--- Log opened Thu Mar 18 00:00:18 2010
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20100318 00:02:26< Crab_> ilor: btw, it
20100318 00:02:41< Crab_> it's possible to analyze wesnoth'd logs so see how often that kind of thing happens...
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20100318 00:19:24< ilor> Crab_: my guess is not very often ;P if you can cook a script to check it , I'd be curious to see the results
20100318 00:19:33< Crab_> almost done
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20100318 00:24:48< Crab_> ilor: 223 of 12624, in the last log.
20100318 00:25:23< Crab_> that's when 'game created out of order in MP server' happens.
20100318 00:26:21< Crab_> ilor: script is at http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/5S4xyhty 
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20100318 00:31:39< Crab_> ilor: and, if we check all of  2010 logs for 1.6, we'll see 3350 of 186238 games so affected.
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20100318 00:34:57< Crab_> 1.8%
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20100318 01:36:38< CIA-53> ilor * r41633 /trunk/src/multiplayer.cpp: Reset the lobby info object between lobby dialog startups -- persistance here is not handled correctly and often results in a crash. This fixes bug #15161.
20100318 01:37:30< ilor> ^ fixes yet another lobby crash...
20100318 01:37:35< ilor> wesbot: topic
20100318 01:37:38-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string/feature freeze active! | 69 bugs, 255 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100318 01:37:57< Crab_> that's good :)
20100318 01:39:04< fendrin> And how many of this bugs are postponed?
20100318 01:40:41< Crab_> fendrin: see http://tinyurl.com/evenmorebugs
20100318 01:41:00< Crab_> that's none/in progress/need info bugs
20100318 01:41:16< esr> fendrin: 25 of them.
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20100318 01:50:03< ilor> night
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20100318 03:18:21< fendrin> Desert Hunter level 2. The unit is able to trow burning bolas. I need a name for the unit and a name for the weapon.
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20100318 04:13:31< noy> anybody know what happened to that RNG thread in the forum?
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20100318 08:26:54< ilor> Ivanovic: seems to me I did fix the crash bugs I was unsure about ... that's around five ways of lobby crashing tht are no longer possible
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20100318 09:37:57 * Rhonda waves to wesbot
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20100318 10:25:44< ilor_> Crab__: out of curiosity, how did you check for the out of order ids? ;)
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20100318 10:40:37< loonycyborg> What happened to wesnoth.debian.net? :/
20100318 10:41:40< Crab__> ilor_: see the perl script in the pastebin
20100318 10:42:31< Crab__> ilor_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/5S4xyhty
20100318 10:43:54< Crab__> ilor_: basically, " foreach 'game created' line, get id and timestamp, and compare id with previous id, count&print if mismatch"
20100318 10:51:01< Rhonda> loonycyborg: What do you mean with happened to it?
20100318 10:51:02< Rhonda> Oh.
20100318 10:51:04< Rhonda> hmm
20100318 10:51:20 * Rhonda . o O ( who needs logs anyway )
20100318 10:51:49< loonycyborg> Well.. Apparently I do :P
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20100318 10:58:13< Rhonda> loonycyborg: thanks
20100318 10:59:50< loonycyborg> np
20100318 11:10:08< Rhonda> In case you are interested, the reboot somehow did leave the vserver which serves that site in a strange state.
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20100318 11:13:27< Ivanovic> moin
20100318 11:17:20< Crab__> hello, Ivanovic
20100318 11:17:48< Crab__> so, today we'll know if we're accepted into GSoC, right ?
20100318 11:18:01< Ivanovic> yes, this evenin
20100318 11:18:02< Ivanovic> g
20100318 11:33:44< Ivanovic> in about 8:30 we will know if we are in
20100318 11:35:52< Ivanovic> Crab__: since you are our "one guy fits them all" tool, maybe you could have a look at this bug and try to reproduce it? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15598
20100318 11:36:06< Ivanovic> that is some days ago yogihh asked for instructions about how to reproduce it
20100318 11:38:40< Ivanovic> and since DK is rather inactive lately, maybe you could have a look at this (formula) AI related bug you reported for him: https://gna.org/bugs/?14247
20100318 11:39:43< Ivanovic> the rest of the bug list does in fact look rather nice to me
20100318 11:40:29< Ivanovic> (of course it feels like "too many bugs still open" but many can't be fixed in the feature freeze IIRC)
20100318 11:41:34< AI0867> I'd like soliton's input on this one: https://gna.org/bugs/?15560
20100318 11:41:39< AI0867> Soliton: ^
20100318 11:43:56< Crab__> Ivanovic: I'm away from my dev environment till evening (cannot even login to gna atm). You can change the subject of #14247 to "new formula ai recruitment throws errors if there's only one recruit for a particular side, and downgrade the severity to 'minor'". It doesn't affect LoW2 - I've worked around it there by not using it on EASY. I'll take a look at it today to see if I can fix it in a proper way.
20100318 11:45:13< Ivanovic> okay, did the change and assigned it to you
20100318 11:45:19< Crab__> and ok, I'll take a look at bug #15598, too.
20100318 11:45:27< Ivanovic> in case that you don't find the time, reassign it to DK
20100318 11:48:33< Crab__> well, my main priority now is to add 4 minor things to AI before 1.8 comes out, and trying to work around bug #15560 for 1.8, by reducing the number of cases where it causes OOS, without touching code paths unrelated to [unstore_unit] advance=true
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20100318 12:38:10-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8 commits allowed till March, 24th, 12:00 GMT, afterwards "testfreeze" | string/feature freeze active! | 70 bugs, 255 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100318 14:03:37< stikonas> fendrin: I have rendered the movie you have asked without any sound, would it be ok? Music can be easily added with ffmpeg without rerendering.
20100318 14:04:50< stikonas> I can do the sound too but I have to go now, so in that case you will have to wait
20100318 14:05:27< stikonas> fendrin: http://stikonas.homelinux.org/files/wesnoth.mp4 (381 MiB, no sound)
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20100318 15:36:23< Ivanovic> i am off for some hours
20100318 15:36:38< Ivanovic> will most likely be back in time to tell you if we are in in SoC2010 or not
20100318 15:43:25< Blarumyrran> How come there are already applications if you don't even know if you're in
20100318 15:44:38< shadowmaster> just so you know how tasty Wesnoth is.
20100318 15:44:55< shadowmaster> they are more like unofficial pre-applications anyway
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20100318 16:26:23< Soliton> AI0867: well, what do you want to know?
20100318 16:29:18< Soliton> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML#Multiplayer_safety should explain where you can safely use [unstore_unit] advance=true.
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20100318 16:43:59< lfernando> I'm running latest development version
20100318 16:44:06< lfernando> and when I save games on it
20100318 16:44:54< lfernando> their versions are listed as 1.7.15+svn
20100318 16:45:19< lfernando> but when I take an older save
20100318 16:45:23< lfernando> and overwrite it
20100318 16:45:33< lfernando> it doesn't update the version number
20100318 16:45:39< lfernando> is it normal?
20100318 16:46:58< lfernando> or a minor bug?
20100318 16:50:21< Soliton> yes, removing save_index.gz should fix it.
20100318 16:53:51< lfernando> okay, ty
20100318 17:02:07< AI0867> Soliton: you changed [unstore_unit] to prevent OOS, but it still causes OOS
20100318 17:02:11< AI0867> in a different way
20100318 17:02:27< AI0867> how did it originally fail?
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20100318 17:36:41< Rhonda> Which one was the multiplayer campaign again?
20100318 17:39:19< shadowmaster> Legend of Wesmere
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20100318 17:57:18< Crab_> boucman: hi. can you take a look at http://gna.org/patch/?1538 ? it's a small 1-line patch for bug #14114
20100318 17:57:22< boucman> hey all
20100318 17:57:55< boucman> i don't have source/ compiler her, but I can look at the patch :)
20100318 17:58:39< Crab_> (the patch by itself is ok, I'm more about style/additional things/etc)
20100318 18:00:56< boucman> ok
20100318 18:01:11< boucman> is it for a potential gsocer ?
20100318 18:01:14< Crab_> yes
20100318 18:02:03 * zookeeper would like to make recall costs level-dependant in 1.9
20100318 18:02:32< boucman> ok, I can't check from here but I assume that he put himself in the right section of about. cfg ?
20100318 18:02:37< shadowmaster> if that means that higher levels would cost more to recall, then I'm all for it
20100318 18:02:49< shadowmaster> down with the Sylph spamming in my campaign! :x
20100318 18:02:53< boucman> zookeeper: mail to dev ml, I guess
20100318 18:03:31< Crab_> boucman: Miscellaneous contributors
20100318 18:03:40< boucman> Crab_: the patch seems fine, remind him to add it to his gsoc page so we can track what potential students did, commit, (i guess it's for trunk too) 
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20100318 18:07:25< CIA-53> crab * r41634 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/about.cfg src/replay.cpp): Fix bug #14114: checksum operations fail against certain scenario events. Patch #1538 by lfernando
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20100318 18:17:13< Ivanovic> Blarumyrran, shadowmaster: so far there are no "applications" as in "fully formulized proposals from students that want to be our SoC students"
20100318 18:17:16-!- boucman [~58b8e47f@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100318 18:17:30< Ivanovic> the applications that today is about is "which orgs are allowed in"
20100318 18:17:56< Blarumyrran> Yeah, I just meant the mission objectives on the wiki.
20100318 18:18:19< shadowmaster> s/(unofficial) pre-applications/$1 proposals/  then
20100318 18:18:42< shadowmaster> and yes, I know that organizations haven't been selected yet. I'm also listening to #gsoc
20100318 18:25:20< shadowmaster> hm, maybe I should checksum fortune entries so I could link them directly from the web page
20100318 18:25:27< shadowmaster> s/from/to/
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20100318 18:32:27< shadowmaster> http://shadowm.rewound.net/broken.png
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20100318 18:33:12< shadowmaster> an Apache upgrade on my laptop seems to have caused this...I don't think I'll be working on preparing the f.w.o upgrade until I understand what got broken here
20100318 18:34:54< shadowmaster> there's nothing in the logs that could give me a hint
20100318 18:37:28< Crab_> gzip compression support broken but browser still sends the headers that say 'i support it' ?
20100318 18:39:02< Blarumyrran> What's .int?
20100318 18:39:49< shadowmaster> Blarumyrran: an often misused TLD, which officially stands for international organizations' sites, but is often used to the equivalent of .internal
20100318 18:40:12< shadowmaster> Crab_: gzip compression works fine on the rest of the site that uses Serendipity and a custom software :(
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20100318 19:37:40< Ivanovic> boucman_, Crab_, mordante, shadowmaster, noy, everyone else interested: wesnoth is accepted in GSoC 2010
20100318 19:38:00< Crab_> Congratulations :)
20100318 19:38:10< isaac> yay, well done
20100318 19:42:21< boucman_> yay :)
20100318 19:42:29< boucman_> how many slots ?
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20100318 19:49:05< Ivanovic> i'll enter '3' for the moment
20100318 19:49:31< boucman_> k
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20100318 19:55:16< Ivanovic> boucman, Crab_, mordante: what are your google accounts? (so that i can send out the mentor invites)
20100318 19:56:14< boucman> boucman2 
20100318 19:57:57< Ivanovic> boucman: sent your invite, please accept in the google web interface
20100318 19:58:12< boucman> will do
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20100318 20:01:28< Ivanovic> these are the "tags" i associated with wesnoth: i_development, c++, game_development, lua, sdl, user_interface_design
20100318 20:01:42< Ivanovic> s/i_development/ai_development
20100318 20:03:32< boucman> python, maybe ? (though I don't know if we really have a python idea)
20100318 20:04:30< Crab_> Ivanovic: boost::asio
20100318 20:11:29-!- Corsix [~corsix@88-108-20-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 20:17:13< Ivanovic> http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/wesnoth
20100318 20:17:18< Ivanovic> anything else to add/change?
20100318 20:18:01< Corsix> add a direct link to the ideas page?
20100318 20:18:24< Corsix> oh, it is there after a very long whitespace gap
20100318 20:19:48< boucman> Ivanovic: could you somehow add near the official ml field that contacting us via irc is prefered ?
20100318 20:19:52< Ivanovic> yes, formatting with the strange application form looks rather broken regarding newlines/poaragraphs
20100318 20:20:05< boucman> Ivanovic: and I registered as a mentor
20100318 20:20:39< boucman> ok, leaving now, see you all later
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20100318 20:20:51< Rhonda> boucman: How to register as a mentor?
20100318 20:21:15-!- gabm [~Gabriel@132.207.234.108] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 20:21:24< Rhonda> Ah, missed that one link
20100318 20:24:12< Ivanovic> any other tags that i should add?
20100318 20:24:23< Ivanovic> current tags: ai_development, boost-asio, c++, game_development, lua, sdl, user_interface_design
20100318 20:25:22< Corsix> Are there any Lua-related ideas other than Crab_'s AI idea?
20100318 20:25:26-!- jekintrivedi [~jekin@116.72.242.56] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 20:25:34< Ivanovic> students are free to propose own ideas!
20100318 20:25:39< Ivanovic> but we don't provide one beside that
20100318 20:26:32< Crab_> Corsix: a possible area might be 'provide a way to interact with GUI code from lua scripts embedded in WML'.
20100318 20:27:21< Crab_> Corsix: example usage: a rpg-style inventory dialog which is customizable through WML and lua.
20100318 20:27:50< Crab_> Corsix: example usage: remote automated testing of wesnoth using lua script.
20100318 20:28:07< Corsix> interesting
20100318 20:30:21< Crab_> Corsix: basically, we have a shiny (&buggy) new gui, and it would be really cool to make it scriptable from user code
20100318 20:30:43< Crab_> (it will be good to talk about this with Mordante)
20100318 20:31:14< Ivanovic> Corsix: the list we provide is in general just a fraction of what is really possible/imaginable
20100318 20:31:31< Ivanovic> and no, if your idea is not on our list does *not* reduce your chances to get accepted
20100318 20:31:49< Corsix> Yes, but for people coming to Wesnoth with no prior experience, the ideas list is extremely useful
20100318 20:32:01< Ivanovic> sure
20100318 20:36:21-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 20:36:24< Corsix> For reference, I implemented ribbon UI classes for wxWidgets in last year's GSoC, and I'm very experienced with Lua and its C API, so I'd quite like to do something Lua-related this year
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20100318 20:38:14< Ivanovic> Corsix: cool
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20100318 20:45:01< Iskander> Hello all
20100318 20:45:50< Iskander> My name is Alex, i wanna to take a part of GSoC
20100318 20:46:07< Iskander> And i wanna developing Battle for wesnoth
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20100318 20:57:07< hitendra> hi...everyone
20100318 20:57:17< hitendra> i am hitendra from india
20100318 20:57:17< Iskander> hi
20100318 20:58:04< Iskander> nice to mite u
20100318 20:58:17< Iskander> My name is Alex
20100318 20:58:37< hitendra> so u are here for gsoc2010,right
20100318 20:58:47-!- vikaspec [~garg@59.164.15.85] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 20:58:47< Iskander> yap
20100318 20:58:51< Iskander> And u?
20100318 20:58:56< hitendra> gud..
20100318 20:59:03< hitendra> nice meeting u
20100318 21:00:28< Iskander> so u want become a party to GSoC too?
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20100318 21:02:23< hitendra> yaa
20100318 21:03:16< stikonas> can you please use "you" instead of u
20100318 21:03:21-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 21:03:31< mordante> servus
20100318 21:03:47< mordante> Ivanovic, I see we're in again :-) already applied as mentor
20100318 21:04:19< mordante> I don't have much time tonight, will read the logs later
20100318 21:04:57-!- gabm [~Gabriel@132.207.234.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100318 21:05:18< Soliton> AI0867: you will always be able to cause OOS with unsynchronized events that's not really new or different.
20100318 21:09:46< Crab_> Soliton: the question is, is it possible to hack something to make' [unstore_unit] advance=true' somewhat less buggy for 1.8 ?
20100318 21:09:55-!- gabm [~Gabriel@132.207.234.108] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100318 21:10:35< General_Fou_Fou> Hi, my name is Sarah.  One of the many gsoc-ers in this room
20100318 21:11:44< Aethaeryn> Is there some kind of GSOC meeting in this channel or did many GSOCers deside to spontaneously gather here?
20100318 21:12:02< gabm> Heh poor devs are flooded with gsoc students... I am one too
20100318 21:12:05< General_Fou_Fou> The mentor list just appeared on the GSOC website.
20100318 21:12:21< Aethaeryn> ah
20100318 21:12:23< mordante> Aethaeryn, we're in
20100318 21:12:29< Aethaeryn> good...
20100318 21:12:36< General_Fou_Fou> With the "suggestion" that you talk/lurk on the mentoring organization IRC channels 
20100318 21:12:54< Crab_> that's a good suggestion, actually :)
20100318 21:13:06< Aethaeryn> Glad to see there's a flood of interest.
20100318 21:14:07< mordante> indeed a good suggestion
20100318 21:14:58< Soliton> Crab_: short of making all events synchronized, no. there is nothing specific to [unstore_unit] about it afaict.
20100318 21:15:57< Ivanovic> since this is our main place of communication this is the only *real* suggestion
20100318 21:15:59< Ivanovic> ;)
20100318 21:16:21< CIA-53> mordante * r41635 /trunk/ (changelog src/replay.cpp): 
20100318 21:16:21< CIA-53> Fix logging replay crashes.
20100318 21:16:21< CIA-53> Fixes bug #15601, applies patch #1525.
20100318 21:16:28< mordante> lfernando, ^
20100318 21:16:50< Crab_> Soliton: what if we process advancement in '[unstore_unit] advance=true' out-of-turn if there's only one possible advancement route ? will it make things less OOSy ?
20100318 21:17:06< Ivanovic> mordante: please click on "accept" yourself again
20100318 21:17:18< Ivanovic> (you know, the good old "ping-pong" model at gsoc...)
20100318 21:17:42< mordante> will do in a sec
20100318 21:17:45< Iskander> Now i am working with the bug bug #15562, https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15562 i has the question, can u help me?
20100318 21:17:48< lfernando> ty mordante
20100318 21:18:07< Soliton> Crab_: yeah, that should work, i guess.
20100318 21:18:28< mordante> lfernando, thank you for spotting and fixing the problem 
20100318 21:18:30< Crab_> Soliton: as  {ADVANCE_UNIT ...} and {TRANSFORM_UNIT ...} use the [unstore_unit] advance=true , and in most cases, they specify the unit to advance to..
20100318 21:18:40< Crab_> ok, I'll try
20100318 21:18:42< Ivanovic> Iskander: please try to use "full words" and not too many short forms, we got many people in here that are not native speakers of english and their life is a little easier when they get to read complete words
20100318 21:18:44< Ivanovic> ;)
20100318 21:19:35< Iskander> I am not good english speaker too :-[
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20100318 21:20:05< Ivanovic> Iskander: that does not matter, we are able to understand you and if we are not, we will just ask ;)
20100318 21:20:12< Iskander> I'll try write more correctly...
20100318 21:20:15< Iskander> Ok
20100318 21:20:18< Ivanovic> thanks
20100318 21:20:31< Iskander> Return to the bug:
20100318 21:20:52< Ivanovic> in irc you should just ask your question and wait for an answer
20100318 21:21:23< Ivanovic> that is: if someone knows the answer, he or she will just reply, if the one is not around atm it might be read in the logs and can be answered later, too
20100318 21:22:05< Ivanovic> mordante: are context menus still old or already "new" gui?
20100318 21:22:23< Iskander> So content of bug is: When the user has a contextual menu open, s/he cannot create and jump to a new contextual menu while in one. 
20100318 21:22:54< Ivanovic> how i read the bug report is this: (an example)
20100318 21:23:00< mordante> Ivanovic, old
20100318 21:23:07< Ivanovic> you have two free hexes in your keep where you want to recruit
20100318 21:23:13< Ivanovic> you rightclick on the first
20100318 21:23:20< Ivanovic> this opens the context menu
20100318 21:23:31< mordante> IIRC sapient added that part
20100318 21:23:40< Ivanovic> then you decide that you prefer to recruit/recall/whatever on the other free hex
20100318 21:23:53< Ivanovic> you want to directly rightlick there to open the contect menu at this location
20100318 21:24:07< Ivanovic> this does not work, you first have to close the old contect menu before you can open a new one
20100318 21:24:21< Iskander> yes
20100318 21:24:57< Iskander> I think it be better if the context menu are open at once
20100318 21:25:13< Ivanovic> exactly
20100318 21:25:22< Ivanovic> that is what the user reporting the bug expected
20100318 21:26:07< Ivanovic> anyway, i am basically off now, a little ill and trying to get some extra sleep, maybe it will help my stomach to settle down...
20100318 21:26:22< Iskander> ok
20100318 21:26:40< Iskander> bye bye
20100318 21:26:42< gabm> hey, thanks on all your work on the release Ivanovic
20100318 21:27:06< Ivanovic> gabm: not done yet, so far 1.8 is not out yet
20100318 21:27:07< gabm> get well
20100318 21:27:15< gabm> well, almost ;)
20100318 21:27:20< Ivanovic> (and tomorrow i got to write the news that wesnoth is accepted in SoC2010)
20100318 21:28:14< Iskander> So maybe sombody else help me
20100318 21:29:59< Iskander> so question is: if i clicking, in the unit and after that, i decide don't move the unit i must right clicking in the free hex, and open context menu are unlogical
20100318 21:30:12< Iskander> what do you think abot it?
20100318 21:30:17< Iskander> *about
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20100318 21:40:37< mordante> Ivanovic, ponged
20100318 21:42:03< mordante> ilor, are you already working on bug 15562?
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20100318 21:42:26< ilor> mordante: not working on anything atm
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20100318 21:42:57< mordante> ilor, ok since Iskander wants to look into it
20100318 21:43:16< Iskander> Yes
20100318 21:43:20< mordante> Iskander, in general if a bug is assigned it's wise to ask whether that person is already working on it
20100318 21:43:30< ilor> mordante: yeah he asked me already ;)
20100318 21:43:44< mordante> ilor, ok missed that ;-)
20100318 21:43:52< ilor> (on priv) and I told him he'll have better luck here since 
20100318 21:44:15< ilor> *since I don't really remember much about this and might have been just shuffling code around
20100318 21:44:22< mordante> ah ok
20100318 21:44:23< ilor> blame probably points to me because of that
20100318 21:44:26< Iskander> I beggin fix it, and i dont now how be better
20100318 21:44:32< ilor> I'll go ahead and iunassign myself
20100318 21:45:03< mordante> Iskander, can you rephrase that?
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20100318 21:48:17< Iskander> If u click left mouse on a unit, and then right-clicking in the empty field u are just 'unclicking' the unit, and dont has any menu right?
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20100318 21:50:01< Iskander> So i ask, what better when it is like now, or when you are open context menu after right clicking?
20100318 21:50:24< Iskander> (i am sorry but my english not perfect...)
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20100318 21:58:00< mordante> Iskander, the "problem" is when you click right a context menu pops up, then with the next right click the menu disappears but doesn't show up at another place
20100318 21:58:31< mordante> Iskander, not 100% convinced it is a bug, iceweasel and xchat seem to behave in the same manner
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20100318 21:59:57< Iskander> mordante: I fixing problemm about you say
20100318 21:59:59< mpavel> hi everyone, I want to participate in GSoC this year (my first time) and blrcad recommended wesnoth
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20100318 22:01:56< mordante> hi mpavel 
20100318 22:02:00< zookeeper> Crab_, Soliton, it sounds good enough to me if unstore-advancing would always work if there's just one possible advancement.
20100318 22:02:33< mordante> mpavel, why did brlcad recommend us?
20100318 22:02:43< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, I hope that this will work and will be non-intrusive enough to to sneak it into 1.8 :)
20100318 22:03:20< AI_irchon> sounds like I need to read up on the logs
20100318 22:03:25< zookeeper> it's pretty intuitive (if you know the synchronization limitations) that multiple advancements won't work from unsynchronized events and/or when it's not the current player's unit, so that's not a problem
20100318 22:03:35< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, that'd be great
20100318 22:04:18 * zookeeper has been thinking of slipping in the AI controller to some campaign scenarios for 1.8 :x
20100318 22:04:45< zookeeper> the only thing i'm not fond of is the lack of a string to use in the objectives dialog to inform the player...maybe LoW has one, gotta check
20100318 22:04:51< Ivanovic> mordante: IIRC bzflag does not participate this year
20100318 22:04:53< mpavel> mordante: he said you guys are cool and that working with you will be nice
20100318 22:05:05< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, some scenarios would benefit from it. esp. those where the ai leader gets itself killed too soon by doing something stupid.
20100318 22:05:15< zookeeper> exactly
20100318 22:05:15< Ivanovic> and we are one of the other cool games around
20100318 22:05:16< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100318 22:05:33< mpavel> :)
20100318 22:05:38< zookeeper> fendrin, around?
20100318 22:05:40< mordante> Ivanovic, I know we're a cool game, but could have been for a special reason ;-)
20100318 22:05:45< Ivanovic> :)
20100318 22:06:00< mpavel> mordante: the only thing is that I'm not a gamer ...
20100318 22:07:01< mordante> mpavel, that leaves more time for coding ;-)
20100318 22:07:24< mpavel> also, by not playing the game yet I don't really know how things are, what's needed
20100318 22:07:39< mordante> I also spend more time coding as playing Wesnoth
20100318 22:07:45-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8 commits allowed till March, 24th, 12:00 GMT, afterwards "testfreeze" | string/feature freeze active! | 69 bugs, 255 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100318 22:07:57< mpavel> I'll look at the project ideas on the site and see
20100318 22:08:14< Ivanovic> mpavel: in general it is a good thing if "non gamers" become coders, too
20100318 22:08:31< Ivanovic> since when they have a look at the game it is easier for them to find stuff that is not intuitive
20100318 22:09:03< Iskander> mordante: I asking what are doing if unit are marking with left-click
20100318 22:09:27< mpavel> Ivanovic: that's true
20100318 22:09:44< mpavel> Ivanovic: and lately I've been reading and getting involved more into usability and interaction design
20100318 22:09:57< Ivanovic> :)
20100318 22:10:04< Ivanovic> perfect for some gui related work!
20100318 22:10:06< Ivanovic> ;)
20100318 22:10:22< mpavel> I'll install the game tonight then :D
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20100318 22:15:39< AI_irchon> soliton: if there are multiple advancements, can't we just do the same as with normal advancement:  draw a synchronized random number to choose?
20100318 22:16:43< Soliton> sure, everything can be synchronized..
20100318 22:16:54< CIA-53> ivanovic * r41636 /website/start/1.8/ (index.it.html index.sk.html po/it.po po/sk.po): updated Italian and Slovak announcement translations
20100318 22:17:00< Soliton> it just isn't atm.
20100318 22:17:38< AI_irchon> the severside rng sounds perfect for this
20100318 22:17:56< AI_irchon> I don't really see the problem
20100318 22:19:29< AI_irchon> the "only one choice" special case could fail in case of cascading advancements btw
20100318 22:23:11< Crab_> AI_irchon: but what if we want the human or ai to *pick* the choice ?
20100318 22:23:30< AI_irchon> then you have to do it on their turn
20100318 22:23:42< AI_irchon> I believe that was already the case
20100318 22:25:35< AI_irchon> I don't see how that's any worse than the current situation
20100318 22:25:39< Crab_> AI_irchon: it will be *their* turn for them, but *not own* turn for other sides
20100318 22:26:03< AI_irchon> ah
20100318 22:26:26< AI_irchon> so it lacks the synchronisation of the normal advancement?
20100318 22:26:51< Crab_> AI_irchon: yes, no sync. so, actually, the 'true' solution is known -it is to properly receive the option and choice from other side, then proceed further.
20100318 22:27:22< Crab_> and thanks for mentioning cascading advancements
20100318 22:27:54< AI_irchon> right. I thought the issue was when it was side 1's turn and side 2 has a unit with advance=yes unstored
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20100318 22:30:56< Soliton> the problem is to wait in the middle of the code somewhere for network data afair.
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20100318 22:32:24< Crab_> Soliton: there's existing code for such waits, at least some code that looks like 'sit on the replay, handling stuff,  until FOO arrives and is handled'
20100318 22:33:53< Soliton> yeah, that's not what i'd call in the middle of some code somewhere though.
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20100318 22:37:32< Gambit> unit.variables.whathaveyou is not viewable with :inspect?
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20100318 22:39:29< Gambit> ^^^nevermind
20100318 22:40:53< Crab_> Gambit: full unit configs should be viewable
20100318 22:47:48< Azalit> so I'm thinking about writing up a WML editor of some sort (to make life a little easier...or less redundant, perhaps) Is there anything of the kind already somewhere, and I've just missed it?
20100318 22:50:27< Soliton> there's an emacs wml mode that's not bad, i think.
20100318 22:50:32< boucman> depends what you mean by wml editor
20100318 22:50:59< Espreon> Yeah, if it were going to be Campgen II, then hwy bother?
20100318 22:51:30< Azalit> well, I'm not terribly solid on my design yet, but I was imagining a GUI
20100318 22:52:08< boucman> Azalit: it's a pretty hot subject at the moment, fendrin is probably the most able to discuss it at this point
20100318 22:52:24< Azalit> ah, good to know, thanks.
20100318 22:52:42< Azalit> I pondered it a while last year about this time too =P
20100318 22:52:54< fendrin> Azalit: What are your plans?
20100318 22:53:02< boucman> but the consensus seems to be that better graphical tools can be provided to help map makers, but that trying to completely mask the "text" aspect of WML is not feasible and bound to bring more problems than anything
20100318 22:53:51< Azalit> I was imagining a list of all the events in the file, for easier access and modification.
20100318 22:54:11< Azalit> um...a template design, of some sort, for standard events, such as speaking and whatnot
20100318 22:54:33< Azalit> and, of course, the ability for manual manipulation
20100318 22:54:44< mordante> I'm off night
20100318 22:54:46< Azalit> like I said, it's not solid at them moment, but I'm open for ideas
20100318 22:54:56-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100318 22:55:01< Iskander> byr bye all
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20100318 22:56:04< boucman> hmm, so it would be a sort of WML template library to easily build scenarios out of chunks of WML ?
20100318 22:56:22< Crab_> Azalit: have you read the wesnoth-dev mailing list ? there was a related discussion some time ago...
20100318 22:56:35< Azalit> ah, I have not, no. I'll take a look.
20100318 22:56:41< fendrin> Well, it was more like a flamewar.
20100318 22:57:13< zookeeper> a template-based editor thingy would be the only sane approach IMO, but the problem is that you'd have to basically integrate a good text editor too...
20100318 22:57:24< Azalit> Basically, I just thought creating the WML from scratch was kinda...laborious, so I wanted to make a quicker way.
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20100318 22:58:13< fendrin> Azalit: Why not a eclipse plugin for wml?
20100318 22:58:20< zookeeper> frankly i think that problem would be best solved by someone just creating simple campaign/era/whatever templates and putting them on the add-on server :p there's some of those already actually
20100318 22:59:01< Azalit> an eclipse plugin might be pretty decent, but I don't use it...
20100318 22:59:02< boucman> Azalit: yes, it was a bit of a flamewar, but it's quite instructive about the problematics of writing an editor, 
20100318 22:59:06< Azalit> I'll look into that, too
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20100318 23:00:18< Azalit> hunting down the mailing list now...
20100318 23:02:18< Crab_> Azalit:  https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-02/threads.html
20100318 23:03:28< zookeeper> just a random thought: maybe instead of an actual editor, you could have an "add-on authoring helper": a relatively simple GUI for organizing the files inside an add-on, with the actual .cfg files opening up externally in your own text editor. it'd be able to create a campaign/era/mpscenario template for you based on a few parameters, and maybe doing wmllint runs or other sanity checking for you.
20100318 23:03:35< boucman> fendrin: if you have some easy coding tasks in the editor now would be a good time to add them ;)
20100318 23:03:57< zookeeper> i don't know if there's anything to that idea, but i figured i'd throw it out there
20100318 23:04:03< Crab_> zookeeper: isn't it better to reuse an existing ide, like eclipse, for organizing stuff ?
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20100318 23:04:31< zookeeper> Crab_, can the target audience, which is newbies, use eclipse? :x
20100318 23:04:54< boucman> good point
20100318 23:04:55< Crab_> zookeeper: imo, yes. actually, it's pretty easy to use
20100318 23:05:25< zookeeper> well, ok, i wouldn't really know (i've briefly tried it something like >5 years ago)
20100318 23:05:38< Azalit> zookeeper: that was actually my first thought; maybe something tacked on to the map editor, but I don't know how  useful it'd be, truthfully.
20100318 23:06:24< fendrin> We could over a wesnoth eclipse version that starts in the right mood.
20100318 23:06:43< fendrin> It is common to tune eclipse for such purposes.
20100318 23:06:43< boucman> ok, night all,
20100318 23:06:55< fendrin> s/over/offer
20100318 23:07:11< Azalit> ah, that'd be cool.
20100318 23:07:19< Crab_> fendrin: 'the right mood' is a great phrase :)
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20100318 23:07:44< zookeeper> sounds like a good idea, if it can be tuned well enough
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20100318 23:08:35< fendrin> hi Sapient, do you like to comment the custom alignment mailing list thread?
20100318 23:09:30< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, it can. java work to create a plugin and to reconfigure eclipse is required
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20100318 23:11:19< zookeeper> anyway, i was mostly thinking of something which would have a really simple GUI would be able to tell the user if the files are in the right location, run wmllint and other sanity checking and maybe, if you wanted to get real fancy, display a graph of which .cfg file includes which .cfg file, or something :P
20100318 23:11:49< Crab_> zookeeper: IMO, it's better to code on top of a existing platform
20100318 23:11:56< Crab_> zookeeper: for example, you'd get svn integration for free.
20100318 23:12:08< zookeeper> yeah, sounds like that might be better
20100318 23:13:00< Crab_> zookeeper: should I post this to summer of code ideas page? e.g. 'Wesnoth UMC Designer plugin for eclipse' 
20100318 23:17:26< zookeeper> well i'm not an authority on the issue, but sure, sounds fine to me
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20100318 23:27:26 * Crab_ went to SummerOfCodeIdeas page
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20100318 23:32:35< Crab_> zookeeper: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Eclipse_Plugin
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20100318 23:53:03< Gambit> Sapient: [normal/sane] UMC creators will not design add-ons around features that don't exist.
20100318 23:53:25< Gambit> So in this case you won't know if there is a need until you add the feature.
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 19 00:00:03 2010