--- Log opened Fri Feb 26 00:00:04 2010
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20100226 00:42:50< Gambit> Crab: I don't know if you'll see this later or not, but I fixed everything you mentioned except for teaching them about villages since that will be in lesson 3.
20100226 00:48:59< Gambit> Which will be done tomorow hopefully. It or lesson 1.
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20100226 01:20:42< Sapient> wesbot: seen Mythological
20100226 01:20:42< wesbot> Sapient: Queried user Mythological is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20100226 01:21:01< Sapient> Mythological: hi, were you looking for me?
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20100226 01:33:06< Gambit> neat
20100226 01:40:09< Sapient> hi Gambit
20100226 01:40:13< Sapient> what is neat?
20100226 01:40:18< Gambit> Wesbot
20100226 01:41:08< Sapient> wesbot: hug Gambit
20100226 01:41:08 * wesbot hugs Gambit
20100226 02:00:17< AI0867> silene: apparently, KDE 4.4 uses the same notifications system as KDE 3.5 and thus, fails to work with wesnoth
20100226 02:00:47< AI0867> I have no idea how to differentiate between 4.[0-3] and 4.4 though
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20100226 02:10:01< shadowmaster> okay, I didn't know game servers could also be in /usr/games *shrug*
20100226 02:10:36< shadowmaster> civserver...I have freeciv installed and I forgot
20100226 02:15:07< fendrin> I have a virtual method that is used in the same class. The linker tells me: "libwesnoth-game.a(display.cpp.o):(.rodata._ZTV7display[vtable for display]+0x18): undefined reference to `display::get_const_units() const'"
20100226 02:15:59< fendrin> But isn't the whole point of a virtual method that it is not implemented at that time?
20100226 02:16:08< shadowmaster> no, that would be a *pure virtual* method
20100226 02:16:41< fendrin> shadowmaster: Can you explain the difference to me?
20100226 02:16:55< shadowmaster> I'd honestly throw a C++ book at you if I had one handy :)
20100226 02:17:05< fendrin> I have the soustroup.
20100226 02:17:07< shadowmaster> I'm not very good at explaining things
20100226 02:17:23< fendrin> shadowmaster: Okay, don't mind. I will consult the book.
20100226 02:17:28< shadowmaster> pure virtual methods are defined like in class foo { public: void pure_virtual_bar() = 0; };
20100226 02:17:35< Sirp> fendrin: do you know Java?
20100226 02:17:49< Sirp> a pure virtual method is the same as an abstract method in Java.
20100226 02:17:52< fendrin> Sirp: Yes, much better than c++
20100226 02:18:25< Sirp> fendrin: a non-virtual method in C++ is similiar to a final method in Java
20100226 02:18:36< Sirp> a virtual method in C++ is similiar to a regular method in Java
20100226 02:18:53< Sirp> a pure virtual method in C++ is similiar to an abstract method in Java
20100226 02:19:35< shadowmaster> Java sounds like an alien language to me ;)
20100226 02:19:51< loonycyborg> Virtual method calls are resolved based on dynamic type of the object. That is the difference from non-virtual methods.
20100226 02:19:53< fendrin> Sirp: A final method in java can't be overwritten anymore. but I do overwrite non-virtual c++ methods all the time.
20100226 02:20:09< Sirp> fendrin: yes, that is the one difference.
20100226 02:20:27< shadowmaster> note that a C++ class mehtod, once virtual, is always virtual in classes that inherit from that class
20100226 02:20:36< Sirp> fendrin: you almost nver want to actually do that. 
20100226 02:21:13< Sirp> fendrin: if you overwrite a non-virtual method, then when you call the method the version of the method that is called will depend on the type of the pointer or reference through which you call it.
20100226 02:22:03< fendrin> And if missing it will just call super.method()
20100226 02:22:16< Sirp> fendrin: if we have, A* a; and we go a->f(); ... if f() is declared in A as virtual then the version of the method being called might be A::f() or it might be of a class derived from A. If it is non-virtual it WILL be A::f() that is called.
20100226 02:23:23< fendrin> Sirp: I begin to get it.
20100226 02:24:36< fendrin> "<Sirp> fendrin: you almost nver want to actually do that. " Use pure virtual methods?
20100226 02:27:28< loonycyborg> Overwrite non-virtual methods more likely..
20100226 02:28:03< shadowmaster> yeah
20100226 02:30:50< fendrin> Okay, now it's working. Thank you all!
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20100226 02:38:27< fendrin> unit_map does not have a to_config, write or read method. Am I better going to fix that or how are unit_maps serialized?
20100226 02:40:50< fendrin> I guess it's missing because unit_maps are never written to a file in a whole but splitted into the teams.
20100226 02:40:58< Sirp> fendrin: right, pretend that a regular (non-virtual) method in C++ is declared final in Java with a crappy compiler that doesn't catch that you're not meant to overwrite it properly
20100226 02:43:31< fendrin> Sirp: Good to know. It's strange that my faulty code still works for me. I need to review all contributed code regarding the issue.
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20100226 10:47:25< Ivanovic> moin
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20100226 11:40:24< fendrin> Hello. Setting units on the editor map works now partly, they are drawn in the minimap but still not visible on the field. Anyone around who knows the unit's drawing code?
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20100226 13:13:32< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen silene
20100226 13:13:32< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick silene last spoke 1d 16h ago.  1d 16h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20100226 14:21:39< boucman> hey all
20100226 14:33:37< Gambit> Good morning
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20100226 14:42:47< zookeeper> boucman, about the snow castle; i worked on it a bit when he originally posted the tiles, but i wanted to add them so that they'd just be used for the normal castle when adjacent to snow, but i never found a perfect way.
20100226 14:43:30< boucman> ok,so not a new terrain just when next to snow...
20100226 14:43:56< zookeeper> that's how i figured it should be included
20100226 14:44:15< zookeeper> of course it could be a new terrain too, but whatever
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20100226 14:44:33< boucman> hmm
20100226 14:44:50< boucman> new terrain allows better control from the user...
20100226 14:44:59< boucman> and we'll add som terrains for 1.8 
20100226 14:45:07< boucman> so it's as you wish...
20100226 14:46:36< zookeeper> i have a bit of time right now, so give me a moment and i'll check it out
20100226 14:46:49< zookeeper> i've lost my local WML changes enabling it, but i think i can rewrite it pretty quickly..
20100226 14:47:23< boucman> zookeeper: np, could you commit to the animation branch if/when it's ok ?
20100226 14:47:34< boucman> (or post what's needed if you don't want to check out that branch
20100226 14:48:20< zookeeper> i'll rather post it, i don't have a checkout for that branch
20100226 14:48:27< boucman> ok
20100226 14:56:45< Ivanovic> if it was a completely new terrain it would add a new string
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20100226 14:58:37< zookeeper> not if it was just "castle"
20100226 14:59:15< boucman> Ivanovic: if it's a new terrain it's 1.9
20100226 14:59:27< Ivanovic> jupp
20100226 14:59:27< boucman> unlike what I wrote a couple of lines earlier :P
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20100226 15:03:21< zookeeper> boucman, i think i've more or less reproduced what i had for the snowy castles earlier, but i'll tinker with it a bit before posting..
20100226 15:03:32< boucman> sure, take your time
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20100226 15:19:54< fendrin> hi boucman, are you the expert for unit drawing?
20100226 15:20:14< boucman> fendrin: i'm not an artist :P
20100226 15:20:39< boucman> yes, i rewrote the anim engine in 1.4/1.6 and maintained it since
20100226 15:21:33< fendrin> boucman: I currently try to lift the unit drawing from game_display to display.
20100226 15:21:46< boucman> ok
20100226 15:22:07< Ivanovic> ehm, is this really a good thing to do?
20100226 15:22:19< boucman> Ivanovic: it's needed if the editor must draw units
20100226 15:22:31< Ivanovic> everyone: just sent a mail to the dev-ml regarding gsoc 2010
20100226 15:22:35< fendrin> to let the editor_display  and game_display inherit the code
20100226 15:22:38< Ivanovic> please do reply and act accordingly
20100226 15:22:53< Ivanovic> boucman: we have not come to a decission yet if placing units with the editor is wanted!
20100226 15:23:39< boucman> Ivanovic: yes I agree on that, i personally think placing a unit without some WML behind to handle it doesn't really make sense
20100226 15:23:53< boucman> I was just explaining why fendrin would be interested
20100226 15:24:04< Ivanovic> thats why i still vote for not doing it
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20100226 15:40:31< fendrin> boucman: My infrastructure is already in place. After lifting what I thought is the actual drawing code I get the units displayed in the minimap but not on a hexfield. Would you mind to give me rough walkthrough how units are drawn?  
20100226 15:41:13< zookeeper> boucman, ok, i think i've got it pretty close to how i wanted it...but it's really ugly code and doesn't work perfectly
20100226 15:41:21< CIA-88> zookeeper * r41385 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/util.cfg: Changed the FLAG_IF_ADJACENT macro to be more comprehensible. Breaks existing usage, but probably there isn't any.
20100226 15:42:51< zookeeper> boucman, just paste this at line 387 in terrain-graphics.cfg: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/tCN0cCNR
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20100226 15:43:25< zookeeper> (between 386/387)
20100226 15:44:14< zookeeper> it works mostly exactly as i'd like, except that a castle will still be drawn as snowy even if the snow is actually 1 hex away, not adjacent
20100226 15:44:28< zookeeper> but that could be fixed by hacking the parameters a bit more, i think :P
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20100226 15:48:34< boucman> zookeeper: did you commit to trunk on purpose ? I'd rather keep changes in teh animation branch
20100226 15:48:55< boucman> fendrin: i'll do my best, but I'm better with the animation layers than the drawing layers
20100226 15:49:37< boucman> wesbot: log 41385
20100226 15:49:38< wesbot> zookeeper * r41385 : Changed the FLAG_IF_ADJACENT macro to be more comprehensible. Breaks existing usage, but probably there isn't any.
20100226 15:49:41< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=41385
20100226 15:49:54< zookeeper> boucman, yeah, it's on purpose, the macro looked broken and silly
20100226 15:51:00< boucman> ok, your version makes more sense...
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20100226 15:51:36< zookeeper> i find it pretty _unlikely_ that any UMC would be using that macro
20100226 15:52:07< boucman> zookeeper: no mainline use, I suppose...
20100226 15:52:12< zookeeper> correct
20100226 15:55:29< boucman> zookeeper: I don't like the way you use has_flag= in the parameters, but that's just a little cleanup...
20100226 15:59:45< boucman> zookeeper: note that ther is a castle-tile and a keep-tile in there, so it seems the original author wanted to make a new terrain out of it...
20100226 16:01:16< boucman> hmm
20100226 16:01:38< boucman> castles on normal grass are snowy with your macros (at least here... looking what's going on
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20100226 16:02:51< boucman> zookeeper: my bad, I badly copied the macros
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20100226 16:08:45< boucman> zookeeper: i'd rather have it as a new terrain, i'm not very confident that the guessing logic can be made reliable enough and that no users will ever want to have it separate
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20100226 16:19:41< zookeeper> boucman, yeah, i don't mind the new terrain idea
20100226 16:20:02< boucman> ok, i'll integrate that way in that case...
20100226 16:20:15< boucman> feel free to dig more terrains/transitions out of the forum :P
20100226 16:20:31< zookeeper> i'd still _prefer_ if the guessing logic was made to work right, but...
20100226 16:21:22< boucman> guessing logic prevents users from having exceptions (magic castle in middle of snow)
20100226 16:21:37< zookeeper> sure
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20100226 16:47:32< boucman> zookeeper: ok, it seems to work
20100226 16:49:56< CIA-88> boucman * r41386 /branches/water_animation/ (56 files in 4 dirs): new terrain type : snowy terrain Cha and Kha
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20100226 17:18:33< boucman> Ivanovic: when was 1.6 release ?
20100226 17:18:35< boucman> released
20100226 17:24:48< Gambit> March 22nd
20100226 17:24:51< boucman> thx
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20100226 19:29:43< Crab_> Gambit: ok, thanks
20100226 19:30:20< Gambit> ?
20100226 19:30:38< Crab_> ..., but I fixed everything you mentioned .... (c) Gambit
20100226 19:30:45< Gambit> Ah okay.
20100226 19:31:57< Gambit> As soon as I get my economics project done I'm going to work on lesson 3. I did a map up this morning. Then I'll update the zip with lesson 3 + bug fixes for 2.
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20100226 19:37:47< fendrin> Darn, I want to see the units.
20100226 19:39:20< Gambit> Forgive me if this sounds ignorant but: Does the map editor really have to draw the units as it would in the game? Can't it use the same method you're using for items and just place a still image?
20100226 19:39:31 * Gambit hides
20100226 19:39:43< Crab_> a good question, actually :)
20100226 20:00:20< fendrin> Gambit: Yeah, thought about that. But I would have to duplicate code for drawing the different facings, the units in the minimap, the bars and the overlay that marks leaders. 
20100226 20:04:57< Gambit> Ah. Sorry. Hadn't thought of that. TC too?
20100226 20:05:48< Crab_> fendrin: btw, you said that you wanted some help on c++ side, to write something for your editor branch .
20100226 20:05:59< Crab_> fendrin: so, I have some time today
20100226 20:06:49< fendrin> Gambit: Yes, TC is another example.
20100226 20:07:08< fendrin> Crab_: cool, let's see what can be done. Give me a minute.
20100226 20:10:51< Crab_> fendrin: btw, what do you think about wrapping your plans for editor as a gsoc project and mentoring it ?
20100226 20:10:52< fendrin> Crab_: I am currtently working on lifting the unit drawing code from game_display to display. That is half finished, you can place units in the editor, they are saved to the map file but not reloaded. 
20100226 20:11:12< fendrin> Crab_: There is not much left to do.
20100226 20:12:30< fendrin> Crab_: One can see the placed units in the minimap but it is not shown on the hex. So gui and backend is all there only the unit itself missing.
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20100226 20:13:03< fendrin> Crab_: Another field is the game itself, it isn't able to load the new map format.
20100226 20:14:35< Crab_> and what do you want me to fix ? save\load issues ?
20100226 20:15:25< CIA-88> fendrin * r41387 /branches/fendrin_editor/ (21 files in 3 dirs): Unit placement.
20100226 20:16:37< fendrin> Crab_: Do you want to implement the processing of the map tag in the engine?
20100226 20:17:33< fendrin> Crab_: That is not a fix since no work is done on that part. 
20100226 20:17:47< Crab_> well, i can try
20100226 20:19:32< fendrin> Crab_: The editor's map loading is a hack. The best solution I can think of is enhancing the game_map to read the config.
20100226 20:20:05< fendrin> Crab_: That would allow to use your work for the editor as well. 
20100226 20:20:27< fendrin> Or parts of it.
20100226 20:21:01< fendrin> Do you already have the branch?
20100226 20:22:02< fendrin> If so, have a look at your target, it's in data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/Lintanir.map.
20100226 20:24:42< CIA-88> fendrin * r41388 /branches/fendrin_editor/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: testcase for the engine.
20100226 20:25:10< Crab_> ok, I'll check the branch now
20100226 20:27:49< Crab_> ok, done
20100226 20:28:25< fendrin> 01 the uprooting is prepared to include the file with the map tag. If it starts cool if it evaluates the extra tags better.
20100226 20:28:57< Crab_> ok, I see those extra tags
20100226 20:29:14< Crab_> you want them loaded and appended to level config as part of map load ?
20100226 20:29:40< Crab_> (probably by wrapping them in 'prestart' event)
20100226 20:29:42< fendrin> Crab_: Not all. The label will work on scenario toplevel, lifting it there is a solution.
20100226 20:30:37< fendrin> The named area is not known  by the engine at all.
20100226 20:31:11< fendrin> [units] are not recognized at [scenario] toplevel, they could go in a prestart event.
20100226 20:31:43< Crab_> it's actually better to inject them to [side] tags...
20100226 20:32:23< fendrin> yes
20100226 20:32:48< Crab_> but it'll work either way (as [unit] in side and prestart behaves the same)
20100226 20:33:10< Crab_> is there a c++ object which corresponds to named_area ? i.e., where they should be saved after parsing ?
20100226 20:33:22< fendrin> Crab_: I have coded a container for the named areas, it should be usable in the engine.
20100226 20:34:30< fendrin> that container (look at area_map or map_area) can go into a manager for doing the persistence.
20100226 20:36:35< fendrin> map_area.hpp at toplevel.
20100226 20:36:40< Crab_> ok
20100226 20:37:39< fendrin> Crab_: You can see how I handle the [map] in the constructor of the editor/map_context class but that is still a hack.
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20100226 20:45:55< fendrin> Crab_: Please lift the "usage= and border_size= from the map_data string to attributes of map.
20100226 20:53:06< CIA-88> caslav_ilic * r41389 /trunk/doc/manual/images/it/main-menu-1.5.11.jpg: Updated localized images for Italian.
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20100226 21:01:16< Salwan> Hello everyone :)
20100226 21:04:54-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100226 21:05:06< Salwan> I am working on wesnoth using VS9, who maintains the solution file for VS9? I discovered that many code files are not included into the solution file causing annoying linking errors
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20100226 21:05:22< Salwan> this of course in case of VS9 still being supported and not dropped or anything
20100226 21:05:44< Crab_> Salwan: submit a patch, please
20100226 21:06:56-!- Noyga [~noyga@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100226 21:09:14< Salwan> Crab_: just a question, a whole folder (gui/auxiliary/widget_definition) is not included in the source tree (44 files)
20100226 21:09:19< Salwan> where should it be in the source tree?
20100226 21:09:53< Crab_> with main part of wesnoth sources, e.g. with ai
20100226 21:09:59< Salwan> currently I'm setup a new filter (Gui/Auxiliary/Widget_Definition), is that ok?
20100226 21:10:04< Crab_> ok
20100226 21:10:30< Salwan> great, I'll clean up a few things and create a patch as soon as possible
20100226 21:10:35< Crab_> ok
20100226 21:10:51< Salwan> so I take it no one is maintaining the VS9 solution?
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20100226 21:11:50< Crab_> Salwan: no one actively does so atm, although I was recently thinking about bringing it up to date...
20100226 21:12:02< shadowmaster> I thought ilor was the last maintainer
20100226 21:12:35< Crab_> shadowmaster: yes, but he recently said that he switched from MSVC
20100226 21:12:48< shadowmaster> oh, nice!
20100226 21:12:49< Crab_> YogiHH is still using it, afair
20100226 21:12:50< shadowmaster> er, I mean, oh, not nice :(
20100226 21:14:03< Salwan> I heard "rumors" that building using VS produces unstable binaries
20100226 21:14:40< Salwan> buggy binaries
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20100226 21:44:18< Soliton> Ivanovic: do you know if the 1.7.13 incompatibility is because of the neutral leader bug?
20100226 21:44:32< fendrin> Crab_: I am away for a short while
20100226 21:44:35< Crab_> ok
20100226 21:44:50< Ivanovic> re
20100226 21:44:52< Ivanovic> Soliton: no idea
20100226 21:44:54< Ivanovic> no idea at all
20100226 21:45:04< Ivanovic> i just know that it seems to be there
20100226 21:45:25< Soliton> http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=411089#p411089
20100226 21:45:34< Ivanovic> though i would not feel too depressed if we disallow anything <1.7.13 when i release 1.7.14
20100226 21:45:47< Soliton> sounds like we have to exclude 1.7.13 once 14 is out.
20100226 21:46:03< Ivanovic> is this bug already fixed?
20100226 21:46:09< Soliton> i think so.
20100226 21:46:17< Ivanovic> if it is, please make sure to mention it in the release notes!
20100226 21:46:49< Soliton> Crab_: do you know more? ^
20100226 21:46:49< stikonas> are you going to release 1.7.14 this weekend?
20100226 21:46:55< Ivanovic> stikonas: i hope so
20100226 21:47:34< Crab_> Soliton: I know about https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15429, that is :)
20100226 21:48:24< Crab_> note the priority and fix time :)
20100226 21:49:21< shadowmaster> I wasn't expecting to find the cause/fix it that soon
20100226 21:49:28< Soliton> shadowmaster: wanna add something to the relese notes?
20100226 21:49:35< shadowmaster> sure
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20100226 21:56:09< CIA-88> shadowmaster * r41390 /trunk/players_changelog: Edited and moved changelog entry for r40928
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20100226 22:01:11< CIA-88> shadowmaster * r41391 /trunk/ (RELEASE_NOTES changelog): Edited changelog entry for r40928, and added a release notes entry
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20100226 22:04:06< CIA-88> shadowmaster * r41392 /trunk/players_changelog: Moved yet another misplaced changelog entry of mine...
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20100226 22:07:02< Ivanovic> i hope that mordante will find some time this weekend to fix the last stuff for the lobby, so that this can be the last beta
20100226 22:07:13< Ivanovic> maybe a week later the first rc (if the beta does work nicely!)
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20100226 22:19:05< noy> Ivanovic: co administrator at your service :p
20100226 22:19:15< Ivanovic> noy: cool!
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20100226 22:41:25< fendrin> Crab_: re
20100226 22:41:28< Gambit> I noticed earlier that you were discussing placing map editor placed units in prestart events, will the map editor be able to load units placed in prestart events when loading scenarios?
20100226 22:41:46< fendrin> Gambit: no
20100226 22:42:11< Gambit> :s How will it tell them apart?
20100226 22:42:51< Gambit> Eh nevermind
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 27 00:00:12 2010