--- Log opened Tue Dec 29 00:00:18 2009
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20091229 00:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.11, announcing "soon" | string/feature freeze active! | 60 bugs, 246 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091229 03:16:10< CIA-28> esr * r40440 /trunk/players_changelog: Typo fix.
20091229 03:16:25< CIA-28> ai0867 * r40441 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Yet more indentation in game_events.cpp
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20091229 04:09:02< CIA-28> espreon * r40442 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added the Latin version of the main map.
20091229 04:09:14< Espreon> Aethaeryn: ^
20091229 04:09:19< Espreon> Enjoy.
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20091229 04:18:54< CIA-28> espreon * r40443 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated the changelogs.
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20091229 04:46:50< Aethaeryn> Espreon: ty. Busy holidays, but I should submit a bit Latin update sometime "soon"
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20091229 04:48:36< Espreon> You are welcome.
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20091229 05:46:45< CIA-28> espreon * r40444 /branches/resources/image-localization/la/wesnoth.xcf: Added xcf for the Latin version of the main map.
20091229 05:50:47< CIA-28> espreon * r40445 /branches/resources/image-localization/la/trow-logo.xcf: Added the xcf for the Latin version of the TRoW logo.
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20091229 06:46:24< PeterFA> What are the restrictions for a commercial BfW campaign?
20091229 06:46:59< PeterFA> In #wesnoth, I was told not to post on the forums, and to keep distributing the GPL'ed code as GPL coded.
20091229 06:47:04< PeterFA> code*
20091229 06:48:54< Espreon> esr: ^
20091229 06:58:13< noy> PeterFA: can you explain further?
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20091229 07:48:43< PeterFA> noy: I mean, like producing a campaign and selling that. I'd use the BfW game but make my own campaign and sell the campaign commercially.
20091229 07:49:06< noy> I don't believe that is legally permissible. 
20091229 07:50:04< PeterFA> I think it is. I wouldn't sell BfW or the code, but distribute it with the campaign.
20091229 07:50:15< noy> would you use its art?
20091229 07:50:22< noy> for your campaign?
20091229 07:50:37< PeterFA> noy: of course not, that would be illegal.
20091229 07:51:17< PeterFA> noy: unless of course I decided to try and get such a license from the owners and they some how agreed, which I won't try to do.
20091229 07:52:53< Espreon> Well, using GPL'd content is fine as long as you distribute the material for free under the terms of the GPL... I think...
20091229 07:53:35< PeterFA> Which means if I use it in the campaign, then the campaign must be GPL or else it's a violation. Thus I make all my own content.
20091229 07:53:47< noy> I think its legal, the question is whether its worth it?
20091229 07:54:01< PeterFA> Espreon: to be precise, GPL does allow for charging for distribution.
20091229 07:54:09< Espreon> True...
20091229 07:54:23< PeterFA> noy: depends on the value.
20091229 07:54:29< Espreon> As long as you allow that content to be reused, 'tis fine...
20091229 07:54:52< PeterFA> A "Hello World"-esque campaign wouldn't sell.
20091229 07:55:36< PeterFA> That's not how I thought the GPL meant. That's like saying the images you produce with The GIMP must also be free.
20091229 07:57:02< noy> to be honest, I can't answer this question 
20091229 07:57:13< PeterFA> Ok.
20091229 07:57:13< noy> I could probably produce guidelines for you
20091229 07:57:51< noy> that would give you a sense, but its a hypothetical that I'd rather not delve into
20091229 07:58:08< noy> Moreover I'd question whether its worth it
20091229 07:58:26< noy> do you have a talented artist lined up to work on it?
20091229 07:58:56< noy> do you really think this is going to be profitable at all?
20091229 08:00:01< noy> I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem practical at all. 
20091229 08:08:00< PeterFA> Well, I do have an artist who could do the work but it's still an idea I'm kicking around. I could try and get an investor to get a good financial basis for this and that'll allow me to really produce a lot of quality quickly and own it all. It's just that the BfW platform gave me an idea that might be profitable.
20091229 08:08:18< PeterFA> So, this is exploratory stage which means I want to check to see if it is possible and valuable.
20091229 08:09:09< Espreon> Be prepared to do some serious black/blue *magick* with Lua to make it interesting. — That is all I am going to say.
20091229 08:11:03< PeterFA> Espreon: what do you mean?
20091229 08:11:51< Espreon> Lua, a scripting language, can be used within WML to do some pretty cool stuff....
20091229 08:12:26< Espreon> So, you'll need some cool features to make it worthwhile for one to even be interested.
20091229 08:12:42< PeterFA> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27583&start=0&hilit=commercial+campaign
20091229 08:12:55< Aethaeryn> PeterFA: There's two probelsm with it legally... One is that you ahve to compete with a lot of high quality free addons.
20091229 08:13:12< Aethaeryn> The other is that technically, it might be illegal because of a GPL interpretation.
20091229 08:13:42< Aethaeryn> Basically, if you handle WML as code, including GPLed code in your .cfg files would force you to license it under GPL. That's why they have the LGPL for libraries, so that proprietary programs can use it.
20091229 08:14:02< Aethaeryn> This might make it difficult to use macros, or possibly parts of the WML engine, really, I'm no lawyer, but that's the gist of it.
20091229 08:14:25< Aethaeryn> (Sorry, the first problem is commercially, the second is legally, 2am, sorry for typo)
20091229 08:14:41< Espreon> We'll have to wait for esr...
20091229 08:15:03< Aethaeryn> So basically, parts of the WML engine would have to be relicensed as LGPL to allow unchallengeable commercial campaigns.
20091229 08:15:39< Aethaeryn> At least, that's my interpretation of the *intentions* of the (L)GPL based on reading FSF literature, but I am not an expert on this area, nor on how the WML engine works.
20091229 08:16:15< Aethaeryn> And yeah, esr would have to tell you if my concern is misunderstanding WML or legitimate.
20091229 08:16:45< Aethaeryn> You may have trouble using macros (basically inclusion of code snippits in short hand from central game files), though, and a lot of them are commonly-used.
20091229 08:17:05< PeterFA> Is esr the owner?
20091229 08:17:21< Espreon> No/
20091229 08:17:22< Espreon> *.
20091229 08:17:30< Aethaeryn> There's three possible ways to read it: (1) impossible without parts of the game being LGPL instead of GPL, (2) possible, but you can't use mainline macros since that'd be GPL pieces in proprietary code, (3) possible with no problems
20091229 08:17:37< Espreon> He is a magister of the world of open source/free software.
20091229 08:17:40< Aethaeryn> PeterFA: esr is someone who would be able to do more than speculate.
20091229 08:17:57< Aethaeryn> But I think it would probably be one of the 3 scenarios I laid out
20091229 08:18:04< PeterFA> You could just make some sort of commercial API which resolves such a conflict, as in charging a small fee to make commercial compaigns.
20091229 08:18:48< Aethaeryn> Afaict, the reason there's a LGPL is to prevent GPL "infection" - allowing core libraries to be used by proprietary programs without them needing to be GPL-compatable in their licenses... thus allowing nonfree software on a free OS
20091229 08:19:23< Aethaeryn> But I'm not sure how this applies to Wesnoth. Worst case scenario is having to rewrite parts of the game engine in LGPL.
20091229 08:20:26< PeterFA> Well, can't the owner sell a commercial license? Like I refuse the GPL version, but he sends me a copy with a commercial license?
20091229 08:20:54< PeterFA> Hmm, I don't think that would make sense.
20091229 08:22:14< Soliton> there is no single owner.
20091229 08:22:14< PeterFA> I would have a problem distributing the code with a commercial product and saying, "the engine is free, try out some of these add-ons too, but you paid for a license for this campaign, which was commercially developed."
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20091229 08:27:51< Aethaeryn> PeterFA: the best solution would be to fork a stripped-down Wesnoth
20091229 08:28:04< Aethaeryn> And change all the images, the branding, etc.
20091229 08:28:27< Aethaeryn> The main menu screen, all of that.
20091229 08:28:57< Aethaeryn> For the purpose of being used as a game engine for a single-or-limited-campaign set-up rather than for all of what Wesnoth does.
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20091229 08:29:51< PeterFA> I was thinking of just shipping the addons as freebies and code on the same disc. The license does allow for me to distribute BfW, which I can piggy back on anything. I figure I might as well to encourage spreading of the game.
20091229 08:30:22< PeterFA> Because this is a commercial endavour, of course I can be expected to rebrand and redo all the graphics.
20091229 08:30:47< PeterFA> I didn't think of redoing the menu though.
20091229 08:31:56< Aethaeryn> Well, the menu image.
20091229 08:32:03< PeterFA> Anyways, it looks like I'll have to write my own WML. That will cost more but will be fine. If it's not feasable, I can just not do it :)
20091229 08:32:17< Aethaeryn> Well, I'd talk to esr about it.
20091229 08:32:41< Aethaeryn> All I can do is present hypothetical speculation. I've never actually read the GPL cover to cover and never read the Wesnoth source code cover to cover.
20091229 08:33:05< Aethaeryn> And I'm not a lawyer and I'm not that good of a programmer. :P
20091229 08:33:24< Aethaeryn> That's my disclaimer here. Only a few people, most creadibly esr, can speak with authority about what can and cannot be done.
20091229 08:33:25< noy> Well as the secretary I could look into this for you and produce guidelines Peter
20091229 08:33:33< Aethaeryn> noy too
20091229 08:33:47< noy> but to be honest I'd rather not do it because its an undertaking
20091229 08:33:55< PeterFA> Ok, I will. Though I wonder, why would you consider him so understanding.
20091229 08:33:56< PeterFA> ?
20091229 08:34:00< noy> and frankly I doubt this is feasible
20091229 08:34:06< Aethaeryn> PeterFA: esr is a published author
20091229 08:34:14< PeterFA> Ok.
20091229 08:34:24< Aethaeryn> So he knows more about the GPL than anyone else, I think
20091229 08:34:33< Aethaeryn> He wrote the license page for the wiki, for instance.
20091229 08:34:35< noy> PeterFA: I'm the secretary for Wesnoth, so this is also my purview. 
20091229 08:34:40< Aethaeryn> Right.
20091229 08:34:56< PeterFA> Besides, reusing the artwork would probably be unfair not just because I'm making money off of someone else's work but because it would confuse people.
20091229 08:35:06< Aethaeryn> noy can speak from the perspective of the project, esr is more of an expert on the terms of the GPL itself. Different areas of expertise.
20091229 08:35:19< Aethaeryn> noy = the guy running the actual foundation thing
20091229 08:35:21< PeterFA> noy: guidelines would be great.
20091229 08:35:51< noy> From my understanding there is likely a legal feasibility for what you want to do; in reality however its probably practically impossible to do
20091229 08:36:32< PeterFA> Why not produce a commercial WML library? Charge a fee and let people make their own commercial compaigns? Then using the revenue for the organizational needs.
20091229 08:37:58< noy> because thats against the spirit of the project
20091229 08:38:18< noy> we're really not interested in making cash
20091229 08:38:32< noy> we'd like to be comfortable to do some limited things
20091229 08:38:34< Espreon> Indeed.
20091229 08:38:50< noy> but we're not interested in "selling" our product in that way
20091229 08:39:39< Aethaeryn> There's not really that much need for profit in a non-profit organization.
20091229 08:39:53< Aethaeryn> Especially since selling a product like that would seem very for-profit-y
20091229 08:40:45< PeterFA> Ok.
20091229 08:44:09< noy> If anything I kinda see wesnoth as partly an entertainment program that has a significant educational aspect
20091229 08:44:19< noy> that we are trying to promote good programming
20091229 08:44:43< noy> by providing something that people can learn how to program
20091229 08:44:49< noy> better
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20091229 08:52:00< PeterFA> So, when would I find esr online?
20091229 08:52:27< Espreon> During the day in the Eastern United States.
20091229 08:52:34< Espreon> 'Tis 2:52 AM here.
20091229 08:52:44< Espreon> (The Eastern United States)
20091229 08:54:40< PeterFA> Ok, great.
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20091229 13:16:06< esr> I'm here, when PeterFA rematerializes.  I can answer his questions.
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20091229 14:30:03< CIA-28> espreon * r40446 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/ (. scenario_one): Added a file that explains scenario one's events. This is preparation for the 1.9 era.
20091229 14:30:10< Espreon> fendrin: ^
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20091229 14:32:45 * zookeeper wonders why people like to not use file extensions
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20091229 14:35:06< CIA-28> espreon * r40447 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/ (scenario_01 scenario_one): Changed the filename so that it uses a number instead of a word.
20091229 14:35:47< Espreon> Meh, me and my tendency to spell out numbers.
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20091229 16:44:13< CIA-28> silene * r40448 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/_main.cfg: Prevented LoW-specific Lua code from leaking.
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20091229 17:27:49< CIA-28> espreon * r40449 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/scenario_01: Made it only explain what happens... yayz...
20091229 17:27:52< Espreon> fendrin: ^
20091229 17:29:54< fendrin> Espreon: Yes, that is how it should look like.
20091229 17:31:33< Espreon> Good.
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20091229 17:32:22< fendrin> Espreon: Don't forget to connect the issues with each other. If A must be done before B can happen that needs to be mentioned. Maybe you define a syntax to describe that easily.
20091229 17:33:53< Espreon> The issues are connected with the magical word "if"
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20091229 17:52:00< CIA-28> ivanovic * r40450 /trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): updated Italian translation
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20091229 18:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.11, announcing "soon" | string/feature freeze active! | 61 bugs, 246 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20091229 19:39:59< thespaceinvader> wesbot: seen turuk
20091229 19:39:59< wesbot> thespaceinvader: The person with the nick Turuk last spoke 12d 20h ago.  11d 14h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message:
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20091229 19:48:14< Velensk> I've just encountered an extremely odd bug that went away partway through the game I was playing and I was wondering if anyone else has had it. I was playing on the dev server and my opponent did not appear to be chatting back at me. At one point I checked the chat log and found that he had been talking the whole game however it didn't appear on my screen for some reason.
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20091229 20:08:06< CIA-28> esr * r40451 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/maps/Peoples_in_Decline.map: 
20091229 20:08:06< CIA-28> Cursed Isle was too tropical for its latitude. Mix temmperate forest into the
20091229 20:08:06< CIA-28> vetgetation, especially in the central belt.
20091229 20:12:26< esr> Oops!  Copied onto the wrong map!
20091229 20:15:39< CIA-28> esr * r40452 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/maps/Peoples_in_Decline.map: Revert previous change, I copied onto the wrong map.
20091229 20:20:55-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20091229 20:21:24< Espreon> thespaceinvader: Turuk probably went back... so... he's going to be gone for quite a while.
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20091229 20:21:50< thespaceinvader> Espreon: i hadn't followed exactly what was goign on with him
20091229 20:21:57< thespaceinvader> i know he hasn't been about for a couple of weeks
20091229 20:21:58< Espreon> He's in the military.
20091229 20:22:06< thespaceinvader> oh, i know that much ;)
20091229 20:22:19< thespaceinvader> i didn't follow entirely what deployments were happening etc
20091229 20:22:30< Espreon> I see...
20091229 20:23:17< thespaceinvader> i should probably check it on facebook
20091229 20:23:28< Espreon> fendrin: Still around?
20091229 20:23:59< fendrin> Espreon: yes
20091229 20:24:18< Espreon> I shall begin producing moar.
20091229 20:25:00< Espreon> So, yeahz...
20091229 20:27:20< Espreon> fendrin: Do you think that I should include a note explaining the purpose of the docs directory so that players don't go like "WTF‽"
20091229 20:34:00< CIA-28> esr * r40453 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/maps/Cursed_Isle.map: 
20091229 20:34:00< CIA-28> Try copying onto the right map this time...change a good bit of the vegetation
20091229 20:34:00< CIA-28> to temoerate-zone forest, otherwise this island is too tropical for its
20091229 20:34:00< CIA-28> latritude even if we assume some strong Gulf-Stream-Like warm current.
20091229 20:34:08< fendrin> Espreon: I don't think players bother much about the files on their harddisks but I can't seem any harm in doing it either...
20091229 20:34:24< Espreon> OK.
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20091229 20:37:41< mordante> servus
20091229 20:37:47< fendrin> hi mordante
20091229 20:38:11< mordante> hi fendrin 
20091229 20:38:27< Espreon> Hello mordante.
20091229 20:38:33< mordante> hi Espreon 
20091229 20:38:52< Espreon> mordante: Were you serious when you said that you liked the menu without the black background?
20091229 20:38:59< mordante> Espreon, yes
20091229 20:39:20< mordante> otherwise I _would_ have put in a black background
20091229 20:39:25< Espreon> Damn it.
20091229 20:39:44< Espreon> Then I guess this means that you are not going to reimplement it.
20091229 20:39:47< Espreon> Oh well...
20091229 20:39:59< mordante> indeed
20091229 20:40:19< mordante> but I still want to look at adding the tiled background back
20091229 20:40:37< fendrin> Hell, why does the compiler don't like the 	"typedef pair<map_location, locset> loc_pair;" statement? error: expected initializer before ‘<’ token
20091229 20:40:55< mordante> try std::pair instead of pair
20091229 20:41:12< fendrin> mordante: Oh, I am stupid.
20091229 20:42:05< Espreon> mordante: Out of curiosity, where was the tiled background used?
20091229 20:42:53< mordante> the old gui for the background of the dialogs, they're scaled now and on larger screens it looks a bit ugly
20091229 20:43:12< Espreon> fendrin: Expect the file production to take awhile, as I am compiling a bunch of stuff.
20091229 20:43:39< fendrin> Espreon: No problem, I am busy with other projects as well.
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20091229 21:03:16< Espreon> fendrin: The music lists for UtBS really need to be fixed.
20091229 21:03:24< Espreon> It has the battle theme in the second scenario...
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20091229 21:05:42< fendrin> Espreon: Too true...
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20091229 21:11:17< Espreon> Who even thought of assigning the battle theme to the second scenario?
20091229 21:14:21< CIA-28> silene * r40454 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (lua/label.lua maps/Kalian_map.cfg scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg): Fixed labels not being positioned with respect to the map excerpt.
20091229 21:14:24< CIA-28> silene * r40455 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/lua/replace_map.lua: Removed useless requirement.
20091229 21:15:38< Crab_> silene: thanks for fixing that (40454)
20091229 21:17:04< silene> yeah, it was annoying me to no end (and the first time i was like "wtf could these labels mean?!")
20091229 21:23:17< mordante> I'm off bye
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20091229 21:33:44< CIA-28> espreon * r40456 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/scenario_02: Added an events list file for scenario two.
20091229 21:33:52< Espreon> fendrin: ^
20091229 21:37:58< CIA-28> espreon * r40457 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/note: Added a note that explains the purpose of the files in docs/.
20091229 21:40:06< fendrin> Espreon: I guess the battle theme was assigned at a time where the set of music in wesnoth was very limited.
20091229 21:40:38< Espreon> No, UtBS got all of these music list changes in the 1.5 æra.
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20091229 21:41:25< CIA-28> espreon * r40458 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/note: (ash)ra -> era; Gna seems to hate Unicode.
20091229 21:42:00< Espreon> Probably wouldn't matter, but, meh.
20091229 21:42:50< Espreon> fendrin: Would you please review "scenario_02" if you have not planned to do so?
20091229 21:43:16 * fendrin needs some help with: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d49bd3059
20091229 21:45:11< fendrin> Espreon: fine, thanks.
20091229 21:45:27< Espreon> You are welcome.
20091229 21:46:01< fendrin> Espreon: Do you mind including zookeeper suggestions on #wesnoth-umc-dev to your file for scenario1?
20091229 21:46:58< loonycyborg> fendrin: Your typedef loc_pair doesn't contain * like params do.
20091229 21:47:08< loonycyborg> Why do you even use poiners here?
20091229 21:47:35< loonycyborg> s/params/return value
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20091229 21:48:03< Espreon> fendrin: Not at all.
20091229 21:48:19< fendrin> loonycyborg: In case of a village teleportation every village will be linked to everyone else. So pointers do reduce the size of the structure.
20091229 21:49:17< fendrin> Espreon: Thank you :-)
20091229 21:49:39< Crab_> fendrin: but, for each village, the set of 'connected villages' will be different, isn't it ?
20091229 21:49:48< loonycyborg> Even then I prefer references in cush cases.
20091229 21:49:57< loonycyborg> s/cush/such
20091229 21:50:13< Espreon> fendrin: Thou art most welcome.
20091229 21:50:17< fendrin> loonycyborg: I don't get your explanation for the error. I am iterating over tunnels and tunnels is the structure that actualy holds the data we are pointing to. So the typedef must match tunnels, not the return value.
20091229 21:50:34< fendrin> Crab_: No, why should it?
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20091229 21:52:31< loonycyborg> When you use foreach the type of variable must match the value type of container, or at least be convertible to it. What is the type of tunnels_?
20091229 21:52:49< loonycyborg> Ah. It's on line 1. Duh.
20091229 21:53:45< Crab_> fendrin: I think that you're trying to get a non-const pointer to a const set
20091229 21:55:09< fendrin> loonycyborg: Please have a look at the first line of the pastebin.
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20091229 21:55:17< Crab_> fendrin: i.e tunnels_ is effectively const (as gamemap::tunnels()  is const), then p.second is a const set, and with &(p.second) you get a const pointer to that set
20091229 21:58:06< fendrin> Crab_: Oh, const is realy killing my mind.
20091229 21:58:45 * fendrin wants to code in a language called "c++ -const"
20091229 21:59:16< Crab_> fendrin: for example, you can be const-correct and use pointers-to-const  ( ' const std::set<map_location>* ' )  for values of your map, thus guaranteeing that you'll not going to modify those map locations through those pointers
20091229 21:59:16< loonycyborg> Maybe try std::map<map_location, const std::set<map_location>* > res;
20091229 21:59:41< Crab_> fendrin: but, why not simply return a const reference to tunnels_ ? why do you need to make that transformed copy ?
20091229 22:00:30< alink> Crab_: so, bug #15013 is purely AI ? (I didn't check it yet)
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20091229 22:03:32< alink> (i just assigned it to myself because i recenlty worked on goto, but i am busy these days, so thanks)
20091229 22:03:45< Crab_> alink: it might not be purely AI, but I think that investigating that issue should start with AI, since gotos are used internally by AI, too, and changes in handling of gotos might affect AI behavior
20091229 22:06:10< Crab_> alink: so, I decided to intercept that bug and take a look at it because I might want to say 'hey, this is a feature, not a bug' later :)
20091229 22:08:10< alink> Crab_: yeah np, i was already half-expecting assign it to you (just wanted to check if it was not ai-specific) :)
20091229 22:13:21< fendrin> Crab_: At some point I need the transformation to the structure with the pointer because that is what is wanted by the astarsearch algo.
20091229 22:13:46< Crab_> ok
20091229 22:16:23< CIA-28> espreon * r40459 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/scenario_01: Added zookeeper's suggestions for scenario one.
20091229 22:16:28< Espreon> fendrin: Done.
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20091229 22:41:53< fendrin> Hihi, just removing every const everywhere solved the issue.
20091229 22:42:49< Crab_> fendrin: yes, but you lost the protection of an angry compiler saying 'you can't do this' or 'you can't do that' :)
20091229 22:45:30< fendrin> Crab_: I know and hope to have learned enough about const to use it right soon.
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20091229 23:46:11< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: the mac binary is online?
20091229 23:51:43< stikonas> Ivanovic: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.7.11/Wesnoth_1.7.11.dmg/download
20091229 23:52:08< stikonas> Available since December 29
20091229 23:52:52< Ivanovic> nice
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20091229 23:53:07< Ivanovic> then i can announce while drinking my tea tomorrow in the morning
20091229 23:53:12< Ivanovic> (in some 12 hours)
20091229 23:54:50< stikonas> if you are always waiting for binaries maybe there is no need to post "PS: Within the next seven days anyone asking when the binary for xyz..." in release announcement
20091229 23:56:19< stikonas> when there were no packagers this sentence surely makes sense, but now it probably doesn't make any difference
20091229 23:58:18< Ivanovic> stikonas: i tend to at least allow the mac and windows packagers about two days
20091229 23:58:33< Ivanovic> this much waiting is always appropriate (at least in my opinion)
20091229 23:59:13< Ivanovic> and the "*crying child sounds* where is the binary for distribution ABC" stuff is just to annoying and covered by the sentence, too
--- Log closed Wed Dec 30 00:00:14 2009