--- Log opened Mon Nov 30 00:00:24 2009
20091130 00:01:59< Ivanovic> esr: you saw the two wmlling FRs by espreon?
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20091130 00:02:13< Ivanovic> s/wmlling/wmllint
20091130 00:19:41< esr> Ivanovic: Yes, I've already done one and the other is on my to-do list.
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20091130 00:41:23< Ivanovic> esr: okay
20091130 00:41:39< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: any more betas planned?
20091130 00:41:48< Ivanovic> sure, always
20091130 00:41:50< Ivanovic> ;)
20091130 00:42:12< Aethaeryn> I was just wondering if it was going into 1.7.10 or 1.8.0
20091130 00:42:38< Ivanovic> before there is 1.8.0 there will first be an rc
20091130 00:42:50< Aethaeryn> right.
20091130 00:42:50< Ivanovic> and before we get an rc the lobby has to work "well"
20091130 00:42:58< Aethaeryn> right.
20091130 00:43:06< Aethaeryn> The lobby is the big new feature, after all.
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20091130 00:44:48< AI0867> Aethaeryn: more like, an RC is something that's a candidate for the actual release and the 1.8 won't be released until everything's usable and such
20091130 00:45:09< Aethaeryn> 71 bugs is pretty high.
20091130 00:45:22< Blarumyrran> Will RCs be compatible in every way with 1.8?
20091130 00:45:35< Aethaeryn> iirc, RCs can be played on the stable server
20091130 00:47:10< Aethaeryn> Bah... My only reason for a faster computer would be for faster compile times, but it's a pretty good reason. :S
20091130 00:47:25< Aethaeryn> I started the compile right around when I joined this channel, and it's still going.
20091130 00:47:54< Blarumyrran> Isn't that an excellent reason to use windows!
20091130 00:48:09< AI0867> this here laptop's an EeePC, it's been known to compile for hours if someone goes and changes an important header
20091130 00:48:19< Blarumyrran> (as you can presume people will have done all the hard work for you already)
20091130 00:48:47< Aethaeryn> Actually, it's a reason why not to use Windows. I'm updating SVN right now.
20091130 00:48:54< Aethaeryn> :P
20091130 00:49:22< Aethaeryn> And I prefer to do system updates and SVN updates via the terminal (even IRC!), which pretty much means Linux is much friendlier.
20091130 00:49:40< Aethaeryn> It just finished. Almost 25 minutes of compiling. :(
20091130 00:49:52< Aethaeryn> AI0867: Why netbook?
20091130 00:51:11< AI0867> actually, I got this one so my parents would still have a laptop when I took the other one to FOSDEM09
20091130 00:51:32< Crab_> Aethaeryn: at least, long compile times provide a good incentive to mess up with header interdependencies, hoping to reduce them..
20091130 00:51:52< AI0867> but as it's less than half the size, it's the one I take everywhere these days
20091130 00:52:03< AI0867> though serious development is still done on the other
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20091130 00:52:28< Aethaeryn> idk, my laptop's around 15 inches, but I might actually get a 17ish one for my new one next year.
20091130 00:52:42< AI0867> the older one is 17 inch, this one's 9
20091130 00:52:45< Aethaeryn> I didn't know they made laptops that large until my dad got one custom-order, but it's pretty awesome.
20091130 00:52:55< Aethaeryn> Might even be 18 inch. It's the biggest laptop I've seen.
20091130 00:53:18< AI0867> I see lots of ridiculously huge laptops at university
20091130 00:53:22< Aethaeryn> It's also more powerful than my mom's desktop, which was top of the line a few years ago.
20091130 00:53:40< Aethaeryn> I've never seen any ridiculously huge laptops at mine. Most are smaller laptops, if not netbooks.
20091130 00:53:49< Aethaeryn> I thought that 15.whatever-random-number was big.
20091130 00:54:01< AI0867> gaming machines crammed into a container slightly smaller than a half tower ;)
20091130 00:54:17< Aethaeryn> Eh, even my friend's Alienware wasn't much bigger than my laptop.
20091130 00:54:30< Aethaeryn> All that money into his Alienware and he spent most of his time on his PS3 :P
20091130 00:55:39< Aethaeryn> You know you're a nerd when... you want a powerful computer as a compiling machine, not a gaming machine. ;)
20091130 00:56:28< AI0867> eh, compiling is still best done by a CPU, not a GPU, so the machines aren't the same anyway
20091130 00:56:41< Aethaeryn> Yeah, but I'd still want a better graphics card. 
20091130 00:57:05< Aethaeryn> The Intel on my laptop sucks, both on Windows where 3D lags *and* on Linux where 3D refuses to work.
20091130 00:57:18< AI0867> I have an i915 on both laptops
20091130 00:57:26< AI0867> they share an X freeze bug too
20091130 00:57:32< Aethaeryn> Besides, my reason to upgrade would be to get a GNOME 3-ready computer. ;)
20091130 00:57:56< AI0867> heh
20091130 00:58:17< Aethaeryn> As soon as I read "GNOME 3 will take advantage of the capabilities of modern graphics cards" and saw in the preview build the true-transparent terminals (only possible with Compiz Fusion before)... I thought "oh shit"
20091130 00:58:29< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, "as a game compiling machine"*
20091130 00:59:33< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: not just games.
20091130 01:02:43< Aethaeryn> But although the panel-replacement-thing for GNOME 3 ran fine when I tested it (besides the obvious lack of customization and features that a year of polishing would give it), I bet some of that "customization and features" will force my current laptop to another desktop environment unless I get a new computer next summer/fall. And I don't like KDE 4, Enlightenment (promising but lacking), or XFCE.
20091130 01:09:48< AI0867> Aethaeryn: ratpoison!
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20091130 02:04:36< mathstuf> AI0867: i use ratpoison and kwin (ratpoison on the netbook), very different ;)
20091130 02:05:01< mathstuf> i couldn't stand gnome-shell at all
20091130 02:05:10< mathstuf> no keyboard accessibility
20091130 02:05:32< mathstuf> windows key lost as a modifier to be the shortcut for the activities thing
20091130 02:05:37< mathstuf> and no option i found
20091130 02:05:41< mathstuf> (gconf doesn't count)
20091130 02:05:44< AI0867> this netbooks runs ratpoison, xterm and vimperator
20091130 02:05:51< mathstuf> i have arora
20091130 02:05:55< mathstuf> and urxvt
20091130 02:06:02< mathstuf> other than that, probably very similar :)
20091130 02:06:43< AI0867> the bigger laptop runs KDE3, konsole and ordinary iceweasel though
20091130 02:07:01< mathstuf> i use konqueror, kwin, and yakuake on the more capable machines
20091130 02:07:28< mathstuf> though screen holds a session open for stuff at times
20091130 02:07:38< AI0867> I have yakuake on there too, but I only use it for quick things
20091130 02:07:57< mathstuf> i like it more than free-floating terminals :)
20091130 02:08:09< mathstuf> and its everywhere
20091130 02:08:12< AI0867> free floating?
20091130 02:08:13< mathstuf> instead of just one desktop
20091130 02:08:15< AI0867> maximized
20091130 02:08:20< mathstuf> eeg
20091130 02:08:33< mathstuf> i can't do that when the resolution is too high
20091130 02:08:37< mathstuf> the netbook is fine
20091130 02:08:40< mathstuf> its screen is small
20091130 02:08:40< AI0867> I want as much code on my screen as I can
20091130 02:08:46< mathstuf> i just use 8pt :)
20091130 02:08:49< mathstuf> or 6
20091130 02:08:51< mathstuf> can't remember
20091130 02:09:07< mathstuf> 6
20091130 02:09:52< mathstuf> 41% wide by 55% tall and its 114x39 characters
20091130 02:10:38< mathstuf> 284x78 if maximized
20091130 02:13:03< mathstuf> Aethaeryn: as for the everything-recompiles-on-one-header-change thing, i noticed that too
20091130 02:13:04< AI0867> 169x45, maximized on this netbook
20091130 02:13:10< AI0867> default fontsize though
20091130 02:13:34< mathstuf> i may go through and remove all the unnecessary header inclusions (i have one patch so far, looking to get more involved)
20091130 02:13:48< AI0867> there's an automated tool for that
20091130 02:14:08< AI0867> though what compiles on one platform doesn't automatically work on another
20091130 02:14:42< mathstuf> well, gcc 4.4 has gotten stricter with includes and such
20091130 02:14:51< AI0867> so it's usually followed by commits from others throwing stuff back in
20091130 02:15:01< mathstuf> and it'd be a patch anyways, so it'd get reviews im sure :)
20091130 02:15:20< mathstuf> preferably by different compiler/OS users
20091130 02:15:33< mathstuf> s/different/various/
20091130 02:16:32< AI0867> patches are generally tested by the developer who applies them, which tends to be boucman
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20091130 02:57:40< CIA-62> alink * r40023 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: ooops remove debug output forgotten in r40021
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20091130 04:41:48< Aethaeryn> oooh, I found a lobby bug.
20091130 04:42:06< Aethaeryn> I'll try to reproduce it in the next few days though
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20091130 06:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 70 bugs, 249 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091130 09:51:37< fendrin> alink: I am not sure what to tell you. Start HttT, enable the debug mode, create a unit and switch with n to the next scenario. Use a debugger to see that the unit's unit_map is a nullpointer.
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20091130 10:50:08< CIA-62> ivanovic * r40024 /trunk/ (19 files in 18 dirs): updated Russian translation
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20091130 13:19:25< teaser> hi, how can I force scons to recompile everything? (i've made a few changes but not on the source code only in supporting files (game-config.cfg, and a Makefile for icons)?
20091130 13:20:15< loonycyborg> Then why do you need a recompile?
20091130 13:21:13< loonycyborg> My favorite way of achieving a full recompile is rm -rf build
20091130 13:28:07< teaser> loonycyborg: well I made some graphical changes (adding an icon and changing the icons name to the bew icon in some places) that didn't go through, so I think that I need to recompile
20091130 13:29:11< loonycyborg> You don't need a recompile if you only changed .cfg files.
20091130 13:29:36< teaser> ah, I know, but I also changed a makefile in the data/icons-dir
20091130 13:29:45< grzywacz> scons doesn't use makefiles
20091130 13:30:21< teaser> oh, ok, so then I should check out the scons buildscripts instead. ofc! my mistake
20091130 13:31:06< loonycyborg> It doesn't do anything to icons except installing them.
20091130 13:33:10< teaser> well, I assume it somehow gets told what icons it should install, so if I add a new icon I need to tell it what icon that is? I will research this a bit and if I can't find a clean way to achieve what I want I'll use an ugly one ;)
20091130 13:34:00< grzywacz> I'm guessing it installs all it finds...
20091130 13:36:50< loonycyborg> No. It installs only wesnoth-icon.png but it can be changed to install an other icon too..
20091130 13:39:03< loonycyborg> Though that icon only have any effect since it's referenced from .desktop file AFAIK
20091130 13:39:43< loonycyborg> Not sure whether the setting in game-config.cfg has any effect..
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20091130 13:42:43< loonycyborg> It doesn't seem to affect the window's icon.
20091130 13:46:31< teaser> nope, it doesn't, and I am trying to find a way to make it affect that without just overwriting the old with the new 
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20091130 13:47:53< loonycyborg> Maybe it's hardcoded somewhere in the source..
20091130 13:50:55< teaser> yeah, maybe, but grep couldn't find any references to it. I suspect it references game-config.cfg thats why I want to rebuild everything without having changed any sources
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20091130 13:53:06< loonycyborg> Try looking for wesnoth-icon-small.png instead :P
20091130 13:56:02< loonycyborg> It's referenced in game-config.cpp and probably is used as window icon.
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20091130 14:30:03< teaser> loonycyborg: do you have a moment to check out some code?
20091130 14:30:41< loonycyborg> Yes.
20091130 14:30:54< teaser> ok, I'll paste some pseudocode soon then...
20091130 14:37:08< teaser> ok, loonycyborg here it is: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d2a92b6ce
20091130 14:40:54< loonycyborg> Note that if blocks don't work outside functions.
20091130 14:41:27< teaser> ok, so how do you that in c++ then?
20091130 14:41:47< loonycyborg> Probably preprocessor macros should be used in game_config.cpp
20091130 14:42:43< teaser> ok, that is way out of my leauge ;) could I use an if inside load_config?
20091130 14:44:05< teaser> but I just realised that would be ugly too, it seems I will have to hope that someone else will fix this... :(
20091130 14:51:23< loonycyborg> It looks like preprocessor won't be useful here too since version is defined as a string, and preprocessor isn't sophisticated enough to extract major/minor components from it :(
20091130 14:52:46< teaser> ok, I've updated a FR on gna with my findings, maybe you could add a comment about that too: https://gna.org/bugs/?14864
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20091130 15:04:36< teaser> Soliton; could you pls update the iPhone announcement to include a link to the iwesnoth trac, etc (http://wesnoth.repositoryhosting.com/trac/wesnoth_wesnoth/)
20091130 15:04:51 * teaser is tired of all the iphone threads in the forums
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20091130 15:44:16< Soliton> teaser: done.
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20091130 16:23:02< fendrin> hello
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20091130 17:45:26< Ivanovic> hi
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20091130 18:33:04-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091130 18:33:13< silene> hi
20091130 18:34:19< Ivanovic> silene: can you mabye have a look at this bug report? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14833
20091130 18:36:10< silene> Ivanovic: not before a few days; i haven't finished taking care of the urgent stuff that accumulated during my 2-week hike
20091130 18:36:19< Ivanovic> okay, sure
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20091130 18:47:54< fendrin> silene: your code worked like a charm. There was only one little bug in it.
20091130 18:50:24-!- giusef [n=giusef@unaffiliated/giusef] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091130 18:50:35< fendrin> hi alink
20091130 18:50:44< fendrin> I left you a message in the chat.
20091130 18:53:46< silene> fendrin: great, please post the fixed version in the bug report then, so that it can be used as a reference if needed
20091130 18:54:17< fendrin> silene: okay
20091130 18:55:10< alink> hello fendrin
20091130 18:55:29< alink> I saw it, still don't see anything wrong in code but will test
20091130 18:56:31< fendrin> alink: That is why I bother you, I can't see anything wrong either.
20091130 18:57:42< alink> maybe double-check your debugger test, here my debug output seems to indicate that all is fine
20091130 19:00:35< alink> here is simple test http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2551ccaa
20091130 19:00:50< alink> just select unit to output their units_ field
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20091130 19:12:27< mordante> servus
20091130 19:14:12< fendrin> alink: Okay, thanks. I will investigate, maybe it's something local here. It's just that my new code works with normaly recruited/recalled units but not with debug created ones. I thought that the issue would also be present in trunk.
20091130 19:14:27< alink> hi mordante
20091130 19:14:34< mordante> hi alink 
20091130 19:15:38< alink> fendrin: ok
20091130 19:19:30< fendrin> esr: ping
20091130 19:30:45< mathstuf> alink: i have a patch for the move_left -> move_cost rename; is that all there is to it?
20091130 19:33:39< alink> mathstuf: thanks, that's indeed an old problem, but not sure what is the current state. Are you referring to a bugreport?
20091130 19:34:18< mathstuf> EasyCoding wiki page
20091130 19:37:53< alink> mathstuf: mmh IIRC in the mean time some cleaning was already done there. Can you post your patch on gna to see what was still wrong
20091130 19:38:13< mathstuf> sure
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20091130 19:41:47< mathstuf> alink: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1379
20091130 19:43:07< alink> ok thanks, will read it
20091130 19:44:39< mathstuf> if i have a patch on a bug, should i also paste to the patches section? ( https://gna.org/bugs/?14765 )
20091130 19:46:26< alink> this is often better to post patch in patch section and mentioning the bug number there. It's also good to add a comment in the bug pointing to your submitted patch
20091130 19:47:01< alink> IIRC gna has some auto conversion from text "bug #12345" to hyperlink
20091130 19:47:12< mathstuf> ok, will do
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20091130 19:58:38< alink> mathstuf: about your move_cost patch. the pathfinding part has already been cleaned and thus has already a correct "move_left" meaning.
20091130 19:59:00< alink> the first AI part seems to be good too, no change needed there
20091130 19:59:09< mathstuf> ok
20091130 19:59:23< alink> however the todo in context.cpp looks still valid
20091130 19:59:49< alink> the code seems actually wrong there now
20091130 20:00:04< alink> but it's more a logic conversion than a rename
20091130 20:00:07< mathstuf> i changed the move_left to move_cost and fixed the build errors from it
20091130 20:00:40< mathstuf> ah, so have to do a max_move - move_cost type thing now?
20091130 20:01:04< alink> yep , i think so, but i don't well that part of AI code
20091130 20:02:02< alink> perhaps, ask Crab_ about it or start to study its logic yourself to see what make more sense
20091130 20:02:20< mathstuf> ok
20091130 20:02:55< alink> but the max_move - move_cost seems to be a good guess
20091130 20:03:35< mathstuf> I'll test it out and see if the AI is just confused :)
20091130 20:03:38< alink> btw if you change the AI logic, could be useful to create a test case showing how the change affect AI behavior
20091130 20:03:49< alink> some debug output can be useful too
20091130 20:03:52< mathstuf> ok
20091130 20:03:56-!- Crab_ [i=crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091130 20:04:28< alink> hello Crab_, good timing
20091130 20:04:40< Crab_> hello
20091130 20:04:49< mathstuf> indeed :)
20091130 20:05:13< mathstuf> im working on doing the move_left -> move_cost rename
20091130 20:06:00< Crab_> I'll take a look at the patch
20091130 20:06:09< mathstuf> one other change that probably needs to happen is a (move_max - move_cost) now?
20091130 20:06:10< alink> he possibly spoted a bug in suitable_keep()
20091130 20:06:58-!- noy [n=Noy@70.70.128.133] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091130 20:07:17< Crab_> what kind of bug ?
20091130 20:07:51< alink> the  "const int cost_to_loc = dest.move_left;" is possibly wrong now
20091130 20:07:58< mathstuf> wouldn't say "spotted" so much as "drew attention to" ;)
20091130 20:08:29< alink> move_left seems to be really move_left these days
20091130 20:10:24< shadowmaster> I need a C++ guru.
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20091130 20:11:22< alink> so in this case, suitable_keep rating is inverted, probably also mixed with some modulo operation on MP for each distance needing >1 turn
20091130 20:11:31< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: What for?
20091130 20:11:39< mathstuf> shadowmaster: isn't there some rule about asking to ask? ;)
20091130 20:12:25< shadowmaster> mathstuf: yes, and I'm one of the people who preach that rule.
20091130 20:12:29< alink> do we have bugreport about AI leader badly choosing keep or something similar ?
20091130 20:12:42< shadowmaster> however, none of you know that I had the question written down in the input line but then I was disconnected from the Intenrnet.
20091130 20:13:10< mathstuf> ah, ok
20091130 20:13:20< Crab_> alink, mathstuf : that part of suitable keep is only for keeps which are reachable in 1 turn.
20091130 20:13:29< Crab_>  so, current logic is indeed wrong, but the consequences are rather small.
20091130 20:13:46< alink> Crab_: ah ok, so less bad
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20091130 20:14:07< Crab_> if two free keeps are reachable in 1 turn, the leader will choose the one which is more away from him.
20091130 20:14:44< Crab_> this is indeed a bug (it's better to choose the nearest one, to allow further maneuvers if they do become necessary)
20091130 20:14:51< shadowmaster> Inter
20091130 20:14:53< shadowmaster> Internet
20091130 20:15:12< shadowmaster> what considerations do I need when using longjmp in C++ ?
20091130 20:15:23< alink> Crab_: he also risk to switch between 2 keeps each time
20091130 20:15:53< Crab_> alink: no, it's not so stupid :) 'if leader already on keep, then return leader_location'
20091130 20:15:55< shadowmaster> in particular, when I want to throw an exception right after returning to a setjmp point.
20091130 20:16:10< alink> Crab_: ah good, but less funny :)
20091130 20:16:22< grzywacz> shadowmaster, why would you use it?
20091130 20:16:29< shadowmaster> because libpng wants me to.
20091130 20:16:38< mathstuf> Crab_: might be useful
20091130 20:16:39 * Crab_ goes on to read the rest of the pieces in the patch..
20091130 20:16:49< mathstuf> if current castle is full, go to the other one
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20091130 20:16:58< mathstuf> unless there's handling for that?
20091130 20:17:00< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Probably using it is a bad idea.
20091130 20:17:16< alink> Crab_: btw checking units around keep is probably more important
20091130 20:18:11< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: I know it's a bad idea! It's not my fault!
20091130 20:18:20< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Though longjmp's map page says that this function conforms to C89, C99 etc :P
20091130 20:18:32< CIA-62> esr * r40025 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: Give wmlflip the ability to apply translations.
20091130 20:18:49< alink> brb
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20091130 20:19:03 * shadowmaster kicks loonycyborg 
20091130 20:19:05< Crab_> mathstuf: no, there's no handling for that at the moment
20091130 20:19:17< shadowmaster> I'm being very specific, I don't need a lecture of why using longjmp is a bad idea :)
20091130 20:19:43< loonycyborg> *man page
20091130 20:19:44< mathstuf> hmm, how much gold the leader has to spend (and what it plans to recruit) could be good as well
20091130 20:19:45< shadowmaster> and honestly, I wonder what the libpng folks were smoking when they decided to use longjmp instead of return values
20091130 20:20:33< mathstuf> shadowmaster: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1376085/c-safe-to-use-longjmp-and-setjmp
20091130 20:20:41< mathstuf> "setjmp()/longjmp() completely subvert stack unwinding and therefore exception handling as well as RAII (destructors in general)."
20091130 20:20:48< grzywacz> Apparently they thought that poor-man's version of exceptions will make the code cleaner than endless forwarding of return values. ;)
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20091130 20:21:07< Crab_> mathstuf: if you want to see more about that, open src/ai/testing/ca.cpp  at line 861
20091130 20:21:41< grzywacz> mathstuf, I'm guessing shadowmaster doesn't want to jump around c++ code :)
20091130 20:22:05< mathstuf> can't blame him
20091130 20:22:09< Crab_> mathstuf: for rca-based ai (new one), move_leader_to_keep_phase::evaluate determines the 'should the leader go to keep?'  part (it should return value >0 to do that)
20091130 20:22:38< mathstuf> but i imagine it'll screw up exceptions
20091130 20:23:18< silene> shadowmaster: you can only use longjmp in C code (in other words, C++ code that doesn't use objects with destructors)
20091130 20:23:51< loonycyborg> How does libpng use them, anyway?
20091130 20:23:53< grzywacz> mathstuf, not if it goes like c++ -> setjmp -> libpng -> longjump -> c++
20091130 20:24:15< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: for signaling that libpng screwed up big time
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20091130 20:24:28< mathstuf> hmm, so the C++ isn't actually touching the longjmp stuff?
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20091130 20:24:40< mathstuf> exception throwing may work
20091130 20:24:58< mathstuf> it may unwind from the wrong place
20091130 20:24:59< shadowmaster> silene: um, okay, but if the method that calls the setjmp doesn't create any objects of its own this should be perfectly safe then?
20091130 20:25:09< silene> shadowmaster: if you want an example of what it looks like to use longjmp in normal C++ code, take a look at scripting/lua.cpp (search for gotos)
20091130 20:25:20< shadowmaster> and let's say that I also throw a exception after returning from setjmp.
20091130 20:25:48< silene> shadowmaster: no, that's not enough, none of the functions between setjmp and longjmp must create objects with destructors
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20091130 20:26:22< shadowmaster> no problem with allocating some POD variable though?
20091130 20:26:50< silene> no problem, pod variables are C code
20091130 20:28:00< mordante> I'm off bye
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20091130 20:30:29< silene> shadowmaster: throwing an exception after setjmp doesn't cause any issue, it will work fine (setjmp isn't anything special, it's just a function that fills a user buffer)
20091130 20:31:24< CIA-62> fendrin * r40026 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW3: Load only a subset of the map.
20091130 20:32:00< silene> (in other words, setjmp is similar to memset, from a side-effect point of view)
20091130 20:32:45< shadowmaster> I mean, throwing a exception after returning to a setjmp conditional indicating that longjmp has returned.
20091130 20:33:24< silene> that's fine too
20091130 20:34:10< silene> (except maybe with one of windows exception handling system, i never tried to understand the difference between the two of them)
20091130 20:34:54< shadowmaster> I hope to never have to work with that :P
20091130 20:36:44< silene> just checked, it may break hard if you are using longjmp in a seh-style exception handling
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20091130 20:41:16< Crab_> mathstuf: thanks for the patch. I've added a comment to patch page.
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20091130 20:43:02< mathstuf> cool, I'll look at that tonight then
20091130 20:43:09< Crab_> mathstuf: please mention if you're going to continue with the patch, or whether I should clean up the things that you discovered.
20091130 20:43:40< mathstuf> id like to, but if something happens with time, I'll let you know
20091130 20:45:32< shadowmaster> what patch are we talking about? ;)
20091130 20:45:46< Crab_> mathstuf: ok, thanks
20091130 20:45:57< Crab_> shadowmaster: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1379
20091130 20:47:02< shadowmaster> mathstuf: have you submitted other patches before of this is your first one?
20091130 20:47:21< shadowmaster> it's lacking an about.cfg diff for the Miscellaneous Contributors section.
20091130 20:47:27< mathstuf> there's another 1380 i think
20091130 20:47:57< mathstuf> i have the hunk sitting here, wasn't sure which to put it with
20091130 20:48:12< mathstuf> I'll add the hunk to the next revision of 1379
20091130 20:48:37< shadowmaster> okay, also, do you have a forum account? (not required, just asking)
20091130 20:48:53< mathstuf> not yet
20091130 20:50:22< mathstuf> 1380 will probably go later since it has string additions
20091130 20:51:06< mathstuf> i can fix it up to just say nothing about it when its < 0 gold for 1.8
20091130 20:51:40< Crab_> mathstuf: note that in 1379 you don't need the ' move_left -> move_cost rename ' - you'd probably only need to reverse the comparison sign unless you get fancy and try to rework that function fully to allow the AI to smarty pick another keep if current one is full.
20091130 20:52:41< mathstuf> ok
20091130 20:53:29< Crab_> mathstuf: but, 'smarty pick another keep if current one is full' is an interesting thing with many small subtle things to consider
20091130 20:54:28< Crab_> for example, if current keep is full but the units which are on keep are ours and still can move, it is not worth it to try to get to another keep to recruit - it's better to say that suitable_keep:= current keep and wait till those units move away.
20091130 20:55:07< mathstuf> another thing that comes to mind is if its advantageous to buy things that fit in the available space, don't bother
20091130 20:55:19< mathstuf> or if you're not going to buy anything anyways
20091130 20:55:42< Crab_> mathstuf: note src/ai/testing/ca.cpp  line 861
20091130 20:55:58< mathstuf> opened in vim :)
20091130 20:56:49< Crab_> if this function returns value >0 ( for example, get_score()) , then the ai will try to move leader to keep which is selected in this function
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20091130 20:58:08< Crab_> note that it uses suitable_keep to determine 'where to go?'
20091130 20:59:11< mathstuf> yeah, saw that; seems to just return 1 location
20091130 20:59:15< Crab_> mathstuf: note how 'if its advantageous to buy things that fit in the available space, don't bother' behavior arises
20091130 21:00:02< Crab_> if we are now on keep, then suitable_keep returns leader's location,  then "if(leader->first != keep) {" part is skipped and this function returns BAD_SCORE
20091130 21:01:02< Crab_> then, (look at data/ai/dev/testing_ai_default.cfg ), other possible actions will be considered
20091130 21:01:25< Crab_> also note (from the same data/ai/dev/testing_ai_default.cfg ), that 'recruitment' is higher-priority than moving leader to keep
20091130 21:02:33< Crab_> so, that part of ai looks like: 1) IF we have goto movements, do them 2) else IF we should recruit, do it  3) else, if we should move leader to leader_goal, do it 4) else, if we should move leader to keep, do it 5) else if we can fight, do it 6) ...
20091130 21:03:17< Crab_> so, if we have available space and gold and it's advantageous to recruit something, it will be done in (2), before we even consider (4) 'if we should move leader to keep, do it'
20091130 21:03:33< mathstuf> ah
20091130 21:04:01< mathstuf> maybe a "reconsider recruitments" phase after the keep phase?
20091130 21:04:20< Crab_> mathstuf: it was needed with old ai, but it is not necessary with the new ai
20091130 21:04:32< Crab_> since each turn, we consider things from (1)
20091130 21:05:09< Crab_> so, if after a 'move leader to keep' move it becomes possible to recruit, we'll do it
20091130 21:05:53< mathstuf> ok
20091130 21:06:13< Crab_> so, the turn sequence might look like 'do goto movements;  recruit; recruit; move leader to keep; recruit; recruit;...'
20091130 21:06:19< fendrin> Crab_: We still have a double Cleodil one spawned on field, one left in the recall list in LoW 21.
20091130 21:06:35< mathstuf> so if i do get the leader to go to another adjacent keep, it'll all be taken care of automatically?
20091130 21:06:39< Crab_> fendrin: yes, I still have a patch for it pending
20091130 21:06:54< Crab_> mathstuf: yes
20091130 21:07:00< mathstuf> ok
20091130 21:07:32< Crab_> mathstuf: now, if current keep is full, then the leader will not seek another. this is not always good.
20091130 21:08:42< Crab_> it is 'ok' in case those units in keep still can move. because then the turn sequence will be: "check recruitment -> not possible; check move to keep -> already on keep; check combat ; ... ; check moves -> move units from keep; check recruitment -> possible, so recruit; ... "
20091130 21:09:17< fendrin> Crab_: Do you agree that it is a more or less simple wml issue and no engine bug?
20091130 21:09:18< Crab_> mathstuf: but if those units are recruited this turn (so,they can't move away), the ai will behave stupidly if another nearby keep is available.
20091130 21:09:54< Crab_> fendrin: I am going to simplify things from the engine side, and then deal with WML.
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20091130 21:10:13< mathstuf> when is the leader's actions looked at?
20091130 21:10:26< mathstuf> after other units? before? or some scoring function?
20091130 21:10:29< Crab_> fendrin: I agree that it's possible to solve the issue via WML changes/workarounds.
20091130 21:11:08< Crab_> mathstuf: it is done in a thing called 'candidate action evaluation loop'. this look has a config. see data/ai/dev/testing_ai_default.cfg for an example config
20091130 21:12:05< mathstuf> ah, i see
20091130 21:12:12< mathstuf> that's not just the leader's actions
20091130 21:12:38< Crab_> yes
20091130 21:13:43< Crab_> you can imagine it this way: there's a room with a computer running wesnoth. there's a large number of people standing nearby. each person looks at the game situation and says 'I can do something worth X points'.
20091130 21:14:19< Crab_> and the person which says a highest score gets to play for a while (until he does all moves that he wanted to do)
20091130 21:14:32< Crab_> each person is a 'candidate action'
20091130 21:14:34< fendrin> Crab_: Do you know the exact reason why cleodil is doubled?
20091130 21:15:35< Crab_> fendrin: at least some of the doublings (or triplings) are attributed to persistence changes in saves which were played in several wesnoth releases.
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20091130 21:18:11< Crab_> fendrin: then, some of the doublings are attributed to a wrong SUF which was shipped in 1.7.6
20091130 21:18:27< Crab_> see r38918
20091130 21:18:53< fendrin> Crab_: I debug next through the campaign right now, that can not be the cause for the doubling.
20091130 21:18:55< mathstuf> Crab_: so the leader should say "if i can get over there, i can recruit stuff, heres a high score", but checking to see if the current castle is blocked up makes it say "I'll wait for things to clear out, BAD_SCORE" if things can move out yet
20091130 21:19:17< Crab_> fendrin: get me a how-to-reproduce, I'll say, why it happens.
20091130 21:19:27< Crab_> mathstuf: exactly
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20091130 21:20:34< fendrin> Crab_: I just switched to debug mode and skiped every scenario up to 21.
20091130 21:20:59< Crab_> ok, will try to do the same
20091130 21:21:12< fendrin> For testing the recall list I created some units with the debug create unit dialog.
20091130 21:24:51< fendrin> Crab_: scenario 22 is totaly freaked out. Every persistent side seems to have the same recruit list. There are several units with the same name recruited.
20091130 21:26:29< Crab_> fendrin: that must be solved. if you point me to a good description on what should be happening with recruit/recall lists in those last scenarios, I'll solve those issues.
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20091130 21:29:52< CIA-62> esr * r40027 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: Catch two other kinds of coordinate reference.
20091130 21:32:56< fendrin> Crab_: Kalenz should have the druids and thier advancements + Andulias + cleodil with him.
20091130 21:33:13< Crab_> what about other loyals ?
20091130 21:33:27< fendrin> Kalenz army is splitt in 2, one part is with landar, the other one is with uradredia.
20091130 21:33:39< fendrin> I am not sure.
20091130 21:33:51< fendrin> I would say they should all go to uradredia
20091130 21:34:11< fendrin> I believe the current code does that.
20091130 21:34:29< Crab_> so, actually , we want to split the army into 3 ?
20091130 21:34:31< fendrin> or tries to do that 
20091130 21:34:53< fendrin> Right
20091130 21:35:08< Crab_> 1) shamans and their advancements + Andulias + cleodil -> Kalenz; 2) other loyals plus half an army -> uradredia; 3) others -> landar ?
20091130 21:37:02< fendrin> yes, that is the plan.
20091130 21:37:05< shadowmaster> what a shame, the Posting Guidelines produce invalid XHTML ;)
20091130 21:37:11< Crab_> shadowmaster: lol
20091130 21:37:27< Crab_> fendrin: and what should happen on LoW 22 ?
20091130 21:38:34< fendrin> Crab_: Well, the wml for all of that is already in place. 
20091130 21:39:28< fendrin> Landar has already his recall list, that seems to work right. But Landar is also doubled. A leading level one landar is recalling the level 3 landar.
20091130 21:40:26< fendrin> I splitt the army in two halves at the end of scenario 19.
20091130 21:41:04< Crab_> via WML array or via persistent sides ?
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20091130 21:42:33< fendrin> Crab_: persistent side.
20091130 21:45:32< fendrin> Crab_: I should add more comments to the code. Can't read it proberly myself anymore.
20091130 21:45:53< Crab_> btw, a different question - in 'human alliance', how is fight of humans vs orcs supposed to go ? should it go without player's intervention  ?
20091130 21:47:03< Crab_> (right now the human ai there is an shining example of stupidity)
20091130 21:49:49< shadowmaster> um, why is the homepage trying to use the XHTML 1.1 DTD?!
20091130 21:50:37< shadowmaster> it is using some stuff that's actually only allowed by the XHTML 1.0 Transitional DTD
20091130 21:51:27< fendrin> Crab_: If you can make it smarter, do so. We can just increase the number of orcs if that is necessary.
20091130 21:51:39< shadowmaster> okay, now the homepage will use the 1.0 Transitional DTD like the Glamdrol and forum templates
20091130 21:52:08< Crab_> fendrin: that's why I'm asking about how that fight should go - it should be just a 'show' or the player is supposed to intervene there ?
20091130 21:52:17< shadowmaster> a validation wreck, this is.
20091130 21:52:21< Crab_> fendrin: note: human alliance exnibits a 'map resize' glitch with unremoveable black shroud on left
20091130 21:53:53< shadowmaster> fixed all.
20091130 21:54:39< fendrin> Crab_: I will fix that with soon.
20091130 21:55:26< Crab_> fendrin: just a IMO: "breaking a siege" map is boring - too little terrain variety - too many 'just open' and 'just forest' space.
20091130 21:55:42< fendrin> Crab_: The player should be forced to get red of the northern orc waves soon so, he manages to help the humans in the south, because they loose over the time.
20091130 21:56:08< Crab_> fendrin: ok, understood
20091130 21:57:56< Crab_> fendrin: ah, got it
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20091130 21:58:16< Crab_> in 19_Costly_Revenge.cfg, there's already two cleodils
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20091130 21:58:56< Crab_> hit :inspect at start of the scenario
20091130 22:02:33< Crab_> fixed
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20091130 22:03:06< Crab_> fendrin: see http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m366b5efd
20091130 22:03:42< Crab_> this fixes it from WML side. my c++ change to team construction will make such bugs impossible, too.
20091130 22:06:40< Crab_> fendrin: what happens: 1 cleodil stands in recall list; another one is created by [unit] (create-or-recall semantics doesn't kick in due to absence of find_vacant), so we have 2 cleodils, both of them are placed into 'faeries' WML array - voila, double-faerie-magic )
20091130 22:07:26< fendrin> Crab_: understood.
20091130 22:07:54< Crab_> (please commit this workaround for now)
20091130 22:08:08< fendrin> yes
20091130 22:08:11< Crab_> thanks
20091130 22:08:24< fendrin> I have to thank you :-)
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20091130 22:08:58< Crab_> np. finding this one was real easy thanks to :inspect letting me see all those WML variables
20091130 22:11:30< fendrin> yeah, inspect is great.
20091130 22:18:02< Crab_> ok, now looking at northern battle glitches..
20091130 22:18:49< Crab_> umm, hit a gui2 assert..
20091130 22:19:46 * alink didn't know about :inspect, look very handy
20091130 22:20:17< Crab_> alink: note that it can be also used as [inspect] WML tag - e.g. to allow that window to pop up inside event processing
20091130 22:21:28< Crab_> alink: if you have any ideas towards expanding that gamestate_inspector - you're welcome. ( src/gui/dialogs/gamestate_inspector.?pp )
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20091130 22:23:35< alink> i never thought about using WML to trigger debug test. Maybe i will steal the idea for pathfinding debugging :)
20091130 22:23:35< fendrin> Crab_: Is it able to fire events? 
20091130 22:24:15< alink> Crab_: no idea right now for the gamesate. I don't often work with it.
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20091130 22:24:33< Crab_> fendrin: no, although it's possible to add such a function to it.  you can use lua command-line mode to do that
20091130 22:25:05< Crab_> fendrin: although I plan to add a 'paste WML event code here, we'll fire it now' function to that dialog.
20091130 22:25:22< fendrin> Crab_: great idea.
20091130 22:25:47< Crab_> and actually faster to implement than to recompile after implementing... :)
20091130 22:26:33< CIA-62> esr * r40028 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: Note on two cases wmlflip cannot handle.
20091130 22:26:39< fendrin> Crab_: But the fire event that I mean is a list entry for every event that is specified in the scenario wml.
20091130 22:27:02< Crab_> fendrin: yes, I understand. that'll be another good thing to have.
20091130 22:27:28< fendrin> Crab_: That allows to test every predefined event in the scenario. Usefull if a event is bound to turn 42.
20091130 22:28:03< fendrin> I guess one can change the turn by firing lua events.
20091130 22:28:20< Crab_> fendrin: or fire an event via lua
20091130 22:28:53< fendrin> How can I fire a event by lua that is on disk?
20091130 22:29:01< Crab_> fendrin: actually, as you might remember from our earlier discussions, the long-term goal for event handling in gamestate_inspector is to allow hot-redeployment of certain WML events.
20091130 22:29:28< Crab_> fendrin: silene is the best person to ask about lua here  :)
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20091130 22:32:34< fendrin> Crab_: Right I remember, we talked about that before.
20091130 22:36:00< CIA-62> fendrin * r40029 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 3: Used wmlflip to transform the wml coordinates to match the map transformation.
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20091130 22:36:26< YogiHH> hello
20091130 22:36:30< fendrin> YogiHH: hi 
20091130 22:37:26< Crab_> hi, YogiHH
20091130 22:38:59< CIA-62> fendrin * r40030 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/19_Costly_Revenge.cfg: LoW 19 and further: Fixed double Cleodil.
20091130 22:39:35< alink> hello YogiHH, I recently fixed a savegame bug and i had a question about how the result of event are saved
20091130 22:40:16< YogiHH> alink: so what is your question exactly?
20091130 22:40:36< alink> if an event modify a ToD area, we need to save that new ToD area in the "snapshot" of the gamestate at the point where we save, right?
20091130 22:41:42< alink> and in replay, we start with an untouched map and the event will be replayed and change the ToD area
20091130 22:41:46< fendrin> Crab_: The double Landar in scenario 22 is called directly from a [side] as the leader. There find_vacant isn't recognized, right?
20091130 22:42:29< Crab_> fendrin: there are some very evil things done when the leader is in [side]
20091130 22:42:32< YogiHH> alink: yes, that's how it's supposed to be
20091130 22:43:13< fendrin> Crab_: But that is the default. Maybe that issue is a blocker for 1.8 then.
20091130 22:43:43< alink> YogiHH: ok, then all is fine then. It was bug #14859 btw. I once mentioned it to you, but couldn't reproduce it until i understood the link with event
20091130 22:44:02< Crab_> fendrin: no, there are workarounds. and, my c++ patch which will clean things up will be done before 1.8
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20091130 22:44:34< fendrin> Crab_: The workaround would be that I put the landar in [unit] and add a no_leader=yes ?
20091130 22:45:17< Crab_> something like this
20091130 22:45:29< fendrin> okay, thanks.
20091130 22:45:36< alink> wesbot: seen Sapient
20091130 22:45:36< wesbot> alink: The person with the nick Sapient 5d 20h ago person left:
20091130 22:50:06< CIA-62> alink * r40031 /trunk/src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Add a 'temporary unit mover'.
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20091130 22:54:37< CIA-62> alink * r40032 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: 
20091130 22:54:37< CIA-62> Fix bug #14865: Move and Attack into hex with ambusher causes crash
20091130 22:54:37< CIA-62> Also make that code more safe against unexpected cases.
20091130 22:54:42< boucman> hey all*
20091130 22:55:03< alink> hello boucman
20091130 22:55:09< boucman> my pc just died so i might be without net for the next couple of days, if anything arrives...
20091130 22:55:19< Crab_> hi boucman
20091130 22:58:49< Appleman1234> ouch
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 01 00:00:33 2009