--- Log opened Fri Jan 15 00:00:05 2010
--- Day changed Fri Jan 15 2010
20100115 00:00:04< AI0867> which immediately goes out of scope
20100115 00:00:16< Crab_> Soliton: but, even if we don't get it right, only names are screwed up :)
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20100115 00:00:51< Crab_> Soliton: so, that's why I think that it's better to have all leaders as equals for all the game code which doesn't care which leader is 'main' :)
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20100115 00:01:29< Soliton> because you only screw up names?
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20100115 00:01:51< Soliton> we've just been talking about name issues..
20100115 00:01:54< Crab_> yes
20100115 00:02:23< Soliton> that's like an argument for not changing anything.
20100115 00:03:08< Crab_> well, that's exactly the current behavior minus the ability to easily select the side name from WML.
20100115 00:03:58< Crab_> i.e. we can do hacks like "ensure that Kalenz is placed after Landar - so, the side gets name 'Kalenz'', or we can modify_side to reset that name...
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20100115 00:04:18< Crab_> but we cannot specify 'this side will have this name regardless of what the leader names are'
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20100115 00:04:43< Crab_> Soliton: or, we cannot specify 'this side will take its name from this leader'
20100115 00:05:02< Crab_> fendrin: ^ note the workarounds , which we can apply in LoW.
20100115 00:05:47< boucman> hey all
20100115 00:05:56< Crab_> fendrin: for example, 'resetting the side name after each game load' will work.
20100115 00:05:58< Crab_> hi boucman
20100115 00:07:09< shadowmaster> sasl
20100115 00:08:58< YogiHH> Crab_: I saw your comment, looks good to me
20100115 00:09:09< boucman> hey YogiHH
20100115 00:09:15< YogiHH> hi boucman :)
20100115 00:09:17< boucman> did you see my message yesterday ?
20100115 00:09:23< YogiHH> errm, no
20100115 00:09:35< YogiHH> haven't read the backlog
20100115 00:09:44< Crab_> YogiHH: how can I reproduce the WorldConquest issue ?
20100115 00:09:53< boucman> there was two patches I wanted you to have a look at
20100115 00:09:55< Crab_> YogiHH: I'd like to test it, too, if it's possible.
20100115 00:09:57< boucman> gimme a sec
20100115 00:10:15< boucman> 1383
20100115 00:10:18< YogiHH> Crab_: tbh, i have no idea
20100115 00:10:27< boucman> 1392
20100115 00:10:37< Crab_> ok :)
20100115 00:14:07< YogiHH> boucman: from first glance, 1383 looks good to me, except that it can (and should) be modularized to remove redundancy. Shall i tell the guy to correct it or are we doing that ourselves normally?
20100115 00:15:06< boucman> normally you should ask the guy, but with 1.8 around the corner, you might want to do it yourself if this is really important
20100115 00:15:30< YogiHH> ok
20100115 00:19:09< YogiHH> boucman: 1392 is fine
20100115 00:19:44< boucman> YogiHH: ok, either commit them yourself, then or reassign to me after adding a comment so I know you're ok witht them
20100115 00:19:55< YogiHH> ok
20100115 00:25:09< YogiHH> night everyone
20100115 00:25:14< Crab_> night, YogiHH
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20100115 01:48:45< shadowmaster> I'm experiencing severe connection issues. Please don't ask me for anything.
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20100115 01:51:03< noy> shadowmaster: Can I have a cookie?
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20100115 02:16:19< shadowmaster> I only have bran cookies
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20100115 02:35:26< noy> shadowmaster: hellz yeah
20100115 02:48:04< CIA-61> fendrin * r40701 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/map.hpp: Return a reference instead of a copy to the tunnels.
20100115 02:49:50< CIA-61> fendrin * r40702 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/ (astarsearch.cpp pathfind.cpp): Check for pointers validity and import the tunnels in a reference.
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20100115 03:04:20< shadowmaster> I killed everything after SIGSTOP'ing X.org
20100115 03:04:44< shadowmaster> apparently, it thinks that it's a bad idea to continue running after a SIGSTOP/SIGCONT cycle
20100115 03:05:25< shadowmaster> the bastard didn't even provide a reason in the logs
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20100115 03:42:34< CIA-61> ai0867 * r40703 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/ (map.hpp pathfind.cpp): Constify gamemap::tunnels()
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20100115 03:55:39< fendrin> AI0867: It looks very working to me. Have you played a larger map against ai with it? How is the performance?
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20100115 04:13:58< AI0867> not yet
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20100115 04:44:25< fendrin> AI0867: I believe that Crab has something like an ai benchmark.
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20100115 05:24:46< AI0867> Ivanovic: how frozen is the feature freeze? That is, is a change that prevents commandline parameters from changing the preferences off-limits?
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20100115 12:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 59 bugs, 245 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100115 16:09:32 * Ivanovic does the happy student dance!
20100115 16:10:06< Ivanovic> all exams done, now i just have to write my thesis, then i got my degree
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20100115 16:34:13< boucman> Ivanovic: around ?
20100115 16:42:16< Ivanovic> jupp
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20100115 16:45:24< boucman> would you consider 15116 as a FR or as a bug (I personally would consider it a bug)
20100115 16:45:36< boucman> http://gna.org/bugs/?15116
20100115 16:45:56< Ivanovic> *really* hard to say
20100115 16:46:03< Ivanovic> the question is: what does the switch do?
20100115 16:46:19< boucman> not sure what you mean
20100115 16:46:25< Ivanovic> if it just toggles the switch that is also available via the ingame preferences: the params *have* to be saved!
20100115 16:46:37< Ivanovic> since you could just retoggle them ingame, what shall be saved then?
20100115 16:46:51< Ivanovic> how shall eg fullscreen and windowed be handled, since you can easily toggle those ingame, too
20100115 16:47:02< Ivanovic> that is: how does the --nosound option work?
20100115 16:47:15< Ivanovic> does it just remove the ticks from all sound lines or is it impossible to reactivate sound?
20100115 16:49:36< boucman> Ivanovic: please add a comment in the bug so AI0867 knows if he has to wait for 1.9
20100115 16:49:53< Ivanovic> i think AI0867 will read the highlight he just got
20100115 16:50:09< Ivanovic> in general i would like to know first how the --nosound switch works
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20100115 16:50:55< Ivanovic> if it works comparable to eg windowed as in "can be changed after the start" (via hotkey or preferences) then nothing should be changed regarding the feature, it makes sense to store the start params as "use those from now on" value
20100115 16:51:43< AI0867> Ivanovic: what --nosound does is set all sound preferences to disabled
20100115 16:51:46< Ivanovic> if it is a case of "completely remove sound support which can only be reactivated by restarting" then it is a case of "why is something like this in the prefs, since the settings themselves are not exactly what is in the ingame preferences, too
20100115 16:51:57< Ivanovic> AI0867: then it is not a bug at all but an existing feature
20100115 16:52:09< Ivanovic> AI0867: since if you change the prefs once ingame, what shall be changed?
20100115 16:52:20< Ivanovic> in general we do save the state we have when quiting the game
20100115 16:52:38< Ivanovic> that is regarding resolution as well as audio or windowed/fullscreen stuff
20100115 16:55:27< AI0867> there is indeed the issue with the buffered preferences overwriting later changes to that same preference, but many people expect commandline parameters to *not* change their preferences
20100115 16:55:43< AI0867> which is the case if --no-gui or --screenshot is passed
20100115 16:55:55< Ivanovic> no, there is a difference
20100115 16:56:01< Ivanovic> a clear difference between the two
20100115 16:56:04< AI0867> preference writes are then completely disabled
20100115 16:56:12< AI0867> there is
20100115 16:56:14< Ivanovic> there is no ingame option you can change when nogui is used
20100115 16:56:20< AI0867> indeed, the GUI can't be used to change things then
20100115 16:56:28< AI0867> but the expectation is the same
20100115 16:56:28< Ivanovic> and the same for screenshot
20100115 16:57:34< Ivanovic> and if you start with a start param nosound, how can you then change the prefs so that at the next start have no sounds, too?
20100115 16:57:48< Ivanovic> you will then have to start with sound before you are able to change things, which is strange, too
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20100115 16:59:57< Ivanovic> basically i think this report is more a case of "please document more clearly that this switch just changes things i can do via the ingame preferences, too, and that changes done are persistent"
20100115 17:02:05< AI0867> the alternative would require some sort of preference-shadowing, to be able to temporarily set a preference without affecting the preferences *at all*
20100115 17:02:42< Ivanovic> like i said, in general i prefer some comment regarding "with the startup param, you just change your ingame preferences!"
20100115 17:02:55< Ivanovic> since that is IMO the best thing to do regarding stuff like this
20100115 17:03:27< loonycyborg> AI0867: Maybe still save them if they've been changed in the gui?
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20100115 17:07:08< AI0867> loonycyborg: that would be the preferred solution, but my patch doesn't work that way (as that'd require changing the preference system)
20100115 17:07:37< AI0867> what I do is store the preference in a buffer before the commandline switch changes it
20100115 17:08:18< loonycyborg> Yes. I suspected that the preferred way will be quite hard to implenet :/
20100115 17:08:22< AI0867> so, if you pass --nosound, the value of preferences::sound_on() is buffered and passed to preferences::set_sound() when the game_controller is destructed
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20100115 20:10:05< mordante> servus
20100115 20:11:12< mordante> congrats Ivanovic 
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20100115 20:55:48< Zeffr> hey guys
20100115 20:56:01< Zeffr> I am having some trouble compiling the wesnoth source code
20100115 20:56:04< Zeffr> can anyone help me out?
20100115 20:56:18< Zeffr> oh shoot wrong IRC!
20100115 20:56:20< Zeffr> sorry!
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20100115 21:53:19< boucman> in what way would it change the game if instead of village being taken when a unit moves on them, they were taken at the beggining of the taking unit's next turn
20100115 21:53:32< boucman> i.e providing the oponent a chance to take it back 
20100115 21:53:45< boucman> (just rambling, i don't plan to implement it or anything)
20100115 22:01:42-!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@88.103.147.178] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100115 22:02:03< VladimirSlavik> hello...
20100115 22:02:34< mordante> hi VladimirSlavik 
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20100115 22:04:40< VladimirSlavik> wesbot: seen torangan
20100115 22:04:41< wesbot> VladimirSlavik: Sorry, I don't know of torangan.
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20100115 22:04:49< mordante> boucman, who would own a village is you capture it from team 2 and then it's team 2's turn (regarding the upkeep)
20100115 22:05:20< boucman> in my idea, you "take" the village at the beggining of your turn, before upkeep is calculated,
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20100115 22:05:41< boucman> so you get your gold as you did previously, assuming your unit has survived the ennemie's turn. 
20100115 22:05:56< mordante> I understand that part
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20100115 22:06:27< mordante> but the enemy does it still get the benefits of the village at the beginning of his turn
20100115 22:06:53< mordante> and what if he recaptures it in his turn
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20100115 22:09:54< boucman> hmm
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20100115 22:10:25< boucman> not sure, what do you think ? :)
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20100115 22:14:33< mordante> boucman, not sure feels not-KISS, but I'm also not sure what you want to achieve with your proposal
20100115 22:14:53< boucman> mordante: as i said it's more general rambling than a proposal
20100115 22:15:16< boucman> basically, I want still to keep the units able to grab one village per turn
20100115 22:15:57< boucman> but I thought it might be interesting if highly disputed villages didn't give the immediate economical advantage they currently give. 
20100115 22:17:23< mordante> boucman, I read it was rambling, just wondering what gameplay change you hoped to achieve
20100115 22:18:36< mordante> when you capture a village it starts to give you economical advantage on your next turn
20100115 22:20:35< mordante> Ivanovic, ilor, I've some WIP patches that should reduce the number of calls to invalidate layout only one problem...
20100115 22:21:12< mordante> when you select a game the contents of the selected game listbox often need to be resized causing a full invalidation
20100115 22:21:25< Ivanovic> not around, quite drunken atm (exam passed, watching movies with friends, ...)
20100115 22:22:01< boucman> mordante: selecting a game is a "rare" occurence, compared to the number of lobby update
20100115 22:22:02< mordante> Ivanovic, then you can read it tomorrow after your hang over ;-)
20100115 22:22:44< mordante> boucman, true only it causes the selected game always be the lowest item in the listbox
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20100115 22:29:13< boucman> why is that ?
20100115 22:30:58< Ivanovic> zombies are tasty!!!!
20100115 22:31:00< Ivanovic> ;)
20100115 22:31:13 * boucman doesn't want to know
20100115 22:31:22< Ivanovic> :)
20100115 22:32:00< Ivanovic> a zombie is a drink consiting of these things: rum, rum, rum, some more rum, a drop orange juice, a drop cherry extract
20100115 22:32:12< Ivanovic> oh, more rum (before i forget it)
20100115 22:32:38< Ivanovic> currently we are watching "hoodwinked", a Ü
20100115 22:32:48< Ivanovic> s/Ü/really funny movie
20100115 22:33:50< mordante> nice compression algorithm ;-)
20100115 22:34:42< mordante> boucman, since it redoes the entire layout and scrolls to the selected item that always is at the lowest visible slot 
20100115 22:35:16< mordante> that's just a design decision, but the layout shouldn't be invalidated that often
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20100115 22:36:51< boucman> mordante: hmm from a usability PoV i need to try it to see if it's usable...
20100115 22:37:01< Ivanovic> less layout invaliditions = better!
20100115 22:37:03< Ivanovic> ;)
20100115 22:37:16< mordante> indeed 
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20100115 22:39:38< mordante> boucman, you can already test it with the current lobby, the next version might improve that part slightly...
20100115 22:40:01< boucman> ok, trunk, or 1.7.4 ?
20100115 22:40:10< mordante> trunk
20100115 22:40:14< boucman> oh :(
20100115 22:40:19< mordante> ?
20100115 22:40:22< boucman> getting a busy lobby is harder with trunk
20100115 22:40:59< mordante> change your version to test in wesconf.h and connect to wesnoth.org:14999
20100115 22:41:14< boucman> k, will do
20100115 22:41:21< mordante> then you'll end in the 1.6 lobby
20100115 22:41:28< boucman> :)
20100115 22:41:35< boucman> that's evil :P
20100115 22:42:18< mordante> the only way to do sane test ;-)
20100115 22:42:23< mordante> time in top 1:17.92 vs. 11:09.57 :-)
20100115 22:42:26< Ivanovic> so don't use your normal user name
20100115 22:42:39< mordante> why not?
20100115 22:42:42< Ivanovic> it will not work, use some unredistered account
20100115 22:43:02< boucman> Ivanovic: ok
20100115 22:43:05< Ivanovic> the login method for 1.6.x is diffferent from the one used with 1.7x
20100115 22:43:23< loonycyborg> Yes. Forum authorization fails horribly when using trunk with 1.6
20100115 22:43:25< mordante> I thought ilor fixed that or only the crash?
20100115 22:43:33< Ivanovic> so when loggin in with the "normal" nich with 1.7.x on the stable server will result in some error messate
20100115 22:43:44< loonycyborg> mordante: He fixed it not working at all.
20100115 22:43:49< Ivanovic> (yes, i am too drunk, to type without errors!)
20100115 22:43:51< Ivanovic> ;)
20100115 22:44:03< mordante> luckily my forum account ain't mordante-test2 nor mordante-test22 ;-)
20100115 22:44:43< Ivanovic> :-D
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20100115 22:48:35< boucman> mordante: ok, i had misunderstood what you described
20100115 22:48:54< boucman> what I see is that it seems to regularly scroll back to the selected game
20100115 22:49:07< Ivanovic> boucman: yes, this is intentional!
20100115 22:49:13< Ivanovic> (the current "bug")
20100115 22:49:14< boucman> is it ?
20100115 22:49:15< mordante> yes, but scroll down and select a game
20100115 22:49:24< mordante> now press the up arrow
20100115 22:49:30< Ivanovic> thouhg it was better than "scroll to top at every refresh)
20100115 22:49:46< mordante> and that looks silly
20100115 22:49:48< boucman> ok, that particular scrolling don't disturb me too much
20100115 22:50:11< mordante> :-)
20100115 22:50:14< boucman> it's the "randomly scroll back to selected game while i'm browsing" that disturbs me
20100115 22:50:28< mordante> same cause
20100115 22:51:01< boucman> ok, 
20100115 22:51:07< boucman> definitely annoying, then :)
20100115 22:51:12< mordante> :-(
20100115 22:51:20< boucman> sorry
20100115 22:51:45< mordante> no need to I agree it's annoying (I didn't say that ;-) )
20100115 22:52:34< mordante> with my new patch the invalidation happens less so might happen less, but the "potential" is still there
20100115 23:00:11< mordante> I'm off night
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20100115 23:09:03< YogiHH> hello
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20100115 23:24:23< fabi> hi YogiHH
20100115 23:24:31< YogiHH> hi fabi
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20100115 23:25:51< fabi> YogiHH: I have started to write a class that can be made savegame persistent for the tunnel/teleport feature.
20100115 23:26:59< YogiHH> ok
20100115 23:27:01< fabi> YogiHH: I need a constructor teleport_group::teleport_group(vconfig cfg), right?
20100115 23:28:19< YogiHH> well, the constructor is not a must but most objects are designed that way and it makes sense (otherwise you would have to separate constructing and initializing from config and in this case i can't see why that should be necessary).
20100115 23:30:06< boucman> YogiHH: could you comment the two patches we mentionned yesterday ? i'll look at them tomorow
20100115 23:30:09< boucman> going to bed now
20100115 23:30:10< boucman> night
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20100115 23:30:30< fabi> YogiHH: Yes, I like the idea.
20100115 23:32:44< fabi> YogiHH: Where should the file of the class go? Toplevel is crowded as hell. Can we make a subdirectory for classes that are in fact wml tags?
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20100115 23:36:09< YogiHH> uh, good question. I personally would like to structure the code with categories in mind, like gui, engine, persistence, low level stuff (WML parser, network and such), but i guess it is not the right time to do that now :)
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20100115 23:39:38-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: string/feature freeze active! | 59 bugs, 245 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100115 23:39:38-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Fri Jan 15 12:21:16 2010]
20100115 23:39:38[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100115 23:39:38[ AI0867         ] [ deekay          ] [ Ingmar    ] [ loonycyborg ] [ shikadibot] [ Vetinari      ] 
20100115 23:39:38[ Amuchan        ] [ erl             ] [ isaac     ] [ lukjad007   ] [ Skystriker] [ VladimirSlavik] 
20100115 23:39:38[ AnMaster       ] [ esr             ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ MikeJB      ] [ Smar      ] [ wesbot        ] 
20100115 23:39:38[ Appleman1234   ] [ ettin           ] [ knotwork__] [ mjs-de      ] [ Soliton   ] [ yann          ] 
20100115 23:39:38[ Chusslove      ] [ evilshadowmaster] [ lobby     ] [ PK          ] [ stikonas  ] [ YogiHH        ] 
20100115 23:39:38[ CIA-61         ] [ fabi            ] [ lobby_    ] [ rosso       ] [ teaser    ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20100115 23:39:38[ crimson_penguin] [ grzywacz        ] [ loonybot  ] [ shadowmaster] [ Tigge     ] 
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20100115 23:43:00-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: string/feature freeze active! | 59 bugs, 245 feature requests, 8 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100115 23:43:00-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Fri Jan 15 12:21:16 2010]
20100115 23:43:00[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100115 23:43:00[ AI0867         ] [ deekay  ] [ Ingmar    ] [ loonycyborg ] [ shikadibot] [ Tigge         ] 
20100115 23:43:00[ Amuchan        ] [ erl     ] [ isaac     ] [ lukjad007   ] [ Skystriker] [ Vetinari      ] 
20100115 23:43:00[ AnMaster       ] [ esr     ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ MikeJB      ] [ Smar      ] [ VladimirSlavik] 
20100115 23:43:00[ Appleman1234   ] [ ettin   ] [ knotwork__] [ mjs-de      ] [ Soliton   ] [ yann          ] 
20100115 23:43:00[ Chusslove      ] [ fabi    ] [ lobby     ] [ rosso       ] [ stikonas  ] [ YogiHH        ] 
20100115 23:43:00[ crimson_penguin] [ grzywacz] [ loonybot  ] [ shadowmaster] [ teaser    ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20100115 23:43:00-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal]
20100115 23:43:29-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20100115 23:43:36< YogiHH> fabi: First off, this should be coordinated between devs, i think, as one of the goals should be to create blocks, where "lower-level functionality" doesn't depend on "higher-level functionality". This would require some major restructuring of the code as well as an overall agreement about how to do that.
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20100115 23:48:04< YogiHH> The second reason i would not do it now is that we are close to a new stable release. Even if that is a technical issue, that doesn't directly affect functionality, i think we should focus on different things atm.
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20100115 23:53:28< fendrin> YogiHH: No wonder that the toplevel is cluttered. If making a directory causes a political Grundsatzdiskusion.
20100115 23:53:29< YogiHH> fendrin: No, the top-level is cluttered because there haven't been such discussions so far ;-)
20100115 23:53:32< fendrin> YogiHH: Sometimes wesnoth development scares me.
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20100115 23:53:32< YogiHH> i think the main problem is that such a change is just too big for a single person (at least with my limited time i can spend) and that therefore other's need to be aware of the changes and support them.
20100115 23:53:40< YogiHH> Long ago, yann has been spending much time to get some structure into the wesnoth code, mainly by reducing unnecessary dependencies.
20100115 23:53:41< YogiHH> He found that people are introducing new dependencies faster than he was able to remove them.
20100115 23:53:41< fendrin> YogiHH: creating a directory that contains my single class for start and migrating over the time should be doable. Of course I don't want to push every class in there in a single step. I just want a nice home for my new class.
20100115 23:54:17< YogiHH> fendrin: In that case i would just do it and make people aware of what's the idea behind it, so that they can move along with it.
20100115 23:56:04< yann> hi YogiHH :)
20100115 23:56:48< YogiHH> yann: wow, you live :) . Hi :)
20100115 23:56:55< yann> right, cleaning up deps is a hard job
20100115 23:57:23< yann> but not completely unfeasible
20100115 23:58:02< yann> one possibility would be to enforce non-regression at commit-time (although graph-includes is a time-consuming thing)
20100115 23:58:11< yann> hey :)
20100115 23:58:56< yann> sure, it's been some time I've not said much here, but I still have an ear around, as you can see ;)
--- Log closed Sat Jan 16 00:00:22 2010