--- Log opened Sat Dec 12 00:00:22 2009
20091212 00:00:59< noy> brb
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20091212 00:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 66 bugs, 246 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091212 00:25:15< ilor_> mordante: new lobby is unusable with the kind of load 1.6 gets :/
20091212 00:27:17< ilor_> constant cpu load, pretty much cannot scroll anything 
20091212 00:27:51< ilor_> buttons unresponsive
20091212 00:33:57< Zarel> Hey, guys.
20091212 00:34:17< Zarel> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28073 <- someone should probably give this guy the standard response
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20091212 00:35:55< Zarel> Hmm, I guess I'll just copy/paste Turuk's response.
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20091212 04:44:21< Jetrel> wesbot: seen kitty
20091212 04:44:21< wesbot> Jetrel: Sorry, I don't know of kitty.
20091212 04:44:35< Jetrel> wesbot: seen kitty_
20091212 04:44:35< wesbot> Jetrel: The person with the nick kitty_ 18d 4h ago they left with the message: "bye"
20091212 04:46:29< Turuk> Sirp: around?
20091212 04:49:22< Zarel> Jetrel: Man, you're so much more eloquent than I am. :|
20091212 04:50:38< Turuk> :| 
20091212 04:51:04< Turuk> Well, whenever you get back Sirp, I just need a timeframe for when you expect it to head into the black so I can get an order set up.
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20091212 05:48:37< Sirp> Turuk: kinda; what's up?
20091212 05:49:01< Sirp> Turuk: an order set up?
20091212 05:53:44< Turuk> Sirp: For the 501(c)(3) status, I was thinking of when I would tell them we'd be sending it in
20091212 05:58:22< Sirp> Turuk: ahh, they replied to you? I am happy to fund it whenever you're ready
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20091212 08:33:25< mordante> servus
20091212 08:47:34< mordante> ilor I just tested with 31 games and I have barely CPU usage on my system only using the arrow keys to navigate is slow
20091212 08:48:02< mordante> but other then that it seems usable here (want to test later with more games)
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20091212 10:38:47< zookeeper> why is the drake flare line's attack still called "sword"?
20091212 10:43:31< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: because I didn't get round to changing it in time for the string freeze - I did the desc changes before the new sprites were ready, so I didn't know what to change it to
20091212 10:43:50< thespaceinvader> and the new flare line sprites weren't ready to go in til after the string freeze
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20091212 10:51:12< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, well don't the other drakes have the necessary strings already?
20091212 10:51:26< thespaceinvader> umm
20091212 10:51:31< thespaceinvader> yes, they probably do
20091212 10:51:32< zookeeper> "war talon" or whatever the other drakes have seems a lot more descriptive than "sword"
20091212 10:51:37< thespaceinvader> i didn't know you could do that...
20091212 10:51:37< Ivanovic> the strings are there
20091212 10:51:52< Ivanovic> just use "battle claw" like the others in that unit line
20091212 10:52:07< Ivanovic> (that is: there are three kinds of claws used among the drakes...)
20091212 10:52:09< thespaceinvader> ok, cool, i'll change them to War Blades, actually, like the fighter line
20091212 10:52:16< Ivanovic> why?
20091212 10:52:19< thespaceinvader> that's the one they're closest to
20091212 10:52:29< thespaceinvader> a single blade, mounted on the back of the hand
20091212 10:53:31< thespaceinvader> if that's OK?
20091212 10:53:34< Ivanovic> the fighter line uses a socalled "war talon"
20091212 10:53:47< Ivanovic> sorry, that was only the lvl3 in that line
20091212 10:53:57< Ivanovic> lvl2 has a "war blade"
20091212 10:54:26< Ivanovic> the thrasher line has the "war talon"
20091212 10:56:48< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: are "required attack icons" listed somewhere?
20091212 10:57:09< Ivanovic> since the war blade and the war talon most likely do need an icon of their own
20091212 10:57:12< thespaceinvader> in my mind only
20091212 10:57:30< thespaceinvader> they're on the list to be done, but virtually all the drakes melee weapons need new ones
20091212 10:57:43< thespaceinvader> and i don't think there's anyone with the ability who has the time at present
20091212 10:57:50< Ivanovic> ah, right, ram needs something new, too
20091212 10:58:02< Ivanovic> ehm, fmunoz just posted to attack icons in the forums
20091212 10:58:05< zookeeper> well, fmunoz just started posting new icons.
20091212 10:58:06< Ivanovic> maybe you want to reply there
20091212 10:58:07< thespaceinvader> actually, that's not strictly accurate - most of them
20091212 10:58:13< thespaceinvader> yeah, that could work, actually
20091212 10:58:14< thespaceinvader> good call
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20091212 11:22:22< thespaceinvader> done that
20091212 11:22:37< CIA-12> thespaceinvader * r40197 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Change Drake Flare and Flameheart weapon names, update changelogs.
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20091212 11:42:13< mordante> silene, after applying patch 1141 I run into a problem, this patch http://paste.debian.net/53787/ fixes it, I only wonder whether the test on line 7 is still needed 
20091212 11:46:07< Ivanovic> mordante: so have i understood yesterdays log correctly?
20091212 11:46:18< Ivanovic> that is: the mp lobby is currently unusable with *many* clients
20091212 11:47:27< Ivanovic> IIRC ilor tested things joining the 1.6 mp lobby
20091212 11:48:33< mordante> Ivanovic, yes, I tested today with the 1.6 lobby with 31 games and it wasn't too slow
20091212 11:49:02< mordante> however it might be too slow on lower end machines, but I haven't tested that 
20091212 11:49:38< mordante> mainly the selection of a game is slow, so if you scroll down with the arrow key it acts rather slow
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20091212 11:50:20< Ivanovic> increasing scrolling speed is no option? (as in "jump more pixels per s than currently)
20091212 11:50:30< mordante> when testing with a debug build -O0 instead of -O2 it gets a lot slower
20091212 11:50:32< Ivanovic> Noyga: i assume that you are fine with 2go4 for fosdem
20091212 11:50:44< Noyga> yes
20091212 11:50:59< mordante> the scrolling with the mouse is fast enough, it's the selection of the game that invalidates a lot
20091212 11:51:17< mordante> and that's slow
20091212 11:51:30< mordante> (haven't profiled yet)
20091212 11:54:47< Ivanovic> okay, lets say it this way: no rc1 until this stuff is profiled
20091212 11:55:00< Ivanovic> since the main reason for the new lobby *is* making it handle more users/games better
20091212 12:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 69 bugs, 246 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091212 12:40:46< CIA-12> ivanovic * r40198 /trunk/ (327 files in 24 dirs): 
20091212 12:40:46< CIA-12> pot-update (no string changes/additions, just a reference update!)
20091212 12:40:46< CIA-12> regenerated doc files (removed russian and swedish manual since they are not regenerated because of "not complete enough" (<80% translated)
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20091212 12:49:30< CIA-12> ivanovic * r40199 /trunk/po/ (5 files in 2 dirs): made sure that all files are up-to-date by running a "forced update" on all langs
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20091212 12:56:56< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: you mgith want to update the list
20091212 12:57:06< thespaceinvader> list?
20091212 12:57:11< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: the thrasher line has a ram attack that is currently using the mace icon
20091212 12:57:17< Ivanovic> which does not fit, either
20091212 12:57:17< thespaceinvader> oh yeah
20091212 12:57:24< thespaceinvader> thanks for the reminder, knew i was forgetting something
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20091212 13:02:10< silene> mordante: technically, there is nothing to calculate if there are no rectangles to update
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20091212 13:32:33< mordante> silene, ok, then I commit it as is
20091212 13:35:52< CIA-12> mordante * r40200 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/listbox.hpp: Fix doxygen comment.
20091212 13:36:15< CIA-12> mordante * r40201 /trunk/src/video.cpp: 
20091212 13:36:15< CIA-12> Avoid accessig an invalid vector element.
20091212 13:36:15< CIA-12> calc_rects() can result in update_rects being empty.
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20091212 13:52:13< ilor> hi mordante
20091212 13:53:17< mordante> hi ilor 
20091212 13:54:03< ilor> mordante: I'm testing this on my laptop, a core2duo, and a release build of wesnoth under mingw
20091212 13:54:56< ilor> mordante: and right now I can barely get a click on the quit button to register
20091212 13:55:10< ilor> there's around 35% CPU usage which means 70% of one core
20091212 13:55:32< mordante> and how many players in the lobby?
20091212 13:55:44< ilor> 47 games
20091212 13:56:07< mordante> and the CPU usage is when idling in the lobby?
20091212 13:57:08< ilor> yes, nothing seems to be going on
20091212 13:57:39< ilor> alt-tabbing into the game takes a while and if I didn't know better I'd assume it's hanged
20091212 13:58:23< mordante> and you have a trunk with the new timer based network update routine?
20091212 14:00:42< ilor> yes, it with the 'MP lobby refresh to the new timer engine' change
20091212 14:00:48< ilor> *it's
20091212 14:01:50< mordante> odd that the CPU usage differs that much, for me it's a few percents
20091212 14:02:14< mordante> I know my machine is faster as a core2duo laptop, but didn't expect that much
20091212 14:03:23< ilor> the cpu usage itself is not a problem, that I could barely exit wesnoth without killing the process is
20091212 14:04:09< Ivanovic> ilor: this is on windows, right?
20091212 14:04:20< ilor> yes
20091212 14:04:22< Ivanovic> maybe there is some "windows specific" problem in this area?
20091212 14:04:28< Ivanovic> since IIRC mordante relies on linux
20091212 14:04:41< Ivanovic> mordante: what is your cpu?
20091212 14:04:56< ilor> wouldn't be a first, but I'm using the usually quite fast mingw release build
20091212 14:05:26< mordante> Ivanovic, phenom II X4 905e
20091212 14:05:53< Ivanovic> mordante: in fact the core2 arch should be a little fast in a per core basis
20091212 14:05:55< mordante> I still expect that due to the high CPU load events get lots, had the same yesterday running under valgrid
20091212 14:06:18< Ivanovic> that is: at the same clockspeed and all the likes
20091212 14:06:53< Ivanovic> i will create a build with version=test on my laptop and see how it behaves with 1.5GHz core2duo
20091212 14:07:05< Ivanovic> (yes, i can force the clock down to 1GHz which should be reasonable low)
20091212 14:07:07< mordante> I expect the versions in laptops to be throttled a bit more and not the highest clockspeeds
20091212 14:07:17< Ivanovic> ilor: which clockspeed?
20091212 14:07:32< Ivanovic> mordante: the cpu itself does not differ regarding features
20091212 14:07:47< Ivanovic> that is: just the clock speeds differ and that not by much
20091212 14:08:02< mordante> ok
20091212 14:08:28< Ivanovic> ilor, mordante: what is the port for the 1.6.x server?
20091212 14:08:38< ilor> 1.8GHz here
20091212 14:09:02< Ivanovic> okay, then my 1.5ghz low voltage core2 should be a good test basis if it is damn slow on linux, too
20091212 14:09:14< Ivanovic> (especially if i clock things down to just 1GHz)
20091212 14:09:37< Ivanovic> anyway, i got to eat something first
20091212 14:09:54< Ivanovic> so when i am back i should be able to test things a little
20091212 14:10:00< Ivanovic> (maybe in 30 to 60 mins)
20091212 14:11:24< mordante> Ivanovic, port is 14999 and you need to set your version to test
20091212 14:11:47< Ivanovic> i edited src/wesconfig already
20091212 14:11:57< Ivanovic> the -rev at the end does not matter, right?
20091212 14:13:34< Soliton> it needs to be exactly test atm but i can change that.
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20091212 14:48:46< Ivanovic> Soliton: please do so
20091212 14:48:54< Ivanovic> anything starting with "test" should IMO workd
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20091212 14:50:41< WinXPNewb> Hi, I don't know anything about building a campaign but from a newbie's perspective, how advanced is it to change the default units' stats like the UTBS campaign did or create units altogether like the Imperial Era ones??
20091212 14:51:18< Ivanovic> if you know how to read documentation and are able to use a text editor: easy
20091212 14:51:51< Soliton> Ivanovic: should be done now.
20091212 14:53:11< Ivanovic> lovely
20091212 14:53:28< Ivanovic> when trying to connect to wesnoth.org:14999 using my forum account i get a lovely crash on my laptop
20091212 14:55:15< Ivanovic> mordante, iloron my laptop just being in the lobby at 1ghz it does use 20%
20091212 14:55:22< Ivanovic> that is: 40% of one core
20091212 14:55:29< WinXPNewb> Ivanovic: Is there a guide that doesn't involve editing the simple campaign? The file didn't load for me.
20091212 14:56:21< Ivanovic> WinXPNewb: uhm, you want to change units just in one campaign?
20091212 14:56:36< Ivanovic> that is *work*, *lots* of work if you want to stay compatible regarding multiplayer
20091212 14:56:46< mordante> Ivanovic, since we don't use multithreading a lot I only care about the one core usage
20091212 14:56:51< Ivanovic> and i don't know what you mean with "editiong the single campaign"
20091212 14:57:08< Ivanovic> mordante: that is 40% of a core under load while the user just idles
20091212 14:57:11< Ivanovic> mordante: clearly too much
20091212 14:57:15< WinXPNewb> No, no. I don't know how to build my own campaign so I tried looking at the Wesnoth support page but it required having a bare bones campaign.
20091212 14:57:23< Ivanovic> mordante: when scrolling it lags like hell!
20091212 14:57:25< Ivanovic> unusable
20091212 14:57:37< WinXPNewb> Ivanovic: I only plan to create a SP campaign.
20091212 14:57:48< mordante> Ivanovic, scrolling with the arrow keys or dragging the scrollbar gripper/
20091212 14:57:50< mordante> ?*
20091212 14:58:00< Ivanovic> WinXPNewb: you can easily copy the whole folder of an existing campaign and edit in there
20091212 14:58:10< Ivanovic> mordante: scrolling with the arrows has no real result
20091212 14:58:19< Ivanovic> scrolling with clicking on the bar has a 1s delay
20091212 14:58:34< Ivanovic> scrolling while holding the mouse pressed and then moving the bar: forget it!
20091212 14:58:42< mordante> how many games in the lobby
20091212 14:59:03< Ivanovic> beside this the terminal is spammed with *many* messages about "could not open MAP_whatever" for reading, so it might be related
20091212 14:59:33< Ivanovic> plus the crash when using my registered account in the 1.6.x server
20091212 14:59:43< WinXPNewb> Ivanovic:  Ok. So if I copy the campaign file and edit it, it shouldn't break anything game-wise outside of that campaign right? Just making sure.
20091212 15:00:22< mordante> best ask ilor about the spamming the log and are they maps with the name random in them?
20091212 15:00:46< mordante> does it also crash when you use your forum account on the 1.8 server?
20091212 15:01:07< Ivanovic> jpw to get the number of games?
20091212 15:01:32< Ivanovic> sorry, i see it at the top
20091212 15:01:35< Ivanovic> 59 games
20091212 15:03:00< Soliton> WinXPNewb: you should make sure to change the id and name but yeah it can't really break much.
20091212 15:03:30< WinXPNewb> Soliton: Thanks
20091212 15:03:51< Ivanovic> mordante: in general the lobby is also unusable because at every refresh the list jumps back to the top
20091212 15:04:14< Ivanovic> when it is as slow as atm this easily lets it lag enough, so that you can't look at games further down in the list
20091212 15:06:07< mordante> Ivanovic, I also noticed the jumping it's due to the fact the entire list is recreated every refresh
20091212 15:08:30< Ivanovic> ilor, mordante: log output from about 2 mins in the 1.6.x mp lobby with a trunk client: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m7409b628
20091212 15:09:27< Ivanovic> one problem i see is that it retries to open nonexisting maps every time the list is regenerated
20091212 15:09:33< Ivanovic> maybe use some cache for the data?
20091212 15:09:55< Ivanovic> so that there is no reason for file accesses every 3s
20091212 15:10:12< CIA-12> fendrin * r40202 /branches/fendrin_gui_stuff/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Support for correct file names and number lines when a wml parsing error is reported.
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20091212 15:12:08< mordante> not sure whether the minimap already uses a cache, but I prefer to first try to reduce the number of clears() to the listbox
20091212 15:13:34< Ivanovic> yes, there are clearly too many clears
20091212 15:17:20< ilor_> I don't think there's a minimap cache and I think it might be a contributing factor
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20091212 15:19:14< mordante> I can have a look at a cache, to see how much that helps
20091212 15:19:18< ilor_> did old lobby try and fail to load these maps (once)?
20091212 15:19:38< mordante> no idea
20091212 15:20:05< Ivanovic> got to rebuild 1.6 to be able to test it
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20091212 15:20:20< Ivanovic> (the latest version i got is built against a boost version no longer install on my box)
20091212 15:23:28< ilor_> I have a 1.6.2, it spams error filesystem: Could not open 'D:/wesnoth1.6/userdata/editor/maps/' for reading. even though the dir exists
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20091212 15:29:03< Ivanovic> and i currently have some *real* problems joining the 1.6.x mp server
20091212 15:29:18< Ivanovic> it seems to basically hang at "reading from server"
20091212 15:34:09< Ivanovic> okay, and when forcequitting that step after >5mins the result is some invalid cache
20091212 15:36:18< Ivanovic> lovely, problems on my desktop but everything works nicely on my tablet...
20091212 15:36:39< Ivanovic> okay, the mp lobby as in 1.6.5+svn does not have any "could not read ABC" message
20091212 15:36:50< Ivanovic> and scrolling and everything is *damn* fast
20091212 15:37:01< Ivanovic> idle load somewhere at 2%
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20091212 15:39:49< Ivanovic> ilor_: when using my registered forum account to join the 1.6.x mp server i get this error:
20091212 15:40:06< Ivanovic> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::out_of_trange'
20091212 15:40:13< ilor_> whoa
20091212 15:40:16< Ivanovic>    what(): basic_string::substr
20091212 15:40:31< Ivanovic> no problem when using a nick that is not registered
20091212 15:41:27< loonycyborg> Logging in with forum account works for me with trunk..
20091212 15:42:26< ilor_> reproduced
20091212 15:42:40< Soliton> minimap cache was a major improvement in lobby performance back in 1.2 or 1.4.
20091212 15:43:01< Ivanovic> ilor_: okay
20091212 15:43:12< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: it does not happen with the trunk server, just with the 1.6.x one
20091212 15:43:33< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Indeed. But isn't 1.6.x supposed to be stable? :P
20091212 15:43:49< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: the mp lobby is supposed to work anyway
20091212 15:43:51< ilor_> Ivanovic: will hunt for that one, need to go afk for ~30min now
20091212 15:44:03< Ivanovic> that is: it is likely some bug that will occur when many users are online
20091212 15:44:08< Ivanovic> ilor_: sure
20091212 15:45:27< loonycyborg> So it's triggered by something happening in the lobby which wasn't tested before?
20091212 15:46:34< Ivanovic> probably
20091212 15:47:01< Ivanovic> ilor, mordante: what is supposed to happen when clicking and holding the arrow keys in the mp game view?
20091212 15:47:12< Ivanovic> ilor_: it seems to only "jump" down at button up
20091212 15:47:29< Ivanovic> is it not meant to scroll step by step when i hold the mouse button?
20091212 15:48:41< loonycyborg> It works for me with 1.6 branch too..
20091212 15:50:42< Ivanovic> 1.6 does completely hang on my desktop, works nicely on my laptop
20091212 15:50:48< ilor_> loonycyborg: the problem is when using newlobby with 1.6 server
20091212 15:51:00< mordante> Ivanovic, no it's not supposed to keep scrolling down, I could add it
20091212 15:51:01< Ivanovic> might be some probs with some of the dependencies or the likes that don't like my 64bit machine
20091212 15:51:08< Ivanovic> mordante: please do so
20091212 15:51:19< ilor_> Ivanovic: how the listbox is supposed to work is mordante's area, lobby code just uses 'a' gui2 listbox
20091212 15:51:36< Ivanovic> since that is what most people probably exepct from buttons like this eg in their chat clients or browser
20091212 15:51:48< loonycyborg> ilor_: So trunk should be able to connect to 1.6 server?
20091212 15:52:10< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: it should be able to connect there and show the game list when the version is set to "test"
20091212 15:52:21< ilor_> loonycyborg: it is able, and it shouldn't crash. It's useful for lobby performance testing
20091212 15:52:28< mordante> I don't think we need to consider that a real bug if trunk and 1.6 don't work smoothly
20091212 15:52:32< loonycyborg> Understood.
20091212 15:52:42< ilor_> mordante: that crash should not happen period.
20091212 15:52:57< loonycyborg> But you could also autocreate random games on trunk server :P
20091212 15:53:34< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: but in this case you would be using random maps
20091212 15:53:37< ilor_> loonycyborg: got a script for that? :)
20091212 15:53:40< mordante> ilor_, shouldn't crash but I don't see it as high priority since you bypass the normal checks
20091212 15:53:42< Ivanovic> or maps that your client does have
20091212 15:53:53< ilor_> also, it's a lot more representative to use 1.6 imo
20091212 15:54:06< mordante> ilor_, how much time do you have to work on Wesnoth?
20091212 15:54:08< Ivanovic> the problem is that this way you are not able to see how cases of "maps don't exist on client" and "era does not exist" are handled
20091212 15:54:38< Ivanovic> mordante: i fear that this crash might also happen on the 1.7.x server when too many users are there
20091212 15:54:41< ilor_> mordante: I have some time now and through holidays, uni stuff is stabilizing
20091212 15:55:08< ilor_> generally just minor stuff to do for classess now, major stuff in January
20091212 15:55:27< ilor_> so I intend to get back on track and get some Wesnoth work done
20091212 15:56:02< mordante> nice
20091212 15:57:31< mordante> Ivanovic, what are your plans for tagging?
20091212 15:58:31< Ivanovic> hmm, will likely be away from 18:45 to 20:30 and since everything appears to be damn unstable on my desktop it is likely that i won't release today
20091212 15:58:37< Ivanovic> maybe tomorrow, sometimes in the afternoon
20091212 16:01:03< mordante> ok then I first will look at caching the minimap and the repeating button
20091212 16:01:49< mordante> guess po4a won't happen this weekend :-(
20091212 16:02:01< Ivanovic> okay, ain't no problem for me
20091212 16:02:10< Ivanovic> in general the mp lobby is by far more of an issue
20091212 16:05:09< mordante> for me as well
20091212 16:06:50< ilor_> po4a?
20091212 16:08:06< mordante> thinks I have to do for the manual in cmake
20091212 16:08:10< mordante> things*
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20091212 17:52:59< CIA-12> ilor * r40203 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: VC9 projectfile update
20091212 17:53:18< ilor> Ivanovic: there seems to have been a change in the password hashing protocol between 1.6 and 1.7, and trunk assumed a salt string to be >= 12 chars long, which it wasn't when connecting to a 1.6 server
20091212 17:54:03< ilor> Ivanovic: basically trunk can't login to a passworded account on 1.6, I added a check that'll disconnect
20091212 17:56:29< CIA-12> ilor * r40204 /trunk/src/multiplayer.cpp: do not trust the server-returned salt string to be 12 or more chars, avoiding a crash when a 1.7 client connects to a 1.6 server
20091212 17:59:05< Ivanovic> ilor: okay, that explains everything
20091212 18:01:35< CIA-12> ivanovic * r40205 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-lib/de.po wesnoth-units/de.po): updated German translation
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20091212 18:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 70 bugs, 246 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091212 19:10:17< CIA-12> ilor * r40206 /trunk/src/util.hpp: remove an unneded #include
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--- Log opened Sat Dec 12 20:45:48 2009
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20091212 20:45:58-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: string/feature freeze active! | 70 bugs, 246 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20091212 20:45:58-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Sat Dec 12 18:21:15 2009]
20091212 20:45:58[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20091212 20:45:58[ _teddy         ] [ erl          ] [ knotwork    ] [ soliton        ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ Aethaeryn      ] [ Espreon      ] [ lobby       ] [ stikonas       ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ AI0867         ] [ ettin        ] [ loonybot    ] [ thespaceinvader] 
20091212 20:45:58[ AnMaster       ] [ fendrin      ] [ loonycyborg ] [ Tigge          ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ ardesh         ] [ GobiTheGoblin] [ lukjad007   ] [ Vetinari       ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ Blueblaze      ] [ happygrue    ] [ mordante    ] [ wesbot         ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ ceninan        ] [ Ingmar       ] [ Noyga       ] [ WinXPNewb      ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ Chusslove      ] [ isaac_       ] [ Rhonda      ] [ yann           ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ CIA-12         ] [ Ivanovic     ] [ shadowmaster] [ Zarel          ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ crimson_penguin] [ Jetrel       ] [ shikadibot  ] [ zookeeper      ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ Doppp          ] [ kimrhh       ] [ silene      ] 
20091212 20:45:58[ dtiger         ] [ kitty__      ] [ Smar        ] 
20091212 20:45:58-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 46 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 46 normal]
20091212 20:46:00< Zarel> Images can be uploaded to imagebin.ca , if you need somewhere to share your images, btw.
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20091212 20:46:05< kitty__> Ok, so if the different style test doesn't  work out and if Lendrick is fine with it we leave httt as it is right now and give another campaign to Gobi? Sounds reasonable to me
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20091212 20:46:24< Jetrel> kitty__:  yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
20091212 20:46:28-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20091212 20:46:54< GobiTheGoblin> I don't have any opinion on that, Ill do what you decide =)
20091212 20:47:02< Jetrel> kitty__:  with one caveat - regardless of gobi, I'd like to remove the really old bad pictures from HttT.  We should have done that quite some time ago IMO.
20091212 20:47:11< kitty__> any preferences which campaign? how about dead water with fresh and shiney pictures for  1.9?
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20091212 20:47:25< kitty__> Jetrel: of course! who did them anyways?
20091212 20:47:43< Jetrel> kitty__:  Francisco Muñoz, the art director before me.
20091212 20:47:46-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 117 secs
20091212 20:47:48< thespaceinvader> not to rain on the parade or anything, but haven't we been working on unifying the artwork style across the whole game for like, 2 years?  Putting non-matching images into another (or any) campaign seems to defeat the object...
20091212 20:48:20< zookeeper> there's no unified artwork style objective for story art
20091212 20:48:35< kitty__> thespaceinvader: story art never was unified. The two borther ones are nothing like the httt ones etc.
20091212 20:48:37< zookeeper> (well, assuming there's nothing too weird)
20091212 20:49:07< thespaceinvader> ah yeah, that is a problem
20091212 20:49:08< zookeeper> different styles of story art work just fine, since they're shown very much in isolation from other art
20091212 20:49:08< Jetrel> kitty__:  he was the founding artist - the first person to join the project after dave first uploaded the very first version.  Admittedly, practically all of his sprites were frankensteined from stolen commercial sprites, but they got us started, and we've since fixed that.
20091212 20:49:28< kitty__> Jetrel: thanks for the info!
20091212 20:49:33< thespaceinvader> but i'd understood us to be aiming to match the portrait style more or less - or the 3 images you did kitty__ 
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20091212 20:49:54< kitty__> thespaceinvader: were only done ina style I can do quickly.... 
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20091212 20:50:04< thespaceinvader> ah ok
20091212 20:50:09< Jetrel> Yeah, I don't think we need to unify the story art, but I think we need to reasonably unify it per-campaign.
20091212 20:50:20< thespaceinvader> yeah, i can agree with that
20091212 20:50:32< Jetrel> Unify, inasmuch as kitty and lordbob's portrait style doesn't clash with each other.
20091212 20:50:42< thespaceinvader> i guess portraits and story art are never seen together, so it doesn't really matter much anyway
20091212 20:50:47< Jetrel> That's a good example of unification IMO.
20091212 20:50:52< thespaceinvader> yeah, that sort of unification is what i meant ;)
20091212 20:51:18< kitty__> did you see the book illumination style ones lordbob started for utbs for example? radically different but really great!
20091212 20:52:10< Jetrel> kitty__:  no!  When did he make those?  :D
20091212 20:52:26< Jetrel> wow.
20091212 20:52:26< zookeeper> quite a long time ago, hopefully he'll finish them sometime
20091212 20:52:43< kitty__> Jetrel: oh, months ago. just an example for differently styled ones
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20091212 20:54:05< Jetrel> So anyways, that's all I have to discuss at the moment. :)
20091212 20:54:13< Jetrel> well, hmm
20091212 20:54:22< GobiTheGoblin> so where we stand?
20091212 20:54:31< GobiTheGoblin> I continue? And you decide later?
20091212 20:54:40< zookeeper> i think blarumyrran's DiD and liberty story images are a pretty good indication that you can use a very different style for story art and it doesn't really matter. i think those images add a lot to those campaigns despite the style.
20091212 20:55:10< Jetrel> I would say one last thing:  comparing the two pictures we've seen thus far, I really preferred the style of the "konrad fallen off the ship" picture you sent via PM, versus the "orc messenger" picture.
20091212 20:55:25< kitty__> we'll wait for you new sketch curiously, GobiTheGoblin! 
20091212 20:55:48< Jetrel> GobiTheGoblin:  Yep.  We'll wait for that and then decide. :)
20091212 20:56:13< GobiTheGoblin> k. =) Then, if nothing more, I am off to work?
20091212 20:56:19< Jetrel> Yep.
20091212 20:56:26< GobiTheGoblin> k, later =)
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20091212 20:57:07< Jetrel> Note:  I'm sort of here but afk for the next 2 hours, and then I'm going to a short, hour-long (?) ice-skating demo to watch some people.
20091212 20:57:46< Jetrel> Although whilst Gobi is doing this thing, I'll be camping in #wesnoth-dev to be reachable.
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20091212 20:59:03< Jetrel> kitty__:  btw, you might find it useful to know;  I'm always available on this irc network under the name "Jetrel", I just have a habit of not being in the wesnoth channels themselves because people keep trying to discuss too many plans with me.
20091212 20:59:18< kitty__> ok :)
20091212 20:59:22< Jetrel> kitty__:  in other words you can always send a PM to that name if you need to get a hold of me.
20091212 20:59:51< Jetrel> kitty__:  if I don't respond, I'm just not awake or gone, usually.  But I have a desktop computer, so I just leave that permanently on.
20091212 21:00:07< CIA-12> mordante * r40207 /trunk/src/ (minimap.cpp minimap.hpp): Header inclusion cleanup and constify parameters.
20091212 21:00:54< Jetrel> kitty__:   It's not that I have any problems with coming up with crazy plans, I just find that I'd rather spend more of my time -executing- the plans, rather than making them.
20091212 21:01:29< Jetrel> At this point, I have more plans than I need; the best way I can spend my wesnoth time is generally by just doing grunt work.
20091212 21:02:11< Jetrel> Also, as people may have noticed, I am at a low point in my wesnoth involvement;  I'm busy with some real-life stuff like finding a new job.
20091212 21:02:17< kitty__> Jetrel: of course - I have tons of plans myself (and usefull stuf to do, too). but i'm not endangered to get caught up in them right now since my wacom died...
20091212 21:02:26< kitty__> good luck with job hunting!
20091212 21:02:27< Jetrel> I will come back in force soon enough.
20091212 21:02:45< Jetrel> kitty__:  aw, geez, that sucks. :(
20091212 21:03:46< kitty__> I think I'll have money to replace it after christmas, but I'll do an internship starting february so my time will be limited
20091212 21:04:09 * Jetrel nods.
20091212 21:04:48< Jetrel> Meanwhile, I'm still trying to brush up my skills on portraiting;  the worst thing I need is just manual dexterity with doing the sketching on the computer.
20091212 21:05:28< kitty__> and that takes time...
20091212 21:05:37< Jetrel> Somehow, I'm able to draw relatively well at 100% zoom in photoshop, but it just goes to hell when I try and draw zoomed out (i.e. on a 300dpi) image.
20091212 21:06:07< kitty__> strange. did you try real medium inking and then colouring the scanned lines?
20091212 21:06:10< Jetrel> that is, the same image at the same visual size on the screen; one at 72dpi, the other at ~300.
20091212 21:06:30< loonycyborg> kitty__: I wonder to what degree you're relying on the graphics tablet. Do you still use paintbrush etc? :P
20091212 21:06:33< Jetrel> kitty__:  I have in the past, but I'm -really- trying to permanently quit physical mediums.
20091212 21:07:25< Jetrel> In fact I've actually done that - I have quit pencil drawing, and probably won't ever go back, except for fun.
20091212 21:07:39< kitty__> Jetrel: I ink very zoomed in most of the time sometimes even at 200%, you see trembling very easily at big resolutions
20091212 21:07:59< Jetrel> Certainly;  I'll never go back for the types of images that i'd be scanning into a computer to touch up.
20091212 21:08:26< Jetrel> kitty__:   iiinteresting.  So maybe I'm just trying to do something that isn't humanly possible, because that's -exactly- the problem I was having.
20091212 21:08:28< kitty__> loonycyborg: i use the tablet 1000% . everything i did for wesnoth is purely digital. physical stuffs takes too much time and is less revisionable
20091212 21:09:29< kitty__> Jetrel: what helpes my shivering hands in general is physical drawing on really big formats. like doing nude drawings on 100+70cm really quick and the like
20091212 21:09:53< Jetrel> So my next one, I'll probably try sketching+detailing it at 100%, and then doing a careful inking at the zoomed in size.
20091212 21:10:28< kitty__> I hope that will help!
20091212 21:10:34< Jetrel> kitty__:   hmm...  is that to practice long, smooth, relaxed brush strokes, or am I asking the wrong question?
20091212 21:11:39< kitty__> not relaxed but quick and without brain involvement. let the hand do the work without too much thought. I get steadier when I do that dor a couple of hours
20091212 21:12:06< Jetrel> kitty__:  yeah, you're incidentally describing one of the key secrets of kung fu.
20091212 21:12:22< kitty__> :D
20091212 21:13:15< kitty__> but that is more of fine art talk and writing-like drawing works fine too for our needs (while being worse for your wrsits)
20091212 21:13:22< Jetrel> kitty__:  secret of kung fu:   the "muscle memory" you speak of is actually a huge subsection of our brain that they usually don't talk about much.  The Cerebellum;  the one right between the brain stem, and the cerebral cortex.
20091212 21:14:10< Jetrel> kitty__:  what we actually do is we delegate stuff to that - it's our muscle memory.  When we try to actually think through a physical action, our Cerebral Cortex tries to do it and it's pretty awkward at stuff.
20091212 21:14:49< Jetrel> But when we 'just do' something and let the muscles act on their own, it's actually that lower brain, the Cerebellum, doing it for us.  Which is what it's designed to do.
20091212 21:16:05< Jetrel> AFAICT, the trick is to do an action whilst thinking through it enough times that the cerebellum is familiar with it, and then try doing it without thinking, and see if the 'training wheels' can come off.
20091212 21:16:44< Jetrel> Of course, so many disciplines in so many fields have stumbled across this 'secret' independently, but it still is worth saying again.
20091212 21:17:33< Jetrel> And of course, take all the above with a grain of salt.  I am not a Neuroscientist. =)
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20091212 21:21:29< Jetrel> So yeah, thanks for the advice.  I'll try and put that to use.  Unfortunately I'm not practicing that kind of art very much, but I am drawing sprites with my tablet every day, so that definitely helps.
20091212 21:22:19< Jetrel> (Sprites I actually draw with one view set at 100%, and another blown up to at least 10x10cm across; usually an 800+% zoom)
20091212 21:24:39 * Jetrel goes away.
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20091212 21:44:19< CIA-12> mordante * r40208 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20091212 21:44:19< CIA-12> Add a minimap cache for gui2.
20091212 21:44:19< CIA-12> This should make the lobby faster. The number for size and resize are pick
20091212 21:44:19< CIA-12> arbitrary and might need some more tuning.
20091212 21:45:00< mordante> Ivanovic, ilor ^ some testing would be nice
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20091212 21:47:04< CIA-12> mordante * r40209 /trunk/changelog: changelog cleanup.
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20091212 22:21:37< Chusslove> Jetrel: Still there?
20091212 22:21:52< Jetrel> Chusslove:  what do you need?
20091212 22:22:09< Chusslove> I have a problem: Hungarian translators just sent in *all* maps localized, but font is noticably larger:
20091212 22:22:11< Chusslove>  http://caslav.gmxhome.de/image/wesnoth-hu-01.jpg
20091212 22:22:18< Chusslove> Acceptable, not acceptable?
20091212 22:22:53< Jetrel> could you show me a comparison versus english?  I don't have a recent copy at hand.
20091212 22:23:06< Chusslove> Comming...
20091212 22:24:04< Chusslove> Jetrel: http://caslav.gmxhome.de/image/wesnoth-en-01.jpg
20091212 22:26:20< Jetrel> Chusslove:  verdict:  it's inconsistent, but it's actually better than the english version;  more legible.  Thus, we'll keep it.
20091212 22:26:28< Chusslove> Great, thanks.
20091212 22:27:23< Jetrel> Other localizations can feel welcome to increase the size of the smaller text labels in a similar way - just don't exceed what this hungarian one did.
20091212 22:27:28< Ivanovic> if *all* maps are replaced there should not be any problem
20091212 22:27:33< Chusslove> Right, all maps.
20091212 22:27:42< Ivanovic> (since while using this lang it is consistent)
20091212 22:27:45< Chusslove> They sent a ton of stuff. Most complete image localization yet.
20091212 22:28:09< Jetrel> :(  Honestly, I very much don't like that we're doing this non-procedurally.  I really should put in a feature request that someone figure out a way to generate these map labels with code.
20091212 22:28:36< Chusslove> That would be great, but seems insurmountable to me.
20091212 22:28:52< Jetrel> Chusslove:  bullshit.  Practically everyone else does.
20091212 22:29:06< Chusslove> Great, awaiting solution.
20091212 22:29:06< Jetrel> Chusslove:  in fact with a decent api, this is actually _trivial_.
20091212 22:30:06< Jetrel> Chusslove:  I can't afford the time to set up a wesnoth build environment, nor to learn the codebase.  I will not do this, I simply know it can and should be done.
20091212 22:30:10< mordante> should indeed not be impossible
20091212 22:30:50< Ivanovic> Jetrel: something like this is/was done in two
20091212 22:30:52< Jetrel> chusslove:  it's the (rough) equivalent of just setting a border style in HTML.
20091212 22:30:56< Ivanovic> s/two/trow
20091212 22:31:04< Ivanovic> there the labels are split from the maps
20091212 22:31:16< Ivanovic> the problem is that they "pop in" as overlays over the map image
20091212 22:31:20< Ivanovic> really not too nice...
20091212 22:31:21< Chusslove> To me it's more equivalent of automatic font kerning -- doesn't beat manual yet.
20091212 22:31:25< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  no, that's not what I'm suggesting - I'm suggesting actually generating the labels with code.
20091212 22:31:55< Jetrel> Chusslove:  nothing stops us from manually kerning if necessary.
20091212 22:32:05< mordante> doesn't Ivanovic also propose that/
20091212 22:32:07< mordante> ?
20091212 22:32:33< Ivanovic> Jetrel: i see no way to combine "auto kerning" with "auto generation of translated labels"
20091212 22:32:39< Chusslove> In my case, it was necessary in too much places to justify complicating the system (automatic+retaining manual).
20091212 22:32:56< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  what are you talking about?
20091212 22:33:01< Chusslove> Argh, wait. I don't mean font kerning literally.
20091212 22:33:13< mordante> Chusslove, how much manually kerning is needed with pango/
20091212 22:33:14< mordante> ?
20091212 22:33:20< Ivanovic> [22:31:25] <Jetrel> Ivanovic:  no, that's not what I'm suggesting - I'm suggesting actually generating the labels with code.
20091212 22:33:23< Jetrel> mordante:  none.
20091212 22:33:24< Ivanovic> [22:31:55] <Jetrel> Chusslove:  nothing stops us from manually kerning if necessary.
20091212 22:33:26< Chusslove> I mean placing label properly on the map is akin to placing letter properly in a string.
20091212 22:33:35< Chusslove> Analogy.
20091212 22:33:52< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  the kerning is irrelevant art fluff;  it's really not necessary on small map labels like this.
20091212 22:33:54< Ivanovic> and yeah, with different string length you often *have* to place the label differently simply to make things look good
20091212 22:33:56< Chusslove> To make a point it's hard to do automatically, and to still look as good as manual.
20091212 22:34:16< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  kerning makes it look nicer, but it's not worth the trouble except on a logo.
20091212 22:34:20< Ivanovic> personally i am all in favor of making things as automated as possible
20091212 22:34:31 * mordante too
20091212 22:34:33< Ivanovic> Jetrel: read kerning as in "label placement"
20091212 22:34:41< Chusslove> (As Jetrel made analogy to HTML borders, I made analogy to font kerning.)
20091212 22:34:54< Ivanovic> though in some cases there is no good and easy way to make things look good while having things automated
20091212 22:34:57< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  which is all I'm suggesting - I'm just suggesting drawing the label, and then drawing the current border style around it.
20091212 22:35:24< Ivanovic> i think we talk about completely different things atm, Jetrel
20091212 22:35:53< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  yes;  I'm talking about automating the drawing of the text and the label.
20091212 22:36:14< Ivanovic> okay, lets *slowly* get to the same ground for discussions
20091212 22:36:28< Ivanovic> we are talking about taking a map like http://caslav.gmxhome.de/image/wesnoth-en-01.jpg just not seeing any labels
20091212 22:36:37 * mordante grabs some popcorn ;-)
20091212 22:36:48< Jetrel> Because it's incredibly hard to shepherd so many people who have no design experience to do a decent job generating that stuff by hand.
20091212 22:36:59< Ivanovic> in english we than define some "label 'Elensefar'" and place it at a coordinate
20091212 22:37:25< Ivanovic> in a translation we just translate the string "Elensefar" and have it used to automagically create the label on the map
20091212 22:37:56< Ivanovic> and this is done inside the game, so that the translator themself never has to touch any graphics program
20091212 22:38:32< Ivanovic> (if we use some magic script to generate "complete image files" before game start or to do it just while the game is running as kind of overlay does not really matter here)
20091212 22:38:47< Ivanovic> the problem is: how to make sure that the resulting placement of the abel looks good?
20091212 22:39:07< Ivanovic> that eg a string like in the example map "Arkan-thoria" is placed nicely?
20091212 22:39:15< Ivanovic> or "Bay of Pearls"?
20091212 22:39:19 * Chusslove underwrites what Ivanovic said so far.
20091212 22:39:29< Ivanovic> that is: placing is easy if the resulting string has the same size
20091212 22:39:56< Ivanovic> but eg in chinese the labels will be by far smaller (often not a problem), in other langs like german it is likely that they do get a lot larger
20091212 22:40:02< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  that might have to be also specified in the translation, but it's a hell of a lot easier getting that to place nicely, than having someone completely generate an image who doesn't have a lot of skill with that.
20091212 22:40:08< Ivanovic> to make things look nicely you most likely have to place things in two and all the likes
20091212 22:40:59< Chusslove> Also, the labels with parchements; parchement would have to be carefully generated wrt. string length, such to avoid repeating pattern and bad joins.
20091212 22:41:18< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  so, basically, the only variable that needs to be done by hand is placement, and potentially rotation (and line breaks, but that can be entered in the text with a newline.)
20091212 22:42:09< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  the advantage of the programmatic generation is that it locks all the other variables which could get screwed up - the right font, the right antialiasing, and having dozens of other subtle graphics program settings correct.
20091212 22:42:20< Ivanovic> so the translator would have to open some prog where they extract the pixel position where the label should start?
20091212 22:42:27< Ivanovic> or will the placement of the english map be used?
20091212 22:42:51< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  placement of the english map would be the default which would only be overridden when necessary.
20091212 22:43:29< Ivanovic> sorry, but in those regards i prefer using an image editor where you directly see the result and can say if it looks fine or not
20091212 22:43:46< Ivanovic> that is: if there is an english version with layers where the labels are in things *should* work nicely
20091212 22:44:03< Ivanovic> since in the labels the fonts are already defined (the same for stuff like "bold" and so on)
20091212 22:44:33< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  okay, you're wrong for the reasons I've stated above.  I've stated my argument, and that's all there is to it.
20091212 22:44:39< Ivanovic> yes, it is not as nice as having a way to easily fuzzy a single changed label or the likes and map updates are a *lot* more difficult
20091212 22:44:54< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  you're in charge of translations, so you make the decisions on this, I just think this is the wrong decision.
20091212 22:45:20< Ivanovic> personally i don't see a well working solution possible
20091212 22:45:42< Jetrel> I am with Wil Shipley on this- never, ever have translators supply images.  Translators only ever modify text.
20091212 22:45:46< Chusslove> Also problem with font. The font we use is unlikely free, and some languages may need to use other fonts. Or even manully add diacrits.
20091212 22:46:12< Jetrel> That is my development philosophy, you're free not to share it.
20091212 22:46:42< Jetrel> And I'm out.
20091212 22:46:45< Jetrel> See you around.
20091212 22:51:43< Ivanovic> Jetrel: btw, i am the one responsible for translations in general, the stuff about map translations is Chussloves department though
20091212 22:54:11 * Chusslove puts on the helmet.
20091212 22:55:13< Ivanovic> (this whole image stuff is too messy for me *at all*)
20091212 22:55:15< Ivanovic> ;)
20091212 22:55:34< stikonas> Chusslove: do you know any reason not to switch to URW Chancery which is a free font?
20091212 22:56:23< stikonas> and it looks almost identical to Monotype Corsiva
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20091212 22:56:38< mordante> I'm off night
20091212 22:56:40< Chusslove> stikonas: Actually, I used URW Chancery on Serbian Cyrillic version.
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20091212 22:57:25< Chusslove> I mentioned it in the article too as good alternative.
20091212 22:59:26< Zarel> You know what I find weird?
20091212 22:59:39< Zarel> Wesnoth lags on my MacBook more than Warzone does.
20091212 23:00:14< Zarel> And people always complain about how badly optimized Warzone is - plus it's a 3D game...
20091212 23:01:07< loonycyborg> It probably uses hardware acceleration :P
20091212 23:01:13< CIA-12> ivanovic * r40210 /trunk/po/wesnoth-units/de.po: updated German translation
20091212 23:02:01< Zarel> Yeah, it uses OpenGL to be specific.
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20091212 23:02:47< Zarel> It's also unbelievably slow on video cards with bad OpenGL (cough Intel GMA X3100 on Windows cough)
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20091212 23:21:34< CIA-12> caslav_ilic * r40211 /trunk/ (26 files in 10 dirs): Updated localized images for Hungarian.
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20091212 23:33:52< CIA-12> caslav_ilic * r40212 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Updated localized images for Hungarian.
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20091212 23:41:26< chpln> Morning.
20091212 23:41:46-!- Turuk [n=administ@pool-71-242-195-103.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091212 23:43:51< chpln> I'm wondering, has there been any changes to the MP servers in the last day or so?  I ask, as I can no longer connect to any except server3.wesnoth.org with 1.7.9 (tested 1.6.5 and 1.7.9).
20091212 23:44:26-!- dtiger [n=dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-13-102.telecom.by] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20091212 23:45:08< chpln> Yesterday only the official servers were afffected.
20091212 23:46:27< CIA-12> caslav_ilic * r40213 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated localized images for Hungarian.
20091212 23:46:50< loonycyborg> chpln: Seems to work for me. With trunk though.
20091212 23:47:37< chpln> loonycyborg: Hmm... perhaps it is related to boost-1.41.
20091212 23:48:34< chpln> I receive various "Unterminated quoted string" errors on 1.7.9, just after connecting.  1.6.5 does not connect at all.
20091212 23:49:32 * loonycyborg recompiles with boost 1.41
20091212 23:52:14< chpln> There's been another player that I know of with this issue.  They claim they can only reproduce it with x86_64.  i686 works fine.
20091212 23:52:56< loonycyborg> Then probably I'll be of little help. I have a 32bit os.
20091212 23:55:47< loonycyborg> Indeed. It still works for me with 1.41
20091212 23:57:12< chpln> OK.  I'm just trying a few more things.  Seems the error is intermittent.  With all of the servers, sometimes it connects, sometimes it fails.  Seemingly, the busier the server, the less likely it is to succeed.
20091212 23:57:52< loonycyborg> The trunk server is the opposite of busy :P
20091212 23:58:29< chpln> I'll build it and see how it goes
20091212 23:58:34< Soliton> the trunk server is quite busy since everyone connects there.
--- Log closed Sun Dec 13 00:00:39 2009