--- Log opened Fri Apr 16 00:00:00 2010
--- Day changed Fri Apr 16 2010
20100416 00:00:00< billynux> I do, yes
20100416 00:00:27< Crab_> billynux: then I'd like to invite you to #wesnoth-mentor
20100416 00:00:35< billynux> ok
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20100416 01:10:56< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42138 /branches/fendrin_pathfind_and_editor/: Re-branch fendrin_editor (which also contains the pathfind changes) to maintain it.
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20100416 01:14:34< AI0867> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15787 <-- looks like a default copy-constructor messing around with pointers, though I'm not sure
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20100416 01:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 87 bugs, 265 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100416 01:57:24< CIA-32> crab * r42139 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/about.cfg src/ai/default/ai.cpp): fix a bug in scoring of AI recall list. Patch by billynux
20100416 01:57:37< Crab_> billynux: ^
20100416 02:01:46< Crab_> wesbot: log 42139
20100416 02:01:47< wesbot> crab * r42139 : fix a bug in scoring of AI recall list. Patch by billynux
20100416 02:01:50< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=42139
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20100416 04:02:16< jacob_> wesbot: topic
20100416 04:02:19< wesbot> jacob_: Don't be impatient, wait until something changes...  *tsk*
20100416 04:02:31< jacob_> There is another bug
20100416 04:02:40< jacob_> >.<
20100416 04:08:09< King_Elendil> what?
20100416 04:08:16< King_Elendil> nvm actually
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20100416 04:55:58< shadowmaster> fendrin: aound?
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20100416 05:55:04< RLutz> Any devs on late at night, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29588 could use a hand ;)
20100416 05:55:50< shadowmaster> wow
20100416 05:56:08< RLutz> I broke gcc, I win
20100416 05:56:15< shadowmaster> I don't think I can help. You might need to wait till someone more capable than me appears tomorrow ;)
20100416 05:56:41< shadowmaster> as a workaround, maybe your distro provides alternate gcc versions?
20100416 05:56:45< RLutz> I'm checking out the trunk from svn in a last ditch effort that maybe that'll work, otherwise I'll hop in tomorrow
20100416 05:57:10< RLutz> Yea, I was considering that too... Honestly I should probably file a bug report with gcc too, or at least check that someone else hasn't already
20100416 05:57:56< RLutz> I was more so curious with what package scons was looking for exactly (the second little code block in my post)
20100416 05:58:20< shadowmaster> libboost1.xx-iostreams-dev
20100416 05:58:33< RLutz> I have libboost-iostreams1.40-dev, but it says I don't have gzip support in Boost Iostreams
20100416 05:58:45< shadowmaster> er, oops, my mistake
20100416 05:58:52< shadowmaster> RLutz: check build/config.log
20100416 05:59:16< shadowmaster>  I'd suspect it's saying that because it's hitting the compiler bug too
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20100416 06:24:10< RLutz> Weird, I tried to compile it using gcc-4.3, told me it couldn't find libboost>1.35 even though it's clearly installed... I updated my forum post, guess I'll swing by sometime tomorrow and beg for help :P
20100416 06:25:31< StandYourGround> are you on a Mac?
20100416 06:25:39< RLutz> No, Linux
20100416 06:25:44< StandYourGround> oh ok
20100416 06:25:46< RLutz> http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29588
20100416 06:26:43< StandYourGround> I would check where your programs are searching for dependencies
20100416 06:27:05< StandYourGround> I know on Mac in Xcode, it looks in default folders only unless you tell it otherwise...
20100416 06:27:09< RLutz> Presumably standard locations, /usr/lib, I mean I can see the shared objects in /usr/lib
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20100416 08:56:11< CIA-32> silene * r42140 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Fixed segfault on missing animations introduced while fixing bug #15787.
20100416 08:57:03< CIA-32> silene * r42141 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Fixed null pointer dereference when redrawing a unit without any standing animation. (Fix for bug #15787.)
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20100416 09:23:41< Ivanovic> moin
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20100416 09:23:52< timotei> hello Ivanovic 
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20100416 10:08:08< Crab_> fendrin: , YogiHH: about WesnothExperimental wiki page, I recommend you to use a template with a category inside of it instead of simply using a category, for marking pages. it's more scalable and it'll allow you to easily, say, 'style' your pages with a common header (like it's done in gsoc pages)
20100416 10:08:55< fendrin> Good idea, thanks Crab_
20100416 10:08:58< Crab_> (I can do it for you, if you want)
20100416 10:10:20< Crab_> fendrin: also, if you make sure that each individual idea page has sections with well-known names, then you'll be able to make autogenerated list/tables with their summary on your main 'portal' page. (again, exactly as it's done for gsoc)
20100416 10:10:47< fendrin> Sounds good.
20100416 10:11:38< Crab_> (again, if you want it, you can ping me after you have a few pages, and I'll be able to set it up for you)
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20100416 10:58:59< fendrin> Crab_: I am rather busy right now. Can you talk to YogiHH about it?
20100416 11:00:08< Crab_> fendrin: ok
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20100416 11:32:51< pokhbocee> wesbot: seen Crab_
20100416 11:32:52< wesbot> pokhbocee: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 32m 44s ago.  32m 29s ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20100416 11:33:11< pokhbocee> ohh damn it
20100416 11:33:16< Ivanovic> pokhbocee: in general you should just ask
20100416 11:33:26< Ivanovic> IIRC crab_ often grabs the logs for his nick
20100416 11:33:58< pokhbocee> oh ok
20100416 11:34:13< pokhbocee> im having trouble retrieving data from wesnoth
20100416 11:34:37< Ivanovic> (that is one of the reasons for our public logs, this way you can leave a message and the one supposed to read it can do so even when having internet probs or the likes)
20100416 11:35:40< pokhbocee> while i was working on lua i was using the test ai files
20100416 11:35:55< pokhbocee> are there some scenarios like that for c++?
20100416 11:36:16< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: can you help me about it?
20100416 11:36:39< Ivanovic> no, i can't help with this
20100416 11:36:52< pokhbocee> hmm ok 
20100416 11:37:05< pokhbocee> i better leave crab a detailed message. thank you anyways
20100416 11:38:08< Ivanovic> that is: you can't leave a message in a query
20100416 11:38:11< Upthorn> pokhbocee: the point people were making is that you can do that here
20100416 11:38:21< Ivanovic> you have to write it in some logged chan that he does know about and where he reads the logs
20100416 11:38:36< Ivanovic> like just in here
20100416 11:39:57< pokhbocee> Crab_: the problem is as i explained above. atm im trying to find a test class or something in c++ that i can retrieve data. if its too much trouble, can i create my own imaginary objects that has attributes similar to wesnoth units. and work on them. that would really speed up the things for me.
20100416 11:40:33< pokhbocee> i meant to write it here by leaving a message :D
20100416 11:41:21< pokhbocee> Ivanovic: obviously i was using a wrong term for this. so what is it called writing to log?
20100416 11:43:10< Ivanovic> there is no term for this
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20100416 11:48:13< Upthorn> comedy of errors. My client notified me that crab came online 4 minutes before pokhbocee left.
20100416 11:48:50< timotei> mine too
20100416 11:49:03< timotei> but only on the freenode server
20100416 11:49:04< timotei> :))
20100416 11:49:10< timotei> cause on the channel is not
20100416 11:50:49< Upthorn> yeah
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20100416 12:14:56< Crab_> pokhbocee : to test a c++ ai component, you should make a c++ stage or candidate action and register it in src/ai/registry.cpp
20100416 12:16:53< Crab_> then, you'll be able to use the 'name=' attribute in [stage] or [candidate_action], to add your component to the ai turn sequence
20100416 12:18:25< Crab_> Upthorn, timotei: yes, my irc client was online but I left the channels due to a work meeting.
20100416 12:19:07< Upthorn> ah
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20100416 12:20:26< Crab_> pokhbocee: both a stage and a candidate action will have a reference to the ai context, which includes a get_info() method which gives you ai::game_info , which includes units/map/etc
20100416 12:24:29< Crab_> Upthorn: how it's going with a new prototype ( patch #1619, loading and saving of persistence data ) ?
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20100416 12:26:17< Upthorn> I actually finished everything but making the information managed (abstracting storage location, verifying event attributes, and layering it) before the end of the conversation we had about it
20100416 12:26:43< Upthorn> but until tonight I haven't had time to start on the management
20100416 12:27:35< Crab_> cool :) when do you expect to post a new prototype patch ?
20100416 12:27:36< Upthorn> And for some reason I am having difficulty figuring out how to abstract the storage location to allow for situations where it is not being stored in a WML config
20100416 12:28:14< Crab_> Upthorn: well, I think about it this way: we can be sure that the storage location can give us a WML config corresponding to 'current' variable.
20100416 12:28:50< Crab_> Upthorn: so I'd alter the storage format to make sure it's a collection of 'boxes', configs, 1 config per variable.
20100416 12:29:29< Crab_> then, the we can store each box as a string in a DB or as a child of a root config object in ${namespace}.cfg file.
20100416 12:29:37< Upthorn> Ah. I did not consider altering the storage format.
20100416 12:30:06< Crab_> there's a method for 'find me a child of given config which has certain attribute=certain value'
20100416 12:30:29< Crab_> it can be useful to find the 'correct' box in the root config, by it's id
20100416 12:31:42< Upthorn> hrm. I think I'm starting to see the outlines of a solution which doesn't involve changing the way the data looks in ${namespace}.cfg files
20100416 12:31:51< Crab_> Upthorn: ok :)
20100416 12:32:32< Crab_> does it involve creation of a new temporary config objects on the fly, when reading data ?
20100416 12:35:44< Upthorn> I think it does :\
20100416 12:36:25< Crab_> np with that, just asking :)
20100416 12:37:38< Crab_> and, after all, if you abstract that part away, it should be fairly easy to switch  ${namespace}.cfg' format, if the need will arise.
20100416 12:38:27< Crab_> I prefer the 'boxes' solution simply because it allows to attach any additional information to the variables, and looks simpler to implement.
20100416 12:38:50< Crab_> but, it's not a problem if another one is used. keeping current variable format has its good sides, too.
20100416 12:40:38< Upthorn> I think I've thought of a way to attach additional information -- make a new tag [$(varname)] that lives in [variables].
20100416 12:41:07< Upthorn> If I understand correctly, the $ at the start of the name should prevent the user from creating container variables with the same name
20100416 12:41:47< Upthorn> that way you get the "clean" look of the current variable format, and the meta-data capability of the boxes solution
20100416 12:43:10< Upthorn> I would definitely first have to verify that it is completely impossible to get the $ character into a variable name, though.
20100416 12:44:25< Upthorn> and this way the capabilities could be made consistent between global variables and standard wml variables.
20100416 12:45:34< Crab_> it's better to keep tag names simpler, to make sure that our tools are not confused. I'd better use something like ______ instead of $.
20100416 12:45:53< Crab_> (tools - external scripts which try to parse wml)
20100416 12:46:05< Crab_> (or try to look through them without parsing)
20100416 12:48:28< Upthorn> by the way, when I say $(varname), I do not mean that the () would be included. I mean that for info about a variable named some_var, the tag would be [$some_var][/$some_var] -- if that matters
20100416 12:50:57< Upthorn> but yeah it looks like the $ was the issue you had
20100416 12:52:10< Upthorn> and I should probably just concentrate on the abstraction and layering right now.
20100416 12:53:23< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, if you code the abstraction/layering right, it would be easy to extend later on
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20100416 13:14:10< timotei> Crab_, I've finished the changes
20100416 13:14:15< timotei> I will submit the version 2 of the patch
20100416 13:14:16< timotei> ok?
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20100416 13:18:55< Crab_> teaser: ok
20100416 13:19:57-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.191.4] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 13:20:44< orfest> Hi!
20100416 13:21:07< timotei> hey orfest :)
20100416 13:21:15< Crab_> hi, orfest
20100416 13:22:13< orfest> Crab_, Sirp: I forgot to mention yesterday, long ago I wrote 2 caching HTTP-1.0 proxies: Solaris, C++, pthreads. A single-threaded (poll in an infinite loop) and multithreaded (thread per connection)
20100416 13:22:48-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Quit: I ATE'NT DEAD]
20100416 13:22:51< orfest> Crab_, Sirp: also I have Floyd-Warshall algorithm implemented entirely on C++ templates :)
20100416 13:23:22-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 13:25:17< Crab_> orfest: I was once toying with the idea of using Floyd-Warshall for wesnoth ai, for initial map analysis, to find out 'important points' on a map.
20100416 13:26:04< Crab_> (taking into account 'which villages/chokepoints we'll be able to reach first, before our enemy does')
20100416 13:26:40< orfest> such Floyd-Warshall is not practical at all, it works for ~15 vertices, and compiles really long :) it during compilation it constructs O(N^3) classes 
20100416 13:26:48< orfest> and what about that idea?
20100416 13:27:13< orfest> have you succeeded?
20100416 13:27:57< Crab_> well, regular wesnoth's pathfinding uses A*, and it's good for it's purposes. but, it'll take too much time if we want to look for all possible paths through the map, trying to find the areas which are to be 'ours' (to figure out what to recruit).
20100416 13:29:10< Crab_> my initial analysis showed that it'll most probably work, but then it got pushed out to backlog. I've practically forgotten about it until you reminded me about the algorithm
20100416 13:29:52< orfest> what is maximal wesnoth map size?
20100416 13:30:01< orfest> about 30x30?
20100416 13:30:03< Crab_> something like 100x100
20100416 13:30:34< orfest> do you mean vertices are units and villages?
20100416 13:31:02< Crab_> starting locations, keeps, villages [optionally - chokepoints (such as rivers, etc) ]
20100416 13:32:12< orfest> then you are right, it even can work here :)
20100416 13:33:02< orfest> I mean O(N^3) algorithm complexity is not so good, but for <1000 vertices it can work
20100416 13:36:15< Crab_> it's for 'start' mainly. we need to know 'what to initially recruit' to be able to grab all 'our' villages and have right troops where they're needed to contest enemy villages.
20100416 13:37:30< orfest> well, and money is limited, and enemy also can recruit units. things are getting complicated :)
20100416 13:37:32< Crab_> note that different units have different movetype, so there's a need for several runs to collect all data for our and enemy units.
20100416 13:38:14< Crab_> current c++ ai can, more or less, recruit units which 'counter' the enemy 'in the field'.
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20100416 13:38:24< norbert_> Crab_, hi
20100416 13:38:28< Crab_> hi, norbert_
20100416 13:38:56< Crab_> orfest: Dragonking has made a formula_ai code which knows this, and knows the map so it can recruit untis which will 'counter' the enemy on the dominant terrain on the map
20100416 13:39:04< norbert_> still interested in piping Wesnoth data to wsrsw.org?
20100416 13:39:09< Crab_> norbert_: yes
20100416 13:39:11< Crab_> but, the ai is not smart enough to actually send right units to the right terrain
20100416 13:39:52< norbert_> cool; I have time and energy; when/if you do to, let me know how/what via IRC or forum private message, ok?
20100416 13:39:54< Crab_> orfest: e.g., ai looks at map, ai sees lots of water, ai thinks 'ok, I'll recruit fish', ai recruits fish. then ai checks, where the enemy is, it sees the enemy is on land. and the ai happily sends fish to land.
20100416 13:40:17< orfest> :))))
20100416 13:40:21< norbert_> *too
20100416 13:41:08< Crab_> norbert_: cool. I'd say that 'in a week' will be a good time, as most gsoc-related things will be sorted out by then, and I'll have 'free time and energy' :)
20100416 13:41:42< norbert_> Crab_, okay, I probably won't be on IRC much, so private message me on the forum, ok?
20100416 13:43:33< Crab_> agreed
20100416 13:43:46< norbert_> k, bye :)
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20100416 13:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 86 bugs, 265 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100416 13:58:20< Upthorn> Hmm. I think it is getting to the point where I will have to sleep and finish the revised patch when I wake up.
20100416 13:59:28< Ivanovic> yes, sometimes sleeping makes sense and does indeed help
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20100416 14:05:49< timotei> seems SVN knows I want to switch to git, and breaks all of my files
20100416 14:08:32< fendrin> timotei: lol
20100416 14:08:55< timotei> yes, I installed git today to play with it a little
20100416 14:09:08< timotei> and now, it broke my icon overlays
20100416 14:09:12< timotei> context menu
20100416 14:09:15< timotei> some files :))
20100416 14:09:34< timotei> I think trotoise isn't so good
20100416 14:09:57< timotei> btw fendrin, after I'm creting the patch and sendin to Crab_, I'll finish that macro handling part
20100416 14:10:05< timotei> and will ask you to look over it, ok?
20100416 14:10:10< timotei> if you have time, of course
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20100416 14:34:28< Darkas> Crab_: hi
20100416 14:34:40< Darkas> I got one more question
20100416 14:35:01< Darkas> ok, actually, two ;)
20100416 14:35:40< Darkas> first is: how do I check if my movement map is invalid?
20100416 14:36:53< Darkas> and the other: is getting movement maps from readonly_context expensive? or are they just calculated once, and as long as they're valid, the same reference is returned?
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20100416 14:46:53< Crab_> hi, Darkas
20100416 14:47:14< Crab_> the c++ movement map reference is always valid
20100416 14:47:23< Crab_> so,  is getting movement maps from readonly_context is not expensive
20100416 14:48:05< Crab_> to know when they changed, you can use a gamestate_observer object
20100416 14:48:36< Crab_> see src/ai/testing/stage_rca.cpp
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20100416 14:49:40< Crab_> basically, after each gamestate change, an event is fired in the ai::manager
20100416 14:49:52< Crab_> and, classes can register themselves as an observer to that even
20100416 14:49:54< Crab_> *event
20100416 14:50:39< Crab_> by inheriting from an observer interface, which allows to receive callbacks from the ai::manager
20100416 14:51:13< Crab_> you can use a helper object to avoid the need to inherit from an observer interface
20100416 14:51:27< Crab_> basically, create  gamestate_observer gs_o;
20100416 14:51:43< Crab_> then, gs_o.is_gamestate_changed() will tell you if the gamestate has changed
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20100416 14:52:47< Crab_> then, call it's 'reset' method to clear the state
20100416 14:53:00< Crab_> see src/ai/gamestate_observer.?pp
20100416 14:53:56< Crab_> so, if your lua 'movement map getter' is in context of some userdata, you can attach a gamestate_observer to that userdata and use it to check for movement_map validity
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20100416 14:59:41< Darkas> Crab_: I think if the c++ movement maps are always valid, I don't need to check if they've changed anymore
20100416 14:59:49< Darkas> I just 'forward' them to lua
20100416 15:00:18< Darkas> so every call just reads from the c++ movement maps
20100416 15:01:40< Darkas> but I've seen that there are lots of functions that return movement maps... are they different ones?
20100416 15:03:53< Darkas> ah, and one more thing: what were the parameters I had to launch wesnoth with for getting the ai test?
20100416 15:05:12< Crab_> 'so every call just reads from the c++ movement maps' - isn't it slow ?
20100416 15:05:23< Crab_> ./wesnoth -t lua_ai -d
20100416 15:05:27< Darkas> thanks
20100416 15:05:37< Crab_> 'but I've seen that there are lots of functions that return movement maps... are they different ones?' - yes
20100416 15:06:29< Crab_> Darkas: also note that the ai context use a tricky 'diamond-style' inheritance hierarchy.
20100416 15:06:36< Darkas> I don't think so: if I keep the reference to that movement maps, and then I just return the content to lua if it's needed, that shoudln't be slow
20100416 15:07:12< Crab_> Darkas: well, but what about the 'content converted to lua representation' ? the user would need to ask for it each time he wants a new movement map ?
20100416 15:07:27< Crab_> Darkas: so, for each context, each function is present 3 times - once in interface, once in proxy, once in implementation
20100416 15:07:39< CIA-32> silene * r42142 /branches/1.8/src/unit.cpp: 
20100416 15:07:39< CIA-32> Fixed segfault on missing animations introduced while fixing bug #15787.
20100416 15:07:39< CIA-32> Backport of trunk revision 42140.
20100416 15:07:40< CIA-32> silene * r42143 /branches/1.8/src/unit.cpp: 
20100416 15:07:40< CIA-32> Fixed null pointer dereference when redrawing a unit without any standing animation. (Fix for bug #15787.)
20100416 15:07:40< CIA-32> Backport of trunk revision 42141.
20100416 15:08:29< Crab_> Darkas: generally, it would be better if those 'parts' that the user has asked were 'always valid, on-demand generated'.
20100416 15:08:45< Darkas> Crab_; that's what I want to do
20100416 15:08:49< Crab_> Darkas: good.
20100416 15:08:57< Crab_> then I'll wait for the code :)
20100416 15:09:31< Darkas> Crab_: there'll be a table, the values are accessible through __index, and if you ask for one, it comes directly from c++
20100416 15:10:11< Crab_> comes directly from the c++ if the lua representation is invalid, regenerating and caching the lua representation ?
20100416 15:10:57< Crab_> e.g., if I would ask for possible moves of my leader 20 times in a row, without doing any gamestate-changing actions, will it return same (cached) lua values, or will it translate from c++ each time ?
20100416 15:11:38< Darkas> I think for now it will translate every time, it does seem rather hard to do the caching
20100416 15:11:52< Darkas> but if I've got some time left, I'll implement that too
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20100416 15:12:57< Crab_> Darkas: it's ok if you don't implement this from the start. but it'll be a good thing later on.
20100416 15:13:05< CIA-32> esr * r42144 /trunk/data/themes/experimental.cfg: Marking this "Wont Fix", as themes are scheduled to go away when GUI2 lands.
20100416 15:13:26< Darkas> Crab_: yes
20100416 15:13:36< Crab_> Darkas: it's not that hard (one of the ways is to do that via keeping a gamestate_observer around)
20100416 15:14:33< Crab_> Darkas: note that, in lua ai code, you're actually not in the context of 'readonly_context', you're in the context of 'lua ai engine'
20100416 15:15:04< Darkas> Crab_: yes, but I already have enough work, so I'm just not sure if I could to that today, but it should be no problem if I got more time
20100416 15:15:23< Darkas> Crab_: so expect it later
20100416 15:15:25< Crab_> ok, as I've said, it's ok if you don't implement this from the start.
20100416 15:15:33< Crab_> good :)
20100416 15:15:48< Crab_> as I really want to see the patch today...
20100416 15:16:05< Crab_> (till the very end of the day, that is)
20100416 15:16:11< Darkas> I think that should be no problem
20100416 15:16:15< Crab_> cool :)
20100416 15:16:47< Crab_> so, feel free to mark things as //@todo , if you want to fix something or want to show something.
20100416 15:17:21< Crab_> btw, the oldest @todo in wesnoth.code is from 2003, so, as you can see, there's no hurry to actually implement them :)
20100416 15:17:30< shadowmaster> esr: re 42144 that will take too long to go away
20100416 15:18:04< shadowmaster> I don't think GUI2 will completely replace the old GUI framework(s) until at least another development cycle
20100416 15:18:09< Darkas> Crab_: ok :)
20100416 15:18:46< esr> shadowmaster: Could be, but there's also a reason that theme is called "Experimental".  I don't feel a lot of preesure to fix it.
20100416 15:20:06< esr> I would evaluate a bug in the default theme quite differently.
20100416 15:20:27< shadowmaster> esr: hey, it worked pretty well for me in 1.0
20100416 15:20:29< shadowmaster> and 1.2
20100416 15:21:04< shadowmaster> for a time I preferred it over the default theme, when it was still maintained.
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20100416 16:24:12< King_Elendil> Sirp, you're David right, the person responsible for this amazing game?
20100416 16:29:56< Soliton> he is.
20100416 16:31:15< King_Elendil> that's so cool. When I said he needed a vacation, I didn't know he was the Dave.
20100416 16:31:24< Soliton> esr: it's not "Won't fix", it's "Don't care, awaiting patches".
20100416 16:31:50< esr> Heh.
20100416 16:31:52< Soliton> esr: maybe actually add such a category and make wesboth not count it...
20100416 16:32:20< esr> Feel free, if you know the Gna magic.  I don't.
20100416 16:32:39< Soliton> i think Ivanovic has to do it.
20100416 16:33:09< esr> Or maybe we should just say "Awaiting patches" in the comment trail.
20100416 16:33:32< esr> E.g., we  won't fix, but you can.
20100416 16:33:54< Soliton> fine with me. that's what i would have responded if i weren't too lazy.
20100416 16:34:56< Soliton> might still be nice to make wesbot ignore those which needs a new category, i guess.
20100416 16:36:42< esr> Soliton: Comment posted.
20100416 16:36:50< Soliton> thanks.
20100416 16:41:10< Darkas> Crab_: if I return all the positions as {x = .., y = ..}, {x = .., y= ..}, ... would that be ok?
20100416 16:46:06< Crab_> Darkas: well, silene was against returning locations as such  {x = .., y = ..} tables, for reasons of speed. but, of course, you can code it any way you like and then talk with him and see what will be the best way to return data.
20100416 16:46:46< Darkas> Crab_: ok, then I'll do it like this first. I just don't have any other good ideas of returning that data
20100416 16:46:53< Crab_> ok
20100416 16:48:24< Darkas> Crab_: do you also know a good way of testing the code? I know I could just ask for some data, but I don't know which input gives which output
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20100416 16:54:57< RLutz> http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29588 anyone got any idea what's up with these gremlins? :(
20100416 16:56:03< Crab_> Darkas: set a map with only one unit on it, move this unit so it has 1-2 mp left
20100416 16:56:09< Crab_> Darkas: then use formula ai function my_moves
20100416 16:56:18< Crab_> it'll give you a list of locations which you can move
20100416 16:56:40< Crab_> also, set up lua ai as ai for side1
20100416 16:56:51< Crab_> then, droid your side via ':droid 1' command
20100416 16:57:00< Crab_> the ai will start playing 'as you'
20100416 16:57:12< Crab_> then, if you add any debug code to the ai turn, you'll see it
20100416 16:57:26< Crab_> for example, you can make the ai print the value of srcdst map 'once'
20100416 16:57:57< Crab_> it'll be small since with several moves left and one unit, not much moves are remaining.
20100416 16:58:41< Crab_> Darkas: alternate way (is better): set up a debug function  "evaluate_as_ai" which will evaluate a given function in the ai context (exactly as stage is evaluated)
20100416 16:59:19< Crab_> Darkas: (evaluate in context of ai of current side)
20100416 16:59:39< Darkas> Crab_: the alternate way seems even shorter ;)
20100416 16:59:45< Crab_> Darkas: that way, you'll be able to put yourself into any situation you wish, and then, ask the ai to evaluate something for you
20100416 17:00:02< Crab_> Darkas: if the code is set up right, hot-redeploying should work, too.
20100416 17:00:12< Crab_> Darkas: e.g., 'change code, reload, try again' stuff
20100416 17:00:17< Darkas> Crab_: hot-redeploying?
20100416 17:00:23< Darkas> ah, ok
20100416 17:00:29< Crab_> making changes in .lua files be noticed as soon as possible
20100416 17:00:38< Crab_> note that if you're human side #1, then ai for side #1 is allowed to do moves.
20100416 17:00:41< Darkas> even at runtime?
20100416 17:01:07< Crab_> Darkas: wesnoth.dofile is runtime
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20100416 17:01:29< Crab_> Darkas:  wesnoth.dofile is runtime, wesnoth.require does caching, but is also runtime
20100416 17:01:58< Crab_> Darkas: in general, we should allow a way to reload the lua ai code as fast as possible, without closing wesnoth. that will be the main advantage over c++ ai - speed of development, trying new things
20100416 17:02:06< Crab_> Darkas: good luck, I've got to go.
20100416 17:02:13< Crab_> will be in +4 to +5
20100416 17:02:32< Darkas> Crab_: ok, but I'm not sure if I'm still there then
20100416 17:03:11< Crab_> see the source code for wesnoth.dofile and see, when it'll notice the code change in lua external file
20100416 17:03:14< Darkas> I'll simply post the patch at patches.wesnoth.org, if I don't manage to get svn access until then, ok?
20100416 17:03:19< Crab_> ok
20100416 17:03:38< Crab_> in general, wesnoth.dofile shouldn't require reload of wesnoth
20100416 17:03:51< Darkas> ok, that's good
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20100416 17:10:31< timotei> at last I entered freenode
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20100416 17:25:30< RLutz> Yea, I'm officially out of ideas... I guess gcc in 10.04 is hosed up, if anyone is curious: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29588
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20100416 17:34:33< shadowmaster> wow, how do I find what game a person is in anymore :|
20100416 17:34:58< shadowmaster> I can't manage to double click on the nickname in time before the list scrolls back to the top
20100416 17:35:39< shadowmaster> ah *phew*
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20100416 18:00:13< timotei> any WML known-er around?
20100416 18:00:23< timotei> if I import the wml files from a folder:
20100416 18:00:29< timotei> {mywml}
20100416 18:00:33< timotei> no _main.cfg in it
20100416 18:00:43< timotei> I have: file1.cfg and file2.cfg.
20100416 18:00:54< timotei> If I define a macro in file1, is it seen in file2?
20100416 18:00:58< shadowmaster> both will get included in alphabetical (?) order
20100416 18:01:12< shadowmaster> so yeah, theoretically a macro in file 1 will be dfined at the point file 2 is preprocessed
20100416 18:01:18< shadowmaster> *defined
20100416 18:01:26< timotei> good
20100416 18:01:32< shadowmaster> although IIRC it doesn't really matter until expansion time
20100416 18:01:59< timotei> well, yeah, but I need to do some macro handling, since I'm working on the eclipse plugin
20100416 18:02:01< shadowmaster> (I'm not sure about that- it's still good practice to not assume too many things about the preprocessing order)
20100416 18:02:06< timotei> and need to develop a flexible system for this
20100416 18:02:13< timotei> ok, thanks anyway
20100416 18:02:24< timotei> maybe zookeeper will answer when it is around
20100416 18:02:42< timotei> or anyone who knows enough:D
20100416 18:03:00< shadowmaster> silene should know about the C++ side of things
20100416 18:03:06< timotei> ye
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20100416 18:25:12< zookeeper> timotei, hmh?
20100416 18:25:45< zookeeper> yeah, it's in alphabetical order IIRC
20100416 18:26:35< zookeeper> but still, i'd never advice anyone to rely on that
20100416 18:29:08< timotei> ok, I'm back
20100416 18:29:15< timotei> no, the part with macro visibility
20100416 18:31:30< zookeeper> i thought inclusion order and macro visibility are the same thing
20100416 18:38:12< timotei> ah
20100416 18:38:13< timotei> ok
20100416 18:39:45< timotei> zookeeper,  you know who can tell me for sure?
20100416 18:40:27 * shadowmaster thinks he said something above
20100416 18:40:57< zookeeper> timotei, as he said, i'd ask silene
20100416 18:41:10< timotei> oh, sorry, didn't saw that
20100416 18:41:44< timotei> I think I thought of something else 
20100416 18:41:50< timotei> I need to sleep
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20100416 19:11:54< pokhbocee> hey all
20100416 19:12:07< timotei> hello pokhbocee 
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20100416 19:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 85 bugs, 265 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100416 20:24:29< Bob_The_Mighty> anyone know how to stop the screen scrolling to leaders at the start of every turn?
20100416 20:26:21< Gambit> Not via WML.
20100416 20:26:26< Gambit> But there is a setting in preferences.
20100416 20:26:35< Gambit> If that's what you mean.
20100416 20:26:53< Bob_The_Mighty> ah, enable scroll tracking?
20100416 20:26:57< Gambit> Yes.
20100416 20:27:12< Gambit> But that also affects moving units I'm afraid.
20100416 20:27:19< Gambit> At least IIRC.
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20100416 20:30:27< Crab_> Bob_The_Mighty: no, there's not a way to do that from WML, apart from removing the leader :) ( but it's easy to add such functionality)
20100416 20:31:02< Crab_> hi, timotei
20100416 20:31:09< timotei> hello Crab_ 
20100416 20:31:11< Crab_> timotei: I've read through your new patch
20100416 20:31:19< Crab_> looks good enough to try it
20100416 20:31:21< timotei> great
20100416 20:31:22< Crab_> will do so.
20100416 20:31:26< timotei> okey
20100416 20:31:43< timotei> you have some time? I was wondering about how to do that wml JIT thingy 
20100416 20:31:48< timotei> fendrin, around?
20100416 20:31:56< Crab_> yes, I do have time atm
20100416 20:32:27< timotei> so, I've looked through the config.cpp class and saw 2 very cool methods (I admit, I've read them on mobile phone)
20100416 20:32:31< timotei> there is:
20100416 20:32:58< timotei> getconfig config::get_diff(const config& c)
20100416 20:33:08< timotei> void config::apply_diff(const config& diff, bool track /* = false */)
20100416 20:33:36< timotei> so, basically, when wesnoth is in debug mode, at one keypress, we could reload our current file, get the diff, and apply it on our current WML
20100416 20:33:54< timotei> this is just theoretically for the moment
20100416 20:34:08< Crab_> timotei: well, the diff is what vs what ?
20100416 20:34:10< timotei> or, should we use jit just for some thing in the WML file?
20100416 20:34:27< timotei> the diff between current runned version, and the modified one on the disk
20100416 20:34:35< Crab_> timotei: and you want to apply it to what ?
20100416 20:34:54< Crab_> to the 'current version' ?
20100416 20:35:37< timotei> to the current game. but here is a little problem. there are things that can't get "patched"
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20100416 20:36:00< timotei> like things that already have been done. for example an event that's fired only one time. right?
20100416 20:37:35< Crab_> I think that it's better to work with individual items, those that you know how to patch
20100416 20:37:42< Crab_> e.g., with events
20100416 20:38:04< Darkas> Crab_: I'm having some problems with functions of readonly_context
20100416 20:38:04< timotei> yes, but then, again, I can use the diff thing, and only parse the modifications, isn't it ok?
20100416 20:38:32< Crab_> timotei: yes, it's ok if you automate the 'what to reload' part.
20100416 20:38:43< Darkas> Crab_: I've got all the main code, it's compiling but untested, because I need more background of all those functions
20100416 20:38:53< Crab_> Darkas: ok, ask questions :)
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20100416 20:39:32< Darkas> I was starting with readonly_context::calculate_possible_moves
20100416 20:39:37< Crab_> timotei: but, basically, it's the second step. the first step is to code the function which takes an [event] config and replaces the current event with the same 'hot redeploy id' with the new one.
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20100416 20:40:05< Crab_> Darkas: in general, you should call this function only if you need something that is not covered by existing movement map accessors
20100416 20:40:17< timotei> so... the events should have an extra attribute, by which are ... "redeployed"?
20100416 20:40:38< Crab_> timotei: I think 'yes'
20100416 20:40:46< Darkas> Crab_: so I should rather make all those other functions accessible in lua?
20100416 20:40:51< Crab_> timotei: imagine that you show up a list of events in gamestate inspectors
20100416 20:41:22< Crab_> Darkas: well, we need to design a easy-to-use ai. first priority is getting basic and necessary functions right.
20100416 20:41:26< Darkas> Crab_: like readonly_context::get_dstsrc?
20100416 20:41:29< Crab_> Darkas: yes
20100416 20:41:42< Darkas> Crab_: ok, that makes it easier ;)
20100416 20:42:11< Darkas> Crab_: I can write one or two of these, but then I got to leave
20100416 20:42:12< Crab_> basically, these 4:      get_srcdst, get_dstsrc, get_enemy_srcdst, get_enemy_dstsrc
20100416 20:42:25< Darkas> ok
20100416 20:42:29< Crab_> then go for 1) get_srcdst 
20100416 20:42:31< Darkas> then I'll hurry up
20100416 20:42:36< Crab_> ok
20100416 20:42:52< Crab_> srcdst is a multimap from sources to destinations
20100416 20:44:43< Darkas> Crab_: ok, I think I can make all 4, it's just copy & paste ;)
20100416 20:45:31< Crab_> ok
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20100416 20:46:16< Crab_> for example, srcdst can be exposed via  something  like  ai.get_moves(x,y)   function, which returns a list of valid moves for unit at x,y . alternatively, it can be used as ai.get_moves(U) , where U is unit.
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20100416 20:46:58< mordante> servus
20100416 20:47:02< Crab_> hi, mordante
20100416 20:47:10< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20100416 20:48:17< Crab_> timotei: so,  (continuing) imagine that you show up a list of events in gamestate inspector. then, you restore the preprocessor state and parse the original files for those events.
20100416 20:48:32< Crab_> timotei: then, you'll have two lists, 'current events' and 'new events'
20100416 20:48:49< timotei> mhh
20100416 20:48:58< timotei> let me read again about the wml events
20100416 20:49:00< Crab_> then, you need to compare the two lists
20100416 20:49:33< Crab_> if you have ids, the compare becomes much easier.
20100416 20:49:57< Crab_> you'll be able to tell - ok, those are new ,those are gone those have changed.
20100416 20:50:20< Darkas> Crab_: I'm finished
20100416 20:50:32< Crab_> Darkas: good. 
20100416 20:50:35< Crab_> show it :)
20100416 20:50:38< Darkas> Crab_: but the problem is that it's completely untested
20100416 20:50:58< Darkas> Crab_: I'll post the patch on pastebin, wait a second
20100416 20:51:04< Crab_> even at the 'does it work or segfault?' level?
20100416 20:53:14< Darkas> Crab_: I didn't write any tests, but I can compile and see if the initialization causes a segfault
20100416 20:53:55< Crab_> if you have time, do so. if no, I'll try to find a good way to test it for you.
20100416 20:54:10< Darkas> for this, I still have enough time :)
20100416 20:54:16< Crab_> good, thanks
20100416 20:55:22< Darkas> Crab_: I've tried the ai test, and everything's ok there
20100416 20:57:04< Darkas> Crab_: if there are any problem with that patch, I'll have enough time to fix that tomorrow :) (and also to add things of course)
20100416 20:57:46< Darkas> Crab_: http://pastebin.ca/1863622
20100416 20:58:06< Crab_> ok
20100416 20:58:55< Crab_> (note that wesnoth's uses 3 main buildsystems, so when committing, at least 3 files to modify)
20100416 20:59:21< Darkas> Crab_: ah, right
20100416 20:59:21< Crab_> for scons, for cmake (thus, for MSVC9, too), for autotools
20100416 21:00:35< timotei> Crab_, if I use inspect it doesn't show up any events in there
20100416 21:00:41< Darkas> Crab_: where can I find the file lists for autotools and scons?
20100416 21:00:45< timotei> isn't it implmeneted, or there is no event?
20100416 21:00:53< Darkas> Crab_: it seems like you don't use Makefile.am?
20100416 21:01:09< Crab_> Darkas: I use scons
20100416 21:01:31< Crab_> src/Makefile.am, src/SConscript
20100416 21:01:39< Darkas> Crab_: no, I mean that wesnoth doesn't use Makefile.am ;)
20100416 21:01:43< Darkas> Crab_: thanks
20100416 21:02:03< Crab_> well, why do you think it's not used ? it can be used to compile wesnoth, afair.
20100416 21:03:39< Darkas> Crab_: no, I meant that /Makefile.am doesn't contain the file lists
20100416 21:03:57< Darkas> and thus isn't used for the file list ;)
20100416 21:04:07< Crab_> there's src/Makefile.am
20100416 21:04:13< loonycyborg> src/Makefile.am definitely does.
20100416 21:04:20< Darkas> ok
20100416 21:04:36< Darkas> ok, changes are done there too
20100416 21:04:38< Crab_> Darkas: ok, reading through the patch..
20100416 21:05:24< Crab_> Darkas: I don't like the fact that you iterate over a map to find an element in it.
20100416 21:05:28< Crab_> Darkas: why it's done ?
20100416 21:05:59< Darkas> Crab_: I didn't found another way for gettings all the elements
20100416 21:06:11< Darkas> Crab_: I've only worked with normal maps before, not multimaps
20100416 21:06:45< Crab_> there's equal_range
20100416 21:06:52< Darkas> Crab_: and I've looked at cplusplus.com, and this one was the only one I could find
20100416 21:07:07< Crab_> equal_range - 'Finds a range containing all elements whose key is k.'
20100416 21:07:22< Darkas> Crab_: ok, I'll remember this
20100416 21:07:24< Darkas> thanks
20100416 21:09:21< Crab_> ok, it looks like that the code might work. I like the fact that it's cleanly in a separate file. 
20100416 21:09:48< Crab_> but, of course, I'd like to have caching and autoinvalidation :))
20100416 21:10:06< Darkas> Crab_: yeah, of course :)
20100416 21:10:17< Crab_> since it's (relatively) easy to just expose the data, it's harder to make it fast-to-get and usable.
20100416 21:10:23< Crab_> but thanks for this prototype, as well.
20100416 21:10:26< Darkas> well, I got to leave now
20100416 21:10:30< Crab_> ok.
20100416 21:10:34< Darkas> you're welcome :)
20100416 21:10:35< Darkas> bye
20100416 21:10:35< Crab_> any luck with getting ssh to work ?
20100416 21:10:40< Darkas> no :(
20100416 21:10:43< Crab_> bye
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20100416 21:21:02< Jacob_> Hello
20100416 21:21:07< Crab_> hi, Jacob_
20100416 21:21:21< Jacob_> Hey Crab_
20100416 21:27:24< Jacob_> The 8x8 font is the only one used by the game?
20100416 21:30:08< Crab_> I think 'no', because there can be different font sizes in wesnoth. but, I'm not the right person to ask about it. try asking mordante, he might know better.
20100416 21:30:33< Jacob_> Ok
20100416 21:30:42< mordante> Jacob_, no we use a lot of font sizes 
20100416 21:31:06< mordante> and we use true type fonts so 8x8 is a kind of misnomer for our fonts
20100416 21:31:27< Jacob_> I only found the 8x8 font in the image file
20100416 21:31:54< mordante> which file?
20100416 21:32:01< Jacob_> Hold on
20100416 21:32:14< Jacob_> I had it a little bit earlier
20100416 21:33:17< mordante> src/font.hpp starting at line 67 defines the common font sizes (I'm still interested in the file)
20100416 21:34:30< Jacob_> Hmm it was in here somewhere
20100416 21:35:12< Jacob_> Got it
20100416 21:35:24< Jacob_> images/misc
20100416 21:35:34< Jacob_> font8x8.png
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20100416 21:36:37< mordante> ah no idea I think you uncovered an ancient relic
20100416 21:36:46< Jacob_> I did :o
20100416 21:37:12< Jacob_> So this should probably be removed?
20100416 21:38:19< mordante> probably yes, esr does your script also check images/misc regarding Jacob_'s question 10 minutes ago
20100416 21:38:32-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 21:39:27< mordante> Ivanovic, I've little time tonight and still catching up, probably won't have time until tomorrow before I can reply
20100416 21:39:47< mordante> unless you really want an earlier reply
20100416 21:40:24-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 21:41:36< timotei> fendrin, I've updated a bit my proposal page with some ideas, maybe you want to take a look over them:)
20100416 21:45:38< timotei> Crab_, I
20100416 21:45:42< timotei> I'm going now
20100416 21:45:49< timotei> tell me, what should I do next?:)
20100416 21:46:11< timotei> something that has value for you for example, if you give me marks also :P
20100416 21:46:29< Crab_> marks ?
20100416 21:46:32< timotei> next in the meaning: next days
20100416 21:46:44-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100416 21:46:46< timotei> well, I've read on google page, that mentor give grades for applications
20100416 21:46:48< timotei> :)
20100416 21:47:02< timotei> and based on that they+you select the first <n> students
20100416 21:47:33< timotei> Student ranking/scoring deadline
20100416 21:47:36< timotei> on 21 April
20100416 21:47:57-!- Bob_The_Mighty [~chatzilla@cpc4-brig15-0-0-cust904.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 21:48:43< Crab_> ah, those little points :)
20100416 21:50:26-!- allefant [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 21:50:49< Crab_> timotei: a small task - add a new command-line option for wesnoth, which will make it invoke the preprocessor to store a preprocessed text file, parsed from a given wml directory, then exit.
20100416 21:51:18< Crab_> for extra fun, do it on all 'data' directory, and feed the output to wmllint, see what will happen.
20100416 21:51:38-!- allefant [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Client Quit]
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20100416 21:52:17< timotei> a preprocessed "text file" means, an existing .cfg file that was read from the file system, memorized, and then outputed how it is stored in memory by the preprocessor?
20100416 21:52:56-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Quit: Got to go, I'm in a hurry so bye.]
20100416 21:52:57< Crab_> means, an existing directory containing .cfg files, that was read from the file system, memorized, and then outputted after the macroses are expanded.
20100416 21:53:09< timotei> ok :)
20100416 21:53:26< Crab_> wesbot: seen lfernando
20100416 21:53:27< wesbot> Crab_: The person with the nick lfernando last spoke 1d 6h ago.  1d 6h ago they left with the message: Quit: Ex-Chat
20100416 21:53:37< timotei> good night everyone
20100416 21:53:46< timotei> bye Crab_ 
20100416 21:54:01-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.191.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100416 21:54:25< mordante> I'm off night
20100416 21:54:29< Crab_> night, mordante
20100416 21:54:46-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100416 21:55:59< Bob_The_Mighty> how does one define minimum starting gold in a campaign scenario?
20100416 21:59:20< Crab_> Bob_The_Mighty: I don't think that this is possible via a side definition. but, prestart event would be able to modify gold if it's less then minimum.
20100416 22:00:55-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-188-132-247.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:01:40< Crab_> ah no, sorry, "gold" in side can be used for that
20100416 22:03:36< Crab_> it depends on the value of carryover_add in the previous scenario victory event. if it's set to "yes", then carryover is added on top of "gold" given in [side]
20100416 22:04:02-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:04:38< Crab_> otherwise, maximum value  from 'carryover' and '"gold" given in [side]' is used.
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20100416 22:08:11-!- icelus [~ed@cpc9-sgyl11-0-0-cust29.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:08:27< Crab_> hi, icelus
20100416 22:08:35< icelus> hey Crab_ 
20100416 22:15:47< Bob_The_Mighty> doesn't it always mention 'minimum starting gold' as if it were a setting?
20100416 22:16:46< Gambit> Yeah... minimum possible.
20100416 22:17:14< Gambit> Meaning if your carryover is below the minimum it uses the minimum (defined by "gold=x").
20100416 22:17:21-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Quit: Got to go, I'm in a hurry so bye.]
20100416 22:18:28< Crab_> yes, the C++ code uses something like http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/RxEDhfit
20100416 22:19:48< Crab_> so, if the flag 'add gold' is set, old gold is added to minimum starting gold, otherwise if old gold is more than minimum starting gold, old gold value is used.
20100416 22:20:31-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:27:36-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:28:22< boucman> hey all
20100416 22:29:03< Crab_> hi, boucman
20100416 22:29:53-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Quit: Lahkun]
20100416 22:31:49-!- lfernando [~luiz@201-42-116-71.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:32:17-!- pokhbocee [~pokhbocee@ws37.cs.drexel.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:32:25< lfernando> hi
20100416 22:32:33< Crab_> hi, lfernando
20100416 22:32:36< Crab_> hi, pokhbocee
20100416 22:32:47< pokhbocee> hey Crab_
20100416 22:33:05< Crab_> pokhbocee: how it's going ? were you able to integrate your code with wesnoth's ai components ?
20100416 22:33:13< pokhbocee> no
20100416 22:33:31< lfernando> *crab_multithread.begin()*
20100416 22:33:39< pokhbocee> i couldnt take any info from wesnoth
20100416 22:33:39< lfernando> =-D
20100416 22:33:45< Crab_> lfernando: :)
20100416 22:34:14< pokhbocee> i need a test class that i can run on wesnoth i guess
20100416 22:34:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: well, have you looked into any of the other wesnoth stages ? e.g., see /wesnoth/src/ai/testing/stage_fallback.cpp
20100416 22:34:47< pokhbocee> or have to make my code run within the wesnoth
20100416 22:35:31< Crab_> lfernando: how it's going with the persistence prototype improvement ?
20100416 22:36:16< lfernando> crab_: good
20100416 22:36:17< pokhbocee> Crab_ : yes i saw these but idk how to use them
20100416 22:36:30< Crab_> lfernando: that's good :)
20100416 22:36:33< pokhbocee> is it same as lua scernarios?
20100416 22:36:52< Crab_> pokhbocee: see data/ai/ais/default_ai.cfg
20100416 22:37:42< Crab_> pokhbocee: note the 'name=' parameter
20100416 22:37:50-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:38:24< lfernando> let me ask something(you can answer when you're done with pokh's doubt)
20100416 22:38:25< Crab_> pokhbocee: then, see src/ai/registry.cpp, see static register_stage_factory<testing_ai_default::fallback_to_other_ai> fallback_to_other_ai_factory("testing_ai_default::fallback");
20100416 22:38:33< Crab_> lfernando: ok, ask :)
20100416 22:38:47< Crab_> pokhbocee: as you see, a string is mapped to c++ class.
20100416 22:39:33< Crab_> pokhbocee: so, if your ai has [stage] name=XXX [/stage], and in src/ai/registry.cpp you associate  that XXX with a c++ stage, then your ai will have a turn sequence consisting of this your c++ stage
20100416 22:41:17< lfernando> I'm taking a look at FR #15522
20100416 22:41:21< lfernando> on a design level
20100416 22:41:52< Crab_> wesbot: bug 15522
20100416 22:41:52< wesbot> Bug #15522  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100416 22:41:52< wesbot> Summary: WML to adjust scenario music volume
20100416 22:41:52< wesbot> Original submission: I propose having a key or tag, perhaps under the [message
20100416 22:41:55< wesbot> ] or [sound] tag, which would quiet the music volume. I suggest quieting it as a
20100416 22:41:58< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?15522
20100416 22:42:07< lfernando> there is a function called set_music_volume() on preferences.cpp
20100416 22:42:24< lfernando> it receives as argument an int
20100416 22:42:52< lfernando> but it doesn't check for negative values or big values or anything
20100416 22:42:58< lfernando> so, for example
20100416 22:43:12< lfernando> I can use set_music_volume(-2345) and it will work
20100416 22:43:37< Jacob_> What would it do?
20100416 22:43:43< lfernando> and when I do that I  can read "music_volume=-2345" on preferences
20100416 22:43:54< Jacob_> Set it to 0?
20100416 22:44:04< Crab_> lfernando: and what do you think about set_sound_volume in sound.cpp ?
20100416 22:44:21< Crab_> sound.cpp +822
20100416 22:44:43< lfernando> crab_: that function does the checks I mentioned
20100416 22:45:47< Crab_> ok. so, what is the question ? :)
20100416 22:45:53< lfernando> on runtime, I never noticed any bugs on having "weird" values on music_volume
20100416 22:45:56< pokhbocee> Crab_: i was thinking maybe i should create my own objects and than work on them, that would speed up a lot
20100416 22:46:32< pokhbocee> Crab_: but if u want it to see only integrated to wesnoth, i will keep working on getting info from wesnoth
20100416 22:46:38< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, but you need to integrate your work with wesnoth. you're free to create your own representation, but, to simulate combats and such, you'll need to get back to wesnoth's units, isn't it ?
20100416 22:46:45< lfernando> so do you think it's okay to have these weird values?
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20100416 22:47:59< pokhbocee> oh yes, but i thought i have really limited time, so to show you an ai work, i can make it that way and than integrate it into wesnoth
20100416 22:48:05< lfernando> that is more of a design question, there is no absolute "right" or "wrong" 
20100416 22:48:14< lfernando> just wanted o have an opinion =)
20100416 22:48:20< lfernando> *to
20100416 22:48:48< Crab_> pokhbocee: yes, the time is very limited, if we talk about GSoC. 
20100416 22:49:05< Crab_> pokhbocee: but, if your ai work is good, we'll try to integrate it in wesnoth, gsoc or not
20100416 22:49:17< Crab_> contributions are always welcome
20100416 22:49:38< Crab_> lfernando: yes, I think it's ok. since if we add extra checks, we'll duplicate functionality
20100416 22:50:40< Crab_> lfernando: any other questions :) ?
20100416 22:50:41< lfernando> Crab_: ok =)
20100416 22:50:43< pokhbocee> Crab_: i am confused. :D
20100416 22:51:20< pokhbocee> Crab_: which way do you want me to do? if you want to see it now or tomorrow, i will use some stub objects, since to integrate it may require more time than that
20100416 22:51:31< lfernando> no, that's all for now, thanks Crab_
20100416 22:51:58-!- noy_ [~Noy@70.70.252.189] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100416 22:52:00< Crab_> pokhbocee: now or tomorrow is better than on monday :)
20100416 22:52:41< lfernando> Jacob_: that function changes music_volume on game and on the preferences file
20100416 22:52:58< pokhbocee> Crab_: ok than i will do it by creating my objects, so you can see my ai work, and than i can integrate it to wesnoth. Coz i wanna show you my work before its too late :D.
20100416 22:53:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: good :)
20100416 22:53:29< Jacob_> I was wondering what effect it would have on volume
20100416 22:53:32< Crab_> lfernando: can you join #wesnoth-mentor for a while ?
20100416 22:53:38< pokhbocee> Crab_: so i will finish this with my fake objects and than show you, if u like it ill implement in wesnoth
20100416 22:53:41< lfernando> yes, sure
20100416 22:53:51< pokhbocee> Crab_: what do you say?
20100416 22:54:04< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, I'll be here late on saturday, i'll check your patch
20100416 22:54:54< Jacob_> Would it set to 0, or act like an unsigned 
20100416 22:55:02< Jacob_> And loop back
20100416 22:56:40< pokhbocee> Crab_: i mean would it be enough to show my work to just do it in a separate project for now?
20100416 22:57:07< Crab_> pokhbocee: it would be better than nothing. but I would definitely prefer to see a solution integrated with wesnoth.
20100416 22:58:06-!- Shuger [~Shuger@acry162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 22:58:29< Crab_> hi, Shuger
20100416 22:58:37< Shuger> hi
20100416 22:59:55< Shuger> Crab_, how many applicants total have you got?
20100416 23:00:21< Crab_> Shuger: 22, according to the wiki
20100416 23:00:41< Shuger> quite a few, how many last year?
20100416 23:00:57< Crab_> something like 35
20100416 23:03:35< Shuger> interesting, i suspected there would be more every year as to increase of gsoc popularity and computer science in general
20100416 23:03:56< Shuger> then again, quality is what's counts i guess
20100416 23:04:54< noy_> I don't think we have as exciting proposals as last year
20100416 23:05:15< pokhbocee> Crab_: but it has to be soon. so ill do it this way for now. to finish it much earlier, then ill implement it in wesnoth again
20100416 23:05:17< noy_> we offered some more compelling areas, like with the AI 
20100416 23:05:28< Ivanovic> the average level of the proposals this year is higher
20100416 23:05:44< Ivanovic> since most students this year managed to join irc and at least talk a little about their ideas
20100416 23:05:53< Crab_> pokhbocee: ok, let it be so.
20100416 23:06:10< noy_> Thats true, then again that might be more familiarity with the GSOC program in general
20100416 23:08:19< Shuger> noy_, what where the most interesting ideas last year?
20100416 23:08:23< Shuger> *were
20100416 23:08:44< noy_> Well the AI ones were interesting, As was working on the GUI
20100416 23:08:50< noy_> for the lobby
20100416 23:09:22< CIA-32> noyga * r42145 /branches/1.8/ (8 files in 8 dirs): French translation update
20100416 23:09:30< noy_> I think it drew in more people than what we propsed this year.
20100416 23:11:15< noy_> With stuff like boost, or the alliance system
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20100416 23:12:12-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100416 23:12:42< Ivanovic> the proposals we added this year (at least several of them) can have a big impact on game mechanics
20100416 23:12:50< Ivanovic> (world persistance and the alliance system)
20100416 23:13:17< Ivanovic> where the stuff from last year was more ai centric and more "techinical"
20100416 23:15:24< noy_> wesbot: seen endercoaster?
20100416 23:15:24< wesbot> noy_: The person with the nick endercoaster last spoke 4d 19h ago.  1d 18h ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
20100416 23:16:17< noy_> weirdly enough I don't consider world persistance as "gameplay" dependent... compared to whiteboard or alliance
20100416 23:16:50< Ivanovic> oh, it enables huge new possibilities
20100416 23:16:59< noy_> you can do it, and it will have major effects, but you don't need to be as plugged into gameplay development as those other areas
20100416 23:17:31< Crab_> and more importantly, it's easier to plug it out :)
20100416 23:18:10< noy_> absolutely 
20100416 23:18:34< noy_> I'm just saying its more of a technical development than a gameplay one
20100416 23:22:31< CIA-32> noyga * r42146 /trunk/ (8 files in 8 dirs): French translation update
20100416 23:24:06< icelus> so here's a random c++ question
20100416 23:24:23< icelus> what i wanted to do was have an array of buttons that i could pass around
20100416 23:24:43< icelus> but i can't figure out a way to do that that isn't horrible
20100416 23:24:50< icelus> i.e. once you go beyond a bare array
20100416 23:25:00< icelus> i can't find any way of passing in buttons to some kind of owner
20100416 23:25:03< icelus> that could manage them
20100416 23:26:00< Crab_> I'd look at the lifetime of that 'pass around' thing first
20100416 23:26:12< icelus> well that's how i got here in the first place
20100416 23:26:34< Crab_> e.g., if all that happens 'in context' of a particular c++ object lifetime, you can attach those buttons (or a manager for them) to that c++ object.
20100416 23:26:36< icelus> at the moment the buttons for the storyscreen are shared between all parts of the display
20100416 23:27:01< icelus> how do you mean?
20100416 23:27:11< icelus> i mean the right answer is clear: there is some object which owns these buttons
20100416 23:27:23< Crab_> who calls that storyscreen ?
20100416 23:27:23< icelus> its a local variable in the method i was working on
20100416 23:27:37< icelus> playsingle_controller is the only caller
20100416 23:27:46< icelus> but its in storyscreen/controller that this would occur
20100416 23:27:57< icelus> it makes its buttons and passes them to the parts
20100416 23:28:12< Crab_> I'd refactor   show_storyscreen(*gui_, vconfig(s, true), level_["name"]); to   storyscreen.show(*gui_, vconfig(s, true), level_["name"]);
20100416 23:28:14< icelus> all the parts (in storyscreen/render.hpp/cpp) share the same buttons
20100416 23:28:36< icelus> yeah that doesn't really make much diff tho because
20100416 23:28:37< Crab_> where 'storyscreen' is the new class whose instance we create in playsingle_controller.
20100416 23:28:44< icelus> its just a shell in interface
20100416 23:28:49< icelus> the real thing is already in that form
20100416 23:28:54< icelus> as storyscreen::controller
20100416 23:29:01< icelus> if you look at interface.cpp it's just a wrapper
20100416 23:29:04< icelus> this isn't the issue
20100416 23:29:13< icelus> the issue is this: in controller.cpp it makes its buttons and shares them
20100416 23:29:16< icelus> with the renderer
20100416 23:29:30< icelus> i really was just trying to avoid passing in an ever increasing list of buttons to the renderer
20100416 23:29:40< icelus> once you hit 5 buttons passed in it just seems excessive
20100416 23:29:44< icelus> and its getting unwieldy
20100416 23:30:02< icelus> but i can't find a technical solution to effect the clearly desirable design
20100416 23:30:07< icelus> you could just not share the buttons
20100416 23:30:10< Crab_> where is that 'passing a list of buttons' code ?
20100416 23:30:42< Crab_> part_ui::part_ui ?
20100416 23:31:10< icelus> controller.cpp:142 in my source which is patched a bit
20100416 23:31:16< icelus> is one end
20100416 23:31:26< icelus> the rest is in render.cpp/render.hpp
20100416 23:31:36< icelus> where the references to the buttons are kept
20100416 23:31:47< icelus> it's not ideal in any case because lifetime guarantees aren't strictly enforced
20100416 23:31:59< icelus> you could accidentally wipe out the buttons before you were done with the parts
20100416 23:32:16< icelus> but i don't want to tread on toes, i just wanted to enhance it a little
20100416 23:32:24< icelus> the trouble is for 2 buttons just passing them in is ok
20100416 23:32:34< icelus> but i hit 5 and i wanted a better option
20100416 23:32:47< icelus> what i really wanted was a class that would encapsulate the idea
20100416 23:33:05< icelus> "this is a bank of buttons you can use"
20100416 23:33:09< noy_> HEy icelus. 
20100416 23:33:12< noy_> how goes' it?
20100416 23:33:28< icelus> noy_, good =) how are you?
20100416 23:33:42< noy_> not too bad
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20100416 23:34:25< Crab_> icelus: what about  http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/cab95PAn ?
20100416 23:35:19< icelus> Crab_, i don't know how to make that work
20100416 23:35:47< icelus> it's only worth doing if you're going to make them references or pointers
20100416 23:35:58< icelus> if references then you can't have nulls til they're initialized
20100416 23:36:18< icelus> i could go with pointers or shared pointers, but the fact that that wasn't done originally put me off
20100416 23:36:25< icelus> i guess that would solve a lot of problems tho
20100416 23:36:39< icelus> on the other hand if i'm not doing references, it's easy to make a button manager class
20100416 23:36:43< icelus> which is better still
20100416 23:36:53< Crab_> well, shared pointers can be used
20100416 23:37:03< icelus> yeah i guess that's the way forward
20100416 23:37:08< Crab_> or, see http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/UQpTMxp2
20100416 23:37:15< Crab_> something like this is used in the ai
20100416 23:37:51< icelus> this is bad though in general isn't it
20100416 23:38:09< icelus> when you start passing in the caller to the callee
20100416 23:38:17< icelus> that starts to look like a kludge
20100416 23:38:24< icelus> i'm not saying its never a good idea
20100416 23:38:31< icelus> but it definitely increases the coupling
20100416 23:38:47< Crab_> note that we pass not a caller, but a 'interface' which, by chance, caller implements
20100416 23:38:54< icelus> yeah but still
20100416 23:39:02< icelus> "by chance" is stretching it =)
20100416 23:39:18< Crab_> or, if the lifetime of those buttons is less than the lifetime of the controller, than another helper object is needed, with the right lifetime (say, which is valid for the duration of 'show' method
20100416 23:39:30< icelus> yeah that was my original idea
20100416 23:39:41< icelus> but if i'm doing it with shared pointers that's easy enough
20100416 23:39:49< icelus> the problem i ran into was i couldn't do it with references
20100416 23:39:54< icelus> at least i couldn't work out how to
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20100416 23:40:06< Crab_> yes, boost::shared_ptr is the good way to go
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 17 00:00:31 2010