--- Log opened Mon Apr 12 00:00:47 2010
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20100412 00:56:27< norbert_> my website (where people can vote on addons) will be up sooner than I expected; will probably announce it on the forum within days; anything I should make sure to (not) mention or do? (I think I've planned it nicely, but who knows.)
20100412 00:56:46< shadowmaster> argh, allefant left.
20100412 00:56:50< Crab_> hi, norbert_
20100412 00:57:09< Crab_> norbert_: it's good to hear that.
20100412 00:58:15< Crab_> norbert_: well, I haven't got any specific concerns :) the others might, of course. It's best to ask Ivanovic, when he's around.
20100412 00:58:56< norbert_> okay; he appears to be away currently, but I will
20100412 00:59:34< Crab_> norbert_: good :)
20100412 01:00:23< Crab_> norbert_: and somewhen we'll have to talk if there's some aggregate stats information from wesnoth's SP that could be displayed on your site.
20100412 01:01:03< norbert_> yes, we should do that, in time
20100412 01:01:35< norbert_> would be nice, but first I want to see if nothing that is already there breaks :)
20100412 01:01:47< Crab_> norbert_: of course :)
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20100412 01:30:41< kahowell> Ivanovic: Hi, you were looking for me?
20100412 01:31:07< Crab_> kahowell: hi. most likely Ivanovic is not online at the moment
20100412 01:31:20< Crab_> kahowell: have you seen the comments in the google application ?
20100412 01:32:19< kahowell> Crab_: yes, I have. I have been working on the application as I have time.
20100412 01:32:43< Crab_> that's good. you should try to catch mordante here on IRC, he's often online during the 'evening in europe'
20100412 01:33:10< Crab_> you can leave him messages in the log, as he usually reads the logs.
20100412 01:33:26< kahowell> Okay.
20100412 01:33:36< Crab_> wesbot: seen mordante
20100412 01:33:36< wesbot> Crab_: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 3h 39m ago.  3h 39m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20100412 01:35:24< kahowell> I would like to start working on a patch to show some sample code, but don't have a lot of time at the moment...
20100412 01:35:44< Crab_> kahowell: and when you'd have time ?
20100412 01:35:56< kahowell> Actually, the week doesn't look too bad.
20100412 01:36:17< Crab_> kahowell: well, I think that 'during this week' is not too late.
20100412 01:36:40< kahowell> :)
20100412 01:37:04< Crab_> but actively working is very important.
20100412 01:38:39< kahowell> Yeah... this semester's been pretty busy for me, but the summer should be much better as far as time goes.
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20100412 01:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 87 bugs, 264 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100412 02:26:42< AI0867> Soliton: more likely that he crashes/kills his client, meaning the preferences don't get saved
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20100412 03:10:38< endercoaster> Hello
20100412 03:11:05< Crab_> hi, endercoaster
20100412 03:14:18< Crab_> endercoaster: you've read the comments on google application page ?
20100412 03:16:33< endercoaster> Crab_: Not yet.
20100412 03:17:42< Espreon> https://gna.org/bugs/?15849
20100412 03:18:48< endercoaster> Crab_: Alright, I'll take care of that when I have the chance, but I'm kinda bogged down with school work at the moment.
20100412 03:19:31< Crab_> endercoaster: ok. You should improve during this week if you want to increase your chances to be accepted for GSoC.
20100412 03:19:48< Upthorn> oh Crab_
20100412 03:19:58< Crab_> hi, Upthorn
20100412 03:20:24< AI0867> Soliton: could you explain to me the idea behind line 162 in network.cpp?
20100412 03:20:25< AI0867>     // Reset last_ping if we didn't check for the last 10s.
20100412 03:20:26< AI0867>     if (last_ping_check + 10 <= now) last_ping = now;
20100412 03:20:40< Upthorn> I am just about to edit my wiki page to include a link to http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75343/gsoc10/Upthorn_wesnoth_persistence_prototype.patch
20100412 03:20:43< AI0867> "if we haven't checked in 10 seconds, then we assume the network is up"?
20100412 03:20:57< Crab_> Upthorn: this is a Good Thing :)
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20100412 03:22:10< Upthorn> and since you are present, I thought it might be worth linking here directly.
20100412 03:22:23< Crab_> yes, that's good :)
20100412 03:24:55< pokhbocee> good nite everybody
20100412 03:25:01< Crab_> pokhbocee: night
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20100412 03:25:21< lfernando> does anybody know which part of the source handles the preferences file?
20100412 03:25:25< Crab_> Upthorn: I suggest enforcing some sane value for name_space, to make sure no funny things like directory traversal with "../../.." work
20100412 03:27:01< lfernando> the one at (wesnoth user directory)/preferences
20100412 03:27:54< Crab_> lfernando: fgrep -Rn get_prefs_file ./ does the trick
20100412 03:28:17< Crab_> it's  ./preferences.cpp
20100412 03:29:04< lfernando> ok, ty Crab_
20100412 03:36:01< Crab_> Upthorn: also, both reading, saving, and clearing a global variable involve 'find the file and create it if necessary (for 'set')) - this can be extracted into a separate helper function like  "void get_persistence_data(const std::string &name_space, bool create_if_missing, config &persistence_data)"
20100412 03:37:06< Upthorn> Yeah, those would both be good ideas.
20100412 03:37:06< Crab_> Upthorn: also, you need to include buildsystem modifications, as well.
20100412 03:37:59< Upthorn> oh right. I forgot to include the part where I added those to the vc9 project
20100412 03:38:19< Crab_> no, vc9 is not important, scons, cmake, and autotools are.
20100412 03:38:42< Upthorn> I did not make any buildsystem modifications to those.
20100412 03:39:03< Upthorn> err, any modifications to those buildsystems
20100412 03:39:12< Crab_> well, I use scons, Mordante, afair, uses cmake. to check your code, we need to compile.
20100412 03:39:39< Upthorn> I understand.
20100412 03:40:19< Crab_> so, by adding 1 line into each of src/CMakeLists.txt src/SConscript and /src/Makefile.am , you'll make it easier for us to test your changes.
20100412 03:41:37< Crab_> also, it'll be a good idea to submit this on patches.wesnoth.org
20100412 03:41:46< Crab_> you know, if it's good, we might actually commit this.
20100412 03:41:57< Crab_> (after various issues are fixed)
20100412 03:42:48< Upthorn> I was thinking that if it was good, I would commit it, during summer of code, after earning svn commit rights.
20100412 03:42:59< Crab_> (e.g., we won't commit changes to tutorial, but the prototypes of set_ and get_ and clear_ are to be done anyway)
20100412 03:43:21< Crab_> well, to earn commit access, you need your patches to be committed :)
20100412 03:43:37< Crab_> so, this one will count, too.
20100412 03:44:02< Upthorn> Oh. That's why everyone reminded me that the allied healing changes might not be committed.
20100412 03:44:21< Crab_> Upthorn: well, no
20100412 03:44:42< Crab_> Upthorn: it's entirely possible for uncommitted patch to count, too
20100412 03:44:57< Upthorn> Ok. Good.
20100412 03:45:11< Crab_> the main point is the quality of the patch
20100412 03:45:38< Crab_> and those little things like changelog entry and entry about you in 'misc.contributors' section of data/core/about.cfg
20100412 03:45:50< Crab_> they need to be present in the patch, too.
20100412 03:47:17< Crab_> Upthorn: so, I suggest making the patch cleaner, avoiding duplicated code, and then posting it to patches.wesnoth.org, with the instructions about how-to-test (e.g., what directories/files/etc to create)
20100412 03:49:05< Crab_> Upthorn: also note stuff like create_directory_if_missing in src/filesystem.cpp
20100412 03:49:38< Upthorn> Crab_: ah, yes, that would be good.
20100412 03:50:58< Upthorn> I didn't look through filesystem to the same extent as everything else.
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20100412 03:51:38< Crab_> no problems with that :) I just want the new code to be as good as possible
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20100412 04:14:37< Greywhind|AFK> wow, i'm impressed with the quantity of comments on my application
20100412 04:14:43-!- Greywhind|AFK is now known as Greywhind
20100412 04:16:36< Crab_> Greywhind: ok, thanks for the reply in there. in general, it's actually better to chat and discuss
20100412 04:17:28< Greywhind> yeah, i understand
20100412 04:17:41< Crab_> your proposed changes will affect many things for many players all around the world - so, it's better to chat in advance 
20100412 04:17:58< Greywhind> makes sense
20100412 04:18:39< Crab_> especially with MP developers like noy and happygrue
20100412 04:18:42< Greywhind> it would be great to work on a project with so many users - even Thousand Parsec doesn't have nearly as many active players as Wesnoth, i'm pretty sure
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20100412 04:19:57< Greywhind> do you know what times noy and happygrue usually are around?
20100412 04:20:07< noy> uh, all the time?
20100412 04:20:50< Greywhind> ah. hello, then :)
20100412 04:21:19< noy> first off #4960 isn't a bug
20100412 04:21:26< noy> I don't think
20100412 04:21:38< Greywhind> oh, i just copy/pasted the heading, without thinking
20100412 04:21:51< Greywhind> it's technically a feature request, you're correct
20100412 04:22:41< Crab_> well, we sometimes refer to feature requests as bugs, in commit messages, to make GNA link to the comments in the FR :)
20100412 04:23:15< noy> first thing on your proposal, use leader might be a wml event
20100412 04:23:38< noy> err maybe an option in WML, but not as part of the GUI
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20100412 04:24:10< Greywhind> noy: why would you suggest that? too complicated for the GUI?
20100412 04:24:34< noy> No, its a gameplay decision for regular mp game
20100412 04:24:35< noy> games
20100412 04:24:54< Upthorn> oh I forgot to make a changelog entry for the other patch. I should do that, too.
20100412 04:24:57< noy> that leaders from different factions don't share abilities (beyond heal and illuminate)
20100412 04:25:17< Greywhind> i see. so it's not something the player should usually be able to change.
20100412 04:25:20< noy> no
20100412 04:25:31< Greywhind> ok. i'll make a note of that.
20100412 04:25:31< Crab_> Upthorn: :)
20100412 04:25:45< noy> like Im happy to see it as a WML feature
20100412 04:26:01< noy> but not as part of the "default set"
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20100412 04:26:23< noy> I'm a slight bit dubious about the text treaties
20100412 04:26:53< Greywhind> yeah, it's more of a tentative feature proposal than something i'm dead set on
20100412 04:27:04< noy> I'd suggest you drop it for now
20100412 04:27:22< noy> because the UI aspects of this proposals are significant
20100412 04:27:24< Greywhind> alright
20100412 04:27:35< Greywhind> yeah, i've been thinking that the UI changes will take a lot of time
20100412 04:27:38< noy> and integrating it into the game will probably prove to be enough of a challenge
20100412 04:27:45< noy> (the UI challenges)
20100412 04:28:52< noy> "village peace" is a difficult proposition
20100412 04:29:18< noy> because the default behavior right now is for allies to automatically take villages
20100412 04:30:46< Greywhind> is there a single point in the code where that could be changed, or is it distributed in several places?
20100412 04:31:41< Crab_> Greywhind: several
20100412 04:31:57< Crab_> Greywhind: at least the ai is prohibited from even trying to take allied villages because of that
20100412 04:32:08< Greywhind> i see
20100412 04:32:19< Crab_> Greywhind: and the unit spawning code autochanges village ownership
20100412 04:32:33< Crab_> Greywhind: but, in general, that's easy to change/fix.
20100412 04:32:59< Greywhind> yeah, it seems like i could change it as long as I either found all the necessary places or someone pointed me in the right direction
20100412 04:33:21< Greywhind> i'd also want to add a tooltip when such things were prevented, which might be a bit more difficult
20100412 04:35:49< Upthorn> Oh, this might be a good time to mention that there's one thing that I really hope for out of the new alliance system
20100412 04:36:40< Upthorn> if side1 is sharing vision with side2, and receiving shared vision from side3
20100412 04:37:03< Upthorn> side2 should not recieve the fog information from side3.
20100412 04:37:46< Upthorn> nor should side2 be able to know that side1 is receiving shared vision from side3
20100412 04:38:21< Greywhind> hm... good point
20100412 04:38:39< Greywhind> could be somewhat difficult to do, however, depending on how the code works
20100412 04:38:51< Greywhind> i haven't been able to look at the fog code very closely yet
20100412 04:39:06< Upthorn> If this is done, it can allow for false alliances one side leads another into an ambush, which I see as adding a great deal of depth to diplomacy
20100412 04:39:19< Greywhind> yeah, i can definitely see the advantages
20100412 04:40:10< noy> I'm not too sure if I'm comfortable to go that far
20100412 04:42:25< Crab_> that's hard to do, engine-wise, and complicates some WML. but, technically, it can be done.
20100412 04:42:43< noy> I think this raises an issue about your proposal, which is how will the information be shared. 
20100412 04:43:55< noy> Oh, what Upthorn is suggesting is fine.
20100412 04:44:03< Greywhind> true. what sort of framework is used to share data about other sides, currently?
20100412 04:44:05< noy> That I think is the rule for most games
20100412 04:44:29< noy> (starcraft uses the same rules)
20100412 04:45:06< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42114 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add the minimum ping interval to the ping timeout. Define this interval as a constant in network.hpp
20100412 04:45:14< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42115 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add [replace_schedule] tag, to replace ToD schedule
20100412 04:45:58< Crab_> Greywhind: see share_maps and share_view flags and ally_fog in team.cpp
20100412 04:46:26< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42116 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20100412 04:46:26< CIA-32> Add the minimum ping interval to the ping timeout. Define this interval as a constant in network.hpp
20100412 04:46:26< CIA-32> backported from trunk
20100412 04:46:50< Greywhind> Crab_: will do
20100412 04:47:52< noy> back in awhile
20100412 04:48:04< Greywhind> ok. thanks for the input
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20100412 04:52:30< AI0867> {{DevFeature1.9}} now works on the wiki
20100412 04:52:45< AI0867> so we can distinguish between 1.7 features that haven't yet been unmarked and new 1.9 features
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20100412 05:31:02< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42117 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: fix a label in test scenario
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20100412 06:03:35< happygrue> nagbot: Greywhind?
20100412 06:03:37< nagbot> greywhind : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//SummerOfCodeGreywhind : http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/review/google/gsoc2010/npartlan/t127077146530
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20100412 06:42:48< Soliton> AI0867: if we haven't checked for a while it means the client was paused in some way, like opening the right click menu.
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20100412 07:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 88 bugs, 265 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100412 08:42:12< aranair> happygrue: thanks for the review, i am not too sure code-wise if it is possible, but in this system, i plan to make it backward compatible: there will be a way to fully simulate the original alliance system through tags. for example in the evaluation of enemies/allies for instance, it would be relatively easy to use the alliancename to evaluate it as before the change.
20100412 08:43:11< aranair> happygrue: it might be true that it is intrusive, but it would be possible to revert back to the old system anytime by gamehosts or creators
20100412 08:47:47< aranair> happygrue: then again it isn't my call as to how intrusive it is, kinda looks like mine is going to the drains of late ;P thanks anyways ;)
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20100412 10:39:46< Ivanovic> moin
20100412 10:55:46< Truongan> Ivanovic: I'd like to talk about GSoC 
20100412 10:55:58< Ivanovic> that is good
20100412 10:56:11< Ivanovic> you should say something about how you want to work on your project and the likes
20100412 10:56:19< Ivanovic> (including what the project is ;) )
20100412 10:59:12< Truongan> Ivanovic: Currently I'm working on improving the proposal. 
20100412 10:59:54< Truongan> I love the idea "Extend Wesnoth Lua AI Support" 
20100412 11:00:52< Truongan> To be honest, I'm kinda inexperience in writing "project description" and stuff :"> 
20100412 11:01:29< Upthorn> Truongan: There are other student proposals on the wiki (see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas for links to all of them)
20100412 11:02:05< Ivanovic> Truongan: the idea behind writing the proposal is that you got yourself a good idea about what you will be doing
20100412 11:02:13< Upthorn> you can look through and see how other students described their projects
20100412 11:02:37< Ivanovic> so that it is not just a case of "through the stuff at me, i will handle it" but more of "this is what i'd like to do and what i think would make sense"
20100412 11:02:46< Ivanovic> and as Upthorn said
20100412 11:03:01< Ivanovic> you are free to read other proposals to get an idea how things *can* look (not always should!)
20100412 11:03:21< Ivanovic> a really exceptional proposal from last year: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab
20100412 11:03:32< Ivanovic> yes, we don't expect proposals to be this verbose and detailed
20100412 11:04:01< Ivanovic> though a good proposal shows that you invested time in getting to know what is already there and how things can and should change
20100412 11:04:30< fendrin> Was I to harsh? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=421143#p421143
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20100412 11:10:45< Truongan> Ivanovic: just one more question: In case I didn't get familiar enough with wesnoth code base to submit patches in time before Proposal reviewing and ranking time ended, Can I show some code that I wrote for something else (it's better than nothing)? If yes, how? 
20100412 11:11:16< Ivanovic> eg by providing links to places where this code is to be found
20100412 11:11:55< Ivanovic> fendrin: no, it was not too harsh
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20100412 11:13:40< fendrin> :-)
20100412 11:14:55< Truongan> Ivanovic: I think I have asked enough for now :) thank you. I will have to work real hard to catchup with Crab's impressive proposal :)
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20100412 12:38:01< Ivanovic> Truongan: catching up with his impressive proposal is almost impossible in the short time you got left
20100412 12:38:11< Ivanovic> since the proposal does clearly show that he knows the codebase really well
20100412 12:38:49< Ivanovic> (he started right with the announcement that wesnoth was accepted in gsoc 2009 and one week later he had commit access and *lots* of things already in work, so he was right into the code)
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20100412 12:40:14< Ivanovic> it is barely possible to reach that level and to do so you need lots of time, not possible in the short time that is left till we got to decide who to accept
20100412 12:40:33< Ivanovic> and, another important thing: he asked questions in here while working on things and discussed his ideas with us
20100412 12:50:23< Ivanovic> Crab_: can you please have a look at the "Default AI" part of this untranslateable string report: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15843
20100412 12:50:49< Ivanovic> that is: i had a short look into data/ai/ais/default_ai.cfg and saw  "description=" line without translation marker and the likes
20100412 12:51:16< Ivanovic> is this already the problem, or is the prob somewhere in src/ ?
20100412 12:51:27< Ivanovic> what is used to generate the display name in the drop down selection?
20100412 12:56:20< Ivanovic> okay, looks like this is enough
20100412 12:56:57< Ivanovic> though i got no real idea what RCA could mean in this context (so that translators got some help i will change the strings slightly
20100412 13:07:07< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42118 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fixed some untranslateable strings, adding some comment to the RCA AI (this fixes bug #15843)
20100412 13:09:04< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42119 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20100412 13:09:04< CIA-32> fixed some untranslateable strings, adding some comment to the RCA AI (this fixes bug #15843)
20100412 13:09:04< CIA-32> merging r42118 from branches/1.8
20100412 13:15:33< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42120 /branches/1.8/ (130 files in 25 dirs): 
20100412 13:15:34< CIA-32> pot-update (2 new strings in wesnoth, 1 new string in wesnoth-lib)
20100412 13:15:34< CIA-32> regenerated doc files
20100412 13:18:36< teaser> Greywhind: Hi, just read your gsoc-proposal about the alliance system and I would like to talk a bit with you about it, do you have time now (or should I just say what I have to say for you to read the logs?)
20100412 13:19:40< teaser> (btw, I'm not a developer just an interested user, so you should listen more to the real devs)
20100412 13:21:21< teaser> I have one concern with and one idea for your proposal. The concern being that it lacks a share_defeat-key...
20100412 13:22:17< teaser> I can imagine lots of places where I would consider it fair to share defeat and also lots where I don't think it is fair. Also defeat /= victory
20100412 13:22:43< teaser> For example say that you loose when an enemy unit reaches a certain hex, should your allies loose too?
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20100412 13:26:35< teaser> As for the idea: I think having the possibility to create named groups for the private chat would increase the possibility for negotiation (UI-wise it would allow to /createchat thecoolest, /addchat thecoolest greywind, tsr, n00b and then when you open the chat-interface there is a checkbox for messages to the 'thecoolest' that relays all the messages to the group members (if you are in the group)
20100412 13:26:59< teaser> ok, Greywhind, the above is all, feel free to ignore ;)
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20100412 13:37:53< norbert_> Ivanovic, are you around?
20100412 13:50:15< Ivanovic> partly
20100412 13:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 87 bugs, 266 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100412 13:51:23< norbert_> that's probably suffice for what I like to ask/say
20100412 13:54:01< norbert_> within days, I'll launch a website where people can vote on scenarios/campaigns (I mentioned it on IRC; you may have read it); when it's up and running, I'll announce it on the Wesnoth Forum; any advice on what I should (not) do when I announce it, and what section of the forum do you think will be most suitable for this?
20100412 13:54:26< Ivanovic> to be honest: i got no idea where this fits best
20100412 13:54:35< Ivanovic> probably in the users forum
20100412 13:57:09< norbert_> the "Users' Forum" board under "BfW - Users", yeah
20100412 13:57:26< norbert_> anything else I should (not) do
20100412 13:57:34< Ivanovic> afk, will answer questions (at least those directed at me) when i am back
20100412 13:57:42< Ivanovic> no idea
20100412 13:58:04< norbert_> okay, I guess I can just go for it then
20100412 13:58:08< norbert_> thanks for the feedback
20100412 13:58:12< norbert_> will use the Users' Forum
20100412 14:09:30< shadowmaster> norbert_: definitely Users'
20100412 14:09:54< shadowmaster> your target audience is less likely to pay attention in more specific forums such as Website
20100412 14:10:16< shadowmaster> and Off-Topic is autopruned for some silly reason
20100412 14:10:42< fabi> shadowmaster: Would you please create the new subforum for the experimental fork?
20100412 14:11:02< shadowmaster> er.
20100412 14:11:11< freim> question: is it possible to simulate ranged combat with WML?
20100412 14:11:37< shadowmaster> fabi: only once I finish reading your post
20100412 14:11:51< fabi> freim: Not that easy. At least it is not possible to use the attack dialog in a proper way...
20100412 14:11:59< freim> hmm, right
20100412 14:12:01< norbert_> shadowmaster, ok
20100412 14:12:45< freim> fabi: I just got thinking when someone talked about a Panzer General mod
20100412 14:12:51< freim> that would have been cool to make
20100412 14:13:04< fabi> freim: But maybe now we have a modular ai system and the lacking of support for ranged attack in the ai was the main reason to remove the ranged attack feature we can get the thing back in again.
20100412 14:13:49< freim> would be nice
20100412 14:13:53< fabi> freim: At least the experimental fork will be open to that idea.
20100412 14:15:17< fabi> freim: A wesnoth mode in the style of the bluebyte game "Battle Isle" comes to my mind as well.
20100412 14:15:22< fabi> s/mode/mod
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20100412 14:19:14< freim> fabi: yeah, lots of things can be made as mods with ranged
20100412 14:19:19< zookeeper> freim, yeah, it's not possible to use the normal attack dialog for that. you'd have to do it via a clumsy right-click option.
20100412 14:19:58< fabi> freim: Are you a c++ developer?
20100412 14:20:13< freim> fabi: nope, just dabble in art
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20100412 14:21:06< Blarumyrran> You did the ashiviere portrait, right?
20100412 14:21:27< freim> nope, never done portraits. Terrain
20100412 14:21:42< Blarumyrran> nevermind then
20100412 14:21:45< freim> :)
20100412 14:22:06< fabi> freim: Okay, be sure to fill a feature request for it. If it gets marked invalid submit it on the bugtracker of the experimental fork. The place will be announced soon on the forum.
20100412 14:22:20< freim> fabi: ok, thanks
20100412 14:23:09< zookeeper> Blarumyrran, i'm pretty sure it was pickslide who did it
20100412 14:23:33< Blarumyrran> okay
20100412 14:25:49< shadowmaster> Blarumyrran: the current bit- Asheviere portrait was done by Pickslide IIRC
20100412 14:26:03< shadowmaster> or done by Pickslide and later revised by Jetrel, something like that
20100412 14:26:50< shadowmaster> fabi: I think I'm not going to create or expose the experimental fork forum until I see a more organized plan/schedule in Moderators'
20100412 14:27:29< shadowmaster> in fact, right now I have no idea what its title should be, what its moderators should be (e.g. a subset of Developers?), or what its description should be
20100412 14:28:14< fabi> shadowmaster: Fine, I am going to discuss this issues with YogiHH.
20100412 14:28:56< shadowmaster> Blarumyrran: thread http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14075
20100412 14:29:20< Blarumyrran> shadowmaster, yep, found that already
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20100412 14:36:38< FAAB> norbert_: is it you who is trying to gather info on author of default maps ?
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20100412 14:38:26< norbert_> FAAB: correct
20100412 14:38:56< FAAB> olof was on the stable server so reaching him is not hopeless
20100412 14:39:19< norbert_> stable 1.6 or 1.8?
20100412 14:39:52< FAAB> I tried to direct him to your thread but it doesn't seem he has found the way
20100412 14:39:57< FAAB> 1.8
20100412 14:40:10< Soliton> last seen: 18:27:34 11.04.2010
20100412 14:40:37< FAAB> it was about 4 hours later from now
20100412 14:40:58< FAAB> you might want to be idle there to catch him if he comes again
20100412 14:41:34< FAAB> our chat must be in the replay of his game (it was siege castle or something like that)
20100412 14:41:58< FAAB> he said something like "yeah, they are all mine" ;)
20100412 14:42:23< norbert_> thanks for the information
20100412 14:42:40< shadowmaster> huh.
20100412 14:43:05< shadowmaster> the battery charge meter was at 22%...then at 26%...and now it changed to 24% and 23%
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20100412 15:21:12< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: battery readings are not always reliable
20100412 15:21:51 * Ivanovic remembers his now ancient laptop which at the end of the batteries lifetime was in the upper 90% area for some 30mins just to suddenly drop down to 3%
20100412 15:22:10< Ivanovic> (yes, when i bought the laptop, the battery would not work much more than 90mins)
20100412 15:22:23< shadowmaster> it probably depends on the type of battery too, though
20100412 15:22:42< Ivanovic> it depends if the battery is broken or not and the likes, too
20100412 15:22:43< Ivanovic> ;)
20100412 15:23:00< shadowmaster> anyway, Linux has never made up its "mind" about what battery I'm using
20100412 15:23:48< shadowmaster> it's always said that its designed capacity is 9000 mAh when its maximum capacity was 4000 mAh when I first bought it (just like my Acer laptop's, which has the same maximum and design capacity at the beginning)
20100412 15:24:26< Ivanovic> 9000mAh sounds like some broken programming of the battery
20100412 15:24:40< Ivanovic> capacities like this do sound too strange and by far too huge to me!
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20100412 15:25:02< shadowmaster> the manufacturer's software said it was alright back then
20100412 15:25:26< shadowmaster> it doesn't include a way to check the reported design/maximum/current capacity though
20100412 15:25:27< Ivanovic> the info that linux does use is the plain acpi info (or whatever the manufacturer has as special info, eg tp_smapi for thinkpads)
20100412 15:29:11< norbert_> upper 90% to 3%, reminds me of hp-levels which thinks I have 25% left and 3% after I print 1 b/w page
20100412 15:29:55< Ivanovic> the battery was plain broken
20100412 15:30:12< Ivanovic> staying at 97% for some half hour is wrong when you got a P4 (desktop!) laptop
20100412 15:33:03< shadowmaster> another desktop class cpu stuck into a laptop?
20100412 15:33:27< Ivanovic> was not this unusual those 6 years ago
20100412 15:33:55< Ivanovic> ups, sorry, even 7 years by now
20100412 15:34:47< Ivanovic> basically a portable desktop computer with integrated screen and small USV
20100412 15:34:49< Ivanovic> ;)
20100412 15:52:50< shadowmaster> aha, hahaha.
20100412 15:52:53< shadowmaster> stupid forum censoring
20100412 15:53:09 * shadowmaster punches forums.w.o
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20100412 16:27:54< timotei> hello everybody
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20100412 17:14:43< FAAB> norbert_: olof is on the MP server right now
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20100412 17:18:41< norbert_> FAAB, thanks
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20100412 17:41:23< timotei> wesbot: seen mordante ?
20100412 17:41:23< wesbot> timotei: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 19h 47m ago.  19h 47m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20100412 17:49:16< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen allefant
20100412 17:49:17< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick allefant last spoke 18h 13m ago.  17h 58m ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20100412 18:12:57< shadowmaster> elias: test case here: http://shadowm.rewound.net/junk/shadowmasters_test_addon.tar.gz
20100412 18:13:27< shadowmaster> (I am too lazy to figure out the correct ports and set up the port forwarding I'd need to upload this to the add-ons server from the network I'm connected to)
20100412 18:14:20< elias> thanks
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20100412 19:46:55< mordante> servus
20100412 19:47:06< timotei> hello mordante >:D<
20100412 19:47:12< timotei> I've been waiting for you all day long:))
20100412 19:47:17< timotei> (almost) 
20100412 19:47:25< mordante> hi timotei 
20100412 19:47:38< mordante> timotei, what do you need me for?
20100412 19:48:03< timotei> well, I want to "improve"/"redesign" the way wesnoth starts or something like that
20100412 19:48:05< timotei> in the debug mode
20100412 19:48:23-!- Blueblaze [~nick@99.182.52.75] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100412 19:48:29< timotei> that will be used by the editor in the 1st, and by Ivanovic in testing starting campaigns,...
20100412 19:48:38< timotei> if you want, check the log:
20100412 19:49:05< timotei> http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2010/04/%23wesnoth-dev.2010-04-11.log
20100412 19:49:07< mordante> I always read the log, will come back to you once I read it
20100412 19:49:15< timotei> from 22.57
20100412 19:49:19< timotei> ok
20100412 19:49:20< timotei> ;)
20100412 19:51:26< mordante> gabba next to the priorities I like to have things marked as optional or mandatory
20100412 19:51:52< mordante> gabba priorities and optional/mandatory are not always the same
20100412 19:52:46< mordante> gabba and since your proposal might be too much work I rather some mandatory and optional
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20100412 19:58:28< mordante> hi billynux 
20100412 19:58:34< billynux> hi mordante 
20100412 19:58:48< billynux> I couldn't log in during the weekend
20100412 19:59:01< billynux> how is it going? a lot of work due to GSoC?
20100412 19:59:06< mordante> can happen
20100412 19:59:20< mordante> yes spend most of the Sunday reviewing proposals
20100412 19:59:28< mordante> timotei, I see what you want and I discussed it with Crab_ before, but at the it's not possible
20100412 19:59:48< mordante> timotei, both gui2 needs to be modified and we also have gui1 still there
20100412 20:00:07< mordante> once somebody does the GSoC input project this idea will become easier
20100412 20:00:39< timotei> so, I need to remain to use hacks?
20100412 20:00:45< mordante> I still think it would be a good thing to do, but not any time soon
20100412 20:00:46< timotei> like currents for tutorial/test?
20100412 20:01:09< mordante> I hope that's not part of your summer of code proposal
20100412 20:01:39< timotei> well, I have only to make a way to run a "specified" campaign/scenario from command line
20100412 20:01:40< timotei> that's all
20100412 20:01:59< mordante> run as in start or also do things in it?
20100412 20:02:01< timotei> and there were 2 ways: like current tutorial/test think
20100412 20:02:06< timotei> start only
20100412 20:02:31< timotei> there will be some ... *wml debugging* features like: wml hot-redeploying
20100412 20:02:35< mordante> maybe look at what the :cl code does
20100412 20:03:07< mordante> I think that should be doable from the command line and would indeed be nice for testing
20100412 20:03:24< mordante> we can already start MP games from the command line, so I think most parts are threre
20100412 20:03:27< mordante> there*
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20100412 20:04:16< timotei> the thing Crab_ told me, yesterday, after thinking about it today there was a question
20100412 20:04:23< timotei> isn't already a "start campaign thing"?
20100412 20:04:26< mordante> and maybe also add a --campaign foo --scenario select and pop up the scenario selection dialog
20100412 20:04:31< timotei> yes
20100412 20:05:04< mordante> -c goes to the campaign selection menu
20100412 20:05:32< timotei> oh, right
20100412 20:05:59< timotei> well, let's see, if I develop a similar feature for scenario starting... should I go on gui2?
20100412 20:06:01< timotei> or gui1?
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20100412 20:06:59< mordante> normally new things gui2, but the dialog you want already exists
20100412 20:07:14< mordante> start a campaign in debug mode and type :cl
20100412 20:07:45< timotei> ok, one second
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20100412 20:09:54< billynux> so mordante, anything you want me to do in the meantime?
20100412 20:11:06< boucman> in look for easy coding tasks ? :D
20100412 20:11:30< mordante> that's always a good idea ;-)
20100412 20:11:34< timotei> mordante, ok, I've checked out the :cl
20100412 20:11:46< Upthorn> boucman: you're on, great.
20100412 20:11:58< boucman> just commented your proposal, btw
20100412 20:12:06< Upthorn> Yeah I saw
20100412 20:12:25< Upthorn> about http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup#Second_set_of_data
20100412 20:12:56< Upthorn> this describes how the storing of persistence data might be modified when an era is active
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20100412 20:13:22< Upthorn> because an era can significantly change how the game works
20100412 20:13:29< boucman> yes, but I don't understand why eras using their own namespaces wouldn't be enough...
20100412 20:13:56< Upthorn> because the campaign can still run WML events
20100412 20:14:10< Upthorn> the era will use its namespace for WML that is part of the era addon
20100412 20:14:46< Upthorn> but the namespaces in campaign's [set_global_variable] events won't be changed
20100412 20:15:09< boucman> (anybody with better knowledge feel free to contradict me but) I don't think it's possible to activate an era and a campaign simultaneously unless they were meant to work together
20100412 20:15:16< mordante> Upthorn, regarding the namespaces you can use the directory name of the addon, as name that already is a valid name
20100412 20:15:26< mordante> billynux, any thing specific you want to know
20100412 20:15:56< Upthorn> boucman: I was told that campaigns and eras do not get to decide what other addons they can be used with
20100412 20:16:18< mordante> Upthorn, and I think we can assume the addon directory name is unique, I think more things will go wrong if not
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20100412 20:16:37< boucman> well, they can "depend" on each other, yes
20100412 20:16:51< Upthorn> mordante: well, it is possible to get addons from places other than the addon server
20100412 20:17:00< boucman> but as usual with dependency, the son knows about the parent and is supposed to use it properly
20100412 20:17:37< mordante> Upthorn, true but installing them probably causes problems
20100412 20:18:03< mordante> not 100% sure but two addons sharing the same directory sounds like a problem to me
20100412 20:18:07< Upthorn> well, you might want to keep your persistence data when you uninstall an addon
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20100412 20:18:23< Upthorn> like you might want to keep your savegames when you uninstall wesnoth
20100412 20:18:30-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100412 20:18:40< Upthorn> so you could have two addons that aren't installed simultaneously
20100412 20:18:51< Upthorn> but have persistence data living in the same user directory
20100412 20:19:21< mordante> true, I've no problem that you want to add the author name, but I just expect it's overkill
20100412 20:19:21< Upthorn> if addons have the same name, it will cause problems just to use addon name.
20100412 20:20:26< Upthorn> boucman: My understanding is that if a campaign can be played with one era, it can be played with any.
20100412 20:21:24< Upthorn> I can't figure out how to activate an era (or where to get one), so I haven't tested myself
20100412 20:22:09< Upthorn> The [era] block proposal is with the expectation that a campaign can't control what era it is used with
20100412 20:22:21< boucman> Upthorn: my understanding was that no, but I havn't tested either, zookeeper might be the most knowledgeable
20100412 20:22:33< Upthorn> and so it may need its persistence data protected.
20100412 20:22:47< Upthorn> If that is not the case, I will remove it from my proposal, as it is not necessary.
20100412 20:23:13< boucman> zookeeper: around ?
20100412 20:23:26< billynux> mordante: no, just if you wanted me to do anything specific to the prototype, etc...
20100412 20:23:37< Upthorn> it seems unlikely, he's been idle for more than 2 hours.
20100412 20:24:12< boucman> Upthorn: ok, he usually pops up  in the evening, he'll tell us later
20100412 20:24:27< Upthorn> zookeeper: if you read the logs, when you get back, I have a question for you about how eras and campaigns can interact.
20100412 20:25:20< boucman> Upthorn: if he reads the logs, he'll read the question too :P
20100412 20:26:05< Upthorn> boucman: about saving side="global" to all clients... I meant for my proposal said that already. I think I got distracted while editing and forgot to change that.
20100412 20:26:19< boucman> hehe, ok
20100412 20:26:25< Upthorn> Woah. *I meant for my proposal to say that
20100412 20:26:31< Upthorn> I can grammar good, no?
20100412 20:26:35< billynux> :)
20100412 20:27:25< Upthorn> (I only got 3 hours of sleep because one of my friends called me with an emergency, and now I am too alert to go back to bed)
20100412 20:29:14-!- Sirp [~me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100412 20:29:30< billynux> coffee ftw?
20100412 20:29:38< mordante> billynux, you read the comments left by us at your proposal?
20100412 20:30:05< billynux> no mordante, sorry, where are those?
20100412 20:30:25< mordante> billynux, here http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/review/google/gsoc2010/billynux/t127072324332
20100412 20:30:55< mordante> billynux, you can subscribe to your proposal to get notifications after updates (if not done automatically)
20100412 20:30:55< billynux> thx
20100412 20:32:17< mordante> you're welcome
20100412 20:32:50< Upthorn> billynux: Can't. I am hypersensitive to caffeine and get heart palpitations when I consume much at all.
20100412 20:33:23< Upthorn> Also anxiety attacks. It is truly a curse.
20100412 20:33:49< billynux> Upthorn, bummer :( ... its my favorite elixir 
20100412 20:34:19< shadowmaster> Upthorn: sad
20100412 20:34:51< shadowmaster> I had some problems with coffee and my heart for a while, but it was my stomach what collapsed first
20100412 20:34:56-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-115-135.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20100412 20:36:40< Sapient> in college I didn't drink coffee, so I would keep a container of Tang mix near me and smell it or pop some in my mouth to stay awake
20100412 20:37:55< shadowmaster> ohhh...Tang :o
20100412 20:40:55< billynux> I drink a lot of mate too, it's like tea! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage)
20100412 20:41:22< billynux> all right mordante, I just read the comments. Should I answer them at the wiki or GSoC page?
20100412 20:42:07< mordante> billynux, depends on which part, but most in the wiki I guess
20100412 20:42:30< mordante> billynux, just make sure you mention in the google page which parts you modified
20100412 20:42:42< shadowmaster> :
20100412 20:42:44< mordante> we track this to know about what got updated
20100412 20:43:18< billynux> ok, thanks!
20100412 20:43:36< mordante> you're welcome
20100412 20:43:56< zookeeper> boucman, what do you need?
20100412 20:44:16< boucman> zookeeper: we are discussing Upthorn's proposal and are a bit confused, 
20100412 20:44:37< zookeeper> Upthorn, well, are you talking about multiplayer campaigns?
20100412 20:44:44< boucman> is it possible to play any campaign with any era, or do one of them has to specify which other to use
20100412 20:44:50< mordante> afk 
20100412 20:45:10-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100412 20:47:07< zookeeper> SP campaigns have nothing to do with eras, but of course in MP there's always an era (at least i'm not aware that MP campaigns would be an exception)
20100412 20:47:30 * boucman thinks they should be :P
20100412 20:47:49< boucman> more precisely, the standard MP game creation screen make little sense for campaigns
20100412 20:47:57< zookeeper> true
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20100412 20:51:34< zookeeper> Upthorn, so basically, AFAIK eras only affect the factions, meaning leaders+recruits (but those can be overridden by the scenario, of course) and also an era can include events
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20100412 20:55:27< billynux> Ivanovic, mordante (et al): Thanks for the thorough review, I'll be answering the simple questions later tonight (meaning about 10hrs) and continue to improve the technical details in the meantime. Gotta go now. Bye y'all
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20100412 20:56:12< billynux> Upthorn, try mate (see above) if you can get a hold of it in your country, it a national tradition here in Argentina!
20100412 20:56:22< billynux> *it is a ...
20100412 20:56:52< Elsewise> billynux, your given link is not working
20100412 20:57:36< elias> shadowmaster: ok, tried with your test addon again. I think .ign files work in trunk now
20100412 20:57:46< billynux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage) ? It works in my browser
20100412 20:58:05-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@d155184.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100412 20:58:09< billynux> Elsewise, or the review? -> that link didn't work, but i
20100412 20:58:15< billynux> ...found it
20100412 20:58:21-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@d155184.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Changing host]
20100412 20:58:21-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100412 20:58:27< YogiHH> hello
20100412 21:00:42< Sapient> yo Yogi
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20100412 21:02:57-!- billynux [~billy@239-226-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20100412 21:16:51< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100412 21:17:24< mordante> hi [Relic] 
20100412 21:17:33< [Relic]> :)
20100412 21:18:32< Upthorn> zookeeper: hang on a moment, I am certain that someone told me that eras are more powerful than that. For instance, that some eras can entirely remove a terrain type
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20100412 21:19:31< Soliton> an event can do that.
20100412 21:20:45< Upthorn> Soliton: Err, right. I missed where he mentioned events.
20100412 21:21:30< CIA-32> mordante * r42121 /trunk/src/ (ai/configuration.cpp gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp video.cpp): Strip trailing whitespace.
20100412 21:23:47< timotei> mordante, where is that "cl" command written?
20100412 21:23:49< timotei> harcoded?
20100412 21:23:52< timotei> or in some wml files?
20100412 21:24:14< Upthorn> So: Players can mix and match eras with maps -- maps have no control over what eras they may be used with, and eras have no control over what scenarios they may be used with. Currently this is the case for MP campaigns as well, but may be changed in the future
20100412 21:24:55< shadowmaster> elias: okay, I'll try to confirm at home today or tomorrow
20100412 21:25:34< Upthorn> Eras can significantly modify the way the game works, to the extent that it may be unsafe to allow campaigns to overwrite their default persistence data when an era is active
20100412 21:26:25< CIA-32> mordante * r42122 /trunk/doc/design/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Update design documentation.
20100412 21:26:36< Soliton> timotei: console_handler::do_choose_level()
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20100412 21:30:14< timotei> ok thanks Soliton 
20100412 21:37:09< Upthorn> There is a "default" era, though. Under the default era, it should be safe for wml events to be allowed to work with era-free (single player) persistence data
20100412 21:38:01< Upthorn> So it seems like my current proposal for how eras and campaigns should interact is pretty firm.
20100412 21:41:14< Soliton> note that default also has some events, like making 4MP leaders quick.
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20100412 21:49:49< mordante> I'm off night
20100412 21:49:57< YogiHH> night, mordante
20100412 21:51:35-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20100412 22:03:40< shadowmaster> hi YogiHH 
20100412 22:03:52< YogiHH> hey shadowmaster 
20100412 22:04:25< crimson_penguin> bah, I can never remember who I was talking about here about what
20100412 22:04:36< crimson_penguin> like, the ocean builds
20100412 22:04:53< shadowmaster> oh, I was wondering: when will the animated water be merged into trunk? :)
20100412 22:04:53 * Soliton points at boucman.
20100412 22:05:14 * boucman starts whistling
20100412 22:05:39< boucman> shadowmaster: i'm not very optimistic, the code is ready, but the artist seems to be MIA
20100412 22:05:50< boucman> I have the images if somebody wants to continue, though
20100412 22:05:52< shadowmaster> argh.
20100412 22:06:36< shadowmaster> maybe he got annoyed for not seeing it in 1.8?
20100412 22:08:26< boucman> shadowmaster: he arrived late during the release process, and I told him from the start it wouldn't be in...
20100412 22:08:42< Upthorn> so, boucman, are you convinced about the necessity of a system to handle era-campaign interaction?
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20100412 22:09:41< boucman> I still believe it's too borderline a case to do such a deep study in your proposal, i'd rather have more info on GM, but now I understand the problem
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20100412 22:12:26< shadowmaster> boucman: okay, then one of those nasty Realistus Vivus monsters ate him :(
20100412 22:12:40< boucman> yeah, I guess so
20100412 22:29:16< Upthorn> boucman: yeah, it only has that much depth because none of the solutions seemed to be definitively the right way to handle it
20100412 22:29:34< timotei> shadowmaster, very nice wesnoth history :D
20100412 22:29:59< Upthorn> if I'd realized that eras were an MP only consideration, it wouldn't have appeared at all yet
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20100412 22:30:52< Upthorn> because I'm tryng to work through my concepts in the order that work will be done
20100412 22:31:40< boucman> Upthorn: you can describe the different solutions, pro and cons, and say you havn't decided yet... 
20100412 22:32:14< Upthorn> boucman: what you see there is what happened when I tried to do that
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20100412 22:32:48< Upthorn> boucman: Did my revised timeline go into enough detail for you? I realize things are still kind of vague, but I'm not really sure how to work more detail in than that
20100412 22:34:44< Upthorn> and again, if you could show me an example of a proposal that you think is well oriented towards tasks and deliverables, I would really appreciate it. I would like mine to be better about it, but I have difficulty organizing things into pages
20100412 22:35:24< Upthorn> I know in my head what is when, but I am not sure how to commit that knowledge to wiki
20100412 22:37:15< boucman> Upthorn: Ivanovic is better than me at juging timelines, but this one definitely looks better
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20100412 22:58:56< timotei> boucman, around?
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20100412 23:02:28< Espreon> loonycyborg: Would you please update the binary on the server?
20100412 23:02:36< Espreon> (The hidden Windows binary)
20100412 23:03:03< boucman> timotei: yup, what's up ?
20100412 23:03:25< timotei> I'm looking in game.cpp, line 1012 (new_campaign())
20100412 23:03:30< timotei> const config::const_child_itors &ci = game_config().child_range("campaign");
20100412 23:03:30< timotei> 	std::vector<config> campaigns(ci.first, ci.second);
20100412 23:03:46< timotei> ci.first / ci.second is just like: vector.begin() / vector.end() ?
20100412 23:04:24< boucman> I guess so, I usually go check config.[ch]pp when in doubt
20100412 23:04:55< timotei> well, that's not in config, it's outside :D
20100412 23:05:01< timotei> .first /second
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20100412 23:08:07< timotei> ok thanks boucman 
20100412 23:08:08< Sapient> if by "just like" you mean that they both implement the Input Iterator pattern, then yes
20100412 23:08:36< timotei> ok
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20100412 23:09:16< Sapient> http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/InputIterator.html
20100412 23:09:51< timotei> thanks Sapient 
20100412 23:10:10< timotei> ok guys, I have to go
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20100412 23:10:11< timotei> good night
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20100412 23:38:27< gabba> hi
20100412 23:38:41< Espreon> Hello.
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20100412 23:46:59< gabba> Ivanovic, Crab_: around?
20100412 23:47:06< Crab_> yes
20100412 23:47:55< gabba> hi Crab_, what do you think of the new priorities I added to my calendar?
20100412 23:53:44< Crab_> they're good. but, the timeline seems strange..
20100412 23:54:03< Crab_> e.g., why put low-priority issues *before* higher-priority issues ?
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20100412 23:57:02< Crab_> gabba: what do you think about it ?
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20100412 23:57:52< gabba> Crab_: I grouped tasks that are logically easier to do together; however depending on how well each week goes I can drop some low-priority stuff along the way
20100412 23:58:08< gabba> Crab_: that's how I saw it anyways
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20100412 23:59:55< gabba> Crab_: You and Ilor had optional items spread out around the various milestones too last year; I just elected to have a more fine-grained priority ladder rather than mandatory/optional
20100412 23:59:57< Crab_> gabba: also, I suggest that you reserve a week for bugfixes before midterm
--- Log closed Tue Apr 13 00:00:17 2010