--- Log opened Mon Dec 21 00:00:01 2009
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20091221 01:41:32< esr> Wow, Kitty did an amazing job on the Four Oracles for DM.
20091221 01:42:49< shadowmaster> where?
20091221 01:43:20< shadowmaster> ah never mind. I just had to click at the right of your name
20091221 01:45:09< esr> shadowmaster: I just wired them in, resync and walk through DM:Overture to see.
20091221 01:46:04< esr> Oh, crap.  Commit failled...
20091221 01:46:18< esr> ..player_changelog was OOD.  WAit...
20091221 01:47:21< CIA-28> esr * r40315 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Portraits of the Four Oracles for DM.
20091221 01:47:22< esr> OK, they're in now.
20091221 01:52:15< shadowmaster> grr, too many mainline campaigns to find DM in the list
20091221 01:53:02< shadowmaster> esr: why are Delfador's "smiley lines" translatable?
20091221 01:53:56< esr> Erm, probably because the original author wrote them that way and I never thought about it.
20091221 01:54:19< CIA-28> espreon * r40316 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/images/portraits/ (oracle1.png oracle2.png oracle3.png oracle4.png): Ran set-properties on the new portraits; ran wesnoth-optipng on said portraits; saved 23 KiB; 3%.
20091221 01:54:37< esr> Thanks, Espreon 
20091221 01:55:03 * shadowmaster :>
20091221 01:55:07< Espreon> You are welcome.
20091221 01:55:40< shadowmaster> I should make a parody campaign for next April Fools
20091221 01:56:27< loonycyborg> It definitely should parody and deconstruct Doomed Hometown.
20091221 01:56:34< shadowmaster> hanging a lampshade on every trope used by Wesnoth campaigns
20091221 01:57:04< Espreon> I should make a campaign where this is the final boss: http://www.catchannel.com/images/articles/articleimages/caracal1_400px.jpg
20091221 01:57:24< shadowmaster> if we made such campaign we'd also need a cameo from Turuk.
20091221 01:58:20< shadowmaster> and Tux, the unused Pnegiun in IftU
20091221 01:58:22< Espreon> shadowmaster: You have to have "That Level"
20091221 01:58:25< shadowmaster> *Penguin
20091221 01:59:44 * shadowmaster goes to have tea and try to work on a more serious campaign
20091221 02:00:24< loonycyborg> Which one? ATS?
20091221 02:00:38< shadowmaster> AtS, yes
20091221 02:00:57< shadowmaster> new version coming so- When It's Done!
20091221 02:01:36< shadowmaster> I'm approaching the hardest part in which I need to extrapolate information from UtBS
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20091221 02:26:01< Espreon> Hola fmunoz.
20091221 02:27:01< fmunoz> hi
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20091221 02:48:21< Appleman1234> shadowmaster, doesn't orcish shyde have one in the works ?
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20091221 03:59:35< Zarel> Spam alert!
20091221 03:59:35< Zarel> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28209
20091221 03:59:39< Zarel> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28208
20091221 04:01:42< Espreon> I shall take care of it...
20091221 04:04:15< Espreon> Done.
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20091221 04:32:03< Espreon> fmunoz: Around?
20091221 04:32:20< fmunoz> yes
20091221 04:32:59< Espreon> Perhaps you should forsake that Bone Knight and clean up and animate this one: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/Invasion_from_the_Unknown/images/units/undead-skeletal/boneknight.png?revision=2409&view=markup
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20091221 04:39:44< fmunoz> good, but I wanted to change those before next release. Not really hard just copy+paste in a assembly line fashion.
20091221 04:40:41< fmunoz> if there is time afterwards I'll try to play with that one
20091221 04:40:53< Espreon> OK.
20091221 04:43:23< Espreon> Thanks.
20091221 04:43:25< fmunoz> but the skeleton rider from IftU... need a new hose (the old one fitted better).. I'll try to merge both
20091221 04:43:32< fmunoz> horse
20091221 04:46:06< Espreon> Eh, I think that it would be better if a new horse was just created.
20091221 04:46:54< Espreon> Especially since the horses of the being-redone horse-based units are being made larger.
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20091221 08:55:19< Appleman1234> I am trying to update some old maps I made using wmllint and it doesn't seem to be doing anything, any ideas ?
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20091221 09:05:46< Appleman1234> do I have download an old version of wmllint to get it to work ?
20091221 09:09:39< Appleman1234> yeah it seems I do
20091221 09:09:49< Appleman1234> thanks for the comments in the header esr
20091221 09:21:49< Appleman1234> all updated , only glitch was on the 10 player map
20091221 09:22:12< Appleman1234> and that is probably because wmllint didn't recognised the player start or the feature was dropped
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20091221 10:49:57< Ivanovic> moin
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20091221 12:35:56< mordante> servus
20091221 12:36:16< mordante> alink feel free to revert r40311, I won't be able to work on it today
20091221 12:36:49< mordante> I think I know a better fix, which in turn might also fix the select issue, but will look at that later
20091221 12:43:44< alink> mordante: IIRC the test done yesterday, removing the assert caused less (temporay) troubles. That is: only caused a visual glitches whtch icons, but at least keep the selection system usable
20091221 12:44:09< alink> s/whtch/with
20091221 12:44:45< alink> (i don't know how i create these typos)
20091221 12:45:20< fendrin> Jetrel: Nice new elf lady. Can we keep the old one as a lvl0 elvish maid?
20091221 12:45:32< Jetrel> fendrin:  absolutely not.
20091221 12:45:42< Jetrel> completely deleted.
20091221 12:45:56< Jetrel> fendrin:  it's an awful graphic.  It's badly made.
20091221 12:46:16< Jetrel> fendrin:  this is the price of being good; being willing to cull what's not.
20091221 12:47:06< fendrin> Jetrel: Okay, I get the point. I'm just too unartistic to recognize bad art.
20091221 12:47:37< Jetrel> fendrin:  even assuming that, surely we wouldn't be removing perfectly good art?
20091221 12:48:23< Jetrel> pretty much every time we replace something, it's because we're embarrassed by what we removed.
20091221 12:48:35< zookeeper> what
20091221 12:48:50< zookeeper> surely the old one wasn't "awful"
20091221 12:49:04< Jetrel> zookeeper:  yes, it was awful - really awful.
20091221 12:49:15< Jetrel> One of the worst sprites I've ever made, actually.
20091221 12:49:41< Ivanovic> zookeeper: this is a clear case of "wesnoth looks too good by now!"
20091221 12:49:44< fendrin> My opinion was that exchanging of art is sometimes done because of having all in a unique style and not always because of lacking quality 
20091221 12:49:58< Ivanovic> (IMO we are already better looking than many old day pixel based games eg on the snes
20091221 12:50:47< zookeeper> Jetrel, well, in that case i just don't see it
20091221 12:50:56< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  actually a surprisingly correct fact.  Nostalgia has a high bullshit factor, and in fact there were only a small number of SNES games that had actually "good" sprite art.
20091221 12:51:18< Ivanovic> Jetrel: as comparision i tend to like chrono trigger and secret of mana
20091221 12:51:23< Ivanovic> since those IMO had quite good artwork
20091221 12:51:48< Jetrel> Zookeeper:  lack of shading, too much noise, anatomical incorrectness, some serious mess on the face, etc.
20091221 12:52:37< zookeeper> Jetrel, sure, i don't doubt any of that. i'm just saying that no one really sees it as awful except you pixel artsy people :p
20091221 12:53:00< Jetrel> Ivanovic:   yeah.  Secret of Mana was okay, chrono trigger was good.  A game to check out is Secret of Mana 2 - aka "Seiken Densetsu 3", since it never was officially released outside of japan.
20091221 12:53:26< Ivanovic> Jetrel: of course i know secret of mana 2, but it is too good to use it for comparision!
20091221 12:53:38< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  they had a massive improvement in art quality between the two games, with virtually all other variables held constant.  (Still a snes game, etc)
20091221 12:53:42< Ivanovic> what also looked really good was "illusion of time"
20091221 12:53:52< Jetrel> Illusion of time?
20091221 12:54:02< Ivanovic> Jetrel: one graphic that i think looks awfull is this unit: http://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/C/Fire%20Dragon.html
20091221 12:54:21< Ivanovic> it just dos not look like a dragon, it looks like some dinosaur with some strange cape attached
20091221 12:54:41< Ivanovic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_Gaia
20091221 12:54:42< zookeeper> i'm sure the right people could find enough flaws in any of the best portraits and music tracks we have to classify them as horrible crap
20091221 12:54:46< Ivanovic> sorry, used the german name
20091221 12:55:32< Jetrel> Ivanovic: yeah - neorice was drawing more of a wyvern/front-limb-less graphic, but honestly, the biggest problem there was cramming it into the hex.  This is why our current ability to spill out was such an important thing to add.
20091221 12:56:04< Ivanovic> Jetrel: IIRC there was some dragon rework in the forum, something that was *huge* and great looking
20091221 12:56:09< zookeeper> the thing about snes games is that the sprites are very rarely as big as wesnoth sprites
20091221 12:57:00< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  yeah; eternal's (very slowly) working on it.
20091221 13:01:42< Ivanovic> in general i like the work done by pixelmind in this thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23777
20091221 13:02:38< CIA-28> alink * r40317 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/window.cpp: 
20091221 13:02:38< CIA-28> Temporary disable an assert preventing to test campaign's trunk
20091221 13:02:38< CIA-28> (problem caused by r40311). Note there is still a small icon glitch.
20091221 13:02:51< alink> mordante: ^ temporary fix
20091221 13:03:32 * zookeeper thinks the portrait is also good
20091221 13:04:30< zookeeper> and yeah, the sprite itself is tons better than the current one.
20091221 13:04:58< fendrin> Ivanovic: I like the new dragon by pixelmind as well. It's cute.
20091221 13:05:27< Ivanovic> and it looks like what most (western) people will expect when they hear "red dragon"
20091221 13:06:35< zookeeper> (and at least it has shadows)
20091221 13:06:59< fendrin> The fire dragon from Eternal is more asiatic style. I would like to have both in wesnoth.
20091221 13:08:01< Jetrel> too bad.
20091221 13:08:54< Jetrel> *sigh* this is really a bad time to be bringing up bullshit like this;  I'm not in a good mood.
20091221 13:09:23< Jetrel> pixelmind's dragon is well animated; that's the only thing good about it.
20091221 13:09:38< Jetrel> Otherwise it looks like cartoony ... shit.  It's just fucking terrible.
20091221 13:10:25< Jetrel> Like something out of a scooby-doo episode.
20091221 13:10:36< zookeeper> bad mood, eh? i can tell ;)
20091221 13:11:05< Appleman1234> hmmm
20091221 13:12:03< fendrin> I had to overhear a conversation between an old man and a student girl from china. The old man asked her if she knows Bill Gates, the guy who invented the microchip and the internet. I had problems not to get loud.
20091221 13:12:09< loonycyborg> Jetrel: You mean Scrappy-Doo? :P
20091221 13:12:49< Ivanovic> Jetrel: yet the dragon looks by far more like a dragon than the one we currently ship
20091221 13:12:56< Jetrel> seriously; hearing these sorts of art suggestions from people with no clue is about as painful as a linux hacker watching someone install winME on a machine.
20091221 13:12:58< Ivanovic> yes, it looks somehow comic like
20091221 13:13:13< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  that's a much lower priority.
20091221 13:13:21< Jetrel> quality of rendering is king.
20091221 13:13:24< Ivanovic> but what we currently have, uhm, hurts the eyes...
20091221 13:14:45< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  FWIW, I personally wouldn't mind spending some time over the next month and getting eternal's base frame polished-up and ingame.  I do agree that even as a still-image, it'd be better.
20091221 13:15:43< Ivanovic> in general my feeling, when lookung at units.wesnoth.org, is that the "recruitable units" are really well looking by now
20091221 13:16:04< Ivanovic> though some of the monsters are lacking, where the dragon is just the (by far) worst
20091221 13:17:06< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  I need to touch up some of the recruitable units, but yes, they're generally pretty good.  I need to go over the cavalry, and do some minor touch-ups on the elves, since they need their animations completely redone.
20091221 13:17:24< Ivanovic> oh, right, the skeletal dragon (non recruitable special monster) does look like a pile of bones, too...
20091221 13:18:17< Ivanovic> not 100% sure, but the ancient lich could use some touch up, too
20091221 13:18:19< fendrin> What bugs me most is the lack of a complete set of terrain graphics when coding scenarios. It's so hard to make a good map that reflects the home of drake or saurians for example. No villages, no keeps. And winter terrain sets are also incomplete.
20091221 13:19:34 * Jetrel leaves.
20091221 13:19:41< Ivanovic> cu Jetrel
20091221 13:20:26< Jetrel> Don't mean to be a sourpuss, but I've got really limited time for wesnoth ATM, and it's extremely frustrating for me, too.
20091221 13:20:58< Jetrel> I'm hoping to get the wolves and cavalry redone very soon;  actually was meaning to do one tonight, but ... as you can see, it ain't done, and it ain't time for me to be awake either.
20091221 13:21:09< Ivanovic> wow, the "Giant Rat" in DiD looks *ugly* and not really well distinguisable
20091221 13:21:35< Ivanovic> no wonder that it is campaign specific and not "real" mainline
20091221 13:22:00< Jetrel> The dragon is on my list, but it's very low - all recruitable are by default higher on the list even if they only have minor issues, because some people never see anything but them.
20091221 13:22:11< Ivanovic> of course
20091221 13:22:32< Ivanovic> ugh, better never ever ook at the "Rouge Mage" line in liberty
20091221 13:22:45< Ivanovic> the shadow mage looks like, uhm, no idea how to describe it...
20091221 13:23:21< Ivanovic> fendrin, esr, zookeeper: is there any reason for the "campaign specific" water serpent in NR?
20091221 13:23:28< Ivanovic> this unit is already available in mainline
20091221 13:23:28< Jetrel> Ivanovic:  fortunately we have replacements coming really soon for those, courtesy of fmunoz+syntax_error.
20091221 13:23:37< Jetrel> and I really, really need to leave.
20091221 13:23:38< Ivanovic> Jetrel: great!
20091221 13:23:40< Ivanovic> cu
20091221 13:24:30< Ivanovic> zookeeper: uhm, why are all of the wose listed in trow?
20091221 13:24:54< zookeeper> because the sapling is there
20091221 13:25:09< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20091221 13:26:37< Ivanovic> zookeeper: but data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/units/Fireball.cfg can be removed, right?
20091221 13:26:47< Ivanovic> it seems to not be referenced in all of trow
20091221 13:27:14< esr> Ivanovic: I can run wnlscope to check.
20091221 13:27:54< Ivanovic> esr: grep says that this is the only file inside of the trow folder where "Fireball" is used
20091221 13:28:00< Ivanovic> and since the id is "Fireball"...
20091221 13:28:53< zookeeper> yeah, it's probably not used anymore
20091221 13:28:55< esr> Ivanovic: Looking at it.
20091221 13:28:57< zookeeper> (thank goodness)
20091221 13:29:32< esr> Hmmm...wmlscope won't pick that up.  No unique image.
20091221 13:30:06< Ivanovic> esr: i am talking about the plain old config file with translateable strings
20091221 13:30:11< Ivanovic> (as in "reduce string count")
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20091221 13:30:23< esr> I know.
20091221 13:30:40< esr> Yes, looks like it can be removed.
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20091221 13:35:39< Ivanovic> okay, will do so
20091221 13:36:25< CIA-28> ivanovic * r40318 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/units/Fireball.cfg: remove the "Fireball" from tRoW since it is unused
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20091221 17:02:35< mordante> alink yes I think I know how to fix both, but don't have time today
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20091221 18:21:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 73 bugs, 247 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091221 21:23:49< CIA-28> esr * r40319 /trunk/data/ (41 files in 12 dirs): Reindent mainline. Most of these changes are tab expansions.
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20091221 22:08:21< CIA-28> esr * r40320 /trunk/data/ (campaigns/Two_Brothers/_main.cfg tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py): wmlscope/wmllint cleanup.
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20091221 22:35:25< shadowmaster> GODS
20091221 22:35:59< shadowmaster> this is why I hate WesCamp-i18n; why do all the campaigns' binary files have to be uploaded too?!
20091221 22:36:19< shadowmaster> mordante:  ^
20091221 22:36:30< shadowmaster> I can't really be bothered to update my campaign's translations anymore.
20091221 22:38:56< shadowmaster> I mean, if you are using a custom script to upload files, can't you add a simple rule to exclude *.ogg, *.png, *.wav, *.jpg and *.jpeg files?
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20091221 22:41:04< CIA-28> esr * r40321 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py: Make it easier to exclude directories for VCSes from resource trees.
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20091221 23:02:32< CIA-28> esr * r40322 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/01_The_Elves_Besieged.cfg: 
20091221 23:02:32< CIA-28> Address bug #14978: Custom Chantal portrait not used in the HttT Elves Besieged
20091221 23:02:32< CIA-28> scenario.
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20091221 23:30:25< stikonas> esr: I think that your last commit is not working
20091221 23:30:40< stikonas> now Chantal does not have any portrait at all
20091221 23:31:08< Espreon>  stikonas: esr doesn't read the logs unless he is forced to do so.
20091221 23:31:12 * Aethaeryn points out that esr is not on IRC
20091221 23:31:15< Aethaeryn> Bah..
20091221 23:35:01< stikonas> Ivanovic: with recent version of wesnoth, at the beginning of the scenario, wesnoth prints whose turn it is (e.g. It is now Konrad's turn). And the name of the player is not translatable at all
20091221 23:35:32< stikonas> I have httt translated 100%. Nevertheless, Konrad's name is not translated in this string
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20091221 23:37:09< stikonas> Espreon: maybe you can at least change Bug status here: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14978
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20091221 23:37:31< Espreon> stikonas: I'll try to fix it first.
20091221 23:37:32< stikonas> Even if esr does not read IRC logs, he should still receive emails
20091221 23:37:37< stikonas> ah, ok
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20091221 23:43:30< shadowmaster> mordante: even better, you could just exclude any file that doesn't match the #textdomain wesnoth-Addon_Name\n expression
20091221 23:44:04< shadowmaster> #textdomain wesnoth-Addon_Directory-Name\n
20091221 23:44:19< shadowmaster> gaaa stupid connection
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20091221 23:53:12< shadowmaster> shikadibot_: repo
20091221 23:53:14< shikadibot_> Repository URI: http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 22 00:00:11 2009