:45-!- BroodKiller [n=Jakobs@89.72.117.162] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091027 22:11:59< Aethaeryn> isn't that kinda illegal since it probably isn't (1) public domain that can be relicensed as GPL or (2) GPL and the forum requires GPL?
20091027 22:12:15< Aethaeryn> people forget that most pics on teh interwebz are under copyright.
20091027 22:13:44< zookeeper> yeah, probably?
20091027 22:15:04< zookeeper> probably he should be given a gentle warning that even if it's essentially a joke thread (for everyone but him, anyway), he should still not pass off random pics as his own
20091027 22:15:21< Zarel> [16:12]  <Aethaeryn> people forget that most pics on teh interwebz are under copyright.
20091027 22:15:25< zookeeper> but i don't have time to start doing that now
20091027 22:15:34< Zarel> I blame the horrible copyright system for that.
20091027 22:16:18< Aethaeryn> Zarel: The speed limit on the Baltimore Beltway is 55 MPH. Everyone goes at least 10-15 MPH over the speed limit except when they can't (in heavy traffic). It is dangerous *to* go the speed limit.
20091027 22:16:35< Zarel> That's true of many different highway systems.
20091027 22:16:36< Aethaeryn> If I were to get a speeding ticket for keeping up with traffic I wouldn't be able to blame the horrible speed limit system. :P
20091027 22:16:56< Zarel> Thankfully, in Minnesota most highways are 65 MPH
20091027 22:17:13< Aethaeryn> And I bet you they all go 65 MPH in the left lane.
20091027 22:17:39< Zarel> The other thing about copyright is that if you go over the speed limit, you get a fine.
20091027 22:17:45< BroodKiller> hi there, guys. It's been awhile, but I'm glad to see Wesnoth still stands strong :)
20091027 22:18:00< Zarel> If you just take a picture from the Internet, pretty much nothing happens. At absolute worse, you have to remove it.
20091027 22:18:46< Aethaeryn> I was using the analogy because speeding is something most people do and don't see as wrong, although it's technically illegal. Even 5 MPH over, which is generally let alone, is *technically* above the speed *limit*
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20091027 22:19:24< zookeeper> BroodKiller? cool, it's been a while
20091027 22:19:28< Aethaeryn> Whereas, taking pictures from elsewhere on teh Intertubez and passing it off as theirs is something most people do and don't see as wrong, although it's technically illegal.
20091027 22:19:34-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091027 22:19:37< Aethaeryn> Only Wikipedia really cares about copyright status :P
20091027 22:19:46< BroodKiller> zookeeper: I picked up again that animation editor idea from some time ago, and could use a hand with the code
20091027 22:20:56< BroodKiller> basically, I would be very grateful if someone could look into one particular part of my wxWidgets code and tell me where the error lies :-/
20091027 22:20:56< mordante> crimson_penguin, it would be nice if you can get the pixel format on your system for 1.2.13 and 1.2.14
20091027 22:21:12< crimson_penguin> how?
20091027 22:21:22< boucman> hey all
20091027 22:21:32< BroodKiller> boucman: howdie :)
20091027 22:21:46< BroodKiller> I have a small problem with the wxWidgtts timers that I use for frame transparency
20091027 22:22:24< Zarel> Aethaeryn: Hereabouts, the police make big motions about how "even 1 mph over is illegal"
20091027 22:22:35< BroodKiller> here's the link to the Codeblocks project: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7e6d8302a78fbf0736df4e8dca141969e04e75f6e8ebb871
20091027 22:22:45< BroodKiller> should compile on Win32, Linux, whatever
20091027 22:23:15< Aethaeryn> Zarel: Here in Maryland, I think that would be unenforceable unless speed limits everywhere were raised by 5 MPH and highways by 10 MPH... because *everyone* goes 5 over.
20091027 22:23:29< Aethaeryn> As much as they'd like, they can't pull over the entire state.
20091027 22:24:16< BroodKiller> basically, when I am emulating game speeds higher than 1x, the timer kills the program
20091027 22:26:01< Zarel> Aethaeryn: Well, like I said, they make motions.
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20091027 22:26:17< Zarel> As in, they say they will. It's obviously unenforceable since it's so trivially easy to contest.
20091027 22:26:20< Aethaeryn> Maybe, just *maybe* they'd give a warning
20091027 22:26:23< BroodKiller> but I presume there are not many people around familiar with wxWidgets, no? :-/
20091027 22:26:32< Aethaeryn> But I'd severely doubt a ticket for under 5 MPH over
20091027 22:26:38< Zarel> "How is he sure his radar or whatever is accurate to the nearest 1 mph?"
20091027 22:26:38< Zarel> etc
20091027 22:26:58< Zarel> 5mph over, they ticket, I think.
20091027 22:27:18< Zarel> Tons of cops pick someone going at the same speed as everyone else, and ticket them.
20091027 22:27:23< Aethaeryn> Thus < 5 mph. They set the enforcement line at 5 mph over, and so everyone speeds that point.
20091027 22:27:27< Aethaeryn> Up to the limit.
20091027 22:27:30< Zarel> Heck, some pick the _slowest_ car and ticket them, since they're the easiest to catch.
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20091027 22:28:06< Aethaeryn> If it says 25 MPH, but you won't get a ticket until over 30, then it's a de facto 30 MPH speed limit and a de jure 25 MPH speed limit.
20091027 22:28:13< Aethaeryn> But damn, we're hijacking the channel.
20091027 22:28:19< Aethaeryn> It was just a little analogy for copyrights... :S
20091027 22:28:21-!- Bellerophon_true [n=chatzill@BSN-143-99-51.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091027 22:28:40< Aethaeryn> Speed limits = not enforced too often. Copyrights = only enforced by Disney and Microsoft ;)
20091027 22:29:12< Zarel> We hijack channels all the time. :P
20091027 22:29:14< BroodKiller> boucman: you still fancy helping me out with the design of that tool?
20091027 22:29:35< Zarel> We should probably appoint #wesnoth as our hijack channel.
20091027 22:29:39 * boucman reads the log quickly
20091027 22:29:41< Zarel> It's so quiet these days, anyway.
20091027 22:29:56< Aethaeryn> Everyone's too busy fixing bugs.
20091027 22:29:56< BroodKiller> boucman: I know it's been awhile ;)
20091027 22:30:04< Aethaeryn> It was 96 the other day and it's now 87 :o
20091027 22:30:21< BroodKiller> boucman: I lost the log myself, sadly
20091027 22:30:33< Zarel> I mean #wesnoth, presumably the user channel. #wesnoth-dev is the developers' channel.
20091027 22:30:53< Aethaeryn> #wesnoth is the no-one-speaks-there channel
20091027 22:31:00< boucman> BroodKiller: ok, the anim tool to simulate anims to help artists,
20091027 22:31:04< boucman> yes I remember :)
20091027 22:31:08< boucman> how is it going ?
20091027 22:31:12< Aethaeryn> Occassionally a newbie with a technical problem, or a newbie with a chatter problem, or just a plain troll.
20091027 22:33:21< mordante> crimson_penguin, I think the easiest is with gdb set a breakpoint at image::set_pixel_format and print *format
20091027 22:36:01< mordante> crimson_penguin, I'm off now but just leave a message here
20091027 22:37:04-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
20091027 22:38:44< BroodKiller> boucman: still an alpha, but at v0.2 now ;) http://yfrog.com/0ianimasg
20091027 22:40:18< boucman> BroodKiller: impressive, does it compile under macosX ?
20091027 22:40:28< boucman> (i'm asking because most artists are under macosx
20091027 22:41:21< BroodKiller> the library is wxWidgets, and the IDE is codeblocks, both of which are perfectly portable
20091027 22:41:55< Zarel> ...I'm not sure if the IDE should matter.
20091027 22:41:55< BroodKiller> I got it to compile and work on Ubuntu, and someone from here also managed to do this on Fedora IIRC
20091027 22:41:56< boucman> BroodKiller: if it's in an (early) working state, i would advice to find someone to compile on macosx so you can have testers
20091027 22:42:08< boucman> any non-unix compiles ?
20091027 22:42:22< BroodKiller> I don't have  access to a mac machine myself
20091027 22:42:30< BroodKiller> win32, my dev platform
20091027 22:42:43< BroodKiller> but I have Ubuntu on a dual boot, so I can switch with ease
20091027 22:43:38< boucman> BroodKiller: ok
20091027 22:43:45< boucman> Ivanovic: ping
20091027 22:44:15< BroodKiller> Zarel: the IDE should not matter for testing, but still it's easier if you have a known and clean way of how to do this instead of struggling
20091027 22:44:47< Aethaeryn> boucman: will the add-on server be reset with 1.8 beta?
20091027 22:45:21< boucman> Aethaeryn: i don't know, Ivanovic would be the one to take the decision, I guess
20091027 22:45:35< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: ^
20091027 22:45:46< boucman> Aethaeryn: the add-on server for 1.8 won't be the one for 1.6, that's for sure
20091027 22:46:04< Aethaeryn> yes.
20091027 22:46:34< Aethaeryn> My issue really is when to publish my mappack for 1.8, and whether to do a last 1.6 release or spend that time porting the new map to 1.7 for the 1.8 release.
20091027 22:47:45< Aethaeryn> In other words, if 1.8 is within the next 2 1/2 weeks, I might as well just port my maps and get ready to publish it.
20091027 22:54:16< Sapient> Aethaeryn: I doubt that 1.8 will be ready that soon
20091027 22:55:58< boucman> Sapient: it could be...
20091027 22:56:05< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=391266#p391266 implies 1.5 weeks!
20091027 22:57:10< BroodKiller> boucman: would you mind sending me the log of our discussions? I don't have it, but remember there were some fundamental things discussed down there
20091027 22:57:51< boucman> BroodKiller: i don't have it, if you remember the day, irclog.wesnoth.org might still have it...
20091027 22:57:58< crimson_penguin> mordante: pixel formats: http://www.pasteit4me.com/57008
20091027 22:58:08< boucman> BroodKiller: you're probably further than what we were thinking at that time, though...
20091027 23:00:00< Sapient> wesbot: bugs
20091027 23:00:01< wesbot> Sapient: 87 bugs found, which one do you want?
20091027 23:00:36< Sapient> I doubt we will release a "stable" version soon due to bug count
20091027 23:00:45< Aethaeryn> I thought < 90 was the goal?
20091027 23:01:37< BroodKiller> boucman: I'm not that much further, since most of the code dates back to somewhere near that time, really. I had to drop it to get my career life sorted out, and I just returned to it
20091027 23:02:05< BroodKiller> but I did advance a bit
20091027 23:02:39< BroodKiller> bleh, the archive is all gzs..
20091027 23:02:53< boucman> ok, let's see
20091027 23:02:55< BroodKiller> and I remember we did it in priv, not sure if it is logged too?
20091027 23:03:04< boucman> what is the animation dropdown for ?
20091027 23:03:24< Sapient> Aethaeryn: you have commit access right?
20091027 23:03:31< BroodKiller> you select a particular animation available for the currently loaded unit 
20091027 23:03:55< BroodKiller> it selects the one to play
20091027 23:04:31< boucman> does it handle [if] correctly ?
20091027 23:05:06< Sapient> can anyone make a small commit for me?
20091027 23:05:17< Espreon> Sure.
20091027 23:05:39< Sapient> Espreon: please add the two LOOKUP_* macros to core 
20091027 23:05:41< Sapient> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=390098#p390098
20091027 23:05:58< Aethaeryn> Sapient: Nope. The only official role I have is wiki moderator. I don't even get a fancy color for that, just a forum title.
20091027 23:06:06< Sapient> that is LOOKUP_INDEX and LOOKUP_VALUE
20091027 23:06:42< Aethaeryn> According to the public logs of this chan on the day 1.4 was released (2 March 2008) the bug count was as low as 44
20091027 23:06:52< Sapient> this needs to be committed before the release candidate is tagged, please
20091027 23:07:44< boucman> Sapient: looking...
20091027 23:08:34< boucman> Sapient: I know very little about wml could you quickly walk mme on what I have to do ?
20091027 23:09:00< Sapient> I think Espreon was offerring to do it
20091027 23:09:06< Espreon> Done.
20091027 23:09:13< CIA-58> espreon * r39501 /trunk/data/core/macros/utils.cfg: Added LOOKUP_INDEX and LOOKUP_VALUE to core.
20091027 23:09:23< Sapient> thanks, Espreon
20091027 23:09:28< boucman> ok
20091027 23:09:30< Espreon> You are welcome.
20091027 23:11:51< BroodKiller> boucman: nope, it's the next step. right now it reads the whole block regardless of subblocks
20091027 23:11:59< BroodKiller> added to the todo list
20091027 23:12:27< boucman> BroodKiller: at this point it's already very usefull, it allows artists to preview their animations easily...
20091027 23:12:27< BroodKiller> actually, I will probably rewrite it all, that's why I need a fresh look on things :)
20091027 23:13:06< BroodKiller> boucman: at speed 1x the transparency works fine, so it's good too
20091027 23:13:20< boucman> iirc my idea was that WML compatibility wasn't that important, generating a simple output with the framses would be usefull, but the most important was to have it as a tool for anim makers
20091027 23:14:05< boucman> so one of the requirement was to have it reread all images before redraw to have real time update, or (if it's too cpu intensive) to have a "reload all images" button
20091027 23:14:32< boucman> another thig was to have the ability to test team colors on the unit
20091027 23:14:48< BroodKiller> ah! righto!
20091027 23:15:13< Sapient> Espreon: there should probably be a note in the changelog, though
20091027 23:15:29< BroodKiller> I also remember you were explaining to me something about different animation frames/segments
20091027 23:15:49< BroodKiller> there was a special word for it, I don't remember it though
20091027 23:15:56< Espreon> Sapient: OK.
20091027 23:18:08< BroodKiller> boucman: do you think even an alpha is worth an initial release?  "Release early, release often"?
20091027 23:18:48< boucman> BroodKiller: is it usefull at this point
20091027 23:19:10< boucman> the answer is "yes" so I say you miss one thing for a release, and that's a macos binary :)
20091027 23:19:39< BroodKiller> hmm...any mac devs out here?
20091027 23:20:10< BroodKiller> the project is pretty much "open and press compile", so not much hassle
20091027 23:20:29< BroodKiller> I only use the native wxWidgets libs
20091027 23:20:43< BroodKiller> I could try to set up a virtual machine, at the very end
20091027 23:21:16< boucman> iirc crimson_penguin is our mac packager, but i'm not 100% sure
20091027 23:21:41< Espreon> Sapient: "Added two array element lookup macros, LOOKUP_INDEX and LOOKUP_VALUE." — Is that sufficient?
20091027 23:21:51< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: ping
20091027 23:21:58< Sapient> Espreon: yes, that sounds fine
20091027 23:22:03< Espreon> OK.
20091027 23:22:16 * crimson_penguin runs away in fright
20091027 23:22:40< CIA-58> espreon * r39502 /trunk/changelog: Updated the changelog.
20091027 23:22:42< crimson_penguin> don't kill my bees!
20091027 23:23:38< boucman> crimson_penguin: do you use codeblocks ?
20091027 23:23:42< crimson_penguin> no
20091027 23:23:48< boucman> :(
20091027 23:23:49< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: do you have wxWidgets by a chance?
20091027 23:24:01< crimson_penguin> I don't know what that is
20091027 23:24:25< BroodKiller> it's a cross-platform GUI library
20091027 23:24:43< BroodKiller> basically emulates native OS components on each system
20091027 23:25:28< crimson_penguin> sounds like something that would really annoy me
20091027 23:25:28< BroodKiller> so you have the same code on win32, linux, mac, compile it and the application looks native
20091027 23:25:40< BroodKiller> nah, it's really nice
20091027 23:25:41-!- Mythological [i=Mytholog@77.28.118.169] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091027 23:25:46< BroodKiller> "write once, compile anywhere"
20091027 23:26:03< CIA-58> espreon * r39503 /branches/resources/image-localization/es/ (. wesnoth.xcf): Added the Spanish map source file.
20091027 23:26:30< crimson_penguin> BroodKiller: main reason I dislike Firefox: it's not native enough
20091027 23:26:50< crimson_penguin> it's the little things that do it for me
20091027 23:26:59< crimson_penguin> for instance, scrolling in FF is not smooth
20091027 23:27:31< boucman> crimson_penguin: if you don't feel like compiling the project for use, that's fine, we'll look for another way
20091027 23:27:33< BroodKiller> well, firefoxhttp://www.wxwidgets.org/about/screensh.htm
20091027 23:27:38< crimson_penguin> emulation just isn't good enough for thing so fundamental
20091027 23:27:42< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: Is there a way to somehow run macos virtualized, without having a mac?
20091027 23:27:43< BroodKiller> *forget the ffox bit
20091027 23:27:58< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: I think so
20091027 23:28:04< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: does this look native enough?
20091027 23:29:32< crimson_penguin> BroodKiller: at first glance at least, it LOOKS native enough; but my point is, does it function exactly the same?
20091027 23:29:44< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: And I think that it's unlikely. Though I asked you in case you know of one..
20091027 23:29:48< crimson_penguin> can I press ctrl+cmd+d with my mouse over a word, to get the dictionary definition?
20091027 23:30:05< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: well I know it's possible with VMWare on a Mac :P
20091027 23:30:13< crimson_penguin> I think it's possible, but not easy
20091027 23:30:38< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: well, it depends on how the program is written, does it not? I don't get your point, I think...
20091027 23:31:04< BroodKiller> from what I know wxW uses the OS's native components
20091027 23:31:17< crimson_penguin> oh, does it? you said it emulates :P
20091027 23:31:27< crimson_penguin> if it actually uses the native stuff it's probably pretty good
20091027 23:31:36< crimson_penguin> anyway, I'm pretty confused about what the question is here
20091027 23:31:43< BroodKiller> ah, you're right, I did say it. Sorry, I used the wrong word then
20091027 23:31:56< boucman> crimson_penguin: let me sum it up
20091027 23:32:19< boucman> BroodKiller developed an interesting software for wesnoth to easily test animations while drawing them
20091027 23:32:42< boucman> it uses wxWidget and codeblock to be cross-platform
20091027 23:32:53< boucman> it already compiles on windows and linux
20091027 23:33:24< boucman> we would like to post it on the forum to have feedback, but since most artists use macosx it makes little sense to release without a macosx binary
20091027 23:33:45< BroodKiller> so, I send you the code, and you install Codeblocks and wxwidgets on your system, and try to compile it for me :)
20091027 23:33:50< boucman> so we are investigating how to do that... since you're the macosx packager, you're our first lead :)
20091027 23:34:11< BroodKiller> if you would be so kind, of course, and don't mind the hassle associated with the process
20091027 23:35:24< BroodKiller> Codeblocks is simple "download and install". wxW would need to be compiled on its own though
20091027 23:35:53< crimson_penguin> wxW uses Carbon :(
20091027 23:35:54< BroodKiller> I do it on my Win32 machine too
20091027 23:36:12< crimson_penguin> (which is "native", but old, and so that dictionary thing, among other things, would not be supported)
20091027 23:36:48< BroodKiller> what is the newer toolkit?
20091027 23:37:06< crimson_penguin> Cocoa, but it's not C++, it's Objective-C
20091027 23:37:09< BroodKiller> maybe the 'bleeding edge' supports it
20091027 23:37:22< crimson_penguin> yup
20091027 23:37:27< crimson_penguin> it does
20091027 23:37:40< crimson_penguin> I should use CodeBlocks on Windows for Frogatto it looks like
20091027 23:37:47< crimson_penguin> Dev-C++ seems very crusty
20091027 23:40:22< boucman> BroodKiller: other feature we had mentionned : export as animated gif to show on forum
20091027 23:40:44< crimson_penguin> is CodeBlocks very maintained? the releases are about a year and a half old
20091027 23:41:17< BroodKiller> yup, but it's 100% functional, it was a great update
20091027 23:41:36< BroodKiller> wesnoth has a codeblocks project too ;)
20091027 23:41:39< crimson_penguin> better than Dev-C++, where it's like 2005 or something :P
20091027 23:41:54< BroodKiller> Dev-C++ is a thing of the past, really
20091027 23:42:00< BroodKiller> I mean, I tried both things
20091027 23:42:10< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: For some time there were no codeblocks releases at all and people uses only svn :P
20091027 23:42:24< BroodKiller> it took me 6 days to get wesnoth to compile with Dev-C++, and 1 day in cd :D
20091027 23:42:27< BroodKiller> *CB
20091027 23:43:10< BroodKiller> boucman: ok, added that to the list
20091027 23:43:54< loonycyborg> s/uses/used
20091027 23:45:29< crimson_penguin> haha, "Since so few people know so little about this:" - don't think that's quite what they meant to say
20091027 23:46:08< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: It will take a week or two until I can make a functional alpha, so it's not a very pressing matter, but could I count on you in this regard, then?
20091027 23:46:28< BroodKiller> especially if you say that I'd need wxW3.0 to get Cocoa suppotr
20091027 23:46:28< crimson_penguin> BroodKiller: oh ok... well I can try at least
20091027 23:46:45< BroodKiller> I am using wxW 2.8.9 right now
20091027 23:47:01< crimson_penguin> meh, not worth it
20091027 23:47:30< crimson_penguin> Carbon isn't as good, but for this it probably doesn't matter, and it's unstable now, so I'd just rather not be learning a pile of new things AND be using an unstable version of one of them
20091027 23:47:49< BroodKiller> heh, true, true ;)
20091027 23:47:57< BroodKiller> crimson_penguin: so I'll bug you on the forums once I get the thing ready, ok?
20091027 23:48:14< crimson_penguin> BroodKiller: better here; I only pay attention to the releases forum
20091027 23:48:35< BroodKiller> ok
20091027 23:48:54< BroodKiller> boucman: which forum do you suggets would be best for this kind of stuff?
20091027 23:50:44< boucman> BroodKiller: art workshop if you want to discuss features/present your tool coder's corner if it's about compiling/coding
20091027 23:51:25< BroodKiller> ok
20091027 23:55:51< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: considering that there was no released labeld "beta" yet it is unlikely that 1.8 *final* will be out withhin 2.5 weeks
20091027 23:56:58< Ivanovic> and so far i am unsure if i will/should restart the addon server before 1.8
20091027 23:57:32< Ivanovic> time to head off to bed, n8
20091027 23:57:36< BroodKiller> ok, thank you guys, I'll show up again with some 'real stuff' next time. See ya later
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 28 00:00:00 2009