--- Log opened Fri Apr 30 00:00:33 2010
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20100430 00:10:07< Crab_> wajimba: bugs.wesnoth.org, for example
20100430 00:10:27< Crab_> https://gna.org/bugs/?func=additem&group=wesnoth
20100430 00:13:15-!- Impaler [~chatzilla@c-71-202-57-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 00:13:21< Impaler> hello
20100430 00:13:47< Impaler> anyone home
20100430 00:13:47< Crab_> hi, Impaler
20100430 00:14:10-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 00:14:30< Impaler> howdy, I was hoping to find out a bit about the managment structure of Wesnoth
20100430 00:14:55< Impaler> To perhapse apply it to my own project
20100430 00:15:55< Impaler> Anyone familiar with how Wesnoth development is managed?
20100430 00:16:20< Crab_> Impaler: generally it's all about communication.
20100430 00:17:33< Crab_> Impaler: the main communication channels are's IRC (this channel, mainly), the mailing lists, the bug tracker at gna.org, on-commit mail messages and cia notifications, etc
20100430 00:17:50< Crab_> so, it's pretty easy for a developer to find out what's going on, who has done what, etc
20100430 00:18:05< Sirp> Impaler: however, start off simple and add more infrastructure as needed.
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20100430 00:18:29< Impaler> Cool, is their a lead developer?
20100430 00:18:46< Impaler> How are creative differences settled?
20100430 00:19:32< Sirp> yes, I'm the lead developer.
20100430 00:19:38< Crab_> Impaler: in general, 'whoever cares most about a particular piece of code has more weight in decisions about that particular piece of code'
20100430 00:19:48< Sirp> generally in any area I appoint someone to be responsible for that area, and they are.
20100430 00:19:54< Sirp> and yes, what Crab_ said
20100430 00:20:24< Impaler> Nice to meet you then Sirp
20100430 00:20:32< Sirp> nice to meet you.
20100430 00:21:00< Impaler> so when you say 'area' you mean both the gameplay design and code underlying a feature?
20100430 00:21:45< Sirp> I mean more like art, music, translactions, etc.
20100430 00:22:02-!- gabba [~gabriel@70.35.167.54] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 00:22:04< Sirp> in terms of gameplay design, I designed most of the broad rules for gameplay early on and we haven't changed them a great deal since.
20100430 00:22:18< Impaler> IC
20100430 00:23:00< boucman> hey gabba
20100430 00:23:07< gabba> hey boucman
20100430 00:23:14< boucman> i'm semi-afk, but i'm here if there is something you want to discuss
20100430 00:23:58< Impaler> I noticed you have iPhone versions for sale at the app store, how dose that revenue stream get used considering the project is OpenSource?
20100430 00:24:26< gabba> boucman: ok - I'll be posting a plan for the following days on the mailing list some time tonight
20100430 00:24:48< boucman> gabba: ok, i'll probably reply tomorow during your night
20100430 00:26:08< Sirp> Impaler: well it is fed back to support the project.
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20100430 00:26:35< Impaler> pays for webhosting?
20100430 00:26:36< Sirp> server expenses, stipends to support developers...
20100430 00:27:34-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 00:27:45< Impaler> Interesting
20100430 00:27:46< norbert_> Sirp, are you around?
20100430 00:27:56< Sirp> norbert_: yes, what's up?
20100430 00:28:08< norbert_> hi Sirp; great game by the way :D
20100430 00:28:24< norbert_> I have a question about the server handshake
20100430 00:28:27< Impaler> second!
20100430 00:28:38< norbert_> I send \0\0\0\0 and receive \0\0\0<nr> of my connection
20100430 00:28:57< norbert_> then I get 4 more chars and then the gzipped [version] package
20100430 00:29:24< norbert_> I tried replying with [version] version = 1.8.0 [/version] in gzip format, but the server keeps disconnecting me
20100430 00:29:50< norbert_> my question is what the 2nd set of 4 chars are in the handshake, and if you have any idea why the server doesn't accept my version gzip package
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20100430 00:32:50< gabba> zookeeper: thanks for letting me know about the eventual "moveover" WML events. Up to now that possibility doesn't really seem to complicate my work, but I'll make sure to take them into account.
20100430 00:36:33< norbert_> Sirp?
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20100430 00:37:36 * boucman thinks we should never have introduced that particular event...
20100430 00:38:05< Sirp> norbert_: I don't know. The way I'd find the answer would be to look at the source code for the server, so I suggest you do the same. :)
20100430 00:38:29< norbert_> okay; did that; was hoping that maybe you remembered
20100430 00:38:31< Crab_> norbert_: I'd say "try using tcpdump to see what data is actually sent by wesnoth's MP client"
20100430 00:38:46< Sirp> norbert_: nope, I don't.
20100430 00:38:54< Sirp> haven't worked on that code in over a year
20100430 00:39:14< Crab_> norbert_: or launch the server in gdb and track down the reason for disconnection
20100430 00:40:24< Crab_> norbert_: afair, the MP server has to be quite picky about the WML 'canonical format' (for performance reasons). so, even an extra space should screw it up. 
20100430 00:40:55< ilor> the server might require double quotes around values
20100430 00:41:10< Sirp> norbert_: yeah look at simple_wml.cpp for the parser the server uses.
20100430 00:41:22< norbert_> I know what it's sending
20100430 00:41:31< norbert_> doesn't require quotes
20100430 00:41:37< gabba> boucman: zookeeper told me moveover events don't exist yet, actually. What's the status on that, and are they evil?
20100430 00:42:06< boucman> gabba: i might be thinking of something else
20100430 00:42:14< norbert_> I'll try gdb
20100430 00:43:40< Crab_> gabba: they're not evil by themselves. i.e., there's even one hardcoded moveover event in the game
20100430 00:43:43< gabba> ilor: you should be able to downgrade a package by doing something like this: sudo apt-get install empathy=2.30.0.1-1+ppa9.10+1
20100430 00:44:15< ilor> gabba: synaptic shows me no other versions available for the sdl package
20100430 00:44:17< Crab_> gabba: (the 'new enemy sighted' event which interrupts the move if a preference allows that)
20100430 00:44:19< gabba> Crab_: ok
20100430 00:44:31< Crab_> they're slightly easier to misuse
20100430 00:44:34< gabba> ilor: ah, if it's the only one available in the repos that's another story
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20100430 00:44:52< ilor> gabba: tbh for the moment the right-left click combo workaround works well enough for what testin I do
20100430 00:45:37< Crab_> and, it will open it's own can of worms.
20100430 00:45:55< gabba> ilor: I think I'm gonna resist the urge to upgrade to Lynx for a good month :P
20100430 00:46:10< Crab_> for example unit moves A -> B -> C -> D, and is on moving to B, it hits a moveover even which creates a new unit at C
20100430 00:46:19< Crab_> s/even/event
20100430 00:46:50< ilor> gabba: I was happy for a moment because they had boost 1.41 in the repos... but they removed it
20100430 00:47:35< Crab_> the 'obvious' solution 'always interrupt the move if wml events mutate the game state' has drawbacks like 'if wml event does something not seen, the interrupted move would be seen by player as a glitch
20100430 00:48:24< Crab_> so, solution for moveover and sighted (btw, isn't sighted a subtype of moveover?) will most likely involve a wml key for 'should we interrupt the move?'
20100430 00:48:49< gabba> Crab_: ah, I see the potential interaction with planned moves
20100430 00:49:15< Crab_> gabba: no, no additional problems for planned moves
20100430 00:49:21< Crab_> gabba: as there's "ambush" already :)
20100430 00:49:42< Crab_> as ambush interrupts the move..
20100430 00:49:56< Crab_> since ambush is a form of moveover, too.
20100430 00:50:06< gabba> Crab_: well, I guess that if the move isn't interrupted we can assume that planned moves are not affected...
20100430 00:50:25< Crab_> gabba: no
20100430 00:50:43< Crab_> gabba: 'recalculate conflicts' still needs to be fired, I think
20100430 00:50:47< ilor> night
20100430 00:50:50< Crab_> ilor: night
20100430 00:50:58< gabba> night ilor
20100430 00:51:32< Crab_> gabba: 'is move interrupted?' only works in one way - should we 'pause' the execution even if everything seems ok with this particular move, or not ?
20100430 00:51:37< gabba> Crab_: but then, the player could see visible changes in the planned moves, revealing some invisible change?
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20100430 00:52:46< Crab_> gabba: yes, it might happen. imagine a wml event which can change movement type of units - it can change pathfinding routines and the conflicts can become different
20100430 00:52:55< Crab_> s/routines/results
20100430 00:53:26< gabba> Crab_: until the player (and planned move system) regains back the control from whatever move or event is going on, there's no advantage of recalculating conflicts
20100430 00:53:50< Crab_> well, when the unit moves, you can move your mouse around, isn't it ?
20100430 00:53:55< gabba> so I guess "move interrupted" would mean the unit stops and the player can do something
20100430 00:54:17< gabba> Crab_: well yeah, but not much else AFAIR
20100430 00:54:46< Crab_> ok
20100430 00:54:55< Crab_> but I was thinking about something slightly different...
20100430 00:55:21< gabba> Crab_: it's all a bit hazy right now :)
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20100430 00:56:54< Crab_> when moveover event is fired, there are different cases 1) it's possible to continue the move, move is not interrupted 2) it's possible to continue the move, move is interrupted 3) it's not possible to continue the move, move is interrupted  4) it's not possible to continue the move, move is not interrupted
20100430 00:57:18< Crab_> in (1) we can simply continue the move, returning control to the planning code after the move
20100430 00:58:02< Crab_> in (2), we stop because we were told to interrupt the move - the planned move might still show up
20100430 00:58:27< Crab_> in (3) we can either display the planned move as a 'hard conflict' or clear that planned move
20100430 00:59:19< Crab_> (4) will lead to interruption from the internal movement routine, when it'll detect an illegal hop
20100430 00:59:21< norbert_> I also noticed that "wesnothd --log-debug=all --log-error=all --log-warning=all --log-info=all" isn't giving me any debug information
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20100430 00:59:46< Crab_> norbert_: what about just --log-debug=all ?
20100430 00:59:53< norbert_> with wesnoth -v I get some; and those --log-<level> things do work for the wesnoth executable
20100430 01:00:29< norbert_> yeah, but not that much, like -v
20100430 01:00:41< Crab_> gabba: so, returning to  "well, I guess that if the move isn't interrupted we can assume that planned moves are not affected..."...
20100430 01:00:54< norbert_> a _lot_ less than --log-debug=all for wesnoth itself; when it comes to the network stuff
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20100430 01:02:03< Crab_> gabba: 'isn't interrupted' are cases (1) and (4) from the above
20100430 01:02:38< Crab_> gabba: and the question is: should we ask the game engine to return control to us prematurely in those cases, if the new situation interferes with our planning ?
20100430 01:04:07< Crab_> I guess that the simpler answer is 'no' (and it can be fixed later, in desired)
20100430 01:04:11< Crab_> what do you think ?
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20100430 01:05:33< Crab_> gabba: (I can explain in more detail, if needed)
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20100430 01:06:50< gabba> Crab_: sorry, I have to go afk for a while - we'll continue discussing this later, I'm interested
20100430 01:06:56< Crab_> ok
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20100430 01:13:48< norbert_> ah, I found it
20100430 01:14:07< norbert_> :)
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20100430 01:16:45< YogiHH> night everyone
20100430 01:16:53< Crab_> night, YogiHH
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20100430 01:25:55< CIA-10> crab * r42313 /trunk/src/ai/ (14 files in 4 dirs): reduce AI header dependencies
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20100430 01:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 101 bugs, 273 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100430 03:15:59< wajimba> crab_: thanks, just created one
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20100430 07:01:16< ancestral> Hopefully it's not taboo… and I apologize if it comes off the wrong way as I am humbly curious, but any knowledge on approximately when we may see a 1.8.1 release?
20100430 07:05:09< Issyl> before fall
20100430 07:05:10< Issyl> :3
20100430 07:06:01< ancestral> Hey, at least we've got a season
20100430 07:06:27< ancestral> I suppose there's nothing preventing me from building
20100430 07:06:37< ancestral> building from trunk
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20100430 07:25:02< Soliton> this weekend or the next, i think.
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20100430 07:34:06< Upthorn> ancestral: trunk is 1.9
20100430 07:34:40< ancestral> Upthorn: Oops, good point
20100430 07:35:05< ancestral> Soliton: Cool beans, muchas gracias
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20100430 07:44:59< Soliton> ancestral: you can build from branches/1.8
20100430 07:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 102 bugs, 273 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100430 08:01:22< YogiHH> hello
20100430 08:08:20< Issyl> hi
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20100430 09:03:34< Ivanovic> moin
20100430 09:06:02< YogiHH> hi Ivanovic 
20100430 09:06:21< Ivanovic> hi YogiHH
20100430 09:06:36< Ivanovic> how comes that you are around at this time, do you have a free day?
20100430 09:06:52< YogiHH> well, an office day rather :)
20100430 09:06:58< YogiHH> home office, that is
20100430 09:07:33< Ivanovic> ahhh
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20100430 09:29:24< timotei> hello everyone
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20100430 09:30:43< Issyl> hello timotei
20100430 09:31:14< timotei> hello Issyl 
20100430 09:31:35< timotei> hey, fendrin
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20100430 09:32:28< timotei> didn't manage do do anything yesterday, since some last-minute things needed to be done, and my visual studio is stupid. everytime I restart the computer (or something like that) it compiles everything:(
20100430 09:33:05< Ivanovic> timotei: btw have you managed to get all your hardware work under linux?
20100430 09:33:09< timotei> today I'll have aprox 8 hours free as in free, so I'll dive in it
20100430 09:33:42< timotei> Ivanovic, well, installed mandriva to try, no success. in the end installed sabayon, and waiting for Espreon to help me a little
20100430 09:34:16< timotei> but I won't let it go, I really need to switch to linux
20100430 09:34:17< Ivanovic> wlan and sound not working, or what are the problems?
20100430 09:34:30< timotei> yes, those two.
20100430 09:34:36< timotei> the wlan works from time to time :))
20100430 09:34:45< timotei> but for now in windows
20100430 09:34:57< Ivanovic> uhm, okay, from time to time is strange...
20100430 09:35:09< Ivanovic> regarding sound: have you made sure to unmute the mixer channels?
20100430 09:35:10< timotei> and I don't get it, bluetooth works well on EVERY distro I've tried...
20100430 09:35:23< timotei> Ivanovic, I have "found" the problem with sound
20100430 09:35:27< timotei> it's from pulse
20100430 09:35:38< Ivanovic> then, uhm, remove pulseaudio and go for plain alsa
20100430 09:35:40< timotei> if I install pulse (or some newer versions) it breaks
20100430 09:36:09< Ivanovic> in sabayon, which is just some derivate from gentoo, you probably just have to add an entry to /etc/make.conf
20100430 09:36:17< timotei> yes, that why I installed sabayon, that way I don't need to remove half of my system due to the dependencies
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20100430 09:36:57< Ivanovic> in the USE="many use -flags -some active some -not" area just make sure that you have these two in:
20100430 09:37:03< Ivanovic> alsa -pulseaudio
20100430 09:37:34< Ivanovic> (those with a '-' in front indicate "if possible i do not want to have this feature" where the plain name of the flag states "want to have this if possible")
20100430 09:37:45< timotei> yeah
20100430 09:38:05< timotei> but last time Espreon indicated me the steps to make, no succeded
20100430 09:38:15< timotei> so I reinstalled from plain, and I'm gonna try it again
20100430 09:38:40< Ivanovic> here is an example how a rather tuned make.conf can look: http://pastebin.com/nWtbF5nB
20100430 09:39:57< Ivanovic> of course i also got several package specific flags
20100430 09:40:14< timotei> you have gentoo?
20100430 09:40:19< Ivanovic> yes#
20100430 09:40:22< timotei> nice :D
20100430 09:41:05< Ivanovic> especially since it "just works"
20100430 09:41:23< timotei> on desktop or notebook?
20100430 09:41:45< Ivanovic> both
20100430 09:41:58-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100430 09:42:38< Ivanovic> eg on my laptop i installed it once about two years ago right after buying the tablet and since then i only updated, no reinstalls needed, nothing
20100430 09:43:10< Ivanovic> and on my desktop i even made a "hot switch" from 32bit to 64bit as well as changes of the mainboard and cpu
20100430 09:43:28< Ivanovic> ("hot switch" meanng that i just recompiled stuff, no need for a complete reinstall)
20100430 09:45:06< timotei> oh, nice
20100430 09:45:24< timotei> I think I'm not prepeared to build gentoo from source (yet)
20100430 09:45:54< Ivanovic> yes, when i started linux "for real" i went the hardcore way learning things via linux from scratch
20100430 09:46:14< Ivanovic> that is: got a good friend (maintainer of the german translation of wesnoth) who helped me with this
20100430 09:46:22< timotei> :D
20100430 09:47:06< timotei> right now I need an ide to build wesnoth
20100430 09:47:34< Ivanovic> sorry, won't be of any help there
20100430 09:47:45< timotei> yes, no problem
20100430 09:47:46< Ivanovic> i always build from command line and beside this you are on windows at the moment
20100430 09:48:12-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-4-146-106.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100430 09:48:17< timotei> well, I was saying that, in the way that I need a "good" linux up and running
20100430 09:48:21< Ivanovic> the last time i used a windows system for anything compiling or work related was in my second term at university when i only had a wlan stick with windows only drivers...
20100430 09:48:22< timotei> the part with compiling is easy
20100430 09:48:49< Ivanovic> (and no integrated wlan in my laptop at that time)
--- Log opened Fri Apr 30 10:04:33 2010
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20100430 10:04:46-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 102 bugs, 273 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100430 10:04:46-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Fri Apr 30 07:50:59 2010]
20100430 10:04:46[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100430 10:04:46[ ABCD     ] [ dtiger   ] [ happygrue] [ nagbot      ] [ Upth     ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ AI0867   ] [ erl      ] [ Ingmar   ] [ qemqemqem   ] [ Upthorn  ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ ancestral] [ Espreon  ] [ isaac    ] [ Rhonda      ] [ Vetinari ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ AnMaster ] [ esr      ] [ Issyl    ] [ shadowmaster] [ wesbot   ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ apoi     ] [ ettin    ] [ Ivanovic ] [ shikadibot  ] [ YogiHH   ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ Bocom_   ] [ fendrin  ] [ knotwork ] [ Sirp        ] [ zookeeper] 
20100430 10:04:46[ CIA-10   ] [ freim    ] [ lobby    ] [ Smar        ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ ctrlfrea1] [ gabba    ] [ lukjad86 ] [ Tigge       ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ drusepth ] [ Greywhind] [ mjs-de   ] [ timotei     ] 
20100430 10:04:46-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal]
20100430 10:04:52-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 10:04:56-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20100430 10:05:59-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 80 secs
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20100430 10:27:59< ancestral> Forum maintenance?
20100430 10:31:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100430 10:41:37< Soliton> more like random reboot...
20100430 10:42:09< Ivanovic> but the machine down for some 10mins?
20100430 10:42:12< Ivanovic> that is really a lot
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20100430 11:13:01< fendrin> hi timotei
20100430 11:13:06< timotei> hi fendrin 
20100430 11:13:23< fendrin> timotei: Can we find a time when we meet regularly?
20100430 11:13:39< timotei> well
20100430 11:13:58< timotei> should be the same hours across the days?
20100430 11:14:07< timotei> Or something like a schedule for each day is good enough?
20100430 11:14:15< fendrin> I am fine with both.
20100430 11:14:17< timotei> I'll make one for you if it is ok
20100430 11:14:19< timotei> ok
20100430 11:14:32< timotei> time in GMT, right?
20100430 11:15:09< fendrin> timotei: It's 11.15 here, what time is it around you?
20100430 11:15:15< timotei> 12.15
20100430 11:15:18< timotei> youre +1 me +2
20100430 11:15:32< timotei> I'll put it in your time
20100430 11:16:30< fendrin> Monday, Tuesday and Thursday I am back home from scool at 18:30
20100430 11:16:52< timotei> that's ok for me
20100430 11:18:00< fendrin> Okay, so we mat at these days at that time. 19:30 your time.
20100430 11:18:17< timotei> yes
20100430 11:19:36< timotei> what about wed and fri?
20100430 11:19:50< timotei> so I can tailor based on your program
20100430 11:20:38< fendrin> tailer baded program?
20100430 11:20:46< fendrin> s/baded/based
20100430 11:21:22< fendrin> I have time all friday from 13 on.
20100430 11:21:31< timotei> I mean, tell me when you're online, and between that time I'll tell my availability
20100430 11:21:44< timotei> friday from 13 on is good for me too
20100430 11:21:44< fendrin> Okay, we will see how this works out.
20100430 11:21:58< fendrin> Let's define what you expect from me as your mentor.
20100430 11:22:19< timotei> well, when I don't know what way I should go, then I'll ask you what to do
20100430 11:22:36< timotei> in the case for example I have multiple ways of working out a different task
20100430 11:25:50< timotei> is that ok?
20100430 11:25:51< fendrin> Well I would like to give you only suggestions no commands. Except there is a way that is really a no go.
20100430 11:26:04< timotei> yes, suggestions
20100430 11:26:08< fendrin> It
20100430 11:26:24< fendrin> is not good that I make all the design and you are only a code slave.
20100430 11:26:38< timotei> well, yes of course
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20100430 11:28:02< fendrin> I would like to expect from you that you point out problems early on. You are in now and there is no need to hide critical information out of fear or doubt.
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20100430 11:29:26< timotei> sorry, xchat broke
20100430 11:29:50< fendrin> [11:28] <fendrin> I would like to expect from you that you point out problems early on. You are in now and there is no need to hide critical information out of fear or doubt.
20100430 11:34:25< fendrin> timotei: Still around?
20100430 11:34:31< timotei> yes
20100430 11:35:16< timotei> but, in what sense: " hide critical information out of fear or doubt."
20100430 11:36:20< fendrin> There is a phenomenon that in hierarchical structured organizations there is a tendency to hide information from the upper layer.
20100430 11:36:45< timotei> oh, I see
20100430 11:37:33< fendrin> The thematic is complex, I wish I had a nice URL for it.
20100430 11:38:20< timotei> :)
20100430 11:38:54< timotei> so, I should take decisions, and assume their "consequences"
20100430 11:39:11< timotei> that's what I understand from the "code slave" sentence
20100430 11:39:25< fendrin> Right, it is your project, not mine.
20100430 11:40:57-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 11:44:10< timotei> Crab_, I turned off the debugging in VS but I don't see any compiling time improvements
20100430 11:44:57< timotei> or maybe there is a problem with my windows (even though installed it only 2 months ago)
20100430 11:47:30< knotwork> http://www.whatsinthebag.us/?title=communication_is_possible_only_btwn_equa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
20100430 11:49:35< timotei> knotwork, the first link in the article works for you?
20100430 11:49:38< timotei> http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2007/12/31/the-strategic-value-of-listening/
20100430 11:50:19< YogiHH> timotei: The "critical information" stuff is important for managing things. The sooner we know about problems, the more options we have to deal with them (for example via adjusting the feature list if it turns out the schedule was too optimistic).
20100430 11:50:41< knotwork> no. I merely searched for the discordian snafu principle then ended up having to search directly for "communication is possible only between equals"
20100430 11:52:11< timotei> ok
20100430 11:52:20-!- timotei is now known as timotei_away
20100430 11:52:24< knotwork> (because including the word discordian hauls in a whole lot of not so directly relevant discordianism)
20100430 11:53:06< Crab_> timotei_away: compiling time improvements are for incremental builds. e.g., there's now a smaller number of magic headers which force the rebuild of the entire src/ai
20100430 11:53:41< Crab_> timotei_away: and, 'turning off debugging' will decrease link time, not compile time
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20100430 12:02:53< timotei> Crab_, ah, ok
20100430 12:04:01< timotei> Crab_, I had an issue which I didn't understand
20100430 12:04:23< Crab_> which one ?
20100430 12:05:49< timotei> well, I realized when I was trying to write it, why it didn't work out.
20100430 12:06:05< timotei> I made a new function in preprocess.cpp, but it wouldn't get recognized until I included it in the hpp too.
20100430 12:06:23< timotei> but since we include only the .hpp file we can't get the definition of that function
20100430 12:06:33< timotei> I think I'm too used with C#'s styles
20100430 12:06:40< timotei> (yet)
20100430 12:08:14< Crab_> well, you don't need to know a definition to use the function. you only need a declaration, which you usually get from including  a c++ header file.
20100430 12:08:33< timotei> yes, sorry, declaration
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20100430 12:13:06< loonycyborg> Does anyone else get an SQL ERROR when trying to access the forums?
20100430 12:13:16< fendrin> loonycyborg: yes
20100430 12:13:18< Crab_> yes
20100430 12:13:36< Crab_> and wiki is live, so it's a forum DB issue.
20100430 12:15:31< timotei> how can I change the thing after: timotei@ in my IRC?
20100430 12:15:41< timotei> so no IP showed
20100430 12:16:06< fendrin> timotei: ask Ivanovic for registering your nick.
20100430 12:16:13< loonycyborg> Ask Ivanovic to provide a project cloak for you.
20100430 12:16:25< timotei> I've already registered my nickname. ok
20100430 12:16:34< Crab_> timotei: then hunt for Ivanovic :)
20100430 12:16:50< timotei> Ivanovic, ping
20100430 12:17:31< Ivanovic> Greywhind, Upthorn, timotei: do you want a project cloak in the form of wesnoth/developer/USERNAME ?
20100430 12:17:48< Ivanovic> timotei: i'd like to do it in a block, thus asking for the others, too
20100430 12:17:58< timotei> Ivanovic, ok, thanks
20100430 12:18:07< Ivanovic> gabba, billynux, darkas: do you want a project cloak in the form of wesnoth/developer/USERNAME ?
20100430 12:18:45< Ivanovic> gabba, billynux, darkas, Greywhind, Upthorn, timotei: to be able to get this clock behind your NAME@ thingie you need to register your nick at nickserv
20100430 12:19:09< timotei> YogiHH, you use git on winodws?
20100430 12:19:15< timotei> s/winodws/windows
20100430 12:22:13< Upthorn> Ivanovic: no thanks. I'm involved in a couple of other projects also on freenode
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20100430 12:28:17< timotei> if I want to add an optional string parameter, what's the "good" default empty value?
20100430 12:28:21< timotei> std::string opt = ""
20100430 12:28:23< timotei> is ok that?
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20100430 12:28:32< Crab_> std::string opt; ?
20100430 12:28:53< timotei> but is that still optional?
20100430 12:29:09< Crab_> yes, there is no 'null' std::string
20100430 12:29:33< timotei> ok
20100430 12:30:22< fendrin> timotei: You can go the way and make the string a pointer, that way you can have the null pointer as default. 
20100430 12:32:46< Crab_> well, if you test if it's set by testing  for the string being 'empty()', then there's no need for that
20100430 12:33:09< timotei> yes, I'm using 'empty()'
20100430 12:45:36< YogiHH> timotei: not really, i installed git but didn't try it seriously :)
20100430 12:47:09< timotei> ok
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20100430 13:13:50< Crab_> wesbot: seen silene
20100430 13:13:50< wesbot> Crab_: The person with the nick silene last spoke 11d 5h ago.  11d 3h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100430 13:21:56< YogiHH> afk
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20100430 13:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 102 bugs, 273 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100430 14:05:02< CIA-10> fendrin * r42314 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: Enabled sharing the view through fogs between the allied elves.
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20100430 14:06:19< Gambit> Anyone else getting strange SQL errors on the forums?
20100430 14:06:29< Crab_> yes
20100430 14:06:36< Gambit> Oh okay.
20100430 14:06:36< Rhonda> Yes, it's in repair mode.
20100430 14:07:23< Gambit> Thanks.
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20100430 14:27:53< mordante> servus
20100430 14:28:04< Crab_> hi, mordante
20100430 14:28:07< timotei> hello mordante 
20100430 14:28:10< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20100430 14:28:12< mordante> hi timotei 
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20100430 14:58:20< YogiHH> Sirp, do you remember what was the idea of storing the number of calls to the RNG? It doesn't seem to have any use as far as i can see.
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20100430 14:59:04< Crab_> YogiHH: one potential use might be to to check for ooses
20100430 14:59:21< CIA-10> fendrin * r42315 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (4 files in 2 dirs): More keeps in LoW 1 + 2 MP.
20100430 14:59:27< YogiHH> Crab_: Shouldn't the random numbers themselves be sufficient for that?
20100430 14:59:51< Crab_> YogiHH: yes
20100430 14:59:54< fendrin> YogiHH: There seems to be a bug in the MP setup code still.
20100430 15:00:15< timotei> fendrin, I just used preprocess
20100430 15:00:19< timotei> on LOW directory, for testing
20100430 15:00:33< timotei> and it seems the game has already predefined the MULTIPLAYER define
20100430 15:00:44< Crab_> fendrin: why extra keeps are only for RNG ?
20100430 15:01:05< Crab_> fendrin: wouldn't it hurt balancing the maps ?
20100430 15:01:17< fendrin> RNG?
20100430 15:01:25< Crab_> oops :)
20100430 15:01:30< Crab_> I meant 'MP' :)
20100430 15:01:44< Crab_> but the fingers typed RNG ;)
20100430 15:02:01< fendrin> Ah yes, we have multiple leaders in SP as well.
20100430 15:02:28< fendrin> Right, it doesn't make sense to do it for MP only.
20100430 15:02:30< Crab_> yes. are those keeps far from each other ? or they are nearby ?
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20100430 15:02:46< fendrin> Crab_: They are near each other on the most maps.
20100430 15:02:46< Crab_> e.g., if the keeps are in different places they add strategic value to maps
20100430 15:02:52-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 15:03:30< Crab_> e.g. "Landar, you go there, to that keep, and draw attention while I (Kalenz) run to this exit waypoint"
20100430 15:03:43< Crab_> or "you cover that flank,  I cover this'
20100430 15:03:48< fendrin> Crab_: Have you already implemented different recruit lists per leader?
20100430 15:04:03< Crab_> fendrin: no, but my hands are free to do that now
20100430 15:04:22< fendrin> Crab_: That would be very cool.
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20100430 15:09:25< Crab_> fendrin: afair, you were coding a 'create\select unit' dialog in gui2... was it done ?
20100430 15:10:20< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, it's kind of working. But it still has some problems for example does the gui2 not allow sorting or filtering.
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20100430 15:19:08< norbert_> my nick isn't registered on the server
20100430 15:19:16< norbert_> is that because the forum is down?
20100430 15:19:29< Crab_> yes
20100430 15:19:35< norbert_> ok
20100430 15:19:43< norbert_> I got a working bot
20100430 15:19:47< Crab_> cool!
20100430 15:19:59< Crab_> in what language it's coded ?
20100430 15:20:02< norbert_> in C
20100430 15:20:11< norbert_> I have only one problem remaining
20100430 15:20:15< Crab_> which one ?
20100430 15:20:30< norbert_> if I run wesnothd on my machine, the bot can connect and login and everything
20100430 15:20:45< norbert_> but when I connect to server.wesnoth.org 25000, it gets stuck at the handshake
20100430 15:20:54< Crab_> isn't it 15000 ?
20100430 15:21:00< norbert_> eh, yeah, that's what I mean
20100430 15:21:01< Crab_> and does it handle redirects ?
20100430 15:21:11< norbert_> it does, but the problem is the handshake
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20100430 15:22:03< norbert_> I put the socket on non-blocking and wait for read != -1
20100430 15:22:08< norbert_> but I never receive data
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20100430 15:22:37< billynux> hi
20100430 15:22:41< Crab_> norbert_: maybe you meant 'blocking' ?
20100430 15:22:47< Crab_> norbert_: or, else, how you wait ?
20100430 15:22:52< Crab_> hi, billynux
20100430 15:22:59< norbert_> I wait with a while loop
20100430 15:23:12< norbert_> after the handshake, I go to blocking
20100430 15:23:20< norbert_> because then I known the packet sizes
20100430 15:23:45< norbert_> err, then I know when data is coming, is what I mean
20100430 15:23:56< Crab_> are you sending the same data as wesnoth client ?
20100430 15:23:56< billynux> hi Crab_. norbert_: working on the stats?
20100430 15:24:04< norbert_> Crab_: yes
20100430 15:24:12< Crab_> billynux: no, a bot to connect to wesnoth mp server
20100430 15:24:19< Crab_> billynux: norbert_ coded it in C
20100430 15:24:24< billynux> ok
20100430 15:24:25< Crab_> billynux: but there's an issue...
20100430 15:24:32< billynux> which is?
20100430 15:24:48< Crab_> (04:20:38 PM) norbert_: if I run wesnothd on my machine, the bot can connect and login and everything
20100430 15:24:48< Crab_> (04:20:53 PM) norbert_: but when I connect to server.wesnoth.org, it gets stuck at the handshake
20100430 15:25:17< norbert_> maybe
20100430 15:25:22< norbert_> it has to do with the forum being down?
20100430 15:25:27< norbert_> probably not though... neh
20100430 15:25:32< Crab_> well, if wesnoth client can login...
20100430 15:25:35< norbert_> yeah
20100430 15:25:45< billynux> address resolution is taken care of?
20100430 15:26:11< norbert_> yes; hHostInfo = gethostbyname (sHostAddr);
20100430 15:26:19< norbert_> that works, since I also use "localhost" as a var
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20100430 15:26:45< norbert_> and it does connect, and I can send the handshake; it just doesn't reply
20100430 15:31:42< norbert_> but I'll figure out a way to fix it
20100430 15:33:39< timotei> ok, guys see you later
20100430 15:33:47< Crab_> timotei: bye
20100430 15:33:51< timotei> Crab_, you'll be online in +2,3 hours?
20100430 15:34:04< timotei> I've found something weird in the Legend of wesmere campaign
20100430 15:34:07< Crab_> timotei: no, going away in 0.5 h and will be in +7 h
20100430 15:34:10< Crab_> what is it ?
20100430 15:34:11< timotei> ok
20100430 15:34:17< timotei> we'll talk later then
20100430 15:34:18< timotei> cya
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20100430 15:40:30< Crab_> hi, fakedrake
20100430 15:43:02< CIA-10> crab * r42316 /trunk/ (17 files in 7 dirs): move wesnoth lua ai support from scripting/lua.?pp into separate files in src/ai/lua/
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20100430 15:46:58< Ivanovic> fakedrake: you submitted a patch some weeks ago
20100430 15:47:04< Ivanovic> what is the current status of that one?
20100430 15:48:17< fakedrake> a patch?
20100430 15:48:19< fakedrake> oh
20100430 15:48:22< fakedrake> i remember
20100430 15:48:32< fakedrake> sory i had completely forgot about it
20100430 15:48:41< fakedrake> i ll look into it now
20100430 15:48:46< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/patch/?1608
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20100430 15:52:57< CIA-10> mordante * r42317 /trunk/doc/design/gui2/progress_bar.hpp: Fix some references in the design document.
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20100430 15:54:39< billynux> hi mordante 
20100430 15:54:47< mordante> hi billynux 
20100430 15:55:25< billynux> Crab_, mordante, Ivanovic , I'm working in some design documentation: 1. Module view (pretty colors, etc). 2. UML
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20100430 15:55:42< Ivanovic> billynux: so you want a cloak?
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20100430 15:56:04< Ivanovic> something like @wesnoth/developer/billynux
20100430 15:56:08< mordante> nice billynux :-)
20100430 15:56:11< billynux> ?
20100430 15:56:15< Ivanovic> Darkas: same regarding you
20100430 15:56:28< Ivanovic> billynux: have a look how the join messages look
20100430 15:56:39< billynux> what do you mean a "cloak" ?
20100430 15:56:41< Ivanovic> the cloak replaces the IP info with the text
20100430 15:57:12< fakedrake> ok i found it
20100430 15:58:06< billynux> ahh.... so it would be something like billynux@wesnoth/developer joined? (I didn't get it)
20100430 15:58:35< Ivanovic> yes
20100430 15:58:45< YogiHH> mordante: Here is another compiler warning i get, can you have a look at that, please?
20100430 15:58:49< YogiHH> mordante: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/C1eFZaSG
20100430 16:00:02< CIA-10> mordante * r42318 /trunk/doc/design/gui2/widget_definition.cpp: Fix some formatting in the design documentation.
20100430 16:00:20< mordante> YogiHH, in a se
20100430 16:00:22< mordante> sec*
20100430 16:01:05< YogiHH> mordante: sure, it's not urgent, but it might have potential to cause some trouble :)
20100430 16:01:59< mordante> billynux, the gui2 changes are not part of 1.8 or better said I don't plan to finish them there
20100430 16:02:25< mordante> you can apply the changes there but not really needed
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20100430 16:03:17< billynux> ok mordante, I thought I needed to take that out as well, but those changes couldn't be applied to 1.8. Crab_ I think said those were actually gui1 changes I needed to do to remove the stats stuff.
20100430 16:04:03< Ivanovic> billynux: don't mix things up!
20100430 16:04:14< Ivanovic> billynux: the *exact* config changes that mordante applied are GUI2
20100430 16:04:17< Crab_> Ivanovic: no, it might be me who was mistaken
20100430 16:04:18< mordante> billynux, no since the gui2 version isn't used yet only available hidden under and experimental flag
20100430 16:04:30< Ivanovic> but there are some other changes that are valid in general
20100430 16:04:38< Ivanovic> those include the tip of the day entry
20100430 16:05:32< Ivanovic> that is regarding the comments in the patch tracker
20100430 16:05:36< Ivanovic> since those are valid
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20100430 16:12:54< billynux> Maybe the phrase was "mixing things up" Ivanovic, but I understood that right now gui1 changes are needed. So I'll completely remove the BEG_FOR_UPLOAD option
20100430 16:14:20< billynux> Ivanovic: So... take that out, update the changelog, add my name to contributors if not there, update every projectfiles entry and resubmit the patch?
20100430 16:16:37< billynux> should I remove preferences::has_upload_log() as well? -> guessing yes
20100430 16:21:15< CIA-10> mordante * r42319 /trunk/doc/design/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Add the window part to the design document.
20100430 16:26:02< mordante> billynux, yes that also needs to be removed
20100430 16:26:28< mordante> billynux, IIRC there's also a special tip of the day for the upload log
20100430 16:27:09< mordante> and yes update all project files and the proper POTFILES.in (I think po/wesnoth/POTFILES.in)
20100430 16:27:38< mordante> and yes a changelog entry and your name in about.cfg
20100430 16:27:45< billynux> ok
20100430 16:28:41< freim> forum down again?
20100430 16:29:31< mordante> looks like it
20100430 16:30:22< billynux> mordante: http://tinypic.com/r/k1f13l/5
20100430 16:34:08< billynux> mordante: @imagebin: http://imagebin.org/95082
20100430 16:36:49< billynux> where is that "tip of the day?"
20100430 16:37:13< mordante> billynux, ok, you want feedback on it?
20100430 16:37:34< mordante> I'll have a look in a sec
20100430 16:37:44< mordante> for the tip
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20100430 16:39:05< billynux> feedback would be nice, yes. For example: do you want to add an operation to the API that forces the user to keep the buffer alive while sending? -> harder on him, better efficiency
20100430 16:39:41< CIA-10> mordante * r42320 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: 
20100430 16:39:41< CIA-10> Fix compiler errors and warnings.
20100430 16:39:41< CIA-10> Crab_ please review the patch.
20100430 16:40:43< billynux> right now there is a send operation that creates a copy of the whole buffer (intense heap operations)
20100430 16:42:21< mordante> harder depends, if the user switches from raw boost::asio to ana s/he already has code to keep buffers alive
20100430 16:42:50< billynux> true...
20100430 16:42:57< mordante> ideally you have two functions one that needs the user to keep the buffer alive the other not
20100430 16:43:07< billynux> yes, I'll add that functionality
20100430 16:43:54< billynux> that even allows me to implement stuff like: send_to_all_with_duplicate_buffer will create one buffer and use it to send it to everybody with client_proxy::send_with_my_buffer
20100430 16:44:15< mordante> and the latter handles the buffer and calls the former
20100430 16:45:43< mordante> billynux, regarding the library you want to commit it in the root directory of the wesnoth checkout I assume?
20100430 16:46:38< billynux> I guess so
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20100430 16:46:58< billynux> but I still want other people to be able to download it and compile it as a lib
20100430 16:47:06< billynux> (i.e. download only ana)
20100430 16:47:50< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42321 /trunk/ (15 files in 14 dirs): updated Russian translation
20100430 16:47:59< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42322 /branches/1.8/ (15 files in 14 dirs): updated Russian translation
20100430 16:48:16< billynux> mordante: what do you think about the buffer as a parameter? right now its typedefed to std::string
20100430 16:48:27< billynux> but I should allow char* + size_t
20100430 16:49:41< mordante> I think that would be a good idea somebody might also like std::vector<char> better as buffer
20100430 16:50:18< billynux> maybe add a struct: server_->send_all( ana::buffer( cast<char*>(&wml_doc), wml_doc.bytes() ) )
20100430 16:50:45< mordante> billynux, at least during the development during gsoc I like to have the code in our codebase
20100430 16:51:05< mordante> once more mature I think it can become its own project
20100430 16:51:26< billynux> yes, sure. Where in the trunk though?
20100430 16:51:51< mordante> I think the root is a nice place since there's the intention to split it off later
20100430 16:54:27< billynux> great, so trunk/ana. And for compilation in wesnoth, do you want to compile/install the lib? or use it directly?
20100430 16:54:44< mordante> statically linked for now
20100430 16:55:22< mordante> if we split it will be easier
20100430 16:55:24< billynux> ok, but only to *one* binary
20100430 16:56:22< mordante> I think it needs to be linked to the servers and game binary
20100430 16:56:31< billynux> meaning: I don't want to list all the implementation files if they will be removed later
20100430 16:56:33< billynux> yes
20100430 16:57:01< mordante> "meaning: I don't want to list all the implementation files if they will be removed later" what do you mean with that?
20100430 16:57:44< billynux> what I meant is: link with only one binary (which will be compiled separately)
20100430 16:58:32< billynux> in wesnoth's src/CMakeLists.txt you won't have ana's asio implementation files listed, you'll link to trunk/ana/ana.o or whatever
20100430 16:58:33< mordante> I'm not sure what you mean, but three binaries need the code wesnoth, wesnothd (and possibly campaignd)
20100430 16:58:41< billynux> exactly
20100430 16:59:15< mordante> no I don't want to link to ana.o but to ana.a 
20100430 16:59:25< billynux> ok
20100430 16:59:55< mordante> it's just another library which we produce ourselves 
20100430 17:00:02< billynux> ok
20100430 17:00:37< mordante> do you know which build system you want to use for ana later on?
20100430 17:00:49< billynux> CMake
20100430 17:00:59< mordante> only cmake?
20100430 17:01:13< billynux> actually I think I should support autotools, CMake and SCons now
20100430 17:01:25< billynux> (so Wesnoth can compile with all of them)
20100430 17:01:34< mordante> yes I just wonder about the future
20100430 17:02:00< billynux> well, If I have those 3 now, they'll propagate :)
20100430 17:02:06< mordante> :-)
20100430 17:02:16< mordante> ok
20100430 17:02:18< billynux> I just dislike autotools :) so many files... so many tools :(
20100430 17:02:57< loonycyborg> billynux: If you want any help with scons ask me.
20100430 17:03:10< billynux> ok loonycyborg, thanks! :D
20100430 17:03:33< billynux> mordante: so... I'll keep at it with the upload_log stuff, expect the new patch in about 1 or 2hrs
20100430 17:04:14< billynux> mordante: after that, UML. Do you want one UML of the API alone? (i.e. no asio implementation stuff there)
20100430 17:04:15< mordante> billynux, did you also make changes to titlescreen.cpp, there the links to the tops are
20100430 17:04:22< mordante> tips*
20100430 17:04:47< mordante> and in data/hardwired/tips.cfg the first one is the one to be removed
20100430 17:05:25< billynux> ok. That sounded yoda'ish :D... and "yes, my master" :D
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20100430 17:05:50< mordante> billynux, I like the UML of ana and if you already have a design document I also like that 
20100430 17:06:05< billynux> define "design document"
20100430 17:06:27< billynux> the aforementioned LaTeX/pdf?
20100430 17:06:36< mordante> jup
20100430 17:07:15< billynux> Ok... that and doxygen comments I'll start after we finalize the API methods
20100430 17:08:02< billynux> mordante: and... please suggest better class names: ListenerHandler sucks
20100430 17:08:03< mordante> and since the parts of ana don't influence our code I wouldn't mind if you already commit what you have
20100430 17:08:36< mordante> I already like listener_handler much better ;-P
20100430 17:09:01< mordante> we don't use camel case in Wesnoth and I prefer to keep it that way
20100430 17:09:47< billynux> ok, I'll clean it up a bit and commit there, so I can start working on wesnoth's repository (I have permissions I assume)
20100430 17:10:20< billynux> yes, I didn't see anything on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards, but I prefer small caps as well
20100430 17:10:50< mordante> I think Ivanovic wanted to tips patch in first, but as long as it's in /ana only I think all's fine
20100430 17:11:15< mordante> and I expect you'll be designing a bit more before touching the Wesnoth main code
20100430 17:11:25< Ivanovic> i'd like to see the removal of the uploader done *really* soon
20100430 17:11:31< billynux> yes, certainly
20100430 17:11:40< Ivanovic> because i want to release in less than 24h
20100430 17:11:45< mordante> Ivanovic, <billynux> mordante: so... I'll keep at it with the upload_log stuff, expect the new patch in about 1 or 2hrs
20100430 17:11:53< billynux> :)
20100430 17:12:10< billynux> ok, brb: off to buy lunch (ugly sandwiches :( )
20100430 17:12:10-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.1 planned for May 1st 13:00 GMT+2 | 102 bugs, 273 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100430 17:12:16< mordante> billynux, true it's not in the coding standards ;-)
20100430 17:12:45< mordante> I'm also about to go off to eat some food
20100430 17:17:10< loonycyborg> mordante: Why don't you like CamelCase? :)
20100430 17:17:38< loonycyborg> s/don't you/you don't
20100430 17:18:16 * mordante is confused by loonycyborg's fix
20100430 17:18:32 * loonycyborg was not sure about grammar
20100430 17:18:46 * billynux agrees with mordante, don't you was fine
20100430 17:18:50< mordante> don't you was good
20100430 17:19:19< mordante> in case of doubt keep your first attempt ;-)
20100430 17:19:52< mordante> I just dislike it, looks weird to me, especially since the Wesnoth codebase doesn't use it
20100430 17:20:17< billynux> or you can always use disjunction: ' I'm sure its either "don't you" or "you don't" '
20100430 17:20:26< mordante> if we would be a CamelCaseProject I would object less
20100430 17:20:32< YogiHH> i like CamelCase, but i don't use it. There is nothing worse than half a dozen different coding styles floating around
20100430 17:20:37< billynux> and... BIG CAPS always look annoying/distracting
20100430 17:20:52< loonycyborg> Those are reserved for macros
20100430 17:21:07< YogiHH> and enums?
20100430 17:21:25< loonycyborg> Not sure. Probably not.
20100430 17:21:28-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100430 17:21:45< mordante> I use them for enums as well, but also not really convinced about them
20100430 17:22:07< billynux> and... I like to begin with (not end with) underscore attributes (as in _size instead of size_) 
20100430 17:22:29< billynux> "to begin attributes with..."
20100430 17:22:34< YogiHH> lol, where are the underscores :)
20100430 17:22:54< loonycyborg> I'm trying to maintain this convention in a project of mine: camel case for type names and small letters + _ for everything else.
20100430 17:23:24< mordante> YogiHH, I love to get all random errors with gui in them :-P but I think this patch fixes your gui1 problem http://paste.debian.net/71397/
20100430 17:23:45< mordante> YogiHH, can you test it, if it works I want to add some comment and commit the fix
20100430 17:24:06< YogiHH> mordante: I know it was gui1, but i have another good excuse: It's german ;)
20100430 17:24:33< mordante> :-)
20100430 17:25:11< mordante> I like to prefix types with a t in their name
20100430 17:25:51< billynux> mordante: std::string upload_id() should go too right?
20100430 17:26:11< billynux> it seems to be only upload_log-related
20100430 17:27:06< mordante> billynux, indeed
20100430 17:27:48-!- k23z__ [~k23z__@unaffiliated/k23z--/x-2536701] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 17:28:58< YogiHH> mordante: yep, that works
20100430 17:32:26< CIA-10> mordante * r42323 /trunk/src/ (floating_textbox.cpp floating_textbox.hpp): 
20100430 17:32:26< CIA-10> Fix a MSVC compiler error.
20100430 17:32:26< CIA-10> The problem was reported and the patch tested by YogiHH. I didn't check whether
20100430 17:32:26< CIA-10> the scoped_recource really needs a complete type, just changed it for MSVC.
20100430 17:32:36< mordante> YogiHH, committed the fix with an extra line of comment^
20100430 17:32:42-!- PK [~pk@r74-192-30-57.bcstcmta01.clsttx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 17:32:50< YogiHH> ok, thanks
20100430 17:33:20-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@84-50-143-71-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100430 17:35:25< mordante> you're welcome
20100430 17:36:29-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 17:44:52< billynux> mordante: replay::add_log_data goes?
20100430 17:50:57-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-4-146-106.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 17:53:32< billynux> guys... I see a ton of files which reference upload_log.cpp
20100430 17:53:42< billynux> .po files I mean
20100430 17:55:19< Ivanovic> that is normal
20100430 17:55:31< Ivanovic> ignore all .po and .pott files
20100430 17:55:32< loonycyborg> billynux: They're generated.
20100430 17:55:35< Ivanovic> s/pott/pot
20100430 17:57:09 * billynux is very relieved!
20100430 17:58:38< billynux> manual.txt references uploading
20100430 18:01:05< billynux> Ivanovic, what should I add in the changelog and where? "Removed the stats upload feature"?
20100430 18:06:03< billynux> mordante, Ivanovic, anyone? where in the changelog? Version 1.8.0+svn/Miscellaneous and bug fixes ?
20100430 18:09:15-!- Sirp__ [~97c1dc1c@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 18:11:55< billynux> hi 
20100430 18:12:43< billynux> hi Dave/ Sirp__ , I'm about to send a patch RE removal of the upload stats feature. Should that go in Version 1.8.0+svn/Miscellaneous and bug fixes section in the changelog?
20100430 18:13:08< Sirp__> billynux: talk to Iavnovic about that.
20100430 18:13:43< billynux> I know, he was not replying
20100430 18:16:13-!- ilor [~ilor@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 18:20:09< billynux> Ivanovic, I resubmitted the patch with the discussed changes: https://gna.org/patch/index.php
20100430 18:20:32< billynux> https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1654
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20100430 18:39:23< mordante> billynux, I had a quick look at your patch, normally we only maintain the cmake, scons and autotools project files
20100430 18:39:51< billynux> meaning...?
20100430 18:39:53< mordante> the others are left for those who use them, since their changes might be tricky (especially with adding files)
20100430 18:40:03< billynux> ok
20100430 18:40:32< billynux> what I had to do didn't look tricky... but I can't test it
20100430 18:40:40< billynux> should I revert those changes?
20100430 18:40:46< mordante> I'd say leave them for now, I just wanted to let you know
20100430 18:40:53< billynux> ok, and ok
20100430 18:40:58-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 18:41:54< mordante> well for example I don't know whether dev-c++ likes the holes you left or that everything should be renumbered (IIRC it doesn't mind)
20100430 18:43:23-!- YogiHH [YogiHH@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
20100430 18:44:07< mordante> regarding the manual it should also be removed and it seems 'save' to do eg no strings modified only removed
20100430 18:45:01< mordante> and FYI on irc it sometimes takes a while for people to reply
20100430 18:46:57< billynux> I know... but since Ivanovic wanted this "really soon"...
20100430 18:47:20< billynux> I didn't understand your comment about the manual
20100430 18:47:44< Ivanovic> billynux: doc/manual/manual.txt
20100430 18:48:23< Ivanovic> remove lines 175 to 179
20100430 18:48:23< billynux> yes... should I modify it? removing references to the upload stats stuff?
20100430 18:48:39< mordante> billynux, it's about the translations, when we change a string we need to wait a week before releasing it
20100430 18:48:58< mordante> but you will only remove strings so no work for the translators
20100430 18:49:10< billynux> ok, and leave the DevC++ VC9 modifications?
20100430 18:50:25< mordante> I just checked devC++ has more 'holes' so I'd say leave them and MSVC also looks save
20100430 18:50:52< billynux> s/save/safe/ ? 
20100430 18:50:52< mordante> so feel free to leave them, since you already modified them
20100430 18:50:55< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42324 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Polish translation
20100430 18:50:57< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42325 /branches/1.8/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Polish translation
20100430 18:51:13< mordante> yes safe, thanks
20100430 18:51:36< billynux> Ivanovic: and I added "Removed stats upload feature" in the  Version 1.8.0+svn/Miscellaneous and bug fixes section. That ok?
20100430 18:51:58< Ivanovic> sounds okay (if you mean the changelog with this)
20100430 18:52:34< billynux> yes, ok, resubmitting with the manual modification
20100430 18:53:35< mordante> thanks
20100430 18:53:36-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100430 18:53:57-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 19:01:07< Ivanovic> okay, i am off for the evening, cu
20100430 19:02:00< mordante> bye Ivanovic 
20100430 19:02:26< norbert_> I have a question about the redirect tag in cfg file for wesnothd
20100430 19:02:46< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: When are the translations due for 1.8.1?
20100430 19:03:10< Aethaeryn> If it's some reasonable timeframe, I'll try to both review the submission I have and try to do the server string changes.
20100430 19:03:45< mordante> Aethaeryn, Ivanovic wants to release this weekend so I'd say asap
20100430 19:03:49< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: in time for the topic
20100430 19:03:53< Ivanovic> there is when i plan to tag
20100430 19:04:00< norbert_> I don't know if this channel is the right place to ask though
20100430 19:04:16< Ivanovic> norbert_: it is
20100430 19:04:34< norbert_> okay, I have a  test.cfg that I use like this: wesnothd -c test.cfg
20100430 19:04:42< norbert_> it contains motd="welcome", which works
20100430 19:05:05< norbert_> and a [redirect] host="127.0.0.1" port="14999" version="*" [/redirect]
20100430 19:05:15< norbert_> the motd is being displayed, but redirect doesn't happen
20100430 19:06:06< norbert_> the question is, why is the redirect being ignored
20100430 19:06:22< Aethaeryn> So 1100 GMT?
20100430 19:06:31< Ivanovic> better paste your complte config file at pastebin.com
20100430 19:06:33< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: no
20100430 19:06:34< Ivanovic> SA
20100430 19:06:38< Ivanovic> saturday, may 1st
20100430 19:06:49< Ivanovic> 18 hours from now
20100430 19:07:08< norbert_> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/jX6FfaW6
20100430 19:08:17< Ivanovic> have you tried if more relaxed redirecting is possible?
20100430 19:08:24< Ivanovic> that is: a "redirect everything" might not work
20100430 19:08:40< Ivanovic> and: do you really have a machine named 127.0.0.2?
20100430 19:08:44< norbert_> I also tried 1.8* and 1.8.0
20100430 19:09:00< norbert_> no, I want an error message
20100430 19:09:01< norbert_> to test
20100430 19:09:12< Aethaeryn> I can't access my PM inbox.
20100430 19:09:18< Aethaeryn> It gets a phpBB error
20100430 19:09:54< norbert_> so, 14999 isn't open; 0.0.2 was just a typo; but it doesn't matter :)
20100430 19:10:16< mordante> Aethaeryn, the entire forum is down
20100430 19:10:54< norbert_> "player joined using accepted version 1.8.0:     telling them to log in."
20100430 19:11:35< norbert_> also when I do version="1.8*"
20100430 19:11:40< norbert_> and I do use 1.8.0
20100430 19:11:59< norbert_> it should not tell the client to login, it should redirect
20100430 19:13:05< billynux> mordante: RFC http://imagebin.org/95092
20100430 19:13:30< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: should I be working off of wesnoth-1.8/po or wesnoth-trunk/po or both?
20100430 19:14:31-!- yann [~dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 19:14:32< loonycyborg> mordante: It seems to be back up now.
20100430 19:14:56< Aethaeryn> the forum is mostly up but I still error on my PM section
20100430 19:15:02< Aethaeryn> I can, for instance, go to the User's Forum
20100430 19:15:20< mordante> loonycyborg, after refreshing for me as well
20100430 19:16:00< mordante> Aethaeryn, work on the 1.8 po files IIRC normally Ivanovic does the backporting to trunk if the patch applies
20100430 19:16:02< Aethaeryn> even on wesnoth.org/forum (vs. forums.wesnoth.org) where there wouldn't be a cache issue
20100430 19:16:23< Aethaeryn> mordante: So translating on trunk is mostly for late devel when a new release is coming soon?
20100430 19:16:28< Aethaeryn> Like Latin last time.
20100430 19:16:30< mordante> Aethaeryn, yes
20100430 19:16:40< Aethaeryn> ok, makes sense.
20100430 19:16:52< mordante> billynux, it seems your image is truncated
20100430 19:17:11< mordante> does it miss info?
20100430 19:17:41< Aethaeryn> My translator (should be two but only one has submitted updates this year) probably is working off of 1.8 only anyway. Only a special subclass of uberfans keep 1.8 SVN, development, and trunk releases simultaneously installed. :)
20100430 19:18:18< Soliton> norbert_: you have no versions_accepted entry so it uses the default..
20100430 19:18:37< mordante> Aethaeryn,  keeping up with translations in trunk is like running after a train
20100430 19:18:37< billynux> no mordante, I guess umbrello just fumbles up and over-truncates the edges
20100430 19:18:46< Soliton> norbert_: it never gets to a redirect.
20100430 19:18:53< Aethaeryn> ah, right, I think I started Latin after the string freeze.
20100430 19:19:07< norbert_> Soliton: if I change version to "1.8*" it doesn't redirect either
20100430 19:19:17< Soliton> of course.
20100430 19:19:30< norbert_> why not? :|
20100430 19:19:33< norbert_> I don't understand it
20100430 19:19:40< mordante> Aethaeryn, which is when the train stands still at the station
20100430 19:19:41< Soliton> that's the default accepted version.
20100430 19:19:55< norbert_> version in [redirect] is "A comma separated list of versions to redirect."
20100430 19:20:03< Aethaeryn> I didn't think about how strings/trains move around a lot.
20100430 19:20:04< Soliton> it never gets there.
20100430 19:20:19< Soliton> we first accept versions then check for redirects.
20100430 19:20:26< norbert_> so, [redirect] only works if versions_accepted is specified
20100430 19:20:29< mordante> billynux, ok I would change the ClientSelector classes to something like send_predicate
20100430 19:20:45< billynux> ok
20100430 19:20:46< Soliton> no, i versions_accepted doesn't already match.
20100430 19:20:50< Soliton> s/i/if/
20100430 19:21:00< Aethaeryn> Oh, I have a related translation problem. I would like to translate my own add-ons as I add/change the strings on wesnoth-umc-dev. I never play a tagged and published version of my add-ons, and I never publish until I stamp all the bugs I discover in playtests.
20100430 19:21:21< Aethaeryn> But I would like to play my own stuff in the translation I lead. A half-translated Wesnoth is no fun so I do MP in English.
20100430 19:21:26< norbert_> so, I should have versions_accepted="1.6" (for example) and then redirect version="1.8*" ?
20100430 19:21:26< mordante> billynux, also wonder whether we should remove send_all and have a predicate that accepts everything
20100430 19:21:36< Soliton> norbert_: yes.
20100430 19:21:42< norbert_> oh
20100430 19:22:01< billynux> mordante: I considered leaving virtual bool operator()(ClientID) = 0... but it is not good manners (so I opted for select)
20100430 19:22:22< norbert_> Soliton: I'm not sure the documentation is clear on this
20100430 19:22:29< billynux> mordante: I wouldn't remove send_all
20100430 19:22:34< Soliton> norbert_: patches welcome.
20100430 19:22:44< norbert_> Soliton: :)
20100430 19:22:46< billynux> mordante: You could implement it differently though
20100430 19:23:40< Soliton> norbert_: could add a hint to the redirect entry that versions_accepted must not match for it to take effect.
20100430 19:24:55< Soliton> norbert_: similar for proxy which is checked after accepted and redirect.
20100430 19:26:43< mordante> billynux, ok
20100430 19:32:40< mordante> billynux, I assume you made a conscient decision to use send_one send_all instead of overloading a send function
20100430 19:33:57< billynux> mordante: Yes... current wesnoth code uses these types of methods. Do you think I should overload a single send operation?
20100430 19:34:42< mordante> well you can do it, however that something is possible doesn't mean you need to do it
20100430 19:35:01< mordante> personally I like overloading better if the function does the same
20100430 19:35:02< billynux> I know, and I actually prefer it this way, a little more verbose about intentions
20100430 19:35:10< mordante> exactly
20100430 19:35:49< mordante> it would even be possible to use one send for the 3 versions, but I don't like that idea
20100430 19:36:04 * Soliton &
20100430 19:36:10< billynux> option is: send(msg), send(msg, client_id) and send(msg, client_predicate)
20100430 19:36:50< billynux> doesn't look bad... its just candy coating: do you want to rule on this? (meaning: decide)
20100430 19:37:19< mordante> well I like to know why do decided to choose something ;-)
20100430 19:37:40< mordante> personally I like the current way better no need to look at the parameters to see what the function does
20100430 19:38:35< billynux> my sentiments exactly, as I said, more verbose, clearer interface
20100430 19:39:46< billynux> philosophy wise, one must remember that overloading the same operation name is implementing different methods...
20100430 19:40:00< billynux> one is putting to much semantics on the amount and types of parameters
20100430 19:40:15< billynux> instead of using the "free" method_name semantic
20100430 19:40:24< billynux> s/to much/too much/
20100430 19:44:57< mordante> agreed
20100430 19:48:26-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: bbl]
20100430 19:48:27< mordante> I think the diagram looks fine
20100430 19:49:09< Aethaeryn> does any translator know where the server strings are? it's not wesnoth-multiplayer
20100430 19:49:18< Aethaeryn> (though I did find two easy strings to change there)
20100430 19:50:29< mordante> Aethaeryn, grep does ;-
20100430 19:50:31< mordante> )
20100430 19:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.1 planned for May 1st 13:00 GMT+2 | 103 bugs, 273 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100430 19:52:30< gabba> hi
20100430 19:53:33< gabba> Ivanovic: the project cloak would be nice, I already registered with nickserv as gabba
20100430 19:55:05< zookeeper> gabba, saw my comment i left for you in the logs the other day?
20100430 19:55:48< gabba> zookeeper: yes, I think I left you a message about that
20100430 19:56:11< zookeeper> oh. i haven't checked for that :P
20100430 19:56:20< gabba> :)
20100430 19:56:40< mordante> hi gabba 
20100430 19:56:48< gabba> hi mordante
20100430 19:57:01< mordante> billynux, you have more documentation for me to look at or later?
20100430 19:57:49< gabba> zookeeper: I ended up discussing those moveover events quite a bit with Crab_, but the discussion is ongoing since I had to leave before we were finished
20100430 19:58:18< billynux> later
20100430 19:58:24< mordante> ok
20100430 19:58:38< billynux> mordante: anything you would like to see next?
20100430 19:59:06< zookeeper> gabba, ok. i'm kinda afk now so i'll check the logs later...
20100430 19:59:14< gabba> zookeeper: alrigh
20100430 19:59:19< gabba> alright
20100430 20:03:16< mordante> billynux, no do it in the order you prefer to do it in
20100430 20:03:45< billynux> ok, I have a revised class diagram now, but its the same, but with better/different names
20100430 20:05:26< mordante> ok, I will also think about names
20100430 20:07:30< billynux> that's ok mordante, enough name thinking: I changed SenderHandler to send_handler, ClientSelector to client_predicate and then just using small_caps
20100430 20:08:00< billynux> also, a NetClient is now a client, KISS
20100430 20:08:37< mordante> and the server?
20100430 20:10:32-!- lfernando_ [~luiz@201-92-120-137.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 20:11:23< billynux> you just said it mordante :)
20100430 20:11:44< billynux> server is a server, if you want to use a variable with that name don't put a using namespace ana
20100430 20:12:28< billynux> so... ana::server server(31337); ...
20100430 20:13:56-!- lfernando [~luiz@201-92-120-137.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100430 20:14:10< mordante> ok
20100430 20:14:12< billynux> mordante: http://imagebin.org/95099 (since you were curious)
20100430 20:14:29< mordante> in general I think using using namespace is rather evil
20100430 20:14:57< billynux> I agree... just don't name your modules classes loooooong
20100430 20:15:07< billynux> ana::server looks fine and short enough
20100430 20:15:19< Sirp__> mordante: I think using namespace is okay as long as you don't put it in a header file or above where header files are included.
20100430 20:15:31< Sirp__> and in general put it in the smallest scope where you're using it.
20100430 20:15:42 * billynux agrees with Dave
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20100430 20:16:46< mordante> Sirp__, as long as the scope is rather small it's not a big problem, but I personally don't like it too much
20100430 20:17:04< mordante> although with boost::asio the temptation is there
20100430 20:17:04< Sirp__> it is something to be used judiciously
20100430 20:17:27< Sirp__> the other option is to selectively import symbols
20100430 20:17:45< mordante> jep, just like goto's they are useful at times, but overusing them makes a mess
20100430 20:18:07< billynux> yes... using boost::asio:tcp::star_wars::padawans::jar_jar::binks is just darn right annoying :)
20100430 20:18:35< mordante> billynux, a namespace jar_jar is already annoying ;-)
20100430 20:21:22< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I've almost prepared what I have into something sendable... I might try to get one more submission in before 1.8.1, but realistically, it will probably be the final submission before 1.8.1 now
20100430 20:22:07< mordante> billynux, why has _generic_predicate a leading underscore, an abstract class
20100430 20:22:28< billynux> its not intended for direct use
20100430 20:22:42< billynux> thats why there is a create_predicate function
20100430 20:23:05< billynux> to which you can pass a functor taking a client_id 
20100430 20:23:48< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Is it okay that the ones submitted by the translater are older PO files (i.e. you have some automatic fix) or should I try to hand-copy over all his changes to the latest 1.8 SVN PO file? The latter would be very time consuming.
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20100430 20:27:07< mordante> billynux, that function is not in the diagram?
20100430 20:27:13< Aethaeryn> I'll be ready to submit if I don't need to copy the strings
20100430 20:27:56< billynux> mordante: no -> it should. How do you add a namespace function ?
20100430 20:28:10< billynux> (I mean, in a UML diag.)
20100430 20:28:40< mordante> no idea, but a more common solution is to have a static member function called create
20100430 20:29:21< mordante> then you can make all constructors private, making sure nobody but the class can create instances
20100430 20:29:49< mordante> depending on the copy policy the copy and assignment operator are also private
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20100430 20:32:18< billynux> ok, but I do want the copy constructor public there
20100430 20:33:38< mordante> like I said that depends on the copy policy you want
20100430 20:34:29< fendrin> mordante: Please explain more. I have spotted a private copy constructor and was not sure what to think about it.
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20100430 20:35:47< mordante> fendrin, some classes are considered non-copyable which we do by either making the copy constructors private or inheriting from a class that does (boost::noncopyable)
20100430 20:36:11< mordante> the reason for not making classes copyable can be a several
20100430 20:36:25< loonycyborg> C++0x will add deleted constructors for that..
20100430 20:36:40< mordante> I know and a default one
20100430 20:36:58< mordante> eg when copying you need to do an expensive operation you want to avoid
20100430 20:37:23< mordante> and it also forces you to send parameters by reference instead of by value
20100430 20:38:26< mordante> and for widgets I see no need to copy them and making them copyable is a lot of work so make them not copyable
20100430 20:38:37< mordante> trying to copy a widget is often a mistake as well
20100430 20:39:09< gabba> mordante, billynux: a jar_jar namespace eh? about this annoying character, I found this comic hilarious: http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0018.html and http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0020.html
20100430 20:39:33< fendrin> mordante: Okay, I think I got the concept. Thank you.
20100430 20:40:00< loonycyborg> I'm wondering what will be best thing to use with C++0x. boost::noncopyable seems shorter than deleted methods but I heard that it can cause diamond of death issues :P
20100430 20:40:17< billynux> gabba: :D :D In boost its using boost::asio::ip::tcp; (which is not that long, just annoying to go through 4 namespaces)
20100430 20:40:40< mordante> fendrin, and of course to make sure nobody tries to copy your singleton you also need to make in non copyable
20100430 20:41:07< gabba> billynux: oh I see, you didn't exaggerate *that* much
20100430 20:41:14< mordante> loonycyborg, diamond of death?
20100430 20:41:19< fendrin> mordante: I thought so, knowing the singleton concept from java.
20100430 20:41:33< loonycyborg> mordante: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_of_Death
20100430 20:42:18< mordante> loonycyborg, that only happens if you inherit virtually from boost::noncopyable
20100430 20:43:46< billynux> isn't that something you can solve with public virtual inheritance? (I do so in my prototype)
20100430 20:44:01< mordante> loonycyborg, personally I like the = deleted version 
20100430 20:44:33< loonycyborg> Probably that's not strictly diamond problem. Someone on #boost said that they didn't like boost::noncopyable because it can cause unneeded overhead with multiple inheritance IIRC
20100430 20:44:57< mordante> billynux, what do you mean with "solve"
20100430 20:45:34< billynux> I meant "solved problems caused by diamond inheritance"
20100430 20:46:28< mordante> gabba, I said it's all ii needs is that creatures name to be annoying ;-)
20100430 20:47:54< gabba> mordante: I agree with that, the name is hair-raising by itself :)
20100430 20:48:03 * billynux always forgets about the water boiling in the kettle :S
20100430 20:48:31< mordante> billynux, I just don't see the diamond as a real problem, you just need to wonder whether it's needed or not
20100430 20:49:14< mordante> and yes with virtual inheritance you have one instance of that class
20100430 20:50:13< mordante> loonycyborg, ok, and yes virtual inheritance does have a runtime overhead
20100430 20:58:48< billynux> mordante: do you think it is properly used in my case? (see diagrams/code)
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20100430 21:02:06< zookeeper> gabba, ok, i read your discussion with crab, i guess i don't have much to add to that though
20100430 21:03:51< gabba> zookeeper: alright. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I'll keep it in mind.
20100430 21:04:47< zookeeper> no problem
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20100430 21:08:27< mordante> billynux, why do you use virtual inheritance in the first place I assume the server and client are leaf nodes
20100430 21:08:38< mordante> btw is the code ready for looking at?
20100430 21:08:47-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: bbl]
20100430 21:09:08< mordante> no wait they can't be leaf nodes
20100430 21:10:44-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 21:10:44< billynux> Give it a minute mordante. And no
20100430 21:10:59< billynux> the concrete event handlers are the leafs
20100430 21:12:15< billynux> mordante: You can't see it because the application is not in the diagram
20100430 21:15:20-!- hom13 [~What@65.94.127.7] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:17:22< CIA-10> gabba * r42326 /branches/gabba_ghosted_units/: Created feature branch for the Multiple Fake Units sub-task
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20100430 21:37:13< fakedrake> hi
20100430 21:37:36< gabba> hi fakedrake
20100430 21:39:31< mordante> hi fakedrake 
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20100430 21:41:14< fakedrake> can someone help me a bit with the changelog and the about.cfg
20100430 21:41:16< fakedrake> ?
20100430 21:41:53< fakedrake> boucman commented on a patch that i should edit them
20100430 21:42:13< zookeeper> what do you need to know?
20100430 21:44:28-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:44:31< fakedrake> first of all when i find out what to edit on them
20100430 21:44:58< Bob_The_Mighty> I'm trying to track down info on the proposed idea about enduring world idea..
20100430 21:45:15< fakedrake> should i include the editis to the patch?
20100430 21:45:20-!- gabba [~gabriel@70.35.167.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100430 21:45:33< fakedrake> or is there another process involved?
20100430 21:46:11< zookeeper> fakedrake, no, just have the changelog and about.cfg changes be part of the patch, i think
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20100430 21:47:31< mordante> fakedrake, you need to edit changelog and data/about.cfg and include those modifications in your patch
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20100430 21:48:00< fakedrake> thnx
20100430 21:48:44< mordante> you're welcome
20100430 21:49:25< billynux> the changelog needs more love! :D (I think that was Crab_'s comment when I did the same thing)
20100430 21:49:43< billynux> mordante: I commited the name changes to async-net-api.googlecode
20100430 21:49:56 * mordante types svn up
20100430 21:50:20< fakedrake> i add myself in the programming section right?
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20100430 21:52:48< mordante> fakedrake, no to "Miscellaneous contributors", programming is for developers
20100430 21:53:16< mordante> once you earn the badge you have a reason to test your svn write access ;-)
20100430 21:54:45< fakedrake> ok
20100430 21:55:27 * billynux added itself to the programming section as well (didn't see sections)
20100430 21:56:03-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B276C3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:57:43< mordante> itself? ;-P
20100430 21:57:54-!- Gambit1 [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:58:31< billynux> I know... self reference is addictive :D
20100430 21:58:48-!- ilor [~ilor@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:58:52< mordante> I was more referring to the gender ;-)
20100430 21:59:13-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 21:59:17< billynux> :D :D... an "it" ?
20100430 21:59:23-!- Gambit1 is now known as Gambit
20100430 21:59:46< mordante> or you secretly an AI ?
20100430 22:00:18< billynux> bot_error("question not found"); 
20100430 22:00:47< billynux> we still need time to pass the turing test
20100430 22:00:55< norbert_> will 1.8.1 put tab completion back in? :)
20100430 22:00:57< mordante> but on the more serious note, (u)int32_t aren't part of C++ (yet) so I'm not sure whether all compilers support it properly
20100430 22:01:06< mordante> but boost has some wrapper headers for it
20100430 22:01:33< billynux> ? stdint.h is (I think)
20100430 22:01:49< mordante> also wonder whether port shouldn't be a unit16_t ?
20100430 22:02:03< billynux> (in C99)
20100430 22:02:25< Sirp__> mordante: I'd imagine all major compilers should support uint32_t since most every C++ compiler is also a C compiler and C has supported it since C99
20100430 22:02:27< mordante> exactly stdint.h has them but it's a C99 header and not part of C++98
20100430 22:03:04< billynux> uNit? :)... and yes... it *should* be... but I don't know if the boost::asio::endpoint constructor can handle a uint16_t ...
20100430 22:03:26< mordante> Sirp__, I recall we had problems with it in the past, not sure whether only MSVC 6 was the problem or not
20100430 22:03:31< mordante> billynux, typo
20100430 22:04:11< billynux> I agree with Dave... it should really be a problem
20100430 22:04:20< billynux> and it pretty much is a must...
20100430 22:04:20< mordante> but since it's a typedef it should be no problem to use the boost header
20100430 22:04:55< billynux> SDL_net has that Write32 method thats being used right now in the network code
20100430 22:05:01< mordante> billynux, I agree we need fixed sizes
20100430 22:05:07< billynux> (which is passed an int)
20100430 22:05:33< billynux> " I agree with Dave... it should really be a problem" -> I meant it "shouldn't be a problem"
20100430 22:06:29< mordante> billynux, the endpoint in boost asio is an unsigned short
20100430 22:06:34< billynux> mordante: do you want me to test SDL_net 's Write32 against reading that from boost? (I'll do that eventually)
20100430 22:09:20< billynux> mordante: From boost doc: "The port number is always in the host's byte order." -> what do they mean there? (endianness?)
20100430 22:09:55< mordante> well the new code should be compatible with so it should be tested but we can simply connect to the old server
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20100430 22:10:52< mordante> billynux, http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_42_0/libs/integer/doc/html/boost_integer/cstdint.html contains the definitions for the C99 types in a portable way
20100430 22:11:21< billynux> thanks! I'll change that
20100430 22:11:43< billynux> and I'll change the port typedef to unsigned short
20100430 22:11:53< mordante> ok
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20100430 22:13:30< mordante> not entirely sure what they mean with it with the hosts native byte order, I would expect that it means you get it in the byte order of your system
20100430 22:13:47< mordante> but that is what's expected so why mention it
20100430 22:14:45< gabba> can someone point me to the file/class where unit movement is animated? I bookmarked it on another computer but don't feel like searching all over again.
20100430 22:16:08< norbert_> unit_animation.cpp, probably?
20100430 22:16:10< mordante> I would guess unit_animation.cpp
20100430 22:17:29< billynux> mordante: Bug in ana: Run the server and connect to clients: (./client -n c1, ./client -n c2). Disconnect one client (/quit) and then send *two* messages on the remaining one
20100430 22:17:48< billynux> you will get a Server: Error sending message to Client in the server (from an exception)
20100430 22:17:55< mordante> billynux, ok haven't compiled yet looking at the code
20100430 22:18:08< gabba> thanks, unit_animation.cpp seems like the right one
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20100430 22:18:12< billynux> which will properly disconnect the client, but this should have been done before
20100430 22:18:26< mordante> and looking up whether defining a const in the header is an ODR violation, quite sure it is
20100430 22:20:18< billynux> mordante: define ODR? (On-line Dispute Resolution?)
20100430 22:20:30< mordante> not that it probably would hurt since it's const
20100430 22:20:36< mordante> One Definition Rule
20100430 22:20:45< mordante> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Definition_Rule
20100430 22:23:44< Sirp__> actually a const integer in a header shouldn't violate the ODR, but on most compilers it does anyhow.
20100430 22:23:54< Sirp__> I think gcc allows it, though.
20100430 22:24:12< Sirp__> same for a pointer.
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20100430 22:25:59< mordante> ah ok thanks
20100430 22:26:15< billynux> why would a const definition in a header file violate ODR then?
20100430 22:27:10< Sirp__> well, because every source file that includes the header is going to have a separate definition of the const.
20100430 22:28:45< billynux> ah... I see
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20100430 22:29:44< mordante> billynux, in the current code the create_predicate doesn't make much sense it's only a wrapper to the visible constructor 
20100430 22:30:51< mordante> also the virtual for the inheritance doesn't seem to be needed
20100430 22:31:02< gabba> norbert_, mordante: no actually it's not unit_animation.cpp or unit_display.cpp I was looking for. I distinctly remember a rather large method where every step of the unit's path was checked, and a fake unit created if needed when the moving unit passes over another one as part of it's movement.
20100430 22:31:05< billynux> but how would the send_if look like?
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20100430 22:31:31< billynux> right now I don't pass any template parameters to create_predicate
20100430 22:31:34< norbert_> that's more movement cacl. than animation then
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20100430 22:33:09< norbert_> gabba: pathfind/pathfind.cpp maybe?
20100430 22:33:34 * gabba looks at pathfind/pathfind.cpp
20100430 22:34:31< billynux> see mordante, If I remove the create_predicate method, I have to pass the template parameter to _generic_client_predicate in the send_if
20100430 22:35:17< gabba> nope, it's not that one either. It wouldn't make sense for pathfind.cpp to display fake units anyways, it just returns a path
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20100430 22:36:55< mordante> billynux, doesn't _generic_client_predicate(boost::bind(...)) instead of create_predicate(boost::bind(...)) work?
20100430 22:36:55< norbert_> grep -r move_unit_fake *
20100430 22:37:05< norbert_> gives me game_events.cpp and pathfind/pathfind.hpp
20100430 22:37:10< billynux> mordante: nope
20100430 22:37:28< billynux> error: missing template arguments before ‘(’ token
20100430 22:38:12< mordante> ok, then maybe add that info in the doxygen comment of the function later
20100430 22:38:12< norbert_> gabba: but I don't know the source, so, I'm just guessing ;)
20100430 22:38:42< gabba> norbert_: yup, I looked at those two already
20100430 22:39:52< norbert_> gabba: maybe grep -r path_calculator
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20100430 22:40:38< mordante> billynux, is the chat server just some sample code or do you want to change it to the real server
20100430 22:41:02< mordante> I just see a possible resource leak
20100430 22:41:05< billynux> mordante: Sample code demostrating use of ana
20100430 22:41:18< billynux> mordante: which is?
20100430 22:42:00< mordante> The chatserver creates a server and deletes it in run
20100430 22:42:19< mordante> so if either run is never called or ends with an exception the resource is never freed
20100430 22:42:43< mordante> in general it's a good idea to `free' resources allocated in the constructor in the destructor
20100430 22:43:17< mordante> or at least test whether the resource is still `allocated' and then `free' it
20100430 22:43:28< billynux> ok
20100430 22:43:46< billynux> thats RAII right?
20100430 22:43:51< mordante> and of course calling run() twice will result in a problem
20100430 22:44:04< mordante> yes that's RAII
20100430 22:44:34< mordante> and it's also used for scoped resources, like locking a mutex 
20100430 22:44:50< billynux> yes
20100430 22:48:04< mordante> also what happens if you can't start the server eg the port is already opened by another application or you don't have the rights to the port/
20100430 22:48:07< mordante> ?
20100430 22:50:57< billynux> its an exception (unhandled)
20100430 22:51:10< billynux> "what():  Address already in use"
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20100430 22:51:56< mordante> yup the question is do we want that behaviour or wait with creating the server
20100430 22:52:23< Crab_> mordante: thanks. /me wonders why it compiled and worked for me.
20100430 22:52:53< mordante> until run then in run we can catch the exception in run and return the status either a boolean or the error code
20100430 22:53:37< mordante> Crab_, no idea not returning a value is UB, so would expect the compiler to complain
20100430 22:53:39< billynux> mordante: so... defer creating the endpoint?
20100430 22:53:53< billynux> mordante: let me check if you can create it without the exception
20100430 22:54:06< billynux> mordante: or if its the io_service.run that throws it
20100430 22:54:38< Crab_> mordante: well, I've just rechecked. it both compiled AND worked (exactly like when i've tested earlier today). so it seems like the compiler silently 'fixed' the error during compilation.
20100430 22:55:39< mordante> Crab_, maybe you got lucky and the pointer happened to be in the stored in the return register (not too unlikely)
20100430 22:55:51< billynux> mordante: its the instantiation
20100430 22:55:52< mordante> Crab_, and thus found the worst case of UB, works as expected
20100430 22:56:06< Crab_> :) thanks for spotting and fixing it.
20100430 22:56:16< mordante> thank g++ ;-)
20100430 22:56:29< Crab_> my g++ is not so pedantic :)
20100430 22:56:48< mordante> I have a lot more flags set
20100430 22:57:04< mordante> billynux, the problem with a constructor is that it can't return a value so only report errors by an exception
20100430 22:57:14< billynux> yes
20100430 22:57:33< mordante> and IMO exceptions should be used for exceptional things, not being able to bind a port doesn't belong to them
20100430 22:57:47< billynux> agreed
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20100430 22:58:04< billynux> and... do you think I should add functionality as run(port) ?
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20100430 22:58:28< mordante> either run(port) or store the port in the server instance and use that upon run
20100430 22:58:30< billynux> so... client = create_server(); client->run(port_no); 
20100430 22:59:15< mordante> moving the creation to run also helps with your double calling of run and your resource leak
20100430 22:59:19< billynux> I like run(port) better, I can do something like server->run(p1); blabla... server->destroy(); server->run(p2); ....
20100430 23:00:24< mordante> btw I'm also not happy with server->destroy() in C++ we have destructors
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20100430 23:00:51< mordante> delete server_ calls the destructor
20100430 23:02:07< mordante> and of course we don't want to call delete server_, better use std::auto_ptr to handle the pointer
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20100430 23:02:50< billynux> ok, but what about that examplo above? (running it twice)
20100430 23:03:04< billynux> you would rather just destroy the first?
20100430 23:03:11< billynux> (via destructor)
20100430 23:04:18< billynux> std::auto_ptr<ana::server> server; server = create_server(); server->run; blabla...; server = create_server(); (destroys original?)
20100430 23:04:31< mordante> billynux, I'm working on a sample
20100430 23:05:07< billynux> ok
20100430 23:09:23< mordante> billynux, I'd propose something more like http://paste.debian.net/71449/
20100430 23:10:05< mordante> we could also throw the error or like boost asio provide two functions one that throws and one that takes an error parameter by reference
20100430 23:10:30< billynux> ah
20100430 23:10:44< billynux> I meant: "aha", as in ok
20100430 23:11:52< billynux> ok, let me work on that a sec
20100430 23:12:24< billynux> mordante: do you still want me to leave the port parameter in the creator?
20100430 23:12:34< billynux> I think it looks better on run
20100430 23:13:24< mordante> depends on the further design, who calls create and who calls run if the same it doesn't matter
20100430 23:13:37-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100430 23:13:50< mordante> but if the caller of run is another part of the code, does it know about the port number or not
20100430 23:13:54< boucman> hey all
20100430 23:13:59< mordante> hi boucman 
20100430 23:14:11< fendrin> YogiHH: There is a problem with LoW multiplayer. 
20100430 23:14:15< gabba> hi boucman
20100430 23:14:38 * YogiHH is listening
20100430 23:15:10< mordante> but if you do create();run(); I think the port belongs to run
20100430 23:15:22< fendrin> YogiHH: In scenario 3 the players are playing with other characters.
20100430 23:15:43< YogiHH> *sigh* :P
20100430 23:15:43< fendrin> One player plays galtrid instead of kalenz, one el'isomithir instead of Landar.
20100430 23:16:08< mordante> else if you need to run with two port you get create(port);run();set_port(port);run();
20100430 23:16:09< fendrin> But the game calls galtrid kalenz and el'isomithir is called landar.
20100430 23:16:10< billynux> good point mordante. Any reason why one would create it and defer running it to someone different?
20100430 23:17:02< gabba> boucman: the famous fake unit that I need to "make multiple" is "game_display::temp_unit_, right?
20100430 23:17:22< boucman> yes, that's it
20100430 23:17:40< gabba> k
20100430 23:18:10< mordante> billynux, for example you give the server to a watchdog that watches several server, that needs to be able to "restart" the server
20100430 23:18:26< YogiHH> fendrin: any idea why that is so?
20100430 23:18:36< mordante> not that I expect that for Wesnoth but in other programs it might be needed
20100430 23:19:05< mordante> several servers*
20100430 23:19:11< fendrin> YogiHH: I guess it is because the save_ids still point to kalenz and landar.
20100430 23:20:17< YogiHH> fendrin: so we need some kind of way to switch the player's save_id if we want to fix that?
20100430 23:21:34< fendrin> YogiHH: Well, the coding goes like this: There are 2 sides one for each human player. They are initialized with the save_id's the player controlled before meaning Landar and Kalenz.
20100430 23:21:40< billynux> mordante,  yes... so... to allow this: leave the port option in run? (it appeared you didn't want this: "but if you do create();run(); I think the port belongs to run")
20100430 23:22:23< YogiHH> fendrin: so that works alright and just the name isn't changed?
20100430 23:22:24< mordante> yes so create();run(port);
20100430 23:22:25< fendrin> The recall lists are stored, new Leaders are created. On single player this is fine, no problems. But on multiplayer the old leaders names seem to be forced on the new created leader units.
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20100430 23:23:59< billynux> mordante: and then have versions of run as in http://opendownloadmanager.org/docs/1.x/classasio_1_1io__service.html#c84bed0d1dd061bc71010ba1228439da
20100430 23:24:15< billynux> meaning one with reference error code and one throwing execptions
20100430 23:24:30< billynux> although: reference to bool? (or own error class/enum)
20100430 23:24:44< billynux> and std::exception? (or own)
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20100430 23:25:17< mordante> well how much do we want to hide we're using boost?
20100430 23:25:20< gabba> boucman: are you available for more questions?
20100430 23:25:24< boucman> sure
20100430 23:25:46< mordante> we can use their errors, they contain the exact error cause
20100430 23:26:26< mordante> which allows an easier way to diagnose problems
20100430 23:26:28< gabba> boucman: well first, I was wondering what multiple fake units could be used for, apart from my ghosts in the planning system
20100430 23:26:30< billynux> the API should be boost-independent
20100430 23:26:55< boucman> gabba: first, that's a good reason in and by itself
20100430 23:27:07< gabba> boucman: right now the engine doesn't allow moving several units on-screen at the same time, right?
20100430 23:27:15< boucman> second, there are some cases of animations where I might need it (hard to explain but they exist)
20100430 23:27:17< mordante> how do you propose to give the `right' error message?
20100430 23:28:05< boucman> moreover if we have multiple fake units, we could have WML to put them on map/move them around/make them material
20100430 23:28:26< boucman> which could be used for all sort of crazy stuff we can't imagine :P
20100430 23:28:31< billynux> mordante: mmm... using boost::system::error_code ? -> it's not asio-dependent
20100430 23:29:04< gabba> boucman: right. Some scenarios would really benefit of units "marching in" side-by-side, not one at a time
20100430 23:29:25< gabba> boucman: in the story part I mean
20100430 23:30:30< gabba> boucman: so, the second question is: would it be better to support "legacy behavior", i.e. let the current code have access to a default fake units, and create additional ones only if explicitly requested
20100430 23:30:47< billynux> mordante: and... if I do that I have to change every handler profile to boost::system::error_code instead of bool (that type can be evaluated to bool though)
20100430 23:30:56< boucman> no, just adapt every place to whatever new API you implement
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20100430 23:31:12< boucman> compatibility within the code is useless
20100430 23:31:40< boucman> compatibility with WML should be kept as long as it's reasonably possible in 1.9 (and not be changed at all in 1.8)
20100430 23:31:53< boucman> but the fake unit is a code only thing, so just adapt
20100430 23:32:14< boucman> (unless you're speaking of [move_unit_fake] wml action, in which case it's a bit different)
20100430 23:33:34< gabba> (I saw move_unit_fake but that ends up calling routines which uses temp_unit in the end)
20100430 23:33:42< mordante> billynux, what is the bool meant for error reporting?
20100430 23:34:06< billynux> has_error -> true iff an error occurred
20100430 23:34:30< gabba> boucman: forgetting about the compatibility aspect, would having a "default", all purpose temp_unit (maybe the first one in the vector) be a good simplification?
20100430 23:34:30< mordante> but it's an input parameter
20100430 23:34:40< billynux> boost's error_code evaluates to true in a condition also
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20100430 23:34:59< billynux> in the handlers, yes
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20100430 23:35:10< gabba> boucman: otherwise, every place that now calls place_temporary_unit will now have to somehow track a reference
20100430 23:35:36< boucman> i personally don't think so... the risk of having bits of code colliding in complicated way because they use the default is a risk, and adapting the code should be easy
20100430 23:36:00< mordante> I'm not too familiar with boost::system::error_code but ain't that system specific errors?
20100430 23:36:04< fendrin> YogiHH: yes
20100430 23:36:05< boucman> gabba: there are not that many places, and most of them would only have to track it in the scope of a given function => a key on the stack
20100430 23:36:06< Crab_> fendrin: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29748&p=425400
20100430 23:36:18< mordante> systems as in operating system
20100430 23:37:29< gabba> boucman: there are 15 references to temp_unit, so yes the change is manageable
20100430 23:38:13< gabba> boucman: so I'll go the slightly more complicated, but cleaner in the long-run way
20100430 23:38:32< boucman> gabba: my experience as a programmer is that it's always the way to go, 
20100430 23:38:42< boucman> cleaner in the long run always pay back in the long run
20100430 23:39:07< gabba> true
20100430 23:39:25< mordante> indeed
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20100430 23:43:46< gabba> boucman: is there a compelling reason for keeping temp_unit in game_display.cpp?
20100430 23:44:36< boucman> where would you like to move it ?
20100430 23:44:51< gabba> boucman: let's say I have a whiteboard_display.cpp that you can register fake units, arrows and unit numbers with, I think it would be a neat grouping of functionality
20100430 23:45:32< gabba> game_display would then refer to the white_board display in invalidate_animations, instead of using it's internal variable temp_unit
20100430 23:45:48< boucman> hmm
20100430 23:46:23< boucman> if we export the fake units to WML, they are more a part of the game display used by whiteboard than a part of the whiteboard display used by the game...
20100430 23:46:28< boucman> fendrin: around ?
20100430 23:46:50< gabba> boucman: hum yes, maybe it's a bad inversion of control after all
20100430 23:47:15< boucman> gabba: fyi, fendrin did quite some work on the separation between display, game_display, editor_display, so he might probably have better answers than me for that particular question
20100430 23:47:20< gabba> but then if we export arrows to wml, doesn't the same reasoning apply?
20100430 23:47:29< boucman> indeed :P
20100430 23:47:47< boucman> the underlying question is : do we want to separate displays ?
20100430 23:47:55< boucman> and that's a question for fendrin
20100430 23:48:18< gabba> wesbot: seen fendrin
20100430 23:48:19< wesbot> gabba: Queried user last spoke 12m 14s ago.  fendrin is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20100430 23:54:27< boucman> gabba: other questions ?
20100430 23:55:09< gabba> for now, I don't think so
20100430 23:56:23< fendrin> boucman, gabba: What is going on?
20100430 23:56:56< boucman> fendrin: gabba has some questions about the separation between the different xxx_display, and I thought you were the one to ask...
20100430 23:58:01< gabba> fendrin: I'm about to add code to allow creating multiple fake units, I need this for the ghosted units of my whiteboard project
20100430 23:58:57< gabba> fendrin: you want to read the last few lines of my conversation with boucman, or should I attempt to summarize?
20100430 23:59:30< mordante> billynux, I'm about to leave
--- Log closed Sat May 01 00:00:03 2010