--- Log opened Sat Oct 31 00:00:13 2009
--- Day changed Sat Oct 31 2009
20091031 00:00:13< YogiHH> alink: oh, i didn't know it is controlled by probabilities. So a lonely single hex never gets a cactus, then?
20091031 00:00:41< alink> no, I think that some lonely hex can have it
20091031 00:01:00< alink> yeahn only depend of X,Y
20091031 00:02:12< alink> but you can't chosse which one will have cactus, indeed
20091031 00:02:28< alink> unless you made a new terrain rule
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20091031 00:03:07< alink> IIRC there is FR about this, but that's a tricky area
20091031 00:06:07< alink> mmh an possibility would be to split the 2 terrains (desert and cactus) and, in editor, allow to define a randomly mixed brush
20091031 00:07:22< alink> for example using the red and blue selection and a probability slider. But use 3 terrains seems more complicated
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20091031 00:10:36< YogiHH> alink: is there any help on map editor masks?
20091031 00:11:01< alink> no idea, better ask ilor
20091031 00:12:57< alink> regarding my random brush idea, alternatively a random fill tool may work too (fill x% of tiles)
20091031 00:14:02< alink> or a "remove x% of selection", and then later fill the remaining
20091031 00:14:38< alink> or a "remove 10% of selection" and just hit it several times
20091031 00:15:14< YogiHH> To be honest, i have no idea what you are talking about. I am using the map editor for the first time.
20091031 00:16:00< alink> np, I am just thowing random ideas :)
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20091031 00:20:20< alink> yeah editor mask are also not clear to me 
20091031 00:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 72 bugs, 243 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091031 00:55:07< fendrin> YogiHH: what do you want to know about the editor masks?
20091031 00:57:13< YogiHH> fendrin: masks is just something i don't know how to use. I am looking for a way to have a village stand on stone-road terrain instead of green grassland. I thought there might be a way to have some kind of background terrain?
20091031 00:58:04< YogiHH> fendrin: and i am trying to do that with standard editor features, not using any custom terrain
20091031 00:58:54< YogiHH> fendrin: but from what i have seen on the forum, masks seem to completely change a hex into another terrain
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20091031 01:02:33< alink> YogiHH: I don't think that mask are used for that. You probably need custom terrain or some overlay item trick
20091031 01:03:07< alink> note that there is some "village on road" tile (with red roof)
20091031 01:03:36< YogiHH> ah, cool
20091031 01:15:21< fendrin> YogiHH: You can exchange some base terrains by placing an overlay terrain with pressed shift key. It's possible to overlay water with forest by this feature for example.
20091031 01:15:50< fendrin> YogiHH: This works for some of the villages, but not for all types.
20091031 01:16:06< YogiHH> fendrin: and the properties are those of the overlayed terrain?
20091031 01:16:43< fendrin> YogiHH: I am not sure. I believe they are mixed.
20091031 01:17:07< fendrin> The default would be better defense but worst movement.
20091031 01:17:20< YogiHH> fendrin: ok, i will check that out, thanks
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20091031 01:26:09< alink> ooh i was not aware of this shift/overlay trick. Seems not to work for this village stuff though
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20091031 02:28:07< shadowmaster> http://shadowm.rewound.net/wesnoth-fortune.php?skip_dorset=1 :P
20091031 02:30:42< shadowmaster> useless coding is useful for alleviating tensions after all.
20091031 02:35:30< stikonas> Chusslove: can you commit those 4 files? http://stikonas.homelinux.org/files/
20091031 02:35:43< stikonas> including wesnoth--overlay.png
20091031 02:35:57< stikonas> all 4 files are wesnoth-optipng'ized
20091031 02:48:46< stikonas> Chusslove: since I have to go to bed, I've copied images from my laptop to server. A new link is: http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/as932/files/
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20091031 10:44:52< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39525 /trunk/ (17 files in 3 dirs): New base frame for Drake Flare. Remove outdated images.
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20091031 10:50:10< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39526 /trunk/ (17 files in 3 dirs): New base frame for Drake Flameheart. Remove outdated images.
20091031 10:50:11< CIA-58> zookeeper * r39527 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/01.The_Outpost.cfg: Applied beetlenaut's balancing changes for making the scenario easier on hard.
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20091031 10:54:26< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39528 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): New alternate portrait for Grand Knight by LordBob. Update changelogs, portrait credits.
20091031 10:57:07< Ivanovic> moin
20091031 10:57:34< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39529 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): New portrait for Lancer by LordBob. Update changelogs, portrait credits.
20091031 10:58:46< thespaceinvader> morning Ivanovic 
20091031 10:58:59< Ivanovic> hi thespaceinvader
20091031 10:59:09< Ivanovic> how are things?
20091031 10:59:16< thespaceinvader> apologies for long absence
20091031 10:59:21< thespaceinvader> many commits this morning
20091031 10:59:33< Ivanovic> ain't no problem, this happens
20091031 10:59:40< thespaceinvader> been hugely busy with placement and a computer which refused to work whilst i was there
20091031 10:59:46< thespaceinvader> hence having done nothing useful for months
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20091031 11:02:14< Ivanovic> like i said, stuff like this happen
20091031 11:02:16< Ivanovic> s
20091031 11:02:36< thespaceinvader> yeah
20091031 11:02:39< thespaceinvader> how's things here?
20091031 11:02:51< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39530 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Two new alternate portraits for Orc Grunt by LordBob. Update changelogs, portrait credits.
20091031 11:03:13< thespaceinvader> 1.8 must be creeping up behind me, ready to hit me over the head with work i haven't done >.<
20091031 11:03:16< Ivanovic> things are okay here
20091031 11:03:24< esr> thespaceinvader: There are some serious problems with the new dragon flight animations.
20091031 11:03:28< Ivanovic> hehe, no, not really
20091031 11:03:37< thespaceinvader> esr what are they?
20091031 11:03:38< Ivanovic> we are lagging behind all schedules
20091031 11:03:58< thespaceinvader> if i can fix them with WML, i'll try, but if they're engine fixes, you need boucman 
20091031 11:04:00< Ivanovic> still too many bugs and not enough polishing for calling things 1.8
20091031 11:04:06< thespaceinvader> ok Ivanovic 
20091031 11:04:08< esr> thespaceinvader: Wait, I'm running wmlscope.
20091031 11:04:12< thespaceinvader> ok
20091031 11:04:20< boucman> thespaceinvader: someone summoned me ?
20091031 11:04:45< Ivanovic> :)
20091031 11:04:46< thespaceinvader> more drake anim stuff - esr's checking out what
20091031 11:05:07< thespaceinvader> boucman: but whilst you're here, i never did ask whether you managed to fix that flyin drake defend weirdness
20091031 11:05:29< boucman> esr: drake or dragon ?
20091031 11:05:43< boucman> thespaceinvader: I don't have any "weirdness" left on my agenda...
20091031 11:05:50< boucman> so either I did or I forgot
20091031 11:05:53< thespaceinvader> boucman: ok
20091031 11:05:55< boucman> (but I think I did :) )
20091031 11:05:59< thespaceinvader> thanks
20091031 11:06:06< thespaceinvader> i think you did too, but i wanted to make sure
20091031 11:06:13< thespaceinvader> i'll grab 1.7.7 and see
20091031 11:06:19< thespaceinvader> i still haven't even done that yet >.<
20091031 11:06:33< esr> Drake.  THe frames referenced in animation-utils don't match the ones that actually exist. I'll pastebin a wmlcope report in a moment.
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20091031 11:07:56< boucman> ok, not a bug for me, then :)
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20091031 11:08:15< thespaceinvader> o_O ok esr, i've not noticed any visual bugs, however - i think everything is working as it should
20091031 11:08:25< thespaceinvader> unless i've misnamed somethign in animation utils
20091031 11:08:32< esr> http://pastebin.com/mf933396
20091031 11:09:38< thespaceinvader> ah yeah
20091031 11:09:43< esr> There are a bunch of places where the macro wants a n or ne varuiant and only the s or se one exists.
20091031 11:09:49< thespaceinvader> those are there in preparations for when we do the north frames
20091031 11:10:03< thespaceinvader> if you'd prefer that i wait and put them in only when they're needed, i'm happoy with that
20091031 11:11:19< esr> Please try to avoid delibertately creating broken references in the future, they can bury indications of real bugs in spurious messages.
20091031 11:12:35< thespaceinvader> ah OK
20091031 11:12:44< thespaceinvader> i'll take them out, unless you already have
20091031 11:13:12< esr> I haven't.  How soon are you expecting the new frames to be done?
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20091031 11:13:47< thespaceinvader> esr: it's a long term project, so no time remotely soon
20091031 11:14:04< thespaceinvader> i put them up as placeholders, they're not being used at present, and reconstructing them is easy
20091031 11:14:08< thespaceinvader> so i'll take them out
20091031 11:14:29< esr> Oh, then please do remove them.  I don't like to ship a release that isn't wmlscope clean.
20091031 11:17:03< thespaceinvader> esr: done that
20091031 11:17:05< thespaceinvader> committing now
20091031 11:17:10< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39531 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/macros/animation-utils.cfg): Remove some unused drake macros from animation_utils
20091031 11:17:15< thespaceinvader> et voila
20091031 11:18:14< esr> thespaceinvader: Checking...
20091031 11:18:19< thespaceinvader> k
20091031 11:18:28< thespaceinvader> i think i got it all and didn't break anything
20091031 11:18:31< thespaceinvader> did check diffs
20091031 11:28:26< esr> Yup, clean report now. Thanks.
20091031 11:29:38< fendrin> esr: Can you make wmllint use multiple cpu/cores ?
20091031 11:30:06< esr> fendrin: Not very easily.  Why?
20091031 11:31:14< fendrin> The only thing I can come up is speed.
20091031 11:31:57< esr> I could try spawning multiple threads and hope that Python will allocate them to different cores, I suppose.
20091031 11:32:29< fendrin> Please try that.
20091031 11:35:13 * esr disposes of another bug
20091031 11:36:25< esr> Zoopeeer's fix for excess enemy hitpoints in Liberty worked.
20091031 11:36:40 * esr hunts for another bug to squash
20091031 11:36:46< loonycyborg> esr: I once tried creating multiple threads running infinite loops from interactive interpreter, and it still wasn't using cores effectively. Perhaps if you'll get the same issue you should try spawning multiple subprocesses instead.
20091031 11:38:08< esr> I'll hqaveto do a datyaflo analysis.  Unfortunately, it may well be that the logic is intrinsically serial :-(
20091031 11:39:49< esr> Ah, wait, I can parallelize the cross-reference generation. That should work.
20091031 11:40:54< thespaceinvader> esr: no worries, happy to help
20091031 11:41:45< esr> thespaceinvader: You got any time for doing art?  I have one fairly urgent need for DM.
20091031 11:42:06< thespaceinvader> not really, and what i do have is goign on finishing the drakes off
20091031 11:42:13< esr> Alas.
20091031 11:42:15< thespaceinvader> sorry
20091031 11:42:23< thespaceinvader> what is it that needs doing i mgith be able to suggest someone
20091031 11:43:20< esr> Lleolyn needs a prtrait.  Now using generic archmage, which is unfortunare because the Oracles use that, too.
20091031 11:44:20< thespaceinvader> mm
20091031 11:44:25< loonycyborg> If I use thread.start_new_thread to start two infinite loops one core is used at about 80% and the other at about 40% :/ Must be due to infamous GIL :P
20091031 11:44:48< thespaceinvader> not sure who i could suggest to be honest - most of our portrait artists have evaporated since the academic term started
20091031 11:44:50< freim> esr: you could try to ask here: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27516
20091031 11:44:51< esr> loonycyborg: Yeah, I was thinking the GIL would be an issue.
20091031 11:45:27< esr> freim: Thanks.
20091031 11:48:28< thespaceinvader> boucman: did a bug check having downloaded 1.7.7 - the bug i mentioned previously is indeed fixed
20091031 11:48:30< thespaceinvader> thanks
20091031 11:51:12 * esr has to learn Python threading now :-)
20091031 11:51:59< esr> (I'm going to try treading first, and if I get good speedup not go to the more complex subprocess partitioning.)
20091031 11:57:20< CIA-58> thespaceinvader * r39532 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Add recruitment animations to the Sky and Hurricane Drakes. Update changelogs.
20091031 11:58:39 * thespaceinvader closes his only open bug :D
20091031 12:00:25< thespaceinvader> wesbot topic
20091031 12:00:28-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 70 bugs, 243 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091031 12:01:37< Ivanovic> hmm, IIRC about a week ago we were still at about 100 bugs...
20091031 12:02:02< esr> Ivanovic: I went on a remape yesterday and dispoded of about 14.
20091031 12:02:14< Ivanovic> :)
20091031 12:02:25< esr> s/remape/rampage/
20091031 12:03:11< esr> Every once in a whileit's good to go through the list and check for bugs that are fixed or obsoleted.
20091031 12:04:27< esr> The list is still longer than I'd be happy with for 1.8, but at least getting it to a good state before 2010 now seems fossible.
20091031 12:04:42< esr> s/fossible/possible/
20091031 12:10:24< CIA-58> esr * r39533 /trunk/data/tools/ (wesnoth/wmltools.py wmlscope): Avoid a duplicative calculation to improve the cross-referencer's performance.
20091031 12:16:17< Ivanovic> esr: considering the amount of gui bugs that will eventually be fixed once mordante is done with the gui rewrite it is likely that it will be damn difficult to get the list of bugs significantly below 50
20091031 12:16:32< esr> Ivanovic: I know.
20091031 12:16:33< Ivanovic> since IIRC there are about 30 postponed gui bugs assigned to mordante
20091031 12:16:58< esr> Does he have any estimate for when that will actually get done?
20091031 12:17:35< Ivanovic> the complete rewrite will not be done before 1.8 (feature freeze!), though maybe for 1.10, who knows...
20091031 12:17:41< esr> (And, BTW, I found yesterday he had already fixed 2 bugs in the GUI backlog without realizing it.)
20091031 12:20:02< Ivanovic> :)
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20091031 13:55:45< Mythological> wesbot: seen euschn
20091031 13:55:45< wesbot> Mythological: Person, who 1d 2h ago used nick euschn, last spoke 18d 20h ago.  23h 43m ago as euschn_ they left with the message: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091016092926]"
20091031 13:56:04< Mythological> wesbot: seen Noyga
20091031 13:56:04< wesbot> Mythological: The person with the nick Noyga last spoke 40d 17h ago.  6d 4h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
20091031 13:56:26< Mythological> wesbot: thank you very much
20091031 13:56:26< wesbot> Mythological: You are welcome.
20091031 14:10:35-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091031 14:12:36< loonycyborg> esr: http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html <- that module isn't affected by GIL issue.
20091031 14:16:42< CIA-58> fendrin * r39534 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (maps/Kalian_map.cfg utils/map-utils.cfg): LoW: Splitted the map setup from scenario 7 in seperate files.
20091031 14:17:46< CIA-58> fendrin * r39535 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/characters.cfg: LoW: Changed Galtrid's team colour back to default.
20091031 14:18:58< CIA-58> fendrin * r39536 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 3: Load the map setup that can be shared with scenario7 from a seperate file.
20091031 14:21:09< CIA-58> fendrin * r39537 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: 
20091031 14:21:09< CIA-58> LoW: Fixed Galtrid only recruiting lvl1 units.
20091031 14:21:09< CIA-58> Removed obsolete code.
20091031 14:21:09< CIA-58> Include map setup file.
20091031 14:50:03< stikonas> Chusslove: hi, are you there?
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20091031 15:00:29< fendrin> the codebase includes an illegal recruit attribute in a allow_recruit tag
20091031 15:01:19< fendrin> My grep knowledge isn't enough to find it.
20091031 15:02:31< Ivanovic> fendrin: have you asked esr if wmllint can maybe find it somehow?
20091031 15:03:19< Ivanovic> anyway, i am off for some hours
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20091031 15:42:11< esr> fendrin: Illegal how?  Bad unit type?
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20091031 15:49:08< mordante> servus
20091031 15:54:43< mordante> esr, one GUI bug is reopened and I think you need to thanks alink for the other one ;-)
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20091031 15:55:01< esr> ?
20091031 15:55:12< mordante> but a lot of GUI bugs are ancient problems and in the past some of them were simply closed
20091031 15:55:49< mordante> esr, reading the backlog, title screen on 1280x1024 still looks bad and the traits in the sidebar is fixed by alink
20091031 15:56:00< mordante> or I guess he did it, since I didn't ;-)
20091031 15:56:04-!- Crab_ [i=crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091031 15:56:31< esr> I tested he 1288x1024 case - what's still wronng with it? 
20091031 15:57:58< Crab_> fendrin: hello, you were looking for me ?
20091031 15:58:23< mordante> esr, IMO the buttonpanel should move more to the lower right corner
20091031 15:59:21< esr> It looked fine to me.  I don't think we're rally in 'bug' territory here...
20091031 15:59:51< mordante> like I said there are a lot of issues we closed in the past regarding the gui and now keep open
20091031 16:19:10< CIA-58> esr * r39538 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/13_Dwarvish_Stand.cfg: Code simplification using MODIFY_UNIT.
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20091031 16:24:28< fendrin> hi Crab_
20091031 16:25:01< fendrin> Are you still on the bugs against low that are assigned to you?
20091031 16:25:47< Crab_> yes, but I'm quite busy lately. will fix them before next release, though.
20091031 16:26:09< mordante> Crab_, cool that you fix them this weekend ;-P
20091031 16:26:18< fendrin> Crab_: I remember you giving me a commandline that searches for text inside a tag. Can you repeat it?
20091031 16:28:50< esr> fendrin: Can you specify a wmllint test for what you want?
20091031 16:30:04< fendrin> esr: search for recruit= inside allow_recruit tags. recruit= should be type=
20091031 16:30:20< esr> Oh.  That's easy.
20091031 16:30:48< Crab_> fendrin: no, it searched for a text 'near' a tag. i.e. "   fgrep -Rn \[unit\] -a5 -b5 ./data/ | grep side  "   seaches for side 'within 5 lines of '[unit]' in wesnoth data dir
20091031 16:31:17< fendrin> Crab_: Thank you. That will be usefull. I am going to save it to a file.
20091031 16:33:05< Crab_> but, if *text* is a subset of *tag*, you need to be a bit more tricky
20091031 16:39:57< esr> fendrin: I have added a wmllint check, it's running now.
20091031 16:40:03< Crab_> fendrin: still, its quick&dirty way to find what's needed. i.e. something like '  fgrep -Rn allow_recruit\] -a20 -b20 ./data/ | grep recruit | grep -v allow_recruit | grep = | grep -v message  ' will find almost all uses of 'recruit=' near [disallow_recruit] and [allow_recruit] tags.
20091031 16:40:48< esr> Oh, yeah, I should check disallow_recruit too.
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20091031 16:42:36< fendrin> I wonder if recruit= wouldn't be the better name for the attribute. It's from the same type "comma seperated list of unit types".
20091031 16:43:36< esr> If we change rthat, I can easily invert the check.  Otr terach wmllint to do the conversion.
20091031 16:43:51< esr> s/ Otr terach/Or teach/
20091031 16:43:59< fendrin> How many hits did wmllint get?
20091031 16:44:23< esr> Still running, I revised the test to include the disallow.
20091031 16:44:52< esr> (And yes, I'll use the subprocess module to speed-tune wmllint.
20091031 16:44:55< esr> )
20091031 16:45:59< esr> Mainline is now more than twie as large as when I originally wrote it.
20091031 16:50:00< esr> That's odd.  No hits.
20091031 16:50:10< esr> Can I have miscoded it?
20091031 16:52:56< fendrin> I know about the issue from the emacs wml mode. It gives me code completion for the attribute "recruit' in the tag "allow_recruit". Maybe the wml mode for emacs does not what I expect.
20091031 16:58:42< esr> Aha.  Found a bug. Retrying...
20091031 16:59:55< esr> OK, now I'm finding them.
20091031 17:00:23< esr> 5 in aOI so far...
20091031 17:01:00< esr> One in Eastern Invasion...
20091031 17:05:22< esr> And that's it.  Fixing now.
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20091031 17:06:09< esr> Oh, there was one more in Nortern Rebirth.
20091031 17:06:52< fendrin> I guess that much hits speak for recruit= being rather intuitive in that tag.
20091031 17:07:34< CIA-58> esr * r39539 /trunk/data/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
20091031 17:07:34< CIA-58> Find, and fix, [allow_recruit] and [disallow_recruit] tags with
20091031 17:07:34< CIA-58> recruit= rather than type= key.
20091031 17:07:51< esr> Yes, but we can't fix that with feature freeze on.
20091031 17:08:27< esr> At least now it's correct and there's a wmllint check for it.  Good catch!
20091031 17:08:35< fendrin> Can't the engine just tell about ignored/unrecognized code?
20091031 17:09:07< esr> Hm...I don't know.
20091031 17:09:11< zookeeper> not really
20091031 17:09:15< esr> Yes, in fact, I do.
20091031 17:10:16< esr> The problem is that the tag parsing is scattered through the C++ in an ad-hoc way.  There's know way for one piece of code to know what *other* pieces of code are expecting.
20091031 17:10:33< esr> s/know way/no way/
20091031 17:11:56< esr> The fundantal problem is tha t WML isn't structured like a real compiler or interpreter.  And I think that is baked in too deep to change.
20091031 17:15:30< esr> OK, wmllint is reporting no errors.  I must go for a while.
20091031 17:15:32< fendrin> There are many completions that look suspicious when using the emacs wml mode. I guess some percent of the mainline campaign code just does nothing.
20091031 17:16:06< esr> fendrin: You would be doing good service if you compiled a list of bad ones.
20091031 17:16:24< esr> I could very, very easily make wmllint check for them.
20091031 17:16:45< fendrin> esr: I know. I will try to find some more of them.
20091031 17:16:52< esr> Good.
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20091031 17:20:08< CIA-58> fendrin * r39540 /trunk/data/tools/emacs_mode/wesnoth-wml-data.el: Updated the wesnoth emacs mode meta data file. It no longer completes recruit in allow_recruit tags.
20091031 17:20:09< Sirp> esr: well, WML is structured much like an XML DOM parser. However I agree that the way tags are interpreted haphazardly is an annoyance
20091031 17:21:38< Crab_> fendrin: well, if we do some kind of wmllint in C++, from *within* wesnoth (or, reusing wesnoth wml parser), we'll be able to check data after macro expansion, and we'll be able to check that the tag tree obeys certain rules... but, those rules (something like a 'wml schema', will need to be written from scratch) )
20091031 17:23:33< fendrin> Crab_: That schema could be used to generate the wml wiki as well.
20091031 17:24:09< Crab_> yes, that's true
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20091031 18:17:08< silene> hi
20091031 18:20:15< fendrin> hi silene
20091031 18:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 71 bugs, 243 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091031 19:25:38< mordante> I'm off bye
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20091031 19:35:04< AI0867> fendrin: you gave the gold_carrier a target value of 3, but I doubt that will affect the AI much. I think you'll have to add a zero to really influence the AI (HttT01 uses a value of 100 for konrad/delf on hard)
20091031 19:56:16-!- Zarel [n=Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20091031 20:04:42< chains> Does anyone have any advice for the Ubuntu/SDL sound problem?
20091031 20:05:06< chains> I've had the 100% CPU usage since Jaunty, but have just ignored it. :)
20091031 20:06:17< CIA-58> silene * r39541 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Completed map size data.
20091031 20:06:24< chains> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth/+bug/442535
20091031 20:06:58< CIA-58> silene * r39542 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Removed code related to dummy locales.
20091031 20:07:42< CIA-58> silene * r39543 /trunk/ (Makefile.am configure.ac): Removed dummy locales from autotools.
20091031 20:08:34< CIA-58> silene * r39544 /trunk/doc/man/wesnoth.6: Removed dummy locales from manpage.
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20091031 20:21:59< Ivanovic> chains: as you might have read in the report the problem is not wesnoth but something ubuntu screwed up regarding sdl-mixer and pulseaudio
20091031 20:26:07< chains> Yes I read :) 
20091031 20:26:38< chains> just wanted to make sure no one has come up with a work around before I go through the trouble of figuring out how to disable pulse audio. 
20091031 20:27:27< chains> PA is one of the stupidest thing's ubuntu has done to date. Why they would give up Stable, Reliable sound in exchange for "fancy bells and whistles" that 98% of the users will never use  is beyond me
20091031 20:28:01< chains> PA is a nice idea, and it's going to be a great system once it matures though. 
20091031 20:30:58 * Ivanovic knows a good workaround:
20091031 20:31:05< Ivanovic> use a different distro!
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20091031 20:31:07< Ivanovic> ^^
20091031 20:31:16< loonycyborg> Or uninstall pulseaudio :P
20091031 20:34:53< loonycyborg> For some reason I can't svn up wesnoth from my machine neither for read-only nor read-write checkouts :/
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20091031 20:38:18< CIA-58> ivanovic * r39545 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-lib/de.po): updated German translation
20091031 20:45:19< chains> heh 
20091031 20:45:22< chains> Redhat sucks. 
20091031 20:45:28< chains> Debian updates too slowly
20091031 20:46:03< chains> I am probably happier with Debian, but I end up compiling packages every few weeks to keep my system current
20091031 20:46:06< Zarel> That's what you get for running Debian stable.
20091031 20:46:17< Zarel> Run Debian unstable. It's more stable than, say, Ubuntu stable. ;)
20091031 20:46:24< Zarel> And it's far more current.
20091031 20:46:49< chains> it is more stable, but it's not more current
20091031 20:47:06< chains> I ran debian testing for a year or so before I finally got tired of waiting
20091031 20:47:30< chains> things have gotten better recently.... but they still lag behind in important areas 
20091031 20:48:58< esr> Ivanovic: I need a string freeze exception to fix bug #14649 (SotBE - losing Flar'Tar and Al'Brock in "The Dwarvish Stand" messes up the following scenario) - I need to introduce two new orcish names.
20091031 20:49:58< Ivanovic> esr: why not rely on auto generated name from the random name generator?
20091031 20:50:15-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091031 20:50:16< Zarel> esr: I have a better solution. A roving necromancer comes by and raises them as WCs! :D
20091031 20:50:40< zookeeper> esr, is it not possible to make them simply not appear there if they're dead and just remove the related dialogue and stuff?
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20091031 20:50:56< zookeeper> (i'm not sure, i don't remember how the dialogue flows exactly)
20091031 20:51:11< esr> Ivanovic: Because I need to do a conditinal rename of two leaders tht may have died in the previous scenario.  They're running allied sides.
20091031 20:51:46< Ivanovic> ehm, so you need to change a whole lot of texts, if the names really matter
20091031 20:51:59< Zarel> You could make them unkillable.
20091031 20:52:07< Zarel> As in, having them die makes you lose Dwarvish Stand.
20091031 20:52:21< esr> If there's a way in WML to get a string randomly chosen from among the orc names, I can use that.
20091031 20:52:40< Ivanovic> i don't know how assigning units random names works
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20091031 20:52:52< Ivanovic> though i'd guess there is some way to do so automagically
20091031 20:52:53< esr> Yeas, but to do that I also need neww strings for the objectives declaration.
20091031 20:53:03< zookeeper> and yeah, the names are used in story text and dialogue too, so you can't just change the names of the units.
20091031 20:53:17< Ivanovic> ugh, this one *really* sucks!
20091031 20:53:33< esr> No, they keep their old IDs, only the display name needs to change.
20091031 20:53:58< Ivanovic> if the names are used in texts those *have* to be updated, too
20091031 20:54:05< Ivanovic> which would result in *many* changed strings
20091031 20:54:09< zookeeper> exactly, so that's a no-go atm
20091031 20:54:31< Ivanovic> i'd say "postponed till post 1.8"
20091031 20:54:37< esr> So there will still be a unit with id Al;'Brock either way
20091031 20:55:34< zookeeper> either they need to be made unkillable, which would probably be highly abusable, or they need to be made to "retreat" when killed, but that'd still require a new string or two
20091031 20:55:39< esr> Wait.  I don't thin that's necessary.  If I write a message tag that selects by id, the text will acully be displayed with the name attribute even if it differs, right?
20091031 20:55:45< Zarel> Well, then, "unkillable" idea, I guess. How would they be abusable?
20091031 20:55:54< Zarel> I don't mean like "they never die", but "if they die you lose"
20091031 20:56:00< Zarel> Like Delfador/Kalenz in HttT.
20091031 20:56:04< zookeeper> esr, yes, but that's not the problem.
20091031 20:56:20< zookeeper> grep for flar'tar and see where it appears in subsequent story texts.
20091031 20:56:27< zookeeper> there's the problem
20091031 20:56:41< esr> zookeeper: What id the problem?  Why can't I just give them a new name attribute if they get killed?
20091031 20:56:51< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: even your idea would require new strings to tell the player in objectives they can't die.
20091031 20:57:00< esr> Checking....
20091031 20:57:01< Aethaeryn> sorry, Zarel 
20091031 20:57:08< zookeeper> esr, because then you have a unit with a different name and story text that talks about flar'tar.
20091031 20:57:17< zookeeper> even though flar'tar died.
20091031 20:57:24< Zarel> I still like my idea of roving necromancers raising them as WCs.
20091031 20:57:29< Aethaeryn> I hate fast convos because if I do z<tab> I say the wrong name :(
20091031 20:57:41< Zarel> They can even raise them as WCs _silently_
20091031 20:57:45< zookeeper> Aethaeryn, "can't be killed", not "must not be killed"
20091031 20:57:59< zookeeper> but yeah, making you lose if they die would probably be better.
20091031 20:58:13< Zarel> zookeeper: That's what I said in the first place. :(
20091031 20:58:17< Zarel> I just explained it badly.
20091031 20:58:54< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: My statement was aimed at Zarel, you just posted between Zarel and my message, thus causing Z<tab> to hilight you. Sorry.
20091031 20:59:27< esr> You're right, they're in story text.  This means the freeze exceptions I need are for "Death of Al'Brock" and "Death of Flar'Tar" in the [objectives] tag.
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20091031 21:02:12< esr> Ivanovic: The least disruptive fix is to add "Death of Al'Brock" and "Death of Flar'Tar" in the [objectives] tag.  We need a decision about that.
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20091031 21:03:11< zookeeper> sounds good to me
20091031 21:03:41< zookeeper> the only thing that wouldn't require any new strings would be to make them unkillable, and that'd be abusable
20091031 21:03:42< Ivanovic> sounds like the most sane solution to me
20091031 21:03:58< esr> OK, I'll do that, then.
20091031 21:04:45< loonycyborg> I definitely can't connect to svn.gna.org from my local IP. It looks like it blocks my provider's ip range :/
20091031 21:05:39< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: submit a bug report to the gna people and ping in #gna
20091031 21:14:21< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: What is the process by which I should revive the Latin translation?
20091031 21:14:36< Ivanovic> just work on the po files!
20091031 21:14:40< stikonas> Aethaeryn: edit the wiki first
20091031 21:14:59< stikonas> and write your name under maintainers
20091031 21:16:01< Aethaeryn> Is there some kind of formality to it?
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20091031 21:18:02< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: What's a po file?
20091031 21:18:23< Ivanovic> the files in po/wesnoth*/*.po are po files
20091031 21:18:30< Ivanovic> the files that include the translations
20091031 21:18:50< Ivanovic> each english string comes together with (space for) a translated string
20091031 21:19:04< Aethaeryn> Also, have you considered enabling dummy locales by default? Otherwise languages that are either constructed or dead won't really get any use in Linux....
20091031 21:19:25< Ivanovic> from 1.7.7 onwards dummy locales are no longer required!
20091031 21:19:34< Aethaeryn> Nice! :)
20091031 21:19:57< Aethaeryn> Okay, I'll admit I have had a busy week so I haven't played around with 1.7.7 as much as past releases. I must have missed that.
20091031 21:21:28< Aethaeryn> Ah, yes... Good ol' Proelium pro Occidiseptentrione.
20091031 21:22:15< Aethaeryn> Needless to say, I'm already questioning a few translation decisions.
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20091031 21:23:06< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: do most languages just leave it as "Wesnoth"?
20091031 21:23:14< Ivanovic> i don't know
20091031 21:23:31< Ivanovic> i just know english and german myself and there it is Wesnoth
20091031 21:23:38< Ivanovic> though some languages might have changed things
20091031 21:23:48< Aethaeryn> Most that translate the top bar seem to use "Wesnoth"... And at least half I checked left the program title as "The Battle for Wesnoth"
20091031 21:24:12< Chusslove> Aethaeryn: Precise stats: 31 languages translate the game name, 9 don't.
20091031 21:24:19< Ivanovic> for translating please make sure to read the information that is provided in the wiki: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslationsHowTo
20091031 21:24:33< Aethaeryn> My main concern is fitting "Occidiseptentrione" into an image and making it look good, though my other issue is that it sounds like a joke... I think this is the biggest word i've seen outside of German.
20091031 21:24:37< stikonas> Chusslove: can you commit my images
20091031 21:24:47< Chusslove> stikonas: Err, which images?
20091031 21:24:52< stikonas> http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/as932/files/
20091031 21:24:55< stikonas> all of them?
20091031 21:25:01< Chusslove> Sure.
20091031 21:25:29< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: But most seem to just adapt "Wesnoth" into their language.
20091031 21:25:42< Aethaeryn> As opposed to a literal translation of Westnorth, which I think this is aiming at.
20091031 21:26:39< Chusslove> Ok, that I don't know about :)
20091031 21:27:06< Chusslove> Aethaeryn: Actually, if you do eqivalent of "Westnorth", you'll be in trouble.
20091031 21:27:20< Chusslove> It should be "like Westnorth, but not quite".
20091031 21:28:09< CIA-58> esr * r39546 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/12_Giving_Some_Back.cfg: More code simplification.
20091031 21:28:13< Chusslove> In Rise of Westnoth characters are speaking about this, and that conversation would have no sense if the name is totally obvious.
20091031 21:30:20< zookeeper> esr, i had intentionally not used MODIFY_UNIT there because it expands to about four times as much code.
20091031 21:30:34< esr> Oh.
20091031 21:31:00< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: actually, it looks like occidio-septem-triones... So the Latin translator translated it as "cut down seven plowing oxen"
20091031 21:31:19< Aethaeryn> Maybe it's an idiom I don't know. ;)
20091031 21:31:29< esr> Shouldn't we be aiming for easiest to read and maintain, though?  It's not like 20 more lines of WML are going to kill performance.
20091031 21:32:08< zookeeper> esr, well, i don't think that anyone who's supposed to be touching scenario code would find the original version hard to read at all :P
20091031 21:34:12< esr> I think you and I have difference in philosophy here.  I think it's well worth spending extra cycles to have code that is easier to read and modify.  I don't think "no, you're supposed to be able to stand the pain" is a good answer.
20091031 21:35:39< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: Nevermind, "septemtrionalis" is northern... So it was an idiom I didn't know.
20091031 21:36:10< zookeeper> well, actually we could cut the cycles in half there...
20091031 21:36:46< zookeeper> anyway, do note that the same bit of code is used in all (?) subsequent scenarios as well
20091031 21:37:55< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Do you think inventing a word for Wesnoth would be better than the attempted translation of Westnorthern?
20091031 21:38:06< zookeeper> the reason they're not macroified or anything is that they're more or less a hack
20091031 21:38:23< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: it depends on the rest of the translation
20091031 21:38:28< Aethaeryn> Such as Wesnothes, a 5th declension feminine (because everyone Latin-ifying a word uses only 1st and 2nd declension :P)
20091031 21:38:45< Chusslove> Aethaeryn: I think you should invent it such that that conversation in Rise of Wesnoth makes sense.
20091031 21:39:08< zookeeper> see, their sides and recalls and whatnot are supposed to just carry over from scenario to scenario normally. however, i had no idea how to make that work when i wrote that, so i used an store/unstore hack to carry over the leaders themselves so that they retain their XP.
20091031 21:41:02< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: "The word Wesfolk is from your old tongue. It means 'People of the West'. The elves call us the people of the west-north. Under the same old tongue that would be 'Wes Noth'. So I suggest that the new kingdom be called 'Wesnoth', in honor of our old home." ?
20091031 21:41:17< CIA-58> caslav_ilic * r39547 /trunk/ (11 files in 7 dirs): Updated localized images for Lithuanian.
20091031 21:41:20< Aethaeryn> The people of the west-north in the "old tongue"?
20091031 21:41:24< Chusslove> Yep, that's the one :)
20091031 21:41:34< Chusslove> So make up a name which will fit good into this line.
20091031 21:41:46< Aethaeryn> Yes, but it's an old tongue. "Wes" and "noth" don't need to be translated.
20091031 21:42:36< Chusslove> Frankly, that "old tongue" stuff looks to me like a weak excuse to have bareable translations :)
20091031 21:42:48< Aethaeryn> But it works.
20091031 21:43:09< Chusslove> Sure, but since you're doing a dead language, you could go fully consistent.
20091031 21:43:58< Aethaeryn> I think that's what Occidiseptentrione is the attempt to do.
20091031 21:43:58< Aethaeryn> since I just determined that septentrione is some kind of idiom compound word for "northern".
20091031 21:44:20< Chusslove> Looks horrbly long though.
20091031 21:44:26< Aethaeryn> Exactly.
20091031 21:44:34< Aethaeryn> Thus Wesnothes
20091031 21:44:57< Aethaeryn> Well, Vesnothes
20091031 21:45:03< Aethaeryn> Latin has no W
20091031 21:46:06< Chusslove> And do you need th?
20091031 21:46:24< Chusslove> (As opposed to just t.)
20091031 21:46:39< Aethaeryn> I'm not sure if Latin uses "th" for Greek loan-words.
20091031 21:47:42< Aethaeryn> The Wesfolk would be the "Vesadvenae" or "Ves" + "strangers/foreigners"
20091031 21:49:25< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: "Vēsnotēs" for Wesnoth then?
20091031 21:49:51< Chusslove> I'm just making random remarks :)
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20091031 21:51:53< CIA-58> caslav_ilic * r39548 /branches/resources/image-localization/lt/ (. great-continent-lt.xcf): Updated source localized images for Lithuanian.
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20091031 21:54:04< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: How do I get the translation files?
20091031 21:54:33< Ivanovic> that should be mentioned in the wikipage i just linked you
20091031 21:54:44< Ivanovic> the locale you are working with is "la"
20091031 21:54:55< Ivanovic> you can also go to gettext.wesnoth.org and click on "Latin" there
20091031 21:56:14< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I have SVN up but I cannot read "wesnoth/translations/la/LC_MESSAGES/wesnoth.mo"
20091031 21:56:26< Aethaeryn> Do I need something installed or did I go to the wrong folder?
20091031 21:56:26< Ivanovic> the files are *NOT* the .mo files
20091031 21:56:33< Ivanovic> look at po/wesnoth*/la.po
20091031 21:56:49< Ivanovic> the files with .mo are the *compiled* translation files
20091031 22:01:01< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Only one person needs to be the maintainer, correct? As in, only one of us needs to mess with submitting the .po files even if there's a team?
20091031 22:07:04< stikonas> Ivanovic: the tooltip which shows current side name on the top of the screen (when I hover mouse over a flag) is untranslated. Should I file a bug report?
20091031 22:12:54< esr> zookeeper: Whenever you find yourself thinking "I should avoid using feature foo because it might slow things down, and instead write lots of one-off code that is more difficult to understand and maintain", what you should be asking instead is "How can I make feature foo faster?" We have ways to do that now replacing MODIFY_UNIT with a trivial bit of lua is probably one of them.
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20091031 22:16:44< esr> Aethaeryn: I approve of Vesadvenae and Vēsnotēs, for whatever that is worth.
20091031 22:17:22< zookeeper> esr, sure. it was well over a year when i did that SotBE stuff.
20091031 22:18:12< zookeeper> well over a year ago, i mean
20091031 22:19:35< esr> Who's the lua expert?
20091031 22:20:13< zookeeper> silene
20091031 22:21:30< esr> I'll ask him to bring me up to speed.  As the macro library maintainer (more or less) I'm probably the one who ought to be thinking about how to replace bulky macros with lua.
20091031 22:23:22< Aethaeryn> esr: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=391805#p391805
20091031 22:23:56< Aethaeryn> I posted it in the Latin thread, but I'll probably make a new thread when there's actually an active collaboration going on since this is more about organizing a translation rather than the translation itself.
20091031 22:24:03< Aethaeryn> And thanks for your opinion...
20091031 22:24:10< Aethaeryn> Proper nouns are a messy business to translate. :(
20091031 22:24:45< Aethaeryn>  Still, I imagine some people will play the Latin translation just for the atmosphere, even if they can't read it.
20091031 22:25:30< fendrin> What could I give the player as a bonus if he manages it to save some of the elvish treasury?
20091031 22:25:51< Aethaeryn> Chusslove: ^ You might be interested in that link too. Moving the discussion of the Latin name of Wesnoth to the forums.
20091031 22:25:55< esr> Yes.  I think you are correct that trying for a literal translation would be inapproprpriate.  
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20091031 22:27:15< esr> "Wesnoth" is what linguists call a "calque", an embedding of words from one tongue into another.  I think it is right that the Latin translation should be a calque as well.
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20091031 22:32:24< silene> esr: [lua] code=<< local H = wesnoth.require "lua/helper.lua"; H.modify_unit({ id = "Al'Brock" }, { canrecruit = false, side = 1 }) >> [/lua]
20091031 22:33:43< Zarel> occenboris?
20091031 22:33:49< Zarel> That doesn't sound very good, though.
20091031 22:34:02< esr> silene: Sonds lke the translation of MODIFY_SIDE follows petty obviously.
20091031 22:34:11< Zarel> occiboralis?
20091031 22:34:34< Zarel> I dunno, I'd rather play Vesnotes than Occiboralis.
20091031 22:36:18< Aethaeryn> Could be Vesnothes... Depends on if there ever was a useage of "th" in Latin language for loan words.
20091031 22:37:14< Aethaeryn> of course, note that Vesnotes is pronounced as "Wēs-no-tēs" and not "Ves-notes"
20091031 22:38:02< esr> Aethaeryn: I think they retained the sound of 'th' in Greek loanwords.
20091031 22:38:43< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: yes, only one person needs to send the stuff over to me (that one is called "maintainer")
20091031 22:38:49< Aethaeryn> esr: So do you think Vesnotes or Vesnothes sounds/works-out better?
20091031 22:38:53< Ivanovic> the maintainer gathers the po files and sends them to me
20091031 22:39:03< Ivanovic> stikonas: yeah, file a bug report
20091031 22:39:20< Ivanovic> stikonas: since the team names *are* translateable, those strings should somehow also be used
20091031 22:39:22< esr> Aethaeryn: I'm good with either.  Vesnotes is probably slightly purer.
20091031 22:39:27< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I wouldn't mind being the maintainer since I already compile SVN trunk just about once a day.
20091031 22:42:34< esr> silene: Is that going to work in a macro, or will macroexpansion hose luea's { and }?
20091031 22:43:29< esr> E.g, if I say
20091031 22:43:51< esr> #define MODIFY_UNIT FILTER VAR VALUE
20091031 22:43:55< esr>     [lua] 
20091031 22:43:57< esr>         code=<< local H = wesnoth.require "lua/helper.lua"; H.modify_unit({{FILTER}}, {{WESNOTH}}) >> 
20091031 22:43:58< esr>     [/lua]
20091031 22:44:01< esr> #enddef
20091031 22:44:11< esr> Is that going to work?
20091031 22:44:26< silene> esr: macro expansion is disabled between << and >>, so no it won't; but you don't have to change it much:
20091031 22:44:38< esr> Sorry {WESNOTH} should read {WML}
20091031 22:44:45< esr> I'm listening...
20091031 22:45:56< silene> "local cfg = ...; modify_unit(cfg.filter, cfg.wml)" in the lua code, and then you put a [args] block with filter and wml tags
20091031 22:46:18< silene> (it's really "...", not an ellipsis)
20091031 22:47:05< silene> give me a few seconds, i will paste the complete code, it will be clearer
20091031 22:47:16< esr> Pastebin it for me, please, or just code it in data/core/macros/utils.cfg.  If I try to write it from that, I'll screw it up.
20091031 22:47:22< esr> Aha, yes.
20091031 22:52:56< Aethaeryn> Oooh....
20091031 22:53:13< Aethaeryn> esr: Do you think "appendix" would work as the Latin for the idiom "add-on"?
20091031 22:53:35< Aethaeryn> "appendix, supplement, annex; appendage, adjunct; hanger on; barberry bush/fruit;"
20091031 22:53:43< esr> Aethaeryn: Absolutely!  Clever and a bit funny, too.
20091031 22:55:00< Zarel> Aethaeryn: I just thought of a problem.
20091031 22:55:10< Zarel> How would you translate that dialog in TRoW?
20091031 22:55:59< Zarel> "We're the people of the occidentalis-borealis, so clearly our name should be Vesnotes!"
20091031 22:56:48< Aethaeryn> Zarel: it says "Wesfolk" is old tongue for "people of the west"
20091031 22:56:59< Aethaeryn> notice how it's "wes" and "noth" not "west" and "north"
20091031 22:57:04< Aethaeryn> it just happens to work out neater in English than Latin.
20091031 22:57:18< Zarel> That's good.
20091031 22:57:20< esr> Yes, in that dialgue "Wesnoth" is already *phonetically* derived, so it's OK.
20091031 22:57:29< Zarel> Well, that works. Erm... you know what I mean.
20091031 22:57:31< Aethaeryn> I'm transliterating instead of translating for a reason.
20091031 22:57:53< silene> esr: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/dd50392f (untested)
20091031 23:02:57< CIA-58> loonycyborg * r39549 /trunk/SConstruct: Removed dummy locales from scons.
20091031 23:03:55< esr> silene: I think I see.  cfg[1] gets bound to the contents of the first [dummy] block, cfgg[2] to the second?
20091031 23:04:25< silene> yes
20091031 23:04:26< zookeeper> wait, what, that's supposed to do what the current MODIFY_UNIT does?
20091031 23:04:32< zookeeper> O.o
20091031 23:05:16< esr> Er, what's wrong with it?
20091031 23:05:42< silene> zookeeper: it should at least cover the uses in mainline campaigns; perhaps there are some umc that use it in an exotic way
20091031 23:05:54< zookeeper> nothing, looks like helper.lua contains most of the code
20091031 23:07:24< esr> OK, next question: if there are multiple inclusions of helper.lua is it reinterpreted each time?  Because if so we may not be gaining much here.
20091031 23:08:00< silene> zookeeper: yes, there is not much point in duplicating the lua code in all the instances of the macro
20091031 23:08:43< silene> esr: no, it isn't
20091031 23:08:59< silene> ("dofile" reinterprets, "require" does not)
20091031 23:12:06< esr> OK, good.  
20091031 23:12:33< esr> Nowcwe gotta come up with a test for this thing...
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20091031 23:17:49< esr> silene: will compound assignments like side,canrecruit=1,no work with this?
20091031 23:18:15< silene> yes
20091031 23:19:26< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: How do I send you the .po file?
20091031 23:19:27< esr> OK, so noting in docs.
20091031 23:20:32< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: please read this wiki page!
20091031 23:20:34< Ivanovic> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslationsHowTo
20091031 23:21:01< Aethaeryn> email?
20091031 23:21:14< Ivanovic> correct
20091031 23:21:31< Ivanovic> and *how* you should do so is listed there, too
20091031 23:27:37< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Is there a way to test edits? Recompiling?
20091031 23:27:53< Ivanovic> if you keep the po files in your rep: yeah, recompiling should do it
20091031 23:31:05< Aethaeryn> gedit knows gettext syntax, that's handy.
20091031 23:31:11< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Do I remove "fuzzy" if I fix the translation?
20091031 23:31:30< Ivanovic> yes, then you remove the fuzzy
20091031 23:31:48< Ivanovic> though i would recommend using poedit or other specific tools for translating
20091031 23:32:07< Ivanovic> they have the benefit that it is less likely to break the file syntax
20091031 23:32:46< Aethaeryn> If the file syntax is broken, it should *in theory* stop hilighting the right way
20091031 23:33:47< zookeeper> silene, does that handle subtag assignments like {MODIFY_UNIT id=Konrad modifications.trait[1].name _"foo"}?
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20091031 23:37:51< silene> zookeeper, esr: probably not, here is a modified version that should do the trick: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d3ae63cdc
20091031 23:38:25< Aethaeryn> Hmm, I *really* don't like some of these translation choices.
20091031 23:38:51< silene> though it will no longer handle multiple assignments
20091031 23:40:46< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: then change them!
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20091031 23:43:03< zookeeper> silene, some time ago i tried to make MODIFY_UNIT accept multiple assignments but i found out that i would have had to choose between the two.
20091031 23:44:34< zookeeper> looks like the same applies here
20091031 23:46:05< silene> more or less; it is easy to modify it so that it supports most multiple assignments; but multiple assignments involving translatable strings would fail
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