--- Log opened Sun Feb 28 00:00:23 2010
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20100228 00:05:40< fendrin> Crab_: Are you still working on the editor branch?
20100228 00:06:11< Crab_> yes, I will spend some more time on it tomorrow
20100228 00:06:52< CIA-88> fendrin * r41410 /branches/fendrin_editor/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Some of the unit drawing restored.
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20100228 01:20:33< AI0867> mordante: ttree_view_node::get_indention_level() seems to have a logic error: it checks for the node's parent while that node *is* the root
20100228 01:21:05< AI0867> can't test it because another failed assertion
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20100228 09:05:07< CIA-88> silene * r41411 /trunk/src/titlescreen.cpp: Scaled titlescreen logo according to the available space. (Fix for bug #15501.)
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20100228 09:06:05< Ivanovic> moin
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20100228 09:41:40< Crab_> hi
20100228 09:51:46< boucman> morning
20100228 09:53:34< Crab_> hi, boucman. What do you think about trying to get a list of potential gsoc projects up-to-date today ?
20100228 09:53:44< boucman> sounds good to me
20100228 09:54:27< Crab_> I've already filled in the names and very short descriptions of two things that I was thinking about, in the wiki http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
20100228 09:54:35< boucman> already there :)
20100228 09:55:23< Crab_> afair, there was also idea about network layer rewrite using something like boost:asio
20100228 09:55:59< Ivanovic> from the old list "Extending the Multiplayer server" and "Savegame reorganization" are done
20100228 09:56:19< Ivanovic> IMO "Implement campaign statistics reports on stats.wesnoth.org" should not be listed again
20100228 09:56:39< boucman> agreed
20100228 09:57:02< Ivanovic> and "Optimize implementation of WML for memory usage" was basically a failure, too
20100228 09:57:03< boucman> Crab_: i'm updating the EasyCoding in the mean time, so we don't collide
20100228 09:57:06< Crab_> ok
20100228 09:57:08< Ivanovic> no idea if we should list it again
20100228 09:59:03< Crab_> Ivanovic: "Implement campaign statistics reports on stats.wesnoth.org" (and all such "infrastructure" things) is a very mentor-dependent thing. If mentor knows the toolchain that the student uses for creating the stats infastructure, and is very strict about actually 'documenting' and 'integrating' it, the project will work.
20100228 09:59:24< Ivanovic> Crab_: the problem is that we already had it twice as project
20100228 09:59:30< Ivanovic> the first time was a complete failure
20100228 09:59:39< Crab_> Ivanovic: what happened the first time ? (I know about the second one)
20100228 09:59:44< Ivanovic> the 2nd was "yeah, we got a result, but, uhm, noone uses it"
20100228 10:00:07< Ivanovic> the student was there till the middle (not very active) and after mid term left completely
20100228 10:00:45< Ivanovic> the main problem is that we don't have a dev feeling responsible for the project to maintain it later on
20100228 10:01:31< Crab_> Exactly. I'd even say that the project need to be started *without* the student, so the student will need to 'fill in the gaps', not start from scratch.
20100228 10:01:37< Crab_> so, there's no reason to list it now, yes.
20100228 10:01:51< Ivanovic> like i said "not a project we should list!"
20100228 10:02:52< Crab_> the addon server is a same thing - we need a 'responsible person' on our side to try it.
20100228 10:03:09< Ivanovic> i think mordante would feel responsible somehow
20100228 10:03:09< Crab_> as it's somewhat easier, but it's still an infrastructure thing
20100228 10:03:19< Ivanovic> he already mentioned that he might eventually rewrite it himself
20100228 10:03:32< Crab_> would he be willing to mentor it ?
20100228 10:03:36< Ivanovic> and the addon server has to be low maintainance
20100228 10:03:48< Ivanovic> as in "start, make sure it runs and that's it"
20100228 10:06:18< Ivanovic> regarding mentoring: before i wrote my mail mordante stated that he would probably like to mentor, but so far he has not pinged me after the mail
20100228 10:06:49< boucman> Ivanovic: do you think my new alliance system coud be a SoC ?
20100228 10:06:59< Ivanovic> boucman: yeah, i think so
20100228 10:07:10< boucman> ok, i'll add it
20100228 10:07:11< Crab_> ok, so, then, I guest that we'll list 'addon server' if Mordante says that he'll mentor it.
20100228 10:07:19< boucman> Crab_: you're writing the page right now ?
20100228 10:07:30< Ivanovic> requires some planning and working with wml people to integrate it well, but should be a possible project regarding the amount of work
20100228 10:07:31< Crab_> boucman: done
20100228 10:15:38< boucman> done
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20100228 10:17:22< Crab_> what about 'WML validation schemes'  idea ? should it be relisted ?
20100228 10:19:36< Crab_> e.g. the implementation might look like: "add a new command-line option to wesnoth to load and preprocess the specific part of config tree, adding debug information, and dumping the result to file system" + "analyze said dump with wmllint/other tools to find out any problem"
20100228 10:23:11< Ivanovic> no idea
20100228 10:23:12< silene> Crab_: this is hardly a SoC, the first part is a 5 minutes job
20100228 10:23:28< Ivanovic> depends on if we got a mentor for wml validation
20100228 10:24:37< boucman> anybody knows the status of fr 8106 ? it's in easy coding, but seems to have been there for years
20100228 10:25:36< Crab_> silene: yes, but we can add neat things like 'create a WML schema for wesnoth in such a way which allows the schema to be exported to various formats such as emacs autocompletion files, or to wiki documentation'
20100228 10:27:06< Crab_> silene: and note that 'adding debug information' part will require changing wesnoth WML preprocessor to add such info - to allow to trace macro expansions to their positions in the WML source.
20100228 10:27:20< Ivanovic> boucman: no idea
20100228 10:27:40< Ivanovic> boucman: maybe fendrin has an idea, since this is something most likely required for mp campaign stuff
20100228 10:27:48< boucman> ok
20100228 10:29:10< zookeeper> Ivanovic, do you know when you're planning on tagging the next release?
20100228 10:29:24< Ivanovic> zookeeper: either later today or tomorrow
20100228 10:29:38< Ivanovic> i hope that mordante will maybe commit one or two fixes
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20100228 10:34:04< zookeeper> ok
20100228 10:34:25< silene> Crab_: it already does that
20100228 10:34:34< fendrin> Hello
20100228 10:34:43< boucman> hey fendrin
20100228 10:34:54< boucman> fendrin: any idea on the status of fr 8106 ?
20100228 10:35:07< silene> Crab_: what you are describing was  working 5 years ago, but then someone disabled it (i don't know why)
20100228 10:35:12< Crab_> silene: interesting. has anyone tried to run wmllint on the 'macroexpanded' version of mainline ?
20100228 10:35:43< silene> Crab_: yes, or rather the ancestor of wmllint
20100228 10:35:52< Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, Chusslove, Crab_, esr, ettin, fendrin, Noyga, shadowmaster, silene, Soliton, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: can i release 1.7.14 (beta7) today or is there any blocker?
20100228 10:36:03< boucman> ok here
20100228 10:36:04< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok
20100228 10:36:09< zookeeper> ok, i guess
20100228 10:36:11< fendrin> Ivanovic: fine
20100228 10:36:17< Noyga> ok
20100228 10:36:17< Ivanovic> that is in maybe some 8 hours
20100228 10:39:01< Smar> yey... getting to test almost properly translated core 
20100228 10:39:23< fendrin> boucman: No, I can't say. But maybe YogiHH does know more, he must have touched the code around the issue for fixing the multiplayer persistence endlevel bug.
20100228 10:39:37< boucman> fendrin: ok
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20100228 10:41:37< fendrin> Crab_: I have investigated frogatto's wml schema validation. But I dropped the project after AI0867 told me that his new wml validator written in python is making progress.
20100228 10:42:16< Crab_> fendrin: thanks for the info. so, we would drop 'wml validator' from gsoc ideas list, too, yes ?
20100228 10:42:34-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 68 bugs, 253 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100228 10:42:45< boucman> we have more summer of art projects than summer of code :)
20100228 10:45:00< fendrin> Crab_: depends on if AI0867's validator is doing what we need.
20100228 10:45:52< fendrin> Ivanovic: The problem with a gsoc wml test suite is that wml is not a industry wanted skill...
20100228 10:46:08< fendrin> because it will have to be coded in wml of course.
20100228 10:46:09< Ivanovic> yeah, that is correct
20100228 10:46:29< Ivanovic> but eg wml validation would be a skill wanted in industry, known as "language validation"
20100228 10:47:22< fendrin> Right, the question is, do we get a student that already knows wml? If not is he fast enough in learning it?
20100228 10:47:38< boucman> zookeeper: is FR 4539 still meaningfull ?
20100228 10:47:48< boucman> (last message from 2006, that's why i'm asking
20100228 10:48:59< boucman> Crab_: could you add a small paragraph about yourself at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Information_for_Google#What_criteria_did_you_use_to_select_these_individuals_as_mentors.3F_Please_be_as_specific_as_possible. ?
20100228 10:49:10< Crab_> ok
20100228 10:49:15< boucman> thx
20100228 10:49:22< Ivanovic> fendrin: it is always the question for all projects if the student will have the knowlege and skill required
20100228 10:49:23< zookeeper> boucman, eh, no opinion really.
20100228 10:49:36< boucman> ok, keep it as easycoding then
20100228 10:49:49< fendrin> Ivanovic: Sure but c++ coders will bemore out there than wml experts.
20100228 10:49:49< Ivanovic> fendrin: for our project proposals we should basically consider "is it worth a project and is it possible for a student?"
20100228 10:50:21< Ivanovic> and i don't think that you have to be perfect in WML
20100228 10:51:57< Ivanovic> the question is, which other project can we really propose?
20100228 10:57:55< Crab_> btw, please include a {{SoC2010}} wiki template at start of pages which are related to GSoC 2010, to mark them as 'pages related to SoC 2010 - this way, we can make all those pages contain a single header, which we can change from Template:SoC2010 page.
20100228 10:58:56< Crab_> (this will also add those pages to Summer_of_Code_2010 category)
20100228 11:11:38< boucman> Ivanovic: what's the status of the MP lobby right now ?
20100228 11:11:44< Ivanovic> boucman: no idea
20100228 11:11:49< boucman> k
20100228 11:11:52< Ivanovic> i'd guess "better but not done"
20100228 11:11:55< Ivanovic> ;)
20100228 11:11:59< boucman> ...
20100228 11:12:59< Smar> ”looks horrible but somehow playable”
20100228 11:13:11< Smar> few days ago lobby just were crashy at trunk though
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20100228 11:13:22< Smar> or weeks or whatever
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20100228 11:25:47< fendrin> boucman: Do you have an idea what goes wrong if the ellipses are drawn but not the unit itself?
20100228 11:26:04< Crab_> boucman: done, written about self at 'soc info for google'. also, cleaned up the main 'summer of code ideas' page a bit.
20100228 11:26:05< boucman> are the xp bars drawn ?
20100228 11:26:12< boucman> thx
20100228 11:26:14< fendrin> no
20100228 11:26:23< boucman> hmm
20100228 11:26:27< boucman> that's suprising
20100228 11:28:07< boucman> did you modify unit::redraw_unit to use whatever the correct display is ?
20100228 11:28:18< boucman> because that's where xp bars are drawn
20100228 11:28:44< boucman> (I would advise getting xp bars working first, the code is entirely in unit::redraw unit and look at the actual unit frame after that
20100228 11:28:46< fendrin> boucman: I have disabled the bars right now. Do you consider them working to be the first step?
20100228 11:29:01< fendrin> Okay
20100228 11:29:04< fendrin> I will do so
20100228 11:29:27< boucman> no, but I think if you enable them they will work right away if ellipses work, so it would be nice if you tested that
20100228 11:30:54< boucman> fendrin: i'm going afk for ~1/2 hour, once bars work you might want to try to add aprintf in unit_frames::redraw to check that it's correctly called
20100228 11:31:21< fendrin> boucman: Okay, thanks :-)
20100228 11:36:34< Ivanovic> okay, slightly changed the " I want to be one of your Google Summer of Code students, what should I do... " stuff making sure that the list of people to contact for group membership is up to date and move joining irc at the first position
20100228 11:38:07< Ivanovic> ugh, okay, this list *really* has to be updated: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_People_to_bug_on_IRC
20100228 11:38:12< Ivanovic> that is: dfranke has to be removed
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20100228 11:38:31< Ivanovic> and we should update the list of people who can help building under windows (that is cycholka is gone!)
20100228 11:38:40< Ivanovic> plus we should have a look at the list of wml people
20100228 11:39:02< Ivanovic> and maybe list jetrel and tsi as "artwork related" people?
20100228 11:42:44< Crab_> Ivanovic: btw, I intend to bring MSVC compilation guide up-to-date next week, by trying to compile it myself and hosting a 'prepared *.zip with required libs.
20100228 11:43:02< Ivanovic> Crab_: *great*
20100228 11:43:31< Ivanovic> please don't forget to list yourself in the list of "windows compilation help"
20100228 11:43:41< Ivanovic> and yeah, we should change things a little
20100228 11:43:59< Ivanovic> as in "WML experts" and "compiling on windows" instead of several people listed
20100228 11:45:12< Ivanovic> (and for YogiHH we should mention his knowledge regarding savegames and persistency stuff)
20100228 11:45:16< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100228 12:04:25< boucman> fendrin: how did it go ?
20100228 12:05:18< fendrin> boucman: Still busy with transfering the dependencies of bar drawing...
20100228 12:05:23< boucman> ok
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20100228 12:45:02< fendrin> boucman: okay, bars are working now.
20100228 12:45:14< boucman> fendrin: cool
20100228 12:45:24< boucman> i thought a little about your problem, 
20100228 12:45:42< boucman> is there a sunset command in the editor ?
20100228 12:45:52< boucman> (we need to check the invalidation logic)
20100228 12:48:33< fendrin> sunset?
20100228 12:48:49< boucman> ebug command :sunset in game
20100228 12:49:00< fendrin> never heard of that.
20100228 12:49:01< boucman> (don't know if it works in editor)
20100228 12:49:35< boucman> it darkens progressively the map unless the hex is redrawn, it allows to easily see where faulty redraws are coming from
20100228 12:49:52< boucman> try it in game it's easy to understand when you see it, but hard to explain
20100228 12:49:55< fendrin> boucman: I may have found it: unit_frame does still call the wrong singleton
20100228 12:50:01< boucman> ok
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20100228 12:57:35< fendrin> boucman: if not, what can be done with sunset?
20100228 12:58:19< boucman> fendrin: sunset is mainly a tool to test the invalidation logic of units.
20100228 12:58:41< boucman> it's not worth the effort of porting, but if it works it would be a usefull clue
20100228 13:00:18< fendrin> boucman: And there they are! Thanks for the hint to unit_frame. That shortened the search imense.
20100228 13:00:36< boucman> np
20100228 13:00:41< boucman> are they animated ?
20100228 13:00:48< fendrin> hmmm
20100228 13:01:05< boucman> :)
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20100228 13:02:40< fendrin> boucman: Animation is somewhat bound to halo?
20100228 13:03:18< boucman> no, not at all
20100228 13:03:25< fendrin> When creating a elvish shyde (thought I could see that fliring around her) an assertion is false and exit.
20100228 13:03:30< boucman> haloes are very scarcely used in units
20100228 13:03:42< boucman> only the MoL is the easily testable example
20100228 13:04:06< fendrin> Why?
20100228 13:04:14< fendrin> He has an halo but isn't animated?
20100228 13:05:41< fendrin> Yepp, mage of light is exiting with an halo assertion.
20100228 13:05:45< boucman> you're right the shyde is  better example
20100228 13:06:07< boucman> ok, so haloes are broken, that's also something you might want to fix before looking at unit animations
20100228 13:06:48< fendrin> And undeads are broken as well. They have a trait that triggers a segfault, not related to the drawing engine.
20100228 13:07:02< fendrin> So I can't have a look at the animeted ghosts.
20100228 13:07:18< boucman> use the gryphon to test animations...
20100228 13:08:54< fendrin> right
20100228 13:10:27< fendrin> boucman: no it's not animated. Do we want them to be animated here? 
20100228 13:10:38< boucman> your call...
20100228 13:10:52< boucman> let's fix the segfaults first, we'll look at that later
20100228 13:11:38< fendrin> boucman: Main problem is: The drawing code wants to know about the active side. Sides are a concept not known to the editor yet.
20100228 13:12:31< boucman> well, can't you just decide side 1 is active ?
20100228 13:12:43< boucman> units do have side in the editor, don't they ?
20100228 13:12:51< fendrin> They have
20100228 13:14:05< fendrin> boucman: The question is do I introduce fog of war to give the map designer the ability to design with sight in mind. 
20100228 13:16:58< boucman> fendrin: hmmm
20100228 13:16:59< fendrin> That would solve all drawing problems since nearly everything that a wesnoth game offers is in place (drawing wise) by introducing the team concept to the editor. 
20100228 13:17:16< fendrin> And mp map designers will love it. 
20100228 13:17:42< boucman> fendrin: if I were you i'd force side one to be the active one and no fog
20100228 13:17:45< boucman> make that work
20100228 13:17:52< boucman> then see about team changing and fog
20100228 13:17:59< boucman> don't bite more than you can chew
20100228 13:18:11< fendrin> right
20100228 13:18:17< fendrin> so the side is one for now
20100228 13:18:45< fendrin> still the side vector is empty but that maybe not a problem
20100228 13:18:59< fendrin> boucman: Halos are next, right?
20100228 13:19:20< boucman> whatever segfaults :P
20100228 13:21:26< fendrin> It's a assertion
20100228 13:21:36< fendrin> in halo.cpp line 112
20100228 13:21:50< fendrin>  `disp != __null' 
20100228 13:22:47< boucman> disp is a global variable in halo
20100228 13:22:56< boucman> of type display*
20100228 13:23:08< fendrin> I see
20100228 13:23:22< boucman> created by manager::manager
20100228 13:23:25< fendrin> So it is not set from external for some reason.
20100228 13:23:38< fendrin> managers are mostly in gamestate
20100228 13:23:39< boucman> so apparently you need to create a halo manager somewhere
20100228 13:24:04< boucman> which apparently are stackable
20100228 13:28:01< fendrin> boucman: I guess I need an halo manager for every map loaded.
20100228 13:28:21< boucman> probably
20100228 13:28:41< boucman> fortunately these managers seem to be more or less stackable
20100228 13:30:28< fendrin> The right place might be in editor_controller.cpp since it's created in play_controller the other side.
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20100228 13:43:19< fendrin> It was, bringing the next assertion. line 329
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20100228 13:55:05< fendrin> boucman: could the new assertion be caused by another class not using the right display singleton? Maybe some animation class?
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20100228 13:57:42< boucman> that's possible...
20100228 13:57:57< boucman> you seem to be missing a call to halo::render
20100228 13:58:12< boucman> checke the game_display redraw routines for that
20100228 14:02:25< fendrin> boucman: got it, lifted and compiling...
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20100228 14:08:33< fendrin> boucman: Halos und undeads work. Only animations are still missing.
20100228 14:08:44< boucman> ok
20100228 14:09:10< boucman> so if you creat a gryphin it's displayed but doesn't flap ?
20100228 14:10:21< fendrin> Right, it looks okay but all the parts of the wings that are drawn outside the hex aren't updated regulary.
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20100228 14:16:27< boucman> invalidation problem :)
20100228 14:16:36< boucman> you need to pull the invalidation routines...
20100228 14:17:26< fendrin> sunset doesn't work, I don't even have a console in the editor.
20100228 14:18:01< fendrin> boucman: It's only the case if the hex is highlighted.
20100228 14:18:14< fendrin> I think I know where to fix that.
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20100228 14:55:46< fendrin> boucman: can the unit animations be deactivated in the preferences?
20100228 14:55:57< boucman> no
20100228 14:56:11< boucman> I think idle anims can, but not all animations
20100228 14:56:21< boucman> too many things are built around animations nowdays
20100228 14:56:31< boucman> (even selecting a unit is done through the animation engine
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20100228 15:00:14< fendrin> The animation is going to work in the editor for terrain as well, right?
20100228 15:06:17< boucman> fendrin: it doesn't so far, but if you fix that, it would be great
20100228 15:06:51< fendrin> boucman: I don't think that is far away from where I am now. 
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20100228 15:17:00< fendrin> boucman: Do you know if I need the game_display::predraw() for animation?
20100228 15:17:24< boucman> i think you do, let me check...
20100228 15:18:07< boucman> no, probably not
20100228 15:18:21< boucman> fendrin: if I can state one of my questions again
20100228 15:18:36< boucman> why do we keep the difference between game_display and editor ?
20100228 15:18:59< fendrin> That is black magic, the same thought was bothering in the same moment.
20100228 15:19:13< boucman> it originally was to not pull too much in the editor binary, but since these have been merge, i don't really see the point
20100228 15:20:56< fendrin> boucman: You suggest to throw all three classes in one?
20100228 15:21:26< boucman> i suggest checking  why they are split... 
20100228 15:21:44< boucman> maybe folding them would make things simpler, but we should check why we did it first
20100228 15:23:17< fendrin> I am not sure why it has been done.
20100228 15:24:42< boucman> well, I'm pretty sure my hypothesis is the right one :D
20100228 15:25:54< fendrin> I missed it.
20100228 15:26:04< fendrin> ah,
20100228 15:26:05< fendrin> yes
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20100228 15:27:23< boucman> fendrin: if folding them together is the simplest way, you might want to try that...
20100228 15:28:37< fendrin> boucman: For some reason I like having a display class that contains all shared stuff and two derived classes for the both use cases. I can't see the advantage of having it merged.
20100228 15:28:58< boucman> avoid duplicating code...
20100228 15:29:18< boucman> move the editor slowly to be a special case of a normal game
20100228 15:30:44< fendrin> so editor_display inherits from display. And no game_display anymore?
20100228 15:31:18< boucman> what would be in editor display and not game_display ?
20100228 15:32:35< fendrin> Not much. Only some editor specific tools like brushes.
20100228 15:32:52< boucman> well, we could do that
20100228 15:33:22< boucman> though pushing the brushes into the main game could be interesting too (i'm thinking of the MP editor project that is on the UMC server)
20100228 15:37:33< fendrin> MP editor project?
20100228 15:41:07< boucman> you didn't see that ?
20100228 15:41:34< fendrin> no
20100228 15:41:46< boucman> on the dev UMC server there is a project of map editor implemented through WML which allows multiple users to edit the map each during his turn
20100228 15:41:59< boucman> they can play test the map as they go...
20100228 15:42:16< fendrin> oh
20100228 15:46:54< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41412 /website/start/1.8/po/ (50 files): 
20100228 15:46:54< CIA-88> updated announcement po files from latest template
20100228 15:46:54< CIA-88> stringfreeze for 1.8 announcement started!
20100228 15:48:02< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41413 /website/start/1.8/index.en.html: updated English version of the announcement
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20100228 16:02:31< Ivanovic> zookeeper: could you check if all campaigns are okay and do start?
20100228 16:02:52< Ivanovic> i am off now for about two hours, afterwards i'll try to release the next beta
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20100228 16:10:19< mordante> servus
20100228 16:12:30< mordante> AI0867, any way to reproduce the get_indention_level crash?
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20100228 16:14:50< mordante> Ivanovic, I still like to mentor for GSoC only very busy this week so haven't caught up with all my mail yet
20100228 16:15:21< mordante> ilor, what happened to your addon server rewrite project at the university?
20100228 16:15:43< mordante> Crab_ ^^
20100228 16:15:53< boucman> mordante: can I add you as mentor in the different pages ?
20100228 16:16:16< mordante> boucman, yes
20100228 16:16:28< boucman> ok, thx 
20100228 16:16:31< boucman> working on it...
20100228 16:16:46< mordante> ah great, I hope to have more time to look into it next week
20100228 16:17:46< ilor> mordante: we passed the first part of the course, which is mostly drawing diagrams and stuff for months. there's a prototype but it's not functional (and looks more or less like the current addons www page)
20100228 16:17:47< mordante> I still like the schema idea, but AI0867 is also working on something
20100228 16:18:16< ilor> mordante: in a week or two we'll be making plans for this semester where the target will be to have a working application
20100228 16:18:51< mordante> ilor, that means it makes little sense to make it a GSoC project?
20100228 16:19:10< ilor> mordante: it's a 4-man team project, also
20100228 16:19:29< ilor> with an end date of around early June
20100228 16:19:33< boucman> GSoC idea : adapt the wesnoth UI to devices with touchscreen
20100228 16:19:54< boucman> would require someone able to develop on such a device (most likely iphone or android)
20100228 16:20:04< boucman> or would that be conflicting with existing job on iphone
20100228 16:20:21< boucman> other GSoC idea : adapt wesnoth to spritesheets (i could mentor that)
20100228 16:20:26< mordante> boucman, I like the idea, but I think it's too early, better first finish gui2 so we have one input later
20100228 16:20:35< mordante> the touchscreen idea^
20100228 16:21:14< boucman> you're the one who's the most likely to know that... however not doing this in GSoC means either doing it ourselves or waiting for GSoC 2011
20100228 16:21:29< mordante> ilor, yeah so it makes no sense if you and your fellow students have a working product around that time, having a GSoC student working on it is a waste of time
20100228 16:21:36< ilor> mordante: yeah
20100228 16:22:29< mordante> boucman, true but now you need to modify two input systems
20100228 16:22:48< boucman> or convert the input system to gui2 once and for all as part of the GSoC
20100228 16:23:34< mordante> that sounds more interesting, the event handling is rather independant of the rest of the code
20100228 16:24:18< boucman> ok, that's two more SoC ideas to write down
20100228 16:24:28< mordante> I think it might be feasible, but haven't looked to close in it
20100228 16:24:51< mordante> maybe add the iphone input to that idea as secondary goal
20100228 16:26:24< mordante> Ivanovic, both Smar and ilor reported crashes in the lobby, but I haven't gotten time to get around it
20100228 16:26:44< mordante> also not sure whether I have much time to work on it today
20100228 16:27:17< boucman> i'm redacting the spritesheet right now, i'll do a template for the input idea, you might want to complete it at some point
20100228 16:27:38< mordante> ok
20100228 16:32:21< boucman> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Soc_Idea_Gui2_Input <== fill in whenever you have time
20100228 16:37:35< mordante> ok thanks
20100228 16:42:34-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 67 bugs, 253 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100228 16:53:56< zookeeper> Ivanovic, sorry, i won't have any time in the next several hours
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20100228 17:14:21< teaser> Gambit: I had an idea for your tutorial rewrite: have the menu in the context-menu (and don't tell the player until scenario 2), like that you still play it like a short campaign (starting with the GUI-scenario), but if you want you can jump around.
20100228 17:15:56< Gambit> "context-menu" = right click?
20100228 17:16:14< Gambit> teaser: ^
20100228 17:16:24< teaser> yup
20100228 17:17:16< Gambit> Hehe forces newbies to do it first. But allows people who've already played/started it to skip. Okay I'll try that.
20100228 17:18:29< teaser> yes exactly and you get around the fear beetlenut had on the forums: 'knowing' how large the tutorial is might scare ppl off ;)
20100228 17:18:49< shadowmaster> killall-
20100228 17:21:58< Gambit> It also removes the pango/translators issue. The only reason I was formatting them was to make it easier to tell the sections apart. It looked like a solid wall of text without formatting. But the right click menus have icons :)
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20100228 17:24:56< teaser> nice!
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20100228 17:54:54< AI0867> mordante: I can't reproduce it because trying to do so triggers this assert: src/gui/widgets/grid.cpp:519: virtual void gui2::tgrid::place(const gui2::tpoint&, const gui2::tpoint&): Assertion `false' failed.
20100228 17:55:29< AI0867> I merely read the commit and thought the logic was wrong
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20100228 18:00:08< mordante> AI0867, ah yes I see thanks, I'll commit a fix later
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20100228 18:13:16< shadowmaster> still no possibilities for 1.5.14? too bad :(
20100228 18:13:21< shadowmaster> er, 1.7.14.
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20100228 18:18:29< mordante> you love version numbers don't you shadowmaster ?
20100228 18:18:53< shadowmaster> hey, you'd also be confused if you were sitting on this place
20100228 18:19:09 * shadowmaster feels dizzy
20100228 18:19:22< mordante> what place are you sitting then?
20100228 18:19:59< loonycyborg> Somewhere in Chile. Nuff said.
20100228 18:20:26< mordante> what's confusing about Chile?
20100228 18:20:40< loonycyborg> The earthquake.
20100228 18:21:24< mordante> guess I didn't pay attention to the news the last few days 
20100228 18:21:46< shadowmaster> the aftershocks make this area shake just like the original earthquake. I've never been on a boat but I guess it's the same feeling
20100228 18:22:06< loonycyborg> You'd be confused too if the continent you're on would tire of just sitting there and gone for a walk :P
20100228 18:22:16< shadowmaster> (I'm not getting any far from land so don't suggest me to go on a boat anywhere!)
20100228 18:23:18< mordante> luckily no experiences with earthquakes so also can't compare them with boats
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20100228 18:23:58 * loonycyborg only rode boats once. But those were river boats and that was long ago.
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20100228 18:26:00< loonycyborg> One would need very sensitive equipment to detect anything close to earthquake in the area I'm in.
20100228 18:26:40< shadowmaster> hm
20100228 18:27:39< shadowmaster> in Spanish there are separate words for small, (usually, consider underdeveloped countries) non-destructive earthquakes ("temblores") and strong, destructive earthquakes ("terremotos")
20100228 18:29:21< shadowmaster> I guess in English they are all normally called earthquakes no matter what the intensity
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20100228 18:40:07< shadowmaster> esr: around?
20100228 18:41:11< Ivanovic> re
20100228 18:41:23< Ivanovic> mordante: okay, so with the crashes it probably makes no sense to release a new beta, right?
20100228 18:41:42< shadowmaster> :(
20100228 18:44:34< mordante> Ivanovic, no not really :-(
20100228 18:45:42< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41414 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Chinese (Traditional) and German translation
20100228 18:45:46< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: exactly!
20100228 18:46:53< shadowmaster> :(
20100228 18:53:44< shadowmaster> um, everything in Santiago is closed
20100228 18:54:05 * shadowmaster rolls eyes (c'mon it was just ~7.0 here...)
20100228 18:58:06< shadowmaster> on the bright side, this is a nice excuse for sitting around, doing nothing but chatting on IRC
20100228 18:58:27-!- Acedip [~ani@fedora/Acedip] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100228 18:58:55< shadowmaster> unless Internet goes down again.
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20100228 19:09:48< YogiHH> hello
20100228 19:10:38< shadowmaster> hi there
20100228 19:10:59< mordante> hi YogiHH 
20100228 19:12:10< YogiHH> mordante: What about that gui crash we had on FOSDEM, do you think that is settled by now?
20100228 19:12:31< mordante> YogiHH, the one in the twidget destructor?
20100228 19:12:35< YogiHH> mordante: yes
20100228 19:13:08< mordante> YogiHH, no I don't think so, I've never been able to reproduce it
20100228 19:13:22< mordante> it really looks like a MSVC specific problem
20100228 19:13:55< YogiHH> mordante: Ok, i will see if i can find out something useful about that
20100228 19:14:03< mordante> that would be great
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20100228 20:03:22< mordante> I'm off bye
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20100228 21:22:57< YogiHH> fendrin: Is there a way to embed a WML file into another by using something similar to html #include?
20100228 21:24:33< Espreon> YogiHH: Use {path_to_file}. If you are working with an addon, you'll still need the tilde and everything.
20100228 21:24:57< Gambit> {~add-ons/NameOfAddon/macros/whatever.cfg}
20100228 21:25:22< Espreon> Yeah, like that.
20100228 21:26:19< Espreon> A mainline example: {campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/deaths.cfg}
20100228 21:26:34< YogiHH> Espreon: thanks
20100228 21:26:54< Espreon> You are welcome.
20100228 21:29:35< boucman> fendrin: so, how did it turn out...
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20100228 21:31:14< fendrin> boucman: I try to derive display -> game_display -> editor_display.
20100228 21:31:28< boucman>  ok, and ?
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20100228 21:31:48< fendrin> boucman: If that works we can  think about melting game_display and display.
20100228 21:31:55< boucman> ok
20100228 21:32:52< fendrin> It's not that easy to create all the envirenment for a game_display. There is no teams tod units in the editor.
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20100228 22:06:58< teaser> fendrin, so how about display->editor_display->game_display ?
20100228 22:07:26< boucman> teaser: at this point we have things in ed that don't really belong to gd, but not the other way round
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20100228 22:11:45< teaser> ofc, I should think more before typing (or at least not be drop-dead-tired...) night!
20100228 22:13:36< YogiHH> fendrin, boucman: from modeling the real world, i would propose to go for display->game_display + display->editor_display
20100228 22:14:02< boucman> not sure what you mean
20100228 22:14:26< boucman> we're speaking inheritence tree, so I guess you mean making game_display and editor_display brothers
20100228 22:14:35< YogiHH> yup
20100228 22:14:56< boucman> that's the current solution, but it doesn't make much sense at this point since most (if not all) of game_display is needed in editor
20100228 22:16:18< YogiHH> i'd rather go for moving it to display then instead of going for display -> game_display -> editor_display. I fear it will strike back on us in the long term, when the differences between the two become stronger.
20100228 22:16:46< boucman> YogiHH: agreed with that
20100228 22:17:25< boucman> the three step is only intermediate to put stuff in place
20100228 22:17:31< boucman> the plan is to merge them eventually
20100228 22:17:42< YogiHH> i see
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20100228 22:45:28< esr> shadowmaster: 
20100228 22:45:35< esr> I'm here.
20100228 22:46:29< shadowmaster> esr: is there any distinction for earthquake intensity in English? That is, in Spanish, we call minor earthquakes "temblores" and major earthquakes are "terremotos"
20100228 22:46:35< boucman> Crab_: btw, we'll have to ask esr to proofread the GSOC google application before submitting (esr: no need to at this point, it's WIP, unless you want to add stuff)
20100228 22:46:43< shadowmaster> (and the first translates as "tremors", more or less)
20100228 22:46:48< Crab_> boucman: ok
20100228 22:47:12< boucman> shadowmaster: "tremor" vs "earthquake" maybe, but i'm not 100% sure
20100228 22:48:14< esr> shadowmaster: There's a cognate of "temblores" in English, "temblor", used for small quakes, but it's rare.  It is more common to use "earth tremor" for a small quake, with "earthquake" implying a larger one.
20100228 22:49:06< shadowmaster> ah
20100228 22:49:36< shadowmaster> esr: do I always need to say "earth tremor" or is it understood as "tremor" as well?
20100228 22:49:51< shadowmaster> (in the context of seismic activity)
20100228 22:50:41< esr> Depends on context.  "Temor" has the primary meaning of shakiness or unsteady modtions, e.g. due to Parkinson's disease or something similar.
20100228 22:50:52< esr> Tremor, I mean.
20100228 22:51:42< esr> But if you speak of a group of peoople feeling a tremor, it is understood as "earth tremor".
20100228 22:52:52 * shadowmaster nods
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20100228 22:58:00< YogiHH> mordante: I investigated a little in that crash on removing linked widgets.
20100228 22:58:02< esr> Is "temblores" ever related to shaky movement does to nervous illness in Spanish?
20100228 22:59:12< YogiHH> mordante: Right before calling the desctructor, the member linked_size_, which is doing the critical assert leading to the crash, has its correct entries.
20100228 22:59:42< YogiHH> mordante: Next, a vector is destroyed (not sure which one). After that linked_size_ is still alright.
20100228 23:00:04< shadowmaster> esr: "tembladera" is used instead AFAIK
20100228 23:00:29< shadowmaster> I think there are other, more formal words but I'm a programmer, not a docto
20100228 23:00:30< YogiHH> mordante: Then the cursor::setter member gets destroyed. After that, linked_size_ is empty, thus causing the assert to fire
20100228 23:00:32< shadowmaster> r
20100228 23:01:08< YogiHH> mordante: I am not sure why that doesn't happen on linux. I suppose it is due to the order of destruction, which is handled different there.
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20100228 23:18:07< Crab_> boucman: I've refactored SummerOfCodeIdeas page to include 'generated' lists of pages for both ideas and student projects. this way, if you add/edit a page about the idea, its description on SummerOfCodeIdeas page is updated automatically (from the =Description= section of the page)
20100228 23:18:24< boucman> cool
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 01 00:00:30 2010