--- Log opened Thu Dec 03 00:00:08 2009
--- Day changed Thu Dec 03 2009
20091203 00:00:08< Crab_> fendrin: so, when you, in the WML, move units, but don't move gotos, those gotos become 'outdated'
20091203 00:01:12< Crab_> fendrin: will try a 2-line patch to check this
20091203 00:01:12< Aethaeryn> In other words, I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if you've already put a great deal of thought into this.
20091203 00:02:06< Crab_> Aethaeryn: why ' Crab_ and I thought out a lot of the system, ..' - was that phrase really intended to be spoken to me ?
20091203 00:02:18< Aethaeryn> Uh, more to Ken Oh
20091203 00:02:23< Crab_> ok)
20091203 00:02:25< Aethaeryn> since he did the living villages experiment in 1.4 iirc
20091203 00:02:36< Crab_> 'living villages' ?
20091203 00:02:51< Aethaeryn> Basically, villages that grow and all without intervention by humans.
20091203 00:02:59< Aethaeryn> Exactly what you want for our proposed 1.9 project.
20091203 00:03:51< Aethaeryn> I'm a big proponent for reusing existing code wherever relevent. This will make the project 100x easier.
20091203 00:04:20< Crab_> yes, and it will allow to spend more time on really new and important things
20091203 00:04:22< Aethaeryn> In other words, we want towns and cities that develop their own economies and interact with each other, with alignments to certain factions, etc.
20091203 00:04:53< Aethaeryn> I think by combining Empires (I already adapted it to a scenario in my mappack) village-recruitment system and mixing it a bit with code from the mainline ANL for building villages, most of the era-side is already written.
20091203 00:05:08< Aethaeryn> Which means more time for me to write the new WML.
20091203 00:07:08< fendrin> Crab_: That shouldn't be fixed in the ai section, it's annoying for a human player as well.
20091203 00:07:24< Crab_> fendrin: well, this is totally different problem.
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20091203 00:08:21< Crab_> fendrin: here http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m6809dc48
20091203 00:08:25< Crab_> this fixes it
20091203 00:08:59< fendrin> Aethaeryn: village recruitment system?
20091203 00:09:18< Crab_> fendrin: note that 'ai leaders venturing 1 hex away from keep' is ok- they're sharing their keep with friends.
20091203 00:09:49< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Long story, basically this is for a MP campaign using a new system that Crab_ is going to code for Wesnoth 1.9
20091203 00:10:32< Crab_> fendrin: and note that my patch is somewhat oversimplistic and needs to be done more strictly - it needs to differentiate the case 'is the goto set or not?'
20091203 00:11:46< Crab_> fendrin: e.g if unit has goto at (32,1), it should have goto at (32+offsetX,1+offsetY), but if unit has no goto (-999,-999), it should stay -999,-999
20091203 00:11:48< fendrin> Aethaeryn: I am currently coding recall/recruit dialogs that can be used out of wml. Maybe you should call me what is needed so that our 2 systems match. I thought about producing units in villages like it is done in Warlords.
20091203 00:12:29< Aethaeryn> fendrin: I have already adapted the code into a map in Aethaeryn's Maps, my add-on which is basically a scenario-concept sandbox.
20091203 00:12:30< Crab_> fendrin: although this is not that important as things like -995,-995 are offmap anyway.
20091203 00:12:54< fendrin> Aethaeryn: which code?
20091203 00:12:55< Aethaeryn> I have intended to make it more complex though.
20091203 00:13:22< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Give me a minute to look up the .cfg on SVN
20091203 00:13:37< Aethaeryn> The most useful purpose of wesnoth-umc-dev, imo, is to link to things like a pastebin ;)
20091203 00:14:22< Aethaeryn> fendrin: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/Aethaeryns_Maps/scenarios/5p_Aeth_Empires.cfg?revision=5793&view=markup
20091203 00:14:46< Aethaeryn> Basically, that is already used in several other add-ons for similar effect, I basically just made the menu look a bit nicer.
20091203 00:15:33< Blarumyrran> Blueblaze's Empires did the same, if you've played them
20091203 00:15:38< Aethaeryn> I know.
20091203 00:15:49< Aethaeryn> I could've coded this myself since it's similar to some WML I wrote for a different context, but I didn't want to waste time reinventing the wheel.
20091203 00:16:03< Aethaeryn> I credited Blueblaze in the objectives since he wrote the original.
20091203 00:16:05< Blarumyrran> Reinventing the wheel is fun though
20091203 00:16:30< Blarumyrran> Especially as you understand better what you're building upon if you decide to extend it
20091203 00:16:37< Blarumyrran> Just sayin
20091203 00:16:58< fendrin> Aethaeryn: I am coding in c++ a tag like [unit_input] types=orcish grunt, dwarvish scout, whatever unit that give you the usual recall/recurit dialogue. 
20091203 00:17:09< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: As I've said, it's *very* similar to WML I already wrote to do something similar. Blueblaze even helped me with part of that code. ;)
20091203 00:17:27< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Have you considered having it show the portrait of the unit when you select it?
20091203 00:17:54< fendrin> Aethaeryn: yes, that is already implemented in my branch. Just check it out and have a look. 
20091203 00:18:02< Aethaeryn> ah.
20091203 00:18:28< Aethaeryn> Well, the main difference in my WML is that I did add portraits to have the recruit dialogs look better.
20091203 00:18:37< fendrin> Aethaeryn: That will save you most of the wml code. 
20091203 00:18:46< Aethaeryn> fendrin: And it's 1.9?
20091203 00:18:52< fendrin> Aethaeryn: it will be.
20091203 00:19:00< Aethaeryn> Good.
20091203 00:19:21< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Are you merging it as soon as 1.8 is split from trunk and the feature freeze ends?
20091203 00:19:27< fendrin> Aethaeryn: But I am still not sure what wml tags are needed and what they exactly should do. I am open for suggestions.
20091203 00:19:51< Aethaeryn> fendrin: do you allow for the manipulation of prices?
20091203 00:19:53< fendrin> Aethaeryn: right, I try to get it in after the split of the 1.8 branch.
20091203 00:20:25< Aethaeryn> One of the intended purposes of faction opinions is to allow for things like "They don't really like you, so unit cost is doubled and building cost is tripled."
20091203 00:20:25< Crab_> fendrin: well, I'd say that the dialogue should allow the WML author to prepare the list of units by hand and to handle the selection result(s) by hand.
20091203 00:20:47< fendrin> Aethaeryn: I thought about just pushing units into the interface. That means, you create a unit, change it like you want and I display it to the user. That means you can do that by just changing a unit like used in wml.
20091203 00:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 69 bugs, 250 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091203 00:21:17< Aethaeryn> fendrin: You can modify cost before it shows up on the recruit list?
20091203 00:22:28< fendrin> Aethaeryn: no, but I can realise something like [unit_input] [unit] ... [/unit] .
20091203 00:23:11< fendrin> and unit can be derived from a base unit but have modifications. That should be doable.
20091203 00:24:13< Crab_> fendrin: better [unit_input] some_reference_to_wml_array [/unit_input]
20091203 00:24:20< fendrin> Crab_: yes, the results can be saved in a wml variable.
20091203 00:24:55< Aethaeryn> This is what I have in mind: (1) Recruiting is based on a village that is affiliated with one (or two) faction(s), which you either capture or build ANL-style. (2) If a faction doesn't like you (but doesn't outright hate you), buildings cost 3x and units 2x. If a faction really loves you, you can recruit a bonus unit (e.g. elvish lord). (3) Recruiting units and building buildings modifies the variable that is a faction's opinio
20091203 00:25:27< Aethaeryn> (3) Recruiting units and building buildings modifies the variable that is a faction's opinion of you. In other words, recruit a merman and Merfolk will like you more, but Naga (rivals) will like you less.
20091203 00:25:38< fendrin> I already have a working version that supports [unit_input] SUF. Every unit that matches the filter is shown in the dialog. The map scrools to the location of the unit when selected in the dialog.
20091203 00:25:38< Crab_> fendrin: and, for example, allow to specify 'cost' as cfg["cost"] in the elements of said wml array - then it would be trivial to change those costs as necessary.
20091203 00:26:43< Crab_> fendrin: or use some other WML-only attrib..
20091203 00:27:15< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Anyway, even if it's not as complex of a system as what I have in mind, being able to manipulate prices without requiring a modified unit .cfg file is useful because an unusual recruitment scheme might need unusual balance via prices. It would also get rid of the UtBS system (which might already be abandonned) where there's multiple desert elves of each unit type because they get more expensive as you go along.
20091203 00:29:24< fendrin> Aethaeryn: At the moment I don't do the recruiting in c++. I pass the information back to wml variables to the UML coder is more flexible in what he wants to do.
20091203 00:30:22< Aethaeryn> Is cost modification possible? I do not know if that's a modifiable part of a unit.
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20091203 00:32:33< fendrin> Don't know. But if you create the unit yourself in wml the billing is done there as well. So it is only a matter of displaying the wanted cost. It's not that easy to find a good interface to the system.
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20091203 00:33:27< Crab_> Aethaeryn: it doesn't matter if this is modificable part of the unit or not - since the dialog will deal with WML configs - it's easy enough to add any attributes there, as needed. 
20091203 00:33:54< Aethaeryn> Ah.
20091203 00:34:25< Aethaeryn> fendrin: Btw, if it uses a standard recruit dialog, does that mean that the AI would be able to use it?
20091203 00:34:25< Crab_> Aethaeryn: so, it's a matter of 'what kind of data should be in the WML array which is passed to [unit_input] ?'
20091203 00:34:45< Crab_> Aethaeryn: well, ai ignores dialogs :)
20091203 00:35:12< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Okay, if it uses the standard recruit method in a new way, would it be possible to teach AI unconventional recruiting means?
20091203 00:37:13< Crab_> Aethaeryn: via a hack - of course
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20091203 00:39:47< Aethaeryn> cool.
20091203 00:41:12< Crab_> if we don't care about it being map-specific, then it can be done via adding two formula ai functions like 1) get_choices_for( map_location)  2) fire_allowed_wml_event( parameters )
20091203 00:41:37< Crab_> we just need to make it generic enough to be useful in many different situations
20091203 00:41:48< Crab_> to avoid the need to make a new hack each time we need it..
20091203 00:43:39< fendrin> good night
20091203 00:43:43< Crab_> night
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20091203 00:54:01< CIA-62> crab * r40044 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): various tweaks of ai handling of map changes - solve some problems which might arise if map changes in the middle of the turn thanks to WML events
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20091203 03:25:55< CIA-62> alink * r40045 /trunk/src/ai/default/ (ai.cpp attack.cpp): Stop using unit::type() as a simple getter, because it's rather slow.
20091203 03:27:11< CIA-62> alink * r40046 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Optimize a little registering of specific profile's unit.
20091203 03:30:58< CIA-62> alink * r40047 /trunk/src/ (unit_types.cpp unit_types.hpp): Optimize find_unit_type() by stopping to search the same things 3 times
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20091203 04:02:54< shadowmaster> ./wesnoth: error while loading shared libraries: libboost_iostreams-mt.so.1.35.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or director
20091203 04:03:07< shadowmaster> buaaa, I have to recompile wesnoth 1.6 because I removed boost 1.35 :(
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20091203 04:18:23< sparrowg_> hey, I'm new to cmake
20091203 04:18:31< sparrowg_> could anyone guide me
20091203 04:18:44< sparrowg_> on how to compile wesnoth from source
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20091203 04:28:15< shadowmaster> sparrowg_: have you checked the INSTALL file in wesnoth's source code distribution?
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20091203 04:30:10< sparrowg_> shadowmaster: yes, I'm checking that out. I'll get back if I have trouble.
20091203 04:30:14< sparrowg_> thanks
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20091203 10:48:47< Ivanovic> moin
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20091203 11:44:21< Rhonda> Ivanovic: baby about FOSDEM 2010.
20091203 11:45:03< Ivanovic> "baby about"?
20091203 11:47:08< Rhonda> You asked, "what about", baby is about. http://rhonda.deb.at/photos/2009-09-09/
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20091203 13:01:17< Ivanovic> Rhonda: hui
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20091203 14:31:35< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r40048 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Updated localized images for Italian.
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20091203 17:06:37< Ivanovic> hmm, looks like wesnoth does not build anymore when using boost-1.41.0
20091203 17:08:29< Ivanovic> that is parser/simple_wml seems to break building the server with this new version of boost
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20091203 17:15:40< Ivanovic> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m602e34e6
20091203 17:18:48< loonycyborg> -lboost_iostreams-mt-1_39 -lboost_regex-mt-1_39 <- this is not boost 1.41
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20091203 17:22:21< Ivanovic> hmm, strange one then, yeah, forgot to remove 1.39.0 from my box, doing so now, lets see what happens...
20091203 17:23:07< mjs-de> maybe you had forgotten an eselect boost ?
20091203 17:24:12< Ivanovic> nope, that was done
20091203 17:24:25< Ivanovic> somehow it was still using 1.39.0 even though the default should have been 1.41.0
20091203 17:24:53< loonycyborg> Wesnoth builds for me with 1.41 just fine, though unit tests fail with a warning with strict compilation enabled.
20091203 17:24:54< Ivanovic> removing the old one seems to have done the trick, at least wesnothd was linked now
20091203 17:25:13< Ivanovic> jupp, everything was built nicely now
20091203 17:28:44< CIA-62> ivanovic * r40049 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Russian translation
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20091203 17:43:36< Soliton> Ivanovic: http://gna.org/bugs/?14874
20091203 17:43:59< Soliton> probably an upstream bug?
20091203 17:44:03< Ivanovic> no idea
20091203 17:44:23< Ivanovic> i had to still depend on an "ancient" po4a version because of problems with html generation stuff
20091203 17:44:36< Ivanovic> will check in the next day with the latest version, if it finally works (again)
20091203 17:44:54< Ivanovic> probably something upstream though no idea in which part exactly, probably ettin_ could know this
20091203 17:53:04< Ivanovic> grml
20091203 17:53:25< Ivanovic> oaky, looks like the new po4a version (or one of the other tools used for manual generation) still has some probs
20091203 17:53:39< Ivanovic> just hit one with a tag broken in >1 line...
20091203 17:53:46< Ivanovic> and beside this the ToC is missing
20091203 18:01:00< Ivanovic> grr, okay, might not be the reason for the breakage
20091203 18:01:08< Ivanovic> i got *no* idea what is really broken there though
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20091203 18:43:16< CIA-62> ivanovic * r40050 /trunk/ (293 files in 25 dirs): 
20091203 18:43:16< CIA-62> pot-update (no new/changed strings)
20091203 18:43:16< CIA-62> regenerated doc files
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20091203 19:08:53< mordante> servus
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20091203 19:11:05< mordante> Ivanovic, I indeed plan to go to the fosdem
20091203 19:23:55< Ivanovic> mordante: cool!
20091203 19:24:36< mordante> I look forward to it, was really nice the last years :-)
20091203 19:24:42< Ivanovic> jupp
20091203 19:25:34< Ivanovic> what do you think, will the waiter at the greek restaurant recognize us?
20091203 19:25:34< Ivanovic> ;)
20091203 19:25:45< mordante> :-)
20091203 19:27:03< mordante> would be really funny if he does
20091203 19:30:47< Ivanovic> jupp
20091203 19:31:59< Ivanovic> and we should book the rooms/beds really soon
20091203 19:32:23< mordante> jupp
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20091203 21:37:21< AI0867> Ivanovic: I also intend to go to FOSDEM'10
20091203 21:37:29< Ivanovic> AI0867: cool
20091203 21:39:31< fendrin> AI0867: superp
20091203 21:40:25< shadowmaster> nice
20091203 21:40:58< grzywacz> Oh, I frogot to ask. Who's coming?
20091203 21:42:43< mordante> grzywacz, I'll be there, you too?
20091203 21:43:20< grzywacz> mordante, I'm wondering whether to come. It's time to book a ticket if I want to get it cheap...
20091203 21:44:19< mordante> guess then you have to book ;-)
20091203 21:44:24< grzywacz> :-P
20091203 21:44:37< grzywacz> deekay, are you going?
20091203 21:47:51< Ivanovic> grzywacz: ilor already said that he has exams that weekend (the monday right afterwards)
20091203 21:48:05< Ivanovic> grzywacz: i think deekay already said that he might have exams then
20091203 21:48:12< Ivanovic> not sure though
20091203 21:48:50< grzywacz> Ivanovic, ok. If he does intend to come we could book the tickets together.
20091203 21:49:40< Ivanovic> and if he does not it might be possible for you to fly to dortmund and go with me in my car (was rather cheap for deekay last year IIRC)
20091203 21:50:20< Ivanovic> (that is: if chrber does not want to drive to FOSDEM this year, he mentioned that he might be interesed)
20091203 21:54:38< Crab_> Ivanovic: how hard is to get from dortmund to FOSDEM's site ?
20091203 21:54:58< Ivanovic> Crab_: if you live in dortmund and are going there anyway: easy if you got a car
20091203 21:54:58< Ivanovic> ;)
20091203 21:55:22< Ivanovic> it is a 300km drive
20091203 21:57:32< Ivanovic> and yeah, my car just has two seats, so i can take up to one person with me
20091203 21:57:55< Ivanovic> (with other words: we should somehow speak with each other regarding how to do things)
20091203 21:58:08< Crab_> Ivanovic: and if you have not ... ? is there any 'easy&cheap' alternate transportation means (e.g. buses or trains) ? 
20091203 21:58:47< Ivanovic> the problem is that dortmund is in germany and brussels in belgium, so there is no cheap public transport
20091203 22:02:11< Ivanovic> it is probably cheaper if you fly to brussels than to dortmund and try public transport to get to brussels (which probably would require some extra six to 8h)
20091203 22:03:39< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, for me it's cheaper (by a wide margin, say 30 EUR vs 160 EUR ) to fly from Kiev to Dortmund because there's a quite cheap (if you book in advance) wizzair flight to Dortmund, but no such flight to Brussels
20091203 22:04:08< Ivanovic> ah, okay, no easyjet for you, right?
20091203 22:04:28< Crab_> no
20091203 22:06:19< Ivanovic> from where do you fly?
20091203 22:06:24< Ivanovic> kiew or lemberg?
20091203 22:06:43< Crab_> Ivanovic: Kiev, Ukraine.
20091203 22:07:14< Crab_> although it's easy enough to travel to Lemberg, too
20091203 22:09:10< Ivanovic> the kiew flight would be better for taking you with me since that one arrives at 14:20 on friday which makes it possible to still drive over to brussels (takes some three hours)
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20091203 22:16:00< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes. such a route (Kiev -> Dortmund and then with you or via any suitable ground transport ) seems, as of now, good enough (if booked in advance)
20091203 22:16:57< Ivanovic> let me write a mail to the dev-ml to get things started...
20091203 22:17:01< Crab_> ok
20091203 22:21:23< mordante> I'm off night
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20091203 22:39:04< deekay> Ivanovic: I go. :)
20091203 22:39:09 * deekay pings grzywacz 
20091203 22:39:11< Ivanovic> okay
20091203 22:39:29< deekay> I have whole February free, so it's not a problem.
20091203 22:41:43< Ivanovic> okay, sent a mail to the dev-ml about fosdem and created a page in the wiki
20091203 22:41:52< Ivanovic> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2010
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20091203 23:27:18< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen YogiHH
20091203 23:27:18< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick YogiHH last spoke 3d ago.  2d 22h ago person left:
20091203 23:28:22< grzywacz> deekay, good!
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20091203 23:47:01< Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, Crab_, Dragonking, fendrin, grzywacz, mordante, everyone else wanting to participate: so what are your current plans regarding travel arrangements and accomodations?
20091203 23:47:26< Dragonking> Ivanovic: Discussing with grzywacz atm
20091203 23:47:30< Ivanovic> okay
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20091203 23:52:33< grzywacz> Ivanovic, any recommendations for hostels? ;-) Bruegel? ;)
20091203 23:52:50< Ivanovic> grzywacz: in fact i liked 2go4 last year
20091203 23:53:15< Ivanovic> the beds were better (no plastic mattress)
20091203 23:56:53< grzywacz> Hm. Link?
20091203 23:56:59< Ivanovic> cf wiki
20091203 23:57:03< grzywacz> Is it somewhere near the central station as well?
20091203 23:57:25< Ivanovic> it was some 15 to 20mins walk to the greek restraurant
20091203 23:57:39< Ivanovic> the next bus station was the one where the one over the ULB starts
20091203 23:57:39< grzywacz> hm :)
20091203 23:57:40< Ivanovic> ;)
20091203 23:59:09< grzywacz> Yes, but we'll arrive by train from Charleroi :)
20091203 23:59:14< grzywacz> And late in the evening at that.
20091203 23:59:33< Ivanovic> ask deekay, he knows where that hostel is
20091203 23:59:53< grzywacz> I've found it on google maps already. Looks ok.
--- Log closed Fri Dec 04 00:00:03 2009