--- Log opened Thu Jan 14 00:00:59 2010
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20100114 00:30:11< shadowmaster> Laogeodritt: what account is it?
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20100114 00:35:52< hollunder> any idea when 1.8 will be out?
20100114 00:36:40< fendrin> hollunder: Please don't ask that. It is ready when it is ready.
20100114 00:37:06< VurtualRuler98> Remember this, though: Every second, it is one second closer.
20100114 00:37:18< VurtualRuler98> Unless you had a flux capacitor accident or something.
20100114 00:37:27< hollunder> I'm just waiting hard ;)
20100114 00:37:46< hollunder> don't want to touch it before 1.8 is out. 1.6 feels so old
20100114 00:37:51< fendrin> hollunder: But you can download the latest beta release, test it, report bugs and help by this way.
20100114 00:38:08< hollunder> fendrin: do you think that a lot will change?
20100114 00:38:14< Ivanovic> hollunder: the betas are already quite good and close
20100114 00:38:23< Ivanovic> the main issue atm is the speed in the multiplayer lobby
20100114 00:38:33< hollunder> my main interest is new content, always craving for new campaigns
20100114 00:38:35< Ivanovic> it is not up to the load a stable release will result in
20100114 00:38:45< Ivanovic> there was "only" one added this time
20100114 00:38:50< Ivanovic> but eg low was reworked
20100114 00:39:00< hollunder> which one was added?
20100114 00:39:01< Ivanovic> (as in "half the text changed")
20100114 00:39:06< Ivanovic> delfadors memoirs
20100114 00:39:11< Ivanovic> of course also heavily edited
20100114 00:39:18< hollunder> played it ages ago I think
20100114 00:39:22< hollunder> ah, k
20100114 00:39:54< hollunder> I played basically every playable inofficial one for 1.6 as well
20100114 00:40:24< Ivanovic> if you mainly rely on singleplayer 1.7.11 should basically be fine for you
20100114 00:40:55< hollunder> ok, thanks
20100114 00:41:40< hollunder> What I miss most with bascially any opensource game is the lack of content. A number of games have a lot of potential but are far too short
20100114 00:42:10< Ivanovic> wesnoth is not too short
20100114 00:42:20< Ivanovic> considering how much time you will need to play through every campaign...
20100114 00:42:25< Ivanovic> (mainline only that is)
20100114 00:42:46< hollunder> I know, wesnoth has a lot of content, but I also know it since years
20100114 00:42:58< hollunder> wesnoth is kind of an exception in that respect
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20100114 01:08:42< shadowmaster> Laogeodritt: never mind, see e-mail
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20100114 04:15:01< Skystriker> i wonder if this'll be the first time Wesnoth has been livestreamed.  lol.
20100114 04:17:08< fendrin> Skystriker: ?
20100114 04:17:25< Skystriker> I play league of Legends
20100114 04:17:30< Skystriker> And I talk about wesnoth sometimes on their IRC
20100114 04:17:39< Skystriker> Got like 5ish of the irc players to play it with me
20100114 04:17:52< Skystriker> And we often livestream LoL games for the IRC to observe and comment on
20100114 04:17:57< Skystriker> So we've been asked to livestream a wesnoth game, lol
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20100114 04:27:50< Chakravanti> Why is beta so dead
20100114 04:28:04< shadowmaster> the lobby UI is too slow in 1.7.x
20100114 04:28:15< shadowmaster> don't worry, that must be fixed before 1.8 is released.
20100114 04:28:49-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20100114 04:28:52< Chakravanti> pita cuz i compile >.> lol
20100114 04:29:26< shadowmaster> uhm?
20100114 04:34:20< Chakravanti> pain in the ass
20100114 04:34:26< Chakravanti> to switch versions
20100114 04:35:06< shadowmaster> right, I don't understand why that would be so difficult.
20100114 04:35:23< Chakravanti> it's not hard
20100114 04:35:25< Chakravanti> just takes forever
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20100114 09:29:36< Eam_> HI!
20100114 09:30:01< Eam_> Hi!
20100114 09:30:33< Eam_> I have a question.
20100114 09:31:25< Eam_> Isn't anyone here?
20100114 09:31:36< zookeeper> .
20100114 09:31:52< Eam_> Good!
20100114 09:32:17< Eam_> I need to know does Wesnoth require 3D Accel on Linux?
20100114 09:32:20< Blarumyrran> That was a fine question
20100114 09:32:24< Blarumyrran> oh
20100114 09:33:13< Eam_> Any Linux user know?
20100114 09:33:14< zookeeper> no, it doesn't
20100114 09:33:39< Vornicus> It doesn't even use 3d, last i knew
20100114 09:33:40< Eam_> Good!  :) Thanks zookeeper!
20100114 09:34:23< Eam_> I lost my 3D accel when I had to change graphics cards.
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20100114 09:36:05< Eam_> I was checking other games out; I don't think anything quite compares to Wesnoth.  I am sure glad to know I don't need 3D accel, because I may have to do without it for a while.  :)
20100114 09:36:48< Blarumyrran> Many games have a lack of need for 3d acceleration comparative to Wesnoth
20100114 09:38:22< Eam_> I have never seen a game I liked as much as Wesnoth tho; I used to be an avid chess player until Wesnoth stole me from it.
20100114 09:39:01< Sacho> Wesnoth is definitely a lot of fun.
20100114 09:39:03< Vornicus> Wesnoth is one of the most supported foss games out there.
20100114 09:39:25< Vornicus> It's certainly the most professional.
20100114 09:44:42< Eam_> Did KDE get around to making windows resizeable by dragging the the sides like it used to, or do they still only give one a choice of only 3 sides instead of any like it used to be?
20100114 09:46:02< Eam_> I have to compile a lot of packages to keep compiling Wesnoth; a new SuSE Linux could save me work, but I won't switch unless KDE catches up to the way it used to be.
20100114 09:46:14< sevis> Last I remember of KDE4(.3, I think), any of the eight points could be grabbed and resized.
20100114 09:46:37< sevis> Well, four corners and four sides, I mean.
20100114 09:47:16< Blarumyrran> KDE4 would make you resize icons. On the desktop. What kind of sick person would ever want to do that.
20100114 09:47:31< sevis> I've seen that in Gnome long, long ago...
20100114 09:48:28< sevis> And except for never using desktop icons in Linux, I think I'd gladly have that.
20100114 09:48:59< Eam_> I have 3 SuSEs more recent than the one I use, but they only allow 3 sizes of windows.  Whereas on KDE3.x I just drag the sides of the window.  I don't know why they rolled back.  I actually think they envy their users.
20100114 09:49:13< Blarumyrran> If all icons are not of the same size & dont form a nice grid, it takes many times as much time to find anything
20100114 09:49:25< Blarumyrran> Why would you have that.
20100114 09:50:10< sevis> Eam_, I'm very certain I've resized KDE4 windows to whatever size I wanted, are you sure this isn't a tweak by SuSE?
20100114 09:50:42< Eam_> In SuSE KDE will let one choose any icon us want for User or Root, whereas Mandriva only gives one a choice of 3 or 4- that's a far cry from any on the whole desktop.
20100114 09:50:45< sevis> Blarumyrran, I'd have some commonly used icons quite large and in the center, and then those closer to the edges smaller and smaller.
20100114 09:51:24< Eam_> I don't know; that is why I was wondering to myself if Kubuntu might be the answer.
20100114 09:51:40< sevis> Would still be a grid, but one that curves towards me in the centre, instead of being flat.
20100114 09:52:22< Eam_> Kubuntu is supposed to be Ubuntu with KDE.
20100114 09:52:54< sevis> Eh, Kubuntu had some problems for me, mostly pulseaudio, but I heard they fixed that.
20100114 09:53:04< Blarumyrran> sevis, a "flat" grid is the most intuitive kind of grid though
20100114 09:53:10< sevis> It sometimes sticks GTK apps into the mix, though.
20100114 09:54:10< sevis> Blarumyrran: I'd say that's a question of habit. Having things that I use more (appear) closer to me would be more logical for me.
20100114 09:55:22< Eam_> In SuSE if one Iinstall First Time Settings For Beginners one has to make sure one goes into YAST and shuts it off otherwise one would lose all one's KDE settings when one rebooted- which seems like another case of an OS envying its own users.
20100114 09:56:14< Eam_> If it weren't for stuff like that Linux would catch up to Windows and would have more games on it too.
20100114 09:59:08< Eam_> It was months before I figured out enough to shut the First Time settings off in YAST so I kept losing my KDE settings in root everytime I rebooted- I don't how I stuck with it until I found out better.  Is that any way to treat a beginner?
20100114 09:59:16< Ivanovic> moin
20100114 10:00:30< sevis> Well, it stops the beginner from breaking anything too badly...
20100114 10:03:52< Eam_> I know but SuSE lost more than one user that way.  Howeverso, as long as I have Wesnoth and few other games I am happy enough with my old flexible linux now, because one has to live with one's os, but a Windows user is anything but stupid. :)
20100114 10:07:18< Eam_> If I find a good Linux with flexible windows for KDE like on my old SuSE 9.0, then I'll buy a new computer and put both Windows and Linux on it!  :)
20100114 10:07:40< sevis> Er, do you mean distribution, desktop environment, or window manager?
20100114 10:08:39< Eam_> A distro with a KDE window manager as flexible as KDE 3.x used to be.
20100114 10:09:32< Eam_> I don't know much about GNOME.
20100114 10:09:55< sevis> Well, Gnome and KDE aren't the only ones.
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20100114 10:11:06< Eam_> I know but they have a lot of power compared to other window managers.
20100114 10:11:16< sevis> You've got Xfce, the various *boxes...
20100114 10:11:29< sevis> Englightenment
20100114 10:13:26< Eam_> There are guys who told they used and empty window manager because they know how to make their own icons and whatnot, but something like that is totally alien for me.
20100114 10:14:49< sevis> They could make their own icons for KDE, too. I'd say the main reasons to use Openbox or similar is the simplicity of the configs.
20100114 10:15:07< Eam_> I looked at Enlightenment and Xfce just a little but I did not have any instant feel for them like I had for KDE.
20100114 10:17:01< Eam_> That is rather alien to me too.  Maybe someday I will pop up something like an Openbox user.  :)
20100114 10:19:23< Eam_> I am waiting for Wesnoth 1.8 to see if I will be able to upgrade my on Linux well enough to compile it.  It should be out soon.  :)
20100114 10:19:51< Eam_> my old Linux, etc.
20100114 10:19:53< sevis> Do you compile everything by hand?
20100114 10:20:41< Eam_> With autotools:  ./configure, make make check, and make install if all goes well.
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20100114 10:20:56< sevis> Ah, nice. I'm too lazy for that... Use portage.
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20100114 10:22:43< Eam_> I had to hack GTK to compile it for Wesnoth: I'll probably have to unravel compiling a newer gcc for the next Wesnoth.  I don't know anything about portage- is that something to do with Gentoo Linux?
20100114 10:23:05< sevis> Yeah, it's the default Gentoo way of compiling+installing things.
20100114 10:23:26< sevis> Works (on the user side) pretty much like a package manager, except you get USE flags.
20100114 10:23:39< sevis> (Allows you to compile things with or without support for something)
20100114 10:25:03< Ivanovic> portage *is* a package manager
20100114 10:25:14< Eam_> Oh.  Sounds Interesting!  :)  I am sorted rooted in using my old SuSE tho.
20100114 10:25:25< Ivanovic> just instead of installing binary packages it normally does fetch the source code and compiles the sources before installing
20100114 10:26:08< sevis> Aha, thanks.
20100114 10:26:20< sevis> Eam_, I think you could try to get portage on there, but not quite sure how well it'd work.
20100114 10:27:44< Eam_> I have left 100 meg of free space on my hard drive in case I ever find the time to attempt to learn another OS.  :)
20100114 10:27:59< sevis> Er, yeah, that'd be a problem...
20100114 10:29:22< Eam_> If I find the time I could put it in the free space and boot both OS off of Lilo or Grub.
20100114 10:29:52< sevis> You have unpartitioned space?
20100114 10:30:02< Eam_> I use Lilo tho.
20100114 10:32:31< sevis> If you want a separate Gentoo boot, you'd need to edit Lilo, yes... If you want to install portage in SuSE, you could just symlink to it.
20100114 10:32:49< Eam_> No I have the 100 meg on a partition but I know how to use SuSE's partition manager well enough to put a new OS there and then select my OS at  boot time.  It wouldn't work that way with Windows tho because Windows would overwrite the boot sector and I would lose everything.
20100114 10:34:02< sevis> I mean you could make a new partition, mount it to /portage/, then symlink /usr/portage to there.
20100114 10:37:47< Eam_> SuSE's boot manager would edit Lilo for me; Gentoo is supposed to somewhat different than other Linux's so I am not sure what would happen; that portage talk is alien to me, but would still be able to pick either linux at boot time without worrying about symlinks; I don't think I would have to symlink anything, but I alway try that way too.
20100114 10:38:40< sevis> If you install it separately, yes, no need for symlinks. And Gentoo does not automatically change your boot manager.
20100114 10:38:43< Eam_> always could try that way too.  symlinking.
20100114 10:38:48< sevis> It doesn't automatically change pretty much anything, actually.
20100114 10:39:02< sevis> One of the reasons I like it...
20100114 10:39:41< Eam_> :)
20100114 10:41:36< Eam_> I need a newer Linux but I am hanging on to my old one too.  I might try Gentoo someday.  It would make it easier to keep Wesnoth going, and I could still play around on my older Linux as well.
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20100114 10:42:51< Eam_> Does Gentoo have a good KDE?  What is its default window manager and its preferred file system?
20100114 10:43:24< sevis> Gentoo lets you choose, there's no default WM (well, there's twm, but that just comes pre-installed).
20100114 10:43:45< sevis> Neither any default filesystem, it supports the main ones.
20100114 10:44:05< sevis> The KDE is pretty good, as far as I know. Don't use it myself, but my friend has had few complaints.
20100114 10:46:43< sevis> KDE is probably vanilla, or nearly vanilla.
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20100114 10:48:09< Eam_> SuSE give extra themes for KDE; if I compiled a new QT and pefixed it to /usr/lib instead of /usr/local it would replace my old qt but I would lose have my themes.  I not much of an authority on Linux, but I have been using it for a long time now.
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20100114 10:48:33< Eam_> half my themes.
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20100114 10:49:21< sevis> You could move your themes to ~/.themes/
20100114 10:49:55< Eam_> Maybe I could get around that by symlinking.
20100114 10:51:16< Eam_> I had to symlink the boost libraries for Wesnoth to find them, because Wesnoth now only looks where one's os would put boost.
20100114 10:51:55< Eam_> The same is true of AlephOne and boost.
20100114 10:52:34< Eam_> wait I grab my notes.
20100114 10:55:58< Eam_> boost_1_39_0 compiled for me and then I gave this command:   ln -s /usr/local/include/boost-1_39/boost /usr/include     which worked for both Wesnoth and AlephOne.  :)
20100114 10:58:36< Eam_> In order to compile boost I had to compile boost-jam and then copy bjam int /usr/local/bin.
20100114 11:00:29< Eam_> Then I was able to compile boost_1_39_0 with:     bjam --toolset+gcc --build-type=complete install.   Then I gave the previous symlink and Wesnoth could find it.
20100114 11:01:49< sevis> Hm, I'm surprised you can't force Wesnoth to find it by changing one or another variable, but that looks pretty much correct.
20100114 11:01:56< Eam_> The more recent boost did not compile for me but 1_39_0 should be good enough for years to come, and one of the next boosts should have the kinks out of it.
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20100114 11:02:53< Eam_> I am not that good at changing variables; older Wesnoth used to find it in booth places.
20100114 11:04:49< Eam_> I know how to play around with the configuration options fairly well tho and sometimes I can hack my way past bad code with the editor Kate which can be set to show the line numbers.
20100114 11:05:58< sevis> There are still editors that can't do that? O_o
20100114 11:07:07< Eam_> I looked all over for one just to find out my favorite editor Kate could.  :)  I have a lot to learn!  lol
20100114 11:13:09< Eam_> (earlier was typo)  command is   bjam --toolset=gcc --build-type=complete install
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20100114 11:14:01< Eam_> the important thing was to have bjam in the boost path.
20100114 11:16:04< Eam_> Do you think there will be another beta before they come out with Wesnoth-1.8?
20100114 11:17:05< sevis> Hmm... Probably not, but I've not been watching the development too much.
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20100114 11:31:43< sevis> In any case, I've got to go now, g'bye
20100114 11:32:41< Eam_> bye
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