--- Log opened Wed Oct 07 00:00:35 2009
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20091007 03:07:11< Aethaeryn> oooh... Michael Moore is on Fox News being interviewed by Sean Hannity... This is going to get interesting... (Hey don't judge, I was flipping through the channels.)
20091007 03:09:41< noy> or it should just be a bunch of idiots grandstanding
20091007 03:10:05< Aethaeryn> noy: Isn't that what television is for ?
20091007 03:13:27< Aethaeryn> Michael Moore: "Jesus said to love your enemy..." Hannity: "I love my enemy." Moore: "Do you love Al-Qaeda." Hannity: "I love them in the sense that I want to destroy them. ... send them to Allah" Moore: "I don't think that's what Jesus meant."
20091007 03:34:59< noy> heh
20091007 03:35:19< noy> its like dumb and dumber
20091007 03:35:31< noy> except harry and lloyd think they are the smartest people on earth
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20091007 03:54:43< [Relic]> Hello :)
20091007 03:56:39< Aethaeryn> hi [Relic] 
20091007 03:58:12-!- elynia [n=shyde@wesnoth/umc-dev/misc/elynia] has joined #wesnoth
20091007 03:58:35< [Relic]> :)
20091007 03:59:56-!- Cheese-kun is now known as Espreon
20091007 04:00:59< Aethaeryn> Wesnoth.org problems?
20091007 04:01:16< Aethaeryn> or just lag, nevermind
20091007 04:02:15< Aethaeryn> [Relic]: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=388142#p388142
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20091007 04:05:19< [Relic]> interesting
20091007 04:06:24< natasiel> is it known that the main server is NS?
20091007 04:06:54< shadowmaster> NS?
20091007 04:07:18< natasiel> (not serviceable)
20091007 04:07:22< natasiel> or down if you like
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20091007 04:11:42< shadowmaster> natasiel: is it still?
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20091007 04:13:12< natasiel> let me see...
20091007 04:14:06< natasiel> the connection seems to get a bit farther but doesn't complete
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20091007 04:14:42< shadowmaster> yes it seems to be stuck.
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20091007 04:18:09< natasiel> anyway, time to either fall back to server 2 or get to sleep
20091007 04:18:14< natasiel> thank you and cya
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20091007 10:47:34< Ivanovic> moin
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20091007 17:00:33< Woodmouse> hi people
20091007 17:03:54< _aD> Afternoon!
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20091007 17:15:59< Pinco_Pallino> <nucccio> ciao a tutti
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20091007 21:26:10< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20091007 21:51:09< Arc> hey guys
20091007 21:51:30< Arc> is there a set of fonts that wesnoth requires or has bundled for internal use?
20091007 21:53:46< shadowmaster> there are some fonts which wesnoth uses; they come with the source code archive, and packagers should also include them in the correct location in the binary packages for your platform
20091007 21:54:07< shadowmaster> it should not be necessary to install any font by hand.
20091007 21:54:09< Arc> and no fonts are used within wesnoth which are not shipped with it
20091007 21:54:51< Arc> i'm asking because we're looking at adding a translation to wesnoth which requires unicode glyphs which are almost certainly not already included in these fonts, so the first step would be to add them
20091007 21:55:10< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: ^
20091007 21:55:53< Ivanovic> uhm, for this you will have to alter data/*something*/fonts.cfg
20091007 21:56:12< Ivanovic> that is: which language is that for that the fonts are most likely not available yet?
20091007 21:56:26< Arc> en@shaw
20091007 21:56:32< Ivanovic> dejavu covers most of the standard stuff and the asian font we have covers a lot of the rest
20091007 21:57:24< Ivanovic> okay, no idea what this is meant to be
20091007 21:57:33< Arc> unicode range U+10450 to U+1047F, plus U+00B7
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20091007 21:57:50< Ivanovic> the easiest way would probably be just to replace DejaVu or the asian font with your font and be done
20091007 21:57:59< Ivanovic> no idea if we really rely on the codepoints
20091007 21:58:14< Arc> do you use dejavu directly?
20091007 21:58:31< Ivanovic> we just the file provided in fonts/
20091007 21:59:00< Arc> i ask because it's perhaps easier to add the glyphs to this font with fontforge
20091007 21:59:21< Arc> modified from the public domain lionspaw or esl_gothic font
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20091007 21:59:50< Arc> it's just 49 glyphs
20091007 22:00:41< Arc> 48 if the font already has "MIDDLE DOT" ('·' or '\u00B7')
20091007 22:01:51< Arc> i assume that ·𐑚𐑩𐑑𐑤 ·𐑓𐑹 ·𐑢𐑧𐑕𐑯𐑔 shouldn't be rendered for you
20091007 22:02:12< shadowmaster> the version of dejavu sans mono I have doesn't seem to have those 
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20091007 22:03:23< Arc> as i said, i have no issue either plugging a public domain or freely licensed font in, or adding glyphs to the fonts used internally by wesnoth, just need to know what's preferred 
20091007 22:04:16< Ivanovic> Arc: before we extend the list of fonts the translation has to be rather far
20091007 22:04:42< Arc> we have a 120k+ dictionary that does autotransliteration on basically everything but proper names, it only took a few hours to transliterate the entire gnome desktop
20091007 22:04:45< Ivanovic> (that is a translation can use it, sure, but the ones using it will have to get the font files themselves)
20091007 22:05:15< Arc> will wesnoth fallback on a system font if the internally shipped fonts lack the glyphs?
20091007 22:05:26< Ivanovic> no, it will fallback to squares
20091007 22:05:43< Arc> thats what i assumed
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20091007 22:07:10< Arc> i think ESL_Gothic would look great in wesnoth, it has a sharp feel that makes the text look almost elven or runic.  if we do this we're not talking a few weeks to dally around hand translating strings, we're talking about an afternoon to batch process most of it and hand translate names
20091007 22:07:35< Arc> http://shavian.ravenscall.net/fonts/esl_gothic_unicode.ttf
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20091007 22:09:59< Arc> so adding a font is preferable?
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20091007 22:12:59< Ivanovic> altering the existing ones is *not* wanted since we just use the new ones from them, once new updates are out
20091007 22:13:13< Arc> cool
20091007 22:13:51< Ivanovic> that is: i have no idea if we really should add a new font for such an "esotheric" translation...
20091007 22:14:45< Ivanovic> for the moment you should probably rely on the stuff mentioned here http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothAsianLanguages
20091007 22:14:52< Ivanovic> (though by now it is extremely outdated)
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20091007 22:20:51< Arc> well i'd be glad to only apply this for Ubuntu, though it would seem silly to tell people prefering to use shavian that they must play wesnoth on Ubuntu to use shavian
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20091007 22:21:06< Arc> whenever possible we prefer to submit translations upstream
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20091007 22:25:45< Arc> Ivanovic: just to clarify, you're saying that you do not want to use our translations at this time?
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20091007 22:31:24< Ivanovic> Arc: you are free to commit the files upstream
20091007 22:31:45< Ivanovic> what i say is that it is unlikely taht we will directly add the *fonts* required unless they are really damn tiny
20091007 22:32:15< shadowmaster> um, do we have a file size limit for fonts?
20091007 22:32:24< Arc> ok, but if wesnoth doesn't fallback to system fonts to render glyphs it doesnt support, what good would that do?
20091007 22:32:39< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: no
20091007 22:32:47< shadowmaster> right, so.
20091007 22:32:52< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: it is just that fonts easily get damn big
20091007 22:33:11< Arc> define small
20091007 22:34:11< shadowmaster> the font linked above is less than 41 KB
20091007 22:34:13< Ivanovic> Arc: common asian fonts are far away from small
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20091007 22:38:32< Arc> sorry i lost connection there
20091007 22:38:40< Arc> i have a 25k font here that would fit the bill
20091007 22:39:23< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: what I mean is that we have image files that are much bigger than that.
20091007 22:39:30< shadowmaster> much, much bigger.
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20091007 22:46:41< Ivanovic> yes, 25k is really tiny and should not hurt at all
20091007 22:46:52< Arc> alright then :-)
20091007 22:47:03< Ivanovic> but, uhm, stringfreeze!!!!
20091007 22:47:05< Ivanovic> ;)
20091007 22:47:12< Arc> stringfreeze?
20091007 22:47:40< Ivanovic> no strings added/changed that can not be automatically done using pofix
20091007 22:48:01< shadowmaster> ivanovic is talking about stuff that very few people know about.
20091007 22:48:16< Ivanovic> (the font line can be changed using pofix, but the language needs an entry in the credits, too though i'd guess that this would not stop us anyway)
20091007 22:48:18< Arc> does that mean that no new translations can be added? or no new strings can be added/changed that need to be translated
20091007 22:48:55< Arc> and translator credit
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20091007 22:50:48< Ivanovic> the new translation can be added
20091007 22:51:30< Ivanovic> just mail me the files once they are ready and create a file for data/languages/ (attach it to the mail and make sure that it is utf8)
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20091007 22:51:46< Arc> where are you in release cycle?
20091007 22:51:47< Ivanovic> the file should have the langcode and the *native* name of the translation
20091007 22:52:08< Ivanovic> feature and string freeze to prepare for a "rather soon" new stable series
20091007 22:52:21< Ivanovic> (string freeze so that translators can actually get work done...)
20091007 22:52:38< Arc> nice how do i grab a copy of it from dVCS?
20091007 22:52:50< Arc> i should be able to get it done by this weekend
20091007 22:53:52< Ivanovic> i can create you the files, just give me some time (need to shower first)
20091007 22:54:23< Arc> no problem
20091007 22:54:45< Ivanovic> then you can directly get the files either via svn (checkout of trunk) or from gettext.wesnoth.org
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20091007 22:55:14< Arc> whats the svn path?
20091007 22:55:17< Ivanovic> though when sending them to me please put them into an archive and name them wesnoth/en@shaw.po, wesnoth-lib/en@shaw.po and so on
20091007 22:55:29< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/svn/?group=wesnoth
20091007 22:55:34< Ivanovic> the info for the trunk checkout is there
20091007 22:55:55< Arc> the language name would be English (Shaw Alphabet), code is en@shaw
20091007 22:56:09< Arc> no i mean for your stable branch
20091007 22:56:43< Ivanovic> won't be added in the stable branch
20091007 22:56:53< Ivanovic> and we branch trunk into the new stable branch after 1.8 is tagged
20091007 22:57:07< Ivanovic> (then it will be branches/1.8, but this is still some weeks away)
20091007 22:57:14< Arc> um, ok - what branch do i need to get to grab the proper translation strings
20091007 22:57:40< Ivanovic> please also have a look at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTranslationsHowTo (and see yourself as new maintainer)
20091007 22:57:42< Ivanovic> trunk
20091007 22:57:46< Ivanovic> all the stuff is in trunk
20091007 22:57:48< Arc> ah
20091007 22:57:53< Arc> so stringfreeze is on trunk
20091007 22:57:56< Ivanovic> jupp
20091007 22:58:26< Arc> got it
20091007 22:58:41< Arc> normally a soon-to-be-released is branched off on its own so people can continue to work on trunk
20091007 22:58:49< Arc> but im happy with grabbing from trunk :-)
20091007 23:04:10< Ivanovic> we don't do this simply to make the devs concentrate on bug fixes instead of new features
20091007 23:06:08< Ivanovic> argh
20091007 23:06:13< Ivanovic> now svn does not like me anymore
20091007 23:06:25< Ivanovic> i can't make it run *anything* if the filenames include an '@'
20091007 23:06:36-!- faryshta_ [n=faryshta@168.255.251.50] has joined #wesnoth
20091007 23:06:42< Ivanovic> (so running explicit svn add commands on the new files is not possible)
20091007 23:06:48< Ivanovic> ARGH!
20091007 23:07:10< faryshta_> Hi, what I need to do to avoid the "this file is corrupt" messages during replays?
20091007 23:07:13-!- _aD [i=quadra@134.255.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20091007 23:07:26< faryshta_> I mean while playing what I need to do to "not corrupt" my games?
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20091007 23:12:11< Ivanovic> Arc: looks like getting those files commited will take a little while longer
20091007 23:12:23< Arc> ?
20091007 23:12:49< Ivanovic> in the mean time you can either generate them yourself using this in a bash when in the folder po/ in the trunk checkout:
20091007 23:12:51< Ivanovic> for i in wesnoth*/; do cd $i; msginit -l en@shaw --no-translator; cd ..; done
20091007 23:13:06< Ivanovic> the problem is that svn does not want me to add the files
20091007 23:13:24< Arc> why?
20091007 23:13:31< Ivanovic> (yes, it barfs because of the @ in the filename, though we already have some translations with @ in the names)
20091007 23:13:42< Arc> oh messed
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20091007 23:19:16< Ivanovic> Arc: please send me directly the font and the en@shaw.cfg file
20091007 23:19:26< Ivanovic> (no idea which locale to really use...)
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20091007 23:19:38< Ivanovic> my email addy should be on the wiki page i just gave you
20091007 23:20:43< Arc> i will :-)
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20091007 23:25:54< Ivanovic> regarding the font please also make sure to have something for the files fonts/COPYING (basically some patch or the likes) so that the license of the font is listed
20091007 23:29:35< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?rev=39157&view=rev
20091007 23:29:44< Ivanovic> your files are all online now
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20091007 23:29:53< Ivanovic> and in some mins you should also appear at stats.wesnoth.org
20091007 23:30:16< Ivanovic> s/stats.wesnoth.org/gettext.wesnoth.org
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20091007 23:43:09< faryshta_> Hi, what I need to do to avoid the "this file is corrupt" messages during replays?
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20091007 23:57:59< Ivanovic> faryshta_: some campaigns/missions are simply broken regarding replay
--- Log closed Thu Oct 08 00:00:05 2009