--- Log opened Sun Apr 04 00:00:21 2010
20100404 00:00:23< loonycyborg> Does it display a traceback or something?
20100404 00:01:15-!- AnMaster [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 00:01:57< shadowmaster> http://pastebin.com/32RSXwbA
20100404 00:02:27-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-88-217-103-17.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 00:03:04< shadowmaster> ah well, it works if I use sudo...I forgot that root isn't allowed to connect to X sessions directly here.
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20100404 00:03:25< shadowmaster> but why can't the damned thing say "I can't connect do display :0.0, HELP MEEEEEE!" instead?
20100404 00:03:56< Crab_> shadowmaster: because the people who wrote it screwed up error handling, i presume.
20100404 00:05:07< shadowmaster> and it suggests to install to /root.
20100404 00:05:24< shadowmaster> as if I was going to be able to run something from a 0700 dir
20100404 00:06:39< shadowmaster> and I'm actually just trying to reinstall it since it stopped working after I upgraded to squeeze in November...no idea why since it was installed to /usr/local and nothing's going to touch random files there, but I thought I may as well assume that the "Windows way" may apply to this software.
20100404 00:07:33< Crab_> shadowmaster: maybe it depended on some library that was swept away during the upgrade ?
20100404 00:08:05< shadowmaster> I think this doesn't have any external dependency
20100404 00:08:13< Crab_> strange, then...
20100404 00:09:29< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, n8
20100404 00:09:35< Crab_> night, Ivanovic
20100404 00:16:55< pokhbocee> Crab_: how long r u going to be online?
20100404 00:17:10< Crab_> pokhbocee: don't know, 1h to 2h
20100404 00:17:17< pokhbocee> ok. ty
20100404 00:21:51< pokhbocee> Crab_: you were right about filtering the usage u have provided is working. ill finish the rest today.
20100404 00:22:06< pokhbocee> Crab_: the imp. issue i wanna talk about u is the implementation of ai
20100404 00:22:08< Crab_> pokhbocee: good. submit an updated file to the patch page
20100404 00:22:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok
20100404 00:22:34< pokhbocee> im going from top to down
20100404 00:22:59< pokhbocee> to decrease the possible number of moves. i suggest to assign each unit a task
20100404 00:23:16< pokhbocee> such as scout, attacker, defender, patroller etc.
20100404 00:23:19< shadowmaster> well, killall-9 java
20100404 00:23:22< shadowmaster> er
20100404 00:23:31< pokhbocee> im not sure about the leader its kinda confusing.
20100404 00:24:20< pokhbocee> this tasks will lover possible moves more than half ( when you think pos moves are move,attack, defebd,retreat,guard, etc, etc)
20100404 00:24:30< shadowmaster> aha, apparently this software's "kernel" is what stopped working
20100404 00:24:44< Crab_> pokhbocee: in general, leader does three things: recruits and grabs first village, and moves to keep if away from it :)
20100404 00:24:47< shadowmaster> or at least the java application can't connect with this native app
20100404 00:25:01< Crab_> pokhbocee: also note that you don't need to deal with leader's moves at all, at least for the prototype
20100404 00:25:10< pokhbocee> since im not good player i couldnt be sure how people use the leader
20100404 00:25:18< pokhbocee> they dont use the leaders for attack or smth?
20100404 00:25:41< pokhbocee> the main tree going to be consist of all possible moves for each unit
20100404 00:25:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: they do, but not often, and only when it's safe, since it's fairly easy to lose him
20100404 00:25:55< pokhbocee> oh i see
20100404 00:26:02< pokhbocee> the prob. in main tree is
20100404 00:26:16-!- pen [~pencilche@isr6796.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 00:26:19< pokhbocee> we cannot use regular a* 
20100404 00:26:36< shadowmaster> too bad that I seem to be the only Internet user who's tried to run this crap on Debian squeeze. (And no one's going to convince me that it's a Debian bug, no.)
20100404 00:26:46< pen> hey
20100404 00:26:49< pokhbocee> since the each player may have different depth of tree
20100404 00:27:02< Crab_> pokhbocee:  if you add your code as a candidate action, you'll be able to use old ai recruitment/move to keep functions, and deal only with non-leader moves/attacks in your code
20100404 00:27:09< Crab_> pen: hello
20100404 00:27:35< pen> how's going?
20100404 00:27:40< Crab_> pen: good :))
20100404 00:28:02< pokhbocee> i have worked on little bit more overall ai not specifically
20100404 00:28:27< pen> I'm new here. I wonder what exactly you guys were discussing before? is it mostly path finding algorithm? just AI in general? or anything :)
20100404 00:28:44< pokhbocee> but my idea is the depth of tree for eac player will be number of units + number of leader(since leaders can both recruit and move)
20100404 00:29:01< pokhbocee> but tree get huge especially no units increase
20100404 00:29:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, the main point is that we want to see a prototype somewhen near 9th, so, it's ok if it's incomplete, but it'll be really good if it will work by them.
20100404 00:29:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: the number of units can be >50 per side
20100404 00:29:29< pokhbocee> upper limit??
20100404 00:29:51< Crab_> pokhbocee: no upper limit. play NR:Showdown (Northern Rebirth campaign) and see :)
20100404 00:30:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: it can easily have tens of units per side
20100404 00:30:31< Crab_> pen: pokhbocee is trying to code a prototype of the improved version of the AI.
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20100404 00:31:28< pen> cool
20100404 00:31:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: or, for example, if we start a MP game with 800 gold, we can spend it all to recruit ~50 units per side
20100404 00:32:10< Crab_> pen: nothing too cool yet, but I hope it'll be cool when it's ready :)
20100404 00:32:57< pokhbocee> Crab_ : should i work on these search algorithms and production of moves and their tree or focus on specific type of attack?
20100404 00:33:13< pokhbocee> i mean specific type of move (like attack, etc.)
20100404 00:33:36< Crab_> pokhbocee: I'd say that you need to pick a small enough area to be actually able to code a prototype in the time remaining.
20100404 00:33:37< pokhbocee> btw do we want ai to be controlled by a single method over all?
20100404 00:34:01< pokhbocee> i was planning to use stub methods for heuristics and move reporduction
20100404 00:34:10< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, it depends on you, what scope you'll pick now, and what you'll stub out
20100404 00:34:37< Crab_> pokhbocee: generally, we want the ai to be controlled from a single method which has some 'pluggable' pieces.
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20100404 00:35:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: to allow to override some small parts of the behavior without reimplementing the entire AI.
20100404 00:35:29< pokhbocee> Crab_: i was thinking to give an option to choose heuristic by user and depth and overall time to evaluate
20100404 00:36:26< pokhbocee> btw in my design up there i have 2 main problems. to changing a task of a unit (this is confusing)
20100404 00:37:17< pokhbocee> and following this one and the possibilty of our/enemy units to die and cause difficulty to calculate the depth of the tree
20100404 00:38:56< Crab_> note: well, even with depth=2 there should be some improvements in ai behavior
20100404 00:39:59< pokhbocee> Crab_: lets assume ill take the part attack. we expect it to generate valid moves and filter repetitions of similar moves and return a list ( or the best move)
20100404 00:40:06< pen> I wonder if you are implementing some sort of min-max tree?
20100404 00:41:05< pokhbocee> pen: yes but trying to make it more flexible and efficient. for example it wontbe min max but min,min,min,...,min,max,max,max,....,max
20100404 00:41:09< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, note that for attacks on a single unit, already up to 6 are considered.
20100404 00:42:04< pokhbocee> pen: which we dont now number of mins and max since the depth of tree is not fixed
20100404 00:42:32< Crab_> pen: generally, before we haven't used any trees for wesnoth AI, because of the huge number of positions (see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WhyWritingAWesnothAIIsHard ) . but, if pokhbocee says it'll work, it'll be good to try it out.
20100404 00:42:40< pokhbocee> Crab_: that function doesnt calculate over all possible attacks from our unit to enemy units
20100404 00:43:16< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, current one only considers 'all possible attacks from our units to single unit'
20100404 00:43:29< pokhbocee> Crab_: if there are 10 enemies it will be 10*6 possible attack ( lets assume they dontt have adjacent units)
20100404 00:43:38< pokhbocee> oh i was thinking completely oppsite
20100404 00:43:45< pokhbocee> like from our single unit to multiple units
20100404 00:44:01< pokhbocee> to choose which one and how to attack
20100404 00:44:39< pokhbocee> thats why the current ai always attacks to the closest unit all together
20100404 00:44:56< pokhbocee> closest enemy unit
20100404 00:45:20< Crab_> yes, current ai worships chance-to-kill, and for closest unit it's usually biggest, since we can attack it from multiple sides
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20100404 00:46:02< pokhbocee> Crab_: why do we want to attack with all our forces to a single unit
20100404 00:46:27< Crab_> because current AI wants to kill it
20100404 00:46:31< pokhbocee> shouldnt we implemented it in a more complex way because to attack single unit with all power doesnt seem tobe that intellgicent
20100404 00:46:47< Crab_> yes, there's definitely room for improvement here
20100404 00:46:53< pen> Crab_: yes, the branches grows really fast, but you can try to use alpha-beta pruning see if it will make it faster
20100404 00:47:12< Crab_> pen: there's a large amount of randomness :)
20100404 00:47:33< pokhbocee> isnt it more logical to determine the attack of each unit individually ( so they can attack to the one they have more advantage)
20100404 00:47:46< pokhbocee> pen: ofcourse alpha-beta pruning is always make it really really faster
20100404 00:47:50< pen> pokhbocee: or attack as a team
20100404 00:47:53< pen> yea
20100404 00:47:57< pen> or negascout
20100404 00:47:59< pen> maybe
20100404 00:48:04< pen> i'm just throwing ideas
20100404 00:48:16< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, the attacks are made one-by-one, so, after first attack is made, other can be reconsidered
20100404 00:48:33< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, the attack of each unit is determined individually.
20100404 00:48:43< pen> make decisions based on the state of the position of the team and opponents
20100404 00:48:45< Crab_> pokhbocee: but taking the potential follow-up attacks on the same enemy into acocunt
20100404 00:49:02< pokhbocee> but i have never used alpha -beta pruning on such a tree like this.(its easy when you use min-max search, but here its unknown)
20100404 00:49:47< Crab_> pen: yes, ' make decisions based on the state of the position of the team and opponents' is a good thing, but it requires position evaluators, and we have none available atm.
20100404 00:49:50< pokhbocee> Crab_ dont you think its more useful?
20100404 00:49:58< pen> oh
20100404 00:50:26< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, I describe things as they're now. there's a large number of things which can be improved, yes
20100404 00:50:29< pen> position evaluators
20100404 00:50:32< pen> interesting
20100404 00:51:05< Crab_> pokhbocee: your comment about 'attacking closest thing', for example, highlights one of the weaknesses of current ai target selection
20100404 00:51:34< pen> yes. it's like greedy algorith
20100404 00:51:54< pokhbocee> Crab_: then i would like to on functions responsible from creating the possible attack moves, filtering them, and choosing the best
20100404 00:52:13< pokhbocee> "i would like to work on ..." ^
20100404 00:52:50< pen> I think I can work on the position evaluator, since this is an important aspect for the game AI developement
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20100404 00:53:43< Crab_> pen: one of the good enough ideas to use position evaluators in described there: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding#Eval-based_AI
20100404 00:53:46< pokhbocee> but i have a question, how can we consider the possible moves of both our and enemies"
20100404 00:53:49< pokhbocee> enemies;
20100404 00:53:52< pokhbocee> enemies'
20100404 00:54:28< pokhbocee> if we do that for each unit it will make the cost n^2
20100404 00:54:40< Crab_> pokhbocee: you have access to current potential moves of enemies (enemy_srcdst and enemy_dstsrc)
20100404 00:54:47< pen> sure
20100404 00:55:01< pokhbocee> my concern was about complexity
20100404 00:55:25< pokhbocee> actually it will be n^3
20100404 00:56:43< Crab_> pokhbocee: the complexity of what ? and what is n ?
20100404 00:58:04< pokhbocee> Crab_: the tree, the top function searches the over all tree which consist, all moves for units then enemies, then ours again and so on..
20100404 00:58:25< pokhbocee> even calculating that one will take long. if we do it for all units again
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20100404 00:58:52< pokhbocee> it will take too long.
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20100404 00:59:18< pen> n^3 is normal I guess, but is it?
20100404 01:00:32< pokhbocee> my idea is wrong or we should just choose the move without considering anything else
20100404 01:00:34< Crab_> pen: no, it's worst case can be (c^N) for just our turn, where c is the number of moves for a single unit, and N is the number of our units
20100404 01:00:59< Crab_> pen: the worst case is when all attacks are related
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20100404 01:01:43< Crab_> pen: e.g. it does't matter in what sequence you do two moves, but it can matter in what sequence you do two attacks, or move+attack (because of leadership)
20100404 01:02:22< pokhbocee> Crab_: do you think it what i implement should just consider possible attack moves for that unit. and choose one of them without considering moves of other units or enemy units?
20100404 01:02:39< pen> pokhbocee: i think you should
20100404 01:02:54< Crab_> pokhbocee: try calculating the tree for two actions, for example, for 'move + attack'
20100404 01:03:20< Crab_> pokhbocee: where move is a 'move of unit which has leadership', and 'attack' is an attack
20100404 01:03:58< Crab_> 'leadership' ability makes the unit grant a combat bonus for adjacent allies
20100404 01:04:31< Crab_> so, if we consider move_of_unit_with_leadership + attack\attack_move, we'll be able to select best attack taking leadership into account
20100404 01:05:21< Crab_> if we, then, extend this to 'move_of_unit_with_leadership,several attacks,move_of_unit_with_leadership,several attacks,move_of_unit_with_leadership,several attacks,...,move_of_unit_with_leadership,several attacks), then we'll teach the ai to use leadership effeciently.
20100404 01:05:21< pen> so it is also possible to access abilities information from each unit?
20100404 01:05:30< pen> and the one currently in effect?
20100404 01:05:30< Crab_> from c++, yes
20100404 01:05:45< Crab_> from c++, yes
20100404 01:05:50< pen> :)
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20100404 01:07:27< Crab_> pokhbocee: your tree will be limited in this case, because we'll consider only moves of units with leadership, and we'll only consider possible attacks by the units adjacent to `current` position of unit with leadership.
20100404 01:08:00< Crab_> pokhbocee: and, even with this limitation, there'll still be a concrete benefit ('ai uses leadership effeciently')
20100404 01:08:24< pokhbocee> im confused
20100404 01:08:39< pokhbocee> should i only implement the attack for leader?
20100404 01:08:43< pokhbocee> not for every unit
20100404 01:08:44< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, let's restart.. 
20100404 01:08:48< Crab_> leadership!=leader
20100404 01:08:54< Crab_> leadership = ability
20100404 01:09:14< pokhbocee> ohhh
20100404 01:09:29< pokhbocee> it doesnt mean that it can recruit
20100404 01:09:30< Crab_> leadership: this unit grants combat bonus to adjacent allies.
20100404 01:09:32< Crab_> yes
20100404 01:09:44< pokhbocee> ohhh okk
20100404 01:09:49< Upthorn> Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time just now, but I was wondering, what is Lua used for in scenario/campaign development?
20100404 01:10:12< Crab_> Upthorn: hello. it's used for adding new custom WML tags
20100404 01:10:29< Crab_> Upthorn: also, it's used for scripting complex actions which require loops to handle
20100404 01:11:04< Crab_> Upthorn: anything else you'd like to know ?
20100404 01:11:29< Upthorn> Nah, I was just trying to figure out if there'll be any need to touch the way Lua works for world persistence
20100404 01:11:35< Upthorn> and it sounds like there will not be.
20100404 01:11:39< Crab_> Upthorn: by ' adding new custom WML tags' I mean that it's possible to associate a lua function with a WML tag, creating new wml tag or redefining existing one.
20100404 01:11:58< Crab_> lua can be used to get wml variables, too
20100404 01:12:17< Crab_> in general, if you make it work for WML, lua will be able to use it too
20100404 01:15:11< pokhbocee> Crab_: what if unit doesnt have a leadership against to any of the enemy units?
20100404 01:15:34< Crab_> pokhbocee: can you re-phrase your question ?
20100404 01:18:03< pokhbocee> Crab_: if unit doesnt have any advantage to any of the enemy units
20100404 01:18:18< pokhbocee> that unit will stay still? or what?
20100404 01:18:59< Crab_> you mean 'what if the ai units doens't have any good attacks to do' ?
20100404 01:19:55< pen> pokhbocee: it is up to the AI to decide if it's worth standing still or do some suboptimal moves
20100404 01:20:28< pokhbocee> yes
20100404 01:20:54< Crab_> pokhbocee: see data/ai/ais/testing_ai_default.cfg
20100404 01:21:08< Crab_> pokhbocee: certain actions happen after combat, with lower priority
20100404 01:21:19< pokhbocee> dont you mean a huge advantage by saying leadership(such as unit that have arcade attack, has advantage against undead)
20100404 01:21:37< Crab_> those are 'seek healing, seek villages to capture, retreat to safer location, move closer to important locations'
20100404 01:21:59< Crab_> leadership grants a +25% damage bonus per level difference between unit with leadership and the unit which is attacking
20100404 01:22:30< Crab_> for example, if we move a L3 unit with leadership adjacent to a strong spearman which is 8-3, it'll do 12-3 instead
20100404 01:22:50< Crab_> (spearman is L1, so two levels of difference, so +50% damage)
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20100404 01:23:45< Crab_> and, to use leadership effeciently, we need to think in-depth, as we can move our unit-with-leadership to several places during the turn
20100404 01:23:46< pokhbocee> ohhh
20100404 01:24:59< pokhbocee> ohhhh so attack method will organize and choose attacks for all units, while considering leadership
20100404 01:25:05< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes
20100404 01:25:31< Crab_> pokhbocee: imagine a long line of L1 units standing next to line of enemies, and L3 unit-with-leadership with lots of moves
20100404 01:25:31< pokhbocee> all campagins has leadership?
20100404 01:25:56< Crab_> L3 can move next to the beginning of line, let first L1s attack, move a few hexes, let next adjacent L1s attack, etc
20100404 01:26:05< Crab_> thus, it'll help multiple units per turn
20100404 01:26:09< Crab_> pokhbocee: most
20100404 01:26:19< pokhbocee> ohhh ok.
20100404 01:26:31< pokhbocee> i see
20100404 01:27:01< pokhbocee> hmm ok.
20100404 01:27:38< Crab_> see http://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/C/mainline.html
20100404 01:28:11< Crab_> leadership is important in mp games, too, since some of the leaders have leadership
20100404 01:28:45< Crab_> so, a player can select a leader with leadership, and use it in early skirmishes, behind the combat lines, to keep it safe yet use its +25% bonus (starting leader is L2 in MP)
20100404 01:29:13< Crab_> and that +25%, especially when combined with correct time of day, can really make a difference
20100404 01:30:48< pokhbocee> ok, should i consider the state that enemy is not in range? or for now just implement the war scene?
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20100404 01:31:30< Crab_> pokhbocee: consider only movements of unit-with-leadership and move-attack of units already in combat range
20100404 01:33:02< pokhbocee> allright
20100404 01:33:54< Greywhind> apologies if this has been asked and answered by someone else: is GNA SVN down at the moment (and thus Wesnoth SVN)?
20100404 01:34:08< Crab_> Greywhind: yes, it's down (
20100404 01:34:27< Crab_> Greywhind: happens sometimes, when they have hardware problems. not too often.
20100404 01:34:29< pokhbocee> btw i dont think there is a is_enemy method for lua
20100404 01:34:31< Greywhind> damn, i was going to try to start coding a patch tonight and get more progress on my proposal :0/
20100404 01:34:36< pokhbocee> i coulnt find the documentation
20100404 01:34:48< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, there's probably no such method. add it :)
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20100404 01:35:22< pokhbocee> :D but how can i obtain the allies information
20100404 01:35:32< pokhbocee> ai.ally? or smth
20100404 01:35:40< pokhbocee> no i didnt see it in the list
20100404 01:35:55< Crab_> Greywhind: get a source code tarball from sourceforge ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.8.tar.bz2/download )
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20100404 01:36:23< Greywhind> Crab_: i assume i shouldn't submit patches against that, though?
20100404 01:37:05< Crab_> Greywhind: it's from 4 days ago, so , not much has changed
20100404 01:37:22< Crab_> Greywhind: so, when gna is back online, you'll be able to rebase your patch without big issues
20100404 01:38:07< Greywhind> well, i'll at least use it to get some idea of what parts of the code are for what :P
20100404 01:38:10< Greywhind> thanks for the link
20100404 01:38:48< Crab_> Greywhind: but you'll be able to start hacking immediately (provided that you get that ~300 mb of source) :)
20100404 01:39:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: is_enemy in team.hpp, in c++
20100404 01:39:16< Crab_> pokhbocee: it isn't exposed to lua yet.
20100404 01:39:54< Greywhind> i probably would have to spend some time reading first anyway, so it'll work fine for that
20100404 01:40:02< Crab_> good :))
20100404 01:40:07< Crab_> good luck to you, then :)
20100404 01:40:10< Greywhind> thanks much
20100404 01:41:01< Crab_> Greywhind: the most important points is to be really active on irc and polish your proposal, adding content and description about things you'll do. then, code a few patches to get commit access (it should be quite easy to do)
20100404 01:41:24< Crab_> and, before 9th april, submit your proposal to google.
20100404 01:43:08< Crab_> Greywhind: is there anything else you want to know now ?
20100404 01:44:20< pokhbocee> Crab_: how can i expose them?
20100404 01:45:01< Crab_> pokhbocee: firstly, decide if its ai-specific or not. it's probably not. then add it to the right place (to wesnoth table, in case of not ai-specific things)
20100404 01:45:07< Crab_> it's in  src/scripting/lua.cpp
20100404 01:45:36< Crab_> if it's ai-specific, it would be added to the ai table (which is 1-per-ai, and constructed in the same file) 
20100404 01:46:42< Crab_> you can also modify impl_side_get to add accessor to this info
20100404 01:50:53< pokhbocee> how do we pass the parameters?
20100404 01:51:18< Crab_> we use standard c bindings for lua
20100404 01:52:32< Crab_> see intf_get_terrain as an example
20100404 01:52:50< Crab_> it accepts two integers and returns a string
20100404 01:53:05< Crab_> is_enemy accepts two integers and returns a bool, quite similar.
20100404 02:02:33< pokhbocee> Crab_: http://pastebin.com/ww54kaXG
20100404 02:03:05< pokhbocee> i wrote the code, but i think i need an if statement because not every method call may not have 2 parameters right?
20100404 02:03:29< pokhbocee> so can i understand the is_enemy is called?
20100404 02:03:55< Crab_> you don't need return_bool_attrib
20100404 02:04:06< Crab_> just push a boolean to stack
20100404 02:04:34< Crab_> also, you should check the side arguments for being correct, otherwise the code will segfault on wrong side
20100404 02:04:47< Crab_> also, side is 1-based
20100404 02:04:53< Crab_> and, teams vector is 0-based
20100404 02:05:09-!- pen [~pencilche@isr6796.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Quit: Windmill Windmill for the love.]
20100404 02:05:38< pokhbocee> Crab_: lua_pushnumber(L, accessor); with this ill push it right?
20100404 02:06:01< pokhbocee> actually isnt it what return bool attrib does?
20100404 02:06:08< Crab_> pokhbocee: no, not this :)
20100404 02:06:13< pokhbocee> index prob. is fixed
20100404 02:06:14< Crab_> and, you'll need lua_pushboolean
20100404 02:09:38< pokhbocee> Crab_: http://pastebin.com/6HJPe6PM 
20100404 02:09:48< pokhbocee> but i still think we need an if statement there
20100404 02:11:07< Crab_> you still don't check the side number for being correct, so the code will still segfault on wrong argument
20100404 02:11:39< Crab_> see intf_get_side for an example. note the consequences of size_t conversion.
20100404 02:11:44< pokhbocee> i thought it was responsibility of the user
20100404 02:11:59< pokhbocee> to check boundaries
20100404 02:11:59< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, the code should not crash on bad input.
20100404 02:12:39< pokhbocee> Crab_: ok, ill fix it now, do we need an if statement ? 
20100404 02:12:54< Crab_> pokhbocee: why have you used  lua_setfield(L, -2, "is_enemy"); ?
20100404 02:13:10< pokhbocee> that is the way it is used in the engine
20100404 02:13:17< Crab_> what for ?
20100404 02:13:23< Crab_> what it will do ?
20100404 02:13:24< pokhbocee> and i thought it was necessary to understand is_enemy method is called
20100404 02:13:50< Crab_> well, what value this function should return to lua ?
20100404 02:13:53< pokhbocee> i imported this into  impl_side_get(lua_State *L)
20100404 02:14:25< pokhbocee> http://pastebin.com/2iYCWykh
20100404 02:15:11< Crab_> pokhbocee: what is located at stack index -2 when you call lua_setfield(L, -2, "is_enemy");  ?
20100404 02:16:11< pokhbocee> i.e in line ~1430 its used in that way
20100404 02:16:16< pokhbocee> in lua.cpp
20100404 02:16:48< Crab_> yes, but at ~1430 the stack is different
20100404 02:17:06< Crab_> so, there, at -2 we have a table which'll be used to collect this info
20100404 02:17:22< pokhbocee> i thought -1 is the data and -2 is the label for that data
20100404 02:18:08< pokhbocee> oh you suggest to make a new method for is_enemy instead of using impl_side_get
20100404 02:18:25< Crab_> yes, new method will be simpler to get right
20100404 02:18:35< pokhbocee> ok
20100404 02:18:58< Crab_> yes, you can make impl_side_get expose a function to get is_enemy(other_side), while still keeping it to 1 argument
20100404 02:19:12< Crab_> -1 and -2 are stack indexes
20100404 02:19:24< Crab_> so, their meaning depends on 'what's currently in stack'
20100404 02:20:13< pokhbocee> the location of method within file is matter? do you have a procedure for it, such as new methods are at the end or methods that is concerned about similar objects are together etc?
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20100404 02:20:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: no, it seems that there's no strict ordering in there
20100404 02:21:25< pokhbocee> Crab_: i think its safer to implement it in impl_side_get
20100404 02:21:43< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, but keep it to use only 1 argument.
20100404 02:22:04< Crab_> e.g., to be used like " wesnoth.get_side(1).is_enemy(4) "
20100404 02:22:22< Crab_> pokhbocee: it will be harder
20100404 02:22:52< pokhbocee> really?
20100404 02:22:56< pokhbocee> why?
20100404 02:23:01< Crab_> yes, as you'll need to return a function in case the code asks for is_enemy
20100404 02:23:26< Crab_> so, implement it in impl_side_get will really mean 'implement a stand-alone function, and use it in impl_side_get, closed on 1st arg'
20100404 02:23:51< Crab_> we want get_side to be called with 1 argument
20100404 02:23:55< Crab_> and is_enemy requires 2
20100404 02:24:30< Crab_> so, if we put it in get_side, we need to return a function with the first argument 'bound',and then let the user code supply the 2nd argument
20100404 02:25:47< Crab_> you cannot simply return a boolean value directly from get_side, since you don't know the 2nd argument at that point
20100404 02:26:42< pokhbocee> i see
20100404 02:26:52< pokhbocee> i got ur point
20100404 02:26:56< pokhbocee> ill make it in a new method
20100404 02:27:19< pokhbocee> what about the name?
20100404 02:27:29< pokhbocee> what sould be method name in this case?
20100404 02:27:37< Crab_> in lua, wesnoth.is_enemy seems fine to me
20100404 02:27:48< Crab_> intf_is_enemy is the c name, then
20100404 02:28:17< Crab_> it'll be renamed anyway if gsoc project for alliance system is accepted :)
20100404 02:28:54< pokhbocee> :D
20100404 02:34:38< pokhbocee> should i check if sides are equal to each other?
20100404 02:35:27< Crab_> no
20100404 02:35:54< Crab_> code in team.?pp checks for this. i.e. 'We're not enemies of ourselves'
20100404 02:36:14< pokhbocee> http://pastebin.com/jny8YybB
20100404 02:40:23< Crab_> pokhbocee: it's better to use 'size_t side2' instead of  'int side_2' - that way, you'll avoid some compiler warnings and there'll be no need to check for side_2 < 0. 
20100404 02:40:27< Crab_> (same for side_1)
20100404 02:40:40< pokhbocee> ohh ok
20100404 02:40:44< pokhbocee> the rest is ok?
20100404 02:40:50< Crab_> yes, looks ok
20100404 02:40:55< Crab_> register this function, and try if it works
20100404 02:41:09< pokhbocee> question about close_enemies
20100404 02:41:10< Crab_> HttT 1 is a good scenario to test it , via :lua in-game console command
20100404 02:41:27< pokhbocee> filter searches the array sequentially
20100404 02:42:43< pokhbocee> my point is to use side filter is faster to get all units and check their all sides as i did before
20100404 02:43:48< Crab_> if you get all units, you need to check their locations, as well
20100404 02:44:16< pokhbocee> no right now
20100404 02:44:21< pokhbocee> i get all the units within the range
20100404 02:44:36< pokhbocee> but i thought if i filter the ai's side and its allies
20100404 02:44:42< Crab_> yes, then you don't get 'all units', you get 'all within radius'
20100404 02:44:44< pokhbocee> it could be faster maybe
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20100404 02:45:22< pokhbocee> now im getting all within the radius
20100404 02:45:22< Crab_> yes, you can calculate the list of enemy sides beforehand, and then invoke a SUF in wesnoth.get_units to get the enemy units within range
20100404 02:45:39< Crab_> or, you can check sides after you get 'all units in radius'
20100404 02:45:43< pokhbocee> is it faster than sequential check?
20100404 02:45:57< pokhbocee> right now i check after getting all units in radius
20100404 02:46:03< Crab_> pokhbocee: generally, delegating work to SUF is a better way to do
20100404 02:46:15< pokhbocee> ok
20100404 02:46:16< Crab_> since, if someone improves the speed of SUF, then every and each usage is fixed
20100404 02:47:38< pokhbocee> instead of wesnoth.get_units({{"filter_location", {x= 10, y= 6, radius =4 }}}) , i can will do wesnoth.get_units({side = side_enemy}, {{"filter_location", {x= 10, y= 6, radius =4 }}})
20100404 02:48:08< Crab_> pokhbocee: there can be multiple enemy sides
20100404 02:48:27< Crab_> but, SUF's side is: the unit is on the given side (can be a list) 
20100404 02:48:27< pokhbocee> and do this for all sides of enemy and make a 2 d array 
20100404 02:49:02< pokhbocee> ??
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20100404 02:49:33< Crab_>  wesnoth.get_units({side = unpack(enemies)}, {{"filter_location", {x= 10, y= 6, radius =4 }}})
20100404 02:49:52< Crab_> not sure about {}, copied them from you
20100404 02:50:09< Crab_> basically, side=2,5,6 will work
20100404 02:50:16< Crab_> if 2,5,6 are enemy sides
20100404 02:50:22< pokhbocee> ohh ok
20100404 02:52:04< Crab_> bye
20100404 02:52:09< pokhbocee> oh
20100404 02:52:12< pokhbocee> one last qiues.
20100404 02:52:23< pokhbocee> i think there is no method to get teams
20100404 02:52:24< pokhbocee> in lua
20100404 02:52:27< pokhbocee> can i expose it too?
20100404 02:52:47< Crab_> intf_get_side ? 
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20100404 02:53:39< pokhbocee> i meant the
20100404 02:53:40< pokhbocee> array
20100404 02:53:57< pokhbocee> teams which is array holds the list of sides
20100404 02:54:24< pokhbocee> or is there a function to get list of sides?
20100404 02:55:14< Crab_> I think that it's a good idea to add a function to get a number of sides.
20100404 02:55:30< Crab_> then, it'll be possible to combine the two in lua, to get that vector, if needed
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20100404 02:59:07< ctrlfreak> hi
20100404 02:59:15< pokhbocee> hey
20100404 02:59:39< ctrlfreak> i'm interested in google summer of code
20100404 02:59:45< ctrlfreak> (as a student)
20100404 02:59:52< pokhbocee> me too :D
20100404 03:00:07< ctrlfreak> have you done it before?
20100404 03:00:11< pokhbocee> nope
20100404 03:00:13< pokhbocee> 1st time
20100404 03:00:20< ctrlfreak> same
20100404 03:01:00< happygrue> ctrlfreak: you have read this?  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#I_want_to_be_one_of_your_Google_Summer_of_Code_students.2C_what_should_I_do...
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20100404 03:01:22< ctrlfreak> happygrue: yes
20100404 03:01:52< happygrue> good.  :) welcome to #wesnoth-dev
20100404 03:02:12< pokhbocee> happygrue: the side doesnt have to be in order from 1 to n; right?
20100404 03:02:35< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100404 03:03:29< ctrlfreak> i haven't played around with wesnoth for a while though
20100404 03:03:54< ctrlfreak> so i don't really know what's been going on or have some amazingly brilliant new project ideas
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20100404 03:05:05< pokhbocee> ctrlfreak: i suggest you to go over suggested ideas. u can use them as ur proposed idea, or they may give u a clue to create ur own idea
20100404 03:05:22< ctrlfreak> yeah, i've taken a look at them
20100404 03:07:02< happygrue> pokhbocee: I am not sure
20100404 03:07:40< pokhbocee>  it seems to be they r in complete order
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20100404 03:12:33< pen> hi
20100404 03:12:41< pokhbocee> hey
20100404 03:12:50< pen> hey are you a student too?
20100404 03:13:44< pokhbocee> yes
20100404 03:13:59< pen> coool
20100404 03:14:01< pen> :D
20100404 03:14:03< pokhbocee> :)
20100404 03:14:21< RandomDragon> so am I, as it happens :D
20100404 03:14:31< ctrlfreak> oh cool
20100404 03:14:31< pen> :)
20100404 03:14:39< RandomDragon> Wesnoth seems to be popular with GSoC :D
20100404 03:14:44< pen> yea
20100404 03:14:44< happygrue> pokhbocee: are you talking about in a scenario or somewhere else?
20100404 03:14:50< ctrlfreak> heh, who wouldn't want them as a mentor organization
20100404 03:14:57< pen> :)
20100404 03:15:58< happygrue> when defining sides for a scenario I am pretty sure it doesn't matter
20100404 03:16:01< pokhbocee> happygrue: i have encountered it almost every where
20100404 03:16:17< happygrue> yeah, I guess I'm not sure about everywhere but in WML it should not matter?
20100404 03:16:29< happygrue> but is there a reason to do it otherwise?
20100404 03:16:31< pokhbocee> happygrue: it is kinda index of of the team,
20100404 03:16:36< pokhbocee> yes yes i think it same in wml
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20100404 03:17:13< pokhbocee> i am looking for a list the contains all of the side numbers
20100404 03:17:50< pokhbocee> but in c++ there is a teams array and each team is called with their side(as index in array) so I assume they must be in order
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20100404 03:22:52< pokhbocee> gnite everybody
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20100404 04:27:40< pen> bye
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20100404 04:58:02< pen> hi
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20100404 07:26:58< billynux> anybody know basic cmake ?
20100404 07:27:14< billynux> I need to check for file existence (a header file)
20100404 07:27:22< billynux> and a library
20100404 07:27:33< billynux> find_file doesn't seem to be helping
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20100404 07:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: proposals are to be submitted to Google before 9th April 19:00 UTC. Also, when your wiki page is ready, ask us to review it. | 80 bugs, 259 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100404 08:34:26< mordante> servus
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20100404 08:52:18< billynux> hi mordante 
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20100404 08:52:52< mordante> hi billynux 
20100404 08:53:17< billynux> I've been working on the prototype for the network rewrite
20100404 08:53:32< ghyr-easeus> hi
20100404 08:53:43< billynux> I had a couple of headaches with my first cmake experience
20100404 08:54:03< billynux> I have some code for you to check... just to see if it resembles what you are looking for
20100404 08:54:33< billynux> It features 3 executables... a dedicated server, a single client and a dual Server/Client
20100404 08:54:38< ghyr-easeus> There are words about Wesnoth going shareware...
20100404 08:54:57< ghyr-easeus> I hope that it's false...?
20100404 08:54:59< billynux> you with me mordante ? :)
20100404 08:55:13< billynux> I dunno ghyr-easeus ... :S
20100404 08:55:47< billynux> code released under a free software license would remain as such
20100404 08:56:18< ghyr-easeus> If you don't believe me - check this forum thread: http://www.wesnothlife.ru/forum/index.php?topic=296.0 (RUSSIAN!)
20100404 08:56:49< mordante> billynux, can you post the code somewhere?
20100404 08:57:17< billynux> it's up on a different project's svn repo.
20100404 08:57:38< billynux> mordante, : http://code.google.com/p/fud/source/browse/#svn/trunk/sandbox/asio
20100404 08:57:43< mordante> ghyr-easeus, that would require relicensing the software... so don't expect it
20100404 08:58:25< ancestral> ghry-easeys: No worries! That was simply an elaborate, April Fool's Day hoax
20100404 08:58:30< billynux> ghyr-easeus, my russian is a little rusty! :D (meaning, no clue)
20100404 08:58:36< ancestral> *ghyr-easeus
20100404 08:58:40< billynux> lol
20100404 08:59:07< billynux> there is a bunch of code there... I should probably clean a lot of it up
20100404 08:59:13< ghyr-easeus> * sigh of relief *
20100404 08:59:17< billynux> :)
20100404 08:59:54< ghyr-easeus> Then I should lock this topic? (I'm a moderator at this russian forum)
20100404 09:00:03< billynux> mordante, cmake might not work properly, I haven't gotten the hang of it
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20100404 09:00:52< billynux> ghyr-easeus, in the spirit of April Fool's, just make a comic remark
20100404 09:01:42< ghyr-easeus> got 1 idea
20100404 09:01:49< ghyr-easeus> about wesnoth going steam
20100404 09:01:55< billynux> nice :D
20100404 09:02:09< ghyr-easeus> and it will cost $45...
20100404 09:02:50< billynux> remember: ludicrous is better, but don't let it escalate to panic (which it shouldn't)
20100404 09:03:31< billynux> so mordante , just wanted to let you know about the code... I'll be dropping by daily, and probably I should expand the prototype to something more suited to what you guys want
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20100404 09:04:09< ghyr-easeus> Locked.
20100404 09:04:11< mordante> billynux, you also want to use mili in your gsoc project?
20100404 09:04:17< ghyr-easeus> This thread is not helping.
20100404 09:04:18< billynux> I need to document this better, add some design docs and stuff... but right now I need to sleep to avoid a couple-crisis
20100404 09:04:31< billynux> maybe...
20100404 09:04:46< mordante> when will you be back billynux ?
20100404 09:04:48< billynux> its a simple serialization library I did
20100404 09:04:57< billynux> say 10 hours
20100404 09:05:06< billynux> Its GPL code anyway
20100404 09:05:29< billynux> you probably have your own stuff for this kind of things
20100404 09:05:34< ghyr-easeus> Interesting: What will be in 1.9.0?
20100404 09:05:40< billynux> meaning protocol, serialization, etc...
20100404 09:06:00< mordante> yes just make sure it's discussed on the dev-ml before including and Debian stable doesn't include it
20100404 09:06:01< billynux> as is... this lib. has a different-architecture-bug...
20100404 09:06:12< mordante> but of course since it's header only we can copy the files
20100404 09:06:47< billynux> yes... as I said, its just prototyping for the moment, now that you ask the question... I wouldn't think I would use it
20100404 09:06:50< mordante> I'll have look at the code when you get back so we can discuss it
20100404 09:07:04< billynux> meaning: I'll check how you do things as of now
20100404 09:07:15< billynux> great
20100404 09:07:29< mordante> for others interested in billynux's work the svn checkout link is http://fud.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/sandbox/asio
20100404 09:07:53< billynux> thanks!
20100404 09:08:01< mordante> you're welcome
20100404 09:08:07< billynux> I'm happy I'm learning cmake...
20100404 09:08:25< billynux> I was considering autotools (and studied it a bit) for the FuD (same repo.) build system
20100404 09:08:39< billynux> but it is really obfuscated stuff
20100404 09:09:05< mordante> yes and it's not crossplatform, while cmake is
20100404 09:09:55< billynux> exactly... and that framework should be! (intended to be a small BOINC if you will)
20100404 09:10:25< mordante> ok
20100404 09:10:26< billynux> all right... gotta crash now, thanks again mordante, I expect to be back around 10 hours from now
20100404 09:10:34< mordante> ok see you later
20100404 09:10:40< billynux> later
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20100404 10:51:31< Ivanovic> moin
20100404 10:51:39< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20100404 11:08:11< Ivanovic> mordante, ilor: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29435&start=0
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20100404 11:08:50< Ivanovic> i was able to get this crash when hitting refresh and only 1 game would be shown
20100404 11:09:15< mordante> would be nice if people submitted bugs in the tracker... ;-)
20100404 11:09:21< loonycyborg> So svn.gna.org is still down? :/
20100404 11:09:27< mordante> yes :-(
20100404 11:09:34< Ivanovic> sadly yes
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20100404 11:12:57< stikonas> this is probably the longest svn.gna.org downtime ever :(
20100404 11:13:24< mordante> no it isn't
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20100404 13:31:15< Crab__> silene: hi, can you take a look at https://gna.org/patch/?1432#comment18 and say if it's ok to simplify the code there ?
20100404 13:33:35< silene> Crab__: it's fine; but i have missed the whole point of the patch, since no callers expect an arbitrary number of return values; someone intends to add such a function?
20100404 13:34:28< Crab__> there's already a function which uses the LUA_MULTRET
20100404 13:35:17< Crab__> Darkas added it, and found that luaW_pcall needs to be improved to support it
20100404 13:36:30< Crab__> the code snipped there is part of a patch, which went into 1.8 to add support for lua ai candidate actions. you weren't around then, and we decided to not touch the old code path, just in case
20100404 13:36:50< Crab__> *snippet
20100404 13:37:16< silene> Crab__: indeed, now that you mention it, i see you added two usages of multret in the code, and both of them are wrong
20100404 13:37:56< Crab__> what's wrong with them and how they should be fixed ?
20100404 13:38:16< silene> multret is  for arbitrary return values; your first usage expects 0 values, the second one at most 2; 0 and 2 are not arbitrary numbers
20100404 13:42:20< Crab__> so, in the second case, we had to call luaW_pcall, expecting 'at most 2' return values, and then check (comparing new lua_gettop to start value) how many were actually returned ?
20100404 13:43:35< silene> Crab__: 2 return values, and then you test them with lua_isnoneornil(L, -2) and -1
20100404 13:43:57< Crab__> ok, understood. thanks.
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20100404 13:44:24< silene> in other words, not need to ask the lua machine to switch into a slow unbounded-stack mode if the caller will read only a few results
20100404 13:44:32< Crab__> yes, I now understand.
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20100404 13:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: proposals are to be submitted to Google before 9th April 19:00 UTC. Also, when your wiki page is ready, ask us to review it. | 82 bugs, 260 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100404 17:15:51< AI0867> gna is *still* down?
20100404 17:19:17< silene> and i guess it will be down till tuesday
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20100404 17:25:26< fakedrake> ivanovic: was crab online earlier?
20100404 17:25:39< fakedrake> ivanovic: hello first of all
20100404 17:26:12< fakedrake> Ivanovic
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20100404 17:29:39< fakedrake> anyway i might drop by in the evening
20100404 17:29:41< fakedrake> b
20100404 17:29:42< fakedrake> b
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20100404 18:24:43< shadowmaster> shadowm@bluecore:~/src/wesnoth$ git svn rebase
20100404 18:24:43< shadowmaster> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/lib/perl5/SVN/Core.pm line 584.
20100404 18:24:48< shadowmaster> Network connection closed unexpectedly:  at /usr/lib/git-core/git-svn line 2290
20100404 18:25:02< shadowmaster> I assume this is libsvn's way to say that the repository server is down?
20100404 18:25:49< shadowmaster> well, yeah, it is.
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20100404 18:38:43< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: It's down for about two days already.
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20100404 19:33:42< mordante> esr, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=419545 did you talk with beetlenaut about svn access?
20100404 19:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: proposals are to be submitted to Google before 9th April 19:00 UTC. Also, when your wiki page is ready, ask us to review it. | 80 bugs, 259 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100404 20:00:19< mordante> I'm off bye
20100404 20:00:29< timotei21> bye mordante
20100404 20:00:40< timotei21> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100404 20:00:41< wesbot> timotei21: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 17h 5m ago.  8h 18m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100404 20:00:45-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20100404 20:13:09< timotei21> any wml-guru online?
20100404 20:18:46-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 20:21:42< Gambit> timotei21: Can you settle for half a guru?
20100404 20:22:16< timotei21> well, is ok. let's see
20100404 20:22:26< timotei21> is it allowed to do imbricated macros?
20100404 20:22:28< timotei21> for example:
20100404 20:22:43< timotei21> {MY_UNIT {GETUNIT_HP_BY_NAME NAME} ...}
20100404 20:22:48< Gambit> Yes.
20100404 20:22:53< timotei21> oh god
20100404 20:23:30< timotei21> btw, I'm working on the eclipse plugin. do you have in mind some other ideas to be implemented than the others in the wiki page?
20100404 20:24:19< timotei21> here is that page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Eclipse_Plugin
20100404 20:24:44< Gambit> Website is so unresponsive today... :\
20100404 20:24:59< timotei21> oh, so it's from the website? I thought my internet is stupid
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20100404 20:25:26< billynux> hi Crab_ 
20100404 20:25:34< Crab_> hi, billynux
20100404 20:25:47< timotei21> hello Crab_ , didn't see you online:P
20100404 20:26:06< timotei21> will have some questions, but after billynux 
20100404 20:26:12< Crab_> ok
20100404 20:26:15< billynux> :)
20100404 20:26:29< billynux> It's not like we take turns
20100404 20:26:54< billynux> anyway... did you see that I uploaded a prototype of the asio server/client scheme?
20100404 20:27:08< billynux> http://fud.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/sandbox/asio
20100404 20:27:12< timotei21> well, I have to rework my proposal, so it's better to let Crab_  focus on one thing at time:P
20100404 20:27:23< billynux> there is a lot of polishing to be done
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20100404 20:28:00< Crab_> billynux: yes, I've seen it in the log
20100404 20:28:06< billynux> great...
20100404 20:28:19< Crab_> I've looked through the code, but haven't launched it yet
20100404 20:28:50< billynux> ok, you can run a server (selecting the port), a client (choosing address:port) and a dual server/client app
20100404 20:29:24< billynux> (that acts as a server but also connects to a different running server and broadcasts all incoming messages to all its connected clients)
20100404 20:29:53< billynux> I fooled around cmake and it's pretty neat
20100404 20:30:13< billynux> although a little tough to get it going
20100404 20:31:50< Crab_> but once it's up, it's easy to maintain
20100404 20:32:20< billynux> yes, so it seems
20100404 20:32:48< billynux> I was going with autotools for my thesis work, but will definitely use cmake now :)
20100404 20:33:19< billynux> so, when you have time, let me know how I can modify that code to better suit what needs to be done
20100404 20:33:38< billynux> meanwhile I'll keep looking at the original code, figuring out the work ahead
20100404 20:34:00< Crab_> billynux: do you see any potential problems/pitfalls ahead ?
20100404 20:34:17< billynux> not really
20100404 20:34:27< billynux> design is always critical here
20100404 20:35:21< billynux> if that gets screwed up, then it is a pitfall
20100404 20:35:33< Crab_> ok. a small note - see the wesnoth's c++ coding conventions ( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards )
20100404 20:35:40< billynux> but I don't see many technical difficulties in the design
20100404 20:35:48< billynux> I had a quick look at it
20100404 20:36:11< billynux> but kept my old style conventions for this prototype
20100404 20:36:14< Crab_> ok
20100404 20:36:24< billynux> would you like me to switch to yours?
20100404 20:36:53< Crab_> billynux: you'll have to do so eventually. it's not required to switch to them now, but I needed to be sure that you know ours.
20100404 20:38:19< billynux> yes, I was aware, and any code uploading should/will be to the standards used in that repository
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20100404 20:39:06< Crab_> good
20100404 20:40:53< Crab_> billynux: installing the dependencies for your prototype atm, this'll take some time
20100404 20:41:25< billynux> ok, mili : sudo ./install.sh
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20100404 20:41:46< billynux> (don't download the releases, but checkout the trunk)
20100404 20:42:34< billynux> getopt_pp: make ; make install ; make install_headers 
20100404 20:43:50< Crab_> billynux: what is the usage of mili ?
20100404 20:44:06< billynux> mordante asked the same question
20100404 20:44:17< billynux> I developed a serialization library there
20100404 20:44:20< billynux> binstreams
20100404 20:44:55< billynux> The idea is that you can: OutputStream oss; oss << 1 << 2 << vect << string("hello");
20100404 20:45:12< billynux> then do something like socket.send( oss.str() )
20100404 20:45:46< billynux> and on the other side build an InputStream from the data received there, and input directly like a FiFo:
20100404 20:46:26< billynux> socket.receive( buffer ); InputStream iss( buffer ); iss >> numb1 >> numb2 >> vect >> str;
20100404 20:46:52< billynux> it's a neat trick with ugly code using reinterpret_cast
20100404 20:48:12< billynux> I didn't mean to include it for Wesnoth, but wouldn't mind to
20100404 20:50:44< Crab_> billynux: ok, compiled it (needed to hack cmake build files to include pthread, and to fix one of the .cpp files to include <boost/bind.hpp>
20100404 20:51:11< billynux> yes, I thought that cmake file was incomplete...
20100404 20:51:42< billynux> if you could be so kind, paste the diff (or the entire file) somewhere :P (pastebin?)
20100404 20:54:18< Crab_> billynux: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/Pg9L49Wh
20100404 20:54:28< billynux> thanks
20100404 20:54:31< Crab_> billynux: but my change to cmake file is a certain non-portable hack.
20100404 20:54:47< Crab_> change to .cpp file is correct, though.
20100404 20:55:08< billynux> yes
20100404 20:57:54< billynux> Crab_: that prototype is not full-duplex right now... clients don't send messages to servers, etc...
20100404 20:58:14< billynux> but, again, that is just adding more code that looks pretty similar to this
20100404 20:59:31< billynux> essentially boost::asio allows for extremely light-weight implementation of these things...
20100404 20:59:46< billynux> oh, there is no disconnect feature or timeout either
20100404 20:59:52< Crab_> billynux: have you noted the role of wesnoth server in MP ?
20100404 21:00:07< Crab_> billynux: most of the time, during games,it just forwards messages
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20100404 21:00:28< billynux> and thats why you would like this implementation?
20100404 21:00:29< Crab_> e.g. what is received is sent multiple times
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20100404 21:02:34< Crab_> billynux: what's is 'asio server-client' ?
20100404 21:02:56< billynux> its a class that can function as both
20100404 21:03:02< Crab_> from the code I see that it spawns a server and one client, in a single program
20100404 21:03:13< billynux> that's what I meant (essentially) by a Composite pattern
20100404 21:03:13< Crab_> well, that is not going to be used
20100404 21:03:37< Crab_> what is going to be used is 'class that spawns N clients'
20100404 21:03:56< billynux> aha...
20100404 21:04:02< Crab_> so, we have a 'server', 'client', 'client with multiplexing'
20100404 21:04:37< billynux> ok, no problems there either
20100404 21:04:54< Crab_> wesnothd will be the server, wesnoth will be a client, and wesnothgmd will be 'client with multiplexing'
20100404 21:05:01< Crab_> (game master daemon)
20100404 21:05:22< billynux> so... each client will be connected to wesnothd
20100404 21:05:45< billynux> how should this look from the server side?
20100404 21:06:07< billynux> is it a connected client-with-multiplexing? or many connected clients?
20100404 21:06:26< Crab_> it will look as 'many connected clients'
20100404 21:06:45< billynux> ok, so that is easier then, no need to change the proxy
20100404 21:06:51< Crab_> it won't and shouldn't be able to tell if it's different clients or a client-with-multiplexing
20100404 21:07:12< billynux> just add a class ClientMult or whatever... that starts many clients
20100404 21:07:52< Crab_> yes
20100404 21:08:29< billynux> you can have families (types) of clients by inheriting from AsioClient and reimplementing your own handle_received_message (there is a typo there)
20100404 21:08:45< Crab_> yes, seen the typo
20100404 21:09:03< billynux> receive is... one of those words 
20100404 21:09:13< billynux> ... I always end up getting wrong
20100404 21:12:10< Crab_> billynux: have you looked at the code of wesnothd ?
20100404 21:12:19< billynux> I have it here
20100404 21:12:23< billynux> just overview...
20100404 21:12:39< billynux> I'm looking at the network.Xpp files
20100404 21:12:45< Crab_> billynux: 10K lines :) 
20100404 21:13:01< Crab_> billynux: for example, in player_network.cpp you can see what interface the server code uses to send the data
20100404 21:13:11< billynux> ok
20100404 21:14:23< billynux> send_to_*
20100404 21:14:24< Crab_> (it calls the code in network.?pp )
20100404 21:15:52< billynux> I see... basically I would introduce many changes in the network.?pp files
20100404 21:16:01< billynux> but won't change the upper interface
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20100404 21:16:59< Crab_> billynux: yes, if you avoid touching the server code, you'll avoid introducing new bugs in it:)
20100404 21:17:19< billynux> Crab_: you can see my send_to_one implementation in server.cpp, the ClientID and the message, then just find that guy and send it
20100404 21:17:28< billynux> (sry, asio_server.cpp)
20100404 21:18:37< Crab_> yes, I see it
20100404 21:20:32< Crab_> billynux: can your implementation of '(*it)->process' block/slow the entire server if a client is unreachable/behind a slow connection ?
20100404 21:20:48< billynux> 1'
20100404 21:21:03< billynux> no, it's an async_write
20100404 21:21:08< billynux> that is non-blocking code
20100404 21:21:21< billynux> thats exactly what asio is for :)
20100404 21:21:22< Crab_> good
20100404 21:21:49< billynux> it will call the handler once it has finished sending
20100404 21:21:57< Crab_> billynux: how much time do you expect for network.?pp modifications ?
20100404 21:21:59< billynux> I understand that you want timeouts too
20100404 21:22:14< billynux> (that is supported as well)
20100404 21:22:14< Crab_> billynux: yes, we want them configurable.
20100404 21:22:21< billynux> not a lot of time
20100404 21:22:29< billynux> let me see
20100404 21:23:04< billynux> mmm... strike that... some time
20100404 21:23:13< billynux> I expect to be working at least 6hrs/day on this
20100404 21:24:37< billynux> the code should decrease in size...
20100404 21:24:53< billynux> Crab_: somewhere between 3 to 5 weeks...
20100404 21:25:12< billynux> but it's tough to estimate
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20100404 21:25:29< Crab_> billynux: what about proxy support ? have you looked into this ?
20100404 21:25:59< billynux> no
20100404 21:26:00< Crab_> billynux: (also see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerofCode_Orfest#6.1.29_what_proxies_.28authentication_types.29_we_can_support.2C_if_we_code_a_network_stack_using_boost::asio.2C_and_how_hard_it.27ll_be_.3F )
20100404 21:26:39< Crab_> billynux: think this out, and tell if you agree/disagree with ^
20100404 21:26:57< billynux> ok
20100404 21:27:15< Crab_> (adding proxy support will require some gui changes, too, shouldn't be too difficult)
20100404 21:28:25< Ivanovic> @all SoC students: please do *NOT* forget to submit your application
20100404 21:28:26< billynux> yes... If I'm to do that too, I'll probably be bugging the gui guys with some basic questions
20100404 21:28:31< nagbot> Hello!
20100404 21:28:31< nagbot> Everyone who wants to participate in GSoC with Wesnoth:
20100404 21:28:31< nagbot> Register your proposal with Google
20100404 21:28:32< nagbot> You NEED to submit your application till 9th april 2010, 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST)
20100404 21:28:34< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of Summer of Code 2010, no matter how good your proposal in the wiki is or *whatever*
20100404 21:28:37< Ivanovic> you have to submit it into the DB at google!
20100404 21:28:38< nagbot> You have been warned.
20100404 21:28:41< nagbot> The more good patches you submit, the better. 
20100404 21:28:43< nagbot> Join the IRC discussions. 
20100404 21:29:06< Ivanovic> if you have problems with submitting your proposal, please contact me
20100404 21:29:20< Ivanovic> don't wait till the last min with submitting your proposal
20100404 21:29:22< timotei21> Ivanovic, is ok if I send it now? I mean, is not complete, but I will update the wiki page in the time
20100404 21:29:28< billynux> Crab_: Do you want me to add some proxy support to the prototype?
20100404 21:29:32< Ivanovic> timotei21: of course
20100404 21:29:46< Ivanovic> timotei21: in fact it is enough if you post a short summary at google and link your wiki page
20100404 21:29:47< timotei21> ok
20100404 21:29:48< Crab_> billynux: firstly I want to make sure that we agree on the 'what proxies should we directly support'
20100404 21:30:00< timotei21> I'm sending it now, so you can check if it arrived
20100404 21:30:01< Ivanovic> timotei21: it is just really important to have your proposal submitted into the google tracker
20100404 21:30:08< timotei21> yes
20100404 21:30:45< billynux> Ivanovic, where in the google application do I submit the proposal? (maybe dumb question, but I didn't see it there)
20100404 21:31:13< timotei21> here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/list_orgs/google/gsoc2010/
20100404 21:31:13< billynux> Crab_: Yes, let me look into it, I don't see anything wrong with that orfest says
20100404 21:31:13< Ivanovic> billynux: no idea, propably linked somewhere in the faq or the other help docs
20100404 21:31:26< billynux> ok, I'll check it out
20100404 21:31:34< timotei21> after you sign in, there is in the left menu: Submit your Student Proposal.
20100404 21:31:55< timotei21> but be sure to log in first
20100404 21:32:05< billynux> ok, let me check
20100404 21:32:24< timotei21> ok Ivanovic, sent my proposal
20100404 21:32:51< billynux> Aha timotei21 , there it is, thanks!
20100404 21:33:01< timotei21> you're welcome
20100404 21:33:40< Crab_> billynux: ok, how much time do you see for support for basic and digest proxies ?
20100404 21:33:49< Ivanovic> timotei21: yes, it worked
20100404 21:33:52< Crab_> billynux: including the minor UI changes
20100404 21:34:27< billynux> well, its speculation, and I don't have proxy experience to be honest
20100404 21:34:34< timotei21> ok thanks
20100404 21:35:14< billynux> about 2 weeks
20100404 21:35:30< Crab_> billynux: then see http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2617.txt and a code of some implementation for it
20100404 21:35:39< billynux> even if I had trouble with the UI code, somebody will help me out
20100404 21:36:02< Crab_> well, gui2 is very easy to use, and we'll help you if there would be problems there.
20100404 21:36:19< billynux> Yes... I saw the design doc
20100404 21:36:23< billynux> it looks pretty solid
20100404 21:36:42< Crab_> it's pretty easy to use and misuse :)
20100404 21:37:09< billynux> Crab_ and Ivanovic : I expect to develop some kind of literature for the proposal, should this go in the proposal @Google or in the Wiki page? (or both doing copy/paste) ?
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20100404 21:37:27< Crab_> billynux: I'd say 'use the wiki'
20100404 21:37:27< Ivanovic> billynux: put as much as possible into our wiki
20100404 21:37:37< billynux> all right!
20100404 21:37:44< Ivanovic> billynux: since this is freely accessible information that everyone can readup anytime
20100404 21:37:53< Ivanovic> where the proposal at google is only available to "limited persons"
20100404 21:38:16< Ivanovic> though anything you do want to keep private (phone number, email addy, ...) you should only post at google
20100404 21:38:16< billynux> yes, thats right, and looking at orfest's proposal helps me!
20100404 21:38:24< billynux> yes
20100404 21:38:35< billynux> So I can stray a little from that Wiki page then?
20100404 21:38:40< Ivanovic> sure
20100404 21:38:51< billynux> (it *is* a wiki)
20100404 21:38:57< Ivanovic> feel free to create "sub pages", link to other pages and all the likes
20100404 21:39:04< Ivanovic> documentation does always make sense to have!
20100404 21:39:06< billynux> ok
20100404 21:40:19< billynux> Crab_: So... 1. Look into proxies, 2. Improve wiki page filling the questionnaire, 3. Code proxy support for the prototype (?), 4. Check reviewing existing code. Sound good?
20100404 21:41:21< timotei21> Crab_, so, I have some questions regarding the proposal
20100404 21:41:31< pokhbocee> hey guys
20100404 21:41:44< timotei21> hello pokhbocee 
20100404 21:42:11< Crab_> hi, pokhbocee
20100404 21:42:26< Crab_> billynux: 1. review existing code to see if there'll be any issues we haven't spotted yet 2. look into proxies. 3. code support for auth-free proxies and basic proxies, add it to prototype 4. add  client-with-multiplexing example to your prototype
20100404 21:44:31< billynux> ok, step 4 is really easy
20100404 21:44:46< billynux> ok... will do that!
20100404 21:47:01< Crab_> timotei21: yes
20100404 21:49:54< timotei21> well, 1st of all would be 
20100404 21:49:55< timotei21> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Eclipse_Plugin
20100404 21:50:06< timotei21> at the attributes and tags:
20100404 21:50:14< timotei21> Hovering the mouse over a tag brings a floating box with the description of it up. 
20100404 21:50:20< timotei21> where should I take that from?
20100404 21:51:49< Crab_> timotei21: we talked with AI0867 about it, and settled on including [description] parts in schema.cfg 
20100404 21:52:16-!- JustasJ [~4e3d8a6c@gateway/web/freenode/x-ohpiskcrmfrnqagn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 21:53:10< timotei21> so, the descrption is in the [description][/description] tag, right?
20100404 21:53:45< pokhbocee> Crab_: even i added exposed methods to the list at src/scripting/lua.cpp : ~2280, methods cannot be reached from test class
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20100404 21:55:21< JustasJ> Hello?
20100404 21:55:26< pokhbocee> hey
20100404 21:55:28< ctrlfreak> hi
20100404 21:55:43< Crab_> hi, JustasJ
20100404 21:55:46< JustasJ> What's up?
20100404 21:56:12-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20100404 21:57:37< JustasJ> Anybody seen my project wiki?
20100404 21:58:12< Crab_> JustasJ: yes, I've read through it
20100404 21:58:22< Ivanovic> JustasJ: links help!
20100404 21:58:23< Ivanovic> ;)
20100404 21:58:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!]
20100404 21:58:56< Crab_> Ivanovic: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/A_SoC_JustasJ
20100404 21:59:19< JustasJ> I wonder how many people would like such a campaign.
20100404 21:59:30< Crab_> timotei21: yes, it's in there. and it can be translated, too.
20100404 22:00:01< Crab_> pokhbocee: please explain more
20100404 22:00:25< pokhbocee> Crab_: i wrote the method intf_is_enemy
20100404 22:00:34< timotei21> ok
20100404 22:00:44< pokhbocee> and i though i had to match it with the method name
20100404 22:01:01< pokhbocee> so when i call is_enemy, the other method will be callen
20100404 22:01:06< timotei21> I'm out. Crab_ tomorrow I'll ellaborate the proposal
20100404 22:01:10< pokhbocee> so i added it into that list at 2280
20100404 22:01:14< Crab_> timotei21: ok
20100404 22:01:18< timotei21> good night everyone
20100404 22:01:24< pokhbocee> gn
20100404 22:01:32< ctrlfreak> Crab_: would you mind marking my forum account 'ctrl_freak' as a gsoc student: http://forums.wesnoth.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121126
20100404 22:01:50< Crab_> ctrlfreak: will do so now
20100404 22:01:59< ctrlfreak> thank you
20100404 22:02:04< Crab_> glad to help.
20100404 22:02:19< Crab_> ctrlfreak: any questions that I can answer for you?
20100404 22:02:37< Ivanovic> JustasJ: hmmm
20100404 22:02:57< JustasJ> Anybody found something wrong with my wiki page? Maybe I named it wrongly?
20100404 22:03:01< Ivanovic> JustasJ: it is an interesting idea for a campaign (with corresponding content like units)
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20100404 22:03:13< ctrlfreak> Crab_: not at the moment, i'm still checking out the source code but once I get everything built I will get back to you
20100404 22:03:22< JustasJ> Yeah, just wait for the Lithuanian Cavalry :D
20100404 22:03:33< Crab_> ctrlfreak: ok
20100404 22:03:34< Crab_> ctrlfreak: done
20100404 22:03:43< Ivanovic> JustasJ: the problem is that we decided that we wanted to use SoC mainly not for content (wml) development but for getting work for the "infrastructure" done
20100404 22:03:43< ctrlfreak> awesome
20100404 22:04:08< Ivanovic> JustasJ: one of the problems with the main focus on being WML is that listing it later on in a CV does not really work nicely
20100404 22:04:12< JustasJ> Ah... I see. Too bad I am not good at the code yet.
20100404 22:04:49< Ivanovic> sure, with something you do in C++ and in our custom language is of course listable, since this would be "interaction of languages" and the likes
20100404 22:05:03< Ivanovic> writing just in our markup language is really problematic though
20100404 22:05:10< JustasJ> Why?
20100404 22:05:41< Ivanovic> (not to mention that i have no idea regarding the focus of GSOC and how this does work with "historical research" as well as "creating artwork", since those two are not really part of the 'coding' target)
20100404 22:05:56< Ivanovic> JustasJ: because WML is just used at wesnoth, nowhere else
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20100404 22:06:18< Ivanovic> companies tend to look at it more like "okay, some language used for a game... who does need this?!?"
20100404 22:06:46< JustasJ> Well, I do have time to fill my CV before I graduate...
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20100404 22:06:58< ctrlfreak> can anyone tell me why svn says "connection refused" when i try to checkout from svn.gna.org?
20100404 22:07:17< JustasJ> And I am looking at GSOC as a way to learn organisational skills.
20100404 22:07:36< Crab_> ctrlfreak: sadly, svn.gna.org is currently down. you can grab a source tarball from sourceforge.
20100404 22:07:50< ctrlfreak> Crab_: alright, thanks
20100404 22:08:14< Crab_> ctrlfreak: for example, http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.8.tar.bz2/download
20100404 22:08:34< ctrlfreak> k
20100404 22:08:37< Crab_> it's from 3 days ago
20100404 22:09:08< Crab_> of course, you'll have to switch to svn trunk later, but it'll be good enough for today
20100404 22:09:20< ctrlfreak> yeah
20100404 22:09:25< Crab_> ctrlfreak: on what operation system you are ?
20100404 22:09:33< ctrlfreak> OS X
20100404 22:09:55< ctrlfreak> but i'm very comfortable using Linux/BSD if that's preferred
20100404 22:10:28< Crab_> ctrlfreak: ok, good. then, if there are any problems with compilation, try asking crimson_penguin about it.
20100404 22:10:49< ctrlfreak> Crab_: alright, will do.
20100404 22:12:52< ctrlfreak> should I wait until gna is back up before attempting to submit any patches?
20100404 22:13:39< Crab_> ctrlfreak: I think that you should submit it anyway (just note in the description that the patch is against 1.8, because gna is down).
20100404 22:14:05< ctrlfreak> alright
20100404 22:14:14< Crab_> ctrlfreak: but 1) we'll be able to see how you work 2) it should be quite easy to change the patch to apply to trunk
20100404 22:14:44< Crab_> ctrlfreak: just ask before starting work on a particular thing, just in case
20100404 22:14:57< Crab_> because some things were already committed 1.9
20100404 22:15:09< ctrlfreak> i see
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20100404 22:15:49< Ivanovic> JustasJ: talked with the people in #gsoc about this, if it is a GSoC project or not
20100404 22:15:58< Ivanovic> JustasJ: you might be interested in reading the logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/
20100404 22:16:14< JustasJ> Thank you.
20100404 22:17:08< JustasJ> But where should I look first?
20100404 22:17:21< Ivanovic> JustasJ: looks like the chat is not posted "live"
20100404 22:17:39< Ivanovic> will paste you the most relevant parts in a query, though i will omit huge parts
20100404 22:17:40< pokhbocee> Crab_: i have added the method to this list: http://pastebin.com/g4GA4Xsi
20100404 22:17:50< pokhbocee> but still i get nil error
20100404 22:18:02< Crab_> pokhbocee: can you post a patch ?
20100404 22:18:10< Crab_> pokhbocee: I'll try it out, and see what is going on.
20100404 22:18:43< Crab_> svn diff should be local
20100404 22:19:27< pokhbocee> ok
20100404 22:20:19< Ivanovic> JustasJ: got the paste?
20100404 22:20:49< JustasJ> Where do I get it?
20100404 22:20:50< Ivanovic> JustasJ: just pasted the part between carols (the one responsible at google for gsoc 2010) and me
20100404 22:20:55< Ivanovic> i posted it in a /query with you
20100404 22:21:16< Ivanovic> so a tab or something like this should have opened for you where you got my messages
20100404 22:21:42< JustasJ> received it.
20100404 22:22:55-!- billynux [~billy@239-226-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100404 22:23:02< JustasJ> And read it.
20100404 22:23:07< JustasJ> So I'd have to improve more code...
20100404 22:24:02< Ivanovic> JustasJ: in general it is about coding
20100404 22:24:10< Ivanovic> and yeah, it would have to be more coding than content
20100404 22:24:35< JustasJ> If I made the game a bit different, would that work?
20100404 22:24:47< JustasJ> e.g. Player having no leader in some scenarios?
20100404 22:25:25< Crab_> JustasJ: 'coding' means things like 'writing C++ modifications to the game engine'
20100404 22:25:47< Ivanovic> currently your proposal could easily be "long story screens explaining the history" - "battle without any chat or events" - "more story screens" - "next battle without events and the likes"
20100404 22:26:05< Ivanovic> this obviously does not involve too much "coding" but more or less "content only"
20100404 22:26:10< JustasJ> But it would have events...
20100404 22:26:28< Ivanovic> coding in those regards would be stuff like events, making use of lua scripts, maybe doing some special AI stuff, ...
20100404 22:26:53< JustasJ> I can think of it.
20100404 22:27:08< Crab_> that's good
20100404 22:28:11< JustasJ> The escape of grand duke vytautas would be quite an eventful scenario.
20100404 22:28:15< Ivanovic> i hope that you see what one of the real problems is here with the "i want to create a campaign" proposal
20100404 22:28:50< JustasJ> So how do I state it to reveal more about the code I am planning to implement?
20100404 22:29:23< Crab_> JustasJ: make things that can be used by other scenario writers, not only specific to your planned campaign
20100404 22:29:45< JustasJ> hmm... Well, first, those would be units.
20100404 22:30:13< Crab_> JustasJ: well, the units are somewhat campaign-specific..
20100404 22:30:26< Ivanovic> units are content
20100404 22:30:26< JustasJ> next, a code which allowed you to play without having a leader in the game.
20100404 22:30:38< Crab_> JustasJ: it can already be done, isn't it?
20100404 22:30:47< JustasJ> I am not sure.
20100404 22:30:54< Ivanovic> i am sure that it can be done
20100404 22:30:56< JustasJ> What about a different way of recruitment?
20100404 22:31:06< Crab_> JustasJ: how exactly different?
20100404 22:31:39< JustasJ> Units would spawn from the villages instead of being recruited at the castles.
20100404 22:31:43< Crab_> JustasJ: but yes, that's steps in 'the right direction'
20100404 22:31:48< pokhbocee> Crab_: i have submitted the patch
20100404 22:32:32< Crab_> JustasJ: but it's a small thing - I'm sure that, say, zookeeper can implement it in several minutes.
20100404 22:32:43< JustasJ> And you could place the units you recall from some of the last scenarios directly on the map, provided there are some other units of yours next to it.
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20100404 22:33:36< Crab_> JustasJ: that, too, can already be done by scenario editor using currently available tools, without issues.
20100404 22:33:42< shadowmaster> anyone in the audience would be willing to help me with some python homework?
20100404 22:33:45< JustasJ> well, the stuff about recruiting could be overwent by simple "add unit" scripts.
20100404 22:33:59< JustasJ> Bad Justas...
20100404 22:34:42< shadowmaster> I have this method, which supposedly gets the correct absolute path to the executable binary (script) on a system which has a working and reliable procfs mounted on /proc. Problem is, this won't work on Windows for obvious reasons.
20100404 22:34:47< shadowmaster> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/U4xVUA6v
20100404 22:34:57< shadowmaster> is there a more direct method which I'm missing?
20100404 22:35:17-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100404 22:35:39< loonycyborg> There are python bindings for winapi :P
20100404 22:36:00< shadowmaster> a more direct method than importing Win32 crap?
20100404 22:36:20< Crab_> JustasJ: well, you can see that many good things can currently be done in WML. 
20100404 22:36:35< Crab_> JustasJ: but, of course, there are things there that can be improved
20100404 22:36:44< shadowmaster> be nice with me, I've just started learning Python.
20100404 22:36:45< JustasJ> So I need a completely new or somehow improved thing?
20100404 22:37:08< JustasJ> Hm... Give me a night to think of one.
20100404 22:37:13< Crab_> JustasJ: yes, think about  'making good things that were not previously possible, possible'
20100404 22:37:39< JustasJ> Maybe a long range bombardment?
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20100404 22:38:02< JustasJ> Not possible yet, if I remember correctly.
20100404 22:39:12< JustasJ> Right?
20100404 22:39:18< JustasJ> I have to go soon.
20100404 22:39:35< Crab_> JustasJ:  there's ideas forum, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=12
20100404 22:39:51< Crab_> JustasJ: there are various things, discussed there, good or not, wanted or not
20100404 22:40:02< Crab_> JustasJ: be sure to read http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1158
20100404 22:40:25< JustasJ> Ok. I gotta go now. Bye all and thank you.
20100404 22:41:41< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Finding out the location of binary is hard problem if you want to be cross-platform. No idea whether python has a function for that.
20100404 22:43:37< loonycyborg> http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.executable :P
20100404 22:44:15< JustasJ> One more think: Mounted units once they die first just dismount.
20100404 22:44:27-!- JustasJ [~4e3d8a6c@gateway/web/freenode/x-ohpiskcrmfrnqagn] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100404 22:44:38< Crab_> JustasJ:  this, too, can be already done in WML
20100404 22:44:41< shadowmaster> FPI!
20100404 22:44:50< shadowmaster> kill him!
20100404 22:45:02< Crab_> shadowmaster: yes, I've just shown him the link to FPI
20100404 22:45:22< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: for the Python interpreter
20100404 22:45:33< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: I need something for the actual script
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20100404 22:46:57< Crab_> shadowmaster: it's not always possible (think of piping to interpreter from stdin). you can try to abuse ps.exe
20100404 22:47:18< shadowmaster> hopefully noone will try to do such a ridiculous thing with this script
20100404 22:47:27< shadowmaster> :P
20100404 22:47:44< shadowmaster> since it's intended to be used by regular Joes anyway
20100404 22:47:46< Crab_> or tasklist.exe, which is installed by default
20100404 22:48:49< loonycyborg> http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.argv
20100404 22:49:16< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: trust me, I know about accessing argv.
20100404 22:49:22< shadowmaster> and the pitfalls of abusing argv[0]
20100404 22:49:49< loonycyborg> In this case it's python that determines what will be in argv[0]
20100404 22:49:55-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 22:49:58< norbert_> hi all
20100404 22:50:03< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: no?
20100404 22:50:05< loonycyborg> So there will be *different* pitfalls :P
20100404 22:50:07< shadowmaster> "argv[0] is the script name (it is operating system dependent whether this is a full pathname or not)."
20100404 22:50:13< norbert_> I'm kind of wondering if you could make WML for 1.10 or 2.0 compatible with 1.8
20100404 22:50:16< shadowmaster> emphasis on "operating system"
20100404 22:50:21< norbert_> or at least backwards compatible
20100404 22:50:49< norbert_> so many scenarios and campaigns still need to be ported and probably never will
20100404 22:51:02< norbert_> and people just copy 1.6 files to 1.8 and wonder why their maps give WML errors half way
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20100404 22:53:25< shadowmaster> norbert_: there is wmllint
20100404 22:53:37< shadowmaster> the official policy is "use wmllint, if it doesn't work, bug esr", AFAIK
20100404 22:53:58< shadowmaster> (a corolary is "if wmllint doesn't work in platform X, well...(???)")
20100404 22:54:08< norbert_> players don't know about wmllint, and people who uploaded nice addons for 1.6 may not port them - ever
20100404 22:55:02< norbert_> I created 5 scenarios for 1.6 - simple stuff, nothings special - and decided to port 1 of them to 1.8; all I will port too
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20100404 22:56:07< norbert_> game keeps crashing, unfortunately
20100404 22:56:13< norbert_> wesnoth: gui/widgets/scrollbar_container.cpp:625: bool gui2::tscrollbar_container::content_resize_height(int): Assertion `new_height > 0' failed.
20100404 22:56:17< norbert_> things like that
20100404 22:56:22< esr> norbert_: I'm afraid iour policy on this sort of thing is cruel and unforgiving.  wmllint exists - it's the responsibility of campaign creators to apply it.  We;ve done our end.
20100404 22:56:34< shadowmaster> norbert_: that kind of stuff falls under the "ENGINE BUG" category
20100404 22:56:51< esr> Engine bugs, on the other hand...
20100404 22:56:54< shadowmaster> the game shouldn't throw up even if it's receiving invalid WML
20100404 22:57:27< shadowmaster> but since we can't see the WML, who knows what the exact problem is and how to fix it.
20100404 22:57:39< norbert_> that happens when I'm in the lobby
20100404 22:57:49< Ivanovic> mordante posted that he had a fix for this already
20100404 22:57:59< norbert_> ok
20100404 22:58:00< shadowmaster> (weren't we talking about WML?) :)
20100404 22:58:04< Ivanovic> the problem is that gna is currently having problems and thus noone can commit/checkout things
20100404 22:58:18< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: no, a crash in the lobby that happens with "not enough games"
20100404 22:58:18< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: about that, what's the status? any news?
20100404 22:58:31< Ivanovic> gna.org?
20100404 22:58:33< shadowmaster> yes
20100404 22:58:35< Ivanovic> still down, no news at all
20100404 22:59:08< norbert_> maybe the project could use someone who oversees all the add-on 'happenings'
20100404 22:59:30< norbert_> like, hypothetically, what if nobody will port the Orocia addons
20100404 23:00:12< shadowmaster> someone at #gna suggested that it's a DNS problem, early
20100404 23:00:15< shadowmaster> *earlier
20100404 23:00:19< norbert_> maybe there could be a thread where someone could keep an overview of what well known addons still need to be ported, where to contact the authors, and so on
20100404 23:00:36< silene> norbert_: if nobody ports an addon, it may just mean that the addon was not worth the port, and it is not that bad if it gets forgotten
20100404 23:00:39< shadowmaster> in fact, http://78.40.125.81/ works but I have no idea if this is the correct web host or some kind of backup server
20100404 23:00:52< norbert_> silene: maybe, but maybe not
20100404 23:01:23< norbert_> maybe it means the original author died, the users want it but don't have the skills, and 'we' don't know it's out there and needs to be ported
20100404 23:01:33< silene> shadowmaster: the main website works for me, it's just the svn server that is off the grid
20100404 23:01:44< shadowmaster> norbert_: wesnoth-umc-dev is there to solve half of the problem
20100404 23:02:12< shadowmaster> as long as authors commit regularly, it's safe to assume that the latest "abandoned" version is really the latest version
20100404 23:02:54< norbert_> I've been working on a new wesnoth website the last 2 months
20100404 23:02:59< norbert_> it will go on-line end of this month
20100404 23:03:06< norbert_> and it's all about the addons
20100404 23:03:13< shadowmaster> and what's it about and what has to do with this?
20100404 23:03:15< shadowmaster> (details, details)
20100404 23:03:26-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20100404 23:03:34< norbert_> it has all 450+ scenarios and campaigns in a database
20100404 23:03:46< norbert_> and allows visitors to login and vote and comment on the addons
20100404 23:04:16< norbert_> also full screen screenshots of the addons
20100404 23:04:26< norbert_> some up to 32mb, even at 80% jpeg
20100404 23:05:07< norbert_> difficulty, enjoyment, replayability is what people can vote on
20100404 23:05:32< norbert_> and low/normal/high; votes are shown as 1-3 stars, including half stars
20100404 23:05:32< shadowmaster> 32 mb sounds excessive, honestly.
20100404 23:05:49< norbert_> 32mb is the largest screenshot of a 200x200 map
20100404 23:05:50< shadowmaster> screenshots up to 1024x768 couldn't take that much space
20100404 23:06:00< shadowmaster> uh...maps.
20100404 23:06:05< norbert_> I have the space, so I use it... :)
20100404 23:06:12< shadowmaster> yeah, but I don't have the bandwidth.
20100404 23:06:18< norbert_> I do
20100404 23:06:26< norbert_> it'll be at www.wsrsw.org
20100404 23:06:27< shadowmaster> it's take me 1 hour at the very least to download that
20100404 23:06:29< shadowmaster> *itd
20100404 23:06:34< shadowmaster> gaa, can't type today
20100404 23:06:34< norbert_> will register the domain in about 1-2 weeks
20100404 23:06:51< norbert_> ok, but the preview is 200x200 pixels
20100404 23:07:01< norbert_> so you should be safe; also, that 32mb file is an exception
20100404 23:07:40< norbert_> only 7 of them are >10mb
20100404 23:09:08< norbert_> still need to figure out the author(s) of all the MP maps that come with the default install, need svn for that, but as soon as those are in the database, everything is finished
20100404 23:09:24< norbert_> will of course need to keep updating everything and add more features, but that'll work out
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20100404 23:10:20< norbert_> also allows users to favorite maps
20100404 23:10:37< gabba> hi
20100404 23:10:42< norbert_> and hide or unhide their favorites, and so on
20100404 23:10:49< pokhbocee> Crab_: did you take a look at the patch
20100404 23:11:55< Crab_> pokhbocee: sorry, will do so now
20100404 23:12:37< Crab_> pokhbocee: no need for side_1 < 0 || side_2 < 0 checks
20100404 23:12:41< shadowmaster> norbert_: and if some train runs you over or you need to travel to the middle of the Pacific Ocean to an Internetless location, the site will grow outdated and useless in a few months?
20100404 23:12:53< shadowmaster> i.e. who will keep the database up to date?
20100404 23:14:01< norbert_> it has a section for mods; with buttons "Authors", "Scenarios", "Bans" and "Data" that are accessable by users with specific nicks
20100404 23:14:13< norbert_> currently it checks if nick = 'norbert', but others can be added
20100404 23:14:44< Crab_> pokhbocee: compiling..
20100404 23:16:01< norbert_> oh, also, it has a search.php (obviously)
20100404 23:16:21< shadowmaster> it could be ASP for all I care as a client
20100404 23:16:30< norbert_> where visitors, even without logging in, can search on Type, Map Size, # Players, File Size, By Author, # Votes, and Order By
20100404 23:17:02< norbert_> Order By allows sorting in 12 ways, all variations with # Favorited, Enjoyment, Difficulty and Replayability
20100404 23:17:30< Crab_> pokhbocee: also, your patch uses  "td::vector<team>" instead of "std::vector<team>"
20100404 23:18:27< Crab_> norbert_: would the source code of the website be open ?
20100404 23:18:27< pokhbocee> Crab_: i thought we need to check boundaries. btw sides always go from 1 to n right?  sequentially?
20100404 23:18:40< pokhbocee> Crab_: damn copy paste is huge problem in vim
20100404 23:18:48< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, size_t is unsigned, thus always >=0
20100404 23:19:17< shadowmaster> therefore, resembles a smiley
20100404 23:19:18< Crab_> pokhbocee: np, those are easy to fix
20100404 23:20:05< norbert_> Crab_: yes, always; I GPL my code, like apoplexy http://leveleditor.wordpress.com/
20100404 23:21:48< Crab_> norbert_: would your site include information about singleplayer, too ?
20100404 23:22:07< norbert_> it has all SP and MP scenarios and campaigns, already in the database
20100404 23:22:13< norbert_> era's and such are not included
20100404 23:23:09< norbert_> I didn't really feel like including era's and resources
20100404 23:23:41< norbert_> but theoretically those could be added at some point
20100404 23:24:09< Crab_> norbert_:  that's good. as you know, wesnoth, in single-player, collects statistics information about player's progress. if you're interested, we might want to try to routinely push the (anonymized) data we get from stats uploader, to you website.
20100404 23:24:43< norbert_> sounds interesting
20100404 23:24:49< norbert_> what kind of information is being collected?
20100404 23:26:57< Crab_> norbert_: basically, we can collect whatever game-relateed we want, but from SP only, and keeping anonymity. currently: version, platform, language, statistics info about scenarios played
20100404 23:27:14< Crab_> s/game-relateed/game-related info
20100404 23:27:36< norbert_> myeah, I could probably use that information to include some additional stats on the addon pages
20100404 23:29:14< Crab_> norbert_: 'SP only' restriction is because of dev preference, but you can try to talk with the MP devs about if they allow getting some aggregate info, like the number of times the addon was played, the number of avg turns till victory, etc - no personalized info, just aggregates.
20100404 23:29:36< Crab_> norbert_: IMO, best to do this after your site is running
20100404 23:29:51< norbert_> yes, I agree; I'll wait with all those things until after launch
20100404 23:30:39< Crab_> norbert_: ping me afterwards, then. I'll help with the coding of the 'data transfer' if we figure out what to aggregate and push to you.
20100404 23:31:47< norbert_> I'll create a thread on the forum about the website right after it's live
20100404 23:32:07< norbert_> again, that'll be about the end of this month
20100404 23:32:16< Crab_> good
20100404 23:32:37< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, compiled
20100404 23:33:26< norbert_> anyways, must get some sleep; bye
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20100404 23:36:14< gabba> Crab_: I know you take notice of things faster than the Eye of Sauron, but anyways: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba#Calendar
20100404 23:37:22< Crab_> gabba: yes, those are quite old changes :)
20100404 23:37:50< Crab_> gabba: I'll comment in a few mins, testing a patch atm
20100404 23:37:52< gabba> Crab_: old? lol
20100404 23:38:06< Crab_> gabba: yes, Apr5 over here, and those are from Apr 3 :)
20100404 23:38:17< gabba> Crab_: indeed indeed
20100404 23:39:53< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, the functions work correctly
20100404 23:41:35< pokhbocee> you call it by wesnoth.is_enemy(side_1,side 2) right??
20100404 23:41:41< Crab_> pokhbocee:  lua wesnoth.message(tostring(wesnoth.get_no_sides()))
20100404 23:41:59< Crab_> or,  lua wesnoth.message(tostring(wesnoth.is_enemy(1,4)))
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20100404 23:43:41< pokhbocee> why i couldnt make it work
20100404 23:43:53< pokhbocee> do i need to add lua at the beginning?
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20100404 23:44:09< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, I test from in-game console
20100404 23:44:16< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, I need to use the lua command
20100404 23:44:33< pokhbocee> in-game console??
20100404 23:44:33< Crab_> pokhbocee: and, I need to wrap it in wesnoth.message to get it to return the output in a message
20100404 23:44:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, the one accessible by :
20100404 23:45:00< Crab_> pokhbocee: maybe debug mode is needed, too.
20100404 23:45:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, I launch ./wesnoth -d
20100404 23:45:13< Crab_> pokhbocee: then I launch HttT 1
20100404 23:45:32< Crab_> pokhbocee: then, I type :lua wesnoth.message(tostring(wesnoth.get_no_sides()))
20100404 23:45:44< Crab_> pokhbocee: ":" pops up a in-game console
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20100404 23:46:13< Crab_> pokhbocee: and the rest is the command to be executed
20100404 23:46:25< pokhbocee> i run it with the test scenario
20100404 23:46:26< Crab_> pokhbocee: I use the 'lua' command to pass the rest of the string to the lua interpreter
20100404 23:46:48< Crab_> pokhbocee: shouldn't matter 
20100404 23:48:14< pokhbocee> i tried ingame console too but i get errors
20100404 23:48:38< pokhbocee> it says nil value
20100404 23:48:43< pokhbocee> for both functions
20100404 23:48:59< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, it worked for me ;)
20100404 23:49:13< pokhbocee> this is weird
20100404 23:49:18< pokhbocee> what do i make wrong??
20100404 23:50:16< pokhbocee> to get such an error
20100404 23:50:17< Crab_> pokhbocee: try  "lua wesnoth.message(tostring(wesnoth.get_no_sides()))" command from in-game console. it'll say 'nil value'?
20100404 23:50:25< pokhbocee> yes
20100404 23:50:30< pokhbocee> same
20100404 23:50:49< Crab_> pokhbocee: are you sure that you're only running with the changes you sent me in the patch ?
20100404 23:51:06< Crab_> pokhbocee: maybe your compiled version somehow differs from what you had now..
20100404 23:51:11< pokhbocee> let me check it again
20100404 23:52:37< Crab_> pokhbocee: and see http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/spAXtRvp
20100404 23:53:04< Crab_> pokhbocee: gna.org is having problems atm, but there are the comments about your patch, which you need to fix
20100404 23:53:58< Crab_> pokhbocee: after that, I the patch will be ready for commit, and you'll be able to reference this fact from the wiki page, the fact that you've added a new good thing to wesnoth.
20100404 23:54:15< Crab_> gabba: ok, the calendar...
20100404 23:54:22< gabba> yes
20100404 23:54:40-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.29.4.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 23:55:27< Crab_> I think that the proposed split is good, since a local whiteboard is a separate deliverable thing by itself.
20100404 23:55:57< Crab_> to make it look pretty, you will need some support from wesnoth's artists, yes ?
20100404 23:56:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 23:57:43< Crab_> gabba: please don't forget to submit your proposal to google, as well.
20100404 23:58:13< Crab_> gabba: you have around 4 days to do so, till 9th, it's better to do it now.
20100404 23:58:29< gabba> Crab_: yes, the split was boucman's idea, and it organizes the work neatly
20100404 23:58:50< gabba> Crab_: artists: as I said, I plan to recruit some once the interface has stabilized
20100404 23:59:05< Crab_> gabba: in google's form, you can say 'hi, all info is in the wiki', and state just a basic project description, to avoid duplicating things.
20100404 23:59:15< gabba> Crab_: google: good idea
20100404 23:59:55-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100404 23:59:56< gabba> Crab_: ^oh, excellent -- would the 4-lines summary work as a description for google? Or I need to write a slightly bigger one?
--- Log closed Mon Apr 05 00:00:22 2010