--- Log opened Sat Jan 09 00:00:15 2010
20100109 00:02:01< esr> I guess what you need to know about WOV is that it goves the Drakes a biology, a backstory, and some lore.
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20100109 00:03:50< esr> I'm trying to add significant depth and setail to canon Drakes in a similar way that I deepened the portrait of Dwarven society in tHoT.
20100109 00:03:58< esr> s/setail/detail/
20100109 00:05:18< thespaceinvader> yeah, that's fine
20100109 00:05:28< thespaceinvader> i have a portrait about half done for the burner, and started for the fighter
20100109 00:05:43< thespaceinvader> but i'm tempted to rework them from first principles, I wasn't terribly happy with either
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20100109 00:07:17< esr> OK.  It's not going to become anywhere near urgent until after 1.8 ships.  We're blocked on testing scenrio 2 because it neds feature additions to C++.
20100109 00:10:05< shadowmaster> what kind of features?
20100109 00:15:08< esr> WML for enhanced teleport gates.  Region-to-region rather than hex-to-hex.  At least, that's what I get from fendrin's description; I haven't seen it yet. 
20100109 00:16:11< esr> Our scenario 2 is supposed to have a split overground/underground map with special gates connecting them.
20100109 00:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 55 bugs, 244 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100109 00:31:29< shadowmaster> gods
20100109 00:31:41< shadowmaster> it was a bad idea to make a debug build
20100109 00:33:11< shadowmaster> 14 MB of RAM free. Now that's some cache pressure
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20100109 00:48:12 * crimson_penguin has 21MB free
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20100109 00:52:59< AI0867> 309 MB free, 311 MB of buffers, 635 MB of cache
20100109 00:53:06< AI0867> =P
20100109 00:54:14< crimson_penguin> 257MB free now
20100109 00:54:24< crimson_penguin> mine doesn't tell cache
20100109 00:54:29< AI0867> free -m
20100109 00:54:38< AI0867> at least here
20100109 00:54:39< shadowmaster> I can't tell the cache in the free output
20100109 00:54:43< crimson_penguin> not on OS X it seems
20100109 00:54:49< AI0867>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
20100109 00:54:49< AI0867> Mem:          2018       1709        309          0        311        635
20100109 00:54:49< AI0867> -/+ buffers/cache:        762       1255
20100109 00:54:49< AI0867> Swap:         1906          0       1905
20100109 00:54:59< shadowmaster> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d6187d610
20100109 00:55:03< crimson_penguin> I'm just using top
20100109 00:55:37< crimson_penguin> PhysMem: 618M wired, 2272M active, 931M inactive, 3821M used, 282M free.
20100109 00:55:38< shadowmaster> ah, far-right column
20100109 00:57:51< crimson_penguin> jeez, "i got a girl who's been reading up my messages on random websites since i use the same sas473 on forums lol this is apart of me i don't want her to see so i'm editing out my posts - if you guys want you can delete all my posts and delete my account :) don't have to if you don't want to but i'm editing out my posts"
20100109 00:57:51< AI0867> which reminds me, I have one 2 GB and one 512 MB DIMMs in there
20100109 00:58:07< AI0867> looks like one of them went out to lunch
20100109 00:58:11< crimson_penguin> what was that guy writing on the Wesnoth forum that he wouldn't want his girlfriend to see?
20100109 00:58:26< crimson_penguin> also, I guess I just permanently put him in the public logs.... oops
20100109 00:58:50< shadowmaster> AI0867: you don't have any on-board graphics controller eating the other 512 MB?
20100109 00:59:00< CIA-61> esr * r40610 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Make spellchecker ignore the UTF-8 horizontal dash.
20100109 00:59:03< AI0867> you should archive that on a wiki somewhere for good measure
20100109 00:59:17< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin: where does that come from?
20100109 00:59:19< AI0867> an intel i915
20100109 00:59:31< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: this guy's report, of his own post, on the forum
20100109 00:59:37< AI0867> but it's not even capable of eating that much
20100109 00:59:40< crimson_penguin> he edited all his posts to just "."
20100109 00:59:50< shadowmaster> ohhhh.
20100109 00:59:53< shadowmaster> moron.
20100109 01:00:18 * crimson_penguin has a discreet 256mb on his Geforce 8600M GT... which has so far destroyed the motherboard once
20100109 01:01:23< AI0867> the motherboard of this thing is somewhat broken, so I guess that could be the cause too
20100109 01:01:45< crimson_penguin> ahaha, so if GNU made a Go compiler, we'd have gcc, and ggc
20100109 01:01:59< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin: irclogs. has a robots.txt that most search engines should respect
20100109 01:02:03< AI0867> nah, still the gnu compiler collection =P
20100109 01:02:11< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: oh, true
20100109 01:02:20< shadowmaster> I have no idea about lobby's logs and I'm too lazy to log into w.o atm.
20100109 01:02:28< crimson_penguin> AI0867: oh, damn
20100109 01:02:48< shadowmaster> yes, I know I could run ls without creating a shell session.
20100109 01:03:01< AI0867> though the executable could have that name
20100109 01:03:24< shadowmaster> "You are not authorised to access this area." what the hell, forum? I am pretty sure I have access to all of your innards.
20100109 01:03:25< AI0867> or at least a symlink defaulting to that specific language
20100109 01:03:51< shadowmaster> and that's only because I tried to see the report after its author went ka-boom
20100109 01:06:29< crimson_penguin> psh
20100109 01:06:35 * crimson_penguin hates PhpBB a lot
20100109 01:07:03< MikeJB> crimson_penguin: what alternative do you prefer to phpBB?
20100109 01:07:10< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin: it's like Firefox to me
20100109 01:07:24< crimson_penguin> SMF, I guess
20100109 01:07:41< MikeJB> Never got the hang of one of those, but I understand it has its fans.
20100109 01:07:49< MikeJB> phpBB 2 was a nightmare
20100109 01:08:05< shadowmaster> I mean, phpBB is like wesnoth to me ;)
20100109 01:08:17< MikeJB> Took them a lag of several years to catch up with the feature sets of the other forum software, such as Invision Powerboard, with the 3.0 release.
20100109 01:08:22< shadowmaster> horribly bloated, evil means to an end
20100109 01:08:44< crimson_penguin> it's still full of bugs though
20100109 01:11:42< MikeJB> Besides custom software that's used on just about one site, I think the choices are phpBB, IPB, and SMF...
20100109 01:12:13< MikeJB> oh, vBulletin is another one I've seen a lot.
20100109 01:12:18< crimson_penguin> SMF is much less buggy
20100109 01:12:54< MikeJB> note that this makes phpBB the only one of the four major ones that's open source
20100109 01:13:05< MikeJB> I agree, phpBB can be frustrating, but there's not quite a true alternative.
20100109 01:14:01< MikeJB> SMF isn't quite proprietary, but it isn't quite free. :P
20100109 01:14:04< shadowmaster> true alternative that will let me import the whole mess, is free software in any sense of the word, and will run on my laptop
20100109 01:14:35< MikeJB> Anyway, phpBB being the only major FOSS forum software basically means that most FOSS projects use it, even if it's not the greatest.
20100109 01:15:04< MikeJB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_%28PHP%29 <- Looking here, most seem to actually be GPL, but I've never heard of them, either. ;)
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20100109 01:15:37< shadowmaster> the "no loss of functionality" and "will let me import the whole mess" is the most important part. I doubt that eixsts
20100109 01:16:04< MikeJB> Well, I bet someone could probably fork phpBB
20100109 01:16:26< shadowmaster> and fix its inherent mess? Unlikely
20100109 01:16:28< MikeJB> And rewrite the most annoying parts. It's not too bad on the user side, but I've administered different forum software, and phpBB (2.0) ain't that great.
20100109 01:16:32< shadowmaster> it's a design issue at this point.
20100109 01:16:51< MikeJB> In fact, if phpBB 3.0 isn't much better than 2.0, it's probably one of the worst administrator control panels out there... :(
20100109 01:17:00< shadowmaster> we could also stop maintaining wesnoth and hope for someone else to fork it
20100109 01:17:21< crimson_penguin> its code is a big mess, its administration is crappy, and I have problems with it as a user as well - seems like it's "just me", but it always logs me out when I don't want it to
20100109 01:17:50< shadowmaster> crimson_penguin: don't tell me that you are also using a satellite internet provider?!
20100109 01:17:54< MikeJB> idk, I haven't really had problems on user side, but Invision (even Invision Free, whatever they renamed it to) is easier to customize/administer
20100109 01:18:04< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: nope, land wireless
20100109 01:18:06< MikeJB> I guess the problem is that phpBB doesn't have a corporate sponsor?
20100109 01:18:20< shadowmaster> MikeJB: look at Windows.
20100109 01:18:25< shadowmaster> 'nuff said.
20100109 01:19:48< MikeJB> Well, imo, a lot of big projects simply are infeasible without a core of paid staff to code/lead full-time. Kind of a hybrid kind of thing.
20100109 01:20:17< MikeJB> Basically, a small team of coders codes full time and keeps things moving along, but a larger group of volunteers contributes, and the source is open.
20100109 01:21:03< MikeJB> Unfortunately, since most people need to work in order to eat and maintain a standard of living necessary, it's pretty hard to have full-time coders without paying them. :P
20100109 01:21:24< MikeJB> If a company *needed* phpBB and dependend on it, it would be better.
20100109 01:23:41< MikeJB> I'd see Wesnoth as an exception rather than the rule. Almost every other open source game doesn't change dramatically if you stop playing for a year and pick it up again. Wesnoth has a rapid pace of development.
20100109 01:23:55< shadowmaster> you forgot, paid, competent gods
20100109 01:24:28< shadowmaster> because any human can screw up during the planning phase and cause the birth of a huge code mess
20100109 01:24:50< MikeJB> Well, just look at how many open source projects have people working full time, and being paid, to work on them.
20100109 01:25:24< MikeJB> kernel, GNOME, KDE and qt, many distributions...
20100109 01:25:36< MikeJB> Free software isn't free.
20100109 01:26:21< MikeJB> Who knows? Maybe I should write a forum software hoping that Red Hat, Oracle, Novell, or IBM buys the startup for several million. ;)
20100109 01:26:41< shadowmaster> "Wesnoth has a rapid pace of development" is an overstatement
20100109 01:26:57< MikeJB> Well, comparatively.
20100109 01:27:04< MikeJB> Compare it to Freeciv or Supertux and it is at least 3-4x as much.
20100109 01:27:10< MikeJB> Open source lags behind in gaming, though.
20100109 01:27:13< shadowmaster> I have not seen any drastic, non-cosmetic change since 1.0
20100109 01:27:30< shadowmaster> talking as a user, mind you; I know and have implemented some of the changes for content developers
20100109 01:27:35< MikeJB> But there have been releases out there. Every 6-12 months. Consistantly. And the changes are at least noticeable.
20100109 01:27:47< MikeJB> I can't tell you how many projects move so frustratingly slow.
20100109 01:27:59< MikeJB> You get attached to a game, get to a To Be Continued, and have to wait two years for it to be continued.
20100109 01:28:40< MikeJB> Besides Wesnoth and maybe a handful of other games, the only ones with a complete feel are the little games like Mahjong.
20100109 01:28:43< shadowmaster> wesnoth doesn't develop a single campaign or set of campaign anymore, so that's why that's out of the matter.
20100109 01:29:12< shadowmaster> and any incoming content *after* 1.0 is expected to be complete
20100109 01:30:21< MikeJB> Btw, I don't know where Linux would be today without Red Hat. So many websites have a little footer that they're hosted by Red Hat (GNOME, for instance). And so many things have (c) Red Hat in the About section.
20100109 01:30:23< shadowmaster> since that content isn't developed by the core team, the developers can concentrate on extending the engine to suit authors' needs, although add-ons that take full-advantage of the engine are unseen in mainline
20100109 01:30:45< MikeJB> And since Red Hat primarily focuses on Enterprise Linux, as with the other core sponsors (Novell, for instance)... I guess games are a low priority.
20100109 01:31:06< MikeJB> Perhaps it'll change with Ubuntu. (And no, I'm not an Ubuntu user, but I know they focus more on desktop Linux.)
20100109 01:31:34< shadowmaster> MikeJB: have you ever heard of Sam Lantinga, btw?
20100109 01:32:11< MikeJB> Libraries are an exception.
20100109 01:32:17< MikeJB> Many games use OpenGL.
20100109 01:32:21< MikeJB> Still, they're not the end products :P
20100109 01:32:28< shadowmaster> libraries are the building blocks of the end products
20100109 01:32:42< MikeJB> Yes, but the end products are often commercial.
20100109 01:32:53< shadowmaster> and Wesnoth is brought to you by the Wesnoth developers, not without the help of SDL's existence
20100109 01:32:58< MikeJB> My point is that you won't find a corporation sponsoring SuperTux or Frozen Bubble.
20100109 01:33:19< MikeJB> But you will find them sponsoring Network Manager or Open Office.org
20100109 01:33:23< shadowmaster> because they are there only for the money
20100109 01:33:38< shadowmaster> OpenOffice.org is something they can sell in some way or another to end-users
20100109 01:33:43< MikeJB> Right. My point is that paid, full-time, working-for-corporations developers work on things that help the enterprise.
20100109 01:33:58< MikeJB> When there's little overlap between enterprise and desktop (finished-product games), Linux is a bit lacking.
20100109 01:33:59< shadowmaster> SuperTux is something that (originally) could have been written by anybody.
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20100109 01:34:38< shadowmaster> I already lost track of why this is relevant to the board software comparison :/
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20100109 01:35:09 * shadowmaster unwinds the stack
20100109 01:35:38< MikeJB> My point is that because phpBB isn't sponsored by Red Hat, Novell, IBM, Oracle (which mainly just leaches), Sun (being bought by Oracle, sadly), etc...
20100109 01:35:41< MikeJB> It sucks.
20100109 01:35:47< shadowmaster> in summary, good luck convincing me or any of the system admins to switch to a different software
20100109 01:35:53< MikeJB> Well, not quite. Rather, that, if it had a corporate sponsor, it'd be better.
20100109 01:36:03< MikeJB> Nah, I'd probably use phpBB, too.
20100109 01:36:08< shadowmaster> we'll most likely kidnap you and force you to work for us maintaining the forums if you did
20100109 01:36:14< shadowmaster> *we'd
20100109 01:36:27< MikeJB> Not one of the GPL'd forums on the Wikipedia list I was familiar with, of the four I've actually used (and I maintained a few Invision-style)
20100109 01:36:57< MikeJB> Apparently, no big Linux company thinks php forum software is useful enough for them. :(
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20100109 01:37:41< shadowmaster> there are host providers that sell phpBB-based services though
20100109 01:38:02< MikeJB> Apparently they don't have deep enough pockets, or think it's good enough
20100109 01:38:15< shadowmaster> or they don't work with *programmers*
20100109 01:38:33< shadowmaster> programmers capable in the specific areas in which phpBB depends
20100109 01:40:48< shadowmaster> alternatively, nobody has suggested to them that working with the phpBB devs would be a good idea, or you and me are unaware that some phpBB devs work with hosting sites
20100109 01:41:44< MikeJB> Perhaps the latter, but if they do it they don't do it well enough.
20100109 01:41:51< MikeJB> In which case, the project's organization is probably not that good.
20100109 01:42:30< MikeJB> Maybe I should write forum software...
20100109 01:42:47< shadowmaster> yeah, we know only one side of the story ;(
20100109 01:42:54 * MikeJB adds it to the bottom of the list of ideas-to-do-if-he-had-more-talent.
20100109 01:43:47< shadowmaster> we aren't phpBB devs after all.
20100109 01:44:37< shadowmaster> your list will get very eep very soon. that's just worthless
20100109 01:44:46< shadowmaster> *deep
20100109 01:48:34< MikeJB> The problem with trying to get Linux on the desktop, btw, is that the easier target to overtake would probably be Mac OS X... but Apple has been doing really well in the last 3 years.
20100109 01:51:53< shadowmaster> COOL SHINY iTechnology, WE MUST BUY
20100109 01:52:13< shadowmaster> the fact that it's effectively cool and shiny doesn't help ;)
20100109 01:52:34< shadowmaster> e.g. good luck beating that
20100109 01:53:43< shadowmaster> anyway, Windows and Linux are still the platforms of choice when you cannot run MacOS X (moneeeey)
20100109 01:54:55< shadowmaster> Windows because there are pretty good cheap OEM computers that ship with it. And Linux is- okay, I'll let you write a monologue about Linux for the 22th time ;(
20100109 01:55:41< shadowmaster>  rewrite data/core/music/sad.ogg (90%) <- ohhh, git diff'ing magic. Too bad that probably doesn't make it through the SVN library
20100109 01:56:48< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r40611 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/music/sad.ogg): New version of sad.ogg (Sad music) by Tyler Johnson
20100109 01:58:40< MikeJB> shadowmaster: It's kind of hard to compete with what amounts to a cult, yes.
20100109 01:59:10< MikeJB> But then again, you could argue that some Linux fans take it to the level of cult beyond the Cult of Apple. Apple's like Scientology, they only want your money. Linux wants more. >:D
20100109 01:59:56< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r40612 /trunk/players_changelog: r40611 missed the players_changelog entry deliberately, but I changed my mind
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20100109 04:09:45< CIA-61> ai0867 * r40613 /trunk/ (changelog src/unit.cpp): [unit] upkeep now has 'free' as a synonym for 'loyal', as it was widely used this way. (and worked, as lexical_cast_default<int>("free") equals 0)
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20100109 05:53:19< PK> any of you fine gentlemen interested in zombie shooting?
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20100109 06:27:20-!- MikeJB [n=Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit ["'night"]
20100109 06:34:00< AI0867> I just tried to test bug #14240, but I can't confirm that random start time actually works
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20100109 07:08:29< mordante> servus
20100109 07:11:41< mordante> esr, regarding the bay or pearls problems is this one also already fixed? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15078
20100109 07:13:39< mordante> crimson_pinguin, fendrin the background of the lobby is no longer scaled in trunk
20100109 07:14:22< mordante> crimson_pinguin, ilor did some speed up changes and these result in minor visual glitches which I want to address this weekend
20100109 07:16:17< mordante> fendrin we didn't want to do a huge gui patch but the new lobby was too slow and that was discovered too late :-(
20100109 07:17:37< mordante> fendrin, what error message do you miss? IMO the WML is not hacky at all :-|
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20100109 07:28:46< mordante> AI0867, regarding r40613 I'm not sure adding more synonyms is a good idea
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20100109 08:39:34< CIA-61> esr * r40614 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/04_The_Bay_of_Pearls.cfg: 
20100109 08:39:34< CIA-61> Belt-and-suspenders mod for bug #15078. Konrad talks to himself at end
20100109 08:39:34< CIA-61> of bay of pearls. This was already testing correctly in trunk, but
20100109 08:39:34< CIA-61> adding side=1 seems like a good idea anyway.
20100109 08:41:09< esr> mordante: The log message on my last commit should answer your question.
20100109 08:42:07< mordante> esr, ok thanks
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20100109 10:01:36< mordante> ilor I still get a lot of crashes due to increasing a singular iterator in the lobby
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20100109 10:28:29< mordante> ilor, the player list keeps selecting the first player upon refreshing
20100109 10:28:48< boucman> hadn't that bug been fixed ?
20100109 10:29:28< mordante> for the games yes, for the players apparently not
20100109 10:29:37< boucman> k
20100109 10:29:51< mordante> I'm testing the lobby at the moment
20100109 10:30:16< mordante> sending a PM to myself segfaults, don't have a backtrace since my debug build fails with singular iterators
20100109 10:30:25< mordante> ilor, ^
20100109 10:41:23< ilor> mordante: does it always happen?
20100109 10:41:59< mordante> ilor, three out of three times thusfar
20100109 10:43:13< ilor> mordante:can't get it to crash now, but I do know something's fishy around there
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20100109 11:13:36< Ivanovic> moin
20100109 11:16:24< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20100109 11:17:03< mordante> Ivanovic, can you try to reapply r40584 locally and compile again, I don't see why you got linker errors before :-/
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20100109 12:14:41< CIA-61> silene * r40615 /trunk/src/unit.hpp: Removed useless function unit::get_hit_sound.
20100109 12:14:46< CIA-61> silene * r40616 /trunk/src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Freed function unit::unknown_unit_type_error.
20100109 12:14:49< CIA-61> silene * r40617 /trunk/src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Freed functions unit::generate_gender.
20100109 12:14:51< CIA-61> silene * r40618 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Initialized unit fields earlier.
20100109 12:14:55< CIA-61> silene * r40619 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Fixed incorrect translation of custom unit descriptions.
20100109 12:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 53 bugs, 244 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100109 13:03:53< mordante> Ivanovic, did you manage to test r40584?
20100109 13:04:10< Ivanovic> sorry, not really awake yet and i haven't tested yet
20100109 13:04:14< mordante> ok
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20100109 13:05:36< Ivanovic> so you see nothing suspicous in the verbose log?
20100109 13:08:31< Ivanovic> mordante: that is: is the ldd line identical for you?
20100109 13:08:46< Ivanovic> or might the difference already lie in a different cmake version?
20100109 13:08:57< Ivanovic> since eg loonycyborg was able to build
20100109 13:09:17< mordante> might be a difference in cmake version, not recompiling setting.o 
20100109 13:09:28< Ivanovic> uhm, i removed all of the build dir
20100109 13:09:34< Ivanovic> so it was a fresh build from svn
20100109 13:09:54< mordante> that's really odd :-/
20100109 13:10:04< mordante> with or without ccache?
20100109 13:10:28< Ivanovic> with
20100109 13:10:36< Ivanovic> but i assume that no ccache makes no difference
20100109 13:10:54< mordante> might be the cause, but would be odd that two people have the same problem...
20100109 13:11:01< Ivanovic> exactly
20100109 13:11:20< Ivanovic> could you compare the linker line you get with your change with the one i sent you?
20100109 13:11:31< mordante> yes
20100109 13:13:31< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Your error looks like the function was defined in a header. Maybe it's a compiler bug that caused gcc to erroneously define it or something?
20100109 13:13:47< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: which gcc are you using?
20100109 13:14:07< Ivanovic> i am using 4.4.2
20100109 13:14:12< loonycyborg> I tried 4.3.2, 4.3.4, 4.4.2
20100109 13:14:32< Ivanovic> x86 or amd64?
20100109 13:14:38< loonycyborg> 32-bit
20100109 13:14:45< Ivanovic> 64bit over here
20100109 13:15:13< mordante> Ivanovic, and if you reapply it it still fails?
20100109 13:22:56< mordante> Ivanovic, nevermind think I found the cause, included a .cpp instead of .hpp
20100109 13:23:04< mordante> no idea why it worked for me however
20100109 13:23:07< Ivanovic> argh, okay, that explains things
20100109 13:23:49< mordante> not why it worked for me :-(
20100109 13:25:57< CIA-61> mordante * r40620 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): 
20100109 13:25:57< CIA-61> Move thorizontal_scrollbar_definition to a new file.
20100109 13:25:57< CIA-61> Reapplies r40584, but with the includes fixed. This caused linking errors on
20100109 13:25:57< CIA-61> some systems.
20100109 13:26:01< Ivanovic> diffferent gcc handling things differently?
20100109 13:27:15< mordante> maybe
20100109 13:43:01< Ivanovic> mordante: r40620 builds nicely
20100109 14:02:25< mordante> nice
20100109 14:14:00< fendrin> mordante: Hacky was the wrong word. It's just a little more complicated than scenario WML. If something goes wrong with the gui WML parsing the output was often useless to me. I have extendet it in 2 locations what improved the usability a bit. That will be in my patch we can lock at after 1.8.
20100109 14:21:45< mordante> fendrin, in what way is the output useless ?
20100109 14:24:19< fendrin> mordante: It lacked line number and context. There was just an error like "gui parsing failed somewhere". I had to hunt that down with the c++ debugger.
20100109 14:27:00< mordante> fendrin, that's because the engine doesn't know that at that point, a lot of parts in the normal configs have the same problem
20100109 14:27:20< mordante> most of those issues for the gui could be fixed with schemes...
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20100109 14:33:54< esr> Soliton: ping?
20100109 14:34:56< Soliton> i can ping, yes.
20100109 14:35:00< fendrin> mordante: That reminds me that I should post a report about my scheme investigations to the mailinglist after 1.8.
20100109 14:38:01< esr> Soliton: You reportes "Works For Me" for bug #15060.  What OS were you testing under?
20100109 14:38:56< Soliton> esr: debian testing.
20100109 14:39:30< esr> Hm.
20100109 14:40:34< esr> I'd like to can that one, but I think we need confirmation that SVN head doesn't reproduce it under Windows.
20100109 14:40:45< mordante> fendrin, would be nice to have it in, at least for the places where they can easily be added, terrain definition, unit definition, race definitions, gui2 etc
20100109 14:43:07< fendrin> mordante: I have investigated three different ways how to integrate the frogatto code in wesnoth. Every one has it's advantages and disadvantages. I have a very limited prototype for one of them. The project must clearly go back to planning phase based on what I have learned. I have no idea if I want to do it for 1.9.
20100109 14:43:39< mordante> I'll look forward to your email to the ml
20100109 14:44:49< esr> zookeeper: Have you tested for bug #15060. on SVN head recently?   If it's not reproducing under Windows I think we can mark it Fixed.
20100109 14:45:33< esr> fendrin: Are you thinking about embedding Scheme in BfW as an extension language?
20100109 14:46:38< fendrin> esr: The Frogatto schema cfg defines wml semantics in a config file that is written in wml itself.
20100109 14:47:20< esr> Ah.
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20100109 14:51:25< zookeeper> esr, never tried
20100109 14:51:55< esr> zookeeper: Try it, please? I'd like to dispatch that bug.
20100109 14:52:40< Soliton> there is some lua text_input in the test scenario.
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20100109 15:26:12< CIA-61> mordante * r40621 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
20100109 15:26:12< CIA-61> Allow stacked windows to be drawn 'properly'.
20100109 15:26:12< CIA-61> When the MP lobby shows the player dialog the dialog no longer gets
20100109 15:26:12< CIA-61> 'overwritten' by the lobby update. This code needs to be rewritten
20100109 15:26:12< CIA-61> properly during a development phase.
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20100109 15:26:45< mordante> ilor_, I get these warnings from cppcheck http://paste.debian.net/56111/ the insert is at line 487
20100109 15:27:24< ilor_> ow. yes.
20100109 15:27:28< mordante> ilor_, the redrawing problem should be fixed, I prefer to look at the rest after the iterator problem is fix (might be the one cppcheck found)
20100109 15:27:28< ilor_> bad mistake
20100109 15:28:12< mordante> mistakes happen
20100109 15:28:30< mordante> luckily some people make tools to find them :-)
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20100109 15:32:18< CIA-61> mordante * r40622 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Move timage_definition to a new file.
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20100109 15:36:03< mordante> hi stikonas I found the linker problem, and committed a fixed version
20100109 15:39:48< zookeeper> can someone bad zigg from posting in art contrib? -.-
20100109 15:39:52< zookeeper> s/bad/ban
20100109 15:42:30< CIA-61> mordante * r40623 /trunk/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: Some minor formatting fixes.
20100109 15:43:58< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: i was just going to come in and ask whether anyone else felt that was appropriate
20100109 15:44:06< thespaceinvader> and then do it, if they did
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20100109 15:45:31< CIA-61> mordante * r40624 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Move tlabel_definition to a new file.
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20100109 17:03:33< Espreon> mordante: I added the desired information to the bug report.
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20100109 17:09:37< mordante> Espreon, still not crashing for me :-(
20100109 17:09:54< mordante> Espreon, do you have access to a Linux machine?
20100109 17:10:15< Espreon> mordante: Maybe... let us see if the troll lets me use it. ;)
20100109 17:10:24< Espreon> (The troll = my father)
20100109 17:10:44 * mordante hopes for Espreon his father doesn't read the irc logs ;-)
20100109 17:11:14< Espreon> He doesn't know my online identity... so... yeah...
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20100109 17:11:47< mordante> :-)
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20100109 17:11:54< Espreon> Nope... :(
20100109 17:12:48< mordante> can you try whether bug can also be reproduced with [__scenario_objectives_1] ?
20100109 17:12:55< Espreon> Sure.
20100109 17:13:40< Espreon> Nothing wrong with that.
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20100109 17:13:58< mordante> and all other fields are fine as well?
20100109 17:14:27< Espreon> What exactly do you mean?
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20100109 17:15:22< mordante> that you can only get the assertion failure with the 'glyph_text' variable
20100109 17:15:51< Espreon> Lemme check...
20100109 17:16:45< Espreon> Yup, only that variable causes it to asplode.
20100109 17:18:17< mordante> maybe AI0867 or loonycyborg can test whether it's a Windows only bug
20100109 17:19:07< loonycyborg> Which bug?
20100109 17:19:18< mordante> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15071
20100109 17:20:26< CIA-61> mordante * r40625 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (settings.cpp settings.hpp): Remove a typedef.
20100109 17:24:57< Espreon> I shall be back soon...
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20100109 18:00:44< loonycyborg> Espreon: I can't reproduce the bug with cross-compiled binary under wine.
20100109 18:01:29< Espreon> Did you set the resolution to 1024x768?
20100109 18:02:07< loonycyborg> No. Actually it was 800x600
20100109 18:03:55< loonycyborg> I couldn't fit a 1024x768 wine window on my screen since it already has height of 768.
20100109 18:04:25< loonycyborg> Taskbar would obscure its bottom :P
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20100109 18:07:27< Espreon> Never mind, the latest build does not have the error.
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20100109 18:07:41< Espreon> (The bug is no longer reproducible)
20100109 18:08:15< loonycyborg> Must have been fixed..
20100109 18:08:32< Espreon> Grand. :)
20100109 18:12:41< mordante> let's hope it doesn't return in the next commit ;-)
20100109 18:13:11< Espreon> Yeahz...
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20100109 18:32:49< AI0867> mordante: a wmllint rule is the alternative, but shadowmaster suggested this as upkeep=free is used even in mainline and is as intuitive as upkeep=loyal if not more so
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20100109 18:34:40< CIA-61> ilor * r40626 /trunk/src/lobby_data.cpp: fix iterator invalidation issue
20100109 18:35:25< ilor_> mordante: ^ should be enough
20100109 18:39:44< mordante> AI0867, I prefer to have one value and not two, don't mind to much which one will be used
20100109 18:40:15< mordante> thanks ilor_, will test whether it also solves the singular iterator problems
20100109 18:45:33< silene> AI0867: btw, with your commit "free" is not a synonym for "loyal", what is on purpose?
20100109 18:53:47< mordante> ilor_, it didn't fix the singular iterator issue I have http://paste.debian.net/56140/
20100109 18:56:00< ilor_> graah. I should realky to change it to a list
20100109 18:56:12< CIA-61> mordante * r40627 /trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): Move tlistbox_definition to a new file.
20100109 18:57:21< mordante> ilor_, what's stopping you? the listbox?
20100109 18:58:02< ilor_> mordante: no, I thought I was deleting items from the middle of the vector there... but I'm not
20100109 18:58:14< ilor_> not siure what's causing the singular iterator
20100109 19:00:27< ilor_> okay, I think I got ir
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20100109 19:02:36< mordante> ok
20100109 19:04:19< CIA-61> ilor * r40628 /trunk/src/lobby_data.cpp: fix iterator invalidation issue (part2)
20100109 19:04:48 * mordante tries again
20100109 19:06:18< ilor_> mordante: argh wait
20100109 19:06:35 * mordante aborts compilation
20100109 19:07:39< CIA-61> ilor * r40629 /trunk/src/lobby_data.cpp: fix iterator invalidation issue (part3 and hopefull the last)
20100109 19:07:49< ilor_> mordante: sorry about that, forgot to save the bloody file in the editor
20100109 19:08:06< mordante> no problem
20100109 19:10:19< Ivanovic> so what is the current status of the lobby?
20100109 19:12:04< mordante> unknown :-P
20100109 19:12:18< ilor_> Ivanovic: faster but not as much as we'd all like, come possible bugs hiding, somewhat ugly in some areas
20100109 19:12:22< ilor_> *some
20100109 19:12:44< mordante> ilor_, just committed a fix if that fixes the iterator problem I can see whether the odd placement of the listbox content can be reproduced
20100109 19:15:47< CIA-61> mcshark * r40630 /trunk/projectfiles/ (CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp CodeBlocks-SCons/wesnoth.cbp): Update according to recent file changes
20100109 19:16:37< mordante> ilor_, so far so good no singular iterator issues anymore, most of the time I got them fast so I think it's really fixed
20100109 19:17:17< ilor_> mordante: I actually understand why all of them happened so I'm confident that my commits fixed things, any new ones would be, well, new :)
20100109 19:19:08< mordante> ok  
20100109 19:31:26< Ivanovic> ilor_: some things that could/should be improved:
20100109 19:31:45< Ivanovic> 1) selecting a game and seeing in the gui that it is selected takes about 1s, the delay should probably be reduced
20100109 19:32:16< Ivanovic> 2) when selecting a game that is in the middle of the list, the list is "reprositioned" somehow so that the game is shown at the buttom of the area with games
20100109 19:33:55< Ivanovic> to reproduce: scroll down in the game list when eg connected to the 1.6 server
20100109 19:34:04< Ivanovic> somewhere in the middle select a game
20100109 19:34:26< Ivanovic> afterwards select a game that is already shown (as in "no scrolling required")
20100109 19:34:45< ilor_> Ivanovic: I think I mentioned that one to mordante
20100109 19:34:46< Ivanovic> see how the gamelist jumps so that the now selected game is the last in the games shown area
20100109 19:34:51< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20100109 19:35:31< mordante> Ivanovic, the scrolling often happens during a refresh, which automatically scrolls to the selected item
20100109 19:35:52< ilor_> mordante: there is no scrolling if the selected item did not change
20100109 19:35:55< mordante> ilor_, the player list always selects the first item
20100109 19:36:16< ilor_> mordante: the issue is about the gamelist
20100109 19:37:43< mordante> ilor_, I know, I just mention another issue which is still there ;-)
20100109 19:39:02< Ivanovic> just a second, will upload a screenshot
20100109 19:39:10< Ivanovic> (sadly the mouse cursor is not included...
20100109 19:41:55< mordante> then enable colour cursors
20100109 19:41:58< Ivanovic> this is the scenario right before clicking: http://files.wesnoth.org/wip_images/wesnoth_selection-prob-before.jpeg
20100109 19:42:28< Ivanovic> when clicking the game list jumps so that the selected game is at the buttom of the games in the list that are shown: http://files.wesnoth.org/wip_images/wesnoth_selection-prob-after.jpeg
20100109 19:42:55< Ivanovic> even though theoretically no jumping around would be required since the selected part is just in the area that already was displayed
20100109 19:43:46< mordante> Ivanovic, use the up arrow...
20100109 19:43:59< Ivanovic> ???
20100109 19:44:03< Ivanovic> why should i?
20100109 19:44:16< mordante> since that has the same problem ;-)
20100109 19:44:39< mordante> I'll look into it 
20100109 19:44:39< Ivanovic> ah, lovely
20100109 19:44:43< Ivanovic> good
20100109 19:45:00< mordante> hey it has some logic ;-)
20100109 19:45:16< Ivanovic> and yeah, the jumping to the selected game at every refresh is annoying
20100109 19:45:27< Ivanovic> the jumping in general, no matter where to is annoying
20100109 19:45:50< ilor_> I too prefer walking
20100109 19:46:05< mordante> I'll see whether it can now be removed, it was added since the entire list was destroyed and rebuild
20100109 19:46:32< Ivanovic> ilor_: since you added the "jump to selected game after refresh" as workaround for "list is destroyed, so we always are at the top", is it possible to deactivate it now that add/remove is used?
20100109 19:46:45< ilor_> Ivanovic: it *is* deactivated
20100109 19:46:58< Ivanovic> oh
20100109 19:47:10 * Ivanovic smells a bug
20100109 19:47:11< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100109 19:48:18 * mordante thinks this time it's a feature, turned into an unwanted feature ;-)
20100109 19:49:50< GNUtoo> hi, wesnoth is slow on the freerunner....it uses 85M of ram....with -DLOW_MEM or something like this...if I disable cache will it improve things?
20100109 19:49:58< GNUtoo> the freerunner has 128M of ram
20100109 19:50:13< AI0867> 18:45 < silene> AI0867: btw, with your commit "free" is not a synonym for "loyal", what is on purpose? <-- not sure what you're saying here
20100109 19:50:31< GNUtoo> it seemed faster before...(wesnoth 1.4)
20100109 19:52:31< ilor_> mordante: the code I added to reselect a game after the gamelist is rebuilt now checks if it needs to call select_row, and actually rarely does 
20100109 19:52:58< ilor_> mordante: I added a debug statement locally around there and it's not triggered while the selection jumps around ;)
20100109 19:54:17< mordante> ilor_, I'm not sure whether I also added some helper code that causes it, I'll have a look
20100109 19:54:22< boucman> GNUtoo: usually disabling the cache slows down wesnoth
20100109 19:54:31< GNUtoo> ok
20100109 19:54:52< GNUtoo> so there is nothing to do?
20100109 19:54:56< GNUtoo> apart changing phone
20100109 19:55:05< mordante> but you can try whether disabling the cache helps
20100109 19:55:11< GNUtoo> ok
20100109 19:55:12< GNUtoo> thanks
20100109 19:55:14< boucman> nothing easy
20100109 19:55:27< mordante> true
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20100109 20:11:24< Espreon> Oh, happy happy joy joy, Dark Forecast crashes on turn four.
20100109 20:11:39< Espreon> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m24cb2fec
20100109 20:14:23< mordante> can somebody test copy/paste in the text input on windows?
20100109 20:14:27< Espreon> Two, three, four... I really do not remember.
20100109 20:14:42< mordante> eg in the test scenario
20100109 20:14:55< mordante> Espreon, aren't you a developer?
20100109 20:15:17< shadowmaster> not a coder
20100109 20:15:26< mordante> more at gna
20100109 20:15:27< Espreon> Indeed.
20100109 20:15:37< ilor_> mordante: paste works with C-v, copy (C-c) doesn't
20100109 20:15:46< ilor_> mordante: in lobby chat input textbox
20100109 20:15:54< mordante> ilor_, ok thanks
20100109 20:16:09< Espreon> I am just the guy who co-maintains UtBS, makes localized images, and maintains the map.
20100109 20:16:19< ilor_> mordante: C-c seems to clobber the clipboard
20100109 20:16:23< shadowmaster> Espreon: it looks like DF has code that can unstore a unit from an empty container
20100109 20:16:43< ilor_> mordante: ie paste stops pasting anything after a C-c
20100109 20:16:46< shadowmaster> naturally, the empty container has no type field. Guess what that means. :/
20100109 20:17:00< shadowmaster> no, I haven't looked a DF directly, it's just a theory
20100109 20:18:31< Espreon> I see...
20100109 20:19:37< mordante> ilor_, thanks that confirms bug 15081
20100109 20:20:37< ilor_> mordante: note that editor's export selection to clipboard does work
20100109 20:21:35< mordante> ilor_, ok interesting
20100109 20:22:21< mordante> ilor_, Ivanovic found the scroll "feature" it's due to the horizontal scrollbar, if you don't need that the listbox works normally
20100109 20:28:06< silene> AI0867: i mean that the engine relies on the method unit::loyal to return true for "loyal" units; is it on purpose that you made it return false for "free" units
20100109 20:33:06< mordante> ilor_, can you test this patch, maybe the paste part needs the same changes http://paste.debian.net/56148/
20100109 20:34:12< ilor_> mordante: will do
20100109 20:34:53< ilor_> mordante: src\clipboard.cpp:410: error: 'CF_UNICODE' was not declared in this scope
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20100109 20:36:06< mordante> ilor_, please try with CF_UNICODETEXT
20100109 20:36:15< ilor_> mordante: yeah found that, building
20100109 20:40:05< AI0867> silene: maybe unit::loyal() should be modified to return unit::upkeep() == 0
20100109 20:40:16< AI0867> as you can set cfg["upkeep"] to "0" too
20100109 20:45:53< ilor_> mordante: no change
20100109 20:46:52< ilor_> mordante: actually, no, that breaks copying coords to clipboard, jibberish Chinese unicode gets there
20100109 20:50:15< mordante> hmm odd, guess somebody needs to look closer into it I could unless somebody has more experience with the windows clipboard
20100109 20:50:32< mordante> IMO this should be an 1.8 blocker
20100109 20:55:45< Ivanovic> sounds like 1.8 will be delayed till, hmm, easter...
20100109 20:55:46< Ivanovic> ;)
20100109 20:56:44< shadowmaster> :<
20100109 20:56:49< mordante> nah will be released around Christmas... now we only need to pick the year ;-)
20100109 20:57:25< mordante> but you think it's no blocker Ivanovic ?
20100109 21:03:31< loonycyborg> mordante: I can try to look into it. I don't know much about windows clipboard, but I enjoy digging in documentation :P
20100109 21:05:01< Ivanovic> mordante: i am not sure
20100109 21:05:02< mordante> ok thanks
20100109 21:05:27< Ivanovic> mordante: that is: in the time it will probably take to get the lobby well polished lots of other things can be fixed, too
20100109 21:05:51< shadowmaster> poor awaiting features
20100109 21:06:32< Ivanovic> this way we are probably perfect again for SoC
20100109 21:06:43< Ivanovic> since we are in the main "add features now" time when SoC starts...
20100109 21:08:00< mordante> Ivanovic, true but not being able to copy and paste is a bit lame
20100109 21:08:16< mordante> and yes I want to get 1.8 done asap
20100109 21:08:44< shadowmaster> think of the features :(
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20100109 21:12:47< loonycyborg> mordante: should copy/paste *from* wesnoth's widgets work?
20100109 21:13:25< mordante> loonycyborg, yes from the input text boxes
20100109 21:13:33< loonycyborg> I can paste into connect to addon server dialog with middle button but not from it.
20100109 21:14:27< mordante> on Windows or Linux?
20100109 21:14:30< Espreon> Hello kitty_.
20100109 21:14:35< kitty_> hi
20100109 21:14:39< mordante> that should only work on Linux
20100109 21:14:42< mordante> hi kitty_ 
20100109 21:14:44< loonycyborg> I.e. selected text in it isn't copied to clipboard.
20100109 21:14:47< loonycyborg> Linux.
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20100109 21:19:17< mordante> loonycyborg, it is for me, note there's a difference between selecting which can be inserted with the middle mouse and ctrl-c ctrl-v
20100109 21:19:37< mordante> those end up at different clipboards
20100109 21:19:59< ilor_> mordante: ow thats ugly
20100109 21:20:13< mordante> ilor_, that's normal in Linux ;-)
20100109 21:20:33< mordante> the selection clipboard doesn't work under Windows
20100109 21:24:02< loonycyborg> mordante: Ctrl-c method behaves the same.
20100109 21:24:28< mordante> loonycyborg, ?
20100109 21:24:57< loonycyborg> Ctrl-c'd text doesn't appear other apps to.
20100109 21:25:18< loonycyborg> But they both seem to work when copy/pasting from wesnoth to wesnoth :/
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20100109 21:27:26< mordante> loonycyborg, odd both work for me
20100109 21:28:33< loonycyborg> I can copy paste into the same text input widget, but copied text doesn't appear in klipper and other apps such as konsole.
20100109 21:30:05< mordante> no idea whether KDE uses its own clipboards or the X11 clipboards
20100109 21:31:36< loonycyborg> Weird. It works when pasting into gvim :/
20100109 21:31:38< mordante> and if you try to copy from Wesnoth to firefox?
20100109 21:31:54< loonycyborg> Firefox works too :P
20100109 21:32:12< mordante> guessed that, but the messages crossed ;-)
20100109 21:33:01< mordante> guess KDE doesn't play nicely along with X11 ;-)
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20100109 21:41:46< silene> AI0867: no, zombies are not loyal
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20100109 22:02:25< CIA-61> mordante * r40631 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/timer.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:29< CIA-61> mordante * r40632 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/helper.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:31< CIA-61> mordante * r40633 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:43< CIA-61> mordante * r40634 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/transient_message.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:43< CIA-61> mordante * r40635 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/container.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:43< CIA-61> mordante * r40636 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/generator.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:47< CIA-61> mordante * r40637 /trunk/src/gui/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20100109 22:02:47< CIA-61> Rename set_col_grow_factor.
20100109 22:02:47< CIA-61> Rather don't abbreviate in the function name, still some abbreviations
20100109 22:02:48< CIA-61> left in internal variables. (Fixes a doxygen warning.)
20100109 22:02:52< CIA-61> mordante * r40638 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/grid_private.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:55< CIA-61> mordante * r40639 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/scrollbar_container_private.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:02:59< CIA-61> mordante * r40640 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (control.cpp widget.hpp): 
20100109 22:02:59< CIA-61> Make twidget::request_reduce_width pure virtual.
20100109 22:03:01< CIA-61> Fixes a doxygen warning and a todo. Simular functions will be done later
20100109 22:03:05< CIA-61> since they're not trivial.
20100109 22:03:07< CIA-61> mordante * r40641 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/window.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:03:09< CIA-61> mordante * r40642 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/ (dispatcher.cpp dispatcher.hpp): Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:03:14< CIA-61> mordante * r40643 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/distributor.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:03:16< CIA-61> mordante * r40644 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/handler.cpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100109 22:03:20< CIA-61> mordante * r40645 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog.
20100109 22:03:31< CIA-61> mordante * r40646 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Move tmenubar_definition to a new file.
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20100109 22:20:00< CIA-61> mordante * r40647 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Move tminimap_definition to a new file.
20100109 22:20:21< mordante> I'm off night
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20100109 23:15:58< CIA-61> ivanovic * r40648 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-dm/cs.po): updated Czech translation
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--- Log closed Sun Jan 10 00:00:24 2010