--- Log opened Mon Feb 22 00:00:20 2010
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20100222 10:46:51< Ivanovic> moin
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20100222 16:31:15< charwood> Test
20100222 16:32:38< charwood> Is ##c++ locked to people to people who aren't registered?
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20100222 16:48:10< zookeeper> charwood, what?
20100222 16:49:42< charwood> zookeeper: I don't know.  I thought it was maybe my IRC client, but for some reason today neither kvirc nor konversation can send messages to ##g++ or ##c++.
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20100222 16:50:02< zookeeper> oh, you meant a channel.
20100222 16:50:14< zookeeper> no idea
20100222 16:52:30< charwood> Yeah, not sure what the deal is.  Although there are some pretty competent c++ users around here I'd imagine.  So if anyone wants to take a look, I can't figure out why msvc is fine with this code but g++ says "expected ';' before it" on line 31.  http://codepad.org/JahNMLTX
20100222 16:53:04< charwood> The code previously compiled on both architectures but I changed SortedList to a template class and now g++ seems angry about other template class usage in the file.
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20100222 16:54:16< charwood> On a more on-topic related note, why is it that the unit art on the Wesnoth homepage differs from the unit art in the actual game? (as of 1.8 beta4 I believe).
20100222 16:55:59< zookeeper> more specifically?
20100222 16:57:10< charwood> I think the stalwart.
20100222 16:57:27< charwood> Or maybe it's a guardsman.  Can't really fire up wesnoth right now as I'm at work.
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20100222 18:03:08< pessoa> save&load is still the best thing since sliced bread for wesnoth
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20100222 18:17:27< happygrue> shadowmaster: http://xkcd.com/705/  This made me think of you, for some reason.  ;)
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20100222 18:27:26< pessoa> do commands like #ifdef still exist in wesnoth 1.8, or are they replaced with lua?
20100222 18:28:43< Ivanovic> uhm, of course the preprocessor stuff is still there
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20100222 19:28:37< Johannes13> Where I can download Wesnoth? sf.net seems to to be down.. :/
20100222 19:31:19< Ivanovic> sourceforge i'd say
20100222 19:31:38< Johannes13> hehe
20100222 19:32:26< Ivanovic> though you can of course try google to find some non sourceforge mirror
20100222 19:34:14< Johannes13> :)
20100222 19:34:42< Johannes13> or I keep playing 1.4
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20100222 19:57:28< Gambit> Hey shadowmaster about our conversation yesterday; When you point wesnoth towards a shortcut (e.g. space.lnk) it throws up a "nested quoted string" error.
20100222 19:57:46< Gambit> Assuming one can solve that, they would be able to break out of the add-ons directory?
20100222 19:59:45< Gambit> be right back.
20100222 20:02:13-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-180.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100222 20:03:39< Gambit> Back.
20100222 20:07:43< Blarumyrran> Not that I knew what your conversation was about; but afaik .lnk files are just files that contain target location name; real windows links don't have extensions
20100222 20:08:08-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has joined #wesnoth
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20100222 20:10:33< Gambit> How do I register for this? I want to set this up for pidgin and it's asking for a password
20100222 20:10:47 * Gambit doesn't have an IRC client
20100222 20:11:23-!- qemqemqem [~quassel@128.151.29.168] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 20:11:25 * Gambit barely knows what IRC is
20100222 20:18:28-!- Grickit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 20:18:38< Grickit> Testing
20100222 20:18:42< Gambit> Yay
20100222 20:18:51-!- Gambit [~43ea74f4@gateway/web/freenode/x-vrgrmvlbrgafosub] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
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20100222 20:21:45< Gambit> bah someone registered Gambit
20100222 20:24:28< Gambit> Anyway Blarumyrran when you go to properties and details
20100222 20:24:34< Gambit> it lists itself as space.lnk
20100222 20:24:38-!- DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.196] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 20:24:54< Blarumyrran> what are prorperties and details, and what is space.lnk
20100222 20:25:05< Blarumyrran> what lists itself as space.lnk*
20100222 20:25:11< Gambit> But you're probably right about the contents of the file.
20100222 20:25:13< Gambit> The shortcut.
20100222 20:25:22< Gambit> When you right click it and go to the details tab.
20100222 20:26:17< Blarumyrran> It's strange that .lnks are so big though
20100222 20:26:51-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-183118.reshall.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100222 20:26:53< Gambit> Yeah, for only containing a url. That's what made me think they did contain instructions.
20100222 20:27:25< Gambit> I was hoping the OS would step in when wesnoth tried to read the shortcut and redirect it. (I don't know how shortcuts actually work)
20100222 20:27:40< Gambit> Are you sure they only contain the location?
20100222 20:28:44< Blarumyrran> I dunno, when I try to open a .lnk in xvi32, it opens the target file instead
20100222 20:30:33< Gambit> I made a shortcut to a map in the same folder as the map, and pointed wesnoth at the shortcut instead. It apparently gets something because it tells me  there is a nested quoted string on line one. But it is line one of the shortcut itself. Not line one of the target. :(
20100222 20:30:52< Gambit> I wonder if I try opening it in the map editor.
20100222 20:31:32< Gambit> "A map without a header is not supported"
20100222 20:35:39< Blarumyrran> Okay, i copied a .lnk and renamed it .txt, and opened in xvi32 and it contains the address and parts of it some 4-5 times (with some extra spaces between characters, and some undecipherable stuff but not much)
20100222 20:37:48< Gambit> What I always thought was that when you try to open a shortcut, the OS sees that, and points the program to the proper file (regardless of what program). So that way any errors would be in regards to the target, and not the shortcut itself. This doesn't seem to be the case though.
20100222 20:38:46-!- Deformative [~joe@141.212.212.126] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 20:38:50< Gambit> Hmm it won't let me rename shortcuts here.
20100222 20:38:56< Gambit> space.txt.lnk
20100222 20:39:27< Blarumyrran> what.
20100222 20:39:48< Gambit> When I try to rename it to .txt, I get double extensions.
20100222 20:39:55< Blarumyrran> "copy myprogram.lnk aaa.txt"
20100222 20:40:24-!- DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100222 20:41:04< Gambit> Nope. "space.lnk" -> "aaa.txt.lnk"
20100222 20:41:14< Blarumyrran> in cmd, i mean
20100222 20:45:23< Gambit> Hex editor?
20100222 20:45:47< Blarumyrran> what
20100222 20:45:59< Blarumyrran> cmd isn't a hex editor, don't you know what cmd is?
20100222 20:46:11< Gambit> Yes I know what cmd is.
20100222 20:46:16< Gambit> I was asking if you had a hex editor.
20100222 20:46:22< Blarumyrran> yeah, xvi32
20100222 20:46:27< Gambit> doh XD
20100222 20:46:50< Gambit> It also contains the name of the PC.
20100222 20:47:01< Blarumyrran> mhm
20100222 20:47:21< Gambit> meh I just opened it in notepad.
20100222 20:47:25 * Gambit doesn't have a hex editor
20100222 20:47:43< Gambit> There don't appear to be any quotes in the file though. :s
20100222 20:48:41< Gambit> Have you virus scanned xvi32? Would you recommend it?
20100222 20:49:29< Blarumyrran> It's a really old program, and eg my brother had used it for ages, and some people on #Windows said it's the best free one for windows
20100222 20:50:01< Blarumyrran> (but they also said it sucks compared to hex workshop, which costs money, so I never tried it)
20100222 20:50:16< Gambit> I guess this experiment dies here. Shadowmaster already said he didn't like the results I was shooting for anyway.
20100222 20:53:24< Gambit> This is going to sound retarded but: I wish there weren't bad people. If we didn't have to worry about security and abuses with every little thing there could be so much more (and that goes for everything ever; not just wesnoth).
20100222 20:54:39< Gambit> Of course even with security measures out of the picture there's still that whole "macro substitution always gets done at the begining" thing <.<
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20100222 21:18:28< Sacho> xvi is decent
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20100222 21:19:18< Sacho> doesn't vista have symlinks?
20100222 21:20:06< Blarumyrran> It does, but it does not use them (at all?) by itself, and lets you only make them with a cmd command
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20100222 21:36:19< Gambit> Symlinks?
20100222 21:37:22< Gambit> -reading wikipedia entry on them- They can't even point to different disks so I doubt they can point towards the internet.
20100222 21:38:05< Soliton> an excellent deduction.
20100222 21:39:58< Gambit> Though this behaviour would be prefered "Symbolic links are automatically resolved by the file system. Any software  programs, upon accessing a symbolic link, will see the target instead, whether  the program is aware of symbolic links or not."
20100222 21:40:51< fendrin> Gambit: you are confusing hard and soft links
20100222 21:41:46< Gambit> Probably, since I'm learning about them right now.
20100222 21:44:06< Soliton> hard links are basically the same file and those can not span partitions.
20100222 21:44:25< Gambit> Those're what "symlinks" are right?
20100222 21:44:28< Soliton> both links are resolved at the fs level unlike that joke from ms.
20100222 21:44:46< Soliton> no, symlinks are soft links.
20100222 21:45:12< Gambit> So then the problem I'm having is because I'm on windows. Thier shortcuts aren't handeled by the filesystem?
20100222 21:45:29< Soliton> not those .lnk files at least, yeah.
20100222 21:45:44< Gambit> What would happen if I pointed wesnoth to a hard link that went outside the ~add-ons folder?
20100222 21:46:09< Ivanovic> a download can not come with a hardlink
20100222 21:46:14< Soliton> it'd be that file it points to.
20100222 21:46:14< Ivanovic> that is not how they work!
20100222 21:47:41-!- shadowm_outdoors [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 21:48:11< Gambit> Right, but would it actually work Soliton? The only reason I am messing with links at all, is because wesnoth won't go outside it's own folders.
20100222 21:48:37< shadowmaster> Gambit: .lnk files are binary files
20100222 21:49:02< Soliton> wesnoth does not care about your linking games so yes.
20100222 21:49:22< Soliton> provided that you use actual links not those .lnk files.
20100222 21:49:41< shadowmaster> forget it. It won't work. Desist now.
20100222 21:49:44< Gambit> lol and "actual links" can't do what I want D:
20100222 21:49:44< fendrin> Gambit: wesnoth works from every location. (where you have the right to execute files)
20100222 21:50:11< Soliton> Gambit: what are you trying to do?
20100222 21:50:54< Gambit> Well wesnoth's maps and scenarios don't have to be .map and .cfg right? So if you pointed them at a .php file; the server would interperet the php and output plaintext (map or scenario) to wesnoth.
20100222 21:51:21< Gambit> You could have maps that varied based on real world time of day.
20100222 21:51:26< Gambit> For example.
20100222 21:51:28< shadowmaster> Wesnoth works with filesystems, not URIs
20100222 21:51:30< Soliton> "the server"?
20100222 21:51:36< Gambit> The server where the php file is.
20100222 21:51:40< Gambit> The webserver.
20100222 21:51:53< shadowmaster> you can't have a remote file served by a web server included by wesnoth
20100222 21:52:02< Soliton> if you have a fs that transparently works with webservers...
20100222 21:52:10< Gambit> "fs"?
20100222 21:52:16< Soliton> filesystem
20100222 21:52:25< Soliton> like sshfs
20100222 21:52:41< shadowmaster> that would be chaeating
20100222 21:52:50< shadowmaster> *cheating
20100222 21:53:16< Gambit> At the moment I can't even get it to include maps with absolute file paths.
20100222 21:53:25< Gambit> Hence: shortcuts.
20100222 21:54:43< fendrin> PhP generated scenarios via a filesystem weblink?
20100222 21:54:49< Gambit> Yes
20100222 21:55:12< Gambit> Or more specifically Coldfusion generated scenarios, but I figured more of you would be familiar with PHP
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20100222 21:55:42< shadowmaster> I think you really need to explain why you need such a thing
20100222 21:56:03< Gambit> Just to see if it's possible.
20100222 21:56:08< shadowmaster> er... sorry, I forgot that KISS doesn't apply to you.
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20100222 21:56:58< Gambit> I just like doing new things -shrug-
20100222 21:57:12< shadowmaster> no, you like doing ridiculously complex things :)
20100222 21:58:04< Gambit> Thier rediculous complexety is the reason they're still new.
20100222 21:58:30< Gambit> Of course when you get shortcuts involved, crossplatformness flies out the window I imagine...
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20100222 21:59:57< Gambit> So then would this work on... ubuntu?
20100222 22:00:15< Gambit> Oh wait there's still the whole "Can't point towards the internet" thing.
20100222 22:00:22< Soliton> if there is a httpfs or so, yes.
20100222 22:03:49< Gambit> If I had gotten this working, my next step would have been requesting some way to delay macro substitution in Wesnoth.
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20100222 22:04:13< Gambit> Because then wesnoth could ask for a map or bit of scenario at a .php file with url parameters
20100222 22:04:17< shadowmaster> Gambit: and we'd kill you for that. Seriously.
20100222 22:04:28< Gambit> It would have been able to send data to the server :D
20100222 22:04:34< shadowmaster> I mean, have you ever researchedd what a preprocessor is?
20100222 22:04:39< Gambit> webserver >.>
20100222 22:04:41< shadowmaster> *even researched
20100222 22:05:11< Gambit> I vaugely remember a forum thread about it.
20100222 22:05:33< shadowmaster> you did not do the research. go back to it and don't mention that idea until you finish
20100222 22:05:58< Gambit> Well even if I did  the research and came back and asked and someone did it. Part 2 of the idea can't stand without Part 1.
20100222 22:06:13< shadowmaster> right now you are suggesting an idea without even knowing exactly what you are suggesting
20100222 22:06:17< Gambit> I'll go do the research anyways though because I'm bored enough to be thinking up these ideas XD
20100222 22:06:21< shadowmaster> or what it involves
20100222 22:07:29< Soliton> just let the php script do the macro expansion.
20100222 22:07:40< Gambit> ?
20100222 22:09:07-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth
20100222 22:09:14< Gambit> No I mean like let's say you had an event on player 1's leaders death and it would store player 1's leader and then include {http://www.fakeurl.org/deathstats.php?name=$player1.name}
20100222 22:09:47< Gambit> deathstats.php would go to the database entry for $player1.name and increment the number in the second column by one.
20100222 22:09:55-!- Zarel| [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20100222 22:10:19< Gambit> Because macro substittion is done first, the name parameter would be empty.
20100222 22:10:55< Gambit> deathstats.php would return an error. wenoth would see text sitting there all on it's lonesome, and something would happen.
20100222 22:11:12< Soliton> you'd much rather ask for a feature to load web sites from WML.
20100222 22:11:32< Soliton> not make non-sensical stuff with the preprocessor.
20100222 22:11:46< Gambit> You know... that would work :o
20100222 22:12:11< Gambit> I think I'll file a FR later
20100222 22:13:02 * shadowmaster hides
20100222 22:13:30< Gambit> You'd have to be able to tell wesnoth whether the page you were loading was sending back info, or just to ignore it (because wesnoth is sending).
20100222 22:14:22< Gambit> Oh come on shadowmaster, this has to excite you a little bit.
20100222 22:14:52< Soliton> it's why he hides. so you can't see how excited he is.
20100222 22:14:58 * zookeeper isn't excited
20100222 22:15:06-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100222 22:16:43< Gambit> I picture an addon with a web interface that allows players to set settings that take affect when they host a game. And it also sends stats back to the web server while the game is in progress.
20100222 22:17:03< Gambit> A tcg that lets you edit your deck on its website anyone?
20100222 22:18:08< Gambit> And since wesnoth has registered accounts now for the MP lobby, you don't have to worry about two players with the same name, or someone logging in as a different user when they're not on.
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20100222 22:19:13< zookeeper> why would i want to edit my deck on a website instead of when i actually start playing?
20100222 22:19:18< Soliton> we're not going to implement a feature that allows a client to tell the server where to connect to...
20100222 22:19:26< Gambit> Because the website can save your deck
20100222 22:19:28< Gambit> The game can't
20100222 22:19:31< fendrin> Gambit: I realy dislike your forum avatar. Must have been a childhood thing with japanes anime.
20100222 22:20:10< Gambit> What do you mean Soliton?
20100222 22:20:34< Soliton> the connections won't come from the server so all bets are off.
20100222 22:21:02< Gambit> Can the connection come from the host?
20100222 22:21:49< Soliton> sure.
20100222 22:21:54< Gambit> OOS?
20100222 22:22:15< Soliton> if you want peristant storage just implement that feature though.
20100222 22:22:24< Soliton> persistant*
20100222 22:22:38< Soliton> persistent*
20100222 22:22:43< Gambit> I filed an FR on that. It't being worked on for SP only.
20100222 22:23:12< Soliton> how would it be SP only?
20100222 22:23:47< Gambit> Multiplayer requires synchronization.
20100222 22:24:20< Gambit> And with the web thing, each player could have their own version.
20100222 22:24:37< Gambit> With persistant variables, you can't reference the other people's copies.
20100222 22:25:30< Soliton> maybe you should give an actual use case instead of asking about one crazy feature after another.
20100222 22:26:17< Gambit> Design an addon around features that don't yet exist?
20100222 22:26:26< Gambit> I guess I could do that if that's what you mean.
20100222 22:26:52< Soliton> but you're not asking for general features you're usually suggesting crazy implementations.
20100222 22:27:32< Gambit> So you want me to be more specific with what it should be capable of doing?
20100222 22:28:01< Soliton> yes and less specific about implementation details.
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20100222 22:29:40< Gambit> Okay I'm confused by what you mean about implementation details. Aren't implemenation details *exactly* "what it should be capable of doing"?
20100222 22:29:42-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2b378.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host]
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20100222 22:31:09< Gambit> Like do you want example tags and attributes and what they do? Or is that "implementation details" and I should go more general than that?
20100222 22:32:32< Soliton> no, example tags could be good.
20100222 22:33:16< Gambit> Okay so then what you don't want is things like "A tcg that lets you edit your deck on its website anyone?"
20100222 22:33:24< Gambit> Example tags I will do.
20100222 22:33:36< Soliton> btw, note that i don't really care about what you want to do just pointing things out about the process. ;-)
20100222 22:33:46< Gambit> Will make a forum post later in case other users want to chime in.
20100222 22:34:20< Gambit> And that is very helpful because I don't know the process. If it improves my odds even 0.1%
20100222 22:34:33< Gambit> I would lick public transit to get persistance in wesnoth <.<
20100222 22:34:37< Gambit> lol
20100222 22:35:28< Soliton> anything but asking for a feature to preprocess websites is raising your chances i'd say. :-P
20100222 22:35:59< Gambit> *postproccess
20100222 22:36:15< Gambit> or whatever
20100222 22:37:16< Gambit> hmmm no that isn't the right word either I guess because there is such a thing as a "postproccessor" gah I should stick with WML and designing web pages
20100222 22:37:50< Gambit> Well thank you for discussing it with me.
20100222 22:43:42< Gambit> So Fendrin why do you dislike anime?
20100222 22:45:17< fendrin> I am some kind of racist.
20100222 22:46:01-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100222 22:47:03< Gambit> Okay...
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 23 00:00:28 2010