--- Log opened Thu Nov 12 00:00:51 2009
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20091112 00:46:02< ben_m> Ghosts basically own me every game, no matter what race I am
20091112 00:48:29< Aethaeryn> ben_m: Mages. Burners. Ulfs-at-day
20091112 00:48:37< Aethaeryn> And orcish archers.
20091112 00:48:45< Aethaeryn> There you go, every faction's counter.
20091112 00:48:58< Aethaeryn> not to mention that three of those four counters are the same price as or cheaper than ghosts
20091112 00:49:10< Aethaeryn> four of five if you count dark adepts from Undead mirrors.
20091112 00:49:56< ben_m> Ulfs at day did not work at all
20091112 00:50:03< ben_m> 5 died already, at day.
20091112 00:50:05< ben_m> ..
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20091112 00:50:15< ben_m> Also, my Thunderers hit about every 10th time :/
20091112 00:50:29< Aethaeryn> knalgans suck
20091112 00:50:31< Aethaeryn> what can you say?
20091112 00:50:31< ben_m> haha
20091112 00:50:35< ben_m> Seriously? :/
20091112 00:50:40< Aethaeryn> Thunderers are too luck-dependent
20091112 00:50:45< Aethaeryn> what about poachers?
20091112 00:50:46< ben_m> And I have bad luck.
20091112 00:51:08< ben_m> Might try them
20091112 00:51:09< Aethaeryn> knalgans' problem is that they have no fire and ghosts are really weak to fire
20091112 00:51:17< Aethaeryn> other counters are more obvious, at least.
20091112 00:51:19< ben_m> yeah
20091112 00:51:27< ben_m> i thought ulfs would do it
20091112 00:51:30< ben_m> But they dont at all
20091112 00:51:40< Aethaeryn> heh
20091112 00:51:52< Aethaeryn> poachers and thunderers: kill them in ranged where they can't drain
20091112 00:52:04< Aethaeryn> use a mix, since thunderers do more damage, but poachers are more reliable.
20091112 00:52:11< ben_m> i'll try
20091112 00:52:16< Aethaeryn> ulfs, well, they're *very* luck dependent against ghosts with drain
20091112 00:52:24< Aethaeryn> you'll either kill the ghost or *give* it health
20091112 00:52:55< Aethaeryn> but yes, ghosts are really weak in ranged even if they'll do some damage in ranged
20091112 00:53:03< Aethaeryn> especially to fire or arcane.
20091112 00:53:56< ben_m> I really like the concept of the Ulfs
20091112 00:53:59< ben_m> but they never work out for me
20091112 00:54:21< Aethaeryn> Ulfs are best against ranged specialists
20091112 00:54:23< Aethaeryn> mages, etc.
20091112 00:54:37< Aethaeryn> Knalgans vs. Undead is fun because if Undead has lots of DAs and you have lots of ulfs, it's a bloodbath.
20091112 00:55:12< Aethaeryn> ulfs kill adepts, skeletons kill ulfs, fighters kill skeletons, adepts kill fighters (at night)
20091112 00:55:39< Aethaeryn> admittedly, I'd rather be the Undead side
20091112 00:55:42< ben_m> heh
20091112 00:55:54< Aethaeryn> I can never pull off ghosts though :P
20091112 00:56:17< Aethaeryn> We should start a Noluck Clan that opposes one-strike units like thunderers and other really luck-dependent units.
20091112 00:58:01< ben_m> hehe
20091112 00:58:12< ben_m> Or create a mod to reduce the luck factors
20091112 00:58:17< ben_m> or make them tiny
20091112 00:58:49< Aethaeryn> Nah. As much as I get bad luck...
20091112 00:58:59< Aethaeryn> It keeps things interesting and away from stalemates.
20091112 00:59:10< Aethaeryn> Without luck, two reasonably good players against each other would just go back and forth forever.
20091112 00:59:25< _aD> like me and Graham playing Twister
20091112 00:59:30< Aethaeryn> You need things like an attack that goes horribly wrong where you miss 2/3 of the strikes and don't kill that one unit on a village...
20091112 00:59:42< ben_m> I have that all the time
20091112 00:59:45< ben_m> I miss 3/3 strikes
20091112 00:59:51< ben_m> With 4 thunderers
20091112 00:59:52< ben_m> heh
20091112 01:00:05< Aethaeryn> ben_m: well, consult a spiritual advisor to improve your luck
20091112 01:00:09< ben_m> I shall.
20091112 01:00:09< Aethaeryn> whatever religion you follow ;)
20091112 01:00:12< Aethaeryn> It's not Wesnoth's fault :P
20091112 01:00:23< ben_m> I will pray to $deity
20091112 01:00:27< Aethaeryn> lol
20091112 01:02:37< ben_m> Well, thankfully the Rebel player kills the Ghosts for me
20091112 01:02:48< ben_m> Just that Wraith (...) keeps digging through my dwarfs
20091112 01:02:50< Aethaeryn> Ghosts against rebels is stupid
20091112 01:02:54< Aethaeryn> Because they have so many ranged.
20091112 01:03:05< ben_m> It's a 1v1v1
20091112 01:03:19< Aethaeryn> Ah, that means whoever's winning will be ganged up on and lose :P
20091112 01:03:24< ben_m> Indeed.
20091112 01:03:32< Aethaeryn> Then you have nothing to worry about.
20091112 01:03:43< ben_m> I should give the Rebel some space
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20091112 02:47:32< Benserker> Anyone feel like playing a Beginner? :)
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20091112 10:02:59< Ivanovic> moin
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20091112 10:06:01< Unborn_drake> Hello.
20091112 10:06:50 * Unborn_drake is an average fatassoid, who plays random TBS's like Wesnoth.
20091112 10:07:14 * VurtualRuler98 is very thin
20091112 10:07:18 * VurtualRuler98 sues
20091112 10:10:14< Unborn_drake> Why does Wesnoth use a modular system? that could lead to CHEATING
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20091112 10:11:35< zookeeper> "a modular system" meaning what?
20091112 10:12:03< Unborn_drake> all the user-made addons... eras and other stuff
20091112 10:12:54< zookeeper> how could user-made add-ons lead to cheating?
20091112 10:13:28< Unborn_drake> how? unfair advantage... lots of ways
20091112 10:13:33< zookeeper> no
20091112 10:13:57< Unborn_drake> >=- >=- >=- >=-
20091112 10:14:19< Ivanovic> Unborn_drake: it is not possible that one user uses an addon and others not
20091112 10:14:32< Ivanovic> Unborn_drake: and if the stats differ you will not be able to finish a game
20091112 10:14:44< Ivanovic> since the game is calculated with the data each machine has
20091112 10:15:34< Ivanovic> so if on box A it says that the elvish fighter hits 500 times, each doing 500 damage (basically instant kill of the enemy unit...) this will not result in the same on the others machine, where the unit will probably still be alive
20091112 10:15:49< Unborn_drake> not possible? what if the addon is not in gameplay data? like a hirebot
20091112 10:15:51< Ivanovic> on box B you just see the unit being hit normally, surviving and being able to attack later
20091112 10:16:14< Ivanovic> Unborn_drake: an addon does not modify the normal data
20091112 10:16:16< zookeeper> Unborn_drake, really, you just don't know how multiplayer works
20091112 10:16:27< zookeeper> (besides wtf is a hirebot?)
20091112 10:16:31< Ivanovic> it is an addon which has to specifically be chosen to be used and will then be used by *all* players
20091112 10:16:57< Unborn_drake> a hirebot goes by keyboard combos and spams the battlefield with cheap units
20091112 10:17:19< zookeeper> then the other players' clients will tell them that you're doing something impossible
20091112 10:17:57< zookeeper> and you can't have a meaningful game anyway since they never see those units
20091112 10:18:06< zookeeper> so no, you can't cheat that way
20091112 10:19:08< Unborn_drake> hirebot goes as a hiring macro with ctrl+r > up/down keys > enter key.
20091112 10:19:32< zookeeper> wow. good thing that wesnoth doesn't have "hiring macros".
20091112 10:21:08< Unborn_drake> hiring macro can be any macro of a few keyboard combinations. And a tiny addon that adds "/hirenow" command into the game
20091112 10:21:10< zookeeper> wait, what, did you actually mean that a wesnoth hirebot would just recruit a unit for you with a keypress?
20091112 10:21:23< zookeeper> why the hell would anyone ever want to use something like that?
20091112 10:22:34< Unborn_drake> You are going AFK (toilet or something) and launch a hirebot to hire units for you then end turn
20091112 10:22:45< zookeeper> yeah and then you'd lose the game
20091112 10:22:48< zookeeper> what's the point?
20091112 10:23:39< Unborn_drake> you need a 3-minute AFK time, and your next turn is likely to be in 10 minutes.
20091112 10:24:06< Unborn_drake> like toilet time during a 9player battle
20091112 10:24:33< zookeeper> you aren't really answering my questions
20091112 10:25:44< zookeeper> not to mention that having a bot lose the match for you could hardly be called cheating
20091112 10:25:47< Unborn_drake> For example, you are in a 9-player match. your turn just started but you need to go AFK for about 3 minutes. You launch a hirebot and go away. when you return, it's still a long wait until your next turn
20091112 10:26:24< zookeeper> well you can already just give the AI control of your side
20091112 10:26:24< Unborn_drake> so you get the units hired quickly, while you're actually away
20091112 10:26:30< zookeeper> that's not cheating
20091112 10:27:07< Unborn_drake> that IS cheating as giveAI is a host cmd, not a joiner one
20091112 10:27:44< zookeeper> no, you can use :droid to make the AI play your side even if you're not the host
20091112 10:27:46< zookeeper> (right?)
20091112 10:28:00< Soliton> yes.
20091112 10:28:08< Soliton> you can only droid your own sides.
20091112 10:29:01< Ivanovic> Unborn_drake: why would something like this be needed anyway?
20091112 10:29:23< Ivanovic> Unborn_drake: if you are "just" recruiting anyway, you can do so before going to toilet and use the following 10mins to go there
20091112 10:29:36< Ivanovic> or you can just tell the players that you are afk for ~5mins and that's it
20091112 10:30:00< Soliton> also, feel free to ignore Unborn_drake he is always that confused. you're not going to get through to him.
20091112 10:30:01< Unborn_drake> but unlike actual AI, a hirebot is a macro that just does a keyboard input to hire units of your choice by a chain of digits, representing unit numbers in hire list.
20091112 10:30:23< zookeeper> ah, right.
20091112 10:30:35 * zookeeper goes do something else
20091112 10:33:36< Unborn_drake> so your command is "/hire 4|4|4|9=5" where = marks "if not enough money".
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20091112 10:35:36< zookeeper> is that bilbo?
20091112 10:36:38< Soliton> pretty sure it is. too lazy to check.
20091112 10:36:50< zookeeper> sounds pretty similar :p
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20091112 14:08:15< ben_m> Where can I find some Knalgan replays of this version? :D
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20091112 14:13:34< Cyber_Rock|pm_me> does anyone know of good team survival maps with multiple levels
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20091112 14:50:58< Cyber_Rock|pm_me> does anyone know good team survival maps with multiple levels
20091112 14:53:47< namad5> nope!
20091112 14:54:00< namad5> in fact i've never seen a map with multiple levels at all what are you talking about?
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20091112 17:47:15< ben_m> Can anyone explain the differences between Init Limit, Reservoir and Turn Bunos?
20091112 17:47:17< ben_m> Bonus*
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20091112 19:26:08< Soliton> ben_m: hover over the sliders to get an explanation.
20091112 19:26:20< ben_m> Yeah they don't really help :/
20091112 19:27:31< Soliton> well, at least init time should be trivial to understand?
20091112 19:27:38< ben_m> yeah
20091112 19:27:56< ben_m> The fourth thing too :)
20091112 19:28:20< Soliton> action bonus? that's actually the most complicated one IMO.
20091112 19:28:33< Soliton> so what don't you understand about the rest?
20091112 19:28:44< ben_m> When you move a unit/capture something/... you get a couple of seconds added to your time.
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20091112 19:31:22< ben_m> So
20091112 19:31:30< ben_m> You have Turn_Bonus seconds each round
20091112 19:31:43< ben_m> And you can add a maximum of Reservoir to that through Action Bonus
20091112 19:32:11< Soliton> you get turn bonus secconds each turn regardless of what you do.
20091112 19:32:57< Soliton> and if the boni add the total up to more than the reservoir time it gets cut back to the reservoir time limit.
20091112 19:33:17< ben_m> Yes, that's what I meant.
20091112 19:33:19< ben_m> Alright, thanks :)
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20091112 20:17:03< unnheulu> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8357454.stm
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20091112 22:19:41< Zarel> Aethaeryn: Hi.
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