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20100216 09:09:54< Seanbotv20> Hello, a question about the BFW dedicated server that I found int he FC repo
20100216 09:10:29< Seanbotv20> Why does this require the entire data package, plus a lot of rendering libraries?
20100216 09:12:10< Seanbotv20> wesbot help
20100216 09:12:10< wesbot> Seanbotv20: I could tell you about bug(s), feature(s), task(s), patch(es), a log revision, update the topic, last seen of people... you name it.
20100216 09:12:22< Sacho> wesbot feature
20100216 09:12:32< Seanbotv20> I wondered if it could help
20100216 09:12:41< Sacho> Haven't seen it used yet.
20100216 09:13:19< Seanbotv20> though I want to run a dedicated server on this server that I don't have a GUI on
20100216 09:13:39< Seanbotv20> and I need the entire wesnoth data package to run it apprently
20100216 09:13:44< Seanbotv20> plus a whole bunch of libraries
20100216 09:13:49< Seanbotv20> for rendering
20100216 09:14:11< Seanbotv20> I just think it's really unnecessary.
20100216 09:16:05< Seanbotv20> I wanted to know what the actual dependencies for wesnothd are
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20100216 11:10:42< Ivanovic> moin
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20100216 11:35:32< Euthanatos> where can i find a list of preprocessor commands?
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20100216 11:39:53< Ivanovic> what do you mean with preprocessor commands?
20100216 11:40:12< Ivanovic> do you want the existing macros or just what is possible eg #define and the likes?
20100216 11:40:21< Euthanatos> what is possible
20100216 11:40:25< Euthanatos> not macros
20100216 11:40:26< Ivanovic> rough guess: should all be available in the wiki
20100216 11:40:32< Ivanovic> search for wml reference
20100216 11:40:35< Euthanatos> it's not...not that I've found
20100216 11:40:45< Euthanatos> yeah i've searched that page
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20100216 11:41:08< Ivanovic> there are not many preprocessor commands!
20100216 11:41:20< Euthanatos> specifically loking for: #wmllinit #wmlindent
20100216 11:41:26< Ivanovic> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PreprocessorRef
20100216 11:41:33< Euthanatos> Nothing there either
20100216 11:41:39< Ivanovic> ah, those are *not* wml preprocessor stuff
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20100216 11:41:52< Ivanovic> they are for the external tools wmllint and wmlindent
20100216 11:41:54< Euthanatos> I've been searching for several days at leisure 
20100216 11:42:39< Euthanatos> where would I look to figure out what those do?
20100216 11:42:48< Ivanovic> IIRC the only place where this is "documented" is in the scripts
20100216 11:43:20< Ivanovic> asked esr to join in here (he wrote those python scripts), but he is probably sleeping atm
20100216 11:44:16< Ivanovic> but those are *NOT* relevant for ingame
20100216 11:44:32< Ivanovic> that is: the game itself does completely ignore them since # also does start a plain comment
20100216 11:45:08< Ivanovic> they are there to eg allow some basic spellchecking and syntax checking using wmlling
20100216 11:45:30< Ivanovic> (excluding things, defining "correct" spelling, ...)
20100216 11:46:06< Euthanatos> SO if I'm trying to track donw a bug in a scenario...odds are that's not part of whatver bug I'm experiencing...
20100216 11:47:31< zookeeper> if you need help with debugging a scenario, just say so
20100216 11:48:20< Euthanatos> yes well...I'm still learnign WML....doing this task as a sort of way to familiarize myself with WML
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20100216 11:59:26< Ivanovic> only the preprocessor stuff mentioned on the wiki page is relevant for ingame, the rest is ignored
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20100216 13:10:58< Euthanatos> Wow...this can't be an ANL bug...it's got ot be a client bug
20100216 13:12:07< Euthanatos> The most goddawefully annoying bug ever ~,^
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20100216 13:49:32< Becquerel> hmmm
20100216 13:49:47< Becquerel> apart from TROW, which campaigns contain/refer to the drakes?
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20100216 14:23:08< Ivanovic> Euthanatos: if you described what the problem with ANL is, you would get to know if this can be ANL itself or an engine bug
20100216 14:23:26< Ivanovic> since ANL is damn complicated it can easily be a problem with ANL, even if it appears to be really weird
20100216 14:23:51< Euthanatos> I suppose it's possible but from the nature i always suspected it was an engine/client bug
20100216 14:24:20< Euthanatos> When making ANL with UMS anyone who leaves or is kicked without being deslotted bugs the slot
20100216 14:24:28< Euthanatos> and forces random on the next player that fills that slot
20100216 14:24:43< Ivanovic> Becquerel: there are drakes mentioned in other campaigns, too
20100216 14:24:47< Euthanatos> from the faction= or faction_from_recruit= keys
20100216 14:25:01< Euthanatos> I tried it with both
20100216 14:25:42< Euthanatos> I'd planned ot dig around on the bug reports and see if it's posted or post it myself if not
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20100216 14:27:42< Ivanovic> Becquerel: http://pastebin.com/mb9fc16
20100216 14:27:57< Ivanovic> that is a list of scenarios where drakes are at least mentioned, often in recruit lists
20100216 14:28:01< Ivanovic> (there are some more)
20100216 14:28:40< Becquerel> awesome, thanks
20100216 14:28:50< Becquerel> what d'you mean by more?
20100216 14:30:11< Ivanovic> eg in one scenario in eastern invasion one side can recruit sky drakes
20100216 14:30:21< Ivanovic> though it is not a "real" drake faction there
20100216 14:30:35< Becquerel> oh, right
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20100216 14:30:47< Becquerel> that's okay, I'm just looking for lore references
20100216 14:31:11< Becquerel> althought a gryphon who can recruit drakes is silly anyways
20100216 14:31:17< Becquerel> -t
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20100216 15:05:29< kcaze> Hi, I'm new to IRC so, is it usually so quiet?
20100216 15:05:52< sevis> Until someone says something, you could say it is.
20100216 15:06:05< sevis> After that, it can get reasonably loud.
20100216 15:06:29< kcaze> I see, well it's just that when I type /names, a huge list pops up
20100216 15:06:47< kcaze> So I'd assume that there would be a lot of people talking.
20100216 15:07:03< Becquerel> everyone idles
20100216 15:07:08< Becquerel> except the people who don't
20100216 15:07:35< kcaze> can you check who's idle?
20100216 15:08:09< Becquerel> sadly not unless they use /away
20100216 15:08:11< sevis> Say something ridiculous and see who laughs.
20100216 15:08:31< sevis> (Or something outrageous and see who disagrees)
20100216 15:10:22< kcaze> okay, well, i'll just lurk and see if anything happens
20100216 15:10:53< sevis> Eh, yeah, that's what most people do. You can see the result.
20100216 15:13:21< zookeeper> kcaze, yes, it's normal that it's so quiet.
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20100216 15:30:38< VurtualRuler98> without IRC's magical quietness, a 100 user irc channel would be unbearable.
20100216 15:31:05-!- Jequ [~tapani@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-feafdf00-227.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20100216 15:31:18< VurtualRuler98> 1000+ user linux channels would require a gigabit connection to handle.
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20100216 15:40:25< Euthanatos> It's usually pretty quit in here till anyone says anything about an OS
20100216 15:42:12< VurtualRuler98> 1300 people talking about ubuntu, how bout that.
20100216 15:42:30< VurtualRuler98> It's as popular here as... elvis. Elvis. Or the president.
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20100216 16:25:29< Sacho> you have a lot of people sitting on a lot of channels that they are interested in.
20100216 16:25:40< Sacho> Some people are on over 20 channels while working and such.
20100216 16:25:52< Sacho> Obviously, they can't actively be chatting on all those :)
20100216 16:25:55< Sacho> Meaningfully, at least.
20100216 16:26:13< Cyber_Rock> is there any difficult multiple-scenario MP map like World Conquest... i am talking of difficult AI and hard winning conditions
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20100216 16:35:51< Sacho> heh, difficult AI :s
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20100216 17:15:30< SK2> hi
20100216 17:15:44< SK2> are there server troubles?
20100216 17:16:41< SK2> 'connection timed out'
20100216 17:18:47< happygrue> SK2: how about now?
20100216 17:19:38< SK2> still
20100216 17:19:44< happygrue> works for me
20100216 17:19:54< happygrue> which version are you using?
20100216 17:20:06< SK2> stable
20100216 17:20:17< SK2> 1.6.5
20100216 17:20:24< happygrue> you are unable to connect?
20100216 17:20:28< happygrue> or you are timing out in a game?
20100216 17:20:43< SK2> cant get the server list
20100216 17:21:31< SK2> reading from server 0% - then 100% AND "CONNECTION TIMED OUT"
20100216 17:21:38< happygrue> what OS?
20100216 17:21:51< SK2> vista
20100216 17:22:06< SK2> ill reconnect my internet
20100216 17:22:08< happygrue> have you tried rebooting?
20100216 17:22:26< happygrue> yeah, and that sort of thing.  The server seems fine.
20100216 17:23:19< happygrue> have you tried connecting to an alternate?
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20100216 18:28:06< isaac> o?
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20100216 18:32:20< morphles> what is popule turn time limit in multiplayer games?
20100216 18:32:41< morphles> (i have only played with my friend without time limit, but i know on official server most games use time limit)
20100216 18:37:47< krotop> on non-competitive gaming, no timer is the most popular setting
20100216 18:38:18< morphles> oh
20100216 18:38:40< krotop> if you play duels on the ladder, the best is to see in the ladder rules
20100216 18:40:42< morphles> no for now i dont intendt to play ladder :)
20100216 18:41:02< krotop> however, for people wanting some fast team games on small maps like Isa'ar cross
20100216 18:41:31< krotop> they often set a tank of around 5min, which is a bit short for team chat
20100216 18:42:13< krotop> but you may, anyway, always find people who think you are too slow, just avoid them ;)
20100216 18:42:18< morphles> btw i once asked but dunno if i got answer or i forgot,
20100216 18:42:24< morphles> if terrain is labelad as two types
20100216 18:42:36< morphles> witch one will be used when calculating movement cost?
20100216 18:42:39< morphles> better or worse?
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20100216 18:43:14< krotop> it really depends on the terrain:
20100216 18:43:38< Blarumyrran> eg water villages have water move-cost, mountain villages have village move-cost
20100216 18:44:14< morphles> and i guess/it seems you cant deduce this even using labels
20100216 18:44:26< morphles> ie (flat,shalow)
20100216 18:44:32< morphles> doesnt mean it will take flat?
20100216 18:44:34< zookeeper> there's no indicator on the screen which tells you, no
20100216 18:45:00< zookeeper> so you'll just have to check by selecting a unit and checking the movement/defense on that terrain and deducing from that
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20100216 18:46:04< zookeeper> well, some of the terrain descriptions in the in-game help do mention how they work, but i think not all.
20100216 18:46:35< morphles> ech
20100216 18:46:43< morphles> id say that quite a problem here
20100216 18:46:57< krotop> anyway it is often more convenient to use the former method : click on the unit then move the mouse around
20100216 18:46:59< morphles> it should be easyier to tell what will be used when
20100216 18:47:17< zookeeper> morphles, sure, i think everyone agrees it'd be good if it was somehow immediately obvious
20100216 18:47:27< morphles> like labeling :)
20100216 18:47:31< morphles> otoh
20100216 18:47:36< morphles> it might be unit dependant
20100216 18:47:39< zookeeper> labeling means what exactly?
20100216 18:47:52< krotop> it is unit dependant indeed
20100216 18:47:54< morphles> uperr right corner
20100216 18:47:58< morphles> shows terrain type
20100216 18:48:01< morphles> of selected hex
20100216 18:48:03< zookeeper> well there's not really much space there
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20100216 18:48:53< zookeeper> and yes, it depends on the unit anyway, so it wouldn't help much anyway
20100216 18:49:27< krotop> look next to the hex coordinates after selecting a unit, you'll see both defense and move cost
20100216 18:49:45< morphles> oh
20100216 18:49:46< morphles> cool
20100216 18:49:54< morphles> just what is needed
20100216 18:49:55< morphles> thanks
20100216 18:50:00< krotop> you're welcome
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20100216 19:19:31< morphles> hm
20100216 19:19:33< morphles> one more thing
20100216 19:19:40< morphles> i just hosted game on official
20100216 19:19:55< morphles> and from hosted game there is no way to whisper to friend
20100216 19:20:03< morphles> or i must use some command
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20100216 21:11:46< morphles> im very dissapointed with wesnoths lobby
20100216 21:12:14< morphles> no sroting of any kind
20100216 21:12:23< morphles> very hard to find something
20100216 21:12:30< Ivanovic> which version?
20100216 21:12:35< Ivanovic> that is: there is filtering!
20100216 21:13:14< Ivanovic> and yeah, the lobby was completely rewritten since the release of the 1.6.x stable series
20100216 21:13:25< morphles> i have 1.6.5
20100216 21:13:28< morphles> terrible :(
20100216 21:13:31< Ivanovic> (and some stability problems are the main reason why 1.8 is not out yet)
20100216 21:13:45< Ivanovic> so if you want to see the improved lobby, use 1.7.13
20100216 21:14:08< morphles> ill wait for 1.8 then :)
20100216 21:15:26< Ivanovic> there, if you eg want to see all games that include "age of heroes" (basically an era, but someone could use it as game name, then it would appear, too) you just type "age of heroes" into the filter box, hit enter and only get games that include this string
20100216 21:15:58< morphles> nah i want to quickly find and joing game my friend names :)
20100216 21:16:49< Ivanovic> yes, there your friends are listed seperately in the right pane
20100216 21:17:01< Ivanovic> and you can also just have games listed that include your friends
20100216 21:18:37< morphles> is this in 1.6 ?
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20100216 21:22:09< Ivanovic> these are 1.7.x features
20100216 21:22:18< morphles> oh
20100216 21:22:18< Ivanovic> but i *think* 1.6.5 also offers a filter box
20100216 21:22:29< morphles> dont see anything like that :)
20100216 21:22:45< morphles> well i hope 1.8 wil be better :)
20100216 21:23:31< Ivanovic> right, there is no filter box available, my bad
20100216 21:23:44< Ivanovic> you really should give 1.7.13 a try, you might like the new features of the lobby
20100216 21:23:57< Ivanovic> (they make it a *lot* easier to use, even rooms are now possible)
20100216 21:24:49< morphles> i belive you ;)
20100216 21:24:59< morphles> just my connectins isnt fastest so
20100216 21:25:04< morphles> dont wanna dl too much :)
20100216 21:25:58< morphles> btw there was some discusion awhile (started by me, doesnt matter what it was abut) it kinda hit the point about how there is not much space for gui stuff
20100216 21:26:09< morphles> and i said that some elements are too big
20100216 21:26:12< morphles> like sliders in host game
20100216 21:26:17< morphles> maybe buttons
20100216 21:26:21< morphles> and one more question
20100216 21:26:28< morphles> is there a way to set game font?
20100216 21:26:53< morphles> cause i think if elements were scalable and you could select font
20100216 21:27:03< Ivanovic> there probably is, though we currently are in a rather bad situation that a rewrite of the gui system is in progress
20100216 21:27:04< morphles> it would be much easier to free some space on lower resolutios
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20100216 21:27:11< morphles> oh
20100216 21:27:13< morphles> :)
20100216 21:27:17< Ivanovic> so we have basically two places where things for the gui are defined
20100216 21:28:01< Ivanovic> that is what the lobby in 1.7.13 looks like: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=85065
20100216 21:29:17< morphles> seems better :)
20100216 21:29:23< Ivanovic> it is
20100216 21:29:57< Ivanovic> eg if you activate the "friends" box you just get games where at least one of your friends participates, inverting this one you only get games without them
20100216 21:30:07< morphles> still considering how there was this one guy who complaind about space fro guie elemetns
20100216 21:30:14< Ivanovic> on the right you can select if you want to have your friends shown first or if you just want it alphabetically
20100216 21:30:16< Ivanovic> and so on
20100216 21:30:27< Ivanovic> there is no space!
20100216 21:30:41< morphles> i think there is places there space could be conserved:)
20100216 21:30:45< Ivanovic> and yes, at lower resolutions the lobby does not look really good!
20100216 21:30:47< morphles> like ie
20100216 21:31:10< morphles> Multiplayer lobby in big letter duno mabye better use smalled more contrasting letters and save soem pixels :)
20100216 21:31:17< morphles> and one thing in particular
20100216 21:31:27< morphles> scrollbars are definetly to wide
20100216 21:31:46< Ivanovic> have a look at how things look on small but really high res touchscreens
20100216 21:32:02< Ivanovic> there you do *want* these wide scrollbars to be able to use your finger on them!
20100216 21:32:10< morphles> hm like iphone? :)
20100216 21:32:20< morphles> heh your targeting a lot of platforms 
20100216 21:32:21< Ivanovic> for example like the iphone
20100216 21:32:27< Ivanovic> or the n900 or the pandora
20100216 21:32:38< morphles> you need vector gui fro such flexiblity
20100216 21:32:43< morphles> raster gui sucks fro flexibility
20100216 21:32:59< Ivanovic> sure, with the last two you also have a stylus, but not having to get it out is nice, too
20100216 21:33:21< Ivanovic> vector based is not the cure for every illness!
20100216 21:33:41< Ivanovic> that is: the way the current wesnoth gui is built is basically variable
20100216 21:34:15< Ivanovic> some minimum values are defined and with those you use some "hard" places where to have stuff
20100216 21:34:19< morphles> but button sizes seem fixed pixelwise no matter whar resolution
20100216 21:34:27< Ivanovic> eg look at the game in 1920x1200, the right bar is still the same size
20100216 21:35:03< Ivanovic> just because of using a different resolution you do not *want* some elements to change so that they do stay usable
20100216 21:35:19< morphles> i understand that
20100216 21:35:55< Ivanovic> if you "just" want to scale the whole interface around using vector based graphics is perfect
20100216 21:36:11< Ivanovic> but if you don't want that it is perfectly fine and easier to base things on raster
20100216 21:37:22< morphles> well scalign is not too bad
20100216 21:37:42< morphles> esp if you can define some constraints on how to scale
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20100216 21:37:51< morphles> (ie qt/gtk spacers and stuf)
20100216 21:38:11< morphles> you bild gui on some minimal size an then scale according to constraints
20100216 21:38:21< morphles> ok gtg away :)
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20100216 21:44:45< sevis> G'evening, does anyone by any chance know when 1.7.13 is supposed to display notifications? I got one, but none since then.
20100216 21:45:22< [sky]> I know you get one when it's your turn...
20100216 21:45:43< sevis> Hm, in all cases? Or just when Wesnoth is not the main window?
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20100216 21:46:10< [sky]> Just when it's not your main window...
20100216 21:46:18< [sky]> But I don't know when else you're supposed to get them.
20100216 21:47:39< Ivanovic> sevis: when it is a new players turn and wesnoth is *not* in focus
20100216 21:48:15< sevis> Ivanovic: Thanks, I have the feeling it isn't working, will check again tomorrow.
20100216 21:48:39< Ivanovic> right, and only in multiplayer
20100216 21:48:46< Ivanovic> no notifications for singleplayer!
20100216 21:49:17< sevis> Aha, will keep that in mind, then.
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 17 00:00:18 2010