--- Log opened Tue Jan 26 00:00:01 2010
--- Day changed Tue Jan 26 2010
20100126 00:00:01< fendrin> Crab_: I guess esr is able to handle it. But if you can step in while esr seems to be away I would start the coding right after you finished.
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20100126 00:08:13< Crab_> fendrin: well, it's pretty easy to cherry-pick r40351, r40353, r40496, r40436 to get the new 'placement=' [unit] semantics, but it can mess things up a little if esr's going to backport all of those things, too.
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20100126 00:08:38< Crab_> fendrin: should I do it, updating your branch with new unit semantics ?
20100126 00:09:15< fendrin> Crab_: I am just compiling to check if esr has already done the work. I will tell you the result in some minutes.
20100126 00:10:31< Crab_> fendrin: looked at gna, he'd done it already.
20100126 00:10:47< fendrin> Crab_: Cool, sorry for bothering you with it.
20100126 00:10:51< Crab_> np
20100126 00:13:15< AI0867> 18:00 < zookeeper> well, yes, the macro isn't needed anymore if that's the case. still i think we might want to keep it in 1.8 for compatibility, since i don't think that change is very old...right? <-- 1.7.4, but yes, I'll just deprecate it without a planned removal version
20100126 00:13:24< AI0867> so that it can be removed in 1.9.0-svn
20100126 00:14:08< Crab_> fendrin: and, to be even more exact, you branched fendrin_pathfind on Sun Dec 27, and my [unit] changes were on Wed Dec 23 :)
20100126 00:14:22< Crab_> fendrin: so you had them from the very beginning :)
20100126 00:14:31< fendrin> Crab_: That is strange. 
20100126 00:15:14< Crab_> fendrin: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/gamestatus.cpp?rev=40862&view=log
20100126 00:15:41< fendrin> Crab_: What do I need to create a unit in the near of the leader in a [side] tag?
20100126 00:15:47< Crab_> placement=leader
20100126 00:17:30< fendrin> Crab_: It's strange that a unit that is on the recall list is created with just find_vacant=yes in it's tag but the unit's that are not in the recall list don't work that way. This will give problems with campaign debuggging.
20100126 00:17:47< Crab_> find_vacant is not used anymore
20100126 00:17:51< Crab_> in [unit], that is
20100126 00:17:56< Crab_> it's always 'yes'
20100126 00:18:42< Crab_> fendrin: what works wrongly/weirdly ? can you show an example
20100126 00:20:02< fendrin> Crab_: It is that without the placement=yes, units that are on the recall list get recalled but new ones are not created. 
20100126 00:20:26< Crab_> placement="yes" is invalid syntax :)
20100126 00:20:33< fendrin> Crab_: See the second scenario of VoW for a testcase. But maybe that is wanted as it is and I still don't get the new syntax.
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20100126 00:21:07< Crab_> to get recall-or-create semantics, you should use id=the_same_id_as_of_unit_on_recall_list in [unit]
20100126 00:21:13< BroodKiller> wesbot: seen Boucman
20100126 00:21:14< wesbot> BroodKiller: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 39m 15s ago.  38m 40s ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
20100126 00:21:17-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 61 bugs, 243 feature requests, 7 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100126 00:23:25< fendrin> Crab_: The units in question don't have a name. The named one, Vank is recalled from the recruit list. (At a time the player does see it's recall animation). The unnamed units don't get created without the placement=leader. They are on the map from the beginning.
20100126 00:25:25< Crab_> will take a look, now. checked out VoW
20100126 00:26:33< Crab_> fendrin: btw, are you using --log-debug=engine,engine/team_construction to debug those things ?
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20100126 00:27:26< fendrin> Crab_: No, I havent used that. I guess all that is missing is a placement=yes to be the default if the unit isn't named.
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20100126 00:27:54< fendrin> s/placement=yes/placement=leader
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20100126 00:29:19< Crab_> default for units in side is 'append "map,recall"'
20100126 00:29:57< Crab_> so, if no value is given, it's 'map,recall'
20100126 00:30:08< Crab_> that is 'try to place on vacant tile on map, if not possible - put to recall'
20100126 00:31:51< fendrin> Crab_: Okay, I will get used to the new syntax.
20100126 00:32:57< Crab_> it's even documented now :) http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SingleUnitWML
20100126 00:33:27< fendrin> Crab_: Great.
20100126 00:34:18< Crab_> fendrin: so, as you see, in VoW2, those drakes are spawned according to given coordinates.
20100126 00:34:45< Crab_> fendrin: because x,y are given, and point to a valid on-map vacant location ('possible to move?' is not checked)
20100126 00:37:15< Crab_> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m270b11e0
20100126 00:37:18< fendrin> Crab_: The spawn_side macro is commented out on my disc.
20100126 00:37:56< fendrin> Crab_: It is working now I am fine with the issue :-)
20100126 00:37:59< Crab_> good
20100126 00:38:53< Crab_> note that there's no need to use 'placement=map' or 'placement=map,recall' because those are the defaults.
20100126 00:39:28< Crab_> also note that you can nowadays put leader into recall list, and it'll work without glitches.
20100126 00:39:44< Crab_> (this might be useful if there's another leader present)
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20100126 01:03:28< esr> fendrin: I'm working on the tunnel merge.
20100126 01:06:57< fendrin> esr: I am still wondering if the path_utils class should also be part of the pathfind directory and namespace.
20100126 01:10:07< esr> fendrin: Let me now before you change te code?  The merge is at a tricky stage; I've refactored the trunk code so it has your drectory structure and the pathfind calls are in a pathfind namespace, but haven'd done the final patch.
20100126 01:10:36< esr> s/me now/me know/
20100126 01:11:02< fendrin> esr: Okay, the branch is completed. It works well and can stay as it is till the merge finaly takes place.
20100126 01:12:11< esr> fendrin: The unmerged stuff is 1149 lines of diff.  That's about a quarter  the size of the raw patch you sent me.
20100126 01:14:07< fendrin> esr: oh
20100126 01:14:51< fendrin> esr: Is the move in a seperate directory the reason for this?
20100126 01:15:49< esr> Yes, that's what made the merge difficult.  TAbout half that and half the drift in the trunk code.  But the directory move was a good idea.
20100126 01:16:34< fendrin> I would like to sort more of the code in subdirectories. Toplevel is just too crowded.
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20100126 01:24:49< esr> fendrin: Uh oh. I
20100126 01:25:16< esr> I have run into a dependency I'm not sure I can resolve.
20100126 01:28:25< loonycyborg> esr: What do you mean by that?
20100126 01:29:12< esr> There used to be a teams_manager structure.  fendrin's tunnel patch relies on it, but it's now gone.
20100126 01:29:37< loonycyborg> Then use svn blame to find who removed it.
20100126 01:30:26< esr> Doesn't help enough by itself. I'd need to know the exact interface of the replacement, too.
20100126 01:31:18< loonycyborg> blame will get you the rev number and you'll probably see what the replacement supposed to be in the diff.
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20100126 01:47:33< fendrin> esr: I thought it was save to fork trunk while in feature and string freeze. Seems like no one else cares about our release policy.
20100126 01:48:59< esr> fendrin: Well, to be fair, the drift I'm seeing was probably bug fixes rather than feature additions.
20100126 01:52:21< loonycyborg> fendrin: feature freeze won't prevent people from renaming/removing stuff.
20100126 01:52:48< fendrin> loonycyborg: My definition of feature freeze would include stable interfaces.
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20100126 01:55:21< esr> fendrin: I think I have rewached a limit here.  Hold on while I pastebin the unmerged stuff...
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20100126 02:00:00< esr> fendrin: Where I've hit a problem is in the changes tp play_controller.[ch]pp.  I think those are just a refactoring and all but a few lines could be merged into trunk, just leaving out the setting on the tunnel resources.  But tis teams_manager thing gets in the way.
20100126 02:01:23< fendrin> esr: Where is the teams manager used?
20100126 02:02:16< esr> I'll pastebin in a moment.
20100126 02:03:04< esr> I think I need you to mege that code into trunk (minus the few lines of tunnel references).  It's the largest undigested lump in the patch.
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20100126 02:04:08< CIA-53> esr * r40863 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/ (mouse_events.hpp play_controller.cpp): More merges from trunk to dimplify the tunnel diffs.
20100126 02:04:54< CIA-53> esr * r40864 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca_default_move_to_targets.cpp: Yet another pathfind namespace fix.
20100126 02:06:22< esr> fendrin: This is the unmerged stuff - http://pastebin.com/m3dabb398
20100126 02:07:42< esr> The problem stems from the team_manager_ reference on line 480.
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20100126 02:08:43< esr> Note, that diff does not include the modified astarcearchcpp, pathfind.cpp, and teleport.cpp.  Those merges are the easieat part, though.
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20100126 02:14:39< fendrin> esr: The codelines in question are not connected to pathfinding in any way. I guess they have been included in the patch because of whitespace or other format changes only. 
20100126 02:14:59< esr> Really? 
20100126 02:15:03< esr> Hmmm...
20100126 02:16:30< esr> Thesere's stuff in that patch band that is rtelated to pathfinding, though.  Like tine 120 where you set the tunnels member.
20100126 02:17:17< esr> This means you need to do some tricky surgery - that patch band has to be pulled apart so we can apply only your changes.
20100126 02:17:29< fendrin> AI0867: Do you know about changes in play_controller.cfg that could prevent merging? There have been no changes to the file, only additions, if you don't consider format changes, right?
20100126 02:21:36< fendrin> esr: Okay, so I will copy the play_controller.* files into the branch and insert only the pathfinding related changes?
20100126 02:22:00< esr> fendrin: That would be really useful.
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20100126 02:27:42< fendrin> esr: I am on it.
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20100126 02:27:54< esr> OK.
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20100126 02:56:12< fendrin> esr: Hmmm, the merge is complete. But now I have a sporadic assert because of a nullpointer.
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20100126 03:14:08< CIA-53> fendrin * r40865 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/ (7 files): Merged the team manager changes from trunk.
20100126 03:14:11< fendrin> esr: ^
20100126 03:15:29< esr> Good.
20100126 03:16:55< esr> I'm in the process of creating an EXPERIMENTAL configure option to guard experimental code like this.  I'll add it to both branches so it doesn't complicate the diffs.
20100126 03:17:36< fendrin> esr: That is a preprocessor usage?
20100126 03:17:49< esr> Yes.
20100126 03:18:18< esr> This is probably not the last time a conditional like that will be useful.
20100126 03:21:42< esr> fendrin: You cvhange a loop limit from 6 to 7 in map.cpp.  Is that part of new pathfinding or orthogonal to it?
20100126 03:21:43< fendrin> esr: That way 1.8 will contain the code but it will be disabled by default? 
20100126 03:21:51< esr> fendrin: Yes.
20100126 03:24:02< fendrin> esr: No, this is an old artifact from doing the teleports in another way. I will switch it back to 6.
20100126 03:24:23< esr> Good, that will simplify things a bit.
20100126 03:24:44< esr> See, you're getting a code review along with your patch merge :-)
20100126 03:25:10< fendrin> esr: Yes, good that you spotted that glitch.
20100126 03:26:26< CIA-53> fendrin * r40866 /branches/fendrin_pathfind/src/map.cpp: Changed the number of adjacent tiles back to 7 since the adjacent teleport fields are no longer handled in the game_map.
20100126 03:27:23< GauHelldragon> how come sometimes bridges in random maps are castles
20100126 03:27:50< GauHelldragon> like in a place where it looks like there should be a bridge, it will make castle instead
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20100126 03:38:19< fendrin_> esr: Do you want to merge my other new features in the experimental compile switch as well?
20100126 03:42:50< esr> Probably, but let's gert this one done first.
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20100126 03:57:32< AI0867> fendrin_: we've only added stuff, yes
20100126 03:59:52< GauHelldragon> :) 
20100126 04:12:45< CIA-53> esr * r40867 /trunk/ (SConstruct configure.ac): (log message trimmed)
20100126 04:12:45< CIA-53> Add experimental option. This defaults to 'yes' for odd-numbered
20100126 04:12:45< CIA-53> (unstable) versions, 'no' for even-numbered (unstable) versions.
20100126 04:12:45< CIA-53> It controls an EXPERIMENTAL preprocessor symbol, defined only
20100126 04:12:45< CIA-53> when experimental is 'yes', and an EXPERIMENTAL automake conditional.
20100126 04:12:47< CIA-53> Thio is meant as a guard option for experimental, developer-only
20100126 04:12:49< CIA-53> code that should be disabled in stable versions. The immediate
20100126 04:16:25< CIA-53> esr * r40868 /trunk/SConstruct: Doc typo fix.
20100126 04:22:29< esr> fendrin_: Do you know how to set an #ifdef symbol in .cfg from C++?
20100126 04:30:23< AI0867> esr:         cache_.add_define("MULTIPLAYER"); <-- from game.cpp
20100126 04:30:31< AI0867> line 601
20100126 04:31:20< AI0867> so, something alongs the lines of: #ifdef EXPERIMENTAL \n cache_.add_define("EXPERIMENTAL"); \n #endif ?
20100126 04:31:28< esr> AI0867: Thanks, I found that.  I'm going to set EXPERIMENTAL in WML-space when -DEXPERIMENTAL is on, that way we can have experimental WML too.
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20100126 04:31:58< esr> AI0867: Yes, you got it.
20100126 04:33:43< CIA-53> esr * r40869 /trunk/src/game.cpp: -DEXPERIMENTAL now sets an EXPERIMENTAL #define in WML.
20100126 04:40:35-!- fendrin_ is now known as fendrin
20100126 04:41:22< fendrin> hmmm
20100126 04:47:38< CIA-53> ai0867 * r40870 /trunk/configure.ac: Make autotools set the right define
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20100126 06:05:07< esr> fendrin: Still there?
20100126 06:05:31< fendrin> esr: Yes, I am working on VoW scenario2. It's nearly ready.
20100126 06:06:41< fendrin> s/VoW/WoV
20100126 06:06:42< esr> I have a nearly complete EXPERIMENTAL merge of the tunnel code, but there is some minor compilation glitch in one of the AI files.
20100126 06:07:54< esr> I think I'll commit it with EXPERIMENTAl temporarily defaulted off, I expect you'll be able to turn that on and fix whatever it is in a couple of minutes.
20100126 06:09:08< fendrin> esr: Yes, please do that.
20100126 06:10:56< fendrin> I will need to see how eclipse can be tuned to use the EXPERIMENTAL flag from the cmake configs.
20100126 06:12:13< esr> OK.  All I need to do is test compile with EXPERIMENTAL off to make sure I haven't broken anything in the regular build, then I'll commit.
20100126 06:13:29< GauHelldragon> yay!!!
20100126 06:13:31< GauHelldragon> good luck esr
20100126 06:13:34< GauHelldragon> i am rooting for you
20100126 06:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 65 bugs, 243 feature requests, 7 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100126 06:25:12< fendrin> esr: Does Galun need to be a Fire Drake?
20100126 06:26:17< esr> I suppose not. I wanted to give the player the option of Drake Flare at L2.  Why?
20100126 06:30:12< fendrin> esr: It would ease the coding of scenario2 if he would be a fighter. If he is a warrior it is clear that he will be a warrior at level2. So it's clear what classes are his opponents. If he is a fire drake there are 2 choises at level 2 for him. I would need to code his enemy after it.
20100126 06:33:44< esr> That's weird..."scons: *** [buscons: *** [build/release/libwesnoth_extras.a] Source `ifdef.o' not found, needed by target `build/release/libwesnoth_extras.a'."ild/release/libwesnoth_extras.a] Source `ifdef.o' not found, needed by target `build/release/libwesnoth_extras.a'.
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20100126 07:34:36< CIA-53> esr * r40871 /trunk/ (29 files in 10 dirs): 
20100126 07:34:36< CIA-53> Merge of fendrin's new teleport and tunnel code. The changes are guarded by
20100126 07:34:36< CIA-53> the C++ and WML conditional symbol "EXPERIMENTAL".
20100126 07:34:36< CIA-53> The experimental flag is temporarily defaulted off, so thos patch should have no
20100126 07:34:36< CIA-53> effect on people doing ordinary builds. This may change once fendrin has the
20100126 07:34:39< CIA-53> tunnel code fixed and polished.
20100126 07:34:47< esr> fendrin: There's your merge.
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20100126 08:20:43< fendrin> esr: Thank you. There is still a compile error inside?
20100126 08:53:32< fendrin> esr: Did you test the merge with build=debug? It's broken.
20100126 08:54:32< fendrin> esr: The teleport.cpp and teleport.hpp files are missing.
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20100126 09:03:20< esr> Oops. I'll fix.
20100126 09:04:38< CIA-53> esr * r40872 /trunk/src/pathfind/ (teleport.cpp teleport.hpp): Oops, these files are needed to go with the last commit.
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20100126 09:29:49< k23z__> ah yes
20100126 09:29:59< k23z__> does wesnoth use SDL ?
20100126 09:30:08< fendrin> k23z__: yes
20100126 09:30:12< k23z__> very good
20100126 09:30:15< k23z__> becuase I use it also
20100126 09:30:36< fendrin> k23z__: Good for you.
20100126 09:31:07< k23z__> can I get some advise on what to read to write a game like mario using SDL ?
20100126 09:31:14< k23z__> I mean I don't know how to do side-scrolling
20100126 09:31:19< k23z__> I don't know how to put textures
20100126 09:31:23< k23z__> I mean I can load bmps or whatever
20100126 09:31:28< k23z__> but then it's the problem of speed also
20100126 09:31:38< k23z__> I'm writing a tetris game right now which isn't exactly speedy
20100126 09:32:08< k23z__> I also have this data structure problem of not knowing exactly how to arrange data ... in an elegant way so I don't end up having too much classes etc
20100126 09:32:37< k23z__> I also need to write some menus
20100126 09:32:46< k23z__> I'm trying to write a windowing framework with SDL as well
20100126 09:32:51< k23z__> but it's damn hard
20100126 09:32:58< k23z__> the main problem that I'm facing is testing
20100126 09:33:32< fendrin> k23z__: Maybe you have a look at Frogato. It's by the same designer than wesnoth, uses sdl and is a side scroller.
20100126 09:34:27< k23z__> automated testing. if for some math problem I'd have to do testing it wouldn't be that hard because I'd just use a testing framework like Goole Test or Google Mock and just check up results. but for testing something written in SDL I need to check if stuff is in the position where it's supposed to be on screen and if it has the right color and if it's in the right state , I also asked this quesiton here http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.as
20100126 09:34:27< k23z__> p?topic_id=560041
20100126 09:34:30< k23z__> http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=560041
20100126 09:35:28< k23z__> fendrin, I just googled fo' that didn't find anything
20100126 09:35:53< k23z__> I also think It'd be good to read the gang of four book for c++ to know about how to design the classes of the game
20100126 09:36:23< fendrin> k23z__: http://www.frogatto.com/
20100126 09:36:52< k23z__> oh yes the double t
20100126 09:37:17< fendrin> k23z__: Think twice before you start a game in c++. I would use  a more high level language.
20100126 09:37:29< k23z__> such as ?
20100126 09:37:42< k23z__> fendrin, using a higher level language is a very very good idea, the problem that appears is speed
20100126 09:37:58< k23z__> fendrin, if I don't get enough speed I can't render fast enough and stuff like flickering appears etc...
20100126 09:38:25< k23z__> fendrin, how long do you think it would take an intermmediate c++ programmer (me) using mingw(gcc toolchain) to write a game like frogatto  for example ?
20100126 09:38:53< fendrin> k23z__: If you are alone it will take forever.
20100126 09:39:15< k23z__> but why ?
20100126 09:40:20< k23z__> fendrin, also how do you guys debug ? (I wrote a tetris game recently and found a nice function on gamdev.net that would print multil-line values and strings using SDL_ttf to the screen and now I'm going to abstract it in a sort of a debug console like they have in half-life or whatever in order to see stuff)
20100126 09:40:48< k23z__> fendrin, can you tell me more about frogatto please ?
20100126 09:41:01< k23z__> fendrin, and how big is the team behind it
20100126 09:41:21< fendrin> k23z__: I think most wesnoth developers use the debugger. I don't know much about frogatto. 
20100126 09:42:53< fendrin> esr: There are new warnings after the merge: warning unit: Unknown attribute 'find_vacant' discarded. warning unit: Unknown attribute 'die_sound' discarded.
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20100126 09:43:31< k23z__> fendrin, you mean the visual c++ debugger ?
20100126 09:43:41< k23z__> fendrin, what compiler do you guys use usually ? 
20100126 09:43:52< Soliton> gcc
20100126 09:43:55< k23z__> fendrin, is wesnoth developed mainly on windows or Linux ?
20100126 09:44:02< k23z__> Soliton, oh nice, and the latest version of gdb ?
20100126 09:44:09< fendrin> k23z__: gcc since the visual stuff only works on faulty operating systems.
20100126 09:44:21< k23z__> I'm using gcc and gdb also with dev-c++ on windows
20100126 09:44:44< k23z__> how do you guys test the game ?
20100126 09:44:49< k23z__> do you have an automated testing suite ?
20100126 09:44:58< k23z__> is that employed somewhere in the game ? engine or ... ?
20100126 09:45:58< fendrin> k23z__: Wesnoth builds a test binary with the game binary. But I haven't used it so far.
20100126 09:46:53< k23z__> and what does the test binary do ?
20100126 09:49:25< Soliton> run tests.
20100126 09:50:33< k23z__> yes but how
20100126 09:50:37< k23z__> what kind of test
20100126 09:50:57< fendrin> k23z__: Checkout the wesnoth source code and have a look.
20100126 09:50:58< k23z__> like mock tests for example when you create a class, fake the context and test it to see how it responds ?
20100126 09:51:27< fendrin> k23z__: unit tests?
20100126 09:51:47< k23z__> these are called unit tests ?
20100126 09:52:19< fendrin> k23z__: A unit test is a test that checks if the interface of a class holds it's dynamic semantic.
20100126 10:08:53< esr> fendrin: Is that better?
20100126 10:10:02< fendrin> esr: yes, trunk compiles without the EXPERIMENTAL flag. But it does spit out warnings like  warning unit: Unknown attribute 'find_vacant' discarded. warning unit: Unknown attribute 'die_sound' discarded. I guess these are new and introduced by the merge.
20100126 10:10:21< esr> Must be.
20100126 10:10:33< fendrin> esr: My main problem is that I don't know how to tell cmake to enable the EXPERIMENTAL build.
20100126 10:11:16< esr> There isn't any way yet - I don't know cmake.  I suggest you use scons instead.
20100126 10:12:54< esr> "scons experimental=True" should do it.  You'll know it worked if you see -DEXPERIMENTAL in the compile commands. 
20100126 10:13:16< fendrin> esr: cmake is the only way I know of to get a configuration for my eclipse ide. I realy don't want to do without eclipse.
20100126 10:14:20< fendrin> eclipse sometimes gives me the feeling that c++ doesn't deserve more fish to be thrown at as is left in the sea.
20100126 10:14:48< esr> Can't help you.  Don't know anything about Eclipse.  But all yout have to do is figure out how to beat cmake into adding -DEXPERIMENTAL to the compile flags.
20100126 10:15:51< esr> While you do that I'll have a look at cleaning up the warnings in the non-EXPERIMENTAL build.
20100126 10:17:39< esr> And you did right to hand the merge job to me.  It's something you'll need to learn how to do eventually, but this would not have been a good case to start off with; it was complicated enough to actually require my low and evil cunning :-)
20100126 10:21:31< fendrin> :-)
20100126 10:22:40< k23z__> do you guys use any todo or gtd sotware ?
20100126 10:22:41< GauHelldragon> is there a way to turn off the random names of things in random maps
20100126 10:22:55< fendrin> k23z__: bugs.wesnoth.org
20100126 10:34:23< esr> fendrin: When compiling *without* -DEXPERIMENTAL, I see no warnings.
20100126 10:35:48< fendrin> esr: The warnings are not during compile time but runtime. I started WoV scenario 2 and there they are. With a warning about the unknown [tunnel] tag what is expected without the EXPERIMENTAL stuff. 
20100126 10:38:03< esr> Well, that makes sense.  You could wrap that code in #ifdef EXPERIMENTAL/#undef, but I'm not sure that would be useful.  After all the scenario can't really work at all without [tunnel], if I'm understanding correctly.
20100126 10:47:07< fendrin> esr: Got Eclipse working. You can't reproduce the warnings with a normal build and WoV scenario 2? The errors about unit wml should be valid in both branches.
20100126 10:47:26< esr> I haven't tried yet.
20100126 10:59:00< Ivanovic_> moin
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20100126 11:03:15< fendrin> esr: teleport.hpp is an empty file. I guess that is the compile error. 
20100126 11:03:30< esr> That's odd.
20100126 11:03:55< esr> Well, you have a copy of it.
20100126 11:04:14< fendrin> esr: Doesn't it need any extra EXPERIMENTAL magic?
20100126 11:05:15< esr> Probably not.  The structures and declarations in it won't be instantiated by the compiler if EXPERIMENTAL is off.
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20100126 11:06:58< fendrin> esr: There are also some empty ifdef EXPERIMENTAL segments at the end of pathfind.hpp
20100126 11:07:21< esr> That can srand to be fixed, I guess.
20100126 11:07:32< esr> s/srand/stand/
20100126 11:23:32< CIA-53> fendrin * r40873 /trunk/src/pathfind/teleport.hpp: Replaced the empty teleport.hpp with a working one.
20100126 11:24:05< CIA-53> fendrin * r40874 /trunk/src/pathfind/pathfind.hpp: Removed empty ifdefs.
20100126 11:24:47< CIA-53> fendrin * r40875 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: Added a switch for the EXPERIMENTAL compile flag.
20100126 11:24:55< fendrin> esr: All is working now :-)
20100126 11:25:19< esr> Ah good.  How does scenario 2 look?
20100126 11:25:47< esr> (And I guess this means you can kill off the fendrin-pathfind branch.)
20100126 11:28:58< fendrin> esr: You can see how the new tunnel works in scenario2. Most of the capture the egg code is working but I haven't finished the event that brings the eggs home yet. The ai isn't aware off the new gamerules but crap told me he would like to code it.
20100126 11:29:48< fendrin> s/crap/crab
20100126 11:32:08< CIA-53> esr * r40876 /trunk/SConstruct: 
20100126 11:32:08< CIA-53> Now that the new pathfind code is working, enable it by default in 1.7
20100126 11:32:08< CIA-53> (but not 1.8 betas).
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20100126 11:53:46< fendrin> esr: The warnings were caused by loading a savegame from the branch (Which had some older savegame semantics). There are still two warnings about unknown x and y attributes but that are hopefully from wrong wml code in the scenario.
20100126 12:01:50< Ivanovic> esr: ehm, the last commit is *strange*
20100126 12:02:03< Ivanovic> all 1.7.x releases from now on *are* at least beta!
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20100126 12:02:54< Ivanovic> IMO it is wrong to enable some feature that in the svn version that is not enabled in the betas
20100126 12:02:57< esr> Ivanovic: Yes, but I'm trying to adhere to our no-new-features policy while still making it convenient to test fendrin's code.
20100126 12:03:03< Ivanovic> since we do use the svn versions to check for bugs in the betas
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20100126 12:03:16< Ivanovic> and if some different code paths are used this will get *really* difficult
20100126 12:03:35< Ivanovic> make it convenient by adding some --enable-experimental flag and use that
20100126 12:03:58< esr> The branch approach wasn't working - the code is changing so fast that merges were brutal.
20100126 12:04:09< Ivanovic> but a default trunk build should be identical to a default release build minus the bugs that were fixed since the last release
20100126 12:05:20< Ivanovic> and it would get even worse if someone reports an error (due to this still experimental code) that others using autotools or cmake are not able to reproduce since it ain't active by default
20100126 12:05:45< Ivanovic> sure, if the experimental switch is set it is easy to see that it is due to that, but setting it by default is IMO a bad thing
20100126 12:06:13< Ivanovic> (yes, so far it was not required to ask for the build system used when bugs were reported unless it was a compile bug)
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20100126 12:06:44< esr> That's a good point.
20100126 12:09:17< fendrin> Ivanovic, esr: I would also prefer if the feature would be disabled by default. That way I can code more freely without having to worry about messing everything up.
20100126 12:10:44< Ivanovic> another good point
20100126 12:10:46< Ivanovic> :)
20100126 12:11:47< CIA-53> esr * r40877 /trunk/SConstruct: Nail the default of 'experimental' to False.
20100126 12:13:18< esr> I think we should, however, try to mainstream the refactoring parts of that code - though not the new features -- once its been tested.  Minimizing the number and length of conditional sections is a good thing.
20100126 12:13:19< loonycyborg> EXPERIMENTAL is rather bad name unless it's a new convention used for *all* experimental features.
20100126 12:13:47< esr> loonycyborg: The intention is for it to be re-usable for other things, yes.
20100126 12:16:46< fendrin> esr: isn't the refactoring part (that is the namespace move, right?) already mainstreamed now?
20100126 12:17:55< Ivanovic> deekay: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28661&start=0
20100126 12:18:02< fendrin> loonycyborg: It's also for my new recall/recruit gui and the new cursor feature :-P
20100126 12:18:20< esr> That part, yes, but I think we could mainstream more, maybe. Like the changes to use he teleport list everywhere rather than location fectors - those ought to work even if the support for [tunnel] is compiled out.
20100126 12:18:35< esr> s/fectors/vectors/
20100126 12:20:27< fendrin> esr: The support for [tunnel] is rather uncritcal. The teleport class is the EXPERIMENTAL thing.
20100126 12:21:07< esr> Do you think it's cleaner than the old way of handling teleports?
20100126 12:22:36< fendrin> esr: It's a question of speed. We need to see if the ai is noticeably slower than with the old code. The old code was realy low level performance hack. The author did know what he was doing. I am more a try and error c++ coder yet.
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20100126 12:25:51< esr> fendrin: Noted.
20100126 12:30:51< esr> fendrin: Note, however, that I value readability and maintainability over speed.  Machines get faster every month, but grotty code is a pain forever.
20100126 12:31:48< fendrin> esr: That reminds me to add more comments as long as I am still familiar with the code.
20100126 12:32:01< esr> Yes, please do that.
20100126 12:38:17< esr> I'm off to sleep.
20100126 12:43:16< Ivanovic> esr: though speed and memory usage (the latter is more of an issue) are really important for mobile devices
20100126 12:43:36< Ivanovic> significant steps backwards in those areas *are* problematic
20100126 12:44:49< esr> Yes, but typically not for long.  My G1 has as much memory and as powerful a processor  as a machine from two Moore's-Law cycles back.
20100126 12:45:11< esr> And my G1 is getting long in the tooth :-)
20100126 12:45:28< Ivanovic> esr: we have to work with the hardware available *now*
20100126 12:45:44< Ivanovic> we can't say "hey, wesnoth might work on mobile devices that are just released in some 5 to 10 years"
20100126 12:45:49< esr> Yes, I understand.
20100126 12:46:03< Ivanovic> and current devices tend to not have more than 200MB available for a single process
20100126 12:46:11< Ivanovic> normally it is even below 100MB
20100126 12:46:26< Ivanovic> and we all know that wesnoth eats memory alive
20100126 12:46:44< esr> Om nom nom. :-)
20100126 12:47:02< fendrin> esr: Om nom nom? 
20100126 12:47:42< esr> Um.  LOLspeak.  It's the sound of a cat enjoying food.
20100126 12:48:09< fendrin> I thought you try to decrease the memory usage by meditation.
20100126 12:48:32< esr> :-)
20100126 12:48:35< esr> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=om+nom+nom+nom
20100126 12:49:34< esr> Yours was a reasonable conjecture, however.
20100126 12:49:36< esr> :-)
20100126 12:55:18< fendrin> Ivanovic: The biggest performance problem is that every call to the pathfinder (which is done by the ai quite often) may trigger 2 slf and one suf for every defined teleport group (of which the mage teleport ability is one). Crab already suggested to cache the filtering if the map hasn't changed since the last. We will see if this is neccessary.
20100126 12:56:33< fendrin> slf aren't cheap. The suf isn't that costly.
20100126 12:56:53< Ivanovic> what are slf?
20100126 12:57:01< fendrin> standart location filter
20100126 12:57:05< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20100126 12:57:09< fendrin> s/standart/standard
20100126 12:57:10< Ivanovic> time for my breakfast, bbs
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20100126 13:49:02< Ivanovic> re
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20100126 15:05:23< Ivanovic> hmm, not sure if this report is for ilor or for mordante, probably ilor...
20100126 15:05:25< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15205
20100126 15:07:15< Ivanovic> hmm, these two are probably a task for silene, not sure though either:
20100126 15:07:16< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15204
20100126 15:07:19< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15203
20100126 15:07:58< Ivanovic> zookeeper: can you have a look at this one? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15206
20100126 15:09:15< zookeeper> i'm guessing a duplicate id..
20100126 15:09:27< Ivanovic> yeah, very likely
20100126 15:09:32< zookeeper> i'll try to take a look tonight
20100126 15:09:38< Ivanovic> thanks
20100126 15:13:21< fendrin> Ivanovic: regarding https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15204 . I once asked for the debug define available in wml and was told to implement it myself if I like it. Should this work now?
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20100126 17:26:10< Ivanovic> fendrin: no idea!
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20100126 17:46:50< fendrin> Ivanovic: Feature was never implemented would be a good reason to close the bug.
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20100126 18:02:31< Skystriker> If I wanted to change the font ingame (as for a message between teammates or opponents), what file do you think that be in?  Game.cpp? Game_display? Game_events? multiplayer? multiplayer UI? theme? show dialog? textbox? window?
20100126 18:04:27< Skystriker> Looking through the source code is daunting, trying to take off a teeny tiny bite first :P
20100126 18:07:10< loonycyborg> Probably somewhere in WML.
20100126 18:08:03< loonycyborg> E.g. global font settings are in data/hardwired/fonts.cfg
20100126 18:09:47< Skystriker> Thanks :)
20100126 18:11:56< fendrin> loonycyborg: Skystriker: That is not the only place since we have an old gui and the new gui2 system.
20100126 18:12:24< Skystriker> Hm
20100126 18:12:41< Skystriker> I'm unfamiliar with how that affects it :(
20100126 18:13:08< loonycyborg> fendrin: They're both affected by it afaik
20100126 18:13:59< fendrin> loonycyborg: No.
20100126 18:14:24< fendrin> Skystriker: Have a look at the file data/gui/default/macros/_initial.cfg as well.
20100126 18:14:42< Skystriker> Thanks :)
20100126 18:15:15< fendrin> Skystriker, loonycyborg: Maybe that has changed and my knowledge is outdated. But there are still font definitions in _initial.cfg.
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20100126 18:21:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 66 bugs, 243 feature requests, 7 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100126 18:30:01< Sky2> fendrin, http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d4836edfd was all I found in _initial.cfg that wasn't just font sizes
20100126 18:37:55< fendrin> Sky2: 
20100126 18:37:56< fendrin> #define GUI_NORMAL__FONT_SIZE__TINY
20100126 18:37:58< fendrin>         10
20100126 18:38:00< fendrin> #enddef
20100126 18:38:21< fendrin> Sky2: ^ look at the end of the file for them.
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20100126 19:03:31< CIA-53> esr * r40878 /trunk/ (data/core/macros/traits.cfg po/wesnoth/it.po): Address bug #15212: Trait "Aged": wrong gender.
20100126 19:06:02< esr> And we get some use out of my rusty Italian...
20100126 19:06:09< stikonas> esr: ^^ breaks the string freeze
20100126 19:06:33< stikonas> when Ivanovic will run pot-update, all languages will have untranslated string
20100126 19:07:02< esr> What, *adding* a translation can do that?
20100126 19:07:59< stikonas> a new sting will appear in pot files, and then in all po files
20100126 19:08:08< stikonas> not that I'm against that change
20100126 19:08:18< stikonas> but Ivanovic may be unhappy
20100126 19:08:56< stikonas> probably better wait for him, and ask what to do with this bug
20100126 19:09:27< esr> I'll ask.
20100126 19:16:27< CIA-53> esr * r40879 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/en_GB.po: Updated.
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20100126 19:49:36< Skystriker> Bleh MP lobby crash
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20100126 20:08:53< CIA-53> ai0867 * r40880 /trunk/data/core/macros/ (deprecated-utils.cfg utils.cfg): Deprecate the NEURTRAL_SIDE macro
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20100126 20:30:17< Ivanovic> re
20100126 20:31:30< Ivanovic> esr: stikonas is 100% correct
20100126 20:31:56< esr> What shout I change?
20100126 20:31:58< CIA-53> esr * r40881 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: 
20100126 20:31:58< CIA-53> Add test for DEBUG_MACRO; "wesnoth --test --debug" should produce
20100126 20:31:58< CIA-53> a dialog box at start noting that "Debug mode is on". Presently
20100126 20:31:58< CIA-53> this doesn't work (bug #15204), though the message is emitted just
20100126 20:31:58< CIA-53> fine if the #ifdef guard is not there.
20100126 20:32:06< Ivanovic> a string that was previously shown translated ingame (female units with the trait "aged") is now for all langs *not* shown translated, the english one is used for those now
20100126 20:32:11< Ivanovic> and this is a *bad* change in those regards
20100126 20:32:48< esr> I had a wrong idea about how ^ works, then.
20100126 20:32:50< Ivanovic> stikonas: and the string is already shown untranslated for you, even without pot-update
20100126 20:33:00< Ivanovic> after the pot-update it will just *show* for all langs
20100126 20:33:12< Ivanovic> esr: in general po files work with a 1:1 *exact* matching
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20100126 20:33:54< Ivanovic> where the string that is used to match is from the po file the msgid (think of it like a plain lookup table, if tehre is a translation mentioned in the lookup table it will be used, if there is none, the original will be used)
20100126 20:34:34< Ivanovic> and yeah, everything in the string matters, ingame we just have this hack with the ^ to not show stuff before the ^ (only used for the original string though)
20100126 20:35:17< esr> Oh, I see.
20100126 20:37:53< esr> I wantes to ask you about those image references that are now showing up in poedit - and the string "2 + villages - maximum(0, upkeep - villages)".  Did you really intend to make those translatable?
20100126 20:40:31< Ivanovic> what you just said is not an image reference
20100126 20:40:38< Ivanovic> this one is the "calculation formula"
20100126 20:40:46< Ivanovic> and yeah, it is intentional that it is translateable
20100126 20:41:17< stikonas> esr: also, note that poedit unwraps all lines, so small change results in large commit, though in principle this is not a big problem
20100126 20:41:20< Ivanovic> just have a look at the german manual for an example: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/doc/manual/manual.de.html
20100126 20:43:47< CIA-53> esr * r40882 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/en_GB.po: Updated translation.
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20100126 20:59:32< mordante> servus
20100126 21:01:13< mordante> Ivanovic, that bug's mine, already assigned it
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20100126 21:05:42< CIA-53> esr * r40883 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/it.po: Fix up some stray items in the Italian translation.
20100126 21:07:05< esr> I shouldn't be used for translating connected prose to Italian -- my grammar isn't good enough -- but I can do words and short phrases. I used to speak it.
20100126 21:07:58< mordante> esr regarding merges between branches, that's the problem with svn, branching is easy merging not :-(
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20100126 21:08:51< esr> mordante: Yeah, that merge was kind of ugly.  Not easy even for me and I am *very* experienced at such things...
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20100126 21:09:21 * mordante remembers merging back his terrain branch
20100126 21:09:22< shadowmaster> it would be easy if everyone got lazy and stopped touching the parent (trunk)
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20100126 21:09:43< esr> shadowmaster: Can't do that.  Too many bugs.
20100126 21:09:46< shadowmaster> meanwhile wesnoth falls to pieces
20100126 21:09:49< shadowmaster> exactly
20100126 21:09:50< mordante> I also prefer to enable the feature post 1.8
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20100126 21:10:06< shadowmaster> "prefer"? we are in feature freeze already :P
20100126 21:10:20< mordante> I know
20100126 21:11:09< shadowmaster> It'd be really annoying if such a big thing made it in middle of a feature freeze, considering many minor features that could be introduced without even breaking the string freeze.
20100126 21:11:42< esr> That's why I did an experimental flag.  We don't want to ship fendrin's tunnel code until 1.9, but (a) he and I need to test WOV before then, and (b) branch merges are a bitch.
20100126 21:12:14< esr> It's not a perfect solution, but I can't think of a better one.
20100126 21:12:53< shadowmaster> what flag is it?
20100126 21:13:58< mordante> esr, what's the reason for the ifdef in mouse_events.hpp? I changed the signature and name to return a reference which should be slightly faster (depending on the size of the structure)
20100126 21:14:17< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: experimental=true
20100126 21:14:27< esr> experimental=True if you're using scons. --enable-experimental in configure.  Theres a cmake switch fendrin put in but I don't know what it is.  
20100126 21:15:01< esr> mordante: Ask fendrin.  All I did was merge his branch code; I don't understand it very well.
20100126 21:15:29< mordante> fendrin, ^^^^
20100126 21:20:12< mordante> Crab_, ai/testing/ca.cpp around line 1756 do you know why the #ifdef is there or should I ask fendrin 
20100126 21:20:24< Skystriker> Man I am failing hard at even this simple search ><
20100126 21:20:24< Crab_> will take a look
20100126 21:20:43< mordante> what search Skystriker 
20100126 21:21:04< Skystriker> I'm trying to take baby steps at starting working on wesnoth.  I'm trying to find where I can switch the font for MP ingame chat
20100126 21:21:21< Skystriker> I've been bouncing around the source for hours xD
20100126 21:22:11< Skystriker> I was referred to data/hardwired/fonts.cfg and data/gui/default/macros/_initial.cfg
20100126 21:22:18< Skystriker> But didn't get too far with them.
20100126 21:22:35< Crab_> mordante: keep 'double best_rating = -1000.0;', without ifdef
20100126 21:23:11< Crab_> mordante: I fixed a small glitch in the retreat phase of the ai in trunk after fendrin's code branched away.
20100126 21:23:13< mordante> Crab_, I expected that
20100126 21:23:35< mordante> and I remember such a commit, that's why I asked you ;-)
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20100126 21:23:50< mordante> Skystriker, font.hpp contains the gui1 values
20100126 21:24:12< Crab_> mordante: big negative value there makes AI retreat from very bad position to bad positions, if no good are available.
20100126 21:24:37< Skystriker> Thankee mordante xD
20100126 21:25:38< mordante> Crab_, see my memory is good :-)
20100126 21:25:44< mordante> you're welcome Skystriker 
20100126 21:25:45< esr> Ivanovic: OK, that's wacky.  I found an error in the Polish translation - the string for "Red orb" looked suspicious, and when I checked with Google Translate I found it actually means "Redo move".
20100126 21:26:06< Ivanovic> esr: have a look at the fuzzy marker!
20100126 21:26:20< Ivanovic> the string is fuzzy, so the original is just "rather close"
20100126 21:26:21< esr> Ah, that explains it.
20100126 21:26:32< esr> I can finish that translation.
20100126 21:26:53< Ivanovic> ages ago when we introduced "orb" in the po files the string "ork" was used as reference (hey, it is a 66% match ;) )
20100126 21:27:05< grzywacz> google translate?
20100126 21:27:06< Ivanovic> no idea if someone is currently working on the polish translation
20100126 21:27:20< Ivanovic> though i'd recommend piping this stuff through grzywacz or deekay
20100126 21:27:28< grzywacz> It translates "the doctor is happy" (in Polish) to "the doctor is homosexual" (in German). Good luck using it.
20100126 21:27:56< esr> grzywacz: It's pretty good for single words and short phrases, homosexual doctors being a bit of an exception.
20100126 21:28:09< mordante> many goes through English ;-)
20100126 21:28:17< Ivanovic> grzywacz: you just have to alter the string often enough so that you can pipe it through google translate in both ways and get the same result
20100126 21:28:19< mordante> maybe*
20100126 21:28:30< mordante> Ivanovic, for some values of rather close, I've seen fuzzy suggestions that had nothing to do with the original
20100126 21:28:34< esr> I check by translating and reverse-translating - if I get the original English back it's all good.
20100126 21:28:44< Ivanovic> mordante: yeah, this happens, too
20100126 21:28:52< Ivanovic> that is why you have to check the fuzzy strings
20100126 21:29:33< grzywacz> Ivanovic, I see vonbureck on jabber pretty much every day, but he's often busy and works on wesnoth in bursts.
20100126 21:29:51< CIA-53> mordante * r40884 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp: 
20100126 21:29:51< CIA-53> Remove an #ifdef EXPERIMENTAL.
20100126 21:29:51< CIA-53> The code was changed in trunk and should remain as is.
20100126 21:29:57< Ivanovic> grzywacz: okay
20100126 21:31:18< esr> grzywacz: Also, I know the techniques they use to refine translations involve statistical matching on large parallel text databases.  Thus, Foo -> English and English -> Bar are more likely to be correct than Foo -> Bar
20100126 21:31:41< esr> Though I have seen it generate bad Italian occasionally on longer phrases.
20100126 21:33:33< CIA-53> mordante * r40885 /trunk/src/map.cpp: Revert r40871 for map.cpp, only adds an #include.
20100126 21:34:42< CIA-53> esr * r40886 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/pl.po: Fix up Polish translation a bit.
20100126 21:34:49< esr> grzywacz: Look over my Polish commit, please?
20100126 21:35:16< esr> It's pretty straightforward but it's always nice to have a native-speaker check.
20100126 21:35:23< mordante> hey I can do that as well for the German translation ;-P
20100126 21:35:40< mordante> fendrin, what's the plan with the teleport ability after the tunnels are enabled?
20100126 21:35:53< esr> mordante: I haven't touched the German translation yet :-)
20100126 21:36:04< mordante> I have ;-)
20100126 21:36:46< esr> mordante: Wait, I thought you were Dutch.  Or am I confusing you with someone else?
20100126 21:37:14< mordante> no you're not
20100126 21:37:42< mordante> but I try to improve my German and reading the German translation helps
20100126 21:37:48< esr> Ah.
20100126 21:37:57< stikonas> esr: you are not the only one allowed to look at foreign languages :)
20100126 21:38:04< esr> :-)
20100126 21:38:07< Ivanovic> esr: many dutch people speak some german
20100126 21:38:20< esr> Makes sense.
20100126 21:38:53< mordante> I think more that a lot of people from the Netherlands think they speak German ;-)
20100126 21:39:10< esr> Ghod knows I've picked up enough odd bits of foreign languages over they years, and I'm from a notoriouslu monolingual ciuntry.
20100126 21:39:21< esr> s/ciuntry/country/
20100126 21:39:24< esr> :-)
20100126 21:40:19< esr> The non-English language Americans are most likely to speak, BTW, is Spanish.  By quite a large margin.
20100126 21:40:21< shadowmaster> stupid Frefox
20100126 21:41:15< Ivanovic> esr: i'd guess that it depends on the region
20100126 21:41:31< Ivanovic> that is: in the south it is the case that *many* people speak spanish
20100126 21:41:34< shadowmaster> by the way, svn can get stuck for two days after  a connection failure occurs. Why is that?
20100126 21:41:45< Ivanovic> though in the north i'd expect langs to be a lot more mixed
20100126 21:41:48< shadowmaster> (and not even react to SIGTERM...)
20100126 21:42:06< Ivanovic> (eg i would not expect spanish to be the most common foreighn lang eg in the state washington)
20100126 21:42:14< esr> Ivanovic: We have a long border with Mixico and a lot of Caribbean and South American immigrants. 
20100126 21:42:21< mordante> shadowmaster, is there a wiki blame feature?
20100126 21:42:44< shadowmaster> mordante: oh, no idea, I don't want to have anything to do with that hideous MEdiaWiki thing
20100126 21:42:59< esr> The only real competitor in Nortyh America is French and there simply isn't a lot of cross-border trade with Quebec.
20100126 21:43:05< mordante> :-(
20100126 21:43:12< shadowmaster> I used to be a wiki sysop long ag when I still had a stiny bit of paitnet left
20100126 21:43:15< Ivanovic> noone likes canada
20100126 21:43:16< Ivanovic> ;)
20100126 21:43:17< shadowmaster> tiny bit of patience
20100126 21:43:33< shadowmaster> and not in this messy wesnoth.org wiki
20100126 21:43:36< Crab_> mordante: there is a plugin for that, but there's no such functionality in stock install
20100126 21:44:24< mordante> Crab_, :-(
20100126 21:44:32< Ivanovic> talking about the wiki:
20100126 21:44:34< mordante> ah well I found what I was looking for
20100126 21:44:55< Ivanovic> Crab_: IIRC you once said that you will "eventually" have a look at upgrading/updating the wesnoth wiki
20100126 21:45:02< Ivanovic> is this still true?
20100126 21:45:04< Ivanovic> ;)
20100126 21:45:12< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, and this is still true. only got to find some time :)
20100126 21:45:19< mordante> Nital has been adding easy coding tasks 
20100126 21:45:34< Ivanovic> valid and wanted tasks?
20100126 21:46:08< mordante> I'm not sure this one is wanted http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding#Use_different_font_for_in-game_chat
20100126 21:48:22< mordante> afk
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20100126 21:50:53< Skystriker> Yea I've been tripping up all day trying to find the right place to change that, xD
20100126 21:51:04< grzywacz> esr, it's kind of difficult to read the po diffs
20100126 21:51:27< grzywacz> Not to mention that newlines are butchered. ;)
20100126 21:51:46< grzywacz> Would be easier if you told me what has changed. :P
20100126 21:52:01< Ivanovic> rough guess: esr just edited the file with poedit and has not run the po file update command to get the newlines converted to the default
20100126 21:52:51< esr> Ivanovic: Your guess is correct. 
20100126 21:53:11< esr> I don't really understand the translation machinery yet.
20100126 21:53:32< Ivanovic> the problem is that in general po files can be formated in million different ways
20100126 21:53:53< Ivanovic> poedit always converts the files to "use a line per string and don't insert newlines after 80 chars"
20100126 21:54:14< Ivanovic> our repo has the files in a "browser friendly" just 80 chars per line format
20100126 21:54:40< Ivanovic> so if you directly commit a file as stored with poedit it will result in basically every line being changed
20100126 21:55:49< CIA-53> esr * r40887 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/et.po: More stray translation items, in Estonian this time.
20100126 21:57:01< Ivanovic> esr: next time before commiting, please run the command to update and merge the po files against the pot file
20100126 21:57:02< esr> You mean every line *of the entire file*? Ugh...
20100126 21:57:09< Ivanovic> when using cmake this is my command:
20100126 21:57:19< Ivanovic> make po-update-LANGCODE; make mo-update-LANGCODE
20100126 21:57:28< Ivanovic> run from the po/ folder
20100126 21:57:36< grzywacz> From the ones I found, the strings for "Top Panel", "2 + villages - maximum(0, upkeep - villages)", "Red orb", "No orb" are incorrect/nonsense, so you can revert that commit to make work easier for the maintainer (unless they are still marked as fuzzy).
20100126 21:58:12< Ivanovic> and i had to enable the pot-update target with this cmake line:
20100126 21:58:22< Ivanovic> cmake ../wesnoth-trunk -DENABLE_POT_UPDATE_TARGET=TRUE
20100126 21:58:24< esr> grzywacz: Wouldn't it be better if you just corrected them?
20100126 21:58:38< grzywacz> I'm not the maintainer and I'm busy with something else.
20100126 21:59:02< esr> I'll fuzz them, then.
20100126 21:59:14< Ivanovic> esr: copy your changed files, revert the version in svn to the one from before your commit and then recommit with "merged" files
20100126 21:59:33< Ivanovic> IIRC loonycyborg also included those targets somehow in scons, you have to ask him how to get that stuff done though
20100126 21:59:54< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: It's much easier with scons: scons update-po lang1 lang2
20100126 22:01:53< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: i run a script with several other commands (like the pofix call and a call of dos2unix plus some copy commands) anyway
20100126 22:01:56< Ivanovic> does not matter at all
20100126 22:02:04< Ivanovic> i just run ./wesnoth update-lang LANGCODE
20100126 22:02:20< Ivanovic> check the output for errors, check if the lang is listed in the changelogs and commit
20100126 22:06:01< CIA-53> esr * r40888 /trunk/po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): Fuzzify some tranalation grzywacz says are incorrect.
20100126 22:06:37< grzywacz> Well yeah, were these the only ones changed?
20100126 22:06:58< Ivanovic> esr: please don't touch any po files for a while and let me try to fix them myself
20100126 22:07:11< Ivanovic> that is: fix them in a way so that meaningfull diffs are generated
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20100126 22:08:02< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Anyway, are people other than you supposed to merge against .pot files?
20100126 22:08:04< Ivanovic> and i will revert all of r40888
20100126 22:08:15< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: yeah, torangan, too
20100126 22:08:29< esr> Ivanovic: OK.
20100126 22:08:38< Ivanovic> esr: i will revert everything of this commit since you changed *seeral* files even though before you just edited manual
20100126 22:08:55< esr> The merge utility did that.
20100126 22:09:28< Ivanovic> does anyone know directly what the command for "rollback single revision" was?
20100126 22:09:58< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: git revert :P
20100126 22:10:06< Ivanovic> no git over here
20100126 22:10:24< loonycyborg> No idea how one does that with svn.
20100126 22:10:30< Crab_> svn merge can be used for that
20100126 22:10:49< Ivanovic> Crab_: yeah, i know, though there was an extra command for a single rev IIRC
20100126 22:11:47< grzywacz> There's revert, but that's for local changes only.
20100126 22:13:30< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40889 /trunk/data/core/macros/traits.cfg: 
20100126 22:13:30< CIA-53> revert new string from r40878, the new translated string (will be moved into the comment section of the po file) can stay in the file po/wesnoth/it.po
20100126 22:13:30< CIA-53> fixing the bug has to wait till 1.8 is tagged
20100126 22:13:30< CIA-53> original commit msg:
20100126 22:13:30< CIA-53> Address bug #15212: Trait "Aged": wrong gender.
20100126 22:13:36< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: btw POTFILES.in weren't updated to reflect the tunnel changes.
20100126 22:13:47< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: and?
20100126 22:14:00< Ivanovic> does not matter at all, those are just references and that merge should not have added any strings!
20100126 22:14:02< loonycyborg> Just to warn you.
20100126 22:14:31< loonycyborg> That'll cause non-existant files to be there.
20100126 22:14:47< loonycyborg> Since some files were moved to other directories.
20100126 22:15:07< loonycyborg> Like astarsearch.cpp
20100126 22:16:03< loonycyborg> You'll definitely have some fun when doing pot-update.
20100126 22:18:19< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40890 /trunk/po/ (12 files in 9 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20100126 22:18:19< CIA-53> revert several commits by esr concerning translation updates
20100126 22:18:19< CIA-53> will apply the changes again in the next commits in a way that generates more meaningfull diffs
20100126 22:18:19< CIA-53> reverted revisions:
20100126 22:18:19< CIA-53> 40882
20100126 22:18:20< CIA-53> 40883
20100126 22:18:24< CIA-53> 40886
20100126 22:18:57< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: nope, the cmake recipe done by mordante is rather smart, it automatically generates the POTFILES.in file
20100126 22:19:26< loonycyborg> From what?
20100126 22:19:53< Ivanovic> from the textdomain definitions used in the cpp files
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20100126 22:21:11< loonycyborg> Is there some utility for that?
20100126 22:21:24< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40891 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/it.po wesnoth-manual/it.po): 
20100126 22:21:24< CIA-53> reapply changes from r40883 (and merge Italian mainfile against pot-file, new string now commented out):
20100126 22:21:24< CIA-53> updated Italian translation
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20100126 22:22:56< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40892 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/en_GB.po: 
20100126 22:22:56< CIA-53> reapply r40882:
20100126 22:22:56< CIA-53> updated British English translation
20100126 22:24:19< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40893 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/et.po: 
20100126 22:24:19< CIA-53> reapply r40887:
20100126 22:24:19< CIA-53> updated Estonian translation
20100126 22:25:06< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40894 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manual/pl.po: 
20100126 22:25:06< CIA-53> reapply r40886:
20100126 22:25:06< CIA-53> updated Polish translation
20100126 22:25:51< Ivanovic> grzywacz: this diff should be a lot more readable
20100126 22:26:02< Ivanovic> esr: is it correct that you left all the strings marked fuzzy?
20100126 22:26:20< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: the utility is the cmake recipe
20100126 22:26:32< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: probably via some string matching
20100126 22:26:59< loonycyborg> Then why it wasn't done before I wonder..
20100126 22:26:59< esr> I fuzzed the ones grzywacz said were incorrect, but not the image references.
20100126 22:27:00< grzywacz> Ivanovic, indeed, thanks.
20100126 22:27:56< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: i don't know, i just know that the cmake recipe does so
20100126 22:28:21< loonycyborg> Ignorance is not an argument :P
20100126 22:29:37< Ivanovic> have a look at cmake/update_pot_source_dependencies.cmake to see how mordante coded it for cmake
20100126 22:29:48< Ivanovic> basically some "if the domain is defined, then" thingie
20100126 22:30:37< mordante> exactly
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20100126 22:31:13< mordante> I needed the same at work and I'm too lazy to manually update those files ;-)
20100126 22:31:18< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: in fact the diff for the POTFILES.in is rather tiny
20100126 22:31:46< Ivanovic> mordante: you don't want to add po4a and asciidoc support to stuff you do at work, right?
20100126 22:31:48< Ivanovic> ;)
20100126 22:32:13< mordante> actually I probably will :-)
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20100126 22:32:45< mordante> how else am I going to make a manual that can be translated 
20100126 22:33:25< mordante> of course I could write a *cough* word document and convert it to html and translate it
20100126 22:33:46 * Ivanovic punished the person introducing the new string "Hidden Teleporter" in the test scenario!
20100126 22:33:59< Ivanovic> fendrin: string freeze is also there for your test stuff!
20100126 22:34:01< mordante> that would also work, until I start to revise the manual
20100126 22:34:17< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Therefore all sourcefiles should be in one of POTFILES.in?
20100126 22:34:22< mordante> why are there translatable strings in the test scenario?
20100126 22:34:37< mordante> loonycyborg, yes
20100126 22:34:41< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: no, the source files should *only* be in the correct POTFILES.in
20100126 22:34:57< Ivanovic> that is: in the one they would appear in ingame
20100126 22:35:09< Ivanovic> and "nothing defined" -> wesnoth.pot
20100126 22:36:55< CIA-53> mordante * r40895 /trunk/src/ (mouse_events.hpp play_controller.cpp): Remove an unneeded #ifdef introduced in r40871.
20100126 22:38:06< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40896 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: no strings in the test scenario should be translateable!
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20100126 22:42:29< mordante> AI0867, regarding r40880, IMO now is not the time to deprecate macros since they show a message in game and it's a kind of API change
20100126 22:44:13< Ivanovic> esr: in r40871 you broke src/Makefile.am
20100126 22:44:32< Ivanovic> esr: i will try to fix it though silene should have a look at it, too (since what i do is ugly hacking!)
20100126 22:46:20< mordante> esr, or add the file unconditionally for the build system and ifdef the entire file itself
20100126 22:46:32< mordante> I do that for a gui2 debug file
20100126 22:47:18< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40897 /trunk/src/Makefile.am: 
20100126 22:47:18< CIA-53> attempt to fix the makefile that was broken in r40871
20100126 22:47:18< CIA-53> @silene: please check if things should work now, all I wanted to make sure is that I can still run "make update-po4a" which is possible again...
20100126 22:47:42< mordante> that makes it also easier for other build systems like MSVC
20100126 22:51:49< esr> Isn't it about time we started killing off old build machinery?  It's not like scons doesn't work, and having three systems is a serious maintainance buden.
20100126 22:51:58< CIA-53> ivanovic * r40898 /trunk/ (133 files in 25 dirs): 
20100126 22:51:58< CIA-53> pot-update (no new/changed strings, just updated references)
20100126 22:51:58< CIA-53> regenerated doc files
20100126 22:53:05< mordante> MSVC is not in our normal build systems ;-)
20100126 22:53:32< mordante> and with the amount of time I invested in cmake I'm not in the mood to nuke it
20100126 22:54:03< loonycyborg> Isn't MSVC a compiler? :P
20100126 22:54:10< Ivanovic> esr: personally i really like the cmake build system since it works well and does what it should
20100126 22:54:22< Ivanovic> beside this, this is the only build system i can tinker with myself if required
20100126 22:54:34< stikonas> is anybody still using autotools?
20100126 22:54:38< mordante> loonycyborg, exactly
20100126 22:54:44< Ivanovic> stikonas: silene is IIRC
20100126 22:54:45< mordante> yes silene does
20100126 22:56:32 * loonycyborg is planning to stay with scons until he makes something better :P
20100126 22:58:31< mordante> I'm off night
20100126 22:58:44< esr> Oops, I should unfuzzy the en_GB strings.
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20100126 23:00:27< Ivanovic> :)
20100126 23:00:46< Ivanovic> you can just do so using a plain texteditor and deleting the fuzzy marker line
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20100126 23:10:28< esr> Urgh, didn't see the above til too late.
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20100126 23:41:57< Ivanovic> esr: svn revert is your friend!
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 27 00:00:04 2010