--- Log opened Fri Mar 12 00:00:09 2010 20100312 00:02:07-!- Reoz_Dragon [~h0tm4ilsu@cm-84.215.182.243.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20100312 00:02:30-!- Reoz_Dragon [~h0tm4ilsu@cm-84.215.182.243.getinternet.no] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:03:17-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-172-133.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ancestral] 20100312 00:03:54-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host48-66-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 20100312 00:08:44-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-185022.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:09:37-!- OIS [~dont@132.80-202-226.nextgentel.com] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 00:21:20-!- DDR [~chatzilla@jabba.tru.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100312 00:31:15-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:36:18-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-51.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:50:39-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20100312 00:53:17-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:57:36-!- Lancaster [~Miranda@123.115.255.42] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 00:57:41-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 01:04:29-!- wiko [~wiko3@p4FD473B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20100312 01:29:44-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 01:40:24-!- qemqemqem [~quassel@ip70-177-181-137.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20100312 01:44:09-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-51.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20100312 01:50:49-!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 01:52:12-!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 02:04:58-!- vjoe [~vjoe@client-86-25-243-89.mcr-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20100312 02:10:36-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 02:18:26-!- qemqemqem_ [~quassel@ip98-163-102-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 02:49:15< shadowmaster> Gambit: what did you want me for? 20100312 02:51:18< Gambit> when? 20100312 02:51:36< Gambit> Oh earlier someone wanted an MP admin. 20100312 02:51:44< Gambit> But it was many many hours ago. 20100312 02:51:53< shadowmaster> and that involves me how? 20100312 02:52:19< Gambit> oh... deja vu you're not an MP admin -_- 20100312 02:52:27< Gambit> sorry :3 20100312 02:58:13-!- titouu [~c982cf1f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ndfkpwtlddhpmdnn] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 02:59:40-!- titouu [~c982cf1f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ndfkpwtlddhpmdnn] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 03:12:56-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 03:13:36< Euthanatos> Can I get some debugging help =) 20100312 03:13:56< Euthanatos> Wesnoth give em these errors when it loads this mod I'm making of ANL 20100312 03:13:58< Euthanatos> http://filesmelt.com/dl/Screenshot-7.png 20100312 03:14:05< Euthanatos> i'd use pastebin but I can't c/p 20100312 03:15:10< shadowmaster> if you checked your stderr, you could 20100312 03:16:01-!- SwiftrTaylor [~Taylor@222-155-95-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 03:16:07< Euthanatos> hmm 20100312 03:16:10< Euthanatos> where do i find that? 20100312 03:16:16< shadowmaster> operating system? 20100312 03:17:46-!- TaylorSwift [~Taylor@222-155-95-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 03:18:28< Euthanatos> slackware13 20100312 03:18:35< Euthanatos> terminal? 20100312 03:18:42< shadowmaster> of course 20100312 03:18:58-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-51.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 03:19:59< Euthanatos> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/1jpvGxfV 20100312 03:21:09< Euthanatos> The only thing i change were some unit spawns, unit recruitments for AI, and removed the faction_from_recruit key for players 20100312 03:21:16< Euthanatos> since that's what's causing the infamous ANL bug 20100312 03:21:58-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 03:22:27< Euthanatos> but I checked all the shit is the same format as it was 20100312 03:22:51< shadowmaster> the first error is suggesting something 20100312 03:23:31< Euthanatos> i actually didn't even change that line 20100312 03:23:32< Euthanatos> 322 20100312 03:23:38< Euthanatos> it is exactly as it was 20100312 03:23:47< shadowmaster> then pastebin the code or a diff 20100312 03:24:18< Euthanatos> okay wait 20100312 03:24:24< Euthanatos> missed a quote on the line prior 20100312 03:24:44< shadowmaster> good 20100312 03:25:50< Euthanatos> okay 20100312 03:25:57< Euthanatos> i think the other is because i used a slash 20100312 03:26:09< Euthanatos> yup...loads fine now thanks =D 20100312 03:26:41< Euthanatos> it was much less confusing reading it formatted in pastebin than from the in game display 20100312 03:28:03< shadowmaster> yeah, actually, that dialog could use some newlines before every "included from" bit, but I don't know if there would be a way to make a vertical scrollbar appear when it doesn't fit on the screen 20100312 03:28:50< shadowmaster> and the other errors aren't reported to the user for some good reason or flaw 20100312 03:28:53< Euthanatos> Can't it log to a file or give an option to do so? 20100312 03:29:11< shadowmaster> you have just logged it into a file called /dev/stderr :P 20100312 03:30:23< shadowmaster> generally UMC authors will want to pay attention to stderr for many other reasons anyway, not just for chasing parser errors 20100312 03:31:03< shadowmaster> in Windows SDL automatically logs that to /stderr.txt and in other platforms it's generally trivial to run wesnoth attached to a terminal that gives the stderr output 20100312 03:31:17< Euthanatos> yeah i'm just learning WML, trying to mod some of my favorite stuff for practice 20100312 03:32:10< Euthanatos> yeah and I find that if I run my xfce panel from terminal it'll give me error outputs from everything I'm running =d 20100312 03:39:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20100312 03:48:18-!- [NaL] is now known as [EpicIdling] 20100312 03:51:25-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [] 20100312 03:55:29-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@131.181.19.165] has quit [Excess Flood] 20100312 03:56:04-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@131.181.19.165] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 04:05:45-!- unimatrix0 [~unimatrix@adsl-074-236-057-188.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: unimatrix0] 20100312 04:28:54-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2d92f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 04:32:16-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 04:32:52-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20100312 04:55:04-!- DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.196] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 04:59:31-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100312 05:10:09-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-51.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #wesnoth ["Konversation terminated!"] 20100312 05:38:03-!- SwiftrTaylor [~Taylor@222-155-95-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: DOOOM!!! DOOOOMM!!!] 20100312 05:46:25-!- Lancaster [~Miranda@123.115.255.42] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20100312 05:52:33-!- Lancaster [~Miranda@123.115.255.42] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:06:46-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:07:56-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-153-180.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:09:12-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-153-180.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 06:22:30-!- TaylorSwift [~Taylor@222-155-95-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:25:45< Euthanatos> Would someone do me a favor and take a look at this clip of my .cfg file and tell me that I am using variables correctly? 20100312 06:25:46< Euthanatos> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/ur7W0mL4 20100312 06:26:04< Euthanatos> I'm trying to make income a variable that I can modify incrementally later 20100312 06:27:13-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.122.88] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:28:46-!- Mythological_ [Mythologic@77.28.121.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100312 06:29:51-!- [EpicIdling] is now known as [NalluWallu] 20100312 06:33:21-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@131.181.19.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100312 06:36:08-!- DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20100312 06:41:00-!- Lancaster [~Miranda@123.115.255.42] has quit [Quit: Lancaster] 20100312 06:47:14-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20100312 06:47:55-!- eyerouge [~snowdrop@c-7969e555.247-29-64736c16.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:53:55-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@117.204.168.69] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:53:57-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@117.204.168.69] has quit [Changing host] 20100312 06:53:57-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:57:53-!- Cyber_Rock1 [~Ankit@117.204.168.75] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 06:58:28-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20100312 06:58:39-!- Cyber_Rock1 is now known as Cyber_Rock 20100312 06:58:55-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@117.204.168.75] has quit [Changing host] 20100312 06:58:55-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 07:06:09-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 07:08:48-!- Cyber_Rock1 [~Ankit@117.204.160.28] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 07:09:35-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20100312 07:09:43-!- Cyber_Rock1 is now known as Cyber_Rock 20100312 07:09:55-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@117.204.160.28] has quit [Changing host] 20100312 07:09:56-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 07:20:21-!- eyerouge [~snowdrop@c-7969e555.247-29-64736c16.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100312 07:31:34-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-57.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 07:36:27-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100312 07:41:57-!- [NalluWallu] [~Steve@CPE00134642ef27-CM001cea399e32.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: The call of the sleepbringer is strong...] 20100312 07:51:18-!- Sacho [~sacho@95-42-110-191.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100312 08:04:54-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20100312 08:12:17-!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 08:18:28-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-124-191-176-143.oxqn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 08:26:41-!- Hagaren [~kataklizm@109.243.232.138] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 08:46:51-!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 09:00:22-!- krotop [~christoph@smj33-1-82-233-64-163.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 09:09:29-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 09:13:56-!- Hagaren [~kataklizm@109.243.232.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100312 09:17:24-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-172-133.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 09:26:29< ancestral> http://mproud.com/wesnoth/bestiary/dwarvish_fighter.html 20100312 09:31:49< Euthanatos> So apparently the income key on a side tag can't equal a variable? 20100312 09:32:02< Euthanatos> or am i jacking it up? 20100312 09:33:51< zookeeper> correct 20100312 09:33:59< zookeeper> just use [modify_side] instead to change it 20100312 09:34:31< zookeeper> not to mention that [set_variable] doesn't belong in [scenario] like you have it there... 20100312 09:35:04< Euthanatos> it's under a multiplayer tag 20100312 09:35:22< zookeeper> same thing 20100312 09:35:40< Euthanatos> How can I make an event that fires once at the beginning of each turn? 20100312 09:36:05< zookeeper> [event] \n name=new turn \n first_time_only=no 20100312 09:36:27< Euthanatos> new turn =D thanks 20100312 09:36:39< Euthanatos> where do i put these variable declarations? 20100312 09:36:58< zookeeper> in a prestart event 20100312 09:37:19< Euthanatos> okay i can do that 20100312 09:37:46< Euthanatos> Thanks for the help that helps me do something else i was trying to do 20100312 09:38:34< Euthanatos> So I can just use the new turn event to trigger modify side to update each side too equal the variable 20100312 09:38:43< Euthanatos> ? 20100312 09:41:28< zookeeper> sure 20100312 09:41:39< zookeeper> if you want it to happen every turn 20100312 09:44:56-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin] 20100312 09:51:41< Euthanatos> i do because various things will change the variable that are player dependant, So it makes sense it should be updated every turn. 20100312 09:52:12< Euthanatos> Can I use a side key in the new turn event so that it doesn't fire until that AI side starts it's turn that turn 20100312 09:52:26< Euthanatos> and if i do will the income adjustment take effect that turn? 20100312 09:55:20< Euthanatos> do i make any sense? 20100312 09:57:31< Euthanatos> nargh 20100312 09:57:51< Euthanatos> i can't make the income key equal a variable in the modify side tag either can I? =( 20100312 09:59:24< Euthanatos> I'm gonna have to do this a whole different way....but i think it might be just as easy and just the same 20100312 10:00:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-172-133.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 10:01:04-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-172-133.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 10:02:52< zookeeper> Euthanatos, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ReferenceWML -> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML 20100312 10:03:41-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100312 10:05:50< Euthanatos> yes i know there is a lot of information there 20100312 10:06:00< Euthanatos> a LOT 20100312 10:06:01< Euthanatos> lol 20100312 10:06:21< Euthanatos> I've been reading the create guide for months now 20100312 10:17:49-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-185022.reshall.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 10:19:41-!- mich- [~michele@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 10:21:31-!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 10:35:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 10:42:40-!- ancestral [~ancestral@ip70-179-172-133.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ancestral] 20100312 10:53:35-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2d92f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host] 20100312 10:53:35-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 10:56:22< Ivanovic> moin 20100312 11:05:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20100312 11:13:52-!- TaylorSwift [~Taylor@222-155-95-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: DOOOM!!! DOOOOMM!!!] 20100312 11:15:30-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 11:31:51-!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 11:45:28-!- Sacho [~sacho@95-42-68-28.btc-net.bg] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 11:59:07-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B274BB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 12:03:06-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-57.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20100312 12:05:56-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-57.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 12:57:55-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-124-191-176-143.oxqn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 12:59:53-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-124-191-176-143.oxqn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 13:04:33-!- qemqemqem_ [~quassel@ip98-163-102-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] --- Log opened Fri Mar 12 13:33:02 2010 20100312 13:33:14-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 13:33:14-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.6.5 | latest development version: 1.7.14 aka 1.8-beta7 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100312 13:33:14-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Tue Mar 9 14:46:39 2010] 20100312 13:33:14[Users #wesnoth] 20100312 13:33:14[ AnMaster ] [ happygrue] [ lukjad86 ] [ Sacho ] 20100312 13:33:14[ apoi ] [ harryBer ] [ MadMerlin ] [ shadowmaster ] 20100312 13:33:14[ Appleman1234] [ Hellrider] [ Miccoh ] [ shikadibot ] 20100312 13:33:14[ Becquerel ] [ isaac ] [ mich- ] [ Smar ] 20100312 13:33:14[ BenUrban ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Mythological] [ Tesafilmchen ] 20100312 13:33:14[ CookieBite ] [ iwaim ] [ namad7 ] [ Vetinari ] 20100312 13:33:14[ drry ] [ John_R ] [ Nissarin ] [ VurtualRuler98] 20100312 13:33:14[ ettin ] [ Ken_Oh ] [ Queenie ] [ wesbot ] 20100312 13:33:14[ Euthanatos ] [ Kivi ] [ Reoz_Dragon ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 20100312 13:33:14[ fendrin ] [ krotop ] [ retupmoca ] [ zenhoobbit ] 20100312 13:33:14[ fkhodkov ] [ law_ ] [ Rhonda ] [ zookeeper ] 20100312 13:33:14[ G-Lo ] [ lobby ] [ rrix ] 20100312 13:33:14-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 47 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 47 normal] 20100312 13:33:15-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20100312 13:33:18-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20100312 13:33:19-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 13:34:19-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 72 secs 20100312 13:47:43-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 13:54:43-!- Sacho [~sacho@95-42-68-28.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 13:55:09-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-124-191-176-143.oxqn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20100312 13:55:43-!- CookieBite [~3cf18ea2@gateway/web/freenode/x-gkniawtgpjmcciwl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20100312 13:56:57< zenhoobbit> ok now works 20100312 14:36:15-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B274BB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100312 14:43:56-!- Queenie [~teodora@195.252.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 14:44:22-!- Queenie [~teodora@195.252.72.9] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 14:50:47-!- martin___ [~martin@f048050222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 15:06:12-!- Queenie_ [~teodora@host-65-48.3dnet.co.yu] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 15:07:30-!- Queenie [~teodora@195.252.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20100312 15:25:06-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 15:37:01-!- Queenie__ [~teodora@host-73-212.3dnet.rs] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 15:37:37-!- Queenie_ [~teodora@host-65-48.3dnet.co.yu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 15:43:39-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host219-64-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20100312 15:50:41-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host44-69-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 15:54:49-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:05:37-!- martin___ [~martin@f048050222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100312 16:15:52-!- IIcke [~a@wikipedia/chabacano] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:16:39< IIcke> the server is not online, isn't it? 20100312 16:18:16-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B275E40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:19:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:24:30-!- Tomsik [~Tomsik@bde14.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:27:36-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-116-244.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:27:49< Gambit> Is the website down for anyone else? 20100312 16:28:01-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host44-69-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20100312 16:28:07< Rhonda> Gambit: There seems to be DNS issues. 20100312 16:28:29< Rhonda> Unfortunately nothing we can directly do something about. 20100312 16:28:37< Gambit> I checked downforeveryoneorjustme.com and it reports that it's up. 20100312 16:29:10< Gambit> So it's just the domain then. 20100312 16:29:36-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.6.5 | latest development version: 1.7.14 aka 1.8-beta7 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org | DNS server troubles, to access any wesnoth page, use the IP: 65.18.193.12 20100312 16:29:41< Ivanovic> Gambit: better? 20100312 16:29:52< Gambit> Yep that works. 20100312 16:30:06< Ivanovic> this ip can be used for the mp server, as well as for addons and everything on the website 20100312 16:31:24< Gambit> The homepage is bonkers too 20100312 16:31:31< Gambit> it probably can't find the stylesheet :P 20100312 16:33:34< Rhonda> Oh, someone did use absolute links including server name? baaaad people. :) 20100312 16:34:02< Rhonda> baaaaaaaaaad 20100312 16:34:04< Rhonda> baaaaaaaaaaaaadd 20100312 16:34:16< Rhonda> 20100312 16:35:20-!- Sacho [~sacho@95-42-89-175.btc-net.bg] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 16:35:22< Ivanovic> Rhonda: feel free to fix it 20100312 16:38:07< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Not sure how it's done and if there isn't a generator or whatsnot. 20100312 16:38:49< Ivanovic> eg it is done for the g.w.o sites which have a webpage 20100312 16:39:09< Ivanovic> the problem is that those are basically *not* relative to the rest, so using explicit www.wesnoth.org reference makes sense there 20100312 16:40:38< Rhonda> I at least replaced it in the index.html for now 20100312 16:41:42< Ivanovic> okay, that should be enough 20100312 16:49:14-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-57.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20100312 16:52:13< Gambit> domain is back 20100312 16:57:21-!- mich- [~michele@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 17:01:00-!- mich- [~mich-@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:01:52-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:02:40-!- krotop [~christoph@smj33-1-82-233-64-163.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 20100312 17:04:31-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.6.5 | latest development version: 1.7.14 aka 1.8-beta7 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100312 17:09:15-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:09:45-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100312 17:10:06< ghyr-easeus> Hi 20100312 17:10:08-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-185022.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:11:33-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 17:12:01-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:15:00-!- iwaim [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e::1] has quit [Quit: Tiarra 0.1+svn-13084: SIGINT received; exit] 20100312 17:15:11-!- iwaim [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e::1] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:15:43-!- CmdrLee [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:19:21< Gambit> ello 20100312 17:20:42-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:21:22-!- CmdrLee1 [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:23:13-!- CmdrLee [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 17:29:14-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20100312 17:29:59-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 17:33:37-!- Hellrider [~Hell@host186-178-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Hellrider] 20100312 17:37:21-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host44-69-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:39:32-!- Hellrider [~Hell@host186-178-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:41:10-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:41:55-!- CmdrLee1 [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100312 17:42:07-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:42:14< ghyr-easeus> just got BSOD playing 1.7.14 20100312 17:42:27-!- CmdrLee1 [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:46:22-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:48:00-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-185022.reshall.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20100312 17:50:32< Aethaeryn> ghyr-easeus: what OS? 20100312 17:50:50< ghyr-easeus> Windows XP Service Pack 3 20100312 17:51:47< ghyr-easeus> BSOD: Page fault in Nonpaged Area (win32k.sys) 20100312 17:51:50< Aethaeryn> ghyr-easeus: I can't help you, and I'm not a developer, but this channel tends to be inactive. If no one responds, post on the forums, and make sure to include more information (OS is probably the most key) 20100312 17:52:13< Aethaeryn> But IRC is not a chat room and lots of people idle and come back later, so I'd give it about 30 min to an hour before giving up. 20100312 17:52:28< ghyr-easeus> I can see. 20100312 17:52:44< Aethaeryn> The other chan is much more active, but I'm not sure if bug reports technically belong there. 20100312 17:52:50< Aethaeryn> Could always try that if no one responds. 20100312 17:53:24< ghyr-easeus> I don't sure that I should write ANYTHING in #wesnoth-dev 20100312 17:53:29< Aethaeryn> What were you doing at the time? 20100312 17:53:37< ghyr-easeus> Currently? 20100312 17:53:42< Aethaeryn> No, when you got the BSOD 20100312 17:54:10< ghyr-easeus> Playing Wesnoth + downloading archive 20100312 17:54:15< Gambit> And is it replicable. 20100312 17:54:25< Gambit> What specific action while "playing wesnoth"? 20100312 17:54:39< ghyr-easeus> I think that OS is the main reason. 20100312 17:54:42< Gambit> recruiting, right clicking, undo, attacking, etc 20100312 17:55:03< Aethaeryn> Yeah, it's a complicated piece of software. "Playing Wesnoth" is not specific enough. 20100312 17:55:17< ghyr-easeus> Playing campaign "SotBE" 20100312 17:55:24< Aethaeryn> which scenario? 20100312 17:55:41< Aethaeryn> the more specific, the more likely we are to be able to replicate it with someone else who has XP 20100312 17:55:49< Aethaeryn> Unfortunately, my other partition is Vista so I won't be able to. 20100312 17:56:19< ghyr-easeus> My OS giving me BSOD surprise many times 20100312 17:56:38< ghyr-easeus> and I'm *really* angry 20100312 17:56:38< ghyr-easeus> this time 20100312 17:57:02< Gambit> don't hit anything :P 20100312 17:57:16< ghyr-easeus> Nearly completed scenario, andd here this ******* BSOD 20100312 17:57:18< Aethaeryn> I was a Windows ME user. Nothing Windows can throw at me these days, even an occasional BSOD, can anger me quite like the old days. 20100312 17:57:30< Gambit> Sounds like it's time to start your computer over :) 20100312 17:57:40< Gambit> Back up projects and files and pop in the old restore disk 20100312 17:57:43< Aethaeryn> Young people have it easy these days. ;) 20100312 17:57:45< Gambit> or reinstall OS 20100312 17:58:07< Gambit> Annual computer wiping has become a habbit for me 20100312 17:58:26-!- happygrue_ [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 17:58:26< zenhoobbit> hai! 20100312 17:58:28< Aethaeryn> Though if I didn't need to use Windows for Psychology class assignments, I'd probably wipe the partition in pure rage. 20100312 17:58:39< Aethaeryn> Thrice it has failed in installing a service pack. I will try no longer. 20100312 17:58:43-!- happygrue_ [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 17:58:51< Gambit> I used to get a virus about once a year, but now even though I'm more security savvy I still do it for the speed boost 20100312 17:59:13< Gambit> Windows rots so fast D: 20100312 17:59:22< Aethaeryn> Defraging *can* help ;) 20100312 17:59:40< Aethaeryn> I only did Windows for games, but then I bought an Xbox 360. Now if I ever want to do a game, I'll just play that instead. 20100312 17:59:48< Gambit> Not with the inevitable registry errors. 20100312 17:59:48< Aethaeryn> Ironically, Microsoft killed my last reason to use Windows. 20100312 17:59:56< Aethaeryn> Yeah, I could've gotten a PS3, but the irony wouldn't be there. 20100312 18:00:03< Gambit> :P 20100312 18:00:08< Gambit> Just wait until your first RROD 20100312 18:00:21< Aethaeryn> Oh, those are rare these days. 20100312 18:00:28< Aethaeryn> I did ring a DVD of a friend once. 20100312 18:00:37< Gambit> Yes it's down from 50% to 24 :P 20100312 18:00:40< Gambit> ha 20100312 18:00:41< Aethaeryn> I *never* stand my xbox up, always keep it horizontal, because if it falls over the DVD/game is fucked. 20100312 18:00:50< Aethaeryn> Somehow, my friends with their Xboxes haven't learned. 20100312 18:00:57< Aethaeryn> Even though half the time something has been ringed it was on theirs. 20100312 18:01:02< Gambit> Yeah but at the same time you run the risk of overheating if it isn't vertical 20100312 18:01:11< Gambit> My ps2 suffered so many drops while I had it 20100312 18:01:16< Gambit> sometimes from over 6 feet 20100312 18:01:28< Aethaeryn> I had a Gamecube :S 20100312 18:01:36< Gambit> Still works beautifully. 20100312 18:01:44< Gambit> Though the latest drop ruined the network adaptor :$ 20100312 18:01:50< Gambit> I had to buy a slim. 20100312 18:01:57< Aethaeryn> Probably got a Gamecube *because* everyone else I knew had a PS2 and I was often over their houses. 20100312 18:02:10< Aethaeryn> Poor Xbox. No one I knew had one. :P 20100312 18:02:15< Aethaeryn> Very American-centric. 20100312 18:02:16-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@12-2-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100312 18:02:29< Gambit> Yeah almost nobody bought the original xbox that I knew 20100312 18:02:36< Gambit> but now everyone and their brother has a 360 20100312 18:02:44< Gambit> and everyone and their mother has a wii :P 20100312 18:02:54< Aethaeryn> Well, in retrospective, I know someone who has an Xbox at his home, and thus presumably was an Xbox gamer. 20100312 18:03:02< Aethaeryn> But I didn't know him when the Xbox was relavent. 20100312 18:03:12< Aethaeryn> For all I know he got it really cheap to buy bulk used games or whatever 20100312 18:03:33< Aethaeryn> But all in all, I'm not that big of a gamer anymore. 20100312 18:03:37< Gambit> The 360's only selling point was the price. 20100312 18:03:46< Aethaeryn> Which is bullshit. 20100312 18:03:49< Gambit> But if you're an online gamer then that didn't count. 20100312 18:03:50< Aethaeryn> Xbox Live is the biggest hidden fee in the world. 20100312 18:03:54< Gambit> exactly! 20100312 18:04:01< Gambit> You'll have the thing for 4 years -rolls eyes- 20100312 18:04:02< Aethaeryn> I'm probably going Playstation next gen 20100312 18:04:38< Aethaeryn> Somewhere along the line in the past 3 years or so, though, I realized that I enjoy *making* things and *then* playing what I make far more than actually just being a consumer though. 20100312 18:04:47< Aethaeryn> Which is why I mostly just do Wesnoth now. 20100312 18:05:01< Aethaeryn> for some reason, my stuff, no matter how amateurish, is more fun than movie-style high-graphics pro games. 20100312 18:05:30< Gambit> So I figured I'd save for the $400 console that didn't break itself. And by the time I had enough (I actually had enough for a while but my mom didn't want me to spend until I could afford at least three of them so that I'd have savings for other things) it came down to $300 :D 20100312 18:05:32< Aethaeryn> Not meant to be an ego thing, it's kind of a do-it-yourself thing. Building it is half the fun. Perhaps growing up on LEGOs gave me this mentality. 20100312 18:05:47< Gambit> Yep 20100312 18:05:58< Gambit> Games with editors are way more fun 20100312 18:06:11< Aethaeryn> I spent ages on AoE 2 20100312 18:06:16< Aethaeryn> that was when AoE peaked in terms of UMC 20100312 18:06:19< CmdrLee1> @Gambit: agreed 20100312 18:06:33< Aethaeryn> AoE 3 doesn't have nearly as much quality UMC, probably because 3D editors are more complicated. 20100312 18:06:34< Gambit> Tribes 2 <3 20100312 18:06:52-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100312 18:07:08< CmdrLee1> i played a lot of Starcraft UMC...some really great stuff out there 20100312 18:07:12< Gambit> Though at that time my PC could not handle the AI calculations :( 20100312 18:07:17< Aethaeryn> Wolfenstein ET had some good UMC maps/servers, but my friend (again, met after the fact, not while both contemporary) who also always played it (apparently so good a sniper he got kicked for being a bot once) didn't like the UMC maps. 20100312 18:07:42< Aethaeryn> But I'm not very good at 3D/FPS content creation. 20100312 18:07:55< Aethaeryn> So I guess that's why I'm stuck with 2D strategy games :P 20100312 18:08:05< Gambit> In an FPS though you don't have to worry as much about balance 20100312 18:08:23< Aethaeryn> Yeah, but Halo 3's Forge is a gawdawful nightmare of a thing. 20100312 18:08:25< Gambit> players are going to be manipulative ba****** no matter what. 20100312 18:08:30< Gambit> That is not a true editor. 20100312 18:08:38< Aethaeryn> If you are a perfectionist, and try to actually have symmetry or percision, it's like trying to thread a needle. 20100312 18:08:47< Aethaeryn> Which makes Halo bullshit. 20100312 18:08:59< Gambit> I'm waiting for Halo 3 PC :( 20100312 18:09:19< CmdrLee1> especially since each match played in the forge lets other players delete/add/modify stuff at will 20100312 18:09:22< Gambit> My friend tells me the craziest stories about getting kills by blugeoning people with physics meshes :o 20100312 18:09:23< Aethaeryn> Screw PC games. They screwed over PC gamers because of the tighter control and higher profits over console games. 20100312 18:09:29< CmdrLee1> driving along in my tank...*DELETED* 20100312 18:09:59< Gambit> MW2's PC version is the begining of the end 20100312 18:10:14< Gambit> And lol at ubisofts DRM bs 20100312 18:10:22< Aethaeryn> Wesnoth seems to be the ideal pro-UMC game, and even though I've traditionally been RTS and hated turn-based, I love Wesnoth. 20100312 18:10:45< Gambit> I can't keep up in RTS's 20100312 18:10:49< Gambit> I just like to build 20100312 18:10:50< Aethaeryn> But yeah, so much DRM and restrictions and trying to move over console-based paradigms to PC. 20100312 18:11:10< Gambit> so I set the AI to pants on head retarded whilst building my doom fortress 20100312 18:11:21< Gambit> but then they're no challenge when I'm finally ready to fight D; 20100312 18:11:23< Aethaeryn> And since gaming was the only reason for me to dual boot, and since virtualization is moving along that the win2k RTS games I might ever want to play will soon be playable better under Linux than Windows... 20100312 18:11:37< Aethaeryn> I'll probably just wipe the fucking nightmare of an OS on my new computer. 20100312 18:11:41< Aethaeryn> Whenever I get it. 20100312 18:12:04< Aethaeryn> I'm a control/customization kind of person, and so I find Windows absolutely horrid. 20100312 18:12:20< Aethaeryn> (Apple is actually *worse* in this sense though.) 20100312 18:12:59< Gambit> I don't mind window's restrictions, because the things that aren't limited are easy to use 20100312 18:13:07< Aethaeryn> Really, if I could run AoE 1 and 2, some of my favorite games of all time, I'd be happy. 20100312 18:13:22-!- CmdrLee1 [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 18:13:23< Gambit> e.g. I don't have to spend 2 hours typing to install some new hardware 20100312 18:13:27< Aethaeryn> Really, if I could *clone* AoE 2 with Wesnoth-quality 2D art and my own ideas of how I'd make it ground-up, I'd be happy. 20100312 18:13:39< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Misconceptions. 20100312 18:13:54< Aethaeryn> You spend 2 hours trying to install/find software that's not spyware shit. 20100312 18:13:58< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Personal experience. 20100312 18:13:59< Aethaeryn> Especially if you're looking at freeware. 20100312 18:14:05< Gambit> I never did get the graphics tablet working >_> 20100312 18:14:13< Gambit> *on linux 20100312 18:14:15< sevis> Aethaeryn, that's one of my most common ideas :P But I'm nowhere near good enough with code. 20100312 18:14:20-!- Skystriker [~466fe03f@gateway/web/freenode/x-khyvehsgultnhrpo] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:14:30< Aethaeryn> Compared to Linux, where everything's tested/safe and on a centralized repository, Windows is a nightmare to find downloads and keep it all updated. To Microsoft, they only care if you update *their* stuff. 20100312 18:14:45< Aethaeryn> Which thus gets everyone to slow down your computer on start up with their own proprietary update checkers. 20100312 18:14:50< Skystriker> Quick question: is the scenario 'The Cliffs of Thoria' in HttT still impossibly difficult? 20100312 18:15:07< Gambit> Considering the multitude of people who've beaten HttT 20100312 18:15:12< Aethaeryn> So Java, Flash, HP (or other OEM), Apple (iTunes), your antivirus, and everyone else all bottlenecks at the bootup, checking for updates 20100312 18:15:19< Gambit> I'd be inclined to argue that it never was impposibly difficult. 20100312 18:15:23< Skystriker> Gambit: 20100312 18:15:29< Skystriker> Its a 3 choice mission 20100312 18:15:37< Skystriker> For years there were only 2 choices 20100312 18:15:43< Skystriker> Snow Plains/Swamps of Dread 20100312 18:16:01< Skystriker> They added the third one, the cliffs of thoria, and it was widely considered pretty impossibly difficult on the forums 20100312 18:16:10< Skystriker> Basically, 7 level 3 drakes spawn every single turn. 20100312 18:16:12< Gambit> Aethaeryn: ever hear of msconfig? 20100312 18:16:29< Skystriker> And its almost entirely water :P 20100312 18:16:39< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I stopped using Windows as my primary OS half-way through XP's life. So no. 20100312 18:16:53< Gambit> It lets you choose what programs and services are autobooted. 20100312 18:16:59< Aethaeryn> I'm tired of having to use freeware and purchased hacks to fill in voids that Microsoft should have included from the start. 20100312 18:17:09< Gambit> It's not a hack or third party program 20100312 18:17:14< Gambit> It's the built in boot manager :P 20100312 18:17:19< Gambit> start->run->msconfig 20100312 18:17:19< Aethaeryn> There's no sense of an integration that any Mac or Linux person will tell you. An OS is more than just the bare bones core. 20100312 18:17:33< Aethaeryn> So? I'm telling you my reasons why Windows sucks :P 20100312 18:17:50< Gambit> Well it takes care of all those auto updaters :P 20100312 18:17:58< Aethaeryn> Right, and then they wind up out-of-date. 20100312 18:17:58< sevis> Aethaeryn: I strongly disagree with the "more than just the bare bones core" statement there. That's precisely what it should be, imho. 20100312 18:18:02-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:18:30-!- Skystriker [~466fe03f@gateway/web/freenode/x-khyvehsgultnhrpo] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 18:18:38< Gambit> Unless of course your computer belongs to your school and they have some sort of security software that is part of the boot sequence and is hidden from msconfig /insert angry face 20100312 18:18:39< Aethaeryn> sevis: So an OS out-of-the-box shouldn't have a word processor, an IM client, a non-crappy web browser, the music player you'll actually use, etc? 20100312 18:18:49< sevis> Precisely, it shouldn't. 20100312 18:18:54< sevis> One second, it's my turn, will then explain. 20100312 18:19:02< Gambit> Hey hey if you're talking about Windows 7 they were required by law to take those things out 20100312 18:19:02< Aethaeryn> That's a very user-unfriendly approach imo. :P 20100312 18:19:30< Aethaeryn> Gambit: So? Maybe that shows a larger problem with monoculture. 20100312 18:19:57-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:19:59< Aethaeryn> As in, perhaps it would be better if there was a universal binary and no one dominant OS, thus keeping competition and allowing people the flexibility and choice of fitting their own needs. 20100312 18:20:11 * Gambit waits for Google ISP 20100312 18:20:15< Aethaeryn> Of course, policymakers don't understand computers. To them, computers are DOS. :P 20100312 18:20:17< sevis> Okay, back. 20100312 18:20:41< Gambit> They still use DOS at nasa :o 20100312 18:22:04< sevis> I think that the OS should provide as much choice as possible. Whether it comes with X, GNOME and aptitude or bash, wget and a command-line package manager doesn't really matter, as long as you can then go over to the other without too much pain. 20100312 18:22:27< sevis> And the best way to be able to go from point A to point B with minimal pain is to be able to strip the thing down to the very bones. 20100312 18:22:57< Aethaeryn> Right. Nothing wrong with choice. My point is that saying that the OS does *not* consist of the core and most-used programs these days, especially a web browser, is foolish. 20100312 18:23:03 * Gambit wshes windows had something comparable to X's panels. 20100312 18:23:10< Gambit> If the OS doesn't come with a web browser 20100312 18:23:12< Gambit> how do you get one? 20100312 18:23:16< Gambit> xD 20100312 18:23:19< Aethaeryn> FTP via command line 20100312 18:23:22< Aethaeryn> duh 20100312 18:23:32< sevis> One second again. 20100312 18:23:33< Gambit> how do you research the FTP location? 20100312 18:23:34< Aethaeryn> of course, you'd have to Google how to do that 20100312 18:23:39< Aethaeryn> :P 20100312 18:23:41< Gambit> lol 20100312 18:24:01-!- Canageek [~Canageek@d24-141-247-22.home.cgocable.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:24:15< sevis> It isn't foolish at all, imho. When I install on OS, I don't want X to be bundled with it. 20100312 18:24:22< Gambit> Bing: The new way to google things. 20100312 18:24:25< Aethaeryn> ... 20100312 18:24:43< Aethaeryn> sevis: You're in the minority then. Even if I use non-defaults, I want to at least have redundancy to fall back on, so the defaults aren't that bad. 20100312 18:24:59< Aethaeryn> I have GNOME *and* KDE installed, vim *and* emacs (and gedit), Firefox *and* Chrome... 20100312 18:25:15< sevis> I realise some may, so I have nothing against others, but I'd prefer to not be forced into it. 20100312 18:25:19< Aethaeryn> I'd rather have two standards installed than 0 standards. 20100312 18:25:30< Aethaeryn> As long as it enables choice, I see no reason for it not to be included, though. 20100312 18:25:45< Aethaeryn> If I wanted Linux from scratch, I'd use Linux From Scratch. 20100312 18:26:04< Gambit> every time I try to run updates X gets broken and I have to reinstall ubuntu 20100312 18:26:11< Aethaeryn> By using Fedora (or even Ubuntu or Debian or Suse) I'm expecting an easy way to access and install packages, and to have some reasonable defaults that I might be expected to like, but can uninstall and replace if i don't. 20100312 18:26:54< sevis> Aethaeryn, I certainly find that a package manager is important to have these days. Or, at the very least, the immediate possibility to install one. 20100312 18:26:56< Aethaeryn> And the distros themselves are different based on what people choose to like as defaults or packages (and packaging methods) and philosophies. 20100312 18:27:47< Aethaeryn> Regardless, even if I dislike Firefox, I'd like to have Firefox there as a backup, even if it's not going to be my default. 20100312 18:27:51< Aethaeryn> Space is cheap these days. 20100312 18:27:56< Aethaeryn> I have 50 GB free. 20100312 18:28:12-!- Mythological_ [Mythologic@77.28.123.163] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:28:15< Aethaeryn> I will probably never get within 10 GB of full. Only Windows eats space inefficiently. 20100312 18:28:46 * Gambit has 623gb free 20100312 18:28:56< Aethaeryn> I have no problems with having multiple applications that fill the same role installed, but I would still like at least one application that fills that role. Otherwise I don't see the OS as complete. 20100312 18:29:07< Gambit> Wow I can't believe I've used that much space already :s 20100312 18:29:22< Gambit> 327gb :s 20100312 18:29:48-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.122.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20100312 18:29:50< Aethaeryn> sevis: Perhaps we can agree to disagree as to what should be done by default, but can we see common ground that an OS itself isn't complete until you set it up to the point where you have at least one program to fill a common niche? 20100312 18:30:08< sevis> Aethaeryn, of course, if that niche is important to you. 20100312 18:30:13< sevis> Or, actually, let me rephrase that. 20100312 18:30:16< Gambit> i.e. web browsing 20100312 18:30:26< sevis> The OS should have a package manager with a suitable application in it's repositories. 20100312 18:30:29< Aethaeryn> Of course. Obviously if I were not a coder, emacs and vim would be a waste of space... 20100312 18:30:41-!- Canageek [~Canageek@d24-141-247-22.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Tell me why are we/so blind to see/that the ones we hurt/are you and me] 20100312 18:30:57< Aethaeryn> Yes, and I think that the installation CD (or especially DVD), if you want custom installs, should allow you to install it. 20100312 18:31:24< Gambit> Yeah if the installer has optional components then everyone is happy :P 20100312 18:31:26< Aethaeryn> Remember, we're not talking about Windows or Mac OS X. Even if I bought a computer that came with Linux, I'd probably still install the distro of choice from scratch just to make it "clean" and custom 20100312 18:31:31< sevis> Actually, I use vim for more or less everything. 20100312 18:31:40< Aethaeryn> Gambit: There's no way to make just about everyone happy. 20100312 18:31:51< Aethaeryn> For instance, I will anger 50% of coders in this room right now by saying I use emacs. 20100312 18:32:11< sevis> And the DVD should be full to the brim with packages. There should be a second CD that's lightweight, though, imho. 20100312 18:32:15 * Gambit is angered? 20100312 18:32:21< Aethaeryn> I agree 100%. 20100312 18:32:37< Gambit> Real men use notepad! 20100312 18:32:47< Aethaeryn> Real men use gedit? :P 20100312 18:32:51< Gambit> Yes 20100312 18:32:59< Aethaeryn> gedit > notepad 20100312 18:33:01< Gambit> though it is kind of fancy << 20100312 18:33:12< Aethaeryn> Notepad is rather primitive, you'd at least need some kind of extended replacement. 20100312 18:33:16< sevis> Real men use echo. 20100312 18:33:17< Aethaeryn> Kind of like how you'd need Paint.NET and not Paint 20100312 18:33:24< sevis> :P 20100312 18:33:40< Gambit> Real men who are pressed for time sometimes use dreamweaver :$ 20100312 18:33:43< Aethaeryn> real men somehow code only using the command "yes" 20100312 18:33:46< Aethaeryn> And they somehow get it done. 20100312 18:33:58< Gambit> Frontpage is for womenfolk 20100312 18:34:38< Aethaeryn> http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html 20100312 18:34:46< Aethaeryn> This is a good read, speaking of "real men" 20100312 18:34:54< Gambit> Speaking of which, this buisness I'm making a website for, their previous web developer was charging them 50 dollars an hour 20100312 18:35:05< Gambit> and I get in there and look at her files 20100312 18:35:10< Gambit> front page! 20100312 18:35:15< Aethaeryn> People are idiots. 20100312 18:35:41< Aethaeryn> And Microsoft products are the worst to use. Be glad she wasn't using Word. 20100312 18:35:47< Gambit> haha 20100312 18:35:54< Gambit> Powerpoint has web page functionality -_- 20100312 18:35:56< Aethaeryn> I made websites in Word when I was like 10-12 20100312 18:36:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:36:11< Gambit> needless to say I rebuilt the thing from scratch to look exactly like hers did. 20100312 18:36:18< Gambit> Frontpage is a parasite <_< 20100312 18:36:25< Gambit> lol funny link Aethaeryn 20100312 18:36:44< Aethaeryn> Yeah, one of the better Jargon files 20100312 18:36:47< Gambit> My dad programs CNC machines in machine language D: 20100312 18:36:50< sevis> Gambit, what quality is the HTML that Dreamweaver gives? 20100312 18:36:58< Aethaeryn> I'll read the whole website cover to cover so I can link only to the good bits. :P 20100312 18:37:05< Aethaeryn> That's a sign that I'm one bored person. 20100312 18:37:25< Gambit> He showed me some of the code he works with onces, it's just a giant jumble of numbers and letters 20100312 18:37:40< Gambit> each line is a command that tells the tool to move or rotate in some way 20100312 18:37:49< Aethaeryn> :o 20100312 18:37:57< Gambit> sevis: That's the thing, it's just plain ol html 20100312 18:38:11< Gambit> frontpage makes duplicates of everything, and adds all this junk 20100312 18:38:18< Aethaeryn> So does Word 20100312 18:38:25< Aethaeryn> Funny how Frontpage isn't much better than Word 20100312 18:38:44< Aethaeryn> I bet machine language 100x more efficient than Python or Java. You'll run things you never knew your CPU could handle :P 20100312 18:38:52< Gambit> And front page websites can only be hosted with front page enabled hosting companies 20100312 18:39:02< Aethaeryn> Though by the time you write it, the machine will be way obsolete :P 20100312 18:39:23< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Considering the CNC machine has like 6kb of memory and no harddrive, I'd say :P 20100312 18:39:49< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I do see the utility of using something that uses real HTML like Dreamweaver as a time-saver, but I would still go through each line and tweak it by hand. 20100312 18:39:58< Gambit> Though he only has to check the code these days, they got him some nice 3D modeling software that converts his actions into machine code 20100312 18:40:02< Gambit> he tweaks speeds and what not 20100312 18:40:36< Aethaeryn> I don't trust shortcuts. 20100312 18:40:45< sevis> Hmm, didn't know they already made it that good, nice. 20100312 18:41:42< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Real programmers teletype machine code, not using some kind of 3D shortcut. ;) 20100312 18:41:52< Aethaeryn> Yes... teletype machine code. 20100312 18:41:58-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100312 18:43:42< Gambit> he told me about someone who made a typo once 20100312 18:43:52< Gambit> the piece shot out of the machine and right through the wall 20100312 18:44:01< Aethaeryn> LOL 20100312 18:44:10< Aethaeryn> Computers should *still* do that if someone typos 20100312 18:44:29< Aethaeryn> Intro to programming classes would be much more entertaining 20100312 18:44:48< Gambit> that was an ancient machine 20100312 18:44:58< Gambit> I'm not sure if they still let that happen or not :P 20100312 18:45:53< Gambit> And most intro to programming classes will be teaching you about software, not about giant cutting tools :P 20100312 18:46:47-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@233-50-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:46:56-!- ghyr-easeus [~kvirc@233-50-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 18:47:11< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Oooh... You didn't say it was a *cutting* tool! That would make it even *more* interesting. Comp sci enrollment would triple! :P 20100312 18:48:25< Gambit> I want to buy a 3D printer 20100312 18:49:19< Aethaeryn> I want to buy a self-replicating 3D printer that can print itself. 20100312 18:49:27< sevis> That would raise pirating to a new level. 20100312 18:49:31< Aethaeryn> Exactly. 20100312 18:49:38< Aethaeryn> I hope one day to pirate a Lambo. 20100312 18:49:46< Gambit> They have that kind of thing already 20100312 18:49:55< Gambit> as soon as you set it up it starts printing it's plastic parts 20100312 18:49:58< Gambit> *its 20100312 18:50:06< Aethaeryn> I'm not sure I'd want to go > 60 MPH in a pirated Lambo though... 20100312 18:50:15< Aethaeryn> That would bring malware to a whole new level. 20100312 18:50:38< Aethaeryn> ("Let's remove the breaks from the specs before spreading this for lulz.") 20100312 18:51:11< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I know they are working on some very basic conceptual things, but I'm hoping for a viral/open-source one. 20100312 18:51:20< Gambit> With a 3D scanner, 3D printer, and some modeling paint, I wouldn't have to buy copies of miniatures anymore. 20100312 18:51:25< Aethaeryn> As in, one that is capable enough to constantly be tweaked and improved, to the point where it can eventually print many useful things. 20100312 18:51:38< sevis> Gambit, which minature game system do you play? 20100312 18:51:54< Gambit> sevis: I've collected quite a bit of Heroscape 20100312 18:52:04< sevis> Hm, not heard of it, sorry. 20100312 18:52:08< Gambit> It has a level editor xD 20100312 18:52:10< Gambit> lolololol 20100312 18:52:13< Aethaeryn> too bad I know nothing about hardware hacking and have pretty much no talent in that area. 20100312 18:52:18< Gambit> It comes with these interlocking/stacking hexes 20100312 18:52:22< Aethaeryn> I would *really* enjoy an open source 3D printer. 20100312 18:52:29< Gambit> so you can build battlefields 20100312 18:52:29< Aethaeryn> It would enable a true open source paradigm to hardware. 20100312 18:52:33< Gambit> as well as collect the minis 20100312 18:52:38< Gambit> Made by Hasbro 20100312 18:53:02< sevis> Hm, might check it out, but like most of that stuff, I bet there's nobody else here that plays it >.< 20100312 18:53:13< Gambit> Often times I'll spend 2-3 hours setting up a map all over my floor 20100312 18:53:25< Gambit> and then neither of my sibling will want to play 20100312 18:53:27< Gambit> :( 20100312 18:53:36< Gambit> Then it takes an hour to clean up 20100312 18:54:30-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 18:54:39< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Kind of reminds me of Axis and Allies. 20100312 18:54:40< Gambit> But what sucks is that Wal-Mart will no longer buy Heroscape :( 20100312 18:54:46< Gambit> and there are no toysRus's around here 20100312 18:54:57< Aethaeryn> Freshmen year, a bunch of my friends as well as my roommate got together, spent a long time setting it up and being explained the rules... 20100312 18:55:03< Gambit> Hasbro kept giving all the exclusive figures to ToysRUs and wal-mart got ticked 20100312 18:55:22< Aethaeryn> And then my roommate got bored turn 2, and so we had to put away Axis and Allies. 20100312 18:55:29< Aethaeryn> Which took almost as long as to set up and play the first two turns :P 20100312 18:55:33< Gambit> heh yeah 20100312 18:56:08-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20100312 18:56:46< Gambit> Heroscape actually takes longer to set up than to play after a certain point 20100312 18:56:52< Gambit> Once you get your second starter kit 20100312 18:57:19< Gambit> and once you start designing castles 20100312 18:57:33< Gambit> but it's so much fun to setup 20100312 18:57:35< sevis> Hmm, I like the sound of it. 20100312 18:58:27< Aethaeryn> I do like building things, always was a LEGO person. 20100312 18:58:31< Gambit> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/4170626711_d3c1bc7496.jpg 20100312 18:58:37< Gambit> see how they interlock ant stack? 20100312 18:58:45< Aethaeryn> But life circumstances prevents me from doing things that require space... thus all digital now. 20100312 18:58:55< Gambit> hmm looks like that person took the door from the castle set and put it on the outside of a cave 20100312 18:58:56< Aethaeryn> Does look pretty interesting though. 20100312 18:59:19< Aethaeryn> Looks better than I expected. 20100312 18:59:23< Aethaeryn> Relatively tiny though? 20100312 18:59:41< Aethaeryn> That would be maybe 1/6th of a small Wesnoth map :P 20100312 18:59:51< Gambit> Because they built vertically 20100312 18:59:59< Gambit> and it looks like they only have one starter kit 20100312 19:00:19< Gambit> You can make sprawling praries are 7x7 feet 20100312 19:00:20< Aethaeryn> Yeah, they built very vertically 20100312 19:00:30< Aethaeryn> I would like Wesnoth to have some sense of height. 20100312 19:00:35< Gambit> There was this cool picture on a fan site 20100312 19:00:39< Gambit> someone bought 20 starter kits 20100312 19:00:40< Aethaeryn> That's the only thing it's missing vs. traditional wargames 20100312 19:00:41< Aethaeryn> height. 20100312 19:00:44< Gambit> and recreated the mines of moria 20100312 19:00:48< Aethaeryn> LOL. 20100312 19:00:50< Gambit> they had a giant empty room 20100312 19:00:55< Aethaeryn> Awesome. 20100312 19:00:56< Gambit> devoted to it 20100312 19:01:15< Aethaeryn> Sounds kinda like something I'd do with LEGOs if I had lots of money and was 'grown up' 20100312 19:01:29< Aethaeryn> Haven't touched LEGOs in years, but I definitely would if I could devote a room to an epic LEGO thing. 20100312 19:01:48< VurtualRuler98> Legos are fun. 20100312 19:02:06< VurtualRuler98> Also, if you have to be that strict about the name, it's "LEGO bricks" 20100312 19:02:17-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:02:28< Aethaeryn> I'm not that strict about the name, but software-using habits makes me more aware about the capitalization of things. 20100312 19:02:31< norbert_> under GNU/Linux (Debian stable; Gnome, X11), how can I copy from the chat log (alt-c) ? 20100312 19:02:36< Aethaeryn> Like UNIX, my mind is case-sensitive :P 20100312 19:03:23< Gambit> If you want to be strict AND danish 20100312 19:03:27< Gambit> It's Play Well Bricks 20100312 19:03:31< Aethaeryn> XD 20100312 19:04:07< VurtualRuler98> According to the internet it's "spiller godt mursten" 20100312 19:04:12< norbert_> any Linux users who ever wondered, why can't I copy from the chat log? 20100312 19:04:17< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Or if you want to be very strict AND latin... 20100312 19:04:28< VurtualRuler98> Nah not me. 20100312 19:04:28< Aethaeryn> It's I choose/select/appoint; collect/gather bricks :P 20100312 19:04:37< VurtualRuler98> Because I use mIRC. 20100312 19:04:41< Gambit> is the keyboard shortcut ctrl+c? 20100312 19:04:43< Gambit> Not alt+c? 20100312 19:04:56< norbert_> no, alt-c is to bring up the chat log 20100312 19:04:59< Aethaeryn> norbert_: I use irssi in the terminal, so I just ctrl+shift+c... the standard is ctrl+c 20100312 19:05:02< norbert_> ctrl-c won't copy 20100312 19:05:04< Gambit> yeah but ctrl+c is to copy 20100312 19:05:15< Aethaeryn> The *worst* mitsake a Linux user can make is to assume everyone on Linux uses one particular piece of software. 20100312 19:05:15< norbert_> it doesn't copy 20100312 19:05:20< Gambit> copying doesnt work on windows wesnoth :( 20100312 19:05:22< Aethaeryn> There's always at least a duopoly. Always. 20100312 19:05:28< Aethaeryn> oh 20100312 19:05:32< Aethaeryn> damn. Wesnoth chat log 20100312 19:05:35< sevis> norbert_: shift+insert can work on some programs. Ctrl+C interrupts, if you're running from a terminal. 20100312 19:05:43< Aethaeryn> I was thinking about IRC, not that this is #Wesnoth XD 20100312 19:05:48< Aethaeryn> damn it. 20100312 19:05:50< sevis> Most universal thing I've seen is selecting the text then using the middle mouse button. 20100312 19:06:13< sevis> And, w00t, Aethaeryn, same client :D 20100312 19:06:26< norbert_> middle mouse won't work either 20100312 19:06:49 * Gambit always preferred knex to legos 20100312 19:07:20< Aethaeryn> idk, legos always seemed my preferred method of building. 20100312 19:07:26< Aethaeryn> So many possibilities. 20100312 19:07:49< Gambit> You know lego released a virtual lego editor for free 20100312 19:08:05< VurtualRuler98> Real men use wood and nails and a saw. 20100312 19:08:40< sevis> Real men use unpolished and uncut stones. 20100312 19:08:41< Aethaeryn> Real men use 10,000 Egyptian laborers and giant stone carried by boat down the Nile to build... 20100312 19:08:42< VurtualRuler98> I actually did end up crafting little APCs and stuff from wood, and still have a wooden shield I spraypainted as a kid. 20100312 19:08:49< Gambit> Real men put commas in their lists. 20100312 19:09:17 * Gambit made a miniature mud town once 20100312 19:09:27< Gambit> xD 20100312 19:09:52< Gambit> Well mud/sand 20100312 19:09:53< VurtualRuler98> Real men use doom. 20100312 19:10:09< Gambit> The spell from FF12? har har 20100312 19:10:30< VurtualRuler98> Pushing the doom engine to its limit with so many barrel-copying sprites everywhere. 20100312 19:10:37-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has left #wesnoth ["Leaving"] 20100312 19:10:42< VurtualRuler98> And why not have cash registers and computers explode? 20100312 19:11:11< Gambit> Real men abandoned the Doom engine for the Unreal engine after UDK was released. 20100312 19:11:25< Aethaeryn> Real men use the Wolf3D engine. Everything later is just an immitation. 20100312 19:11:57< Gambit> Real men make up lists of things that real men do. 20100312 19:11:58< Gambit> xD 20100312 19:13:13< VurtualRuler98> Real men use Zork. 20100312 19:13:31< VurtualRuler98> And also real men prefer engines derived from Quake over Unreal. 20100312 19:14:09< Gambit> Actually I think we're all wrong. 20100312 19:14:21< Gambit> A real man would develop his own engine. 20100312 19:14:23< Aethaeryn> Real men prefer text-only adventure game engines, or terminal-based nethack if they're particularly bold... 20100312 19:14:32< Aethaeryn> Oh, right, programmed in machine code. 20100312 19:14:42< VurtualRuler98> Real men speak in machine code. 20100312 19:14:43< Aethaeryn> And played over teletype 20100312 19:14:57< Aethaeryn> real men don't need monitors. they never make mistakes. 20100312 19:14:57< VurtualRuler98> 0000 0000 0000 0000 20100312 19:15:34< VurtualRuler98> Real men don't have any input or output from their computer, except a wire cable which they absorb information from, and one to input information with, using their mind. 20100312 19:15:48< Gambit> Real men even use machine code. They use rocks. http://xkcd.com/505/ 20100312 19:15:50< Aethaeryn> Real men use butterflies. 20100312 19:15:59-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:16:25< Aethaeryn> http://xkcd.com/378/ 20100312 19:16:59< VurtualRuler98> Real men use smoke signals. 20100312 19:17:12< VurtualRuler98> No actually, real men discover what's trapped under my K key for me. 20100312 19:18:40< Gambit> *don't even use 20100312 19:18:47-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20100312 19:19:28< Gambit> Real men remember that they need to get back to work so they can get chemistry done and play FF13 20100312 19:19:47< Gambit> *chemistry and latin 20100312 19:20:52< Gambit> Real men don't talk about themselve in third person. Ha! 20100312 19:21:13< Becquerel> Real men don't play Final Fantasy. :P 20100312 19:21:21< Gambit> ouch 20100312 19:21:50< Aethaeryn> Real men play Wesnoth. :P 20100312 19:24:00< Aethaeryn> (Real men rewrite Wesnoth in assembly for lulz?) 20100312 19:24:30< Gambit> Question: Do real men name their computers? 20100312 19:24:42< Becquerel> Real men port Wesnoth to this platform: http://www.menuetos.net/ :) 20100312 19:24:43< happygrue> http://dragon.facetieux.free.fr/jdr/Munchkin.htm 20100312 19:24:53< sevis> Munchkins! :D 20100312 19:25:20< happygrue> I think a wesnoth "real men munchkins looneys and real wesnoth players" would be fun ;) 20100312 19:28:21-!- Deformative [~joe@bursley-185022.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:28:46< Aethaeryn> Real men don't play Wesnoth, they *reenact* Wesnoth. 20100312 19:29:19< Gambit> Becquerel: interesting 20100312 19:29:27< Gambit> a 4th OS 20100312 19:29:42< sevis> Fourth? 20100312 19:30:19< Gambit> okay so there are many many many many more 20100312 19:30:19< VurtualRuler98> Real men base jump off the Burj Dubai. 20100312 19:30:56< Gambit> real men use the term "base jump" in reference to Just Cause and not modern warfail? 20100312 19:31:25-!- Queenie_ [~teodora@host-73-207.3dnet.rs] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:31:33< Gambit> actually real men base jump irl xD 20100312 19:31:49< Aethaeryn> sevis: Well, if you categorize it into UNIX (Mac OS X, Linux, BSD, etc.), Windows (Windows), and presumably one other... then it's the fourth :P 20100312 19:31:56< VurtualRuler98> I was talking about the actual building. 20100312 19:31:57< Aethaeryn> There's got to be one other type of popular OS ;) 20100312 19:32:12< VurtualRuler98> Also seeing that everyone cares about just cause makes me feel less addicted. 20100312 19:32:23< sevis> Erm... And what'd be the third? :P 20100312 19:32:35< VurtualRuler98> The third is mac obviously. 20100312 19:32:41< Aethaeryn> But Mac is UNIX 20100312 19:32:48< sevis> Mac is already in UNIX. 20100312 19:32:51< Aethaeryn> It even ends in *X 20100312 19:32:59< VurtualRuler98> Are you telling me that the natural order of three OSes is wrong? 20100312 19:33:01< Aethaeryn> Which makes it more UNIX standard-compliant than BSD ;) 20100312 19:33:12< sevis> Natural order? 20100312 19:33:19-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B275E40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 19:33:24< VurtualRuler98> That's like having only Terran and Protoss because the Zerg contains Protoss! 20100312 19:33:34< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Mac OS X is, iirc, based off of Free BSD and includes a lot of other open source stuff at its core, Darwin 20100312 19:33:58< sevis> No... That's like having Terran and Protoss because Protoss contains Zerg. It doesn't, but if it did, it'd make perfect sense. 20100312 19:34:00< Aethaeryn> personally, I would've chosen OpenBSD... 20100312 19:34:13< sevis> As a third OS? 20100312 19:34:27< happygrue> wesnoth on the iphone? 20100312 19:34:37-!- Queenie__ [~teodora@host-73-212.3dnet.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 19:34:37< Aethaeryn> iPhone is a slimmed down and restricted Mac OS X 20100312 19:34:40< Aethaeryn> so... still UNIX 20100312 19:34:43< Gambit> Real men contemplate what the world would be like if Java had succeded in its original purpose 20100312 19:34:51< Aethaeryn> Gambit: So true. 20100312 19:35:04< Aethaeryn> Gambit: We should sue them for false advertizing. 20100312 19:35:11< Gambit> A smoke alarm that causes your alarm clock to go off, and TV to turn on full volume. 20100312 19:35:15< happygrue> Aethaeryn: yeah, but it is still different enough to require porting 20100312 19:35:51< sevis> happygrue, Wesnoth on Solaris would require porting, but Solaris is still UNIX. 20100312 19:36:04< sevis> Heck, Wesnoth on UNIX would need porting, but UNIX is most certainly UNIX. 20100312 19:36:21< sevis> (UNIX-family*, might be a better term) 20100312 19:36:22< VurtualRuler98> A smoke alarm that turns on the toaster, making you fresh pop tarts so you don't feel so bad about your house being on fire. 20100312 19:36:35< Gambit> Of course before wireless, every appliance would have had to plug into a phone jack xD 20100312 19:36:44< Gambit> well I guess there's radio 20100312 19:36:48< Gambit> or IR 20100312 19:36:54-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 19:37:06< sevis> Gambit, are you assuming all Java is internet-based? 20100312 19:37:10< VurtualRuler98> You know, before the telegraph, people had to communicate by physical objects. 20100312 19:37:10-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:37:14< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: What puts the pop tarts in the toaster :o 20100312 19:37:19< VurtualRuler98> A robot does. 20100312 19:37:34< VurtualRuler98> Actually that's kinda depressing. 20100312 19:37:48< Gambit> sevis: No. 20100312 19:37:58< VurtualRuler98> And until recently, there was no groundwork for fast, instant comunication, and then it took ages for people to use it. 20100312 19:38:24< sevis> Then I don't see why you'd need a phone line for everything. 20100312 19:38:59< Gambit> Well back in the original days of development how would they have communicated? 20100312 19:39:23< VurtualRuler98> A series of local pneumatic tubes filled with plain water. 20100312 19:40:00< Gambit> I think Java predates the internet. 20100312 19:40:09< sevis> Why would they need to communicate? O_o 20100312 19:40:28< Gambit> That's what Java was orignally supposed to be! 20100312 19:40:33< sevis> For a computer, USB/Firewire/whatever was the standard then. 20100312 19:40:33< Gambit> Appliances that could talk to each other :P 20100312 19:41:10< sevis> Ermmm. I was taught that Java was for writing code for embedded systems, to avoid having to write compilers for every individual system. Or something pretty close to that. 20100312 19:41:18< sevis> Never really looked into it, so could be mistaken. 20100312 19:41:47< sevis> Basically that you wrote your code, it got translated to bytecode, and then the Java virtual machine ran it. 20100312 19:41:49< Aethaeryn> Communicating pre-Internet? 20100312 19:41:54-!- SekoIdiootti [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:42:08< Aethaeryn> Ever see that scene in LotR where they light the beacon and someone has to be on each intermediary station to light each one? 20100312 19:42:14< Aethaeryn> That's how they communicated. 20100312 19:43:08< Aethaeryn> Good montage, but remember, there had to be a guard at each post to look out for a signal that's maybe lit once every century. 20100312 19:43:21< Aethaeryn> In the middle of the mountains. 20100312 19:43:26< VurtualRuler98> Just make them have a reason to be there. 20100312 19:43:28< Gambit> okay no it doesn't predate the internet 20100312 19:43:29< VurtualRuler98> Like free food. 20100312 19:43:31 * Gambit is mixing things up 20100312 19:43:32< Gambit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) 20100312 19:43:54< VurtualRuler98> and women 20100312 19:44:53< sevis> Errm. "In 1991, Sun Microsystems was attempting to develop a new technology for programming next generation smart appliances," 20100312 19:45:10< sevis> That's all the article says on the matter of what it was meant for, as far as I can tell. 20100312 19:45:22< VurtualRuler98> For a vital alarm system, you could send worn out guards there, and make it a resort, with 15 minute shifts on watching for the signal 20100312 19:45:29 * Gambit is trying to find a better link 20100312 19:45:30-!- mich- [~mich-@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 19:45:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 19:45:56< sevis> The article linked is a little better: "Engineer Patrick Naughton had become increasingly frustrated with the state of Sun's C++ and C APIs" 20100312 19:46:31-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:46:35< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Free women? That's an impossibility. 20100312 19:47:06< Gambit> not if you have a coupon 20100312 19:47:19< Aethaeryn> They always drain your money, even if you don't notice. 20100312 19:47:45< VurtualRuler98> They drain the resort fund money 20100312 19:49:29< Aethaeryn> Wow, UIs have come a long way from nethack 20100312 19:49:52< Gambit> sevis: I dunno I originally read about the interapplaince communication thing in a book "The Complete Idiots Guide to Java" or some such thing. 20100312 19:50:28< Gambit> That is an odd title. Is it a complete guide for idiots, or a regular guide for complete idiots? 20100312 19:50:53< VurtualRuler98> It's both. 20100312 19:51:04< VurtualRuler98> Regular idiots are smart enough for it to be "complete" 20100312 19:51:15< VurtualRuler98> While complete idiots are dumb enough that it's only as strong as a regular guide. 20100312 19:51:20< VurtualRuler98> I wouldn't trust a book either way. 20100312 19:51:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 19:51:31-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 19:51:35< Aethaeryn> books? those things outdate before they're even published. 20100312 19:51:51< VurtualRuler98> History books try to say that the flat earth theory was "common sense" around Columbus' times. 20100312 19:52:02< sevis> I would trust a book written by the language's creator. I have mild hope he has at least some clue of what's going on. 20100312 19:52:14< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Didn't the ancient Greeks prove the world was spherical? 20100312 19:52:35< Becquerel> little did they know that it is actually toroidal 20100312 19:53:17< VurtualRuler98> Yeah. 20100312 19:53:21< VurtualRuler98> And Carl Sagan said so. 20100312 19:53:44< Gambit> Aethaeryn: perhaps the work of the ancient greeks was not well known in that time. The further we go into the future, the more of the distant past we uncover. 20100312 19:53:45< Aethaeryn> Becquerel: I hesitated at saying "spherical" but I went ahead anyway :P 20100312 19:55:08< Gambit> We know more about time periods now than civilizations that lived closer in time to them. 20100312 19:55:09< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Maybe they thought that the Earth was the center of the universe or something, but not that the Earth was flat. 20100312 19:55:36< Gambit> Of course history books also say that America is the greatest country in the world 20100312 19:55:42< Aethaeryn> Because it is. 20100312 19:55:51< Gambit> and economics books go on and on about how amazing market economies are 20100312 19:55:53< Aethaeryn> *In terms of GDP 20100312 19:56:35< Aethaeryn> And if generating wealth (making $) is your primary goal, there's no better system. 20100312 19:57:00< Gambit> If primary = only maybe 20100312 19:57:08< Gambit> There's a seconday goal of protecting your people 20100312 19:57:12< Gambit> mixed is the way to go. 20100312 19:57:32< Gambit> You know this conversation started with someone getting the BSOD... 20100312 19:57:47< Gambit> lol each topic had a tiny link to the next xD 20100312 19:58:32< Aethaeryn> Yes. 20100312 19:58:59< Aethaeryn> And it's been going on constantly for over 2 hours, but with different participants 20100312 19:59:10< Aethaeryn> Though we've been constant. 20100312 19:59:27< Gambit> Back in that time do you think they even knew about the universe? 20100312 19:59:56< Aethaeryn> There was always some school of thought that was more right than you might think in some aspect, like knowing about atoms 20100312 19:59:58< Gambit> With the earth being the center of everything 20100312 20:00:17< Aethaeryn> The thing is, there were thousands of schools of thought, so it's kind of like lots of monkeys on typewriters 20100312 20:00:33< Aethaeryn> You'll find pieces of things later proven true among lots of ancient thinkers. 20100312 20:00:40< Gambit> The way they came to contemplate atoms was wrong though 20100312 20:00:41-!- norbert_ [~norbert_@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:00:48< Gambit> now we find that you can, in fact, divide them :P 20100312 20:00:50< Aethaeryn> Yeah... 20100312 20:01:01< Aethaeryn> Though the world would be better off if we didn't find that out. :P 20100312 20:01:06-!- IIcke [~a@wikipedia/chabacano] has left #wesnoth ["Ex-Chat"] 20100312 20:01:29< Gambit> I dunno. I think this electricity outweighs the weaponization 20100312 20:01:34< Gambit> *the electricity 20100312 20:01:59< Gambit> And now we know that you can divide the things that you divide atoms in to! 20100312 20:02:17< Gambit> Well we can't actually divide them (?), but we theorize that there are parts smaller yet. 20100312 20:02:22< Aethaeryn> Uh... 20100312 20:02:31< Aethaeryn> The electricity = Chernobyl and Three Mile Island? :P 20100312 20:02:54< Aethaeryn> And a big waste problem that won't go away for millions of years? 20100312 20:03:28< Aethaeryn> Gambit: And yes, the philosophers in the end won out who thought you could keep dividing things ;) 20100312 20:03:37< Gambit> Recycle into mortar shells! 20100312 20:03:39< Gambit> haha 20100312 20:03:51-!- CmdrLee [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:03:54< Aethaeryn> Recycle into things we drop on foreign countries so it lasts millions of years there? Good idea. ;) 20100312 20:04:00< Gambit> XD 20100312 20:04:04< norbert_> does anyone know what the greenish hex means http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6843/greenish.png 20100312 20:04:47< Aethaeryn> "No state will take our nuclear waste to dispose of. What do we do?" "Dump them in another country?" 20100312 20:05:07< Aethaeryn> norbert_: fog/shroud indicators. 20100312 20:05:11< Aethaeryn> that might mean fog only. 20100312 20:05:18< Aethaeryn> maybe 20100312 20:05:38< Gambit> Launch it into space! 20100312 20:06:57< Gambit> hmm it also looks like it gets recycled into tank armor 20100312 20:07:01< Aethaeryn> Yes. Let it be a problem for someone *else*, whether it be extraterrestrials or ourselves in the future. 20100312 20:07:06< Aethaeryn> By launching it into space. 20100312 20:07:14< Aethaeryn> Launch it into the Sun and see what happens? 20100312 20:07:14< Becquerel> Unlikely. 20100312 20:07:34< Becquerel> There's plenty of room in space. 20100312 20:07:53< Aethaeryn> Right, nothing in space never lands on a planet or moon 20100312 20:07:59< Gambit> Launch it into the closest star that isn't our sun and see what happens 20100312 20:08:01< Gambit> if all goes well 20100312 20:08:05< Gambit> launch it into the sun :P 20100312 20:08:08< Becquerel> Aethaeryn: Not if we aim it right :) 20100312 20:08:12< Aethaeryn> Gambit: So it will only take 1 light year to test it otu. 20100312 20:08:26-!- norbert_ [~norbert_@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 20:08:27< Gambit> though it might actually be gone by the time it got there. 20100312 20:08:29< Aethaeryn> Becquerel: Do you trust NASA engineers to aim it right? After all the manned space vessels they have lost over the years? 20100312 20:08:35< Becquerel> <_< 20100312 20:08:36< Becquerel> >_> 20100312 20:09:05-!- CmdrLee [~sbarnesis@165.139.208.1] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 20:09:27< Gambit> yes! brillaint 20100312 20:09:35< Gambit> launch it at a star that is 4.468 billion years away 20100312 20:09:54< sevis> light years, you mean? 20100312 20:09:57< Gambit> then there will only be half as much 20100312 20:10:18< sevis> Ah.. xD 20100312 20:10:19< Gambit> sevis: whatever distance that takes 4.468 billion of our years to travel 20100312 20:10:19< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Assuming no object is in its way : 20100312 20:10:37< Aethaeryn> Why not just launch it into a black hole for lulz? 20100312 20:10:40< sevis> But unless other forces influence it, anything can be that far away. 20100312 20:10:53-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:11:12< Gambit> Send it through the stargate. 20100312 20:11:16< Gambit> hur 20100312 20:11:31< Gambit> OR just lay it in front of the startgate when you turn it on 20100312 20:11:43< Gambit> there are so many interesting things that show could have done 20100312 20:13:02< Aethaeryn> Send it to NBC Universal headquarters for butchering both Sci Fi Channel (now "syfy") and Stargate.. 20100312 20:15:07< Aethaeryn> Along with numerous other crimes against humanity. 20100312 20:15:24< Aethaeryn> They can store the nuclear waste in their basement, and actually do something useful for once. 20100312 20:17:25< Gambit> This might sound dumb, but what if you nuked it? 20100312 20:17:27 * Gambit hides 20100312 20:17:41< sevis> It'd probably become even more radioactive? 20100312 20:18:05< Gambit> So it'd decay faster :D 20100312 20:18:42< Aethaeryn> Plus, we'd get rid of nuclear weapons in the process, which is a good thing. 20100312 20:18:53< Aethaeryn> But where would we nuke the nuclear waste? 20100312 20:20:29< Aethaeryn> The problem of location is actually made *worse* :P 20100312 20:23:16-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-158-47-51.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:27:06< noy> well, its likely that a state will take it in the future 20100312 20:27:16< noy> ... most likely Nevada 20100312 20:27:30< noy> someone will realize the economic benefits of storing the stuff 20100312 20:32:23-!- mich- [~mich-@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:36:03-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100312 20:36:51-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:38:12-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 20:39:41-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:43:13< Aethaeryn> noy: Economic benefits? 20100312 20:45:56-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20100312 20:46:07< zookeeper> Aethaeryn, the waste problem won't last millions of years 20100312 20:48:27< zookeeper> it's gonna be mostly harmless in like less than a 100000 years 20100312 20:49:21< Aethaeryn> "Only" longer than all of recorded human history... 20100312 20:49:42< Aethaeryn> Though yes, I was wrong. 20100312 20:51:10< Gambit> mostly harmless :P 20100312 20:52:18< Aethaeryn> :P 20100312 20:52:37< Gambit> I want an arbitrary percentage. 20100312 20:53:29< Aethaeryn> I want a few billion dollars, less than one percent of the stimulus budget. I could stimulate the economy better than whatever they're doing right now. 20100312 20:53:41-!- kane77 [~kane@194.1.130.108] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:53:44< Gambit> Also it's quite a bit more than one hundred thousand years. 20100312 20:53:59< Gambit> The half life of depleted uranium is 4 and a half billion years. 20100312 20:54:57< Gambit> So it will be 1% percent less harmful than it is today. Ha 20100312 20:55:17< Gambit> actually no I made a typo :( 20100312 20:55:38< Aethaeryn> 4 and a half billion years isn't so bad. 20100312 20:55:42< Aethaeryn> If we're lucky Earth will still exist. 20100312 20:55:56< Gambit> And the sun won't have burnt out :P 20100312 20:56:57< Gambit> What would you do with the billion dollars? 20100312 20:57:06< Gambit> *few biliion 20100312 20:57:23< zookeeper> ...who was talking about depleted uranium? 20100312 20:57:41< Gambit> I would just work on getting DSL capable lines to everywhere in the country. 20100312 20:57:48< Gambit> That'd create a few jobs 20100312 20:57:52-!- Noyga [~noyga@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 20:58:19< Gambit> zookeeper: Well we were talking about nuking nuclear waste. 20100312 20:58:27-!- Noyga [~noyga@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has quit [Client Quit] 20100312 20:58:36< Gambit> and before that we were discussing launching it into the sun 20100312 20:58:44< Gambit> or just some really far away place 20100312 20:58:51< zookeeper> nuclear waste isn't depleted uranium 20100312 20:58:51< Gambit> like Albuquerque 20100312 21:01:54< Gambit> hmm yeah that was my bad when I mentioned recycling nuclear waste into mortar shells 20100312 21:02:00< Gambit> :s 20100312 21:03:10< Gambit> Got the joking suggestion crossed with what they actually do 20100312 21:03:19< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Maybe I'd order 2,000,000 Nexus Ones. Think they'd give me a bulk discount? 20100312 21:03:30< noy> Gambit: DU is not radioactive though 20100312 21:04:18< noy> The most radioactive stuff has shorter halflives 20100312 21:04:40< Gambit> Yeah I guess that is kind of what radiation is... 20100312 21:05:36< Aethaeryn> Gambit: But maybe I'd start a computer company that manufactures things in America... Not just America, Detroit. 20100312 21:05:45< Aethaeryn> I'd say that's a good thing that the government should encourage. 20100312 21:05:56< noy> Cesium 137 is a bad one 20100312 21:05:56< Aethaeryn> And I would probably need a few billion to compete with entrenched competition at first :P 20100312 21:06:15< noy> half life of 30 years 20100312 21:06:18< Gambit> Well that would definitly cross of one of your barriers to entry. 20100312 21:06:49< noy> depleted Uranium's problem is that its poisonous 20100312 21:06:55< noy> not radioactive 20100312 21:07:17< Aethaeryn> noy: How so? 20100312 21:07:25< noy> uh, its poisonous 20100312 21:07:48< noy> that its harmful to life because of its chemical properties 20100312 21:07:50< Aethaeryn> "Poison" can do a lot of different and uniquely creative things. 20100312 21:08:13< noy> I'm not a biological chemist so I don't know its exact damage 20100312 21:09:04< Gambit> um it is radioactive 20100312 21:09:10< Gambit> just very very weak 20100312 21:09:27< noy> yeah, to the point that its effects are negligble 20100312 21:09:42< noy> negligible 20100312 21:09:43< Gambit> unless you breath in the gas when one of the shells explodes 20100312 21:09:56< noy> its still not radioactive 20100312 21:09:58< Aethaeryn> *Oh* 20100312 21:10:15< Aethaeryn> I think depleted uranium is what the russians used to kill that one critic that was in the news a few years ago 20100312 21:10:22< noy> no 20100312 21:10:25< Becquerel> that was polonium 20100312 21:10:28< Aethaeryn> oh 20100312 21:10:29< noy> yes 20100312 21:10:43< Aethaeryn> By the way, Russia is a wonderful country that has no flaws at all. 20100312 21:11:05-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100312 21:11:30< Becquerel> Russia is pretty cool. 20100312 21:12:08-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 21:12:10< noy> Becquerel: but was its radioactive or its poisonous effects that killed him? 20100312 21:12:51< Becquerel> if anyone ever said, I wasn't listening :P 20100312 21:12:53< noy> nm it seems it was the radiation 20100312 21:13:10< Gambit> noy: The radiation isn't harmful on the outside. 20100312 21:13:17< noy> it was ingested 20100312 21:13:20< noy> on sushi 20100312 21:13:22< Gambit> noy: Because alpha radiatio can't travel that far. 20100312 21:13:27< Gambit> But if you get it in you. 20100312 21:13:41< Becquerel> hm 20100312 21:14:22< Becquerel> odd that it wasn't the poison, considering that it is apparently a quarter of a million times more poisonous than cyanide 20100312 21:14:33< Becquerel> but I guess radiation is fast-acting 20100312 21:14:46< Becquerel> what with not having to be actually ingested :P 20100312 21:17:47< Aethaeryn> So is the moral of the story that the worst place to store depleted uranium is somewhere edible? 20100312 21:18:27< Becquerel> the moral of the story is, never accept sushi from a russian :P 20100312 21:18:42-!- [NaL] [~Steve@CPE00134642ef27-CM001cea399e32.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 21:19:39< noy> Aethaeryn: depleted uranium as a poison is probably just as toxic as lets say lead. 20100312 21:20:07< Aethaeryn> So it doesn't work well as wall paint either? :( 20100312 21:20:16< Aethaeryn> You're narrowing the options greatly! 20100312 21:21:33< Gambit> Becquerel: anvilicious 20100312 21:21:45< noy> its pretty amazing as armor or at the tip of a kinetic shell 20100312 21:22:24< Aethaeryn> Is there just too much of it for armor/shells? 20100312 21:22:34< noy> I think there is never enough 20100312 21:22:38< noy> you can use it for so much 20100312 21:22:56< noy> DU isn't what the problem is 20100312 21:25:04< noy> its #1 the radioactive byproducts of the nuclear reaction; Cesium 137 is probably the worst 20100312 21:25:31< noy> #2 its the irradiated equipment that needs to wait until it becomes less "hot" 20100312 21:26:01< Gambit> Thier music isn't that bad. 20100312 21:27:30< Gambit> Not a funny joke? :( 20100312 21:28:45< Gambit> note: there is a band named after the aforementioned worst radioactive byproduct 20100312 21:29:37< noy> yeah... well 20100312 21:30:02< Gambit> sorry. continue you with your list. 20100312 21:30:17 * Gambit boots playstation 20100312 21:32:16< noy> well nobody really is interested in the nuclear waste issue there isn't much to say 20100312 21:33:58< Aethaeryn> Only in this era would bands be named after radioactive byproducts. 20100312 21:34:46< Aethaeryn> noy: so why Nevada? And what economic benefits do they get from it? 20100312 21:35:20< noy> well someone has to administer the project 20100312 21:35:28< noy> and protect the site 20100312 21:35:30< noy> monitor it 20100312 21:35:32< noy> ect 20100312 21:35:37< noy> That brings in money 20100312 21:43:14< VurtualRuler98> What did I miss? 20100312 21:47:46< Aethaeryn> The conversation went from shape of Earth to atoms to splitting atoms to nuclear waste and depleted uranium 20100312 21:47:51< Aethaeryn> That's what you missed. 20100312 21:48:08< Aethaeryn> This channel changes more than an Off-Topic thread. 20100312 21:49:06< Becquerel> Aethaeryn: There's a good thrash band called Municipal Waste, as well. :) 20100312 21:49:16< VurtualRuler98> IRC is like that and all. 20100312 21:49:34< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Now it looks like it's transforming into band talk because noy said "cesium 137" 20100312 21:49:40< Becquerel> :P 20100312 21:49:48< Aethaeryn> Only our generation(s) could do this. 20100312 21:50:09< Aethaeryn> Forget the thousands of years of n00bs before us. 20100312 21:50:32< VurtualRuler98> Look at all the previous lame generations. 20100312 21:50:50< VurtualRuler98> The 20s actually destroyed our economy. 20100312 21:51:05-!- Ken_Oh [~briang@static-71-178-174-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 21:51:47< Aethaeryn> and the 10s and 40s destroyed European supremacy. 20100312 21:52:20< VurtualRuler98> We actually temporarily used conventional war against people during the cold war era. 20100312 21:52:35< VurtualRuler98> But thankfully we and our automated anti-tank droids are past that. 20100312 21:53:30< Gambit> So what do you guys think the haarp conspiracy theories? 20100312 21:53:48< Gambit> That the government is using special radio waves to repel hurricanes. 20100312 21:53:48< VurtualRuler98> They are the true sheeple. 20100312 21:54:20< Gambit> America hasn't had a truely devastating hurricane since the program went active. 20100312 21:54:36< Aethaeryn> What's interesting is that we are living in an era of science fiction. 20100312 21:54:44< Gambit> But lack of something isn't proof of something else. 20100312 21:54:46< VurtualRuler98> The real conspiracy is that the government is conspiring to calmly clean up problems without people noticing to maintain an angry and revolt-ready society to make sure we can handle invasion. 20100312 21:55:13< Aethaeryn> I mean, you could be killed with a missile miles away from a camera-feed-broadcasting flying drone controlled thousands of miles away. 20100312 21:55:15< VurtualRuler98> Pollution problems seem less apparent now. 20100312 21:55:20< Gambit> Basically they created a high pressure system off the coast of floridia. 20100312 21:55:25< Aethaeryn> This would seem sci fi to the 40s, let alone the earliest 1900s before flight 20100312 21:55:39< Gambit> By pushing the jet stream further upwards 20100312 21:55:39< VurtualRuler98> No you know what seems like sci-fi today? 20100312 21:56:06< Aethaeryn> the fact that we're having this conversation? 20100312 21:56:30< Gambit> Not so much the conversation, as how we're having it. 20100312 21:56:31< VurtualRuler98> All the major governments are at peace and working together for the good of humanity, while everyone debates, shares, discusses, and enjoys life through a massive communication system with devices capible of simulating reality being readily available. 20100312 21:56:42< Aethaeryn> hah 20100312 21:56:52< Aethaeryn> I doubt it'll last forever. 20100312 21:57:05< Aethaeryn> If the current major governments remain at peace, a government will become major that's not peaceful. 20100312 21:57:08< Aethaeryn> Goes in cycles. 20100312 21:57:12< VurtualRuler98> "Aww, I'll have to run this on low. Now I can't see for two hundred miles and still make out small vehicles!" 20100312 21:57:54< VurtualRuler98> "I can only tell apart the parts of their ear from here! I want to see individual strands of hair!" 20100312 21:58:05 * Gambit resists urge to quote beatles song. 20100312 21:58:12< VurtualRuler98> "These pores don't have simulated cells!" 20100312 21:58:15< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Just go to the CSI and have them enhance the picture. :P 20100312 21:58:27< Gambit> *the who 20100312 21:58:52< Gambit> lol no have CSI cut someone out of the photo so that they can see what the guy behind the cut out person was wearing 20100312 21:59:02-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100312 21:59:07-!- mich- [~mich-@host235-243-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #wesnoth [] 20100312 21:59:13< Aethaeryn> I wish I had CSI tech so I could enhance Google Maps/Earth when the zoom is too close. 20100312 21:59:23< VurtualRuler98> Also note that most of our "revolutionary" games are done by small teams(Valve), or are just a tiny amount of challenge compared to what can be done. 20100312 21:59:25< Aethaeryn> Deblur and magnify 1000x from the original. 20100312 21:59:43< VurtualRuler98> Uncrop streetview, go into that house. 20100312 21:59:43< Aethaeryn> Wesnoth is more revolutionary than you think. 20100312 21:59:50< VurtualRuler98> Portal was done by a few people. 20100312 22:00:02-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 22:00:11-!- Tomsik [~Tomsik@bde14.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Thus spoke Tomsik] 20100312 22:00:37< Gambit> too bad it's all for naught because the best video game ever was already made. 20100312 22:00:45< Gambit> Fantasy World Dizzy 20100312 22:00:50< VurtualRuler98> Counter-Strike itself had a tiny group of people working on it. 20100312 22:00:53< VurtualRuler98> And look where it is now! 20100312 22:01:49< VurtualRuler98> Microsoft was started by two guys. 20100312 22:01:50< noy> I was reading how the US military is deploying a new type of UAV that fires hellfire missiles... my first thought: I guess a lot of people are getting five consecutive kills 20100312 22:02:13< VurtualRuler98> Aren't those single rockets? 20100312 22:02:22< VurtualRuler98> Homing air-to-ground? 20100312 22:02:30< Gambit> lol 20100312 22:02:48< VurtualRuler98> AGM-114 right? 20100312 22:02:55< Aethaeryn> < VurtualRuler98> Microsoft was started by two guys. <- It's not too labor-intensive to relicense someone else's mediocre OS to IBM and profit from it. 20100312 22:03:13< VurtualRuler98> You do that then. 20100312 22:03:21< noy> they are laser guided 20100312 22:03:26< VurtualRuler98> I even have the delorean all fueled up. 20100312 22:03:37< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: If we still lived in a 16-bit era, maybe. Software is so much more complicated now. 20100312 22:03:41-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 22:04:26< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Perhaps I should give a full copy of Fedora today to Linus Torvalds one week after he releases Linux 1.0. A loop will then happen until we'll reach singularity. 20100312 22:04:46< VurtualRuler98> But it'll be like Fedora. 20100312 22:04:49< Aethaeryn> Every time I go back to the 1990s with today's Linux, today's Linux will be more advanced because of the work already done... 20100312 22:05:00< VurtualRuler98> Give it to the DNF devs 20100312 22:05:07< VurtualRuler98> Er, DNF 20100312 22:05:09< VurtualRuler98> See if it ever comes out. 20100312 22:05:15< Aethaeryn> YES 20100312 22:05:36< Aethaeryn> Now, I just need to convince the government to give me several billion dollars to work on time travel. 20100312 22:05:47< VurtualRuler98> I already have the delorean and everything! 20100312 22:05:48< Aethaeryn> They're spending trillions and trillions, so a few billion is nothing, especially if the feedback loop happens 20100312 22:05:48< VurtualRuler98> Brb 20100312 22:05:58< elias> better not show it to the DNF devs... what if they start contributing to Linux - and it won't improve at all any longer 20100312 22:06:07< Gambit> noy: Turuk has juggernaut. 20100312 22:06:21< elias> the circle will be broken and we're stuck for eternity with an unfinished linux 20100312 22:06:23< Gambit> That's how we know he'll be okay. 20100312 22:06:32 * Gambit is kind of sad now. 20100312 22:07:13< noy> has juggernaut? 20100312 22:07:17< VurtualRuler98> Also, if DNF does finish 20100312 22:07:24< VurtualRuler98> We'll end up getting infinite sequels 20100312 22:07:27< VurtualRuler98> Instantly 20100312 22:07:57< VurtualRuler98> "Hey are you coming over to play the new Duke Nukem yet?" "Sorry, I'm still a thousand releases behind." 20100312 22:08:06< Gambit> noy: A modern warfare perk. 20100312 22:08:10< VurtualRuler98> *pause for a moment* 20100312 22:08:13< VurtualRuler98> "Me too." 20100312 22:08:18< Gambit> Wait... your "five consecutive kills" thing was a video game joke? 20100312 22:08:21< noy> does turuk play? 20100312 22:08:31< Gambit> No. He's in the army. 20100312 22:08:31< noy> it was a modernwarfare II joke 20100312 22:08:31< VurtualRuler98> Shocking thing. 20100312 22:08:37< VurtualRuler98> MW2 MP out-does CSS. 20100312 22:08:43< VurtualRuler98> But only barely. 20100312 22:08:55< noy> eh... I think Bad company II might be better 20100312 22:09:00< VurtualRuler98> A few thousand at most. And it's a new overpopularized release. 20100312 22:10:02< Gambit> SWBF2 multiplayer owns all 20100312 22:10:13< VurtualRuler98> Battlefront 2? 20100312 22:10:15< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Doesn't DNF stand for Did Not Finish? ;) 20100312 22:10:26< VurtualRuler98> Duke Nukem Forever. 20100312 22:10:27< VurtualRuler98> So mostly yeah 20100312 22:10:54< noy> No, the original Duke Nukem was the best 20100312 22:11:01< Aethaeryn> should've checked (1) the irony of their acronym and (2) the irony of their modifying adjective, before naming their project. Doomed from the start... Oh wait. 20100312 22:11:04< VurtualRuler98> Also while MW2 is at 88k, and CSS is at 84K, BC2 is only 22K. 20100312 22:11:11< noy> I still think flying + flamewall was the cheapest thing of all time 20100312 22:11:12< Gambit> What do you mean? Duke nuken forever was a great game! http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/748-Duke-Nukem-Forever 20100312 22:11:13< VurtualRuler98> Football Manager 2010 is at... 18k? 20100312 22:11:14< VurtualRuler98> What? 20100312 22:12:04< noy> rise of the triad 20100312 22:12:57< noy> I remember playing it on LAN at my highschool 20100312 22:14:48-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100312 22:14:53-!- Mythological_ is now known as Mythological 20100312 22:15:23< Gambit> But seriously nothing beats Battlefront 2 20100312 22:16:15< Gambit> If only they'd stop spending all their time and money on monkey island and force unleashed >_> 20100312 22:16:29< Aethaeryn> Battlefront 2 was fun. 20100312 22:16:35< Aethaeryn> Too bad there's no Battlefront 3 20100312 22:16:46< Gambit> Did you see the leaked footage from the alpha? 20100312 22:16:56< Gambit> Seamless ground to space :'( 20100312 22:16:57< Aethaeryn> no, I don't follow gaming blogs anymore. 20100312 22:17:08< Gambit> The game was almost ready when Free Radical went under :( 20100312 22:17:35< Gambit> Now we're supposedly getting something called Battlefront Online developed by Lucas Arts and Slant Six 20100312 22:17:58< Aethaeryn> I wonder if video games have already peaked. I think PC games have peaked, certainly outside of the strategy and MMO genres. 20100312 22:18:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100312 22:18:26< Aethaeryn> (Note that peak doesn't mean that it can't peak again and that it's doomed forever to decline, merely that it's on a decline) 20100312 22:18:45< Aethaeryn> (Some mountains have more than one peak, so do charts of industries) 20100312 22:19:09< Gambit> Battlefront 3 would be about the only game I'd actually buy an xbox for. 20100312 22:19:15< Gambit> If it were somehow an xbox exclusive. 20100312 22:19:30< Gambit> In fact it's the only game that would make be buy a console I didn't already have period. 20100312 22:19:34< VurtualRuler98> On the topic of force unleashed 20100312 22:19:48< VurtualRuler98> It was dissapointing at first, not enough flingy people 20100312 22:19:55< Gambit> Except those handheld ones of course 20100312 22:19:56< VurtualRuler98> Then I thought JC2 would be like that, but it's not. 20100312 22:20:06< Aethaeryn> wasn't too bad of a game... one of my friends found ways to make Force Unleash fun 20100312 22:20:13< Aethaeryn> found the most sadistic ways to kill stormtroopers 20100312 22:20:16< Gambit> The most anyone thought of Force Unleashed was "meh" 20100312 22:20:31< Aethaeryn> holding them up in front of tie fighters and waiting for the tie fighters to come I think was the best. 20100312 22:20:43< Aethaeryn> Just struggling above a bottomless pit in the line of a tie fighter 20100312 22:20:54< Gambit> Compare that to the fanfare the Battlefront series has earned "best selling star wars game ever" and you wonder if Lucas Arts has gone bonkers developing FU2 instead of BF3 20100312 22:21:15< Aethaeryn> The strategic map was pretty fun 20100312 22:21:20< VurtualRuler98> How many times do you die in Force Unleashed anyways? 20100312 22:21:24< VurtualRuler98> ...3? 4? 20100312 22:21:45< Gambit> That's another thing that ticks me off 20100312 22:21:49< Gambit> The main character died! 20100312 22:22:07< Aethaeryn> In battlefront, you could get 4 people together, 2 per team, and have a pretty epic gaming session for the galaxy 20100312 22:22:07< Gambit> he doesn't need a sequal :@ 20100312 22:22:27< Aethaeryn> he doesn't need a sequel, either 20100312 22:22:30< VurtualRuler98> He's apparently dead. 20100312 22:22:35< VurtualRuler98> Or not dead, considering how man ytimes he dies. 20100312 22:22:39< Gambit> lol Aethaeryn 20100312 22:22:44-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100312 22:22:48< VurtualRuler98> He probably has medkits for blood 20100312 22:22:53< Gambit> My favorite part of Battlefront was all the glitches 20100312 22:23:00< Aethaeryn> he also doesn't need a SQL 20100312 22:23:05< VurtualRuler98> You cut him, and glowing green stuff pours out like a hl2 medkit. 20100312 22:23:26< Gambit> Not the "in the wall gltiches" that the noobs used 20100312 22:23:33< Gambit> but things like being able to throw detpacks 20100312 22:23:52< VurtualRuler98> detpack throwing was a feature. 20100312 22:23:58< Gambit> No it wasn't XD 20100312 22:24:05< VurtualRuler98> Not like "huge flinging", but I think it was intentional to make them fly with you 20100312 22:24:09< Aethaeryn> Gambit: battlefront 2 is one of the few last-gen games that hold up to this gen. 20100312 22:24:13< VurtualRuler98> so you could throw while running and have it land logically. 20100312 22:24:14< Aethaeryn> as in, it's not obviously a "classic" 20100312 22:24:30< Aethaeryn> Besides the lack of achievements, someone might not be able to tell that it's not this gen, if it's on a CRT TV 20100312 22:24:46< Gambit> Though there is also the super detpack throwing glitcch 20100312 22:24:51< Gambit> where it flies straight like a bullet 20100312 22:24:55< Gambit> and has no cap on distance 20100312 22:25:26< VurtualRuler98> Examine grond and you'll notice how old it is. 20100312 22:25:26< VurtualRuler98> ground* 20100312 22:25:30< Gambit> It took me two years of practice to be able to get that just 30% of the time :# 20100312 22:25:31< VurtualRuler98> But then... the bloom and sun rays 20100312 22:25:50< Gambit> We had this guy in our clan who would occasionally be engy in clan matches 20100312 22:25:53< VurtualRuler98> You know what was fun in battlefront 2? 20100312 22:25:56< VurtualRuler98> Playing against bots 20100312 22:25:57< Gambit> and he'd set secondary fire to r1 20100312 22:26:00< VurtualRuler98> And being the last guy alive 20100312 22:26:04< VurtualRuler98> Fighting off huge teams. 20100312 22:26:08< Gambit> He'd get maybe 3 shotgun kills per match 20100312 22:26:15< Gambit> but mostly it'd be detpacks 20100312 22:26:32< Gambit> He'd go like 40-6 just using detpacks in public rooms 20100312 22:27:27< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: I was so happy they fixed that in BF2. 20100312 22:27:38< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: With the AI not spawning once you get so low on reinforcements. 20100312 22:28:00< Gambit> iirc in Battlefront 1 the bots could waste your last few reinforcements. 20100312 22:28:04-!- SekoIdiootti [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 20100312 22:28:32< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Can you please make a flow chart of this convo whenever it finally dies? 20100312 22:28:39< Gambit> Haha 20100312 22:28:42< VurtualRuler98> Still happens in a few missions. 20100312 22:28:56< Gambit> I was a rocket noob for most of battlefront 2 20100312 22:29:10< Gambit> My aim was getting pretty good there towards the end. I could body shot jet troopers 20100312 22:29:12< Aethaeryn> the best part is that we've basically been constant the whole times, Gambit :P 20100312 22:29:23< VurtualRuler98> And the same concept(other people out of your control ruining your chances at victory by dying) plagues some FPSes 20100312 22:29:40< VurtualRuler98> At least for me, no matter how good I play in some games, someone just ends up killing hundreds of people who want to go to xyz. 20100312 22:29:58< Gambit> Yep. You can't pull your team. 20100312 22:30:04< VurtualRuler98> BFG in a watery room? Everyone walks right in, the whole game would be empty outside of that. 20100312 22:30:22< Gambit> occasionally someone would camp the server admin and we'd do 2-3 MERCs versus everyone else 20100312 22:30:30< VurtualRuler98> maybe someone wants to be the guy that killed the guy killing everyone, and this results in everyone running into a guy, no matter the game. 20100312 22:30:39< Gambit> But my jerk clan mates always put me on with "Everyone else" >_> 20100312 22:30:46< Gambit> lol 20100312 22:31:23< Gambit> Then they didn't have to worry about pulling a team of newbies 20100312 22:31:51< Gambit> Winning 3v19 is no easy thing to do 20100312 22:31:57< VurtualRuler98> On the other hand, this swarm of lemmings effect in FPSes makes it really easy to stop people. 20100312 22:32:02< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: Favorite map? 20100312 22:32:06< VurtualRuler98> Battlefront 2? 20100312 22:32:09< Gambit> Yes 20100312 22:32:10< VurtualRuler98> Uhm...uh...hmmm 20100312 22:32:28< VurtualRuler98> ...I dunno 20100312 22:32:31< Gambit> xD 20100312 22:32:50< VurtualRuler98> I've only played it because I remember enjoying the first battlefront, and even then the map I remember most is gone. 20100312 22:33:26< Gambit> BF1 favorite map? 20100312 22:33:54< Gambit> SWBF2 was the last console game that you ccould mod 20100312 22:34:18< VurtualRuler98> I remember lots of Kashyyk maps that were awesome to play on. 20100312 22:34:57< Gambit> The meshes of the terrain for maps were stored on the CD 20100312 22:34:59< VurtualRuler98> But actually then I only played it on my brother's computer, and I rarely actually looked at map names or studied them intensely then. 20100312 22:35:06< Gambit> but objects and things were pulled from the dedicated server 20100312 22:35:24< Gambit> As well as the individual unit types's stats 20100312 22:35:53< Gambit> The PC of course had loads of mods 20100312 22:36:07< Gambit> The consoles got some things like no tanks mods 20100312 22:36:18< Gambit> and droids die in space mods 20100312 22:36:36< Gambit> which -insert more bragging about my clan- were all invented by the leader of MERC 20100312 22:36:52< VurtualRuler98> Were there any half-spacebattle maps made? 20100312 22:37:06< Gambit> You mean spacce battles on land? 20100312 22:37:27< Gambit> Sadly no. You couldn't put any objects on the map that didn't already exist. At least he never found a way. 20100312 22:37:31< VurtualRuler98> Well maybe like a space station, and the enemy uses a ship. 20100312 22:37:39< VurtualRuler98> For PC. 20100312 22:37:59< Gambit> Oh yeah PC has all kinds of cool things 20100312 22:38:04< Gambit> Because you can add custom meshes 20100312 22:38:17< Gambit> I'm sure there's a space station map somewhere on filefront 20100312 22:38:18< VurtualRuler98> So one side is a large station or maybe like that one asteroid map. 20100312 22:38:39< VurtualRuler98> And they have mounted cannons that blow up, while the other side is based off a space battle spaceship that needs to be destroyed. 20100312 22:39:05< Gambit> -MERC-J actually created us a new game mode for hoth CTF 20100312 22:39:12< Gambit> it was a hybrid between conquest and CTF 20100312 22:39:32< Gambit> No reinforcements, but the Command posts got you better positions near the flag. 20100312 22:40:00< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: if it exists for PC it will be here: http://starwarsbattlefront.filefront.com/ 20100312 22:40:01< VurtualRuler98> Then the battles would start off with the destroyer deploying a huge amount of fighters and ships, and the other side having a mix of fighters and people manning heavy cannons 20100312 22:40:05< VurtualRuler98> I never found one. 20100312 22:40:22< VurtualRuler98> Nor has anyone else I know who has Battlefront 2. 20100312 22:40:36< VurtualRuler98> And I can't get mod tools working. 20100312 22:40:49< Gambit> Well BF3 was supposed to have what you want :( 20100312 22:41:00< Gambit> Every map would have a land component 20100312 22:41:07< Gambit> and then you could seamlessly go int ospace 20100312 22:41:17< Gambit> and the capital ships had fully explorable innards 20100312 22:41:17< VurtualRuler98> If it comes out I'll try this specific design. 20100312 22:41:23< VurtualRuler98> You've played cp_steel in TF2 right? 20100312 22:41:34 * Gambit has never played TF2 :$ 20100312 22:41:40< VurtualRuler98> Well, it's got 5 capture points 20100312 22:41:55-!- John_R [~john@67-61-192-90.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20100312 22:41:58< VurtualRuler98> You only need the 5th, but the other 4 do things like opening more routes or adding walkways so any class can reach the platform. 20100312 22:42:08< Gambit> neat 20100312 22:42:23< Gambit> Kind of like the control switches in Tribes 2 then 20100312 22:42:34< Gambit> they would control which team owned the sentry turrets, or could walk through different force fields 20100312 22:42:39< VurtualRuler98> And it was attack/defend, so any point lost was permenantly lost. 20100312 22:42:54< VurtualRuler98> I could do something like that in battlefront, where you can capture/destroy the space station weapons, or disable systems by capturing them, in order to reach a central point in the station. 20100312 22:43:39< Gambit> hehe we lost Aethaeryn 20100312 22:44:27< Gambit> His last statement is kind of ironic 20100312 22:45:17< Aethaeryn> Yeah. 20100312 22:45:23< Aethaeryn> Annoying cat... 20100312 22:45:45< Aethaeryn> Crying for treats because she's spoiled, even though we haven't been giving her treats for months since they're bad for her. 20100312 22:46:00< VurtualRuler98> Sounds like you need a dog. 20100312 22:46:05< VurtualRuler98> Most dog treats are healthy for the dog. 20100312 22:46:06< Aethaeryn> I hate dogs. 20100312 22:46:12< VurtualRuler98> ...what 20100312 22:46:21< Gambit> :s 20100312 22:46:21< Aethaeryn> Always have, always will. 20100312 22:46:33< VurtualRuler98> Don't make me dual wield my dogs! 20100312 22:46:45< Gambit> Akimbo barking 20100312 22:46:52< VurtualRuler98> They're trained to attack people if needed. 20100312 22:46:56< Aethaeryn> I am a very calm, relaxed, low-energy, intelligent, meditative, indoorsy person. 20100312 22:46:59< VurtualRuler98> Partially because only violence got what they wanted. 20100312 22:47:00< Aethaeryn> Dogs are the exact opposite. 20100312 22:47:09< VurtualRuler98> You should come outside, it's great. 20100312 22:47:35< Aethaeryn> Hyper, in-your-face, needing-to-be-walked-even-in-blizards, relatively stupid, and not tired the least bit. 20100312 22:47:35< VurtualRuler98> It's like being in an action movie sometimes. Jumping over handrails and going up something in a single leap. 20100312 22:47:40< Aethaeryn> And very wet and slobbery. 20100312 22:47:48< Aethaeryn> I'm also a neat person, and dogs are messy, and they like to eat stuff. 20100312 22:47:52< Aethaeryn> Cats only like to eat mice. 20100312 22:47:53< VurtualRuler98> My dogs live outside. They run when they want to run. 20100312 22:47:57< Aethaeryn> Right. 20100312 22:48:07< VurtualRuler98> Cats have eaten all sorts of stuff around my house. 20100312 22:48:09< Aethaeryn> I'm not a very athletic wanting-to-go-outside-or-even-run person. 20100312 22:48:15< Aethaeryn> Dogs are my opposite. 20100312 22:48:19< Gambit> Cats actually have an annoying tendancy to NOT eat things 20100312 22:48:29< Gambit> They just kill them and leave them on the door step >_> 20100312 22:48:40< VurtualRuler98> One died(not before facehugger attacking me), the other was taken by a family member and then died because they refused to immediately seek medical attention for a major problem. 20100312 22:48:50< VurtualRuler98> "Well we'll wait a week and see what happens." 20100312 22:48:56< VurtualRuler98> They saw that it died. 20100312 22:49:20< Aethaeryn> oh, dogs are very obedient, too. 20100312 22:49:27< Aethaeryn> I'm not very obedient. :P 20100312 22:49:31< VurtualRuler98> Then our other cat, left as mysteriously as it came. It came here from almost nowhere, we ended up taking care of it, and it left again. 20100312 22:50:36< VurtualRuler98> Considering we're pretty sure it came from the neighbor's house, who regularly has cats who have kittens, who then die in weeks, it was probably trying to not die. 20100312 22:50:37< Gambit> This ancient, deaf dog showed up at our house a couple of years ago 20100312 22:50:44< Gambit> Starved almost to death 20100312 22:50:46< Gambit> we fed it 20100312 22:50:49< Gambit> then it wandered off 20100312 22:50:52< Gambit> and we got this nasty snow 20100312 22:51:00< Gambit> after the snow had melted, it came back wit ha kitten :s 20100312 22:51:09< Gambit> We fed it back from starvation again 20100312 22:51:20< Gambit> it left right before a massive snow 20100312 22:51:22< Gambit> then came back 20100312 22:51:39< VurtualRuler98> Maybe its home gets snowed in 20100312 22:51:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 22:51:52< VurtualRuler98> Or it hunts but gets hungry during snow. 20100312 22:52:00-!- martin__ [~martin@f048035254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 22:52:03< Gambit> The dog died, but the kitten is still hanging around. 20100312 22:52:10< Gambit> a cat now 20100312 22:53:18< Gambit> We were so worried about it running off the first time, then we see it walking down the road toward us (I didn't think dogs's sense of direction was very good) with a kitten trailing along behind it. 20100312 22:53:19< VurtualRuler98> The cat is probably the next in a line of avatar-beings who take various animal forms 20100312 22:53:36< VurtualRuler98> Soon the cat will return with another animal altogether. 20100312 22:53:42< Gambit> xD 20100312 22:54:07< Gambit> My mom thought that it might have gone back for the kitten 20100312 22:54:17< Gambit> but that doesn't explain the second time 20100312 22:54:30< Gambit> Unless there was supposed to be more than one kitten :'( 20100312 22:54:49< VurtualRuler98> Matching it up to the chinese calendar 20100312 22:55:08< VurtualRuler98> Actually hard to do here. 20100312 22:55:27< Aethaeryn> brb 20100312 22:55:33< VurtualRuler98> So if the cat leaves and comes back shortly, it could potentially bring a snake 20100312 22:55:38< VurtualRuler98> or a dragon 20100312 22:55:50< VurtualRuler98> Hey, you could get a pet dragon! 20100312 22:55:59-!- Aethaery1 [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 22:56:51-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20100312 22:56:53-!- Aethaery1 is now known as Aethaeryn 20100312 22:57:01< Aethaeryn> Whoops, switched to wireless too soon. 20100312 22:57:34-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20100312 22:57:46< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: I want a monkey 20100312 22:58:01-!- zenhoobbit [~hevien@host44-69-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100312 22:58:02< VurtualRuler98> Dude, a dragon. 20100312 22:58:09< VurtualRuler98> Don't chinese ones fly? 20100312 22:59:04< VurtualRuler98> You could ride it places, or when the military invents energy shields/if the dragon can keep you both invincible or safe, charge into war with it and win any war with your unstoppable dragon. 20100312 22:59:27< Gambit> Every time I manage to trap a rabbit, one of the cats eats it before I get to it. 20100312 22:59:45< Gambit> Or rather, my traps keep getting sprung, and I keep finding dead rabbits at the door step 20100312 23:00:01< Gambit> From which I deduced that the cats are stealing them. 20100312 23:00:15< VurtualRuler98> Aperture Science Handheld Cat Device? 20100312 23:00:28< Gambit> ? 20100312 23:00:33< VurtualRuler98> Teleporting your rabbits away for themselves. 20100312 23:01:01< VurtualRuler98> They'll just be walking around, find trapped rabbits, and fire energy rays from their paw to teleport the rabbit out, and then they take it. 20100312 23:02:00< Gambit> It's not the kind of trap that needs a teleporter 20100312 23:02:26< Gambit> It's a deep, narrow hole covered over with leaves and some fruit on top 20100312 23:03:00< Gambit> Wait wait... did I just argue that the cat does not need a teleporter? 20100312 23:03:03< Gambit> ugh 20100312 23:03:23< Aethaeryn> Gambit: maybe you should patent that rabbit trap before someone steals it 20100312 23:03:30< Aethaeryn> since now it's out in the public 20100312 23:03:41< Gambit> Yes it is so highly effective 20100312 23:03:59< Aethaeryn> "Method of trapping rabbits, but not cats who seek rabbits." 20100312 23:04:19< Aethaeryn> "And no one else can use it for the next 20 years now, so hah" 20100312 23:04:41< Gambit> And it's such an original idea too 20100312 23:04:52< Aethaeryn> yep 20100312 23:05:03< Gambit> But yeah it's narrow so they can't use their legs as well 20100312 23:05:12< Gambit> And I don't know for sure that it ever actually worked 20100312 23:05:34< VurtualRuler98> Market it as a rabbit trap that does not work on cats. 20100312 23:05:59< Aethaeryn> Think of the money you can make by suing everyone who doesn't pay a royalty to you. 20100312 23:06:05< Gambit> Automated live meat cat feeder :P 20100312 23:06:33< Aethaeryn> "$0 cat food dispenser" 20100312 23:06:44< Gambit> Well you have to buy the fruit :P 20100312 23:06:56< Aethaeryn> you can just pluck it off of a fruit tree 20100312 23:07:22< Aethaeryn> whoever said there's no such thing as a free lunch never lived in/near nature 20100312 23:07:54< Aethaeryn> I wouldn't know of course, I am always inside, remember? ;) 20100312 23:09:37< Gambit> Just once I'd like to see something in it. Instead of just connecting dots between the grass being pushed down tight like something was in it, and a dead critter somewhere 20100312 23:09:57< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Who needs the outdoors. We have simulators for that! 20100312 23:10:10< VurtualRuler98> I'm desperately trying to make wesnoth maps that don't look jagged and hexagonal 20100312 23:10:36< Gambit> The second goal might be a bit hard. 20100312 23:10:47< VurtualRuler98> Unless I could blend tiles. 20100312 23:11:04< VurtualRuler98> So roads next to water could look like there's a thin lip of grass. 20100312 23:11:05< Gambit> Yeah but the overlays when units are selected 20100312 23:11:18< VurtualRuler98> Or a road could thinly curve. 20100312 23:11:54-!- Gambit is now known as Gambit|AFK|FF13 20100312 23:12:24< VurtualRuler98> Hills could look less hilly at the very edge, or random amounts of light rough terrain could be asthetically mixed in. Or, if we had cliffs as a terrain, have them distort the terrain into a smooth slope somehow. 20100312 23:12:30-!- TaylorSwift [~Taylor@222-155-70-120.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 23:18:11< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You may have just killed the 5-hour conversation by talking about Wesnoth! 20100312 23:18:40< VurtualRuler98> Lots of people must have some allergy to ontopicness. 20100312 23:19:17< VurtualRuler98> But it was well-spent since every ten seconds I go "I could make a winding road here!" or "This seaside would be more balanced and nice if there was a cliff here" 20100312 23:19:44< VurtualRuler98> Or going "Wait, what's coastal reef?", but that's not as relevant 20100312 23:21:40< Euthanatos> I seem to have a problem with the event side turn key or the comment (#) indicator 20100312 23:21:58< Euthanatos> one of them is failing majorly (or at least my usage of them is) 20100312 23:23:04< Euthanatos> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/5HjsRpcy 20100312 23:23:52< Euthanatos> i've been using the # to comment out a bunch of stuff so I could determine if my if/then stuff is working 20100312 23:24:18< Euthanatos> but it just goes and plays a bunch of gold.ogg anyway at the beginning of the enemy turn and I can't figure out why 20100312 23:25:36< VurtualRuler98> Did you try outright removing the commented parts? 20100312 23:26:37< Euthanatos> why would that make a difference? 20100312 23:26:44< Euthanatos> they're commented ~.^ 20100312 23:26:52< VurtualRuler98> Well it's worth a try. 20100312 23:26:56< Euthanatos> that's the whole purpose of having a comment 20100312 23:27:02< Euthanatos> so you don't have to do shit like that 20100312 23:27:10< VurtualRuler98> And that's all I know about fixing commented things that aren't being commented. 20100312 23:27:21< VurtualRuler98> Er, you know what I mean. 20100312 23:27:36< Euthanatos> yeas 20100312 23:28:36< Euthanatos> i thought maybe i could get some help with my logic as well 20100312 23:28:48< Euthanatos> i can't tell if i'm using if/then tags correctly 20100312 23:28:54< Euthanatos> whole reason i put the gold.ogg in there 20100312 23:29:58< zookeeper> ... 20100312 23:30:27< zookeeper> you're telling the game to play the sound on every side turn if enemy_mine_destroyed_side_5 boolean_equals false 20100312 23:31:00< zookeeper> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML 20100312 23:31:02< zookeeper> there's no side 20100312 23:31:08< zookeeper> s/side/side= 20100312 23:31:58< Euthanatos> yeah 20100312 23:32:01< Euthanatos> i have a side= 20100312 23:32:05< Euthanatos> side=5 20100312 23:32:52< zookeeper> i was referring to the wiki page 20100312 23:33:21< Euthanatos> oh 20100312 23:33:22< zookeeper> put your side number check into the [if] 20100312 23:33:30< zookeeper> [variable] name=side_number equals=5 20100312 23:33:35< Euthanatos> okay i see 20100312 23:35:54< VurtualRuler98> I almost thought goblin spearmen were use-worthy because they can level up from finishing an enemy off. But then I found out they only level into basically loyalist spearmen, or a leadership unit that sounds like Michael Jackson, and don't after that. 20100312 23:36:45< Euthanatos> gobos are a useful thing to put one or two into the mix 20100312 23:37:04< Euthanatos> low upkeep and nice dps for the price 20100312 23:38:26< VurtualRuler98> I've never been able to find a way to use them well except when I only have 9 gold. 20100312 23:43:13-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [] 20100312 23:47:31-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-124-191-176-143.oxqn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20100312 23:48:39< sevis> How can you fight drakes without goblins? 20100312 23:52:17< VurtualRuler98> Having more units, that's how. 20100312 23:55:12< sevis> I can hardly imagine one having more units than when using goblins, but okay. --- Log closed Sat Mar 13 00:00:58 2010