--- Log opened Mon Apr 19 00:00:21 2010
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20100419 00:35:50< shadowmaster> YogiHH: no, I didn't open it
20100419 00:36:00< shadowmaster> or actually, I opened it for a few seconds because I misread your PM
20100419 00:36:30< shadowmaster> I'm opening it now anyway
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20100419 00:37:31 * YogiHH is confused, as the board no longer said it was closed
20100419 00:37:47< shadowmaster> I forgot to readd that bit.
20100419 00:38:05< shadowmaster> It's open now for everyone anyway (please bear with me for a few seconds while I fix the moderators' permissions!)
20100419 00:38:51< shadowmaster> YogiHH: done
20100419 00:38:57< shadowmaster> fendrin: ^
20100419 00:38:58< YogiHH> thanks
20100419 00:39:56< shadowmaster> ugh, I shouldn't have eaten fried stuff. I'm feeling sick.
20100419 00:41:20< fendrin> shadowmaster: Cool, thank you very much :-)
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20100419 01:20:37< fendrin> shadowmaster, YogiHH: Is it fine for you both to offer gambit moderator rights in the experimental forum?
20100419 01:21:04< shadowmaster> erm.
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20100419 01:41:14< fendrin> Gambit: Please join #wesnothxp
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20100419 01:42:55< Espreon> LOL, wut?
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20100419 01:47:04< AI0867> silene: I'd like to access ngettext() from lua, but I don't see how I should go about adding that
20100419 01:50:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: GSoC: Thanks to all GSoC candidates for submitting proposals to Google. Accepted student applications announced on April 26. | 89 bugs, 266 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100419 02:18:16< YogiHH> For the C++ experts: I found the reason why joining a game with an unknown era makes wesnoth crash with silene's lobby patch (haven't tried the new lobby yet).
20100419 02:19:04< YogiHH> While there should be a way to avoid this by preventing joining/observing in the first place, the problem is more basic and i am not sure how to fix that best.
20100419 02:20:22< YogiHH> The problem is that the constructor of play_controller throws an exception after assigning some of the global resources-objects and that the destructor who should care for resetting them is not called.
20100419 02:20:53< YogiHH> Anyone with a good idea how to solve that feel free to step in
20100419 02:21:41< fendrin> bye
20100419 02:21:49< YogiHH> good night, fendrin
20100419 02:22:27< Upthorn> call the destructor explicitly before throwing the exception?
20100419 02:24:54< Upthorn> err... that assumes the exception is thrown from game_controller
20100419 02:26:09< Upthorn> otherwise catch the exception in game_controller, call destructor explicitly, and pass it on
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20100419 02:29:49< YogiHH> Upthorn: sounds alright to me, but i am not familiar enough with C++ to tell if that is the preferred way to deal with it.
20100419 02:30:14< YogiHH> Anyway, i am off for now. Good night everybody
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20100419 03:03:38< Jacob_> Hello
20100419 03:05:00< Espreon> Hello.
20100419 03:05:25< Jacob_> shadowmaster: You were discussing yesterday about the compile time for code?
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20100419 03:06:47< Gambit> Jacob_: /whois shadowmaster
20100419 03:07:02< Espreon>  /whois shadowmaster shadowmaster is moar fun
20100419 03:07:22< Jacob_> He is ... a coder?
20100419 03:07:36< Espreon>  /whois is an IRC command...
20100419 03:07:44< Gambit> No, I mean type that it... shadowmaster is very good about letting us know when he's here and when he's not.
20100419 03:07:48< Gambit> *type that in
20100419 03:07:52< Jacob_> Oh
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20100419 03:07:58< Jacob_> Ok
20100419 03:08:10< Espreon>  "/whois shadowmaster shadowmaster" is moar verbose
20100419 03:08:20< Espreon> 'Twill even tell you the idle time.
20100419 03:08:39< Gambit> Neat.
20100419 03:09:05< Jacob_> Yup he is
20100419 03:09:29< Jacob_> Gambit: /msg sends a message?
20100419 03:09:40< Espreon> Indeed.
20100419 03:09:44< Espreon> But, /query is better.
20100419 03:09:56< Espreon> "/query shadowmaster" as byspel.
20100419 03:10:32< Jacob_> Ok, thankyou, I think I'm checking out IRC commands after this
20100419 03:10:42< Espreon> You are welcome.
20100419 03:11:55< Jacob_> WML Supports making new Races correct?
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20100419 03:12:02< Gambit> Jacob_: Yes.
20100419 03:13:01< Gambit> Jacob_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitsWML
20100419 03:14:28< Jacob_> Well, that knocks out coding project idea #2
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20100419 03:18:08< Gambit> Jacob_: We need a [harm_unit] tag. :)
20100419 03:18:34< Jacob_> I could try that :D
20100419 03:18:36< Gambit> Jacob_: coding project ideas: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FutureWML
20100419 03:18:57< Gambit> Some of that is out of date though.
20100419 03:19:15< Jacob_> Ok
20100419 03:19:53< Jacob_> Are we planning on switching to lua? Or was that just with AI?
20100419 03:20:09< Gambit> AFAIK they want to expose as much as possible to LUA.
20100419 03:20:23< Gambit> LUA won't replace WML, but it will be an option for projects that need to go deeper than WML is able.
20100419 03:20:29< Gambit> Also LUA is able to create new WML tags.
20100419 03:20:40< Gambit> They work in tandem I guess you could say.
20100419 03:21:21< Gambit> Jacob_: Are you looking for a project for GSOC? Or just something to do?
20100419 03:21:49< Gambit> Now that I think about it, the things on the futureWML page probably arent big enough for SoC.
20100419 03:21:57< Jacob_> I am not with GSOC but I am looking for a project
20100419 03:22:09< Jacob_> Something small
20100419 03:22:57< Gambit> Then futureWML might be perfect. All the tags there were generally liked, just not implemented yet.
20100419 03:23:31< Jacob_> They sound good, now I will get used to WML
20100419 03:25:25< Jacob_> Which, shouldn't be that hard
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20100419 06:59:58< CIA-32> jetryl * r42175 /trunk/data/core/images/halo/misc/ (14 files): Added images for a leadership 'light bloom' or 'lens flare' that will be wired into the leadership macro.
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20100419 07:21:48< silene> AI0867: adding ngettext to lua is simple, just add an interface for it; but it is kind of pointless unless wmlxgettext is extended to recognize it; and not that the result would only be for immediate use, since t_string doesn't support plurals and it would therefore be a plain string
20100419 07:23:16< CIA-32> silene * r42176 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: 
20100419 07:23:16< CIA-32> Fixed team pointer leak when play_controller fails to initialize. (Fix for bug #15836.)
20100419 07:23:16< CIA-32> Untested but hopefully YogiHH was spot on.
20100419 07:23:16< CIA-32> By the way, this is unrelated to the lobby, so the 1.8 one would crash too.
20100419 07:23:44< Espreon> https://gna.org/bugs/?11811
20100419 07:23:46 * Espreon whistles
20100419 07:23:52< CIA-32> silene * r42177 /trunk/ (changelog src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp): Reverted r42163 and properly detected WML entries this time.
20100419 07:27:07< Espreon> silene: ... and of course, that message was intended for you.
20100419 07:27:40< ABCD> bug 11811
20100419 07:27:49< ABCD> wesbot: bug 11811
20100419 07:27:49< wesbot> Bug #11811  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100419 07:27:50< wesbot> Summary: Support for gettext plurals in WML
20100419 07:27:50< wesbot> Original submission: Apart from providing the basic translation with _"", it m
20100419 07:27:53< wesbot> ight be useful to have full support for plurals as well.There are two possib
20100419 07:27:56< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?11811
20100419 07:27:57< ABCD> there we go :)
20100419 07:28:12< Espreon> Heh...
20100419 07:28:35< silene> Espreon: yes, i know about this one (and my preference goes to the 2nd solution)
20100419 07:30:10 * Espreon wonders when it will actually be implemented... for things must be ready for Za Warudo...
20100419 07:30:20< Espreon> *za warudo
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20100419 07:31:09< CIA-32> silene * r42178 /branches/1.8/src/play_controller.cpp: 
20100419 07:31:09< CIA-32> Fixed team pointer leak when play_controller fails to initialize. (Fix for bug #15836.)
20100419 07:31:09< CIA-32> Backported from trunk r42176.
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20100419 07:35:06< Espreon> ... and now I shall leave...
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20100419 09:20:35< Ivanovic> moin
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20100419 12:08:12< CIA-32> upthorn * r42179 /branches/upthorn_persistence/ (projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj src/persist_context.hpp): 
20100419 12:08:12< CIA-32> Created new log domain "engine/persist" for persistence-related WML errors to
20100419 12:08:12< CIA-32> log to. Modified VC9 project's "debug (fast)" configuration to create a console
20100419 12:08:12< CIA-32> window, and to provide the command line option "--log-debug=engine/persist" when
20100419 12:08:12< CIA-32> launching for debugging.
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20100419 12:21:27< CIA-32> upthorn * r42180 /branches/upthorn_persistence/ (7 files in 7 dirs): merged revisions 42173-42178 from trunk
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20100419 12:53:22< timotei> is anyone using eclipse CDT for building wesnoth?
20100419 12:53:33< timotei> on linux?
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20100419 13:13:04< CIA-32> zookeeper * r42181 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: Changed Ystara from a Spectre to a Death Knight, and Grak from a Wraith/Shadow/Nightgaunt to a Wraith/Wraith/Spectre. Fixes the very annoying issue of Grak being invisible on the first turn on normal and hard.
20100419 13:16:01< CIA-32> zookeeper * r42182 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: Ported r42181 to trunk.
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20100419 13:33:25< Ivanovic> timotei: i think fendrin at least once built using eclipse
20100419 13:33:35< Ivanovic> and tht is probably under linux, not 100% sure though
20100419 13:34:13< timotei> ok, thanks
20100419 13:34:18< timotei> I'll ask him when it's online
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20100419 14:13:04< timotei> wesbot: seen silene?
20100419 14:13:05< wesbot> timotei: The person with the nick silene last spoke 6h 44m ago.  4h 58m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20100419 14:25:45< timotei> hey Crab_ , around?
20100419 14:29:02< timotei> Sirp, around?
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20100419 15:01:21< happygrue> Upthorn, Upth: I looked through your proposal but I am not sure I understand the benefits of what it would allow.  Was there a section describing "what we could do with this" that I missed?
20100419 15:01:45< happygrue> or do you have a minute to explain it to me?
20100419 15:02:57< Upthorn> happygrue: trigger events based on variables that were set on previous instances of a scenario or campaign.
20100419 15:03:53< Upthorn> for instance, making a certain unit available for recruitment if the player has previously completed the campaign
20100419 15:04:12< happygrue> So player A goes and beats a boss, and then quits and player B comes and plays the same game later and the Boss would be dead?
20100419 15:04:38< Upthorn> if that is how it is set
20100419 15:05:12< Upthorn> the simplest case is... are you familiar with "achievements"
20100419 15:05:22< Gambit> unlockable content
20100419 15:05:33< happygrue> yes
20100419 15:05:41< happygrue> I see
20100419 15:06:11< Upthorn> my test case has the tutorial remember whether the player chose konrad or li'sar
20100419 15:06:54< Ivanovic> or the "ultra uber difficult" mode which only unlocks once you completed the campaign once on another difficulty level
20100419 15:06:57< happygrue> what would you imagine that people would do with this functionality?
20100419 15:07:24< Upthorn> well, with some additional modification, massively multiplayer worlds become possible
20100419 15:07:47< Ivanovic> happygrue: i could imagine some massively multiplayer world conquest mode
20100419 15:07:55< happygrue> so it would be something that the WML people could add into their scenarios?
20100419 15:07:59< happygrue> what about team limits?
20100419 15:08:14 * happygrue is wrapping his brain around this
20100419 15:08:25< Upthorn> I do not understand how team limits are relevant
20100419 15:08:25< Ivanovic> so that you could eg play some risk like game
20100419 15:08:41< Upthorn> except that each turn of risk is an entire multiplayer game of wesnoth
20100419 15:08:50< Ivanovic> fighting the battle in different regions of the world
20100419 15:09:15< Ivanovic> and by winning battles, winning those regions
20100419 15:09:25< happygrue> what happens when two copies of the same scenario are running at the same time?
20100419 15:09:46< Gambit> I think variables are persistent by user.
20100419 15:09:49-!- Bocom_ [~Bocom@c-60cee255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 15:10:01< Gambit> Or at least until you get to Crab's gamemaster plan.
20100419 15:10:18< happygrue> so I personally have to unlock it for it to be unlocked for me?
20100419 15:10:31< Gambit> Yeah.
20100419 15:11:12< Gambit> At least with just the simple persistent variables part.
20100419 15:11:13< happygrue> but in this risk like idea, you might want to be on a team of sorts, don't you want to have access to the regions that your team has control of?
20100419 15:11:19< Gambit> Crab has bigger plans.
20100419 15:11:30< happygrue> hehe
20100419 15:11:41< happygrue> it is a really interesting idea.  I was just curious about the goals
20100419 15:12:13< Gambit> Crab wants persistent online meta worlds where players can be merged and split into different scenarios but still be part of the same campaign, and players can come and go and aahhhhh
20100419 15:13:12< Gambit> Upthorn: If you get accepted, and do just the persistent variables even, you'll be my new hero ;)
20100419 15:13:16< Ivanovic> WoW shall soon become known as World of Wesnoth to everyone in the wide internetz out there!
20100419 15:13:23< happygrue> that is a really neat though.  It sounds very complext to design though
20100419 15:13:25< happygrue> heheh
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20100419 15:18:32< happygrue> Upthorn: with regard to team limits I was wondering about the upper bound on the number of players that could currently be in a game (9), as it might be somewhat limiting for such an ambitious project?
20100419 15:19:26< Upthorn> ah. I don't foresee modifying the team limit
20100419 15:19:36< Ivanovic> happygrue: that one is only an artificial limitation of the interface anyway
20100419 15:20:06< Ivanovic> in the old days with starting positions hardcoded as numbers from 1 to 9 in the map format it was different
20100419 15:20:17< Ivanovic> but these days you can have "more" sides
20100419 15:20:31< happygrue> Ivanovic: perhaps worth lifting then, if this goes through.  For an RPG style campaign it would be reasonable to have 6-10 players and then you want a bunch of AI sides too in some cases
20100419 15:20:32< Ivanovic> (though we will have to find some new colors to identify players...)
20100419 15:20:34< happygrue> I see
20100419 15:20:54< Ivanovic> you can basically have endless sides right now alreayd
20100419 15:20:57< Gambit> Tested up to 200.
20100419 15:21:09< happygrue> well good
20100419 15:21:16< Ivanovic> as you see, nothing stopping you from a roleplaying campaign
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20100419 15:21:28< Gambit> 199 leaderless AI sides with just one unit anyway...
20100419 15:21:32< Ivanovic> the limitation is just the interface in the mp lobby only allowing 9 "selectable at start" sides
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20100419 15:23:38< Gambit> So right now, if you could get 20 observers, you could give them sides once you got in the game?
20100419 15:23:45< Gambit> Ivanovic: ^?
20100419 15:23:53< Ivanovic> no idea, probably yes
20100419 15:24:17< happygrue> Content would be able to be assigned as per user or for everyone?  I.E. dropping an item somewhere that ANY other player could pick up?
20100419 15:24:50< happygrue> Upthorn: ^
20100419 15:28:42< Upthorn> happygrue: well, there's two possibilities. One is normal multiplayer, in which the scripter decides whether a variable is global or per-side
20100419 15:29:03< Upthorn> global variables are saved to all players, and read from the game host
20100419 15:29:31< Upthorn> then there is game master mode, which is a hypothetical new multiplayer mode
20100419 15:29:47< Upthorn> where I guess all data would be saved to a server
20100419 15:30:11< Upthorn> but I'm not sure because the spec hasn't been fully detailed yet.
20100419 15:32:23< happygrue> I see.
20100419 15:38:48< AI0867> silene: your changelog entry in r42177 states that included missing files are now a fatal error, but the code doesn't show that
20100419 15:40:14< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: noticed that we have a certain important not-MP-lobby-related bug in 1.8.x?
20100419 15:41:22< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: we do?
20100419 15:41:36< Ivanovic> beside the upload probs?
20100419 15:41:48< shadowmaster> if by uploads probs you mean https://gna.org/bugs/?15902, then no
20100419 15:41:55< Ivanovic> yes, that one i meant
20100419 15:42:20< shadowmaster> ah good, I thought you got tired of reading every post in wesnoth-bugs long ago
20100419 15:42:29< Ivanovic> i don't read the ml
20100419 15:42:38< Ivanovic> but have a look at the bugtracker itself every now and then
20100419 15:46:11< CIA-32> ai0867 * r42183 /branches/fendrin_pathfind_and_editor/ (11 files in 9 dirs): Merge trunk up to r42182
20100419 15:47:01< happygrue> Upthorn: if items in a game world are being picked up in one instance what happens in other instances of the game?  Is data going back and forth between palyers in ALL instances of the game on the server?  And does that raise the potential for OOS that spans multiple games?
20100419 15:48:50< Gambit> Upthorn: Does your proposal cover the game master part of the big plan?
20100419 15:49:05< Upthorn> Gambit: not yet. I don't understand it fully enough
20100419 15:49:28< Upthorn> happygrue: well, I am sure that, at the very least, instances will be instance'd
20100419 15:49:48< Upthorn> so that there is no communication between multiple simultaneous instances of the same map
20100419 15:50:04< happygrue> if not live updates then when players do things that contradict there is a problem:  two players on a team make enemy and friend of an NPC at the same time in different games?
20100419 15:50:42< happygrue> or can you call an update from within the scenario for problematic cases?
20100419 15:51:36< Upthorn> In the worst case, there might be a limit on the number of simultaneous games on the same map and server.
20100419 15:51:49< Upthorn> but
20100419 15:51:58< Upthorn> this is speculation based on speculation
20100419 15:52:05< Gambit> happygrue: From what I understand of the game master part communication isn't between instances of the same scneario.
20100419 15:52:20< Gambit> But scenarios can send info, and ask for info from a gamemaster
20100419 15:52:26< Upthorn> how it may work has not yet been determined
20100419 15:52:56< Gambit> And each game master is running one campaign (?)
20100419 15:53:06< Upthorn> you are raising valid points of consideration of it is decided that it should work that way... but I can't say with certanty that this will happen.
20100419 15:53:06< Gambit> wesbot: seen Crab_?
20100419 15:53:06< wesbot> Gambit: The person with the nick Crab_ 52m 54s ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20100419 15:53:15< happygrue> then how does the gamestate reconcile when a player in one game picks up a unique item and then players in other games (concurrently runnign) tries to pick it up too?
20100419 15:53:33< Ivanovic> happygrue: how can this happen?
20100419 15:53:44< Ivanovic> you could have a limitation that one instance can only be run at *one* time
20100419 15:53:48< Upthorn> happygrue: the item doesn't exist in their versions, they are handled by a different game master that has different persistence data
20100419 15:53:49< Gambit> happygrue: That's not part of Upthorns proposal as far as I know.
20100419 15:54:02< Upthorn> is another possible solution
20100419 15:54:09< Ivanovic> there is no reason why several players have to be able to run the instance (in the same "world context") at the same time
20100419 15:55:27< AI0867> Ivanovic: only  if there's one 'master' server
20100419 15:55:40< AI0867> if there isn't, then they can, each in their own game
20100419 15:55:45< Ivanovic> AI0867: that one is called server.wesnoth.org
20100419 15:55:48< Ivanovic> ;)
20100419 15:55:53< happygrue> Ivanovic: well, so in order to interact with other players they need to wait until that game is not being played anywhere on the server and then start a game?
20100419 15:56:06< Ivanovic> happygrue: depends
20100419 15:56:09< happygrue> one game at a time is crippling for the whole idea?
20100419 15:56:13< AI0867> is the persistene information stored on the server then? I thought it would be on the client
20100419 15:56:24< Ivanovic> AI0867: various levels of the idea!
20100419 15:56:29< Ivanovic> happygrue: no, it would not
20100419 15:56:43< Ivanovic> happygrue: eg consider it working like it is for games like world of warcraft
20100419 15:56:52< Ivanovic> there are several "persistency contexts"
20100419 15:57:00< Ivanovic> (there known as realms)
20100419 15:57:31< Ivanovic> so eg on the main wesnoth server there could be some 10 times the "world domination abc"
20100419 15:57:40< Upthorn> I think I have a more interesting solution to happygrue's dilemma
20100419 15:57:54< Ivanovic> and yeah, in *each* of those instances with some many players there could be the scenario available somehow
20100419 15:57:54< Upthorn> say we have a set of players playing on globally persistent map a
20100419 15:58:10< Upthorn> now a second set of player wants to play on that map
20100419 15:58:35< Upthorn> ideally, if possible, what should happen is that they join the game in progress
20100419 15:59:40< Upthorn> I suspect that this may be impractical
20100419 15:59:48< Upthorn> (very probably)
20100419 15:59:59< Upthorn> but it is very fun to think about
20100419 16:01:06< happygrue> Ivanovic: in those 10 instances of world domination abc, how do players intereact with each other in any meaningful way without sending data back and forth?  If I want to drop an item in the world, doesn't it need to show up in the other worlds?
20100419 16:01:28< Ivanovic> happygrue: variable on the server
20100419 16:01:34< Ivanovic> and wesnoth is not a normal rpg
20100419 16:01:44< Ivanovic> so no realtime stuff required
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20100419 16:02:01< Ivanovic> that is: you can only create variables that the content designer thinks about
20100419 16:02:25< Ivanovic> and you can only "use" existing variables when the content designer checks for them
20100419 16:02:36< Ivanovic> example:
20100419 16:03:00< Ivanovic> one player slayed some roaming ogre tribe in some place of the world
20100419 16:03:38< Ivanovic> this tribe would walk around the world and appear in every 5th scenario or the likes till it is slain
20100419 16:04:16< Ivanovic> at the start of playing "your" scenario you check if the ogres are currently roaming (as in "they can be placed") or if they are already dead or in another scenario of this world
20100419 16:04:25< happygrue> so it would not appear in the other 9 instances of the game running at the same time?
20100419 16:04:33< happygrue> I see
20100419 16:04:37< Ivanovic> those 10 instances are 100% independent
20100419 16:04:45< Ivanovic> those are completely different contexts
20100419 16:05:09< Ivanovic> lets say you have some 20 players involved in some "free the world from all evil" context
20100419 16:05:20< Ivanovic> and another 20 in another context like this
20100419 16:05:33< Ivanovic> those don't know of the others in the "wrong" context
20100419 16:05:37< happygrue> so what you are imagining is that players can be persistant and interact when they are in the same game, but there is no interaction with players that are not in YOUR game
20100419 16:05:51< happygrue> but you can roam around and join with different players to interact with them
20100419 16:05:52< Ivanovic> happygrue: think in more levels
20100419 16:05:57< Ivanovic> not in linear campaigns
20100419 16:06:00< happygrue> hmm
20100419 16:06:05< Ivanovic> but in "your game" and "your game context"
20100419 16:06:14< Ivanovic> the game is the current scenario you are playing
20100419 16:06:27< Ivanovic> the game context does specify what is valid in "your world"
20100419 16:06:40< Ivanovic> like "konrad II became king of wesnoth" would be something in your game context
20100419 16:07:23< Ivanovic> where "i am currently fighting the evil lich lord who threatens to invade the country from the east to gain the reighn from konrad II, current ruling king of wesnoth" would be your current scenario/map/game
20100419 16:07:44< Ivanovic> in the current game there could eg be up to three of the 20 human players be allowed
20100419 16:08:08< Ivanovic> in another battlefield at another place of the world there could be 6 players facing the invading orcs in the north
20100419 16:08:34< Ivanovic> and for all of them konrad II would be the current ruling king which somehow has an effect on gameplay
20100419 16:08:51< happygrue> I suppose it is not helping my understanding of this that I don't play WoW... :D
20100419 16:08:54< happygrue> but I think I get it now
20100419 16:09:11< Ivanovic> basically you can think of a whole world map
20100419 16:09:39< Ivanovic> this world map with current status of *whatever* does provide various battlefields "in parallel"
20100419 16:09:40< happygrue> Upthorn: is this what you are proposing?  I guess I misunderstood the details.
20100419 16:09:57< Ivanovic> what upthorn is proposing is some system that might eventually allow this
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20100419 16:10:06< happygrue> Ah.
20100419 16:10:12< Ivanovic> interconnection of scenarios to some game context
20100419 16:10:35< Ivanovic> currently all you can do is have one "basically linear" campaign with your players
20100419 16:11:16< Ivanovic> with this you *could* play a world without 100% fixed order of the scenarios and things that happen
20100419 16:11:43< Ivanovic> where things intersect depending on how other players play their scenarios
20100419 16:14:08< Ivanovic> in general the first step of those persistent variables is providing some more replay value and an option to create achievement like things
20100419 16:14:34< Ivanovic> you could (in singleplayer) add events where your choices in campaign a affect campaign b
20100419 16:15:17< Ivanovic> (so it can eg make a difference if you backed konrad or lisar for becoming king/queen which changes who gives you some task or the likes)
20100419 16:16:16< Ivanovic> and yes, the project is about creating the basis for something like this, it is not about creating all the possible content, too
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20100419 16:16:39< Ivanovic> Upthorn: please correct me when my stuff is too crazy and far from what you think your proposal does (possibly) cover
20100419 16:20:18< happygrue> so each battlefield can only be accessed in one instance.  A bunch of players go on some quest and then that map isn't available until they are done.  So other players in the same context would go do something on a different map?
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20100419 16:21:57< happygrue> what happens when the creator wants to tinker with some WML?  I guess this would be something that needs to be in very discrete and not-compatable versions that are uploaded somewhat infrequently?
20100419 16:22:14< Crab_> happygrue: 'available scenarios' will depend on the rules set forth in WML/lua by the 'owners' of that persistent campaign.
20100419 16:22:31< happygrue> so disable one to work on it?
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20100419 16:23:56< happygrue> how does that square up with any changes that need to be made to the game state?  Or I guess the game state is just a bunch of variables stored on the server, so it's not really something that is edited?
20100419 16:24:13< Crab_> happygrue: 'what happens when the creator wants to tinker with some WML?'  - a good question, actually. I want to design  the gamemaster in such a way to allow hot redeployment of gamemaster's code.
20100419 16:24:48< happygrue> hehe:
20100419 16:24:58< Crab_> happygrue: yes, the game state is a bunch of variables and scripts, which (for gamemaster) will probably be stored in SQL.
20100419 16:25:16< Crab_> for players, in WML savefile-like file.
20100419 16:25:33< happygrue> "you should go to the tavern" - "we don't WANT to go to the tavern" - ... tinker tinker ... "15 Fire Drakes now stand before you and suggest you should go to the tavern..."
20100419 16:25:58< Crab_> happygrue: :))))
20100419 16:26:48< Crab_> happygrue: yes, the gamemaster would be able to change the gamestate, even including 'transfer units from scenario 1 to scenario 2 , on the fly, if they are interdependent'
20100419 16:30:37< happygrue> and this gamemaser state is accessed via WML right click menus with tools programmed into the scenario?  Or it is it something more permenetly a part of the Wesnoth UI?
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20100419 16:30:57< happygrue> not "gamemaster state", but rather commands
20100419 16:31:23< happygrue> also: what about savegames?  If saved ina  state and then continued a week later might it be horribly broken?
20100419 16:31:30< happygrue> it seems savegames wouldn't be allowed?
20100419 16:31:32< Crab_> the gamemaster itself is a 'player' from the point of view of other players. so, in-game controls are 'whatever is defined in WML'
20100419 16:31:36< happygrue> only completed maps
20100419 16:31:45< happygrue> Crab_: makes sense
20100419 16:32:27< Crab_> happygrue: and, the gamemaster won't have an UI of his own (like wesnothd, it'll be headless). but it'll be possible to communicate with it in a number of ways.
20100419 16:34:35< Crab_> about saves, again, the save itself will be available, without issues. the save is similar to the object 'detached'  from persistence context, so, to play in it as 'part of the campaign' it has to be 'reattached' to gamemaster.
20100419 16:35:06< Crab_> if gamemaster's code doesn't do anything fancy, it shouldn't be a problem to continue from old save.
20100419 16:36:12< Crab_> there are 'gameplay continuity' issues, but they are higher-level issues, which should be solved in WML ruleset.
20100419 16:37:20< Crab_> e.g., if your RPG hero is L5, and then you save a game, then start another, level him to L7, and then want to load the old game, it's GMs decision about 'what to do' with the old leader, and how to merge the data.
20100419 16:38:26< Crab_> to simplify things for himself, a campaign creator might want to enforce '1 player - 1 active game' rule, but that's for him to code in WML, not for 'core' gamemaster rules to enforce.
20100419 16:39:06< Crab_> and keep asking questions, they're good :)
20100419 16:40:24< Crab_> for example, imagine a campaign where you play for various 'military leaders' of your king - it (generally) won't be a problem if standard 'skirmish' games are abandoned, saved/loaded, played in parallel, etc - since they can be non-dependant on each other.
20100419 16:41:38< Crab_> and, in simpler cases, a well-coded scenario can be played from the save 'just for fun of it', without GM, in a 'detached' version, even locally.
20100419 16:45:20< Crab_> note that the 'load game' in case where no player has taken part in another game in the same campaign since saving, will generally happen without problems
20100419 16:48:17-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.191.4] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 16:48:22< Crab_> hi, timotei
20100419 16:48:40< Crab_> timotei: you wanted something ?
20100419 16:56:57-!- billynux [~billy@239-226-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 17:01:44< timotei> hey Crab_ 
20100419 17:02:01< timotei> well, yes, I didn't managed to figure out when/where I can enable the log
20100419 17:02:15< timotei> for example in filesystem.cpp
20100419 17:02:15< Crab_> timotei: which log ?
20100419 17:02:20< timotei> there are some macros for logs
20100419 17:02:29< timotei> #define LOG_FS LOG_STREAM(info, log_filesystem)
20100419 17:02:39< Crab_> and see           static lg::log_domain log_filesystem("filesystem");
20100419 17:02:47< Crab_> so, ./wesnoth --log-debug=filesystem
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20100419 17:04:49< timotei> ok, thanks
20100419 17:05:06< billynux> hi Crab_ 
20100419 17:05:28< Crab_> hi, billynux
20100419 17:05:37< billynux> mordante was looking for me, any idea why?
20100419 17:07:10< Crab_> billynux: nothing too important, afair. 
20100419 17:07:10< Ivanovic> billynux: he said nothing explicitly
20100419 17:07:24< Ivanovic> maybe checking when you are around in general and the likes
20100419 17:07:36< Ivanovic> (so that he *can* maybe ask you questions)
20100419 17:07:55< Crab_> billynux: it's nice to see you around at this time of day, btw
20100419 17:07:55< billynux> ok ok, he used the "seen" command, which told me, I was just curious
20100419 17:08:11< Ivanovic> :)
20100419 17:08:20< billynux> its noon here, I've been up for about 3 hours
20100419 17:08:33< billynux> I'm usually a night crawler :P
20100419 17:08:47< Ivanovic> if mordante joins today i'd guess it will be in some two or three hours, since he is most likely at work atm
20100419 17:08:52< Ivanovic> over here it is 5pm
20100419 17:09:20< billynux> ok, anything you would like for me to do RE GSoC ?
20100419 17:09:36< billynux> I was thinking maybe fiddling with the prototype...
20100419 17:11:06< Soliton> AI0867: the last time i tried to update the server it sure was a fatal error in practice.
20100419 17:11:06-!- mordante [~mordante@87.215.201.26] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 17:11:09< mordante> servus
20100419 17:11:20< Ivanovic> billynux: there he is, rather early today...
20100419 17:11:22< mordante> billynux, I had some questions regarding your proposal
20100419 17:11:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20100419 17:11:37< mordante> I just read the log, will leave in five minutes ;-)
20100419 17:11:37< billynux> were your ears burning mordante? :D
20100419 17:11:44< billynux> okok
20100419 17:11:56< mordante> billynux, are you around in about 3 hours?
20100419 17:12:08< billynux> yes
20100419 17:12:20< mordante> good, I just missed you yesterday ;-)
20100419 17:12:25< billynux> ok
20100419 17:12:45< billynux> we can chat here, or you can ask anything through the GSoC page
20100419 17:12:45< Ivanovic> billynux: as you see, my prediction "in some two or three hours" is not too bad!
20100419 17:12:47< Ivanovic> ^^
20100419 17:12:57< billynux> indeed!
20100419 17:12:57< mordante> then I'll join later again after diner
20100419 17:13:05< timotei> hours or minutes, almost the same thing ;))
20100419 17:13:13< mordante> billynux, I like irc better allows more interaction
20100419 17:13:22< billynux> ok, I'll be around
20100419 17:13:27< Ivanovic> timotei: the "direct around" feature is just some short term summon, those don't last long
20100419 17:13:34< mordante> off again catching my train
20100419 17:13:45< Ivanovic> good luck that the volcano ash does not stop trains, too!
20100419 17:13:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20100419 17:13:53< mordante> timotei, you see Ivanovic is all knowing ;-)
20100419 17:14:17< mordante> Ivanovic, as long as there are no doors of trains flying around all will be fine
20100419 17:14:27< Ivanovic> hehehe
20100419 17:14:47< mordante> bye
20100419 17:14:53< billynux> bye
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20100419 17:16:06< Ivanovic> timotei: you know, becoming release manager requires you to prove some psychic abilities
20100419 17:16:34-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 17:16:34< shadowmaster> it also requires lots of chocolate
20100419 17:19:57< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42184 /trunk/ (data/core/about.cfg po/wesnoth-nr/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
20100419 17:20:01< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42185 /branches/1.8/ (data/core/about.cfg po/wesnoth-nr/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
20100419 17:20:04< timotei> srry, was afk 2 mins
20100419 17:20:17< timotei> nice on Ivanovic :))
20100419 17:20:35< timotei> s/on/one
20100419 17:20:44< timotei> I was wondering, how old are you?:D
20100419 17:21:02< timotei> Ivanovic, you
20100419 17:22:05< shadowmaster> at least nine thousand years
20100419 17:22:16< timotei> well, that's a lot
20100419 17:22:34< timotei> I mean: A LOT
20100419 17:25:45< timotei> Crab_, did you use gdb on linux for debugging?
20100419 17:26:18< Crab_> yes
20100419 17:26:46< timotei> and how is compared to msvc's?
20100419 17:26:54< timotei> let's not take in account the gui and stuff like this
20100419 17:27:04< AI0867> happygrue: ButThouMust
20100419 17:27:15< timotei> for example, the msvc debugger can't tell everytime the values of some variables
20100419 17:27:25< Crab_> it's ok. (emacs has a frontend to gdb , and there's other frontends)
20100419 17:27:34< timotei> not to talk when I'm going into the stacktrace
20100419 17:27:37< timotei> ok
20100419 17:27:48< Crab_> but, generally, I switched to using non-debug build and printf debugging :) it's just faster.
20100419 17:28:00< Crab_> recompiling a debug build is so dawn slow, even with gold.
20100419 17:28:23< timotei> :P
20100419 17:28:36< timotei> well, that could be true
20100419 17:28:45< timotei> I build in release mode, but with some debugging info
20100419 17:28:50< shadowmaster> Crab_: gdb is better for tracking strange NULL pointer propagations though
20100419 17:29:02< billynux> well Crab_ , you compile with gdb information only once
20100419 17:29:14< billynux> after that, you can use gdb for anything you like
20100419 17:29:30< shadowmaster> billynux: once? at least twice if you are hacking wesnoth :P
20100419 17:29:55< shadowmaster> every change that needs testing for solving some bug in the aforementioned category, another build
20100419 17:30:00< Crab_> billynux: linking after each change is quite slow. 
20100419 17:30:12< billynux> I know... It took forever to build on my old PC
20100419 17:30:13< shadowmaster> woe betide if you are working on AI or GUI2
20100419 17:30:41< billynux> but printing to debug is tough unless you really know where the problem might be
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20100419 17:31:23< billynux> and, even though gdb might not be your friendliest ally, it certainly is a strong one :D
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20100419 17:40:12< Crab_> billynux: well, usually the general 'problem area' is known beforehand. but, I agree that gdb is useful, too. I simply, lately,  find myself using it only to get the initial backtrace.
20100419 17:41:59< billynux> Crab_, I had some rough time debugging sent packets through boost::asio, there was a difference between what was sent and what was received
20100419 17:42:01-!- coreyoliver [~coreyoliv@85.119.99.133] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 17:42:20< billynux> the bug: buffers became inconsistent during sending
20100419 17:42:25< billynux> (big headaches)
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20100419 17:44:39< timotei> Crab_, I forgot to mention, did I have to commit that command line starting patch?
20100419 17:45:11-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100419 17:47:28< Crab_> timotei: yes, it's ok for me. show it to boucman to be sure. or commit and show after that.
20100419 17:47:51< timotei> ok, I'll talk with boucman first, just to be sure
20100419 17:47:56< timotei> I don't wanna mess something:D
20100419 17:48:00< Crab_> )
20100419 17:48:27< timotei> I mean, the SVN has history, and stuff like that, but better prevent messing up
20100419 17:48:33< timotei> than trying to clean it up
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20100419 17:54:03< Crab_> billynux: and what was the cause ?
20100419 17:56:01< billynux> Crab_, the boost::asio::buffer function creates a buffer, but its your responsibility to ensure it stays valid during sending
20100419 17:56:25< billynux> meaning, the caller's responsibility, which wasn't the case
20100419 17:57:08< Crab_> ah, understood.
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20100419 17:57:27< billynux> I did something like: Message msg(param); send_data(boost::asio::buffer(msg, msg.size()) ); But msg has local scope
20100419 17:57:51< Crab_> a good solution is to wrap the buffer in an object,and log in the destructor of the object
20100419 17:58:19< Crab_> (log the address of *this, or the address of buffer if you're interested in it)
20100419 17:58:24< billynux> Crab_, check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Billynux#Buffers
20100419 17:58:25< AI0867> Soliton: ? Unsure why that's directed at me
20100419 17:58:51-!- billynux is now known as billynux-afk
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20100419 17:59:24< Crab_> billynux-afk: ok
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20100419 18:06:49< Soliton> AI0867: missing includes are fatal.
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20100419 19:09:09< timotei> hello fendrin 
20100419 19:09:20< fendrin> hi timotei
20100419 19:09:39< fendrin> timotei: I will have time in about 2 hours. Is that okay for you?
20100419 19:09:52< timotei> you are using eclipse CDT for building wesnoth/editing?
20100419 19:09:55< timotei> well, I think so
20100419 19:10:10< timotei> If I won't go to sleep, cause last days I've been just to sleepy
20100419 19:10:21< fendrin> timotei: I am using eclipse CDT for implementing core engine features. 
20100419 19:10:48< fendrin> But eclipse is not the best IDE when it comes to c++. It's just that I am used to it.
20100419 19:11:04< timotei> well, what should I use on linux?
20100419 19:11:12< timotei> I just installed it, and planning to move to it
20100419 19:12:09< timotei> ok, we'll talk later
20100419 19:12:41< happygrue> AI0867: I must play WoW you mean?
20100419 19:18:00-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 19:19:57< timotei> hello boucman 
20100419 19:20:04< boucman> hey
20100419 19:21:18< timotei> I want to ask you if is ok to commit
20100419 19:21:21< timotei> my patch
20100419 19:21:25< timotei> https://gna.org/patch/?1625
20100419 19:21:30< boucman> looking
20100419 19:21:38< timotei> Crab_ recommended me to check with you before that
20100419 19:21:56< boucman> timotei: it's assigned to crab_ so I won't ack it
20100419 19:22:04< boucman> oh, ok
20100419 19:22:06< timotei> well, that doesn't matter
20100419 19:22:13< timotei> <Crab_> timotei: yes, it's ok for me. show it to boucman to be sure. or commit and show after that.
20100419 19:22:24< boucman> if crab already said it was ok, I'll review right away
20100419 19:22:43< timotei> ok
20100419 19:24:09< boucman> timotei: it's good for me, you can commit
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20100419 19:43:56< timotei> ok, thanks
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20100419 19:50:05< AI0867> happygrue: no, google it
20100419 19:50:18< AI0867> or just follow this link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButThouMust
20100419 19:50:35-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.234.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100419 19:50:59< AI0867> reference to this: 16:25 < happygrue> "you should go to the tavern" - "we don't WANT to go to the tavern" - ... tinker tinker ... "15 Fire Drakes now stand before you and suggest you should go to the tavern..."
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20100419 19:52:04< AI0867> Soliton: EE, EoM and EoS include files from each other to see if they exist. If they don't, everything still works, an error just gets printed
20100419 19:52:19< AI0867> of course, that hasn't been tried on 1.8 yet
20100419 19:54:47< CIA-32> timotei * r42186 /trunk/ (changelog doc/man/wesnoth.6 src/game.cpp): - added some options for the --campaign option for starting wesnoth with a specified scenario/difficulty
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20100419 20:05:34< Soliton> AI0867: sure that's how it used to be.
20100419 20:16:21-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 20:16:33< mordante> servus
20100419 20:17:32< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: what's beetlenaut's situation
20100419 20:17:34< shadowmaster> ?
20100419 20:17:57< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: in his reply he stated that his internet connection is too unstable to really use svn+ssh
20100419 20:18:07< shadowmaster> ..goddammi
20100419 20:18:08< shadowmaster> t
20100419 20:18:22< shadowmaster> who will take care of that commit then?
20100419 20:18:41< shadowmaster> or commits in general.
20100419 20:19:23< Ivanovic> no idea
20100419 20:20:11< shadowmaster> esr: pling
20100419 20:21:20< esr> What's up?
20100419 20:21:33< billynux> hi mordante
20100419 20:21:38< mordante> hi billynux 
20100419 20:21:50-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100419 20:22:17< shadowmaster> esr: since we are most likely not getting beetlenaut on board, (same question I asked you ages ago already) who would you want to be in charge of DW in mainline?
20100419 20:22:51< shadowmaster> in general. There's a pending art commit, but I might bribe TSI for that
20100419 20:22:53< mordante> billynux, I was wondering about the doxygen comment and the latex documentation, do you want to include function parameters only in doxygen or both doxygen and latex?
20100419 20:23:01< esr> shadowmaster: I'll take it.  I did the adptation, and I expect maintainance issues to be minimal.
20100419 20:23:18-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 20:23:19< shadowmaster> actually, I'll have to bribe myself if I want to figure out the WML involved.
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20100419 20:23:23< shadowmaster> :/
20100419 20:23:40< billynux> I guess only doxygen
20100419 20:23:54< mordante> that answer I hoped for :-)
20100419 20:23:56< billynux> The LaTeX doc. is more of a philosophical kind
20100419 20:24:02< billynux> good! :)
20100419 20:24:32< mordante> so if I understand correctly latex general overview and doxygen function level documentation
20100419 20:24:38< billynux> yes
20100419 20:24:52< billynux> as I said, you'll read the latex doc to see what's all about
20100419 20:25:00< billynux> and the Doxygen doc to use it
20100419 20:25:07< billynux> Since we are at it mordante, anything you would like to see augmented in the proposal and/or prototype?
20100419 20:25:34< mordante> yes but it was not entirely clear to me in your google reply
20100419 20:25:45< billynux> ok, sorry
20100419 20:26:02< mordante> no problem
20100419 20:27:36< mordante> 1 sec
20100419 20:30:01< mordante> how do you prefer to work prototype and design or design first and then make a prototype?
20100419 20:30:25< billynux> design first
20100419 20:30:51< billynux> I'm prototyping right now so you can have some idea of how boost::asio works 
20100419 20:31:00< billynux> (and that I know my way around it)
20100419 20:31:46< billynux> I expect to have the API before the actual start of GSoC (which I believe is around may 24), for this I'll need input from most of you
20100419 20:32:18< mordante> ok, I've no special requests regarding the prototype, I'll wait and see what you come up with yourself
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20100419 20:32:31< billynux> ok
20100419 20:33:22< Bob_The_Mighty> can someone point me to the page on the wiki that deals with image modifications that use the ~ (like team colouring, for instance). I have no idea what this is known as, and i cannot find it now.
20100419 20:33:34< mordante> how hard will it be for you to work on trunk? I don't expect much people working on the network stuff during the summer?
20100419 20:33:44< billynux> not hard at all
20100419 20:33:54< boucman> Bob_The_Mighty: gimme a sec
20100419 20:34:08< billynux> I take it that the second phrase was a statement and not a question mordante 
20100419 20:34:10< boucman> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImagePathFunctionWML
20100419 20:34:11< shadowmaster> Bob_The_Mighty: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImagePathFunctionWML
20100419 20:34:19< shadowmaster> well.
20100419 20:34:26< Bob_The_Mighty> thanks guys
20100419 20:34:28< mordante> billynux, yes
20100419 20:34:35< boucman> np
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20100419 20:34:42< shadowmaster> can someone update that page anyway?
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20100419 20:34:54< mordante> ok since that would give the new stuff more test coverage
20100419 20:34:58< shadowmaster> those DevFeatures templates don't apply anymore and I have no idea if something else should take their place now
20100419 20:35:03< billynux> ok
20100419 20:35:04< happygrue> Bob_The_Mighty: seen this?  http://wiki.wesnoth.org//SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup
20100419 20:35:13< mordante> branches aren't tested that much and flipping a compiler switch is easy
20100419 20:35:32< billynux> yep
20100419 20:35:33< happygrue> AI0867: hehe, nice.
20100419 20:35:53< Bob_The_Mighty> I have now, still not sure what it means.
20100419 20:37:00< Ivanovic> Bob_The_Mighty: if implemented and working it means myriads of new possibilities
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20100419 20:37:27< happygrue> Bob_The_Mighty: I don't either!
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20100419 20:37:55< happygrue> Bob_The_Mighty: saving game data from multiple games on the server to create 'worlds' of interconnected maps might be the short version?
20100419 20:38:26< mordante> billynux, one more thing you should update your patches section :-P (nice job finding and patching a bug during your interview)
20100419 20:39:05< happygrue> I ask because it is the sort of thing that might give our WML people whole new realms of possibilities, but it is at the proposal stage so now is a good time for feedback on the concepts.  :)
20100419 20:39:07< Bob_The_Mighty> Really? I thought most devs were kind of against the idea of a enduring world because it would lead to all the downsides of wow.
20100419 20:39:17< Gambit> Bob_The_Mighty: Imagine variables that can be saved to the harddisk. 
20100419 20:39:27< billynux> thanks mordante, a bit of luck there I guess, since the function with the bug was not the one used in the interview (but one I asked to view the code for)
20100419 20:39:37< Gambit> Excitingness.
20100419 20:40:00< Gambit> So RE: The front page, are campaign maintainers still needed and what does that job entail/require?
20100419 20:40:14< billynux> mordante: My wiki page has that change, it is also on the changelog: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Billynux#Changelog
20100419 20:40:36< mordante> Gambit, in general yes, I think shadowmaster can answer your question in more detail
20100419 20:40:55< Gambit> It's funny you should mention him.
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20100419 20:41:14< mordante> why?
20100419 20:41:22< Ivanovic> mordante: have a look at #wesnoth
20100419 20:41:56< happygrue> Bob_The_Mighty: the IRC log for this channel a few hours ago has some disccussion about it if you are interested.  I just wanted to make you aware of it since you are one of the major WML folks in the community. :)
20100419 20:41:59< billynux> Maybe newbie question, but is there a web irc client that encapsultes traffic through a different port? They block 8001 at the univesity :(
20100419 20:42:01< Ivanovic> Bob_The_Mighty: we are not talking about just *one* huge world
20100419 20:42:05< zookeeper> Gambit, yes, some campaigns need a bit of maintenance
20100419 20:42:08< Ivanovic> Bob_The_Mighty: but possibly many
20100419 20:43:06< boucman> billynux: freenode provide a webirc  somewhere
20100419 20:43:09< Ivanovic> just have a look at todays irclogs (cf topic) to get an idea
20100419 20:43:10< mordante> billynux, I was looking at this section http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Billynux#2.6.29_If_you_have_contributed_any_patches_to_Wesnoth.2C_please_list_them_below._You_can_also_list_patches_that_have_been_submitted_but_not_committed_yet_and_patches_that_have_not_been_specifically_written_for_GSoC._If_you_have_gained_commit_access_to_our_SVN_.28during_the_evaluation_period_or_earlier.29_please_state_so.
20100419 20:43:12< Bob_The_Mighty> Sounds intriguing. Is it a pie-int-the-sky idea, or somehow feasible?
20100419 20:43:28< billynux> thanks boucman, will google it
20100419 20:43:32< shadowmaster> mordante: yeah, I'm not a mainline person
20100419 20:43:37 * mordante loves wiki links
20100419 20:43:38< shadowmaster> *campaign maintenance person
20100419 20:43:46< Ivanovic> the proposal (at least one of the proposal for a feature like this) is here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org//SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup
20100419 20:43:57< mordante> shadowmaster, no but you know what it involves
20100419 20:44:18< billynux> Ha! thanks mordante, I see../
20100419 20:44:20< Ivanovic> Bob_The_Mighty: and of course you can talk to Upthorn to refine his proposal and add things you see as missing (or at least mentioning some possible problems)
20100419 20:45:08< Ivanovic> Bob_The_Mighty: so in case that Upthorn is accepted as student for google summer of code 2010 (results will be announced on 26th, then it is sure), he will be working on implementing his proposal over the summer
20100419 20:45:10< mordante> billynux, luckily you didn't update it since to my browser had an old version of the page without that changelog entry ;-)
20100419 20:45:12< happygrue> Bob_The_Mighty: it is a proposal from one of the Google Summer of Code applicants, so if he is accepted then it is more than just feasable, it will be worked on :)
20100419 20:45:25< shadowmaster> Gambit: it involves courage, strength, courage and...zookeeper knows better the mainline campaign maintenance business
20100419 20:45:26 * happygrue was beaten to the punch!
20100419 20:45:32< Ivanovic> :)
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20100419 20:45:59< mordante> billynux, I've no further questions for you, do you have questions left?
20100419 20:46:03< shadowmaster> I've just updated http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImagePathFunctionWML btw
20100419 20:46:30< billynux> not ATM, thanks for your time
20100419 20:48:29< mordante> you're welcome
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20100419 20:48:58< happygrue> on the topic of persistant game world, one idea that I think would be fun is a campaign where the diffuclty of successive scenarios depends somehow on the how well the 'other team(s)' are doing.  For example, the elves in their campaign win some battles and it makes the corresponding scenarios for the orc team harder and vice versa, and whichever team makes it the farthest wins (perhaps in a world conquest random map style)
20100419 20:49:11< happygrue> but RPG ideas abound also.
20100419 20:49:42< happygrue> (I assume something along those lines would be possible)
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20100419 20:50:57< Gambit> happygrue: More than that, it had been discussed the possibility to have teams join and split.
20100419 20:51:14< Gambit> The elves could be directly fighting the orcs on one scenario, and then off fighting AI the next.
20100419 20:51:21< Gambit> And then back togethor again.
20100419 20:51:28< Gambit> ^^ orcs and elves both being human players.
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20100419 20:53:35< happygrue> sounds like fun to me :)
20100419 20:54:50< boucman> hmm
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20100419 20:55:16< boucman> if we want to implement things like that, we will need a WML way to test "has a registered username"
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20100419 20:58:16< billynux> I'm off, bye y'all, bye mordante, see you around
20100419 20:58:49< Bob_The_Mighty> I remember an experiment on the forums ages ago where someone had managed to get a map image overlayed on the actual game board. anyone know where i can track this down or learn of it?
20100419 20:59:03< mordante> bye billynux 
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20100419 21:00:01< boucman> ouch...
20100419 21:00:18< mordante> ?
20100419 21:00:26< zookeeper> Bob_The_Mighty, i remember the thread but can't find it
20100419 21:00:31< boucman> Bob_The_Mighty: there are no limits to unit sprite side, so a way of doing it would be using a special unit with a huge image
20100419 21:01:01< zookeeper> Bob_The_Mighty, but it's not difficult really
20100419 21:01:17< zookeeper> although you might get unexpected layering effects with stuff
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20100419 21:03:05< Bob_The_Mighty> could i place a item with a huge image?
20100419 21:03:13< shadowmaster> halo
20100419 21:03:28< shadowmaster> [item] x,y=...  halo=<path> [/item]
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20100419 21:06:49< mordante> Greywhind, around?
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20100419 21:19:33< CIA-32> mordante * r42187 /trunk/src/game.cpp: Fix some compiler warnings.
20100419 21:20:56< mordante> I'm off night
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20100419 21:26:54< CIA-32> shadowmaster * r42188 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/ (12 files in 5 dirs): 
20100419 21:26:54< CIA-32> This is supposed to update DW to match the current version in the
20100419 21:26:54< CIA-32> add-ons server somehow. (Graphic updates apparently.)
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20100419 21:41:26< Bob_The_Mighty> Am i right in thinking that [object] description= does not take pango? if so, why?
20100419 21:42:27-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100419 21:44:51< shadowmaster> why do you think so?
20100419 21:47:06-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Client Quit]
20100419 21:47:33< shadowmaster> anyway, yeah it doesn't
20100419 21:48:07< Bob_The_Mighty> i tried it and failed, just checking
20100419 21:48:24< boucman> shadowmaster: easy to fix ?
20100419 21:48:24< shadowmaster> in such case you already confirmed that it doesn't use pango markup :)
20100419 21:48:37< shadowmaster> boucman: no idea, and I'm not in the mood to compile this monster
20100419 21:48:42< boucman> k
20100419 21:48:44< shadowmaster> I'm also leaving in 2 minutes
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20100419 21:54:20< Greywhind> hm. looks like I missed mordante
20100419 21:55:13< boucman> yup...
20100419 21:56:14< Greywhind> ah well.
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20100419 22:15:30< Ivanovic> Greywhind: though he tends to read the logs
20100419 22:15:40< Ivanovic> Greywhind: so if you want to tell him something, just leave a message in here
20100419 22:15:55< Greywhind> Ivanovic: he asked if I was around earlier - not sure what he wanted to say
20100419 22:16:00< Greywhind> Ivanovic: probably something about my patch
20100419 22:16:05< Ivanovic> probably
20100419 22:16:11< Ivanovic> has he left a comment in the patch itself?
20100419 22:16:41< Greywhind> good question
20100419 22:17:06< Ivanovic> Greywhind: since you probably submitted it with your gna account you might have a notification about an update
20100419 22:17:20< Ivanovic> esr, zookeeper2: any idea about this one? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15912
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20100419 22:19:49< esr> Ivanovic: The criticism appears sound to me.  Zookeeper is probably better to address it than me, as he has more xperience tuning bonuses.
20100419 22:20:34< esr> I just assigned it to him.
20100419 22:21:21< Ivanovic> okay
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20100419 22:30:34< zookeeper> Ivanovic, esr, ok, i'll deal with it sometime soon..
20100419 22:31:52< esr> OK.
20100419 22:34:45< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42189 /trunk/ (13 files in 13 dirs): updated Polish translation
20100419 22:34:50< CIA-32> ivanovic * r42190 /branches/1.8/ (13 files in 13 dirs): updated Polish translation
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 20 00:00:30 2010