--- Log opened Thu Mar 11 00:00:00 2010
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20100311 01:18:34< fendrin> shadowmaster: Do you know where to include another directory scanned for multiplayer scenarios?
20100311 01:19:06< shadowmaster> you are massacring the poor engine, huh?
20100311 01:19:27< shadowmaster> no idea
20100311 01:22:53< fendrin> Yes, indead.
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20100311 02:17:11< norbert_> is it possible for you to tell who uploaded an add-on, I mean besides what people enter as the author?
20100311 02:17:40< norbert_> like TG Mappack 1, that was uploaded Nov 28 2009, says (on addons.wesnoth.org/1.6/) "Author: Me, stock tiles only"
20100311 02:17:45< norbert_> who exactly is "me"
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20100311 02:18:10< norbert_> no information about it in the tar.bz2
20100311 02:19:43< norbert_> probably not, I guess, maybe besides an IP address
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20100311 04:29:06< Jetrel> esr, shadowmaster, etc:  so, now there are a ton of icons that any UMC can use in core/images/icons.  These are in exactly the same format as our attack icons.
20100311 04:29:55< Jetrel> A scant few, a couple shields, are actually duplicates of existing attack icons.  Dunno what we want to do there in terms of which one to deprecate, but usually shields aren't necessarily attacks.
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20100311 04:30:04< Jetrel> We didn't have a good place for them before.
20100311 04:30:23< Jetrel> Ivanovic_:   actually useful for you to know too
20100311 04:30:26< Jetrel> so, now there are a ton of icons that any UMC can use in core/images/icons.  These are in exactly the same format as our attack icons.
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20100311 04:40:19< CIA-88> jetryl * r41539 /trunk/data/core/images/icons/ (cuirass_muscled.png helmet_conical.png): Fixed a couple off-format images.
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20100311 05:15:05< norbert_> hi, I recently installed 1.7.14-1.8beta7
20100311 05:15:23< norbert_> I choose 1440x900, but when going to fullscreen, it goes to 1680x1050 overdrive mode
20100311 05:15:31< norbert_> this problem wasn't there with beta6
20100311 05:15:43< norbert_> is this a known issue or should I report it
20100311 05:15:50< norbert_> with a bug report, I mean
20100311 05:16:18< norbert_> I tried going to another resolution and back to 1440x900 and then to fullscreen, but then I also get the overdrive problem
20100311 05:22:52< norbert_> and really, I miss tab completion in the lobby
20100311 05:23:33< norbert_> is that supposed to work
20100311 05:23:39< norbert_> if so, that's another bug report, I guess
20100311 05:24:33< norbert_> oh, that is already a bug report, it seems
20100311 05:25:46< norbert_> I will report the fullscreen thing
20100311 05:29:44< norbert_> added https://gna.org/bugs/?15577
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20100311 10:50:21< Ivanovic> moin
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20100311 12:11:59< Zarel> WAIT WHAT
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20100311 12:12:11< Zarel> "We're currently considering adding one extra faction to mainline multiplayer during the next dev cycle" -tsi
20100311 12:12:12< Zarel> WHAT
20100311 12:13:20< loonycyborg> I heard something about it.
20100311 12:13:41< Zarel> I haven't heard anything about it until now...
20100311 12:13:46< Zarel> Does anyone have details?
20100311 12:15:53< loonycyborg> tsi himself probably does :P He joins this channel occasionally.
20100311 12:16:12< zookeeper> Zarel, it's the kalifa
20100311 12:16:31< Zarel> Any details on them? Art?
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20100311 12:23:59< Ivanovic> Zarel: this stuff was added to the developers mailling list (since that is where it belongs)
20100311 12:24:12< Ivanovic> it is part of the FOSDEM thread from febuary
20100311 12:24:50< Ivanovic> https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-02/index.html
20100311 12:24:58< Ivanovic> starting with # [Wesnoth-dev] FOSDEM 2010 - First results, Nils Kneuper   (February 06, 2010 - 17:28) 
20100311 12:25:22< Ivanovic> plus some followup mails with the topic "Kalifa"
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20100311 15:22:49< fendrin> loonycyborg: Would you build another windows binary in ~5 hours?
20100311 15:23:27< loonycyborg> That is possible.
20100311 15:24:15< fendrin> loonycyborg: It's know able to write working scenarios to the disk, marking the first milestone by being a usable product.
20100311 15:24:23< fendrin> s/know/now
20100311 15:25:21< loonycyborg> You don't plan to do any more commits that should be in that release?
20100311 15:26:09< fendrin> loonycyborg: I do plan to do at least 2 more commits before the release should happen. 
20100311 15:26:59< loonycyborg> Then I'll start the process when you'll do it :)
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20100311 17:30:49< sebas_> hello in WML, where can I modify the standard user filter, for example for this tags http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/P0y4mdm5
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20100311 17:32:58< sebas_> this is often used in ai formula
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20100311 18:00:15< ghyr-easeus> Sorry for interrupting, but I have 1 question.
20100311 18:00:28< ghyr-easeus> Will the development stop after 1.8 being released?
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20100311 18:42:13< CIA-88> fendrin * r41540 /branches/fendrin_editor/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): 
20100311 18:42:14< CIA-88> Release 0.2
20100311 18:42:14< CIA-88> Writes working scenario configs into the right directory.
20100311 18:42:49< CIA-88> fendrin * r41541 /branches/fendrin_editor/data/themes/editor.cfg: New menu entry for saving scenarios.
20100311 19:04:42< CIA-88> fendrin * r41542 /branches/fendrin_editor/ (12 files in 3 dirs): 
20100311 19:04:42< CIA-88> Fixed LoW
20100311 19:04:42< CIA-88> Moved the labels into an event since they don't seem to work on toplevel.
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20100311 19:23:14< CIA-88> fendrin * r41543 /branches/fendrin_editor/src/editor/editor_display.cpp: Switched the order of owned and total villages.
20100311 19:24:59< fendrin> loonycyborg: ^That should be the release. 
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20100311 20:17:28< crimson_penguin> http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/ars_longa_vita_brevis.PNG <- presumably the method all of you must've used to learn C++ in 21 days? :D
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20100311 20:27:57< mordante> servus
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20100311 20:47:42< crimson_penguin> mordante: http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/ars_longa_vita_brevis.PNG
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20100311 20:48:35< mordante> crimson_penguin, you discovered my secret ;-)
20100311 20:49:14< crimson_penguin> :D
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20100311 20:52:24< mordante> Ivanovic, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=SoC_Information_for_Google#What_is_the_main_development_mailing_list_for_your_organization.3F_This_question_will_be_shown_to_students_who_would_like_to_get_more_information_about_applying_to_your_organization_for_GSoC_2010._If_your_organization_uses_more_than_one_list.2C_please_make_sure_to_include_a_description_of_the_list_so_students_know_which_to_use.
20100311 20:52:42< mordante> Ivanovic, it contains the irc info just like the section after it
20100311 20:54:48< mordante> Ivanovic, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Information_for_Google#Does_your_organization_have_an_application_template_you_would_like_to_see_students_use.3F_If_so.2C_please_provide_it_now.
20100311 20:55:10< mordante> section 5) should also contain Lua
20100311 20:56:00< mordante> Ivanovic, didn't Noy wanted to be a backup mentor?
20100311 20:56:08< mordante> s/mentor/admin/
20100311 20:58:51< mordante> Ivanovic, no further comment, shall I make the changes or do you want to do it?
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20100311 21:53:33< Ivanovic> mordante: change the stuff and ping me when everything is ready for copy&paste
20100311 21:54:03< Ivanovic> and it if intentional that i mention irc in the mailling list entry
20100311 21:54:20< Ivanovic> since they make it look like mailling list was the prefered method of contact, what it clearly is not for us
20100311 21:54:30< fendrin> loonycyborg: around?
20100311 21:54:43< loonycyborg> fendrin: Yes.
20100311 21:54:45< mordante> Ivanovic, ok, wasn't sure, hence the question
20100311 21:54:58< Ivanovic> though yeah, lua is missing in the list
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20100311 21:55:09< Ivanovic> and yes, noy is the backup admin
20100311 21:55:30< mordante> do you have his contact address?
20100311 21:55:38< fendrin> loonycyborg: the commits are up, please build it.
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20100311 21:55:56< noy> he doesn't but I'd rather it not be published online
20100311 21:55:56< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, lua and python should be marked as 'optional', since many things don't even touch them...
20100311 21:55:57< loonycyborg> fendrin: I've already done that.
20100311 21:56:36< mordante> oh hi noy, didn't see you entered irc
20100311 21:56:48< fendrin> loonycyborg: cool, thanks. Has the location of the binary changed?
20100311 21:57:11< loonycyborg> experimental/wesnoth-1.7.13-fendrin_editor-r41543-win32.exe
20100311 21:57:14< mordante> noy you were looking for me yesterday
20100311 21:57:24< noy> yeah, did you see the email I sent?
20100311 21:57:43< mordante> the one regarding the globe like maps?
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20100311 21:59:41< mordante> Ivanovic, since noy prefers not to have his contact address online I leave that one for you in the SoC application
20100311 22:00:15< noy> well I just don't want it publically available
20100311 22:00:49< mordante> exactly and I can only update the stuff in our wiki, I can't modify the google application
20100311 22:03:07< mordante> Ivanovic, I added Lua to section 5.1 and I'm ready with the application in the wiki
20100311 22:04:10< mordante> noy, any specific questions regarding the email?
20100311 22:04:37< noy> feasibility, desirability being two
20100311 22:05:18< mordante> not sure whether it's always wanted, for most campaigns it would be silly since you travel somewhere
20100311 22:05:35< mordante> for RPG like games it can be fun, especially with larger maps
20100311 22:05:54< mordante> so I think it should be a WML option, set by the campaign designer
20100311 22:06:09< mordante> and maybe for some maps make it an option to select in the MP screen
20100311 22:06:56< mordante> I have no idea about the impact on balancing, but I assume you thought about that
20100311 22:07:17< mordante> about feasibility... let me think
20100311 22:12:15< mordante> I think the two most important areas would be the display of the map, which keeps scrolling in a direction and show the new stuff
20100311 22:12:34< mordante> and the path find routines to do the same
20100311 22:14:03< mordante> IMO the map display in display.cpp can already benefit from some refactoring (planned at some point for gui2 as well)
20100311 22:14:30< mordante> so when you refactor that part it should be possible to add the scrolling feature
20100311 22:15:04< mordante> the pathfinder code is an area which I haven't ventured much, but maybe Crab_ knows more about it
20100311 22:18:07< Crab_> mordante: alink knows most about it. but, they way it's done, it won't be a problem if map topology is slightly different.. you'd only need to patch up A* heuristic a bit
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20100311 22:22:21< Crab_> mordante: that is, patch distance_between and get_adjacent_tiles
20100311 22:23:22< noy> mordante: I think it would be only on special maps
20100311 22:23:34< noy> like specially designed mp maps
20100311 22:25:05< mordante> Crab_, ok I already hoped/thought it shouldn't be too hard
20100311 22:26:06< fendrin> noy: What you want can be done already.
20100311 22:26:20< noy> fendrin: no, it can't
20100311 22:26:21< mordante> noy, yes exactly only for special cases, but not for all maps
20100311 22:26:32< mordante> fendrin, O_O it can? 
20100311 22:26:34< noy> I've seen the teleporter system
20100311 22:26:46< fendrin> noy: What are you missing?
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20100311 22:26:53< noy> its not the same, either in gameplay or in esthetics
20100311 22:27:12< Crab_> mordante:yes, it's almost an easycoding task.
20100311 22:27:19< fendrin> Please explain the differences.
20100311 22:27:54< mordante> Crab_, sounds promising
20100311 22:28:17< noy> Now I'm not sure how much its changed by your additions, but you go to one end of the map and you get teleported to the other side
20100311 22:28:20< noy> right?
20100311 22:28:36< fendrin> Yes
20100311 22:28:38< noy> can you attack from one side of the map to the other?
20100311 22:28:43< fendrin> yes
20100311 22:28:55< noy> how easy is it to plan a strategy doing that?
20100311 22:29:24< fendrin> Hmm, pathfinding works through the map borders.
20100311 22:29:27< noy> when you have to flip back and forth from side to side on a normal side maps
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20100311 22:29:47< noy> to plan something out
20100311 22:29:57< noy> its just awkward 
20100311 22:30:09< fendrin> I see. 
20100311 22:30:15< Crab_> mordante: i.e. 'add parameter to map which'll determine whether map is connected, and if yes, on what edges; store that parameter in a singleton such as inside resources::game_map ..
20100311 22:30:17< Crab_> mordante: ; fix distance_between to check that parameter and return distance computed in different topology (basically, "check if it's faster to wrap across edge"); fix get_adjacent_tiles to wrap over (if x<1 x=x_max ...); done.'
20100311 22:30:33< noy> and people don't want to play something like that. If it was a true wrap around map, its esthetically easy to look at and play
20100311 22:31:28< mordante> maybe the tunnels can be used for the pathfinder, or if indeed as easy as Crab_ says that won't even be needed
20100311 22:31:30< fendrin> I see, you need infinite map scrolling support.
20100311 22:31:36< noy> exactly
20100311 22:32:00< mordante> but I agree with noy that infinite map scrolling is needed to make it look sane for the users
20100311 22:32:04< noy> I think once you see it in action fendrin you'll see how useful it can be for some mp maps
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20100311 22:32:52< fendrin> noy: Right, that is a very good feature. The pathfinding part is trivial. Just fix the map_locations to return the proper neighbour.
20100311 22:33:17< fendrin> The display scrolling will be a bit harder.
20100311 22:33:18< mordante> I think it can be fun and allow new strategies, since you can approach the enemy easier from different sides
20100311 22:33:44< noy> mordante: is this too small for a gsoc project?
20100311 22:34:07< mordante> I think not the path finder is easy but the display stuff not
20100311 22:34:39< mordante> it will require some refactoring since IMO the display class is too big
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20100311 22:35:47< mordante> the class does everything, map and theme stuff, I rather see it more separated
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20100311 22:36:08< mordante> and preferably is a way that it's easier to convert to gui2 later
20100311 22:36:33< mordante> (I think/fear it's too early to convert it to gui2)
20100311 22:37:22< mordante> (which is also the idea behind the input layer changes)
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20100311 22:38:41< Crab_> it would be good if wesnoth supported alternate non-gui input layer
20100311 22:39:42< mordante> what do you exactly mean with that?
20100311 22:41:44< Crab_> "you see a wesnoth main menu. the tip of the day says: '...' the following options are available:  tutorial, campaign, multiplayer ,..."
20100311 22:42:06< Crab_> e.g. to allow to navigate the wesnoth interface from c++/lua/etc code
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20100311 22:42:27< Crab_> it would allow to test many things automatically
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20100311 22:43:23< Crab_> e.g. the LoW bug would be easily spotted that way, if there was (1) ai which can complete low 1 with significant probability of success  and (2) a way to script 'launch wesnoth, select campaigns, select low, select easy, activate said ai'
20100311 22:44:46< Crab_> also, it will allow to code a diffent gui in wesnoth will will delegate all the 'real work' to stock c++ wesnoth binary.
20100311 22:45:16< mordante> with gui2 it's easy to send an event to a certain location
20100311 22:45:51< mordante> and if you only care about the button you can also directly send an event to it
20100311 22:46:58< Crab_> so, if I launch wesnoth, spawn a new 'player' thread, and send some events , I can 'select campaigns, select low, select easy, type f, type !replace_ai 1 path/to/low1/ai<enter> activate console, type droid 1<enter>" ?
20100311 22:47:09< mordante> so I think it should be possible to do with gui2
20100311 22:47:16< Crab_> that's good :)
20100311 22:47:26< mordante> even with gui1 by pushing fake SDL events in the queue
20100311 22:47:59< Crab_> it would be interesting to try this in 1.9
20100311 22:48:38< mordante> I think if we want to use this for different things, we might want to add a cleaner interface for fake events
20100311 22:48:56< Crab_> one of the good ways to do it is" expose a 'lua console' which will connect to wesnoth via a tcp socket and send some lua commands which will be translated to gui2 events"
20100311 22:50:21< mordante> do you want to send lua events of WML structures that contain the code?
20100311 22:50:58< Crab_> I want to send lua strings (it's easy enough to encode wml using lua)
20100311 22:51:13< mordante> ok
20100311 22:51:21< Crab_> that way, in wesnoth, we can just poll the server-side of that socket during gui2 event loop, and check for 'new things to do'
20100311 22:51:30< Crab_> (and post notifications, if any)
20100311 22:52:51< Crab_> then, we'll be able to write external lua script which'll connect to wesnoth and do anything we allow to do remotely - post events, check for dialogs, ask wesnoth to take screenshots, etc
20100311 22:53:27< Crab_> for extra effect, the same codebase will allow to use gui2 from lua in WML
20100311 22:53:28< mordante> sounds interesting
20100311 22:54:00< Crab_> e.g., scenario creators will be able to interact with gui via lua commands.
20100311 22:54:59< mordante> that could be really powerful
20100311 22:55:24< noy> mordante: one issue that was pointed out about the wrap around map was that you don't want to see two images of the same thing on one screen
20100311 22:55:29< mordante> I think it would be a good idea to discuss it further another time (my bed is calling me)
20100311 22:55:34< noy> it would look confusing
20100311 22:55:36< noy> ah nm
20100311 22:55:46< Crab_> mordante: ok. good night, then
20100311 22:55:55< mordante> but I think it could be really nice
20100311 22:57:32< mordante> noy, yeah it would look confusing, but it would be possible to draw the off map area that we now have so you can only see the width
20100311 22:57:39< noy> right
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20100311 22:57:46< mordante> of course it would be nice if the map then still would scroll
20100311 22:57:48< noy> that might be a problem with zoom more than anything
20100311 22:58:00< noy> we can make a minimum size for these maps
20100311 22:58:20< mordante> wide screens can also trigger the problem
20100311 22:59:02< mordante> I initially also thought of a minimum size, but as screens tend to grow bigger you will get into problems with it at some point
20100311 23:00:05< mordante> I remember how ugly Wesnoth looked with some maps on an extremely wide screen for some of the smaller maps
20100311 23:02:36< mordante> I'm off now, night
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20100311 23:21:15< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41544 /website/start/1.8/ (10 files in 2 dirs): updated Japanese announcement translation
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20100311 23:27:49< CIA-88> ivanovic * r41545 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-manual/zh_TW.po): updated Chinese (Traditional) translation
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20100311 23:43:21< fendrin> esr: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27109
20100311 23:45:47< esr> fendrin: I'll look into it, thanks.
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20100311 23:46:31< fendrin> Ivanovic: Who does the mac builds?
20100311 23:55:55< esr> fendrin, Ivanovic: There's a real bug in the dialogue - Tallin says they've god the gold back whether or not Sisal is alive.  Really fixing it would require a string freeze exception.
20100311 23:56:11-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100311 23:56:39< loonycyborg> fendrin: crimson_penguin makes mac builds.
20100311 23:58:20< fendrin> crimson_penguin: Can you make me a mac build, please?
20100311 23:59:54< crimson_penguin> fendrin: of.. what?
--- Log closed Fri Mar 12 00:00:05 2010