--- Log opened Sun Feb 07 00:00:42 2010
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20100207 06:06:31< fengshaun> is there a noticeable difference between the devel and stable versions?
20100207 06:07:47< Espreon> Indeed.
20100207 06:11:27< fengshaun> Espreon: there we go, thanks!
20100207 06:11:44< Espreon> You are welcome.
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20100207 08:32:42< rocket16> Hello all!
20100207 08:33:09< Espreon> Hello.
20100207 08:33:28< rocket16> I am from India.  Nice to meet you, friend Espreon.
20100207 08:33:52< rocket16> By the way, is this a support channel?
20100207 08:34:02< Espreon> I am from the United States of America; it is nice to meet you.
20100207 08:34:04< Espreon> More or less.
20100207 08:34:22< rocket16> United States? Thats my favorite country!
20100207 08:34:35< Espreon> Really now?
20100207 08:34:54< rocket16> Yes! Obviously,
20100207 08:35:08< rocket16> U.S.A is the Champion and defender of Democracy
20100207 08:35:19< Espreon> Uh, OK...
20100207 08:35:22< rocket16> Especially I am a fan of President Obama
20100207 08:35:31< rocket16> He is really an amazing person
20100207 08:35:34< rocket16> By the way,
20100207 08:35:47< Espreon> Uh huh... I see...
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20100207 08:36:45< Zarel> lol
20100207 08:36:51< Blueblaze> Hey
20100207 08:36:58< Zarel> lololololol
20100207 08:36:59< Blueblaze> I am a citizen of the United States of America
20100207 08:37:07< Espreon> rocket16: and who told you that this country is so precious?
20100207 08:37:09< Blueblaze> and I wouldn't care too much if Obama got in a car wreck and died
20100207 08:37:17< rocket16> I have a question. That is, why do developers make Windows versions of Wesnoth? Many people in my locality like Wesnoth, but they play it on Windows. But see, Microsoft Maths is a nice software, but Microsoft will never release a Lnux Version. So, I think there should be certain softwares confined to to linux only
20100207 08:37:30< Blueblaze> Also, America is the assulter of Democracy if you ask me :z
20100207 08:37:36 * Blueblaze goes to his hole and hides
20100207 08:37:49< rocket16> Esperon: I like USA because they protect the people of the world, when need comes
20100207 08:37:52< Espreon> rocket16: The Wesnoth project only makes the source code.
20100207 08:37:55< Zarel> Yeah, if anyone's a defender of democracy, it's that Castro guy.
20100207 08:38:10< rocket16> Also, America saved us from Hitler, Mussolini, Tozo and many others
20100207 08:38:27< rocket16> America helped India to a great deal,
20100207 08:38:34< Zarel> You were never in danger of Hilter or Mussolini, they were too far from  you. :P
20100207 08:38:45< Espreon> Viva señor Castro!
20100207 08:38:50< Espreon> ZarelL ^
20100207 08:39:01< rocket16> Yes, but Hitler wished to capture India, after conquering the Europe
20100207 08:39:20< rocket16> In addition, Japanese bombed on India, and killed thousands of British Indians
20100207 08:39:22< Zarel> China would've protected you if Hitler actually got that far. :P
20100207 08:39:35< Blueblaze> Hitler wished to capture the world after conquering Europe
20100207 08:39:35< rocket16> China was a colony of British then
20100207 08:39:42< Zarel> :O
20100207 08:39:47< Zarel> I think you're thinking of Hong Kong.
20100207 08:39:52< Zarel> Not China.
20100207 08:40:17< rocket16> But India too, is a part of the world. It has 16.7 % population of world, and 2.4 % of Total area
20100207 08:40:18< Espreon> "Britain?
20100207 08:40:22< Espreon> Controlling my China?"
20100207 08:40:32< Zarel> "It's more likely than you think."
20100207 08:40:35< Blueblaze> China was its own Republic during WW3
20100207 08:40:37< Blueblaze> WW2*
20100207 08:40:45< rocket16> And, Japanese really defeated China
20100207 08:40:55< Zarel> Lies. :[
20100207 08:41:03< rocket16> China got its real independence in 1949
20100207 08:41:15< rocket16> :)
20100207 08:41:27< Zarel> No, China won a civil war in 1949.
20100207 08:41:31< Espreon> Zarel: :D
20100207 08:41:46< rocket16> Thats real Independence, isn't it?
20100207 08:41:58< rocket16> Viva la America!
20100207 08:42:05< Espreon> ¡Jesus Cristo!
20100207 08:42:30< rocket16> Jesus is great! Athough I am a Hndu, still I like his messages
20100207 08:42:35< Espreon> *Jesús
20100207 08:42:50< rocket16> But my favourite God is Lord Shiva,
20100207 08:43:06< rocket16> He is one of the Trinity Gods, of Hinduism
20100207 08:43:13< Blueblaze> Zarel: Well, I don't think China won the Civil War :p
20100207 08:43:32< Blueblaze> I think the Communist Chinese Party won the civil war lol
20100207 08:43:40< rocket16> China attacked India in 1962! And, America helped us!
20100207 08:43:42< Zarel> Wrong order. :P
20100207 08:43:57< Blueblaze> true
20100207 08:44:08< Blueblaze> Chinese Communist Party -_-
20100207 08:44:15< Blueblaze> well
20100207 08:44:17< Blueblaze> you can botch it all up
20100207 08:44:22< Blueblaze> It's called the Communist Party of China too
20100207 08:44:26< rocket16> Quanguo Renmin Dibiao Dahui declared war against INA, with PLA in 1962. While America helped us
20100207 08:44:50< rocket16> *Quanguo Renmin Dbiao Dahui" is the PArliament of China
20100207 08:45:22< Espreon> rocket16: My favorite god is Wōden... he is really cool guy; he is the magister of all that is Anglo-Saxon and doesn't afraid of anything.
20100207 08:45:28< sevis> rocket16, Stalin helped protect India against Hitler, too, does he get any love?
20100207 08:45:38< rocket16> I thank all of you, good citizens of America, for you helped us.
20100207 08:45:54< rocket16> Stalin? His main motive has to put communism inIndia
20100207 08:46:00< sevis> And my favourite god is Slaanesh...
20100207 08:46:00< Espreon> I did not.
20100207 08:46:15< Espreon> I am a selfish being who sides with no country.
20100207 08:46:22< rocket16> Slaanesh? Of which religeon?
20100207 08:46:37< Espreon> My main goal in life is to leech off of all that is good for my own selfish desires.
20100207 08:46:46< rocket16> Esperon: You country did, :)
20100207 08:47:05< Espreon> This is not my country.
20100207 08:47:34< Espreon> I am twenty-five percent German, twenty-five percent Polish, twenty-fivr percent Irish, and twenty-five percent of other things.
20100207 08:47:36< rocket16> Then, aren't you an American, Espreon?
20100207 08:47:37 * Zarel high-fives Espreon
20100207 08:47:51< Espreon> I did not choose to be born here... in this wretchèd place.
20100207 08:47:58 * Zarel is ~98% Han.
20100207 08:47:58< rocket16> Ha ha, then I am 50% American, Espreon
20100207 08:48:09 * Blueblaze is 100% Mexican
20100207 08:48:14< rocket16> I would like to have born in USA
20100207 08:48:16< Blueblaze> except I wasn't born in Mexico
20100207 08:48:22< rocket16> bye all
20100207 08:48:22< Espreon> My conscious was probably born in England during 500 AD or something.
20100207 08:48:27< Blueblaze> and I don't ahve any blood-relatives that were born in Mexico 
20100207 08:48:27< Espreon> Goodbye.
20100207 08:48:28< Blueblaze> -_-
20100207 08:48:30< Blueblaze> bye rocket16!
20100207 08:48:35< rocket16> See you later all!
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20100207 08:48:42< sevis> Slaanesh, of the chaos pantheon
20100207 08:48:42< Espreon> OK! ^___^
20100207 08:48:42< Zarel> Man, that was a pretty funny guy.
20100207 08:48:46< Espreon> Indeed.
20100207 08:48:51< sevis> Yep.
20100207 08:48:58< Blueblaze> iNDEED¡
20100207 08:49:00< Blueblaze> :d
20100207 08:49:13< Blueblaze> i¡i¡
20100207 08:49:15< Zarel> Nationalism is always interesting.
20100207 08:49:22< Sacho> Khorne'd!
20100207 08:49:28< Blueblaze> Nationalism is boring
20100207 08:49:35< Blueblaze> It's good to mix up things and not be a robot
20100207 08:49:57< sevis> Nationalism, while bad, is still hillarious.
20100207 08:50:08< Sacho> nationalism is about as good as leaving elvish archers in grasslands vs horsemen
20100207 08:50:13< Blueblaze> It is easy to make fun of for certain
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20100207 10:01:56< rocket16> Hello all!
20100207 10:02:26< rocket16> Hello again to you, Blueblaze, Espreon nd others
20100207 10:02:42< rocket16> Sorry, I meant "and", not "nd"
20100207 10:02:51< Espreon> 'Tis fine.
20100207 10:03:06< Espreon> All of us shall have a jolly good time despite it.
20100207 10:03:44< rocket16> So, my reason is that, we should not make .exe version of Open Source games
20100207 10:03:47< rocket16> Because,
20100207 10:04:08< rocket16> If open source games are confined to Lnux, then more people will migrate to Linux
20100207 10:04:29< Espreon> ...
20100207 10:05:02< rocket16> See, Windows developers won't even make any .rpm or .deb file for us, Linux guys
20100207 10:05:14< Zarel> Well, I don't like .rpm or .deb anyway.
20100207 10:05:23< Zarel> Compiling from source is more fun, anyway.
20100207 10:05:28< Zarel> That, or use repositories.
20100207 10:05:32< Espreon> rocket16: Cut out our Windows-using population... yeahz...
20100207 10:05:38< Espreon> Yay for portage!
20100207 10:05:55< Espreon> Portage is the grandest thing that has ever came into existence...
20100207 10:05:57< rocket16> People should use Linux
20100207 10:06:12< rocket16> See, we recently had a OS war
20100207 10:06:14< Espreon> Convince the entire Windows-using world to switch.
20100207 10:06:37< rocket16> We have a Linux Club here,
20100207 10:07:01< rocket16> There, we called in a few people, who stick to Windows, to demonstrate the power of Linux
20100207 10:07:20< Espreon> What distro do you use?
20100207 10:07:22< rocket16> They got defeated with Vista in every aspect to Ubuntu 9.04
20100207 10:07:42< rocket16> I use Ubuntu 9.10 and Kubuntu 9.10
20100207 10:07:50< Espreon> Honestly, Ubuntu is just... meh...
20100207 10:08:00< rocket16> And what distro do you use?
20100207 10:08:44< Espreon> Sabayon... however, I mangled my installation, thus it might as well be a Gentoo installation.
20100207 10:08:51< rocket16> Ubuntu is probably the best Distro of Linux, Debian probably the second
20100207 10:09:10< Espreon> Why?
20100207 10:09:33< rocket16> Because it is easier to use, handle and operate
20100207 10:09:43< rocket16> It has better support than any other distro
20100207 10:10:01< rocket16> It provides "Ship-It" feature, :) delivering free CDs to home
20100207 10:10:26< Espreon> So?
20100207 10:10:34< Espreon> Where is all of the excitement and all of that?
20100207 10:10:41< Espreon> I can only get that with Gentoo-based distros. :)
20100207 10:10:41< rocket16> Gentoo is nice, but harder to install, and mainly for developers
20100207 10:10:58< Espreon> To me, Sabayon is instant Gentoo. ;)
20100207 10:11:01< Smar> you’re so wrong about that :)
20100207 10:11:05< rocket16> Both Ubuntu and Gentoo are better than Windows
20100207 10:11:14< rocket16> Hello Smar, nice to meet you again
20100207 10:11:20< Smar> hi.
20100207 10:11:41< Espreon> Smar: Who me?
20100207 10:11:57< rocket16> But one thing, both Gentoo and Ubuntu are better than Windows! D you all agree?
20100207 10:12:02< zookeeper> -.-
20100207 10:12:06< Smar> Espreon: rockettty
20100207 10:12:12< Espreon> Good.
20100207 10:12:17< Smar> :D
20100207 10:12:23< Smar> I don’t like sabayon though :)
20100207 10:12:24< rocket16> :)
20100207 10:12:28< Smar> and even less funtoo
20100207 10:12:32< Smar> it just broke my packages
20100207 10:13:50< Espreon> Smar: I just mangle all of my Sabayon installations.
20100207 10:14:01< Espreon> ... as I can't really start with Gentoo for multiple reasons.
20100207 10:14:12< Smar> ? :D
20100207 10:14:35< Smar> I’d just take my vps image if I want to get gentoo running fast :P
20100207 10:14:53< rocket16> I think, instead of comparing Linux distros, we should all attack Windows
20100207 10:15:03< Smar> and with this comp I have on my desktop even compiling kde goes like in few hours
20100207 10:15:32< rocket16> A funny saying "In a World without Walls and fences, who needs gates and windows" (GAtes=Bill Gates)
20100207 10:15:37< Espreon> OK, my ethernet card doesn't work and othe people use this computer, so, I cannot start with Gentoo.
20100207 10:15:42< Espreon> *other
20100207 10:15:54< Smar> Espreon: ehm?
20100207 10:16:21< Espreon> I often have to relinquish the comp to others so that they can use it... so... yeahz...
20100207 10:16:22< Smar> mm, you need wifi support?
20100207 10:16:25< Espreon> Yes.
20100207 10:16:40< Smar> are you sure gentoo livecd/livedvd doesn’t provide drivers nowadays? :P
20100207 10:16:52< rocket16> Gentoo is an awesome distribution and the Portage tool is the greatest thing since sliced bread IMO. Portage allows you to customize your software installs and will install dependencies if needed, which saves tons of time since installing software manually can be a huge headache. Gentoo has a definent learning curve to it at first and can drive you crazy sometimes, but it is the ultimate in customization. Although, if you bear through the walkthrough's
20100207 10:16:52< rocket16>  on Gentoo's website, you will be able to install it; as long as you are patient enough.
20100207 10:16:52< rocket16> Ubuntu is a great beginner's distro and is super easy to install. I recommend this distro if you want a quick install and then learn after the fact. Unless you are running an old computer or are running the PC as a server, the performance gains between Ubuntu and Gentoo are negligable. If like the KDE desktop -I am partial to it- then I recommend you get the specific distribution called Kubuntu. This distro is KDE on Ubuntu and is optimized for KDE.
20100207 10:16:54< rocket16> Slackware is another good distribution and one of the older ones that is out there. I liked it and it offers a good balance of usability and performance.If your totally anal, get Gentoo. If you just want to get the job done, get Kubuntu. If you want a balance, get Slackware.
20100207 10:17:09< Smar> but well yeah, installing gentoo scratch with that kind of system can be cumbersome
20100207 10:18:36< rocket16> So, which is better? KDE or GNOME? I think GNOME
20100207 10:19:00< Smar> FRAMEBUFFER.
20100207 10:20:09< rocket16> We smashed Windows people, with Ubuntu
20100207 10:20:46< rocket16> Do you know, that they boasted with Radio dock of Vista, and told us, that no other dock is better
20100207 10:21:09< rocket16> When we started AWN, they were stunned (since AWN=3D)
20100207 10:21:38< Espreon> Smar: The only driver that works for my card OTB is wl... as far as I know.
20100207 10:21:50< rocket16> They presented Vista effects, and we offered Compiz ones
20100207 10:22:13< rocket16> Compiz = 100%, Aero = 10%
20100207 10:22:41< rocket16> So, which is your favourite Campaign in Wesnoth?
20100207 10:23:14< rocket16> Mine is Sceptre of Fire, Under the Burning Suns
20100207 10:23:47< Espreon> Ah, rewriting UtBS shall be fun.
20100207 10:24:37< rocket16> So, Espreon, what is your favourite campaign?
20100207 10:24:48< Espreon> IFtU.
20100207 10:25:32< rocket16> Sorry I didn't understand
20100207 10:26:39< Espreon> Invasion from the Unknown.
20100207 10:27:05< rocket16> Good!
20100207 10:27:31< Sacho> why do you want to rewrite utbs?
20100207 10:27:37< rocket16> But Gentoo has Slow package installation. This can take hours
20100207 10:28:10< Espreon> Sacho: it is my job. UtBS' code is an abomination.
20100207 10:28:14< Sacho> ah
20100207 10:28:40< rocket16> And, There are normally no precompiled binaries for software in Gentoo, unlike Ubuntu
20100207 10:28:41< Sacho> so only refactoring?
20100207 10:29:00< Espreon> That and maybe we will improve the story. IDK.
20100207 10:29:13 * Sacho shrugs
20100207 10:30:21< rocket16> Hello Sacho! Nice to meet you, after our last talks
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20100207 10:30:46< rocket16> The French police are in the process of installing Ubuntu on 90,000 workstations, demonstrating a 70% saving on the IT budget without having to reduce its capabilities.
20100207 10:30:48-!- Ivanovic_ontour is now known as Ivanovic|FOSDEM
20100207 10:30:51< Smar> rocket16: yeah, installing full kde takes few hours.
20100207 10:31:10-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 10:31:48< rocket16> But in Ubuntu, is you have packages downloaded, it will probably take 10 minutes
20100207 10:32:10< Smar> and then it will DIE!
20100207 10:32:19 * Espreon chuckles.
20100207 10:32:39< rocket16> What? I mean, KDE will die in Ubuntu?
20100207 10:32:49< Smar> surely. 
20100207 10:32:58< rocket16> why
20100207 10:33:08< Smar> dunno. 
20100207 10:33:10< Sacho> he's joking
20100207 10:33:20< rocket16> Oh, thanks SAcho
20100207 10:33:34< Smar> what, I weren’t enough obvious? ;)
20100207 10:34:53< rocket16> KDE + Ubuntu makes a perfect Combination, namely KUbuntu. Ubuntu is currently the most popular distribution. In my locality, among 600 Linux users, 512 use Ubuntu (We made a survery, to defeat Windows)
20100207 10:35:22< rocket16> So, I don't know about the best, but Ubuntu is the most popular
20100207 10:35:45< Smar> best usually is never popular
20100207 10:36:13< Sacho> best is not an absolute
20100207 10:36:21< rocket16> in 2009, Uuntu has 40-50 % desktop shares, defeating Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Knoppiz, Redhat, Fedora, MAndriva, Mandrake,
20100207 10:36:21< Smar> Sacho: surely, but still
20100207 10:36:23-!- Tomsik [~Tomsik@bbw137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 10:37:36< rocket16> Really Smar? Then, is Bill GAtes better than Torvalds, since he is less popular?
20100207 10:38:03< Smar> they’re persons, not oses.
20100207 10:38:08< rocket16> People consider Torvalds a hero, while Gates a businessman
20100207 10:38:09-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
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20100207 10:39:11< rocket16> Smar, then your local telephone tower is less popular than Eifel Tower, so is it better designed? :)
20100207 10:39:31< Smar> surely, Eifel torn is real small. 
20100207 10:39:40< Smar> like a piece of paper.
20100207 10:40:31< rocket16> Then the Statue of your Garden Gnome should be better than Satue of Liberty, as it is less popular! :)
20100207 10:40:44< Sacho> incorrect logic
20100207 10:40:58< Sacho> he said, "Best usually is never popular"
20100207 10:41:07< rocket16> In a democrary, the the choice of the people is supreme
20100207 10:41:15< Sacho> Not "Quality and Popularity are inversely proportional"
20100207 10:41:33< rocket16> So, people usually accept the best, making it most popular
20100207 10:41:33< rocket16> So, Ubuntu > Gentoo
20100207 10:43:03 * Espreon rolls his eyes
20100207 10:44:07< rocket16> The Ministry of Education and Science of Republic Of Macedonia  deployed more than 180,000 Ubuntu Linux based classroom desktops, and has encouraged every student in the country to use Ubuntu-powered computer workstations.
20100207 10:44:35< rocket16> Ubuntu was awarded the Reader Award for best Linux distribution at the 2005 LinuxWorld Conference and Expo in London
20100207 10:45:34< Espreon> I see your point, but there is a problem...
20100207 10:45:41< Smar> yey, inserted s as sanakirja for wiktionary to my opera x) 
20100207 10:45:52< Smar> now I can search from there from address bar 
20100207 10:46:04< rocket16> Espreon, what is that?
20100207 10:46:19< Espreon> Noöne really cares that much.
20100207 10:46:51< rocket16> About what? Ubuntu?
20100207 10:47:09< Espreon> No, about all of the awards that it won, et cætera.
20100207 10:47:26< Sacho> technically, the money your government is using to setup its workstations, is partly yours, so you should care where it goes :)
20100207 10:47:47< rocket16> Yes, still none does care much about Gentoo
20100207 10:47:58< Espreon> That is true.
20100207 10:48:06< Espreon> Sacho: To whom are you speaking?
20100207 10:48:36< Smar> main reason gentoo is not used in production systems looks like to be people actually needs to learn to use gentoo before they can just throw it in...
20100207 10:48:41< Sacho> The wall, mainly
20100207 10:48:44< Espreon> Cool.
20100207 10:48:46< Smar> :P
20100207 10:49:53< rocket16> In Google Fight, Ubuntu smashed Gentoo!
20100207 10:50:26< rocket16> Ubuntu = 5970000 results while Gnetoo = 872000 results
20100207 10:50:55< Espreon> There is only one problem... noöne cares.
20100207 10:51:04< Smar> in google fight, I smash you. 
20100207 10:51:18< rocket16> Smar, is it another joke?
20100207 10:51:19< Smar> does that make me better? :P
20100207 10:51:28< Smar> rocket16: you or I?
20100207 10:51:47< rocket16> I think both of us, Smar, :)
20100207 10:51:53< Smar> oh. 
20100207 10:52:35-!- lizard_r [~Rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 10:53:03< rocket16> Smar, "I" has different meanings to different persons, it is like a mirror, but Ubuntu and Gentoo are constant to all
20100207 10:54:42< rocket16> So,KDE 4KDE 4 in Ubuntu than what Gentoo currently offers.  From what I can tell, Gentoo got in a big fight over how to package KDE 4, causing them to fall behind in stabilizing KDE 4.
20100207 10:55:26< sevis> Wait, you're claiming Kubuntu has good KDE? What?
20100207 10:55:44< rocket16> Certainly, it is better than Gentoo ofcourse
20100207 10:56:11< sevis> Didn't you say you use Gnome...?
20100207 10:56:42< rocket16> Ubuntu is mainly based on GNOME, so I do. But I do use LXDE, KDE and GNOME all (they are all loaded in my machine)
20100207 10:57:08< sevis> Well, I've heard 9.10 changed some things, but KDE on 9.04 was horrendous for me.
20100207 10:57:37< rocket16> 9.04 was not well but 9.10 is great! Try it once,
20100207 10:58:09< sevis> Eh, I already moved to Gentoo + OpenBox, so no thanks.
20100207 10:58:17-!- SwiftrTaylor [~Taylor@222-155-65-195.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100207 10:58:23< Smar> also, gentoo just rewrote kde4 packages and because of that didn’t in the end package 4.0 at all
20100207 10:58:48< rocket16> Ha ha, using Gentoo wastes your Weekends configuring it
20100207 10:58:54< Smar> and that’s good thing, because with gentoo you were able to go down with kde4-experimental that provided lovely paludis compatible scm ebuilds for trunk
20100207 10:59:17< rocket16> Ubuntu has "Click and Do" system
20100207 10:59:24< sevis> Ever since installing Gentoo on this, I've not had to configure anything unless I really wanted to.
20100207 10:59:27< Smar> rocket16: you don’t know anything about packaging, do you?
20100207 10:59:36< rocket16> Certainly I do
20100207 10:59:40< Smar> no you don’t. 
20100207 10:59:45< Espreon> Sometimes, clicking to do things isn't the best way...
20100207 10:59:59< rocket16> Smar, are you challenging me?
20100207 11:00:08< Smar> rocket16: if you want so. 
20100207 11:00:11< Espreon> Typing things in and hitting enter is awesome...
20100207 11:00:23< sevis> Especially when the minimal window size of the configuration is 800 pixels high, and you've got a 1024x600 netbook :)
20100207 11:00:29< Smar> smar@Moon ~> set foo (echo cm0gL2hvbWUvc21hci8uaXJzc2kK | base64 -d) ; eval $foo
20100207 11:00:33< Smar> these things are <3
20100207 11:00:49-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:01:21< rocket16> In Ubuntu, all you need is"sudo dpkg -i *.deb" and enter, to install all your packages
20100207 11:01:33< Espreon> Using coreutils and bash as a file manager is so awesome.
20100207 11:01:33< rocket16> Bt what about your Gentoo, Smar?
20100207 11:01:35< Smar> ....what
20100207 11:01:43< Espreon> LOL...
20100207 11:01:49< Smar> rocket16: paludis -i rocket_trashy
20100207 11:01:57< Smar> paludis -u rocket_trashy --all-versions
20100207 11:01:58< rocket16> Smar, what about old Gentoo?
20100207 11:02:05< Smar> what’s your old gentoo?
20100207 11:02:10< Espreon> rocket16: Why aren't you using apt-get or aptitude?
20100207 11:02:32< sevis> emerge -e world <3
20100207 11:02:36< rocket16> Espreon, that causes all packages to be downloaded, while this helps you to ionstall packages from local folders
20100207 11:02:36< Smar> :>
20100207 11:02:49< Smar> paludis -i world --dl-reinstall always
20100207 11:02:55< Espreon> Uh huh... I see...
20100207 11:03:09< rocket16> Actually it is the huge community of ubuntu which makes it unique among other linux distros
20100207 11:03:22< Smar> (someone doesn’t even know tools of its system)
20100207 11:03:34< Smar> and still gentoo’s docs are better
20100207 11:03:39< Espreon> Indeed.
20100207 11:04:00< rocket16> (Someone is so dumb to sit to waste hours just to make simple things in his system)
20100207 11:04:13< Smar> I agree with that one.
20100207 11:04:21< sevis> Nope, that's LFS...
20100207 11:04:30< Smar> or rocket16’s system. 
20100207 11:04:42< rocket16> System =Smar's System
20100207 11:04:55< rocket16> I mean Gentoo
20100207 11:05:02< Espreon> I disagree...
20100207 11:05:08-!- Noyga|FOSDEM [~noyga@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:05:13< sevis> Gentoo does not require per-package configuration.
20100207 11:05:20< Smar> no really, you are just speding time unnecessarily with that stupid installation thingie you think is useful
20100207 11:05:49< rocket16> Huh, does Gentoo have extensive community like Ubuntu? Not even in dreams
20100207 11:06:06< Smar> no, but gentoo has active and skillfull community
20100207 11:06:09< Smar> unlike ubuntu
20100207 11:06:16 * Espreon chuckles.
20100207 11:06:34< sevis> Erm... How many Gentooers are online here atm, and how many Ubuntuers?
20100207 11:06:45< Smar> hmm... 3 against one? ;)
20100207 11:07:13< rocket16> Go to ubuntuforums and repeat the same questions
20100207 11:07:21< Smar> go to gentooforums instead.
20100207 11:07:22< Espreon> Why?
20100207 11:07:27< Espreon> (To rocket)
20100207 11:07:32< rocket16> And compare the noo. in Gentoo forums and Ubuntuforums
20100207 11:07:38< Smar> sevis: but there must be idling 100 ubuntu computers that doesn’t know what to say
20100207 11:07:58< Smar> noo as amount of newbies?
20100207 11:07:59< sevis> Smar: Then that shows how much they're interested in their system.
20100207 11:08:05< Smar> yup. 
20100207 11:08:09< rocket16> Espreon, I mean more Uuntuforum members are present than Gentoo forums members
20100207 11:08:20< Espreon> So?
20100207 11:08:25< Espreon> More isn't always better.
20100207 11:08:42< Smar> Espreon: I said that already, with no-no results ;)
20100207 11:09:20< Espreon> Sheer amount does not always equate to grandness.
20100207 11:09:41< rocket16> Gentoo has poor QA
20100207 11:09:51< Smar> oh really.
20100207 11:09:59< sevis> *facepalm*
20100207 11:10:00< Smar> it’s just portage that’s trash ;)
20100207 11:10:03< rocket16> Gentoo has unstable "stable" branches and for having a closed "upper management elite"
20100207 11:10:21< rocket16> Synaptic is better than Portage
20100207 11:10:34< Smar> just how you compare those two.
20100207 11:11:00< Espreon> Synaptic is a front-end...
20100207 11:11:07< rocket16> Ha, Gentoo takes even days installing it
20100207 11:11:09< Espreon> dpkg is the actual package manager.
20100207 11:11:29< Smar> gentoo takes about 3 minutes to install.
20100207 11:11:29< Espreon> I think...
20100207 11:11:51< Smar> Espreon: yup, but in itself dpkg is useless as it doesn’t pull dependencies and such
20100207 11:12:07< Smar> so comparing apt and portage/emerge would be wiser
20100207 11:12:11< Smar> or even aptitude
20100207 11:12:16< Espreon> Indeed.
20100207 11:12:29< rocket16> very large ones such as X11 and OpenOffice.org) take days to compile and are incompatible with the needs of many users who require quick software installation.
20100207 11:12:39< sevis> Speaking of package managers, is paludis worth moving to?
20100207 11:12:52< Smar> I’ve been using it about a year now, I think
20100207 11:13:02< sevis> rocket16, nonsense.
20100207 11:13:14< Espreon> Indeed.
20100207 11:13:18< sevis> X11 takes far less than 8 hours to compile on my netbook.
20100207 11:13:19< Smar> just how’s Xorg large
20100207 11:13:37< Smar> Xorg takes something like a hour at maximum to compile on my old comp
20100207 11:13:56< Smar>      Thu Feb  4 17:54:37 2010 >>> x11-base/xorg-server-1.7.4.901:0
20100207 11:13:56< Smar>        merge time: 1 minute and 47 seconds.
20100207 11:14:08< rocket16> I am talking about Older hardware, Sevis
20100207 11:14:21< rocket16> Ubuntu resurrects older hardware
20100207 11:14:25< sevis> How old are you talking? Pentium II?
20100207 11:14:27< Smar> you’re talking about something like PI then
20100207 11:14:34< Smar> I have gentoo on my PII
20100207 11:14:42< Smar> or had, I just killed that machine :)
20100207 11:14:48 * Espreon chuckles.
20100207 11:15:03< Smar> I had gentoo on SPARC64 Ultra 1 too :)
20100207 11:15:10< Smar> it were fun. 
20100207 11:15:26< rocket16> Compiling from Source in Gentoo is less secure. I is type of reinventing wheel
20100207 11:15:35< Smar> Ok. 
20100207 11:15:35< Espreon> Smar: Was it a jolly good time?
20100207 11:15:44< Smar> Espreon: 1-2 years ago
20100207 11:15:46< Smar> used it as server
20100207 11:15:51< Espreon> rocket16: LOL, hwæt?
20100207 11:15:52< sevis> Erm. Less secure and reinventing the wheel are completely different things? O_o
20100207 11:15:59< sevis> And, besides, who would put X11 on a PII machine?
20100207 11:15:59< rocket16> Sevis, I am talking about less RAM
20100207 11:16:09< Smar> I got to run it with 10/10 link on my friend’s house :P
20100207 11:16:10< Espreon> Smar: That didn't really answer my question. ;)
20100207 11:16:37< Smar> Espreon: well, sure. 
20100207 11:16:40< sevis> How little?
20100207 11:16:54< Espreon> Using Portage itself is a jolly good time.
20100207 11:16:54< Smar> it took about 1-2 days to install it :P
20100207 11:17:14< Espreon> Yeahz...
20100207 11:17:32< Smar> but mainly because...ehrm...I had some technical problems
20100207 11:17:41< Smar> mainly with getting the machine even to boot
20100207 11:17:48< rocket16> Sevis, in Ubuntu, X11 takes probably 10 minutes to install
20100207 11:17:54< Smar> it’s not really easy to install something a machine you’ve never even seen :P
20100207 11:18:01-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100207 11:18:24< Smar> I got answer from my friend at irc, then opened gentoo manual and saw it to say same line.
20100207 11:18:59< sevis> I realise that. How little RAM do you mean?
20100207 11:19:11-!- ilor [~user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:19:22< Smar> rocket16: in gentoo, Xorg takes about 10 minutes to install. 
20100207 11:19:31< rocket16> Sevis, I mean 256 MB
20100207 11:19:34< Smar> never say your specs x) 
20100207 11:20:13< rocket16> Smar: Then what about Sevis? IS he telling wrong you mean?
20100207 11:20:24< Smar> what?
20100207 11:20:43-!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-75-35.btc-net.bg] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:20:47< rocket16> Sevis (I believe him) told that  it requires 8 Hours
20100207 11:20:57< Smar> where%
20100207 11:20:58< sevis> 256 MB should be more or less fine.
20100207 11:21:00< Smar> ?*
20100207 11:21:17-!- Sacho [~sacho@95-42-75-35.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100207 11:21:19< sevis> I said less than that, and that's including dependencies.
20100207 11:21:34< Smar> sevis: what about my 10 minutes? ;)
20100207 11:21:49< Smar> I think it’s pretty much true with this comp too
20100207 11:22:08< rocket16> Lol, 10 minutes and 8 Hours are not comparable, are they?
20100207 11:22:11< sevis> Smar: On what machine? :P As I said, this is on a netbook.
20100207 11:22:38< sevis> Yeah, they are... If you have the RAM to put /var/tmp/ in it...
20100207 11:22:48< Smar> sevis: nah, I’m practically joking about times, this is pretty fast comp. 
20100207 11:22:53< sevis> And if it's with/without dependencies.
20100207 11:23:11< rocket16> Checkout http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread34866.html# to know why Ubuntu beats Gentoo
20100207 11:23:13< Smar> with depencies my times :P
20100207 11:23:26< Smar> as said, xorg-server takes 1,5 minutes :P
20100207 11:23:30-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100207 11:24:51< rocket16> Anyway, bye all. Really had a good debate on Ubuntu vs Gentoo
20100207 11:25:08 * Espreon rolls his eyes.
20100207 11:25:14< Smar> though I didn’t say much real things.
20100207 11:25:25-!- rocket16 [~anirban@115.117.197.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100207 11:25:58< sevis> Hehehe. Anyone else starting to feel he may be a bot?
20100207 11:26:30-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:26:58< Espreon> sevis: Or perhaps he was just craving some lulz.
20100207 11:27:02< Espreon> IDK,
20100207 11:27:36< Smar> or maybe just some common ubuntu idiot that’s always crawling to #ohjelmointiputka ... 
20100207 11:27:49< Espreon> LOL, hwæt?
20100207 11:27:57< Smar> one chan I’m ont
20100207 11:27:59< Smar> -t
20100207 11:28:10< Smar> we’re always having strange visitors.
20100207 11:29:24< sevis> Hm. Smar, would you recommend moving to Paludis as main package manager?
20100207 11:29:48< Smar> I use it on production servers too
20100207 11:30:38< Espreon> Out of curiosity, what is so great about Paludis?
20100207 11:31:00< Smar> paludis’ front end is much nicer than emerge
20100207 11:31:10< Smar> and it handles things much wiser
20100207 11:31:14< Smar> playman is so yummy
20100207 11:31:30< sevis> Hmm, nice, looking into it.
20100207 11:31:53< Smar> one fun thing: 
20100207 11:31:53< Smar> smar@Moon ~> paludis -q glibc | wp
20100207 11:31:53< Smar> Your paste can be seen here: http://dpaste.com/155671/
20100207 11:32:22< Smar> there’s much little thing
20100207 11:32:23< Smar> +s
20100207 11:33:30< Smar> (that’s pretty colored, with use flag pink, doesn’t show up in the paste though :)
20100207 11:33:51< sevis> Heh
20100207 11:33:52< sevis> :O
20100207 11:33:57< sevis> Would this work in use.conf:
20100207 11:34:08-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100207 11:34:23< sevis> x11-*/* X
20100207 11:34:29< sevis> ?
20100207 11:34:31< Smar> hmm, I don’t know
20100207 11:34:36< Smar> may or may not
20100207 11:34:39< Smar> test and you see :)
20100207 11:34:46< Smar> x11-libs/* atleast should
20100207 11:35:17-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth
20100207 11:35:29< Smar>                                                                                                                                                                                                 
20100207 11:35:29< sevis> w00t, finally :D I still don't get why those x11 things have a choice as to whether they should support X or not.
20100207 11:35:33< Smar> */* RUBY_TARGETS: -* ruby18 ruby19                   
20100207 11:35:41< Smar> maybe for servers
20100207 11:35:49< Smar> to not to pull xorg-server and its dependencies
20100207 11:36:30< sevis> Yeah, I understand for things like links
20100207 11:36:48< sevis> But why have one for x11-libs/cairo ?
20100207 11:36:54< Smar> you know, some packages actually pulls out cairo, for example
20100207 11:37:02< Smar> because it’s needed for font stuff or something
20100207 11:37:18< sevis> Ah, hm, okay, didn't know.
20100207 11:37:22< Smar> :)
20100207 11:37:41< Smar>      Description:         A vector graphics library with cross-device output support
20100207 11:37:55< Smar> eix works somewhat well with paludis too :)
20100207 11:38:26< Smar> only thing is that it spawns errors about scm packages, like those in kde4-experimental
20100207 11:38:46< Smar> they’re pretty annoying, but atleast they’re at the upside of all meaningful data :)
20100207 11:39:56< sevis> I've never gotten around to using that. I guess I don't pay enough attention to packages.
20100207 11:40:16< Smar> :)
20100207 11:40:23< Smar> I always need something new
20100207 11:40:34< Smar> I even have my own overlay for misc packages
20100207 11:40:53< Smar> I’m not too sure it provides anything too useful now
20100207 11:41:14< Smar> I don’t really maintain it, so it’s not recommended for people :P 
20100207 11:41:24< sevis> I always feel like my computer has too many packages...
20100207 11:42:21< Smar> I just cleaned up about 300....
20100207 11:42:41< Smar> 200 left by cleaning up world file and 100 by removing eclipse-sdk —.—
20100207 11:43:00< Smar> paludis --uninstall-unused ; paludis -u eclipse-sdk --with-unused-dependencies 
20100207 11:44:28-!- boucman|FOSDEM [~boucman@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100207 11:45:18< sevis> 546 packages installed at the moment... Wonder where they all came from O_o
20100207 11:45:33< Smar> hmm, where to see them?
20100207 11:45:40< Smar> ..I’ll just use eix
20100207 11:45:45< sevis> Eh, I got it by running emerge --depclean --pretend
20100207 11:46:18< Smar> Found 1354 matches.
20100207 11:46:24< Smar> eix is faster , I suppose :)
20100207 11:46:35< sevis> Much, I would expect :)
20100207 11:46:39< Smar> :)
20100207 11:46:53< Smar> smar@Moon ~> cat /var/db/pkg/world | wc -l
20100207 11:46:53< Smar> 259
20100207 11:47:12< Smar> I have whole kde4, it increases the count quite well
20100207 11:47:42< Smar> then much different libraries
20100207 11:47:49< sevis> 66 :)
20100207 11:47:55< Smar> gnome’s pretty much missing though :P
20100207 11:48:10< Smar> 87 on my server... :D
20100207 11:48:23< Espreon> Smar: Which version of KDE4 do you use?
20100207 11:48:39< Smar> it has 470 packages, so it is most likely bloated, the world file
20100207 11:48:54< Smar> 4.3.5
20100207 11:49:14< Espreon> I use 4.4 RC3.
20100207 11:49:19< Espreon> It is quite nice.
20100207 11:49:43< Smar> but it’s not on gentoo-86 yet?
20100207 11:49:57< Espreon> I installed it from the kde overlay.
20100207 11:49:58< Smar> also, is 4.4.0 out already? kde overlay has packages.
20100207 11:50:07< Smar> yeh, I try not to use it :)
20100207 11:50:31< Smar>     kde:                     (4.3.98)R(~) (4.4.0)R(~) (4.4.9999)KR {:4.4} (9999)K {:live
20100207 11:51:19< sevis> Hm, the Paludis FAQ mentions xattrs - sould I have those enabled?
20100207 11:51:33< Espreon> Smar: I am not sure.
20100207 11:51:40< Smar> sevis: what’s that?
20100207 11:52:09< sevis> Extra attributes of some sort.
20100207 11:52:14< Smar> for filesystem?
20100207 11:52:44< sevis> Yep.
20100207 11:52:48< Smar> it just complains about stuff ... actually, I’ve seen some kind of fails on compilation too I haven’t checked, these may be because of that
20100207 11:53:00< Smar> jfs with without extended attributes :)
20100207 11:53:06< Smar> -with
20100207 11:53:14< Smar> but it’s not really fatal
20100207 11:53:31< Smar> just...may break something actually important sometimes
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20100207 11:54:40< sevis> Hm, okay. Well, let me get those, anyway, I doubt they cause much extra load.
20100207 11:54:58< Smar> they don’t 
20100207 11:55:02< Smar> should be enabled anyway
20100207 11:55:24< Smar> even extracting stage3 package says errors without those :)
20100207 11:55:37< sevis> Whoops.
20100207 11:55:37< Smar> so gentoo’s in theory incompatible without those
20100207 11:57:09< sevis> I've been running fine for some time without them... Or perhaps I'm confused.
20100207 11:57:19< Smar> yeah, me too.
20100207 11:58:00< Smar> it’s just my root isn’t jfs partition and usr and other mounts from lvm are
20100207 11:58:14< Smar> so any kind of autodetection didn’t really work
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20100207 12:07:46< sevis> A pity it's not possible to remove portage O.o
20100207 12:09:07< Smar> yep
20100207 12:09:24< Smar> though doing rm (which emerge) should help at first
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20100207 12:23:02< sevis> Ah, there we go, built.
20100207 12:23:18< Smar> :)
20100207 12:23:28< Smar> for me kernel compilation takes... about one minute :P
20100207 12:23:49< Smar> because there isn’t autotools slowing it down
20100207 12:24:17< sevis> You mean, you don't compile it with make?
20100207 12:24:46< Smar> no, it doesn’t have those slow_as_hell configuration scripts and stuff autotools creates
20100207 12:24:56< Smar> or anyway 
20100207 12:25:40< sevis> I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand - what do you use, then?
20100207 12:26:43< Smar> no, you know, when you install a package, it goes through all those configure scripts and sometimes even generates them
20100207 12:26:50< Smar> and that’s slowwy. 
20100207 12:27:50< sevis> Ahh, okay.
20100207 12:28:15< sevis> Hm. Does symlinking /var/lib/portage/world to /var/db/pkg/world sound like a good idea? o.O
20100207 12:28:30< sevis> Oh, wait, no.
20100207 12:28:43< sevis> The /var/db/pkg/world is already a symlink to that xD
20100207 12:28:50< Smar> :D
20100207 12:28:56< sevis> That'd be amusing to watch.
20100207 12:28:58< Smar> yeah.
20100207 12:29:16< Smar> krename is so powerful it’s hard to use... :( 
20100207 12:30:36< Smar> bleh, whatever
20100207 12:30:43< Smar> doesn’t look like it does what I want anyway
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20100207 12:34:54< sevis> Syncing... Seems to work.
20100207 12:34:58< Smar> :)
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20100207 12:47:20< sevis> Would rebuilding my system with paludis be of any use?
20100207 12:47:57< Smar> why it would? :)
20100207 12:48:05< Smar> paludis -i world and you’re done
20100207 12:48:11< sevis> Better dependency handling, better registration of packages..?
20100207 12:48:23< Smar> that command checks the whole system
20100207 12:48:47< Smar> and the portage2paludis script did already do the converting... if you used it :)
20100207 12:49:03< sevis> Yep, I did
20100207 12:51:12< sevis> Heh, paludis --uninstall-unused found three packages --depclean didn't see... Interesting.
20100207 12:51:21< Smar> :)
20100207 12:51:27< sevis> Anyway, I think (hope) I've got it running now, thanks :D
20100207 12:51:35< Smar> nah, didn’t really do anything :P
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20100207 13:03:37< sevis> Heh - I could never remember if it's forum.wesnoth.org or forums.wesnoth.org, and kept thinking every time I entered it. Just found out both work... xD
20100207 13:04:09< Smar> :D
20100207 13:04:27< Smar> I still don’t really use forums
20100207 13:04:47< sevis> Neither do I, although I read them once in a while.
20100207 13:05:02< Smar> :)
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20100207 17:01:50< shadowmaster> Smar: if krename seems too complicated to use, maybe you'd prefer to use Perl's prename (provided as the rename tool here via symlink) script
20100207 17:02:41< shadowmaster> it's part of the main perl package for debian systems
20100207 17:02:43< Smar> I don’t really know perl
20100207 17:02:57< shadowmaster> nah, you only need to know about regexps for using that
20100207 17:03:00< Smar> and doesn’t seem to be included in gentoo
20100207 17:03:04< Smar> I don’t :)
20100207 17:03:26< Smar> but erm, krename is good for most tasks, just weren’t able to get that one done
20100207 17:03:38< Smar> http://sooda.dy.fi/paste/?VEU :: so solved in this way
20100207 17:03:39< Smar> but -Q
20100207 17:03:41< Smar> >
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20100207 19:11:51< nomemory> every time i want to disable sound, wesnoth crashes.
20100207 19:11:56< nomemory> how do i report the bug ?
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20100207 21:27:08< heinz> where would I go in the code to disable the waving flags on the villages [or do anything else to avoid the constant updating]
20100207 21:28:43< Soliton> preferences -> advanced -> animate map
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20100207 22:03:35< heinz> oh. thanks
20100207 22:04:16< heinz> I didn't look under 'advanced'
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 08 00:00:58 2010