--- Log opened Sat Feb 13 00:00:04 2010
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20100213 08:27:07< Seanbotv20> Hello!
20100213 08:28:38< Seanbotv20> are there people here?
20100213 08:28:42< Seanbotv20> I have a question!
20100213 08:29:05< Seanbotv20> About network compatibility!
20100213 08:29:30< DDR> What is it? I probably can't help, but... fire away.
20100213 08:34:24< Seanbotv20> are all versions of wesnoth network incompatable?
20100213 08:35:16< Seanbotv20> or only major versions?
20100213 08:35:19< DDR> Anything over version 1 is compatable with other copies of the same version.
20100213 08:36:09< DDR> Ex: 1.6 is compatable with any other 1.6 release, but odd numbers (like 1.7) are not compatible with other odd numbered releases.
20100213 08:36:20< Seanbotv20> okay
20100213 08:36:42< Seanbotv20> that's less worrying than my assumption
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20100213 11:00:31< Ivanovic> moin
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20100213 12:21:39< bp0> hello, in the last mission of scepter of fire i get an error: 20100213 05:19:54 error general: Error while playing the game: game_error: Unknown unit type ''
20100213 12:21:57< bp0> then it dies
20100213 12:22:27< bp0> in stderr.txt there are several other errors before it.. all like this: 20100213 05:19:54 warning engine: player not found when trying to recall!
20100213 12:22:58< bp0> version 1.7.12
20100213 12:23:03< bp0> b5
20100213 12:23:45< VurtualRuler98> My first guess would be that the campaign is missing the unit entry for the player, it tries to find a nonexistant ''. But then again, I'm not the technical type, and I have no idea what to do.
20100213 12:23:47< VurtualRuler98> Wait for a bit until someone smart comes.
20100213 12:24:11< bp0> heh, alright
20100213 12:27:59< bp0> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28719
20100213 12:28:05< bp0> but there is no fix
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20100213 12:54:32< fendrin> bp0: it is fixed.
20100213 12:55:11< bp0> i mean there is no fix given, like a file to edit or something
20100213 12:55:24< bp0> just wait for next release
20100213 12:55:54< fendrin> bp0: get a copy of the new scenaerio file, guess simply replacing the old one will fix it.
20100213 12:56:56< bp0> where do i get that?
20100213 12:57:01< fendrin> bp0: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/9_Caverns_of_Flame.cfg?rev=40962&view=log
20100213 12:58:51< bp0> alright... here goes
20100213 12:59:30< bp0> ...nope
20100213 12:59:32< bp0> still error
20100213 12:59:59< bp0> i save the (download) link next to 40962
20100213 13:00:31< fendrin> bp0: Remember to load from the scenarios prestart savefile. A later one won't reload the scenario code from the scenario file but out of your broken savefile.
20100213 13:02:17< bp0> new bug... if you load the autosave from the previous mission, the guy will say that he will be done making the scepter in -1 turns...
20100213 13:02:21< bp0> and then -2 etc
20100213 13:02:35< bp0> *the last autosave
20100213 13:03:23< bp0> anyway, even going back and replaying the last turns of mission 8, the error still occurs on turn 1 of mission 9
20100213 13:03:38< bp0> the original error
20100213 13:04:59< bp0> "in -3 more turns I will have completed the scepter of fire"
20100213 13:05:12< bp0> heh, but the guy has come out of the crypt and he has the scepter
20100213 13:05:13< fendrin> bp0: I have to leave my home right now. But there seems to be still some issues in SoF. Please take the time and report your problems on the forum or better fill a bug report at bugs.wesnoth.org. I will take a look at them later.
20100213 13:05:30< bp0> ok
20100213 13:05:36< Ivanovic> bp0: the release fixing this is already out, get 1.7.13 and enjoy the fix!
20100213 13:06:10< Ivanovic> (basically no need to download the single file by hand)
20100213 13:06:46< fendrin> Right, sorry for the confusion. 
20100213 13:06:56< bp0> is there a version that is just a .zip, that you don't have to "install"
20100213 13:07:12< Ivanovic> not for windows
20100213 13:07:23< bp0> ic
20100213 13:07:53< Ivanovic> beside this all the installer does is extract the files, create start menu shortcuts and add a "uninstall" entry
20100213 13:08:03< Ivanovic> we don't do things via the registry or whatever
20100213 13:08:23< Ivanovic> so you can just put things onto eg a usb stick and carry it with you, pop it into a different computer and play there
20100213 13:26:18< bp0> ... same error, same place.
20100213 13:30:13< Ivanovic> zookeeper: you saw the stuff above?
20100213 13:44:06< Soliton> bp0: and you really reloaded the start-of-scenario save?
20100213 13:44:26< bp0> yes
20100213 13:46:42< Soliton> when does the error exactly happen again?
20100213 13:47:16< bp0> before turn one... units start popping up around the main guy after about 10 of them, the error.
20100213 13:47:33< bp0> Error while playing the game: game_error: Unknown unit type ''
20100213 13:47:35< Soliton> ok. and the error has no more info?
20100213 13:47:49< Soliton> i thought i made it so the unit WML is output as well.
20100213 13:48:31< bp0> well there are about 15 "20100213 06:26:01 warning engine: recall list is empty when trying to recall!" in the stderr.txt file
20100213 13:48:36< bp0> not in the game, no
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20100213 13:49:01< bp0> so, it is trying to recall too many units?
20100213 13:49:22< Soliton> some broken ones at least.
20100213 13:49:36< Soliton> got to go, later...
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20100213 14:39:07< Soliton> bp0: post a savegame to reproduce then it'll be easier to figure out what's going on.
20100213 14:53:06< zookeeper> Ivanovic, yeah, i did
20100213 14:53:37< zookeeper> yeah, it's probably trying to recall too many units.
20100213 14:54:42< zookeeper> bp0, how many recallable units do you have at that point, approximately?
20100213 14:54:58< zookeeper> (in addition to krawg, thursagan and baglur)
20100213 14:56:56< zookeeper> eh, i don't know how that piece of code has managed to work before.
20100213 14:59:12< zookeeper> i'll go get something to eat and then look at it a bit more, i guess i need to rewrite the whole auto-recall thing in that scenario, but it shouldn't be hard
20100213 14:59:22< Ivanovic> great!
20100213 15:00:03< Soliton> the recalling certainly looks pretty crazy there.
20100213 15:17:57< zookeeper> no kidding
20100213 15:27:19< zookeeper> bp0, did you upload your save anywhere?
20100213 15:27:33< zookeeper> i could use one for testing..
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20100213 17:07:01< evanton> is there a debug command to turn off the trigger that makes you lose a scenario when the time is out?
20100213 17:07:32< Ivanovic> no
20100213 17:08:28< evanton> I'd appreciate such a thing, because I'm a pathological camper in strategy games :-)
20100213 17:15:11< Ivanovic> not possible without totally screwing balancing!
20100213 17:17:40< evanton> Ivanovic: I don't understand how is balancing involved. Mainly I could use this in campains
20100213 17:17:54< Ivanovic> exactly there is does make a difference
20100213 17:18:02< Ivanovic> then you would have endless time to harvest XP
20100213 17:18:19< Ivanovic> which gives you by far stronger units in the next scenario(s)
20100213 17:19:25< sevis> Does balancing matter for campaigns, though? After all, they're single-player.
20100213 17:19:49< Ivanovic> of course balancing of difficulty level does matter
20100213 17:20:03< zookeeper> of course it doesn't.
20100213 17:20:19< evanton> Ivanovic: strong units don't guarantee you an easy life in campains
20100213 17:20:27< evanton> because the randomness factor is too big
20100213 17:20:38< Ivanovic> evanton: but you can easily level healers which *do* make a difference
20100213 17:20:43< evanton> but running out of time makes you lose 100%
20100213 17:20:49< zookeeper> -.-
20100213 17:20:49< Ivanovic> and no, randomness is not this a big factor
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20100213 17:21:00< zookeeper> he wants to screw his game up. what the f is the problem?
20100213 17:21:08< zookeeper> no, there's no debug command for that.
20100213 17:21:11< Ivanovic> then he can just place units using :debug
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20100213 17:21:18< evanton> zookeeper: no need to be rude :)
20100213 17:21:20< zookeeper> you can remove the turn limits from the scenario files
20100213 17:28:33< Soliton> if you want guarantees wesnoth is not the game for you.
20100213 17:29:15< Sacho> evanton: so technically, you could sit on one level, and get thousands of gold plus level 3 units because you left a few villages for your opponent to trickle in exp?
20100213 17:29:37< Sacho> Most of the campaigns are pretty easy on their "easy" setting.
20100213 17:29:47< Sacho> The time limit is there to force you to act.
20100213 17:29:54< Sacho> Otherwise the AI is easy to beat, when you take up defensive positions.
20100213 17:29:59< Sacho> Since it will just blindly charge at you.
20100213 17:30:37< Sacho> randomness is actually a low factor in most campaigns
20100213 17:30:41< Sacho> you'll have way more units than in MP
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20100213 17:32:06< evanton> Sacho: there's a big dilemma. being pwned by AI because of running out of time is frustrating. sitting on the same level to farm becomes boring very fast. I'm just looking for a setting that would allow me to tune the level of the game to my skill level :-)
20100213 17:32:16< Sacho> yes
20100213 17:32:18< Sacho> the difficulty setting.
20100213 17:32:29< evanton> that's not enough
20100213 17:32:38< sevis> evanton, I'd suggest just tweaking the individual levels, then.
20100213 17:32:41< Sacho> which campaign are you playing on the easiest level, and is frustrating you?
20100213 17:33:05< sevis> Save before completing a scenario, then reload that save and start the scenario again whenever you want.
20100213 17:33:17< Soliton> handing you victory if you just wait long enough is not something i would consider tuning to your skill level.
20100213 17:33:23< evanton> Sacho: the first one (25 levels) where Konrad shall cross the river
20100213 17:33:27< Soliton> unless waiting is all the skill you got. :->
20100213 17:33:29< sevis> I'd generally be in favour of a different system to handle completed scenarios, though.
20100213 17:33:47< Sacho> evanton: HttT has quite a few tutorials, and probably replays on how to do it.
20100213 17:34:04< evanton> Konrad is running away, but that bad chick is sending herds of knights who reach the old mage and the elf and kill them ;)
20100213 17:34:28< Sacho> Ah, I see.
20100213 17:34:34< Sacho> Well, depends what units you have at that level.
20100213 17:34:40< Sacho> I actually found it ridiculously easy.
20100213 17:34:47< evanton> Sacho: point is that I'm not advocating to change the game just because I suck at it :-)
20100213 17:34:51< Sacho> The cavalry ran into my horsemen and died.
20100213 17:35:13< evanton> with such a setting the default behavior would remain the same
20100213 17:35:40< Sacho> That setting won't really get you playing the game better
20100213 17:35:48 * Sacho shrugs
20100213 17:35:58< Sacho> Like the others said, nothing's stopping you from editing the scenarios to whatever you want.
20100213 17:36:32< Sacho> But if you have any questions on tactics regarding "normal" wesnoth, people here would be happy to help.
20100213 17:37:12< evanton> I'm reading the forums and the in-game help about units for such issues
20100213 17:37:16< evanton> but thanks
20100213 17:37:30< Sacho> If you're having problems, you should hole up with elves in the forest on the western side
20100213 17:37:53< Sacho> But in that scenario, I usually prefer to just charge out and mow down.
20100213 17:38:04< evanton> I'd be glad if the forest will be in the corner
20100213 17:38:22< Sacho> eh, cavalrymen have a pretty poor attack
20100213 17:38:29< Sacho> it's not like they'll cause a lot of casualties
20100213 17:38:36< Sacho> how much gold are you coming in the scenario with?
20100213 17:38:37< evanton> but the forest is also being reached by those nasty ogres before Konrad makes it through the river
20100213 17:38:41< Sacho> and what level ups? What level is konrad?
20100213 17:38:58< evanton> Konrad is ok, he's not involved in the game
20100213 17:38:58< Sacho> Oh, you're talking about a different scenario
20100213 17:39:01< Soliton> Sacho: he's talking about the ford of abez.
20100213 17:39:06< Sacho> Yeah.
20100213 17:39:18< evanton> Konrad is just running to cross the river
20100213 17:39:30< Soliton> why are the others not doing so, too?
20100213 17:40:10< evanton> Soliton: heh, that might be my mistake
20100213 17:40:36< evanton> I was sending onlu Konrad in hope that the others would gain some additional exp
20100213 17:40:47< evanton> when trying to hold on and cover him
20100213 17:40:53< Sacho> Do you have your mermen still?
20100213 17:41:33< evanton> yes, I was buying 5-6 of them to build a wall of them between Konrad and the orcs
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20100213 17:43:36< Sacho> there's a replay on the forum discussion thread
20100213 17:44:33< evanton> ok, will invest more time into reading strategy
20100213 17:44:43 * Sacho watches the replay
20100213 17:46:16< Sacho> bleg
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20100213 17:48:34< Sacho> I think the scenarios let horsemen level too easily :P
20100213 17:48:47< Sacho> in httt
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20100213 20:07:50< Issyl> Hi everyone.
20100213 20:08:55< Tomsik> hi
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20100213 21:46:01< Freakos> hi
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 14 00:00:12 2010