--- Log opened Fri Apr 30 00:00:33 2010
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20100430 01:52:28< Gambit> Rhonda is level 72 on idle rpg. 0_0
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20100430 02:18:46< Gambit> My family is messing with me right now.
20100430 02:18:58< Gambit> They flipped the stereo to this station that plays terrible music.
20100430 02:19:04< Gambit> Pop or whatever it's called.
20100430 02:19:07< Gambit> And the DJ is gay.
20100430 02:19:07< Aethaeryn> Music is subjective.
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20100430 02:19:17< Gambit> And they won't let me change it.
20100430 02:19:21< Aethaeryn> Actually, "pop" crap becomes pop because it is pop.
20100430 02:19:29< Aethaeryn> The more you listen to a song, the better it sounds.
20100430 02:19:37< Aethaeryn> And they pop in the background of shows, etc., until you get used to it.
20100430 02:19:59< Aethaeryn> it's basically a version of the Nazi Big Lie... except applied to music.
20100430 02:20:04< Aethaeryn> Listen to something enough and it's catchy.
20100430 02:20:32< Gambit> Any station that reports on American idle and spends 5 minutes discussing Lindsey Lohan needs to get out of my house :@
20100430 02:20:43< Aethaeryn> Fuck celebrities.
20100430 02:20:46< Aethaeryn> No, not that way.
20100430 02:20:48< Blarumyrran> What's wrong with pop
20100430 02:20:55< Aethaeryn> Celebrities have the worst moral characters.
20100430 02:21:09< Aethaeryn> And I'm sorry, but at least one person judges people by character before looks. That person is me.
20100430 02:21:19 * Gambit blasts the offspring in revenge!
20100430 02:21:41< Blarumyrran> I don't listen to a lot of music, but I looked Pokerface up on youtube, and it was good
20100430 02:21:48< Aethaeryn> Meh.
20100430 02:21:59< Aethaeryn> They're all just governed by their desires.
20100430 02:22:09< Aethaeryn> (You can tell when someone has had one too many classes in classical philosophy.)
20100430 02:22:35< Blarumyrran> Yes, they start using very fluffy words for no obvious reason
20100430 02:22:36< Aethaeryn> (And that's when they start using the reason/spirit/desire division outside of class.)
20100430 02:23:50< Aethaeryn> Honestly, if there's one thing where there's actually been a regression rather than progress in society, it's the lack of focus on virtue/character and self-restraint.
20100430 02:25:06< Aethaeryn> And yes, self-restraint can be taken to an extreme (look at monks).
20100430 02:25:25< Aethaeryn> But hey, moderation is a Greek virtue too. That doesn't imply excess in either direction. :P
20100430 02:26:18< Gambit> Roxaaaaaaane
20100430 02:26:19< Blarumyrran> What has that got to do with music
20100430 02:26:22< Gambit> Roxaaaaaaaane.
20100430 02:26:32< Gambit> *2 n's
20100430 02:26:38< Blarumyrran> Gambit, what
20100430 02:27:04< Aethaeryn> Meh.
20100430 02:27:49< Gambit> Blarumyrran: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO7q5z5wbNc
20100430 02:28:00< Gambit> I'm playing the most annoying (to them) songs in my collection >:[
20100430 02:28:18< Aethaeryn> 90% of music, regardless of the style is basically about the same stuff.
20100430 02:28:32< Aethaeryn> Whether it's rap, rock, or pop, they're talking about dating and sex most of the time.
20100430 02:28:35< Gambit> This one's about a prostitute (I think)
20100430 02:28:38< Aethaeryn> hah.
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20100430 02:28:39< Aethaeryn> told you
20100430 02:28:41< Aethaeryn> called it
20100430 02:28:43< Gambit> And they sang about it before that was cool ;)
20100430 02:28:55< Aethaeryn> Meh.
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20100430 02:29:10< Gambit> And instead of shooting her (here's looking at you rap) he wants to save her.
20100430 02:29:34< Aethaeryn> I've stopped wanting to become normal after I've realized how stupidly people chase after fleeting things.
20100430 02:30:05< Aethaeryn> Even our culture's focus on athleticism is telling... When do you peak and retire? You're ancient if you're in your late 30s.
20100430 02:30:07< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, and you chase after what other people don't chase for, just to feel superior
20100430 02:30:21< Aethaeryn> Oh, I don't *feel* superior. I *am* superior. :P
20100430 02:30:23< Gambit> On that note (fleetingness); I bought a book the other day that was supposed to be about the psychology of time. It turned out to be a self help book disguised as science.
20100430 02:30:28< Blarumyrran> That is irrelevant
20100430 02:30:37< Blarumyrran> You do it to feel superior
20100430 02:30:43< Aethaeryn> Hey, the hard work of school would be too stressful if you don't stop and remind yourself every now and then...
20100430 02:30:47< Blarumyrran> Because if the masses do thing A, then B must be superior
20100430 02:30:48< Aethaeryn> Then most people don't make it this far (college).
20100430 02:30:53< Aethaeryn> No.
20100430 02:30:56< Aethaeryn> Not necessarily.
20100430 02:30:58< Aethaeryn> The masses are not cannibals.
20100430 02:31:02< Aethaeryn> Cannibalism is not superior.
20100430 02:31:10< Gambit> Sure it is.
20100430 02:31:15< Aethaeryn> The difference is *accomplishment*.
20100430 02:31:20< Gambit> From the cannibalists point of view.
20100430 02:31:21< Aethaeryn> If you get to an accomplishment that most people don't get to.
20100430 02:31:21< Blarumyrran> No it's not
20100430 02:31:40< Aethaeryn> Most people don't kill. It's still not a good thing to kill.
20100430 02:31:50< Gambit> The killers wouldn't agree.
20100430 02:31:53< Gambit> They had a reason.
20100430 02:32:17< Aethaeryn> Ah... Some killing has reason. Other killing is accidental. And then there's murder.
20100430 02:32:22< Gambit> Everything is subjective. Even subjectiveness itself :o
20100430 02:32:24< Aethaeryn> There's a distinction between killing a murder here we have to make.
20100430 02:32:43< Aethaeryn> Gambit: If the truth value of that statement is subjective... Then that means you might be wrong.
20100430 02:32:48< Aethaeryn> Which means that maybe everything isn't subjective.
20100430 02:32:52< Gambit> Rambo or Jack the Ripper.
20100430 02:32:55< Gambit> They both had reasons.
20100430 02:33:04< Gambit> Soliders or school shooters.
20100430 02:33:11< Aethaeryn> Right, they were pursuing what they assumed was the right thing (for them).
20100430 02:33:12< Aethaeryn> They were wrong.
20100430 02:33:20< Aethaeryn> The latter.
20100430 02:33:27< Aethaeryn> The soldiers are fulfilling a duty. Killing to prevent worse evil.
20100430 02:33:34< Aethaeryn> It still isn't that right, but it's necessary.
20100430 02:33:37< Aethaeryn> There's a difference.
20100430 02:33:40< Gambit> The terrorists wouldn't agree.
20100430 02:33:47< Gambit> There's a difference to you and I./
20100430 02:33:49< Aethaeryn> Necessary killing (military for defense reason) vs. selfish killing.
20100430 02:34:02< Aethaeryn> Still killing, but the latter is *worse*.
20100430 02:34:09< Aethaeryn> Note that ideally, pacifism would be the best.
20100430 02:34:15< Gambit> Militaryl defensive killing is selfish.
20100430 02:34:16< Aethaeryn> It's just sometimes infeasible.
20100430 02:34:25< Gambit> Us stupid Americans want to be safe ;)
20100430 02:34:39< Aethaeryn> It's actually very selfless to fight for someone else (such as a country).
20100430 02:34:50< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, okay, let me put it this way - you chase after A when there is a quite numerous but not too numerous group thinking that A is good, and A is not very obviously morally wrong, and A is not the choice of the masses
20100430 02:34:51< Aethaeryn> You're putting your life on the line not for your own self-gain.
20100430 02:35:37< Blarumyrran> Just to feel superior over the masses, and to feel yourself a part of the elect enlightened few
20100430 02:35:39< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: I chase after ways to distinguish myself from masses, I suppose. If that's a different way of phrasing it.
20100430 02:35:43< Aethaeryn> Not just to feel superior, though.
20100430 02:35:50< Blarumyrran> Mainly, at least
20100430 02:35:55< Aethaeryn> Maybe more of the later.
20100430 02:35:57< Gambit> To also SMELL and TASTE superior.
20100430 02:36:04< Aethaeryn> Oh, I do taste superior.
20100430 02:36:07< Aethaeryn> But only cannibals would know.
20100430 02:36:10< Gambit> XD
20100430 02:36:14< Gambit> Full circle ftw!
20100430 02:36:41< Gambit> And 90% of taste is smell so...
20100430 02:36:57< Aethaeryn> that's probably why I don't like food.
20100430 02:37:05< Aethaeryn> my nose is always stuffed from something :P
20100430 02:37:31< Gambit> How do you look and sound though? :P
20100430 02:37:41< Blarumyrran> superior
20100430 02:37:52< Aethaeryn> Sexy. But that's relative. Only the ladies find me sexy.
20100430 02:38:10< Aethaeryn> Actually, I wouldn't know.
20100430 02:38:22< Aethaeryn> Despite my joking now, I'm not a narcissist.
20100430 02:38:41< Blarumyrran> You are
20100430 02:38:42< Aethaeryn> And I can't be a fair judge of my looks because it is too mood-dependent.
20100430 02:38:46< Gambit> Is it narcissistic to say you are absolutely not a narcissist?
20100430 02:38:48< Blarumyrran> since you talk about what you _are_ so often
20100430 02:38:55< Blarumyrran> and what you are not
20100430 02:39:01< Aethaeryn> Well, it is better to define yourself by what you are than by what you are not.
20100430 02:39:15< Blarumyrran> Well
20100430 02:39:18< Aethaeryn> I probably talk about myself so often because I'm an introvert.
20100430 02:39:23< Blarumyrran> ...
20100430 02:39:23< Aethaeryn> I don't have social needless-complications to talk about.
20100430 02:39:34< Blarumyrran> Well
20100430 02:39:38< Aethaeryn> I basically do Wesnoth and my school's LUG and my classes.
20100430 02:39:43< Aethaeryn> And sometimes study groups for my classes.
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20100430 02:39:50< Blarumyrran> What's LUG?
20100430 02:39:54< Aethaeryn> Those are probably the only social non-family things I do.
20100430 02:40:00< Aethaeryn> Linux user group.
20100430 02:40:10< Aethaeryn> I just got elected secretary. My position was the only contested one in the election. \o/
20100430 02:40:14< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, I don't see how that is relevant
20100430 02:40:24< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Because we're discussing Aethaeryn.
20100430 02:40:28< Blarumyrran> Constantly publicly trying to define what you are and what you are not is still silly
20100430 02:40:46< Aethaeryn> Maybe I didn't get enough development in my teen years, to use Ericson's model
20100430 02:40:55< Aethaeryn> And maybe I still am forming my identity, even though he draws the line at 18 I think :P
20100430 02:41:13< Aethaeryn> In which case, it is pretty important to me to make sure I know what I am and what I am not.
20100430 02:41:46< Gambit> You should make a wikipedia page about you.
20100430 02:41:53< Aethaeryn> Ah, but I can't make it about me.
20100430 02:41:58< Blarumyrran> I could ;)
20100430 02:41:59< Gambit> You can't?
20100430 02:42:03< Aethaeryn> Nope.
20100430 02:42:11< Gambit> Damn I wanted to make one for me some day.
20100430 02:42:12< Aethaeryn> Jimmy Wales (the founder) had a mini-scandal for editing his own page once.
20100430 02:42:13< Aethaeryn> Against policy.
20100430 02:42:19< Gambit> No autobiographical work?
20100430 02:42:23< Gambit> aww :(
20100430 02:42:29< Aethaeryn> Well, you could have someone else cite your autobiography.
20100430 02:42:30< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 02:42:42< Aethaeryn> As long as the original research is a citation to another page. :P
20100430 02:42:49< Aethaeryn> There's the flaw in the system.
20100430 02:43:27< Gambit> Heh maybe I'll do something important some day.
20100430 02:43:54< Aethaeryn> Only if you resist the draw to take the easy way in life and act like the masses.
20100430 02:44:06< Blarumyrran> ... here we go again
20100430 02:44:20< Aethaeryn> Yeah.
20100430 02:45:18< Gambit> How do the masses act anyway? :P
20100430 02:45:34< Gambit> I've been in utter seclusion for the past 6 years.
20100430 02:45:54< Aethaeryn> In such ways so that they prefer to put current pleasures ahead of future potential gain.
20100430 02:46:10< Gambit> Oh good.
20100430 02:46:15< Aethaeryn> In other words, they'd rather party than study, even if by studying you'll get better employment in the future and thus be able to throw some really kick-ass parties with that better job.
20100430 02:46:31< Aethaeryn> *with the income from that better job
20100430 02:46:34< Aethaeryn> unless the job is party-planner :P
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20100430 02:46:49< Gambit> Cause there's no current pleasure in early college and refusing when your school offers to let you graduate early because you've had enough HS credits for a year now. 8)
20100430 02:46:59< Gambit> My turn to be a narcissist ;)
20100430 02:47:03< Gambit> lol jk I'm done.
20100430 02:47:14 * Gambit goes to tutor now (ha! wasn't done)
20100430 02:47:18< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 02:47:39< Aethaeryn> A little bit of arrogance is healthy if it keeps you motivated. :P
20100430 02:47:59-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 02:48:01< Aethaeryn> Just use moderation... like the alcohol commercials tell me.
20100430 02:48:19< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Your turn!
20100430 02:48:37< Gambit> Oh that's right you won't even tell us your first name... not even for munnies :o
20100430 02:48:41< Gambit> :(
20100430 02:48:51< Blarumyrran> :( what would you do with it anyway
20100430 02:49:00< Aethaeryn> He's probably George Bush speaking through a proxy in eastern Europe.
20100430 02:49:06-!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 02:49:10< Aethaeryn> Since only George Bush would want to hide his name.
20100430 02:49:15< Gambit> I would custom fit all future conversations to your exact needs :o
20100430 02:49:17< Blarumyrran> Yep
20100430 02:49:33-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 02:49:42< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran probably doesn't even have a Facebook.
20100430 02:49:44< Gambit> Aethaeryn: about moderation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLUoZpT2j_M
20100430 02:49:50 * Gambit doesn't have a facebook :s
20100430 02:49:52< Aethaeryn> How can they collect data on you if you don't have a Facebook and you don't have a GMail?
20100430 02:50:00< Aethaeryn> *How can They
20100430 02:50:08< Blarumyrran> I have both!
20100430 02:50:10< King_Elendil> how much money would you pay me to find out my fist name?
20100430 02:50:19< Aethaeryn> King_Elendil: We know your name is "King"
20100430 02:50:20< Gambit> King_Elendil: None.
20100430 02:50:22< Aethaeryn> nice try.
20100430 02:50:48< King_Elendil> dang it :p
20100430 02:51:08< Gambit> Aethaeryn: You'll like the video. :)
20100430 02:51:17< Aethaeryn> I'm listening ot music right now
20100430 02:51:17< Gambit> King_Elendil: Your first name starts with a B.
20100430 02:51:19< Gambit> :o
20100430 02:51:21< Aethaeryn> so I can't load it
20100430 02:51:26< King_Elendil> nope
20100430 02:51:30< Aethaeryn> King_Elendil: M
20100430 02:51:36< Issyl> derp
20100430 02:51:52< King_Elendil> yep
20100430 02:52:12< Aethaeryn> Gambit: want to guess the band?
20100430 02:52:13< Issyl> oh lord, a gambit and a blaru and an elendil and an aetheraewrkjaeyn.
20100430 02:52:25< Gambit> Aethaeryn: the who?
20100430 02:52:28< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:52:35< Aethaeryn> right genre though
20100430 02:52:44< Gambit> Lynyrd Skynyrd?
20100430 02:52:45< Issyl> Queeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen?
20100430 02:52:47< Issyl> wat
20100430 02:53:01< Gambit> Issyl: omg you know queen but not lynyrd skynyrd?
20100430 02:53:01< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Lynyrd Skynyrd is close... I have some of their albums... right timeframe of popularity.
20100430 02:53:04< Gambit> For shame!
20100430 02:53:11< Issyl> Lynyrd Skynyrd is not the same genre as The Who.
20100430 02:53:17< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Neil Young?
20100430 02:53:17< Aethaeryn> Classic Rock :P
20100430 02:53:20< Gambit> Issyl: Yes they are!
20100430 02:53:24< Gambit> Classic Rock
20100430 02:53:26< Gambit> Yeah.
20100430 02:53:29< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 02:53:50< Gambit> hold on
20100430 02:53:55< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 02:53:59< Gambit> Steve Miller Band?
20100430 02:54:03< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 02:54:09< Gambit> The Stones?
20100430 02:54:11< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 02:54:13< Gambit> Styx?
20100430 02:54:16< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 02:54:22< Gambit> Beatles?
20100430 02:54:23< King_Elendil> Gambit: no
20100430 02:54:25< Aethaeryn> Some Styx songs are good though
20100430 02:54:27< Gambit> Tom Petty?
20100430 02:54:30< Aethaeryn> no no
20100430 02:54:32< King_Elendil> :p
20100430 02:54:42< Gambit> The Doors?
20100430 02:54:50< Gambit> wait that's too early
20100430 02:55:04< Aethaeryn> no.
20100430 02:55:08< Gambit> Foreigner?
20100430 02:55:10< Aethaeryn> I'll give you a year
20100430 02:55:14< Aethaeryn> of their biggest two albums
20100430 02:55:29< Gambit> Well note I wasn't alive then so I'm not so good with dates.
20100430 02:55:38< Aethaeryn> 1976-1977
20100430 02:55:56< Gambit> 70's rock hmmm
20100430 02:56:06< Gambit> Bad Company?
20100430 02:56:14< Aethaeryn> their two biggest albums were 5x platinum and 4x platinum
20100430 02:56:25< Aethaeryn> if that helps at all, it won't :P
20100430 02:56:30< Gambit> Rush?
20100430 02:56:34< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:56:36< Gambit> oh duh Led Zepplin?
20100430 02:56:40< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:56:42< Gambit> what?!
20100430 02:56:45< Gambit> hmmm
20100430 02:56:49< Aethaeryn> It's a popular band.
20100430 02:56:55< Aethaeryn> There's even a song of theirs in a commercial recently.
20100430 02:56:59< Gambit> Hey that's not an insult is it?
20100430 02:57:02< Gambit> Pink Floyd?
20100430 02:57:04< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:57:06< Aethaeryn> really close though
20100430 02:57:08< Aethaeryn> same subgenre
20100430 02:57:10< Aethaeryn> progressive rock
20100430 02:57:21< Gambit> Nirvanna?
20100430 02:57:25< Gambit> *one n?
20100430 02:57:25< Aethaeryn> noooooo
20100430 02:57:29< Aethaeryn> that's like 20 years later isn't it?
20100430 02:57:36 * Gambit doesn't know :'(
20100430 02:57:40< Gambit> but will keep guessing :@
20100430 02:57:41< Aethaeryn> and aren't Nirvana grunge?
20100430 02:57:59< Aethaeryn> I'd give you more obvious hints... but you'd google it and end it with that hint
20100430 02:58:00< Gambit> Jethro Tull?
20100430 02:58:02< Aethaeryn> too bad we aren't in person
20100430 02:58:03< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:58:29< Gambit> Blue Oyster Cult?
20100430 02:58:39< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 02:58:52< Gambit> Hmmm 70s. Sounds like Floyd.
20100430 02:58:59< Aethaeryn> I didn't say sounds like
20100430 02:59:02< Aethaeryn> I said same subgenre
20100430 02:59:18< Aethaeryn> I don't have any Floyd albums. My uncool roommate liked them which instantly makes them uncool to me.
20100430 02:59:44< Gambit> Emerson Lake and Palmer?
20100430 02:59:48< Aethaeryn> they also have studio albums from 1974-2000
20100430 02:59:53< Blarumyrran> Then your roommate was part of the... *shudder* masses
20100430 02:59:55< Aethaeryn> so their sound probably changed quite a bit over that time
20100430 02:59:58< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: no, he wasn't
20100430 02:59:59< Gambit> Supertramp?
20100430 03:00:05< Gambit> Recent commercial.
20100430 03:00:07< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: if he had one thing, it was no shame for not fitting in
20100430 03:00:08< Aethaeryn> Gambit: no
20100430 03:00:21< Gambit> Kansas?
20100430 03:00:22< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: He was very open about his flaws... too open
20100430 03:00:24< Aethaeryn> Gambit: YES
20100430 03:00:27< Aethaeryn> That took forever.
20100430 03:00:32< Gambit> Yeah.
20100430 03:00:34< Aethaeryn> was that more than 20 guesses?
20100430 03:00:39< Aethaeryn> Was going to give you another hint: violin
20100430 03:00:42< Aethaeryn> that might've helped
20100430 03:00:47< Gambit> It wouldn't have.
20100430 03:00:51< Gambit> I only have one of their songs.
20100430 03:01:03< Blarumyrran> I've never heard of Kansas
20100430 03:01:08< Aethaeryn> I hate how people only download one or two songs from a band.
20100430 03:01:14< Aethaeryn> I often like to listen to an entire album in one sitting.
20100430 03:01:16< Gambit> Aethaeryn: :$
20100430 03:01:23< Aethaeryn> A good album has all songs at least decent.
20100430 03:01:31 * Gambit could steal his parents CD I guess.
20100430 03:01:32< Aethaeryn> Of course, most of today's albums are rubbish. :P
20100430 03:01:36< Gambit> *CD's
20100430 03:01:38-!- fyretux [~fyretux@97-117-103-158.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:01:47-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20100430 03:01:49< Aethaeryn> If you're going to get any kansas CDs
20100430 03:01:57< Aethaeryn> Leftoverture and Point of Know Return are their most popular.
20100430 03:02:04< Aethaeryn> The ones that almost all their songs are from.
20100430 03:02:18< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Carry on my wayward son.
20100430 03:02:23< Aethaeryn> Though, with your taste, you *might* like the style from their debut album, Kansas, better.
20100430 03:02:30< Aethaeryn> I can't judge :P
20100430 03:02:43< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Your turn ;)
20100430 03:02:50< fyretux> how do i make a campaign?
20100430 03:03:06< Blarumyrran> Gambit, carry on with what?
20100430 03:03:09< Aethaeryn> Oh, and I like Kansas because they often have really long instrumentals.
20100430 03:03:11< Gambit> fyretux: Spit, sweat, blood, tears, and a lot of duct tape.
20100430 03:03:12< Aethaeryn> And I like that in a band.
20100430 03:03:16< Blarumyrran> or is that a song name
20100430 03:03:30< Gambit> fyretux: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create
20100430 03:03:30< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leftoverture
20100430 03:03:32< Aethaeryn> first song in that
20100430 03:03:39< fyretux> Gambit: ok, thanks
20100430 03:04:53< Aethaeryn> I also like Kansas because they often have very abstract lyrics.
20100430 03:05:08< Gambit> Aethaeryn: It's alternative rock
20100430 03:05:18< Gambit> Start guessing :P
20100430 03:05:37< Gambit> From the 90's.
20100430 03:06:04 * Gambit wonders if there is a classic rock channel
20100430 03:06:16< Gambit> There is now :)
20100430 03:06:20< Gambit> #classic-rock 8)
20100430 03:06:37< Blarumyrran> Nice song, I don't really like highpitched male voice like that though
20100430 03:06:47< Aethaeryn> Gambit: are you still listening to the offspring?
20100430 03:06:52< Gambit> No.
20100430 03:07:12< Gambit> they changed it so now I'm playing some stuff by my mom's favorite band.
20100430 03:07:45< Gambit> Also since you "would have" given me the violin hint, I will give you "kazoo" :)
20100430 03:07:56< Aethaeryn> damn it
20100430 03:07:59< Gambit> lol
20100430 03:08:03< Aethaeryn> is it a band you named before?
20100430 03:08:06< Gambit> No.
20100430 03:08:08< Aethaeryn> damn it.
20100430 03:08:13< Aethaeryn> I was going to run through a few of them
20100430 03:08:30< Gambit> I love songs with unexpected instruments.
20100430 03:08:44< Gambit> Like Neil Young and his harmonica.
20100430 03:09:02< Aethaeryn> Though, with your taste, you *might* like the style from their debut album, Kansas, better.
20100430 03:09:05< Aethaeryn> bah
20100430 03:09:08< Aethaeryn> damn it
20100430 03:09:09< Aethaeryn> the scroll bar went up
20100430 03:09:15< Aethaeryn> on my laptop touchpad
20100430 03:09:16< Gambit> The list of songs with kazoos can't be that big.
20100430 03:09:17< Aethaeryn> so I posted a previous line
20100430 03:09:20< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazoo
20100430 03:09:28< Aethaeryn> jimi hendrix
20100430 03:09:32< Gambit> Nope.
20100430 03:09:37< Gambit> Did he use one?
20100430 03:09:38< Gambit> Wow.
20100430 03:09:54< Gambit> That's cool.
20100430 03:10:13< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100430 03:10:26< Aethaeryn> bah.
20100430 03:10:29< Aethaeryn> Wikipedia is a dead-end?
20100430 03:10:53< Gambit> Actually I guess that's not fair of me. They only used a kazoo in one song and it's not in the studio cut.
20100430 03:11:03< Gambit> It still sounds like a kazoo though.
20100430 03:11:40 * Gambit wonders how safe it is to give you the hint "shares their name with a church"
20100430 03:12:40< Gambit> It's a decently obscure band. :P
20100430 03:12:58< Issyl> hurm
20100430 03:13:04< Issyl> someone give me something to sprite
20100430 03:13:06-!- unimatrix0_ [~unimatrix@adsl-074-236-057-188.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:13:15< Gambit> bbl. have a student
20100430 03:13:55< Aethaeryn> bah, decently obscure?
20100430 03:14:01< Aethaeryn> at least my band was popular enough for you to have their song :P
20100430 03:14:10< Aethaeryn> *their song that was in Guitar Hero and thus their most popular song
20100430 03:15:31< Gambit> Well I guess "90s alternative rock bands from Canada" will be enough
20100430 03:15:35< Gambit> I guess this one was too hard
20100430 03:15:39-!- unimatrix0 [~unimatrix@adsl-074-236-057-188.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100430 03:15:39-!- unimatrix0_ is now known as unimatrix0
20100430 03:17:30< Gambit> There's a list on wikipedia :)
20100430 03:17:37< Gambit> Only one of them sounds like the name of a church.
20100430 03:17:41-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:18:56< Gambit> And no it's not Barenaked Ladies.
20100430 03:19:46-!- Unnheulu [~52050b21@gateway/web/freenode/x-ovnwmrotziuxcsko] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:19:57< wajimba> Issyl: you can always check out Ancestral's addon: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26388
20100430 03:20:15-!- Fother [~Fother_J@pool-96-254-221-178.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:22:03< Aethaeryn> I probably won't get it
20100430 03:22:17< Aethaeryn> I'm not big on music, actually.
20100430 03:22:20-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100430 03:22:31< Aethaeryn> don't know enough to get the non-famous ones :P
20100430 03:22:38< Aethaeryn> though there is a chance I'll reocognize the name if you say it :P
20100430 03:23:11 * Unnheulu knows not the name of any of wesnoths music
20100430 03:23:29< Issyl> what about it, wajimba?
20100430 03:23:40< Issyl> it seems like he's just rearranging the default era
20100430 03:23:58< wajimba> Issyl: you said you wanted something to sprite? As in draw new units?
20100430 03:24:22< wajimba> There's tons of new units being created
20100430 03:24:52< wajimba> basically taking the current lvl 3's and making them beefier :D
20100430 03:25:20< wajimba> like he's doing to their stats
20100430 03:25:34< wajimba> I think it's a cool idea for RPG's and such
20100430 03:26:12< Issyl> ?
20100430 03:26:14< Issyl> Ooooh
20100430 03:26:15< Issyl> i see now
20100430 03:26:24< Issyl> you would suggest I create L4 and L5 units for this
20100430 03:26:27< Gambit> Aethaeryn: You give up?
20100430 03:26:27< Issyl> based on the existing units
20100430 03:26:28< Issyl> huh
20100430 03:27:19< wajimba> mmhmm
20100430 03:27:20< Aethaeryn> Gambit: never tried
20100430 03:27:39< Aethaeryn> I couldn't do what you did and throw 25 names out there... I would've expected you to have given up after like 3
20100430 03:27:39< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Do you want me to tell you the answer?
20100430 03:30:50< wajimba> Issyl: are you an rpg fan?
20100430 03:31:05< Issyl> not particularly, no. I prefer strategy
20100430 03:31:27< wajimba> yeah, my favorite is a new land
20100430 03:31:29< Unnheulu> You ever played stronghold ii?
20100430 03:32:08< Unnheulu> That's strategy....except for those who try killing you asap
20100430 03:32:10< Issyl> eeeeh, stronghold 2 is alright
20100430 03:32:16< Issyl> a 6/10
20100430 03:32:23< Issyl> Stronghold Crusader was better.
20100430 03:32:38< Blarumyrran> It looked so ugly compared to Stronghold that I only briefly tried it
20100430 03:32:45< Unnheulu> Crusader is just mad
20100430 03:32:56< Blarumyrran> (it = 2)
20100430 03:33:28< Unnheulu> I havnt played #1 or legends enough to comment :/
20100430 03:34:31 * Unnheulu is waiting for someone to code an foss stronghold
20100430 03:39:48-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100430 03:42:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:43:01< Unnheulu> I must say
20100430 03:43:19< Unnheulu> After an entire campaign Pwning orcs
20100430 03:43:28< Unnheulu> Then they must be underpowered
20100430 03:43:46< Unnheulu> Must be looked into asap, major rebalancing needed
20100430 03:44:32-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20100430 03:44:40< Unnheulu> Awe
20100430 03:44:45< Unnheulu> Aww*
20100430 03:44:53< Unnheulu> I hoped to annoy him^^
20100430 03:45:11-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 03:45:47< Unnheulu> King_Elendil: http://www.jonespenarth.me.uk/~ieuan/Amazolia-9.png
20100430 03:47:17< Issyl> You shouldn't troll Noy ;/
20100430 03:47:23< Issyl> he'll give you 45-minute lectures, you know
20100430 03:47:31< Issyl> and he'll tie you to a damn chair
20100430 03:47:33< Unnheulu> Hehe
20100430 03:47:35< Issyl> and tape your eyes open
20100430 03:48:16< Unnheulu> Sounds fun
20100430 03:49:11< Aethaeryn> hey noy has two masters degrees
20100430 03:49:21< Aethaeryn> I bet one is in military tactics or something
20100430 03:49:21-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Client Quit]
20100430 03:49:22< Unnheulu> Really?
20100430 03:49:49< Blarumyrran> I bet one is in oriental history
20100430 03:50:08< Unnheulu> Is the other in murder?
20100430 03:50:09< Blarumyrran> (the islamic faction and all)
20100430 03:50:12< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Our Lady Peace
20100430 03:51:13< Aethaeryn> k, would've never guessed.
20100430 03:51:27< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: Islamic != oriental.
20100430 03:51:51< Aethaeryn> For the last 20-30 years, academia has shunned the word "oriental" because it's too broad
20100430 03:51:58< Aethaeryn> basically "east of europe"
20100430 03:52:24-!- Deformative [~joe@c-76-112-68-135.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100430 03:52:34< Unnheulu> It's faster than saying "east of Europe"
20100430 03:53:42< Aethaeryn> eh
20100430 03:53:43< Issyl> haha
20100430 03:53:49< Aethaeryn> still, my point is they wouldn't give an oriental history degree
20100430 03:53:50< Blarumyrran> There's almost nothing east of urals though
20100430 03:54:02< Aethaeryn> no one's that politically incorrect in academia these days
20100430 03:54:02< Issyl> THE EARTH IS BARE.
20100430 03:54:04< Blarumyrran> So using it in the sense, east of greece makes more sense
20100430 03:54:05< Issyl> JAPAN IS A MYTH.
20100430 03:54:10< Issyl> NOBODY ACTUALLY LIVES THERE.
20100430 03:54:19< Issyl> all the photos are just elaborate setups
20100430 03:54:22< Aethaeryn> Problem is that Greece was part of the ottoman empire
20100430 03:54:26< Issyl> with people with extensive makeup
20100430 03:54:35< Aethaeryn> so in the original sense, it would've applied as "oriental" but not Russia, even though it was more east
20100430 03:54:49< Blarumyrran> Issyl, almost nobody lives in the thousands of km in siberia, yes
20100430 03:54:55< Issyl> :3
20100430 03:54:57< Issyl> I was kidding
20100430 03:54:59< Issyl> joke, you see.
20100430 03:55:06< Aethaeryn> People the Soviets don't like live in those thousands of km
20100430 03:55:06< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 03:55:46< Blarumyrran> they didn't when people starting using "oriental" so much :P
20100430 03:55:54< Unnheulu> You guys know too much
20100430 03:57:32< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what's the problem about ottomans
20100430 03:57:40-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100430 03:58:06< Blarumyrran> Greece still applies as a name for the lands of the greeks, like manchuria for manchus
20100430 03:59:30< Unnheulu> I misread that as geeks
20100430 03:59:35< Aethaeryn> and the Orientals = all of Asia = aka. the most populous continent?
20100430 03:59:41< Aethaeryn> that's a very specific designation :P
20100430 03:59:48< Aethaeryn> I don't think you can get a masters so broad
20100430 03:59:55< Blarumyrran> What masters
20100430 04:00:02< Aethaeryn> 21:50:12 < Blarumyrran> I bet one is in oriental history
20100430 04:00:09< Aethaeryn> Though now I'll have to ask what noy has his two masters in :P
20100430 04:00:13< Aethaeryn> I bet some kind of public policy
20100430 04:00:16< Aethaeryn> maybe sociology
20100430 04:00:23< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, besides
20100430 04:00:31< Unnheulu> I wanna masters in harry potter
20100430 04:00:42< Blarumyrran> if he did have a masters in oriental history, islamic clutures would be included in it
20100430 04:00:47< Blarumyrran> So I'm not sure of your point here
20100430 04:02:53< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, I can get a master's degree called "mathematics"
20100430 04:03:12< Blarumyrran> if you say "oriental history" is broader than that, you're silly
20100430 04:03:26< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 04:03:32< Aethaeryn> it would be "Asian history" probably though
20100430 04:03:40< Aethaeryn> my point is the term "oriental" is dated and kinda viewed as racist.
20100430 04:03:45< Aethaeryn> at least in the US, we wouldn't use it
20100430 04:03:54< Aethaeryn> maybe in Europe they don't have the kind of racial sensitivities as the US
20100430 04:04:04< Aethaeryn> there are certain terms universities don't use.
20100430 04:04:17< Unnheulu> So Lego is racist?
20100430 04:04:19< Aethaeryn> because you'd be talking about the continent of Asia. So "Asian history"
20100430 04:04:56< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, is mentioning people by any name other than one mostly relating to geographic location, racist
20100430 04:04:57< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Lego means I read in Latin, iirc.
20100430 04:05:04< Unnheulu> Which is oriental?
20100430 04:05:19< Aethaeryn> Blarumyrran: I think it's racist because oriental is relative.
20100430 04:05:23< Aethaeryn> "orient" means east
20100430 04:05:26< Aethaeryn> as in "east of Europe"
20100430 04:05:38< Aethaeryn> as in "these are the very diverse people lumped together just because they're east of Europe"
20100430 04:05:38< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, "black people" is relative too
20100430 04:05:39< Unnheulu> Lego has oriental sets
20100430 04:05:45< Unnheulu> Or did a few years ago
20100430 04:05:46< Blarumyrran> I might consider spanyards black people
20100430 04:05:48< Aethaeryn> They wouldn't say "black people" in academia either.
20100430 04:05:57< Blarumyrran> Oh, I didn't know that
20100430 04:06:00< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what do you call them then
20100430 04:06:09< Aethaeryn> African-Americans if they're in the US
20100430 04:06:14< Aethaeryn> I assume just Africans if they're not.
20100430 04:06:26< Aethaeryn> I actually heard the term "Afro-British" on the radio the other day
20100430 04:06:28< Unnheulu> But we're known as westerners which isn't racist?
20100430 04:06:52< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: oh, you can say "white" I suppose.
20100430 04:06:55< Aethaeryn> But mostly "Euro-American"
20100430 04:07:10< Aethaeryn> there are so many implicit-but-unwritten rules
20100430 04:07:20< Unnheulu> Seriously people say that?
20100430 04:07:25< Aethaeryn> as to what you can say and not... sociology, history, political science...
20100430 04:07:28< Aethaeryn> a lot of the classes I've taken
20100430 04:07:38< Blarumyrran> My god
20100430 04:07:40< Aethaeryn> then again, I live in a very liberal state.
20100430 04:07:45< Blarumyrran> And you say you're big on liberty up there.
20100430 04:07:49< Aethaeryn> Maryland is basically the California of the east :P
20100430 04:07:54< Aethaeryn> except not quite as big :P
20100430 04:07:57< Gambit> Ha!
20100430 04:08:01< Unnheulu> What happened to Anglo-welsh and stuff?
20100430 04:08:09< Aethaeryn> oh what really pisses me off
20100430 04:08:19< Aethaeryn> is that white America apparently has "Anglo" culture
20100430 04:08:25-!- un214 [~quassel@adsl-75-45-4-19.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 04:08:33< Aethaeryn> I'm 25% Italian, 25% Lithuanian, 50% Slovak, 0% anything-near-Britain
20100430 04:08:44< Blarumyrran> You speak english
20100430 04:08:53< Aethaeryn> and I've lived overseas enough to know that America isn't very English in culture other than in language
20100430 04:08:56< Aethaeryn> not even close in religion
20100430 04:08:57< un214> he speaks wesnothian, the narrator translates
20100430 04:09:01-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100430 04:09:06< Aethaeryn> our most populous American religion is Baptist
20100430 04:09:14< Aethaeryn> or protestant denomination at least
20100430 04:09:23< Unnheulu> I don't even know what British culture is
20100430 04:09:26< Aethaeryn> aka. the-group-everyone-killed-in-Europe
20100430 04:09:27< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 04:09:39< Unnheulu> Is it drinking loads tea?
20100430 04:09:55< Blarumyrran> with biscuits
20100430 04:10:04< Blarumyrran> and milk!
20100430 04:10:11< Blarumyrran> That is, like, the silliest thing I've heard
20100430 04:10:12< Aethaeryn> it's watching Dr. Who on BBC.
20100430 04:10:13< Blarumyrran> tea with milk
20100430 04:10:29< Aethaeryn> And believing in a monarch.
20100430 04:10:31< Blarumyrran> I've heard some brits drink it like that
20100430 04:10:38< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, monarchy is cool
20100430 04:10:40< Aethaeryn> hah, half of countries with monarchs killed them or deposed of them peacefully by now
20100430 04:10:44< Unnheulu> With milk?
20100430 04:10:54< Aethaeryn> Though I'm really sad the emperor of Ethiopia is gone.
20100430 04:10:58< Aethaeryn> he was an awesome guy.
20100430 04:11:04< un214> and the British found how to get mostly a democracy without doing either
20100430 04:11:12< Unnheulu> Aeth, half of uk wants independence
20100430 04:11:21< Aethaeryn> half of the US wants independence :P
20100430 04:11:25< Aethaeryn> Vermont + the South
20100430 04:11:35< Aethaeryn> Don't ask why Vermont. Or is it New Hampshire?
20100430 04:11:38< Aethaeryn> they're all crazy up there anyway.
20100430 04:11:39-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 04:11:47< Unnheulu> Aka we don't all agree with the monarch
20100430 04:12:04< Aethaeryn> America practically has a dynasty.
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20100430 04:12:16< Blarumyrran> rockenfellers?
20100430 04:12:24< Aethaeryn> Based on the pattern, the next president will be a Bush :P
20100430 04:12:39< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 04:12:39< Aethaeryn> and then a random Democrat and then another Bush :P
20100430 04:13:26< Unnheulu> Never a leader you didn't vote in?
20100430 04:13:50< Unnheulu> S/you/Americans/
20100430 04:16:10< Aethaeryn> In a democracy, you get the leader you deserve.
20100430 04:16:21< Aethaeryn> (again, collective "you")
20100430 04:16:33< Unnheulu> Unless the leader steps down
20100430 04:16:50< Unnheulu> Or gets kicked out by the unions
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20100430 04:18:11< Unnheulu> Eg, what happened with Blair
20100430 04:18:35< Aethaeryn> our leaders don't step down unless they do something really exciting
20100430 04:18:44< Aethaeryn> like spy on his electoral competition like Nixon did
20100430 04:19:18< Unnheulu> The unions said step down or we'll kick you out, not much choice, eh?
20100430 04:20:01< Unnheulu> What happened with Nixon?
20100430 04:20:18< Blarumyrran> pardoned
20100430 04:20:35< Unnheulu> What'd he do then :P
20100430 04:20:39< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: ah, the Labour Party...
20100430 04:20:42< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: watergate
20100430 04:21:00< Aethaeryn> it's in Forrest Gump, so you should know it :P
20100430 04:21:02< Unnheulu> Aeth, yup
20100430 04:21:30< Unnheulu> I dunno forest gump ^^
20100430 04:21:31< Aethaeryn> here in the US you can't not know about Watergate... it was the media's big victory of the century.
20100430 04:21:48< Aethaeryn> so they have to constantly reference it
20100430 04:21:56< Aethaeryn> they attach -gate to any scandal
20100430 04:22:07< Unnheulu> Ah
20100430 04:22:08< Aethaeryn> even the conservatives do that
20100430 04:22:11< Aethaeryn> "climategate"
20100430 04:22:24< Unnheulu> In America?
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20100430 04:22:35< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100430 04:22:35< Unnheulu> Or worldwide?
20100430 04:22:37< Aethaeryn> America
20100430 04:22:44< Aethaeryn> though maybe it is worldwide
20100430 04:22:44< Blarumyrran> RNGgate
20100430 04:22:50< Aethaeryn> America tends to export media
20100430 04:22:54< Unnheulu> You have tories in America?
20100430 04:22:54< Aethaeryn> it's the one thing we still make in the US
20100430 04:22:57< Aethaeryn> oh
20100430 04:22:58< Aethaeryn> no
20100430 04:23:03< Aethaeryn> conservative = republican
20100430 04:23:13< Unnheulu> Ah kay
20100430 04:23:15< Aethaeryn> though there's a conservative party in new york
20100430 04:23:23< Aethaeryn> they narrowly lost a house election by like 3%
20100430 04:23:50< Aethaeryn> apparently, in New York, if the Conservative Party doesn't endorse a Republican (aka. doesn't like you) they'll run someone against you and the Democrat will win :P
20100430 04:24:02< Aethaeryn> I never knew that since most states don't like 3rd parties.
20100430 04:24:11< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 04:24:36< Aethaeryn> but basically Conservative = Republican and Liberal = Democrat.
20100430 04:24:40< Aethaeryn> Ever since the '80s.
20100430 04:24:50< Unnheulu> In one county labour lost out to cornish nationalists in the Europe election =]
20100430 04:24:51< Aethaeryn> Probably before, but the '80s is the most apparent polarization
20100430 04:25:05< Aethaeryn> First Reagan in the 80s then the Republicans taking the House in the 90s
20100430 04:25:11< Aethaeryn> really solidified their position as the conservatives
20100430 04:25:14< Unnheulu> And liberal democrat = democrat?
20100430 04:25:27< Aethaeryn> We have Republicans and Democrats
20100430 04:25:38< Aethaeryn> Republicans are the pro-defense, pro-values, pro-business party
20100430 04:25:44< Aethaeryn> Democrats are the social reform pro-union party
20100430 04:26:02< Unnheulu> That's our labour party
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20100430 04:26:47< Aethaeryn> Any other party (or someone running as Independent) is usually just a one-election disrupter who sometimes wins (usually not nationally though, we have about 2 independents in all of congress)
20100430 04:27:04< Unnheulu> Wow
20100430 04:27:06< Aethaeryn> and we tend to lump all parties as "independent" even if they do make a party since it basically depends on the character of one guy
20100430 04:27:10< Aethaeryn> like Nader.
20100430 04:27:26< Unnheulu> I think we havelike 40 or something not from the big three
20100430 04:27:35< Aethaeryn> Oh, we have a few
20100430 04:27:38< Aethaeryn> libertarian and green come to mind
20100430 04:27:48< Aethaeryn> but state laws are *really* hard on third parties in most states
20100430 04:27:52< Aethaeryn> ever since the early 1900s
20100430 04:28:06< Unnheulu> How comes?
20100430 04:28:10< Aethaeryn> New York is the one noticeable exception that comes to mind, where there's actually a conservative party of new york
20100430 04:28:16< Aethaeryn> Because you write the laws.
20100430 04:28:18< Aethaeryn> If you're a party.
20100430 04:28:47< Unnheulu> The sennedd has like 4 main parties in it
20100430 04:28:52< Aethaeryn> And if on the state level there's three parties, and the Democrats join with the Foo party, then the Republicans when in power will make it hard on the Foo party
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20100430 04:29:01< Unnheulu> [welsh authority]
20100430 04:29:24< Aethaeryn> since you set the national voting regulations in a state by the state legislature
20100430 04:29:32< Aethaeryn> this lead to some really racist moves in the South before the '60s
20100430 04:29:50< Aethaeryn> in other words, you can't vote for national office uniformly, it's done by each state.
20100430 04:29:54< Unnheulu> Racist as antiblack?
20100430 04:29:56< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100430 04:30:04< Aethaeryn> and the state basically lost all power since the 1860s civil war
20100430 04:30:12< Aethaeryn> but there's a lot of things that the state can do that's pretty ridiculous
20100430 04:30:21< Aethaeryn> that someone who's been in any other country would be surprised
20100430 04:30:26< Aethaeryn> that they still have that power
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20100430 04:30:38< Aethaeryn> It's basically been usurped though on funding grounds.
20100430 04:30:52< Unnheulu> Any welsh laws need to go through the English government and the queen
20100430 04:30:54< Aethaeryn> For instance "If you don't set your drinking age at 21 years, we'll stop giving you highway funds."
20100430 04:31:21< Aethaeryn> So since the '70s or '80s the drinking age has been at 21 everywhere, since highway funds are pretty big.
20100430 04:31:39< Aethaeryn> You don't want to be the governor who lets roads fall into disrepair to make a stand.
20100430 04:31:41< Unnheulu> Ivanovic, 4:30 am?
20100430 04:32:13< Unnheulu> Bah, noone cares about roads in my county
20100430 04:32:22< Aethaeryn> Maryland cares a lot about roads.
20100430 04:32:23< Unnheulu> They're fine in cardiff
20100430 04:32:29< Aethaeryn> Probably other states don't.
20100430 04:32:39< Unnheulu> But one county away...
20100430 04:32:50< Aethaeryn> There's only one bad patch I can think of in my area (Baltimore County)...
20100430 04:33:04< Aethaeryn> And it's for a very short amount of time where it says "end of county paving" in a sign and then gets really bumpy.
20100430 04:33:19< Aethaeryn> Really short until the otherwise-paved road dead ends into a paved road
20100430 04:33:38< Aethaeryn> I really don't know why they chose to ignore one patch.
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20100430 04:33:50< Aethaeryn> Maybe they're scared of the woods. :o
20100430 04:33:55< Unnheulu> Laziness?
20100430 04:34:10< Unnheulu> Teddybear picnic :/
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20100430 04:34:53< Aethaeryn> it's funny though
20100430 04:35:13< Aethaeryn> because it's really a tiny stretch from a very paved area to another paved area... and it dead ends at a traffic light at a paved road
20100430 04:35:23< Aethaeryn> and it's only part of a road, the rest is paved
20100430 04:35:42< Aethaeryn> come to think of it, it's before a bridge iirc... I hope the bridge is safe :o
20100430 04:36:15< Unnheulu> Rain recently destroyed a bridge in north england
20100430 04:36:39 * Unnheulu swallows comment involving serves them right :/
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20100430 04:38:01< Aethaeryn> your country is old and crowded
20100430 04:38:06< Aethaeryn> I mean, the *Romans* were there
20100430 04:38:13< Unnheulu> Bah crowded
20100430 04:38:33< Aethaeryn> In America, there's lots of open space
20100430 04:38:40< Aethaeryn> sure, it's mostly in useless areas and not on the choice coasts...
20100430 04:38:41< Unnheulu> More people are in London than Wales and scotland combined
20100430 04:38:51< Aethaeryn> heh
20100430 04:39:14< Aethaeryn> my Ancient Studies professor was describing why the Romans did Hadrian's Wall
20100430 04:39:24< Aethaeryn> I don't think he's a big fan of northern Scottland. :P
20100430 04:39:34< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 04:39:45< Blarumyrram> Because the scotsmen were like, really small and couldn't climb up it?
20100430 04:39:55< Unnheulu> I don't think whoever named Wales Waac a big fan of Wales
20100430 04:40:26< Unnheulu> Synerr, isn't it like 05:40?
20100430 04:41:20< Unnheulu> Waac? I meant was :/
20100430 04:42:22< Unnheulu> And you mean celts lived here before the romans? ;)
20100430 04:43:47< Unnheulu> You Americans have this thing about making all the streets perfectly straight and super long
20100430 04:44:09< Blarumyrram> yes
20100430 04:44:16< Unnheulu> I mean, what's the fun in that?
20100430 04:44:16< Blarumyrram> My sleep schedule is screwed up
20100430 04:44:27< Unnheulu> Jetlag?
20100430 04:48:28< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: there's basically a line in American cities... 
20100430 04:48:34< Aethaeryn> somewhere around Ohio I think.
20100430 04:48:41< Aethaeryn> west of it, they're all perfectly planned and gridded and logical
20100430 04:48:48< Aethaeryn> east of it, they're old school twisty
20100430 04:49:22< Aethaeryn> of course, suburbs are a mixed bunch since some are pretty logical and plain and some are purposely confusing to navigate.
20100430 04:49:28< Unnheulu> Old-school is better, otherwise all the cabbies would be out of job ;)
20100430 04:50:30 * Unnheulu still wants to know what a suburb is^^
20100430 04:50:59< Aethaeryn> oh
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20100430 04:51:06< Aethaeryn> some time ago Americans won a war
20100430 04:51:12< Aethaeryn> I hear that half of Europe won it too
20100430 04:51:18< Aethaeryn> but Americans weren't bombed the hell out by Nazis
20100430 04:51:21< Aethaeryn> so they were really rich
20100430 04:51:27< Aethaeryn> and wanted to leave crowded cities
20100430 04:51:35< Aethaeryn> so they put lots of big houses next to each other :P
20100430 04:51:42< Aethaeryn> just outside city limits :P
20100430 04:51:59< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 04:52:05< Unnheulu> So a town?
20100430 04:52:18< Aethaeryn> no, not a town
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20100430 04:52:29< Unnheulu> Village?
20100430 04:52:33< Aethaeryn> at least where I am it's almost like the de-town-ification of the county
20100430 04:52:38< Aethaeryn> in that it all runs together nwo
20100430 04:52:39< Aethaeryn> *now
20100430 04:52:57< Aethaeryn> so the area names (presumably once town names) are kinda odd because there's no real separation
20100430 04:53:09< Aethaeryn> it's all one giant sprawl of housing and shopping centers
20100430 04:53:29< Aethaeryn> but outside of cities since basically only really rich and really poor people live in cities in America
20100430 04:53:33< Aethaeryn> everyone else just commutes to work in them
20100430 04:53:43< Unnheulu> Ok
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20100430 04:54:53< Aethaeryn> it's also basically a way to go around the local taxes
20100430 04:55:08< Aethaeryn> since you basically build a city-outside-a-city for where middle class people live
20100430 04:55:27< Aethaeryn> If you looked on a satellite map and had to guess where the city ended, you'd be wrong
20100430 04:55:48< Aethaeryn> most cities (at least that I'm familiar with) are basically entirely encircled by suburbs.
20100430 04:56:12< Unnheulu> There's a river between my town and Cardiff
20100430 04:56:22< Unnheulu> A field between me and a village
20100430 04:56:34< Unnheulu> A road between me and two mini villages
20100430 04:56:37< Aethaeryn> there's no logical separation.
20100430 04:56:44< Unnheulu> We're very territorial^^
20100430 04:56:58< Aethaeryn> all the towns and small cities were presumably once separated by lots and lots of space
20100430 04:57:03< Aethaeryn> now it basically all runs together
20100430 04:57:20< Aethaeryn> I even live in a hyphenated area.
20100430 04:57:24< Aethaeryn> Lutherville-Timonium
20100430 04:57:27< Unnheulu> Space is a bit of a rareity here, too hilly
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20100430 04:58:42< Unnheulu> Glacier was sat right on top of Britain in the iceage
20100430 04:59:02< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#United_States
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20100430 04:59:53< Aethaeryn> Basically like a city, but for middle class people, and really spaced out. You basically have to drive to get anywhere.
20100430 05:00:11< Unnheulu> Cool
20100430 05:00:25< Aethaeryn> And outside of city limits for tax purposes
20100430 05:00:30< Unnheulu> I can literally walk from here to Cardiff
20100430 05:00:37< Unnheulu> Tax?
20100430 05:00:45< Aethaeryn> yes, we have three layers of taxes
20100430 05:00:59< Aethaeryn> local (county/city), state, and federal
20100430 05:01:12< Aethaeryn> so living outside of the city is rather beneficial.
20100430 05:01:47< Unnheulu> Weird
20100430 05:02:02< Aethaeryn> Americans like living above their means.
20100430 05:02:12< Unnheulu> Mmm
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20100430 05:02:22< Aethaeryn> I've been living back in the US too long
20100430 05:02:33< Aethaeryn> I assumed suburbs were normal. Forgot historical wealth and land spacing differences.
20100430 05:02:52< Aethaeryn> You're on a cramped little island that's very wet :P
20100430 05:03:18< Unnheulu> So no rivers or hills or anything seperate them?
20100430 05:03:25< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 05:03:42< Unnheulu> 200days a year it rains in Wales, on average
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20100430 05:10:09< Unnheulu> I think I should sleep
20100430 05:10:25< Unnheulu> Schools in 4 and a half hours :o
20100430 05:10:57< Unnheulu> At least I'll have a reason to sleep in detention^^
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20100430 05:16:17< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Never heard of Our Lady Peace?
20100430 05:16:29< Gambit> Or my clues just weren't cutting it?
20100430 05:16:47< Gambit> You've probably heard them at some point, just not latched on.
20100430 05:16:53< Gambit> Superman's Dead was a huge song for a while.
20100430 05:17:18-!- TaylorSwift [~Taylor@222-155-70-179.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #wesnoth
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20100430 05:18:06< Gambit> Good night everybody.
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20100430 05:19:42< fyretux> cya
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20100430 05:58:26< Issyl> hurm
20100430 05:58:29< Issyl> hello everyone
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20100430 06:38:56< ancestral> Issyl: Hey and stuff :P 
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20100430 09:03:29< Ivanovic> moin
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20100430 09:28:21< Issyl> ohai
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--- Log opened Fri Apr 30 10:04:33 2010
20100430 10:04:46-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 10:04:46-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.8.0 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100430 10:04:46-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Mon Apr  5 23:02:18 2010]
20100430 10:04:46[Users #wesnoth]
20100430 10:04:46[ ABCD      ] [ fendrin  ] [ law_       ] [ sevis         ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ ancestral ] [ Fother   ] [ lobby      ] [ SgtFlame|Zen  ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ AnMaster  ] [ fydo     ] [ lukjad86   ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ apoi      ] [ G-Lo     ] [ MadMerlin3 ] [ Smar          ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ Ariannah  ] [ gnuvince ] [ namad7     ] [ TaylorSwift   ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ Becquerel ] [ happygrue] [ Necrosporus] [ unimatrix0    ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ BenUrban  ] [ Hellrider] [ olik       ] [ Vetinari      ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ drry      ] [ isaac    ] [ qemqemqem  ] [ Vornicus      ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ erl       ] [ Issyl    ] [ retupmoca  ] [ VurtualRuler98] 
20100430 10:04:46[ Espreon   ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Rhonda     ] [ wesbot        ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ ettin     ] [ John_R   ] [ rrix       ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 
20100430 10:04:46[ Euthanatos] [ Kivi     ] [ Sacho      ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20100430 10:04:46-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 48 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 48 normal]
20100430 10:04:46-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org
20100430 10:04:51-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 10:04:56-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006
20100430 10:05:54-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 75 secs
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20100430 11:33:54< Unnheulu|Laptop> shadowmaster, what's up (or down) with the website?
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20100430 13:24:39-!- martin__1 [~martin@f048073232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100430 13:27:48-!- Susi [~peter@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe47dc00-135.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 13:28:02< Susi> yo
20100430 13:28:16< Susi> anyone knows that is it just me or why can't i go to wesnoth forums
20100430 13:28:52< Susi> it says
20100430 13:28:52< Susi> General Error
20100430 13:28:53< Susi> SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]
20100430 13:28:53< Susi> Table './forum/phpbb3_sessions' is marked as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed [144]
20100430 13:28:53< Susi> An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
20100430 13:29:09-!- gpod [~giacomo@151.64.88.199] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 13:29:41< Unnheulu> It's not just you
20100430 13:30:24< Sacho> fun
20100430 13:31:52< Susi> dam
20100430 13:31:59< Susi> well good that its not just me
20100430 13:32:05< Kivi> Hacked?
20100430 13:32:11< Unnheulu> Ivanovic: Don't suppose you know whats wrong?
20100430 13:33:55< Ivanovic> Unnheulu: no, i doN't, but eventually shadowmaster will look at it
20100430 13:34:03-!- Skystriker [~croselius@pool-70-111-210-233.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 13:34:04< Unnheulu> Eventually...
20100430 13:34:10< Unnheulu> It's still 5am for him
20100430 13:34:11< Ivanovic> though it will probably be some hours before he is up
20100430 13:34:13-!- Jozrael [~croselius@pool-70-111-210-233.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
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20100430 13:34:29-!- Jozrael is now known as Skystriker
20100430 13:36:49-!- Skystriker is now known as Skywork
20100430 13:36:53-!- Hulavuta [~Jeremy@97.100.17.47] has joined #wesnoth
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20100430 13:37:03< Hulavuta> uh-oh
20100430 13:37:13< Unnheulu> I'm not that bad am I? :(
20100430 13:37:28< Hulavuta> No, the Forum is down
20100430 13:37:33< Unnheulu> ah
20100430 13:37:44< Unnheulu> [12:28] <Susi> yo
20100430 13:37:45< Unnheulu>  anyone knows that is it just me or why can't i go to wesnoth forums
20100430 13:37:54< Unnheulu> [12:37] <Hulavuta> uh-oh
20100430 13:37:54< Unnheulu> <Unnheulu> I'm not that bad am I? :(
20100430 13:37:55< Unnheulu> <Hulavuta> No, the Forum is down
20100430 13:37:59< Susi> its me too
20100430 13:38:03< Unnheulu> I think that its realised already :)
20100430 13:38:21< Hulavuta> That sucks!!!
20100430 13:38:32< Unnheulu> Not really, its jut a forum
20100430 13:38:56< Unnheulu> *just
20100430 13:38:56< Jarkko_> And it's been like that the whole day...
20100430 13:39:17< Hulavuta> Because apparently before it crashed, Sangel merged my thread with another!!
20100430 13:39:28< Hulavuta> Now I can't see what it looks like and/or complain
20100430 13:39:31< Hulavuta> whiiiiiinnneee
20100430 13:39:33< Unnheulu> Anything wrong with your thread being merged?
20100430 13:39:42< Hulavuta> I don't see the point
20100430 13:39:55< Unnheulu> Obviously Sangel did
20100430 13:40:18 * Rhonda is investigating.
20100430 13:40:20< Hulavuta> Well he merged it because it talks about the same thing, however, his only had a few posts, which were just links to mine
20100430 13:40:39< Hulavuta> Plus, that's kinda like merging all the topics that bitch about luck right?
20100430 13:40:48< Unnheulu> Not really
20100430 13:40:53< Hulavuta> Yeah it is
20100430 13:41:00< Hulavuta> Because they are all about the same thing?
20100430 13:41:02< Unnheulu> Besides, like it or not, he's the moderator, not you
20100430 13:41:06< Hulavuta> I know..
20100430 13:41:26< Unnheulu> So trust his judgement :P
20100430 13:41:27< Hulavuta> But that doesn't mean he's always right 100% of the time
20100430 13:41:43< Rhonda> There ya go.
20100430 13:41:46< Jarkko_> Do you know what we need? A comical wesnoth-themed error page :D
20100430 13:41:52< Hulavuta> lol
20100430 13:41:58< Hulavuta> That would just piss people off even more.
20100430 13:42:16< Hulavuta> Why did it just get back on all of a sudden?
20100430 13:42:31< Jarkko_> Because Rhonda performed some instant magic?
20100430 13:43:05< Susi> bye
20100430 13:43:16-!- Susi [~peter@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe47dc00-135.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Susi]
20100430 13:43:26< Hulavuta> Oh,,,I see
20100430 13:43:33< Hulavuta> He just took that topic and added it to mine
20100430 13:43:37< Hulavuta> That's a little better I guess
20100430 13:44:38 * Rhonda did the magic handwave
20100430 13:45:31< Jarkko_> Apparently Rhonda has "Cures Forum +40"... <_<;
20100430 13:46:27< Ivanovic> nope, what Rhonda has is :debug access
20100430 13:46:29< Ivanovic> ;)
20100430 13:48:18< Rhonda> Wait, I stop it again.
20100430 13:49:08< Rhonda> wow. phpbb3_posts contains a lot of rows.
20100430 13:49:12< Rhonda> post less, people!
20100430 13:50:00-!- Zerovirus [~62c45c53@gateway/web/freenode/x-qripvotpgycewely] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 13:50:12< Zerovirus> Huh.
20100430 13:50:20< Jarkko_> Hi there.
20100430 13:50:23< Zerovirus> What happened with the forums this time round?
20100430 13:50:42 * Rhonda lays her hands onto the forum.
20100430 13:50:55< Hulavuta> It's down again 
20100430 13:50:55 * Rhonda starts to wonder why people can't live without the forum. :)
20100430 13:50:55< Hulavuta> lol
20100430 13:51:09< Rhonda> extended healing hands require a bit longer
20100430 13:51:15 * Hulavuta is confused
20100430 13:51:25< Hulavuta> Just when I pressed "reply" it gave me another error
20100430 13:51:34< Rhonda> <nelson point="Hulavuta">HA HA!</nelson>
20100430 13:52:23 * Rhonda really would like to know when to do some maintenance task without all the people popping up right ahead. :)
20100430 13:52:56< Jarkko_> I don't know what might be more annoying... A comical error image or a "You can search for Google in the meantime" -message...
20100430 13:53:31< Jarkko_> Grammar-wise... that was a real gem...
20100430 13:54:53< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Maybe we really should tweak the General Error page to read something more interesting. :)
20100430 13:56:14< Rhonda> - recovering (with keycache) MyISAM-table 'phpbb3_search_wordmatch.MYI'
20100430 13:56:15< Rhonda> Data records: 9418119
20100430 13:56:16< Rhonda> woha
20100430 13:56:36 * Rhonda . o O ( it's only at 2 millions right now )
20100430 14:00:05-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:00:53< Hulavuta> A mosquito
20100430 14:00:56< Hulavuta> An albino
20100430 14:01:23< Hulavuta> a mulatto
20100430 14:01:27< Hulavuta> my libido
20100430 14:01:39< Jarkko_> Is this a riddle?
20100430 14:02:05< Hulavuta> No, it's a song
20100430 14:02:09< Hulavuta> lol
20100430 14:03:45< Hulavuta> I gotta go to school now
20100430 14:04:04< Hulavuta> Bye all
20100430 14:04:05-!- Hulavuta [~Jeremy@97.100.17.47] has left #wesnoth []
20100430 14:04:16 * Rhonda . o O ( 2.5 mill and counting )
20100430 14:06:01-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:06:22< Jarkko_> Gambit: Hello
20100430 14:07:30-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20100430 14:09:58-!- PureEvilMoron [~PureEvilM@94.233.214.90] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:10:10< PureEvilMoron> Hello.
20100430 14:10:22-!- PureEvilMoron is now known as DrakeMoron
20100430 14:11:11< Unnheulu> I want people to stfu about the election -.-
20100430 14:12:03< Unnheulu> it's not like plaid'll ever be in power
20100430 14:13:03< Rhonda> Which election? Vote for me!
20100430 14:13:08-!- Ken_Oh [~briang@static-71-178-174-220.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:13:14< Unnheulu> :P
20100430 14:13:53-!- Rhonda changed the topic of #wesnoth to: forum in maintenance - please be patient! | Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.8.0 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100430 14:14:14< DrakeMoron> there's 2 bugs with 1.8
20100430 14:14:22< DrakeMoron> idk how to report them, but...
20100430 14:15:59-!- FAAB [~huajie@219.142.227.154] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:16:27< DrakeMoron> First is, wheither I use /emote or /me, it shows /me infront of sentence, instead of making it an "emote". 2nd is, I was AFK for awhile (dinner) and when returned, got an retarded error (didn't remember the code)
20100430 14:16:31-!- martin__1 [~martin@f054230053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
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20100430 14:17:39< DrakeMoron> so what the bladerunner can those 2 bugs be? should I downgrade to 1.6.x I have on a pen drive?
20100430 14:18:06-!- Jarkko_ [~JMP@gprs-prointernet-ffe16a00-59.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100430 14:18:07 * Rhonda . o O ( 3.4 millions and counting )
20100430 14:19:08< DrakeMoron> 3.4 millions? ?
20100430 14:19:42 * DrakeMoron explodes. Wesnoth 1.8 $t1nk$
20100430 14:23:45-!- DrakeMoron [~PureEvilM@94.233.214.90] has left #wesnoth ["WESNOTH 1.8 $U%! I'M DISGUSTED! FLYING VOMITBALLS!"]
20100430 14:25:44-!- Zerovirus_ [~a6cd0c2d@gateway/web/freenode/x-lxlezbqpwywohwiz] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:26:13< Unnheulu> Zerovirus: http://www.jonespenarth.me.uk/~ieuan/Amazolia-10.png
20100430 14:26:15< Unnheulu> Better now? :P
20100430 14:26:27< Unnheulu> The unit is due to be redrawn now
20100430 14:26:28< Zerovirus_> Oh huh. It actually worked. 
20100430 14:26:45< Zerovirus_> What unit?
20100430 14:26:52-!- lizard_r [~Rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 14:26:53< Unnheulu> In the screenshot
20100430 14:27:57< Zerovirus_> Uhh... Not by much. Have you considered using rpg maker sprites?
20100430 14:28:24-!- Zerovirus_ [~a6cd0c2d@gateway/web/freenode/x-lxlezbqpwywohwiz] has quit [Client Quit]
20100430 14:29:12< Unnheulu> Nah
20100430 14:29:25< Unnheulu> I'm just getting my bro to draw everything^^
20100430 14:29:51< Unnheulu> The engine just can't support transitions and stuff yet
20100430 14:30:23< Unnheulu> I think the grass and mountains are due a redraw
20100430 14:30:38< Unnheulu> Obviously the texture used on the panels is only temporary
20100430 14:33:05 * Rhonda . o O ( 4.3 million of 9.4 done )
20100430 14:33:12< Unnheulu> Zerovirus: If I rephrase myself, is the redrawn textures better? :P
20100430 14:34:14-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
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20100430 15:04:56< Kenpachi> hello?
20100430 15:07:18< Appleman1234> hi
20100430 15:07:18-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 15:07:56-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:09:17< Kenpachi> this channel is quieter than I thought it would be
20100430 15:10:02< [sky]> It is right now
20100430 15:10:56< sevis> It is most of the time, yes.
20100430 15:14:07-!- SekoIdiootti [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:17:09-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:17:52< SekoIdiootti> hi Gambit. Happy bithday.
20100430 15:18:15< Gambit> Ummm
20100430 15:18:18< Gambit> No.
20100430 15:18:28< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100430 15:18:36-!- Jarkko_ [~JMP@gprs-prointernet-ffe16a00-59.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:18:42< Gambit> Thought you're not too far off.
20100430 15:18:49< SekoIdiootti> really? :O
20100430 15:20:25< SekoIdiootti> I thought you were born in first of december 1992! :O
20100430 15:20:28< SekoIdiootti> ...or something
20100430 15:20:55< SekoIdiootti> or 1991
20100430 15:21:10< SekoIdiootti> or are you a older? :O
20100430 15:21:13< Gambit> How did you even formulate those numbers?
20100430 15:21:18-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Quit: Got to go, I'm in a hurry so bye.]
20100430 15:21:19< SekoIdiootti> ?
20100430 15:21:36 * Gambit doesn't think he's ever mentioned his birthday here.
20100430 15:21:44< SekoIdiootti> well... I thought you'd be that age.
20100430 15:22:03< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100430 15:22:16< Gambit> And December 1st?
20100430 15:22:23< SekoIdiootti> weeeeell...
20100430 15:22:25< SekoIdiootti> dunno
20100430 15:22:33< Gambit> 92 is actually spot on.
20100430 15:22:39< SekoIdiootti> wow :0
20100430 15:22:52< SekoIdiootti> cool, you're 1992 years old.
20100430 15:22:55< SekoIdiootti> ...or not
20100430 15:22:55< [sky]> xD
20100430 15:22:58< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100430 15:23:48< Gambit> I'm 1993 years old! My birthday was yesterday.
20100430 15:24:01< Gambit> And no. Not seriously.
20100430 15:24:19< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100430 15:24:58< SekoIdiootti> I thought you were a nice person. And I still think so even if you think that I think you're a horrible person.
20100430 15:25:09< SekoIdiootti> ...I'm not drunk bt
20100430 15:25:11< SekoIdiootti> *btw
20100430 15:25:22< Unnheulu> Are you high then?
20100430 15:25:26< SekoIdiootti> no
20100430 15:25:37< Gambit> Lol. Someone used that as a defense wehn they got pulled over for DUI.
20100430 15:25:37< SekoIdiootti> I've slept too little
20100430 15:25:44< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100430 15:25:45< Gambit> No officer, I'm not drunk. I'm just high.
20100430 15:25:51< SekoIdiootti> LOL :O
20100430 15:26:12< SekoIdiootti> "and se he spent the rest of his day in prison"
20100430 15:26:16< SekoIdiootti> *life
20100430 15:26:28< Unnheulu> In school people use my balls havn't dropped as an excuse for not being allowed to be punished ;/
20100430 15:26:28< SekoIdiootti> ...I was thinking of "rest of his days"
20100430 15:26:36< SekoIdiootti> O.o
20100430 15:26:47< Kenpachi> creepy
20100430 15:27:06-!- Zerovirus [~62c45c53@gateway/web/freenode/x-qripvotpgycewely] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100430 15:29:04< SekoIdiootti> Zero was scared by this ;0
20100430 15:29:08< SekoIdiootti> or maybe
20100430 15:29:13< SekoIdiootti> *maybe not
20100430 15:29:20< Gambit> I didn't know the webchat could have a ping timeout.
20100430 15:29:50< SekoIdiootti> PING RING
20100430 15:33:18< Gambit> How did he join today?
20100430 15:33:22 * Gambit is suspicious.
20100430 15:33:30< SekoIdiootti> ?
20100430 15:33:37< SekoIdiootti> Forums are down. :(
20100430 15:33:55< Gambit> Yep.
20100430 15:34:07< Unnheulu> Rhonda: Hurry up! :P
20100430 15:34:14 * Gambit slaps Unnheulu.
20100430 15:36:12-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:36:21-!- Hellrider [~Hell@host124-189-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100430 15:36:24< SekoIdiootti> hi King_Elendil
20100430 15:36:43< Unnheulu> Yo
20100430 15:37:38 * Unnheulu likes doing a=1-a
20100430 15:37:39< Jarkko_> King_Elendil: Hello there.
20100430 15:37:51< Unnheulu> Always a great way to waste time
20100430 15:38:10< Gambit> Unnheulu: Wouldn't that be -a+1
20100430 15:38:44< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100430 15:38:46< Gambit> What use is that?
20100430 15:38:54< Unnheulu> Well
20100430 15:39:10< Unnheulu> def toggle_option(self): self.option = 1 - self.option
20100430 15:39:17< Gambit> What you should do is if a is even a=a/2
20100430 15:39:24< Gambit> if a is odd then a=3a+1
20100430 15:39:47< Gambit> Loop while a!=1
20100430 15:39:48< Unnheulu> But that needs an if statement...
20100430 15:39:50< Gambit> Count the number of loops.
20100430 15:39:54< Unnheulu> Lol
20100430 15:40:07< Gambit> It's fun. No matter what number you start A at, it will always go back to 1.
20100430 15:40:13< Gambit> It just might take a while.
20100430 15:41:02< Unnheulu> With 23450 its only 14 iterations :(
20100430 15:41:14< Gambit> Try 709
20100430 15:41:37-!- Hellrider [~Hell@host9-177-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:41:38< Unnheulu>  2345034855968454354157354231354887684 is only 120
20100430 15:42:17< Unnheulu> 709 is lagging
20100430 15:42:31< Gambit> :)
20100430 15:42:38< Gambit> Next try: 63728127
20100430 15:42:45< Unnheulu> Will it ever finish?
20100430 15:42:51< Gambit> Yes.
20100430 15:42:58< Gambit> It always finishes (like a man).
20100430 15:43:10< Gambit> Unnheulu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collatz_conjecture
20100430 15:44:09< Unnheulu> Does it rely on it reaching 2.1bil?
20100430 15:44:11-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 15:44:32-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:45:54< Unnheulu> I did it wrong :/
20100430 15:45:55 * Gambit solves 709 by hand
20100430 15:45:57< Unnheulu> 709 only takes 24
20100430 15:45:59< Gambit> and races Unnheulu's computer.
20100430 15:46:01< Gambit> awww
20100430 15:46:13< Unnheulu> 63728127 is 592
20100430 15:46:33< Gambit> nope.
20100430 15:46:37< Gambit> Your equation is wrong
20100430 15:46:37< Unnheulu> 345678909876535465465413548531542435786333333333333333354835488452413520 is 997 
20100430 15:46:42< Unnheulu> What!?
20100430 15:46:43< Unnheulu> Booo
20100430 15:46:45< Gambit> Yeah.
20100430 15:46:53< Gambit> If it's even divide by 2.
20100430 15:46:58< Gambit> If it's odd multiply by 3 and add 1.
20100430 15:47:00< sevis> Unnheulu, what did you code it in?
20100430 15:47:11< Unnheulu> http://pastebin.com/wUcMmXeg
20100430 15:47:16< Unnheulu> sevis: python
20100430 15:47:34< Unnheulu> I'll try java if python isn't capable of it, but, I hate java :/
20100430 15:47:45< sevis> Lemme do it in C...
20100430 15:47:50< Gambit> 33 steps for 709 :)
20100430 15:48:01< Unnheulu> Gambit: What'd I do wrong then? :(
20100430 15:48:10< Gambit> let me try to decipher python. hold on
20100430 15:48:34< Unnheulu> I bet I've done something very stupid
20100430 15:49:19< Gambit> actually that looks good if I'm reading it right...
20100430 15:50:01< Gambit> while a isn't one you increment i. if a/2 returns a remainder you multiply by 3 and add one... if it doesn't you divide by 2.
20100430 15:50:24< Gambit> maybe change the odd check to if a%2 != 0 ? I dunno.
20100430 15:50:28< Unnheulu> The a%2 tells me if its odd or even
20100430 15:50:33< Gambit> Right.
20100430 15:50:43< Gambit> a modulo 2 right?
20100430 15:50:48< Unnheulu> Mmhmm
20100430 15:50:59< Gambit> hmmm python looks so tidy.
20100430 15:51:24< Gambit> is it messing up on order of operations maybe?
20100430 15:51:30< Unnheulu> I split the code
20100430 15:51:34< Gambit> Adding 1 and then multiplying by 3?
20100430 15:51:37< Unnheulu> Same thing
20100430 15:51:44< Unnheulu> I'll update pastebin with what I has
20100430 15:51:58< Unnheulu> http://pastebin.com/QzCcAar9
20100430 15:52:27< Unnheulu> Definitely in the right order now :P
20100430 15:52:48-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 15:52:59-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 15:53:32< Gambit> When odd numbers are divided by 2 they don't always return a remainder of 1 do they?
20100430 15:53:50< Unnheulu> Ofc they do
20100430 15:53:55< Unnheulu> Two is even
20100430 15:55:12< Gambit> Okay nvm.
20100430 15:55:32< Gambit> So you still got 24?
20100430 15:55:37< Unnheulu> For 709
20100430 15:56:59< Gambit> strange.
20100430 15:57:42< Unnheulu> Are you sure its not 24?
20100430 15:57:56< Gambit> Yes.
20100430 15:58:13< sevis> I get 33 for 709
20100430 15:58:28< Unnheulu> Ok, so I have the problem^^
20100430 15:59:22< Gambit> have it print each number
20100430 15:59:28< sevis> http://pastebin.com/g5Vs5AFA
20100430 15:59:31< Gambit> each a
20100430 16:00:06< Unnheulu> http://pastebin.com/qxbuGQh2
20100430 16:00:51< Gambit> Unnheulu: It's not counting the *3+a steps.
20100430 16:00:53< sevis> It's not doing the first one.
20100430 16:01:04< Gambit> It isn't doing any of the odds.
20100430 16:01:06< Unnheulu> Hmm?
20100430 16:01:12< Gambit> it's doing them, but not counting them.
20100430 16:01:13< Unnheulu> Oh
20100430 16:01:19< Unnheulu> I've used to if's
20100430 16:01:20< sevis> Or that.
20100430 16:01:23< sevis> Oh, yes.
20100430 16:01:35 * Unnheulu changes it to an elif
20100430 16:01:38< Unnheulu> Works now
20100430 16:02:07< sevis> You could just have it an else...
20100430 16:02:26-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100430 16:02:28< Unnheulu> I could
20100430 16:02:30< sevis> If a%2 isn't 0, it's pretty sure to be a 1.
20100430 16:02:39< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100430 16:02:40< Gambit> Now try 9780657630 :)
20100430 16:02:42< Gambit> Time it.
20100430 16:02:49< sevis> And, I'm not sure about python, but I'm guessing the == 1 is unneeded, too.
20100430 16:02:49< Unnheulu> erm
20100430 16:02:59< Unnheulu> Its unneeded
20100430 16:03:10< Unnheulu> just like the == 0 is unneeded
20100430 16:03:55< Unnheulu> 0.00286507606506 seconds :P
20100430 16:04:04< sevis> Mine is still busy... O_o
20100430 16:04:13< Gambit> coldfusion won't even do it
20100430 16:04:21< Gambit> it converts large numbers to scientific notation
20100430 16:04:29< Gambit> and that confuses the rest of the equation :(
20100430 16:04:29< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 16:04:31< sevis> Lemme switch it to use a long int...
20100430 16:05:01< Unnheulu> sevis: Can you stop C++ using ugly letters and stuff in huge numbers?
20100430 16:05:14< Unnheulu> (Well, random "e"'s and stuff)
20100430 16:05:27< sevis> Errm. Not sure, I'm not using C++ right now.
20100430 16:05:39< Unnheulu> Is there that much of a difference?
20100430 16:05:52< Gambit> A whole 2 plus signs!
20100430 16:06:12< Unnheulu> A difference of one number...big deal :P
20100430 16:06:31< sevis> I've found C to be more elegant to use.
20100430 16:06:35< sevis> C++ feels really hackish.
20100430 16:06:56< Unnheulu> Gambit: I'm installing java atm, so I'll try coding it out into java
20100430 16:07:20-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 16:07:21< Unnheulu> What's %d equal to?
20100430 16:07:32-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:08:01< sevis> That's a placeholder for an integer, which is the next argument passed to printf(), which is c.
20100430 16:08:15< Unnheulu> Ah ok
20100430 16:08:16-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100430 16:08:19< Unnheulu> Complicated :/
20100430 16:08:20< Gambit> lol c++ is c that's been incremented
20100430 16:08:38-!- lizard_r [~Rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has left #wesnoth []
20100430 16:10:18< sevis> Hm. It's still busy with 9780657630 O___o
20100430 16:10:24< Unnheulu> :O
20100430 16:10:29< sevis> Unnheulu, did that really go in a matter of seconds for you?
20100430 16:10:35< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100430 16:10:49< Unnheulu> Milliseconds if python's time module is to be believed
20100430 16:11:02-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 16:11:30< Unnheulu> Gambit: 9780657630 reaches a highest number of 319497287463520
20100430 16:11:38-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:11:49< Gambit> pull some bigguns off the wikipedia page.
20100430 16:11:53< sevis> How in the world...? O_o
20100430 16:12:22< Gambit> Unnheulu: There's a $500 reward for proving this to be true.
20100430 16:12:53< sevis> Proving what exactly?
20100430 16:13:46< sevis> Bah, I think 9780657630 bugs out. :(
20100430 16:13:46< Gambit> That this is always true for any positive number.
20100430 16:13:51< Gambit> The collatz conjecture.
20100430 16:13:53< sevis> Lemme capture the output.
20100430 16:14:12< Gambit> It's been tested for up to 5764000000000000000
20100430 16:14:15< Unnheulu> sevis: You really want 1132 numbers floating around? ;)
20100430 16:14:50< sevis> I want to figure out why it won't work... :(
20100430 16:15:13< Unnheulu> Why not ujst print the number of iterations then?
20100430 16:15:18< Unnheulu> (In your case, c)
20100430 16:15:25< sevis> Because it doesn't stop running.
20100430 16:15:39< Unnheulu> So it has over 1132 iterations?
20100430 16:15:40< sevis> I really think 8 minutes should be more than enough.
20100430 16:15:50< sevis> So I don't know how many iterations it has.
20100430 16:15:55< sevis> Lemme see the printf manual...
20100430 16:16:08< Gambit> It has a manual 0_)
20100430 16:16:38< Sacho> man printf
20100430 16:17:05< sevis> Of course it has a manual.. :P
20100430 16:17:18< sevis> I love having C function manuals always at hand.
20100430 16:17:29< Gambit> Do they have a manual for every function?
20100430 16:17:36< Gambit> How much is there really to say about it :\
20100430 16:17:39< Sacho> of course
20100430 16:17:41< sevis> Every standard one, as far as I know.
20100430 16:18:06< sevis> http://linux.die.net/man/3/printf
20100430 16:18:16< Gambit> oh
20100430 16:18:20 * Gambit thought you meant a whole book
20100430 16:19:47< Unnheulu> Gambit: you were saying about python being clean?
20100430 16:19:49< Unnheulu> http://pastebin.com/VaHmR04w :P
20100430 16:19:53< sevis> Yeah, it breaks. :(
20100430 16:20:04< Unnheulu> Bah, I'm gonna change the stuff sevis said to
20100430 16:20:17< sevis> Has some negative stuff in the output.
20100430 16:20:28< Unnheulu> http://pastebin.com/0nSq6S7g
20100430 16:20:52< sevis> Oh, wait, no, that's due to me using unsigned...
20100430 16:21:03-!- Samwise [~Samwise@p57B19183.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:21:20< sevis> No, signed is even worse. Gah!
20100430 16:21:41< Unnheulu> Hmm
20100430 16:21:47< Gambit> Unnheulu: That is pretty clean.
20100430 16:21:48< sevis> Loops -20, -10, -5, -14, -7.
20100430 16:21:48< Unnheulu> Number 3 takes longer...
20100430 16:21:54< Unnheulu> Gambit: is it? Yay!
20100430 16:22:24< Unnheulu> I think that's wrong, bah
20100430 16:22:33< Gambit> Of course it's not as good as coldfusion.
20100430 16:22:57-!- lizard_r [~rolf@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/lizard] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:22:59< Unnheulu> Gambit: me with more numbers
20100430 16:23:14< Gambit> 5764000000000000001
20100430 16:23:20< Gambit> Nobody has done that one yet :)
20100430 16:23:22< Unnheulu> Lawl
20100430 16:23:32< Gambit> They've only done 5764000000000000000
20100430 16:23:33< Unnheulu> 396 iterations
20100430 16:24:03< sevis> Unnheulu... I don't understand how python can be that fast. o.o
20100430 16:24:21< Unnheulu> It's written is C, so it stands to reason it should be slower :/
20100430 16:24:21 * Gambit tries to find a way to either stop coldfusion from autoconverting large and small integers to scientific notation, or unconvert them after it does it.
20100430 16:24:41< sevis> Erm.
20100430 16:24:50< sevis> You're saying C should be slower than Python...?
20100430 16:24:53< Unnheulu> No
20100430 16:24:56< Unnheulu> The other way
20100430 16:25:02< sevis> Okay, then I misunderstood you.
20100430 16:25:06< Unnheulu> :P
20100430 16:25:12< Unnheulu> Gambit: Choose a number: 7428745842455646453261545615436515204152361455614520164561453261543216054061654516235416524065461554605460145561054326155646154326145356154356154
20100430 16:25:12< Unnheulu> It took 0.011589050293 seconds and 3860 iterations to reach zero.
20100430 16:25:12< Unnheulu> It had a highest number of 42886262341452889289464110839787433577308695102318066323619465427662695322889337373211734129073044411777668769110364413183717775642941882705685904
20100430 16:25:19< sevis> But, yeah, I'm getting my int overfilled.
20100430 16:25:25< Gambit> omg supposedly coldfusion can handle ints up to 1e300
20100430 16:25:28< Unnheulu> Use a double?
20100430 16:25:29< Gambit> that's not possible is it?
20100430 16:26:04-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:26:05< Sacho>  e^300?
20100430 16:26:13< Gambit> 1x10^300
20100430 16:26:18< sevis> THat's...
20100430 16:26:19< Gambit> Unnheulu: You're not trying to reach 0.
20100430 16:26:19< sevis> Hm.
20100430 16:26:25< sevis> That's possible.
20100430 16:26:29< Unnheulu> I meant one >.<
20100430 16:26:57< Gambit> That's... 1 and 300 0's 0_0
20100430 16:27:04< Gambit> but this doesn't help
20100430 16:27:07< Unnheulu> What about a googleplex?
20100430 16:28:14< Samwise> www.google.com
20100430 16:28:26< Sacho> I don't see how you could handle all numbers up to 2^300
20100430 16:29:00< sevis> It could...
20100430 16:29:05< sevis> It'd just be an awful pain.
20100430 16:29:10< Gambit> ah it only does those in scientific notation
20100430 16:29:19< Unnheulu> wtf
20100430 16:29:28< Unnheulu> this is telling me 5^2 is 7
20100430 16:29:31< Gambit> otherwise it only goes to 2,147,483,647
20100430 16:29:51< Sacho> sevis: how could you represent them?
20100430 16:30:13< sevis> Groups of ints. You'd have to put it all together by hand, but it's possible.
20100430 16:30:31< sevis> And you'd have to write functions for operations on them.
20100430 16:30:40< sevis> It'd be a pain, but possible.
20100430 16:30:41< Sacho> how will you store 2^300
20100430 16:30:53< Unnheulu> Erm
20100430 16:30:57< Unnheulu> This is lagging now
20100430 16:31:15< Sacho> hrm, wait, what was I thinking.
20100430 16:31:20< Sacho> it's obviously possible.
20100430 16:31:24< sevis> 2^300 is 38 bytes.
20100430 16:31:28< Unnheulu> Gambit: http://pastebin.com/Z5fWufLg
20100430 16:31:32< Sacho> yeah.
20100430 16:31:37< Gambit> Sacho: It stores large numbers as strings.
20100430 16:31:40< sevis> I mean, 38 bytes offer that number of possibilities.
20100430 16:31:44< Unnheulu> It still hasn't finished
20100430 16:31:47< sevis> Wait, what?!
20100430 16:31:52< sevis> Gambit, are you serious? xD
20100430 16:31:56< Gambit> yes :(
20100430 16:32:09< Gambit> which is why CF can't do collatz on big numbers
20100430 16:32:15 * sevis goes to alias /facepalm.
20100430 16:32:59< Unnheulu> Gambit: Why is it lagging?
20100430 16:33:04< Unnheulu> :(
20100430 16:33:56< Gambit> sevis: If the 3n+1 step goes higher than what it allows in an integer then it converts to scientific notation and stores it as a string.
20100430 16:34:07< Gambit> Which then messes up the next iteration
20100430 16:34:53< Sacho> why would it
20100430 16:35:03< Gambit> a string divided by 2?
20100430 16:35:03< Sacho> bad implementation?
20100430 16:35:24< sevis> Horrid implementation, it seems...
20100430 16:35:29< Sacho> well, if it stores a number in some type, one would assume operations on that type would behave the same as normal number operations
20100430 16:35:35< Gambit> Well CFML is primarily a web language. I guess they didn't forsee this kind of math.
20100430 16:35:45< Sacho> you could easily divide a "string" by 2
20100430 16:36:23< Gambit> I'm going to dig through the docs later. There has to be something that will evaluate these.
20100430 16:36:52< sevis> Hm, now to find a way to get the remainder of a float...
20100430 16:37:01< Unnheulu> Maaaaan
20100430 16:37:07< Unnheulu> this is boring
20100430 16:37:08-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:37:12< Sacho> it seems like a deceptively simple modulus problem
20100430 16:37:25< Unnheulu> It's been 7minutes already
20100430 16:37:31< Unnheulu> sevis: So much for python being fast^^
20100430 16:37:38< Gambit> Unnheulu: what did you try?
20100430 16:37:41< sevis> a%2 doesn't work.
20100430 16:37:44-!- [sky] [~sky@ip545235f5.speed.planet.nl] has quit []
20100430 16:37:48< Unnheulu> Gambit: http://pastebin.com/Z5fWufLg
20100430 16:38:23< Sacho> subtract it from its nearest integer?
20100430 16:38:29< Unnheulu> I should've done *=10, instead of *=a :/
20100430 16:38:31< Gambit> It doesn't make sense anymore Unnheulu :(
20100430 16:38:44< Unnheulu> Gambit: a = 10
20100430 16:38:51< Unnheulu> for i in range(1,100):
20100430 16:38:57< Unnheulu>     for j in range(1,100):
20100430 16:39:05< Unnheulu>         a*=a
20100430 16:39:29< Unnheulu> and then it does the normal * and /
20100430 16:39:33< sevis> Unnheulu, can't you just make the input an argument for the program?
20100430 16:39:37< Gambit> repeating it does not help :)
20100430 16:39:43< Unnheulu> sevis: humm?
20100430 16:39:57< Unnheulu> Its not in OOP :P
20100430 16:41:06< Unnheulu> Can anyone tell me why its lagging?
20100430 16:41:17< sevis> It doesn't need to be OOP... O_o
20100430 16:41:25< Unnheulu> to give it arguments?
20100430 16:41:47< sevis> To give a program arguments, it doesn't need to be OOP.
20100430 16:42:03< Unnheulu> Oh
20100430 16:42:08< Unnheulu> When you run it?
20100430 16:42:13< Unnheulu> sys.argv[2] :/
20100430 16:43:31< sevis> Hm, okay.
20100430 16:43:46< sevis> I'm just more used to doing it that way, instead of hardcoding things/asking for input.
20100430 16:43:52< Unnheulu> Perhaps
20100430 16:43:59< Unnheulu> I've done it that way before
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20100430 16:45:22< Gambit> forums are back :)
20100430 16:45:26< Unnheulu> In the lagging version I commented out the asking part anyways
20100430 16:45:53< sevis> Weird, mine won't compile... Lemme pastebin it.
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20100430 16:47:05< sevis> http://pastebin.com/4DN3hs97
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20100430 16:47:52< sevis> Seems like my math.h doesn't have a fmod()... Lemme check.
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20100430 16:49:52< Unnheulu> Anyone know why this is lagging?
20100430 16:49:53< sevis> Could someone please 'grep fmod /usr/include/math.h'?
20100430 16:49:57< Unnheulu> for i in range(1,100):
20100430 16:49:57< Unnheulu>         for j in range(1,100):
20100430 16:49:57< Unnheulu>             a*=a
20100430 16:50:08< Unnheulu> (where a starts as 10)
20100430 16:50:19< sevis> Because that's a lot of work. O_o
20100430 16:50:29< sevis> That'll bring a to 10^... erm......
20100430 16:50:50< sevis> That'll run it 10000 times...
20100430 16:50:55< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100430 16:50:59< sevis> So I think a^10000!
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20100430 16:51:04< Unnheulu> No
20100430 16:51:11< Unnheulu> 'cause its a*=a not a*=10
20100430 16:51:16< Unnheulu> Oh wait
20100430 16:51:20< Unnheulu> Yeh your right >.<
20100430 16:51:24< sevis> I know. That's why the ! is there. :P
20100430 16:51:48< Gambit> Unnheulu: nice.
20100430 16:51:59< Unnheulu> Still lagging
20100430 16:52:15< Gambit> somewhere out there at a university, someone is running a similar simulation
20100430 16:52:17< sevis> Are you sure it's lagging, and not just really, *really* busy?
20100430 16:52:30< Unnheulu> Probably very very busy
20100430 16:52:33< Unnheulu> :D
20100430 16:52:46< Unnheulu> Lets see if I can remember how nice works...
20100430 16:52:59< Gambit> how much processing power is it taking?
20100430 16:53:22< Unnheulu> 48.3% of my cpu is going to python
20100430 16:53:42< Unnheulu> Killing another process, its now 96.5%
20100430 16:54:00< Unnheulu> 97.9% it just reached
20100430 16:54:05< sevis> Hm. Stay here and discuss programming or do schoolwork, that's the question. :(
20100430 16:54:28< Unnheulu> Any exams soon?
20100430 16:54:49< sevis> Nah, what I'm thinking of doing is an essay.
20100430 16:54:55< Unnheulu> Ah
20100430 16:55:06< sevis> Christianity as depicted by Nietzsche in The Antichrist.
20100430 16:55:19-!- [sky] [~yana@ip545235f5.speed.planet.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 16:56:20< sevis> But, bah, too lazy to currently fix floating point stuff.
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20100430 17:12:10< Unnheulu> Still running
20100430 17:12:12< Unnheulu> Blargh
20100430 17:12:15< Unnheulu> I'm going to stop it
20100430 17:13:01< sevis> Well... I think it's a bit too much, really.
20100430 17:13:06-!- SgtFlame|Work [~trichards@67.228.184.7-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 17:13:25< sevis> I'm not sure a computer can handle 10000! at all.
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20100430 17:38:31< Unnheulu> elias: can python handle any number until...well, infinity?
20100430 17:38:37< Unnheulu> Or is there a limit?
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20100430 17:39:02< elias> for floating point it uses IEEE 64-bit I think
20100430 17:39:11< elias> for integers... i think no limit, but not 100% sure
20100430 17:39:59< elias> >>> 2**1000
20100430 17:39:59< elias> 10715086071862673209484250490600018105614048117055336074437503883703510511249361224931983788156958581275946729175531468251871452856923140435984577574698574803934567774824230985421074605062371141877954182153046474983581941267398767559165543946077062914571196477686542167660429831652624386837205668069376L
20100430 17:40:05< SgtFlame|Work> http://www.tutorialspoint.com/python/python_numbers.htm
20100430 17:40:06< elias> so i'd say no limit
20100430 17:41:22< sevis> Heh. that's not enough for what you're trying to do, then, Unnheulu.
20100430 17:42:09< elias> what are you trying to do?
20100430 17:42:26< Unnheulu> I was just curious
20100430 17:42:44< Unnheulu> After seeing Gambit mentioning coldfusions limit, I wondered about pythons
20100430 17:43:50< sevis> I wonder how hard it'd be to code the 3n+1 thing in assembler...
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20100430 17:48:52< Gambit> sevis, Unnheulu, elias: http://xkcd.com/710/
20100430 17:49:56< sevis> Hehehe.
20100430 17:50:15< sevis> No, they'll call suggesting awesome new numbers.
20100430 17:50:34< Unnheulu> Heh
20100430 17:50:39< sevis> But now I feel like making a map of them... :(
20100430 17:50:57-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-4-146-106.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 17:51:36< sevis> Hm. Well, it shouldn't be too hard... Does anyone know good node visualising software?
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20100430 18:10:47< sevis> http://pastebin.com/znN3J4kD
20100430 18:11:03< sevis> Okay. Now anyone know any software for displaying stuff? :\
20100430 18:11:14< sevis> Or, even better, libraries...
20100430 18:12:01-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100430 18:12:44< Unnheulu> Like GTK?
20100430 18:13:05< sevis> Preferably something not too hard to learn.
20100430 18:13:44< sevis> I want to be able to create a circle, give that circle a number to display, and have it point to another circle.
20100430 18:14:17< Unnheulu> Use GTk and cairo or clutter
20100430 18:14:29< Unnheulu> Although, I'm not sure how easy it is to learn inC++
20100430 18:14:49< fydo> SDL+OpenGL is fun too
20100430 18:14:56< sevis> Hm. I've seen my friend try GTK code... Is it easy in Python?
20100430 18:14:58< Unnheulu> SDL and OpenGL?
20100430 18:15:02< Unnheulu> You can mix them?
20100430 18:15:11< Unnheulu> sevis: Mmhmm, you know shadowmaster's wesnoth-tc?
20100430 18:15:17< sevis> Nope.
20100430 18:15:21< fydo> yeah, SDL provides the OGL context and handles input/sound for you
20100430 18:15:23< Unnheulu> Ok, well
20100430 18:15:38< Unnheulu> Including the license, the pyGTK gui for that is only 175 lines
20100430 18:15:58< sevis> Nice!
20100430 18:16:08< Unnheulu> fydo: Still trying to get a game into a repository?
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20100430 18:16:23< Unnheulu> That's not including the gladefile :/
20100430 18:16:31< sevis> I think I'll use that, then... I really want something as simple as possible.
20100430 18:16:44< fydo> Unnheulu: nah, just making games for fun
20100430 18:17:02< Unnheulu> Ok, I remember a while back you seemed to be really concentrating on that :P
20100430 18:17:06< sevis> Although... Hm, no, wait. I have to set the position of the circle myself, don't I?
20100430 18:17:14< Unnheulu> Yeh
20100430 18:17:15< Gambit> sevis: I'm so sorry.
20100430 18:17:20< Gambit> I didn't mean to ruin your life. :(
20100430 18:17:27< sevis> Gambit: You ruined my life? O_o
20100430 18:17:33< Gambit> lol
20100430 18:17:36< Unnheulu> How else do you set the position? :P
20100430 18:17:59< sevis> Unnheulu, I'd like something that's focused on creating objects that point to each other. :P
20100430 18:18:23< sevis> Can you imagine trying to map a few thousand circles in a way that all that need to point to each other can point to each other?
20100430 18:18:41< Unnheulu> Can't you use a loop to place them?
20100430 18:18:50< sevis> I mean, obviously, someone needs to do the coding, but I have the feeling it's not beginner stuff.
20100430 18:19:07< sevis> I can't predict where the next ones will need to go.
20100430 18:19:17< sevis> Or, I could, but...
20100430 18:20:09< sevis> I'm trying to map the 3n+1 thing. Every next circle will point to some already-existing circle... or not even. Oh darn.
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20100430 18:21:36< sevis> On one hand, I want something easy to use that will automatically build the tree into something that looks okay.
20100430 18:21:38< Unnheulu> Hah
20100430 18:21:51< Unnheulu> Sounds fun :P
20100430 18:22:01< sevis> On the other, I want to be able to give input from a file that'll be parsed as I want it.
20100430 18:22:23< sevis> So, ideally, a program that offers an API to drawing diagrams.
20100430 18:22:58< Unnheulu> shadowmaster: hit me when your at the keyboard
20100430 18:23:58< sevis> Oh, be right back, dinner. If anyone has any ideas, please do tell. :\
20100430 18:24:36< Unnheulu> shadowmaster: the signal your looking for is 'drag_data_received'
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20100430 18:37:19< sevis> Okay. I have a really ugly idea... I could make a folder for every node and then take a look at it with a disk usage analyzer. xD
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20100430 18:40:55< Gambit> ha.
20100430 18:41:26< sevis> But, anyway, found a Python tool for it, ete.
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20100430 19:35:27< Unnheulu> Rhonda: Sql troubles, I trust you are responsible? :P
20100430 19:35:28< Ken_Oh> hey, can anyone around decipher this part of the EffectWML wiki? "remove_ability: Removes one or more abilities from a unit.  Abilities are not reference counted: added, added, removed = gone."
20100430 19:38:21-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 19:38:33< Unnheulu> Hi again.
20100430 19:39:05< sevis> Hello, if you meant me.
20100430 19:44:02< zookeeper> Ken_Oh, hmmh
20100430 19:44:34< zookeeper> good question
20100430 19:44:43< Ken_Oh> yeah, no idea if "reference counted" if one term or what
20100430 19:44:55< zookeeper> it is
20100430 19:45:55< zookeeper> i'd guess it just means that it removes all the abilities named even if there are several matches...but i don't know why anyone would write that in such a clumsy way :P
20100430 19:46:14 * Unnheulu wonders how old zigg is
20100430 19:48:31< Ken_Oh> Well, since I have you, I'm having trouble removing unit abilities. Just doing {CLEAR_VARIABLE unit.abilities} works, but only sometimes. I'm having trouble figuring out why it works in some instances and not others. 
20100430 19:49:03< Ken_Oh> Like, it removes the ability in the unit container, but when you unstore_unit, it comes back. 
20100430 19:49:08< zookeeper> example of an ability on which it doesn't work?
20100430 19:49:12< zookeeper> oh. that sounds odd.
20100430 19:49:14< Ken_Oh> here
20100430 19:49:20< Ken_Oh> http://pastebin.com/hDvF9iQz
20100430 19:49:29< Ken_Oh> I put that inside the tutorial's start event
20100430 19:49:54< Ken_Oh> I thought it was only for canrecruit=no, because that's how it looks in my campaign. 
20100430 19:49:56< zookeeper> could it be that removal works on abilities which are no inherent to the unit type?
20100430 19:50:03< Ken_Oh> Perhaps.
20100430 19:50:13< Ken_Oh> Haven't thought of that...let me see.
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20100430 19:50:44< zookeeper> that'd be my first guess; that the game would see something missing and would recalculate it...like if you removed unit.hitpoints then the game would recalculate it (probably means fill them up to max)
20100430 19:51:57< Ken_Oh> ahhh, testing it out now
20100430 19:52:13< Ken_Oh> So maybe I need to add the [abilities] container by itself
20100430 19:52:47< zookeeper> that might work, maybe
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20100430 19:56:20< Ken_Oh> Success!
20100430 19:56:54< Ken_Oh> Yes, if you add a non-native ability to the unit and then clear it, that one will disappear but any native abilities stay.
20100430 19:57:20< Ken_Oh> But, unit set_variables to add the [abilities] prevents them from coming back
20100430 19:57:38< Ken_Oh> Awesome, thanks. I'm impressed. I didn't think there was a way out of this one.
20100430 19:59:11< Ken_Oh> I've gotten by all this time before because I had a dummy ability which meant it never showed up before.
20100430 19:59:14< zookeeper> okay
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20100430 20:10:15< Unnheulu> Zarel: I don't think spell is your no. 1 fan :P
20100430 20:15:07-!- martin__1 [~martin@f054230053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 20:16:22< Zarel> Unnheulu: :|
20100430 20:16:40< Zarel> I hope I'm not being too harsh on him.
20100430 20:16:46< Unnheulu> hmm
20100430 20:16:51< Unnheulu> I'm deliberately staying out
20100430 20:16:58< Zarel> But I just can't stand trolling.
20100430 20:17:04< Unnheulu> The last time I used opera, then the browser itself was plastered with adverts
20100430 20:17:42< Zarel> Unnheulu: The last time you used Opera was more than five years ago?
20100430 20:17:50< Unnheulu> Possibly
20100430 20:18:06< Zarel> Because they removed the ads five years ago.
20100430 20:18:22< Unnheulu> And I've never tried Konqueror outside of KDE (for reference I use XFCE)
20100430 20:19:25< Unnheulu> @Opera, I have it on my iPod, but that doesn't really count, maybe I should check it out ;)
20100430 20:20:14< Zarel> I've tried Konq.
20100430 20:20:20< Zarel> It sucks horribly.
20100430 20:20:29-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100430 20:20:45< Unnheulu> I'd hoped you would, if you were to criticise it that much 
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20100430 20:22:28< Zarel> I'm not really criticizing it, actually.
20100430 20:22:38 * Unnheulu was hesitant about using that word
20100430 20:22:48< Zarel> Well, not significantly.
20100430 20:22:48< Unnheulu> Getting the facts straight would be a better term, I suppose
20100430 20:22:53< Zarel> I haven't said anything other than that its standards compliance is subpar.
20100430 20:23:12< Zarel> All I've really been doing is refuting all of Spell's claims about how supposedly awesome it is.
20100430 20:24:17< Zarel> Konq had multiple backgrounds fairly recently, actually.
20100430 20:24:43< Unnheulu> Your flaming :/
20100430 20:24:50< Unnheulu> Exaggerating
20100430 20:24:56< Unnheulu> Wagin war
20100430 20:24:57< Unnheulu> :D
20100430 20:25:11< Unnheulu> *waging
20100430 20:26:34< Unnheulu> Spell said you should try Konqueror for a few weeks; mind if I join in? 
20100430 20:27:07< Zarel> Join how?
20100430 20:27:20< Unnheulu> Trying Konqueror out for a while
20100430 20:27:29< Zarel> Heh, go ahead.
20100430 20:27:36< Unnheulu> When I find out how to download it^^
20100430 20:27:38-!- AmateurEngineer [~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 20:27:46< Zarel> Unnheulu: Which OS are you using?
20100430 20:27:54< Unnheulu> Linux
20100430 20:28:08< Zarel> Hmm, should be simple enough to apt-get install konqueror
20100430 20:28:19< Zarel> Or the equivalent for your package manager.
20100430 20:28:22< Unnheulu> It might be, if I weren't on 8.10 :/
20100430 20:30:07< Aethaeryn> what the hell is an 8.10?
20100430 20:30:08< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 20:30:13< Unnheulu> 8.10 Ubuntu :P
20100430 20:30:25< Unnheulu> s/U/XU/
20100430 20:30:25< Aethaeryn> I reiterate, what the hell is an 8.10?
20100430 20:30:33< Unnheulu> It's a release version :P
20100430 20:30:43-!- kane77 [~kane@194.1.130.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100430 20:31:25< Aethaeryn> August 2010 (aka. the future) or October 2008 (aka. possibly  non-supported?) or 8.10 as in August 10th (or October 8th) or 8.10 as in any other sane versioning system (aka. what comes after 8.9 or before 8.11)?
20100430 20:32:01< Unnheulu> October 2008, so yes, unsupported
20100430 20:32:14< Unnheulu> Which is why I plan on upgrading to the newest version soon
20100430 20:32:15< Aethaeryn> Then upgrade?
20100430 20:32:19< Unnheulu> ^
20100430 20:32:25< Aethaeryn> I'm going to pull an Apple commercial here.
20100430 20:32:32< Aethaeryn> "If you're going to have to upgrade anyway, why not switch?"
20100430 20:32:45-!- kane77 [~kane@194.1.130.108] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 20:32:53< Aethaeryn> In this case, to a more sane distro, possibly one with better long-term support (i.e. Debian stable) if that's what your particular needs require
20100430 20:33:09< Aethaeryn> not everyone enjoys updating every 6 months like Fedora/Ubuntu/others require.
20100430 20:33:09 * Unnheulu smirks
20100430 20:33:10< sevis> Aethaeryn, what's wrong with Ubuntu, then?
20100430 20:33:15< Unnheulu> I tried Debian once
20100430 20:33:20< Aethaeryn> What's wrong is that Ubuntu is not a one-sized fits all solution.
20100430 20:33:30< Aethaeryn> It is not *the* Linux.
20100430 20:33:36< Aethaeryn> The whole point of Linux is choosing something that fits with your style.
20100430 20:33:40 * Unnheulu used to use Knoppix somehow
20100430 20:33:53< Unnheulu> Not particularly sure how I lived with a liveCD, but...
20100430 20:33:57< Aethaeryn> in this case, if you don't update regularly, you are probably better off on a "stable" distro.
20100430 20:34:28< Blarumyrran> I thought the whole point of Linux was to be a good OS.
20100430 20:34:33< Aethaeryn> No.
20100430 20:34:37-!- Skywork is now known as Skystriker
20100430 20:34:39< Aethaeryn> Good is so subjective when it comes to OSes.
20100430 20:34:50< Aethaeryn> Good is whatever fits your needs.
20100430 20:35:01< Aethaeryn> If you find yourself fighting the way a distro does something, it probably doesn't fit.
20100430 20:35:37< Unnheulu> (X)Ubuntu is one of the better distro's I've tried however
20100430 20:35:56< Aethaeryn> meh.
20100430 20:36:03< Unnheulu> Suse is KDE, Gentoo needs too much wrestling
20100430 20:36:09< sevis> Hehe.
20100430 20:36:09< Unnheulu> Debian is just too...stable?
20100430 20:36:14< Aethaeryn> Coming from Linux background, I find Ubuntu one of the least de facto standards non-compliant.
20100430 20:36:19< Blarumyrran> You can use suse with others too
20100430 20:36:22< Blarumyrran> like icewm and whatever
20100430 20:36:26< Unnheulu> Blarumyrran: I guess
20100430 20:36:32< Aethaeryn> In other words, as a Fedora user, I could be comfortable using Debian or CentOS or probably even Suse.
20100430 20:36:39< sevis> I don't like the way Ubuntu handles different WM/DEs.
20100430 20:36:44< Unnheulu> Ah, Fedora...
20100430 20:36:46< Aethaeryn> If I were to step into Ubuntu, however, I find myself fighting the way the OS does things by default.
20100430 20:37:04< sevis> The number of things it that come with one and that aren't adjusted when you switch puts me off.
20100430 20:37:07< Aethaeryn> Such as, making you do everything in sudo (highly insecure) instead of su (from which you can configure sudo to only do certain things like "yum update")
20100430 20:37:23< Unnheulu> I spent a week on that, and got sick of having to use 640x480 instead of 3200x1080 because the drivers weren't opensource
20100430 20:37:28< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, = the most standards compliant?
20100430 20:37:43< Aethaeryn> So in Ubuntu, I find myself in the same situation as in Windows. Instead of having to configure something because it is absent or needs tweaking...
20100430 20:37:54< Aethaeryn> I have to spend all my time removing annoying defaults.
20100430 20:38:00< Unnheulu> Like compiz? ;)
20100430 20:38:25< Aethaeryn> If Compiz is default on Ubuntu, yes, that would be one annoying default I would remove.
20100430 20:38:35 * Unnheulu hates compiz
20100430 20:38:40< Unnheulu> It bugs up *everything*
20100430 20:38:43< Aethaeryn> Compiz is the most pointless thing ever.
20100430 20:39:01< Unnheulu> My family worships it
20100430 20:39:02< Aethaeryn> "Hey, let's slow down all but the most powerful computers just for background eyecandy that amuses you only the day you get it!"
20100430 20:39:10< Aethaeryn> It's Linux with the Windows/Mac mentality.
20100430 20:39:20-!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100430 20:40:17< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn: Feel free to suggest me an alternative distribution, this is just the best out of those I've tried
20100430 20:40:35< Zarel> Most of OS X's effects do have good reason for it, though.
20100430 20:40:37< Aethaeryn> In Fedora, if you want to use something not open-sourced, you need to install RPM Fusion.
20100430 20:40:53< Aethaeryn> Some distros can't just set headquarters offshore just to skirt ACTUAL LEGAL RESTRICTIONS.
20100430 20:41:07< Aethaeryn> Or servers, or whatever.
20100430 20:41:21< Aethaeryn> Regardless, Fedora follows the laws of North Carolina. :p
20100430 20:41:29< elias> compiz is great... i have a hard time with the stiff windows in OSX and Windows
20100430 20:41:39< elias> wobbly windows just makes it much more useable
20100430 20:41:51< Unnheulu> elias: let me find you the stats of my netbook...
20100430 20:42:02< Aethaeryn> I wish I ever owned a computer that could run compiz without *any* performance decrease.
20100430 20:42:12< elias> well, my netbook has win7 on it and it's useless :P
20100430 20:42:40< Unnheulu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_C7
20100430 20:43:08< Unnheulu> Compiz takes hours to be able to reach the disable dialogue even
20100430 20:43:15< Unnheulu> And then even longer to *switch off*
20100430 20:43:58< sevis> Unnheulu, is XFCE lightweight enough for you?
20100430 20:44:13< Unnheulu> sevis: I don't just use it 'cause its lightweight ;)
20100430 20:44:28< sevis> Oh, why else?
20100430 20:44:46< Unnheulu> 'cause KDE is ugly, gnome is...
20100430 20:45:21< Unnheulu> sevis: Why do people use KDE instead of Gnome, or vise versa?
20100430 20:45:43< sevis> Eh, when I asked about lightweightness, I wasn't being sarcastic.
20100430 20:46:21-!- eyerouge [~snowdrop@c-ec90e355.247-29-64736c16.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100430 20:46:23< Unnheulu> And I wasn't sarcastic that I don't really care how lightweight it is :P
20100430 20:46:28< Unnheulu> Gnome runs fine
20100430 20:46:48< sevis> Oh, hm, okay. I dunno about Gnome, but KDE was horrid on this thing.
20100430 20:47:17< Unnheulu> KDE is horrid anyway, at least, in my opinion
20100430 20:47:49< sevis> I like the visual style, but don't see the use of most of the features.
20100430 20:47:55< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn: Did I read once your on xfce?
20100430 20:48:03< Blarumyrran> they say the code of KDE is much nicer
20100430 20:48:06< Unnheulu> Or you tried it for a while, or something?
20100430 20:49:21< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: I switched back to GNOME (without any effects) because of better VirtualBox support
20100430 20:49:29< Unnheulu> Ok
20100430 20:49:31< Aethaeryn> I also like the panel better, more customizability
20100430 20:49:38< Unnheulu> Really?
20100430 20:49:46< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100430 20:49:51< Aethaeryn> xfce is rather spartan when it comes to options.
20100430 20:49:53< Unnheulu> Fair enough :P
20100430 20:49:57< Aethaeryn> As in, you can't really tweak it at all
20100430 20:49:58< Aethaeryn> :P
20100430 20:50:21< Unnheulu> One thing that does bug me about xfce is the panel only covering one screen
20100430 20:50:24-!- vjoe [~vjoe@client-86-25-160-210.mcr-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 20:50:31< Unnheulu> And no apparent option to allow it to span two
20100430 20:50:35< Aethaeryn> GNOME does that too, I think.
20100430 20:50:36< Aethaeryn> But I like it
20100430 20:50:39< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, if it's open-source, you can always tweak it
20100430 20:50:40< Unnheulu> D'ya?
20100430 20:50:42< sevis> Can't you just use a different panel?
20100430 20:50:45< Aethaeryn> since my other monitor 
20100430 20:50:52< Aethaeryn> is not uniform with my laptop screen
20100430 20:50:55< Aethaeryn> much larger
20100430 20:51:04< Aethaeryn> So I prefer to just have the panel on my laptop
20100430 20:51:07< Unnheulu> I guess that'd be a problem
20100430 20:51:23< Unnheulu> Although the difference in screen height is only like 54 pixels
20100430 20:51:47< Aethaeryn> well, a lot of things screw up in "fullscreen" if you have two monitors
20100430 20:51:53< Aethaeryn> VirtualBox is okay, but Wesnoth is not, for instance.
20100430 20:52:08< Unnheulu> Wait
20100430 20:52:08< Aethaeryn> So while I may otherwise just do F11 or Ctrl+F to fullscreen an app, I have to just stick with having it maximized.
20100430 20:52:14< Unnheulu> Virtual box runs in fullscreen?
20100430 20:52:17< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20100430 20:52:21< Aethaeryn> Of course.
20100430 20:52:22< Unnheulu> (As in, nicely)
20100430 20:52:25< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20100430 20:52:30< Unnheulu> ugh
20100430 20:52:31< Aethaeryn> Actually, much nicer than others.
20100430 20:52:38< Aethaeryn> Automatically shifts the resolution, at least for XP
20100430 20:52:51< Unnheulu> When I was using Haiku I was using it in windowed mode >.<
20100430 20:53:18< sevis> That'd be the guest additions not being there.
20100430 20:53:22< Aethaeryn> oh, you can also do seemless mode if you install the guest additions (for Fedora as guest, it's on the repo, for Windows as guest, it's an iso you download, for others idk)
20100430 20:53:39< Aethaeryn> seemless is pretty cool, so is fullscreen
20100430 20:53:47< Aethaeryn> especially fullscreen just on one monitor.
20100430 20:53:57< Unnheulu> brb
20100430 20:53:59< Aethaeryn> So you have Windows running in one place, and just slide the mouse over and you have Linux
20100430 20:54:35< Unnheulu> Back
20100430 20:54:46< Unnheulu> Cool
20100430 20:55:02< Unnheulu> On Gnome, fullscreen just fills one monitor?
20100430 20:55:10< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100430 20:55:13< Aethaeryn> is useful
20100430 20:55:15 * Unnheulu is tempted
20100430 20:55:33< Unnheulu> Having it in windowed is annoying, as a bit of the window sticks out on one side
20100430 20:55:33< Aethaeryn> but it causes problems on some applications that want to always use the smaller laptop screen, even if the window you fullscreen from is the other one
20100430 20:55:36< Aethaeryn> Wesnoth comes to mind.
20100430 20:56:06< Aethaeryn> in VirtualBox, the screen the window is in is the screen it fills when you fullscreen
20100430 20:58:56< Zarel> Aethaeryn: What do you think of Konq?
20100430 20:59:20-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 20:59:45< Aethaeryn> Zarel: konq?
20100430 21:00:19< Unnheulu> ueror
20100430 21:00:36< Aethaeryn> I haven't used it in ages, but all of those Linux web browsers have seemed lacking.
20100430 21:01:04< Aethaeryn> Very clunky UI, lots of missing features/plugins, rendering issues, etc.
20100430 21:01:18< Aethaeryn> Idk how Linux would've made it in the Web 2.0 era without Firefox.
20100430 21:01:40< Zarel> Exactly.
20100430 21:01:41< Unnheulu> Epiphany is no longer built around Firefox anymore afaik
20100430 21:01:49< Unnheulu> (But, I believe it used to be)
20100430 21:01:52< Zarel> Unnheulu: What'd they switch to?
20100430 21:01:58< Unnheulu> Whatever Safari uses
20100430 21:02:01< Aethaeryn> Webkit
20100430 21:02:11< Zarel> They switched to WebKit? Seriously?
20100430 21:02:13< Aethaeryn> it seems to be the everyone-but-Firefox-and-IE choice
20100430 21:02:14< Zarel> :D
20100430 21:02:22< Aethaeryn> it does look nice and crips
20100430 21:02:24< Zarel> Yeah, that's because WebKit is awesome.
20100430 21:02:25< Aethaeryn> *crisp
20100430 21:02:34< Unnheulu> http://projects.gnome.org/epiphany/
20100430 21:02:36< Aethaeryn> the problem with Chrome really is that it claims to be lightweight.
20100430 21:02:41< Zarel> Firefox has its bugs that make it a rather poor choice for anyone not named Firefox.
20100430 21:03:01< Aethaeryn> But Firefox with Flashblock and Adblock Plus is actually lighter in everything except load speed than Chrome on most sites.
20100430 21:03:10< Zarel> IE... a face only a mother could love. Replacing "face" with "browser" and "mother" with "its original publisher"
20100430 21:03:12< Aethaeryn> Especially on linux where flash is a fan nightmare.
20100430 21:03:29 * Gambit loves IE and is in no way affiliated with M$.
20100430 21:03:30< Smar> and opera is fast too... and konqueror is really lightweight in terms of traditional lightweight
20100430 21:03:44< Zarel> Aethaeryn: Chrome is lightweight compared to Firefox without extensions.
20100430 21:03:53< Unnheulu> the UK MoD (Ministry of Defence) uses IE6
20100430 21:03:57< Aethaeryn> Yes, but Firefox has the best extensions by far.
20100430 21:03:58< Gambit> Actually M$ isn't the original maker of IE IIRC.
20100430 21:03:59< Zarel> With extensions, Firefox's memory usage shoots way up.
20100430 21:04:00< Smar> and elinks is full-featured speedy lightweight browser.
20100430 21:04:05< Gambit> M$ isn't the original of... anything.
20100430 21:04:07< Aethaeryn> Zarel: I'm not talking about memory.
20100430 21:04:10< Blarumyrran> All the benchmarks show IE as the slowest, but somehow it loads often faster than opera (& much faster than ff) for me
20100430 21:04:16< Aethaeryn> I'm talking about rendering and browser.
20100430 21:04:18< Zarel> Aethaeryn: You can argue all you want that Firefox has more features, that doesn't change that Chrome has far better performance.
20100430 21:04:32< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Yes!
20100430 21:04:39< Gambit> IE opens instantly.
20100430 21:04:44< Gambit> FF takes almost 2 seconds.
20100430 21:04:46< Zarel> If you're going to add third-party extensions into the mix, allow me to introduce Exhibit A: Privoxy.
20100430 21:04:49< Aethaeryn> My point is that when you're on a site that abuses ads or flash (aka. most sites that aren't a subdomain of google.com), Firefox actually runs the page better when you install flashblock and adblock plus
20100430 21:04:50< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn: Supposedly it's been >5eyars since I last tried Opera =]
20100430 21:04:53< Aethaeryn> And lots it faster.
20100430 21:04:59-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:05:00< Zarel> Aethaeryn: [14:04]  <Zarel> If you're going to add third-party extensions into the mix, allow me to introduce Exhibit A: Privoxy.
20100430 21:05:05 * Gambit times his two browsers.
20100430 21:05:39< Unnheulu> omgosh nice quote Zarel
20100430 21:05:48< Zarel> Unnheulu: ?
20100430 21:05:52< Gambit> IE <1 second. Firefox 3 seconds -_-
20100430 21:05:56< Unnheulu> "I also tried to benchmark Konqueror, the default browser on Linux systems using KDE, but Konqueror refused to start the test"
20100430 21:06:00< Aethaeryn> IE loads because they cheat.
20100430 21:06:04< Aethaeryn> They cache it, just like MS Office.
20100430 21:06:16< Blarumyrran> I really like it that opera has integrated torrent client though
20100430 21:06:21< Aethaeryn> In other words, your cpu is going to be slightly slower ALL the time using Windows just because of IE and MS Office
20100430 21:06:27< Zarel> Gambit: Why not Chrome?
20100430 21:06:28< Aethaeryn> Even when not in IE
20100430 21:06:30< Gambit> Aethaeryn: It also loaded the forums a second faster. :)
20100430 21:06:32< Zarel> Firefox isn't know for speed.
20100430 21:06:33< Blarumyrran> it's like, why would I care if it's just downloading something by ftp or whatever, or by torrent
20100430 21:06:35< Aethaeryn> just so they can create the illusion of loading the browser faster
20100430 21:06:38< sevis> Aethaeryn: Since when does cache take CPU...?
20100430 21:06:42< Aethaeryn> bah, RAM
20100430 21:06:43< Aethaeryn> whatever
20100430 21:06:45< Aethaeryn> I'm tired.
20100430 21:06:54< Unnheulu> At 3 o' clock?
20100430 21:07:00< Aethaeryn> It's called school.
20100430 21:07:05< Unnheulu> Ah
20100430 21:07:05< Zarel> Blarumyrran: What's really nice is that Opera can resume interrupted downloads.
20100430 21:07:08< Gambit> Unnheulu: It's 3 oclock where you're at?
20100430 21:07:11< Unnheulu> No
20100430 21:07:13< Gambit> I thought you were across the pond
20100430 21:07:14< Blarumyrran> yep
20100430 21:07:15< Unnheulu> 8 :P
20100430 21:07:17< sevis> I'd love to be able to select some executables to put in tmpfs, just to keep them around all the time.
20100430 21:07:17< Aethaeryn> Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday have already taken their toll
20100430 21:07:18< Gambit> nvm :P
20100430 21:07:24< Unnheulu> So 10 for Blarumyrran
20100430 21:07:25< sevis> (and yes, I know I could script that, but mehhh)
20100430 21:07:39< Unnheulu> You stayed up until 5:30 yesterday?
20100430 21:07:43< Zarel> CST here. An hour before Aeth.
20100430 21:08:27< Aethaeryn> bbl... food, coffee (if they haven't closed yet... my campus is a ghost town because everything closes early on Friday and nothing happens on Saturday/Sunday)
20100430 21:08:33< Aethaeryn> and other stuff
20100430 21:08:47-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: bbl]
20100430 21:09:12< Gambit> Zarel: Not chrome because they feel compelled to install extra things.
20100430 21:09:27< Gambit> I guess IE mainly because I'm on windows.
20100430 21:10:38 * Gambit boots into ubuntu to [try to] compile upthorn_persistence on his desktop
20100430 21:10:44-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100430 21:11:13-!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:11:41-!- hom13 [~What@65.94.127.7] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:11:43< hom13> hi
20100430 21:12:02< sevis> Hullo
20100430 21:12:11< hom13> I tried modifying characters by editing the save file in Notepad (number of moves, hitpoints, etc) but when I load it it ignores any changes I made.
20100430 21:13:10< hom13> I didn't change/add fields, just modified the existing values
20100430 21:13:30< hom13> any ideas?
20100430 21:15:40< zookeeper> you probably just edited the wrong part or something like that
20100430 21:15:44-!- Gambit [~gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:15:52< zookeeper> beginning-of-scenario or mid-scenario save?
20100430 21:15:56< hom13> can't be. I just changed an integer to another integer
20100430 21:16:08< hom13> hmm...first turn, so mid-scenario
20100430 21:16:54< hom13> should I be editing the beginning-of-scenario save?
20100430 21:17:57-!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20100430 21:19:33< hom13> ok, edited it before you answered. that did it, thanks :P
20100430 21:19:44< Gambit> xchat is interesting.
20100430 21:20:12-!- G-Lo [~Prop@unaffiliated/g-lo] has quit [Quit: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.]
20100430 21:20:42-!- hom13 [~What@65.94.127.7] has quit []
20100430 21:21:14< Gambit> nobody tell shadowmaster I said that though.
20100430 21:22:24< Blarumyrran> Why
20100430 21:22:33< Blarumyrran> "interesting" is ambiguous enough
20100430 21:22:38-!- gambit_ [~gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:22:58-!- Gambit [~gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20100430 21:23:03-!- gambit_ is now known as Gambit
20100430 21:23:18< Blarumyrran> Like I can say, that was an "interesting" move, when someone does something really silly in wesnoth.
20100430 21:23:20< Gambit> It doesn't stay open when you close it though...
20100430 21:23:23-!- gambit_ [~gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:23:29< Gambit> Wth?
20100430 21:23:33< Gambit> Maybe it does :\
20100430 21:23:36 * Gambit is confused now :'(
20100430 21:23:45< sevis> Should it stay open? O.o
20100430 21:23:46-!- G-Lo [~Prop@unaffiliated/g-lo] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:23:49< Blarumyrran> ... it doesn't stay open when you close it?
20100430 21:23:51< Blarumyrran> there's a shock
20100430 21:23:57< Gambit> It should go to the task tray.
20100430 21:24:04< Gambit> Apparently it's still running somewhere...
20100430 21:24:08< Gambit> Cause gambit_ came back.
20100430 21:24:10< sevis> pkill it?
20100430 21:24:21 * Gambit doesn't know linux...
20100430 21:24:24< sevis> Although you'd kill both that way.
20100430 21:25:01< sevis> Run 'ps -ef | grep xchat'.
20100430 21:25:55-!- miso_home [~mzugec@r9hb94.net.upc.cz] has joined #wesnoth
20100430 21:26:09< miso_home> hi people
20100430 21:26:27< miso_home> I'd like to resume yesterday's LAN game
20100430 21:26:30< sevis> The second value is what you're looking for, run 'kill thatnumber' and one of them should close.
20100430 21:26:31< miso_home> hosted on my machine
20100430 21:26:44< miso_home> how can I do that?
20100430 21:27:06-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100430 21:27:20< miso_home> I red this: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7682 but don't see "load game" item
20100430 21:27:40< Gambit> miso_home, It's at the top of the map list when creating a game
20100430 21:28:19< Gambit> Anyone know what the GNOME equivelant of the windows icon area thingamabob is?
20100430 21:28:24< Gambit> [/stupid question]
20100430 21:28:33< Unnheulu> Huh?
20100430 21:28:37< Gambit> The place in the bottom right on windows near the clock.
20100430 21:28:40< Gambit> That holds important icons
20100430 21:28:57< Unnheulu> Like wireless and stuff?
20100430 21:29:00< sevis> I think that's in the top-right.
20100430 21:29:08< Unnheulu> I have a feeling its near the clock.
20100430 21:29:16< Gambit> I mean when adding things to panels.
20100430 21:29:18< Gambit> What's it called.
20100430 21:29:28< sevis> Either "dock" or "tray".
20100430 21:29:44< Unnheulu> Drag 'n' drop?
20100430 21:30:10< sevis> But, Gambit... Weren't you a Pidgin user? O.o
20100430 21:30:16< Gambit> On windows
20100430 21:30:23< Gambit> I'm on ubuntu right now.
20100430 21:30:29< sevis> Why switch away from that on Ubuntu?
20100430 21:30:30< Gambit> I figured I'd try xchat.
20100430 21:30:36< sevis> Hm, okay.
20100430 21:30:37< Gambit> Just to try something new.
20100430 21:31:03< Gambit> Xchat has an option for enabling the system tray icon
20100430 21:31:08< Gambit> But I appear to not have a system tray
20100430 21:31:14< miso_home> Gambit: yes, you're right
20100430 21:31:17< Unnheulu> Top right
20100430 21:31:36< Gambit> Unnheulu, Here's the thing... when I got ubuntu I redid all the panels completely.
20100430 21:31:50< miso_home> Gambit: thank you
20100430 21:31:50< Gambit> I guess I never put that thing back :#
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20100430 21:32:05< Unnheulu> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8653872.stm
20100430 21:32:11< Unnheulu> Can you watch that video?
20100430 21:32:20< Unnheulu> Or does the BBC disallow it?
20100430 21:33:49< Blarumyrran> I see people running back and forth
20100430 21:33:52< Blarumyrran> not much else
20100430 21:34:02< Unnheulu> Ok
20100430 21:34:15< Unnheulu> That's some teacher smashing a kid with a dumbbell
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20100430 21:41:34< zookeeper> hi bob
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20100430 21:43:33< Bob_The_Mighty> hello zookeeper 
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20100430 21:44:34< zookeeper> Bob_The_Mighty, i hear you're working on a new project ;)
20100430 21:45:10< Bob_The_Mighty> yes, jb and i have started on a campaign
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20100430 21:46:56< Bob_The_Mighty> anyone else having problems with the lobby PMs?
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20100430 21:47:03< zookeeper> cool. are you going for linear or something more free-form?
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20100430 21:47:44< Guest64775> Grrr
20100430 21:47:55< Guest64775> xchat-Gnome is even worse.
20100430 21:48:08< Guest64775> pidgin time. :)
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20100430 21:48:14< Bob_The_Mighty> it is semi-linear
20100430 21:53:28< zookeeper> i see
20100430 21:54:06< Blarumyrran> as in "Slay muff-malal or visit some island"?
20100430 21:54:17< zookeeper> well, get back to work on it then :P
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20100430 21:58:21< Gambit1> That's right *thats* why I use windows..
20100430 21:58:43< Blarumyrran> because you fail at linux? :P
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20100430 21:58:53< Gambit1> Yeah something like that :P
20100430 21:58:57< sevis> Because Ubuntu fails to set reasonable defaults? :P
20100430 21:59:23-!- Gambit1 is now known as Gambit
20100430 21:59:33< Gambit> Maybe that too.
20100430 21:59:51< Gambit> xchat was kind of cool though. I might get try it on windows here.
20100430 22:00:00< sevis> I found the dock problem quite a pain, too, when I used it -- fortunately, KDE does it better.
20100430 22:00:09< Gambit> Something about programs with transparent backgrounds is really sexy
20100430 22:00:17< sevis> (or properly, anyway, in Windows-like way).
20100430 22:00:36< sevis> Do you have Ubuntu installed, or on a LiveCD?
20100430 22:00:47< Gambit> wow xchat is not free on windows
20100430 22:00:54< Gambit> Discrimination much :s
20100430 22:01:01< Gambit> sevis: I installed it through wubi.
20100430 22:01:09< Gambit> on my desktop and laptop.
20100430 22:01:12< sevis> Hmm. Did you customize it much?
20100430 22:01:14< Gambit> Though the laptop is running xubuntu.
20100430 22:01:20< Gambit> sevis: I can't do jack on it :(
20100430 22:01:30< Gambit> The one time I ran updates and it refused to boot afterwords.
20100430 22:01:36< sevis> Because I think you'd get quite a bit further if you dropped Gnome.
20100430 22:01:38< Blarumyrran> Gambit, there is a free binary of it for windows, I'm using that
20100430 22:01:45< Blarumyrran> (just not the official one)
20100430 22:01:58< sevis> Eh, yeah, updates can be a pain.
20100430 22:02:31< Gambit> I had to completely reinstall after that.
20100430 22:03:09< sevis> That's usually a quick solution, yes. If you find yourself doing it often, put /home on a different partition, then keep it between installs.
20100430 22:04:05< Gambit> Well my solution was to just leave everything out dated XD
20100430 22:04:14< Gambit> If the linux fans are right, there aren't any security updates.
20100430 22:04:45< Gambit> How would I "drop gnome" though?
20100430 22:04:51< Gambit> Isn't that the desktop manager?
20100430 22:05:15< sevis> Desktop Environment, yes. I mean switch to something more Windows-like, such as KDE.
20100430 22:05:19 * Gambit thinks that was actually what broke in the aforementioned failure update.
20100430 22:05:55< sevis> I found the graphical configuration tools of KDE and general way of organising somewhat easier.
20100430 22:07:08< sevis> You could either install the kubuntu-desktop package or get rid of the old install and get KUbuntu.
20100430 22:08:49< Gambit> Yeah; there's nothing on the old install. I think I'll try that.
20100430 22:09:51< sevis> Good luck, hope you like it.
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20100430 22:10:16 * Gambit thinks he remembers seeing kubuntu on wubi's list.
20100430 22:10:42< sevis> Yep, should be there.
20100430 22:12:18< Gambit> sevis: thanks. Now I just have to wait for it to download.
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20100430 22:12:53 * Gambit wonders if there is some way to run it virtually.
20100430 22:13:04< sevis> You'd want VirtualBox for that.
20100430 22:14:01< sevis> You want something like this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Seamless.png
20100430 22:15:15< Gambit> just a way to have it open without having to reboot all the time.
20100430 22:15:18< Gambit> Yeah that looks neat.
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20100430 22:16:48< sevis> That's pretty much the default KDE theme, by the way.
20100430 22:17:17< Gambit> So how does that work?
20100430 22:17:27< Gambit> No partioning or anything?
20100430 22:18:06< sevis> You have a program that emulates hardware. The OS you are running becomes the host OS, and a second guest OS runs within that program.
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20100430 22:18:18< sevis> There's usually no partitioning needed, the disk image is a file.
20100430 22:20:39< Gambit> So then what do I download to run kubuntu in that?
20100430 22:21:00< Gambit> The iso that one would normally use to install it?
20100430 22:21:26< sevis> Yes, plus the VirtualBox installer.
20100430 22:22:07< sevis> I've not used it for some time, but you should have some option to mount the ISO on the guest machine and boot from it.
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--- Log closed Sat May 01 00:00:29 2010