--- Log opened Tue Mar 30 00:00:03 2010
--- Day changed Tue Mar 30 2010
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20100330 00:35:25< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41878 /website/start/1.8/ (index.de.html index.en.html po/de.po): updated German announcement translation
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20100330 00:37:57< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41879 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated German translation
20100330 00:38:01< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41880 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated German translation
20100330 00:39:08< Ivanovic> Greywhind: in general you should just drop your ideas and wait for a reply
20100330 00:39:16< Ivanovic> that is: i will be gone again in some mins, too
20100330 00:39:30< Ivanovic> but many people tend to read their backlogs to see what happened over the last hours
20100330 00:39:42< Ivanovic> so it is likely that you will get a reply "later on"
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20100330 00:41:49< Greywhind> Ivanovic: ok, thanks
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20100330 00:47:41< Greywhind> well, I'm a student, and I worked with Thousand Parsec for GSOC last year. this year, i'm interested in trying to find something to do to help out another open-source game, because open-source and games are both awesome things.
20100330 00:48:41< Greywhind> i have unfortunately been too busy with midterms and projects for school to have much time to prepare until now, so i'd be really interested to hear what are the top-priority projects for you guys this year
20100330 00:50:57< Greywhind> i was pretty interested in the alliance system or persistent storage ideas.
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20100330 00:53:45< Ivanovic> in general we don't select by "which projects do we want most" but more following the line "which student sounds like he will manage to complete his proposal and has a good idea what it is about?"
20100330 00:54:02< Ivanovic> so yes, you should go for what you really would prefer to do
20100330 00:54:36< Ivanovic> i am off to bed now, n8
20100330 00:54:41< Greywhind> thanks much
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20100330 03:16:38< endercoaster> Question for anybody who knows about GSoC: Is there any disadvantage to submitting my formal application through Google now and submitting patches later over waiting until I can list the patches on the formal application?
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20100330 03:30:25< awilkins> just thought I'd pop in and say hello
20100330 03:30:41< awilkins> prospective student for GSoC work
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20100330 04:03:47< ancestral> Hey just a FYI, Mac OS X 10.6.3 came out today
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20100330 04:11:50< Espreon> ancestral: Cool story bro.
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20100330 04:12:17< ancestral> If nothing breaks, then yes!
20100330 04:12:23< Espreon> Heh... indeed.
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20100330 04:36:14< Upthorn> hey, I have a question or someone who is well acquainted with the wesnoth source
20100330 04:37:10< Upthorn> What files and/or functions contain the meat of the wml processing?
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20100330 05:52:04< Greywhind> i have posted a proposal at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeGreywhind, and I would be glad to hear any and all feedback
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20100330 06:09:51< fabi> Upthorn, are you still around?
20100330 06:10:02< Upthorn> I am
20100330 06:10:31< fabi> You have questions about wml processing?
20100330 06:10:59< Upthorn> yeah, I've been trying to work out where the bulk of the wml processing happens in the source code
20100330 06:11:08< fabi> Have a look at the config class.
20100330 06:11:17< Upthorn> thanks, that's a big help
20100330 06:11:25< fabi> Wait, that is not all.
20100330 06:11:54< Upthorn> I just want to understand how things work so that I can work out a projected timeline for my summer of code proposal
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20100330 06:12:12< fabi> The config class represents a node and all subchilds of the wml tree.
20100330 06:12:36< fabi> vconfig is a wrapper for it that does variable substitution.
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20100330 06:13:21< fabi> The final processing of the wml tags takes place where it is needed, meaning that wml processing is spread over the whole source tree.
20100330 06:13:56< Upthorn> yeah, I thought something like that might be the case when I did a search for "wml" in all the source files
20100330 06:14:03< Upthorn> and it turned up almost everywhere
20100330 06:14:20< fabi> Most dynamic wml is called "actionWML". That is all the coding that goes into [event].
20100330 06:15:22< fabi> It is mostly processed in the game_events class.
20100330 06:16:17< fabi> You may also want to have a look at menu_events.
20100330 06:16:35< Upthorn> thanks
20100330 06:16:42 * Upthorn puts a list together
20100330 06:16:51< fabi> Upthorn: May I ask what exactly you want to do with WML?
20100330 06:17:10< Upthorn> fabi: yeah, I'm hoping to implement the world persistence idea
20100330 06:17:16< Upthorn> this summer
20100330 06:17:50< Upthorn> And so I'd like to understand how it all works so that I can make a timeline with some basis in reality.
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20100330 06:18:17< fabi> I see. I guess that you will have to deal with savegame wml a lot.
20100330 06:19:02< Upthorn> it is likely, but I also expect it to involve event WML
20100330 06:19:11< Upthorn> for stuff like achievements and unlockables
20100330 06:19:23< fabi> The main class for saving to files is gamestatus.
20100330 06:19:42< fabi> YogiHH is the developer who knows the most about that.
20100330 06:20:14< Upthorn> Thanks a ton.
20100330 06:20:31< fabi> You are welcome. Do you have any questions left?
20100330 06:21:06< Upthorn> Not yet. I'll have to look through all the things you just mentioned before I know what to ask about
20100330 06:21:45< fabi> I see. Good luck with planning your project. :-)
20100330 06:21:50< Upthorn> thanks.
20100330 06:22:56< pokhbocee> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100330 06:22:56< wesbot> pokhbocee: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 14h 29m ago.  13h 51m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
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20100330 06:56:03< pokhbocee> Crab_: I saw the methods used in data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg  and checked few others too but i couldn't find any other methods. and in scenario-lua-ai.cfg there are only move,attack,recruit,recall. where r the others??
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20100330 06:58:19< fabi> pokhbocee: What exactly are you looking for?
20100330 06:59:16< pokhbocee> Crab_: and can you suggest mi a specific function to implement. cuz i dont know which is already implemented so.. I was thinking ican implement candidadate_action_evaluation or execution( they seem to be need implementation). I think execution wont be hard. but for evaluation i need to know other methods and objects realated to the game
20100330 07:00:20< pokhbocee> fabi_: i am tryingto find out the methods that are implemented in lua. so i can use them and also implement the ones that are not implemented yet
20100330 07:00:36< pokhbocee> ups sory it had to be fabi:
20100330 07:00:45< pokhbocee> :)
20100330 07:01:00< Upthorn> fabi: I believe pokhbocee is interested in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Lua_AI
20100330 07:01:57< pokhbocee> yes but the thing is i am having trouble with the library. unfortunately we dont have a api-like document for lua ai. so i have to find out by myself
20100330 07:02:16< silene> pokhbocee: there are only move attack recruit recall because that's the only actions an ai can do (in fact, a human player can hardly much more in the game, so it's not really surprising)
20100330 07:03:01< fabi> pokhbocee: I guess that there are no more ai stuff implemented in lua since the feature that let you do so is only a few weeks old.
20100330 07:03:03< pokhbocee> files with lua extension doesnt seem to have the methods. in scebarui-lua-ai.cfg some of them r used but not all of them
20100330 07:03:56< fabi> pokhbocee: Didn't "grep" help you?
20100330 07:05:11< pokhbocee> silene: crab suggested me to implement some methods in lua which are not implemented, so i was trying to figure out that. cuz formula_ai has many methods and i ll implement the ones that r not in lua
20100330 07:05:30< silene> pokhbocee: can you give an example of such a method?
20100330 07:05:53< pokhbocee> fabi: i couldnt quite understand what u are saying?
20100330 07:06:01< pokhbocee> fabi: who is grep? i havent met him
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20100330 07:06:16< Espreon> pokhbocee: "grep" is an awesome command. ;)
20100330 07:06:37< pokhbocee> damn :D
20100330 07:06:44< pokhbocee> ahaha
20100330 07:06:47< ancestral> More specifically, regex is awesome
20100330 07:06:52< fabi> pokhbocee: "grep" is a very useful linux commandline tool. It can search in files for strings. I rely heavily on it when searching in wesnoth's source tree.
20100330 07:06:54< pokhbocee> silene: im looking for some examples
20100330 07:07:10< fabi> s/linux/unix
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20100330 07:08:54< pokhbocee> silene: but the for example to implelement evaluation method. i need to have access to game objects, to see what are there around a troop. and also there are methods already implemented such as chance of kill-die etc. but i dont know how to use them
20100330 07:10:35< pokhbocee> fabi: it seems really useful, i think i can use that. but i dont know what are the method names. actually i only need to know which ones r implemented and what r their parameters,return values
20100330 07:11:00< silene> pokhbocee: to know how to use them, read the documentation; and for accessing game objects, read the documentation; with respect to lua, the documentation is quite exhaustive, so that's really where you should start if you are looking for things
20100330 07:13:01< silene> (in fact, the documentation for luawml was so big that i hit an internal limit in the wiki software, i had to split it into several pages)
20100330 07:14:12< pokhbocee> yeah i think you are right. i was focused on figuring out the current ai, i forgot the fact many methods i need are outside the ai and within the game
20100330 07:14:29< pokhbocee> but i need lua methods
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20100330 07:14:57< pokhbocee> i think
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20100330 07:25:17< pokhbocee> i gotta go now. see u later. ty for ur help everybody
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20100330 07:28:13< endercoaster> Silly question for getting myself settled working on this... how do I go about joining the Wesnoth group on gna?
20100330 07:29:50< endercoaster> Nevermind, figured that out.
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20100330 07:51:00-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | 75 bugs, 256 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100330 08:19:33< Crab_> fabi: hello. I wanted to ask you about the pathfind branch..
20100330 08:20:15< Crab_> you told me yesterday that it needed merge, but I see r40927
20100330 08:20:16< Crab_> wesbot: log 40927
20100330 08:20:16< wesbot> fendrin * r40927 : Since the code has been merged into trunk the pathfind branch is removed.
20100330 08:20:20< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=40927
20100330 08:20:34< Crab_> fabi: what I've misunderstood ?
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20100330 08:24:59< Crab_> pokhbocee: engine support for candidate action evaluation/execution was already implemented by Darkas (patch 1558). If you're looking for lua functions to implement, I suggest trying to write an ai / ai extension  and seeing what is missing. or, you can check the list http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaAI#Exposing_game_state or check the current formula ai functions - some of them cannot be yet replicated in lua code.
20100330 08:25:32< fabi> Crab_, Hello
20100330 08:25:50< fabi> You did misunderstand something?
20100330 08:27:05< Crab_> fabi: yes, about the pathfind branch - what do I need to merge, the branch seems removed from current tree with the comment 'merged into the trunk'
20100330 08:27:10< Crab_> (r40927)
20100330 08:27:31< fabi> Crab_ : Oh, I see. The pathfind branch was merged into trunk but guarded by the "experimental" flag. That flag has removed again. It's the editor branch that holds the pathfinding code now.
20100330 08:27:58< Crab_> fabi: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/branches/fendrin_editor/ ?
20100330 08:28:00< fabi> Crab_, Would it be possible for you to merge only the pathfind related changes into trunk?
20100330 08:28:17< fabi> Yes, that is the right location.
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20100330 08:29:13< Crab_> fabi: yes, I can try, but It'll be somewhat harder.
20100330 08:29:24< Crab_> (today's evening, then)
20100330 08:29:50< fabi> Crab_: Sorry, I would have done it better if I had foreseen the things that happened.
20100330 08:30:12< fabi> zookeeper, do you have a little time now I wanted to talk to you.
20100330 08:30:15< fabi> ?
20100330 08:30:23< Crab_> fabi: well, it's both too early and too late to say sorry, so don't worry :)
20100330 08:31:01< fabi> Crab_: I will be around this evening to some degree so you can call me and yell at me if needed ;-)
20100330 08:31:19< zookeeper> fabi, sure
20100330 08:32:30< Crab_> ;-)
20100330 08:32:39< fabi> zookeeper: I have implemented a new recall/recruit dialog together with a action wml tag called [unit_input] that makes the dialogs accessible through wml.
20100330 08:33:32< fabi> zookeeper: I believe it was Sapient who suggested to move the whole recruit/recall code from c++ to wml. 
20100330 08:33:50< fabi> zookeeper: Do you see that this is possible?
20100330 08:34:19< zookeeper> i don't quite grasp what that would mean in practise
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20100330 08:35:05< zookeeper> i mean, the whole recruit/recall code to WML? how would that work?
20100330 08:36:58< zookeeper> that sounds like a suggestion to turn recruit and recall into [set_menu_item]s
20100330 08:37:08< fabi> right
20100330 08:37:46< zookeeper> ok. well, my first thought would be "huge can of worms"
20100330 08:37:48< gabba> What's the best way to store images to post on my wiki proposal? Crab_ suggested I post them in the off-topic forum, but I can't add attachments to topics I create there.
20100330 08:38:04< zookeeper> but that should also be pretty quick to write so we could try it out and see how it'd work
20100330 08:38:25< fabi> I see the need to enhance [set_menu_item] by a method that binds keyboard keys to the menu entry. But the rest of it should work out of the box.
20100330 08:38:28< Crab_> gabba: ask shadowmaster, maybe there's some forum setting he can turn on for you, or maybe he'll suggest another place
20100330 08:38:38< gabba> Crab_: ok, thanks
20100330 08:38:48< fabi> It may be difficult to find the right free hexes in the castle. 
20100330 08:38:50< Crab_> gabba: or ping me in +13h to +17h
20100330 08:39:08< gabba> shadowmaster: ^^
20100330 08:39:45< zookeeper> fabi, no, we'd need extra engine support too, otherwise undo would be invalidated (at least in MP) whenever you open the dialogs. and yes, finding out whether the target castle hex is connected to the leader via castles would be somewhat impossible atm.
20100330 08:39:59< fabi> zookeeper: The creation of the unit itself would also be done by [recall] or [unit]. That will delete many lines of ugly c++ code.
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20100330 08:40:31< Crab_> fabi: hmmm.. but the [unit] tag will still call that ugly c++ code, isn't it ?
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20100330 08:40:53< fabi> Crab_, Yes, but uses different codepathes right now.
20100330 08:41:19< Crab_> yes, and this is a different problem, and we can refactor this :)
20100330 08:41:30< Crab_> 'single codepath to rule them all', and all that :)
20100330 08:41:40< fabi> :-)
20100330 08:42:43< zookeeper> fabi, well, i don't mind the idea as long as all current functionality is retained
20100330 08:43:11< fabi> zookeeper: I thought filtering for a leader that is on a keep and filtering for free adjacent hexes that are castle tiles would already be doable.
20100330 08:43:24< Crab_> zookeeper: one of the potential plans is to get rid of undo, replacing it with a different thing (see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba )
20100330 08:43:26< zookeeper> but you'll indeed need some code tweaks to allow it to be done, and at least the undoability thing would not be trivial AFAIK. sapient would know.
20100330 08:43:31< Crab_> fabi: do it in LuaWML
20100330 08:43:54< zookeeper> fabi, yes, it is
20100330 08:44:18< zookeeper> but you don't only recruit on hexes adjacent to your leader
20100330 08:44:24< zookeeper> s/on/onto
20100330 08:45:23< Crab_> fabi: e.g., expose basic 'find all connecting locations matching criteria' code to lua, (to avoid code duplication), and then do the rest in lua. or, even simpler idea, extend SLF to have that.
20100330 08:45:41< fabi> There is a recursive flooding implementation in UtBS that floods shallow water into deep water following the terrain. I thought that could be very similar to the code needed for the recruiting.
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20100330 08:46:19< zookeeper> hmmh
20100330 08:46:31< zookeeper> ok, maybe [filter_radius] can do it
20100330 08:47:27< zookeeper> but you'd still have to hardcode a terrain string limitation, that is only castle terrains starting with C and keep terrains starting with K would work
20100330 08:47:43< zookeeper> maybe not a big issue, but still
20100330 08:48:09< fabi> There is no filter for terrain with canrecurit_on=true?
20100330 08:48:31< zookeeper> correct
20100330 08:48:44< silene> you should really use lua for that
20100330 08:49:06< fabi> recruit_onto is the attribute
20100330 08:49:37< gabba> Crab_: I'm going to attach them to the thread I started previously about the same idea: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29102 , is that ok?
20100330 08:49:49< gabba> Crab_: This way people can follow my progress a bit, too
20100330 08:49:54< fabi> silene: Do you volunteer with the lua aspects of the project? zookeeper: Would you take care of the WML parts? I will do the c++ coding that is left to do.
20100330 08:49:55< Crab_> gabba: ok for me
20100330 08:50:26< gabba> Crab_: If shadowmaster doesn't like the idea I'll move them elsewhere
20100330 08:50:39< silene> fabi: i still don't understand what you want to do; sure i can write a lua function that finds a vacant castle tile; but what is it useful for?
20100330 08:51:02< zookeeper> fabi, i guess i could do that...shouldn't be much to write, assuming i won't stumble into some problem i don't yet see
20100330 08:54:29< fabi> silene: recruit/recall will be implemented through wml and the new [unit_input] tag I wrote together with the new recall/recruit dialogs I implemented in gui2.
20100330 08:54:48< silene> fabi: what does "implemented through wml" means?
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20100330 08:56:09< fabi> silene: The menu entries will be done by [set_menu_items] this will call the [unit_input] tag. The recalling or recruiting will be coded with the [recall] and [unit] tags.
20100330 08:56:29< fabi> Every other c++ code paths are going to be eliminated.
20100330 08:57:10< endercoaster> having some trouble with what I've compiled from source. Mouse clicks aren't being detected.
20100330 08:57:18< endercoaster> (haven't changed anything)
20100330 08:57:37< fabi> endercoaster: That is a libsdl bug. You may need to downgrade it.
20100330 08:57:41< Crab_> gabba: nice pictures :)
20100330 08:58:01< gabba> Heh, thanks :)
20100330 08:58:18< silene> fabi: i doubt you will eliminate any c++ code paths
20100330 08:58:35< fabi> No?
20100330 09:00:08< fabi> silene: Why not?
20100330 09:01:12< silene> fabi: because you will either need all the current code and or reimplement it anew; can you give me even one example of c++ code that will just disappear?
20100330 09:01:45< fabi> Everything recall recruit related in menu_events at least.
20100330 09:02:20< fabi> The code that looks for free castle tiles.
20100330 09:02:23< gabba> Crab_: gah, I can't seem to find a way to link to them from the wiki though -- I think mediawiki looks for an url that ends with .png, otherwise it treats the link as normal
20100330 09:02:38< silene> fabi: how many lines of code do you think that is?! compare it to the amount of code that will be needed for your feature!
20100330 09:02:45< Crab_> gabba: hmm... I'll try
20100330 09:03:20< Crab_> gabba: I can patch/tweak mediawiki, if there's some tunable restriction in there
20100330 09:03:49< zookeeper> fabi, this might work for the location filtering part: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/RNKXTuW1 i can't test it right now myself.
20100330 09:04:01< fabi> silene: Well, what code is missing beside the lua that looks for free castle tiles?
20100330 09:04:10< gabba> Crab_: I managed to link directly to the Clanlib image, so external image links are allowed, at least
20100330 09:04:39< silene> fabi: everything? code for handling replays, network, ais, and so on
20100330 09:05:02< gabba> Crab_: haha, the idiocy. Look at what works perfectly as a workaround: http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?mode=view&id=39499#.png
20100330 09:05:25< gabba> Crab_: just need to paste it in the text without any special tag
20100330 09:06:29< fabi> silene: replay can handle the [unit] and [recall] tags. I don't see the need to change anything on the network. The ai will be able to use [unit] and [recall] easily, isn't that true Crab_ ? 
20100330 09:07:17< Crab_> gabba: yes, done the same thing :)
20100330 09:07:20< silene> fabi: what are you thinking? the ai is not allowed to call wml action handlers!
20100330 09:07:45< Crab_> fabi: there are network sync issues we need to solve
20100330 09:08:20< fabi> Yes, but it can call the code behind the action handlers. 
20100330 09:08:21< Crab_> fabi: you can call wml action handler from the ai, but unless it has no side effects on gamestate on unless you add code to write it to replay, you'll get problems
20100330 09:09:35< fabi> Crab_: Is that a major problem that needs critical changes to the ai?
20100330 09:10:41< Crab_> fabi: no, it doesn't need big changes to the ai
20100330 09:10:41< zookeeper> so are those c++ code paths somehow particularly ugly?
20100330 09:10:49< silene> fabi: no it needs critical changes to the network and the replay code; to give you an idea, it's the same work as if you wanted to make the :debug command work over the network and in the replyas
20100330 09:10:51< fabi> zookeeper: Thank you.
20100330 09:10:54< Crab_> fabi: if you make it work for human, the ai would be able to do it, too.
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20100330 09:11:09< silene> zookeeper: why do you think we have oos?
20100330 09:11:34< zookeeper> silene, no idea frankly :)
20100330 09:11:44< Crab_> fabi: basically, you'll add something like 'handle_rightclick_menu_item' (under a more sane name) action to the ai.
20100330 09:12:10< Crab_> fabi: then, if your right-click thing works in MP for humans, it'll work for the ai, too.
20100330 09:12:46< fabi> zookeeper: There is a code path for recalling/recruiting and another one for the [recall] [unit] tag. The code double code paths makes it ugly alone. I do consider that code a little hacky as well but that may be a matter of taste.
20100330 09:13:14< silene> Crab_: it's a bit more complicated, since you don't want handle_rightclick_menu_item to open the recruit dialog
20100330 09:13:28< zookeeper> fabi, so why can't or shouldn't that be fixed inside the engine?
20100330 09:14:22< zookeeper> because of gabba's idea or for some other reason?
20100330 09:15:10< Crab_> silene: well, actually, thinking long-term, we want it opened, but not as for the human (as the gui dialog), but for the ai (e.g. 'call a ai-defined lua callback which'll get the list of units which we can recruit/recall and make a choice')
20100330 09:15:12< fabi> Well, the whole idea of having the recall/recruit thing implemented in wml was the idea of sapient or mordante, I don't remember correctly. He considered it a good idea.
20100330 09:16:20< silene> Crab_: yes, that's why i'm saying this whole thing is no small work
20100330 09:16:26< fabi> It would open new worlds to wml designers. I could think of a warlords like producing in villages system that makes use of the new dialogs for example.
20100330 09:16:59< Crab_> yes. but, in order to 'teach' the ai to play in a lot of UMC scenarios which requires handling dialogs, we need to do it, eventually.
20100330 09:17:04< zookeeper> fabi, how could that not be done already?
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20100330 09:17:16< zookeeper> with [unit_input] tag, that is
20100330 09:17:20< zookeeper> +the
20100330 09:17:49< fabi> I don't stick to the idea, just wanted to satisfy other developer's needs and thoughts not only targeting for my own.
20100330 09:17:56< Crab_> e.g., to make it possible to 'teach the ai to play in a new land' we need to add a way for the ai to make those upgrade/research/etc selections.
20100330 09:18:54< fabi> zookeeper: Yes it could be done already using the new [unit_input] dialog. It just means that I need another codepath for that behind them.
20100330 09:19:18< fabi> That would be the third doing mostly the same thing.
20100330 09:20:50< silene> Crab_: i'm not against the ai being able to "click" on the user interface; what i'm saying is that it is a mandatory precondition for handling recruiting through wml and that it is a huge amount of work
20100330 09:21:07< silene> Crab_: can wa et least agree on that?
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20100330 09:22:28< Crab_> silene: yes,  I agree.
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20100330 09:24:44< fabi> I will investigate the issue when commiting the new features. At that point I will gain a better understanding of what is needed to do that stuff. If it is too complicated to do I don't have any problems to drop the project since it would only bee a side effect of my original work.
20100330 09:26:20< Crab_> fabi: meanwhile, take a look at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#A_little_use_case - some cool pictures in there :)
20100330 09:27:59< gabba> Is Wesnoth Whiteboard a good title for this project? Noy gave me doubts, it made him think of drawing on the map :P
20100330 09:28:13< fabi> Crab_: I will do that this evening. Need to fetch some sleep now.
20100330 09:28:48< Crab_> gabba: well, 'good for me' :)
20100330 09:28:52< Crab_> fabi: ok
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20100330 09:29:31< gabba> I'll run a poll :) -- thing is, I'm a bit too lazy to change the page *again*
20100330 09:30:42< Crab_> gabba: note that your top picture is somewhat illegal :)
20100330 09:30:57< Crab_> gabba: it displays an illegal move for the archer
20100330 09:31:06< Crab_> gabba: since orcish assasin has ZoC :)
20100330 09:31:49< gabba> Yes, um, it's a "sneaky" orcish assassin and the archer is gonna get ambushed, c.f. the little story :)
20100330 09:32:02< Crab_> gabba: ok ;)
20100330 09:33:37< Crab_> gabba: but it opens the road to some misunderstanding - e.g., afair, assasins are not invisible, so that move ought to be a conflict right now :)
20100330 09:34:52< gabba> Yes, they can't ambush either. I wrote the story and made the image while being sure that assassins have the same property as elvish rangers, but discovered afterwards it's not so.
20100330 09:35:02< Crab_> gabba: if you want, you can see which units have ambush at  http://units.wesnoth.org/1.8/C/mainline.html
20100330 09:35:19< Crab_> gabba: or mark it clearly in the text that the assasin is 'invisible' atm.
20100330 09:35:28< gabba> I think I'll take the assassin out of the picture, that'll save people some confusion
20100330 09:35:40< gabba> Too bad, I liked the little guy ;)
20100330 09:36:13< Crab_> gabba: also, a question - how you'll handle the situation where multiple units move along the same route?
20100330 09:36:29< Crab_> (to different destinations, but sharing some part of move)
20100330 09:37:24< Crab_> e.g. two archers stand near the bridge. then, they move across the same bridge, to another forest, one moves left after the bridge, one moves right - how to find out which moved where ?
20100330 09:37:49< Crab_> (maybe just 'highlight move by currently selected/highlighted unit' is enough )
20100330 09:37:51< gabba> I thought of either: 1- overlapping the path, but highlighting the correct path when you hover on any part that belongs to a single unit, or on the unit itself
20100330 09:38:17< Crab_> looks good
20100330 09:38:31< silene> gabba: nice proposal, but i'm not sure how you handle ordering (i only glanced at the proposal so i may just have missed it)
20100330 09:38:39< gabba> or 2- display the paths side by side, making them thinner (fits less with wesnoth graphical style IMO
20100330 09:39:56< gabba> silene: engine-side, by keeping planned moves in a vector; interface side, last order given is the first one to be executed, and then the second most recent, and so on
20100330 09:40:29< gabba> silene: but the player may need some way of reordering his moves
20100330 09:40:30< silene> gabba: (i meant interface side) you mean they are played backward?
20100330 09:41:24< gabba> silene: wait, no I meant the contrary :P
20100330 09:41:43< gabba> silene: confused myself here for a moment, let me try that again:
20100330 09:42:15< gabba> So, last order given is first to be executed, as would make sense
20100330 09:42:45< gabba> silene: and I'm still studying the minimum interface to allow the player to reorder moves
20100330 09:43:42< silene> i'm not sure to see why moving the units in the reverse order than the player did makes sense, but i may be missing something
20100330 09:44:14< silene> anyway, there definitely needs some visual indication as to which move will happen first
20100330 09:45:18< gabba> silene: lol, I think I need some sleep, since everytime I try to write this damn idea it comes out backwards
20100330 09:45:36< gabba> silene: my english doesn't work at such a late hour
20100330 09:46:27< gabba> silene: so, third try: the moves are played in the same order the player defined them. basta.
20100330 09:47:38< gabba> silene: and I think a small number next to each unit that has a planned move would help spotting who will move first, yes
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20100330 10:12:23< mordante> servus
20100330 10:12:46< Crab_> hi, mordante
20100330 10:12:52< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20100330 10:16:55< mordante> gabba, another reason for the sprite-sheets is that our artists like to work with them
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20100330 10:38:19< gabba> Updated to fix confusion and visibly number the planned moves: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#A_little_use_case
20100330 10:38:24< gabba> mordante: hmm
20100330 10:38:34< gabba> mordante: yes, I know
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20100330 10:39:02< gabba> mordante: Jetrel does at least
20100330 10:41:30< gabba> mordante: but the GSoC is not necessary to help them do that
20100330 10:42:00< gabba> mordante: sprite sheets are easily built by hand (for new units)
20100330 10:43:12< gabba> mordante: and to put all frames from an existing animation on a sheet (uniformly spaced, not "optimized"), there are existing tools such as imagemagick command montage
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20100330 10:44:32< gabba> mordante:  and when writing the animation WML, the ~CROP function already allows to use part of an image instead of a sprite
20100330 10:44:53< gabba> mordante: So I don't really see how GSoC students can help here...
20100330 10:45:31< mordante> gabba, just to mention another reason why we want sprite-sheets
20100330 10:45:34< gabba> mordante: If you have specific concrete ideas on how to help artists working with sprite sheets, please let me know
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20100330 10:46:08< mordante> gabba, and the student should discuss with Jetrel and Co. how to implement the sheets for new units
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20100330 10:46:40< gabba> mordante: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29311
20100330 10:46:41< mordante> gabba, and of course it would be great if the old units could be converted easily, but I see that as secondary targets
20100330 10:47:19< mordante> ah ok, I don't follow the forum too closely
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20100330 10:47:43< gabba> mordante: and artists don't follow IRC too closely ;)
20100330 10:47:56< mordante> true
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20100330 10:48:51< gabba> mordante: well in short, I consider artists working with sprite sheets, and sprite sheets used as a mean to save disk and memory two very separate issues
20100330 10:49:48< mordante> uhm they are not, if the artists aren't happy with the usage of the sprite-sheets they won't use them
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20100330 10:50:44< gabba> mordante: You can use "artist sprite sheets" (e.g. human-friendly) as input to my planned tool, and "optimized sprite sheets" (e.g. ugly but very space-efficient) as output
20100330 10:50:57< gabba> mordante: and they'll live together happily ever after
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20100330 10:51:52< gabba> mordante: I tried to explain all that in my proposal, but it's probably not clear enough yet?
20100330 10:52:08< mordante> ok in that case it would also work
20100330 10:52:23< mordante> I haven't read the proposal yet, can do so in a few minutes
20100330 10:53:37< zookeeper> gabba, i'll try to list some of my thoughts on spritesheets now...
20100330 10:54:09< gabba> zookeeper: ok, but I'm going to sleep soon
20100330 10:54:29< zookeeper> 1) i think we should definitely not have a human-friendly and optimized version of the same sheet floating around
20100330 10:54:48< zookeeper> that is, we should just have the human-friendly ones even though that doesn't result in as much savings
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20100330 10:55:58< gabba> For me, 1) is kind of saying we shouldn't have code in source and compiled form... but, proceed
20100330 10:56:52< zookeeper> 2) there should be a way to refer to the sprites in sheets from WML without any x,y coordinates. that is, if i have all the dragoon's frames in dragoon.png, then should be able to write something like dragoon.png~SHEET(3) to pick the third frame from the sheet. or ~SHEET(3,2) to pick the third one from the second row, or something to that effect.
20100330 10:57:26< zookeeper> yes, you have to create extra limitations to allow something like that, but i don't think they would need to be unreasonable
20100330 10:57:39< mordante> gabba, are you aware that images can also be "hidden" inside macros?
20100330 10:57:42< zookeeper> s/x,y coordinates/x,y pixel coordinates
20100330 10:58:08< zookeeper> those are basically my two notable opinions on the matter
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20100330 10:58:49< gabba> mordante: you mean the file path is impossible to recognize by simple scanning of the file, you have to do macro expansion first?
20100330 10:59:03< zookeeper> gabba, i don't care that much for memory usage, i see the convenience for artists to be much more important. and i think if you had one sheet per unit that'd still bring major savings.
20100330 11:00:20< mordante> gabba, exactly
20100330 11:00:49< gabba> mordante: more fun in perspective
20100330 11:01:50< gabba> zookeeper: well, you devs should all get in a private chatroom and agree among each other on this
20100330 11:01:59< zookeeper> yeah ;)
20100330 11:02:12< gabba> zookeeper: as for what you're asking, I can do it as a GSoC project,
20100330 11:02:25< gabba> zookeeper: only, I'll be finished after one week :P
20100330 11:04:00< gabba> zookeeper: actually, here's the offer: wesnoth accepts my proposal at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba , and I'll do the spritesheets adjustments you're asking, and a nice little frontend to imagemagick
20100330 11:04:10< gabba> Two for the price of one!!!!
20100330 11:04:22< gabba> :D
20100330 11:05:10< zookeeper> :P sounds good, but i'm afraid that's not my call to make ;)
20100330 11:05:14< mordante> gabba, I see more tricky things, with high changes of breakage
20100330 11:05:27< gabba> well, just kidding
20100330 11:05:58< gabba> mordante: you mean, in my proposal or in what zookeeper is asking for?
20100330 11:06:14< mordante> gabba, "mordante: more fun in perspective"
20100330 11:06:35< gabba> mordante: yes, the ironical kind of fun
20100330 11:06:59< mordante> we don't want to sit in a private room and discuss we like the one implementing it in the discussion
20100330 11:07:31< gabba> mordante: can you point me to an example of this evil path generating macros?
20100330 11:07:32< mordante> if we sit in a private room we can determine entirely how it should look and you can be a code monkey coding what we decided
20100330 11:07:52< mordante> and being a code monkey is not what GSoC is about ;-)
20100330 11:08:13< gabba> mordante: well, for most ideas there seems to be a base consensus among devs that the idea is a good thing
20100330 11:08:26< gabba> mordante: but not at all for sprite sheets
20100330 11:08:46< zookeeper> gabba, btw, jetrel is usually online just not on this channel, so if you need to talk to him on irc, you usually can
20100330 11:09:12< mordante> data/gui/default/widget/horizontal_scrollbar_default.cfg has minor evil inside
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20100330 11:09:38< gabba> zookeeper: I saw him from time to time, but he participated a lot to the thread I started, so that should be sufficient for now
20100330 11:10:00< mordante> gabba, the sprite-sheets is also a good idea only we're not sure how to implement it 
20100330 11:10:02< Ivanovic> moin
20100330 11:10:08< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20100330 11:10:14< gabba> morning Ivanovic
20100330 11:12:08< gabba> mordante: my evil detector is beeping: "buttons/scrollgroove{IMAGE_MIDDLE}-horizontal.png"
20100330 11:14:24< mordante> gabba, yes and that's not uncommon in usage
20100330 11:14:56< gabba> mordante: well, if this is used to change only image names and not their extensions (shudder) and *not* directory names, I could systematically treat those macros as wilcards, i.e. as '*' in a regexp -- at least that would allow me to build the image list
20100330 11:15:47< gabba> mordante: adding ~CROP after those would not pose a problem...
20100330 11:16:05< gabba> mordante: but I guess there are more complicated cases than these
20100330 11:16:49< CIA-64> mordante * r41881 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add helper classes to improve callback handling.
20100330 11:16:57< CIA-64> mordante * r41882 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (scrollbar.cpp scrollbar.hpp): Add the new helpers to the scrollbar.
20100330 11:16:59< CIA-64> mordante * r41883 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (editor_resize_map.cpp editor_resize_map.hpp): Use the new callbacks.
20100330 11:18:28< gabba> mordante: anyways yeah, even if I can detect the images, rewriting the line with a macro while making sure it gets found in the sprite sheet could be very baffling
20100330 11:20:41< mordante> gabba, probably there are more complicated cases like data/core/macros/items.cfg has parts where the image is a macro parameter
20100330 11:24:48< gabba> mordante: So, possible solutions:
20100330 11:25:45< gabba> mordante: 1- Do macro expansion, if it's possible (I don't know much about it, is it done at a specific moment or anytime during the life of the program)
20100330 11:26:30< gabba> mordante: 2- Renounce to put those images that use macros on sprite sheets (don't know how many we'd leave aside this way)
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20100330 11:29:19< gabba> mordante: 3- Introduce a "man-in-the-middle", that receives image paths and indicates where the real image lies -- then extra WML tags or new "imageInfo" files would be needed, something I wanted to avoid. 
20100330 11:30:21< gabba> I'm going to sleep now anyways, night all.
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20100330 12:19:24< fakedrake> Crab_: r u there?
20100330 12:20:00< Crab_> yes
20100330 12:20:27< fakedrake> gud morning
20100330 12:20:36< Crab_> :)
20100330 12:20:41< fakedrake> about the soc protposal
20100330 12:20:55< fakedrake> i can make more than one right
20100330 12:21:02< fakedrake> ?
20100330 12:21:40< fakedrake> actually i had in ming throwing a proposal about the migration to openGL
20100330 12:22:20< Crab_> yes, you can make more than one proposal
20100330 12:23:22< fakedrake> but i would also like to work with this one http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Anil_Verma
20100330 12:23:33< Crab_> you should, however, note, that 'migration to openGL' wasn't offered as a GSoC project because (afair) the devs thought that it was too hard for a GSoC. so, you'd have to convince us that your proposal is doable.
20100330 12:25:40< fakedrake> as i had it in mind, it was more of a start of the migration than the migration itself
20100330 12:26:08< Crab_> well, the GSoC should have concrete and definite result(s)
20100330 12:26:20< fakedrake> ok
20100330 12:26:23< Crab_> you're welcome to speak about it with the other devs, of course
20100330 12:27:18< Ivanovic> most likely it is possible to get some result with a "start the opengl port", though defining a good target is probably difficult
20100330 12:27:18< mordante> I agree with Crab_ 
20100330 12:27:51< Ivanovic> that is: i remember that we had one student last year whom we told *often* to reduce his ambitious project
20100330 12:27:59< fakedrake> another thing i would like to propose, wich is however a bit too easy (at a first glace at least) for gsoc is the support for narative speech on dialogs
20100330 12:28:15< Ivanovic> in the end this student labeled tiny fractions of it as "optional" and those were, IIRC those things he completed first
20100330 12:28:27< Ivanovic> yes, he was accepted and you know him under the nick Crab_
20100330 12:28:30< mordante> Ivanovic, we had that more than once, but those projects were usable half done, OGL IMO not 
20100330 12:28:45< Crab_> Ivanovic: :)
20100330 12:29:15< Ivanovic> fakedrake: in general to get in with a very ambitious project *is* possible and just see our words as a reminder to be cautious
20100330 12:29:36< Ivanovic> it is easy to get into things over your head and you should not underestimate the workload connected with the projects
20100330 12:29:54< Ivanovic> when we made those proposals it was mainly a matter of "what do we think possible in this time"
20100330 12:30:26< Ivanovic> in general our idea was "okay, those projects should not require much more than one full time month from a core dev who already does know the respective part of the codebase"
20100330 12:30:33< mordante> fakedrake, the other problem I see with OGL is that most Wesnoth developers know little about it, so it's hard to guide you on the proper path
20100330 12:31:14< fakedrake> yes you have a point..
20100330 12:31:45< Ivanovic> since students tend to not know our codebase this well, the project will take them a little longer, since there is a fixed timeframe and projects tend to get delayed we added some additional time and think that the 2.5 month (or what was the exact time you have in gsoc?) should be doable for those we proposed
20100330 12:31:49< fakedrake> ok i wil throw another proposal then and we can talk about the ogl thing in the future
20100330 12:32:27< Ivanovic> though if you show us that you know ogl already really well and have a good understanding of how our engine works, it might be possible to convince us that you are the right student for such an ambitious project
20100330 12:33:17< Ivanovic> though like mordante already said, we don't know ogl really good ourself, so we might not always be able to mentor perfectly when questions regarding "how can i make this work" come up
20100330 12:34:04< fakedrake> i can do some nice stuff with ogl but im no expert, i have spent quite soem time studying parts of the code of wesnoth but again i am no expert(i thin k am pretty far from that at the moment) 
20100330 12:34:13< fakedrake> so i will leave that idea on hold
20100330 12:34:35< Ivanovic> knowing all of the wesnoth code is probably not possible for normal human beings
20100330 12:34:58< fakedrake> thet is ecouraging
20100330 12:35:08< Ivanovic> that is one of the reasons why several people will be involved regarding "how does it currently work"
20100330 12:35:28< fakedrake> ok
20100330 12:35:34< mordante> afk now
20100330 12:35:39< fakedrake> about the other proposal
20100330 12:35:47< Ivanovic> eg boucman knows the animation stuff and some of the terrain layering, mordante knows the gui and some more (different) terrain stuff and so on
20100330 12:36:26< fakedrake> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Anil_Verma
20100330 12:36:29< fakedrake> this one
20100330 12:36:45< fakedrake> any comments?
20100330 12:37:54< Ivanovic> uhm, there is not really much so far...
20100330 12:37:55< Ivanovic> ;)
20100330 12:38:14< fakedrake> ok i will give my proposal there
20100330 12:38:42< fakedrake> and if i find something else interesting later as i look into wesnoth
20100330 12:38:55< fakedrake> ill throw another one
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20100330 12:42:42< fakedrake> i was also thinking about the debugging support
20100330 12:42:55< fakedrake> but there are no other paticipants there
20100330 12:43:11< Ivanovic> and?
20100330 12:43:18< fakedrake> i will be cooperating with other devs right?
20100330 12:43:25< Ivanovic> does this really matter if no other students so far proposed it as their projects?
20100330 12:43:37< Ivanovic> you are working on the project by yourself
20100330 12:43:51< Ivanovic> that is: you will talk with us other developers about things, can ask questions and the likes
20100330 12:44:09< Ivanovic> but in general it is "one project, one student"
20100330 12:44:24< fakedrake> so in the spritesheet ide for example
20100330 12:44:32< fakedrake> there are 4 students there
20100330 12:44:50< Ivanovic> and we most likely can only accept up to one student for the idea
20100330 12:45:33< fakedrake> oh ok
20100330 12:45:39< fakedrake> i will propose to that
20100330 12:45:54< Ivanovic> ("up to one" as in "if there are other, more interesting/promising projects/students we might not select one with a spritesheet idea")
20100330 12:46:20< Ivanovic> that is we can only accept up to three or four students this year, we don't have higher capacities
20100330 12:46:44< Ivanovic> and as you see in the list, there are by far more ideas that just three or four, so we will *not* select one project per "idea area"
20100330 12:47:47< fakedrake> just 3 or four
20100330 12:47:51< fakedrake> ok
20100330 12:47:54< Ivanovic> exactly
20100330 12:48:00< fakedrake> ill do what i can
20100330 12:55:55< fakedrake> i am a bit of a noob with wiki pages
20100330 12:56:00< fakedrake> how do i post one?
20100330 12:56:13< Ivanovic> 1) create an account in the wiki
20100330 12:56:20< Ivanovic> 2) login into this account
20100330 12:56:27< Ivanovic> 3) type an url in your bar
20100330 12:57:04< Ivanovic> if the page does not exist yet, you will get a "this page does not exist yet, do you want to search for the title or create the page?" text including relevant links
20100330 12:57:28< fakedrake> ok thnx
20100330 12:58:11< Ivanovic> eg use this link: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerofCode_Proposal_fakedrake
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20100330 13:20:36< fakedrake> i fugure i shouls start with this
20100330 13:20:41< fakedrake> [[:Category:WML_Debugging_Support]]
20100330 13:20:42< fakedrake> {{SoC2010Student}}
20100330 13:20:46< fakedrake> right?
20100330 13:23:51< Ivanovic> you should start by copying over the content of http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=A_SoC_Template_of_Student_Page&action=edit
20100330 13:24:00< Ivanovic> so yeah, basically your page starts with this:
20100330 13:24:07< Ivanovic> [[Category:WML_Debugging_Support]]
20100330 13:24:10< Ivanovic> {{SoC2010Student}}
20100330 13:24:17< fakedrake> yeah
20100330 13:24:24< fakedrake> i think i fucked it up
20100330 13:24:34< Ivanovic> but after this make sure that you got the =Description= and =IRC= entries
20100330 13:24:55< fakedrake> sorry
20100330 13:25:08< fakedrake> it got at the end of the main page
20100330 13:25:11< fakedrake> :(
20100330 13:25:23< fakedrake> See GSoC-WMLDebugingSupport fakedrake for more information.
20100330 13:25:28< fakedrake> damn
20100330 13:25:31< fakedrake> sorry
20100330 13:26:09< Ivanovic> ?
20100330 13:26:39< Ivanovic> [[:Category:WML_Debugging_Support]] is wrong
20100330 13:26:41< fakedrake> i also cant seem to be able to edit it anymore
20100330 13:26:47< Ivanovic> the colon at the beginning: remove it
20100330 13:26:55< fakedrake> i know i submited it by mistake
20100330 13:27:08< Ivanovic> 2) don't use <h*> blocks for headers and the likes
20100330 13:27:23< Ivanovic> use wiki syntax which is using ==Context of H2== 
20100330 13:28:00< Ivanovic> make sure to include =Description=, =IRC= and =Questionnaire=
20100330 13:28:17< fakedrake> ok
20100330 13:28:27< fakedrake> can u fix the template and category?
20100330 13:28:33< fakedrake> it doesnt let me edit it
20100330 13:28:34< Ivanovic> ehm, it is a wiki
20100330 13:28:37< Ivanovic> you can edit it!
20100330 13:28:50< Ivanovic> do not attempt to edit the gsoc ideas page!
20100330 13:28:55< Ivanovic> just edit your page
20100330 13:29:06< Ivanovic> the rest is auto generated with some black magic!
20100330 13:29:36< fakedrake> it had loaded half the page
20100330 13:29:40< fakedrake> for some rason
20100330 13:30:02< Ivanovic> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=GSoC-WMLDebugingSupport_fakedrake&action=edit
20100330 13:30:05< fakedrake> tnx alot
20100330 13:30:07< Ivanovic> works for me
20100330 13:31:48< fakedrake> ok
20100330 13:32:18< fakedrake> ill change the html to wiki code after lunch
20100330 13:32:21< fakedrake> cya later
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20100330 13:50:09< fakedrake> back
20100330 13:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | 74 bugs, 256 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100330 14:01:55< Crab__> fakedrake: I've edited your wiki page a bit, to make sure that your page appears in correct place of the ideas page.
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20100330 14:06:00< Crab__> Ivanovic: actually, <h4> in =Description= should stay <h4>, and the rest are irrelevent.
20100330 14:06:38< Crab__> *irrelevant
20100330 14:07:59< fakedrake> so should i leave it as is?
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20100330 14:11:10< Crab__> fakedrake: concentrate on your proposal, yes. don't worry about those little things like markup
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20100330 14:11:40< Crab__> fakedrake: actually ,if you use == instead of <hX>, it'll let you edit your page by-section, and this might be an advantage.
20100330 14:12:10< Crab__> fakedrake: but, mostly, nothing specific that must be done except from =IRC= and =Description= sections which are easily gotten if you copypaste from template page
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20100330 14:16:55< fakedrake_> ok i did the wiki code
20100330 14:17:10< fakedrake_> (kate did it actually)
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20100330 14:28:09< fakedrake_> is tha class documentation on the wesnoth site up to date?
20100330 14:45:25< Ivanovic> devdocs.wesnoth.org ?
20100330 14:45:35< Ivanovic> probably yes, not 100% sure though
20100330 14:45:52< Ivanovic>  Generated by doxygen  1.5.6 on 30 Mar 2010 for The Battle for Wesnoth 
20100330 14:45:57< Ivanovic> sounds up to date to me
20100330 14:45:59< Ivanovic> ;)
20100330 15:02:48< fakedrake_> hmm
20100330 15:03:21< fakedrake_> oh ok
20100330 15:03:27< fakedrake_> stupid me
20100330 15:03:33< fakedrake_> wrong directory
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20100330 15:51:33< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41884 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Japanese translation
20100330 15:51:40< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41885 /branches/1.8/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Japanese translation
20100330 15:55:24-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.6.249] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 15:56:00< timotei21> hello
20100330 15:56:44< fabi> hi timotei21 
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20100330 16:44:10< timotei21> hey crab_
20100330 16:44:14< timotei21> are you online
20100330 16:44:15< timotei21> ?
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20100330 16:51:54< heltonduarte> could someone tell me what is the library used in Wesnoth to make graphic features?
20100330 16:52:21< shadowmaster> SDL provides the most basic graphics support
20100330 16:52:37< shadowmaster> SDL_image is used for loading images on various formats and converting them into SDL surfaces
20100330 16:53:09< heltonduarte> oh, so the almost all the code is written in C++?
20100330 16:53:28< shadowmaster> yes (and note that the aforementioned libraries are C libraries, not C++)
20100330 16:53:44< heltonduarte> ok
20100330 16:55:00< heltonduarte> I read in the philosophy page that it would be great to make Wesnoth embeddable, but there is already an iPhone version...
20100330 16:55:19< heltonduarte> could it be a good idea to the GSoC project or it's already done?
20100330 16:56:17< shadowmaster> it should be noted that the iPhone version is a 3rd party effort that, while open sourcce, has been reviewed by a few core devs and is not considered generally usable due to its "hack" status.
20100330 16:56:58< shadowmaster> IIRC the main issue with embedded mainline wesnoth atm would be more flexibility regarding input methods.
20100330 17:01:51< heltonduarte> so, coulde this idea be included in the "Port Wesnoth input framework to a more flexible system" one?
20100330 17:07:12-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-213.telecom.by] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:07:25< Ivanovic> heltonduarte: in theory wesnoth is runnable on embedded devices
20100330 17:07:34< Ivanovic> heltonduarte: eg it should run nicely on the n900
20100330 17:08:00< Ivanovic> heltonduarte: that is: input methods and the likes are probably not perfect there and you have to be sure to have enough memory available
20100330 17:08:08< Ivanovic> beside this it "just works"
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20100330 17:11:07< shadowmaster> oh yeah, memory
20100330 17:11:12< shadowmaster> I had forgotten that
20100330 17:11:53< Ivanovic> and maybe the spritesheet proposal does help (at least a little) with memory usage
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20100330 17:16:20< shadowmaster> warning: variable ‘height’ might be clobbered by ‘longjmp’ or ‘vfork’
20100330 17:16:33< shadowmaster> any idea what can cause this on a program when using the mingw32 compiler and how to solve it?
20100330 17:19:01-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:19:22< Crab__> shadowmaster: well, google offers up a decent explanation - http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2003/Dec/msg00050.html
20100330 17:19:36-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-93-104-139-3.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:20:11< shadowmaster> okay, so it sounds like a problem derived from optimization
20100330 17:21:03< shadowmaster> I guess that people using g++ < 4.4 might also get that on Linux. hm.
20100330 17:22:43-!- orfest [~orfest@16.ngu.ac-tel.ru] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:23:24< shadowmaster> ah, no, it works fine with g++ 4.2 on Linux
20100330 17:23:57< shadowmaster> and Boost breaks the configure script with g++ 4.1 so I don't know
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20100330 17:25:28< shadowmaster> bah, actually it's just me believing that I ever installed g++ 4.1. I have gcc 3.4 and 4.1 but without the c++ compiler.
20100330 17:28:20< Ivanovic> shame on you!
20100330 17:28:33< Ivanovic> ;)
20100330 17:34:03< shadowmaster> rc_png.cpp:225: error: invalid conversion from ‘volatile png_uint_32*’ to ‘png_uint_32*’
20100330 17:34:12< shadowmaster> haha...and fendrin complains about const.
20100330 17:35:56-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:39:14-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:39:23< Gambit> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=418408#p418408
20100330 17:40:19< Gambit> I told you that knew drake art would break everything. ;)
20100330 17:41:15< Crab__> Gambit: well, drake art had indeed broken one of the betas :)))
20100330 17:42:57< shadowmaster> and badly
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20100330 17:56:16-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.6.249] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 17:59:01< Crab__> hi, timotei21
20100330 17:59:24< timotei21> hello
20100330 18:01:07< timotei21> well...I wanted to ask you something, need to recall, cause I had to go somewhere in the meantime
20100330 18:03:06< Crab__> ok
20100330 18:15:59< timotei21> well, yeah, I remember.
20100330 18:16:23< timotei21> I have exams during the period 31.05-20.06.2010
20100330 18:16:40< Crab__> yes, lots of students have them
20100330 18:16:42< timotei21> is it ok if I do the work that should be done in that time, now?
20100330 18:17:00< timotei21> I mean, starting already to work on it...
20100330 18:17:38< Crab__> I agree with boucman about this question
20100330 18:18:33< timotei21> mhh, what was boucman answer?
20100330 18:18:39< timotei21> oh. ok
20100330 18:18:44< Crab__> 21:29 <boucman> as for starting a project before the actual commit deadline, you can as long as the rules are clear
20100330 18:18:44< Crab__> 21:29 <boucman> 1) we will review your work, but that does not force us to take you
20100330 18:18:44< Crab__> 21:29 <boucman> 2) otoh, if we take someone else, he will be free to build on your work, this is open source after all...
20100330 18:18:44< Crab__> 1:30 <boucman> 3) during the pre-soc period other students are also interested in the area, we expect you to help them/work with them if they want to work there too
20100330 18:22:47< mordante> timotei21, we allow people to work at other schedules like starting earlier since the start of GSoC often is in the European exam period
20100330 18:23:11< mordante> and of course some students also plan vacations
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20100330 18:28:50< timotei21> okey
20100330 18:30:29< Shuger> are many of those who completed their projects stay with the project after gsoc?
20100330 18:30:44< timotei21> Crab_ is one of them:P
20100330 18:30:52< Shuger> oh :)
20100330 18:33:06< Shuger> and about exams: it's a tough luck that gsoc starts at about the same time when exams and uni projects deadlines
20100330 18:33:33< Crab__> Shuger: yes, I was a student last year, and I'm a mentor this year. but things were happier for me - that was my graduation year, so my exams were in February.
20100330 18:35:25< Shuger> Crab__, why did you stay?
20100330 18:36:16< mordante> ilor, is another one and deekay was already in the community but at other areas
20100330 18:36:34< Crab__> Shuger: because it's interesting to make the world better :) and hacking code for an open-source project is one of the ways to do that.
20100330 18:36:59< Crab__> Shuger: besides, it's very good experience
20100330 18:37:20< mordante> experience is also one of my main reasons for contributing
20100330 18:38:36< Shuger> mordante, what do you usually work on?
20100330 18:40:10< Shuger> Crab__, glad to hear that, i never was in any open source community so i wondered how do people feel about it
20100330 18:41:32< Crab__> welcome, then :)
20100330 18:42:26< mordante> Shuger, for work I'm also coding C and C++; a program to analyze data gathered by wave measuring buoys and some tiny bits of the firmware of the buoys
20100330 18:45:01< Bdorf> what kind of analysis? along the lines of predicting and recording seismic activity?
20100330 18:45:48< mordante> no only ocean waves no seismic activity
20100330 18:46:54< mordante> analyses like average wave height, period, spectral analyses of the energy at certain frequencies and the direction of the waves to name a few
20100330 18:47:23< Shuger> i have a stupid question... how do you update this firmware, those buoys have some kind of stelite uplink to collect data and update when needed?
20100330 18:49:38< mordante> update firmware as little as possible ;-)
20100330 18:50:14< Shuger> oh :D
20100330 18:50:37< mordante> the buoys can have satellite and/or radio links 
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20100330 18:56:16< mysticX> I wanted to ask mordante, and others, what would be your stance to increasing the multiplayer username character limit from 18 to 19
20100330 18:58:25< Bdorf> hmmm, particular reason?
20100330 18:58:45< mordante> I also wonder why I character more is wanted
20100330 18:58:49< mordante> 1*
20100330 18:59:24< mysticX> it gives people more freedom in choosing their names, and it allows people who used to have longer names before to keep them
20100330 19:00:01< mysticX> my name used to have 20 characters
20100330 19:01:05< mordante> now you confuse me, why ask for 19 of you actually prefer 20? ;-)
20100330 19:02:21< mordante> I'm not sure why the limit was added, might be due to length of the screen name or something different
20100330 19:02:35< mysticX> I figured it'd have a better chance if I dont ask too much, and 19 would be enough for me : )
20100330 19:03:13< Bdorf> lol, baby steps. nice.
20100330 19:04:09< mysticX> I asked Boucman, who commited the change: r9782 .. and he said he didn't remember any reason for it to be exactly 18 instead of some other, similar number
20100330 19:06:18< Bdorf> well then we'll make the push to 25 or more, one character at a time, lol :D. but yeah, unusual...guess you need to impose a limit somewhere and why not 18.
20100330 19:06:56< mysticX> because it's too little? : )
20100330 19:07:47< Shuger> hehe, and i need to make some commits for, gsoc maybe instead of searching for bugs to fix i shoud just increase some other arbitrary limit by one :D
20100330 19:08:35< mordante> if boucman also can't remember we can increase the limit in trunk, but I think we better increase it more as one character at the time
20100330 19:08:49< mordante> maybe 25 is a nice number
20100330 19:09:33< mysticX> you would? that would be fantastic
20100330 19:10:11< mordante> you realize that 1.8 is just ready so the increment will take a long time to be noticed...
20100330 19:10:27< mysticX> yes
20100330 19:10:49< Shuger> your friendly neighbourhood wesnoth :)
20100330 19:11:15< mysticX> thank you so much : )
20100330 19:11:25< mordante> you're welcome
20100330 19:11:48< mysticX> making it longer does have some negative effects though..
20100330 19:12:42-!- haoyu [~bhy@cm144.delta24.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100330 19:13:14< mordante> as in
20100330 19:13:19< mysticX> for one the player list gets stretched to the visually longest name, so once someone with 25 letter name logs on, it stretches out everyone's player list
20100330 19:13:49< mordante> true but it gets a scrollbar if it no longer fits on the screen
20100330 19:13:50-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.123.232] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 19:14:37< mordante> but I want to do some testing before committing ;-)
20100330 19:14:50< mysticX> which would get even worse if said player used mostly capitalized and visually longer letters
20100330 19:15:23-!- schumi [~a1184976@gateway/web/freenode/x-eesouybvdvufsxrc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 19:15:59< mordante> you mean like MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ;-)
20100330 19:16:14< mysticX> yes
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20100330 19:33:26< Shuger> should the description of the idea be long and detailed?
20100330 19:35:15-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-4-145-40.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 19:35:45< Shakey> mordante: speaking of scrollbars, it would be nice to eliminate all east/west scrollbars as that seems a step backwards from the last lobby design 
20100330 19:36:07< Bdorf> Shuger: well, verbosity is encouraged. so prob should give as thorough a description as you can/feel necessary.
20100330 19:39:45< Shuger> can i make it as separate page and insert questionaire in the wiki user page?
20100330 19:40:09< timotei21> yes
20100330 19:40:18< timotei21> just link them together
20100330 19:41:12< Shuger> ok, thanks for help :)
20100330 19:41:21< timotei21> np
20100330 19:47:31< mordante> Shakey, yes, but whether they show up depend on your screen size
20100330 19:48:58< Shakey> mordante: I don't pretend to understand it.  I only know the exact same screensize on 1.6.x doesn't have them at all :P
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20100330 19:57:37< mordante> Shakey, might be true but some parts got wider due to the changes to the lobby
20100330 19:57:43< timotei21> mordante, I have again, a question related to the selection process. (this is more internal the public)
20100330 19:57:59< mordante> might be able to optimize later, but works for now
20100330 19:58:02< timotei21> you are 3 mentors, and there are 6-9 projects (which have proposals)...
20100330 19:58:07< timotei21> how you choose the projects?
20100330 19:58:20< timotei21> It's a 1:1 relationship between mentor:project?
20100330 19:58:27< timotei21> mentor : project*
20100330 19:58:43< mordante> there's a 1:1 relation between mentor and student
20100330 19:58:58< fabi> mordante: We are only 3 mentors?
20100330 19:59:10-!- EdB [~EdB@tss37-1-89-84-18-220.dsl.club-internet.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 19:59:21< mordante> depends on you fabi ;-P
20100330 19:59:37-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 20:00:30< mordante> most projects also have a mentor set, but if one mentor gets two of his projects selected we might shuffle with mentors
20100330 20:01:10< mordante> in general we expect students to talk to all developers on irc
20100330 20:02:09< mordante> and it might be that some projects need several areas of expertise and thus can't be guided by one mentor
20100330 20:02:44< mordante> in that case there still will be a real mentor, but he won't be able to answer all questions
20100330 20:02:59< fabi> mordante: It depends on me? I have already subscribed at google, so I am with the crowd.
20100330 20:03:05< mordante> then again making Wesnoth is a group effort ;-)
20100330 20:03:15< mordante> fabi, wasn't sure then we have four
20100330 20:03:46-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-4-145-40.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100330 20:05:39< timotei21> well, I was wondering, since you have only 3mentors, you have to choose only 3 projects, right?
20100330 20:05:53< timotei21> on what is based the coice? on project's importance?
20100330 20:06:26< mordante> mainly on how strong the candidate for the project seems
20100330 20:06:37< timotei21> oh, that's good news:D
20100330 20:07:11< mordante> it might be that some mentors only can/want to do certain things in which case that project gets done if a good student else not
20100330 20:07:51< mordante> we had that a few years ago that rusty wanted to mentor the statistics server project and wasn't really interested in other projects to mentor
20100330 20:08:09< mordante> (that was also his reason to return to wesnoth for a short time)
20100330 20:09:21< timotei21> ok, thank you
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20100330 20:29:37< Shuger> what do you prefer, a person with grat concept of implementing an idea or superior skills?
20100330 20:31:04< Shuger> i wonder because while i have a lot experience with SDL and C++, i don't really now WML and just basics of lua
20100330 20:31:49< mordante> we would be surprised if a new student knows WML ;-)
20100330 20:32:10< mordante> we prefer students that get the job done ;-)
20100330 20:32:29-!- endercoaster [~endercoas@adsl-99-50-182-84.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 20:34:24< mordante> we're not going to make our selection procedure public
20100330 20:34:58< Shuger> that's obvous, i just was wondering do i even have a chance :D
20100330 20:35:13< mordante> of course if rejected your free to ask why (you can ask the same if accepted, but somehow people care less about that reason ;-) )
20100330 20:35:24< mordante> you're*
20100330 20:35:44< mordante> everybody has a chance ;-)
20100330 20:36:52< mordante> if I were you I'd focus on presenting yourself as good as possible, not only by writing a proposal but also being active on irc and submitting patches
20100330 20:36:52< Shuger> i'll stick to that last statement :)
20100330 20:37:44< Shuger> thanks for advice :)
20100330 20:37:51< mordante> in the end we only pick students which we think have a real chance to complete the task and if we have less students as slots we can give slots back to google
20100330 20:38:13< mordante> you're welcome
20100330 20:38:18< Reginleifu> Speaking of which, these patches...
20100330 20:38:30< Reginleifu> How would an interested student get started on patching?
20100330 20:38:51< mordante> you're familiar with svn?
20100330 20:38:58< Reginleifu> Yep
20100330 20:39:20< Reginleifu> You guys have a repository?
20100330 20:39:22< Reginleifu> Well
20100330 20:39:26< Reginleifu> More than that
20100330 20:39:33< Reginleifu> I was wondering if there was a list of patchable ideas
20100330 20:39:40< Shuger> there is
20100330 20:39:46< Reginleifu> i.e. ideas that can be addressed in reasonable amounts of time
20100330 20:40:33< mordante> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
20100330 20:40:34< endercoaster> heh... I implemented a feature request by gabba last night. It took 2 lines of code, and half an hour to figure out where to put them. Of course, now I know the code base just a little bit better.
20100330 20:41:19< mordante> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothSVN
20100330 20:41:19< Ivanovic> endercoaster: and that is the reason for the easy coding tasks
20100330 20:41:23-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-93-104-139-3.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100330 20:41:38< Ivanovic> they are often something many of the core devs could get done in some mins, but we keep them as an easy way to get in
20100330 20:41:53< Shuger> mordante, is GUI2 currently in trunk or another branch?
20100330 20:41:58< mordante> what Ivanovic said ;-)
20100330 20:42:01< crimson_penguin> someone just asked me "I have been looking for the Mac version of the Wesnoth map of the add-on Conquest." and said "I have found the PC version of the download in the forums, but have not found a Mac version. " - I don't really know what they're talking about, but there shouldn't be 2 versions, right?
20100330 20:42:19< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: exactly
20100330 20:42:24< mordante> Shuger, in trunk everything under the src/gui and data/gui subdirectories
20100330 20:42:34< endercoaster> of course, I'm stuck with a too recent version of sdl that isn't detecting mouse clicks in wesnoth, so I can't test to make sure it works :-(
20100330 20:42:35< Espreon> crimson_penguin: For realz?
20100330 20:42:36< Ivanovic> wml is platform independent (that is it works if the interpreter (wesnoth) does work)
20100330 20:42:47< crimson_penguin> Espreon: yup, they PM'd me
20100330 20:42:56< Ivanovic> endercoaster: go fullscreen
20100330 20:42:56 * Espreon cries
20100330 20:43:02< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: yeah, I knew that much, just wasn't 100% sure what they were talking about
20100330 20:43:11< mordante> endercoaster, I would advice to downgrade otherwise working on GSoC will be impossible ;-)
20100330 20:43:30< Ivanovic> mordante: it depends on how bad it is
20100330 20:43:30< endercoaster> yeah. I'm trying to figure out how to install an older version.
20100330 20:43:42-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-88-217-118-179.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 20:43:59< Ivanovic> mordante: for me with kde it does basically work, it is just that i sometimes have to get another window in the focus by clicking on it and then clicking in the wesnoth window again to make things work
20100330 20:44:08< Ivanovic> endercoaster: which distribution?
20100330 20:44:09< mordante> Ivanovic, from the reports it looks bad and no idea whether there lurk other problems
20100330 20:44:19< endercoaster> Ubuntu 10.04 beta
20100330 20:44:35< Ivanovic> endercoaster: first: make sure that ubuntu does know that there is a bug with this version of libsdl!
20100330 20:44:41< Ivanovic> second: no idea!
20100330 20:44:42< Ivanovic> ;)
20100330 20:44:46< mordante> you could switch to Debian ;-)
20100330 20:45:09< endercoaster> And leave my safe, comfortable, ubuntu shell?
20100330 20:45:12< Ivanovic> mordante: the problem is that it seems to be DE dependent
20100330 20:45:14< mordante> debian has a nice blocker bug for 1.2.14 on this issue 
20100330 20:45:34< endercoaster> Alternatively, I could figure out building on my windows side
20100330 20:45:52< Ivanovic> mordante: on some DEs it does break completely, on some there is no issue at all and on some (at least on my system after switching the workspace currently in use) it does work "partly"
20100330 20:45:53< mordante> but can't you downgrade on Ubuntu???
20100330 20:46:11< Ivanovic> endercoaster: trust me, installing an older package in ubuntu will be easier!
20100330 20:46:17< endercoaster> lol
20100330 20:46:18< mordante> Ivanovic, I know on mine it's borked
20100330 20:47:18< Ivanovic> yes, making wesnoth compile, link and run on windows is a, uhm, difficult task
20100330 20:47:21< endercoaster> Ivanovic: it works fine in full screen mode
20100330 20:48:07< Ivanovic> i once managed to get things working some ages ago (when i started with wesnoth and my wlan stick for my laptop only worked with windows) and some two years later the windows packager at that time still used the libs i found to be basically working
20100330 20:48:21< Ivanovic> yes, he tried to upgrade some packages and it failed miserably!
20100330 20:51:34-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 20:52:06< Shuger> building on windows seem to be troublesome, or so it seems from long readme file in Visual studio project folder
20100330 20:52:18< Ivanovic> it is windows
20100330 20:52:22< schumi> Hello, I'm an GSOC applicant , and I want to fix some bugs. I have read the bugs page , but  I'm not sure which one to choose
20100330 20:52:25< Ivanovic> it has to be complicated
20100330 20:52:29< Ivanovic> that is by definition
20100330 20:52:33< Shuger> right :D
20100330 20:53:01< Shuger> after all windows has a bad way for handling libs
20100330 20:53:16< Shuger> or rather it doesn't have it at all ;)
20100330 20:53:35< Ivanovic> (okay, it is some 4 to 5 command lines on linux to get things working, but hey, everyone knows that this is black vodoo and even more comlicated than clicking through 500 windows and checking various checkboxes, selecting stuff from dropdown menus, having to extract things to specific places, ...)
20100330 20:53:50< Ivanovic> Shuger: ehm, windows does have system variables, too
20100330 20:54:01< Ivanovic> Shuger: it is just uncommon for most people to make real use of them
20100330 20:54:53< Shuger> i used them once really, to add python folder to search path
20100330 20:55:56< Shuger> the difference is that in linux they just work...
20100330 20:55:59< mordante> schumi, which area are you interested in?
20100330 20:57:30< Shuger> mordante, speaking of which, can you shed some light on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding#Slider_sizing ?
20100330 20:59:44< schumi> mordante: I want to understand the code better. The area of the bug isn't very important
20100330 21:02:41< Crab_> schumi: try https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15704
20100330 21:03:58< mordante> Shuger, yes the idea is that the slider upon a resize request when possible tries to find a number that matches good with the range to slide
20100330 21:04:07< mordante> that way the steps remain equal
20100330 21:04:19-!- gabba [~gabba@70.35.163.201] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 21:04:32< gabba> hi
20100330 21:04:39< Shuger> hi
20100330 21:04:41< Crab_> hi, gabba
20100330 21:04:59< mordante> now it's possible to do 1,2,1,1,2,1,1,1 etc items when you move with the mouse, better always two and use arrows for fine-stepping (not implemented yet)
20100330 21:05:01< mordante> hi gabba 
20100330 21:05:33< Shuger> i saw it's also a feature request
20100330 21:06:17< mordante> which one of the two?
20100330 21:06:40< Shuger> moving slider with keyboard
20100330 21:07:05< mordante> also an easy coding task ;-)
20100330 21:07:43< timotei21> hey crab_, I'm buzzing you again, can you give me the current cmake for visual studio?:)
20100330 21:08:34< Shuger> i'll try to start with keyboard support i guess, sounds easier ;)
20100330 21:08:34< Crab_> yes (note: it doesn't work yet, some things are to be fixed, related with initialization of static variables)
20100330 21:08:42< Crab_> timotei21: ^
20100330 21:09:01< timotei21> ok, I think I can/should fix it
20100330 21:09:10< Crab_> that's good :)
20100330 21:09:14< mordante> Shuger, ok cool
20100330 21:09:29< timotei21> If I will fix it, should I give you the modifications? So I can be helpful
20100330 21:09:38< Crab_> yes, of course
20100330 21:09:42< Crab_> it'll be a great thing
20100330 21:10:19< Shuger> btw, is there a ready package of libs for VS9?
20100330 21:10:32< timotei21> afair yes
20100330 21:10:41< mordante> Shuger, some hints needed can be found in gui/widgets/scrollbar_container.cpp
20100330 21:10:58< mordante> afk for a while
20100330 21:11:00< endercoaster> ok... my patch works. Can somebody walk me through submitting it?
20100330 21:11:02< Crab_> Shuger: ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/msvc9/external.tar.gz
20100330 21:11:14< Shuger> mordante, ok, i'll take a look
20100330 21:11:23< Shuger> Crab_, thanks :)
20100330 21:11:41< mordante> endercoaster, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9979
20100330 21:12:11< timotei21> so, crab_, could you upload the cmake script on your website?
20100330 21:12:17< timotei21> or is already somewhere there
20100330 21:12:18< mordante> Shuger, and if you manage to create a patch before I return have a look at the submission info I just pasted
20100330 21:12:40< mordante> timotei21, why on a website if we have svn ;-)
20100330 21:12:47< Shuger> ok
20100330 21:13:03< timotei21> well, yeah, but since it "doesn't work" as expected...
20100330 21:14:05< schumi> Crab_: okay. I will try this one.
20100330 21:14:06< gabba> endercoaster: it's cool you're working on https://gna.org/bugs/?15623 :) -- make sure mordante likes the idea though, it was never validated by the "powers that be"(tm)
20100330 21:14:25< Crab_> mordante: the patch is yet untested, and requires more fixes to work (it affects only msvc9 generation, and it compiles/links successfully, but the resulting binary is buggy - some issues with static initializers - it's quite possible that either I'm doing something wrong, or that something depends on the initialization order
20100330 21:16:27< endercoaster> gabba: I suppose your right. It struck me as a new feature that had no chance of breaking gameplay, and I can't see anybody complaining about having widescreen resolutions marked as such.
20100330 21:17:09< endercoaster> you're*
20100330 21:17:25< timotei21> in the meantime, let's update the files
20100330 21:17:29< gabba> endercoaster: I think it's harmless too, but just in case... I wouldn't want you to work for nothing
20100330 21:18:05< endercoaster> gabba: already did the work. I'm going to submit the patch, and if they don't like it, it won't be added
20100330 21:18:38< Crab_> timotei21: ok, 1) in \external\cairo-dev_1.8.8-2_win32\include\cairo\cairo-features.h , comment out CAIRO_HAS_FT_FONT define
20100330 21:18:44< gabba> mordante: ^^
20100330 21:19:10< gabba> endercoaster: alright, what's done is done
20100330 21:19:38< timotei21> yes
20100330 21:20:02< Crab_> 2) save http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/PRcnTQ9d to external/msvc9-cmake.bat
20100330 21:20:06< gabba> endercoaster: btw I see that you're working on the new alliance system; I think there would be interesting interactions with http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba, should we both end up accepted
20100330 21:20:11< Crab_> it's a little script to run cmake :)
20100330 21:20:41< gabba> endercoaster: such as fine-graining who you show your planned moves to, at least
20100330 21:21:11< timotei21> yes
20100330 21:21:13< Crab_> 3) apply this patch http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/HCC965cB
20100330 21:21:33< Crab_> 4) install cmake, put it into %PATH%, run the bat file, open the generated project, it should compile.
20100330 21:21:52< timotei21> ok:D
20100330 21:21:52< endercoaster> I think that if we both get accepted (or if you do and somebody else for the alliance system does), allowing somebody to see you move planning should be an additional permission.
20100330 21:22:12< endercoaster> alright, I'm afk for a bit to do some yardwork
20100330 21:22:15< Crab_> (steps 1-2-3 will be unnecessary in the future, after it's sorted out and committed and uploaded to new version of 'external' )
20100330 21:22:27-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.6.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100330 21:22:39-!- endercoaster is now known as endercoaster|yar
20100330 21:22:50-!- endercoaster|yar is now known as endercoaster|afk
20100330 21:22:55-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.6.249] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 21:23:09< Crab_> timotei21: and add full path to "\external\dll" to %PATH, to allow all runtime dependencies (dlls) to be found
20100330 21:23:47< timotei21> yes
20100330 21:24:59< Crab_> (and that's all)
20100330 21:26:31-!- Lez [~Lezard@189.58.208.6.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 21:26:37< Lez> Hey o/
20100330 21:26:44< Crab_> hi, Lez
20100330 21:28:26< Lez> How are you all today?
20100330 21:28:54< Lez> I'm reading your gsoc ideas list now, to see if i can find something i can help you guys with
20100330 21:29:07< Crab_> that's good :)
20100330 21:30:10< Lez> ESR is here O_o lol
20100330 21:30:18< timotei21> :D
20100330 21:30:19< Lez> haven't talked to him in ages
20100330 21:31:34< schumi> Crab_: I'm trying to the replicate the bug, so I created a small replay file. But when I select the "square" button(reset to beginning) the program crashes with a segmentation fault.
20100330 21:32:23< Soliton> mordante: i don't really see the point of increasing the nick length limit. 18 chars is plenty. also it's hardcoded in translatable strings, some scripts will break etc.
20100330 21:32:32< Crab_> schumi: that's even better, it means you've found another bug ;)))
20100330 21:32:58< Crab_> schumi: as replays shouldn't crash to desktop :)
20100330 21:33:59< Crab_> schumi: (instead, if things are very wrong,they should display a message about the error in the replay)
20100330 21:34:50< gabba> Crab_: For your overlapping paths concern of yesterday: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#Highlight_planned_path_on_select_or_mouseover
20100330 21:35:09< Crab_> gabba: looking...
20100330 21:35:52< Crab_> sneaky ambushing assassin, lol :)
20100330 21:36:01< Crab_> thanks, looks good !
20100330 21:36:08< gabba> Crab_: :)
20100330 21:36:29< timotei21> ok Crab_, now compilings. I'm crossing my fingers:D
20100330 21:36:34< schumi> Crab_: it's happening with every replay file I try.
20100330 21:36:44< Crab_> schumi: try to see the cause 
20100330 21:36:55< Crab_> schumi: and fix it, of course.
20100330 21:37:24< Crab_> gabba: have you figured out what to do with display of ZoC, in interface (setting engine part aside for now) ?
20100330 21:37:49< gabba> Crab_: it was bothering me yesterday
20100330 21:37:51< Crab_> I'm thinking about a simple switch 'ZoC now - ZoC after all moves'
20100330 21:38:23< gabba> Crab_: Yes, I thought of using the tab key for such a quick switch
20100330 21:38:29< Crab_> (if multiple units move into a single hex, taking last unit)
20100330 21:39:02< Crab_> also, it might be useful (if not too hard to use), to allow to make assumptions about enemy units. e.g., "what will zoc look like if that, that, and that enemy units are dead ?"
20100330 21:39:04< timotei21> what is: SUF
20100330 21:39:13< timotei21> it's something in WML [have_unit]
20100330 21:39:15< Crab_> shikadibot: SUF ?
20100330 21:39:16< shikadibot> Sorry, I don't know what 'SUF' means...
20100330 21:39:19< Crab_> :)
20100330 21:39:24< Crab_> Standard Unit Filter
20100330 21:39:27< timotei21> oh
20100330 21:39:28< timotei21> ok
20100330 21:39:29< gabba> Crab_: exactly my thoughts, except that I'm not sure if the 'ZoC now' or 'after' should be the default
20100330 21:39:49< Crab_> gabba: imo, stick to ZoC after as default
20100330 21:40:07< gabba> Crab_: ^adding assumptions to my pool of optional ideas, it's good
20100330 21:40:36< Crab_> gabba: note that, if assumptions are implemented, you can auto-assume that units, say, with >80% ctk will be dead.
20100330 21:41:02< Crab_> gabba: or not.. depends..
20100330 21:41:16< Crab_> gabba: but it's a thing to keep in mind
20100330 21:41:25< schumi> Crab_: Can you see if it happens with you too (my version is 1.9.0-svn(41885))? Maybe it's a local bug 
20100330 21:41:48< Crab_> schumi: even if it's your local bug, it's a bug,isn't it ?
20100330 21:42:07< Crab_> schumi: how to reproduce ? watch a random replay ?
20100330 21:45:11< schumi> Crab_: I started a local game with a computer and saved the replay. And the bug happens when I open it and select the button.
20100330 21:45:36-!- Darkas_ [~quassel@ppp-88-217-110-232.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 21:45:43< Crab_> Shuger: note that, as of now, your page is not visible in the list of student pages. is this intended ?
20100330 21:46:25< Shuger> Crab_, yes, i haven't really finished yet and i don't have the most importatn part - idea page 
20100330 21:46:32< Crab_> ok
20100330 21:46:57< timotei21> lol, no unit_filter reference:((
20100330 21:47:16< Crab_> schumi: well, replays seem to work for me
20100330 21:47:32< Crab_> timotei21: compile error, link error, or what ?
20100330 21:47:48< timotei21> no, I'm looking on the wiki page
20100330 21:47:55< Crab_> ah
20100330 21:47:57< timotei21> for the unit_filter
20100330 21:47:59< fabi> hello
20100330 21:48:20-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-88-217-118-179.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100330 21:48:21< Crab_> timotei21: at that page ? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/StandardUnitFilter
20100330 21:48:23< Crab_> fabi: hi
20100330 21:49:14< timotei21> lol, I was searching just for unit_filter which redirects me to AnimationWML, maybe that should be fixed
20100330 21:49:23< timotei21> I don't really know, so I won't modify anything
20100330 21:49:33< timotei21> thanks for the page
20100330 21:50:59< gabba> Oh noes, Baidu [Spider] is browsing the thread where I posted my images
20100330 21:51:11< Crab_> gabba: ok, I now see the numbers on moves, too
20100330 21:51:12< gabba> The Chinese are stealing my ideas as we speak :P
20100330 21:51:45< Crab_> gabba: but, can you show me examples of order with 2 and 3 digits ?
20100330 21:51:58< Crab_> gabba: just to be sure that the idea will work ok
20100330 21:51:58-!- Ken_Oh [~briang@static-71-178-174-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100330 21:52:27< zookeeper> wait, do we have any new screenshots for 1.8?
20100330 21:52:34< gabba> Crab_: yes -- I may stop displaying numbers after one digit, and provide a list to complement
20100330 21:52:45< Crab_> gabba: ok
20100330 21:53:14< Crab_> gabba: maybe it's possible to display two digits as well ? have you tried ?
20100330 21:54:10< Crab_> mordante: can you review a patch to cmake files ? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/HCC965cB
20100330 21:54:13< gabba> Crab_: no, but I don't know if it will be readable enough with the "under the unit" effect, or too wide with the "on the ball" effect
20100330 21:54:29< gabba> will try
20100330 21:54:46< Crab_> mordante: I'll fix formatting of the patch and cleanup somewhat, but I wanted to verify if I've has broken anything or not
20100330 21:55:56< Crab_> timotei21: ok, it seems that after some small fixes I've got wesnoth to run for me
20100330 21:56:09< timotei21> well, I'm still compiling for now:)
20100330 21:56:21< timotei21> it takes pretty long time
20100330 21:56:45< Crab_> timotei21: good. things are slow over here (I'm working over an RDP connection , so graphics are slow :) )
20100330 21:56:53< timotei21> :D
20100330 21:57:34< schumi> Crab_: this is strange...  
20100330 21:57:53< Crab_> schumi: can you PM me (Crab on forums) a replay ? 
20100330 21:58:01< Crab_> schumi: or, show a backtrace 
20100330 21:58:21< schumi> Crab_: how I get a backtrace?
20100330 21:58:37< Crab_> launch wesnoth from a debugger or attach a debugger to wesnoth
20100330 22:00:07< timotei21> crab_
20100330 22:00:14< timotei21> you forgot  the folder: serialization
20100330 22:00:18< timotei21> src/serialization
20100330 22:00:23< Crab_> timotei21: might be, easy to fix
20100330 22:01:00< Crab_> timotei21: the files are included anyway, they'll just in the 'base' folder
20100330 22:01:06< timotei21> oh
20100330 22:01:07< timotei21> ok
20100330 22:01:18< timotei21> I was talking about the SOURCE_GROUP()
20100330 22:01:28< Crab_> yes, I understood
20100330 22:01:45< Crab_> but it's just 'folders', the actual list of files to be included is taken from cmake file
20100330 22:02:39< timotei21> ok
20100330 22:02:43< schumi> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/kqsdCZNe
20100330 22:03:15< Crab_> schumi: good. now, instead of  quit, type bt :)
20100330 22:03:22< Crab_> schumi: when you get a segfault, that is.
20100330 22:03:47< Crab_> schumi: now you know that it crashed in  in unit_map::find(map_location const&), but you can get the entire trace
20100330 22:04:06< Crab_> and, if you had compiled the debug build, then you'd be able to get a stack trace, as well
20100330 22:08:26< schumi> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/5011X7mU. this time it crashed without an seg fault, so i had to kill it
20100330 22:08:52< Crab_> schumi: so, now you have two good things
20100330 22:08:53-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-213.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100330 22:09:04< Crab_> schumi: 1) you know where it crashed, what code path led to crash
20100330 22:09:38< Crab_> 2) you know how wesnoth's code runs a replay - see the bottom of your stack trace, the structure is nicely seen
20100330 22:10:20< CIA-64> crab * r41886 /branches/fendrin_editor/ (CMakeLists.txt src/CMakeLists.txt): trick CMake into generating MSVC9 project files
20100330 22:12:26< schumi> Crab_: but on the other I have a bug :( . I will look the code
20100330 22:14:10< Crab_> fabi: you're using cmake to generate eclipse project files, yes ?
20100330 22:16:26< timotei21> hey crab,could you take a look at my current proposal?:D
20100330 22:16:33< timotei21> Crab_: IEI! compile succesfully
20100330 22:16:41< timotei21> I love you <3
20100330 22:16:49< timotei21> let's see if it runs
20100330 22:16:57< Crab_> timotei21: add dll folder to path
20100330 22:17:06< timotei21> done that
20100330 22:17:24< Crab_> timotei21: and then apply this patch http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/uB41dafA
20100330 22:17:44< Crab_> it fixes some of the 'static initialization order' issues
20100330 22:20:26< timotei21> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerofCode_Timotei21
20100330 22:20:27< timotei21> here
20100330 22:20:38-!- endercoaster|afk is now known as endercoaster
20100330 22:20:40< timotei21> it's a more ellaborate version, even though not the final
20100330 22:20:58< timotei21> maybe you could peek on it, and tell me what to update/ add more information
20100330 22:21:16< Crab_> ok, I'll take a look. be sure to ping fendrin, as well.
20100330 22:21:23< timotei21> ok
20100330 22:21:56< timotei21> I'm getting very excited when seeing that the eclipse plugin isn't too easy, and it presents some "hard" things
20100330 22:22:34< Ivanovic> the problem is that fendrin/fabi is rather inactive over the next days
20100330 22:22:43< Ivanovic> he has one huge exam still open and got to prepare for it
20100330 22:22:51< Ivanovic> yes, bad timing, but that's real life...
20100330 22:26:05< fabi> yeah
20100330 22:29:00< timotei21> well... there's one more week
20100330 22:29:02< timotei21> for the applications
20100330 22:29:10< timotei21> it isn't world's end
20100330 22:33:51< timotei21> fabi = fendrin??
20100330 22:34:40< Ivanovic> never heard about alternate names?
20100330 22:34:50< timotei21> I've heard.
20100330 22:34:55< Ivanovic> that is: we should not disturb him, unless it is required
20100330 22:35:01< timotei21> ok
20100330 22:35:02< Ivanovic> if he has time, he will participate in here
20100330 22:35:51< gabba> Crab_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#Variants_and_experiments_on_the_numbering_system
20100330 22:39:34< timotei21> Crab_, srry for the wrong font on the page, forgot to close a tag
20100330 22:41:14-!- Dakmor_Z [~dakmor@host81-148-252-238.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100330 22:41:29< timotei21> well, I gonna go
20100330 22:41:43< Crab_> timotei21: ok, reading now
20100330 22:41:56< Crab_> timotei21: will tell you my thoughts later,
20100330 22:42:01< Crab_> timotei21: so far mostly good
20100330 22:42:05< timotei21> ok
20100330 22:42:15< timotei21> well, if you want, I can wait 10-15 more minutes
20100330 22:42:17< timotei21> ;)
20100330 22:42:35< Crab_> timotei21: no, I don't want to hurry :)
20100330 22:42:40< timotei21> ok, then
20100330 22:42:46< timotei21> we'll talk tomorrow
20100330 22:42:50< timotei21> good night
20100330 22:42:52< Crab_> good
20100330 22:43:03< timotei21> I prefer talking live, rather than reading the logs:P
20100330 22:43:50-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@188.24.6.249] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
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20100330 22:52:08< schumi> Crab_: can't find the bug...
20100330 22:52:33< Crab_> schumi: e.g., you're unable to reproduce it?
20100330 22:53:39< alexandr> Hello! My name is Alexandr an I want to introduce myself as it is a first demand on a quick list of things to do to get started. 
20100330 22:54:29< schumi> Crab_: I can only reproduce it :)
20100330 22:58:53-!- pokhbocee [~ebo@ws40.cs.drexel.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 22:58:59< Crab_> hi, alexandr. the next thing is to pick out a project you're interested in, and start discussing it
20100330 22:59:42< schumi> Crab_: if you want I can send you the replay file, but it seens like it is a local problem.
20100330 23:00:22< Crab_> schumi: are you running unmodified code from svn ?
20100330 23:01:07< schumi> Crab_: yes
20100330 23:01:50< Crab_> schumi: then, even if it's some kind of local issue, it's worth investigating and fixing, since other players can be hit by it, too
20100330 23:02:04< Crab_> schumi: or, it's too hard to find out the cause (it might be, yes) ?
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20100330 23:04:45< Crab_> gabba: interesting experiments. later, we can also try displaying the numbers at the destination hex, displaying chance-to-kill values, etc. but, for now, the interface part for moves seems pretty complete and full of ideas and possibilities
20100330 23:05:11< Crab_> gabba: are you satisfied with the interface mockups you currently have ?
20100330 23:05:30< schumi> Crab_: yes, it's important to find the source of the problem, but i don't know the cause
20100330 23:06:09< Crab_> schumi: usually segfaults are caused by bad memory being accessed
20100330 23:06:28< gabba> Crab_: I'm satisfied with the mockups for moves at least
20100330 23:07:04< gabba> Crab_: obviously I need more text description for all this, and/or an interface "feature list"
20100330 23:07:52< gabba> Crab_: for menus and the like I may list the options I'm thinking of adding, but no graphical mockup for that
20100330 23:07:58< Crab_> schumi: one of the ways to track down those kinds of bugs is to do a printf-style logging of constructors and destructors, and find a place where the object which is later used, is destroyed
20100330 23:08:06< schumi> Crab_: I know only a few  gdb commands. is there any command  that can help?
20100330 23:08:06< Crab_> schumi: but this is hard to do
20100330 23:08:47< Crab_> schumi: well, last time I've had to track down such a bug, I used ' printf-style logging of constructors and destructors', not gdb
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20100330 23:08:55< gabba> Crab_: so that leaves the other actions such as recruit, dismiss, etc., for which I'll try to go with only a text description
20100330 23:09:02-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:09:12< Crab_> gabba: well, for recruit/recall you can show a unit shadow :)
20100330 23:09:17< gabba> Crab_: those mockups are pretty time-consuming to make (except for variants of the same thing)
20100330 23:09:35< Crab_> gabba: yes, so that's why I'm asking 'if you're satisfied with them or not':)
20100330 23:09:48< Crab_> gabba: right now, they're cool enough to show how your idea will work
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20100330 23:10:22< gabba> Crab_: let's say 'yes for now', unless I feel I can't explain some other concept adequately without an image
20100330 23:10:24< Crab_> schumi: basically, it might had happened there that a unit reference was invalid
20100330 23:10:29< Crab_> gabba: good
20100330 23:10:36-!- Dakmor [~dakmor@host81-148-252-238.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:10:37< Crab_> gabba: time to move to engine side of things ?
20100330 23:10:50-!- Vetinari [~lukjad007@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100330 23:10:57< Crab_> schumi: this leads us to  game_display::redraw_units line in the backtrace
20100330 23:11:15< pokhbocee> hey everybody
20100330 23:11:20< gabba> Crab_: that side is already pretty well developed (text-wise), maybe just adding a sequence diagram will be enough?
20100330 23:11:35< Crab_> gabba: yes, I think it's the way to do it.
20100330 23:11:43< Crab_> gabba: sequence diagrams for 'me,ally,enemy'
20100330 23:11:46< gabba> Crab_: (and perhaps a class diagram too, not sure)
20100330 23:11:59< Crab_> no, no need for class diagrams
20100330 23:12:09< Crab_> we need to know 'what' you want to do, not how
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20100330 23:12:27< Crab_> gabba: I'm sure that you'll be able to pick a suitable class hierarchy
20100330 23:12:38< Crab_> gabba: but I need sequence diagrams to check if the idea will work
20100330 23:12:41< gabba> Crab_: also I don't know if I should do research on how to do the ZOC calculations for the "future" unit positions, seems like it should be straightforward
20100330 23:13:04< Crab_> gabba: yes, 'cook up a unit map and make it happen' is a good enough solution
20100330 23:13:12< gabba> Crab_: k
20100330 23:14:29< pokhbocee> Crab_: there were stub methods for evaluation and execution in scenario-lua-ai.cfg so i thought they r not implemented yet.
20100330 23:14:52< Dakmor> Hello everyone
20100330 23:14:57< endercoaster> Hi Dak
20100330 23:15:04< pokhbocee> and patch 1558 is not aming the patches
20100330 23:15:05< pokhbocee> hey
20100330 23:15:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: it's 'done', so not displayed in there
20100330 23:15:23< Crab_> hi, Dakmor
20100330 23:15:24< Dakmor> I'm a GSoC applicant, hoping that I'm not too late
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20100330 23:15:36< Crab_> Dakmor: no, there's plenty of time left :)
20100330 23:15:37< Dakmor> I know the deadline is the 9th April
20100330 23:15:41< Crab_> yes
20100330 23:15:49< Dakmor> Ahh, that's good
20100330 23:16:20< Dakmor> Only became aware of gsoc a couple of days ago
20100330 23:16:27< Dakmor> Had an email sent around by my uni
20100330 23:16:48< Dakmor> Thought this looked like a pretty interesting project to get involved in
20100330 23:17:53< Dakmor> What sort of experience are you looking for?
20100330 23:18:13< Dakmor> I mean I've read your page for gsoc and ideas
20100330 23:18:37< Dakmor> but do we have to have extensive experience in c++, cmake and the other languages/tools?
20100330 23:19:02< Dakmor> Or is a solid interest and willingness to learn them good too?
20100330 23:19:19< pokhbocee> Crab_: oh i see. btw i was trying to find the source code of implementation but. i couldnt find them. .lua files doesnt contain those methods
20100330 23:19:22-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100330 23:19:47< Crab_> Dakmor: for most of the projects, you need to be familiar with C++, other things not important
20100330 23:19:59-!- General_Fou_Fou [~Sarah@dhip-116.wl.rs.rrw.colby.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:20:02< Crab_> Dakmor: for lua ai project, knowing lua c bindings is a plus
20100330 23:20:12< Crab_> Darkas_: for eclipse plugin, s/c++/java
20100330 23:20:30< Crab_> oops, sorry, ^ for Dakmor
20100330 23:20:34< Dakmor> hehe
20100330 23:20:43< Crab_> yeah, happens sometimes :)
20100330 23:20:56< Dakmor> I've got experience with c and java over the last two years
20100330 23:21:10-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@d098110.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100330 23:21:26< Dakmor> Currently involved in a team project for creating 3D models from 2D blueprints so fairly in depth stuff
20100330 23:21:32< Dakmor> but sadly no c++ experience =[
20100330 23:21:50< Dakmor> (using java for the 3D project)
20100330 23:21:51< pokhbocee> Crab_: and last week i was looking for formula_ai actions that are not implemented in lua yet. the things is i dont know which methods are implemented. 
20100330 23:22:01< YogiHH> Upthorn: hello, i have seen my name mentioned in the log. Any information you need me for at the moment?
20100330 23:22:02< Crab_> pokhbocee: src/scripting/lua.cpp <- implementation of lua engine (c++) code.
20100330 23:22:10< pokhbocee> Crab_: the link you said contains move,attack,recruit,recall,stop actions right?
20100330 23:22:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes
20100330 23:22:37< Crab_> pokhbocee: see the LuaWML page, and compare with formula ai wiki pages
20100330 23:22:48< Upthorn> YogiHH: not yet, but later today or tomorrow I will probably have questions about the gamestatus class.
20100330 23:23:01< Crab_> Dakmor: try to check out wesnoth's code, and compile it
20100330 23:23:26< schumi> Crab_: the strange part is that only hapens with the reset to beginning button
20100330 23:23:51< Crab_> schumi: well, maybe some thing is not invalidated properly....
20100330 23:23:54< YogiHH> Upthorn: I probably won't be around for long as it is getting late around here. Just put your questions here and i will answer them as soon as i can.
20100330 23:24:18< Upthorn> yeah, I will ask them when I have them. I have not yet examined the class to know what to ask about.
20100330 23:24:25< Dakmor> Crab_: Okay, will do that now
20100330 23:24:39< CIA-64> crab * r41888 /trunk/src/ (race.cpp unit_types.cpp): fix some segfaults in MSVC9 caused by static initialization order issues
20100330 23:24:44< CIA-64> crab * r41887 /trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt src/CMakeLists.txt): trick CMake into generating MSVC9 project files
20100330 23:25:42< Upthorn> oh neat, that should automatically keep the vc9 projects up to date, then?
20100330 23:25:52< Crab_> Upthorn: yes
20100330 23:26:22< Crab_> Upthorn: it is designed to work with ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/msvc9/external.zip
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20100330 23:27:36< Crab_> Upthorn: start: 1) download ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/msvc9/external.zip and unpack into wesnoth's directory 2) install cmake and put it into %PATH% 3) put external/dll into %PATH%  4) run external/msvc9-cmake.bat 5) open generated project file and compile
20100330 23:28:04< Crab_> Upthorn: update: 5)  open generated project file and compile, it should detect changes in cmake file and regenerate.
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20100330 23:28:42< endercoaster> https://gna.org/patch/?1568
20100330 23:28:44< Crab_> Upthorn: there might be some rough edges around (like segfaults that r41888 fixed), but they'll be fixable
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20100330 23:33:45< mordante> Crab_, I fixed on static initialization issue I introduced
20100330 23:33:56< Crab_> mordante: there was another one :)
20100330 23:34:08< Crab_> mordante: they depend on 'how we build in MSVC9':)
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20100330 23:34:12< Soliton> Crab_: port to 1.8?
20100330 23:35:10< Crab_> Soliton: yes, will do if no one will complain about side effects (shouldn't happen, since I've only messed with if(MSVC) parts )
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20100330 23:36:49< mordante> Soliton, ok then we can keep it at 18, personally I don't care too much
20100330 23:37:18-!- gabba [~gabba@70.35.163.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100330 23:37:29< Soliton> i'd prefer that.
20100330 23:37:40< mordante> endercoaster, your patch has an odd way to do double calculations...
20100330 23:40:21-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:40:30< mordante> Crab_, your patch line 38 removed fontconfig, I think it will break on Linux, maybe move it in the else of the if( MSVC ) in front of it
20100330 23:41:17< Crab_> mordante: else(MSVC)                   include_directories( ${FONTCONFIG_INCLUDE_DIRS} ) ?
20100330 23:41:18< endercoaster> ok... I'm silly and could have done the 15/9 as 15.0/9.0, but I don't think there's a way to handle the variable division without casting.
20100330 23:41:45< Crab_> mordante: I've committed a fixed version
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20100330 23:42:15< Crab_> mordante: if you're looking at the pastebin one, yes, it had this error. but I've fixed it before committing
20100330 23:43:18< mordante> Crab_, I also think the WIN32 flag to the executables doesn't need to be ifdeffed, guess non -WIN32 platforms ignore it
20100330 23:44:12< Crab_> mordante: well, 'better be safe', I thought :) but, if someone can confirm that it works everywhere, then it can be removed.
20100330 23:44:45< Crab_> and here's a compilation guide - http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows#Compiling_Wesnoth_on_Windows
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20100330 23:46:55< mordante> Crab_, that's the whole point of the static initialization fiasco, ain't it ;-)
20100330 23:46:58< endercoaster> Alright, I think my newer version of the patch is the best I can do to get the divisions to return doubles: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1568
20100330 23:47:56 * Crab_ remembers the day when wesnoth's logging subsystem had static initialization order issues....
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20100330 23:49:17< Crab_> schumi: if there'll be too hard to chase the bug, try another one, it might be easier. replay code can can be messy sometimes :)
20100330 23:49:20< mordante> Crab_, testing with the WIN32 explicitly enabled
20100330 23:49:27< Crab_> mordante: ok
20100330 23:51:25< mordante> build works here, shall I commit or you?
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20100330 23:51:55< Crab_> commit
20100330 23:52:11-!- gabba [~gabba@70.35.162.86] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:52:57< mordante> endercoaster, I was mainly wondering about the 15./9.
20100330 23:53:14< gabba> Crab_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#Sequence_diagram_showing_the_exchange_of_data
20100330 23:53:23< Crab_> gabba: looking...
20100330 23:53:44< endercoaster> should I go to the top and define a macro instead of using a magic number?
20100330 23:53:51< mordante> endercoaster, of course you can also do the calculation differently
20100330 23:54:02< mordante> endercoaster, please no magic numbers
20100330 23:54:13< schumi> Crab_: yes... but I will try a bit more. I think I'm making some advances.
20100330 23:54:27-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-88-217-110-232.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100330 23:54:39< Crab_> schumi: good luck to you, then. at least you'll see some interesting wesnoth code ;)
20100330 23:55:10< mordante> endercoaster, another problem is the " [widescreen]" why square instead of round braces? and the string is not translatable
20100330 23:55:52< schumi> Crab_:yes, I'm learning a lot. I think the problem is in the reset_replay method, but not sure.
20100330 23:56:09< CIA-64> mordante * r41889 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/notifiee.hpp: Add a missing include.
20100330 23:56:09< schumi> Crab_: have to go now. bye and thanks for the help!
20100330 23:56:14< CIA-64> mordante * r41890 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (scrollbar_container.cpp scrollbar_container.hpp): 
20100330 23:56:14< CIA-64> Convert to use new callbacks.
20100330 23:56:14< CIA-64> Converts the tscrollbar_container.
20100330 23:56:16< Crab_> schumi: bye
20100330 23:56:16< CIA-64> mordante * r41891 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (editor_settings.cpp editor_settings.hpp): 
20100330 23:56:16< CIA-64> Convert to use new callbacks.
20100330 23:56:16< CIA-64> Converts the editor settings dialog.
20100330 23:56:19< CIA-64> mordante * r41892 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/editor_resize_map.hpp: Add som some comment.
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20100330 23:56:24< CIA-64> mordante * r41893 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (scrollbar.cpp scrollbar.hpp): 
20100330 23:56:24< CIA-64> Remove the old callbacks in the scrollbar.
20100330 23:56:24< CIA-64> Also added the new one at some places which was forgotten in the initial
20100330 23:56:24< CIA-64> commit.
20100330 23:56:26< CIA-64> mordante * r41894 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/dialog.hpp: Fix some doxygen comment.
20100330 23:56:29< CIA-64> mordante * r41895 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (25 files): Let widgets register themselves automatically.
20100330 23:56:33< CIA-64> mordante * r41896 /trunk/doc/design/gui2.tex: Add bootstrap info to the design documentation.
20100330 23:56:35< CIA-64> mordante * r41897 /trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt: Add the WIN32 flag for cmake unconditionally.
20100330 23:56:42< mordante> Crab_, ^
20100330 23:56:48< Crab_> thanks
20100330 23:56:52< CIA-64> mordante * r41898 /trunk/src/ (mouse_handler_base.cpp mouse_handler_base.hpp): 
20100330 23:56:52< CIA-64> Make a member function a const member function.
20100330 23:56:52< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:56:55< endercoaster> mordante: the square brackets of parenthesis was a stylistic decision that I can change. Can you give me a hint for where to start thinking in terms of making the string translatable?
20100330 23:56:58< CIA-64> mordante * r41899 /trunk/src/ai/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): 
20100330 23:56:59< CIA-64> Make a member function a const member function.
20100330 23:56:59< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:57:02< CIA-64> mordante * r41900 /trunk/src/ai/formula/ai.cpp: 
20100330 23:57:02< CIA-64> Use empty() instead of comparing size() with 0.
20100330 23:57:02< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:57:03< CIA-64> mordante * r41901 /trunk/src/builder.cpp: 
20100330 23:57:04< CIA-64> Use empty() instead of comparing size() with 0.
20100330 23:57:04< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:57:07< CIA-64> mordante * r41902 /trunk/src/unit_types.cpp: 
20100330 23:57:07< CIA-64> Use empty() instead of comparing size() with 0.
20100330 23:57:07< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:57:08< CIA-64> mordante * r41903 /trunk/src/attack_prediction.cpp: 
20100330 23:57:09< CIA-64> Remove an unused variable.
20100330 23:57:09< CIA-64> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100330 23:58:25< mordante> endercoaster, we use a macro for that eg _("foo") it requires the gettext.hpp header included
20100330 23:58:43< CIA-64> crab * r41904 /trunk/ (changelog projectfiles/VC9/README.txt): document CMake+MSVC9 compilation process
20100330 23:59:04< endercoaster> mordante: I'm also unclear as to whether or not you want to me use #define WIDESCREEN_THRESHOLD 5.0/3
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20100330 23:59:45< mordante> endercoaster, no please no magic number just locally with the comment is much clearer
20100330 23:59:54< endercoaster> ok, thank you
--- Log closed Wed Mar 31 00:00:01 2010