--- Log opened Thu Feb 25 00:00:45 2010
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20100225 00:15:54< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41383 /trunk/ (544 files in 26 dirs):
20100225 00:15:54< CIA-88> pot-update (no new/changed strings, reference update only)
20100225 00:15:54< CIA-88> regenerated doc files
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20100225 00:19:36< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41384 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby/: set svn:ignore entries via svn propedit
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20100225 00:42:56< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20100225 07:29:49< teaser> YogiHH: a late comment about the 'your turn'-dialog (and I'm only concerned with mp) I would prefer if it is the player name (and not the character name) that shows up in the dialog, wesnoth is not an RPG after all :)
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20100225 10:51:13< Ivanovic> moin
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20100225 11:58:38< Ivanovic> Soliton: should we bump the version requirement for the 1.7.x mp server?
20100225 11:59:00< Ivanovic> Soliton: cf the messages about OOS when 1.7.13 plays with "lower version": http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28948&start=0
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20100225 13:12:44< Gambit> Um. Hello. I was told I should ask here about rewriting the tutorial.
20100225 13:13:16< Espreon> Yes, for this is our sanctum...
20100225 13:13:25< Gambit> Is there anything in particular you guys want done in it?
20100225 13:14:28< Gambit> There is a thread in the ideas forum where I started discussing plans for it. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28958
20100225 13:14:36< Gambit> They've not been very popular so far.
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20100225 13:15:37< zookeeper> what i want from a new tutorial is giving the player time to do things at their own pace
20100225 13:16:07< Gambit> So then you would be in favor of breaking it into several short lessons and presenting them with a menu at the begining that allows them to choose amongst them?
20100225 13:16:08< zookeeper> instead of the current one which forces you to do action X on this turn, action Y on the next turn, etc
20100225 13:16:53< zookeeper> sure. i mean, i'd split it into something like "basics", "basic tactics", "advanced tactics", etc
20100225 13:17:42< zookeeper> actually i have a skeleton for a new tutorial which is pretty rough, although it's also pretty old by now
20100225 13:19:21< Gambit> I was planning on about 7 really short ones.The UI, Recruiting and Moving, Attacking and Villages, Defense ToD and Resistance, Experience and Advancement, Practice (which would be similar the current tutorial's level 2), and lastly an intro the multiplayer factions
20100225 13:19:38< Gambit> Well 5 really short ones and two longer ones at the end.
20100225 13:20:55< zookeeper> well, i don't care much about how things are grouped as long as the player can generally take as many turns as they want to practise each step
20100225 13:21:19< Gambit> Okay
20100225 13:21:43< zookeeper> that is, tell them how movement works, give them the means to re-read the instructions at will and then have them decide when they want to continue (for example by moving back adjacent to delfador, at which point he'll ask if you want to continue)
20100225 13:22:27< Gambit> Right now I have a scenario that pops up a message with those 7 options and (exit campaign). They'd pick one, get taken to that lesson, then at the end of it they'd be brought back to the menu again.
20100225 13:22:45< Gambit> So you want lots of "do you want me to repeat that?"/"do you want to try again?"/"do you want to keep playing?"
20100225 13:22:57< zookeeper> yes
20100225 13:23:58< Gambit> I was hoping to make the first lesson about where to find information and include screenshots. But screenshots of the right sidebar would have to be localized. Is that too much information to add to wesnoth's size?
20100225 13:24:13< zookeeper> unlike in the current tutorial, the player should actually be able to practise what they're doing instead of just following mechanical "click here", "now click here", "now click here" instructions
20100225 13:24:31< zookeeper> uh, how are you gonna display screenshots during a tutorial?
20100225 13:24:46< zookeeper> not to mention what would be the point when what you're displaying is already right there
20100225 13:24:46< Gambit> You can embed images in [message]'s.
20100225 13:24:59< Gambit> Yeah but the screenshots would have things highlighted.
20100225 13:25:08< zookeeper> and look confusing as hell
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20100225 13:29:33< Gambit> Something like this: http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt107/Grickit/villagecount.png
20100225 13:29:53< Gambit> "This displays how many villages you own out of how many total exist on the map"
20100225 13:30:46< zookeeper> i don't see why anyone would even consider displaying a screenshot in which an UI element is highlighted instead of highlighting the UI element itself
20100225 13:30:58< Gambit> You can do that?
20100225 13:31:40< zookeeper> after someone implements the possibility, of course
20100225 13:31:45< Gambit> lol
20100225 13:31:47< fendrin> hi Gambit, Espreon, zookeeper
20100225 13:31:50< zookeeper> hello
20100225 13:31:56< Espreon> Hello fendrin.
20100225 13:31:56< Gambit> Hello
20100225 13:32:09< Espreon> l,l]OJ8E
20100225 13:32:24< Espreon> ...
20100225 13:32:34< Espreon> Damn it Gregory...
20100225 13:32:46< Gambit> "putting peanut butter on my keyboard again"
20100225 13:32:48< Espreon> This is why I hate younger siblings.
20100225 13:32:48< fendrin> zookeeper: How heavy would you have to cry if the embedded map feature would be dropped?
20100225 13:33:26< zookeeper> fendrin, i find it hard to quantify
20100225 13:33:34< fendrin> :-)
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20100225 13:34:32< Gambit> Lacking implementation of highlighting UI elements, do you still think such screenshots would be "confusing as hell"?
20100225 13:35:17< Gambit> There's also the localization and file size issue...
20100225 13:35:18< zookeeper> yes
20100225 13:35:33< zookeeper> not worth the trouble
20100225 13:36:11< Gambit> So I should just explain with text and hope they are looking at the right thing and remember it? :s
20100225 13:36:16< Gambit> Okay.
20100225 13:36:40< Gambit> What "trouble" though?
20100225 13:36:41< zookeeper> anyway, another thing that might be a worthy idea in teaching where to find useful info about defense, movement values and resistances and such would be to have delfador ask you questions
20100225 13:37:21< Espreon> Do not include moar translatable images!
20100225 13:37:26< Gambit> The top bar at least would be no trouble at all.
20100225 13:37:27< Espreon> Please...
20100225 13:37:36< Gambit> Okay
20100225 13:37:43< zookeeper> like, first he explains where you can see the info, and then asks you to pick the right choice (like "what's the defense value of that troll on that mountain?", giving you a couple of options to choose from)
20100225 13:38:03< zookeeper> that way, the player can again try again and familiarize themselves with the interface at their own pace
20100225 13:38:15< Gambit> Messages are modal (I think thats the right word) so the player would not have time to highlight the troll.
20100225 13:38:19< zookeeper> ...
20100225 13:38:21< fendrin> Keep in mind that you can bring up help topics by wml now.
20100225 13:38:36< zookeeper> Gambit, then obviously i didn't mean that.
20100225 13:40:10< Gambit> @Esperon: The top bar has nothing language specific if I restrict it to turns, gold, villages, units, upkeep, income, clock, and coordinates.
20100225 13:40:32< Gambit> But that's not consistent. Nevermind.
20100225 13:40:57< Espreon> Why does everyone like to misspell my name?
20100225 13:41:07< Gambit> oops
20100225 13:41:19< Gambit> Sorry Espreon
20100225 13:41:24< fendrin> Gambit: Don't you know about tab completion?
20100225 13:41:26< Espreon> 'Tis all right. ;)
20100225 13:41:41< Gambit> Apparently no since I want to ask what it is :)
20100225 13:41:57< fendrin> Gambit: Most irc clients offer it. Just type the first few characters of a nickname and press the tabulator key.
20100225 13:42:06< Gambit> What if he asked the quiz question, and then you had to right click on him and choose "answer"
20100225 13:42:37 * fendrin is always spelling crap instead of crab.
20100225 13:43:27< krotop> isn't it hurting your relationship with the dev named that way ?
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20100225 13:54:19< fendrin> krotop: Maybe, but people know that I'm not a native english speaker.
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20100225 13:54:46< fendrin> krotop: And all of the wesnoth developers are cool and relaxed people.
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20100225 13:55:25< Espreon> fendrin: Yeah, but you really shouldn't keep using the fact that you are not a native speaker of English as an excuse...
20100225 13:56:19< fendrin> Espreon: Why not? It's not an excuse, it's a fact.
20100225 13:56:43< Espreon> ... as an excuse for mixing someone's name with a slightly vulgar word...
20100225 13:57:15< Gambit> But the fact isn't, by necessity, related to the misspellings.
20100225 13:58:45< fendrin> Espreon: Well, if it only differs in one character, it's kinda like asking for it.
20100225 13:59:29< fendrin> Espreon: And crap isn't a well known word here. I have never learned it at school. (Maybe because it is vulgar)
20100225 13:59:40< Espreon> Well, of course...
20100225 14:00:16< Espreon> «Coger» is such a lovely word outside of Spain... so... learning Spanish Spanish in America... is... yeah... fun...
20100225 14:00:44< Espreon> Test scenario in the water_animation branch + this hardware = :(
20100225 14:00:55< Espreon> Only 24 FPS...
20100225 14:00:56< Gambit> That would be a funny word to find on an english test for sure. Though phonics tests have no problem writing ass and asking you to fill in three begining sounds that make it into three different words.
20100225 14:01:39< Espreon> Oh wow... I get a very subtle effect in turn for crappier performance...
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20100225 14:02:46< Espreon> Meh, luckily I have to actually have the game focus on an area with a lot of animated water for it to become that bad.
20100225 14:03:30< Gambit> Just wait until he animates grass blowing in the wind :P
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20100225 14:04:12< Espreon> shadowmaster will probably end up smiting the one who creates that.
20100225 14:04:48< Gambit> -hushed tone- he doesn't like new features huh?
20100225 14:05:14< Espreon> No, it will result on utterly horrible performance on his machine.
20100225 14:05:20< Espreon> That is all.
20100225 14:05:26< fendrin> Espreon: Wesnoth never goes above that value even on my fast maschiene not.
20100225 14:05:56< Espreon> Even when not focusing on an area with a lot of animated water?
20100225 14:06:02< fendrin> Gambit: Yah, for animated grass.
20100225 14:06:17< krotop> Espreon: a joke that you may be victim of when you're a french going to Spain is to be asked "A tu te gustas la frances ?"
20100225 14:06:37< Espreon> Oh God...
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20100225 14:07:07< krotop> not sure He feels concerned about it
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20100225 14:09:02< Espreon> ... even though that makes little sense... but, whatever.
20100225 14:09:35< krotop> I may have spelled it wrong, been long since the last time I practiced spanish
20100225 14:09:45< Espreon> Yeah.
20100225 14:09:57< krotop> but I think you got it
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20100225 14:10:05< fendrin> shadowmaster owns a calculater with 2 cores. If wesnoth isn't able to animate the whole screen in 2d mode that is a bug that has to be fixed, no reason to not include better graphics for decates.
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20100225 14:11:45< Espreon> It would probably be something like "¿A ti te gusta la francés?"
20100225 14:11:51< Espreon> krotop: IDK.
20100225 14:11:58< Espreon> But, whatever.
20100225 14:16:27< Gambit> Odd. Having the menu move you to scenario 2 gives an unknown unit type error. But directly starting scenario 2 doesn't.
20100225 14:18:10 * Espreon wishes that boucman were here.
20100225 14:18:52< Gambit> It seems to be an issue with transfering the player's leader. :\
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20100225 14:27:57< Espreon> "20100225 08:24:52 error display: Failed to send visual notification: The name org.kde.VisualNotifications was not provided by any .service files" — Why?
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20100225 14:35:53 * Espreon loves the fact that certain drop-down menus can be dragged...
20100225 14:36:25< Espreon> Ivanovic: Around?
20100225 14:37:26< Ivanovic> depends on what is up...
20100225 14:37:44< Espreon> Do you know who implemented the desktop notifications feature?
20100225 14:38:26< Ivanovic> i don't know who is responsible for the "real" result, but i know that silene at least had a hand in those things, too
20100225 14:38:43< Espreon> Yay, I need silene for multiple things...
20100225 14:38:46< Espreon> now...
20100225 14:39:10< Ivanovic> then you should write those things with a "silene: can you help me with ABC, the problem is..."
20100225 14:39:25< Ivanovic> silene sometimes does read the logs and helps after joining
20100225 14:39:26< Ivanovic> ;)
20100225 14:39:35< Espreon> Oh OK then.
--- Log opened Thu Feb 25 14:58:09 2010
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20100225 14:58:18-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: string/feature freeze active! | 68 bugs, 251 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100225 14:58:18-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Wed Feb 24 22:42:34 2010]
20100225 14:58:18[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100225 14:58:18[ AI0867 ] [ erl ] [ happygrue] [ loonybot ] [ Sirp ]
20100225 14:58:18[ AnMaster ] [ Espreon] [ Ingmar ] [ loonycyborg ] [ Smar ]
20100225 14:58:18[ apoi ] [ esr ] [ isaac ] [ mjs-de ] [ stikonas ]
20100225 14:58:18[ Appleman1234] [ ettin ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Mythological] [ teaser ]
20100225 14:58:18[ Becquerel ] [ fendrin] [ Ken_Oh ] [ qemqemqem_ ] [ Tigge ]
20100225 14:58:18[ Chusslove ] [ freim ] [ knotwork_] [ Rhonda ] [ wesbot ]
20100225 14:58:18[ CIA-88 ] [ Gambit ] [ krotop ] [ shadowmaster] [ zookeeper]
20100225 14:58:18[ deekay ] [ Getty ] [ lobby ] [ shikadibot ]
20100225 14:58:18-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 39 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 39 normal]
20100225 14:58:18!calvino.freenode.net [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
20100225 14:58:25-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20100225 14:58:27-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100225 14:58:39< Gambit> zookeeper: Are games with only one side supposed to tell you you've been defeated as soon as you end your turn?
20100225 14:59:26-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 75 secs
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20100225 15:01:13< Ivanovic> Espreon: but you are right
20100225 15:01:21< Ivanovic> since the upgrade to kde 4.4 i also get this one:
20100225 15:01:23< Ivanovic> 20100225 15:00:36 error display: Failed to send visual notification: The name org.kde.VisualNotifications was not provided by any .service files
20100225 15:01:36< Ivanovic> (in 4.3.x i still had notifications working, like tested at fosdem)
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20100225 15:04:23< Gambit> nevermind
20100225 15:04:26< Ivanovic> could be that it is "org.kde.knotify" now
20100225 15:04:49< loonycyborg> Maybe KDE moved to freedesktop standard and KDE specific code in notifications should be dropped now.
20100225 15:05:39< Ivanovic> yes, in kde 4.4 there is org.freedesktop.Notifications
20100225 15:06:07< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: it is still required for keeping compatibility to kde 4.3 and older (which several users might rely on)
20100225 15:06:17< Ivanovic> no idea what AI0867 was using in his kde 3.5.x system
20100225 15:06:42< zookeeper> Gambit, probably
20100225 15:07:23< Gambit> No. It turned out to be a stupid mistake. No turn limit set. D:
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20100225 15:12:52< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: iirc it was problematic to detect KDE version.
20100225 15:13:25< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: yes, looks like
20100225 15:13:39< Ivanovic> currently there is just a check if one environment var is exported
20100225 15:13:46< Ivanovic> KDE_SESSION_VERSION
20100225 15:13:54< Ivanovic> sadly this one is only '4'
20100225 15:14:00< Ivanovic> so minor version added
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20100225 16:28:25< Gambit> How does translation work with pango markup?
20100225 16:28:31< Gambit> Should fancy text be avoided?
20100225 16:33:27< Espreon> Define "fancy text"?
20100225 16:33:32< Espreon> *.
20100225 16:33:52< Gambit> Bold, colored headings
20100225 16:34:41-!- sebas_ [~be2a4003@gateway/web/freenode/x-nkzyyjqhcvfcubiz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100225 16:34:48< Gambit> example: "1. The User Interface"
20100225 16:35:24< Espreon> Well, in this case, you should split the markup and the actual text.
20100225 16:35:42< Gambit> And only mark the actual text as translatable? Okay.
20100225 16:35:48< Espreon> Yes.
20100225 16:35:49< Gambit> thank you
20100225 16:35:54< Espreon> You are welcome.
20100225 16:38:03< sebas_> How do I know which find are they using in distributor.cpp, line 245, when I try to search for it I found more than 200+ results
20100225 16:38:33< Espreon> Gambit: Meh, maybe you should make the markup part of the translatable string, as there may be scripts that don't use actual boldness, but, IDK.
20100225 16:38:46< Espreon> *boldness for emphasis
20100225 16:42:52< Gambit> Actuall what I have is eg in the old syntax it was *not* always directly clear that the first char can have some effect for the whole string
20100225 17:21:27< Gambit> so then mark the whole string as translatable after all?
20100225 17:22:56< Ivanovic> if only a part of the while string has some syntax highlighting: make all of the string translateable, if everything is in a highlighted position i'd vote for splitting the string and only marking the translateable part
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20100225 17:47:03< sebas_> Hi, in dispatcher.cpp, line 245, they use a find, I was looking for that find( http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/namespacegui2_1_1event.html#da08fab4cf58b0704885ed8aaf0deebc), it says it receives 3 parameters but in the code they are only passing 1, how can this be?
20100225 17:48:17< sebas_> 3 parameters by template *
20100225 17:51:23< happygrue> is anyone interested in playing som LoW with me on the trunk server?
20100225 17:52:03< happygrue> fabi should be around also and I'd like to test the scenario carryover, as well as changing sides between players and observers
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20100225 17:55:04< fendrin> hi happygrue fendrin=fabi
20100225 17:55:29< fendrin> happygrue: I will have time in about 3 hours. Is that fine with you?
20100225 17:55:32< happygrue> fendrin: whoops. I guess I remember that now
20100225 17:55:47< happygrue> fendrin: I have to work then
20100225 17:55:57< happygrue> I have time from now for the next 3 hours :)
20100225 17:56:21< happygrue> or tomorrow I will be free also
20100225 17:57:00< fendrin> I smell some synchronization issues there. Tomorrow will be better. I don't have anything on my plan for the day. (Except c++ extrem coding of death)
20100225 17:57:34< happygrue> ok, tomorrow it is then.
20100225 17:58:37< happygrue> I'm still free now if anyone else would like to have a go.
20100225 18:00:23< Blarumyrran> trunk server = 1.7.13 server?
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20100225 18:03:23< happygrue> Blarumyrran: no, it is for SVN builds
20100225 18:03:40< happygrue> to test stuff in between development releases
20100225 18:03:46< Blarumyrran> Oh, I thought it would be the same with the feature freeze and all
20100225 18:04:14< happygrue> there are some bug fixes that I wanted to test
20100225 18:05:13< happygrue> it should be compatable, but the bug fixes arn't in 1.7.13. ;)
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20100225 19:02:32< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20100225 20:50:50< shadowmaster> fendrin: that'd be a limitation, not a bug
20100225 20:51:16< shadowmaster> it's not wesnoth's fault that redrawing half the screen using software interfaces can take that long
20100225 20:51:23< Smar> one totally irrelevant question... has wesnoth thought of merging to git or something that handles things wiser than svn?
20100225 20:52:09< shadowmaster> thought, not decided
20100225 20:52:49< Smar> yup
20100225 20:53:03< Smar> I just got bored to do yet_another_checkout
20100225 20:53:29< shadowmaster> that means yes
20100225 20:53:43< Smar> yeah, I see it :)
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20100225 20:55:12< shadowmaster> but even if it was decided, it'd not happen right now
20100225 20:55:12< shadowmaster> and you can u[B[B
20100225 20:55:37< Smar> [B?
20100225 20:55:54< Smar> you know, I just wanted to ask if wesnoth has thought about it
20100225 20:56:27< Smar> I think I could use some svn-git thingy to get proper functionality, but I’m not actually a dev, so... haven’t bothered to look about it
20100225 20:56:28< loonycyborg> Probably that was ssh lag.
20100225 20:57:12< Smar> still, it doesn’t tell what shadowmaster wanted to say ;)
20100225 20:58:36< loonycyborg> There's somewhere ready-made git-svn repo for wesnoth. It could save one some time on setting up git-svn.
20100225 21:00:29< shadowmaster> I wanted to say "and you can use git-svn to get a complete mirror of the svn repo and manage it using git"
20100225 21:00:50< shadowmaster> no idea why the rest of the message was mangled
20100225 21:02:39< Smar> loonycyborg: I don’t really need one, I’m gentoo user, so I could as well as set up one myselt
20100225 21:02:43< Smar> f*
20100225 21:02:49< Smar> it’ just about laziness
20100225 21:03:36< Soliton> gentoo users have good net connections?
20100225 21:03:42< loonycyborg> You'd be required to download gigabytes of stuff and that'll take ages.
20100225 21:03:47< Smar> shadowmaster: that’s what I’ve thought of doing, but... I’m no dev, so mos of time that’s unneeded for me
20100225 21:04:00< Smar> well, I have
20100225 21:04:05< Smar> most*
20100225 21:04:32< Smar> I just want te keep severeal builds in terms of testing available
20100225 21:05:04< Soliton> i'm using git-svn on any svn project i checkout.
20100225 21:05:23< loonycyborg> Smar: Then multiple svn checkouts will probably serve you better
20100225 21:05:30< Soliton> usually saves space for one.
20100225 21:05:32< Smar> I’ve never tried it, so hard to use it :)
20100225 21:05:50< Smar> speed savings are what I’m interested in :)
20100225 21:06:02< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: git-new-workdir helps with that, actually
20100225 21:06:11< Smar> loonycyborg: tha’s why I’m doing it for now, but git has good branch support
20100225 21:06:18< Smar> I’m deving with git myself
20100225 21:06:36< Smar> also, cloning the thing would help too
20100225 21:06:43< Smar> but with this comp wesnoth compiles in minutes
20100225 21:07:27< shadowmaster> I ran git gc --aggressive on my Wesnoth git-svn repo... took 5 hours but saved 0.7 GB
20100225 21:07:44< shadowmaster> so it's 1.3 GB instead of 2 GB now.
20100225 21:07:46< Smar> hehe
20100225 21:07:58< Smar> disk space isn’t that important for me either
20100225 21:08:07< Smar> I just want to speed up thing I do
20100225 21:08:18< Smar> agnd svn checkout is awfully sloow
20100225 21:08:21< Smar> -o
20100225 21:08:25< shadowmaster> since the repacking easily consumes 120% RAM I had to shut down everything though
20100225 21:08:36< loonycyborg> Smar: On what operations?
20100225 21:08:41< Smar> well, I have 4 cores :)
20100225 21:08:42< Smar> loonycyborg: ?
20100225 21:08:52< loonycyborg> When svn checkout is slow?
20100225 21:09:06< shadowmaster> which leads to the following question: can programs in a 32-bit system address more than 4 GB of virtual memory overall?
20100225 21:09:25< shadowmaster> at one time git repack appeared to be using 4.1 GB
20100225 21:09:30< Smar> it downloads one file at once instead of git, which downloads whole pack at once
20100225 21:09:56< loonycyborg> Smar: Since git-svn uses svn to actually fetch/commit, you won't get a speedup here.
20100225 21:10:11< Smar> loonycyborg: I’m talking about pure git here
20100225 21:10:19< Smar> +repository
20100225 21:10:33< shadowmaster> (this is a 64-bit system; I just want to know if I can use this as an excuse for sticking to 64-bit operating systems and sufferring the consequences of being unable to recompile some parts for 32-bit applications, e.g. Mesa)
20100225 21:11:09< Gambit> Is there a 64 bit wesnoth?
20100225 21:11:12< Smar> I’ve used 64 bit OS for like 3 years without problems
20100225 21:11:20< Smar> wesnoth is 64 bit, if you want
20100225 21:11:44< Soliton> shadowmaster: should only be able to address about 3GB.
20100225 21:11:58< shadowmaster> Gambit: it's written to be compiled on multiple platforms, naturally
20100225 21:12:19< Soliton> 1GB is usually for kernel space.
20100225 21:12:48< Gambit> I need to add the word binary to my previous question.
20100225 21:12:50< Gambit> ha
20100225 21:13:38< shadowmaster> the Windows binary should work on 32-bit and 64-bit amd64/em64t Windows AFAIK
20100225 21:14:32< Smar> it does work
20100225 21:14:53< Smar> windows does even for basic binaries x86 overlay
20100225 21:15:02< Smar> ...puts them to there or whatever
20100225 21:15:23< Gambit> It works fine yes, but it runs as wesnoth*32
20100225 21:15:39< Smar> and how that makes your life bad?
20100225 21:15:49< loonycyborg> Gambit: What's the point in providing 64-bit binaries?
20100225 21:15:56< Smar> want to be 64 bit windows package distributor?
20100225 21:16:15< Gambit> From what tiny understanding I have of these things 64 bit is capable of using more of my systems power if needed?
20100225 21:16:22< shadowmaster> since Wesnoth doesn't use *that* much memory, it's pretty much unrequired for Wesnoth on Window
20100225 21:16:46< Smar> 64 bit cpu just uses 64 bits at the time where 32 cpu uses only 32 bits
20100225 21:16:52< Smar> and that’s the difference
20100225 21:18:32< loonycyborg> I see no point in providing multiple versions of binary, probably only systems on which wesnoth already runs fine could use the 64-bit one.
20100225 21:19:40< loonycyborg> Maybe when 32-bit will become obsolete I'll produce 64-bit binaries instead, but that won't be soon :P
20100225 21:20:00< Smar> I just don’t care about that, as long as you don’t hinder my system(linux) down
20100225 21:21:12< loonycyborg> Although I have a 64-bit capable cpu all my OSes are still 32-bit.
20100225 21:22:14< loonycyborg> I still never got around to try 64-bit since it since I'm not sure whether there will be any difference.
20100225 21:22:24< Smar> mine aren’t, because there is no point for it.
20100225 21:22:47< Smar> 22.16.46 < Smar> 64 bit cpu just uses 64 bits at the time where 32 cpu uses only 32 bits
20100225 21:22:59< Smar> so I don’t see any reason for not to use 64 bit OSes
20100225 21:23:08< grzywacz> Having 4 gigs of ram using a 32 bit system would be a stupid waste for me. ;)
20100225 21:23:08< shadowmaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amd64#Architectural_features
20100225 21:23:33< Smar> linux’s kernel can emulate on 32 bit os for 64GB ram too
20100225 21:23:43< shadowmaster> I guess that the ability to address more virtual memory is the real point in any case
20100225 21:23:44< Smar> but it,’s just pointless
20100225 21:23:49< Gambit> Having 8 gigs of ram and using a 32 bit system would be a stupid waste for me. ;)
20100225 21:23:57< shadowmaster> Smar: um, right
20100225 21:24:23< grzywacz> Gambit, well.. actually, it should still be possible to use it with PAE or something.
20100225 21:24:35< grzywacz> Gambit, the 3GB limit is "just" per process.
20100225 21:25:18< shadowmaster> I did notice a performance difference between 32-bit and 64-bit openSUSE 10.3 (unmodified kernel) in two different machines, anyway
20100225 21:25:40< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Which one was faster? :P
20100225 21:25:40< wesbot> loonycyborg: Sometimes we are fast
20100225 21:25:50< shadowmaster> the laptop, using some AMD Athlon64, and running native 64-bit openSUSE
20100225 21:25:53< Gambit> Wesbot can talk. :O
20100225 21:26:12< shadowmaster> the desktop got slower instead, but it is using a Intel Pentium 4 with an early implementation of EM64T
20100225 21:26:19< grzywacz> wesbot, hug Gambit
20100225 21:26:19 * wesbot hugs Gambit
20100225 21:26:23< Gambit> LOL
20100225 21:26:33< Gambit> Is there a documented commands list?
20100225 21:26:41< Gambit> wesbot, poke shadowmaster
20100225 21:26:44< Gambit> darn
20100225 21:26:46< shadowmaster> Gambit: /query wesbot help
20100225 21:28:47 * fendrin kicks wesbot
20100225 21:36:56< Gambit> So what triggered him to talk earlier?
20100225 21:37:34< fendrin> Gambit: the right syntax
20100225 21:37:55< Gambit> Which one was faster? :P
20100225 21:37:55< wesbot> Gambit: Sometimes we are fast
20100225 21:38:03< Gambit> weird.
20100225 21:38:10< grzywacz> It's wesbot. Don't expect normal.
20100225 21:38:30< Gambit> Tutorial menu is done. Put off scenario one right now. scenario 2 is ~80%
20100225 21:40:57 * loonycyborg needs to remember not to say the f* word :P
20100225 21:41:37-!- grzywacz is now known as faster
20100225 21:41:43< faster> ;-)
20100225 21:42:05< shadowmaster> fendrin: being able to see what the sound source radii are, basically. As I said before, perhaps a yellow dashed circumference around the "full-volume" radius, and a white one around the fade-out radius.
20100225 21:42:14< shadowmaster> Of course, being able to set all the other parameters is pretty much mandatory
20100225 21:42:17-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100225 21:43:22-!- faster is now known as grzywacz
20100225 22:04:58< fendrin> shadowmaster: Do you want an image overlay like the white mage halo or highlighted hexes?
20100225 22:08:15< fendrin> shadowmaster: I will add persistence of human changes in that tag. Do you want to discuss the presentation type in more detail?
20100225 22:08:20< shadowmaster> yeah, I forgot that wesnoth uses hexes... :/
20100225 22:08:47< shadowmaster> I don't feel able to discuss much atm. The connection is horribly unstable here
20100225 22:09:00-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100225 22:09:42< fendrin> shadowmaster: I guess hexes would be more precise, but being not that nice to look at.
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20100225 23:03:15< Gambit> Update on tutorial for interested parties: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=411979#p411979
20100225 23:03:24< Gambit> Menu and lesson 2 are completed
20100225 23:07:39< Crab_> Gambit: interesting
20100225 23:08:20< Gambit> Good interesting?
20100225 23:09:25-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100225 23:11:24< Crab_> I'll take a look :)
20100225 23:13:01< Gambit> Like I said, only the second lesson is implemented.
20100225 23:13:06< Crab_> yes, I see
20100225 23:13:11< Gambit> Still deciding how to go about the first.
20100225 23:14:13< Crab_> firstly, why sometimes you require player to click 'yes' and sometimes to click 'no' in the instructions ? :)
20100225 23:15:53< Crab_> i.e. "Did you get all that? => yes; Would you like me to repeat an of that => No"
20100225 23:16:13< Gambit> Make sure they're paying attention I guess
20100225 23:16:18< Gambit> It is a tutorial.
20100225 23:16:27< Gambit> And for a little variance.
20100225 23:16:32< Crab_> ok
20100225 23:16:42< Gambit> I can switch it though.
20100225 23:17:03 * Gambit is going afk
20100225 23:17:17 * Gambit will read logs
20100225 23:17:38-!- allefant [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100225 23:19:41< Crab_> then, the message about 'oops, I forgot to tell something - when units are first recruited, they have 0 moves' sometimes comes a bit too late - after user has already clicked end turn after recruiting, and his units can already move'
20100225 23:20:41< Crab_> then, I've managed to break it a bit by using :cl - after :cl, I was able to recruit all 3 unit types from the start, which led to further issues.
20100225 23:21:47< Crab_> then, I can move Yue to 1,2 without completing the lesson. As Yue is a 'unit', this might confuse the player.
20100225 23:22:17< Crab_> the menu is nice. what do you think about making 'Exit tutorial' a bit different in appearance ?
20100225 23:23:49-!- yann [~dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100225 23:24:03< Crab_> then, the objective says 'recruit a spearman and a horseman' but, it's impossible to recruit a horseman before spearman is recruited. so, the objective can be only fulfilled by recruiting them in correct order
20100225 23:26:41< Crab_> then, if you move a unit (say, your initial leader, or a spearman) to 1,2, lesson ends. this is bad, because the objective says "practice moving your units around" and doesn't mention anything about moving to 1,2
20100225 23:27:49< Crab_> then, if you forget 'how to do something' (quite possible, e.g. if you're distracted by a phone call in the middle of playing tutorial), there's no way to ask Yue to reiterate anything that she has said before.
20100225 23:28:49< Crab_> 'able to recruit all 3 unit types from the start' is possible even without :cl, if you complete the scenario and play it again
20100225 23:31:11< Crab_> then, you don't mention unkeep and you don't give the player any extra income to offset it, so it's possible to 'get into negative money' even if you want to recruit some more units
20100225 23:31:56< Crab_> then, some more move-related dialogs are needed (about movement costs, about grabbing villages, etc)
20100225 23:32:04< Crab_> but, overall, it's nice :)
20100225 23:32:05< Crab_> thanks :)
20100225 23:32:26-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100225 23:48:22< Gambit> what is :cl?
20100225 23:49:00< shadowmaster> change level
20100225 23:49:16< shadowmaster> switch scenario, if you wish
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20100225 23:52:13< Gambit> resetting variables at the begining of the scenario will fix most of that.
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 26 00:00:04 2010