--- Log opened Thu May 13 00:00:41 2010
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20100513 00:22:15< CIA-10> espreon * r42595 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Made it so that pofix converts makeshift dashes to real em dashes; made it convert hyphen-minuses that are being used as minus signs to the Unicode minus sign; 'aint' -> 'ain't' in EI.
20100513 00:25:31 * zookeeper doesn't even know how to make a "real em dash"
20100513 00:28:28< Espreon> LOL, Windows.
20100513 00:28:50< Espreon> Here it is: compose + - + - + -
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20100513 00:29:43< zookeeper> how's not knowing how to get a special char out of your keyboard a windows issue?
20100513 00:29:58< zookeeper> not to mention i have absolutely no idea what "compose + - + - + -" is supposed to mean
20100513 00:30:04< Espreon> ...
20100513 00:30:15< Espreon> It means: hit compose, then hit -, then -, then -
20100513 00:30:48< Espreon> Well, on Windows, aside from AltGr, you need those LOLAltCodes.
20100513 00:31:19< zookeeper> "hit compose"?
20100513 00:32:26< Espreon> Hit the compose key.
20100513 00:32:33< zookeeper> wth is that?
20100513 00:32:36< zookeeper> neverheard
20100513 00:33:11< Espreon> There is a wondrous site called Wikipedia... why don't you try it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key
20100513 00:33:49 * zookeeper is trying it right now
20100513 00:33:59< zookeeper> wow, i don't ever recall seeing such a key on any keyboard
20100513 00:34:14< zookeeper> the least of all on any keyboard i've ever had
20100513 00:34:22< Espreon> Not many keyboards have it... not even mine.
20100513 00:34:29< Espreon> ... I just emulate one.
20100513 00:34:51< zookeeper> good advice there then
20100513 00:35:04< zookeeper> i think i'll save my sanity by going to bed...
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20100513 01:33:27< alink> mmh what is the difference between _("bla") and N_("bla") ? 
20100513 01:33:37< alink> both defined in gettext.hpp
20100513 01:33:53< alink> Or/and have we some policy about such usage?
20100513 01:34:35< alink> there is also few   t_string(N_("bla"))
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20100513 02:13:07< CIA-10> alink * r42596 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: 
20100513 02:13:07< CIA-10> Add labels in sidebar's tooltips
20100513 02:13:07< CIA-10> - Add 'Traits:' and 'Weapon:'
20100513 02:13:07< CIA-10> - Move unit type title from level to type's description
20100513 02:13:07< CIA-10> - terrain def has now a tooltip with terrain's name and a label "Chance to be hit"
20100513 02:13:08< CIA-10> (explaining the meaning of the %)
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20100513 02:46:55< CIA-10> espreon * r42597 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Reverted a regressive effect of r42522.
20100513 02:51:42< CIA-10> espreon * r42598 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Capitalized 'dry grass'.
20100513 02:54:15< CIA-10> espreon * r42599 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/cave/ (22 files): Ran umcpropfix.
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20100513 02:56:26< Aethaeryn> No. No. No.
20100513 02:56:30< Aethaeryn> I just finished compiling.
20100513 02:56:34< Aethaeryn> Why do you have to do that on me :S
20100513 02:56:36< Aethaeryn> :P
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> espreon * r42600 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/cave/ (21 files): 
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> Ran wesnoth-optipng:
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> Original size: 49 KiB on 21 files
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> Optimized size: 31 KiB
20100513 02:56:45< CIA-10> Total saving: 18 KiB = 37% decrease
20100513 02:56:59< Espreon> Aethaeryn: I didn't modify any source code...
20100513 02:57:07< Aethaeryn> oh
20100513 02:57:11< Espreon> God...
20100513 02:57:13< Aethaeryn> forgot
20100513 02:57:25< Aethaeryn> damn it, it's exam week coming up next week, and I have an exam and a paper tomorrow
20100513 02:57:28< Aethaeryn> my mind has already turned off
20100513 02:57:38< Espreon> My mind turned off a long time ago.
20100513 02:58:39< alink> Aethaeryn: i can touch a big header file, so you will go study during the recompiling <:o)
20100513 02:59:21< alink> i am sure that something is badly indented somewhere
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20100513 03:02:50< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Did you notice the awesome em dashes?
20100513 03:04:22< Aethaeryn> hwere?
20100513 03:04:37< Aethaeryn> without your fancy character but it *looks* like what you type ;)
20100513 03:05:00< Espreon> Fire up Wesnoth and gaze at the tip of the day dialogs.
20100513 03:05:24< alink> (in english)
20100513 03:05:52< Aethaeryn> Latin hasn't translated tip of the day yet, I think.
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20100513 03:08:24< alink> gn
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20100513 05:03:41< FAAB> anyone can tell me where to find the code that handle :  terminate called after throwing an instance of 'config_changed_exception' ?
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20100513 05:06:37< FAAB> nevermind
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20100513 09:03:13< kevg> zookeeper: hello. Could you check my patch? https://gna.org/patch/?1670
20100513 09:05:35< zookeeper> kevg, no, i don't know c++
20100513 09:06:12< kevg> ok
20100513 09:09:45< Ivanovic> moin
20100513 09:11:17< timotei> hello 
20100513 09:12:09< Ivanovic> Espreon: ehm, you should have just included the char itself in r42595
20100513 09:12:20< Ivanovic> as plain utf8 char
20100513 09:17:25< Ivanovic> Espreon: that is: you have to use *exactly* what is used ingame!
20100513 09:23:20< Espreon> Ivanovic: Those escapes will become what is truly in the strings.
20100513 09:25:04< Ivanovic> Espreon: have you, as a restcase, tried to run the pofix.py script on some campaign .cfg files?
20100513 09:25:18< Ivanovic> just to test if nothing else gets converted that was *not* changed?
20100513 09:25:23< Espreon> Not on cfg files, but po files.
20100513 09:25:34< Espreon> But...
20100513 09:25:38< Espreon> I'll do so anyway.
20100513 09:26:08< Ivanovic> the only thing that pofix.py does care about is that it does only replace stuff inside " "
20100513 09:26:14< Ivanovic> (not even 100% sure about this one)
20100513 09:26:38< Ivanovic> in general it will just happyly replace stuff without taking too much care about the file structure and anything
20100513 09:26:51< Ivanovic> so if the replacement rules are "too wide" it will f*** things up badly
20100513 09:27:51 * Espreon is aware of that
20100513 09:28:18< Ivanovic> good
20100513 09:28:51< Ivanovic> if you wanted to test things, what you could do is this:
20100513 09:29:02< Ivanovic> configure your build system, so that you can run a pot-update
20100513 09:29:40< Ivanovic> with cmake you would do it this way: cmake ../CMakeLists.txt -DENABLE_POT_UPDATE_TARGET=TRUE
20100513 09:29:57< Ivanovic> afterwards cd into your checkout and there into the po/ dir
20100513 09:30:22< Ivanovic> in there run ../utils/pofix.po wesnoth*/*.po*
20100513 09:30:28< Ivanovic> (this will take some long time)
20100513 09:30:41< Ivanovic> afterwards do remove the .bak files created in wesnoth*
20100513 09:31:19< Ivanovic> now cd into the folder where you have run the cmake command
20100513 09:31:32< Ivanovic> in there: make pot-update && make mo-update
20100513 09:31:44< Ivanovic> now all strings should be changed and the po files updated
20100513 09:32:11< Ivanovic> that is: if you do now cd into the checkouts po dir again and rerun the pofix line, you should *not* get any more .bak files
20100513 09:32:22< Ivanovic> if you get a new .bak file you will have to check for the differences
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20100513 09:36:50< Espreon> Hmmmm... it doesn't run so well on cfg files.
20100513 09:38:12< Ivanovic> Espreon: okay, then just do what i proposed to check if you missed any conversions in translatrable strings (those will show)
20100513 09:38:50< Ivanovic> afk for an hour
20100513 09:38:55< Espreon> OK.
20100513 09:39:54< Espreon> I'll deal with this later; I need to finish a paper.
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20100513 10:49:25< Ivanovic> Espreon: okay, your pofix rules are broken
20100513 10:49:36< Ivanovic> this replacement does eg happen in wesnoth-ei: 
20100513 10:49:37< Ivanovic> -msgid "Campaign Maintenance"
20100513 10:49:39< Ivanovic> +msgid "Campaign Main'tenance"
20100513 10:49:54< Ivanovic> (btw i think those textdomains do not really matter, having the replacements in there once would be sufficient
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20100513 10:53:32< Ivanovic> Espreon: in fact this one really does f*** up the manual!
20100513 10:54:35< Ivanovic> and this replacement rule (" -", "\xe2\x80\x94"), should be changed to (" -", " \xe2\x80\x94"), or a space will be removed from the front
20100513 10:54:54< Ivanovic> but in fact the replacements are not usable since all the '-' eg in image filenames for the manual are replaced, too
20100513 10:56:35< Ivanovic> here is a diff of all the changes in the .pot files your version of pofix would create: http://pastebin.com/w1TuAuBH
20100513 10:57:21< Ivanovic> yes, the -25 replacement does break things, too
20100513 10:57:28< Ivanovic> #
20100513 10:57:30< Ivanovic> #
20100513 10:57:31< Ivanovic> -" Lawful units get +25% damage in daytime, and -25% damage at night.\n"
20100513 10:57:35< Ivanovic> +" Lawful units get +25% damage in daytime, and—25% damage at night.\n"
20100513 10:58:38< Ivanovic> Espreon: please check the diff especially for all those changes in .cpp files as well as things like the manual and the manpages
20100513 10:58:49< Ivanovic> since the changes added there should most likely not have happened, right?
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20100513 11:55:21< timotei> can I see somehow, how the history evolved on a specified file/folder from the svn?
20100513 11:55:24< timotei> for exaple, the history of src/
20100513 11:55:44< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/
20100513 11:55:56< timotei> yes, on there, but how?
20100513 11:55:58< timotei> :D
20100513 11:55:58< Ivanovic> there you can see the history of the files
20100513 11:56:07< Ivanovic> click on the folder, select a file, done
20100513 11:56:21< timotei> I would like something like a "commits" tree, like for example in git extensions
20100513 11:56:31< Ivanovic> you can also switch through revisions
20100513 11:56:55< Ivanovic> uhm, try git-svn and check if you can get some commit trees there
20100513 11:57:15< Ivanovic> honestly i don't know exactly what you want that is not there yet...
20100513 11:57:55< timotei> well, I want a way of telling in what revision that file modified..
20100513 11:58:07< timotei> without blindly switch to *random* revisions
20100513 11:58:16< timotei> s/in what revision/ in what revisions
20100513 11:58:42< Ivanovic> so lets say you want to see the changes in the files src/attack_prediction
20100513 11:58:51< Ivanovic> you just visit this site: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/attack_prediction.cpp?rev=42303&view=log
20100513 11:58:59< Ivanovic> there you see the file history
20100513 11:59:06< timotei> oh, didn't see that
20100513 11:59:08< timotei> thanks
20100513 11:59:20< Ivanovic> like i said, "click on the files you want to see"
20100513 12:00:14< timotei> I used to click on a file from a commit log, so it would show me the full file text :D
20100513 12:00:20< timotei> thanks again
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20100513 12:32:37< timotei> Ivanovic: wesnoth-Love_To_Death   	Error in wesnoth-Love_To_Death translation files
20100513 12:32:42< timotei> here: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=de&version=branch
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20100513 13:10:28< norbert_> hi, when a scenario has 5 slots that can be humans, the controller is set to "human"
20100513 13:10:44< norbert_> in replays, is there a way I can tell a side is an ai?
20100513 13:11:10< norbert_> there are name and user_description fields (that appear to contain the same value)
20100513 13:11:34< norbert_> but there are languages where the ai is "Komputer", and probably a lot of other possible values
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20100513 13:43:24< Ivanovic> timotei: yeah, i already notified the addons author about the mistake he made
20100513 13:43:34< Ivanovic> timotei: though i can't fix it myself, the author has to do so
20100513 13:43:42< timotei> ok:)
20100513 13:55:13< Espreon> Ivanovic: Thank you. I shall fix this... when I get home.
20100513 13:55:31< Ivanovic> Espreon: you will at least have to check the manual stuff, too
20100513 13:55:42< Ivanovic> those are a *real* issue
20100513 13:56:45< Espreon> ... now to try resisting coming back here till I get home.
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20100513 15:57:25< norbert_> I have a replay file that has a section [statistics] after [/replay_start]
20100513 15:58:10< norbert_> is that strange in any way?
20100513 16:01:35< CIA-10> alink * r42601 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: 
20100513 16:01:35< CIA-10> In the damage type tooltip, if 2 unit types had same same and same resistance
20100513 16:01:35< CIA-10> then both names were uselessly displayed. Now show only once.
20100513 16:05:00< norbert_> basically, a minority of the replays have two [replay_start] ... [/replay_start] sections in them
20100513 16:05:44< norbert_> is that a bug?
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20100513 16:22:08< CIA-10> alink * r42602 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: tiny cleaning after r42601
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20100513 21:05:52< nulloid> do you know about a bug with the orcish grunt in 1.8.1?
20100513 21:06:02 * zookeeper doesn't
20100513 21:07:20< nulloid> i just played a match, and the server sent some messages about some sync error
20100513 21:07:34< nulloid> the other players said it happens if someone hires a grunt
20100513 21:08:30< zookeeper> that doesn't mean there's a bug with the orcish grunt though
20100513 21:08:33< _jbx_> someone noted an error with ageless era corrupting default orcs
20100513 21:09:02< zookeeper> if that's the case then it ought to get kicked off the add-on server
20100513 21:09:51< nulloid> ahhh... see
20100513 21:09:57< _jbx_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29851
20100513 21:10:39< nulloid> ok, thanks :)
20100513 21:11:25< zookeeper> right
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20100513 22:05:59< norbert_> mp replay statistics parser is ready
20100513 22:06:14< norbert_> and the php code is also ready
20100513 22:06:18< norbert_> will upload in a bit
20100513 22:07:19< norbert_> each scenario now also displays who were the most active players, most used unis, most used exp. mod., the settings, avg/max number of turns, and so on
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20100513 22:46:11< zookeeper> Sapient, still think [filter_vision] in SLF wouldn't be nice? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29922 ;)
20100513 22:46:34< zookeeper> (well, i guess you never said that)
20100513 22:47:07< Sapient> yeah, if people are requesting it then that's a good sign we need it
20100513 22:47:48< Sapient> unfortunately, filter_vision is not MP safe
20100513 22:48:04< Sapient> due to Delay Shroud Updates
20100513 22:48:19< zookeeper> true
20100513 22:48:42< zookeeper> but as usual, i don't think that's a problem since you can just slap a big warning next to it in the wiki..
20100513 22:49:50< Sapient> for example, if I delay shroud, move one hex at a time then Clear Shroud after the five moves
20100513 22:50:14< Sapient> then it would fire later for me than for anyone I sync with
20100513 22:50:39< Sapient> including my own replay
20100513 22:51:07< zookeeper> uh, what event?
20100513 22:51:25< Sapient> the triggering event could be anything
20100513 22:51:26< zookeeper> right, nevermind
20100513 22:58:11< zookeeper> anyway, that won't be a problem with the whiteboard anymore
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20100513 23:03:23< norbert_> ok
20100513 23:03:28< norbert_> name a scenario, any scenario
20100513 23:04:45< zookeeper> test scenario
20100513 23:05:11< norbert_> I don't think that one worked when I loaded it?
20100513 23:05:20< norbert_> another one, that people play :)
20100513 23:06:29< zookeeper> EI:captured
20100513 23:06:38< zookeeper> i don't know why you need someone to name a scenario though...
20100513 23:07:25< norbert_> what's EI?
20100513 23:07:56< norbert_> anyways, I was looking for a MP scenario that people play on the server
20100513 23:08:17< norbert_> what I wanted to show is that wsrsw now shows stats :)
20100513 23:08:21< norbert_> see for example: http://www.wsrsw.org/addon.php?name=Colosseum%20(3p%20version)
20100513 23:08:31< norbert_> or http://www.wsrsw.org/addon.php?name=The%20Labyrinth%20Of%20Champions
20100513 23:08:57< norbert_> everything is being parsed once a day and added to the site
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20100513 23:14:50< Sapient> zookeeper: what do you mean about the whiteboard?
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20100513 23:16:20< zookeeper> Sapient, i mean that with the whiteboard, things would always trigger in sync, wouldn't they?
20100513 23:16:50< Sapient> I don't know what is the "whiteboard" ou are referring to
20100513 23:17:02< Sapient> whiteboard = ?
20100513 23:17:02< zookeeper> O.o
20100513 23:17:07< zookeeper> gabba's planned moves system
20100513 23:17:20< Sapient> I haven't been following that development
20100513 23:17:27-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100513 23:17:41< Sapient> was it discussed on the dev ml or forums anwhere?
20100513 23:18:15< zookeeper> pretty sure it was on the ml
20100513 23:18:23< zookeeper> not that i remember for sure
20100513 23:18:38< Sapient> ok, if you can direct me to the discussion I will read up on it
20100513 23:19:51< zookeeper> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba would probably be a better read
20100513 23:21:50< norbert_> http://www.wsrsw.org/addon.php?name=4p%20-%20Isar%27s%20Cross
20100513 23:21:54< norbert_> now also works
20100513 23:22:22< norbert_> already parsed 407 replays for that scenario
20100513 23:22:38< norbert_> in 2 days
20100513 23:23:00< Sapient> zookeeper: yeah, that would fix it
20100513 23:23:25< Sapient> I am glad to see someone is taking that on
20100513 23:24:15-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100513 23:25:11< zookeeper> Sapient, my only concern is how it's gonna complicate things for beginners :/
20100513 23:25:34< Sapient> by the way, I finally figured out how to solve the poison dilemma for my proposed change to allied healing
20100513 23:26:34< Sapient> the answer is really quite simple, to allow poison to only be cured at the beginning of the poisoned unit's turn (just as it is now)
20100513 23:28:34< Sapient> this means your healers can heal wounded allies that move to you, but not to cure poisoned allies that move to you (unless you wait beside them)
20100513 23:29:36< zookeeper> another answer would be active healing... ;)
20100513 23:29:38-!- Skystriker [~croselius@ool-43532d38.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100513 23:30:30< Sapient> well I certainly don't expect that to meet with any approval
20100513 23:30:36< zookeeper> of course
20100513 23:30:43< zookeeper> hence the winkey
20100513 23:30:55< Sapient> why do manually what can be done automatically?
20100513 23:31:22< Sapient> we just have to think through all the possibilities and implement the correct algorithm
20100513 23:31:33< Sapient> unfortunately, there is a strong opposition to any change
20100513 23:31:40< zookeeper> well, to be honest i don't even remember which way allied healing works.
20100513 23:32:26< zookeeper> on start of healer's or healed's turn?
20100513 23:32:54< Sapient> the way it works now is all healing and curing occurs at the start of the healer's turn
20100513 23:33:11< zookeeper> ok, got it.
20100513 23:33:21< Sapient> the major downside is that you can't move the healer to a wounded ally and expect them to be healed
20100513 23:33:46< Sapient> my proposal corrects that by allowing either side to move to the other
20100513 23:33:48< zookeeper> yeah, and you can chain allied healers of different sides to get megahealing.
20100513 23:34:05< Sapient> that abuse is actually the reason why my proposal was rejected
20100513 23:34:13< Sapient> apparently it is a desired abuse
20100513 23:34:16< zookeeper> yep
20100513 23:34:38< Sapient> whereas initially it was seen as a downside now it has become established
20100513 23:34:44 * zookeeper thinks it's silly
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20100513 23:35:18< Sapient> I have considered just committing the change and seeing how the reaction goes
20100513 23:35:20< zookeeper> it has more the feeling of "an exploit" than that of "a clever tactic"
20100513 23:35:45< Sapient> after all, the dev branch is meant for trying out new ideas
20100513 23:36:05< zookeeper> well, i'm sure you know better than that not to do it just like that... :p
20100513 23:36:24< Sapient> that's how healing was changed in the past
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20100513 23:37:13< Sapient> I remember Xan changed the behavior of resting while poisoned and said "this way seems more correct. let's see if anyone notices" or something like that ;)
20100513 23:37:55< zookeeper> the reason why i think it feels more like an exploit is because you can't stack your own healers
20100513 23:38:16< Sapient> I am not going to make the change until at least one of the MP devs understands and agrees in principle
20100513 23:38:31< Sapient> I just said that "I have considered" it ;)
20100513 23:40:07< zookeeper> yeah, that's why i didn't say you were nuts
20100513 23:41:46< Sapient> see the section on "Abandoned Ideas" on my wiki user page if you're curious
20100513 23:45:43< zookeeper> yeah, reading...
20100513 23:46:24< _jbx_> norbert_: I don't like you displaying the user names of players in your data section.  All the stats are fine, but you are getting close to a dangerous line when statistics are not annonoymous 
20100513 23:46:48< norbert_> the statistics are about observable games
20100513 23:47:03< _jbx_> doesn't matter
20100513 23:47:24< _jbx_> collecting data on users like that is a grey area of ethics 
20100513 23:47:32< Sapient> the discussion is a little hard to follow but the behaviour should be more intuitive during actual gameplay
20100513 23:48:36< Sapient> unfortunately people kept hijacking the thread with alternative proposals
20100513 23:49:38< norbert_> _jbx_: ok, if others share you view I will remove those stats
20100513 23:50:08< _jbx_> norbert_: collecting the data is one thing, but displaying it is another
20100513 23:50:25< _jbx_> I understand anyone can do what you are doing...but that doesn't make it right
20100513 23:50:31< norbert_> it's being collected by wesnothd; at replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/
20100513 23:50:55< _jbx_> i know where it's collected
20100513 23:51:00< _jbx_> i understand how it works
20100513 23:51:27< _jbx_> but having a bunch of raw data is not the same as making neat profiles for everyone to see at a whim
20100513 23:51:40< zookeeper> woot, PYRE the third most used era on isar's?
20100513 23:52:50< norbert_> zookeeper: yes, of 407 replays (parsing started 11 May 2010)
20100513 23:54:01< norbert_> "Most used units" is "Most used leaders"; have to change that
20100513 23:55:34< norbert_> (changed)
--- Log closed Fri May 14 00:00:37 2010