--- Log opened Sun Apr 18 00:00:13 2010
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20100418 00:26:38< thespaceinvader> King_Elendil: Gambit said you wanted a word
20100418 00:27:09< King_Elendil> I was wondering if you ever came here actually :)
20100418 00:27:35< King_Elendil> I think I had something else to say, but I forgot it so, Hi 
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20100418 00:37:06< Gambit> King_Elendil: Wesbot could have told you that... :\
20100418 00:37:27< King_Elendil> didn't know about wesbot then :p
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20100418 01:26:25< Gambit> PetePorty has been strangely absent lately.
20100418 01:27:16< mysticX> he told me he has a lot of work
20100418 01:27:50< Gambit> Well that does make more sense than the eaten by wolves theory...
20100418 01:27:59< mysticX> heh
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20100418 01:29:45< VurtualRuler98> Held hostage by crazy foreign terrorists for a cut of "wesnoth's profits"
20100418 01:29:58< Gambit> I mean I was trying to explain to Zarel that wolves were highly unlikely, but he was insistant.
20100418 01:30:08< VurtualRuler98> "Here's 80% of 0 dollars."
20100418 01:30:17< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: Yeah just give them what they want. ;)
20100418 01:30:38< Zarel> I hear a cut of "KylePoole's profits" would be quite decent, though.
20100418 01:31:05< Gambit> And then of course the terrorists can't decide how best to split it three ways.
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20100418 01:34:01< Gambit> Zarel: Is how many copies he's sold public knowledge?
20100418 01:34:17< Gambit> Like does iStore (or whatever it's called) show "downloads"?
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20100418 01:34:38< Zarel> Gambit: KylePoole's profits are already split three ways (Apple, Kyle, Wesnoth). JOKE'S ON THEM!
20100418 01:34:53< Zarel> Gambit: It might? I'm not sure.
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20100418 01:36:51< Gambit> All I can find is this: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/games/role_strategy/battleforwesnoth_nilskneuper.html
20100418 01:37:28< Gambit> lol nvm it's right on the front page :\
20100418 01:39:36< Gambit> Well 229 ratings on the most recent version.
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20100418 02:26:14< King_Elendil> Gambit: do you want to play a MP match? (in 1.6)
20100418 02:35:29-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20100418 02:35:34< Gambit> I uninstalled 1.6 King_Elendil. Sorry.
20100418 02:35:44< King_Elendil> darn :(
20100418 02:35:52< King_Elendil> do you have 1.7?
20100418 02:35:53< Gambit> I could download; but by the time it'd finish I'd be asleep.
20100418 02:35:58< King_Elendil> lol
20100418 02:36:00< Gambit> I have 1.8
20100418 02:36:37< King_Elendil> is there a way we could play with me using 1.7 and you using 1.8?
20100418 02:37:54< Gambit> What's your subversion?
20100418 02:38:14 * King_Elendil checks...
20100418 02:38:28< King_Elendil> 1.7.14
20100418 02:38:56< Gambit> Isn't that compatible?
20100418 02:39:11< Gambit> That was RC1 wasn't it?
20100418 02:39:20< Gambit> Oh beta 7 :\
20100418 02:39:32< Gambit> Maybe I still have 1.6's installers somewhere.
20100418 02:39:33< King_Elendil> you asking me?
20100418 02:39:52< King_Elendil> yes, beta 7
20100418 02:39:55 * Gambit packrats downloads...
20100418 02:40:23< Gambit> :\ Nope.
20100418 02:43:08< Gambit> Sorry. :(
20100418 02:43:27< Gambit> Are you sure 1.7.14 won't connect to the stable server?
20100418 02:43:52< King_Elendil> no, let me check. how?
20100418 02:44:01< Gambit> Oh I know! Wesnothd doesn't give a turd about what version you have.
20100418 02:44:25< Gambit> connect to my IP.
20100418 02:44:40< shadowmaster> only if wesnothd isn't told to check
20100418 02:44:56< shadowmaster> guess what, wesnothd serves the official servers.
20100418 02:45:13< Gambit> *my wesnothd is not setup to check things like that.
20100418 02:45:30< Gambit> Because I'm not savvy like that :\
20100418 02:45:40< King_Elendil> so waht do I do?
20100418 02:45:46< Gambit> Go to connect to server
20100418 02:45:50< Gambit> and enter my IP.
20100418 02:45:58< Gambit> I don't think you need a port number.
20100418 02:46:17< Gambit> 67.234.73.7
20100418 02:46:40< King_Elendil> where do I put it?
20100418 02:46:50< Gambit> In the box that pops up when you hit "connect to server"
20100418 02:47:41< Gambit> I wonder if there is anyone out there that setup thiers to check the version.
20100418 02:47:49< Gambit> Someone who doesn't host an official one.
20100418 02:48:08< King_Elendil> connecting to server...
20100418 02:48:25< Gambit> shadowmaster: Are you able to setup admins on it?
20100418 02:48:53< King_Elendil> nothing's happening, does it usually take a while?
20100418 02:48:59< shadowmaster> what?
20100418 02:49:07< Gambit> On a private server?
20100418 02:49:39< Gambit> King_Elendil: I dunno.
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20100418 02:49:48< Gambit> I ussually only use this for local.
20100418 02:50:18< King_Elendil> wait a minute, I'll figure it out...
20100418 02:52:25< Gambit> It's probably my router.
20100418 02:52:35< Gambit> I can never host anything. :\
20100418 02:52:49< shadowmaster> Gambit: I still don't understand what you want me to do
20100418 02:52:56< Gambit> ?
20100418 02:52:57< shadowmaster> or what you need help with
20100418 02:53:12< Gambit> Are you able to setup admin accounts on a private server?
20100418 02:53:17< Gambit> Is there a config file or something?
20100418 02:53:29< Gambit> King_Elendil: You won't be able to connect.
20100418 02:53:34< shadowmaster> Gambit: no idea
20100418 02:53:34< King_Elendil> nope
20100418 02:53:36< Gambit> My router always gives me trouble with things like this.
20100418 02:53:46< shadowmaster> the only thing I know about wesnothd is its username scheme
20100418 02:53:49< King_Elendil> dang
20100418 02:54:00< Gambit> "port forwarding" I think is the issue
20100418 02:54:24< King_Elendil> will one of the alternate wesnoth servers work?
20100418 02:54:24< happygrue> Gambit: yes, you can
20100418 02:55:02< shadowmaster> insert U.S. presidency joke here
20100418 02:55:10< happygrue> Gambit: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ServerAdministration
20100418 02:55:23< happygrue> it tells you how to set the admin password there
20100418 02:55:24< Gambit> Thanks.
20100418 02:55:38< Gambit> Apparently I won't need it though. :(
20100418 02:55:46< happygrue> Gambit: do it anyway!
20100418 02:55:58< Gambit> At least until my parents decide I can be trusted to log in to the router and fiddle with settings >_>
20100418 02:56:10< happygrue> having your own private server that only you know the passowrd to is the coolest!
20100418 02:56:21< happygrue> and you can turn the music up as loud as you like
20100418 02:56:22< happygrue> hehe
20100418 02:56:27< Gambit> lol
20100418 02:57:13< Gambit> "One danger is that if you forget to type '/query ' at the start of a command you  may accidentally type the password in a chat message, and let all users on the  server know it."
20100418 02:57:19< Gambit> ^^ has that ever happened? lol
20100418 02:57:39< happygrue> Gambit: not in my memory
20100418 02:57:54< happygrue> although it scared me to death when I first became a moderator :D
20100418 02:58:07< King_Elendil> Gambit, can I be host and you join me?
20100418 02:58:10< Gambit> shadowmaster: You lied to me: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ServerAdministration_FromIRC
20100418 02:58:19< Gambit> Well I take that back.
20100418 02:58:23 * King_Elendil hides
20100418 02:58:25< Gambit> You just told me I think to much and to take a nap.
20100418 02:58:29< Gambit> But still.
20100418 02:59:32 * Gambit doesn't have a wesnothd.cfg...
20100418 02:59:39< Gambit> anyway I'll be back later.
20100418 02:59:48< King_Elendil> wait
20100418 02:59:52< shadowmaster> Gambit: wtf, why do you insist in saying that I lie to you?
20100418 03:00:01< shadowmaster> ah, that.
20100418 03:00:12< shadowmaster> you still need special privs for that
20100418 03:01:55< happygrue> Gambit: I imagine that if you run wesnothd it will create a .cfg file
20100418 03:02:22< Gambit> happygrue: I just had it running a few minutes ago.
20100418 03:02:29< happygrue> huh
20100418 03:02:46< happygrue> well, try creating one and adding password= something
20100418 03:03:01< happygrue> in whatever format the preferences file uses
20100418 03:03:09< happygrue> either that or the wiki is out of date
20100418 03:03:21< Gambit> This page is interesting: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MultiplayerServerWML
20100418 03:03:24< happygrue> I haven't ever used wesnothd myself, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me!
20100418 03:03:26< Gambit> but I'll have to read it later.
20100418 03:03:38< Gambit> happygrue: You got me on the right track. ;)
20100418 03:03:42< King_Elendil> Gambit, can you join my IP, 75.143.233.138
20100418 03:03:47< King_Elendil> ?
20100418 03:05:21< King_Elendil> are you trying?
20100418 03:08:48< King_Elendil> nvm, you're away :(
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20100418 03:20:13< Gambit> Back
20100418 03:21:27< King_Elendil> see if you can join my IP, 75.143.233.138
20100418 03:21:56< Gambit> Connecting
20100418 03:22:31< King_Elendil> anything?
20100418 03:22:40-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-140-060.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 03:22:42< Gambit> Could not connect to host
20100418 03:22:50< King_Elendil> crap :(
20100418 03:22:52< Gambit> I don't think it's in the cards. :\
20100418 03:23:16< King_Elendil> is it you or me or wesnoth?
20100418 03:23:25< ancestral> Port forwarding is important
20100418 03:23:28< Gambit> The RNG.
20100418 03:23:32< Gambit> 20% chance to connect.
20100418 03:23:36< King_Elendil> lol
20100418 03:23:59< King_Elendil> good evening ancestral :)
20100418 03:24:04< ancestral> You need to open up the port through your modem and router
20100418 03:24:14< ancestral> Hello
20100418 03:24:23< VurtualRuler98> But my connection has the "enhanced stability" skill! I have a 1d3 chance of connecting anyways!
20100418 03:24:34< ancestral> The one who is hosting 
20100418 03:25:15 * ancestral already leveled up
20100418 03:25:41 * Gambit slaps shadowmaster with a fish
20100418 03:26:02< King_Elendil> Gambit can you join "server2.wesnoth.org15000"?
20100418 03:26:35< Gambit> Yes.
20100418 03:26:43< King_Elendil> join it
20100418 03:26:58< Gambit> I'm in it right now.
20100418 03:27:47< King_Elendil> I have a 4P game open, do you see it?
20100418 03:28:10 * King_Elendil 's game
20100418 03:28:10< Gambit> No
20100418 03:28:26< Gambit> Perhaps it splits people up based on version? :s
20100418 03:28:57< King_Elendil> what was your message from server?
20100418 03:29:30< Gambit> Welcome to an alternate 1.8 multiplayer server
20100418 03:29:30< King_Elendil> "Welcome to an alternate 1.8 Wesnoth server........"
20100418 03:29:33< King_Elendil> ?
20100418 03:29:37< Gambit> Yeah.
20100418 03:29:43< King_Elendil> mine says 1.6
20100418 03:29:49< King_Elendil> hold on
20100418 03:29:55< Gambit> Get on 1.7 you nub.
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20100418 03:30:28< Gambit> That's pronounced with a short u.
20100418 03:31:17< King_Elendil> right, sorry...
20100418 03:32:04< King_Elendil> lol
20100418 03:34:16-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-140-060.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 03:35:08< King_Elendil> this might get interesting...
20100418 03:35:42< Gambit> 350 gold :\
20100418 03:43:17-!- mysticX [nalxk@rbi0332.giga-dns.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100418 03:45:18< King_Elendil> what's wrong with that?
20100418 03:45:39< King_Elendil> 100 leaves you desperate
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20100418 03:51:06< Gambit> King_Elendil: Boo.
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20100418 04:02:22< Gambit> Man the forums were slow today.
20100418 04:02:29< Gambit> I think there were only like 30 new replies all told.
20100418 04:05:00-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B2761DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100418 04:06:38< King_Elendil> What?
20100418 04:06:45< King_Elendil> wanna continue?
20100418 04:07:28< Gambit> Yes.
20100418 04:08:00< King_Elendil> what do we do now? I have your tram set to local player?
20100418 04:08:13< King_Elendil> sorry I'm a noob at this
20100418 04:09:51 * Gambit is watching himself own you in the replay
20100418 04:09:53< Gambit> almost caught up
20100418 04:10:00< King_Elendil> lol
20100418 04:10:08< Gambit> wow you took another village down south
20100418 04:10:13< Gambit> I thought we agreed not to do that :
20100418 04:10:20< King_Elendil> do what?
20100418 04:10:25< King_Elendil> south?
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20100418 04:10:44< Gambit> Yeah
20100418 04:10:55< Gambit> we would leave the south half alone so the match won't drag on forever.
20100418 04:11:04< Gambit> Now I've got to take another one to balance it out.
20100418 04:11:13< Gambit> Anyway I'm caught up
20100418 04:11:16< King_Elendil> just claiming villages
20100418 04:11:47< Gambit> extra income -> extra units -> extra time
20100418 04:13:14-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-188-132-247.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 04:15:24< King_Elendil> right, sorry
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20100418 04:31:36< King_Elendil> O_O I won!
20100418 04:33:09< King_Elendil> that was awesome :p
20100418 04:33:14< Gambit> King_Elendil: The replay is all broken :\
20100418 04:33:20< King_Elendil> what?
20100418 04:33:33< King_Elendil> how, I wanted to see it :(
20100418 04:33:39< Gambit> I missed the last kill because I was reading forums
20100418 04:33:43< Gambit> but the replay doens't have it
20100418 04:34:09< Gambit> Where did that Marksman come from? :@
20100418 04:34:26< Gambit> I was doing so well too :(
20100418 04:34:29< King_Elendil> I didn't have a marksman
20100418 04:34:33< Gambit> :s
20100418 04:34:40< Gambit> That's what is showed you killed me with on my screen.
20100418 04:34:47< King_Elendil> it was a hero and an archer
20100418 04:35:02< Gambit> I came back from the forums just in time to see a marksman firing a last shot on my leader.
20100418 04:35:03< King_Elendil> oh yeah, when I killed you it advaced
20100418 04:35:09< Gambit> Ah.
20100418 04:35:27 * Gambit can't believe that archer made all 4 :\
20100418 04:35:32< Gambit> It had to have right?
20100418 04:35:34< King_Elendil> talk about desperate
20100418 04:35:35< Gambit> I had half HP sitll
20100418 04:35:48< Gambit> I know! I had an army of level 2's headed your way.
20100418 04:35:57< King_Elendil> all I know is the Wesnoth gods were with me :p
20100418 04:36:10< Gambit> *s/Wesnoth gods/RNG Overlord :P
20100418 04:36:31< King_Elendil> XD
20100418 04:36:44< King_Elendil> Thanks Gambit :)
20100418 04:36:54< Gambit> It was all because of that shaman
20100418 04:36:58< Gambit> It slowed my Sorceress
20100418 04:37:00< King_Elendil> You're a better player than me
20100418 04:37:06< Gambit> so it couldn't reach the hero in time to finish it off.
20100418 04:37:09< King_Elendil> I just got lucky
20100418 04:37:21< King_Elendil> exactly
20100418 04:37:29< Gambit> Well tbh the settings we were using were no measure of skill.
20100418 04:37:31< Gambit> lol
20100418 04:37:42< Gambit> 350 gold and Age of Heroes (or whatever it's called)
20100418 04:37:49< Gambit> And only half the map.
20100418 04:37:52< King_Elendil> yeah
20100418 04:38:03< Gambit> Good game. :)
20100418 04:38:19< Gambit> That happens every time I try to use my leader :\
20100418 04:38:25< King_Elendil> lol
20100418 04:38:26< Gambit> I had a funny match with Death_is_Undead
20100418 04:38:34< Gambit> It came down to just his leader and I think a grunt
20100418 04:38:37< Gambit> I used my leader
20100418 04:38:45< King_Elendil> and lost :p
20100418 04:38:59< Gambit> which had an infinitesimal chance of dying
20100418 04:39:03< Gambit> To attack his leader
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20100418 04:39:09< Gambit> which had a pretty decent chance of dying
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20100418 04:39:41< Gambit> And mine died. :(
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20100418 04:41:07 * Gambit crosses infinitesimal off his word of the day calendar.
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20100418 04:46:57< King_Elendil> flabbergasted is another word that you could use
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20100418 04:48:08< King_Elendil> 'night all :)
20100418 04:48:16< Gambit> Bye
20100418 04:48:17< King_Elendil> good game Gambit
20100418 04:48:21< King_Elendil> :p
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20100418 04:56:29< Gambit> Test
20100418 04:56:44< Gambit> Weird... nothing on the internet will work, except apparently IRC...
20100418 04:57:11< shadowmaster> you probably have a DNS problem
20100418 04:57:26< shadowmaster> try navigating to http://65.18.193.12
20100418 04:57:28< Gambit> Dangit... every other day.
20100418 04:57:55< Gambit> shadowmaster: that didn't work either?
20100418 04:57:57< ancestral> Gambit: Can you connect to your modem?
20100418 04:57:58< Gambit> wth.
20100418 04:58:12< ancestral> For some it's http://192.168.0.1
20100418 04:58:22< ancestral> Others have different local IP
20100418 04:58:29< Gambit> nvm. It's not "everyhting but" IRC.
20100418 04:58:32< Gambit> It's just MSN and IE.
20100418 04:58:38< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, then your ISP is screwing up your  connectivity
20100418 04:59:32< ancestral> Gambit: Restart?
20100418 04:59:42< ancestral> And reset the modem?
20100418 04:59:54< Gambit> Why only M$ products? :s
20100418 05:00:06< Gambit> Yay it's all back.
20100418 05:00:50< ancestral> Gambit: They went on strike
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20100418 05:25:43< ancestral> Is there a way I can find the IP address for a web site?
20100418 05:27:45< shadowmaster> $ host <hostname>
20100418 05:28:17< shadowmaster> I assume you are on Mac OS X, and I assume it has the host command if it wants to call itself an operating system
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20100418 05:30:45< ancestral> Thanks
20100418 05:31:22< shadowmaster> so you are effectively on Mac OS X? :)
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20100418 09:48:04< Ivanovic> moin
20100418 09:48:29< Unnheulu> "Several European airlines will have to be bailed out by their Governments if the chaos lasts much longer"
20100418 09:48:46< Unnheulu> Sounds like the BNP and Green have got their way...(British Political Parties)
20100418 09:49:12< Androgeos> Morning, Ivanovic.
20100418 09:49:21< Unnheulu> Hiah Ivan
20100418 09:49:51< Androgeos> Unnheulu: Is that regarding the Icelandic volcano having an effect on Europe?
20100418 09:49:58< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100418 09:50:05< Unnheulu> And no affect on most of Iceland^^
20100418 09:50:21< Androgeos> Funny. :s
20100418 09:50:32< Unnheulu> Its the wind ;)
20100418 09:51:05< Unnheulu> There are three wind systems travelling into the UK, and it seems that's where the ash is heading
20100418 09:51:14< Unnheulu> So its getting thrown around the place ;)
20100418 09:51:28< Androgeos> Hmm
20100418 09:51:47< Unnheulu> Thats where is covering, if your wondering (PM)
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20100418 09:57:39< Androgeos> Netsplit... :|
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20100418 10:37:14< Vermind> Hi, is it known that the wesnoth 1.8.0 menu buttons do not work when in window mode?
20100418 10:38:01-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 10:38:07< Ivanovic> Vermind: install a different libsdl version
20100418 10:38:24< Ivanovic> libsdl 1.2.14 is broken (known!)
20100418 10:38:42< Vermind> oh
20100418 10:38:49< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14770
20100418 10:39:07< Ivanovic> links to various bugtrackers (including the libsdl tracker) are linked in this meta report
20100418 10:44:00< Vermind> good, found an ubuntu PPA with fixed SDL https://launchpad.net/~gilir/+archive/updates
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20100418 13:04:50< Androgeos> Was Colosseum new when 1.6.4 was released?
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20100418 13:22:50< Unnheulu> Wow
20100418 13:22:55< Unnheulu> There's clouds
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20100418 13:28:35< Androgeos> Where do you live, Unnheulu?
20100418 13:28:42< Unnheulu> UK
20100418 13:29:09< Androgeos> Ah
20100418 13:29:22< Androgeos> Hold on, I'm going to eat dinner.
20100418 13:29:27< Unnheulu> ok
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20100418 13:30:31< Delimis> Forgot I set my Freenode account as such... XD
20100418 13:30:46< Unnheulu> hmm
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20100418 14:02:00< Androgeos> Back
20100418 14:02:49< Androgeos> So I managed to complete Siege of Elensefar, at great cost.
20100418 14:02:57< cph> :)
20100418 14:03:19< Androgeos> I lost my Marksman, but I managed to level up another Horseman into a Knight.
20100418 14:03:45< Androgeos> I also recruited a lot of Mages and two Shamans, but I didn't really use them very much.
20100418 14:03:56< Androgeos> Except maybe that one Mage I expended...
20100418 14:04:28< Androgeos> I somehow managed to put my Elvish Sorceress in a pinch and got her HP knocked down to about 1 HP.
20100418 14:05:02< Androgeos> She had to stand beside the Druid for the rest of the level...
20100418 14:05:20< Androgeos> Oh, and I'm crap with thieves. I lost two out of the four of them.
20100418 14:05:50< cph> yeah, I don't usually manage to keep them all alive; I think I saved 3 last time through.
20100418 14:06:08< Androgeos> Three is good. That's what I usually manage too.
20100418 14:06:27< Androgeos> However, I'm not looking at the walkthrough this time round, so it was harder.
20100418 14:06:45< Androgeos> And then I have another Elvish Archer on the verge of levelling up. One kill, that's all it takes.
20100418 14:07:03< cph> on the edge of levelling up is ideal
20100418 14:07:29< Androgeos> Yeah, but I can't get too trigger-happy.
20100418 14:08:25< Androgeos> Stupidest mistake ever is to suicide a unit that's about to level up. I did that quite a few times during my first play of the tutorial.
20100418 14:09:00< cph> next is... Crossroads IIRC?
20100418 14:09:04< Androgeos> Yeap
20100418 14:09:18< cph> Not my favourite level, but I think it has improved over the last couple of releases.
20100418 14:09:43< Androgeos> Do you recommend a run-for-it or kill-em-all? I've always employed kill-em-all.
20100418 14:09:53< Androgeos> (for the XP)
20100418 14:10:19< cph> same here - the south enemy isn't that strong and you'll have plenty of villages after you kill him, so you're not losing much gold.
20100418 14:10:46< Androgeos> The only thing that truly worries me is the poison.
20100418 14:11:19< Androgeos> I wouldn't be so frightened of the hills if it weren't for the poison.
20100418 14:12:04< cph> worried about units getting poisoned while away from healers? that makes sense, although I don't remember it being too big a deal on past attempts. There are villages around.
20100418 14:12:51< Androgeos> Well, keep in mind that I still only have one Druid. Every other elf in the line is either a Shaman or Sorceress.
20100418 14:13:10< cph> right
20100418 14:14:00< cph> I tend to head for the south enemy and don't push towards the east one until the first is done - that approach works with 1 healer.
20100418 14:14:38< Androgeos> Quite a few times, I find the east enemy flanking me, so I end up having to sacrifice as many as three units to stall them.
20100418 14:16:01< cph> true; on past attempts I have sometimes left a garrison to hold the NW from them and it takes quite a few to hold them off
20100418 14:16:44< Androgeos> I end up expending several Level 1 units, possibly including the loyal archer and fighter. :(
20100418 14:17:04< cph> not good indeed
20100418 14:18:18< Androgeos> I tend to find myself in a dilemma when recruits originally recruited to be expended end up getting a lot of experience, and I end up having several low-level units with decent XP.
20100418 14:18:43< Androgeos> In this run of HttT, I'm once again facing the same problem with some of my Mages.
20100418 14:19:50< cph> yes, it's always a nuisance once your force is spread out if you can't get XP to the units you want
20100418 14:20:23< cph> I try to make sure that each "band" of units I have includes one unit that I want to give XP to.
20100418 14:20:46< cph> at least one, I mean
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20100418 14:23:58< Androgeos> I tend to have several.
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20100418 15:28:35< Zerovirus> Oh hey, how many more turns did you guys fight?
20100418 15:35:04< Aethaeryn> to turn 53
20100418 15:35:15< Aethaeryn> your (orc) leader died because he got lucky
20100418 15:35:26< Aethaeryn> saw that it was possible, but sent him in anyway so the game would go quicker.
20100418 15:35:40< Aethaeryn> Since the orcish warrior does a lot of damage
20100418 15:36:00< Aethaeryn> I *really* wanted it to end as soon as possible :P
20100418 15:36:21< Aethaeryn> oh, no recruiting was necessary. Purp had too many. Still had about 7 at th end.
20100418 15:36:22< Zerovirus> Ugh.
20100418 15:36:29< Zerovirus> Wait, it got all the way into the 50s?
20100418 15:36:32< Aethaeryn> Only one drake lived (burner) as wel as leader...
20100418 15:36:37< Zerovirus> You guys -did- win without recruiting right?
20100418 15:36:41< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100418 15:36:45< Aethaeryn> it ended with my leader killing his.
20100418 15:36:55< Zerovirus> Welp. That sounds... Very very long.
20100418 15:36:59< Aethaeryn> beginning of turn 53, since green is before purp and black
20100418 15:37:07< Aethaeryn> but if my leader failed, it would've ended with purp's turn
20100418 15:37:15< Aethaeryn> since his leader was surrounded by 4 purps and 2 greens
20100418 15:37:29< Aethaeryn> it goes fast at the end :P
20100418 15:37:42< Zerovirus> Do you have a replay? :3
20100418 15:38:21< Aethaeryn> they're all on the server... unless the 1.8 lobby broke that too :P
20100418 15:38:30< Aethaeryn> http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/
20100418 15:38:42< Aethaeryn> http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/20100418/
20100418 15:38:55< Aethaeryn> http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/20100418/5p_-_Dwarven_Fortress_(2_vs_3)_Turn_53_(1406).gz
20100418 15:39:18< Zerovirus> Too lazy to find it :P
20100418 15:39:24< Aethaeryn> might not be as perfect as my replay (does my replay record team chat and not server one?) but it's definitely good enough for me
20100418 15:39:28< Aethaeryn> Too lazy to upload it :P
20100418 15:54:22< Zerovirus> Ah, that reminds me. Time to go download your map pack. And EoM again.
20100418 16:00:49< Aethaeryn> meh, I've given up on EoM
20100418 16:01:27< Aethaeryn> the whole reason I made Thunderstone is (and I think there's a post I made once in their thread) because I was once an active observer (never any official role) in EoM and they were doing it *all* wrong.
20100418 16:01:54< Aethaeryn> And with an eye for detail, I did find it frustrating how typos and just plain bad text would make it in release after release.
20100418 16:02:04< Aethaeryn> And how they didn't answer the thread.
20100418 16:02:34< Aethaeryn> And honestly, they should've just focused on the factions where they had good art assets and ignored the others until they got art, since a faction is all about art.
20100418 16:02:47< Zerovirus> That I agree with above all else.
20100418 16:03:09< Aethaeryn> Instead, they kept the focus on the ones with bad art (the original ones) as its core, and the ones with the good art (which were added because the art was good *and* the concept was fun, not just the latter) were relegated to secondary supporting status
20100418 16:03:11< Zerovirus> Of course I just downloaded Ageless again. And now to have fun stealing sprite designs.
20100418 16:03:36< Aethaeryn> EoM could have been completed ages ago if they just emphasized on the art, and dropped one of the original core.
20100418 16:03:49< Aethaeryn> Yeah, 7 factions is a bad place to be at, especially if it's incomplete and with 1-2 devs
20100418 16:04:02< Aethaeryn> Since it will always be behind Default with 2-4 balancers and 6 factions.
20100418 16:04:04< Aethaeryn> Always.
20100418 16:05:07< Zerovirus> Eh, i'm just going for 2 factions in my era.
20100418 16:05:18< Zerovirus> Of course, I haven't even finished the second.
20100418 16:05:24< Zerovirus> So it can't really be called an era can it?
20100418 16:05:40< Aethaeryn> 1 faction = 1 possible matchup, perfect balance.
20100418 16:05:47< Zerovirus> Exactly.
20100418 16:05:55< Zerovirus> I'm trying to set something up like Drakes Versus Undead
20100418 16:06:00< Zerovirus> Balanced, yes, but very brutal.
20100418 16:06:11< Aethaeryn> 2 factions = 3 possible matchups (with mirrors)
20100418 16:06:26< Aethaeryn> et cetera
20100418 16:06:30< Zerovirus> Ah.
20100418 16:06:38< Aethaeryn> you'll find that each faction makes it harder to balance
20100418 16:06:54< Zerovirus> Of course Steelhive versus itself isn't much fun because they're resistant to their own attacks.
20100418 16:06:55< Aethaeryn> so 5 to 6 (Default) to 7 (EoM) makes it a lot more effort than it seems
20100418 16:07:07< Aethaeryn> and if you had 8, you're screwed
20100418 16:07:22< Aethaeryn> that's why EE will never be balanced, despite the "Balanced Extended Era (BEEM)" goal.
20100418 16:07:31< Aethaeryn> Because the effort goes up a ton
20100418 16:07:34< Zerovirus> You could always steal the mainline stats, change hp by 4 and add an attack, and call it a unit :P
20100418 16:08:00< Aethaeryn> you could steal mainline stats, sometimes when I make factions I do tweak them such as "these will be like loys, but with FOO"
20100418 16:08:08< Zerovirus> Also, stupid steelhive AI leader STOP RECRUITING LIGHTSHIFTERS DAMN
20100418 16:08:09< Aethaeryn> and then, I use the loy stats as starting points, and go from there.
20100418 16:08:25< Zerovirus> Yeah, I'm actually doing a bit of studying using the naga line as a base.
20100418 16:08:40< Zerovirus> Combination of nagas, undead, maybe a bit of goblins thrown in the mix
20100418 16:08:51< Blarumyrran> 3 factions is the default in real-time strategies at least
20100418 16:08:55< Aethaeryn> but remember, they're not balanced unit-to-unit, only faction-to-faction
20100418 16:08:57< Blarumyrran> ever since dune 2
20100418 16:09:05< Aethaeryn> There's actually a thread that talked about this a while back.
20100418 16:09:22< Aethaeryn> About how 3 factions is some kind of optimal, since everyone wants to be like Starcraft.
20100418 16:09:23< Blarumyrran> I think 3 factions is a pretty good number by itself too
20100418 16:09:27< Blarumyrran> oh.
20100418 16:09:43< Aethaeryn> But then someone did out the math.
20100418 16:09:50< Aethaeryn> About how many matchups each faction has.
20100418 16:10:00< Zerovirus> I personally didn't enjoy Starcraft that much. Red Alert 2 only had 2 factions with a few nation-specific units and I liked that much better.
20100418 16:10:03< Aethaeryn> Without a calculator, I'd say Default had more than 10 possible matchups
20100418 16:10:19< Blarumyrran> uhm what
20100418 16:10:38< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: Yuri's Revenge :P
20100418 16:10:49< Zerovirus> But Yuri's army was so freaking imbalanced!
20100418 16:10:58< Zerovirus> Like 5 less units than the otherfactions and the subs were freaking stupid
20100418 16:10:59< Aethaeryn> Red Alert does that too... it just adds the 3rd in expansion
20100418 16:11:17< Blarumyrran> And in the last Red Alert, there are the japanese
20100418 16:11:18< Zerovirus> I preferred teh original. Yuri was a great enemy in campaign but not a good MP faction.
20100418 16:11:18< Aethaeryn> but I kind of like how AoE2 did it.
20100418 16:11:31< Aethaeryn> It balanced based on a tech tree instead of radically different factions.
20100418 16:11:36< Zerovirus> Ugh, ever since EA took over the Red Alert franchise the campaign's been going down the drain.
20100418 16:11:40< Zerovirus> No interesting cutscenes, period.
20100418 16:11:45< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, I don't think it balanced well
20100418 16:11:50< Zerovirus> Unlike that one scene where General Vladimir is caught in the hot tub :D
20100418 16:11:52< Blarumyrran> Eg byzantines get nearly everything
20100418 16:11:53< Aethaeryn> So there was really 1 "faction" but something like 12 or so civilizations with different advancements.
20100418 16:12:00< Aethaeryn> yeah, Byzantines were awesome. I loved them.
20100418 16:12:10< Aethaeryn> But they did have some obvious offensive defficiencies.
20100418 16:12:19< Aethaeryn> They missed some high-level aggressive units that everyone else seemed to get.
20100418 16:12:27< Aethaeryn> I liked Byzantines because I liked to play defensive until late game.
20100418 16:12:55< Aethaeryn> And the Byzantines had a unique perk where your buildings got more HP for each age you were in.
20100418 16:15:02< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what "some high-level aggressive units"
20100418 16:15:30< Aethaeryn> iirc, their siege units sucked, and they missed the lvl 3 knight, which a lot of other people got.
20100418 16:15:30< Zerovirus> Note to self: If I'm going to make the Oculus cost 17 HP to recruit, it should actually be worth that price.
20100418 16:15:42< Zerovirus> *I meant Gold
20100418 16:15:48< Aethaeryn> And they missed a key tech upgrade to cavalry archers that some civs had
20100418 16:16:23< Aethaeryn> Just a handful techs in difference between some civs, and it made all the difference in terms of what late-game strats you could do
20100418 16:17:11< Aethaeryn> Honestly, the Huns were probably OP.
20100418 16:17:33< Aethaeryn> Mix cav archers with their castle unit, tarkans, which is pretty much the strat for half their campaign.
20100418 16:17:58< Aethaeryn> tarkans take care of the buildings and siege weapons, and run down any ranged unit, and cav archers hit-and-run anyone else...
20100418 16:18:17< Zerovirus> Has anyone played Rise of Nations? I'm aware it's not as good a game as AoE, but I've never played AoE before, and am trying to get back into the discussion :P
20100418 16:18:20< Aethaeryn> the only weakness to this tactic would be camels (the anti cav cavalry), but... could huns recruit camels too?
20100418 16:18:29< Aethaeryn> Sorry, never played RoN
20100418 16:18:39< Aethaeryn> heard about it, but AoE2 did consume my life for a while.
20100418 16:18:53< Zerovirus> The Terra Cotta Army was so OP in RoN :P
20100418 16:19:12< Aethaeryn> Basically, ever since I was 12 or so (AoE2?) you could define my life in phases of games I obsessed over ;)
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20100418 16:19:27< Aethaeryn> would leave a lot out, of course, but would explain how I spent my computer time.
20100418 16:20:05< Gambit> Aethaeryn: But of course no game could replace wesnoth now that you've found it. ;)
20100418 16:20:08< Zerovirus> >.< stupid underpowered steelhive that is incredibly imbalanced. What's Gambit doing?
20100418 16:20:26< Gambit> Zerovirus: Cleaning my room against my will.
20100418 16:20:43< Zerovirus> What did you do, set up computerized drones to do it for you while you chat here?
20100418 16:21:21< Gambit> I reprogrammed steelhive ;)
20100418 16:21:33< Gambit> ... to clean my room that is
20100418 16:21:36< Gambit> not to be balanced :o
20100418 16:21:36< Zerovirus> Sigh. I wish I already had that done. :P
20100418 16:21:40< Gambit> Sorry. :(
20100418 16:22:01< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, at least for me aoe1 had a much better feel
20100418 16:22:03< Zerovirus> It's okay, I can wait.
20100418 16:22:32< Aethaeryn> I liked AoE1, but AoE2 just was more fun.
20100418 16:22:41< Aethaeryn> The most fun game from Ensemble Studios, definitely.
20100418 16:22:57< Aethaeryn> AoE3 might've been entertaining, but it was just missing... something
20100418 16:23:18< Aethaeryn> Gambit: part of the reason Wesnoth is good is because it's not replaced every few years by inferior sequels.
20100418 16:23:32< Zerovirus> Nope, it gets replaced every year by superior sequels.
20100418 16:23:34< Aethaeryn> or at least sequels that require changing *some* key elements so you have to buy it all over again
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20100418 16:24:10< Aethaeryn> But yeah, Wesnoth by its very nature will almost always outdo its previous version because it's incremental not same-engine-new-theme
20100418 16:24:40< Aethaeryn> It's like if you liked HttT and a few of the earliest campaigns the most, but they were all discontinued in 1.2...
20100418 16:24:53< Aethaeryn> So you'd have to choose between the worse engine/graphics of 1.2 or the worse campaigns of 1.8
20100418 16:25:33< Zerovirus> And that brings us to the other good point of Wesnoth
20100418 16:25:44< Zerovirus> If that did happen someone sooner or later would patch the early campaigns back into the new versions
20100418 16:26:10< Aethaeryn> Eh, my example fails in one sense though: The Dark Hordes
20100418 16:26:13< Aethaeryn> :P
20100418 16:26:18< Zerovirus> Explain?
20100418 16:26:27< Aethaeryn> It's just so happens that we haven't lost any mainline campaigns since 1.2
20100418 16:26:35< Aethaeryn> iirc, we have lost at least one, the one I know of being TDH
20100418 16:26:52< Aethaeryn> The original UD campaign, before DiD was mainline.
20100418 16:27:08< Zerovirus> Was that the one with Gwiti Ha'Atel?
20100418 16:27:34< Aethaeryn> http://www.xs4all.nl/~roadie/wesnoth_units/1.0/tree_undead.html
20100418 16:27:36< Aethaeryn> I think it was 1.0
20100418 16:27:57< Aethaeryn> Initiate -> Deathmaster -> Demilich -> Dread Lich (came back somewhere as Spider Lich)
20100418 16:28:19< Androgeos> Looks like the sprite for the Skeletal Dragon hasn't changed one bit...
20100418 16:28:22< Zerovirus> I kindal like those little sprites.
20100418 16:28:35< Zerovirus> Maybe I'll refurbish them and use the same general design.
20100418 16:28:45< Androgeos> Soul Shooter = Bone Shooter?
20100418 16:29:26< Androgeos> I thought the old Wraith and Spectre sprites were pretty good. :s
20100418 16:29:31< Zerovirus> oh god the ancient woses were ugly
20100418 16:29:34< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: Maybe Wesband (the Roguelike on Wesnoth's engine, which has a *ton* of monsters not really found elsewhere) did it
20100418 16:29:38< Zerovirus> The new ones are better though.
20100418 16:29:41< Aethaeryn> I do recall seeing spider lich somewhere
20100418 16:29:47< Blarumyrran> utbs
20100418 16:29:51< Blarumyrran> I think
20100418 16:30:01< Aethaeryn> I was actually surprised to see it as "dread lich" since I was expecting the line to end in "spider lich"
20100418 16:30:14< Zerovirus> What's this? A sea hag in the Naga section?
20100418 16:30:19< Zerovirus> Hmm.
20100418 16:30:23< Aethaeryn> oh that's a gem
20100418 16:30:27< Aethaeryn> there's an older unit tree from geocities
20100418 16:30:40< Aethaeryn> but geocities was taken offline, but I saved the tree part (unfortunately, not the other parts of the site)
20100418 16:30:44< Zerovirus> I like the wings of the old Gryphon. Maybe I'll steal it.
20100418 16:30:57< Zerovirus> lol that cockatrice is hilariously ugly
20100418 16:31:18< Androgeos> Dwarvish Runemaster's hammer looks very 2D.
20100418 16:31:29< Zerovirus> What's all these stats? short and long, not melee and ranged? :O
20100418 16:31:37< Aethaeryn> wait until you see holy :P
20100418 16:31:48< Aethaeryn> 1.0 -> 1.2 and 1.2 -> 1.4 were *huge* changes.
20100418 16:31:57< Aethaeryn> So if you came in 1.4 you missed out on a lot of stuff.
20100418 16:32:08< Aethaeryn> There's a reason why 1.1 and 1.3 were popular MP servers (other than a stable lobby)
20100418 16:32:13< Zerovirus> Gryphon riders used to be humans?
20100418 16:32:18< Aethaeryn> They had compelling reasons to use them
20100418 16:32:28< Aethaeryn> The pplayers on 1.1 and 1.3
20100418 16:32:32< Aethaeryn> not the humans on gryphons
20100418 16:32:36< Aethaeryn> stupid English language
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20100418 16:33:01< Aethaeryn> I almost want to go back and time and have the English fix all the deficiencies in English so there is no ambiguities anymore.
20100418 16:33:09< Gambit> Zerovirus: In the long term I can just about (99.99999999) guarentee results by september.
20100418 16:33:14< Gambit> In the short term, I have no idea.
20100418 16:33:36< Zerovirus> Gambit: It can be done whenever you have time.
20100418 16:33:38< Androgeos> "Horse Lord"? O.o
20100418 16:33:39< Aethaeryn> Gambit: scrolling up to try to find what the hell you are saying, I have a response for your old line.
20100418 16:33:46< Aethaeryn> Androgeos: South guard campaign unit
20100418 16:33:52< Aethaeryn> or EI campaign unit
20100418 16:33:53< Zerovirus> The orcs haven't been changed that much.
20100418 16:33:58< Aethaeryn> mea culpa
20100418 16:34:08< Zerovirus> Neither have the fencers.
20100418 16:34:16< Androgeos> Aethaeryn: And what is it called now?
20100418 16:34:35< Aethaeryn> 5~< Gambit> Aethaeryn: But of course no game could replace wesnoth now that you've found it. <- Actually, one of the reasons I could spend *years* on AoE 2 is that long after I got bored of the normal stuff there was lots of cool UMC available online. AoE 3 (the first 3D one in the series) didn't have it because editing was harder.
20100418 16:34:55< Aethaeryn> In a sense, Wesnoth is the perfect UMC game.
20100418 16:34:57< Zerovirus> Man someone should totally make an addon based on children dressing up as soldiers fighting in the playground, and use all these cute dilapidated sprites from ancient versions.
20100418 16:35:16< Aethaeryn> As long as it maintains a critical mass of content creators, there is literally no theoretical point of boredom.
20100418 16:35:28< Aethaeryn> Androgeos: same thing I think.
20100418 16:35:36< Aethaeryn> after 1.0 (or 1.2) campaign units split off into their own.
20100418 16:35:41< Zerovirus> Wow, mechanical is a messy lump of crap.
20100418 16:35:45< Aethaeryn> they reorganized directories and all
20100418 16:35:48< Aethaeryn> so they're not in /units...
20100418 16:36:05< Androgeos> Oh
20100418 16:36:11< Zerovirus> OH DEAR LORD THE ATTACK ICONS WHAT IS THIS
20100418 16:36:14< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/units/trunk/C/Eastern_Invasion.html
20100418 16:36:14< Zerovirus> AAAAHHHHH
20100418 16:36:26< Androgeos> What attack icons?
20100418 16:36:37< Androgeos> "Fireball"?
20100418 16:36:42< Zerovirus> They... Those attack icons are pixelated...
20100418 16:36:46< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: you're invited to my 1.0 MP party.
20100418 16:36:54< Aethaeryn> that we're playing a week (or so) before 2.0 is released.
20100418 16:36:59< Zerovirus> Eh...heh.
20100418 16:37:01< Aethaeryn> Whether that be next year or in 3 years or in 5.
20100418 16:37:02< Aethaeryn> I'm doing it.
20100418 16:37:05< Zerovirus> I doubt 2.0 is coming anytime soon.
20100418 16:37:16< Zerovirus> What if it doesn't come before I die? ;_;
20100418 16:37:17< Aethaeryn> Hey, the art is almost completely replaced.
20100418 16:37:23< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: You're still invited.
20100418 16:37:28< Zerovirus> I think the fencers just got a recolor and called it a day.
20100418 16:37:33< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: But you would be forced to play the Undead side.
20100418 16:37:44< Aethaeryn> Oh, not "recolor"... "Team Color"
20100418 16:37:52< Zerovirus> Also, the attack icons used to be pixelated. Sigh. I mean I knew this but I didn't actually fully comprehend.
20100418 16:38:31 * Gambit goes back to cleaning/waiting nervously for something :o
20100418 16:38:36< Zerovirus> I kinda like the old ensnare icon.
20100418 16:38:51< Zerovirus> Someone needs to make a better anim for the shaman slow already.
20100418 16:38:52< Androgeos> Oh, what's this? Li'sar's Level 2 sprite hasn't changed at all?
20100418 16:40:30< Zerovirus> Aethaeryn: Actually I'm not that good with Undead. I like knalgans because I don't have to do much, I just sit there and watch the enemy attack me.
20100418 16:40:42< Androgeos> Hey, the Drake sprites weren't changed until 1.8. Interesting.
20100418 16:40:53< Zerovirus> You mean 1.7.
20100418 16:41:07 * Androgeos doesn't play the beta versions.
20100418 16:41:22< Blarumyrran> 1.8 is worse than a beta :P
20100418 16:41:33< Androgeos> In what sense? Multi?
20100418 16:41:38< Blarumyrran> Yes
20100418 16:41:38< Zerovirus> 1.8 is the Vista of Wesnoth.
20100418 16:42:06< Androgeos> If it's multi's scrolling issues, I use the keyboard to navigate. :s
20100418 16:42:29< cph> Playing SP, 1.8 seems good so far to me.
20100418 16:42:33< Androgeos> Although at first I was WHY DO YOU KEEP SCROLLING TO THE TOP?!!! >:(
20100418 16:42:49< Androgeos> SP is fine so far, although I've only played HttT and I'm only at Crossroads.
20100418 16:43:04< Blarumyrran> The resizing of the chatbox is even worse
20100418 16:43:39< Androgeos> It doesn't seem to be used very often, though.
20100418 16:43:51< Androgeos> The one thing that bugs me more than anything else, though, is the font.
20100418 16:44:06< Androgeos> I don't know why I'm seeing Helvetica all over the place.
20100418 16:44:09< Gambit> Zerovirus: Why would you make that comparison?
20100418 16:44:14< Gambit> 1.8 is the ME of wesnoth ;)
20100418 16:44:24< Zerovirus> Oh hahaha ahha.
20100418 16:44:25< Aethaeryn> I agree.
20100418 16:44:25< Gambit> Vista is a fine OS if you feed it the right amount of power.
20100418 16:44:27< Zerovirus> I see whut u did thar
20100418 16:44:31< Aethaeryn> Vista is a hog of processor.
20100418 16:44:33< Androgeos> No, Gambit. If it was ME, Wesnoth would crash even before you load it.
20100418 16:44:35< Aethaeryn> ME BSoDed all the time.
20100418 16:44:55< Gambit> 1.6 was the 98SE of Wesnoth.
20100418 16:44:58< Aethaeryn> anyway, I think 1.2 had a lot of bugs.
20100418 16:45:05< Zerovirus> Also the new AI needs to have the ability to actually recruit a usable keep on the first turn.
20100418 16:45:06< Aethaeryn> probably not as serious as 1.8 lobby
20100418 16:45:11< Zerovirus> I just got hit with 4 DAs and a skeleton.
20100418 16:45:12< Aethaeryn> but still, bugs can be fixed in stable versions!
20100418 16:45:13 * Androgeos only started playing Wesnoth from 1.4.3 onwards.
20100418 16:45:21< Gambit> 1.2.4 <3
20100418 16:45:28< Gambit> 1.2.6? -glarse
20100418 16:45:32< Gambit> *glares*
20100418 16:45:39< Aethaeryn> actually, iirc, at some point they said "stop playing 1.2.x before <some point>"
20100418 16:45:43< Aethaeryn> been so long though
20100418 16:45:48< Aethaeryn> could've been a different stable.
20100418 16:46:10< Androgeos> By the way, what's the difference between the default AI and RCA?
20100418 16:46:11< Zerovirus> Oh, there's the troll prison.
20100418 16:46:18< Zerovirus> Playing your Dwarven Fortress.
20100418 16:46:20< Zerovirus> Against AI.
20100418 16:46:33< Aethaeryn> may want to give them more gold :P
20100418 16:46:50< Zerovirus> Eh, I'll live.
20100418 16:46:58< Zerovirus> Just want to test all the runes.
20100418 16:46:59< Aethaeryn> it's most fun human v. human because sometimes the traps have some psychological effect
20100418 16:47:02< Aethaeryn> ah, yeah, true
20100418 16:47:05 * Gambit happily runs vista for the record.
20100418 16:47:16< Zerovirus> don't do it man, save yourself
20100418 16:47:20< Zerovirus> Or at least save your computer
20100418 16:47:21 * Aethaeryn happily runs XP in a virtual machine on top of Linux far smoother than Vista in his native partition.
20100418 16:47:36 * sevis happily runs Linux.
20100418 16:47:46 * Aethaeryn has to use Windows for a class.
20100418 16:47:47< sevis> Darn, Aethaeryn beat me to it.
20100418 16:48:03< Aethaeryn> What's funny is that there's no fan sound at all in XP
20100418 16:48:05 * Blarumyrran happily runs down for coffee
20100418 16:48:13< Aethaeryn> while in real Vista, it sounds like my computer is about to self-destruct.
20100418 16:48:31< Zerovirus> yup, definitely going to collapse the bridge right about nwo
20100418 16:48:40< Aethaeryn> when you need an i7 to run an *OS* (before you start up any application), you failed.
20100418 16:48:42 * Androgeos is on a Mac.
20100418 16:49:13< Zerovirus> How do I use the two escape tunnels again?
20100418 16:49:24< Aethaeryn> you stand on it and right click
20100418 16:49:27< Gambit> Vista's like the darkside.
20100418 16:49:30< Aethaeryn> works only once, remember
20100418 16:49:32< sevis> When you can't stop your OS from starting up a graphical environment, you've already failed.
20100418 16:49:34< Gambit> It will only give you trouble if you're not strong enough.
20100418 16:49:36< Gambit> ;)
20100418 16:49:59< Aethaeryn> sevis: actually, I use irssi in a screen... often times I'm chatting without using a GUI at all.
20100418 16:50:11< Gambit> Aethaeryn: My fans only run during boot.
20100418 16:50:19< Gambit> Which I suspect is for diagnostic purposes
20100418 16:50:23< Aethaeryn> Gambit: then you have a newer computer.
20100418 16:50:28< Gambit> Hells yeah.
20100418 16:50:32< Aethaeryn> mine is two years old.
20100418 16:50:33< Gambit> Her name is Fran.
20100418 16:50:38< Aethaeryn> its CPU is just under 2 GHz
20100418 16:50:44< sevis> Aethaeryn: I'm on irrsi, too, but I was referring to Windows/Mac OS, not you.
20100418 16:50:53< Zerovirus> aah it's not working, my leader's sitting on that mountain and right clicking doesn't bring up anything
20100418 16:50:54< Zerovirus> aaaah
20100418 16:50:56< Androgeos> My MacBook is three years old, and the IBM beside it is seven.
20100418 16:51:15< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: did you already use it?
20100418 16:51:24< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: oh, do you have > 1 MP?
20100418 16:51:24< Zerovirus> No
20100418 16:51:37< Zerovirus> Yup
20100418 16:51:39< Zerovirus> Ah crap.
20100418 16:51:41< Aethaeryn> ?
20100418 16:51:47< Aethaeryn> oh, if it's next to an enemy
20100418 16:51:49< Zerovirus> My leader is so dead :P
20100418 16:51:53< Aethaeryn> it probably drains your MP and forces you to attack 
20100418 16:51:55< sevis> Aethaeryn: I use X because of easy scrolling, alt-tab and firefox. Mostly firefox.
20100418 16:51:58< Aethaeryn> due to ZoC
20100418 16:51:58< Gambit> Do you guys' computers have names?
20100418 16:52:06< Aethaeryn> I found out while fighting Hug on a rune.
20100418 16:52:21< Zerovirus> STUPID scouts draining mah villages!
20100418 16:52:23< sevis> Gambit: Yes, LotR characters. Installing on Fangorn at the moment.
20100418 16:52:26< Aethaeryn> sevis: Firefox, OpenOffice, Wesnoth, and VirtualBox
20100418 16:52:36< Aethaeryn> I can count on one hand the apps I use daily that *require* X
20100418 16:52:43< Androgeos> Gambit: My MacBook's called Heraklion.
20100418 16:53:02< Androgeos> It's name used to be my school student number.
20100418 16:53:04< Zerovirus> hah he escaped
20100418 16:53:15< Androgeos> Its*
20100418 16:53:27< sevis> Heh, I've switched to LaTeX for my documents.
20100418 16:53:29< Aethaeryn> Zerovirus: you're going to have to replay unless you debugged (breaks saves/replays)
20100418 16:53:49< Aethaeryn> sevis: what do you use for coding?
20100418 16:54:17< sevis> Aethaeryn: vim. I don't code much, though, mostly bash.
20100418 16:54:19< Zerovirus> Eh, I don't really mind.
20100418 16:54:28< Gambit> those aren't female names. what's wrong with you guys?
20100418 16:54:29< sevis> Some C++, thinking of learning python.
20100418 16:54:36< Aethaeryn> sevis: mostly a leading question, actually.
20100418 16:54:42< Aethaeryn> instead of asking if you code :P
20100418 16:54:49< Gambit> No wonder you're having such problems. You have to treat them like a lady.
20100418 16:54:55-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100418 16:55:06< sevis> Aethaeryn: Ah, heh. And you? Which languages, I mean?
20100418 16:55:10< Aethaeryn> Gambit: so I can't call my next computer Nazghul?
20100418 16:55:11< Gambit> Yeah; you'll get weird looks when you take your CPU out to dinner, but it's worth it.
20100418 16:55:20< sevis> Gambit: You have to treat them like an autistic crush.
20100418 16:55:31-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 16:55:45< Aethaeryn> sevis: Mostly scripting languages (including WML)... Working on Python and Java because I need them next year for school...
20100418 16:55:53< Aethaeryn> probably will learn some C++ if I need it.
20100418 16:56:36< sevis> Aethaeryn: I've done Java at school, but it was very basic. I'm thinking of improving my grip of SQL, there's no good terminal replacement for excel. :\
20100418 16:56:48< Aethaeryn> well, 201 is Python and 202 is Java
20100418 16:57:01< sevis> No idea what those are, sorry.
20100418 16:57:04< Aethaeryn> I already know a bit of Python
20100418 16:57:08< Aethaeryn> oh, CMSC 201 and CMSC 202
20100418 16:57:09< Aethaeryn> :P
20100418 16:57:13< Aethaeryn> As in, the gateways.
20100418 16:57:29< sevis> That doesn't say much... Classes?
20100418 16:57:29< Zerovirus> I am now going to use debug to summon up 1 of every single unit in Ageless era and have them kill each other.
20100418 16:57:42< Aethaeryn> CMSC 203 is logic, but that stuff's way too easy. Apparently everyone has trouble with it in the required-for-majors philosophy class on deductive logic. Everyone.
20100418 16:57:58< Aethaeryn> Except me.
20100418 16:58:02-!- zenhoobb-it [~hevien@host194-71-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
20100418 16:58:06< Blarumyrran> Wikipedia doesn't know of CMSC
20100418 16:58:24< Aethaeryn> I'm a philosophy major, but because (1) I've grown up on the computer and (2) symbolic logic comes natural to me, I'm doing some comp sci next year
20100418 16:58:28< Aethaeryn> Computer Science XD
20100418 16:58:29< Aethaeryn> sorry
20100418 16:58:39< Aethaeryn> I've dealt so long with the class codes (had to register for summer and fall)
20100418 16:58:43< Aethaeryn> That I think only in the codes
20100418 16:59:34< Aethaeryn> It's basically 201 (Python), 202 (Java), 203 (Logic), and then a lot of 300 levels, and then 400-level electives. That's how computer science works.
20100418 16:59:34< sevis> Studying IT and becoming a programmer was always my dream future, but ever since I've seen how human-oriented those courses are, I've decided to give up on it and go for either mathematics or physics.
20100418 16:59:42< Aethaeryn> ah
20100418 17:00:06< Blarumyrran> computer science isn't human-oriented, you could go for that
20100418 17:00:18< sevis> The stuff here in the NL is.
20100418 17:00:18< Aethaeryn> well, there are some human-oriented stuff
20100418 17:00:27< Aethaeryn> like wearable computing
20100418 17:00:29< Aethaeryn> and GUIs
20100418 17:00:42< Blarumyrran> sevis, Aethaeryn, that's IT not computer science
20100418 17:00:53< Aethaeryn> wearable computing is a comp sci class 400-level
20100418 17:00:58< sevis> My first reaction to most presentations on it is "What do you mean, vim isn't user-friendly?".
20100418 17:01:02< Aethaeryn> I'm tempted to just strap my Nexus One to my wrist and use it as a watch
20100418 17:01:15< sevis> Blarumyrran: I'm in the Netherlands, the names are all different here.
20100418 17:01:27< Gambit> Zerovirus: that will take a while.
20100418 17:01:48< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: There's two departments at UMBC... Information Systems and Computer Science (Computer Engineering too, but that's hardware).
20100418 17:01:49< sevis> I've not seen anything called "Computer Wetenschap", which would be the literal translation.
20100418 17:02:14< Aethaeryn> It seems like IS is the easier path, with lighter programming requirements, a few more general stuff (lower-level econ), and easier maths
20100418 17:02:20< Blarumyrran> sevis, I'm in estonia, and we have Informatics and Infotechnology area, and Informatics is translated as "computer science" in some places on the uni's site
20100418 17:02:36< Aethaeryn> And apparently IS is mostly geared at management :S
20100418 17:02:51< Zerovirus> What will again?
20100418 17:02:53< Aethaeryn> so the guys who are meant to be the bosses of the computer science grads are the ones unable to do the harder programming and maths.
20100418 17:02:56< Zerovirus> Oh, that.
20100418 17:03:00< Blarumyrran> And it isn't pure informatics, it does have some idiotic human-related stuff - but I'm sure there are many unis where pure CS is taught
20100418 17:03:00< Zerovirus> I decided not to.
20100418 17:03:09< Zerovirus> And instead I'm reading every single unit's help file.
20100418 17:03:14< Zerovirus> I love the Ceresian graphics now.
20100418 17:03:18< Aethaeryn> oh, UMBC is a research-oriented university.
20100418 17:03:26< Aethaeryn> I doubt our math and computer science are pure, especially grad-level.
20100418 17:03:38< Aethaeryn> In fact, we don't even have "Mathematics" at the grad level, it's "Applied Mathematics"
20100418 17:03:38< Zerovirus> so beautiful. The halberdier.
20100418 17:03:41< Zerovirus> Look at that halberd.
20100418 17:04:33< Blarumyrran> (by "idiotic human-related stuff" I mean eg social informatics - there are huge long texts with really buffed up words - and the writer has seemingly mostly sritten them just to show how deep and scientific it all is - but if you concentrate on what the text actual means, it doesn't actually say ANYTHING)
20100418 17:05:07< Aethaeryn> ah, I'm fairly confident all the idiotic stuff would be in the Information Systems department.
20100418 17:05:27< Aethaeryn> Not the Computer Science one ;P
20100418 17:05:42< Blarumyrran> For all I know, those texts could've been written by chomskybot and I'd never know the difference
20100418 17:05:43< Gambit> SM to the courtesy desk
20100418 17:06:00< sevis> Blarumyrran: Hm, well, "informatica" is the main thing I've seen here, translated computer science. I sometimes look at what the Free University offers, it's got some interesting parts, like writing compilers, but meh.
20100418 17:06:09< Zerovirus> Aaahhhh, so many sprites to frankenstein, so little time
20100418 17:07:29< sevis> Writing compilers is fun...
20100418 17:07:46< Aethaeryn> http://www.umbc.edu/catalog/display.php?major=18
20100418 17:08:09< Aethaeryn> if that gives any insight in how things are done in the US
20100418 17:09:05< Blarumyrran> tl;dr
20100418 17:09:15< Gambit> Ugh.
20100418 17:09:46< sevis> Sorry, a little busy to read at the moment.
20100418 17:11:06< sevis> As I said, getting another box set up. :D
20100418 17:11:44< Zerovirus> Issaelfr is also cool :P
20100418 17:14:36< Gambit> Is anyone else worried that the new ghast might actually be raising the bar too far?
20100418 17:14:40< Gambit> I mean it's just so...
20100418 17:14:44< Gambit> o_O
20100418 17:15:09< Aethaeryn> yeah, whatever jerk drew that is too good
20100418 17:15:13< Aethaeryn> I say we vote him off the island.
20100418 17:15:20< Blarumyrran> Yeah, in 1.10 all sprites will have mouths 10 pixels wide
20100418 17:15:29< Aethaeryn> sometimes in reality shows you have to get rid of the biggest threats.
20100418 17:15:31< Zerovirus> :)
20100418 17:15:41< Zerovirus> Also I have now reached the hated section of the Therians
20100418 17:15:49< Zerovirus> whose graphics I will only look at for the sake of completion.
20100418 17:16:04< Blarumyrran> the completion of what
20100418 17:16:11< Aethaeryn> his evil scheme
20100418 17:16:25< Gambit> To view all of ageless era in one sitting!
20100418 17:16:41< Blarumyrran> Sounds like a plan
20100418 17:16:44< Zerovirus> Ayup
20100418 17:16:47< Zerovirus> And now I'm at Ukians
20100418 17:16:56< Zerovirus> Good god did Doofus suck this much in the past?
20100418 17:17:16< Aethaeryn> woah, note to self, do not speed read
20100418 17:17:24< Blarumyrran> They aren't that bad
20100418 17:17:27< Aethaeryn> I read that as "goo god"
20100418 17:17:50< Zerovirus> But they aren't even close to Doofus's current quality.
20100418 17:17:55< Zerovirus> The vampires are cool.
20100418 17:18:02< Aethaeryn> I don't like the vampires 
20100418 17:18:08< Blarumyrran> Doofus made vampires?
20100418 17:18:08< Aethaeryn> Way too un-Wesnoth in style.
20100418 17:18:11< Zerovirus> Oh hey Aethaeryn I got to the WARG! :D
20100418 17:18:14< Zerovirus> No, Doofus didn't.
20100418 17:18:21< Zerovirus> But it's right after Ukians in AE.
20100418 17:18:29< Blarumyrran> What is his "current quality" then
20100418 17:18:42< Aethaeryn> When I make vampires as campaign monsters in Thunderstone III, I'll draw them differently.
20100418 17:19:56< Zerovirus> Thunderstone III: Revenge of the Shaxthal. Featuring Darth Argan.
20100418 17:19:58< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, when you'll add virtual reality controls to your 3d thunderstone engine running on holographic projector devices that will replace monitors as we currently know them, you'll do it differently
20100418 17:20:07< Gambit> Ahem
20100418 17:20:20< Zerovirus> Wood warriors yay
20100418 17:20:29< Gambit> I think you mean Thunderstone III: Return of the Elves
20100418 17:20:49< Gambit> Actually if you're a true fan you might call number 3 revenge...
20100418 17:20:56< Gambit> That was the original title of what is now episode 6
20100418 17:21:00< Gambit> Revenge of the Jedi
20100418 17:21:11< Gambit> they printed posters for it and everything
20100418 17:21:24< Gambit> But lucas says "Wait... Jedi don't believe in revenge..."
20100418 17:21:43< Blarumyrran> And lotr's 3. part is Return also
20100418 17:21:48< Blarumyrran> That is like, two in one
20100418 17:21:59-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100418 17:22:14< Gambit> Aethaeryn: How about you finish thunderstone I :D
20100418 17:22:25< Gambit> And where do Vampires come in? :s
20100418 17:23:18< Blarumyrran> Gambit, in part III
20100418 17:23:35< Gambit> *how -_-
20100418 17:23:50< Blarumyrran> Riding on tamed elves
20100418 17:24:20< Blarumyrran> with horseshoes and all
20100418 17:24:38< Gambit> *why?
20100418 17:24:51< Zerovirus> leavin :D
20100418 17:24:55< Gambit> You make me sad sometime Blarumyrran.
20100418 17:24:57-!- Zerovirus [~62c45c53@gateway/web/freenode/x-nspcdiwfqjxmhjqz] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100418 17:25:01< Blarumyrran> Why do they come in, or why riding on elves?
20100418 17:25:23< Blarumyrran> Gambit, I hope you don't mean you're sorry for the elves
20100418 17:29:35< Aethaeryn> Gambit: iirwiir
20100418 17:29:53< Aethaeryn> and it won't be released one second sooner
20100418 17:30:02< Blarumyrran> iirwhenhellfreezesover
20100418 17:30:12< Blarumyrran> not a second later than that
20100418 17:31:09< Gambit> I just got off the phone with Satan.
20100418 17:31:15< Gambit> Apparently it's freezing down there.
20100418 17:31:32-!- Sacho [~sacho@87-126-220-246.btc-net.bg] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 17:31:33< Blarumyrran> Actually, Aethaeryn, that doesn't make sense
20100418 17:32:13< Blarumyrran> At some point of time when Thunderstone will become "ready", it will enter a stage of readiness that will last more than at least one second
20100418 17:32:53< Gambit> Well it's still not being released sooner than ready.
20100418 17:32:56< Blarumyrran> A second sooner than the moment near the end of that stage, it will then also be ready
20100418 17:32:57< Aethaeryn> yes, but iirwiir is a tuatology.
20100418 17:33:00< Aethaeryn> *tautology
20100418 17:33:03< Aethaeryn> it will always be true
20100418 17:33:10< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, you said "not a second sooner"
20100418 17:33:19< Aethaeryn> yes, it won't be released a second sooner than it is ready.
20100418 17:33:28< Blarumyrran> Yes, and that is illogical
20100418 17:33:35< Aethaeryn> (1) it's an idiom
20100418 17:33:37< Blarumyrran> As I just said above
20100418 17:33:44< Aethaeryn> (2) does not necessarilly mean that it won't be released seconds late :P
20100418 17:34:04< Aethaeryn> and actually yes, a second before it crosses the "ready" line it will not be ready
20100418 17:34:15< Blarumyrran> How is (2) relevant
20100418 17:34:58< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, something isn't ready when crossing the line of being ready
20100418 17:35:04< Gambit> Will the owner of the blue and white blog please come to his keyboard.
20100418 17:35:10< Blarumyrran> Or well it could be, but that is irrelevant - 
20100418 17:35:22< Blarumyrran> since everything is always "ready" for a period
20100418 17:35:30< Gambit> Right
20100418 17:35:32< Blarumyrran> possibly lasting forever beginning from some point of time
20100418 17:35:33< Gambit> and while it's ready.
20100418 17:35:35< Gambit> It's ready.
20100418 17:35:48< Blarumyrran> possibly not, but it will surely last more than one second, which is what matters
20100418 17:36:20< sevis> while (ready) ready = true;
20100418 17:36:25< sevis> Looks perfectly logical to me.
20100418 17:36:52< Blarumyrran> sevis, what was that supposed to be related to
20100418 17:37:49< Aethaeryn> R ≡ R
20100418 17:37:53< Aethaeryn> Is another way of thinking about it.
20100418 17:37:54< sevis> Your declaration of it being illogical. I don't see why you find that the ready stage lasting a (possibly infinite) duration makes it impossible.
20100418 17:38:02< sevis> illogical*
20100418 17:38:08< Blarumyrran> sevis, uhm what
20100418 17:38:15< Blarumyrran> When did I say that
20100418 17:38:49< Blarumyrran> Since you didn't bother to read a bit above, I'll repeat I meant "<Aethaeryn> and it won't be released one second sooner"
20100418 17:39:53< sevis> I've been reading from the beginning of this. You claimed that it didn't make sense, which it does.
20100418 17:40:09< Blarumyrran> Why did you speak that nonsense right now then
20100418 17:40:26< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: to phrase it differently (but equivalent in meaning)...
20100418 17:40:29< sevis> In what language exactly is what I said nonsense?
20100418 17:40:31< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: If it is not ready, it will not be released.
20100418 17:40:45< Aethaeryn> Which is a corrolary of the tautology "it is ready when it is ready"
20100418 17:40:59< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, you did not handle it as a tautology
20100418 17:41:18< sevis> Although, I admit, to intergrate that statement about "a second sooner", it should be ready_for_release, not merely ready.
20100418 17:41:19< Aethaeryn> well... "state of readiness = state of readiness"
20100418 17:41:19< Blarumyrran> A tautology is not a point in time, you can't have something happens sooner than a tautology
20100418 17:41:25< Blarumyrran> You were referring to the point in time
20100418 17:41:44< Aethaeryn> ok, w/e
20100418 17:41:49< Aethaeryn> you win, I concede this argument.
20100418 17:41:53< Aethaeryn> you win whatever prize you get.
20100418 17:41:56< Aethaeryn> I have to go back to mapping.
20100418 17:41:56< Blarumyrran> Yay
20100418 17:41:58< Aethaeryn> no time for this.
20100418 17:42:01< Aethaeryn> you won the Internet. 
20100418 17:42:04< sevis> Erm. ready = ready does evaluate to something, so the switching of it is a point in time.
20100418 17:42:35< Blarumyrran> sevis, are you saying every tautology is a certain time?
20100418 17:43:14< Blarumyrran> Tell me what date and time is  hamster=hamster then. Or 7=7.
20100418 17:43:29< Aethaeryn> well, I can tell you the date of time a descriptor happens.
20100418 17:43:34< Aethaeryn> like when someone turns 7
20100418 17:43:36< sevis> I'm not saying anything about *every* tautology. I'm saying that this specific tautology evaluates to a boolean, so you can have something prior to it.
20100418 17:43:40< Aethaeryn> if 7 is being used in that sense.
20100418 17:43:54< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, as I said then you're not refferring to it as a tautology
20100418 17:44:31< Blarumyrran> sevis, ... you can have things happen sooner than a boolean?
20100418 17:44:39< Blarumyrran> What date and time is true then
20100418 17:44:59< sevis> Yes. while (!boolean) { stuff; }.
20100418 17:45:07< Blarumyrran> sevis, DATE and TIME
20100418 17:45:21< sevis> Date and time are irrelevant.
20100418 17:45:33< Blarumyrran> a point of time relates to, uh... TIME
20100418 17:46:29< sevis> A point in time does not need to relate to the system of time we use. Every change occurs at a point in time, and thus every change can be shown as one.
20100418 17:46:38-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 17:46:44< Blarumyrran> Since (it is ready when it is ready) is always true, anything can't happen before it, or everything will happen before it
20100418 17:47:19< Blarumyrran> sevis, what change
20100418 17:47:35< sevis> Erm. var=false evaluates to false in just about every language I know.
20100418 17:47:50< Blarumyrran> I'm not following?
20100418 17:48:08< sevis> Thus var=var with var==false being true would evaluate to false.
20100418 17:48:41< Blarumyrran> What var=var
20100418 17:48:50< sevis> In fact, var=var is generally the equivalent of var, which can evaluate to both.
20100418 17:48:59< Blarumyrran> And what do you mean with =
20100418 17:49:05< Blarumyrran> like in C sense or pascal sense
20100418 17:49:11< sevis> C sense.
20100418 17:50:23-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 17:52:10< Blarumyrran> Then it's not a tautology
20100418 17:52:20< Blarumyrran> Which Aethaeryn said it was
20100418 17:53:09< sevis> I wouldn't know about that, could be either.
20100418 17:53:26< Gambit> Can anything really be ready?
20100418 17:53:32< Gambit> I mean what is ready?
20100418 17:53:36< sevis> Yes, it can.
20100418 17:53:40< Blarumyrran> Gambit, yes, your mother totally was last night
20100418 17:53:43< Gambit> LOL
20100418 17:53:46< sevis> Yes, things can.*
20100418 17:53:58< Blarumyrran> sevis just called her a thing, too
20100418 18:01:53-!- SynrG [~synrg@debian/developer/synrg] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 18:02:33< SynrG> ooh, 1.8? what's new, and when will it be in debian? Rhonda?
20100418 18:03:28 * SynrG is in the middle of installing 1.6.5 to play with his son (a formerly wesnoth-incapable system, in recent months upgraded with a decent gfx card)
20100418 18:03:51< SynrG> well, not incapable, just ... less capable
20100418 18:04:57< Gambit> SynrG: All new drake graphics
20100418 18:05:00< Gambit> 2 new campaigns.
20100418 18:05:17< Gambit> A brand new multiplayer lobby
20100418 18:05:33< Gambit> And a free action figure of Dave with every download.
20100418 18:05:44 * SynrG goes to lookat news release on the site
20100418 18:05:45< Gambit> *void where prohibited, while supplies last
20100418 18:05:49< SynrG> ahaha
20100418 18:06:47-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B27545D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 18:08:04< Androgeos> Gambit: You forgot the music...
20100418 18:08:33< Androgeos> SynrG: What graphics card did you have before your upgrade?
20100418 18:09:40< Aethaeryn> Anyone want to test out my new map?
20100418 18:10:01< Blarumyrran> where
20100418 18:10:02< Aethaeryn> And by new, I mean I made it in November but no one was on the 1.7 server so I had to wait until 1.8 was released to test it
20100418 18:10:20-!- Woodmouse [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has joined #wesnoth
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20100418 18:10:52< Gambit> And by map he means scenario.
20100418 18:10:58< Gambit> And by test he means play.
20100418 18:11:23 * Androgeos is distracted by ... stuff.
20100418 18:11:46< Blarumyrran> Okay, I'm on 1.8
20100418 18:12:01< Blarumyrran> (rc1, but it's about the same I think)
20100418 18:12:28< Aethaeryn> aw, shit, I forgot two things. I forgot to set traits on the bats so random traits on the spawn doesn't screw things up
20100418 18:12:35< Aethaeryn> and I forgot to trigger the open/close for one of the traps
20100418 18:12:38< Aethaeryn> give me about 5 min
20100418 18:13:05< Blarumyrran> Wasn't the random traits oos thing fixed ages ago?
20100418 18:15:45< zookeeper> they were
20100418 18:15:50< zookeeper> it was
20100418 18:16:31-!- lizard_r [~Rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has left #wesnoth []
20100418 18:17:20< Aethaeryn> I don't trust it
20100418 18:17:45< Gambit> zookeeper: I told you. We UMC guys are superstitious people.
20100418 18:17:48< Aethaeryn> I've gotten OOS in fixed areas before.
20100418 18:17:55< Aethaeryn> So I try not to tread on areas that even once were bugs
20100418 18:18:22< Aethaeryn> Gambit is right.
20100418 18:18:40< Aethaeryn> doing one more local test to make sure it all works
20100418 18:18:42< Aethaeryn> then i'll host
20100418 18:19:27< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Can you believe the other day, Zookeeper was questioning our use of the [+images] tag?
20100418 18:20:44< Aethaeryn> well, I write stuff that don't require download :P
20100418 18:22:18< zookeeper> ...
20100418 18:22:20< Aethaeryn> wow, found another set of bugs
20100418 18:23:56-!- Samwise [~Samwise@p57B1A02F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
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20100418 18:26:35< Aethaeryn> Finally.
20100418 18:27:43< Gambit> Yay. Ileet_PeeP found his place.
20100418 18:27:55< Gambit> Now he just needs to lay off the smileys.
20100418 18:27:59< Gambit> And work on spelling.
20100418 18:28:21< Aethaeryn> Gambit: want to play or is several hours too short of a game for you?
20100418 18:28:51< Aethaeryn> I realize just over a thousand lines is tiny for a scenario cfg
20100418 18:30:18-!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-235-193-239.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100418 18:30:35< Gambit> Hehe.
20100418 18:30:45< Gambit> Sorry Aethaeryn I can't right now.
20100418 18:31:07< Gambit> While it may seem like I sit here and chat all day, I'm actually working.
20100418 18:33:01-!- retupmoca` [~retupmoca@adsl-76-236-188-125.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100418 18:33:11 * Gambit has clients.
20100418 18:34:45< Aethaeryn> meh
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20100418 18:39:15-!- ShadowChild is now known as lukjad86
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20100418 19:00:46-!- Rigor [~Viktor@chello084114215177.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 19:00:49< Rigor> hi
20100418 19:01:28-!- [NaL] [~Steve@CPE00134642ef27-CM001cea399e32.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 19:01:47 * Gambit highlights shadowmaster. Good morning... er afternoon.
20100418 19:02:05< Androgeos> Good night here, but I'm not going off yet.
20100418 19:02:05< shadowmaster> die
20100418 19:02:14< shadowmaster> sorry, that was for Gambit 
20100418 19:02:20< Androgeos> Yeah, I know.
20100418 19:02:30 * Gambit dies.
20100418 19:02:45< Gambit> So you're in a good mood then? :D
20100418 19:02:52< shadowmaster> no
20100418 19:03:08< Rigor> you guys know that there r no attachments possible for off-topic ?
20100418 19:03:16< shadowmaster> yes, and that's a feature
20100418 19:03:19< Gambit> Rigor: Yes.
20100418 19:03:22< shadowmaster> otherwise people would upload crap there
20100418 19:03:26< Rigor> i c XD
20100418 19:03:32< Rigor> is there a possible workaround ?
20100418 19:03:36< shadowmaster> no
20100418 19:03:41< Rigor> no i mean
20100418 19:03:42< Gambit> Upload images elsewhere and [img] them.
20100418 19:03:49< Rigor> is there a file repository or somethign liek that
20100418 19:03:55< Rigor> itrs a savegame
20100418 19:03:56< shadowmaster> *Upload files elsewhere and link them
20100418 19:04:01< Rigor> elseWHERE ? :)
20100418 19:04:02< Gambit> They don't want to waste server space on things not wesnothy.
20100418 19:04:11< Rigor> np so where
20100418 19:04:13< Gambit> Rigor: googledocs?
20100418 19:04:16< shadowmaster> it's not my task to advertise any particular filesharing service
20100418 19:04:17< Gambit> I dunno.
20100418 19:04:36< Rigor> i think u wrote stuff in there too gambit
20100418 19:04:40< shadowmaster> if it isn't too much Off-Topic you could post it in Users' and I move it to OT
20100418 19:04:54< Gambit> Rigor: ?
20100418 19:04:54< Rigor> its :D 
20100418 19:05:01< Rigor> very much off topic
20100418 19:05:06< Rigor> its in the favorite games thread
20100418 19:05:08< Gambit> I don't understand your last one.
20100418 19:05:22< Rigor> i read about some guys speaking about geneforge as if it was the best game ever 
20100418 19:05:38< Rigor> and i tried the demo, i liked it a lot. now i have a 86kb savegame :D
20100418 19:05:54< Rigor> ah, i thought u posted in this one too gambit
20100418 19:06:04< Gambit> What "one"?
20100418 19:06:07< Gambit> Off-topic?
20100418 19:06:08< Rigor> favorite games
20100418 19:06:10< Rigor> yes
20100418 19:06:15< Gambit> Yeah I love off topic ;)
20100418 19:06:31< Rigor> off topic is cool :)
20100418 19:06:46< shadowmaster> off-topic is a mess :(
20100418 19:06:52< Rigor> makes u look as if u had somethign else too in life, except wesnoth ;)
20100418 19:06:56< Gambit> Rigor: I think googledocs allows all filetypes now.
20100418 19:07:03< Rigor> few posts yes
20100418 19:07:16< Gambit> shadowmaster: It is.
20100418 19:07:31< Rigor> ah cool i thought id have to create this thread, but it exists already. "what do u read right now" :)
20100418 19:07:34< Gambit> [begin hypocrisy]
20100418 19:07:50< Gambit> It's gone from off-topic, yet serious discussions, to just total garbage magnet.
20100418 19:08:12< Gambit> [/end hypocrisy]
20100418 19:08:26< Rigor> :D
20100418 19:09:01< Blarumyrran> off-topic, yet serious discussions = religion flamewar?
20100418 19:09:22< Gambit> No.
20100418 19:09:29< Gambit> They predate the religious flamewar.
20100418 19:09:43< Blarumyrran> Nothing predates religious flamewar
20100418 19:09:44< Rigor> i never experienced a religious flamewar
20100418 19:09:48< Gambit> In fact I'd say the Are You a Good Person thread was a huge mile marker in the degredation.
20100418 19:09:58< Gambit> Blarumyrran: lol.
20100418 19:09:58< Rigor> btw great mvies & book fire and sword
20100418 19:10:33< Rigor> from a polish guy who wrote it to inspire the polish ppl in times they had no own state (most of the time :D )
20100418 19:11:27-!- [NaL] is now known as [AfK]
20100418 19:11:36-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 19:11:43< Rigor> i get going, my friend is there
20100418 19:11:52-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Client Quit]
20100418 19:11:57< Gambit>  That was fast.
20100418 19:11:57< wesbot> Gambit: Sometimes we are fast
20100418 19:11:57< Rigor> however ill stay online to watch your discussion later ;)
20100418 19:12:11< Gambit> *quick >_>
20100418 19:12:12< Rigor> yeah hes a fast eater it seems :D
20100418 19:12:28< Gambit> Rigor: I meant king elendil.
20100418 19:12:39< Gambit> He left in 25 seconds...
20100418 19:12:40< Rigor> a yeah ok so bb and cya
20100418 19:12:45< Gambit> *16?
20100418 19:12:51 * Gambit doens't want to do math on the weekend.
20100418 19:12:54< Gambit> Rigor: Bye.
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20100418 19:38:50< King_Elendil> How are you SekoIdiootti?
20100418 19:39:01-!- lizard_r [~Rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 19:39:04< SekoIdiootti> I'm weird
20100418 19:39:12< King_Elendil> I know :p
20100418 19:39:19< King_Elendil> just kidding
20100418 19:39:25< SekoIdiootti> (everyone knows it, lol)
20100418 19:39:42< SekoIdiootti> BUT there are weirder people. Even here, in #wesnoth...
20100418 19:39:45< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100418 19:40:25< King_Elendil> XD
20100418 19:40:53-!- Tesafilmchen [~quassel@p5B27545D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100418 19:44:08< Androgeos> Did something happen?
20100418 19:44:34< King_Elendil> what?
20100418 19:45:01< Androgeos> That was a response to this...
20100418 19:45:03< Androgeos> [01:39]	<SekoIdiootti>	BUT there are weirder people. Even here, in #wesnoth...
20100418 19:45:23< King_Elendil> oh
20100418 19:45:42< SekoIdiootti> ?
20100418 19:47:21< Androgeos> If I stay in one community for far too long, I start to "weirden" up to it.
20100418 19:52:29-!- Aloice [aloice@c-98-198-88-31.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth
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20100418 20:07:36< Rigor> ahem
20100418 20:07:43< Rigor> id like o know something
20100418 20:09:08< Rigor> when grrr made his mod, he posted it in the UMC repository to let it be maintained by other players if they want to do that, right? so where can you look at his files and change them to adapt it to the newest 1.8...1...2...3 versions ? 
20100418 20:16:27< Gambit> Download it?
20100418 20:18:49< Rigor> and then ?
20100418 20:19:00-!- Pentarctagon [~chatzilla@c-24-15-243-148.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 20:19:06< Gambit> Then update it.
20100418 20:19:11< Rigor> how
20100418 20:19:23< Gambit> I can't teach you WML. :P
20100418 20:19:28< Rigor> i dont need that
20100418 20:19:33< Rigor> i have somebody who will do it :D
20100418 20:19:37< Gambit> Then contact grr after you're done.
20100418 20:19:47< Gambit> If he doesn't get back to you, screw him and upload it yourself. :D
20100418 20:20:08< Gambit> Rigor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
20100418 20:20:22< Gambit> Just don't tell Mr. Raymond I told you to do that. ;)
20100418 20:20:36< Rigor> so how to do it: you just download his mod, change it to work under 1.8/1/2/3 (contact grrr of c) and then you upload it where exactely ?
20100418 20:21:21< Rigor> ill read through it later :) but nice policy from our dearest friend, microsoft :)
20100418 20:21:33-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 20:22:59< Gambit> Rigor: Search the wiki for info on uploading to the addon server.
20100418 20:23:07< Gambit> You need a pbl file.
20100418 20:24:43< Rigor> thanks for your help
20100418 20:24:46< Rigor> =)
20100418 20:26:45< Gambit> Rigor: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Distributing_content#The_Add-on_Server
20100418 20:26:54< Rigor> kewl thanks for the link
20100418 20:28:10-!- iwaim [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e::1] has joined #wesnoth
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20100418 20:32:31< Gambit> Okay I tried getting along with this kid, but I can't.
20100418 20:32:32< Gambit> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=422798#p422798
20100418 20:33:38< Gambit> shadowmaster: ^^
20100418 20:33:58< Gambit> How are those re-education camps coming?
20100418 20:34:12-!- eyerouge1 [~eyerouge@c-a191e355.247-29-64736c16.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 20:34:42< Rigor> wow that looks awesome
20100418 20:35:06< Gambit> -_-
20100418 20:35:13< Rigor> does this guy scratch his ear ? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=40028
20100418 20:35:24< Rigor> oops wrong one http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=40027
20100418 20:35:50-!- vjoe [~vjoe@client-86-25-240-203.mcr-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 20:36:09< Rigor> ah too bad he doesnt reply to your changes :D
20100418 20:36:16< Rigor> just read the text now, actually :)
20100418 20:36:30-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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20100418 20:38:34< Gambit> lol it was removed.
20100418 20:39:24< Gambit> Either he did it himself (which would be a sign of maturity) or one of the mods is logged in anounimously.
20100418 20:39:33< Gambit> There is one hidden user right now.
20100418 20:41:17< Rigor> i c :)
20100418 20:43:21< Blarumyrran> Any user can be hidden, it's just a profile setting
20100418 20:43:59< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Really? I didn't know. [/sarcasm]
20100418 20:44:24< Gambit> But "any user" can't delete posts *and* not show up on the "who is online" page.
20100418 20:44:25< Blarumyrran> Why the sarcasm, I'm sure many people don't know
20100418 20:44:38< Gambit> *edit posts
20100418 20:44:41< Blarumyrran> Gambit, I can delete my posts and not show up there
20100418 20:44:44< Blarumyrran> *edit
20100418 20:44:53< Gambit> *edit other peoples posts.
20100418 20:45:12< Blarumyrran> Isn't the latter part irrelevant then
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20100418 20:56:13< Gambit> OH. He's riding it?
20100418 20:57:46< Gambit> Nope. Still innuendo.
20100418 21:01:29-!- martin___ [~martin@g227202253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100418 21:02:51< Gambit> He removed it again...
20100418 21:03:56< Gambit> And he put it back again.
20100418 21:04:13 * Gambit should probably stop spamming about this now. Sorry.
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20100418 21:35:05< SynrG> ah ... re Androgeos question about the gfx card that wasn't really wesnoth-capable before. well, it's not so much the card, per se, as a lot of other components changed at the same time (k6-2/400-based system, and some crappy card in that ... not sure what it was anymore) it became an amd 64 x2 dual core w. ati hd 4350 ... but i wasn't using the machine at all for any sort of gaming until the free xorg radeon driver fully supported the card.  ...
20100418 21:35:12< SynrG> ... ever since that happened, one by one, i've been putting games onto the system. wesnoth's turn didn't come until today
20100418 21:35:58< SynrG> btw, i really enjoyed that 2p cooperative survival game (i forget the title) ... i was playing that with my son today and found it very instructive.
20100418 21:36:48< sevis> Yay, another Linux user!
20100418 21:36:49< SynrG> i'm afraid we didn't survive very long (just 22 turns). next time we'll do better, i'm sure
20100418 21:37:01< SynrG> ah. an old linux user :)
20100418 21:37:15< SynrG> i've been a fan for some time, but we haven't really played wesnoth for some months
20100418 21:37:16< sevis> Congrats on the upgrade.
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20100418 21:37:52< SynrG> the ps3 has gotten a lot of the attention from the gamers in the household lately ... but there's only so much of that we can afford to buy ... and then it's back to the tried and true linux stuff
20100418 21:40:26< Gambit> SynrG: That's what sucks about the gaming industry. Buy like 6 games and you're almost in it for as much as the console cost you.
20100418 21:41:07< SynrG> mind you, little big planet ... we continue to get our money's worth from
20100418 21:41:38< Gambit> Indeed.
20100418 21:41:59< sevis> But six games, if chosen well, is a lot.
20100418 21:42:16< SynrG> ya
20100418 21:42:47< sevis> I can't think of any PS3 titles at the moment, but AoE2 + Civ4 + M2:TW will already provide countless hours, if you're into strategies.
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20100418 21:43:23< sevis> While CS should provide no less if you're into shooters.
20100418 21:43:33< Gambit> It's really about replay value.
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20100418 21:43:46< Gambit> Little Big Planet has insane amounts of this.
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20100418 21:44:04< sevis> Don't know it, sorry.
20100418 21:44:40< Gambit> It's a 2D platformer, in 3D graphics, and 3 planes.
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20100418 21:45:03< Blarumyrran> When it comes to 2d platformers, no game has and ever will beat Another World
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20100418 21:46:27< sevis> Ah, okay.
20100418 21:46:57< sevis> I've found that scripting and messing with my system has pretty much entirely replaced games for me.
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20100418 21:48:00< SynrG> the nice thing about LBP is it caters well to the tastes of our family of seven ... all ages
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20100418 23:49:55-!- [AfK] is now known as [NaL]
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 19 00:00:14 2010