--- Log opened Wed Oct 14 00:00:48 2009
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20091014 01:36:23< meowreka> man
20091014 01:36:31< meowreka> people give terrible map critique
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20091014 02:01:42< vatzec> hello :-)
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20091014 02:13:58< meowreka> hi vaztec
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20091014 03:52:25< Aethaeryn> <meowreka> people give terrible map critique
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20091014 03:52:45< Aethaeryn> Doc Paterson is *the* map guy. Thus his red name.
20091014 03:53:04< shadowmaster> Doc has spoken? *runs to read*
20091014 03:53:23< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27430
20091014 03:53:56< shadowmaster> by now you'd know I know more than you about the forums and rarely need a link?
20091014 03:54:09< Aethaeryn> Nope.
20091014 03:54:16< Aethaeryn> Just trying to save you a few seconds.
20091014 03:54:17< shadowmaster> If I got lost while browsing them, there would be no forums :P
20091014 03:54:27< meowreka> nobody even gives advice on what to do
20091014 03:54:33< meowreka> they simply say I've done things wrong
20091014 03:54:35< Aethaeryn> I read just about every post... they're pretty wimpy forums.
20091014 03:55:10< Aethaeryn> meowreka: It's kinda hard when we have to prove to you that you're DOING it wrong, because your ego won't admit it half the time as you're overly-defensive of your work.
20091014 03:55:53< meowreka> I realize I did things wrong
20091014 03:55:59< meowreka> nobody is telling me how to correct the things I did
20091014 03:57:02< Aethaeryn> meowreka: you argue like I do... completely changing the point you're arguing when the original point is discredited.
20091014 03:57:08< Aethaeryn> So I notice what you're doing. :P
20091014 03:57:30< meowreka> please stop this
20091014 03:57:59< meowreka> did anyone give me any ways to correct anything?
20091014 03:58:32< Aethaeryn> You never asked Doc.
20091014 03:58:44< meowreka> do I have to specifically?
20091014 03:58:48< meowreka> I don't feel like I should
20091014 03:58:59< meowreka> I don't feel as though I was being disrespectful
20091014 03:59:04< meowreka> and in turn I am getting a lot of disrespect
20091014 03:59:26< Aethaeryn> You were very disrespectful. I'm disrespectful only to make my point, to point it out to you before you're completely marginalized.
20091014 03:59:46< meowreka> I'm sorry for being a child
20091014 03:59:48< shadowmaster> meowreka: could you point at any particular post that actually shows disrespect for your work?
20091014 03:59:57< meowreka> not disrespect for my work
20091014 03:59:59< meowreka> for ME
20091014 04:00:06< shadowmaster> or for you, sure, please. Link.
20091014 04:00:29< meowreka> maybe not to everyone but I find the remarks about me having an ego to be uncalled for, because I wasn't showing an ego
20091014 04:00:36< Aethaeryn> ...
20091014 04:00:38< meowreka> I was asking for advice
20091014 04:00:42< Aethaeryn> I appreciate the helpful replies, but if this degenerates into "I do not like your map because it does not play exactly how I want it to play" then I'm not sure I want critique at ALL.
20091014 04:00:49< Aethaeryn> ^ That is a very ignorant line to say.
20091014 04:00:58< meowreka> "if"
20091014 04:01:12< Aethaeryn> Especially to Doc Paterson, the guy who develops/balances most of Wesnoth's MP maps.
20091014 04:01:27< meowreka> didn't say that at doc
20091014 04:01:39< shadowmaster> the Volcanicity description is very... self-indulgent, maybe?
20091014 04:01:58< meowreka> I'm sure sarcasm is hard to spot on the internet
20091014 04:02:24< meowreka> it is fun though, for me
20091014 04:02:24< meowreka> even when losing
20091014 04:02:56< Aethaeryn> Whatever, if you didn't like my "ego" comment I removed it and I'm stepping out of the thread.
20091014 04:02:58< shadowmaster> I personally avoid talking of my works as amazing :P
20091014 04:03:18< shadowmaster> (and this before I started to consider them utterly embarassing)
20091014 04:03:26< meowreka> I realize I'm on the losing end of an argument and if I continue I'll look like (more) of an idiot. I'm not new to the internet. Whether I'm wrong or right, nobody will be willing to see my point of view, so I refuse to carry this on and I want the topic locked.
20091014 04:04:01< shadowmaster> the proper response would be to apply the feedback and improve your work.
20091014 04:04:28< Aethaeryn> That is what the forums and IRC are for. Feedback -> response (fixing problems) -> more feedback (repeats cycle).
20091014 04:04:32< meowreka> It's hard to apply the feedback
20091014 04:04:36< Aethaeryn> It's more evident in the art forums because there's more art.
20091014 04:04:39< meowreka> when I don't know what people are asking
20091014 04:04:44< meowreka> or telling me 
20091014 04:04:56< Aethaeryn> Maybe Doc saw your map had general/fundamental problems?
20091014 04:05:02< meowreka> maybe
20091014 04:05:04< meowreka> but he didn't say anything
20091014 04:05:19< meowreka> it wasn't feedback as much as it was calling me out on my statements then offering no clue as to why he did so
20091014 04:06:25< meowreka> my view may be wrong and I accept that
20091014 04:06:35< meowreka> but I hope you understand I feel very much like I'm being cornered at the moment
20091014 04:06:35< meowreka> and am very defensive because of that
20091014 04:09:29< shadowmaster> then it'd be better if you acknowledged that by not starting an argument?
20091014 04:10:30< meowreka> did I start an argument?
20091014 04:10:40< shadowmaster> you did here. :P
20091014 04:10:41< meowreka> at what point?
20091014 04:10:42< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20091014 04:11:04< Aethaeryn> My point is that you're overly defensive whenever anyone gives you advice.
20091014 04:11:10< Aethaeryn> My point is that you're overly defensive whenever anyone gives you advice.[A[A[A[A[A
20091014 04:11:14< meowreka> what
20091014 04:11:18< meowreka> a a a a a?
20091014 04:11:22< meowreka> when did I start the argument
20091014 04:11:25< Aethaeryn> My mouse sometimes scews up like that.
20091014 04:11:27< shadowmaster> I'm not going to paste a dozen of IRC lines to show my point.
20091014 04:11:28< Aethaeryn> Replaying a pervious line.
20091014 04:11:34< meowreka> what phrase
20091014 04:11:56< Aethaeryn> It's the laptop, poor placement of the "scroll up" part of the touch mouse
20091014 04:12:25< meowreka> I don't recall starting an argument
20091014 04:12:55< meowreka> nothing that I know of challenged anyone else's statement in particular
20091014 04:13:25< shadowmaster> but you are still being defensive, and I'm just giving you a recommendation. So, I suggest you just relax, have a cup of tea and move on.
20091014 04:13:41< shadowmaster> (tea always helps, really)
20091014 04:13:46< meowreka> I don't like it
20091014 04:13:49< meowreka> people are attacking me
20091014 04:13:59< meowreka> arr
20091014 04:15:23< Aethaeryn> Eh, my issue is that you see everything as an attack
20091014 04:15:34< meowreka> not everything
20091014 04:15:37< meowreka> just specific things
20091014 04:15:40< Aethaeryn> As a person who used to edit Wikipedia a lot... Assume Good faith.
20091014 04:15:55< meowreka> when someone uses the word "you" a lot
20091014 04:16:02< Aethaeryn> Assume that comments are in good faith.
20091014 04:16:04< meowreka> or refers to an individual in particular
20091014 04:16:07< meowreka> it is generally accusing
20091014 04:16:15< meowreka> and hostile
20091014 04:16:30< shikadibot> shadowmaster, shadowmaster, shadowmaster: YOU!
20091014 04:18:17< meowreka> when an entire forum or an IRC channel has a collective opinion that is quite similar, and one individual has a very opposite one, then it's difficult for it to be non-hostile
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20091014 04:18:49< meowreka> oh meric
20091014 04:18:54< meowreka> we will miss you
20091014 04:18:57< meowreka> )':
20091014 04:20:55< meowreka> http://wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27426 this is an example of very constructive critisizm and is better than what I was getting in the other topic ):
20091014 04:28:10< meowreka> my overall experience with the wesnoth community has not been a pleasant one
20091014 04:29:08< shadowmaster> you'd really know if we were attacking you ;)
20091014 04:29:38< meowreka> ):
20091014 04:29:45< shadowmaster> e.g. you would not be here.
20091014 04:29:56< meowreka> not per se
20091014 04:30:04< meowreka> I'm always here in spirit
20091014 04:37:59< Aethaeryn> That's not what he means. He is implying that people would attack you in private (non-logged) channels or private messages.
20091014 04:38:10< Aethaeryn> i.e. behind your back
20091014 04:38:17< Aethaeryn> Trust me, it doesn't happen.
20091014 04:38:39< meowreka> oh
20091014 04:38:41< meowreka> that doesn't bother me
20091014 04:38:51< meowreka> I would prefer people do that than other ways
20091014 04:44:39< Aethaeryn> k
20091014 04:44:46< Aethaeryn> to #Wesnoth-meowreka 
20091014 04:44:52< meowreka> man
20091014 04:44:59< meowreka> nobody that plays wesnoth plays video games
20091014 04:45:20< Aethaeryn> ?
20091014 04:45:28< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze talks about his love affair with the PS3 all the time.
20091014 04:45:28< meowreka> if I am not playing a video game, I am discussing video games. If I'm not discussing video games, I'm pretending I'm in them (-1 charisma)
20091014 04:45:29< shadowmaster> console games?
20091014 04:45:36< meowreka> games
20091014 04:45:37< meowreka> real games
20091014 04:45:38< meowreka> all games
20091014 04:45:43< meowreka> nobody is a diversified gamer!
20091014 04:45:52< meowreka> I have played every console sans for the ps3, because of price reasons
20091014 04:46:05< meowreka> I have nothing in common with anyone here ;-;
20091014 04:46:09< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: Blueblaze has a crush on a PS3?
20091014 04:46:14< Aethaeryn> I play all kinds of games. I'm just only good at slow-moving strategy.
20091014 04:46:20< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: It ain't a crush if you're in a real relationship.
20091014 04:46:24< Aethaeryn> And he's in a real relationship with one.
20091014 04:46:31< Aethaeryn> A real serious one, takes up all his Wesnoth time.
20091014 04:46:35< shadowmaster> that sounds sick and non-Wesnothish.
20091014 04:46:39< shadowmaster> kill him ;)
20091014 04:46:47< Aethaeryn> Yeah, he's even in ##ps3
20091014 04:46:50< meowreka> I wish
20091014 04:46:52< meowreka> halo odst
20091014 04:46:53< meowreka> had a lobby
20091014 04:47:00< meowreka> other games on xbox live have lobbies
20091014 04:47:03< Aethaeryn> I wish they didn't make Halo ODST.
20091014 04:47:03< meowreka> why is bungie so lazy
20091014 04:47:06< shadowmaster> meowreka: maybe you just don't talk with people who have a thing in common with you in wesnoth?
20091014 04:47:13< meowreka> halo odst is the best of the halos
20091014 04:47:15< meowreka> halo 2 is the worst
20091014 04:47:20< meowreka> halo 3 is redeemed by the forge but nothing else
20091014 04:47:30< meowreka> you haven't even played all of the halo games have you?
20091014 04:47:42< Aethaeryn> Releasing a game once a year, or even more frequently than once a year (Guitar Hero) is probably one reason why I simply cannot do console gaming.
20091014 04:47:45< Aethaeryn> No budget.
20091014 04:47:51< Aethaeryn> I played Halo 3 for a while, and it wasn't that great.
20091014 04:47:53< meowreka> halo 3 was out for about
20091014 04:47:54< meowreka> four
20091014 04:47:58< meowreka> years before odst came out
20091014 04:47:58< meowreka> and no
20091014 04:47:59< Aethaeryn> Tbh, I only played it because everyone else did.
20091014 04:48:01< meowreka> halo 3 wasn't that great
20091014 04:48:04< meowreka> it was terrible
20091014 04:48:07< meowreka> odst is not
20091014 04:48:09< Blueblaze> hi
20091014 04:48:11< meowreka> ODST is very good.
20091014 04:48:19< meowreka> ODST is emotionally involving at some points!
20091014 04:48:21< Blueblaze> ODST is very second rate
20091014 04:48:25< meowreka> It has a very interesting story
20091014 04:48:27< Blueblaze> It just has the label Halo attached to it
20091014 04:48:28< meowreka> And is the best of the halo games
20091014 04:48:29< Blueblaze> so people bought it
20091014 04:48:39< Aethaeryn> Halo Wars sucked, Halo 3 sucked, I don't know if I can honestly spend money on another Halo game.
20091014 04:48:42< Blueblaze> It is also one of the worst improvements from a Halo series, but it isn't an independent title
20091014 04:48:44< meowreka> Halo wars sucked
20091014 04:48:46< meowreka> Halo 3 sucked
20091014 04:48:48< Aethaeryn> and I had high hopes for Halo Wars... I *love* Age of Empires.
20091014 04:48:50< meowreka> Halo ODST is the best
20091014 04:48:52< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: Halo ODST is Halo 3 with a new sticker
20091014 04:48:56< Aethaeryn> Like, AoE II took several years from my life in middle school.
20091014 04:49:00< Blueblaze> kbi
20091014 04:49:01< meowreka> Halo ODST is nothing like
20091014 04:49:02< meowreka> ok
20091014 04:49:02< meowreka> see
20091014 04:49:04< meowreka> this is what I mean
20091014 04:49:12< meowreka> you are all such opinionated people but none of you are diversified at all
20091014 04:49:17< Aethaeryn> And AoE 3 took my winter break last year.
20091014 04:49:17< meowreka> this is terrible
20091014 04:49:21< meowreka> this is why I hate the internet
20091014 04:49:26< Blueblaze> meowreka: then pull the plug
20091014 04:49:27< Aethaeryn> And Halo Wars took maybe 5 minutes of my time.
20091014 04:49:27< Blueblaze> and go away please
20091014 04:49:34< meowreka> you rude man
20091014 04:49:42< shadowmaster> meowreka: nobody is being rude to you :(
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20091014 04:49:56< Blueblaze> That was too easy
20091014 04:49:59< shadowmaster> I am afraid I'll have to push the button soon.
20091014 04:49:59< Blueblaze> :\
20091014 04:50:05< Blueblaze> Okay, gonna go take a nap, bye
20091014 04:50:44< Blueblaze> shadowmaster: And yes, my PS3 is taking my Wesnoth time :\
20091014 04:51:00< shadowmaster> Blueblaze: nobody taught you that girlfriends are bad for wesnoth people!
20091014 04:51:19< Blueblaze> well, PS3 + a girl = absolutely no time for Wesnoth lol
20091014 04:51:29< shadowmaster> :O
20091014 04:51:31< Blueblaze> That's the situation I'm in
20091014 04:51:38< shadowmaster> yeah, and your secret project?
20091014 04:51:50< shadowmaster> are we ever going to see it? :(
20091014 04:51:53< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: No one can have two masters. Either you'll be loyal to your girlfriend or your PS3.
20091014 04:51:55< Blueblaze> Not at this rate lol
20091014 04:52:00< Aethaeryn> Might be a bit of a paraphrase from an old saying.
20091014 04:52:03< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: Well, she's not my girlfriend -yet-
20091014 04:52:11< Blueblaze> Yes, from the Bible actually
20091014 04:52:18< shadowmaster> wait, you want to replace your PS3 or your girlfriend?
20091014 04:52:46< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: Sarcasm.
20091014 04:52:50< Blueblaze> lol
20091014 04:52:53< Blueblaze> ok, bbl
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20091014 04:53:03< Aethaeryn> I had to do bible memory verses in my religion classes...
20091014 04:53:10< Aethaeryn> Yay private schools.
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20091014 05:18:45< meowreka> jesus shitting christ pidgin is a memory whore
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20091014 10:13:26< Ivanovic> moin
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20091014 17:48:30< vatzec> WESNOTH SHMESNOTH.
20091014 17:48:38< vatzec> (and that covers today conversations at #wesnoth)
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20091014 18:12:58 * _aD quickly takes notes shorthand for the minutes
20091014 18:13:04< _aD> Could you repeat the last part please?
20091014 18:14:25< Blarumyrran> at #wesnoth)
20091014 18:18:26< SekoIdiootti> lol
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20091014 20:44:22< jimmyc> is this the channel to ask help with the 1.76 client in jaunty?
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20091014 20:44:33< jimmyc> *1.7.6
20091014 20:44:35< cizra> yep
20091014 20:45:08< jimmyc> awesome, i'm fairly horribly at using terminal (i like package managers a lot) i know enough to usually get me into trouble
20091014 20:45:24< jimmyc> and i wasnt really understanding what binaries i needed to download and then how to install them into the proper locations
20091014 20:45:35< shadowmaster> what seems to eb the problem, jimmyc ?
20091014 20:45:36< jimmyc> also fuzzy on the wget command to download
20091014 20:45:51< jimmyc> if someone would be willing to help me i would be greatly appreciative
20091014 20:47:01< SonIcco> jimmyc: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothBinariesLinux
20091014 20:47:51< jimmyc> is that the walkthrough for 1.7.6 installing, etc?
20091014 20:47:55< jimmyc> I think i've been to that link
20091014 20:48:34< jimmyc> yeah it says go to the it-wesnoth page and the tuxfamily repository
20091014 20:49:14< jimmyc> i don't see 1.7.6 on that page only 1.7.5
20091014 20:50:26< SonIcco> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/CompilingWesnoth
20091014 20:51:39< SonIcco> http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.7.6/wesnoth-1.7.6.tar.bz2/download
20091014 20:51:41< jimmyc> gah... those are a ton of libraries
20091014 20:51:58< SonIcco> its the trunk version
20091014 20:52:03< cizra> umm.
20091014 20:52:20< cizra> I suspect for a newb it'd be easier to get a binary, SonIcco.
20091014 20:52:28< jimmyc> will i need to download all those libraries as a pre-requisite in the http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/CompilingWesnoth link?
20091014 20:52:34< cizra> So, jimmyc, lemme see if I can make it clearer to you.
20091014 20:52:45< cizra> jimmyc: I'd suggest against compiling, if you can find a deb or something.
20091014 20:55:09< shadowmaster> jimmyc: sudo apt-get build-dep wesnoth    should get you all the dependencies for building wesnoth 1.6 on jaunty
20091014 20:55:25< shadowmaster> and   sudo apt-get install build-essentials
20091014 20:55:34< cizra> shadowmaster: I'm going to walk him through installing the binary deb. Hang on.
20091014 20:56:12< shadowmaster> it's funny how many people have asked us about compiling Wesnoth 1.7.x on Ubuntu or Debian and nobody bothers to put some small pointer in the wiki..
20091014 20:56:43< shadowmaster> right, it is mixed in the same page with more general instructions
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20091014 21:03:27< shadowmaster> cizra: well, IME 3rd party binaries for any distribution tend to have some spurious exotic dependencies in them :)
20091014 21:03:42< cizra> hehe, dunno
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20091014 21:08:43< Soliton> i'd think the best would be to explain how to add debian unstable to the apt sources and pin wesnoth to that version.
20091014 21:09:14< shadowmaster> I thought mixing Debian and non-Debian repositories wasn't a good idea in general?
20091014 21:09:44< Soliton> probably, but then the only other choice is to compile yourself.
20091014 21:10:23< Soliton> using shady 3rd party repos is not a good idea IMO.
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20091014 21:10:54< Soliton> and as you said are just as likely to cause dependency trouble.
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20091014 22:20:36< sdschulze> Hi, I'm having graphics issues in Wesnoth... http://sdschulze.dnsalias.org/~soeren/wesnoth-shot.png
20091014 22:21:44< sdschulze> It happens both on my VIA UniChrome and my NeoMagic video card, but not on my nVidia card.
20091014 22:22:40< shadowmaster> um, I remember reading a post in User's forum about that before
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20091014 22:24:35< sdschulze> link?
20091014 22:24:36< shadowmaster> forum search being less than useful for me. :/
20091014 22:25:26< shadowmaster> I'm trying to find it.
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20091014 22:43:14< shadowmaster> sdschulze: by the way, tried upgrading video drivers?
20091014 22:43:33-!- Blarumyrran [n=minaise@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit []
20091014 22:43:54< shadowmaster> my desktop box has an onboard VIA Unichrome graphics controller and I never saw that glitch when running wesnoth there.
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20091014 22:45:47< shadowmaster> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22940&hilit=libpng , unfortunately it seems nobody found a solution...
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20091014 22:51:50< sdschulze> shadowmaster: I'm using the OpenChrome driver.
20091014 22:52:03< shadowmaster> I was using that too, hey :P
20091014 22:52:20< shadowmaster> but I don't know what revision - it was a 2007 one IIRC.
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20091014 22:57:48< sdschulze> The one computer even runs Ubuntu, the other one runs Debian.
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20091014 23:19:57< sdschulze> Another question... when Wesnoth runs in fullscreen mode, it catches all my keyboard input, which is quite annoying when I want to, say, adjust the volume of the speakers.
20091014 23:20:55< Soliton> luckily there is an easy fix. run it in windowed mode!
20091014 23:21:30< sdschulze> not when your laptop only has a 800x600 screen
20091014 23:22:14< Soliton> there is no visible difference between windowed mode and fullscreen if set it up right.
20091014 23:22:44< shadowmaster> like, disabling window borders for wesnoth in your VM so windowed mode can be as large as a full screen?
20091014 23:22:53< shadowmaster> er *window manager (WM)
20091014 23:24:33< Soliton> yeah, that's what i do.
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20091014 23:35:36< Aethaeryn> Anyone want to play my revized Gladiator Arena for 1.7?
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20091014 23:44:57< blarumyrran> I have 170 & 172 if either is okay
20091014 23:50:45< Aethaeryn> Eh, unfortunately, 1.7.x releases are incompatible with each other.
20091014 23:51:01< blarumyrran> ... I know
20091014 23:51:10< blarumyrran> Thats why I asked if you have one of those versions
20091014 23:51:22< Aethaeryn> I have them...
20091014 23:51:27< Aethaeryn> Not sure if my map will run on them.
20091014 23:55:20< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: It is.
20091014 23:55:34< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: But the multiplayer server requires 1.7.6
20091014 23:55:50< blarumyrran> K, ill host
20091014 23:56:01< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: Connect to server2.wesnoth.org?
20091014 23:56:30< Aethaeryn> that one works
20091014 23:56:54< Aethaeryn> < blarumyrran> K, ill host <= How can you host if I have the map? :S
20091014 23:57:05< blarumyrran> No?
20091014 23:57:11< blarumyrran> Host the server
20091014 23:57:18< blarumyrran> It doesnt work for me
20091014 23:58:16< blarumyrran> I dont understand, wesnothd refuses to work
20091014 23:58:25< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: blarumyrran go to Connect to Server and choose the second on the list.
20091014 23:58:36< blarumyrran> [00:57] <blarumyrran> No?
20091014 23:58:39< blarumyrran> [00:57] <blarumyrran> It doesnt work for me
20091014 23:58:41< Aethaeryn> bah
20091014 23:58:58< Aethaeryn> blarumyrran: server3?
--- Log closed Thu Oct 15 00:00:00 2009