--- Log opened Sat Mar 27 00:00:39 2010
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20100327 00:46:01< Ivanovic> anyway, don't expect sane answers from me this evening, i am off to bed, n8
20100327 00:46:33 * shadowmaster throws a pillow at Ivanovic 
20100327 00:46:36< Ivanovic> yes, drinking zombies is exhaustive
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20100327 00:46:58< Espreon> Then stop drinking them...
20100327 00:47:49< shadowmaster> okay, crap, what now? can I make it easier on my poor laptop to build Wesnoth 1.8 somehow? :/
20100327 00:48:12< shadowmaster> I guess scons will want to recompile everything anyway
20100327 00:48:21< Espreon> Well, of course.
20100327 00:49:10< shadowmaster> oh, and I forgot to mention that the test suite doesn't compile with Boost 1.42... :/
20100327 00:52:08< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: bugs.wesnoth.org
20100327 00:52:11< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100327 00:52:37< Ivanovic> anyway, the movie evening i had with some friends and several cocktails was exhausting
20100327 00:52:45< Ivanovic> head ing off to bed now, n8
20100327 00:52:56< shadowmaster> :)
20100327 00:53:14< Ivanovic> damn it, the drinks i mixed *were* tasty...
20100327 00:53:16< fabi> Ivanovic has friends in real life. Scary ...
20100327 00:53:26< Ivanovic> no matter if it was a zombie or a planters punch...
20100327 00:53:31< shadowmaster> hm, kudos to Jetrel for fixing the campaign menu splash images mess
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20100327 01:17:09< shadowmaster> esr: around?
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20100327 01:27:47< Upthorn> hrm, I'm getting a number of "unresolved external symbol" linking errors in msvc9. I know that the function exists in the source and that the source was built
20100327 01:28:08< Upthorn> can anyone help me track down the inconsistencies between declaration and definition?
20100327 01:28:31< shadowmaster> I don't work with MSVC9, but what are the specific errors? (pastebin)
20100327 01:31:19< Upthorn> one moment while I trim out duplicates
20100327 01:33:06< Upthorn> http://asdfhgup.pastebin.com/8YzJXkJW
20100327 01:34:17< shadowmaster> ugh :P
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20100327 01:34:52< shadowmaster> is, for example, src/gui/widgets/listbox.cpp being built and linked?
20100327 01:35:01< loonycyborg> Probably you need to add missing sources to projectfile.
20100327 01:35:18< Upthorn> I already did that
20100327 01:35:38< shadowmaster> actually, with complaints about listbox.obj, which must exist... :/
20100327 01:35:38< Upthorn> re: loonycyborg, that is
20100327 01:35:52< Upthorn> I think there might be an issue of two source files having the same name
20100327 01:36:12< loonycyborg> There are such sources AFAIK.
20100327 01:36:14< Upthorn> e.g. src/gui/widgets/listbox.cpp and src/gui/auxiliary/widget_definitions/listbox.cpp
20100327 01:36:52< shadowmaster> I don't remember if MSVC++ can handle that case :/ what happens if you rename one of them are build?
20100327 01:36:55< shadowmaster> s/are/and/
20100327 01:38:06 * Upthorn tries renaming all the widget_definition ones *d.cpp
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20100327 01:39:45< Upthorn> yeah, as soon as it occured to me that the problem might be the same name, I started renaming them
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20100327 01:47:25< Upthorn> okay, that got rid of a couple, but there might be source files still missing from the project
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20100327 01:56:00< Upthorn> okay, so I had gui\auxiliary\window_builder\listbox.cpp and gui\auxiliary\widget_definition\listbox.cpp, but not gui\widget\listbox.cpp
20100327 01:56:23< ReverseSVNNoob> so you had a duplicate? :)
20100327 01:57:13< Upthorn> and I've resolved the duplication issue by having all the gui\auxiliary\widget_definition\*.cpp files output to gui\auxiliary\widget_definition\*.obj
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20100327 02:04:59< Upthorn> hooray, it built. Where do I submit the patch for the project files?
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20100327 02:06:59< shadowmaster> bugs.wesnoth.org . You may want to check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PatchSubmissionGuidelines too
20100327 02:07:09< loonycyborg> Upthorn: patches.wesnoth.org
20100327 02:07:27< shadowmaster> oops, I mean patches. indeed :P
20100327 02:07:32< Upthorn> thanks shadowmaster, loonybot
20100327 02:07:51< Upthorn> err, l<tab><tab><tab>, not l<tab><tab> my mistake.
20100327 02:10:08< Upthorn> hrm. does anyone know if tortoisesvn's diff output is the same as svn diff?
20100327 02:10:27< shadowmaster> it should be
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20100327 02:35:02< CIA-80> loonycyborg * r41783 /trunk/SConstruct: Do not build regression tests by default.
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20100327 02:46:51< CIA-80> loonycyborg * r41784 /branches/1.8/SConstruct: Do not build regression tests by default.
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20100327 03:20:46< CIA-80> ai0867 * r41785 /trunk/ (changelog src/game_events.cpp): Make [set_variable] random use rand code.
20100327 03:20:52< CIA-80> ai0867 * r41786 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Added 'side X turn refresh' and 'side X turn Y refresh' events
20100327 03:20:57< CIA-80> ai0867 * r41787 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/2_Tutorial.cfg: Simplify the tutorial a bit using the 'side X turn refresh' event
20100327 03:21:06< CIA-80> ai0867 * r41788 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Untested [unit][status]healable -> unhealable
20100327 03:21:11< CIA-80> ai0867 * r41789 /trunk/ (changelog src/game_events.cpp): Update changelog, change a deprecation message
20100327 03:21:19< AI0867> ugh, forgot to change that commit message
20100327 03:21:24< AI0867> it's no longer untested
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20100327 03:45:42< Upthorn> okay, now that I've got the changes applied to all three build configs, I have a question
20100327 03:46:33< Upthorn> do I need to add a line in the changelog for "fixed vc9 project files" to be in compliance with PatchSubmissionGuidelines?
20100327 03:52:32< shadowmaster> Upthorn: nah
20100327 03:53:06< shadowmaster> it such a small patch that even the credits entry is skippable (omittable? omissible?)
20100327 03:53:12< shadowmaster> *it would be
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20100327 04:06:13< esr> shadowmaster: You rang?
20100327 04:06:59< shadowmaster> yes, why did you assign #15698 to me?
20100327 04:07:30< Upthorn> oh dear
20100327 04:07:41< Upthorn> I just noticed that this patch is a duplicate of one assigned to crab
20100327 04:07:50< shadowmaster> Upthorn: ouch
20100327 04:07:52< Upthorn> ... after submitting :(
20100327 04:08:15< shadowmaster> Upthorn: okay, no problem, I'll just mark yours as such and close it ;)
20100327 04:08:17< esr> shadowmaster: Because I thought you actually did shadows.  But I gather from IRC that I was wrong.
20100327 04:08:23< Upthorn> ... and gna didn't save my login from when I signed up earlier
20100327 04:08:43< Upthorn> https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1564 << my duplicate patch
20100327 04:08:44< shadowmaster> esr: yeah D:
20100327 04:09:22< Upthorn> well
20100327 04:09:23< Upthorn> hang on
20100327 04:09:30< shadowmaster> Upthorn: I already closed it
20100327 04:09:50< Upthorn> okay yeah his does all the same work as mine
20100327 04:10:05< shadowmaster> esr: I'll mark it as Invalid and submit a proper response anyway
20100327 04:10:18< esr> OK.
20100327 04:11:40< Upthorn> ... oh wait, his only applies to the "debug" configuration, mine applied to "release" and "debug (fast)" as well
20100327 04:11:47< Upthorn> blargh.
20100327 04:16:33< Upthorn> I imagine it would be a horrendous faux pas if I, as a non-member, were to comment on someone and provide an update to else's patch...?
20100327 04:16:48< shadowmaster> r/37
20100327 04:16:50< shadowmaster> oops.
20100327 04:17:28< shadowmaster> I guess ilor will eventually notice the lack of fixes for non-debug configurations though
20100327 04:19:50< Upthorn> it's a shame that protocol prevents me from handing my patch directly to someone with commit access, who would be able to integrate it into the trunk in seconds of work
20100327 04:20:22< shadowmaster> well, I could actually do that but then I'd be stepping on someone else's toes
20100327 04:22:44< shadowmaster> yays, BOM :(
20100327 04:23:43< shadowmaster> ...
20100327 04:23:51< shadowmaster> whenever I said ilor, I meant Crab_
20100327 04:24:18< shadowmaster> multiple consecutive days with little sleep do this for me :/
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20100327 04:24:54< shadowmaster> Crab_: so, you may want to read this conversation now :p
20100327 04:25:05< shadowmaster> (or when you get to check the logs, that is)
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20100327 04:29:41< Dawn> so i was looking over some ai forums, anyone here i can bounce some ideas around with?
20100327 04:32:11< shadowmaster> Upthorn: so yeah, sorry for not checking the tracker first:(
20100327 04:33:06< Upthorn> I don't actually see crab around at the moment
20100327 04:33:44< Upthorn> and I suspect that the logs probably won't highlight his name for him
20100327 04:34:12< shadowmaster> Upthorn: he does check the logs
20100327 04:35:05< Upthorn> I suppose he could routinely grep for instances of Crab_
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20100327 04:36:51< shadowmaster> yeah, so do a few other devs including me ..
20100327 04:37:26< Upthorn> routinely grep for instances of "Crab_"? :P
20100327 04:38:24< shadowmaster> replace that with our particular nicknames and variations thereof
20100327 04:39:16< Upthorn> I understood, but I particularly enjoy playing for humor off of literal interpretations of syntax.
20100327 04:39:28< ancestral> Dawn: I can't speak for the devs since I'm not one, but generally, feel free to voice your opinion and people will read it and respond :)
20100327 04:40:02< shadowmaster> Dawn: and note that this is not the est time of the day for getting in touch with most devs
20100327 04:40:41< shadowmaster> if you are a user and have an idea, use the Ideas forum. If you are a coder and have an idea, you might want to submit a patch if it's really tiny, or discuss it in the mailing list if it's some groundbreaking change
20100327 04:41:24< Upthorn> Dawn: and if you're a summer of code student, it seems like Crab_ is probably the particular person you will want to get in contact with.
20100327 04:41:52< Upthorn> err, prospective summer of code student, following up on the AI idea proposals
20100327 04:43:10< Dawn> thanks for the tips. Some of the forum threads on ai are a little dated,where do i find about current state of things? just ask Crab_?
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20100327 04:49:58< Dawn> Upthorn: I'm a little confused on the SoC, how does the process work?
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20100327 05:01:10< Upthorn> Have you already read the gsoc faqs? There is a #gsoc channel for questions about the google end of things, but each organization may have its own preferred process.
20100327 05:01:37< Upthorn> This is important, because the organization staff are the ones that ultimately make the decisions about which students to take or not
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20100327 05:02:09< Upthorn> Wesnoth has some info up on its wiki about its own preferred process: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#I_want_to_be_one_of_your_Google_Summer_of_Code_students.2C_what_should_I_do... 
20100327 05:05:01< Upthorn> Incidentally, I'm not part of the wesnoth dev team, but I was a GSoC student last year, and am looking to apply to wesnoth this year. (For the world persistence data project).
20100327 05:06:07< Upthorn> though I'm discouraged by the fact that, now that I've managed to get the code to compile on MSVC, it crashes immediately with memory access violations
20100327 05:07:34< Dawn> Out of curiosity, of was being a GSoC last year?
20100327 05:08:11< Dawn> miss type. my bad. how was being a GSoC last year.
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20100327 05:09:20< Upthorn> At first it was really fun, but then it was really stressful -- I had chosen a project that was much easier than I expected and I finished it halfway into the SoC period
20100327 05:10:10< Upthorn> but after that it was very stressful because there was a month and a half where I was still supposed to be working, and I had a great deal of difficulty accomplishing anything during this time
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20100327 05:12:46< veaviticus_> I'm not sure if anyone can help on this, but I just pulled down the source from the svn. I'm trying to get it to compile in Code::Blocks on Ubuntu, but almost all of the #includes fail out. Has anyone else had this problem?
20100327 05:13:05< Dawn> Aiming for a bigger project this time i assume. You wouldn't happen to know how many people wesnoth will pick for SoC? rough number
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20100327 05:14:27< Upthorn> They don't get to decide, google will determine how many students each organization is allowed to take on, after all the student applications are in
20100327 05:19:06-!- Bihari [~biharilal@218.248.80.61] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 05:20:41< Bihari> hi...
20100327 05:21:02< Bihari> I am BIhari Lal Gupta from Berhampur,Orissa,India
20100327 05:21:08< Dawn> hi bihari
20100327 05:21:24< Bihari> GoodMorning dear..
20100327 05:23:10< Bihari> Eclipse is really  a good plateform to develop applications
20100327 05:23:54< Bihari> So it is a brilliant idea to develop a plugin for UMC for eclipse
20100327 05:30:39< Bihari> In project statement there is mentioned "existing solutions".What does that mean?
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20100327 06:56:26< shadowmaster> hm
20100327 06:58:44< Upthorn> why does recompilation take so long?
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20100327 06:59:00< Upthorn> I mean, I know why, but it still seems unreasonable
20100327 06:59:40< shadowmaster> too many template classes
20100327 07:00:06< shadowmaster> I advice to get coffee and something to read if you are going to compile trunk from scratch ;)
20100327 07:00:40< shadowmaster> I also advice myself to get some sleep. It's 3:00 am here and I only came back to comment on the spritesheets idea
20100327 07:02:07< shadowmaster> s(advice)(advise)
20100327 07:02:20< shadowmaster> g;
20100327 07:06:14< Upthorn> I'm trying to work out the cause of the immediate crash on start after compiling in MSVC9
20100327 07:07:25< Upthorn> I know that it is invalid memory access at pointer 0xba11f00d (which I think is the ++ of a pointer that was previously 0xbaadf00d)
20100327 07:08:28< Upthorn> the debugger acts like there is no code available at the crash spot (I tell it to step in and it runs until it crashes), but when it crashes it brings open a specific line of xtree
20100327 07:08:53< Upthorn> which is in a "#if _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING" block
20100327 07:09:48< Upthorn> so I am compiling _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING set to 1 and seeing if that will let me get more specific info from the debugger.
20100327 07:12:14< Upthorn> incidentally the pointer I saw with a value of 0xbaadf00d was _Myhead in std::xtree::insert called from line 62 of log.cpp: domain_ = &*domains->insert(logd(name, 1)).first;
20100327 07:13:47< Upthorn> but I can't tell if the crash happening in the assignment or what
20100327 07:15:03< Upthorn> nor can I tell where the hell domans->_Myhead is being set to 0xbaadf00d
20100327 07:22:25< Upthorn> ... oh
20100327 07:22:25< Upthorn> #
20100327 07:22:25< Upthorn> # 0xBAADF00D ("bad food") is used by Microsoft's LocalAlloc(LMEM_FIXED) to indicate uninitialised allocated heap memory when the debug heap is used.
20100327 07:22:42< Upthorn> ... that was only supposed to be a one-line paste.
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20100327 07:52:05< Upthorn> so, that error goes away when I set iterator debugging to 1, oddly enough, but I get a new immediate crash on startup in its place. Apparently a logger activates while its name is a null pointer.
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20100327 07:53:48< Acabol> hello
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20100327 08:18:14< Upthorn> ... so apparently this logger is somehow being used without its constructor being called. Which is really weird.
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20100327 08:31:21 * Upthorn tries changing the order of includes in game.cpp to see if that modifies the order in which objects are initialized
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20100327 08:47:10< timotei21> morning
20100327 08:54:00< boucman> morning
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20100327 09:02:09< Upthorn> well, I found reference to the problem, apparently it is called the "static initialization order fiasco"
20100327 09:03:08< Soliton> i thought we dealt with that already.
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20100327 09:13:28< Upthorn> it has to do with a global logger being used in register_window, which is called from a #defined macro that is used in a global context in a different file.
20100327 09:13:57< Upth> specifically, it seems to be REGISTER_WINDOW(addon_connect) in line 44 of src
20100327 09:14:15< Upth> \gui\dialogs\addon_connect.cpp
20100327 09:15:46< Soliton> wesbot: log 29737
20100327 09:15:47< wesbot> mordante * r29737 : Don't let the config_cache singleton use a static member.The static member is now a static variable in the instance function.This avoids the static initialization fiasco with the logger in theclear_defines() function. The problem was discovered by Pietro_S.
20100327 09:15:50< Upth> ends up using the logger debug before it is inited. Theoretically it could also use info, but only in the else after an if-conditional which will never return false before debug is inited
20100327 09:15:52< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=29737
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20100327 09:16:02< silene> hi
20100327 09:16:27< timotei21> hello
20100327 09:16:38< Upth> Ah.
20100327 09:17:02< Upth> this is essentially the same situation, only it is being triggered from outside of a class context
20100327 09:18:38< Soliton> same solution probably to make a function return the static variable instead.
20100327 09:20:23< Upth> yeah, that sounds like the final solution
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20100327 09:29:53< Upth> so, while, on the whole, wrestling with this problem has been a negative experience, it has definitely provided me with a positive perception of my debugging abilities
20100327 09:30:23< Upth> since it took me only a few hours to track down an initialization order fiasco
20100327 09:32:03 * Upth incidentally is Upthorn's desktop, which has a slightly faster processor and is therefore slightly preferred when a tremendous number of back-to-back complete recompilations is required.
20100327 09:39:04< Upthorn> which are of course required for any modification to log.hpp
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20100327 09:42:44< Upthorn> judging by crab's earlier pastebin, though, I've got at least one more msvc9 instant crash to correct before I can test anything out.
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20100327 10:07:45-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | branches/1.8 created, trunk open for 1.9.x commits | 70 bugs, 256 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100327 10:15:26< Ivanovic> moin
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20100327 10:33:11< CIA-80> silene * r41790 /trunk/ (16 files in 3 dirs): 
20100327 10:33:11< CIA-80> Prevented t_string non-const references from being returned by functions. (Original patch #1139 by Frank Richter.)
20100327 10:33:11< CIA-80> This avoids leaking an implementation detail from the config class and opens the door to a considerable reduction of the memory footprint of lexical data.
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20100327 10:43:22< mordante> servus
20100327 10:43:28< Upthorn> Aha! looks like it was just the initialization order fiasco
20100327 10:44:01< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20100327 10:44:09< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20100327 10:57:18< mordante> Upthorn, regarding the static initialization fiasco was it really my commit?
20100327 10:58:07< Upthorn> I haven't checked the diff on your commit, but based on the log message I don't think yours caused it
20100327 10:58:23< mordante> you can test it simple 1 sec
20100327 10:59:15< Upthorn> it has to do with register_window(const std::string& id) in settings.cpp being called from global context, and making use of lg::debug
20100327 10:59:21< Soliton> your commit has not much to do with that except that i shows how to fix the problem.
20100327 10:59:38< Soliton> s/i/it/
20100327 11:00:15< mordante> Upthorn, if you disable the 3 lines with "log" in them and it works my commit still is the blame
20100327 11:00:36< mordante> Soliton, ok you know the real cause?
20100327 11:00:48< Upthorn> mordante: the 3 lines with "log" in them where?
20100327 11:01:22< mordante> register_window
20100327 11:01:25< Soliton> mordante: Upthorn does i thought. i haven't looked closer.
20100327 11:01:39< mordante> ok
20100327 11:02:11< Upthorn> oh, it is those lines
20100327 11:02:26< Upthorn> specifically 
20100327 11:02:31< silene> i didn't quite follow, but if you are talking about logging issues, it's both an initialization order issue (my fault somehow) and a compiler issue (wtf isn't the object statically created at compile-time?!)
20100327 11:02:39< Upthorn> LOG_STREAM_INDENT(debug, log) and possibly LOG_STREAM_INDENT(info), log)
20100327 11:03:21< Upthorn> err, ignore the ) before the , in the second one. that's from how I solved it
20100327 11:03:57< Upthorn> which was by makng functions _debug() and _info() that return static loggers
20100327 11:04:12< mordante> silene, I execute code before main calling the logging, thought creating my own logging object would resolve the static initialization problem
20100327 11:04:35< mordante> which on my system did the trick, apparently by luck
20100327 11:04:59< Upthorn> I would prefer to avoid that solution if possible, because it might leak memory
20100327 11:05:12< silene> mordante: no, the issue is not with the logging objects; it's with the warning level names; for a reason i ignore, msvc didn't statically initalize the strings (which are plain char*)
20100327 11:05:25< mordante> the function in question is register_window() in gui/widgets/settings.cpp
20100327 11:05:43< mordante> Upthorn, where does it leak memory?
20100327 11:05:49< Upthorn> mordante: it is because the loggers are not yet initialized at the time that register_window() is called
20100327 11:06:02< silene> mordante: from a standard point of view, they are doing fine, but it's a poor implementation, that's why we never saw it elsewhere
20100327 11:06:32< Upthorn> mordante: if I make a function that constructs and returns a static object, that object will never be deconstructed, will it?
20100327 11:06:44< Upthorn> err, returns a reference to a static object
20100327 11:07:19< mordante> silene, is it easy to fix or is it easier to a remove the logging (I don't care too much about the logging there, would be nice but not required)
20100327 11:08:52< silene> mordante: the easiest way is just to change the .o order to make sure log.o is the first one (or the last one, depending on the linker)
20100327 11:08:53< mordante> Upthorn, static objects are destroyed at some point after main() has finished
20100327 11:09:02< Upthorn> ok.
20100327 11:10:07< silene> mordante: by the way, using logging before main() is useless, since the warning levels from command line have not been set yet
20100327 11:11:07< mordante> silene, ok in that case I simply remove them, besides fiddling with the order of the .o files sounds tricky 
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20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> mordante * r41791 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/settings.cpp: 
20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> Remove logging in register_window.
20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> Upthorn noticed that the static initialization problem wasn't solved by
20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> this work-around. Silene mentioned that the logging before main doesn't
20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> use the log-level specified on the command line. So removing the logging
20100327 11:16:28< CIA-80> seems the easiest fix.
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20100327 11:37:20< ilor> hm, If I wanted to do a HTTP request from within wesnoth, would anyone have suggestions on what should be added?
20100327 11:38:47< mordante> ilor, don't already do HTTP requests in upload.cpp
20100327 11:40:55< ilor> mordante: ugh, looks like it's manually gluing together a request header there. yuck.
20100327 11:42:51< ilor> it's not even doing it portably, that \n will be a lone LF on *nix which is not what http wants
20100327 11:43:39< mordante> I hope who did it uses a binary stream and not a text stream ;-)
20100327 11:44:12< mordante> and yes it does it manually, not sure what you want to use it for
20100327 11:45:43< ilor> mordante: it's related to the "new addon server" project I'm doing in my uni as part of a course
20100327 11:46:31< ilor> one of the design decisions was to switch to plain http requests
20100327 11:47:03< ilor> so the server can be just a http server and not a custom c++ daemon
20100327 11:47:58< ilor> so I'm guessing I'm off to look for a simple http request abstraction layer for c++ ;)
20100327 11:48:41< mordante> Ok already expect that a bit and AFAIK the uploader is the only part using http
20100327 11:49:22< ilor> in general this course is proving to be still more about documentation, diagrams and more documentation than about actual working software
20100327 11:49:26< ilor> which is annoying
20100327 11:50:11< ilor> but we've forked 1.8.0 for now and should have something to show in several weeks
20100327 11:51:25< mordante> well then we at least have one proper documented part in the code ;-)
20100327 11:51:36< ilor> the server bit is partially done but it's mostly useless without game/script support, and looks a lot like the current web ui so nothing to brag about there
20100327 11:52:03< ilor> django is proving to be very nice, lots of stuff is taken care of by the framework
20100327 11:52:22< ilor> mordante: sadly, it's mostly the *process* docs, not *code* docs
20100327 11:53:43< mordante> well that can also be interesting to add
20100327 11:54:54< ilor> mordante: too bad most of it ended up being in Polish ;)
20100327 11:56:03< ilor> also it's really not very interesting. the method calls for a "business" look at things, and IMO far too many layers of indirection between code and initial design
20100327 11:56:30< ilor> (the code, docs in code and stuff will be in English, fear not)
20100327 11:57:30< mordante> hmmm having it in Polish could be "interesting", but rather in English
20100327 11:59:41< CIA-80> silene * r41792 /trunk/src/ (35 files in 6 dirs): Removed hardcoding of boolean names when storing values into config object.
20100327 12:00:14< ilor> btw regarding this static initalization issue discussed here recently.... I got bitten by something related recently
20100327 12:00:48< ilor> I found out the hard way that dyamic initialization of static variables is not, in fact, guaranteed to happen before main()
20100327 12:01:39< Upth> I've always been taught to keep global variables to a minimum, but I never really understood why until today.
20100327 12:01:57< ilor> turns out that when static linking to a library is involved, a static foo = func(); in that lib might not be called *at all*
20100327 12:02:22< ilor> i fnothing from that file is explicitly used
20100327 12:03:21< silene> ilor: yes, that's the issue with dynamic linking: it's dynamic; in other words, if you don't use things from a given file, it may not be linked in
20100327 12:03:51< mordante> Upth, this isn't the only reason for discouraging it ;-)
20100327 12:04:11< Upth> well, it is enough.
20100327 12:04:57< ilor> silene: I was highly baffled when code stopped working after I changed it from a large project to  a library + a small project with main() linkig that lib ;)
20100327 12:05:41< silene> ilor: not that linkers usually allow you to forcefully merge the files; among other things, it makes it possible to avoid this issue
20100327 12:05:45< silene> note*
20100327 12:05:58< ilor> then I found out it's even spelled out in the standard that such behavior is possible
20100327 12:06:24< ilor> silene: yeah, but I figured it's better to rearrange code slightly and avoid the issue altogether
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20100327 12:07:16< ilor> because then you inevitably have to deal with issues with other compilers and all. 
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20100327 12:23:40< mordante> thanks for r41785 AI0867, will drop it from my list
20100327 12:25:09< Ivanovic> ilor: good to see you aruond
20100327 12:25:26< Ivanovic> ilor: what about adding mouse over info to the icons in the game list that don't have those yet?
20100327 12:25:46< Ivanovic> eg the "observers allowed" and "no observers allowed" icons don't have a mouse over
20100327 12:28:20< ilor> Ivanovic: will have a look later today, need to leave now for a bit
20100327 12:28:27< Ivanovic> ilor: sure
20100327 12:28:48< ilor> Ivanovic: is there a gna bug for that?
20100327 12:28:55< Ivanovic> ilor: i don't think so
20100327 12:29:25< ilor> I'm off, be back in the evening
20100327 12:32:50< Ivanovic> ilor: just a second
20100327 12:33:05< Ivanovic> have a look at the patch to rework the upload code to using boost::asio
20100327 12:33:16< Ivanovic> might be a thing for you to use for the addon server stuff, too
20100327 12:33:28< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/patch/?1548
20100327 12:34:13< Ivanovic> and yes, i prefer *not* adding this additional dependency in the stable series
20100327 12:34:38< Ivanovic> (since a new component of boost is required for this, but for trunk this is IMO fine)
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20100327 12:45:28< Ivanovic> okay, sent a mail to the dev ml regarding version bumps and addition of dependencies
20100327 12:46:45 * mordante looks in an empty mailbox...
20100327 12:47:36 * mordante discovers gna is not only slow with commit notifications
20100327 12:49:53< CIA-80> mordante * r41793 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/editor_generate_map.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
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20100327 12:49:59< CIA-80> mordante * r41794 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/editor_settings.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:02< CIA-80> mordante * r41795 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:05< CIA-80> mordante * r41796 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/formula_debugger.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:11< CIA-80> mordante * r41797 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:12< CIA-80> mordante * r41798 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/game_load.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:16< CIA-80> mordante * r41799 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:18< CIA-80> mordante * r41800 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_player_info.cpp: Use the button signal handler instead of old one.
20100327 12:50:24< CIA-80> mordante * r41801 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/helper.hpp: Remove an ugly unused macro.
20100327 12:50:25< CIA-80> mordante * r41802 /trunk/src/gui/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20100327 12:50:25< CIA-80> Remove set_callback_mouse_left_click.
20100327 12:50:25< CIA-80> Remove the now unused callback method and some references to it.
20100327 12:50:33< Ivanovic> mordante: you know, i just sent the mail when i wrote this line in irc
20100327 12:50:40< Ivanovic> and your commits might have been blocking gna
20100327 12:50:42< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100327 12:51:19< mordante> Ivanovic, no the commits were send later ;-)
20100327 12:51:39< Ivanovic> but i got the -dev mail in my inbox now
20100327 12:52:45< CIA-80> ivanovic * r41803 /website/start/1.8/ (index.pl.html po/pl.po): updated Polish announcement translation
20100327 12:54:19< mordante> me too, I wrote that one minute after the complain ;-)
20100327 12:55:10< Rhonda> Great. wesnoth 1.8 out, package ready - and ftp-master of Debian down so the upload hangs in limbo.
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20100327 12:57:34< CIA-80> ivanovic * r41804 /website/start/1.8/ (Makefile index.en.html po/en.po): have the english (US) version as po file, too (this makes sure that it is always updated correctly)
20100327 12:58:08< Ivanovic> mordante: i think you mentioned some typo in the announcement
20100327 12:58:17< Ivanovic> mordante: now it can be easily fixed
20100327 12:58:18< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 12:58:37< Ivanovic> poor Rhonda...
20100327 12:59:03-!- Mythological [~mythologi@77.28.125.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100327 13:06:14< CIA-80> mordante * r41805 /website/start/1.8/po/en.po: Fix capitalization in the announcement.
20100327 13:06:21< mordante> thanks Ivanovic, commit is there^
20100327 13:06:44< Ivanovic> you should directly have run "make all" to update the website...
20100327 13:08:21< mordante> didn't know that, running it now
20100327 13:10:31< mordante> Ivanovic, I also get several blobs like http://paste.debian.net/66118/ in en and other unrelated files is that a problem?
20100327 13:10:57< Ivanovic> huh?
20100327 13:11:47< Ivanovic> those are commented out anyway, so it makes no difference...
20100327 13:11:53< mordante> yeah I thought the same, but I get change unrelated to my changes
20100327 13:11:54 * loonycyborg replies to Ivanovic's dependency/boost post.
20100327 13:12:07 * mordante already dud
20100327 13:12:09< mordante> did*
20100327 13:13:18< CIA-80> mordante * r41806 /website/start/1.8/index.en.html: Update the html page after the last po update.
20100327 13:13:24< mordante> Ivanovic, ^
20100327 13:18:21< mordante> nice loonycyborg 
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20100327 14:12:42< ilor> Ivanovic: re http in wesnoth, I found http://cpp-netlib.github.com/html/index.html which looks interesting
20100327 14:13:43< ilor> it's a header only lib depending on boost asio
20100327 14:15:13< mordante> looks interesting, especially the logo in the documentation
20100327 14:15:44< ilor> btw Ivanovic lucid seems to ship boost 1.41, at least the beta does
20100327 14:17:16< mordante> silene, r41790 broke a unit test
20100327 14:19:01< silene> mordante: i know, but i'm not sure why, since according to the output the result is correct
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20100327 14:57:32-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20100327 15:02:13< fendrin> Ivanovic: Do you already have a release plan for version 1.9?
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20100327 15:15:34< Ivanovic> fendrin: yes, my perfectly detailed plans are listed in the mail i sent some hours ago
20100327 15:19:32< fendrin> Ivanovic: That is long.
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20100327 15:49:04-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 15:49:19< fendrin> hi Espreon
20100327 15:50:16< Espreon> Hello fendrin.
20100327 15:52:42-!- theodore [~theodore@2a01:e35:2e93:acb0:223:6cff:fe89:6500] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100327 16:26:25< CIA-80> silene * r41807 /trunk/src/unit.hpp: Fixed unit description being prematurely translated.
20100327 16:26:37< CIA-80> silene * r41808 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed shared config objects.
20100327 16:26:43< CIA-80> silene * r41809 /trunk/src/config.hpp: Added missing overload.
20100327 16:26:46< CIA-80> silene * r41810 /trunk/src/serialization/parser.cpp: Sped up parser by accessing config objects only once per variable and not creating temporary shared strings.
20100327 16:26:52< timotei21> webot: seen Crab_
20100327 16:26:56< timotei21> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100327 16:26:56< wesbot> timotei21: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 16h 56m ago.  15h 52m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100327 16:27:44< fendrin> hi timotei21
20100327 16:27:53< fendrin> timotei21: Can I help you?
20100327 16:28:27< timotei21> hey fendrin
20100327 16:28:50< timotei21> I just wanted to see if Crab_ is online, he told me he was working on a cmake version for windows
20100327 16:29:04< timotei21> for building wesnoth
20100327 16:29:31< fendrin> Ah yes. That is something I can't be of help.
20100327 16:29:38< timotei21> btw, if we started the conversation... what's the simplest WML program?
20100327 16:29:42< timotei21> [scenario][/scenario]
20100327 16:29:56< timotei21> that should compile without ANY outside files
20100327 16:30:00< Gambit> [multiplayer][/multiplayer] would be the simplest way to get started.
20100327 16:30:02< timotei21> or referenecs?
20100327 16:30:17< Gambit> Since [scenario] IIRC would need a campaign to be in.
20100327 16:30:32< timotei21> oh
20100327 16:30:35< Gambit> Multiplyer would just be right in the map list (assuming you have it in the right directory)
20100327 16:30:37< fendrin> Gambit is right, it's easier to get a multiplayer scenario working.
20100327 16:30:43< timotei21> ok
20100327 16:30:54< timotei21> and if I want to use basic macros, I still have to include them right?
20100327 16:30:59< timotei21> {data/core/macros/}
20100327 16:31:01< Gambit> No.
20100327 16:31:05< Gambit> Those are auto included.
20100327 16:31:24< Gambit> data/core is available everywhere.
20100327 16:31:32< timotei21> ok
20100327 16:33:01< Johannes13> is the ai still written in python?
20100327 16:33:07< Gambit> No.
20100327 16:35:22< Espreon> Johannes13: The AI system/most of the AIs were never written in Python. AIs just could be written in Python. Nowadays, one can write an AI in WML, FAI, and Lua (and even use all three in a single AI).
20100327 16:36:52< Johannes13> ok.
20100327 16:38:55< Johannes13> Not "the game is written in c++, the ai in python, the scenarios in wml/lua" :P
20100327 16:41:52< Gambit> I read something about python AI having some sort of security issue but I can't find it now.
20100327 16:43:35< Espreon> Gambit: You could probably find it by digging through the bug tracker.
20100327 16:48:07< Gambit> Bug #13048
20100327 16:48:22< fendrin> Johannes13: The support for python ai was dropped completely.
20100327 16:48:27< timotei21> wesbot: bug #13048
20100327 16:48:28< wesbot> Bug #13048  Assigned to: None  Status: Fixed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100327 16:48:28< wesbot> Summary: Hole in Python AI sandbox permits arbitrary code execution
20100327 16:48:28< wesbot> Original submission: In Python, if module A imports module B and module B impo
20100327 16:48:31< wesbot> rts module C, A can access C by referencing it as 'B.C'.This permits Wesnoth
20100327 16:48:34< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?13048
20100327 16:48:38< Ivanovic> and even before there was not much about python for ais anyway
20100327 16:48:48< Ivanovic> there were some samples showing that it is possible, but that's it
20100327 16:49:08< Ivanovic> those two ais were not used for any campaigns and just selectable in multiplayer
20100327 16:49:33< Ivanovic> more of a case of "uhm, yeah, it is possible..."
20100327 16:51:07-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 16:56:57< Ivanovic> boucman: IIRC you once mentioned that you considered looking at the mem improvements the iphone port has
20100327 16:57:03< Ivanovic> now is probably the best idea to do so
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20100327 17:12:41-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | 70 bugs, 256 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100327 17:12:57< Ivanovic> okay, some more topic cleanup
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20100327 17:16:37< theodore> Hello
20100327 17:22:08< theodore> I am quite interested on the following summer of code project : rewrite wesnoth network stack using boost::asio, and I would like to know what should i do to join it?
20100327 17:46:53-!- Rajdeep [~ca034d0b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ynrcyogzrsvgbqco] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 17:49:17< zookeeper> silene, fendrin, anyone else doing lua: if there's a WML tag that ought to be implemented in lua, then that'd be a [modify_unit]. then the MODIFY_UNIT macro could be changed to use that, since it's terribly verbose atm. just a thought.
20100327 17:50:21< fendrin> zookeeper: Did you meant it's *not* terribly verbose?
20100327 17:51:03< zookeeper> fendrin, no, i meant it is terribly verbose
20100327 17:51:08< fendrin> I may have wrong idea about the term "verbose"
20100327 17:51:27< zookeeper> i just meant that it expands to a lot of WML
20100327 17:51:58< fendrin> Okay, I first thought that you wanted to have it doing more output in case of an error.
20100327 17:52:00< zookeeper> which makes it somewhat unpleasant for doing a lot of small modifications to units with
20100327 17:52:45< zookeeper> i'd imagine you could make the tag work like this: [modify_unit] [filter][/filter] unitkey=value anotherunitkey=anothervalue ... [/modify_unit]
20100327 17:53:12< zookeeper> so you could do [modify_unit] [filter] id=Konrad [/filter] moves=0 [/modify_unit] to set konrad's moves to 0
20100327 17:53:37< zookeeper> (and of course it'd apply the modification to all units matching the filter)
20100327 17:55:58< zookeeper> anyways, going afk... ->
20100327 17:57:14< fendrin> zookeeper: Yes, I like the proposed syntax.
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20100327 18:05:33< mordante> theodore, you read our generic GSoC page?
20100327 18:06:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 18:07:09< theodore> mordante : yes and I am following it 
20100327 18:07:22-!- Rajdeep [~ca034d0b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ynrcyogzrsvgbqco] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100327 18:07:59< mordante> good are you familiar with boost::asio?
20100327 18:08:00< theodore> right now i am writing my wiki page 
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20100327 18:08:19< theodore> yes I already worked in a 3d  game engine 
20100327 18:08:29< theodore> i implement the network system with some friends
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20100327 18:08:41< theodore> it was done in boost:asia
20100327 18:09:03< mordante> a known game or something private?
20100327 18:09:30< mordante> silene, the unit tests work again
20100327 18:09:36< theodore> something private for the moment but we have a private wiki and we will soon open an public account
20100327 18:09:54< silene> mordante: i know, what do you think my commits were for? ;-)
20100327 18:10:37< mordante> silene, I know otherwise I wouldn't have tested ;-) just wanted to confirm it fixes it for me as well
20100327 18:12:53< mordante> theodore, ok nice regarding your question, you should discuss the idea with some possible mentors and start to work on some patches
20100327 18:13:06< mordante> you can also discuss after you wrote your initial wiki page
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20100327 18:14:07< theodore> mordante, thank you
20100327 18:14:32< mordante> you're welcome
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20100327 18:18:47< CIA-80> espreon * r41811 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/ (terrain.cfg terrain_graphics.cfg): Made it so that UtBS' campfire terrain is no longer bound to desert.
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20100327 18:37:22< timotei21> fendrin, I have a question about the eclipse plugin
20100327 18:37:51< timotei21> what will increase my chance of approval: a very detailed+technical plan OR working already at the plugin?
20100327 18:40:25< CIA-80> espreon * r41812 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (123 files in 8 dirs): Organized UtBS' unit cfgs.
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20100327 18:46:33< Ivanovic> timotei21: a clear case of *both*
20100327 18:47:05< Ivanovic> timotei21: just from a good proposal but no code samples we got no chance to see if you are able to implement your ideas later on
20100327 18:47:24< timotei21> good
20100327 18:47:27< timotei21> thanks
20100327 18:47:31< Ivanovic> and with code only we got no idea what you really want to do and that you already have a good idea what you want to do
20100327 18:47:44< fendrin> timotei21: Well, if it is me to deceide I like to see a good plan and prefer it over some quick hack. But there is also the possibility that you are able to make a good plan but totally incompetent in coding ...
20100327 18:48:13< fendrin> timotei21: So show us a really good plan. And a short but well implemented example of your coding skills.
20100327 18:48:40-!- pokhbocee [~ebozgul@ws40.cs.drexel.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 18:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | 71 bugs, 257 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100327 19:02:10< timotei21> god, I'm starting to hate windows 7 for some stupid file associations
20100327 19:02:44< timotei21> I think I'm gonna switch to ubuntu/debian, and run windows in a VM
20100327 19:02:55< CIA-80> espreon * r41813 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added the elemental trait for the Dust Devil and the Fire Guardians.
20100327 19:03:09< Espreon> timotei21: That sounds look a good plan... ;)
20100327 19:03:20< timotei21> what part?:D
20100327 19:03:28< timotei21> eclipse plugin or ubuntu switch
20100327 19:03:33< Espreon> The latter.
20100327 19:03:36< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:03:51-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.4.56] has quit [Quit: brb restart windows :))]
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20100327 19:17:45< fakedrake_> hey guys
20100327 19:20:03< timotei21> hello
20100327 19:22:10< Espreon> timotei21: If you decide to go through with switching, you should look at more than just Ubuntu.
20100327 19:22:28< timotei21> well, yeah, I want Debian
20100327 19:22:44< timotei21> or: fedora/mandrake/mandriva
20100327 19:22:54< timotei21> I used them for some time (1-2 weeks)
20100327 19:23:00< timotei21> some long time ago
20100327 19:23:08< Espreon> Mandrake is now Mandriva. ;)
20100327 19:23:12< timotei21> do you recommend me another one?
20100327 19:23:28< Espreon> Well, personally, I use a mangled-up Sabayon install.
20100327 19:23:47< Espreon> Basically: to me Sabayon = instant Gentoo.
20100327 19:23:55< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:24:01< Espreon> But, in the real spirit of Sabayon, it is a binary distro.
20100327 19:24:04< timotei21> let me take a look at that
20100327 19:24:09< Espreon> ... with Portage as an option...
20100327 19:24:32< Espreon> .. if you need something that is not in Entropy/want to use git builds/et cætera
20100327 19:25:10-!- shak [~chatzilla@119.153.102.130] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100327 19:27:07< sjs25> Morning guys
20100327 19:27:21< timotei21> morning
20100327 19:27:22< fendrin> sjs25: It's evening here :-P
20100327 19:27:23< fakedrake_> hi
20100327 19:27:28< sjs25> lol
20100327 19:27:36< fakedrake_> here 2
20100327 19:27:49< sjs25> Anyway, I'm steve. I saw you guys on the GSoC page
20100327 19:27:59< sjs25> Looks like a cool project.
20100327 19:28:06< timotei21> yeah, it is
20100327 19:28:30< sjs25> Has anyone already struck an interest in making an eclipse plugin?
20100327 19:28:55< timotei21> me :P
20100327 19:29:03< darkbluesea> sjs25 i came to the channel by the same means, trough GSoC page :)
20100327 19:29:22< timotei21> and as I saw, there is also another student, that wants, but modified directly in the template:)0
20100327 19:30:10< sjs25> Where'd you see that one?
20100327 19:30:28< timotei21> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SOC_Template_of_Student_Page
20100327 19:30:29< timotei21> :))
20100327 19:31:07< CIA-80> espreon * r41814 /trunk/data/core/macros/utils.cfg: New macro, ON_DIFFICULTY.
20100327 19:31:26< sjs25> I see
20100327 19:31:27< sjs25> Thanks
20100327 19:31:30< timotei21> np
20100327 19:31:59< sjs25> What year are you?
20100327 19:32:04-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-126-201.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20100327 19:32:16< timotei21> 1st in the university
20100327 19:32:19< sjs25> Nice
20100327 19:32:25< timotei21> you?
20100327 19:32:33< sjs25> 3rd
20100327 19:32:38< darkbluesea> i'm on 3rd aswell
20100327 19:32:39< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:33:17< CIA-80> espreon * r41815 /trunk/data/core/macros/utils.cfg: Removed an excessive newline between QUANTIFY and ON_DIFFICULTY
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20100327 19:33:30< sjs25> I'll be back on later to be on IRC, but I need to go do some family stuff
20100327 19:33:31< sjs25> ciao for now.
20100327 19:33:40< darkbluesea> ciao sjs
20100327 19:34:40< timotei21> bye bye
20100327 19:34:52< timotei21> Espreon: http://imagebin.org/90556
20100327 19:34:54< timotei21> :-P
20100327 19:35:14< Espreon> Read the documentation. :P
20100327 19:35:30< timotei21> that was a long time ago :)
20100327 19:35:48< Espreon> From what?
20100327 19:36:01< timotei21> ubuntu 9.04 was giving me random x server errors
20100327 19:36:05< Espreon> Ah.
20100327 19:36:06< timotei21> but fixed them eventually
20100327 19:36:16< timotei21> I have to admit, Sabayan really looks cool!
20100327 19:36:20< Espreon> Indeed.
20100327 19:36:27< timotei21> I mean, I love nice and polished interfaces
20100327 19:36:32< Espreon> I bet it (the actual food) is also yummy...
20100327 19:36:38< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:36:54< Espreon> Well, that was one of the things that drew me to it years ago.
20100327 19:36:55-!- DesertPanther__ [~Khalid@41.131.125.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20100327 19:37:03< timotei21> package manager used?
20100327 19:37:08< timotei21> apt? rpm? pkg?
20100327 19:37:10< Espreon> Entropy or Portage.
20100327 19:37:13< timotei21> oh
20100327 19:37:22< Espreon> The former is binary; the latter is source-based.
20100327 19:37:41-!- General_Fou_Fou [~Sarah@cpe-76-179-189-81.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 19:37:44< Espreon> Both are compatible, however.
20100327 19:38:08< timotei21> I always loved the *nix fonts
20100327 19:38:10< shadowmaster> sabayon is food?
20100327 19:38:24< timotei21> somehow
20100327 19:38:28< timotei21> :-P
20100327 19:38:28-!- ilor_ [~ilor@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 19:38:31< Espreon> shadowmaster: Yes.
20100327 19:38:36-!- sjs25 [~IceChat7@98.117.100.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100327 19:38:36< Espreon> It is some Italian dessert.
20100327 19:38:49< shadowmaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaglione
20100327 19:38:53-!- ilor [~ilor@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100327 19:38:54< Espreon> Yes.
20100327 19:39:31< shadowmaster> sounds good
20100327 19:39:47< Espreon> Indeed, I've always wanted to eat some.
20100327 19:39:48< shadowmaster> I've never heard of it before though.
20100327 19:39:51< timotei21> well...  I can't imagine me eating eggs and strawberries at the same time:D
20100327 19:39:52< shadowmaster> *'d
20100327 19:41:15< Espreon> shadowmaster: Well, I didn't know about it either, until I discovered Sabayon Linux.
20100327 19:41:42< timotei21> Espreon: http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/
20100327 19:41:51< timotei21> I used this a lot for "choosing" my linux
20100327 19:41:59< Espreon> Meh...
20100327 19:43:02< timotei21> and still Debian is on top, and linux mint
20100327 19:43:07< Espreon> Awww, it doesn't offer Chinese Traditional...
20100327 19:43:15-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-126-201.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 19:43:15< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:43:39< timotei21> linux mint has a very cute interface, it almost looks like windows
20100327 19:44:32< shadowmaster> "You can delete or eat the cookies when you are done" ... eh
20100327 19:45:14< fendrin> timotei21: Nice webpage. It tells me to use debian or ubutunto both matching 100%.
20100327 19:45:25< timotei21> :D
20100327 19:45:35< fendrin> s/ubutunto/kubuntu
20100327 19:45:43< Espreon> ... and of course it gives me the distros that I don't like, but, then again, I probably underrated myself for my Linux knowledge... then again... I never give myself enough credit...
20100327 19:46:00< fendrin> Espreon: What did it tell you to use?
20100327 19:46:38< shadowmaster> wow.
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20100327 19:47:00< shadowmaster> I took the test and it suggests Debian and kubuntu to me
20100327 19:47:09< shadowmaster> and I'm using Debian :D
20100327 19:47:19< Espreon> fendrin: Rotten things such as Kubuntu and openSUSE.
20100327 19:47:29< timotei21> :))
20100327 19:47:37< fendrin> Espreon: What is rotten about Kubuntu?
20100327 19:47:37< timotei21> I don't like SUSE either
20100327 19:47:44< shadowmaster> Espreon: kubuntu's not rotten
20100327 19:47:52< Espreon> I do not care.
20100327 19:47:56< Espreon> It is not fun.
20100327 19:47:56< shadowmaster> it's perfectly healthy and kicking ass during their release cycles
20100327 19:48:06< CIA-80> soliton * r41816 /branches/1.8/src/server/server.cpp: made the server accept all 1.8 versions by default
20100327 19:48:25< CIA-80> silene * r41817 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp multiplayer_connect.cpp): Avoided a two-step removal of unwanted attributes. Removed useless function config::prune.
20100327 19:48:37< CIA-80> silene * r41818 /trunk/src/game_config.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:48:42< CIA-80> silene * r41819 /trunk/src/config.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:48:46< CIA-80> silene * r41820 /trunk/src/game.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:48:49< timotei21> lol
20100327 19:48:50< CIA-80> silene * r41821 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:48:54< CIA-80> silene * r41822 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:48:58< CIA-80> silene * r41823 /trunk/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:06< CIA-80> silene * r41824 /trunk/src/savegame.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:10< CIA-80> silene * r41825 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:17< CIA-80> silene * r41826 /trunk/src/variable.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:19< CIA-80> silene * r41827 /trunk/src/theme.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:23< CIA-80> silene * r41828 /trunk/src/tools/exploder_cutter.cpp: Removed usage of config::get_children.
20100327 19:49:28< CIA-80> silene * r41829 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp random.cpp variable.cpp): Added accessors for the nth child of a config object.
20100327 19:49:31< CIA-80> silene * r41830 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp replay.cpp unit.cpp variable.cpp): Renamed config::get_children so that people stop adding it again and again in new places.
20100327 19:49:39< Espreon> Of course, if I use the third option for Linux knowledge, it doesn't suggest that I am God.
20100327 19:49:45< Espreon> Good.
20100327 19:49:49< Espreon> Then I did underrate myself.
20100327 19:50:20< Espreon> (Only asked about package management and compiling stuff)
20100327 19:50:23< Espreon> ... so far...
20100327 19:50:51< Espreon> OK, now it gives me stuff that I like.
20100327 19:50:58< timotei21> :-)
20100327 19:51:00< Espreon> It gave me Gentoo and Slackware.
20100327 19:51:04< Espreon> Both at 90%.
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20100327 20:04:54< fakedrake_> does anyone know what this with_bars parameter in the unit animation class constructor is?
20100327 20:05:31< shadowmaster> (guessing) I guess that it is used to choose whether the HP and XP bars are displayed o rnot
20100327 20:05:46< fakedrake_> ah
20100327 20:05:50< fakedrake_> that makes sense
20100327 20:05:52< fakedrake_> thanx
20100327 20:06:27-!- Master_Chief [~chatzilla@59.177.7.129] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:07:32< fendrin> fakedrake_: I have had a look at the code during adding unit animation support to the map editor and as far as I understood shadowmaster's guess is right.
20100327 20:11:02< shadowmaster> okay, filed a bug re the test suite and Boost 1.42.x
20100327 20:13:02< Soliton> boucman: http://gna.org/bugs/?15689  know anything about this?
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20100327 20:24:09< Soliton> zookeeper: http://gna.org/bugs/?15712  something you can apply or reject?
20100327 20:28:04-!- Dawn [~808a0d77@gateway/web/freenode/x-abmjdindhxvfowbx] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:29:06< Dawn> Where can i find documentation on terrain defense bonuses and movement cost?
20100327 20:29:13< zookeeper> Soliton, ok, i'll handle it..
20100327 20:30:00< Soliton> Dawn: units.wesnoth.org?
20100327 20:30:21< Ivanovic> or do you prefer manual.wesnoth.org for "how does it work"?
20100327 20:30:31< zookeeper> 1.8 still isn't branched, right?
20100327 20:30:38< Ivanovic> it is branched
20100327 20:30:38< Soliton> nope, it is.
20100327 20:30:48< zookeeper> oh, ok. gotta get a checkout for that too, then..
20100327 20:30:58< Ivanovic> esr: and you can add dead water to trunk once you are ready!
20100327 20:31:07< shadowmaster> gaa
20100327 20:31:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: huh?
20100327 20:31:32< shadowmaster> what's the status of DM in wesnoth-umc-dev? I thought esr wanted to make revisions to it
20100327 20:31:53< Ivanovic> delfadors memoirs?
20100327 20:32:00< shadowmaster> er, DW
20100327 20:32:04< esr> Dead Water is ready,
20100327 20:32:29< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: i thought that this polishing was already done while trunk was in feature freeze
20100327 20:32:31-!- Reginleifu [Burizo@dhcp-0034045153-6d-2e.client.student.harvard.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:32:38< esr> It's been ready for months, actually.  Leastr work I've *ever* had to do on a UNC lift.
20100327 20:32:58< shadowmaster> shikadibot: UNC?
20100327 20:32:58< shikadibot> Sorry, I don't know what 'UNC' means...
20100327 20:33:14< shadowmaster> pretty sure it's a windows term at the very least
20100327 20:33:15-!- shak [~chatzilla@203.99.177.176] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:33:19< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: S/UNC/UMC
20100327 20:33:20< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 20:33:36< shadowmaster> that doesn't sound fun, does it?
20100327 20:33:45< esr> Just my carnivorous typos, sorry.
20100327 20:34:21< Reginleifu> Hello all
20100327 20:34:25< Reginleifu> Er...sorry if I'm interrupting
20100327 20:34:26< esr> Damn, beetlenaut did a *good* job on that.  I hope he write another one.
20100327 20:34:36< Reginleifu> But is this the channel for the google summer of code for BoW?
20100327 20:34:45< esr> Reginleifu: What can we do for you?
20100327 20:34:48< Ivanovic> Reginleifu: it is our regular development channel
20100327 20:34:52< esr> Ahhh.
20100327 20:34:57< zookeeper> esr, he has posted the beginnings of a new one on the forums. surprisingly, i don't think it seems nearly as good as DW.
20100327 20:35:00< shadowmaster> esr: have you contacted beetlenaut about this? will he want to continue working on DW on mainline? etc.
20100327 20:35:01< Ivanovic> Reginleifu: and yes, the summer of code stuff takes place in here, too
20100327 20:35:13< Ivanovic> (in fact for us this is part of normal development by now ;) )
20100327 20:35:25< Reginleifu> Ah, I see
20100327 20:35:34< zookeeper> but then again, maybe he's planning on fleshing out each scenario a lot more, but what's there so far is extremely simple
20100327 20:35:35< Reginleifu> I was just reading down the application instructions, haha
20100327 20:35:46< Reginleifu> Give me a second as I find what to do next... XD
20100327 20:35:55< esr> shadowmaster: We've discussed it.  He thinks it's in a good stable state.  If we need to give him commit access to fix it we can do that later.
20100327 20:36:20< shadowmaster> esr: and who'll handle artwork commits? AFAIK there are still things to be done in that regard
20100327 20:37:13< esr> I don't know.  I could take responsibility for passing in the art commits, if you want.
20100327 20:38:08-!- Burizo [Burizo@dhcp-0034045153-6d-2e.client.student.harvard.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:38:19< Ivanovic> Reginleifu: always a good plan: download wesnoth and "test" it for any issues you might find
20100327 20:38:33< Ivanovic> yes, testing is one of the most important tasks of an open source game developer
20100327 20:38:35< YogiHH> Ivanovic: Is 1.8 officially out meanwhile?
20100327 20:38:42< Ivanovic> (cool if testing is actually fun!)
20100327 20:38:43< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 20:38:49< Ivanovic> YogiHH: it is tagged but not announced
20100327 20:38:53< YogiHH> ok
20100327 20:38:59< Ivanovic> what do you call "officially out"?
20100327 20:39:07< Burizo> Haha
20100327 20:39:25< Reginleifu> Hm
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20100327 20:39:45< Reginleifu> Testing games is never too much of a hassle ;]
20100327 20:39:56< Ivanovic> that is: currently is the time for packaging and testing the binaries
20100327 20:40:15< Reginleifu> I just had a few questions: how stringent will the application process be? 
20100327 20:40:17< Ivanovic> and it is unlikely that there will be any last minuite changes anywhere
20100327 20:40:34< Ivanovic> Reginleifu: hard to say what you call "stringent"
20100327 20:40:46-!- gabba [~gabba@70.35.163.201] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 20:40:50< Reginleifu> Ivanovic: As in, how many people are you guys looking for?
20100327 20:40:53< Ivanovic> Reginleifu: there will be quite many students, several times more students than we can accept at the end
20100327 20:40:56< gabba> Hi
20100327 20:41:13< Ivanovic> eg last year we had over 30 proposed projects
20100327 20:41:20< YogiHH> hi gabba
20100327 20:41:21< Ivanovic> at the end we could only mentor 6
20100327 20:41:35< Ivanovic> regarding what to best do to get selected in the end:
20100327 20:41:39< Ivanovic> be a developer!
20100327 20:41:43< Ivanovic> yes, no joke here!
20100327 20:41:51< Ivanovic> get used to our codebase
20100327 20:42:08< Ivanovic> show that you can get stuff done and are able to submit work
20100327 20:42:28< Ivanovic> talk with us about what you do and when you got questions
20100327 20:42:38-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100327 20:42:42< gabba> wesbot: seen espreon
20100327 20:42:42< wesbot> gabba: The person with the nick Espreon last spoke 51m 38s ago.  23m 51s ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
20100327 20:43:21< Reginleifu> Ivanovic: I see. So I'm guessing selection will be based mostly on interaction w/ staff, proposal, and demonstrated skill
20100327 20:43:29< Ivanovic> correct
20100327 20:43:30< Reginleifu> Ivanovic: over say, resume, etc.
20100327 20:43:39< Ivanovic> exactly
20100327 20:43:42< boucman> hey all,
20100327 20:43:47< crimson_penguin> hi boucman 
20100327 20:43:55< Reginleifu> Sounds excellent, my kind of project. ;] Better get started on this game.
20100327 20:44:00< Ivanovic> we don't care much if the one applying does have *whatever* in the resume
20100327 20:44:07< Ivanovic> we are more about getting stuff done
20100327 20:45:35< Acabol> hey ivanovic, are you from serbia?
20100327 20:45:36< Acabol> heh
20100327 20:45:45< Ivanovic> no
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20100327 20:45:51< Acabol> ah
20100327 20:45:57< timotei21> 2 more choices left
20100327 20:45:58< timotei21> :P
20100327 20:46:04< timotei21> out of 3
20100327 20:46:12< Ivanovic> timotei21: and they are wrong, too (most likely that is)
20100327 20:46:22< Acabol> lol
20100327 20:46:36< timotei21> ok, 1 min
20100327 20:46:42< stikonas> does anybody know what was decided about the port to OpenGL and whether it will happen?
20100327 20:46:53< timotei21> I'll be doing some magic to find your homeplace
20100327 20:46:58< Ivanovic> using google or info about the chans i am in is not fair, that is cheating!
20100327 20:47:08< Acabol> haha
20100327 20:47:25< timotei21> of
20100327 20:47:37< timotei21> right on time... 
20100327 20:47:37< boucman> stikonas: it's still something we would like but was deemed too big a task for GSoC and thus not made into a proposal
20100327 20:47:52< timotei21> ok, without searching...
20100327 20:48:01< CIA-80> zookeeper * r41831 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/ (Clasher.cfg Enforcer.cfg Thrasher.cfg): Fixed bug #15712 by making the sw,se spear animations be used also on ne,n,nw.
20100327 20:48:29< Ivanovic> stikonas: the SoC task is nothing that can be done by a single person and it is not easy to define a "subproject" there that can be completed in any way unless "several others" are working on opengl, too
20100327 20:48:37< Ivanovic> too many cross cutting concerns
20100327 20:48:47< timotei21> Dutch?
20100327 20:48:47< Acabol> oh yeah so what counts as a patch, in the "two patches you're in" rule heh
20100327 20:49:13< Ivanovic> timotei21: no
20100327 20:49:14< shadowmaster> timotei21: close
20100327 20:49:27< stikonas> Yeah, I understand that this task is too big for students, I was more interested if any of the developers thought about doing it
20100327 20:49:30< boucman> gabba: around ?
20100327 20:49:36< Ivanovic> Acabol: uhm, you know, patches like the stuff at patches.wesnoth.org
20100327 20:49:38< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 20:49:47< shadowmaster> boucman: will you work on patch #1536 or do you want to reassign it to me?
20100327 20:49:50< gabba> boucman: yes
20100327 20:49:53< gabba> boucman: about https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1381 , it can be considered Kegie's for now, he did more work on it than me
20100327 20:49:59< boucman> wesbot: patch 1536
20100327 20:49:59< wesbot> Patch #1536  Assigned to: Jérémy Rosen <boucman>  Status: None  Priority: 3 - Low
20100327 20:50:02< wesbot> Summary: Back Button for Story screens
20100327 20:50:05< wesbot> Original submission: Added the back button for story screens, tested for most 
20100327 20:50:08< wesbot> of the base campaigns.
20100327 20:50:10< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/patch/?1536
20100327 20:50:13< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/patch/download.php?file_id=8549
20100327 20:50:17< shadowmaster> boucman: more like, what's the missing update?
20100327 20:50:22< Acabol> ah cool aright
20100327 20:50:24< boucman> gabba: ok
20100327 20:50:34< gabba> boucman: but I'll finish it if Kegie doesn't show up in a few days
20100327 20:50:57< timotei21> Holland then?
20100327 20:51:08< boucman> gabba: btw, you had two patches in this morning, and I consider them significant enough, so if you want to have commit priv in wesnoth, please apply via gna...
20100327 20:51:20< shadowmaster> timotei21: nope
20100327 20:51:25< timotei21> :(
20100327 20:51:26< timotei21> ok
20100327 20:51:28< Ivanovic> ehm, "holland" is just a part of the netherlands and would be covered by "dutch"
20100327 20:51:30< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 20:51:40< timotei21> wait...
20100327 20:51:50< Acabol> finland?
20100327 20:51:51< timotei21> I mis-thought...
20100327 20:51:52< gabba> boucman: yes, I saw the commits, thanks for getting those in :)
20100327 20:52:00< shadowmaster> Acabol: that's too far to the northeast, no
20100327 20:52:01< timotei21> I wanted to say: denmark
20100327 20:52:10< timotei21> hans christian andersen
20100327 20:52:17< Acabol> ...sweden? heh
20100327 20:52:25< timotei21> s/andersen/andersen's home
20100327 20:52:56< boucman> shadowmaster: as you wish, it's simple enough that I can commit it myself, but it's not my area, it's yours, so you get priority
20100327 20:52:59< gabba> boucman: can you point me to the right page on gna! ?
20100327 20:53:02< Ivanovic> why are you thinking that i would be living this far in the north?
20100327 20:53:10< Ivanovic> by far too cold for my taste...
20100327 20:53:13< Acabol> i donno
20100327 20:53:20< Acabol> im just naming places at this point heh
20100327 20:53:22< timotei21> then is switzerland?
20100327 20:53:29< Acabol> or belgium?
20100327 20:53:33< Ivanovic> timotei21: more in the south but too cold
20100327 20:53:44 * Ivanovic does not like mountains too much
20100327 20:53:56< Acabol> how bout the water?
20100327 20:54:03< timotei21> Danube?:>
20100327 20:54:46-!- titouu [~bda98d0c@gateway/web/freenode/x-unszuiulevmbpyli] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100327 20:54:46< Acabol> in any case
20100327 20:54:50< Ivanovic> oh, water is fine though from the exact place where i live the next ocean is some 250km away, too
20100327 20:54:50< Acabol> your name is a very serbian last name heh
20100327 20:55:06< Ivanovic> and my nickname has nothing to do with my real name and where i am from
20100327 20:55:09< Acabol> ah
20100327 20:55:10< Acabol> heh
20100327 20:55:21< shadowmaster> boucman: yeah, but what you meant with "wenever you update your patch? is it just because you think that file #8549 might no longer apply on trunk?
20100327 20:55:24< shadowmaster> *whenever
20100327 20:55:37< shadowmaster> or is there something else I'm missing? (a discussion on IRC, etc.)
20100327 20:55:54< timotei21> portugal
20100327 20:55:54< timotei21> :D
20100327 20:56:02< timotei21> french can't be
20100327 20:56:17< boucman> shadowmaster: no, it's more because I had remarks and, by principle I don't apply a patch until it's perfect ;)
20100327 20:56:32< boucman> no changelog, no about.cfg
20100327 20:56:37< shadowmaster> ah, those
20100327 20:56:39< Ivanovic> timotei21: uhm, are there really places in portugal that are 250km away from the ocean?
20100327 20:56:55< timotei21> well... portugal is right near the ocean...
20100327 20:57:06< shadowmaster> boucman: yeah, well, in that case in can wait :P
20100327 20:57:27< Ivanovic> the country i live is at some ocean, too
20100327 20:57:28< timotei21> I hate windows 7... can't open anymore the WML .cfg files with eclipse =))
20100327 20:57:49< timotei21> ok, france, and I give up
20100327 20:58:02< shadowmaster> timotei21: the answer's first letter is 'G'
20100327 20:58:25< timotei21> we're greece... is in the mediteranean sea
20100327 20:58:25< timotei21> :D
20100327 20:58:29< boucman> shadowmaster: that's only true in english
20100327 20:58:38< shadowmaster> bout we are speaking in English! :p
20100327 20:58:42< shadowmaster> but.
20100327 20:58:48< Ivanovic> even though i like greek food: no
20100327 20:58:58< timotei21> ok, as I said, I give up
20100327 20:59:21< Ivanovic> shame on you!
20100327 20:59:26< timotei21> :(
20100327 20:59:33< YogiHH> he country is the same as mine ;)
20100327 20:59:40< YogiHH> s/he/his
20100327 20:59:50< Ivanovic> it is a country where several people working on wesnoth come from
20100327 21:00:07< timotei21>  Jörg Hinrichs
20100327 21:00:09< Ivanovic> no matter if we talk about artwork, c++ code, wml code or translations
20100327 21:00:10< timotei21> that's germany
20100327 21:00:11< timotei21> :))
20100327 21:00:20< stikonas> finally
20100327 21:00:24< timotei21> but wait...
20100327 21:00:31< timotei21> 250km away from the ocean...
20100327 21:00:43< timotei21> that's the northren and baltic sea
20100327 21:00:48< timotei21> in the nort of germany :D
20100327 21:00:51< Ivanovic> yeah, the town i live in is this far away from the next ocean
20100327 21:01:10< Ivanovic> i have not said that the *country* is this far from the ocean
20100327 21:01:17< Ivanovic> [20:54:50] <Ivanovic> oh, water is fine though from the exact place where i live the next ocean is some 250km away, too
20100327 21:01:27< timotei21> yes...
20100327 21:01:34< stikonas> technically speaking the sea is not the ocean
20100327 21:01:39< timotei21> yea...
20100327 21:01:42< YogiHH> :-P
20100327 21:01:46< timotei21> that's what I was talking about:D
20100327 21:02:15< Ivanovic> timotei21: the atlantic ocean is just south of england
20100327 21:02:35< timotei21> but nvm, I'm "busying" the others.
20100327 21:02:38< Ivanovic> and from the place i live it is not much farther to the atlantic than it is to the northern sea
20100327 21:02:53< stikonas> timotei21: what country are you from?
20100327 21:02:59< stikonas> I'm just curious
20100327 21:03:16< timotei21> One of the countries that Danubes passes through
20100327 21:03:30< timotei21> s/Danubes/Danube
20100327 21:03:36< pokhbocee> hungary?
20100327 21:03:38< timotei21> I'm the last one
20100327 21:03:49< timotei21> from the 10-nth countries
20100327 21:03:55< ancestral> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany (7.5%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria (10.3%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia (5.8%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary (11.7%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia (4.5%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia (10.3%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania (28.9%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria (5.2%), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldova (0.017%), and 
20100327 21:03:55< ancestral> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
20100327 21:04:02< timotei21> and the one
20100327 21:04:06< timotei21> with the most 
20100327 21:04:19< timotei21> with the most of danube (aprox 1300 kms)
20100327 21:04:20< timotei21> Romania
20100327 21:04:34< stikonas> ancestral is cheating :)
20100327 21:04:43< ancestral> Oops
20100327 21:04:43< pokhbocee> wow we are almost neighbours :D
20100327 21:04:51< timotei21> :))
20100327 21:04:52< Ivanovic> stikonas: you know, there are many developers in here
20100327 21:04:58< pokhbocee> im from turkey :D
20100327 21:04:59< Ivanovic> stikonas: we got what is called "debug mode"
20100327 21:05:04< timotei21> nice:P
20100327 21:05:11< Ivanovic> using the debug mode is not cheating, it is helping the development
20100327 21:05:12< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 21:05:39< stikonas> yeah, but debug mode is disabled in multiplayer
20100327 21:06:09-!- shak [~chatzilla@203.99.177.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100327 21:06:25< Ivanovic> but only because the developers decided to do this
20100327 21:06:40< Ivanovic> if the changes would be submitted via network, debug mode would work in MP, too
20100327 21:07:08< stikonas> and suddenly there would be many OOS error ;)
20100327 21:07:17< stikonas> in MP games
20100327 21:07:42< Ivanovic> no, that is what the submitting of changes part is about
20100327 21:08:04< Ivanovic> those would prevent oos error though lead to, uhm, interesting results in the stuff the oponents write...
20100327 21:08:20< stikonas> ok, but then it would be a game who types :debug faster, not who playes better
20100327 21:08:48< Ivanovic> pah, we could hide some "developer only" password for this
20100327 21:08:57< Ivanovic> and noone could find it since it is in the source code which...
20100327 21:09:09< stikonas> is read only by the developers :)
20100327 21:09:09< Ivanovic> ...damn, everybody can download...
20100327 21:11:26< gabba> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100327 21:11:26< wesbot> gabba: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 21h 41m ago.  20h 37m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100327 21:13:05< Acabol> so hey someone was saying that they want to port the project to openGL
20100327 21:13:09< Acabol> ...whats it using currently?
20100327 21:13:23< Ivanovic> plain sdl
20100327 21:13:26< Acabol> ah
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20100327 21:13:34< Acabol> interesting
20100327 21:13:44< Acabol> what if *a few* students worked on porting to openGL
20100327 21:13:52< Acabol> (i do have experience in openGL)
20100327 21:14:00< Acabol> duno about the other one suggesting it
20100327 21:14:08< Ivanovic> Acabol: SoC sadly has to be "one student per project"
20100327 21:14:11-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20100327 21:14:15< Acabol> aw
20100327 21:14:21< boucman> Acabol: moreover, syncing students is very tricky
20100327 21:14:26< Acabol> true
20100327 21:14:32< boucman> syncing full fledge devs is already quite a bet...
20100327 21:14:36< Ivanovic> that is: the sole project "ABC and XYZ will be working on exactly one project" is not a good thing to do
20100327 21:14:54< Ivanovic> two years ago in SoC we had two students work on AI
20100327 21:15:10< Ivanovic> their work as basically one on "real AI formulas" and the other on the "basis" for the formulas
20100327 21:15:16< Ivanovic> yes, this is possible
20100327 21:15:48< Ivanovic> the problem was that the one working on the basic system basically dropped out (had another job, too and thought he was able to complete both jobs)
20100327 21:16:01< Acabol> ah
20100327 21:16:08< Ivanovic> so the one working on the formulas suddenly had to do a lot more than planned on the basic system
20100327 21:16:27< Ivanovic> taking lots of his time and we had to reduce the "original goals" because of this
20100327 21:17:03< Ivanovic> in general it is not good to have two students in SoC working on basically the same area with connections between boths
20100327 21:17:05< Ivanovic> -s
20100327 21:17:29< Acabol> ah aright
20100327 21:17:38< Soliton> boucman: maybe we should put some note about graphics bugs into the ReportingBugs page? like, we're aware of images not being up to the standard etc, no need to report that.
20100327 21:18:01< Soliton> i believe there was an increase in such reports lately.
20100327 21:18:16-!- thespaceinvader [~chatzilla@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 21:19:51< boucman> thespaceinvader: i've assigned a bug to you, though it's probably a won't fix...
20100327 21:19:56-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.4.56] has quit [Quit: brb logoff]
20100327 21:20:57< thespaceinvader> inideed, i think we discussed that one before, didn't we?
20100327 21:22:06-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.4.56] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 21:23:29< gabba> General notice: I edited the GSoC idea at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#SoC_Ideas:_WML_Debugging_Support , since the title wasn't showing correctly in the list: there was no Description section
20100327 21:24:04< gabba> Someone should double-check the change
20100327 21:24:30< gabba> And maybe add a proper description summary?
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20100327 21:24:51< ancestral> You might want to make the points there into a bullet point list
20100327 21:25:01< ancestral> Instead of running together in one paragraph :)
20100327 21:25:34< ancestral> I think you just start the line with an asterisk * followed by the point 
20100327 21:25:36< gabba> I could, but I'm definitely not the one who posted the idea, so I hesitate to edit it even more
20100327 21:26:07< gabba> Oh well, I'm gonna do the bullet list too while I'm at it
20100327 21:26:52< gabba> Here you go, done
20100327 21:27:12-!- theodore [~theodore@bel60-1-82-233-58-203.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100327 21:32:09< timotei21> fendrin, are you here?
20100327 21:36:46< gabba> btw boucman, you told me you found http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-SpriteSheets_Gabba confusing to read, to I improved the layout and added more info
20100327 21:37:03< gabba> now I really need to get my other, main proposal to that level too...
20100327 21:38:12< gabba> s/to/so
20100327 21:38:14< boucman> gabba: are you asking me to review it ?
20100327 21:39:00< gabba> boucman: not really, you can save that for when what exactly we want to do with sprite sheets has stabilized
20100327 21:39:12< gabba> boucman: it was just for your info
20100327 21:39:36< boucman> ok, cool
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20100327 21:52:03< Reginleifu> Hmm
20100327 21:52:11< Reginleifu> Any moderator
20100327 21:52:19< boucman> depends
20100327 21:52:24< Reginleifu> There's still ample time left to come up with ideas/propositions/do stuff for GSoC, right?
20100327 21:52:37< timotei21> deadline is 9 april
20100327 21:52:43< timotei21> deadline for submitting the applications
20100327 21:52:49< Reginleifu> I'm sure quite a few applicants have started already, though?
20100327 21:53:13< timotei21> some started with fixing bugs, other started their future project
20100327 21:53:25< timotei21> afair
20100327 21:53:27< boucman> yes, sure
20100327 21:53:45< Reginleifu> hmm
20100327 21:53:46< Reginleifu> gotcha
20100327 21:53:47< Reginleifu> all right
20100327 21:53:56< Reginleifu> but there's still time for a newcomer to start, I hop?
20100327 21:53:58< Reginleifu> *hope
20100327 21:54:07< boucman> sure is
20100327 21:55:07< Reginleifu> Excellent
20100327 21:55:08< Reginleifu> All right
20100327 21:55:11< Reginleifu> Better start asap, haha
20100327 21:55:13< Reginleifu> the game seems fun enough
20100327 21:55:34< timotei21> :D
20100327 21:55:55< timotei21> what you want to work on?
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20100327 22:03:46< timotei21> ok guys, I'm off
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20100327 22:14:49< fakedrake_> hey um guys
20100327 22:15:01-!- darkbluesea [~naia@89-180-104-229.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100327 22:15:03< fakedrake_> i need some help with the animation code
20100327 22:15:05< boucman> yes ?
20100327 22:15:30< fakedrake_> it seems to me
20100327 22:15:45< fakedrake_> that each frame is loaded in real time from the disk
20100327 22:15:52< fakedrake_> but that cant be the case
20100327 22:16:11< boucman> no, they are loaded on first need IIRC, then cached
20100327 22:16:28< boucman> (cache is clearedd fromtime to time, though on change of ToD IIRC)
20100327 22:16:47< fakedrake_> IIRC
20100327 22:16:49< fakedrake_> ?
20100327 22:16:59< boucman> shikadibot: IIRC ?
20100327 22:16:59< shikadibot> IIRC: if I recall correctly
20100327 22:17:03< fakedrake_> oh
20100327 22:17:27< fakedrake_> hmm
20100327 22:17:40-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100327 22:17:51< fakedrake_> i ll look it a little more
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20100327 22:25:52< fakedrake_> ok i got it
20100327 22:25:54< fakedrake_> thanx
20100327 22:25:55< fakedrake_> :D
20100327 22:27:14< Ivanovic> gabba: added you to the wesnoth group at gna
20100327 22:27:32< Ivanovic> gabba: you should switch your checkout now to one that belongs to your user so that you can eventually commit
20100327 22:27:59< gabba> Ivanovic: thanks
20100327 22:28:01< Ivanovic> gabba: that is: make sure you have a key registered at gna (adding a new key there takes some hours for the system to register it)
20100327 22:28:35< ancestral> Gabba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabba_Gabba_Hey
20100327 22:28:53< gabba> Ivanovic: is there an svn command that allows re-orienting a working copy to a different repo?
20100327 22:28:55-!- Upthorn [ogmar@adsl-75-26-184-116.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100327 22:29:28< gabba> ancestral: yeah, people think my nick means all kinds of things, while I actually made it up some years ago :P
20100327 22:29:29< Ivanovic> gabba: svn switch svn+ssh://gabba@svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth
20100327 22:29:33< Ivanovic> in the root of your checkout
20100327 22:29:43< Ivanovic> it *might* require a --relocate switch, not sure
20100327 22:29:49< ancestral> And not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabbo
20100327 22:30:00< Ivanovic> oh, right, and don't forget the /trunk or /branches/1.8 at the end
20100327 22:30:10-!- mordocai [~mordocai@66.119.9.243] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 22:30:33< gabba> Ivanovic: thanks, I'll do that
20100327 22:31:14< gabba> ancestral: the first one you linked to is actually pretty cool
20100327 22:31:39< gabba> ancestral: you must have some time to kill to run a search on my nick :D
20100327 22:32:16< ancestral> If by that you mean typing en.wikipedia.org/wiki/search-query-here then yes
20100327 22:33:48< gabba> ancestral: People never seem to think of this dude though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabba_the_Hutt
20100327 22:34:17-!- fkhodkov [~fedor76@ppp-188-65-8-66-bras1.istra.ru] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100327 22:34:27< gabba> ancestral: could be another "mysterious origin" for my handle... muhaha
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20100327 22:54:57< gabba> Ivanovic: if I want someone to review my changes before committing, I suppose it can still be a good idea to submit them as a patch?
20100327 22:55:17< Ivanovic> gabba: or just ask for someone to review things in here
20100327 22:55:23< Ivanovic> that is: pastebin the patch and post the link
20100327 22:56:00< gabba> ok, good. I don't want to go around breaking compilation or doing other stupid stuff :P
20100327 22:56:04< fakedrake_> what did u patch gabba?
20100327 22:56:26< gabba> fakedrake_: right now, nothing, or you mean in the past?
20100327 22:56:51< boucman> 1528 and 1556 IIRC
20100327 22:57:09< fakedrake_> gabba: i mean what is the patch you want someone to review
20100327 22:57:33< gabba> fakedrake_: right that's what I thought you understood
20100327 22:57:46< gabba> fakedrake_: nothing actually, I was asking in case the situation pops up
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20100327 22:58:10< fakedrake_> ok :)
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20100327 23:13:08< fakedrake_> i was thinking about the spritesheet idea
20100327 23:13:17< fakedrake_> (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_SpriteSheets)
20100327 23:13:44< fakedrake_> and i had this simple idea
20100327 23:14:37< fakedrake_> what if we changed the frames_ variable
20100327 23:15:44< fakedrake_> to be a vector of parts of the main picture
20100327 23:15:58< fakedrake_> instead of independent pictures
20100327 23:16:14< fakedrake_> since it is all private it wont make much difference
20100327 23:16:28< fakedrake_> in the rest of the code
20100327 23:16:40< fakedrake_> just thought i would say it
20100327 23:16:54< fakedrake_> i will work on it a bit and give some code
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20100327 23:17:19< boucman> fakedrake_: that could be a way to implement it, but i'm more interested on the WML side API then the code side changes
20100327 23:17:25< boucman> (from a proposal point of view that is)
20100327 23:18:02< boucman> your proposal, if implemented naively, would mean a change in WML syntax to specify where the image is, which would be hard to be backward compatible
20100327 23:19:19< fakedrake_> actually i thought that the information about the frame size and position in the image would be in a script in the images directory(or wherever)
20100327 23:19:51< fakedrake_> i mean that would de defined in an independent script
20100327 23:20:05< fakedrake_> i hope that made sense
20100327 23:20:47< boucman> so you would add a separate file which would map "filename xxx" in wml with "spritesheet XXX at position xywh" 
20100327 23:20:54< boucman> that would be a way to implement it
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20100327 23:21:03< fakedrake_> yes exactly
20100327 23:21:08< boucman> if the image exist use the image if it doesn't, use the spritesheet
20100327 23:21:34< fakedrake_> yes great idea
20100327 23:22:16< boucman> fakedrake_: that's an interesting way to do it, you would probably have to find a way to make spritesheets easy to handle (automatically replacing an image in a spritesheet for example)
20100327 23:22:31< fakedrake_> but i was thinking more of "each animation has its own file with the positions, sizes and other parameters about each frame"
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20100327 23:23:10< fakedrake_> this way we could have an animation to have each frame read from different files if nececary
20100327 23:23:59< boucman> fakedrake_: I don't really understand the details, but I think you have food for thought, please write it in a proposal
20100327 23:24:09< fakedrake_> ok
20100327 23:24:11< fakedrake_> :)
20100327 23:24:43< fakedrake_> (i might need some help with that..)
20100327 23:24:54< fakedrake_> like where do i do that?
20100327 23:25:40< fakedrake_> should i just go on the soc proposal and post mine underneath?
20100327 23:26:42< boucman> fakedrake_: create a wiki page, 
20100327 23:26:51< boucman> there is a template somewhere, gimme a sec
20100327 23:27:05< boucman> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
20100327 23:28:08< fakedrake_> thank you
20100327 23:28:35< fakedrake_> i will try to have a patch till tomorrow
20100327 23:28:54< fakedrake_> (and the proposal of course)
20100327 23:34:49< fakedrake_> wow it sais here i should introduce myself in irc before applying for soc
20100327 23:35:18< boucman> well, you did :)
20100327 23:35:37< fakedrake_> ...yeah... i guess
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20100327 23:37:18< fakedrake_> i imagined a more "hello everyone my real name is Chris what are your names ...etc"-type of introduction
20100327 23:37:45< fakedrake_> anyway back to work
20100327 23:38:03< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: uhm, why?
20100327 23:38:08< Ivanovic> does this really matter this much?
20100327 23:38:10< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 23:38:29< fakedrake_> not really...
20100327 23:38:32 * boucman doesn't know the first name of half the long term wesnoth contributors :)
20100327 23:38:50< Ivanovic> boucman: sounds familiar
20100327 23:38:58< shadowmaster> my name is Spinach, the last name is Master
20100327 23:39:23< fakedrake_> :D
20100327 23:39:28< shadowmaster> my work is not saving the world from fatty foods
20100327 23:39:50< Ivanovic> was it not saving the world from fatty foods by eating them yourself?
20100327 23:39:52< Ivanovic> ;)
20100327 23:40:19< shadowmaster> look, an airplane! *runs*
20100327 23:40:59< Ivanovic> "i am not easy to impress... wow, look there, a blue car!!!"
20100327 23:41:01< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100327 23:42:45< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: just because we do not have some formal "hi, my name is..." process does not mean that we are only coding in some dead serious manner, we also do have our fun in here
20100327 23:43:13< Ivanovic> though in general for us it does not matter if you are young or old, male or female, german or american, ...
20100327 23:44:28< fakedrake_> :D
20100327 23:44:29< fakedrake_> cool
20100327 23:44:41< fakedrake_> may i ask something else?
20100327 23:45:01< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: the introducing yourself is basically just something like "join irc so that we can talk with each other about things since this is our main communications channel"
20100327 23:45:17< Ivanovic> uhm, you know, questions are prohibited in here
20100327 23:45:33< Ivanovic> that is: questions asking if you are allowed to ask something are strictly forbidden
20100327 23:45:35< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100327 23:46:50< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: in irc you should just ask your questions, and asking "are you around, ABC" is not a good question, better something like "ABC: i'd like to talk about 'whatever', got some spare mins for me?"
20100327 23:46:51< fakedrake_> is there a significant differenece in speed and/or memory in reading from different parts of the same sdl surface and reading the same amount of data from different surfaces
20100327 23:47:12< fakedrake_> ok
20100327 23:47:49< Ivanovic> no idea, maybe boucman knows this
20100327 23:48:00< Ivanovic> though "in a perfect world" i'd guess: no
20100327 23:48:01< fakedrake_> i am just still a bit intimidated...
20100327 23:48:16< shadowmaster> yeah, I'm that scary
20100327 23:48:28< Ivanovic> in a real world: probably there is a difference due to stuff called "cache" though this is a little unpredictible...
20100327 23:48:37< fakedrake_> the pidgin community wasnt that cool(in the friendly-type manner)
20100327 23:48:38< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: you should better hide in some shadow
20100327 23:48:56< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: there is a difference between "the community" and "the developers"
20100327 23:49:05< Ivanovic> in a community there are always some assholes
20100327 23:49:19< fakedrake_> :)
20100327 23:49:27< Ivanovic> that is: especially the forums can at times be rather rough, though we try to keep things on a sane level
20100327 23:49:47< Ivanovic> this does not directly say things about how it works out in a development related channel
20100327 23:49:49< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: nah, I'm starting to pay attention at how the students want to implement spritesheets for the reasons I mentioned in the forums
20100327 23:50:17< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: it is good that you pay some attention to this since you also know the artwork side of this stuff a little
20100327 23:51:38< shadowmaster> I personally wouldn't have any problems working with spritesheets. It doesn't bring any new advantages or disadvantages to me at the creative side
20100327 23:52:08< shadowmaster> I'll still need to do a bunch of GIMP tricks to get a static animation preview
20100327 23:53:07< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: regarding your question about the surfaces and speed: i would not be suprised if no wesnoth dev so far really had a look if it does make a difference or not
20100327 23:53:22< fakedrake_> i once tried to work with spritesheets and found it hard to calculate the distace between the frames
20100327 23:54:05< fakedrake_> then whats the point of working with spritesheets?
20100327 23:54:23< fakedrake_> except tidyness in the directories
20100327 23:54:30< shadowmaster> I'm not "all artists"!
20100327 23:54:50< boucman> Ivanovic: probably true
20100327 23:55:03< Ivanovic> fakedrake_: have a look at the current png files wesnoth does ship
20100327 23:55:04< fakedrake_> (neither am i, i was just testing an enigine i was making)
20100327 23:55:06< shadowmaster> also, I'm too dumb to use a profiler
20100327 23:55:18< Ivanovic> compare those to the blocksize of filesystems
20100327 23:55:20< boucman> the push from spritesheets manly comes because it seems spritesheets are what cause the huge decrease in mem in the iphone port
20100327 23:55:42< shadowmaster> right now, if we implemented spritesheets with my ~CROP() function we'd have an increase in memory usage ;)
20100327 23:56:13< Ivanovic> you will see a huge difference in the space that has to be allocated to what is really used, which extremely improves with spritesheets since the images are gatherd in one bigger image and thus there is less overhead to the next full block
20100327 23:56:45< Ivanovic> a benefit is also that many similar "forms" and colors (as with units and animations) in one png seems to also give a better compression in general
20100327 23:57:06< fakedrake_> so its not a runtime issue
20100327 23:57:11< fakedrake_> right?
20100327 23:57:31< Ivanovic> it *could* be a runtime issue, too
20100327 23:57:49< Ivanovic> since this at least seems to be one of the big reasons why the iphone port is satisfied with less memory used
20100327 23:58:03< Ivanovic> the only problem is that the whole iphone port is an ugly hack
20100327 23:58:20< Ivanovic> lots of stuff hardcoded, nothing that can easily be ported back over to mainline
--- Log closed Sun Mar 28 00:00:29 2010