--- Log opened Tue Nov 10 00:00:34 2009
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20091110 00:16:12< AI0867> about the turn refresh not happening on turn 1, the original changelog and commit message state that this is intentional
20091110 00:16:21< AI0867> and it's never been changed since
20091110 00:16:31< AI0867> until now that is
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20091110 00:22:53< crimson_penguin> BLARG, I'm having issues
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20091110 01:06:31< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: so I've got a bit of an issue; it's not major, so if I can't fix it I'll just release, but I don't wanna work on it more right now, so I'll fix it or not tomorrow, then upload
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20091110 06:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.8, announcing "soon" | string/feature freeze active! | 64 bugs, 246 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091110 11:25:11< Ivanovic> moin
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20091110 11:31:17< Soliton> crazy: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27737
20091110 11:36:24< Ivanovic> wtf?!?
20091110 11:36:44< Ivanovic> okay, wesnoth *is* very modable!
20091110 11:38:31< fendrin> Wesnoth is very add onable. but it's not very modable.
20091110 11:40:46< Ivanovic> oh, it is very modable
20091110 11:40:56< Ivanovic> you could just replace basically everything of data/
20091110 11:41:28< fendrin> Sure but the engine is specialized to a degree and it
20091110 11:41:57< fendrin> is not possible to publish a mod that runs out of the box. 
20091110 11:43:01< fendrin> You can code a different way of multiplayer gameplay as an era but then you are limited to the unit you provide. Because you can't choose more than one era.
20091110 11:43:47< fendrin> If you go the way and exchange core for that you have to make your own package since the addon manager doesn't support full conversions.
20091110 11:49:23< Crab_> actually, it might make sense to make (someday) 'core'  to work as an addon, too.  this will, for example, allow out-of-release WML bugfixes for core campaigns.
20091110 11:52:07< Ivanovic> Crab_: only when we have *by far* stronger servers for providing the addons
20091110 11:52:22< Ivanovic> since addons are currently "everything of a campaign" it would otherwise be *hell* for us
20091110 11:52:37< Ivanovic> eg consider replacing httt with an "updated version" which also includes translations!
20091110 11:54:38< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, but it is possible to simply backport WML-only fixes, which are small in size. a few of such wml-only bugs creep in at each release
20091110 11:55:02< Ivanovic> Crab_: but this is not how updates of addons currently work
20091110 11:55:08< Ivanovic> so "some more changes" are required
20091110 11:55:20< Ivanovic> as in "real patching" of addons, not just "replace everything"
20091110 11:56:27< Crab_> ok, understood. I was thinking that the addons are updated using something similar to 'how rsync works'.
20091110 11:58:11< fendrin> Incremental updates that only replace the .cfg files with errors shouldn't be to big.
20091110 11:58:24< fendrin> or all config files just not sound and gfx
20091110 11:59:00< fendrin> I like Crab_'s idea of ledding the addon server provide such fixes for the mainline wml stuff.
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20091110 12:00:10< Crab_> fendrin: imo, this is a good idea for someone to do in a gsoc2010 project - it has a well-defined scope and is doable in a few months of work.
20091110 12:01:35< fendrin> Crab_: hmmm, would it need to compare local file versions against a svn repository?
20091110 12:01:35< Crab_> 'core is an addon' this will also allow other addons to 'replace' some of the core parts, not add to them, if addon author wants.
20091110 12:01:53< Crab_> fendrin: no
20091110 12:02:40< Crab_> fendrin: after all, it be made to exactly know *which* version is installed now.
20091110 12:02:45< Ivanovic> Crab_: there are "some more" problems with it
20091110 12:02:51< Ivanovic> how to do things eg on linux?
20091110 12:02:57< Ivanovic> install wesnoth into the home of every user?
20091110 12:03:02< Soliton> but replacing core parts is exactly the problem. you at least need some mechanism to revert to default core if you allow addons to change that.
20091110 12:03:03< Ivanovic> ask for admin permissions to update things?
20091110 12:03:28< Ivanovic> don't forget that the package is meant to be controlled by the package manager there
20091110 12:03:35< Ivanovic> and normal users should not run wesnoth as root!
20091110 12:04:56< fendrin> no user should run wesnoth as root.
20091110 12:04:58< Crab_> Ivanovic: it can be simple enough for 1st version, something like:    'core is updatable' feature is optional - if you install data dir globally - it simply won't work without privs.     
20091110 12:05:54< Ivanovic> Crab_: even on windows this is already problematic since by now they try to enforce a split between user and admin
20091110 12:05:56< Crab_> Soliton: by 'replacing core parts' I mean : "don't *load* core parts, load other parts instead" - so, they'll be still on disk.
20091110 12:06:13< Crab_> Soliton: i.e. let the addon specify what it wants loaded.
20091110 12:06:30< Ivanovic> somehow i think this is a little more complecated than just "ah, just replace file A, B and C"
20091110 12:06:47< Ivanovic> (especially considering that you have to first check against the version and all the likes)
20091110 12:07:00< Soliton> Crab_: well, mp addons are loaded as soon as you enter mp mode. you can't decide what addon to load.
20091110 12:07:22< Ivanovic> (so for 1.6.2 a different file might be needed than for 1.6.5 and due to the changes, translateable strings change, which requires all corresponding .mo files to be exchanges, ...)
20091110 12:07:47< Crab_> Ivanovic: for 2nd version, it can be 'a in-wesnoth button for user to "activate this feature" -  this will copy core from global dir to home dir and set a preference 'use home dir instead of global dir for core'
20091110 12:08:23< fendrin> The discussion proves my statement obove: Wesnoth is not very modable.
20091110 12:09:05< Crab_> Soliton: that's now. but, I think, that addons need to load only the relevant stuff for them.
20091110 12:09:37< Soliton> Crab_: certainly. not an easy change though...
20091110 12:09:48< Crab_> Soliton: to allow a user to select a subset of addons he wants to be active
20091110 12:10:03< Crab_> Soliton: without uninstalling them or messing with symlinking around
20091110 12:10:15< Ivanovic> fendrin: it is modable, just not easily updateable
20091110 12:11:01< Crab_> btw, if 'allow a user to select a subset of addons he wants to be active' will be done, we can leave the core almost as is.
20091110 12:11:24< Crab_> and make that a 'allow a user or an addon to select a subset of addons and parts of core that are wanted to be active' 
20091110 12:13:02< Crab_> then, it'll be possible to add a 'bugfix of Heir to the Throne' addon,  which will load 'all core except old HttT scenarios'+'bugfixed HttT scenarios'
20091110 12:13:20< Crab_> thus, no issue with write permissions in global dirs arise.
20091110 12:13:22< fendrin> Ivanovic: Well that is the reason that there is no real popular wesnoth mod out there. You must install your own infrastructure to every mod. Own addon servers. Own multiplayer server. Because a mod means a fork.
20091110 12:13:33< fendrin> And that is my definition of not very modable.
20091110 12:15:25< Soliton> you must tell people how to change the core files is all.
20091110 12:15:37< Soliton> you don't need any of the above.
20091110 12:16:11< Crab_> Soliton: but the above is easier to understand for non-techie people.
20091110 12:16:33< Soliton> with the above i meant run your own addon and mp servers.
20091110 12:16:43< Crab_> ah
20091110 12:17:32< Soliton> what you said sounds good.
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20091110 12:19:26< Crab_> btw, lo and behold - result of alink's bugfix of ai targeting on large maps (Cynsaun Battlefield). Relevant change size: 2 lines:    http://wesnoth.terraninfo.net/index.php?dim1=ai_config_me&latest_svn_only=yes
20091110 12:20:44< Soliton> very nice.
20091110 12:21:45< Crab_> ( diff -u src/ai/testing/ca_default_move_to_targets.cpp src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.cpp )
20091110 12:22:48< Ivanovic> fendrin: if you mean a "total conversion" with a "mod": yes, you have to basically replace everything
20091110 12:23:17< Ivanovic> fendrin: though you can already create a campaign that does just use wesnoth as starter and the content of the campaign looks and plays differently
20091110 12:23:36< Ivanovic> (IIRC there is also some stuff possible regarding different ingame layout of the gui)
20091110 12:23:56< Ivanovic> fendrin: and regarding mp content: yes, you just load some content, though this can basically be "not really wesnoth at alL"
20091110 12:24:04< Ivanovic> it will still be turn based and on hex fields, yeah
20091110 12:24:10< Ivanovic> but that is basically everything
20091110 12:25:34< Ivanovic> fendrin: basically this all depends on how you see "mod"
20091110 12:25:54< Ivanovic> if it is an "everything has to look different": sure, you have to replace all the core files eg to get a different looking main menu
20091110 12:26:11< Ivanovic> though you *can* already create some eg spacenoth campaign with current wesnoth, that *is* possible
20091110 12:26:13< fendrin> To make it more touchable: I can't download an addon that replaces some aspect of the game, and does that for all campaigns.
20091110 12:26:31< Ivanovic> how should it be possible to "modify existing content"?
20091110 12:26:43< Ivanovic> sorry, but no real "mod" that i know is able to do so
20091110 12:26:54< Ivanovic> thinking eg of counter strike which is/was a halflife mod
20091110 12:27:04< Ivanovic> the old content is normally not reused
20091110 12:27:21< Ivanovic> the engine is used to create something somehow different
20091110 12:30:19< Crab_> Ivanovic: for example, imagine an addon which changes the parameters of all elvish archers in all campaigns
20091110 12:30:51< fendrin> People can't meet on the addon server and deceide to play a survival with era this and era that but use the lessluck mod for example. That would be my ideal for good modable.
20091110 12:31:04< Ivanovic> Crab_: personally i don't see this as a "normal" mod but as a way to catastrophe for multiplayer
20091110 12:31:05< Ivanovic> ;)
20091110 12:31:25< Soliton> people can't meet on the addon server at all. :-(
20091110 12:31:46< fendrin> sorry mp server
20091110 12:32:48< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, what if someone wants to play a game having a different 'feel' from standard wesnoth, yet still play standard campaigns ?
20091110 12:33:14< Ivanovic> Crab_: everyone is free to provide this in a mod
20091110 12:33:28< Crab_> Ivanovic: how to play standard campaigns with 'recruit cost halved' ?
20091110 12:33:31< Ivanovic> Crab_: though it should be clear that this is not a simple "ah, lets alter this param and it is usable" case
20091110 12:34:02< Crab_> Ivanovic: (I'm asking about a 'downloadable addon', of course)
20091110 12:34:14< Ivanovic> Crab_: of course that is possible
20091110 12:34:25< Ivanovic> just copy over eg httt and include the units dir there locally
20091110 12:34:37< Ivanovic> alter the unit cost and the id (some simple mass replace should do the job)
20091110 12:34:42< Ivanovic> and you are done
20091110 12:34:52< Soliton> wesnoth is very customisable but distributing those customisations and mixing them is not always easy.
20091110 12:35:26< fendrin> By the way, I am just porting the recruit recall create and so on dialogues to the new gui2 system.
20091110 12:35:40< Ivanovic> fendrin: cool, but you know, feature freeze
20091110 12:35:42< Crab_> Ivanovic: and what if we want to play with several such addons? let's say one deals with undead units and another - with rebel units ?
20091110 12:35:50< Ivanovic> so no way to commit it to trunk until 1.8 is done and branched off
20091110 12:36:08< Crab_> Ivanovic: here things become more difficult.
20091110 12:36:19< Ivanovic> Crab_: IIRC it is possible to create meta eras that basically include both eras
20091110 12:36:51< Crab_> Ivanovic: will a casual player be able to do that ?
20091110 12:37:05< Ivanovic> sorry, we are talking about *mods* and *addons*
20091110 12:37:17< Ivanovic> we are not talking about "what will a casual player be able to do"
20091110 12:37:26< fendrin> I am heading for simplifying the interface by reducing the 2 unit info boxes to only one. 
20091110 12:37:37< Ivanovic> considering that a casual player is not able to differ between "campaing" and "mp era" this question is bogus anyway
20091110 12:38:21< fendrin> That means that all unit values are displayed only in the right part of the gui where the selected unit is displayed now.
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20091110 12:38:50< Ivanovic> fendrin: hmm, i am not sure if this is the way to go
20091110 12:38:53< Crab_> Ivanovic: no, I was talking about a slightly different thing. imagine that both addons ('one that changes parameters of undead units for std campaigns' and 'another - which changes parameters of rebel units for std campaigns') are done. Imo, casual player should have a way to 'enable' both at the same time without hacking wml
20091110 12:39:15< Ivanovic> since the recruit stuff is done using an extra dialog i as player expect every info to be in that very dialog, not somewhere else on the screen
20091110 12:39:29< Ivanovic> (yes, i have *never* had a look at the right pane when recruiting/recalling)
20091110 12:40:07< Ivanovic> Crab_: IMO the casual player should not have a way to do so since there might be changes that lead to conflicts between the two addons
20091110 12:40:14< Ivanovic> lets eg think about loyalists and rebels
20091110 12:40:15< fendrin> There is no more extra dialogue for recruting :-)
20091110 12:40:21< Ivanovic> both share some units, which changes to use?
20091110 12:40:30< Ivanovic> fendrin: uhm, okay
20091110 12:40:46< Ivanovic> fendrin: looking forward to seeing some screenshot or the likes
20091110 12:40:54< Crab_> Ivanovic: a good point.
20091110 12:41:07< fendrin> I can provide one, give me a minute.
20091110 12:41:41< Ivanovic> fendrin: though this change should not be commited to trunk till post 1.8 though
20091110 12:41:43< Soliton> http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=392936#p392936  spam?
20091110 12:42:15< zookeeper> yes
20091110 12:42:23< Ivanovic> Soliton: not sure at all
20091110 12:42:36< fendrin> Ivanovic: sure, I am not finished before 1.9 with it.
20091110 12:42:38< Ivanovic> Soliton: that is: no site is linked and the email or the likes does nothing either
20091110 12:42:42< loonycyborg> Soliton: Probably. There are spam posts aimed to trick other people in providing links.
20091110 12:43:43< Crab_> Ivanovic: but, if combining different addons is done on the addon server, then 'just copy over eg httt' solution will place a big load on the addon server - because the number of different combinations is huge, and each will need a full copy of httt.
20091110 12:44:19 * Soliton has to go.
20091110 12:44:50< Crab_> Ivanovic: ideally, the addon author will need to supply only things that are actually changed by the addon, and must not depend on available campaigns
20091110 12:45:30< Crab_> e.g. if a new campaign is added to the core, or is changed; there should be no reason to change the addon which modifies the stats of rebel units in all campaigns.
20091110 12:47:05 * Crab_ has to go, too
20091110 12:49:43< Ivanovic> Crab_: though some "replace just some aspect" is a non trival task
20091110 12:49:57< fendrin> Ivanovic: http://imagebin.org/71186
20091110 12:50:00 * Ivanovic fears "aspect WML" lurking around the corner
20091110 12:50:02< Ivanovic> ;)
20091110 12:50:31< Ivanovic> fendrin: yeah, could work out nicely
20091110 12:51:06< Crab_> fendrin: feature suggestion: provide a way for WML author to supply a custom description which will be displayed in the right column near each unit.
20091110 12:51:32< Crab_> fendrin: for example, this can be used to explain 'what will happen if you select this unit' sort of things.
20091110 12:52:46< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, that will lead to core being split into pieces :)
20091110 12:53:15< Ivanovic> Crab_: a good way to generate this would *really* be adding aspect orientation to wml
20091110 12:53:28< Ivanovic> have you ever had a look at aspectC++?
20091110 12:53:37< Crab_> used aop in java
20091110 12:53:51< Ivanovic> with something like this it could work, though it will get a lot more complecated for content creators to find good matching rules
20091110 12:54:17< Crab_> well, it can be not that fancy :)
20091110 12:54:40< Crab_> simply split core into parts, and allow rules to select 'which parts of core/addons are to be active now'
20091110 12:55:26< Ivanovic> for some "i just want all elvish archers to cost half gold at recruitment" the easiest way would be aspect orientation
20091110 12:55:28< Crab_> so, simply 'core:units shall be disabled and  myaddon:units shall be enabled' will do the trick for the addon which'll replace std units in all campaings.
20091110 12:55:32< Ivanovic> using some "replace" directive
20091110 12:56:16< Crab_> yes, there can be different approaches to achieve the result..
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20091110 13:03:24< fendrin> Ivanovic: I guess people will get used to selected unit is always to be seen on the right very quickly.
20091110 13:03:40< Ivanovic> yes, in this view it should work
20091110 13:04:03< Ivanovic> though it might be strange in "really big"-resolutions
20091110 13:04:21< Ivanovic> in something like 800x600 it should work perfectly since stuff is always close together
20091110 13:05:16< fendrin> That is true for all option dialouge with the new gui2 messages. In fact what you see is reused [message][option] code.
20091110 13:05:55< Ivanovic> for most gui2 stuff it is not an issue, since all info is right there at the buttom
20091110 13:06:09< Ivanovic> for unit info that stuff will be at the buttom and at the (middle) right
20091110 13:06:26< Ivanovic> in 2560x1600 (yes, i am going *really* extreme now) this will be a little different
20091110 13:06:40< Ivanovic> at least regarding how far you have to look around
20091110 13:07:16< fendrin> Ah now I see your point. You don't talk about long nearly empty option lines but the height difference between the list and the displayed unit.
20091110 13:07:36< Ivanovic> jupp
20091110 13:07:53< Ivanovic> about how much you have to move your head/eyes to see the corresponding info
20091110 13:11:47< fendrin> Good point.
20091110 13:19:45< chpln> Evening.  I have a remapped modifier (capslock to control) set via xmodmap.  Although it acts as a modifier in wesnoth, that modifier is not 'control' (nor any other modifier representable by wesnoth).  I'm wondering, should I file a bug or is this an SDL issue?
20091110 13:20:42< Ivanovic> chpln: i don't really understand your issue, though it sounds somehow like a possible sdl issue to me
20091110 13:22:53< chpln> Ivanovic: to be more specific, I can use the preferences dialogue to rebind keys which make use of the modifier.  However they must be rebound each time, as this modifier doesn't seem to be one which has a corresponding WML key in '[hotkey]'.
20091110 13:23:39< Ivanovic> hmm, so you have remapped capslock to act like it was control?
20091110 13:23:52< Ivanovic> what does exv identify it as?
20091110 13:23:59< Ivanovic> is it still identified as "capslock"?
20091110 13:24:28< Ivanovic> if that is the case, it is most likely a case of wesnoth being "broken" since it does not consider this option
20091110 13:24:34< chpln> Ivanovic: Yes.  It is still 'capslock', though it is now part of the 'control' modifier map.
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20091110 13:27:57< chpln> Ivanovic: OK, I guess I'll file a bug for it.
20091110 13:28:46< Ivanovic> yes, please file a wesnoth bug report, if it is not really wesnoth we will mark it as upstream
20091110 13:28:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20091110 13:40:55< Soliton> fendrin: there might be situations where the dialog is called without the side panel there/visible.
20091110 13:43:20< Soliton> chpln: what is saved in preferences for that binding?
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20091110 13:55:50< chpln> Soliton: The command, the corresponding character, and "no" to all modifiers.
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20091110 13:56:56< chpln> Soliton: Similarly, I can't use any readline bindings, etc. with that modifier.
20091110 14:06:07< chpln> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14720
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20091110 14:38:01< chpln> Time to get some sleep.  Night all.
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20091110 15:17:52< alink> hi
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20091110 15:19:44< Ivanovic> esr: feel free to close bugs that were fixed with 1.7.8
20091110 15:19:58< Ivanovic> alink: is this one for you? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14720
20091110 15:20:14< esr> Ivanovic: Will do.
20091110 15:22:29< alink> Ivanovic: probably not, I hate the capslock key and I am not even sure to understand this bug report without test it
20091110 15:22:43< alink> who use capslock anyway? ;-p
20091110 15:22:44< Ivanovic> esr: okay, thanks
20091110 15:23:09< Ivanovic> alink: the thing is that the user remapped capslock to act as additional ctrl key since capslock sucks
20091110 15:23:48< Ivanovic> but the game does not use it as just another was to input ctrl (at least does not save changes to the hotkeys using this one extra control key)
20091110 15:23:58< Ivanovic> s/was/way
20091110 15:24:08< alink> well, if he mapped it well, it should be invisible to wesnoth
20091110 15:24:35< Ivanovic> have a look at todays irc logs, maybe this helps a little more
20091110 15:24:52< Ivanovic> starting at [13:19:45] <chpln>
20091110 15:25:25< alink> reading..
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20091110 15:34:11< alink> mmmh, remapping capslock. I did that once for my keyboard. Not sure why i stopped, but probably because this kind of bugs with some apps
20091110 15:37:16< alink> Crab_; I saw that the targetting bugfix looked usefull. 70% win (with 6% draw) if i read this correctly http://wesnoth.terraninfo.net/index.php?dim1=ai_ident_me&latest_svn_only=yes
20091110 15:39:06< alink> however, the avg time seems exacly the same between the 2 AI (which seems wrong). Is it possible to know time of each AI ?
20091110 15:39:32< alink> I am asking because the fixed AI is not optimized yet
20091110 15:40:15< alink> or, more precisely, a recent optimization was done assuming the bug.
20091110 15:41:54< alink> but it is possible to optimize the fixed targetting by using similar methods. Just a bit more work, so I wish to know if really needed
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20091110 15:43:16< Soliton> i guess wesnoth/sdl doesn't care about xmodmap/x bindings and we just don't handle caps lock well.
20091110 15:56:31< silene> more precisely, sdl doesn't care, and unless we decide to directly talk to x, there is no way we can fix it in wesnoth
20091110 16:02:26< Soliton> i think it's good enough if we just handle caps lock properly.
20091110 16:07:52< silene> that, at least, is easy; it is a few-liner; but it won't solve the issue of someone remapping capslock to control
20091110 16:10:18< Soliton> at least then you can map stuff to use caps lock instead of control yourself. though if you want to use regular control and caps lock for the same bindings then you're indeed out of luck.
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20091110 16:22:33< Crab_> alink: hi
20091110 16:22:46< alink> hello Crab_
20091110 16:23:07< alink> thanks for having tested the fixed targetting
20091110 16:23:50< Crab_> 'time being equal' in stats is a current feature (as it is a 'game time', which is equal for both sides), through there's both plans to change it and there's a workaround to find it out.
20091110 16:24:38< alink> ok
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20091110 17:13:31< alink> Crab_: I just realize now that having each AI times for fight bewteen defaut and testing was useless. If testing win more, it will often have more units and will always take more thinking time
20091110 17:14:36< Crab_> there are such issues, yes. but, as I've said, there are ways to measure.
20091110 17:14:41< alink> what i need is to note current total AI time, then optimize testing without changing its behavior, and if you redo the same test, see if avg total time was reduced
20091110 17:14:57< Crab_> for example, if you make an improvement that affects only speed, then we'll be able to see the effect
20091110 17:15:05< Crab_> exactly as you just said
20091110 17:15:08< alink> ok :)
20091110 17:16:55< alink> i have just coded a first good optimization (but not tested yet). Should make testing-target around the same speed as 1.7 bugged AI, except maybe for few targets on complex map
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20091110 17:20:07< alink> plus, apply the same prioritizing/prunning idea on the units of the now-working complex targetting
20091110 17:27:25< Crab_> ok. it'll take ~18 hours to get good enough results of the batch testing. ping me when it'll be ready for test (commit it or link to a patch)
20091110 17:28:05< Crab_> (if, now or at some point later, it'll be needed, we can fork the targeting candidate action once more)
20091110 17:29:27< alink> so, for now, i commit on test-target ?
20091110 17:29:45< alink> wow 18 hours is huge 
20091110 17:29:56< Crab_> well, ~ 5 minutes per game
20091110 17:30:07< Crab_> and we have 72 different matchups
20091110 17:30:18< Crab_> 6 factions * 6 factions * 2 sides
20091110 17:30:51< Crab_> and, we need roughly ~ 72*5 = 360 results to be statistically significant
20091110 17:31:10< Crab_> so, 360*5 minutes ~ 24 hours
20091110 17:31:46< alink> ok, i will certainly check more my change before asking you to launch such heavy task
20091110 17:32:12< Crab_> well, it's np for me - it runs on a separate server ~10 km from me. I'm not bothered by it :)
20091110 17:32:39< Ivanovic> Crab_: what is the cpu used in that box?
20091110 17:33:07< Ivanovic> (beside this: would it somehow be possible to spawn >1 thread for targetting? this might help a lot on multicpu setups)
20091110 17:33:21< Ivanovic> then i could maybe run this every now and then on my box, a core2quad 9300
20091110 17:33:49< Ivanovic> anyway, i am off for some three hours now, cu
20091110 17:34:43< Soliton> the tests could just run in parallel.
20091110 17:34:43< Crab_> Ivanovic: P4 3.0Ghz 
20091110 17:36:08< Crab_> yes, if there's enough CPU's, it's easy to run the tests in parallel (each test runner is a python script which runs wesnoth and submits results to pgsql db on remote host)
20091110 17:43:27< Crab_> Ivanovic: and, 'running tests' not that a 'development bottleneck' atm, so, there's no much need for help.
20091110 17:43:38< CIA-55> crab * r39671 /trunk/utils/ai_test/ai_test.py: minor update of ai batch testing script to avoid deadlocks if stderr of wesnoth fills all buffer space
20091110 17:44:53< Crab_> if it becomes a bottleneck, it would be easy enough to use utils/ai_test/ai_test.py from multiple threads/machines to get results faster (all that is needed for that is a relevant config file with 'db_username/db_password/maps and ai combinations to test')
20091110 17:45:18< Crab_> Ivanovic: nevertheless, thanks for the offer
20091110 17:50:11< Crab_> alink: 'so, for now, i commit on test-target ?'  -  well, since we can check for both time and quality using 'modified targeting' vs 'old targeting', it is ok to commit on 'src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.?pp'
20091110 17:50:50< Crab_> but forking it once more (if needed), is quick (compiling and messing with all those buildsystems takes more time than copying/replacing names/registering)
20091110 17:54:31< alink> unless I see a risk to affect AI bevahior, forking seems too much for testing this optimization. The change is simpler that i thought. If all seems fine here, i will commit it directly
20091110 17:56:50< alink> I still have my previous trick to see if it affect AI behavior : run the old and new code in the same AI and see if they return the same target in various cases. Not bullet-proof but quickly detect problems
20091110 17:58:35< alink> I suppose that if the fixed seed-rng stuff was stable enough, I could just relaunch the same game with the optimized AI and see if it does same actions
20091110 18:00:16< alink> btw does that fixed seed-rng stuff is stable enough now (as in restart the same game give same result) ?
20091110 18:09:26< esr> 39 bugs closed, two left open for further study.
20091110 18:10:00< Crab_> alink: don't know about the rng
20091110 18:11:34< stikonas> wesbot: topic
20091110 18:11:36-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.8, announcing "soon" | string/feature freeze active! | 66 bugs, 246 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091110 19:43:49< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I didn't have time to really look into the problem more, so I'm just gonna upload as is, because I'm gonna have an opportunity to upload much faster, soon
20091110 19:44:25< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: the problem is simply that it makes the system alert noise any time you press a key command - annoying, but it doesn't technically break anything
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20091110 20:27:31< Ivanovic> re
20091110 20:31:50< VladimirSlavik> hi... Ivanovic, just asking - you didn't miss the attachment to that mail, did you?
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20091110 20:36:04< CIA-55> ivanovic * r39672 /trunk/po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated Czech translation
20091110 20:36:05< Ivanovic> VladimirSlavik: i saved the file but forgot to extract, copy over and update (plus commit) the files
20091110 20:36:17< VladimirSlavik> thanks!
20091110 20:37:11< CIA-55> ivanovic * r39673 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): changelog update for r39672 (Czech translation update)
20091110 20:39:41-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091110 20:39:55< mordante> servus
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20091110 21:01:45< CIA-55> mordante * r39674 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/scrollbar_container.cpp: Properly set the item position after sizing.
20091110 21:02:54< CIA-55> mordante * r39675 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20091110 21:02:54< CIA-55> Show selected item after a listbox resize.
20091110 21:02:54< CIA-55> Fixes bug #13995.
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20091110 21:18:56< mordante> can somebody try to reproduce https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14300 ?
20091110 21:22:35< Ivanovic> okay, looks like the macosx upload is not done yet
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20091110 21:26:24< mordante> esr, since you're an GNA admin now, is there any change https://gna.org/support/?1865 will get fixed?
20091110 21:26:39< mordante> chance*
20091110 21:27:01< mordante> wesbot, seen arc
20091110 21:27:01< wesbot> mordante: The person with the nick Arc last spoke 24d 21h ago.  19d 21h ago they left with the message: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
20091110 21:29:30< esr> mordante: Unlikely.  It's not an admin sort of problem; it would probably take a fix deep in the Savane codebase, which is pretty moribund at this point (though I have committed one very minor fix to it).
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20091110 21:30:42< mordante> esr, thanks for the info
20091110 21:30:43< Ivanovic> mordante: arc is already missing for a while and i got no stuff to commit from him either...
20091110 21:31:25< mordante> Ivanovic, yeah I thought that was the case, but he was working on a patch which he never posted :-(
20091110 21:31:34< Ivanovic> :(
20091110 21:31:47< shadowmaster> :)
20091110 21:32:20< Aethaeryn> Just curious: every time you update an add-on, does it add to the download counter?
20091110 21:32:28< esr> mordante: Sorry I couldn't give a more postive answer.  This branch of the Savane code is all but abandoned. The energy tha might be fgoing into fixing it is in a SacaneCleanup project over on Savannah.  No, I don't know why the two are separate.
20091110 21:32:32 * mordante swings a huge warhammer in the direction shadowmaster 
20091110 21:32:37< Aethaeryn> In other words, if you downloaded Foo version 0.1 and it updated 10 times, does it count as 11 downloads for it?
20091110 21:32:57< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: it probably does
20091110 21:33:09< shadowmaster> I                                                             don't tink
20091110 21:33:19< shadowmaster> I don't think it doesd
20091110 21:33:34< shadowmaster> it will increase the upload counter anyway
20091110 21:33:38 * mordante guesses it was a direct hit ;-)
20091110 21:33:58< esr> Whitespace damage +!
20091110 21:34:06< shadowmaster> mordante: yes, you caused a short DoS on the kernel's input device layer, thanks.
20091110 21:34:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: how does getting new versions of an addon increase the upload counter?
20091110 21:34:24 * mordante smiles
20091110 21:34:36< shadowmaster> ah, update an add-on in the sense of the update dialog?
20091110 21:34:42< mordante> esr, well it's at least good to know that we don't need to expect a fix soon, I rather have bad news as no news at all
20091110 21:34:52< Ivanovic> what Aethaeryn basically asked is "i, as user updated an addon 10 times since its author was busy, will this count as 10 downloads for the addon (11 when adding the first download)"
20091110 21:35:46< Soliton> an update check with no download obviously doesn't count.
20091110 21:36:18< Ivanovic> Soliton: i think Aethaeryn speaks of actual updates, not of "checking if there is an update"
20091110 21:37:25< shadowmaster> well, of course that increases the download counter. I thought you were talking about updating (publishing a new version of) an d
20091110 21:37:32< shadowmaster> rrrrrr
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20091110 21:38:04< shadowmaster> mordante: you also managed to disrupt my wireless  connection
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20091110 21:52:45 * mordante laughs harder ;-)
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20091110 22:05:02< mordante> I'm off night
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20091110 22:16:41< Ivanovic> okay, looks like the mac binary is uploaded, too
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20091110 22:16:51< Ivanovic> announcing 1.7.8 now
20091110 22:25:08< Ivanovic> Soliton: have you already blocked the pre 1.7.8 versions from the dev mp server?
20091110 22:25:19< Ivanovic> major binaries are online and i am currently typing the release announcement
20091110 22:27:56< Soliton> Ivanovic: nope, i'll do that now then.
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20091110 22:41:26< Ivanovic> everyone: announcement post: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27743
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20091110 22:47:17< Ivanovic> and the frontpage is updated, too
20091110 22:47:20 * Soliton wonders since when there is music in the lobby again.
20091110 22:47:25< Ivanovic> esr: please check the stuff for obvious errors
20091110 22:47:39< Ivanovic> Soliton: no idea
20091110 22:47:51< Ivanovic> Soliton: and i vote for using the default playlist there once playing the main menu song is over
20091110 22:48:29-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 66 bugs, 246 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091110 22:49:15< Ivanovic> i hope i made it obvious enough that we want people to test this new release *and* that they are meant to report bugs
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20091110 22:56:21< fendrin> I suggest deleting the main menu song forever. Can't hear it even once more. 
20091110 22:57:12< Soliton> :-)
20091110 23:01:27< Soliton> are we in compatibility freeze now? i.e. should we try to keep 1.7.8 compatible with 1.8?
20091110 23:01:33< Ivanovic> yes
20091110 23:01:39< Ivanovic> that is: wml wise it should be
20091110 23:01:48< Ivanovic> (it should be because of feature freeze anyway ;) )
20091110 23:02:04< Ivanovic> IMO images can still be added, this is fine
20091110 23:07:20< CIA-55> alink * r39676 /trunk/src/ (game_config.cpp game_config.hpp game_display.cpp): 
20091110 23:07:20< CIA-55> for debug highlighting (old feature only accessible to c++ coders):
20091110 23:07:20< CIA-55> remove broken hardcoded misc/cross.png (file was already gone)
20091110 23:07:20< CIA-55> and now use numbers to display debug info.
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20091110 23:10:52< fendrin> Is there code to pick a picture out of a multiimage file?
20091110 23:11:08< Soliton> Ivanovic: you inform packagers not via a mailing list, right? does anyone else have the addresses in case you're not there for a release or such?
20091110 23:11:29< Ivanovic> Soliton: IIRC most of the addresses should be in the wiki
20091110 23:11:38< Ivanovic> fendrin: i don't think so
20091110 23:12:03< Ivanovic> Soliton: don't ask me where and the list is probably outdated (as in "one or two entries might be missing")
20091110 23:12:55< fendrin> wesnoth_trunk/images/icons/icons-abilities.png can be used how?
20091110 23:14:28< Soliton> Ivanovic: maybe put the list somewhere on wesnoth.org?
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20091110 23:15:37< Ivanovic> Soliton: have put it into the home of wesnoth
20091110 23:15:50< Soliton> k
20091110 23:15:54< Ivanovic> (that is my list of stuff i should do to get a release out)
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20091110 23:18:17< Ivanovic> probably not intuitively understandable since some of the stuff varies a little now...
20091110 23:18:28< Ivanovic> (as no longer an exact recipe)
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20091110 23:43:54< fendrin> how can I mark the resoucess::screen "dirty" for triggerin a redraw?
20091110 23:44:56-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091110 23:45:29< alink> fendrin: in WML IIRC there is a [redraw] thing
20091110 23:45:37< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I uploaded the dmg
20091110 23:46:02< fendrin> alink: Right, I will see how it is implemented. Good idea. Thank you.
20091110 23:46:48< alink> fendrin: and if it's in c++, it will depend what you want to redraw
20091110 23:47:58< alink> display::redraw_everything() should work, but that's often overkill
20091110 23:48:06< fendrin> I have set the selected  unit to another one.
20091110 23:48:34< fendrin> What is normaly done by mouse click event handling.
20091110 23:50:12< alink> so maybe just call game_display::select_hex()
20091110 23:50:33< fendrin> alink: select_hex() is the way to go. 
20091110 23:50:48< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: it was already done about two hours ago (when i wrote the announcement)
20091110 23:51:12< fendrin> And now I have learned that draw() works for the old gui code but not for the new. game_display is still old code I believe.
20091110 23:52:03< fendrin> It's working now like I expected. Only a gfx bug still left. And code cleanup. 
20091110 23:52:52< alink> AFAIK new gui is only about dialogs etc.. hex stuff is not affected
20091110 23:54:11< alink> well, not *only*, let's say that it's about everything except the hex stuff :)
20091110 23:55:25< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: ah, good
20091110 23:55:32< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I did it while at a meeting; faster internet :)
20091110 23:55:39< Ivanovic> :)
20091110 23:56:32< crimson_penguin> as I said though, there's that stupid issue... hopefully I can find a fix for that soon
20091110 23:56:47 * crimson_penguin goes for dinner
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 11 00:00:17 2009