--- Log opened Tue Dec 29 00:00:18 2009
20091229 00:00:45< Sacho> if you've played a few tbs games you should have no problem just picking up stuff as you go
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20091229 00:04:26< bluefox83> i've never played a turn based game in my life >.>
20091229 00:04:35< bluefox83> not that style anyways
20091229 00:07:59< VurtualRuler98> Try playing maps and campaigns that are unbalanced in your favor by a bit.
20091229 00:08:19< VurtualRuler98> So you can learn the game a little, then play standard maps, then players.
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20091229 00:08:52< shadowmaster> ... or playing the tutorial. If you really know how to play, you'll waste just 8 minutes.
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20091229 01:01:13< joshua__> whee here we go compiling wesnoth 1.7.10 from RAM
20091229 01:02:52< joshua__> anybody know how to set -Os in scons?
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20091229 01:05:07< shadowmaster> joshua__: scons --help, check the extra_flags_* parameters
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20091229 01:06:42< joshua__> I don't think it worked but it defaults to -O2 now instead of -O0 so it should be good enough
20091229 01:07:13< shadowmaster> the build=debug config will use -O0
20091229 01:07:28< shadowmaster> build=release will use -O2, although I use extra_flags_release=... to set -O3 instead
20091229 01:08:33< Espreon> Eh, you crazy kids and your -O3.
20091229 01:09:17< shadowmaster> Espreon: what?
20091229 01:10:00< Espreon> Eh?
20091229 01:10:38< shadowmaster> I'm asking you what the hell is wrong with -O3, of course. Anyone can tell that.
20091229 01:11:10< Espreon> Uh, I've heard some bad things about -O3. But then again, that is in the context of compiling the whole system with it.
20091229 01:12:05< Espreon> shadowmaster: How quicker is Wesnoth when compiled with -O3 when compared with an -O2 build?
20091229 01:12:26< shadowmaster> it used to make a big difference on this laptop with 1.5.x.
20091229 01:12:36< Espreon> Interesting...
20091229 01:12:53< shadowmaster> some developers fixed that so it's probably as slow as -O2. If it isn't, then I really don't imagine how people still run -O2 builds...
20091229 01:13:13< Espreon> Where would you notice the difference? When the AI was considering things?
20091229 01:13:28< shadowmaster> no, gamemap and unit nanimations
20091229 01:13:59< shadowmaster> also, -O3 is mainly an issue with low-level software that you want to follow a fixed code path as designed by the programmers; usually when you need to interact with the system at a very low level
20091229 01:14:07< shadowmaster> *probably mainly an issue
20091229 01:14:09< joshua__> shadowmaster: by buying beefier hardware
20091229 01:14:21< shadowmaster> joshua__: um?
20091229 01:14:30< shadowmaster> ah, running -O2 builds..
20091229 01:15:18< shadowmaster> it's also possible for some code to not build at all given certain optimizations enabled with -O3 with gcc.
20091229 01:17:54< joshua__> been a long time since I've seen a case other than the "eliminate null check after dereference" case
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20091229 06:07:38< drose> error audio: Could not initialize audio: No available audio device
20091229 06:07:48< drose> What's wesnoth looking for?  everyhting else works....
20091229 06:07:57< Espreon> OK, what OS are you using?
20091229 06:09:04< drose> linux (gentoo!)
20091229 06:10:12< Espreon> You use ALSA, right?
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20091229 06:12:12< Espreon> drose: Also, do you use Pulseaudio?
20091229 06:15:02< drose> alsa yes, plusie no
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20091229 06:18:11< Espreon> drose: Does sound in other SDL games work all right?
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20091229 06:40:38< PeterFA> What would the restrictions be for creating a commercial campaign?
20091229 06:41:07< PeterFA> I mean a Battle for Wesnoth campaign that is sold with a commercial license?
20091229 06:43:56< Espreon> 1. You cannot promote it on the fora.
20091229 06:44:06< PeterFA> Forum?
20091229 06:44:27< Espreon> "Fora" = prætentious plural of "forum."
20091229 06:44:33< PeterFA> Oh.
20091229 06:44:34< PeterFA> Ok.
20091229 06:44:41< PeterFA> So, no spamming your website, got it.
20091229 06:45:02< Espreon> 2. If you are using GPL'd content, you must distribute the GPL'd content for free.
20091229 06:45:17< Espreon> Or at least I think.
20091229 06:45:22< PeterFA> Yeah, I'll package the BfW code with it.
20091229 06:45:32< PeterFA> With a copy of the correctly license.
20091229 06:45:39< Espreon> I am not sure of anything else.
20091229 06:45:44< Espreon> Try asking on #wesnoth-dev
20091229 06:45:50< PeterFA> Ok
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20091229 07:17:48< drose> oops sorry
20091229 07:18:02< Espreon> So, what is the situation?
20091229 07:18:10< drose> I don't know of any other sdl games, can you suggest one to test please?
20091229 07:20:21< Espreon> I believe that SuperTux uses SDL.
20091229 07:21:07< Espreon> Frozen Bubble (package name "frozen-bubble") also uses SDL.
20091229 07:24:16< Aethaeryn> I'm pretty sure SuperTux uses OpenGL
20091229 07:24:34< Aethaeryn> at least the newer version of it that's available on Fedora since 9 or 10 that has the World 2, forest world, half-way complete
20091229 07:28:18< Espreon> Aethaeryn: If you compile it with OpenGL... :P
20091229 07:28:23< Espreon> *OpenGL support
20091229 07:28:53< Espreon> This guy's a Gentoo user... so... yeahz...
20091229 07:29:33< Aethaeryn> Well, bah, the one that you *install* in Fedora has OpenGL support that makes it run buggy/laggy on my particular computer :P
20091229 07:29:51< Aethaeryn> Doesn't help that they basically put a perpetual-beta-for-several-years in the repository as the stable thing
20091229 07:30:06< Espreon> Heh...
20091229 07:30:17< Aethaeryn> I don't get compile-everything. I comiple yes, but only things I care about.
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20091229 07:31:58< Espreon> Eh?
20091229 07:35:09< Aethaeryn> Espreon: I don't understand distros that make you compile everything. Yes, compiling is a key part of Linux, but I only compile things I care about customizing and/or using unstable releases of, such as Wesnoth.
20091229 07:36:36< Espreon> OMG, really?
20091229 07:36:56< Espreon> You get to choose what gets put in, what optimizations, et cætera.
20091229 07:37:15< Espreon> Essentially, you are the master of everything on your install.
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20091229 07:38:00< Espreon> You can also experiment with different compilers... it is just amazing...
20091229 07:40:33< Aethaeryn> Pros of not having to compile everything: any kind of imaginable dependency is there for you to download if you want to compile (no going to random websites), no getting 2/3 of the way through a compile and finding out you're missing a dependency
20091229 07:40:46< Aethaeryn> and most applications don't matter that much :P
20091229 07:41:27< Espreon> Uh, on Gentoo, one doesn't have to mindlessly hunt for dependencies.
20091229 07:41:34< Espreon> Portage and ebuilds handle all of that.
20091229 07:41:58< Espreon> You just need an Internet connection and Portage knowledge.
20091229 07:43:04< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Did you seriously think that source-based distros were that primitive?
20091229 07:43:10< Aethaeryn> idk, I kind of like a simplified distro in that you don't *need* any knowledge whatsoever, but you can still choose to do things like compiling or whatever fancy thing you want if you desire
20091229 07:43:14< Aethaeryn> doesn't force you to do that.
20091229 07:44:08< Espreon> Meh, having knowledge of the system is good.
20091229 07:46:18< Aethaeryn> Having knowledge is good, forcing the use of that knowledge to install every application, meh.
20091229 07:46:21< Aethaeryn> I'm too lazy.
20091229 07:47:08< Espreon> Meh, you don't need the knowledge to install everything.
20091229 07:47:10< Aethaeryn> I *could* do Linux From Scratch without too much trouble probably, and learn a lot... but you know how much work it would be to get that useable?
20091229 07:47:17< Espreon> "emerge supertux"
20091229 07:47:45< Espreon> That will fetch dependencies, compile them, and then compile SuperTux.
20091229 07:48:02< Espreon> ... I technically don't have to have extensive knowledge of the stuff being compiled.
20091229 07:48:11< Espreon> 'Tis that wonderful.
20091229 07:50:15< Aethaeryn> uh, then the only difference between that and just installing it from a repo is the additional time of compiling.
20091229 07:50:23< Aethaeryn> and possibly making updating harder.
20091229 07:50:41< Espreon> So, I have no life and a video game console.
20091229 07:50:41< Aethaeryn> it's also a few letters shorter than "yum install supertux" 
20091229 07:50:43< Aethaeryn> that's a plus too
20091229 07:50:55< Espreon> Aliases...
20091229 07:51:03< Espreon> I could make it "e" for all I care.
20091229 07:51:27< Aethaeryn> Bah, I'm just hopelessly closed-minded.
20091229 07:51:31< Espreon> Besides, I often do something else while my lappy is compiling something.
20091229 07:51:37< Aethaeryn> The Red Hat CEO is probably less of a Fedora fanboy.
20091229 07:51:44< Espreon> Thou shalt open thy mind!
20091229 07:51:48< Aethaeryn> When you've used something since version 4 and it's now in version 12...
20091229 07:52:02 * Espreon casts a spell on Aethaeryn.
20091229 07:52:09< Aethaeryn> That's about 4 years of loyal useage.
20091229 07:52:32< Aethaeryn> yum install fedora-loyalty
20091229 07:53:27< Aethaeryn> If I needed to install another distro, it would probably be CentOS, which is based off of RHEL which is based off of Fedora, but the latest time they based it off of Fedora was 6, so I'll probably wait until CentOS 5 is out
20091229 07:53:28< Espreon> ¡Nazi comunista! LOL.
20091229 07:53:54< Aethaeryn> And that'd be a strictly-secondary useage distro mainly because I'd have to install new versions less often.
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20091229 08:31:25< drose> Portage and ebuilds handle all of that. <-- well, they try to.  Often gets it wrong.
20091229 08:32:28< drose> I like gentoo but it can be damn slow, I maintain 5 gentoo systems and sometimes it gets a bit .... well, old.
20091229 08:33:22< Espreon> drose: So, did yoy try SuperTux/Frozen Bubble?
20091229 08:34:07< Espreon> *you
20091229 08:35:43< drose> time emerge frozen-bubble...
20091229 08:36:00< drose> !!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request:
20091229 08:36:01< drose> - media-libs/sdl-mixer-1.2.11 (Change USE: +mikmod)
20091229 08:36:28< drose> lol
20091229 08:36:31< Espreon> drose: Oh, you're using *that* version of sdl-mixer.
20091229 08:36:42< Espreon> Try downgrading to sdl-mixer to 1.2.8.
20091229 08:36:57< Espreon> Wesnoth has problems with the more recent versions of the SDL libraries.
20091229 08:37:08< drose> yeah I have the mouse-click bug
20091229 08:37:18< Espreon> Downgrade, downgrade, downgrade.
20091229 08:37:23< drose> i was in here yetserday as a different username
20091229 08:37:40< drose> *shrugs, I'll try with thsi and dg if it doesn't work.
20091229 08:37:46< Espreon> I've had problems with the latest version of sdl-mixer.
20091229 08:40:08< Espreon> drose: Wait, what are you going to do before downgrading?
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20091229 10:30:41< Espreon> drose: Still around?
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20091229 15:14:57< kelnoky> what's a cool non-mainline campaign that wouldn't be "expert" difficulty?
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20091229 16:48:56< kelnoky> there are none? :D
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20091229 17:24:37< Soliton> ooze mini campaign
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20091229 22:30:47< Espreon> drose: Around?
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 30 00:00:26 2009