--- Log opened Wed Mar 31 00:00:01 2010
--- Day changed Wed Mar 31 2010
20100331 00:00:01 * Crab_ is tempted to kill off everything in projectfiles/VC9 except the readme... but will wait for a while to see if all is ok.
20100331 00:00:34< Ivanovic> sounds like a good plan to me!
20100331 00:00:39< mordante> and in general in c++ no macros like that instead do "const double foo = 15./9.;" if you need a constant
20100331 00:00:56< mordante> is it your first patch?
20100331 00:01:22< endercoaster> yeah
20100331 00:01:31< endercoaster> I know, it's a small one
20100331 00:01:34< Ivanovic> is the [widescreen] part translateable?
20100331 00:01:43< mordante> Ivanovic, no it isn't
20100331 00:01:49< Ivanovic> (just had a really short look at the list of patches)
20100331 00:02:09< endercoaster> Would it be translateable if it was " (wide screen)"?
20100331 00:02:21< mordante> I'm discussing the patch here and already brought up that point ;-)
20100331 00:02:41< mordante> endercoaster, no you need _(" (wide screen)")
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20100331 00:03:25< endercoaster> ok... I was going to go about adding in the macro for that. If I use the macro, do I need to put a space in widescreen?
20100331 00:03:27< mordante> endercoaster, it doesn't matter whether small or big, but read this thread http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9979 especially the changelog and about.cfg
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20100331 00:06:06< Crab_> gabba: ok, looking at the sequence diagram, I see that the enemy is not really needed at the diagram...
20100331 00:06:57< gabba> Crab_: not really, but he doesn't hurt either
20100331 00:07:13< Crab_> takes up space ;))
20100331 00:07:39< Crab_> gabba: basically, for start we can have several 'ally groups', each of those with a separate whiteboard, and consider only a separate ally group at a time...
20100331 00:08:07< gabba> Crab_: yes, but other people might ask what happens to enemies and I'll have to go into lenghty explanations :(
20100331 00:08:20< Crab_> gabba: yes, let it stay this way there :)
20100331 00:08:34< Crab_> gabba: after all, it nicely shows that nothing too important happens with them :))
20100331 00:08:38< fabi> Crab_: A question?
20100331 00:08:57< Crab_> fabi: yes ?
20100331 00:09:14< Crab_> fabi: (I've wanted to ask if new cmake file still works for you)
20100331 00:09:40< fabi> Okay I can test that.
20100331 00:09:59< Crab_> fabi: I expect that it would work, but to avoid any surprises...
20100331 00:10:09< pokhbocee> Crab_: are there any functions implemented in lua other than move,attack,recruit,recall and stop ?
20100331 00:10:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, lua ai code can call most of the stuff from LuaWML (noting the issues silene talked about)
20100331 00:10:47< fabi> Crab_: I am only known to how I can create an eclipse project.
20100331 00:11:06< Crab_> fabi: then check it and that's all :)
20100331 00:11:15< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, there are lots of other stuff, described at LuaWML wiki page
20100331 00:11:47< pokhbocee> yes i have read them again but still pieces not fit each other in my head.
20100331 00:12:13< pokhbocee> i still have difficulty all these different sources interact with each other
20100331 00:12:30< Crab_> pokhbocee: there's a number of tables which are created
20100331 00:12:48< Crab_> pokhbocee: one per-ai table, and several global tables like 'wesnoth'
20100331 00:13:22< Crab_> pokhbocee: per-ai table contains all the stuff like move,move_full,attack,recruit,recall and stop, and side number
20100331 00:13:40< Crab_> pokhbocee: user creates his ai as a table which uses the ai table as external local variable
20100331 00:13:56< Crab_> pokhbocee: and, wesnoth. and other global tables can be used, too
20100331 00:14:42< Crab_> gabba: what if two allies change planned moves at the same time ?
20100331 00:15:02< pokhbocee> hmm. 
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20100331 00:15:43< Crab_> gabba: and, are there any issues if players drop from the game?
20100331 00:15:59< gabba> Crab_: you mean me and my ally, or two allies of mine sending me their planned moves simultaneously?
20100331 00:16:17< Crab_> gabba: simpler case first - 'me and my ally'
20100331 00:16:42< gabba> Crab_: well, nothing special to do here I think
20100331 00:16:42< pokhbocee> Crab_: how can i distinguish between the methods implemented in lua and not implemented in lua. Can lua use all the functions of other parts of the game?
20100331 00:17:02< endercoaster> Alright, I think I have it now. https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1568
20100331 00:17:05< Crab_> gabba: and, if you have two allies, they'll be sending their moves to both you and them ? or, one person will act like a 'coordinator' ?
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20100331 00:17:43< Crab_> gabba: e.g., A,B,C = allies;   A is 'me',    B will send to A and C,             C will send to A and B          ?
20100331 00:18:03< Crab_> or 'C will send to A,      B will send to A,        A will resend  to B and C' ?
20100331 00:18:04< gabba> Crab_: I'll clone the current mechanism for sending replays -- looks like there's forwarding of data between clients
20100331 00:18:11< Crab_> ok
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20100331 00:18:19< pokhbocee> Crab_:   'close enemies' function seems to be has not implemented in lua. am i right?
20100331 00:18:21< Crab_> so, 'a filtered replay' ?
20100331 00:18:53< Crab_> pokhbocee:no, lua cannot use all the functions of other parts of the game if it hasn't got a right 'hook'
20100331 00:18:54< mordante> endercoaster, I look at it later today after I had some sleep, basically looks good, but haven't tested ingame yet
20100331 00:19:07< endercoaster> alrighty
20100331 00:19:23-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100331 00:19:44< gabba> Crab_: well, actually I'm not sure, since it seems both forwarding and direct sending could work -- I'll have to see what are the network constraints
20100331 00:20:26< Crab_> 'the number of potential bugs' is the most important factor :)
20100331 00:21:11< Crab_> gabba: even 'impossible' timing scenarios will realize themselves from time to time, so the system has to be very robust.
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20100331 00:21:51< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, it is not implemented
20100331 00:21:56< Crab_> pokhbocee: you can implement it in pure lua
20100331 00:22:07< pokhbocee> Crab_: if its not implemented i can do that one. It seems easy so, i can do that to get used to the interface.
20100331 00:22:42< pokhbocee> Crab_: Actually do you have a suggestion in this point?
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20100331 00:23:43< Soliton> gabba: there are no direct connections, everything goes through the server.
20100331 00:24:19< gabba> Soliton: ah, so the forwarding code I've seen was used on the server then
20100331 00:24:29< Crab_> Soliton: it's 'B->server->C' or 'B->server->A->server->C' choice that we have here
20100331 00:24:59< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, you can implement it if you think that it will be useful for the ai writer. it can be implemented in pure lua (using wesnoth.get_units() )
20100331 00:25:10< gabba> Crab_: then definitely B->server->C
20100331 00:25:47< Crab_> gabba: then, you'll need conflict resolution for a distributed vcs :)
20100331 00:25:54< gabba> Crab_: also, accidents with syncing the planned moves have much less consequences i.e. they won't desync the game
20100331 00:26:07< Crab_> gabba: note that you must keep the whiteboards for A,B,C in sync
20100331 00:26:49< pokhbocee> Crab_: i think it could be useful. Do you think its not that useful?
20100331 00:27:09< Crab_> pokhbocee: I wanted to hear your opinion :)
20100331 00:28:16-!- endercoaster [~endercoas@adsl-99-50-182-84.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100331 00:28:19< gabba> Crab_: not really a problem (unless I'm missing something): as explained on my proposal page, every maintains a whiteboard for every client in the game, and they exchange diffs
20100331 00:28:53< gabba> Crab_: now, an occasional check to make sure we're still in sync (otherwise re-send all planned moves) would probably be useful
20100331 00:29:04< pokhbocee> Crab_: oh :D i think its definitely required. actually its really simple for user to do it too. but depends on how good detailed interface do u want to provide
20100331 00:29:27< Crab_> pokhbocee: we want as simple as possible for the end user, but still allow customization if needed.
20100331 00:29:40< gabba> Crab_: Or, ask for a resend of planned moves if merging fails, which indicates something really went wrong on the network -- it may create a short interface lag
20100331 00:30:17< pokhbocee> Crab_: then it will be useful for us. even it is simple, i think it will help me to understand how the mechanics work better, so ill do that. 
20100331 00:30:20< Crab_> gabba: I don't like such hacks :)
20100331 00:30:47< pokhbocee> Crab_: but im not sure in which file i should implement it? one of .lua files or smth else?
20100331 00:31:03< fabi> Crab_: Let's define hooks for a wesnoth engine debugger in eclipse. Like the c++ works. Only better.
20100331 00:31:05< gabba> Crab_: it's not really a hack, all network protocols have provisions for re-sending corrupted data 
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20100331 00:31:39< Crab_> gabba: well, TCP has it due to need to compensate for networking problems
20100331 00:31:51< Crab_> gabba: but, do we really need to compensate for bugs in our code ?
20100331 00:31:55< fabi> Crab_: engine freeze at breakpoints, variable browser.
20100331 00:32:05< Crab_> gabba: isn't it better to code it without bugs in the first place :) ?
20100331 00:32:37< gabba> Crab_: agreed
20100331 00:32:55< Crab_> fabi: we already can do 'engine freeze at breakpoints' via [inspect] tag, we only need to formalize the wml call stack somehow....
20100331 00:33:11< pokhbocee> Crab_: btw i though nearest location wasnt implemented and i implemented in helper. did we need that?
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20100331 00:33:23< pokhbocee> the one that returns the location, which is nearest to the input_loc from the list
20100331 00:33:37< pokhbocee> of locations
20100331 00:33:38< Crab_> pokhbocee: the file is data/ai/lua/stdlib.lua
20100331 00:34:00< gabba> Crab_: well, if you think the lower network layers are enough to make sure the data gets there, I think my system will work as-is: simultaneous updates are not a problem since they don't affect the same data
20100331 00:34:12< fabi> Crab: Ah, so we set breakpoints by inspect tags and inspect in the game, not in eclepse's variable browser?
20100331 00:34:35< pokhbocee> Crab_: why is that file is empty? where did u implemented the other functions??
20100331 00:34:36< Crab_> fabi: yes. what we need is a way to set conditional breaks and tracing capabilities
20100331 00:34:51< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, what 'other functions' ?
20100331 00:35:27< Crab_> pokhbocee: the file is empty because high-level things are not implemented yes, and they might get implemented during the GSoC
20100331 00:35:29< fabi> Crab_: Are you sure about doing that in the game? What about stacktrace with code walkthrough.
20100331 00:35:36< pokhbocee> Crab_: functions of lua ai like attack, move or any others that r already implemented
20100331 00:35:47< Crab_> pokhbocee: they come from c++ side
20100331 00:36:46< pokhbocee> Crab_: oh i see. ok than. What about the candidate function execution/evaluation. where r they implemented? I found in one place but they seem to be stub functions
20100331 00:37:32< Crab_> pokhbocee: candidate action is a c++ interface
20100331 00:37:52< Crab_> pokhbocee: via ai/composite/engine_lua.cpp,  lua code can be a backend for candidate_action's
20100331 00:38:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, you can code candidate actions in lua
20100331 00:38:17< Crab_> and they'll be part of c++ ai turn sequence
20100331 00:38:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: ai can be extended by implementing different candidate actions
20100331 00:38:55< Crab_> pokhbocee: and those actions are to use lua ai functions
20100331 00:38:56< fabi> Crab_: The cmake eclipse export works well.
20100331 00:39:00< Crab_> fabi: thanks!
20100331 00:39:35< Crab_> gabba: ok, then, I guess that we need to somehow verify ' I think my system will work as-is: simultaneous updates are not a problem since they don't affect the same data'
20100331 00:39:40< Dakmor> I'm off for the night, I'll start writing up idea related info in the morning.
20100331 00:39:43< Dakmor> See you all
20100331 00:39:47< Crab_> Dakmor: good luck to you
20100331 00:39:50< Dakmor> And thanks for the help so far! =]
20100331 00:39:55< Dakmor> night night
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20100331 00:40:05< pokhbocee> Crab_: if they r implemented in c++ already and we can use them, do we need to implement them again?
20100331 00:40:17< Crab_> pokhbocee: no
20100331 00:40:39< Crab_> pokhbocee: but we (or the scenario editor) can think about other candidate actions which are not implemented in c++ yet.
20100331 00:41:17< Crab_> pokhbocee: e.g., scenario editor can think about implementing a variant of recruiting candidate action
20100331 00:41:29< Crab_> pokhbocee: and he can do it in lua or in formula ai
20100331 00:41:43< Crab_> pokhbocee: and we need to make it easier to write it in lua
20100331 00:42:13< Crab_> gabba: can you code a prototype of the merge algorithm, in any language that you know, such as in c++ ?
20100331 00:43:25< Crab_> gabba: just out-of-wesnoth implementation of the merge, which takes the 'old vector, diff received, anything else you need', and does the merge
20100331 00:43:36< pokhbocee> Crab_: do we need a function for nearest location in lua?
20100331 00:43:38< Crab_> gabba: if it's coded in c++, you'll be able to reuse it.
20100331 00:44:08< Crab_> pokhbocee: usually, yes, many variants of nearest_location are needed
20100331 00:44:51< Crab_> pokhbocee: e.g. 'location, selected from available moves of unit A, which is nearest by pathfinding of unit A, to location B'
20100331 00:45:01< gabba> Crab_: yes (not sure if in time for april 9 though), but that's not related to simultaneous updates
20100331 00:45:06-!- meric [~Eric@124-171-18-219.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: meric]
20100331 00:45:38< Crab_> gabba: well, if we had such an algorithm, we'd be able to test if it stays in sync
20100331 00:45:40< awilkins> Hello Wesnoth-dev channel. I'm Andrew, a student interested in the Google Summer of Code program. Just thought I'd check in.
20100331 00:46:01< gabba> hello awilkins
20100331 00:46:05< Crab_> hello, awilkins. it's good to see you 
20100331 00:46:24< mordante> hi awilkins 
20100331 00:46:38< Crab_> awilkins: have you picked a project that interests you? or,are there any questions that you want to ask ?
20100331 00:46:48< pokhbocee> Crab_: i have implemented that in helper.
20100331 00:47:00< gabba> Crab_: rather, you'll be able to see if I can code a merge algorithm that works at all :P
20100331 00:47:14< Crab_> gabba: heh. well, I expect it to work.
20100331 00:47:27< pokhbocee> Crab_: is it the correct file to implement it? and how i can test it
20100331 00:48:21< gabba> Crab_: but supposing it works, it's impossible to receive updates aimed at the same vector of planned objects from two different sources
20100331 00:48:23< Crab_> gabba: I am eager to see how stable it'll be for multiple (say, 1000) players who, at the same time, semi-randomly update their planned actions on a continuous basis :)
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20100331 00:48:31< awilkins> Crab_: I was interested in the WML debugger project. 
20100331 00:48:57< Crab_> awilkins: have you, by chance, used WML before ?
20100331 00:49:39< awilkins> Crab_: sadly no, I'm looking into that now, but I'm very familiar with XML and the concept seems similar.
20100331 00:50:09< gabba> Crab_: more or less the same as 1000 players semi-randomly sending chat messages to each other on a continuous basis, except with a little more overhead on the client
20100331 00:50:10< Crab_> awilkins: then, think, the first thing (apart from checking out the source/compiling), would be trying to look at complex wml and try to fix some things or improve some things
20100331 00:50:37< Crab_> gabba: yes, good analogy
20100331 00:50:45< mordante> I'm off night
20100331 00:51:14< gabba> Crab_: I don't really understand what's your concern here, because let's say you receive 5 updates "at the same time": they'll still be in some order in the network buffer
20100331 00:51:44< gabba> Crab_: for instance, updates for B, C, B, B, D 
20100331 00:52:03< awilkins> Crab_: Thanks, I'll be sure to try that.
20100331 00:52:19< Crab_> awilkins: that's to find out firsthand why debugging wml is hard.
20100331 00:52:35< Crab_> awilkins: ask zookeeper for suitable task, or hunt through the bug list
20100331 00:53:06< mordante> I'm off night
20100331 00:53:07< Crab_> gabba: by 'at the same time' I mean 'amendments make to local data by different players before things are synced
20100331 00:53:44< gabba> Crab_: so just apply the diffs in the order they are in the buffer -- if each diff does a correct job, no problem will happen
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20100331 00:54:13< gabba> 'amendments make to local data by different players before things are synced': I don't see a use case where that could happen
20100331 00:55:48< awilkins> Crab_: will zookeeper be in this channel later?
20100331 00:55:58< gabba> Crab_: if you mean, A changes planned moves, B changes planned moves, both send updates at the same time, they both receive the packet updates at some point and update their display accordingly
20100331 00:56:12< Crab_> awilkins: see the irclogs for his usual times
20100331 00:56:33< gabba> Crab_: I don't plan to have any interactions between the planned moves or A and B, so they can each sync on their own timeframe without problem
20100331 00:56:42< gabba> Crab_: S/or/of
20100331 00:56:46< Crab_> gabba: what about suggesting moves ?
20100331 00:57:46< gabba> Crab_: we did talk about that, but both the interface and the backend are a can of worms, so I'd rather stay away
20100331 00:58:20< Crab_> ok
20100331 00:58:34< pokhbocee> Crab_: i have implemented nearest location in helper.lua. Im not sure its the correct file. how can I test the function??
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20100331 00:58:47< gabba> Crab_: I mean, it would be a very nice feature, but look at the increase in complexity it would incur
20100331 00:58:48< Crab_> gabba: so, 'let each player plan things for his own units' ?
20100331 00:59:07< gabba> Crab_: yeah, basically, I think it's reasonable
20100331 00:59:27< Crab_> gabba: that's fair game, yes, as you'll have lots of gui2 work to do even without it....
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20100331 01:00:11< Crab_> pokhbocee: you can modify the sample ai config in the test scenario to use it
20100331 01:00:41< Crab_> pokhbocee: e.g., kill all candidate actions in there, leave only a stage, for simlicity, and change this stage to use this function, say, for a move.
20100331 01:01:17< pokhbocee> Crab_: ill try that now, btw how can i learn the side of current team, or whoever calls the function,
20100331 01:01:23< Crab_> gabba: what if unit changes side in the middle of turn ?
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20100331 01:02:12< Crab_> pokhbocee: see how ai.say_hello does that - it uses ai.side
20100331 01:02:30< Crab_> pokhbocee: (which is set by c++ on creation of the engine)
20100331 01:02:33< pokhbocee> Crab_: oh i see that :D ty.
20100331 01:03:09< Crab_> gabba: ok, then, no need for prototypes, since you're limited the merge to a simpler non-overlapping case
20100331 01:03:15< gabba> Crab_: one more case to add to validation of remaining planned moves after a WML event -- which is the only thing that can make a unit change side?
20100331 01:03:18< Crab_> gabba: just be sure to handle weird cases:)
20100331 01:03:30< Crab_> gabba: yes
20100331 01:03:45< Crab_> gabba: so, 'merge,validate'
20100331 01:04:52< Crab_> hi, lfernando
20100331 01:05:12< gabba> Crab_: maybe rather 'update game state, validate, send planned moves with "valid" state as part of the changes in the diff'
20100331 01:05:14< lfernando> hey =)
20100331 01:05:19< gabba> Crab_: clients just merge
20100331 01:05:30< awilkins> Crab_: Okay looked at the logs. I'll be sure to message him when I see him. Thanks for your help : )
20100331 01:05:37< Crab_> awilkins: :)
20100331 01:05:59-!- pokhbocee [~ebo@ws40.cs.drexel.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20100331 01:06:10< Crab_> awilkins: you need to see how WML is used to develop UMC,and why the preferred method of debugging is 'remove half of it, see if things unbreak,repeat' :)
20100331 01:06:43< Crab_> awilkins: see http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14859 :)
20100331 01:07:42< awilkins> Crab_: Hah, I was actually just looking at that haha.
20100331 01:07:56< Crab_> awilkins: also see how :inspect dialog (in debug mode) works
20100331 01:08:16< Crab_> awilkins: if you're thinking about in-game debugger, you can base on it.
20100331 01:09:18< Crab_> gabba: ok
20100331 01:11:07< Crab_> gabba: what do you plan to do to further improve your whiteboard proposal ?
20100331 01:11:40< Crab_> gabba: (except minor fixes such as 'add validation after the merge')
20100331 01:11:52< gabba> Crab_: correct a bit the sequence diagram ^
20100331 01:12:16< Crab_> gabba: and, we'll need to either validate on all client, or allow to sync merge conflicts
20100331 01:12:26< Crab_> gabba: since, we need to display merge conflicts on each client
20100331 01:12:45< gabba> Crab_: re-read it to see if it can be read in a continous flow without a headache (answer: no, I need to write up a bit more and like ideas)
20100331 01:13:16< Crab_> gabba: so, we need either to validate locally to see if anything bad is present, or send conflicts from the initial validation to other players to display...
20100331 01:13:51< Crab_> ok, that 'reread,fi' shouldn't take look long, yes ?
20100331 01:13:54< Crab_> *fix
20100331 01:14:04< ilor> Ivanovic: I'm awfully busy lately, just remembered your message about the translation list email...
20100331 01:14:04< gabba> Crab_: "sync merge conflicts" == send planned moves with "valid" state as part of the changes in the diff
20100331 01:14:18< ilor> I'll just commit a change that should simplify things
20100331 01:14:33< Crab_> gabba: but we need to get invalid moves, as well
20100331 01:14:39< gabba> Crab_: wasn't planning to do it today, but I might as well
20100331 01:14:41< Crab_> gabba: since we need to display them...
20100331 01:14:57< Crab_> gabba: no need to do it today, just wondering 'what to do next ?'
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20100331 01:16:22< gabba> Crab_: well to recapitulate, each client checks invalidity for his own planned moves, marks them as invalid, and transmits the invalidity as part of the diff
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20100331 01:16:53< Crab_> gabba: note that moves of player A can make moves of player B invalid
20100331 01:17:01< gabba> Crab_:  remember, there can't be real merge conflicts between planned moves themselves, as updates can come from one and only one source
20100331 01:17:23< gabba> Crab_: from my proposal: "We may or may not elect to detect conflict between player B's moves and player A's planned moves (actually, it's more complicated and probably not necessary.) "
20100331 01:17:42< Crab_> gabba: well, what's the complication with this ?
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20100331 01:18:29< gabba> Crab_: interface complication mainly, I think
20100331 01:18:48< gabba> Crab_: we allow a player's moves to conflict with his own, so why not with his allies'
20100331 01:18:52< gabba> ?
20100331 01:19:33< gabba> Crab_: if I want to send my 20 walking corpses to attack the same paladin as you I should be able to
20100331 01:19:45< gabba> Crab_: from the same spot ;)
20100331 01:19:49< Crab_> gabba: well, if you simply mark conflicting moves with, say, a 'circle' or a different color of arrow...
20100331 01:19:55< gabba> Crab_: without the interface screaming at me
20100331 01:20:05< Crab_> gabba: just to bring attention
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20100331 01:20:55< gabba> Crab_: yes, but then we need to differentiate "impossible" moves from "possibly hindered by own or allied unit" --> interface complication
20100331 01:21:19< CIA-64> ilor * r41905 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: change 'auth command' string to 'admin command' which it really is anyway
20100331 01:21:44< Crab_> gabba: I think that this feature is important enough for usability to have it
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20100331 01:22:57< CIA-64> ilor * r41906 /branches/1.8/src/menu_events.cpp: change 'auth command' string to 'admin command' which it really is anyway
20100331 01:23:16< gabba> Crab_: I'm not doing an interface mockup for that :P
20100331 01:23:26< Crab_> gabba: well, no need to do that now :)
20100331 01:23:53< Crab_> gabba: just noting that all planned moves which are 'not ok to do' should be marked
20100331 01:24:33< Crab_> gabba: since you'd have to select the 'unit shadow' to draw in target hex anyway....
20100331 01:25:03< Crab_> gabba: it should be pretty easy to detect 'hey, you try to move to the same hex as your ally, potential conflict' situation.
20100331 01:25:20< gabba> Crab_: but the way to do it would be "when checking valid moves, each player takes into account the planned moves of the players playing before him" I think
20100331 01:25:30< Crab_> yes
20100331 01:25:54< gabba> Crab_: or even all moves, it's a design choice
20100331 01:26:13< Crab_> 'of all moves', I think
20100331 01:26:52< gabba> Well, to come back to the "what's next" topic, what do you think of my proposal as a whole?
20100331 01:28:04< Crab_> gabba: the proposal itself is good and interesting, and will provide clear and visible benefit for wesnoth community, *if* selected for GSoC and successfully implemented.
20100331 01:28:52< gabba> Crab_: I'm aware of the two *if*s, don't worry
20100331 01:29:18< gabba> Crab_: but the document itself, any gaping hole, serious readability issue?
20100331 01:29:21< Crab_> gabba: good :) so, I think that a good thing to have would be to provide a timeline or a dependency graph of all things that are needed to be done to complete it, and all things which are optional side-tracks
20100331 01:31:58< Crab_> gabba: also note that in addition to ZoC, other views like 'best possible moves' are available, and they need to work with the 'fake potential unit map', as well
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20100331 01:33:17< gabba> Crab_: right, actually there's no ZoC view proper isn't it, you see it through the 'show enemy moves' view (ctrl+v)
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20100331 01:33:31< gabba> Crab_: "best enemy moves" stays unchanged
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20100331 01:35:18< Crab_> gabba: overall, the two areas that I think need the most improvement in your proposal are 1) a work plan - list of small tasks to do to complete the projects, with a approximate timeline.    2)some proof-of-concept code to see if you're able to tackle some difficult things, engine-side (merge algorithm?) and gui-side (code a lua or formula function to draw an arrow from location A to location B ?)
20100331 01:35:19-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit [Client Quit]
20100331 01:36:17< Crab_> gabba: but the proposal itself is good :)
20100331 01:36:28< gabba> Crab_: I hesitate in going all the way and doing a "ticket list" or "specs list" as you did at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab#Goals
20100331 01:36:49< gabba> Crab_: as opposed to just a linear task list with time estimates
20100331 01:37:05< Crab_> gabba: well, the form is secondary to content :)
20100331 01:37:17< Crab_> gabba: so, a linear task list is ok
20100331 01:37:51< Crab_> gabba: and, coding something towards your proposal, gui-side and engine-side, will be a good thing, too.
20100331 01:38:48< Crab_> e.g., code an arrow from A to B - it'll be fun to play with it to see how the screen would look like
20100331 01:39:09< Crab_> gabba: extra points if you add a way to make it animated :)
20100331 01:39:28< Crab_> e.g., 'arrow' growing from A until it reaches B
20100331 01:41:34< gabba> Crab_: I kind of envy GSoC students who already did their finals... I understand the concept code would help, but I'm running extremely short on time
20100331 01:43:17< gabba> Crab_: As far as being able to tackle difficult things, I'll try to upload some stuff I've coded up for school recently (funnily enough, one of them is a self-extending Eclipse plugin, I was even tempted to tackle that proposal too)
20100331 01:43:58< Crab_> gabba: good. so, yes, you're right, the concept code (esp. work with wesnoth's GUI) would help.
20100331 01:44:22< Crab_> gabba: but upload what you have, that'll be a plus, too
20100331 01:45:53< gabba> Crab_: ok, so I've got my task list all set then
20100331 01:45:53< Crab_> gabba: and, as the core and limits of your proposal were somewhat discussed, it's better to concentrate on polishing your proposal, adding tasklist+timeline, adding examples of code.
20100331 01:46:18< gabba> Crab_: gotta leave now, thanks for you advice and time (as usual ;) )
20100331 01:46:25< Crab_> bye
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20100331 01:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.0 tagged, announcing on April 1st | 75 bugs, 256 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100331 02:00:57< pokhbocee> Crab_: the sample ai config for test mehod is data/ai/ais/testing_ai_default.cfg or data/ai/scenarios/scenario-test_move_to_targets.cfg  ??
20100331 02:01:25< pokhbocee> not "test method" but for testing
20100331 02:01:35< Crab_> data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg, or make your own
20100331 02:01:37< pokhbocee> sorry for the typing mistake
20100331 02:01:55< pokhbocee> oh but how im gonna run it?
20100331 02:02:01< pokhbocee> by chosing default ai?
20100331 02:02:08< Crab_> those are test scenarios
20100331 02:02:22< Crab_> ./wesnoth -t your_test_scenario_id -d
20100331 02:02:41< pokhbocee> oh got it ty so much
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20100331 02:10:57< Crab_> alexandr: your wiki page is currently not matching our template (has no student template, no category, no =Description=<h4>header</h4>  and no =Irc= sections). if this is intended till the page is ready, ok, if it's not, ping and I'll fix it.
20100331 02:13:03< heltonduarte> the "Port Wesnoth input framework to a more flexible system" idea is basically changing the GUI system in SDL?
20100331 02:14:14< ilor> that's a "I'll do things!" idea
20100331 02:14:31< Crab_> heltonduarte: mordante is the best person to ask about this ;)
20100331 02:15:38< heltonduarte> Crab_: ok, but he isn't on, is he?
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20100331 02:15:49< Crab_> wesbot: seen mordante
20100331 02:15:50< wesbot> Crab_: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1h 22m ago.  1h 22m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20100331 02:16:09< ilor> gah, nevermind me, I should be asleep now
20100331 02:16:11< Crab_> heltonduarte: as you see, try tomorrow, but earlier
20100331 02:16:20< heltonduarte> ok, thanks
20100331 02:17:03< ilor> heltonduarte: mordante also reads the logs so if you have a question you can ask it here and check the logs yourself later
20100331 02:17:10< ilor> if it's a simple one ;)
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20100331 02:40:05< fabi> AI0867, have you talked to timotei21 about the integration of your wmlvalidator into the eclipse plugin?
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20100331 03:14:22< heltonduarte> downloading Wesnoth source code...now I can have a better idea to GSoC project... XD
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20100331 03:24:29< AI0867> fabi: no
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20100331 04:42:34< shadowmaster> fabi: did you ever try the lightred and darkred color ranges against a good reference image (e.g. the magenta watch)?
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20100331 04:53:09-!- Guest67769 is now known as RandomDragon
20100331 04:54:14< RandomDragon> hello
20100331 04:55:37< endercoaster> Hi RandomDragon
20100331 04:56:26< RandomDragon> how is everyone doing this evening?
20100331 04:56:36< shadowmaster> I'm seeing blue.
20100331 04:56:42< shadowmaster> I must have eaten something bad.
20100331 04:57:13< RandomDragon> also, I'm ashamed to say it, but this is my first time on IRC....  Spent years on msn, aim, skype, etc, but never in chat rooms...
20100331 04:57:22< RandomDragon> awww, that sucks
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20100331 04:57:58< shadowmaster> do you think you could turn off your formatting? your client is marking your lines blue
20100331 04:58:14< RandomDragon> sure, one sec
20100331 04:58:34< RandomDragon> that better?
20100331 04:58:38< RandomDragon> nope, wait
20100331 04:58:38< RandomDragon> lol
20100331 04:59:33< RandomDragon> okay
20100331 04:59:39< shadowmaster> no, still red.
20100331 05:00:29< RandomDragon> that's what's so odd
20100331 05:00:29< RandomDragon> I'm setting it to black
20100331 05:00:29< RandomDragon> not red
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20100331 05:00:42< RandomDragon> I'm on Trillian Astra, if that makes any difference
20100331 05:01:00< RandomDragon> also, it now looks black on my screen.... black for you?
20100331 05:01:03< shadowmaster> nah, your last lines are okay.
20100331 05:01:09< RandomDragon> kk, cool
20100331 05:01:53< endercoaster> Black for me, but I'm on empathy
20100331 05:02:14-!- teaser [~teaser@h-37-106.A254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100331 05:03:07< RandomDragon> so my C# teacher told our class about the Google Summer of Code program thingy
20100331 05:03:23-!- teaser [~teaser@h-37-106.A254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 05:03:29< RandomDragon> and I found Wesnoth on the list of organizations and it looked pretty cool
20100331 05:03:49< RandomDragon> I downloaded the game to see what it was like as "research" :P
20100331 05:05:19< shadowmaster> noting that C++ and C# are very different if you can forget the grammar and syntax for a while.
20100331 05:05:24< shadowmaster> ;)
20100331 05:05:54< RandomDragon> true
20100331 05:06:29< RandomDragon> I took C++ last year
20100331 05:06:45< endercoaster> shadowmaster: Can you mark my forum account as a GSoC Student account?
20100331 05:06:48< RandomDragon> and also PHP, MySQL, and visual basic
20100331 05:07:16< Upthorn> RandomDragon: trillian is not the best client for IRC
20100331 05:07:28< RandomDragon> so it seems
20100331 05:07:48< RandomDragon> what would you suggest as a lightweight client to run along side it?
20100331 05:08:00< shadowmaster> endercoaster: you've already posted your proposal in the wiki I guess?
20100331 05:08:02< Upthorn> if you use firefox, you can get chatzilla
20100331 05:08:02< RandomDragon> for Windows at the moment...
20100331 05:08:20< endercoaster> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC:_Endercoaster
20100331 05:08:31< Upthorn> which works pretty well if you do not need any particular special features.
20100331 05:09:03< Upthorn> mIRC is the de facto standard windows client, but am not certain I would describe it as lightweight
20100331 05:09:13< shadowmaster> Upthorn: and it is not free
20100331 05:09:27< Upthorn> well, it is free, it just nags you after 30 days.
20100331 05:09:28< RandomDragon> chatzilla eh?
20100331 05:09:32< RandomDragon> rotfl
20100331 05:09:34< endercoaster> I've had good experience with IRC on pidgin
20100331 05:09:46< shadowmaster> endercoaster: done
20100331 05:09:54< endercoaster> shadowmaster: thanks
20100331 05:10:14< Upthorn> chatzilla is a javascript IRC client that is integrated into a number of mozilla products
20100331 05:10:24< RandomDragon> just wondering though, but what are some of the differences between chatzilla and trillian?
20100331 05:10:26< shadowmaster> Upthorn: shareware, which nags you after 30 days...and I don't like being nagged by a pitiful piece of software which I could easily replace with telnet or such, y'know ;)
20100331 05:10:28< ancestral> Haha: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29373
20100331 05:10:29< RandomDragon> I mean, isn't this just text?
20100331 05:10:41< shadowmaster> RandomDragon: chatzilla is a dedicated mini-IRC client
20100331 05:10:55< shadowmaster> trillian is a multiprotocol instant messaging application that happens to support IRC.
20100331 05:10:56< Upthorn> RandomDragon: well, trillian versions before astra have had tons of issues with their implementation of the IRC protocol
20100331 05:11:13< RandomDragon> okay.... but I can chat with you, so therefor it works, right?
20100331 05:11:17< shadowmaster> yes
20100331 05:11:27< RandomDragon> I mean, it's not like MSN, where they have voice and stuff too
20100331 05:11:36< Upthorn> I do not know if they persist, but they have ranged from applying default IM formatting to all messages (a huge faux pas), failing to register server disconnection
20100331 05:11:49< Upthorn> err, that comma should be a "to"
20100331 05:12:01< RandomDragon> so there isn't any need for me to change?
20100331 05:12:11< RandomDragon> ahh, yes, I did notice the blue text
20100331 05:12:19< shadowmaster> RandomDragon: maybe if you become another IRC adept ;)
20100331 05:12:35< Upthorn> if your text is blue the next time you join, I will recommend switching clients
20100331 05:12:37< shadowmaster> you'll know when you start to want a real IRC client
20100331 05:12:47< Upthorn> or if you experience any kind of bug with trillian's IRC handling.
20100331 05:12:57< Upthorn> until then it seems like you might be fine.
20100331 05:13:25< endercoaster> ancestral: Does Wesnoth's license even allow her to do that?
20100331 05:13:50< RandomDragon> right now the only thing I have a problem with is the list of users is stuck on the right side of the window and I want it on the left side...  But I can close it, so that works too I suppose
20100331 05:14:22< shadowmaster> it's generally agreed that Pidgin's IRC support, being hacked into a IM multiprotocol app, sucks. From the point of view of chanops and other hardcore IRC users, anyway. Newbies should generally have no problem.
20100331 05:14:53< ancestral> endercoaster: Allow what?
20100331 05:15:18< Upthorn> ancestral: presumably the forum post you linked about 4 minutes ago.
20100331 05:15:22< RandomDragon> why are you guys typing each others names before saying stuff?
20100331 05:15:23< ancestral> Sure
20100331 05:15:32< endercoaster> ancestral: Modding Wesnoth for a for-profit project?
20100331 05:15:34< ancestral> There's nothing wrong ethically with that
20100331 05:15:41< ancestral> The code is GPL
20100331 05:15:43< shadowmaster> RandomDragon: to highlight the target and keep their attention
20100331 05:15:47< ancestral> If it's licensed properly
20100331 05:15:48< endercoaster> mmhmm
20100331 05:15:50< ancestral> But
20100331 05:15:58< ancestral> 1 post
20100331 05:16:03< ancestral> and C++ makes his head hurt
20100331 05:16:12< shadowmaster> RandomDragon: "foobar: blahblah" means I'm talking specifically to "foobar", which is particularly important to make clear in channels with more than two users
20100331 05:16:27< shadowmaster> *make clear who I'm talking to in channels with more than two users talking to each other
20100331 05:16:34< ancestral> And s/he thinks s/he can get a team of people just by making a forum post… heh
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20100331 05:18:08< RandomDragon> I see, I see
20100331 05:23:35< RandomDragon> are there any specific regions of the world that are more common here?  Or less common...  Like mostly North America, or Europe, or something?
20100331 05:23:36< Upthorn> I have made a discouraging reply to the above forum post.
20100331 05:24:34< Upthorn> RandomDragon: probably, but I do not know if anyone knows them offhand.
20100331 05:25:04< RandomDragon> Upthorn: Thanks.
20100331 05:26:05< Upthorn> of course, I am fairly new here myself (I am a prospective summer of code student, as I assume you are), so I am uninformed
20100331 05:26:58< RandomDragon> ahhh, right right
20100331 05:27:04< RandomDragon> where abouts are you located?
20100331 05:27:06< shadowmaster> RandomDragon: many devs are from Europe
20100331 05:27:25< RandomDragon> ahhh, so about 8 hours off of my timezone
20100331 05:27:45< RandomDragon> I'm just north of San Francisco, in California, USA
20100331 05:28:09< Upth> I'm just west of Sacramento
20100331 05:28:17< RandomDragon> ohhh, nice
20100331 05:28:44< RandomDragon> going to a university I might have heard of? ;)
20100331 05:29:00< Upth> sac city.
20100331 05:29:13< RandomDragon> fun times. :-)
20100331 05:29:41< RandomDragon> I'm ending my second year at Santa Rosa Junior college, and transfering to Sonoma State, starting that in the fall
20100331 05:29:43 * Upth 7th year sophomore in community college.
20100331 05:29:49< RandomDragon> hehe
20100331 05:29:55 * Upth is upthorn's desktop by the way
20100331 05:30:26< RandomDragon> well, I also have a bit more in the way of credits then my two years would imply, as I'll have 90 units at the end of this semester
20100331 05:31:08< RandomDragon> the result of packing in 26 units last spring, and 25 in the fall, as well as full loads in the other semesters :D
20100331 05:31:17< Upth> I'm in the opposite situatione. I have been in community college for 7 years (though technically I've only enrolled in 10 semesters), and have about 30 credits.
20100331 05:31:26< RandomDragon> oh, wow
20100331 05:31:41< RandomDragon> that's... one class per semester?
20100331 05:32:09< Upth> roughly. Actually the first several semesters didn't work out and have brough my average down
20100331 05:32:24< RandomDragon> I see, I see
20100331 05:32:30< RandomDragon> that sucks
20100331 05:32:47< RandomDragon> the art class I had to take last semester is what brought my average down
20100331 05:32:57< RandomDragon> I'm more logical then artistic... :-/
20100331 05:34:18< Upth> I started college because I was expected to do so after high school, and was not really prepared for the level of responsibility that was expected. And I was distracted for the first several semesters by a social life that far surpassed anything I'd ever had before
20100331 05:34:27< RandomDragon> wow, that was spooky.... just now I got an email from my old film history teacher (the art class I was talking about) sent to all his old students
20100331 05:34:51< RandomDragon> ahhhh, yeah, I started college because I didn't really have anything else to do
20100331 05:35:32< Upth> So I was just kind of there, enrolled in classes but not really going to them, and without any sort of higher plan for what classes I should be taking in what order
20100331 05:35:56< RandomDragon> no social life, living with my parents, and not really spending any money because I'm fickle, so I was only spending like 5% of my income from the job I had, and it was rather dull, so I started going to college
20100331 05:36:30< Upth> on the up side, I've learned Japanese, Korean, and Mandarin. On the down side, I still have a minimum of two more years if I want to graduate with any degree.
20100331 05:37:00< Upth> but if I organize myself, I might be able to double-degree without too much trouble.
20100331 05:37:10< RandomDragon> heh
20100331 05:37:26< RandomDragon> as it happens, I'm also a minimum of two years to graduate
20100331 05:37:43< RandomDragon> with a BSc that is
20100331 05:37:52< RandomDragon> *shrug*
20100331 05:39:17< Upth> in two years (and an accepted transfer), I could graduate with a linguistics degree. In three years, I could graduate with a simultaneous BS in Computer Science and BA in Linguistics. So that is my current aim.
20100331 05:39:27< RandomDragon> What languages are mainly used for Wesnoth?
20100331 05:39:46< RandomDragon> ahhh, nice
20100331 05:40:08< Upth> the game itself is written in C++, and provides Lua and WML for scripting support.
20100331 05:40:21< RandomDragon> yeah, when I first started, I was just thinking I would get a couple of certificates, so I didn't take any math or GE classes
20100331 05:40:43< Upth> Lua is one of a number of standard somewhat C-like scripting languages, and WML is a custom language that is based off of XML.
20100331 05:40:47< RandomDragon> while I have a ton of units in CS classes, I'm a lot behind in everything else, which is why I'll be graduating with a ton of classes
20100331 05:41:06< RandomDragon> humm, I have heard of Lua before, but I haven't really learned anything about it
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20100331 05:42:45< Upth> it is pretty simple to learn
20100331 05:43:03< Upth> I think of it as somewhere in-between python and C++
20100331 05:43:45< RandomDragon> cool cool
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20100331 06:01:53< RandomDragon> for that questionaire thingy, we just put that into the wiki page we are supposed to make, right?
20100331 06:02:29< Bdorf> yep
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20100331 06:03:12< Bdorf> provide the h4 tags to create the table of contents
20100331 06:04:12< RandomDragon> kk
20100331 06:04:27< RandomDragon> for each question? or just for the main groups?
20100331 06:05:36< Bdorf> for each question. that way the table of contents indexes each question and can be easily jumped to.
20100331 06:06:43< RandomDragon> no easy way to wrap text with H4 tags, other then just typing it in?
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20100331 06:08:39< Bdorf> seems to be the case since the questionaire does not automatically provide them. simple to add though
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20100331 07:39:59< pokhbocee> guys does anybody know that is it possible to compile-install just a portion of the whole project
20100331 07:40:28< pokhbocee> i am trying to test some functions. but after each change i have to compile and install whole project
20100331 07:40:35-!- ilor [~ilor@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20100331 07:40:50< pokhbocee> to run the test with recent changes
20100331 07:41:13< pokhbocee> can anybody help about this issue?
20100331 07:43:06< pokhbocee> Crab_: is there a shorter way than compile-install whole project. actually i have tried only compiling, since it takes much shorter than installing. But it didnt work. only after i install whole project again, it runs my modified test file.
20100331 07:43:35< pokhbocee> Crab_: btw i created my own test file but game doesnt cannot find it. do I need to add it to a list or something?
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20100331 08:53:37< Shuger> hi
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20100331 09:01:10< pokhbocee> hey
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20100331 09:22:26< Crab__> pokhbocee: 1) you don't have to install, only compile 2) see data/_main.cfg - if you make a new test scenario, you might need to add it there
20100331 09:23:05< Crab__> just make sure that you're using the 'data' folder in your checkout directory as data dir, and that your library path is set correctly.
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20100331 09:28:09< pokhbocee> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100331 09:28:09< wesbot> pokhbocee: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 7h 11m ago.  7h 10m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100331 09:28:17< pokhbocee> wesbot: seen Crab__
20100331 09:28:17< wesbot> pokhbocee: The person with the nick Crab__ last spoke 5m 12s ago.  4m 55s ago they left with the message: Client Quit
20100331 09:31:11< pokhbocee> Crab_:  second problem is solved. but first one is still onsolved. it doesnt work without running "make install"
20100331 09:31:55< pokhbocee> Crab_: when i just run make, it runs the old test method not the modified one
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20100331 09:34:47< Crab__> pokhbocee: try running in debug mode (-d), to make sure that the cache is regenerated, also, make sure that correct data directory is used
20100331 09:35:01< Crab__> try "./wesnoth -t your_scenario_id -d ." (note the dot at the end)
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20100331 09:35:20< pokhbocee> hey
20100331 09:35:33< pokhbocee> yes it works
20100331 09:35:56< pokhbocee> oh a sec pls/
20100331 09:36:20< pokhbocee> yes i already run it in debug mode
20100331 09:37:59< pokhbocee> i compile it with autotools, maybe autotools' compilation is not enough for running
20100331 09:38:57< pokhbocee> Crab__: btw i have implemented close_enemies. i have few syntax mistakes im testing those but it takes so long..
20100331 09:43:15< Crab__> well, it should be fast if you use only lua. ideally, you don't have to restart wesnoth to see your changes
20100331 09:43:45< pokhbocee> but i couldnt figure out another way
20100331 09:44:00< pokhbocee> i just do the autotools 
20100331 09:44:22< pokhbocee> now i have tried cmake, hoping it could be faster but its not
20100331 09:48:35< Crab__> I use scons :)
20100331 09:48:51< pokhbocee> is it faster??
20100331 09:50:39< Crab__> well, it works for me, both on linux and freebsd :)
20100331 09:50:53< pokhbocee> hmm now im trying that
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20100331 09:55:13< pokhbocee> how can i set the path that i install the scons?
20100331 09:55:39< pokhbocee> its done by $ python setup.py install
20100331 09:58:11< pokhbocee> ok i got it :D 
20100331 09:58:14< pokhbocee> ty anyway
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20100331 10:16:12< timotei21> morning everyone
20100331 10:16:18< pokhbocee> morning
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20100331 11:07:24< mordante> servus
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20100331 11:12:30< Ivanovic> moin
20100331 11:12:46< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20100331 11:27:01< timotei21> hey mordante
20100331 11:27:04< timotei21> I've got an issue
20100331 11:27:12< timotei21> with vs 2008 building wesnoth
20100331 11:27:25< timotei21> yesterday it worked, but now, I get some errors regarding gui2
20100331 11:28:34< mordante> hi timotei21 
20100331 11:28:46< timotei21> I'll post some of my errors
20100331 11:30:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!]
20100331 11:36:02< fabi> YoggiHH: You can't honestly wish to support that silly fork thread, shame on you! http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=418584#p418584
20100331 11:36:26< timotei21> hey fabi, if you have some time
20100331 11:36:31< timotei21> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerofCode_Timotei21
20100331 11:36:40< timotei21> I've reworked since last time
20100331 11:39:16< fabi> timotei21: I have read that page some ~10 hours ago. Has it changed since then?
20100331 11:39:29< timotei21> no
20100331 11:40:07< fabi> timotei21: Have you considered using wmlvalidator in the builder class?
20100331 11:41:13< fabi> fabi: Do you have already a  patch or some code to show ready?
20100331 11:41:30< fabi> Oh, I talk to myself.
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20100331 11:42:33< fabi> timotei21: About the wiki page, it is fine. I believe that plan/timeline could work. 
20100331 11:43:04< fabi> What I miss is some planning about the macro issue. 
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20100331 11:43:45< fabi> timotei21: Are you still around?
20100331 11:44:32< loonycyborg> mordante: Do you know much about the test suite? That is about part of it that causes bug #15717.
20100331 11:47:33< mordante> loonycyborg, not very much and according to boost nothing changed for 1.42...
20100331 11:47:53< timotei21> srry, had to take out the trash
20100331 11:48:01< loonycyborg> Indeed. That particular place seems to poke into internals.
20100331 11:49:03< loonycyborg> It throws boost::execution_exception and what args its constructor should take isn't specified in the documentation.
20100331 11:49:18< timotei21> well, fabi, I haven't checked yet the wmlvalidator, but I
20100331 11:49:25< timotei21> I will check it today
20100331 11:49:39< timotei21> and the other wml* tools in data/tools
20100331 11:49:46< fabi> timotei21, Please talk to AI0867 about it. 
20100331 11:49:53< timotei21> ok
20100331 11:50:06< fabi> timotei21, Do you have some time to discuss a few things?
20100331 11:50:17< timotei21> and about the macros, I'm gonna elaborate it more
20100331 11:50:20< timotei21> yes, of course
20100331 11:50:43< fabi> I once searched all the python tools for writing an external wml interpreter.
20100331 11:51:11< fabi> I have discovered a wml library in python that does macro expansion. That may come in handy at some point.
20100331 11:51:25< timotei21> yes
20100331 11:52:22< fabi> Maybe you don't want to use it in a whole but somewhere you need to build a environment that contains the macros that have been defined at a certain point. That code must be somewhere inside that lib.
20100331 11:53:12< mordante> timotei21, did you already paste something?
20100331 11:53:38< fabi> timotei21: I would like to talk you into a small step of the project that would show us some code from you.
20100331 11:53:55< timotei21> well, mordante, I've added a command line argument, and it seems no more crash  - and it's stil building
20100331 11:54:35< fabi> It was the last thing I have worked on in the branch before you took over.
20100331 11:54:51< timotei21> There was only a warning saying about a conflict, and lucky me, I've seen it - it should be error not warning
20100331 11:55:39< timotei21> well, I didn't submit any patch yet, nor have commit access  - so I haven't modified anything in the branch
20100331 11:56:08< timotei21> well, let's see, what should I try to prototype, so you can see how I work, and how I will solve the problem
20100331 11:56:18< fabi> WmlTagWizardPage.java
20100331 11:56:23< fabi> That class is a stub
20100331 11:56:38< fabi> It is the second stage in a Wizard.
20100331 11:57:13< fabi> It shall display a wizard for every wml tag that one can think of.
20100331 11:58:16< fabi> Complete it and use it to complete the scenario and campaign wizard (single player campaign). You asked in the first step about filenames, that is already there. 
20100331 11:59:08< fabi> Then you open the  WmlTagWizardPage for the [scenario] tag and collect the data.
20100331 11:59:40< fabi> Understood?
20100331 12:00:09< timotei21> ok
20100331 12:00:48< timotei21> I have to create WmlTagWizardPage right? cause I don't see it
20100331 12:01:18< fabi> The campaign wizard is more tricky. It involves the creation of a directory tree.
20100331 12:01:20< timotei21> since you told me it's a stub, I thought it's already "there", and just does nothing
20100331 12:01:43< timotei21> ok
20100331 12:01:46< fabi> timotei21, right I forgot to commit it? Do you want me to commit the stub?
20100331 12:02:06< timotei21> just if you want
20100331 12:02:12< timotei21> :P
20100331 12:02:30< timotei21> first I'm trying to fix subeclipse, cause it's not working
20100331 12:02:54< CIA-64> fendrin * r41907 /branches/resources/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/wizards/WmlTagWizardPage.java: A stub.
20100331 12:03:03< timotei21> ok, thanks
20100331 12:03:25< CIA-64> fendrin * r41908 /branches/resources/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/wizards/ (CampaignNewWizard.java ScenarioNewWizardPage.java): Renamed the title of a wizard.
20100331 12:04:07< fabi> timotei21: At some point you gave a reference to another gsoc proposal, the wml debug project.
20100331 12:04:27< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:05:35< fabi> If I understood you right, that would be a matter if the engine was called from eclipse to test the current workspace?
20100331 12:07:05< timotei21> well, I wasn't sure (this was the first time I've decided to took up on the plugin as GSOC project) if I should display some sort of quick fixes (just like ReSharper has)
20100331 12:07:45< timotei21> like: you're using a macro, but the order is not correct, you could tell the user that she should swap between 2 variables
20100331 12:08:21< timotei21> but, that will depend on the engine that checks the WML right?
20100331 12:08:26< fabi> Right, I see. But that macro thing would be reported by wmlscope not from the engine, right?
20100331 12:08:37< timotei21> cause I'm just delegating the task to the wml* tools
20100331 12:08:54< timotei21> and I'm getting back some feedback about errors/warnings/possible fixes
20100331 12:09:21< fabi> Yes, wmllint does even have some autofixing abilities.
20100331 12:10:06< fabi> I have thought your question was targeting about integrating the engine in an eclipse debugging process.
20100331 12:11:19< timotei21> the engine would be who? the wml tools?
20100331 12:11:22< timotei21> or the plugin?
20100331 12:11:33< fabi> the engine is the wesnoth game itself.
20100331 12:12:03< fabi> The game engine.
20100331 12:12:22< timotei21> oh
20100331 12:12:28< fabi> :-)
20100331 12:12:40< fabi> Let's start again. We have talked around each other.
20100331 12:12:46< timotei21> yeah:))
20100331 12:12:55< fabi> I will just fetch a coffee.
20100331 12:13:06< timotei21> ok, and sorry for my misunderstanding
20100331 12:14:18< fabi> No problem, I am no native english speaker myself.
20100331 12:15:02< timotei21> so the WMLDebugging thingy, was about...
20100331 12:15:40< timotei21> there are some IDE plugins (for e.g. Visual Studio has Resharper). When you got and error they may suggest you a fix
20100331 12:16:04< timotei21> in that way I've thought the wml debugging ideea
20100331 12:16:25< fabi> Okay, let's separate that in two tasks.
20100331 12:17:14< fabi> The first task is: You use your builder at least every time a file is saved, right? That builder will do wml* whatever to the current project and report errors.
20100331 12:17:22< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:17:55< fabi> The lines are marked and if the tool is clever and tells a known problem you can offer a fix like in java development.
20100331 12:18:14< fabi> Okay?
20100331 12:18:58< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:19:52< fabi> You can also offer as an extra feature to let wmllint to autorepair the code. You will see that wmllint can be run in two modes: Readonly and convert. convert will update old wml syntax and fix some bugs.
20100331 12:20:00< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:20:15< timotei21> I've read about wmllint,scope and ident. 
20100331 12:20:23< timotei21> crab gave me some references
20100331 12:20:25< fabi> Okay, that was the first task.
20100331 12:20:49< fabi> I guess you won't need ident because that will be done by your eclipse wml editor internaly , right?
20100331 12:21:54< fabi> s/ident/indent
20100331 12:21:54< timotei21> I think yes... but even though, if you copy paste, that may be an issue, but I will solve it eventuall
20100331 12:22:04< fabi> Okay.
20100331 12:22:13< fabi> The second task maybe more tricky.
20100331 12:22:36< fabi> The wesnoth engine does give you a wml stacktrace sometimes. Have you already seen one?
20100331 12:22:45< timotei21> no...
20100331 12:23:00< timotei21> how can I see one?
20100331 12:23:03< fabi> Okay, go in data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere
20100331 12:23:11< fabi> edit in scenarios the first one.
20100331 12:23:11< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:23:21< fabi> Just mess up the wmltag balance.
20100331 12:23:27< fabi> That should be easy.
20100331 12:23:31< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:23:40< fabi> Start the campaign.
20100331 12:24:45< timotei21> ops, one sec, I've modified the source files :))
20100331 12:25:49< timotei21> ok, got a WML error:D
20100331 12:26:02< timotei21> oh cool...
20100331 12:26:05< timotei21> code stacktrace
20100331 12:26:09< timotei21> that's really awesome:D
20100331 12:26:16< fabi> Do you see what I have in mind?
20100331 12:26:27< timotei21> well, yeah, that is nie
20100331 12:26:33< timotei21> s/nie/nice
20100331 12:26:43< timotei21> so, you would want to give also some of that stacktrace?
20100331 12:27:04< fabi> Are you familiar with eclipse's debug view?
20100331 12:27:31< timotei21> kinda
20100331 12:28:22< fabi> It can be used to jump to the position of every call in a stacktrace.
20100331 12:28:40< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:29:02< fabi> Whenever the engine gives you files and lines back that could be used in eclipse to jump in the code.
20100331 12:29:23< timotei21> in the engine code right?
20100331 12:29:38< fabi> No, in the scenarios wml code.
20100331 12:29:44< fabi> or campaign or whatever.
20100331 12:29:46< timotei21> ok
20100331 12:30:47< fabi> That feature would be heaven for wml coders. It sounds easy doable, no idea if it is in practice.
20100331 12:31:03< timotei21> yes...
20100331 12:31:17< timotei21> one part I don't get it, or don't know hot to do
20100331 12:31:35< timotei21> you should have this feature, when running the current edited scenario/campaign etc?
20100331 12:31:43< fabi> yes
20100331 12:31:44< timotei21> so the game should fire up and report back
20100331 12:31:45< timotei21> ok
20100331 12:31:50< fabi> right.
20100331 12:32:10< timotei21> then... I need somehow to get a signal from the game, when an error ocurreed
20100331 12:32:27< timotei21> but that can be done
20100331 12:33:05< fabi> the engine should also give you a container with the wml variable environment.
20100331 12:33:11< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:33:26< fabi> And the last little things are breakpoints.
20100331 12:34:02< timotei21> I was wondering about if wmlscope doesn't do the same thing... but when mentioned the wml variable enviro, then it's ok, it's better to use the engine
20100331 12:34:15< fabi> we could have a wml tag [breakpoint] that pauses the engine and talks to the editor.
20100331 12:34:21< timotei21> yes
20100331 12:34:55< timotei21> well, let's note the ideas so far
20100331 12:38:10< fabi> timotei21: Yes, please extend the wiki with them if you like them.
20100331 12:45:46< timotei21> mordante, got the errors
20100331 12:45:57< timotei21> would you like to see the full log, or just the part with the errors?
20100331 12:46:07< fabi> timotei21: Do you have any questions left?
20100331 12:46:15< timotei21> not right now
20100331 12:46:29< mordante> timotei21, just pastebin everything, I start to read from the end 
20100331 12:46:38< timotei21> thanks for ideeas, and feedback
20100331 12:47:17< fabi> timotei21: You are welcome.
20100331 12:47:17< timotei21> here, mordante: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/AZyBU1Rq
20100331 12:53:16< fabi> timotei21: About the commit access, if you provide two medium sized patches that get accepted into the codebase the team will give you a test commit account. If you don't mess up svn regularly that commit access will be granted for your or the projects lifetime, and you earn the red developer rang on the forums. That is independent from the gsoc thing.
20100331 12:53:40< timotei21> okey
20100331 12:55:50< fabi> timotei21: You see, it's much easier to become a developer and get commit access than getting a gsoc student ;-P
20100331 12:55:58< timotei21> yes:))
20100331 12:56:10< fabi> s/getting/becoming
20100331 12:56:44< timotei21> me brb 10 mins
20100331 12:56:50< mordante> timotei21, not sure what goes wrong, I think I know which commit introduced it, but rather wait for Crab_ he knows more about MSVC
20100331 12:59:43< fabi> timotei21: Remember that you can escape the MSVC hell by just using linux for development. That will save you much time. At least in the future.
20100331 13:09:02< shadowmaster> cppcheck is nice
20100331 13:09:29< shadowmaster> fabi: you mean rank, btw, not rang
20100331 13:09:42< fabi> shadowmaster: Right.
20100331 13:11:14< timotei21> i'm back
20100331 13:11:28< timotei21> yes, I know...
20100331 13:11:36< timotei21> but right now I'm tighten to windows:P
20100331 13:11:56< fabi> timotei21: Can you foresee the time you will need for the first wizard feature?
20100331 13:12:09< shadowmaster> hm.
20100331 13:12:28< mordante> shadowmaster, cppcheck is very nice, but getting rather slow :-(
20100331 13:12:45< shadowmaster> fabi: you never got my message last night ?
20100331 13:13:02< shadowmaster> mordante: ah, that's Wesnoth's fault
20100331 13:13:07< timotei21> fabi: I don't really understand the full questions
20100331 13:13:26< timotei21> s/questions/question
20100331 13:13:38< mordante> timotei21, if your CPU supports visualization you can try to run linux in virtualbox
20100331 13:13:46< timotei21> I have that
20100331 13:13:47< mordante> shadowmaster, no it was faster before
20100331 13:13:47< wesbot> mordante: Sometimes we are fast
20100331 13:14:02< timotei21> but... is there any way I can code C++ WITH autocomplete?
20100331 13:14:04< mordante> thank you wesbot for reminding me
20100331 13:14:06< timotei21> like in visual studio?
20100331 13:14:14< fabi> shadowmaster: No, I haven't. Where is it?
20100331 13:15:15< fabi> timotei21: How fast can you code the wizard that creates a scenario? I believe that is a good start.
20100331 13:15:16< mordante> timotei21, I use vim with omnicomplete which works properly most of the time
20100331 13:15:17< shadowmaster> <sarcasm> it used to be in your server-side SendQ </sarcasm>
20100331 13:15:40< mordante> but I like command line tools over most IDE's
20100331 13:15:41< shadowmaster> but it's in the logs too, so I'll repaste
20100331 13:15:45< shadowmaster> fabi: did you ever try the lightred and darkred color ranges against a good reference image (e.g. the magenta watch)?
20100331 13:16:21< mordante> only MSVC's debugger is superior over the ones I found on linux thusfar
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20100331 13:16:41< fabi> shadowmaster: Hell what? In which context do you ask that question?
20100331 13:17:01< timotei21> mordante: if I can get working the autocomplete on vim, then I'll put linux in dual boot:D
20100331 13:17:03< shadowmaster> in the context of the lightred and darkred color ranges
20100331 13:17:09< shadowmaster> do I really need to explain myself?
20100331 13:17:15< timotei21> mordante: that's the only reason I like more msvc
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20100331 13:17:32< timotei21> fabi: well... I will try to do it tomorrow, or this week
20100331 13:18:18< mordante> timotei21, also not sure whether eclipse has it, I assume it has? fabi ?
20100331 13:18:23< shadowmaster> shikadibot: log 38596
20100331 13:18:24< shikadibot> Revision 38596 (fendrin, 2009-09-11 18:12:53 +0000 (Fri, 11 Sep 2009)):
20100331 13:18:27< shikadibot> Core macros: Defined new team colors for loyal and important units. The {LOYAL} trait macro should change that for every units in all campaign that is loyal and on side1. 
20100331 13:18:30< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=38596
20100331 13:18:38< shadowmaster> fabi: that context
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20100331 13:19:20< timotei21> hey crab :D
20100331 13:19:29< timotei21> what should have eclipse?
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20100331 13:19:42< timotei21> the debugger from eclipse is good too
20100331 13:19:54< fabi> shadowmaster: That patch is old and obsolete. We have that ring now to mark loyal units. 
20100331 13:19:58< Ivanovic> timotei21: there are many tools under linux that got auto completion
20100331 13:19:59< timotei21> but, not really smart in some situations, as far as I tested
20100331 13:20:00< fabi> s/patch/commit
20100331 13:20:02-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 13:20:08< Crab_> hi, timotei21
20100331 13:20:09< Ivanovic> timotei21: eg you could use a full fledged IDE like eclipse or kdevelop
20100331 13:20:10< shadowmaster> fabi: I know, but the color ranges still exist and are in a stable version
20100331 13:20:17< Ivanovic> or one of the many texteditors that have it, eg kate
20100331 13:20:40< fabi> shadowmaster: Sorry for that, but they are used nowhere.
20100331 13:20:46< shadowmaster> so I take it you gave arbitrary values in the WML definition and never really checked how well they looked
20100331 13:21:02< shadowmaster> nowhere in mainline anyway.
20100331 13:21:13< fabi> I did check them out.
20100331 13:21:24< Crab_> timotei21: 'try svn update -> regenerate msvc project -> clean -> rebuild' sequence, if there's some errors
20100331 13:21:26< fabi> But my eyesight isn't normal.
20100331 13:21:55-!- heltonduarte [~heltondua@189.124.191.252] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100331 13:22:53< mordante> Crab_, cmake should regenerate the project when needed, which works properly most of the time
20100331 13:23:29< timotei21> yes, crab_, did that already, now I'm trying to compile the game in another way  - it was set to use the debug libraries
20100331 13:23:38< fabi> shadowmaster: I have found them quite distinguishable but I admit that may be wrong.
20100331 13:25:59< heltonduarte> mordante: Crab_ told me yesterday that you're the right person to talk about "Port Wesnoth input framework to a more flexible system" idea...
20100331 13:26:11< mordante> heltonduarte, correct
20100331 13:27:01< heltonduarte> mordante: I was searching in SDL documentation and I saw a lot of functions about joysticks
20100331 13:27:36< heltonduarte> mordante: I think I have to search the current options in the SDL 1.2 and the new ones in SDL 1.3, am I right?
20100331 13:29:13< mordante> yes I mainly want to aim at SDL 1.2 but optionally allow 1.3 as well
20100331 13:29:28< mordante> the main problem with 1.3 is, we have no idea when it will be released
20100331 13:30:50< heltonduarte> ok, but the Wesnoth's GUI system is already written using SDL joystick functions and you want someone to improve or you want someone to do this modification?
20100331 13:31:39< shadowmaster> we haven't ever used the joystick interfaces AFAIK
20100331 13:31:46< mordante> we have two places where we handle the input
20100331 13:32:22< mordante> 1) the new gui (called gui2) which uses an abstraction layer between the raw SDL events and it's internal events
20100331 13:32:39< mordante> 2) the rest of the code, that mainly uses raw events
20100331 13:33:00< mordante> the goal is to move 2 to use an event abstraction like 1
20100331 13:33:26< mordante> and the provide more hooks for other controller types
20100331 13:35:40< heltonduarte> ok...because I'm studying options to do it and I've wanted a more detailed explanation about the objectives, but now it's clearer
20100331 13:36:23< mordante> ok good, just ask if you want to know more
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20100331 13:37:18< heltonduarte> ok, I'll try to study the SDL system with joystick and the Wesnoth's use of this abstraction layer
20100331 13:38:09< mordante> keep in mind it's about all input devices so also mouse and keyboard and SDL internal events (like ACTIVATE)
20100331 13:38:42< heltonduarte> one more thing: if I'm still studying the options to develop it, do I need to make my submission page now in your website or can I wait till I have a more detailed idea?
20100331 13:39:38< mordante> heltonduarte, what you prefer, but don't wait until the last moment
20100331 13:40:14< mordante> heltonduarte, we will look at your application and ask questions in order to improve the submission
20100331 13:40:33< mordante> thusfar no student managed to get a perfect application in one iteration ;-)
20100331 13:40:57-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100331 13:41:00< mordante> nor do we expect that
20100331 13:41:18< heltonduarte> ok, thanks
20100331 13:41:43< heltonduarte> so I'll start making an application
20100331 13:42:10-!- Zarel| [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 13:42:39< mordante> yeah if you think it's good enough to review just ping me (or leave a message in the log if I'm not around)
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20100331 13:44:02< timotei21> fabi, you're still here?
20100331 13:44:29< timotei21> I want to remove the thing with the WML Debugging thingy, cause it's a little confusing, right?
20100331 13:47:44< fabi> timotei21: Sorry, I don't get what you want to remove from where?
20100331 13:54:33< timotei21> If http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_WML_Debugging is implemented, should there be help/indications for fixing the errors of written user code?
20100331 13:54:42< timotei21> this line, that we talked about today
20100331 13:55:00< timotei21> I've deleted it, and explained more in the proposal
20100331 13:55:04< timotei21> about the debugging idea
20100331 14:00:05< fabi> Ah, okay. That is fine.
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20100331 14:09:28< timotei21> I have one question, why doesn't cmake work like on linux?
20100331 14:09:48< timotei21> I'm running it just like I would want to run in linux, but it doesn't make any files, so I can use then make
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20100331 14:24:19< mordante> timotei21, what do you mean with that on Windows you need to choose the output type of the project
20100331 14:25:46< timotei21> where?
20100331 14:26:01< mordante> what do you mean with where?
20100331 14:26:31< timotei21> sorry, I don't understand your first question: where I said that?
20100331 14:26:47< timotei21> well, screw this, I'm gonna use linux
20100331 14:27:09< timotei21> no more headaches
20100331 14:27:10< timotei21> :))
20100331 14:27:20< mordante> I just wonder what your problem with cmake under Windows is
20100331 14:27:42< mordante> but of course if you want to switch to linux, I'm not going to stop you ;-)
20100331 14:30:19< timotei21> I was following this one: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth#Building_with_CMake
20100331 14:30:24< timotei21> and I can't "make"
20100331 14:32:13< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen BroodKiller
20100331 14:32:13< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick BroodKiller last spoke 50d 16h ago.  50d 16h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100331 14:32:19< shadowmaster> oohh..kay
20100331 14:33:33< mordante> timotei21, that's because there's no make on Windows ;-) I creates a MSVC project file, which allows you to build Wesnoth with MSVC
20100331 14:33:56< timotei21> well, I downloaded the make for windows version
20100331 14:34:12< shadowmaster> mingw32 has make, gcc, etc.
20100331 14:34:26< mordante> I only used CMake with MSVC on windows
20100331 14:34:30< shadowmaster> learning to use it? hmmm...the Linux cross-compiler was easier to use IMHO
20100331 14:34:40< mordante> shadowmaster, exactly
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20100331 14:37:08 * loonycyborg uses mingw on windows, but with scons.
20100331 14:37:29< timotei21> and it works?:D
20100331 14:37:41< shadowmaster> scons is a beast. It works, though.
20100331 14:38:14< loonycyborg> timotei21: Yes. All my windows installers are made with it
20100331 14:38:39< puer> where would i find more maps like A New Land. i use to remember playing a map very similar to it.
20100331 14:38:54< puer> also any idea if they plan on bring wesbowl back?
20100331 14:39:01< shadowmaster> maybe Gambit's Empire Builder?
20100331 14:39:23< shadowmaster> also, about wesbowl; someone (Bob?) made a Wesball add-on, but I don't think it's being considered for mainline
20100331 14:39:32< puer> :(
20100331 14:39:37< Blarumyrran> It was much upgraded from the old mainline one
20100331 14:39:39< shadowmaster> the main problem with these scripted MP scenarios in mainline is that people forget to maintain them
20100331 14:39:57< timotei21> ok guys, I have to goo
20100331 14:40:01< timotei21> see you later;)
20100331 14:40:03< shadowmaster> (and that's something wmllint can't solve for some reason!)
20100331 14:40:07-!- timotei21 [~timotei21@193.34.191.4] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
20100331 14:40:39< puer> does the script language change that much that scripts become so broken after 1 or 2 versions?
20100331 14:41:01< puer> i mean all these people spend time on them only to have them broken in a month or 2?
20100331 14:41:02< shadowmaster> the language doesn't change as much as the behavior
20100331 14:41:26< shadowmaster> and that breakage usually comes with every new development cycle. That is, once ina  year
20100331 14:41:29< shadowmaster> *a year
20100331 14:41:54< puer> well they should bring back wesbowl. it wont be bob i dont think though. he said he wasnt happy with it.
20100331 14:42:47< puer> i will say this win7 support has gone way up
20100331 14:43:08< Blarumyrran> win7 support for wesbowl?
20100331 14:43:11< puer> 1.6 was slower than dirt and would sometimes freeze for up to a minute at a time
20100331 14:43:13< puer> no
20100331 14:43:15< puer> wesnoth
20100331 14:43:24< puer> im using the beta now
20100331 14:43:27< puer> no more slowdowns
20100331 14:43:48< shadowmaster> are you sure it wasn't just that you were formerly using the operating system's RC version? :)
20100331 14:43:59< shadowmaster> or early experimental video drivers...
20100331 14:44:14< puer> i was using the stable version.
20100331 14:44:25< puer> and i just changed it yesterday. 
20100331 14:44:36< puer> to the dev version
20100331 14:44:55< puer> for whatever reason 1.6 would start hanging on the ai or the start of turns
20100331 14:45:05< puer> and loading screens were 10x slower
20100331 14:45:21< puer> doesnt seem an issue with dev though
20100331 14:46:11< puer> i even messed around and installed the stable with different compatibility modes
20100331 14:46:22< puer> 2000 made it a little faster but would still hang.
20100331 14:46:30< puer> dev installed fine without compat
20100331 14:47:48< puer> and i wasnt using the rc version. i got retail version of windows 7
20100331 14:47:55< shadowmaster> sure. We don't make stupid assumptions about how Windows works...
20100331 14:48:10< shadowmaster> all we require is Windows 2000, XP or later
20100331 14:48:22< puer> im not tryin to make assumptions. i do know what i saw though. 
20100331 14:48:59< shadowmaster> no, I mean wesnoth's source.
20100331 14:49:43< puer> is it perhaps a processer issue? i mean windows 7 seems to use dual cores alot differently than xp did
20100331 14:50:22< puer> what changes were there on a functioning lvl between 1.6 and 1.7/8?
20100331 14:50:49< shadowmaster> I'd suspect of SDL rather than Wesnoth.
20100331 14:50:52< loonycyborg> puer: Since 1.6 I've changed mingw version used to build then binary and upgraded some dependencies.
20100331 14:51:01< loonycyborg> */then/the
20100331 14:51:23< puer> ok well whatever you did. it works better on windows 7 now
20100331 14:51:34< shadowmaster> *SDL and its default provider (can't remember if it'll use DirectDraw or GDI)
20100331 14:52:35< puer> sdl is gdi i believe. dont make sense that its directdraw. directx isnt something that linux apps would want to try porting to.
20100331 14:53:24< puer> im an idiot though. what do i know.
20100331 14:53:42< puer> i know how to get things working. why they work, beats me.
20100331 14:54:32< shadowmaster> ...GDI isn't something that Linux apps would be able to use either.
20100331 14:54:49< shadowmaster> the point of SDL is that clients don't have to bother with DirectDraw, GDI or the X11 protocols
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20100331 14:55:24< shadowmaster> so it's all done by the SDL library and we don't have to bother unless we want to be picky and tell SDL to use a particular interface or set of options
20100331 14:55:55< puer> i see
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20100331 15:15:46< puer> are there any other type of special mp scenarios. i played the old wesbowl, a new land, and 18th century warfare(which by the way needs work. ships are only so useful and no real way to take guys over seas)
20100331 15:15:56< puer> they can hold those islands for hours
20100331 15:19:17< puer> im interested in alternative uses for wesnoth. i think its a great game. not to sure about some of the eras though. played this one that had all animals for 1 faction and all regenerate guys for another.
20100331 15:19:26< puer> regenerate demolished the other every times
20100331 15:19:34< puer> even when we switched control
20100331 15:22:22< puer> i guess you all are busy.
20100331 15:22:30 * puer waits and twiddles his thumbs
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20100331 15:27:04< fabi> puer: Better ask on #wesnoth. Many developers don't play much addons.
20100331 15:27:23< fabi> puer: We are busy with coding :-)
20100331 15:27:51< loonycyborg> Or #wesnoth-umc-dev :P
20100331 15:56:30< fabi> zookeeper, Can an ability that does regenerate only at night be coded?
20100331 15:57:02< puer> i dont see why not. there are things with ability only to regenerate on certain terrain.
20100331 15:58:34< zookeeper> fabi, sure
20100331 15:58:42< zookeeper> just add a suitable filter to it
20100331 15:59:01< fabi> I thought so. But how can I filter for time of day?
20100331 15:59:46< zookeeper> filter for the unit, add a [filter_location] with time_of_day=chaotic
20100331 16:00:55< fabi> ah, time is bound to a location. I should have known that. Thanks
20100331 16:01:52< puer> how much work would it be to get wesbowl working with the new version? and is the code for it still available?
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20100331 17:15:34< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41909 /website/start/1.8/ (14 files in 2 dirs): updated Russian announcement translation
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20100331 17:36:43< awilkins_> zookeeper, my name is Andrew, a student interested in GSoC this year. I was talking to Crab_ yesterday about WML debugging. Crab_ said I should talk to you about it.
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20100331 17:38:13< zookeeper> awilkins_, good timing, as i'll be back a bit later :P
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20100331 17:38:48< zookeeper> you'd have probably gotten a better response out of me at almost any hour earlier today ;)
20100331 17:39:26< awilkins_> zookeeper: nuts, I knew I should've gotten to work earlier today :p
20100331 17:40:04< zookeeper> no worries, i won't be away for too long..
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20100331 17:40:30< awilkins_> zookeper: okay good :) I should be here most of the day
20100331 17:40:54< awilkins_> I'll talk to you about it later than : p
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20100331 18:13:36< Shuger> hi
20100331 18:14:43< Shuger> timotei21, have you used this: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows#Compiling_Wesnoth_on_Windows ?
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20100331 18:37:42< CIA-64> ivanovic * r41910 /website/start/1.8/ (index.de.html index.ru.html po/de.po po/ru.po): updated German and Russian announcement translation
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20100331 18:43:57< timotei21> shuger: yes
20100331 18:44:03< timotei21> but just doesn't really work:)
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20100331 19:03:40< Shuger> timotei21, oh :D
20100331 19:03:57< timotei21> but nevermind, I'm gonna use portable ubuntu
20100331 19:03:59< timotei21> and that's all
20100331 19:04:00< timotei21> :P
20100331 19:04:22< Shuger> seriously bulding under windows is painfull
20100331 19:04:32< timotei21> sometimes yes
20100331 19:04:41< Shuger> can't get rid of those linker errors
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20100331 19:05:21< Shuger> the state that can't find function tjat is a cpp file included in the project so everything should be fine ;)
20100331 19:05:27< Shuger> *they
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20100331 19:06:54< pokhbocee> there is a program that provides a terminal in windows
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20100331 19:07:10< pokhbocee> i forgot the name though but it could be use for for you timotei21
20100331 19:07:13< endercoaster> cygwin
20100331 19:07:25< pokhbocee> yes :D
20100331 19:07:26< Shuger> i know, but what's the point?
20100331 19:07:31< gabba> hi
20100331 19:07:36< pokhbocee> hey gabba
20100331 19:07:38< Shuger> its better to use linuc ;)
20100331 19:07:44< Shuger> *linux
20100331 19:07:47< Shuger> hi
20100331 19:08:10< pokhbocee> maybe
20100331 19:08:18< pokhbocee> but if u are happy with your os
20100331 19:08:29< pokhbocee> you dont wanna change it
20100331 19:08:39< timotei21> pokhbocee, cygwin won't help me
20100331 19:08:39< timotei21> :D
20100331 19:08:50< timotei21> afair
20100331 19:08:52< pokhbocee> oh im sorry then
20100331 19:08:56< pokhbocee> gabba:
20100331 19:09:12< pokhbocee> gabba: do you know how to compile-install a subdirectory?
20100331 19:09:43< gabba> pokhbocee: what do you mean exactly?
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20100331 19:10:55< pokhbocee> after modification
20100331 19:11:10< pokhbocee> to test it, i have to compile and re install whole project
20100331 19:11:16< pokhbocee> which takes hell of a time
20100331 19:11:35< gabba> which build system are you using?
20100331 19:11:39< pokhbocee> other than that the changes are not applied to executable
20100331 19:11:44< pokhbocee> autotools
20100331 19:11:50< Shuger_> well, there's that too
20100331 19:12:02< pokhbocee> now im trying scons
20100331 19:12:28< pokhbocee> but having problem pointing out the boost library
20100331 19:12:37< pokhbocee> i cannot make it see the boost lib
20100331 19:12:37< gabba> never used autotools, we're kind of deprecating their use I think
20100331 19:12:45< gabba> (I mean, with wesnoth)
20100331 19:13:03< loonycyborg> pokhbocee: Ask all scons related questions to me.
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20100331 19:13:31< gabba> pokhbocee: well, you run a make install every time? that's not necessary
20100331 19:13:50< gabba> pokhbocee: you can run wesnoth from the compile directory directly
20100331 19:14:02< pokhbocee> from the src directory?
20100331 19:14:14< gabba> pokhbocee: no, just above that
20100331 19:14:31< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: how can i make scons see the boost lib?
20100331 19:14:44< pokhbocee> gabba: ill try it now
20100331 19:14:47< loonycyborg> With autotools you do "src/wesnoth ." to run.
20100331 19:14:54< zookeeper> awilkins_, ok, i'm back
20100331 19:15:11< loonycyborg> pokhbocee: What's the platform? Is boost installed in standard location?
20100331 19:15:30< awilkins_> zookeeper: oh good timing, just got back from lunch myself
20100331 19:16:06< gabba> pokhbocee: you can also enter the data directory as a command line parameter to wesnoth: for instance with cmake I had an out-of-tree build, and I had to run ./wesnoth <my_svn_checkout_directory> for it to run
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20100331 19:16:26< pokhbocee> gabba: there is no executable in the main directory.
20100331 19:16:29< zookeeper> awilkins_, so what do you need exactly?
20100331 19:16:31< awilkins_> zookeper: so I was hoping to be able to work towards the debugging WML from student ideas list
20100331 19:17:03< gabba> pokhbocee: loonycyborg seems to say it's an autotools characteristic; scons and cmake put it in the main dir
20100331 19:17:04< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: its not in the standard location, so how can i point its location?
20100331 19:17:45< pokhbocee> ohh
20100331 19:17:51< pokhbocee> so i should try to run it in scons
20100331 19:17:53< awilkins_> zookeeper: Crab_ said I should check out the wml and compile the code, and than ask you what needs to be done precisely
20100331 19:18:16< gabba> pokhbocee: "With autotools you do "src/wesnoth ." to run." ^^ -- try that from the main dir
20100331 19:18:21< awilkins_> zookeeper: I compiled version 1.6.5 last night and began to compile the code off of the SVN trunk, but wasn't able to finish
20100331 19:18:43< loonycyborg> pokhbocee: Something like scons boostdir=/usr/local/include/boost-1_42 boostlibdir=/usr/local/lib boost_suffix=-gcc43-mt-1_42
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20100331 19:19:13< awilkins_> zookeeper: After looking at some of the scenario WML's and reading your post on the forums about the current way to debug. I can see it does need some help.
20100331 19:19:16< loonycyborg> Change as appropriate for you custom install.
20100331 19:19:47< zookeeper> awilkins_, yes, i agree ;)
20100331 19:20:19< awilkins_> zookeeper: has there been any other students going for this project?
20100331 19:20:47< zookeeper> awilkins_, looks like it: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WMLDebugingSupport_fakedrake
20100331 19:21:45< awilkins_> zookeeper: yes I looked at that yesterday, but he left his project portion blank
20100331 19:21:46< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: what is written after boost_suffix
20100331 19:22:06< zookeeper> awilkins_, so does WML seem easy to understand to you?
20100331 19:22:08< awilkins_> zookeeper: so I'm not 100% sure what I can offer that differs from his project : p
20100331 19:22:34< zookeeper> well, you can make a more convincing proposal
20100331 19:23:47< loonycyborg> pokhbocee: E.g. libboost_regex*-gcc43-mt-1_42*.so <- this part. One after libboost_foo and before '.'
20100331 19:24:07< awilkins_> zookeeper: I work a lot with XML at my job, and it seems very similar to me. I had to create a simple xml parser, and I thought I could use that to head in the direction of a debugger. In short yes, I do understand the syntax of WML : p
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20100331 19:24:54< awilkins_> zookeeper: is there a better place to find broken examples of WML other than the forums? I was hoping to find the most common of errors. Just as a starting point.
20100331 19:24:59< pokhbocee> gabba: how do you run cmake in the main dir
20100331 19:25:07< pokhbocee> gabba: i can only run it in src
20100331 19:25:22< Ivanovic> you don't run cmake in the main dir
20100331 19:25:38< Ivanovic> you run it in some "external dir" (aka "build dir") so that the svn checkout stays clean
20100331 19:25:49< Ivanovic> example:
20100331 19:26:00< Ivanovic> you have a wesnoth checkout in the folder wesnoth-svn
20100331 19:26:12< zookeeper> awilkins_, the biggest difference between XML and WML is that WML uses the preprocessor very heavily
20100331 19:26:18< Ivanovic> on the same level as this folder, you create a folder named wesnoth_c
20100331 19:26:28< Ivanovic> you cd into the folder wesnoth_c
20100331 19:26:37< Ivanovic> from this folder: cmake ../wesnoth-svn
20100331 19:26:40< loonycyborg> scons keeps the checkout clean without any foolery :P
20100331 19:26:55< gabba> pokhbocee:  I just followed this http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth#Installing_using_CMake
20100331 19:27:00< loonycyborg> *any further foolery like that
20100331 19:27:08< Ivanovic> afterwards either "ccmake ." to change settings if required or directly "make"
20100331 19:27:24< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: the foolery is there to make removing of any build leftovers easier
20100331 19:27:31< Ivanovic> simply delete all of the build dir and you are done
20100331 19:27:35< zookeeper> awilkins_, anyway, AFAICT the debugging project would be pretty solely focused on better reporting for the preprocessor errors, not semantical errors
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20100331 19:27:38< gabba> Ivanovic: I actually run cmake in the main dir, otherwise I don't get any Eclipse svn integration
20100331 19:27:53< Ivanovic> ah, okay, you need eclipse svn integration
20100331 19:27:54< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: scons does that automatically.
20100331 19:28:00< Ivanovic> then it is a clear case of "no idea"
20100331 19:28:21< zookeeper> awilkins_, so that means you can get a pretty good idea of how the preprocessor errors work currently by just taking some random .cfg and making silly syntax errors in it. make some quotes unbalanced, remove a closing tag, etc.
20100331 19:28:27< pokhbocee> gabba: it doesnt work in main dir but in src
20100331 19:28:38< gabba> Ivanovic: well yeah, it has nice diff features, even shows you which lines differ from svn base when you edit any file
20100331 19:28:52< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: That is you get products in build/ dir without further setup.
20100331 19:29:17< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: and how to generate several builds with differing settings?
20100331 19:29:19< Ivanovic> ;)
20100331 19:29:23< awilkins_> zookeeper: okay, sounds like a good place to start : )
20100331 19:29:39< gabba> pokhbocee: for me it worked with 1- "cmake ." in the main dir, 2- "make" in the main dir
20100331 19:29:42< awilkins_> zookeeper: also Crab_ was mentioning :inspect dialog ?
20100331 19:29:46< zookeeper> awilkins_, yeah, you don't need to go hunting on the forums for syntax errors to make :p
20100331 19:29:56< zookeeper> awilkins_, afk for a minute..
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20100331 19:30:14< awilkins_> zookeeper: allright, I'll be here 
20100331 19:30:20< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: actually my problem is after i make changes. i have to compile-install all over again to see my changes, but it takes too much time
20100331 19:30:45< Ivanovic> with installing cmake by default does only replace changed files
20100331 19:30:57< endercoaster> likewise with scons
20100331 19:31:08< Ivanovic> pokhbocee: so installing should not take long when you already had stuff installed
20100331 19:31:27< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: I don't really need that since my default setup already covers debug/release/profile. Besides, I can always have several checkouts.
20100331 19:31:29< Ivanovic> and how long compiling takes depends on the files you change
20100331 19:32:01< Ivanovic> if you change on header that is included at several places: it recompiles almost everything, which takes a while
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20100331 19:32:29< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: thats why im confused. i think the reason is i use autotools
20100331 19:33:06< Ivanovic> pokhbocee: the only "difference" to autotools is basically that you run cmake PATH_TO_CHECKOUT instead of ./autogen.sh
20100331 19:33:24< Ivanovic> afterwards a plain make and make install, just like you are used from autotools, too
20100331 19:33:45< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: now im trying that but im having difficulty again to point my boost lib
20100331 19:33:48< Ivanovic> (of course you could run the binary in place with "./wesnoth PATH_TO_CHECKOUT" (the 2nd for the data dir)
20100331 19:33:59< Ivanovic> what is the error message that you get?
20100331 19:34:06< Ivanovic> and do you have several versions of boost installed?
20100331 19:34:24< Ivanovic> in general you can always call ccmake . or cmake-gui .
20100331 19:34:31< Ivanovic> there you can configure paths later on if required
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20100331 19:36:18< Ivanovic> if it does not work, some more details are required
20100331 19:36:34< Ivanovic> eg which versions of libs you got installed, how you run things, ...
20100331 19:36:42< Ivanovic> the cmake output might be helpfull, too
20100331 19:36:46< Ivanovic> and so on
20100331 19:37:02< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: here is the error:  http://pastebin.com/z83ZcPif
20100331 19:37:03< zookeeper> awilkins_, i'm not sure why :inspect would be relevant
20100331 19:37:27< Ivanovic> and where have you installed boost?
20100331 19:37:39< pokhbocee> normally i run autotools with ./autogen.sh  --prefix=/home/ebo25/ --with-boost=/home/ebo25/boost/
20100331 19:37:51< awilkins_> zookeeper: hmmm hold on let me go through the log real quick and find exact quote
20100331 19:37:52< zookeeper> awilkins_, might be that crab has a different idea of the scope of the project or something
20100331 19:37:55< zookeeper> all right
20100331 19:37:59< pokhbocee> and then instead of autogen i put configure and it works fine
20100331 19:38:08< Ivanovic> try this: cmake PATH_TO_CHECKOUT -DBOOST_ROOT=/home/ebo25/boost/
20100331 19:39:30< awilkins_> zookeeper: "also see how :inspect dialog (in debug mode) works", "if you're thinking about in-game debugger, you can base on it." -Crab_
20100331 19:39:43< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: i get this error http://pastebin.com/PVEdLHF6
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20100331 19:40:40< Ivanovic> pokhbocee: please try this (to have a clean start): mkdir /home/ebo25/Desktop/wesnoth/wesnoth-build
20100331 19:40:47< Ivanovic> cd /home/ebo25/Desktop/wesnoth/wesnoth-build
20100331 19:40:55< Ivanovic> where does your svn checkout reside?
20100331 19:41:14< Ivanovic> make sure that it is realy there and check if any files are changed! (svn up && svn st)
20100331 19:41:34< pokhbocee> ohhh ok my bad
20100331 19:41:36< pokhbocee> i see it now
20100331 19:41:38< pokhbocee> ok 
20100331 19:41:47< Ivanovic> assuming that the root of the checkout is in /home/ebo25/Desktop/wesnoth/svn :
20100331 19:42:32< Ivanovic> cmake ../svn -DBOOST_ROOT=/home/ebo25/boost/ -DPREFIX=/home/ebo25/
20100331 19:42:56< pokhbocee> i think i got it
20100331 19:42:58< pokhbocee> ty so much
20100331 19:43:09< pokhbocee> btw do i need FriBidi
20100331 19:43:21< awilkins_> zookeeper: I tried running the :inspect command yesterday, when I found out I needed the dev version of the game. Which is why I went to go build out of the trunk
20100331 19:43:50< Ivanovic> no, this is purely optional
20100331 19:43:54< awilkins_> zookeeper: so not sure what the :inspect dialog command shows
20100331 19:44:05< Ivanovic> only required for right to left languages in the old gui setup
20100331 19:44:30< Ivanovic> (currently we are using a mix of the old gui1 and the new gui2 system because gui2 is still a work in progress thingie)
20100331 19:44:55< awilkins_> Ivanovic: yah I was worried that leaving that out would come back to haunt me, glad to see it's not required.
20100331 19:45:06< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: i think it worked but i did it without  -DPREFIX=/home/ebo25/. but it put the build files in to checkout directory
20100331 19:45:42< pokhbocee> since for now i dont commit anything
20100331 19:45:47< pokhbocee> its ok for me :D
20100331 19:47:18< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: i couldnt find the interface for game units etc. where is it?
20100331 19:47:36< Ivanovic> ?
20100331 19:47:52< Ivanovic> src/units* ?
20100331 19:48:23< pokhbocee> ty
20100331 19:48:33< zookeeper> awilkins_, the :inspect dialog allows you to check the values of WML variables, units, and stuff like that. i don't really remember what all it included, but it was a really good addition for WML debugging. but it's completely separate from all preprocessor stuff, i think.
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20100331 19:48:43< zookeeper> afk some more for a bit of dinner.. ->
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20100331 19:49:54< awilkins_> zookeper: okay :) thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.
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20100331 19:55:08< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: i get errors in make --> http://pastebin.com/B1bvs8LZ
20100331 19:56:01< Ivanovic> why don't you just install boost system wide via your package manager?
20100331 19:56:13< Ivanovic> looks like boost was *not* found correctly
20100331 19:56:25< Ivanovic> change into the dir where you ran cmake from and there: ccmake .
20100331 19:56:30< Ivanovic> now hit "t"
20100331 19:56:46< Ivanovic> and adjust all variables that are boost related so that they are correct
20100331 19:57:00-!- phlaem [~a@p3EE07B7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 19:58:36< Ivanovic> on my system there are these variables: http://pastebin.com/4S1icium
20100331 19:59:13< Ivanovic> after adjusting the variables, hit 'c' (to reconfigure things) and then 'g' to regenerate the makefiles
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20100331 20:01:12< loonycyborg> pokhbocee: Really, you don't need to install with autotools either.
20100331 20:01:49< loonycyborg> Just run 'src/wesnoth .' from svn root. Or make a symlink from src/wesnoth to svn root :P
20100331 20:02:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20100331 20:04:07< shadowmaster> bleh, screw mingw32, I can't solve this.
20100331 20:04:34< awilkins_> loonycyborg: would there be anything messed up from using cmake and than switching over to scons?
20100331 20:04:42< mordante> off to diner and watching a movie
20100331 20:05:37< loonycyborg> awilkins_: Maybe. IIRC config.h is generated in a different dir.
20100331 20:06:13< awilkins_> looneycyborg: hmm, would my best bet be to redownload off the svn and start over?
20100331 20:06:36< loonycyborg> Yes.
20100331 20:07:01< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: so I'm thinking this would be the perfect time for me to actually list Wesnoth on Apple's download site again
20100331 20:07:02< awilkins_> looneycyborg: haha awesome. Wish I was at home to start downloading it. :p
20100331 20:07:10< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: yes
20100331 20:07:45< crimson_penguin> and I'm thinking I should just do that now, since they take I think up to a week or so to accept a submission anyway
20100331 20:09:14< Ivanovic> :)
20100331 20:09:58< crimson_penguin> "Product Summary (20 words or less)", this is exactly 20 words, if you count turn-based as one: "A free, turn-based tactical strategy game with a high fantasy theme, featuring both single-player, and online/hotseat multiplayer combat."
20100331 20:10:18< crimson_penguin> oh, 19 if you also count single-player as 1
20100331 20:10:57< Ivanovic> remove the '-' from singleplayer and turnbased and you are safe
20100331 20:10:59< Ivanovic> ;)
20100331 20:11:55< crimson_penguin> I thought I could just remove "high" and then I'd be fine either way too
20100331 20:12:12< Ivanovic> remove the high anyway
20100331 20:12:15< crimson_penguin> k
20100331 20:12:23< crimson_penguin> I think hyphenating those words is good
20100331 20:12:25< Ivanovic> it would look strange if there is single-player as well as multiplayer in one sentance
20100331 20:13:05-!- orfest [~kvirc@16.ngu.ac-tel.ru] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 20:13:17< orfest> hi friends!
20100331 20:13:44< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I don't think so, I think multiplayer is actually a word, singleplayer isn't
20100331 20:13:57< crimson_penguin> it doesn't really make sense, but, that's how it seems to me, and my spellcheck agrees
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20100331 20:14:26< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: the thing is my avrialbes are same as urs ( he ones not found in mine are not found in urs too). and also when i configure i get error about fribidi. i think it maybe the source of problem'
20100331 20:14:32< orfest> I gave some answers to rewrite-network-stack-task questions at my wiki page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerofCode_Orfest#6.29_Answers
20100331 20:15:12< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I'm copying the Description page, but I'm not really sure what to do about the overlap between the description and the feature list
20100331 20:15:37< crimson_penguin> maybe remove the last paragraph from the first part, and have the features list?
20100331 20:16:05< crimson_penguin> or maybe just keep it all, I guess there's not actually that much overlap
20100331 20:18:20< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: i was trying that but i dont know why. it doesnt work. when i only run make. it doesnt apply new changes
20100331 20:19:19< loonycyborg> Weird. What output do you get?
20100331 20:19:40< pokhbocee> oh i run it with ./wesnoth
20100331 20:19:46< pokhbocee> now i tried with wesnoth 
20100331 20:20:01< loonycyborg> Indeed. You should use ./wesnoth
20100331 20:20:01< pokhbocee> this time i get lib error again it doesnt see lib
20100331 20:20:04< pokhbocee> i do export
20100331 20:20:12< pokhbocee> even it doesnt work
20100331 20:20:17< pokhbocee> oh ./wesnoth works fine
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20100331 20:20:24< pokhbocee> but i have to run make install
20100331 20:20:30< pokhbocee> to see changes
20100331 20:20:34< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: one thing though: they require a direct link to the file (which they say must be a zip... but I'm pretty sure it's not really true)
20100331 20:20:57< loonycyborg> "wesnoth" will look in path while "./wesnoth" will run the binary in current dir.
20100331 20:21:22< loonycyborg> So re make install that should be other way around.
20100331 20:21:43< crimson_penguin> yup, found another one that's a dmg :P
20100331 20:22:45< loonycyborg> Anyway, autotools builds wesnoth in src/ and to run it in place without installing you run "src/wesnoth ." from svn root.
20100331 20:23:28< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: for the "what's new in this version", I'm gonna summarize all the top-level items of the list in players_changelog, because I don't think they want a list that huge
20100331 20:24:00< crimson_penguin> although maybe I should just skip it altogether
20100331 20:24:52< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: im not sure that i understand you
20100331 20:25:27< loonycyborg> What exactly is unclear?
20100331 20:30:59< crimson_penguin> I have a graphics bug, which someone reported, and which I just reproduced (I haven't tried to do it again though, but it happened "first try")
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20100331 20:33:31< pokhbocee> :D as general the things u just said
20100331 20:33:33< crimson_penguin> these lines appear when the objectives window comes up, and at first it was just over the terrain, and moving my mouse would simultaneously get rid of them, and create more in other places, but eventually it went away in the terrain
20100331 20:33:46< pokhbocee> but i now for sure without make install i cannot see the changes
20100331 20:34:01< crimson_penguin> however, it corrupted the display of the status display on the right, and that never goes away
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20100331 20:58:04< pokhbocee> loonycyborg: if i run src/wesnoth .   instead of ./wesnoth in src 
20100331 20:58:07< pokhbocee> it works :D
20100331 20:58:09< pokhbocee> ty man
20100331 20:58:21< loonycyborg> np
20100331 20:58:23< pokhbocee>  and ty Ivanovic
20100331 20:58:38< pokhbocee> its weird why it doesnt work with ./wesnoth
20100331 20:58:45< pokhbocee> whateva
20100331 20:58:47< pokhbocee> :D
20100331 20:58:50< shadowmaster> no, it's not weird
20100331 20:59:03< pokhbocee> why?
20100331 20:59:13< shadowmaster> it's just that we didn't teach it to use a crystal ball to guess where the data dir is
20100331 20:59:26< shadowmaster> it has a very basic idea of how to locate it though
20100331 20:59:32< pokhbocee> oh the thing is ./wesnoth works
20100331 20:59:36< shadowmaster> (patches welcome!)
20100331 20:59:42< pokhbocee> within the stc directory
20100331 20:59:43< pokhbocee> src
20100331 20:59:47< pokhbocee> if i make install
20100331 20:59:53< pokhbocee> if i run make install
20100331 21:00:08< pokhbocee> but the thing i was trying to is to apply changes by just compiling
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20100331 21:03:24< pokhbocee> shadowmaster: i am not sure understand it
20100331 21:03:37< pokhbocee> to run src/wesnoth .  in main directory
20100331 21:03:51< pokhbocee> and to run ./wesnoth in src directory are same things right?
20100331 21:04:03< shadowmaster> no
20100331 21:04:34< pokhbocee> what is the correspondence command of src/wesnoth .  in src directory?
20100331 21:04:43< shadowmaster> the working directory is the working directory. If I call src/wesnoth, wesnoth will be started with the working directory unchanged
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20100331 21:04:49< shadowmaster> and it'll not be src
20100331 21:05:02< shadowmaster> and that's not a wesnoth-specific thing, either
20100331 21:05:41< pokhbocee> im just not experienced in unix so my confusion was about it :D not to wesnoth
20100331 21:05:45< teaser> are there any rooms planned for the official server (others than lobby, private chat, and the imaginary admin)?
20100331 21:05:49-!- Chusslove [~Chusslove@brsg-d9bef19a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 21:05:54< pokhbocee> im trying to leanr how things work
20100331 21:06:10< pokhbocee> laern
20100331 21:06:13< pokhbocee> learn 
20100331 21:06:17< pokhbocee> oh too much typo :D
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20100331 21:12:20< silene> hi
20100331 21:12:42< shadowmaster> hi there
20100331 21:14:39< pokhbocee> hey
20100331 21:14:56< pokhbocee> guys can i ask you something?
20100331 21:15:11< shadowmaster> yes, you already did.
20100331 21:15:15< pokhbocee> in lua some_unit.get_location() is valid code?
20100331 21:15:17< shadowmaster> (hint: don't ask to ask)
20100331 21:15:40< pokhbocee> :D old habbits
20100331 21:18:20< pokhbocee> is it valid?
20100331 21:18:32< pokhbocee> because get_location() is a method of c++ so...
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20100331 21:22:06< silene> pokhbocee: i have said it several times, just look at the documentation, it is comprehensive, all the interface are detailed (and to answer your question, there is no such thing, but there are unit.x and unit.y)
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20100331 21:24:52< loonycyborg> silene: Do you know much about wesnoth's unit tests? They fail to build with boost 1.42 because exception translators throw boost::execution_exception and it's constructor's signature seems to have changed.
20100331 21:25:21< loonycyborg> Will it be a good idea to make it throw strings directly?
20100331 21:26:14< silene> loonycyborg: no idea (and i must admit that this change of interface doesn't ring a bell and i find it surprising)
20100331 21:27:10< silene> on the other hand, boost.test has always been some kind of problem child, so ishouldn't be that surprised...
20100331 21:29:07< loonycyborg> That constructor isn't even documented. Maybe it isn't part of the interface?
20100331 21:29:25< loonycyborg> (and therefore that code pokes into internals)
20100331 21:30:52< loonycyborg> I'd ask another dev who worked on them, but he doesn't hang out here and even lost his commit rights :P
20100331 21:32:35< silene> loonycyborg: i haven't really used boost.test (even for my boost libraries, i worked around them), but i seem to remember that execution_exception are not supposed to be raised by the tests themselves but they are a result of exception translation; so yes, the constructor may not have been part of the interface
20100331 21:36:36< loonycyborg> The doc says that tests shouldn't throw it, but it doesn't say anything about translators..
20100331 21:37:09< loonycyborg> User-supplied exception translators that is.
20100331 21:42:21< silene> loonycyborg: i think the exception translators from wesnoth.test should just throw std::exception and let boost.test do its job
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20100331 21:43:12< silene> or i guess plain std::string would be fine too
20100331 21:44:01< silene> loonycyborg: do you feel like testing it?
20100331 21:44:20< loonycyborg> I've already have a commit to make it throw std::string in my git-svn repo. I tested it and it fixes compilation.
20100331 21:45:36< silene> good
20100331 21:50:57< crimson_penguin> so who does stuff with dialogs and the objectives dialog in particular? :)
20100331 21:51:43< crimson_penguin> graaahh, stupid gna's upload limits
20100331 21:52:16< silene> crimson_penguin: ?
20100331 21:52:19< loonycyborg> silene: Should I commit it now?
20100331 21:52:32< silene> loonycyborg: if it works, sure
20100331 21:52:36< crimson_penguin> bug #15758
20100331 21:52:49< crimson_penguin> wesbot: bug 15758
20100331 21:52:50< wesbot> Bug #15758  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100331 21:52:50< wesbot> Summary: Horizontal lines drawn when objectives dialog displays
20100331 21:52:50< wesbot> Original submission: When the objectives dialog displays during a game, either
20100331 21:52:53< wesbot>  automatically at the beginning, or by bring it back up from the menu, green (or
20100331 21:52:56< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?15758
20100331 21:52:58< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=8757
20100331 21:53:08< crimson_penguin> finally, got all the files uploaded :P
20100331 21:53:30-!- schumi [~a1184976@gateway/web/freenode/x-nszvdsxcrfptcnof] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100331 21:53:54< silene> crimson_penguin: come on, haven't they been able to fix sdl for macosx yet? (i doubt the bug is in wesnoth)
20100331 21:54:58< crimson_penguin> well upgrading to 1.2.14 from 1.2.13 makes some other awful graphics problems, and also makes the performance drop like a boulder from an airplane
20100331 21:55:21< crimson_penguin> silene: I think mordante thought it actually was in Wesnoth
20100331 21:55:28< crimson_penguin> but that was the 1.2.14 stuff
20100331 21:55:37< crimson_penguin> I mean, my own game actually ran much better with 1.2.14
20100331 22:01:48< CIA-64> loonycyborg * r41911 /trunk/src/tests/main.cpp: Fix compile errors when compiling unit tests using boost 1.42(bug #15717)
20100331 22:04:02< Espreon> wesbot: seen fabi ?
20100331 22:04:02< wesbot> Espreon: The person with the nick fabi last spoke 6h 3m ago.  2h 58m ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20100331 22:07:25< Ivanovic> Espreon: he is currently busy with exams, don't expect him to be around much over the next two weeks
20100331 22:07:49< Ivanovic> esr: what is the current progress on adding dead water to mainline?
20100331 22:07:54< Ivanovic> so far i have not seen it commited
20100331 22:08:11< Espreon> Ivanovic: Oh, OK then.
20100331 22:08:54< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: beetlenaut wanted another week
20100331 22:09:02< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: ah, okay
20100331 22:12:14< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: I submitted to Apple
20100331 22:13:46< crimson_penguin> I submitted without any "changes since last version", for two reasons: one, the game hasn't been listed there for a while, so it won't be relevant for most people, and two, there's no 1.6->1.8 changelog that I know of... and I can always change it later
20100331 22:25:31< CIA-64> loonycyborg * r41912 /branches/1.8/src/tests/main.cpp: Fix compile errors when compiling unit tests using boost 1.42
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20100331 22:30:38-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100331 22:31:14< boucman> hmm
20100331 22:32:44< loonycyborg> boucman: ?
20100331 22:33:17< awilkins_> hmmmm
20100331 22:33:17< boucman> nothing :P
20100331 22:34:13< loonycyborg> hmm
20100331 22:36:22< Crab_> orfest: reading your wiki page...
20100331 22:37:58< awilkins_> Crab_: hey I got to talk to zookeeper very briefly today. Just wanted to say thanks for the direction.
20100331 22:38:30-!- Blueblaze [~nick@99.4.145.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100331 22:38:38< Crab_> awilkins_: no problem, I hope that he showed you some new ways to look at the task :)
20100331 22:40:23< awilkins_> Crab_: sort of, told me that it was more about the preprocessor errors than syntax errors, which was my assumption.
20100331 22:40:44-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-66-200.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100331 22:40:55< Crab_> awilkins_: yes, the first errors are hardest to correct
20100331 22:41:49< awilkins_> Crab_: I tried doing the :inspect command last night. Found out I needed the dev version of the game. Started building from the trunk, but so many missing libraries I never finished : p
20100331 22:41:51< Crab_> awilkins_: since, for example, if our error is in semantics, we can try to add debug output to code to see wtf is going on, and, if the errors is in preprocessing instructions, we cannot do that
20100331 22:42:08-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Quit: WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!]
20100331 22:42:09< Crab_> awilkins_: install wesnoth 1.8 tomorrow :)
20100331 22:42:20< timotei21> hello crab
20100331 22:42:32-!- jdlkem [jdlkem@dhcp-0049561483-86-65.client.student.harvard.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 22:42:36< Crab_> awilkins_: or, as soon as the package for it is available - it will nicely handle all the lib issues :)
20100331 22:42:39< Crab_> timotei21: hello
20100331 22:43:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100331 22:43:29< timotei21> it's 0.43 your time?
20100331 22:43:36< Crab_> 23:43
20100331 22:43:38< awilkins_> Crab_: I think I'm MOSTLY through the lib issues. But we'll see. Might not have time to wait till tomorrow : p
20100331 22:43:45< timotei21> so, still winter time
20100331 22:43:48< awilkins_> Crab_: need to write this proposal soon as possible haha
20100331 22:43:48< timotei21> ?
20100331 22:43:55< Crab_> timotei21: summer time already
20100331 22:44:02< timotei21> oh, ok
20100331 22:44:08< timotei21> well, tomorrow you'll be online?
20100331 22:44:25< Crab_> timotei21: in +23 to +25 h, yes
20100331 22:44:35< Crab_> timotei21: and for a bit during the day (like today)
20100331 22:45:04< timotei21> so we can talk about my proposal, maybe you have to ask/suggest some things
20100331 22:45:19< Crab_> ok
20100331 22:45:27< timotei21> I've talked with fendrin today, and got some new ideas about the editor+ the game, so I've updated the proposal
20100331 22:46:18< Crab_> good.
20100331 22:47:16< Crab_> and, today, I'll try to see why r41895 broke MSVC compilation and how to fix it..
20100331 22:48:30< timotei21> oh, good:D
20100331 22:48:38< timotei21> in the meantime I used linux to compile it :P
20100331 22:48:49< Crab_> that's good :)
20100331 22:48:54< timotei21> I mean... I wished that cmake+make would work almost in the same way on windows
20100331 22:49:05< timotei21> since there are "win32" replicas of linux ones
20100331 22:51:07-!- timotei [~timotei21@193.34.191.4] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100331 22:51:15< timotei> damn internet
20100331 22:51:23-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20100331 22:56:06-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@c146220.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100331 22:56:25< YogiHH> hello
20100331 22:56:37-!- _jbx_ [~jbailey@12.190.80.225] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 22:56:52< Crab_> hi, YogiHH
20100331 22:59:03< timotei> ok crab_. I'm off
20100331 22:59:08< Crab_> timotei: bye
20100331 22:59:08< timotei> good night everyone
20100331 22:59:17< YogiHH> night timotei 
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20100331 23:06:00< pokhbocee>  hey Crab_
20100331 23:06:06< Crab_> hi
20100331 23:06:26< pokhbocee> Crab_: unit.get_location() can be used in lua right?
20100331 23:07:35< Crab_> afair, in lua we have .x and .y
20100331 23:07:52< Crab_> see static int impl_unit_get(lua_State *L) for yourself
20100331 23:08:06< pokhbocee> ??
20100331 23:08:31< Crab_> src/scripting/lua.cpp:780
20100331 23:08:31< pokhbocee> where is it? 
20100331 23:08:35< pokhbocee> ohh ty
20100331 23:08:50< pokhbocee> btw i solved my problem now compiling is enough :D 
20100331 23:08:53< mordante> crimson_penguin, IIRC the problem is that we make assumptions regarding where the bytes of the colours are stored and that might differ from reality
20100331 23:09:01< Crab_> pokhbocee: good for you
20100331 23:09:08< pokhbocee> i just need to use src/wesnoth . :D instead of ./wesnoth
20100331 23:09:24< crimson_penguin> mordante: that sounds reasonable for the 1.2.14 bug, but I don't know about this new one...
20100331 23:09:30< mordante> crimson_penguin, I expect when we shift and mask fields instead all will be fine
20100331 23:09:51< crimson_penguin> hmm
20100331 23:09:59< mordante> the new one?
20100331 23:10:41< pokhbocee> then i will change the implementation of the method. in formula_ai it was with location. im gonna make it with x-y
20100331 23:10:56< crimson_penguin> wesbot: bug 15758
20100331 23:10:57< wesbot> Bug #15758  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100331 23:10:57< wesbot> Summary: Horizontal lines drawn when objectives dialog displays
20100331 23:10:57< wesbot> Original submission: When the objectives dialog displays during a game, either
20100331 23:11:00< wesbot>  automatically at the beginning, or by bring it back up from the menu, green (or
20100331 23:11:03< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?15758
20100331 23:11:05< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=8757
20100331 23:11:16< awilkins_> well I'm off for now. But I'll be back.. if anyone asks haha. 
20100331 23:11:28< pokhbocee> Crab_: are there any other interfaces to use these units etc. ??
20100331 23:11:35< crimson_penguin> it would be nice to know if anyone else can reproduce it
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20100331 23:11:43< mordante> ah that one, I've seen it before and I expect it to be some SDL/graphic card interaction problem
20100331 23:11:58< mordante> IIRC it also happens on Ubuntu for some people
20100331 23:11:59< crimson_penguin> mordante: also note, I'm running on an i386
20100331 23:12:04< crimson_penguin> hmm
20100331 23:12:18< mordante> which OS?
20100331 23:13:36-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100331 23:14:44< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, some other methods accepts the unit as an argument
20100331 23:15:05< crimson_penguin> mordante: Mac OS
20100331 23:15:06< Crab_> pokhbocee: but the things we can get from the unit itself are limited by things which are defined in that function
20100331 23:15:09< crimson_penguin> 10.6.3
20100331 23:15:23< pokhbocee> Crab_: ok ty
20100331 23:15:43< mordante> on a i386??? or do you just mean an intel processor?
20100331 23:15:44< Crab_> for example, move function can accept a unit
20100331 23:16:01< pokhbocee> yes i did it with unit too its kinda simpler
20100331 23:16:01< crimson_penguin> mordante: ok, i686 :P
20100331 23:16:05< pokhbocee> for the user
20100331 23:16:21< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: ehm, there is a list of "most important changes"
20100331 23:16:31< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: have a look at http://wesnoth.org/start/1.8
20100331 23:16:33< Ivanovic> ;)
20100331 23:16:50< mordante> ok, that's why I was confused, didn't expect that Wesnoth would run well on a i386 ;-)
20100331 23:16:56< Ivanovic> and yeah, changelog.wesnoth.org does have all the rest, too
20100331 23:16:59< Ivanovic> ;)
20100331 23:18:12< crimson_penguin> mordante: but for some reason gcc defaults to compiling for i386, even though as you point out, there are no Macs that are x86 but not i686
20100331 23:18:26< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: hmm, maybe I could just take that super brief summary at the top
20100331 23:19:07< mordante> ok that clears the confusion
20100331 23:19:48< mordante> but I've seen the report more often, not sure whether also on PPC Macs, also not sure how many of these are used for Wesnoth
20100331 23:20:50< crimson_penguin> mordante: actually, I can test it with emulated ppc
20100331 23:21:34< mordante> you can try, not sure whether the result will help me much
20100331 23:22:13< Crab_> orfest: ok, regarding 'how you'd allow the wesnoth client to multiplex connections to wesnoth server ?' - my planne d use for this doesn't require GUI, it simply requires something like the ability for the client to encapsulate access to the server in a single c++ object 
20100331 23:22:16< Crab_> orfest: - e.g., then we'll be able to create a vector of such objects, each with his own copy of game state, and take part in multiple games at the same time.
20100331 23:22:43< crimson_penguin> mordante: ah ha! it doesn't happen with emulated ppc
20100331 23:22:59< Crab_> orfest: this will allow wesnoth to be launched in 'gamemaster' mode, to overseer a 'massive multiplayer campaign'
20100331 23:23:45< mordante> hmm ok
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20100331 23:28:10< Ivanovic> i am off to bed, n8 everybody
20100331 23:28:17< Ivanovic> yes, i still plan to announce tomorrow
20100331 23:28:28< Crab_> night, Ivanovic
20100331 23:28:29< mordante> night Ivanovic 
20100331 23:28:33< Ivanovic> plan to do so while drinking my breakfast tea
20100331 23:28:47< Ivanovic> (as in "at about 12:00pm GMT+2")
20100331 23:28:47< crimson_penguin> godnatt Ivanovic 
20100331 23:29:03< mordante> I wanted to guess 1 hour later ;-)
20100331 23:36:03< mordante> I'm off night
20100331 23:36:16< endercoaster> night mordante
20100331 23:36:30-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100331 23:38:01< Soliton> YogiHH: "Look what happened to sauron. His patch wasn't even seriously taken into account, not because it was badly coded or something, but because his idea is not wanted."  how did you come to that conclusion?
20100331 23:38:44< Soliton> surely his patch entry in our tracker couldn't have given you that idea.
20100331 23:39:44< pokhbocee> Crab_: how can i get helper in stdlip or other classes
20100331 23:40:12< Crab_> pokhbocee: see how it's done in wesnoth's campaigns... use wesnoth.require to get this helper
20100331 23:40:22< esr> Ivanovic: shadowmaster twlls me beetlenaut wanta to tweak DW  a bit while it's where he still has commit access.
20100331 23:40:46< YogiHH> Soliton: Because 90% of people who complained about it didn't even look at the patch (or carefully read what sauron wrote about it). Otherwise they would have seen that there was a possibility to play wesnoth just like it was before. However, many contributors didn't see that and instead claimed this would change gameplay completely where it was rather an option. There were more issues, i...
20100331 23:40:48< YogiHH> ...think, but that was the most obvious one, actually.
20100331 23:41:50-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100331 23:42:25< Soliton> is anyone of the people you talk about a coder that would actually review the patch and judge whether it is okay to apply?
20100331 23:42:48< pokhbocee> Crab_: which file in campaigns?
20100331 23:42:49< Crab_> YogiHH, Soliton: well, I looked at the patch, ( https://gna.org/patch/?1269 ), and, after ~3 months of waiting for response to my earlier comment in the patch, marked it as won't do for the reasons that it was incomplete (missing attack prediction changes which are required for the AI to play correctly)
20100331 23:42:51< Soliton> i guess you aren't really talking about the patch at all.
20100331 23:43:18< Soliton> Crab_: exactly which is why that comment is pretty misleading.
20100331 23:45:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: fgrep (or 'find in files' in notepad++) is your friend. for example, see data/scenario-test.cfg +762
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20100331 23:45:45< YogiHH> Soliton: Hmm, that's right, i was talking about the mod and the discussions about it. Bad wording on my side indeed.
20100331 23:45:58< Soliton> YogiHH: alright.
20100331 23:46:46< schumi> Crab_: hi
20100331 23:46:53< Soliton> YogiHH: do you really think that fork will go anywhere?
20100331 23:47:10< Crab_> schumi: hi
20100331 23:47:14< Soliton> YogiHH: and do you have an idea in which way you'd be able to help?
20100331 23:47:16-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 23:47:29< YogiHH> Soliton: I don't know, but i think it is worth a try at least.
20100331 23:47:30< pokhbocee> Crab_ : this scenario-test.cfg is a campaign??
20100331 23:47:41< schumi> Crab_: couldn't find the solution for the bug... could only discover that the problem occurs with the lmap_
20100331 23:47:43< Crab_> pokhbocee: no, as you can see from the file, it's a test scenario
20100331 23:47:54< Crab_> schumi: have you tried most-recent svn ?
20100331 23:48:02< Soliton> YogiHH: worth a try to encourage the guy to see if anything is coming off it? :-)
20100331 23:48:19< YogiHH> :-P
20100331 23:48:25< pokhbocee> ty, i ll use fgrep from now on ty
20100331 23:48:40< schumi> Crab_: I updated it about 6 hours ago
20100331 23:48:54< Crab_> schumi: ok
20100331 23:49:02< YogiHH> Soliton: Well, as there are probably a lot more ideas than coders to implement (as always), so there needs to be some kind of decision process what to implement. I guess i could help with that as well as do some coding here and there or help others get into the code.
20100331 23:50:00 * Soliton guesses the ratio between ideas and coders is approaching infinity.
20100331 23:51:20< YogiHH> yeah, probably :)
20100331 23:51:27< Soliton> a serious approach should start at fixing sauron's patch IMO.
20100331 23:51:59< Soliton> if that is well done i don't think chances are that slim it'd go in at least to see how it goes.
20100331 23:53:26< YogiHH> i see
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20100331 23:56:57< noy> I don't think that its "wesnoth as it is before"
20100331 23:57:03< noy> that patch
20100331 23:57:38-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-15-230-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100331 23:58:29< noy> Having played at least a hundred different implementations of combat resolution systems, how RNG is implemented is one of the core decisions a developer makes. 
20100331 23:58:38< noy> for any game
20100331 23:59:48< noy> I'm actually surprised to some degree we get such a response
--- Log closed Thu Apr 01 00:00:41 2010