--- Log opened Sun Nov 01 00:00:38 2009
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20091101 00:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 73 bugs, 243 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091101 00:30:52< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Hi, sorry, didn't notice you logging on.
20091101 00:30:58< Aethaeryn> Was preparing my current post.
20091101 00:31:12< Deusite> Salve
20091101 00:31:51< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Based on CTCP time, I think there's a 4 hour difference.
20091101 00:32:41< Deusite> 4 hours ahead or behind me?
20091101 00:32:50< Aethaeryn> behind, I'm east coast US.
20091101 00:33:30< Deusite> not too bad then.
20091101 00:33:41< Aethaeryn> Arguably, translating the menu items is harder than translating other things, since it has to be one or two words and it has to very specifically communicate a meaning that often didn't exist in Roman days.
20091101 00:33:58< Deusite> For credits I suggest grates. for the menu, meaning thanks.
20091101 00:34:14< Deusite> I really need a dictiionary
20091101 00:34:32< Aethaeryn> My dictionary won't arrive until Tuesday.
20091101 00:34:40< Aethaeryn> You can use the online one I'm using, but it's not very friendly in its interface.
20091101 00:35:06< Aethaeryn> Any of those stick out like a sore thumb to you? I really thought "Relinquere" was an odd use of word for "quit"
20091101 00:35:27< Deusite> http://archives.nd.edu/latgramm.htm I suggest that for now as a dictionary
20091101 00:35:41< Deusite> Exire is more appropriate
20091101 00:35:54< Aethaeryn> Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
20091101 00:36:19< Aethaeryn> I remember the annecdote of how "exit" entered the English language, through Shakespeare stage directions "exit" for singular and "exeunt" for plural.
20091101 00:37:40< Deusite> Now, how should these verbs be conjugated? Leave it as an infinitive or maybe the imperative?
20091101 00:37:46< Aethaeryn> I was thinking imperative.
20091101 00:37:55< Aethaeryn> This is what he currently uses for map editor: #~ msgstr "Recensor Chartarum Proelii pro Occidiseptentrione"
20091101 00:38:37< Aethaeryn> The editor was only included in the main program since 1.4, so it we could either use his "Recensor Chartarum" for the "Map Editor" on the menu or find a new one.
20091101 00:39:33< Deusite> looking up reconsor quickly it doesn't seem to fit.
20091101 00:39:41< stikonas> editor was included since 1.6, not 1.4
20091101 00:39:53< Aethaeryn> I'm thinking we should take the following approach to translation: (1) the main menu and everything else immediately visible because if pieces are in English you will right away think the translation is incomplete and not use it; (2) the races names; (3) the unit names (some don't seem to fit when I was looking at them)
20091101 00:40:38< Deusite> agreed. By visible I assume that includes the main map as well
20091101 00:40:46< Aethaeryn> After we have this, we should be able to divide labor between different campaigns and sections of the game, and just collaborate to check each other's work and for proper nouns (like Vesnotes)
20091101 00:41:13< Deusite> also agreed :P
20091101 00:41:50< Aethaeryn> This also "eases" us into the process, since we'll start with short phrases, determining the vocabulary of Vesnotes that needs to be added into the Latin vocabulary
20091101 00:42:02< Aethaeryn> Hopefully we'll finish at least (1) and (2) before the release of 1.8 in a few weeks, if not (3). Campaigns will be much more long term.
20091101 00:42:31< Deusite> Perhaps the mutliplayer strings in between 1 and 2
20091101 00:42:54< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Do you mind if I'm the maintainer (aka. the guy who edits the .po file in trunk and sends it to Ivanovic)?
20091101 00:43:05< Aethaeryn> There's no other big difference, it just means I try to keep up with SVN and all.
20091101 00:43:12< Deusite> Go for it.
20091101 00:43:39< Deusite> I don't even know how to compile the SVN
20091101 00:43:53< shadowmaster> what translation is this?
20091101 00:43:56< Aethaeryn> Latin.
20091101 00:44:06< Aethaeryn> Deusite: http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?cartography <- I'm thinking we should use this pun for the Map Editor.
20091101 00:44:20< Aethaeryn> Since cartographers make maps, and the map editor makes maps.
20091101 00:44:40< Aethaeryn> so chartographia, chartographiae
20091101 00:44:51< Deusite> Nice catch.
20091101 00:47:44< Aethaeryn> Okay, that covers the missing menu items.
20091101 00:47:58< Aethaeryn> Anything else seem "wrong" other than quit?
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20091101 00:48:50< Deusite> I can't see where the translation for preferences comes from
20091101 00:49:33< Aethaeryn> http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?Impostationes
20091101 00:49:37< Aethaeryn> what the hell is that supposed to mean?
20091101 00:50:51< Deusite> No idea, all I can think of is the verb malo,malle,mallui
20091101 00:51:08< Aethaeryn> Deusite: http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?choice <- how about this?
20091101 00:51:31< Aethaeryn> or http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?option
20091101 00:52:19< Deusite> of those optionis
20091101 00:52:32< Deusite> The second lot are mainly used for a kilitary meaning
20091101 00:52:39< Deusite> *military
20091101 00:53:25< Aethaeryn> so optiones?
20091101 00:54:10< Deusite> for now yes.
20091101 00:54:55< Aethaeryn> Deusite: what did you want to use for credits?
20091101 00:55:04< Aethaeryn> Grates?
20091101 00:55:20< Deusite> Yes, personally I prefer your suggestion
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20091101 00:56:59< Aethaeryn> Deusite: agnitiones (for recognition)?
20091101 00:57:25< Aethaeryn> If this is it, I can recompile and check it, and then we can see what other issues there are.
20091101 00:57:45< Deusite> Yes, how about electi for preferences?
20091101 00:57:49< Aethaeryn> Hopefully I can send an email to Ivanovic sometime tonight with the menus at least fixed.
20091101 00:58:06< Deusite> http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=electus&ending=
20091101 00:59:21< Aethaeryn> hmmm, perhaps
20091101 00:59:33< Aethaeryn> We can go with that for now.
20091101 00:59:51< Aethaeryn> If a better definition hits us, especially when we go to more advanced things like tooltips, we can always go back and change it
20091101 01:00:24< Deusite> Perhaps leave the strings as 'fuzzy' for now
20091101 01:01:08< Deusite> I'm not overly keen on stipenium for campaigns either, it implies you have to play them.
20091101 01:01:23< Aethaeryn> recompiling to make sure I didn't screw anything up
20091101 01:02:41< Deusite> Militia fits campaigns much better http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?campaign
20091101 01:02:52< Deusite> militiae even
20091101 01:03:00< Aethaeryn> Deusite: did you get my PM? Need your name/email for file header for the credits.
20091101 01:03:23< Deusite> I'll send it to you now
20091101 01:03:26< Aethaeryn> hmm...
20091101 01:03:45< Aethaeryn> good point on that
20091101 01:03:58< Aethaeryn> A collaboration is much easier than one person for translating :)
20091101 01:04:46< shadowm_laptop> foo
20091101 01:04:54< shadowm_laptop> argh
20091101 01:05:16< Deusite> I've sent a PM with my email
20091101 01:05:20< Aethaeryn> Deusite: real name too, unless you want only your user name in credits
20091101 01:05:46< Deusite> That be Thomas Hockings
20091101 01:06:21< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Are you sure we should set preferences as fuzzy? If it's fuzzy it doesn't compile as Latin...
20091101 01:06:27< Aethaeryn> So if it's useable, we should stick with it.
20091101 01:07:41< Deusite> OK, non-fuzzy it is. I'm sure there's a better word for preferences though. 
20091101 01:07:55< Deusite> What's your thoughts for militiae for campaigns?
20091101 01:08:08< Aethaeryn> I like it.
20091101 01:08:20< Aethaeryn> Some of the definitions we came up with sound better than the English words :)
20091101 01:08:26< Aethaeryn> Since we had to find synonyms to translate it
20091101 01:08:33< Deusite> Good stuff :)
20091101 01:08:41< Aethaeryn> We just need Help/Previous/Next
20091101 01:09:49< Aethaeryn> For the tip of the day section
20091101 01:09:49< Aethaeryn> then all the main buttons work.
20091101 01:10:34< Deusite> Before that I want to suggest rudimentus as tutorial. http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?lesson
20091101 01:10:57< Deusite> help would be auxilium
20091101 01:11:29< Aethaeryn> Deusite: rudimentum?
20091101 01:11:52< Aethaeryn> rudimenti, it would be, since it's two scenarios.
20091101 01:12:20< Deusite> It's lumped into the same package though
20091101 01:12:34< Aethaeryn> so you'd be against plural?
20091101 01:13:21< Deusite> Yes, rudimentum doesn't really work in the plural. It starts to sound like training instead of a tutorial imo
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20091101 01:13:39< Aethaeryn> Alright.
20091101 01:14:22< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Did you agree to "Vesnotes" or do you think "Vesnothes" is better?
20091101 01:14:42< Aethaeryn> I'm leaning toward the former, but if you're strongly opinionated, we can go for the latter.
20091101 01:14:53< Aethaeryn> The former seems more "latin-ified" since they didn't have a "th"
20091101 01:15:31< Deusite> I think Vesnothes. Since it's from a different language than the Wesnothians.
20091101 01:16:32< Aethaeryn> Yes, but if it's going to be used as their main country name, over the thousand years or whatever they'd have either gained use of "th" or dropped it for "Vesnotes" even if it started as "Vesnothes"
20091101 01:16:45< Deusite> Fair enough
20091101 01:17:06< Aethaeryn> At least, imo. It'd be like being the Ünited States
20091101 01:17:44< Deusite> The official name may still retain the original spelling, like latin as opposed to vulgar latin
20091101 01:18:02< Deusite> I don't particularly mind either way
20091101 01:18:17< Aethaeryn> Okay...
20091101 01:18:25< Aethaeryn> Well, we're not doing a localization image or anything...
20091101 01:18:39< Aethaeryn> So I can leave it as "Vesnotes" for now, but open to changing it, like preferences
20091101 01:19:01< Deusite> OK
20091101 01:19:18< Aethaeryn> now the only two buttons remaining are previous/next unless you think other things on the main menu need replacing
20091101 01:19:22< Deusite> For previous and next, we could have anterior and secundus
20091101 01:19:44< Deusite> Anything but prior, since it means previous and next :P
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20091101 01:21:03< Deusite> And restituere should be changed to the imperative.
20091101 01:21:06< Aethaeryn> Okay, there's one more under titlescreen button
20091101 01:21:12< Aethaeryn> that's marked as fuzzy
20091101 01:21:14< Aethaeryn> "help wesnoth"
20091101 01:22:08< Aethaeryn> Deusite: imperative is just dropping the "re" right?
20091101 01:22:24< Aethaeryn> so restitue and exi
20091101 01:23:32< Deusite> yes, in this case
20091101 01:23:45< Aethaeryn> Okay, it's been a few years. I'm doing this project to touch up on Latin.
20091101 01:23:59< Aethaeryn> Since it's a pitty to have taken up to Latin V in high school and not *actually* know Latin.
20091101 01:24:51< Deusite> Yes, I hate having to drop French and German.
20091101 01:25:07< Deusite> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Latin-Grammar-Reference-Quickstudy-Academic/dp/1572228350 this thing is brilliant for a reference guide on grammar
20091101 01:25:12< Aethaeryn> Last one, then?
20091101 01:25:53< Deusite> Last one?
20091101 01:25:55< Aethaeryn> haha, you have a strong currency so it's cheaper in America (same price) :P
20091101 01:25:59< Aethaeryn> "Help Wesnoth"
20091101 01:26:37< Aethaeryn> 5 dollars vs. 5 pounds.
20091101 01:27:20< Aethaeryn> Deusite: "Help Wesnoth" is the last one.
20091101 01:27:48< Deusite> auxilere Vesnotem
20091101 01:28:16< Deusite> I'm not 100% sure what a deponent imperative looks like 
20091101 01:28:46< Aethaeryn> Well, I don't even see it on the main menu
20091101 01:28:48< Deusite> Death to the dollar! :P
20091101 01:28:51< Aethaeryn> so it's possibly a relic...
20091101 01:29:11< Deusite> "help Wesnoth by sending us information"
20091101 01:29:29< Aethaeryn> Okay...
20091101 01:29:37< Aethaeryn> Now I'm going to recompile, and then we're done for now if it shows up.
20091101 01:29:45< Aethaeryn> and I'll email today's updates.
20091101 01:29:51< Deusite> That's the text from hovering on the letter on the bottom right corner btw
20091101 01:29:57< Aethaeryn> I have to go rather soon, you can work on the race names and a few unit titles that seem wrong if you want
20091101 01:30:00< Deusite> on the main menu
20091101 01:30:31< Deusite> I need to go anyway. Sleeeeeeep
20091101 01:30:35< Aethaeryn> okay
20091101 01:30:38< Aethaeryn> this good for now?
20091101 01:30:52< Deusite> Yes
20091101 01:31:04< Aethaeryn> Yay.
20091101 01:32:27< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Just post any ideas you have for the rest of the translation on the thread and we can hopefully finish the menu next time we're both online.
20091101 01:33:26< Aethaeryn> 'night
20091101 01:33:41< Deusite> Bye
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20091101 01:49:51< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Email sent.
20091101 01:50:06< CIA-58> ai0867 * r39550 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Fix changelog spelling
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20091101 04:12:28< esr> silene:  When you're on again, the lua version of MODIFY_UNIT failed.  See http://pastebin.com/m255c8991
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20091101 04:48:48< Getty> totally stupid question without any knowledge of the theme, would it be in any way wise to "reuse" WML for another SDL game which is more or less same orientated?
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20091101 04:54:40< Sirp> Getty: maybe. Depends what you mean by "more or less". :)
20091101 04:54:57< Sirp> it'd be more like "reuse the Wesnoth engine" than "reuse WML" though
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20091101 05:12:30< Getty> Sirp: You know Ultima V ?
20091101 05:14:11< Getty> Sirp: definitly true about reusing Wesnoth Engine
20091101 05:14:48< Getty> Sirp: probably stupid idea at all to think about it, just curious if Wesnoth Engine/WML is considerable for game development indepedent of Wesnoth game style
20091101 05:16:43< Getty> Sirp: also interesting, has Wesnoth a "world" that should be considered to be interesting for another game
20091101 05:18:57< Getty> or to break it down, i'm just interested to stick together some stuff to make a nice ultima V style MMORPG, and anything i can "reuse" is nice
20091101 05:19:24< Getty> i cant copy the ultima V world sadly, but if there is another open source world i should consider diving into this world
20091101 05:28:00< Getty> Sirp: generally just a compliment, that wesnoth is really a good organized and good made game, its really a reference for open source development
20091101 05:28:37< Getty> Sirp: and i saw many many many games and analyzed the game organisation
20091101 05:28:48< Getty> game development organisation
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20091101 05:58:14< Sirp> Getty: well thank you. :)
20091101 05:58:29< Sirp> Getty: I have not played Ultima V
20091101 05:58:36< Getty> Sirp: shame on you
20091101 05:58:52< Getty> its core culture
20091101 06:00:09< Getty> technical its just a plain tile orientated RPG, like bards tale or many others
20091101 06:00:09< Sirp> mmmmhmmmmm
20091101 06:00:21< Sirp> I have not played bards tale either
20091101 06:00:22< Getty> but the game just kicked ass
20091101 06:00:25< Getty> dude.................
20091101 06:00:30< Getty> :)
20091101 06:00:59< Getty> you know any ultima part?
20091101 06:01:31< Sirp> I have not played any version of Ultima
20091101 06:01:32< CIA-58> esr * r39551 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/ (9 files in 3 dirs): 
20091101 06:01:32< CIA-58> Fix bug #14649 (SotBE - losing Flar'Tar and Al'Brock in "The Dwarvish
20091101 06:01:32< CIA-58> Stand" messes up the following scenario) by making Flar'Tar and Al'Brock heroes
20091101 06:01:32< CIA-58> who must survive from scenartio 12 to the last battle. We can't use the
20091101 06:01:32< CIA-58> rename approach as for Thelarion and DarStang because the orc generals' names
20091101 06:01:33< CIA-58> appear in the story text for 18.
20091101 06:02:08< Getty> oh man :)
20091101 06:02:22< Getty> Ultima is... i cant tell it, its a genius story, genius games
20091101 06:02:40< Getty> U5, U7 was really pusher for the game industry
20091101 06:04:59< Sirp> mmmhmmmm
20091101 06:08:37< Getty> are there moments where you dont say mmmhmmmm? ;)
20091101 06:10:09< Sirp> yes, most of the time other than these two times I said it
20091101 06:10:20< Getty> :D
20091101 06:10:39< Sirp> there are just many people who come and tell me that Wesnoth is similar/derives inspiration from/has similarities too, was "obviously inspired by" xyz epic game that I have never played
20091101 06:10:52< Getty> i dont said this
20091101 06:10:58< Getty> i just said U5 is an awesome game
20091101 06:11:01< Getty> :)
20091101 06:11:39< Sirp> uh-huh
20091101 06:11:46< Sirp> I think when it was released I didn't have a system capable of playing it
20091101 06:12:02< Getty> its a C64 game (there was the most success of it)
20091101 06:12:16< Getty> released 21 years ago ;)
20091101 06:13:05< Getty> 8 disk sides
20091101 06:13:09< Getty> sometimes you had to be a DJ to manage it
20091101 06:13:10< Getty> ;)
20091101 06:15:00< Sirp> right, I never had a C64
20091101 06:15:29< Sirp> I lived in Australia. I had a Microbee.
20091101 06:15:38< Getty> Microbee? never heard of this
20091101 06:15:59< Getty> C64 was my first computer
20091101 06:16:34< Getty> and i play even today regulary C64 games, they are just the best
20091101 06:17:01< Getty> so many games on C64 inspired so many people for the game development :)
20091101 06:17:30< Sirp> I am aware of that; but I never owned a C64. :)
20091101 06:17:33< Sirp> I owned a Microbee
20091101 06:18:14< Getty> let me give you a screenshot
20091101 06:18:44< Getty> http://www.asamakabino.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ultima5-01.png
20091101 06:18:56< Getty> i think the gamestyle is very clear
20091101 06:21:14-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 72 bugs, 243 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091101 06:32:56< Getty> microbee is b/w... hardcore :)
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20091101 09:37:51< silene> esr: sorry, my mistake, it should have been: H.modify_unit(cfg[1][2], cfg[2][2])
20091101 09:38:32< silene> or, for the backward-compatible version: H.modify_unit(cfg[1][2], { [cfg.var] = cfg.value })
20091101 09:38:40< silene> and this time, i tested it
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20091101 11:25:21< CIA-58> ivanovic * r39552 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Latin translation
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20091101 11:48:55< mordante> servus
20091101 12:02:53< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20091101 12:03:33< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20091101 12:03:49< mordante> Ivanovic, going to release the beta today?
20091101 12:03:54< Ivanovic> no
20091101 12:05:40< CIA-58> silene * r39553 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Split code a bit.
20091101 12:05:55< CIA-58> silene * r39554 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Passed event arguments as vconfig.
20091101 12:05:59< CIA-58> silene * r39555 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fixed passing of second unit weapon to event handlers.
20091101 12:06:02< CIA-58> silene * r39556 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Added small test for argument passing to Lua code.
20091101 12:06:17< mordante> a plan when you will?
20091101 12:06:29< Ivanovic> no
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20091101 13:15:39< CIA-58> mordante * r39557 /trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20091101 13:15:39< CIA-58> Add better protection for images not fitting.
20091101 13:15:39< CIA-58> Some UMC uses listbox rowes with less than 20 pixes which caused images
20091101 13:15:39< CIA-58> to be resized to x - 20 which is negative and resulted into huge
20091101 13:15:39< CIA-58> positive numbers.
20091101 13:15:40< CIA-58> Modified the WML to return 0 in these cases and also added protection in
20091101 13:15:44< CIA-58> the engine to ignore those images. (The latter is needed since people
20091101 13:24:47< mordante> esr, around?
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20091101 13:58:13< mordante> I'm off bye
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20091101 14:29:08< esr> silene: still there?
20091101 14:43:27< stikonas> Ivanovic: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14654, should it be marked as won't fix?
20091101 14:54:33< silene> esr: yes
20091101 14:55:24< esr> I didn't understand what you meant by "backward-compatible version" in your list comment to me.
20091101 14:56:42< esr> s/list/last/
20091101 15:00:00< silene> esr: we can't have both multiple assignments and deep assignments (e.g. "MODIFY_UNIT ... status.poisoned yes"); if we want to keep the current behavior (deep assignment), we have to use a slightly different macro: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d65a58965
20091101 15:00:51< esr> The current behavior being deep assignments?
20091101 15:01:06< silene> yes
20091101 15:03:20< esr> I think mainline uses both - I'm looking at a multiple-assignment case in HttT::Crosseoads now.  This neans we cannot switch to the lua version before the pre-1.8 feature freeze is off, because we'd have to withdrwa one capability or the other.
20091101 15:04:05< silene> esr: current wml macros don't work with multiple assignments; if the scenario uses it, it is broken
20091101 15:04:48< esr> Hoo.  Well, that would explain the brokenness in Croosseoads, then.
20091101 15:06:22< silene> esr: i don't see any multiple assign in crossroads; i count three modify_unit: two modify only "moves", and one modify only "role"
20091101 15:07:04< esr> Checking...
20091101 15:07:40< esr> Ah, you're right, my eyeballs tripped over the comma in the fiktering code.
20091101 15:07:56< esr> s/fiktering/filtering/
20091101 15:08:21< esr> You've tested the deep-assignment version?
20091101 15:09:01< silene> yes
20091101 15:10:22< esr> Commit it, please, with a note in the doc comment moting that multiple assignments fail.  I'll check mainline for those and fix them.
20091101 15:11:07< Ivanovic> stikonas: ask silene
20091101 15:12:10< stikonas> silene: if you don't want to do any changes regarding https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14654, then it probably should be marked as won't fix.
20091101 15:13:21< silene> stikonas: it's not that i don't want to do the change; it's that it is an interface change, not just a bug fix; so i won't do it unless there is kind of a consensus (i personally don't care one way or the other)
20091101 15:17:02< esr> silene: I'm OK with you fixing that. 
20091101 15:18:39< esr> Oh crap...on the oyther hand, we probly should *not* replace the implementation of MODIFY_UNIT after all. It's not buggy., just slow.
20091101 15:19:08< esr> Sorry, I shouldn't have asked you to commit that.
20091101 15:22:19< Ivanovic> silene: would it be possible to "just" use the leaders name for that?
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20091101 15:22:31< Ivanovic> silene: since that should a) be translateable and b) work for mp, too
20091101 15:23:06< silene> what about sides without leaders? (or with multiple "canrecruit" units?)
20091101 15:25:31< Ivanovic> silene: IIRC "canrecruit" is not the same as "is leader"
20091101 15:25:36< Ivanovic> so this should not be the problem
20091101 15:26:37< silene> it is the same; at least this is what the "find_leader" function of the engine believes
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20091101 15:35:20< Ivanovic> :(
20091101 15:35:29< Ivanovic> hi Sirp
20091101 15:35:58< Ivanovic> Sirp: you saw what i wrote you in #wesnoth-mentor about two days ago regarding google payment?
20091101 15:37:17< Sirp> hi Ivanovic 
20091101 15:37:55< Sirp> ummm I think so, but I'm not sure it contained all the details I needed. What is the very first thing I need? (a PO#?) How do I get it exactly?
20091101 15:38:24< Ivanovic> lets do this in #wesnoth-mentor
20091101 15:38:28< Sirp> okay
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20091101 15:43:50< esr> zookeeper2: ping
20091101 15:49:12< zookeeper2> esr, yes? i'll be afk for a while but not too long..
20091101 16:01:02< esr> zookeeper2: Have you looked at   #14656 	side X turn events not suppressing ambusher moves in HttT::Crossroads?
20091101 16:01:38< esr> I think I've diagnosed the problem, but I don't know how to fix it.  I thought you might.
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20091101 16:23:27< zookeeper2> esr, no, i'll take a look..
20091101 16:23:39< esr> Thanks.
20091101 16:25:34< zookeeper2> ah, right, makes sense
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20091101 16:26:52< zookeeper> i'll fix it
20091101 16:27:53< esr> Thanks.
20091101 16:40:38< CIA-58> zookeeper * r39558 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/07_Crossroads.cfg: Should fix bug #14656.
20091101 16:54:13< zookeeper> if there was a check for the current side number if an ai turn event, then that event generally should have been converted to a turn refresh event instead
20091101 16:54:53< zookeeper> since side X turn can't do everything ai turn could (for example tweak the units' moves left)
20091101 16:59:20< CIA-58> zookeeper * r39559 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/14.The_Drowned_Plains.cfg: Same fix as in r39558 for EI's 'Drowned Plains' as well.
20091101 16:59:28< zookeeper> i wonder if any other scenarios are affected :/
20091101 17:01:49< zookeeper> argh, several
20091101 17:06:51< zookeeper> namely r39160, r39163 and r39164
20091101 17:09:38< zookeeper> i'll be nice and fix those, too
20091101 17:15:35< CIA-58> zookeeper * r39560 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Reverted r39160, r39163 and r39164 and simply replaced "ai turn" with "turn refresh".
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20091101 17:34:32< zookeeper> Crab_, check the log ^
20091101 17:34:37< Crab_> ok
20091101 17:34:53< zookeeper> some of the ai turn conversions were a bit careless ;)
20091101 17:35:55< zookeeper> see, none of the other turn events except turn refresh (and ai turn) trigger late enough to allow you to for example change the units' remaining movement
20091101 17:36:33< zookeeper> so if the event involves something like that, it's better to just make it a turn refresh event instead
20091101 17:36:45< Crab_> yes, I see
20091101 17:36:52< zookeeper> i fixed all the cases i found, i'm not sure if there are more in mainline
20091101 17:39:48< Crab_> zookeeper: will try to seek if there are any more uses...
20091101 17:40:20< zookeeper> great
20091101 17:40:51< Crab_> zookeeper: btw, what about "side X turn refresh" and "side X turn Y refresh" events :) ?
20091101 17:41:00< zookeeper> the thought crossed my mind ;)
20091101 17:41:13< zookeeper> hmm
20091101 17:41:16< zookeeper> not needed
20091101 17:41:19< Crab_> why ?
20091101 17:41:36< zookeeper> you can use [event] name=side X turn [event] name=turn refresh
20091101 17:42:07< zookeeper> i could have fixed all of those cases using that, i guess. didn't really think of that.
20091101 17:42:22< Crab_> yes, true
20091101 17:43:17< zookeeper> if you want to go fix those cases using that, be my guest. i don't really think it's worth the trouble.
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20091101 17:48:28< Crab_> zookeeper: also note that not all other scenarios were to be fixed (since in some scenarios, ai turn was used incorrectly in the first place). but this, too, doesn't matter much.
20091101 17:54:39< boucman> Crab_: i'm looking at a game right now, and I had an idea for a possible "quick improvement" for the AI with the tools we have now...
20091101 17:54:49< Crab_> yes ?
20091101 17:54:56< boucman> forcing units with backstab to play last (more oprtunities to backstab at the end
20091101 17:57:12< zookeeper> well, could be less too, since the other units might have killed some enemies?
20091101 17:57:56< boucman> zookeeper: if they were killed, backstabbing probably wasn't that usefull
20091101 17:58:09< boucman> it's more a "trick" than a strategy, but it might help
20091101 17:58:44< boucman> it could probably work with skirms too (wall units dead, more chances to reach the squishy ones in the back)
20091101 17:58:44< Crab_> boucman: problem here. imagine if we have enemy E, and 2 units, A and B. 
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20091101 17:59:12< Crab_> B is melee backstabber, A is ranged, E is ranged
20091101 17:59:23< Crab_> let E be low on hp
20091101 17:59:38< boucman> k
20091101 18:00:07< Crab_> and, if B->E will result in a kill with minimal hp loss, then forcing B to go last will make A attack E, and take heavy retaliation damage
20091101 18:00:34< boucman> Crab_: i didn't say it was perfect... 
20091101 18:00:54< boucman> I see it as a way to make AI overall more efficiant without dealing into very complex algorithms...
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20091101 18:05:01< Crab_> boucman: well, it's possible to do, yes, and test which ai wins more...
20091101 18:07:23< Crab_> to do this, I need to make some small refactorings (move evaluation of attack rating into 'attacks' aspect) and fork  testing_ai_default::aspect_attacks 
20091101 18:08:39< Crab_> then, we can "slightly penaltize" the rating of non-backstabbing attacks of backstabbers
20091101 18:08:48< boucman> ok
20091101 18:09:02< boucman> I thought we had everything in place, but that's fine
20091101 18:10:16< Crab_> well, it's simply 'move attack_analysis::rating function to aspect_attacks'
20091101 18:13:17< Crab_> we can even skip that (if we only do post-processing of ratings)
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20091101 18:29:47< Crab_> boucman: I'll try to do that, somewhen on the coming week.
20091101 18:30:11< boucman> Crab_: only if you think it's a good idea
20091101 18:30:18< boucman> i'm not your mentor anymore :)
20091101 18:30:40< Crab_> boucman: yes, but the idea is concrete enough to be tried.
20091101 18:31:08< boucman> yes, we're sort of missing concrete ideas for AI...
20091101 18:31:17< boucman> i wonder how we could collect those...
20091101 18:31:20< Crab_> and, even if the change cripples the backstabber-user ai, it'll be a positive result
20091101 18:32:09< Crab_> since, this will prove that messing with attack evaluation rating alone can make the ai noticeably more/less efficient.
20091101 18:32:43< boucman> i'd be suprised if messing with attack evaluation didn't change AI efficiency :P
20091101 18:32:46< Crab_> and, this will allow to ask various people for C++ pseudocode of calculation of attack rating.
20091101 18:33:52< Crab_> since it's pretty easy to code - take a list of attacks, and sort them directly or by assigning each a 'rating'
20091101 18:33:56< zookeeper2> is anyone working on the behaviour of AI leaders which presumably has been getting sillier lately?
20091101 18:34:23< Crab_> zookeeper2: there was new aspect added to control the aggression of leaders separately.
20091101 18:34:41< zookeeper2> i mean, they do completely dorky things like not attack with ranged weapons against melee-only enemies, but instead just sit there when surrounded...
20091101 18:35:13< zookeeper2> i think i've lately seen several people say AI leaders do silly things
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20091101 18:35:36< Crab_> zookeeper: savegame will be a good thing to have :)
20091101 18:35:49< boucman> zookeeper: 1.6 or 1.7
20091101 18:35:54< zookeeper> 1.7
20091101 18:36:02< boucman> hmm
20091101 18:37:05< Crab_> zookeeper: well, I think that I know what happens with those leaders
20091101 18:37:43< Crab_> firstly, they have (by default), aggression=-4.0 (this is tunable since ~1.7.6 via 'leader_aggression' aspect)
20091101 18:39:07< Crab_> secondly, if number_of_possible_recruits_to_force_recruit is >=0.01  and the leader has gold, then the leader will skip combat phase because there's some slim chance that he'll be able to get away with recruitment
20091101 18:39:56< Crab_> thirdly, many leaders are made passive nowadays, so they do nothing on purpose.
20091101 18:40:47< Crab_> fourthly, sometimes the leader thinks that it's better to do nothing and heal 2hp for doing nothing.
20091101 18:41:18< Crab_> fifthly, there might be a bug in desperate_attack routines which not allow the leader to make a attack if surrounded and unable to retreat to recruit/heal/etc
20091101 18:41:19< Crab_> -
20091101 18:42:41< Crab_> a good save where leader does 'not attack with ranged weapons against melee-only enemies, but instead just sit there when surrounded' might allow me to spot #5
20091101 18:44:30< Crab_> for example, " number_of_possible_recruits_to_force_recruit -> 0 " and " leader_aggression -> something_high_enough " will make an ai leader quite aggressive
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20091101 18:46:05< Crab_> zookeeper: also, rca-based ai does not have to deal 'skip combat phase with leader, because recruitment is preferable' hacks, so it's generally less buggy wtr leader behavior.
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20091101 18:50:33< boucman> so basically, we need a save :)
20091101 18:51:52< Crab_> yes
20091101 18:52:00< Crab_> or a how-to-reproduce
20091101 18:52:26< Crab_> (there are bugs which are not reproducible from a save :) )
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20091101 20:07:47< chains> I wonder why http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UsefulLinks links are nofollowed?
20091101 20:08:08< chains> nofollow is bad =)
20091101 20:10:22< chains> I assume it's an over site. No follow was implemented to fight comment spam, but Google has sense reversed it's policy on nofollow, nofollow links now hurt your link juice while removing all value for the linked site.
20091101 20:10:27< shadowmaster> probably an atispambot measure.
20091101 20:10:29< chains> Both linker and linkee lose :) 
20091101 20:10:31< shadowmaster> *anti
20091101 20:10:41< chains> As I understand it this page isn't editable by spambots?
20091101 20:10:52< chains> oversight* not oversite :P 
20091101 20:11:06< shadowmaster> no idea, anyway the nofollow specification doesn't come from the wiki markup
20091101 20:11:28< shadowmaster> it may come from the mediawiki config (no idea about this piece of crap tbh)
20091101 20:11:44< chains> nofollow = link juice disappears into thin air.
20091101 20:11:50 * shadowmaster goes to summon the power of donuts.
20091101 20:11:53< chains> Its being added because they are "external" links I believe
20091101 20:13:03< Crab_> yes
20091101 20:13:32< Crab_> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgNoFollowLinks
20091101 20:13:53< Crab_> we can also set http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgNoFollowDomainExceptions to allow *.wesnoth.org to be without nofollow=
20091101 20:16:34< Crab_> but, this'll require mediawiki upgrade from current version (1.12)
20091101 20:20:48< chains> or a better solution
20091101 20:20:54< chains> make the links page outside of media wiki?
20091101 20:21:09< chains> make it like the index page on wesnothl.org instead?
20091101 20:21:30< Crab_> chains: why this is better ?
20091101 20:21:48< Crab_> 'page on a wiki' is easily editable, so it's easy to keep the list up-to-date
20091101 20:21:51< chains> well because these links aren't all to wesnoth.org
20091101 20:22:02< chains> so nofollow change for *.wesnoth.org won't fix the loss. 
20091101 20:22:43< chains> I'm interested because I'd like to see the wesnoth ladder actually get finished sometime before I die =) 
20091101 20:22:48< Crab_> chains: it'll fix the most of it. and, its possible to disable this for a group of domains, as well.
20091101 20:22:54< chains> Which would go a lot faster if it had developers other than eye :) 
20091101 20:23:08< chains> ahh well that would work as well :) 
20091101 20:24:08< Crab_> another hack is 'protect the page, and hack MW to disable ref=nofollow for protected pages'
20091101 20:24:50< chains> I imagine you guys get a lot of spam link drops?
20091101 20:25:10< Crab_> but, 'no nofollow for specific domains' is better because it'll be so on *any* page where that link is mentioned
20091101 20:25:39 * chains nods
20091101 20:26:36< Crab_> chains: from time to time. see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Special:Log/block
20091101 20:29:04< chains> wow man :) 
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20091101 21:21:41< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: when sending me updated files *please* follow the translation wiki page
20091101 21:22:05< Ivanovic> and consider working with some specific po file editor like poedit, this will prevent you from "fixing" strings that are not used anyway
20091101 21:22:40< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: there is a reason why I ask for sending the files in some archive
20091101 21:23:07< Ivanovic> that is: when stuff is sent in an archive it is close to impossible that the file encoding gets broken, which otherwise *might* happen in mails
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20091101 21:28:37< Zarel> I haven't seen tsi here in ages.
20091101 21:28:40< Zarel> Where is he? :/
20091101 21:28:51< esr> He was here yesterday.
20091101 21:29:27< loonycyborg> He is obviously killed by insane utility bot :P
20091101 21:31:11< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: okay, sorry.
20091101 21:34:29< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Downloaded poedit.
20091101 21:39:11< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: if you find some latin dic you should directly have spellchecking in poedit via aspell
20091101 21:39:18< Ivanovic> IMO a nice thing to have, too
20091101 21:39:19< Ivanovic> ;)
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20091101 21:46:50< stikonas> but poedit's line unwrapping is annoying
20091101 21:49:35< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Spellcheckers don't catch everything in an inflected language. Just caught an embarrassing typo in the title earlier today.
20091101 21:49:54< Aethaeryn> I didn't decline "Vesnothes" for some reason, even though I could've sworn I did. :S
20091101 21:49:59< Ivanovic> not everything, but *a lot*
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20091101 22:09:23< Deusite> Aethaeryn: are you around?
20091101 22:10:46< CIA-61> silene * r39561 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Copied unit instead of referencing it, since the recall list is volatile. (Fix for bug #14642.)
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20091101 22:17:30< Aethaeryn> Deusite: yes
20091101 22:17:55< Deusite> Right, perhaps we can continue with the translation
20091101 22:17:58< Aethaeryn> Sorry, was following (American) football... I'm in a really close fantasy football league.
20091101 22:18:24< Aethaeryn> I'm tied for first, playing the guy who I'm tied with, so whoever wins this week (the only time we go up against each other) is winning in the league.
20091101 22:19:00< Aethaeryn> The game I was really following just ended.
20091101 22:19:08< Deusite> OK, so what's next to translate?
20091101 22:19:15< Aethaeryn> Well, I just caught a major typo
20091101 22:19:51< Aethaeryn> even though I wrote Proelium pro Vesnote everywhere else, I left Vestnotes undeclined in the actual translation, where it counts. 
20091101 22:19:51< Deusite> So I heard, though I can still only see the old .po file
20091101 22:19:59< Aethaeryn> *Vesnotes
20091101 22:20:37< Aethaeryn> I'm working on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImageLocalization#BfW_Logo
20091101 22:20:55< Aethaeryn> Coincidentally, the example has "Vesnot" which isn't too different from "Vesnote"
20091101 22:21:55< Aethaeryn> Deusite: If you want to update the tooltips for the main menu while I work on the localization image, I can check your work.
20091101 22:22:04< Aethaeryn> Alternatively, you could move onto the interface.
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20091101 22:22:47< Deusite> I'll try the tooltips.
20091101 22:22:49< Aethaeryn> Deusite: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=la&version=trunk <- this is what we're working on. Click on the package (for instance "Wesnoth" or "Wesnoth-editor") and you can view the file
20091101 22:23:12< Aethaeryn> the only difference thus far is that I fixed a bunch of instances of "Vesnotes" as "Vesnote"
20091101 22:24:22< Deusite> The first issue of course is what to translate for tooltip
20091101 22:24:55< Aethaeryn> Is it ever actually used?
20091101 22:26:09< Aethaeryn> Deusite: go to the line titled "#: src/titlescreen.cpp:442"
20091101 22:26:32< Aethaeryn> "Start a tutorial..." is the part where we're continuing.
20091101 22:28:26< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: http://img266.yfrog.com/img266/128/bfwlogola2.png <- is this the kind of spacing you're looking for?
20091101 22:29:30< Aethaeryn> Deusite: At the right part of the file?
20091101 22:30:01< Deusite> Yes, starting it now: Ad rudimentum, ut lusum...
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20091101 22:30:34< Aethaeryn> ah yes, ut clauses...
20091101 22:31:20< Deusite> Ad rudimentum ire, ut ludum consuescere.
20091101 22:32:24< Deusite> I'm borrowing the ad+ acc from the original. I'm not sure is a more literal translation is better.
20091101 22:34:11< Deusite> maybe rudimentum incipi is better
20091101 22:34:21< Aethaeryn> so "start the tutorial" is literally "go to first lessons"?
20091101 22:34:44< Aethaeryn> Yeah, I thik "incipi" is better.
20091101 22:35:09< Aethaeryn> The old translation used "school" I think...
20091101 22:35:14< Aethaeryn> So it made more sense to literally go to it.
20091101 22:36:03< Deusite> Incipi it is, I'll try to search in Perseus for any latinisms.
20091101 22:37:37< Deusite> Start a new single player campaign is next
20091101 22:38:24< Aethaeryn> I wish I could find my 501 Latin Verbs. It really is a useful reference. Just recently moved though so no chance of finding it.
20091101 22:38:51< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Did you see the localization image, btw?
20091101 22:39:02< Aethaeryn> Don't want to do the effects until it's ready.
20091101 22:39:16< Deusite> Yes, looks OK 
20091101 22:40:53< stikonas> Aethaeryn: have you tried to put all 3 words in one line and compare two logos?
20091101 22:42:46< Aethaeryn> stikonas: It's too wide at font side 42
20091101 22:42:53< Aethaeryn> and I'm not sure I'm allowed to resize the image.
20091101 22:42:59< Aethaeryn> "Proelium" is a big word, after all.
20091101 22:45:52< Deusite> incipi novam militiam solum for start a new single player camaign
20091101 22:46:11< Deusite> NB: imperatives use a VO word order
20091101 22:47:41< Aethaeryn> Deusite: was the first line then "incipi rudimentum" then?
20091101 22:48:41< Deusite> yes, I've only just found out imperatives change the word order
20091101 22:49:34< Deusite> Play multiplayer (hotseat, LAN, or Internet), or a single scenario against "
20091101 22:49:34< Deusite> "the AI now
20091101 22:51:41< Aethaeryn> "Incipi rudimentum, ut ludum consuescere." et "Incipi novam militiam solum."
20091101 22:52:00< Deusite> Yes
20091101 22:52:26< Aethaeryn> Constat.
20091101 22:55:43< Deusite> lude cum pluribus (???) , aut proelium solitarium contra AI
20091101 22:56:33< Aethaeryn> I think the issue is that we didn't translate multiplayer game... we left it with the old translation. The question is, can our online resources find a better word?
20091101 22:57:06< Deusite> the old translation as (sella calida, rete locale, vel Interrete) for (hotseat, LAN, or internet)
20091101 22:57:12< Aethaeryn> You know what... Wesnoth almost seems more like alea than ludus since it's a game of chance.
20091101 22:57:28< Aethaeryn> "game of dice; die; dice-play; gambling, risking; chance, venture, risk, stake;" vs. "game, play, sport, pastime, entertainment, fun; school, elementary school;"
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20091101 22:57:44< Aethaeryn> ludus, while commonly seen as "game" seem sto be more like something kids play outside vs. what Wesnoth is.
20091101 22:58:47< Deusite> perhaps, it might suggest that it is only luck though, there is skill involved
20091101 22:59:11< Aethaeryn> Hmm, I guess we can stick with "ludus" although it's kind of a misconception.
20091101 22:59:32< Deusite> http://www.babylon.com/definition/alea/English this gives reference to it as a specific game
20091101 22:59:42< Aethaeryn> ah, okay
20091101 23:00:02< Aethaeryn> http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?game <- this seems to suggest that this is more "gambling/chance game" vs. "sport/play-outside game"
20091101 23:00:20< Aethaeryn> but I guess most people only have "ludus" in their vocabulary anyway.
20091101 23:00:30< Aethaeryn> So we'll stick with it as the far more common word.
20091101 23:00:41< Aethaeryn> Even if it technically might be slightly wrong.
20091101 23:00:48< Deusite> Yes, I think so.
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20091101 23:02:53< Aethaeryn> Okay, I think I'm going to do the effects on the logo and see how it looks...
20091101 23:03:41< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Okay, I found another issue with "Ludere cum pluribus lusoribus"
20091101 23:04:14< Aethaeryn> i think the "pluribus" is implied and unnecessary. "Play with many players" as opposd to "Play with players"
20091101 23:04:39< Aethaeryn> It may even imply that you're playing with more than one, while most games are 1v1.
20091101 23:04:58< Aethaeryn> So lude cum
20091101 23:06:23< Deusite> lude cum lusoribus (sella calida, rete locale, vel Interrete) , aut proelium solitarium contra AI
20091101 23:06:35< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: regarding image translation, talk to jetrel
20091101 23:06:46< Ivanovic> (as in "how should the result look)
20091101 23:06:59< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: and you have to send the translated image files to Chusslove
20091101 23:07:58< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Okay. Ty.
20091101 23:08:31< Deusite> amazingly, the original person translated game as lusus (dalliance) :P
20091101 23:08:32< Aethaeryn> Deusite: are you sure we want to translate "hot seat" literally? It seems like an idiom.
20091101 23:09:07< Deusite> There doesn't seem to be an appropriate idiom in Latin. 
20091101 23:09:21< Aethaeryn> Remember, if a player knows Latin but has German or French as a first language, they're going to be confused to find an English idiom.
20091101 23:10:14< Aethaeryn> "Hotseat" isn't used in-game anymore, it's an example of an outdated tooltip. It's called "local game" in the menu.
20091101 23:10:15< stikonas> you probably need to create #wesnoth-la channel :)
20091101 23:10:29< Aethaeryn> Perhaps we don't need to include hotseat.
20091101 23:10:40< Deusite> Aethaeryn: velut hospes?
20091101 23:10:53< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: ehm, IIRC hotseat is not in the menu anymore
20091101 23:11:06< Ivanovic> so you are again working on irrelevant strings
20091101 23:11:15< Aethaeryn> It's not an irrelevent string.
20091101 23:11:24< Aethaeryn> It's the tooltip when you mouse over multiplayer.
20091101 23:11:27< Aethaeryn> I checked in trunk.
20091101 23:11:32< Ivanovic> those lines that start with #~ mean "this string was once in, it is no longer included but might make it back some time in future"
20091101 23:11:52< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: We're on "Play multiplayer (hotseat, LAN, or Internet), or a single scenario against the AI"
20091101 23:12:03< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20091101 23:12:18< Aethaeryn> Deusite: I'm thinking we should translate it not literally, since that's kind of outdated
20091101 23:12:27< Aethaeryn> how about "(local or Internet)"?
20091101 23:13:04< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I'm trying only to work on the most visible changes before 1.8. We're still in the main menu.
20091101 23:13:32< Deusite> therefore sicut hospes for hotseat (as a host)
20091101 23:14:22< Aethaeryn> Deusite: Hotseat mode doesn't exist anymore, though, it's called "Local Game"
20091101 23:14:31< Deusite> cum adcolis for LAN
20091101 23:14:43< Deusite> hotseat appears in the hover text on the bottom of the screen
20091101 23:14:44< Aethaeryn> why not blend LAN and local game to "local"?
20091101 23:15:02< Deusite> that's what I'm translating
20091101 23:15:20< Aethaeryn> Yes, but I think the actual hover text is wrong, and thus literal isn't necessary.
20091101 23:15:28< Deusite> I checked in 1.6
20091101 23:15:48< Aethaeryn> In 1.2 there was literally an option called "hot seat"
20091101 23:16:32< Aethaeryn> So if "hot seat" means "local game" we might as well translate it literally instead of trying to translate an idiom
20091101 23:16:37< Aethaeryn> as "local game"
20091101 23:17:27< Aethaeryn> Deusite: what do you think?
20091101 23:18:06< Deusite> ludum situalis then.
20091101 23:18:29< Deusite> I have to admit I don't fully understand what hotseat means here
20091101 23:18:51< Aethaeryn> hmm, situalis is noted as "very rare"
20091101 23:19:01< Deusite> localis then
20091101 23:19:27< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20091101 23:19:29< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn, Deusite: what do you think of creating a chan for the latin translation?
20091101 23:19:41< Ivanovic> just do this: /join #wesnoth-la
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20091101 23:19:47< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Perhaps, although it's just the two of us atm.
20091101 23:19:59< Aethaeryn> How do you create a chan on this network though?
20091101 23:20:03< Deusite> But we are taking over the IRC ;)
20091101 23:20:10< Ivanovic> yes, but this translation stuff (which is clearly one lang only) should not be done in here
20091101 23:20:40< Aethaeryn> Alright... Clearly there's enough activity. Hopefully we can attract one or two other translators once we get a usable core.
20091101 23:20:47< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: you just join a chan and then it is created
20091101 23:21:07< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: No, there's a registration thing involved...
20091101 23:21:19< Ivanovic> that is not required, though you *can* do it
20091101 23:21:24< Aethaeryn> okay
20091101 23:21:42< Ivanovic> you should get some server message about how to do that
20091101 23:22:06< Ivanovic> if not: www.freenode.net should mention it in the faq
20091101 23:22:28< Aethaeryn>  /msg chanserv help tends to work, as long as the network has a chanserv
20091101 23:22:30< Aethaeryn> Registered it
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20091101 23:43:25< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Just checking by you first... Since so much of what we're going over has needed at least minor rewrites (often the whole thing rewritten), should I mark everything we didn't check over yet as fuzzy?
20091101 23:43:46< Aethaeryn> It would make it easier to know which parts have been rewritten or at least checked over, and a lot of the translation has to be rewritten.
20091101 23:43:59< Aethaeryn> Just not sure if that's a proper use of "fuzzy" though.
20091101 23:44:40< Ivanovic> you can use fuzzy this way
20091101 23:45:06< Ivanovic> just keep in mind that fuzzy strings are handled as if they were untranslated ingame
20091101 23:54:14< Aethaeryn> Yes, but that might be better.
20091101 23:54:20< Aethaeryn> People might be confused about two separate styles of Latin
20091101 23:54:43< Aethaeryn> In other words, our choices of words and grammar seem to be different than the original maintainer, as evidienced by how much we've changed the menu.
20091101 23:55:24< CIA-61> ivanovic * r39562 /trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs): updated Italian translation
20091101 23:55:54< Ivanovic> IIRC the oririginal translator is native italian
20091101 23:56:34-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091101 23:56:49< Sirp> hi happygrue 
20091101 23:57:00< happygrue> hello
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 02 00:00:47 2009