--- Log opened Mon May 03 00:00:16 2010
--- Day changed Mon May 03 2010
20100503 00:00:16< rigved> i do not have 40 hrs to spend per week on this, but i could spend about 10-20 hrs per week
20100503 00:00:20< rigved> is this fine?
20100503 00:00:40< rigved> this is the reason i did not persue it in GSoC
20100503 00:01:03< Crab_> yes, this is fine - I think that this is enough to complete the 'main' part of the project, leaving various optional things in the backlog.
20100503 00:01:32< Crab_> (but yes, you're right, that's usually not enough for a full-scale gsoc)
20100503 00:03:16< rigved> ok...so i'll do some homework...i'll go through the files you had asked me to go through...get familiar with lua....
20100503 00:03:25< rigved> n now that i have linux installed, i can compile the src also
20100503 00:03:42< Crab_> rigved: that's good that you have a way to compile.
20100503 00:04:56< rigved> i saw that a new version of wesnoth is available
20100503 00:05:11< rigved> should i still look through these files:
20100503 00:05:19< rigved> src/scripting/lua.cpp
20100503 00:05:21< rigved> src/ai/composite/engine_lua.cpp
20100503 00:05:23< rigved> data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg
20100503 00:05:25< rigved> data/ai/lua/stdlib.lua
20100503 00:05:37< rigved> or have there been any changes?
20100503 00:06:00< Crab_> rigved: a few days ago, I've split off a part of src/scripting/lua.cpp to src/ai/lua/core.cpp
20100503 00:06:29< rigved> ok
20100503 00:06:34< Crab_> rigved: that is to separate c++ lua 'ai support' code from c++ lua 'generic' code.
20100503 00:06:46< rigved> so i'll look through that file also
20100503 00:07:26< Crab_> yes. the first thing to do is to find out 'what is here already?' and to set up a test area, to allow easier testing of the new code.
20100503 00:08:00< rigved> test area?
20100503 00:08:04< rigved> using svn?
20100503 00:08:24< Crab_> rigved: just a way to test the code, test your/my changes.
20100503 00:08:35< rigved> ok
20100503 00:08:36< Crab_> rigved: for example, we can cleanup  data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg and use it
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20100503 00:29:35< Crab_> Upthorn: around ?
20100503 00:30:02< Upth> I am
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20100503 00:30:20< Upthorn> *ahem* I am.
20100503 00:30:56< Crab_> Upthorn: any new questions so far ?
20100503 00:31:33< Upthorn> I've been busy with school work since we last spoke and am just getting back to the project
20100503 00:32:01< Upthorn> finally getting that merge done, and other things people have talked about with me since
20100503 00:32:13< Upthorn> so I haven't got any new questions yet
20100503 00:32:17< Crab_> Upthorn: ok, there's several weeks before the actual project start, so, no hurry. 
20100503 00:33:12< Crab_> Upthorn: 'merge back to trunk' and 'update the timeline in the wiki' are probably the only two required things I expect you to do before the 'project start date'
20100503 00:33:34< Crab_> also, I've wanted to say that I'll be unavailable from 7th to 14th of May (I'll be visiting Finland)
20100503 00:34:13< Crab_> so, if you'd have time, do some investigations and plan ahead :)
20100503 00:36:06< billynux> Crab_, what is the best way (in your opinion) to keep a log regarding GSoC's work? (wiki page?)
20100503 00:36:28< Crab_> billynux: a commit log :-P
20100503 00:37:30< Crab_> billynux: but, if there's a lot of work which involves planning/design, which is hard to 'commit', it's better to use some kind of dependency map
20100503 00:38:02< billynux> ?
20100503 00:38:32< Crab_> billynux: e.g., a plan "ok, I need to do A,B,C; to do A I need things D and E done; for E, i need  F and G, ...; with dates attached to things which are done. e.g. F: done 2010.05.12, <link to more info> "
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20100503 00:39:11< Crab_> billynux: so, a log of work which focuses on the 'work which is left to do', not on 'work which is done'.
20100503 00:39:27< billynux> ok Crab_, I see your point...
20100503 00:40:11< Crab_> it's main advantage is the ease of answering the "why I'm doing this?" question.
20100503 00:41:28< billynux> Crab_: I agree that it would be very useful. I just don't want to spend too much time on it (i.e. time best spent on the project itself)
20100503 00:41:55< Crab_> well, text format on a wiki page is usually enough
20100503 00:42:19< billynux> Crab_: However, part of carrying out a good project (be it short or long) is thoroughly documenting progress and status....
20100503 00:43:17< Crab_> yes, so there's need to balance things out. For example, wiki text is quite easy to organize into tables, which show things quite nicely.
20100503 00:44:07< Crab_> for example, a table can show your 'backlog' - things that are left to do in the current part of the project.
20100503 00:44:53< Crab_> and it can indicate your progress on those items and their brief status and estimated completion dates (if those things are started already and it's possible to give an estimate)
20100503 00:45:31< billynux> Crab_: I'm looking into http://www.gnowledge.org/tutorial . Maybe even some Dia diagram...
20100503 00:46:22< Crab_> yes, those things are very good for visualization of the 'project status'
20100503 00:47:08< Crab_> especially if a project is non-linear (e.g., where you can do multiple things in parallel and be blocked on some waiting for some external events)
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20100503 00:50:56< billynux> Crab_,  yes, I was thinking something like Node = {some abstract work} Arrow <= Node x Node = {is a prerequisite of} status : Node -> (not-started, started, mostly-done, finished)
20100503 00:51:34< Crab_> yes (plus text - several words of descriptions)
20100503 00:52:28< Crab_> (plus deadlines on 'milestone' nodes)
20100503 00:52:48< Crab_> (those can just be part of text description)
20100503 00:53:06< billynux> ok Crab_, I just hope it doesn't take too long. Thats the downside of being obsessive about detail! (e.g. while writing LaTeX)
20100503 00:53:23< Crab_> well, no need to make it long. it has to be short.
20100503 00:54:26< Crab_> e.g., it doesn't contain documentation about 'what needs to be done', it just references those things, which are presumed to be known to those reading it.
20100503 00:55:32< billynux> Crab_, so what did you mean with "plus text - several words of descriptions"
20100503 00:55:35< billynux> ?
20100503 00:55:54< CIA-10> upthorn * r42443 /trunk/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Merge persistence branch back into trunk as per Crab's instruction.
20100503 00:56:01< Crab_> Upthorn: thanks
20100503 00:56:18< Upthorn> (no modification to 1_tutorial.cfg in that commit)
20100503 00:56:23< Crab_> Aethaeryn, Gambit ^
20100503 00:56:43< Gambit> Neat.
20100503 00:56:57< Gambit> I'll update later.
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20100503 00:58:18< Crab_> billynux: for example, a part of the project might be described as 'Implementing the API using boost::asio.' -  those are the 'several words of description' I've talked about.
20100503 00:58:31< Crab_> Gambit: thanks.
20100503 00:58:35< billynux> ok
20100503 00:59:10< Crab_> billynux: basically, a good thing to do is, at the start of the day, to set a goal 'for the day' and work towards it.
20100503 00:59:12< Aethaeryn> w00t
20100503 00:59:18< Aethaeryn> I will run update once I'm done my really long game
20100503 00:59:21< Aethaeryn> just to play around with it
20100503 00:59:46< Crab_> Aethaeryn: no hurry to do so, but it would be really nice if you take a look at it and try to use it
20100503 00:59:52< Upthorn> what's the wiki template for "this is a feature that is currently under construction"?
20100503 01:00:07< Aethaeryn> yeah, my semester has 2 weeks left
20100503 01:00:16< Crab_> Upthorn: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Template:DevFeature1.9
20100503 01:00:22< billynux> Crab_, yes, agile processes...
20100503 01:00:25< Upthorn> thanks.
20100503 01:00:25< Aethaeryn> after finals I can try out Era of Tyrants with this persistant stuff, as well as maybe even Thunderstone Supremacy
20100503 01:01:03< Crab_> billynux: and, you can just add that 'a goal for a day' to your map of things, at the same time as you set it, at the start of the day
20100503 01:01:19< Crab_> billynux: then, gradually, you'll have a nice scheme of things that you've done and their purpose
20100503 01:03:25< billynux> ok Crab_, thanks, I'll develop something like that, trying to not spend *too* much time on it. But leaving it as something clear and useful about what I'm doing
20100503 01:04:08< Crab_> well, just don't spend a lot of time on in 'in advance' - just figure out a process which works for you and stick to it
20100503 01:04:32< Crab_> and, after all, you'll have to figure out 'what I'm going to do today?' anyway :)
20100503 01:04:48< Crab_> so, it's not too much overhead to write it down :)
20100503 01:05:12< Crab_> (if you do it at the same time as you figure it out, while you've in context of it)
20100503 01:05:48< Crab_> e.g., it would be really hard for you to say, for example, 'what you'll be doing on 14th june'. but, 'what you'll be going to do today?' is easier  :)
20100503 01:10:48< billynux> Crab_: Today: DON'T PANIC! :)
20100503 01:10:54< Crab_> :))
20100503 01:15:17< Crab_> night for me )
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20100503 01:49:39< Upthorn> hrm, is it possible to insert the current date using wiki markup?
20100503 01:50:09< Upthorn> specifically I want monthnameYYYY, e.g. may2010
20100503 01:50:59-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.1 released, announcing "soon" | 100 bugs, 276 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100503 01:52:27< stikonas> does anybody have problems compiling trunk?
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20100503 02:03:37< Espreon> stikonas: No, why?
20100503 02:03:49< Espreon> Well, hold on, actually...
20100503 02:03:58< stikonas> persist_context.cpp.o doesn't compile
20100503 02:04:17< loonycyborg> I'm about to fix that warning
20100503 02:04:17< Espreon> Lemme svn up and try to compile; Upthorn's persistence branch was recently merged.
20100503 02:04:39< stikonas> yeah, it is obvious from the commit log
20100503 02:04:52< stikonas> which commit causes the problems
20100503 02:04:54< Upthorn> That's... odd.
20100503 02:05:55< Upthorn> is there an error message?
20100503 02:06:00< stikonas> Upthorn: some gcc versions are strictier then the others
20100503 02:06:16< billynux> Upthorn, pedantic compilers don't like attributes to be initialized out of order
20100503 02:06:26< stikonas> http://paste.debian.net/71744/
20100503 02:06:49< loonycyborg> stikonas: svn up. It's fixed
20100503 02:07:06 * loonycyborg kicks CIA-10
20100503 02:07:17< billynux> Upthorn, do a man gcc and check -Weffc++ flag
20100503 02:07:21< Upthorn> I'm working on windows
20100503 02:07:23< CIA-10> ow
20100503 02:07:42< CIA-10> loonycyborg * r42444 /trunk/src/persist_context.hpp: Fixed a compile warning
20100503 02:07:51< Upthorn> I had no idea that gcc could be so ridiculously pedantic
20100503 02:08:27< billynux> :)
20100503 02:09:01< loonycyborg> That's not ridiculous. Data members will be constructed in order they're in class definition, not in constructor implementation.
20100503 02:09:26< billynux> Upthorn, there is a reason for it: Check Scott Meyers’ Effective C++ book
20100503 02:09:45< Upthorn> I do not have that book.
20100503 02:10:10< billynux> Upthorn, ok, do a man gcc and look for -Weffc++ flag, its explained there
20100503 02:10:22< Upthorn> ... I am working on windows.
20100503 02:10:28< billynux> bummer :(
20100503 02:10:37< billynux> You can always read the online doc
20100503 02:11:17< Upthorn> loonycyborg: I'd never heard that before, is that part of the language spec or is it compiler-determined?
20100503 02:11:36< loonycyborg> That's part of the language spec
20100503 02:11:57< Upthorn> I do not understand the purpose that serves, but I will keep it in mind in the future.
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20100503 02:13:19< billynux> Upthorn, http://www.phpman.info/index.php/info/gcc and search -Weffc++
20100503 02:15:09< billynux> Most compilers relax language specs, e.g. ANSI C doesn't allow for(int i = 0 ; ... One must do int i; for(i = 0; ...
20100503 02:16:02< Upthorn> yeah, in ANSI C all the variable declarations have to be at the beginning of scope.
20100503 02:16:48< Upthorn> Having learned C++ first, that tripped me up the first time I tried to work in C
20100503 02:16:51< billynux> Upthorn, actually, the option you were looking for is -Wreorder, which is enabled by -Wall
20100503 02:28:12 * loonycyborg produces relevant link using Black Magic: http://www.userhelpguides.com/EffectiveC++&MoreEffectiveC++/Ec/EI12.HTM
20100503 02:29:39< billynux> nice loonycyborg :)
20100503 02:29:48< billynux> I'm off, bye everybody
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20100503 02:30:03< loonycyborg> Actually that's close but not it..
20100503 02:33:08< loonycyborg> http://www.userhelpguides.com/EffectiveC++&MoreEffectiveC++/Ec/EI13.HTM
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20100503 03:00:15< Upthorn> that does clarify
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20100503 03:17:39< shadowmaster> fendrin: around?
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20100503 04:56:14< foxoon> ..............
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20100503 06:30:37< CIA-10> eleazar * r42445 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): made encampment use normal dirt rather than a custom dirt base. Also re-ordered terrains in the editor a little.
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20100503 06:46:42< CIA-10> eleazar * r42446 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/castle/winter-orcish/ (keep-tile.png tile.png): fixed editor icons for orcish snow castle so it actually had snow.
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20100503 07:18:20< FAAB> shadowmaster: are you there ?
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20100503 09:48:17< Ivanovic> moin
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20100503 10:09:37-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 100 bugs, 276 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100503 11:20:32< FAAB> what is the scope of a macro defined in a add-on ?
20100503 11:21:21< FAAB> is it limited to the current add-on or is the macro known to all add-ons ?
20100503 11:22:15< FAAB> it seems to me that is the former but I can't find the code that could serve as evidence
20100503 11:22:36< Crab_> FAAB: just test it out.
20100503 11:22:51< zookeeper> they're not limited in any way
20100503 11:23:40< FAAB> yeah, I did a test that leads me to think it is limited to the add-on, 
20100503 11:25:19< FAAB> but as everyone put long prefix in their macros' name, I somehow feel that it could have conflict in some circumstances
20100503 11:25:34< zookeeper> macros are only available after the point at which they're defined, so the preprocessing order does matter
20100503 11:25:56< FAAB> zookeeper: do you mean I can call in my add-on a macro defined by another add-on ?
20100503 11:26:10< zookeeper> yes, if that other add-on is preprocessed before your add-on
20100503 11:26:39< zookeeper> so basically, if you want to use stuff from another add-on, you first include that file containing the macro defs in your add-on and then use them
20100503 11:27:07< FAAB> understood, but somehow that doesn't match with my observations, so I am bit confused :S
20100503 11:27:51< FAAB> zookeeper: sure but how to be sure the add-on is installed ?
20100503 11:29:56< FAAB> the umc dev team push a solution where all add-ons define a ME_ADDON_INSTALLED macro in a detect.cfg file, but I fail at using that macro in another add-on
20100503 11:30:32< Crab_> FAAB: you can try to test for it using https://gna.org/patch/?1590
20100503 11:31:02< FAAB> just including {~addons/me_addon/detect.cfg} will break at startup if the addon is not installed
20100503 11:32:03< Crab_> then, '#ifdef ~addons/me_addon/detect.cfg' should work
20100503 11:32:20< Crab_> or even '#ifdef ~addons/me_addon'
20100503 11:32:50< FAAB> wow that sounds good
20100503 11:33:13< Crab_> (note that it went in on 17th april, so it is 1.9 only)
20100503 11:33:19 * FAAB is trying now
20100503 11:33:45< Crab_> (but, {~addons/me_addon/detect.cfg}, shouldn't break on 1.8)
20100503 11:39:30< FAAB> Crab_: thanks a lot that is exactly what I needed !
20100503 11:39:48< Crab_> great :)
20100503 11:40:37< Crab_> FAAB: btw, note that a SP prototype of persistent WML variables went into trunk today (done by Upthorn), http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PersistenceWML
20100503 11:40:51< Crab_> FAAB: if you're working with trunk, you're welcome to try it out
20100503 11:42:22< Crab_> example usage : http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/branches/upthorn_persistence/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/1_Tutorial.cfg?rev=42149&view=markup
20100503 11:43:03< Crab_> (or as a diff http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/branches/upthorn_persistence/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/1_Tutorial.cfg?rev=42149&r1=42148&r2=42149 )
20100503 11:43:27< FAAB> that is another great stuff !
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20100503 12:25:52< zookeeper> Crab_, wait, what, those kind of #ifdef's actually work?
20100503 12:25:56< zookeeper> nice
20100503 12:26:16< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, silene committed a patch by firedrake, which enables that
20100503 12:27:21< Crab_> zookeeper: it has a not-so-nice side effect (#ifdef MULTIPLAYER might return true if there is a 'multiplayer' directory in current directory), so the syntax might change a little.
20100503 12:28:24< Crab_> zookeeper: but, overall, it's here because the former feature of including a non-existent file to check if it's present, no longer works.
20100503 12:28:56< zookeeper> actually i'd be inclined to suggest a new #iffile (or some other name...) for checking if a given file exists, instead of overloading #ifdef
20100503 12:29:06< Crab_> I was thinking about #ifhave
20100503 12:29:24< Crab_> e.g.  #ifhave ~addons/me_addon
20100503 12:33:19< zookeeper> sounds good to me
20100503 12:33:42< Crab_> I'll ask silene when he'll return.
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20100503 14:04:08< shadowmaster> Soliton: I guess you might want to check this: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=29842
20100503 14:09:48 * shadowmaster pokes fendrin 
20100503 14:09:59< fendrin> shadowmaster: ho
20100503 14:10:13< shadowmaster> so, what's up with that music track?
20100503 14:10:26< shadowmaster> I saw you committed to the 1.8 branch and not to trunk?
20100503 14:10:57< fendrin> shadowmaster: Yes, my time was up yesterday. It is still on my todo maybe this evening.
20100503 14:11:16< shadowmaster> okay...does Ivanovic approve of the increased xdelta size for 1.8.2?
20100503 14:11:50< shadowmaster> I'm not very sure about updating music files in stable versions, although I admit that I like it
20100503 14:12:07< fendrin> shadowmaster: Ivanovic suggested the commit to 1.8.
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20100503 14:19:07< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: honestly, who cares about the xdelta?
20100503 14:19:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: the amount of downloads for the xdelta is really tiny
20100503 14:21:14< shadowmaster> I remember you complaining when I first applied a wesnoth-optipng patch with resulted in an increased xdelta size :)
20100503 14:22:03< zookeeper> i wish i could get just the 1.8.1 .exe somewhere, since i usually have to download each stable release installer just so i can drop the .exe into my stable checkout dir...
20100503 14:22:36< Ivanovic> zookeeper: IIRC there are daily builds for windows of at least trunk
20100503 14:22:52< Ivanovic> maybe ask loonycyborg to also create those for the current stable series?
20100503 14:23:17< shadowmaster> a "micro" package with just the installer and DLLs doesn't sound like a bad idea to me
20100503 14:23:26< shadowmaster> er, the installer with the executables and DLLs
20100503 14:24:59< loonycyborg> Perhaps I'd better make a checkout of 1.8 branch and compile an 1.8 binary there.
20100503 14:25:05< shadowmaster> the 1.8 data files should be compatible with i.e. the 1.8.9 client (otherwise our mission has failed), and it can be useful to download a newer client with fixed bugs etc, which should be less than 16 MB
20100503 14:25:14< shadowmaster> compared to the > 200 MB full installer...
20100503 14:34:05< freim> is it possible to make scons completely skip all the po-stuff?
20100503 14:34:19< loonycyborg> nls=false
20100503 14:34:24< freim> it uses so much time on that (for me) useless step
20100503 14:34:47< shadowmaster> good idea, I should disable it
20100503 14:35:13< shadowmaster> I had it originally disabled, enabled it when I became translation maintainer, and then forgot to disable it again
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20100503 15:25:55< shadowmaster> ha, ha, why is "Better fix for bug #14765 now that string freeze is off
20100503 15:25:59< shadowmaster> " in the changelog?
20100503 15:26:05< shadowmaster> for 1.8, that is
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20100503 15:49:29< Soliton> shadowmaster: replied.
20100503 15:51:15< shadowmaster> k
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20100503 16:17:42< CIA-10> eleazar * r42447 /trunk/ (53 files in 3 dirs): adding new dark dirt terrain based on regular dirt, and slightly tweaking the color of regular dirt.
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20100503 18:36:08< norbert_> Crab_, I uploaded some code here http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29840
20100503 18:36:20< Crab_> will take a look...
20100503 18:36:28< norbert_> I'm currently running into 2 problems, which I'll have to fix before it is usable
20100503 18:36:43< norbert_> with non-registered users, it already works with a wesnothd at localhost
20100503 18:37:05< norbert_> with registered users, for some reason, the hash my code is creating is incorrect
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20100503 18:37:35< norbert_> I've been looking into it for hours, and felt I needed a break, so I'll focus on other (PHP) code for now
20100503 18:38:56< norbert_> have to go to the store now, bbl
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20100503 19:31:23< gabba> bonjour
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20100503 19:43:03< billynux> bonjour monsieur gabba, comment ça va?
20100503 19:43:24< gabba> hi billynux, ça va bien merci :D
20100503 19:43:39-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100503 19:43:44< billynux> de rien. How is work going? and hi Crab_ 
20100503 19:43:50< Crab_> hi, billynux
20100503 19:43:51< mordante> servus
20100503 19:43:55< Crab_> hi, mordante
20100503 19:43:56< billynux> and hi mordante
20100503 19:44:00< gabba> I'm joining the tradition of regional greetings :)
20100503 19:44:03< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20100503 19:44:04< gabba> hi mordante
20100503 19:44:09< mordante> hi billynux 
20100503 19:44:13< mordante> hi gabba 
20100503 19:45:07< billynux> mordante: I refactored the code to allow run(port) and changed start_X to set_X (do a 7up -> svn up)
20100503 19:45:13< gabba> billynux: I'm doing fine, thanks. How's your project going?
20100503 19:45:29< mordante> billynux, ok good
20100503 19:45:53< billynux> great, lot of work, but its very interesting!
20100503 19:47:55< billynux> mordante and Crab_ : I added a .png with some initial workflow: http://imagebin.org/95427 (gabba, you can give me some input on this too, your timeline for the GSoC application was very good)
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20100503 19:48:12< billynux> I will expand many of these items later on
20100503 19:50:06< Crab_> ok, looks good. is there a place where I can see WIP on the api ?
20100503 19:50:17< billynux> WIP?
20100503 19:50:21< Crab_> work-in-progress
20100503 19:50:31< mordante> billynux, are you familiar with dot?
20100503 19:51:08< billynux> Crab_: for now http://code.google.com/p/async-net-api/source/list is your best bet
20100503 19:51:25< billynux> mordante: yes and no, and what its about, how it is used, but never used it myself
20100503 19:52:14< mordante> billynux, regarding "Node = {some abstract work} Arrow <= Node x Node = {is a prerequisite of} status : Node ->" it a language to define diagrams
20100503 19:52:48< mordante> billynux, http://graphviz.org/
20100503 19:52:51< billynux> mordante: As I recall you can't do layout modifications on dot, but there are many options
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20100503 19:53:33< mordante> it's indeed quite hard with dot
20100503 19:53:51< billynux> yes, and the point was not using too much time on this
20100503 19:53:56< mordante> but looking at your imagebin you already found something
20100503 19:54:19< billynux> just having something that allows you guys to check on the WIP and global workflow
20100503 19:54:36< billynux> mordante: Yes, I use Dia
20100503 19:54:38< mordante> well dot works fast only get different output and not so `fixed' as with dia
20100503 19:55:11< mordante> and I agree you shouldn't work 10 hours per week on bookkeeping ;-)
20100503 19:55:19< billynux> I prefer .dot for automatically generated stuff (e.g. class diagrams from doxygen, etc...)
20100503 19:55:47< mordante> yup I use it for a overview in dialogs when debugging
20100503 19:55:59< billynux> dia is flexible enough for this, and I already know my way around it. So, would you like me to add anything to it?
20100503 19:56:04< mordante> (the code can generate .dot files)
20100503 19:57:05< mordante> no I think the diagram is clear
20100503 19:57:25< billynux> mordante: good, I'll add detail to it as I move along 
20100503 19:58:12< billynux> mordante: changing subject, do you like the code changes? -> I pretty much have to start organizing things... and work on memory management and client deregistration
20100503 19:58:34< mordante> billynux, still catching up with the log, will look after that
20100503 19:59:24< gabba> billynux: took a look, looks fine to me but I don't know enough about the project to comment in detail
20100503 19:59:25< billynux> mordante: Ok, basically, changing the port parameter to run instead of creation and having setters for properties instead of the start_ methods was a big change
20100503 20:00:04< billynux> ok gabba, have you thought about how you will keep track of work / issues / schedules / etc... ?
20100503 20:01:35< gabba> billynux: not really, I'll add more structure as needed -- for the schedule I'm only gonna track if I'm early/late compared to my calendar for now
20100503 20:02:08< billynux> ok
20100503 20:02:46< gabba> billynux: Crab_'s and Ilor's proposal pages had some efficient means of tracking work, though, it's worth a look
20100503 20:03:31< Crab_> gabba: our way works if the number of deliverables is high (e.g., 20+)
20100503 20:03:42 * billynux rummages old GSoC ideas... any direct links around?
20100503 20:04:01< gabba> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab
20100503 20:04:19< gabba> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MP_Server_Ilor
20100503 20:04:27< billynux> thanks
20100503 20:05:45< gabba> Crab_: right. of course you can always reach 20 by splitting in sub-deliverables and sub-sub-deli... well you see what I mean :)
20100503 20:06:06< Crab_> gabba: yes, this will work for you.
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20100503 20:08:32< gabba> Crab_: maybe we should finish the discussion about moveover event, before we've totally forgotten what it was about
20100503 20:09:32< Crab_> ok
20100503 20:09:38< Crab_> so, the question was...
20100503 20:09:58< Crab_> 20100430 01:00:41< Crab_> gabba: so, returning to  "well, I guess that if the move isn't interrupted we can assume that planned moves are not affected..."
20100503 20:10:07< Crab_> 20100430 01:02:38< Crab_> gabba: and the question is: should we ask the game engine to return control to us prematurely in those cases, if the new situation interferes with our planning ? 
20100503 20:10:55< Crab_> where 'those cases' refers to situation where our move is not interrupted, but the game state changes and some of our other moves might be not a good thing to do
20100503 20:11:00< Crab_> consider a situation:
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20100503 20:11:14< Crab_> we have 20 units, we set up planned moves for all of them
20100503 20:11:24< Crab_> we hit 'execute all'
20100503 20:11:57< Crab_> our first move triggers a moveover event
20100503 20:12:12< Crab_> if the move is interrupted by that event, all is clear for us.
20100503 20:12:27< gabba> Crab_: following
20100503 20:12:37< Crab_> but, what if move is not interrupted - in what circumstance we should continue with our 'execute all' routine ?
20100503 20:14:27< Crab_> there are options (not all) 1) always interrupt   2) interrupt if the event is marked as nonundoable  3) interrupt if one of our future planned moves becomes invalid 4) never interrupt
20100503 20:14:55< gabba> Crab_: I thought we were checking for conflicts after each move, whether it's part of execute all or not, actually
20100503 20:15:35< Crab_> if we have moves A,B,C,D,E,    it's ok to execute A even if B,C,D,E are in hard conflict, if A is valid.
20100503 20:15:39< mordante> billynux, regarding the ChatClient the input_thread_ is only used in run so doesn't need to be a member function
20100503 20:15:55< Crab_> gabba: so, we are checking for conflicts, yes. 
20100503 20:16:25< mordante> billynux, also it would be better to use an std::auto_ptr since that automatically frees the the pointer, and in this case you don't need a pointer at all 
20100503 20:16:33< billynux> mordante: true
20100503 20:17:12< Crab_> 1: ( always interrupt ) is not good, we'll interrupt even in cases where the wml event only sets a variable with no visible effect and the player will wonder 'why my movement is interrupted?'
20100503 20:17:31< billynux> mordante: I'm reviewing the things we discussed about mem. management before. The important thing now is not concentrating on the chat app but the API implementation
20100503 20:18:12< mordante> agreed, looking at the rest of the code at the moment
20100503 20:18:15< billynux> mordante: You are right about that thread. But what I want done soon is 1. fix client deregistration memory lak
20100503 20:18:16< Crab_> 4: ( never interrupt ) is not good since the player might be vary of using execute_all if it runs-to-completion even if new threats (say, new visible enemy units) appear, and that's not good.
20100503 20:18:27< billynux> s/lak/leak
20100503 20:18:52< gabba> Crab_: wait, I'm not following you anymore
20100503 20:18:54< billynux> mordante: and, 2. implement the destructor methods properly
20100503 20:19:09< Crab_> gabba: ok, another scenario, then
20100503 20:19:37-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100503 20:19:58< gabba> Crab_: the workflow I had in mind was 1. Execute one action 2. Whatever happens during the action is not our business until it's interrupted/finished *by the game engine* 3. Check all actions for (at least) hard conflicts 4. Interrupt "execute all" if any new hard conflict was created, otherwise continue "execute all"
20100503 20:20:15-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100503 20:20:18< Crab_> gabba: what about : 20 friendly units, we set their planned actions and hit "execute all", on moveover/moveto event of the first unit,  Five new enemy units are spawned *in visibility* of our units (but not preventing any of our planned moves). 
20100503 20:20:40< Crab_> gabba: a player will definitely want to replan when he'll see those new enemies.
20100503 20:20:47< gabba> Crab_: ok, you've got a point with the apparition of new threats though
20100503 20:21:29< Crab_> that's why solutions #3 and #4 are not always good.
20100503 20:21:42< gabba> Crab_: that means we'll have to add more checks than just hard/soft conflicts I guess...
20100503 20:21:48< Crab_> #3 is 'Interrupt "execute all" if any new hard conflict was created, otherwise continue'
20100503 20:22:03< Crab_> what do you think about proposed solution #2 ?
20100503 20:22:13< Crab_> (if the event is marked as undoable, go on, otherwise - stop )
20100503 20:22:26< gabba> Crab_: or, give some homework to the wml authors, and force them to add a parameter that says whether the player should be alerted to changes or not... 
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20100503 20:23:31< gabba> "2) interrupt if the event is marked as nonundoable" ... hmm
20100503 20:23:33< zookeeper> btw, scenario designers should get the ability to specify that in any case.
20100503 20:23:55< gabba> zookeeper: it would make sense
20100503 20:24:07< zookeeper> i bet you can't cover for all use cases (even all the current ones) with any single hardcoded solution
20100503 20:24:20< Crab_> zookeeper: no, not always, 'always interrupt if at least something user-visible changes'  is a perfect policy which cannot be affected by scenario editors.
20100503 20:24:35< Crab_> zookeeper: e.g., a player can do a move, recheck all visible enemies, their stats, etc
20100503 20:24:47< gabba> Crab_: the problem is : what if my meta-goal of replacing undo gets done after all?
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20100503 20:25:48< Crab_> gabba, zookeeper: what we can do is to allow the player to use 'execute all' more carelessly, knowing that things will stop if something unexpected happen
20100503 20:26:03< zookeeper> Crab_, what if you're playing a scenario which uses user-visible changes to implement something like a gauge/counter or just some other purely visual effect using spawned units or such?
20100503 20:26:27< Crab_> zookeeper: even a text message can cause player to rethink
20100503 20:26:27< mordante> billynux, regarding the client_proxy class, wouldn't it be a good idea to make the class noncopyable and make id_ a const member variable?
20100503 20:26:47< gabba> Crab_, zookeeper: maybe it could work the other way around: the "moveover" wml event interrupts execute all *by default*, except if it has a special tag that marks it as invisible to the player?
20100503 20:27:07< zookeeper> Crab_, sure, but the scenario designer should still be the one to decide whether an event is something that might cause the player to want to stop and rethink
20100503 20:27:29< billynux> mordante: yes, both
20100503 20:28:17< gabba> I think it's safer to assume that the player will have to rethink, unless the scenario designer guarantees the change is supposed to be kept secret.
20100503 20:28:27< Crab_> gabba: yes, I agree
20100503 20:28:32< gabba> or is trivial
20100503 20:28:49< zookeeper> gabba, yes, that's a good default
20100503 20:29:09< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, but the player can respond with 'doing 1 move at a time, slowly', which we don't want to happen.
20100503 20:29:25< Crab_> zookeeper: so yes, if a scenario designer says 'it'll be a secret', then, yes.
20100503 20:29:35< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, but if that happens then it's the scenario designer's fault
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20100503 20:30:07< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, that's why it's better to make them actually do something (e.g., change the interrupt flag to non-default value) to be faulty.
20100503 20:30:20< gabba> Crab_, zookeeper: ok we seem to agree then :) , that'll be something to keep in mind when moveovers are implemented
20100503 20:30:26< zookeeper> but yes, of course i wouldn't suggest that the default should be anything other than interruption unless otherwise specified
20100503 20:30:41< Crab_> gabba: it's not related to just moveovers. same thing with moveto.
20100503 20:30:52< gabba> who's working on those events btw?
20100503 20:30:58< mordante> billynux, ok have you already thought how to implement timeouts?
20100503 20:31:00< Crab_> gabba: it's just the fact that sighted and moveover will lead to 'trivial' events more often
20100503 20:31:22< Crab_> gabba: I collect bugs related to DSU and sighted event interaction :)
20100503 20:31:45< billynux> mordante: In my propostion I talked about a current timeout example using asio
20100503 20:31:45< Crab_> gabba: so, when the time will come to remove DSU, i'll try to make 'moveover/sighted' events work
20100503 20:31:46< zookeeper> anyway, i'm sure that events which should not cause interruption are going to be pretty rare
20100503 20:32:17< Crab_> zookeeper: 'set a wml var which will be used only on next turn' comes to mind
20100503 20:32:30< billynux> mordante: I haven't thought about the method's parameters and so on... but was thinking something like send_X( /* same parameters */ size_t seconds_to_timeout );
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20100503 20:33:10< gabba> Crab_: ok. btw I got an unhappy user in my feeback thread who wasn't happy with DSU removal, and thought my system would be heavy and time-consuming
20100503 20:33:13 * gabba grumbles
20100503 20:33:25< gabba> hopefully I'll prove him wrong
20100503 20:33:52< gabba> zookeeper: I agree, they should be pretty rare
20100503 20:33:54< billynux> mordante: the other part is deciding if I want a separate handler for timeout events, or having it handled in handle_send via the error_code ( will be changed from bool to boost::system::error_code as per our discussions)
20100503 20:34:25< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, or effects which really don't affect gameplay, like a moveover event which counts all your steps and displays a counter for that... :P
20100503 20:34:39< Crab_> zookeeper: hehe :)
20100503 20:35:19< Crab_> gabba: there will always be unhappy users. try to make your system lightweight enough :)
20100503 20:35:20< mordante> billynux, I think one generic error handling system is the best especially if you don't return the boost::asio::error directly
20100503 20:37:34< billynux> mordante: Ok inheriting from boost::noncopyable is enough (for client_proxy)? and... what do you mean by "generic error handling system"?
20100503 20:37:37< gabba> ok, so now I'm going back to my "multiple fake units" branch (/branches/gabba_ghosted_units)
20100503 20:38:25< CIA-10> mordante * r42448 /trunk/src/display.hpp: 
20100503 20:38:25< CIA-10> Make some members static.
20100503 20:38:25< CIA-10> Issue discovered by cppcheck.
20100503 20:38:28< CIA-10> mordante * r42449 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/gamestate_inspector.cpp: 
20100503 20:38:28< CIA-10> Make a member function a const member function.
20100503 20:38:28< CIA-10> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100503 20:38:32< CIA-10> mordante * r42450 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20100503 20:38:32< CIA-10> Make a member function a const member function.
20100503 20:38:32< CIA-10> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100503 20:38:35< CIA-10> mordante * r42451 /trunk/src/ (persist_context.cpp persist_var.cpp): Fix some compiler warnings.
20100503 20:38:52< mordante> billynux, that you return all errors in the same way regardless whether an asio error or a timeout
20100503 20:40:42< billynux> mordante: yes... encoded in the error parameter in the handler... boost::system::error_code is OS dependent (and not asio)... I can add my own error_codes in ana.hpp
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20100503 20:43:18< mordante> billynux, exactly so I think the timeout can also be added there, no special kind of error handling for it
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20100503 20:45:08< billynux> mordante: agreed (my thoughts as well)... ok, I'll work on that. adding a size_t to send events meaning seconds sounds good? timeouts for other operations as well is desired?
20100503 20:46:32< Crab_> billynux: well, all operations must timeout sooner or later, both send and receive.
20100503 20:47:02< billynux> mordante: For example... one would have to manually add code for reply timeouts... i.e. "send this; handle_send() { timer_ = now + N; // .... } //... handle_message() .. if now > timer_ then reply cae too late... etc..
20100503 20:47:05< mordante> personally I'm not too fond of size_t, since I expect the size of a container, I rather see a plain unsigned 
20100503 20:48:03< mordante> billynux, maybe we should make the timeout a member of the server so you don't need to add it to every send operation
20100503 20:49:03< billynux> mordante: "member of the server"?
20100503 20:49:47< mordante> member variable, not entirely sure whether it's a good idea
20100503 20:49:54< billynux> mordante: We can directly add support to ana for timeouts (regardless of network operations) ...
20100503 20:50:08< mordante> and maybe the proxy class
20100503 20:50:47< mordante> I think per server is better, downloading content from the MP server has a different timeout from downloading an addon
20100503 20:51:20< mordante> and for addons the timeout might depend on the size of the addon as well
20100503 20:51:31< mordante> some of them are several MB's 
20100503 20:51:34< mordante> MBs*
20100503 20:51:59< billynux> ok
20100503 20:53:15< mordante> did you already think about how to implement the timeouts in the code?
20100503 20:53:42< billynux> mordante: implement it, yes, pretty much. How would it look in the API, no
20100503 20:54:02< billynux> mordante: there are many options, many of the reasonable
20100503 20:54:31< billynux> mordante: for example : server_->start_timer( N , handler ); //returns a timer, that can be cancelled or will call the handler after N secs.  send_X( ... , N); // means timeout if send operation is not completed after N secs...
20100503 20:56:41< mordante> ok
20100503 20:58:36< mordante> I wonder whether the timeout should be really be a member of a class and be determined like base_timout + timeout_per_byte * bytes
20100503 20:59:01< mordante> where the user can tune the settings
20100503 20:59:27< mordante> I'll ponder it a bit more
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20100503 21:01:49< billynux> mordante: mm... me too. In the meantime, you can help me with the destructors and client deregistration
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20100503 21:03:01< mordante> billynux, I can try, what's the problem?
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20100503 21:03:39< billynux> mordante: RE deregistration, being a proxy and realizing the client on the other end has crashed/died/errored
20100503 21:07:12< billynux> mordante: check asio_server.cpp:183. I was thinking about adding an interface like clients_manager, make the server inherit from it and telling proxies who is their manager
20100503 21:07:40< mordante> the client can hold a pointer to the proxy and call a deregister upon destruction
20100503 21:09:00< mordante> the destructor would be the best place to do this kind of thing, you only need to decide on who owns who
20100503 21:10:21< mordante> if the proxy is destroyed it needs to destroy the listeners, but they should not call the proxy in that case
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20100503 21:14:19< billynux> mordante: ok, I read the last part I missed
20100503 21:15:22< billynux> mordante: the error would come from the listener... from that point on the client_proxy should be removed from the serverd and the object destroyed (the point is who makes that call)
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20100503 21:22:15< mordante> ok if the client has an error it should be removed from the server together with its proxy
20100503 21:22:39< mordante> so I think the client knows the error and informs the proxy and the proxy informs the server
20100503 21:23:16< mordante> after the notification to the proxy the client can die and the same for the proxy after the notification to the server
20100503 21:23:45< mordante> if the server has a problem (or stopping) it should notify all proxy, which in turn can notify the clients
20100503 21:23:52< mordante> how does that sound to you?
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20100503 21:27:17< mordante> gabba, just curious, when do you plan to work on new dialogs?
20100503 21:27:54< billynux> mordante: Forget about client notifying the proxy (someone can disconnect the cable). Think about it as 
20100503 21:28:07< billynux> "the proxy realizes the client is down/errored/whatever"
20100503 21:29:01< billynux> mordante: Idem for down server, the client figures out there has been an error (this already works)
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20100503 21:29:47< billynux> mordante: My point is: how should the proxy go about destroying itself and being removed from client_proxies_ in the server?
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20100503 21:30:15< CIA-10> eleazar * r42452 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): simplified WML for elvish tree.
20100503 21:30:24< CIA-10> mordante * r42453 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (grid.cpp grid.hpp): 
20100503 21:30:24< CIA-10> Move the delete to the proper destructor.
20100503 21:30:24< CIA-10> Don't let the parent class manage the widgets of the child, let the
20100503 21:30:24< CIA-10> child do it itself.
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20100503 21:31:13< billynux> mordante: As I said, design-wise, I can have an interface for client management, have the server inherit from it but keep methods private and then in the proxy have something like:
20100503 21:31:27< billynux>  my_manager_->queue_for_removal( this );
20100503 21:32:00< billynux> but there are a couple of things I don't like about that
20100503 21:32:55< gabba> mordante: rather late, actually. If I get to the network part, I'll need a dialogue to filter planned moves from allies, but I don't think I have anything dialog-related before that
20100503 21:36:29< mordante> billynux, I think it's either that or notify the server and wait for it to delete the proxy
20100503 21:38:25< mordante> gabba, ok can you give me a heads up when you're about to start on it. At the moment I'm rewriting some parts and things are a bit volatile at the moment
20100503 21:38:49< mordante> so like to coordinate it a bit, at least not trying to modify interfaces while you work on them
20100503 21:39:09< gabba> mordante: no problem, I'll give you a heads up
20100503 21:39:36< mordante> thanks, probably I can then also tell you which interface is to remain
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20100503 21:40:10< billynux> mordante: ok... I'll think it over a bit, to see if there is a clean design solution
20100503 21:40:21< gabba> billynux: I was wondering how high up in the stack your changes will have effects. For instance, is the body or interface of network::send_data() likely to be changed?
20100503 21:40:55< mordante> billynux, ok
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20100503 21:45:08< mordante> I'm off night
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20100503 21:45:56< Ivanovic> Crab_: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29845&start=0
20100503 21:46:33< Crab_> Ivanovic: thanks
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20100503 21:49:41< CIA-10> eleazar * r42454 /trunk/data/core/ (41 files in 3 dirs): removing redundant orcish castle dirt terrain, and fixing the snowy orc keep editor tile.
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20100503 21:56:12< Crab_> hi, timotei
20100503 21:56:37< timotei> hi Crab_
20100503 21:56:47< billynux> "20100503 21:40:21< gabba> billynux: I was wondering how high up in the stack your changes will have effects. For instance, is the body or interface of network::send_data() likely to be changed?"
20100503 21:57:07< billynux> gabba: no, I'll keep the current interface alive, but will reimplent the methods to use my lib
20100503 21:57:19< Crab_> timotei: I've taken a look at your patch about --preprocess
20100503 21:57:46< gabba> billynux: thanks, good to know - in any case, I won't touch the network until late in my project
20100503 21:58:12< billynux> O_O : you will *touch* the network? 
20100503 21:58:34< billynux> gabba: do you need new functionality? can't you use the current methods?
20100503 21:58:47< billynux> gabba: If you can, we won't overlap
20100503 21:59:04< gabba> billynux: misunderstanding: I'll use it, not touch it :)
20100503 21:59:20< billynux> good!
20100503 21:59:25< timotei> Crab_: yes
20100503 22:00:21< Crab_> timotei: it looks good as a prototype
20100503 22:00:34< timotei> Crab_: thanks
20100503 22:01:07< Crab_> timotei: there's a few small glitches in there, but it's minor and easy to fix
20100503 22:01:46< Crab_> the next steps about it are patching wmllint (ask esr for advice about it) to read the 'correct' line numbers from .plain file
20100503 22:02:06< timotei> Crab_: yes, I'm working on it
20100503 22:02:28< timotei> Crab_: I need to get a lil' bit familiar with python though before
20100503 22:02:31< Crab_> also, it might be a good idea to make --preprocess work with temporary files, not pollute the data directory (which might not be writable)
20100503 22:02:52< timotei> temporary files as in... current folder?
20100503 22:03:01< timotei> or in the temporary folder of the system?
20100503 22:07:19< Crab_> timotei: temporary means 'let the caller specify the filename'
20100503 22:07:53< timotei> Crab_: ok
20100503 22:07:54< Crab_> timotei: then, from java code, you'd be able to use File.createTempFile() or similar functions to get a file
20100503 22:08:20< timotei> yes
20100503 22:08:21< Crab_> I think that, as a quick hack, you can get way with patching those two places in wmllint which have lineno+=1
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20100503 22:10:07< Crab_> you need to, while 'current popped line' looks like a preprocessor line number directive, modify the file name and line number and immediately pop the next line, if it's available.
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20100503 22:10:54< Crab_> around lines 1575 and 1630
20100503 22:11:50< Crab_> so, just google for python syntax of regular expression search
20100503 22:12:16-!- Darkas [~quassel@ppp-93-104-150-152.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100503 22:12:32< Crab_> hi, Darkas
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20100503 22:20:10< Crab_> timotei: a few notes: be sure to check your patches for stray whitespace at the end of lines; std::string &streamContent = ss.str(); is not safe - remove the reference, as str() gives you a temporary copy.
20100503 22:21:08< timotei> Crab_: ok, understood
20100503 22:21:23< Crab_> (or make it a const-ref, that should extend its lifetime, afair)
20100503 22:24:27< timotei> ok, I'm going now
20100503 22:24:30< timotei> good night
20100503 22:24:33< Crab_> night
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20100503 22:38:31< billynux> I'm off too, night!
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20100503 23:09:55< CIA-10> torangan * r42455 /website/start/1.8/ (index.cs.html po/cs.po): czech translation update
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20100503 23:35:20< CIA-10> espreon * r42456 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/flat/ (50 files): 
20100503 23:35:20< CIA-10> Ran wesnoth-optipng:
20100503 23:35:20< CIA-10> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20100503 23:35:20< CIA-10> Original size: 428 KiB on 50 files
20100503 23:35:20< CIA-10> Optimized size: 303 KiB
20100503 23:35:21< CIA-10> Total saving: 125 KiB = 29% decrease
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20100503 23:41:44< CIA-10> espreon * r42457 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Moved 'great-tree.png' back into .../terrain/forest.
20100503 23:48:28< CIA-10> espreon * r42458 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Changed Xol's translatable name to 'Wall'.
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--- Log closed Tue May 04 00:00:03 2010