--- Log opened Wed May 19 00:00:21 2010
--- Day changed Wed May 19 2010
20100519 00:00:21< alink> "zookeeper" don't like feral animals <:o) 
20100519 00:01:32< Valkier> Oh snap
20100519 00:03:17< alink> wild is probably better for bats
20100519 00:03:28< Valkier> Yeah but feral sounds vicious.
20100519 00:04:00< alink> but there is also the meaning of domesticated animals returning to nature, which seems odd for bats
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20100519 00:09:50< zookeeper> hmh, yeah, feral sounds like the best one so far
20100519 00:09:57< zookeeper> or wild
20100519 00:10:34< zookeeper> but then again, wolves and such should have wild too. maybe not a problem to add.
20100519 00:10:43< Shakey> I like wild, makes sense and is small, but yes....
20100519 00:10:46< Shakey> same thought about wolves
20100519 00:10:48< Shakey> lol
20100519 00:10:55< zookeeper> i'll see about that tomorrow...
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20100519 00:13:22< AI0867> timotei: I think you're not invoking ProcessBuilder correctly
20100519 00:13:35< AI0867> I'm going to install eclipse here to test it out
20100519 00:14:51< AI0867> looks like I still had it lying around on this laptop
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20100519 00:20:03< AI0867> thanks to gcj, it doesn't actually run though...
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20100519 01:14:40< Upthorn> Ivanovic: I have not made a great deal of progress on summer of code in the past couple of weeks due to being assigned many final projects, but I turn the last one in tonight, so I should be entirely ready to start coding full-blast when the official period begins.
20100519 01:19:26< CIA-10> alink * r42717 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): update changelogs
20100519 01:20:01< AI0867> the eclipse version in debian lenny is way too old...
20100519 01:20:50< knotwork_> zookeeper: how about "vermin", a trait for all critters that the undepicted population of the village are brave enough to help you defeat
20100519 01:21:33< knotwork_> (or is it meant to also apply to burned-down village  aka unpopulated villages?)
20100519 01:24:56< alink> knotwork_: but vermin has also the meaning of animals liking humans environment like cockroaches or rats. 
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20100519 01:27:19< alink> we can replace all village by windmill, there is a forum thread about windmill being bad for bats :-p
20100519 01:29:59< knotwork_> alink: but if you sent a military unit into a village to exterminate cockroaches or rats the villagers would probably help find them, yes?
20100519 01:30:45< alink> yes, but the bats "owns" the village
20100519 01:31:04< knotwork_> a cockroach unit or rat unit would too
20100519 01:31:51< knotwork_> owning is function of being a unit not a function of merely being present like villagers bacteria fleas whatever
20100519 01:31:54< alink> maybe the moving flag can scare the bats. I wonder if scarecrow works on bats.
20100519 01:32:47< alink> i mean i assumed that "owning" means the villagers are not supposed to attack you
20100519 01:32:50< knotwork_> main question is should the rat unit (e.g. in it takes a swampling) be similarly specialled in villages
20100519 01:33:34< knotwork_> like, what is in-game rationale (as distinct from arbitrary balannce needs of multiplayer gaming) for bats penalty in villages?
20100519 01:34:55< knotwork_> if its a matter of being shut in like among trees, why doesnt it also apply in forest? under forest canopy or cave roof instea of hiding in eaves of buildings like earth (sol 3) bats do)
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20100519 01:36:06< knotwork_> maybe its ambient noise messing its sonar? but then why not in other places where sounds are placed specifically for instance?
20100519 01:37:45< AI0867> knotwork_: there is none
20100519 01:40:16< Sapient> gameplay trumps realism
20100519 01:41:16< Sapient> the reason bats don't get 60% defense on most villages is because they are effective enough without it, and too effective with it
20100519 01:42:11< Sapient> any realism based argument is just fluff
20100519 01:42:39< alink> some people even considered that bats were more effective than the atomic bomb
20100519 01:42:44< alink> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
20100519 01:43:29< knotwork_> fluff is a short enough name for a traitname :) ;)
20100519 01:44:08< knotwork_> what other kinds of units could end up using the same trait? strong flying units in general?
20100519 01:44:19< knotwork_> evasive strong flyers?
20100519 01:44:45< alink> scout/village grabbers units, I guess
20100519 01:44:49< knotwork_> maybe use trait "batacian" if its just for bats
20100519 01:45:28< knotwork_> griffons?
20100519 01:45:45< knotwork_> falcons? rocs?
20100519 01:48:28< Sapient> alink: that would make bats a lot more annoying if they could burn down villages instead of just stealing them
20100519 01:49:04< Sapient> I assume the bat would die in the process too, though
20100519 01:49:32< alink> unless they always burn them, then no more village capture for the bat team
20100519 01:50:59< alink> but indeed a fast unit  able to destroy village could be really annoying
20100519 01:54:06< Sapient> the problem with zookeeper's trait proposal is that it has an incorrect assumption
20100519 01:54:19< Sapient> bat's currently get 60% defense on some villages
20100519 01:54:26< Sapient> *bats
20100519 01:54:58< Sapient> swamp villages, to be specific
20100519 01:55:14< Sapient> I'm not sure if there are any others
20100519 01:55:14< alink> hills village too 
20100519 01:55:59< AI0867> Sapient: everything but flat
20100519 01:56:12< Sapient> there is an old superstition about vampires, that they cannot enter a house unless invited
20100519 01:56:16< alink> well, any village having 2 terrain alias in fact
20100519 01:56:20< AI0867> that wasn't intentional though, but a side-effect of the terrain system
20100519 01:56:28< AI0867> which is now being extended to villages on flat
20100519 01:56:41< AI0867> Sapient: that could be interesting
20100519 01:57:02< Sapient> since they are "vampire" bats, maybe the same prohibition applies ;)
20100519 01:57:58< Sapient> you should put the question up to the Writer's Forum; they already have a good fluff explanation thread
20100519 01:58:38< Sapient> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=26886
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20100519 02:04:37< CIA-10> ai0867 * r42718 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20100519 02:04:37< CIA-10> eclipse plugin: Rewrite ExternalToolInvoker to pass a list of arguments to ProcessBuilder, rather than a string of them.
20100519 02:04:37< CIA-10> Untested because debian lenny still has eclipse 3.2.2, but the source compiles.
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20100519 04:15:01< Valkier> Well there's BlueBlaze.
20100519 04:17:18< Gambit> Blueblaze can't come to the phone right now.
20100519 04:17:21< Gambit> He's cooking his friend.
20100519 04:17:31< Gambit> Making burritos out of him.
20100519 04:18:20< Valkier> Fun
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20100519 07:10:59< FAAB> hi Crab_, have you had a chance to look again at my patch ?
20100519 07:11:12< Crab_> hi, not yet
20100519 07:11:22< Crab_> expect today in +12h
20100519 07:12:55< FAAB> Crab_: ok, I will be off at that moment, leave a log here or on gna.org
20100519 07:13:02< Crab_> ok
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20100519 09:50:11< Ivanovic> moin
20100519 10:01:11< zookeeper> boucman, great, i already have a bug for you :P
20100519 10:01:20< boucman> hehe
20100519 10:01:22< boucman> url ?
20100519 10:01:42< zookeeper> haven't written a report yet, still figuring out what exactly causes it
20100519 10:03:36< boucman> zookeeper: could you have a look at the OP's response in patch 1667 ? it's probably still "won't do" but it's worth checking...
20100519 10:04:04< zookeeper> it seems to go like this: when starting your turn, healing anims aren't played if the previous side had fog on and you don't share view with that side.
20100519 10:04:15< zookeeper> or something like that
20100519 10:04:40< boucman> hmm
20100519 10:04:43< boucman> ok, 
20100519 10:04:53< zookeeper> boucman, i've been talking with him via PM regarding the village stuff
20100519 10:05:01< boucman> oh, ok
20100519 10:05:13< zookeeper> so it's ok. we're waiting for something to come out of this bat rebalancing thing.
20100519 10:05:16< boucman> please open a bug, since I won't be able to look right away
20100519 10:05:22< zookeeper> okay
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20100519 10:13:46< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42719 /trunk/po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated Italian translation
20100519 10:13:50< CIA-10> ivanovic * r42720 /branches/1.8/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Italian translation
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20100519 11:05:35< toeholds> \join #wesnoth
20100519 11:05:51< toeholds> wrong slash, sorry :)
20100519 11:06:44< toeholds> Does anyone know if anyone is doing art for the Sceptre of Fire campaign?
20100519 11:08:18< zookeeper> no, i don't think anyone is currently
20100519 11:08:33< zookeeper> at least not story/portrait art. someone might have been working on some sprites.
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20100519 11:14:08< toeholds> Cool.  I'll browse around, try to follow Kitty's tutorial, and post on the forums if anything does come up.
20100519 11:14:57< toeholds> Is there a maintainer for that campaign (Scepter of Fire)?  I had a hard time looking it up on the forums (most of them seem to relate to HttT)
20100519 11:17:20< zookeeper> yeah, that'd be me
20100519 11:17:39< toeholds> oh heh.
20100519 11:17:55< toeholds> Did you write the campaign as well?
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20100519 11:18:16< zookeeper> no, it was written by turin ages ago. i've just been maintaining it for the past couple of years.
20100519 11:18:47 * toeholds nods.
20100519 11:19:03< toeholds> I really enjoyed the campaign.  Thanks for maintaining it.
20100519 11:19:10< zookeeper> have you posted anything yet on the forums?
20100519 11:19:52< toeholds> No, I've rather new to Wesnoth.
20100519 11:20:17< toeholds> I'll post something when I have something to post :)
20100519 11:20:33 * toeholds should go to bed.  Night!
20100519 11:20:43< zookeeper> oh, all right
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20100519 11:55:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 104 bugs, 281 feature requests, 17 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100519 12:31:59< thespaceinvader> TSI appeals for help: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30024
20100519 12:32:34< thespaceinvader> i;m wildly out of date on things, art-wise, that should have been committed since about february.  If anyone can think of anythign I ought to get to, can they let me know here or on the forums please =)
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20100519 13:39:04< kevg> wesbot: seen Sapient
20100519 13:39:04< wesbot> kevg: The person with the nick Sapient last spoke 11h 40m ago.  11h 38m ago person left:
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20100519 16:20:08< kevg> Hello. Could someone check my patch? https://gna.org/patch/?1672
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20100519 16:23:00< shadowmaster> 747
20100519 16:23:56< boucman> kevg: you're already in about.cfg ?
20100519 16:24:04< kevg> yes
20100519 16:24:36< boucman> zookeeper: around ?
20100519 16:25:17< boucman> kevg: ok, firs thing while looking at the patch, "recall_too" is a poor choice of wording (no need to do another patch right away, though, i'll continue proofreading)
20100519 16:30:43< boucman> kevg: assigned to zookeeper for general comment, he'll reassign to me once he's done
20100519 16:31:17< kevg> boucman: ok. I have 2 patches more :)
20100519 16:31:33< boucman> how many did I commit already ?
20100519 16:32:29< kevg> I don't know
20100519 16:33:08< zookeeper> boucman, looking...
20100519 16:33:35< kevg> boucman: and maybe I don't understand your question
20100519 16:34:04< boucman> how many of your patches did I already commit (i.e have status "done", not "in progress")
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20100519 16:35:51< kevg> boucman: you have commited one of my patches. But it was reviewed by YoggiHH
20100519 16:36:11< boucman> ok, let me rephrase :P
20100519 16:36:28< boucman> how many patches from you have been comitted (not specifically by me :P )
20100519 16:36:30< Ivanovic> kevg: the question is: how many of your patches were already commited?
20100519 16:36:40< kevg> 2 patches
20100519 16:37:06< kevg> https://gna.org/patch/?1668 and https://gna.org/patch/?1665
20100519 16:39:39< zookeeper> hard to think of a good name which would consist of less than three words...
20100519 16:40:24< boucman> search_recall
20100519 16:40:25< kevg> maybe it will be good to check recall list too by default?
20100519 16:40:51< zookeeper> better not, since that would likely break a lot of existing content
20100519 16:41:02< zookeeper> otherwise it'd be better to do that by default
20100519 16:41:27< zookeeper> sure, search_recall=yes|no or search_recall_list= sounds fine by me
20100519 16:41:41< zookeeper> i'm assuming "recalls" isn't a proper word
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20100519 16:46:16< zookeeper> boucman, commented and assigned back to you...
20100519 16:46:22< boucman> k, thx
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20100519 16:51:44< fendrin> hi timotei
20100519 16:52:15< timotei> hi fendrin
20100519 16:56:46< fendrin> timotei: any news on the editor argument problem?
20100519 16:58:39< timotei> fendrin: well, AI0867 was right, I should have send a list of arguments, not a string.
20100519 16:59:01< timotei> I'll start fixing it in aprox 30-45 mins... cause my computer is behaving very suspicious
20100519 16:59:25< fendrin> okay
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20100519 17:25:07< timotei> well my eclipse is acting very weird. it doesn't save any preferences:|
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20100519 17:26:53< shadowmaster> since when isn't "weird" normal?
20100519 17:27:17< shadowmaster> I can't even run it. I don't have enough memory to feed the monster.
20100519 17:27:27< timotei> lol:D
20100519 17:27:44< timotei> well, yeah, it takes me: 447 megas 
20100519 17:35:39< Soliton> it looked to me like AI0867 already fixed the argument passing in r42718.
20100519 17:36:10< shadowmaster> I really hope you are reading the VM allocation and not the resident allocation
20100519 17:37:35< timotei> Soliton: yeah, but don't know why my machine refuses to save wesnoth's preferences
20100519 17:38:27< timotei> ok it works now. eclipse's really weird sometimes:D
20100519 17:39:48< shadowmaster> eclipse? wesnoth? eclipse? wesnoth? aargh
20100519 17:41:24< timotei> yeah, my bad
20100519 17:44:02< timotei> ha! got it!
20100519 17:44:25< boucman> kevg: on second reading, i'm not really happy with your patch...
20100519 17:44:40< boucman> it breaks the logicall level of internal_condition_passted
20100519 17:45:11< boucman> internal_condition_passed tests if a condition is matched by one of the units in conditional_passed
20100519 17:46:09< boucman> which itself takes the list of units to test from its arguments
20100519 17:46:35< boucman> so it breaks the function's philosophy to test for units that are not in that list
20100519 17:46:58< boucman> i.e it's in the list passed to conditional_passed that you should work...
20100519 17:47:03< boucman> i.e change the callers
20100519 17:48:35< CIA-10> timotei * r42721 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/preferences/ (PreferenceConstants.java PreferenceInitializer.java): eclipse plugin: fix creation of the preferences file
20100519 17:48:56< timotei> fendrin: ok, everything works for now as wishing
20100519 17:49:21< timotei> but I have one more question (for everyone)
20100519 17:49:39< fendrin> timotei: Cool, it's nice seeing the plugin doing it's first useful thing.
20100519 17:49:56< timotei> if I want to launch the editor using a specified working data directory, I need to supply a filename to be opened
20100519 17:50:10< timotei> isn't that a bit awkward? or I'm not seeing the right way to do that?
20100519 17:50:41< timotei> so I cannot have something like: -e /datadir , but instead: -e dummyfile /datadir
20100519 17:52:20< boucman> afk ~10'
20100519 17:53:09< fendrin> timotei: by /datadir you mean the data directory where wesnoth reads the wml tree or the working directory where the map open/save dialog points to?
20100519 17:53:34< timotei> the former
20100519 17:55:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 105 bugs, 281 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100519 17:56:14< timotei> it's the way of overriding data directory
20100519 17:56:21< timotei> game.cpp: 483
20100519 17:58:01< timotei> fend don't really know if for editor it has any effects, but if we quit the editor, and enter the game, we could use another data directory
20100519 17:58:15< timotei> s/fend/fendrin
20100519 17:59:01< fendrin> timotei: The editor could use that feature as well. At least it has to read it's terrains from there.
20100519 17:59:20< timotei> fendrin: well, ok then. So what we do in this case?
20100519 17:59:38< timotei> fendrin: when needing just to override the data directory, but not open any file/folder in the editor
20100519 18:00:51< fendrin> timotei: It's an syntax issue? The problem is that the datadir doesn't have a "-x" caller?
20100519 18:01:36< timotei> fendrin: well, it's kinda of problem that afair I don't have an "explicit" way of overriding the data dir 
20100519 18:01:55< timotei> so the latter
20100519 18:02:40< fendrin> Let's try to summon Ivanovic.
20100519 18:02:54 * Ivanovic is not summonable
20100519 18:02:55< shadowmaster> oh no
20100519 18:03:00< shadowmaster> don't do it, don't do it
20100519 18:03:11< timotei> Crab_ told me not to break that
20100519 18:03:21< timotei> so I think I'll add an -x argument for explicit setting that
20100519 18:03:30< shadowmaster> what data dir?
20100519 18:03:42< timotei> game.cpp:483
20100519 18:03:45< shadowmaster> you mean data dir as in $ wesnoth <data dir>
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20100519 18:03:56< timotei> the data directory used by wesnoth for reading the data (images, wml, etc)
20100519 18:04:21< shadowmaster> yes, hence I didn't put a question mark
20100519 18:08:16< kevg> boucman: ok
20100519 18:09:07< boucman> kevg: when patching, feel free to do patch that "touch around" if it's needed...
20100519 18:10:56< kevg> boucman: "touch around" means "change a lot of things(strings)"?
20100519 18:11:17< kevg> I'm sorry for my english.
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20100519 18:11:50< boucman> it means that if you think the "clean way" to fix something involves changing code all over the place, go for the clean way, no the "simple but dirty way"
20100519 18:12:41< kevg> understood
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20100519 18:16:26< timotei> fendrin: is this you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_M%C3%BCller ?
20100519 18:22:06< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: how do you handle .po's edited by poedit?
20100519 18:22:21< shadowmaster> that is, do you know what would be the commands needed to do the linewrapping, etc. magic?
20100519 18:22:24< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: exactly the same as those edited by any other editor
20100519 18:22:32< shadowmaster> or to avoid useless diff'ing
20100519 18:22:43< shadowmaster> also, not with wesnoth in particular, but with any standalone po/pot set
20100519 18:22:56< Ivanovic> i use the respective make commands
20100519 18:23:20< shadowmaster> what are they so I can check what they really do? (I really meant "standalone")
20100519 18:23:25< Ivanovic> configured wesnoth using cmake with this param: -DENABLE_NOTIFICATIONS=TRUE
20100519 18:23:53< Ivanovic> make po-update-LANGCODE && make mo-update-LANGCODE
20100519 18:24:07< Ivanovic> those two make commands do the conversion
20100519 18:25:05< fendrin> timotei: No, I am much older and not famous in any way :-)
20100519 18:25:13< CIA-10> zookeeper * r42722 /trunk/data/campaigns/Liberty/ (18 files in 2 dirs): 
20100519 18:25:13< CIA-10> Added new sprites for the skeleton rider, bone knight (base frame only) and
20100519 18:25:13< CIA-10> death squire, adapted from IftU. Also removed the now unnecessary duplicate unit
20100519 18:25:13< CIA-10> types for the former two as well as the duplicate dark sorcerer.
20100519 18:25:16< timotei> fendrin: oh. ok:)
20100519 18:25:59< fendrin> timotei: Müller is quite often in germany.
20100519 18:26:26< timotei> fendrin: something like: Brown or Smith in US?
20100519 18:27:20< fendrin> timotei: It es the most frequently name.
20100519 18:27:30< shadowmaster> damned I am.
20100519 18:27:33< shadowmaster> that's why I hide mine.
20100519 18:27:49< shadowmaster> it's so common it's annoying to read
20100519 18:29:11< fendrin> shadowmaster: Indeed. The same with Müller.
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20100519 18:32:58< fendrin> timotei: I think you can add "-x" for implicit determination of the data dir.
20100519 18:33:16< fendrin> Ivanovic: ^ What do you say?
20100519 18:33:44< Ivanovic> uhm, no idea...
20100519 18:37:34< timotei> well.. I think one more "command" is not that much, isn't it?:D
20100519 18:38:04< shadowmaster> "implicit"? that's what wesnoth does already
20100519 18:38:17< shadowmaster> unless I didn't understand what you meant with "implicit"
20100519 18:38:20< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: thanks, that helped
20100519 18:38:50< Ivanovic> yes, currently you provide a datadir just as param behind the startup command
20100519 18:39:01< Ivanovic> wesnoth data/dir/path
20100519 18:39:30< Ivanovic> what for do you need the additional param, that is: why ain't this "no extra param required" enough?
20100519 18:39:36< fendrin> timotei: works fine for me except one thing: Eclipse freezes during the wesnoth execution.
20100519 18:40:11< fendrin> Ivanovic: The problem is that wesnoth -e expects a map name as next argument. So there is no way to execute the editor with a different datadir from the commandline.
20100519 18:40:57< Ivanovic> ahh, interesting problem, the map editor startup stuff...
20100519 18:41:07< timotei> fendrin: entirely? until wesnoth ends?
20100519 18:41:18< fendrin> timotei: right.
20100519 18:41:45-!- stikonas [~and@bcm-131-111-247-104.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100519 18:41:51< timotei> that shouldn't happen since you start it in a new thread.
20100519 18:42:01< fendrin> timotei: it is also loosing the ability to redraw it's content. That means most likely that the whole task/process/threads is/are halted.
20100519 18:42:54-!- Valkier [~karasawa@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 18:47:12< fendrin> Ivanovic: So I think timotei plans to introduce an "--datadir" that can be used whenever the regular syntax forbids the datadir specification.
20100519 18:47:26< Ivanovic> sounds reasonable
20100519 18:47:28< shadowmaster> where does it forbid the specification?
20100519 18:47:37< shadowmaster> if it does then maybe some other argument is being parsed wrong
20100519 18:47:40< fendrin> Ivanovic: The problem is that wesnoth -e expects a map name as next argument. So there is no way to execute the editor with a different datadir from the commandline. shadowmaster
20100519 18:47:51< Ivanovic> please do not forget to document it in the manpages (/doc/man/wesnoth.6) and the --help entry
20100519 18:47:53< shadowmaster> ah
20100519 18:48:18< shadowmaster> maybe just scrap the wesnoth [data dir] argument altogether
20100519 18:48:18< timotei> Ivanovic: I wont miss the documentation
20100519 18:48:25< Ivanovic> okay
20100519 18:48:31< shadowmaster> make the final thing specify either a map name or save game name
20100519 18:48:41< shadowmaster> and provide a separate --datadir option
20100519 18:48:58< shadowmaster> *map path. I do mean save game name though
20100519 18:50:43< timotei> so, ok, I'll use --datadir for explicit setting/overriding the data dir
20100519 18:51:29< fendrin> timotei: Fine, I think you don't need a single character only one "-" argument for that.
20100519 18:52:05< timotei> ok
20100519 18:52:19< shadowmaster> to clarify, I don't think overriding datadir sees much use from final users nowadays since wesnoth can detect when it's being run from its source dir
20100519 18:52:51< shadowmaster> so I don't think developers would throw pitchforks at you if you assigned it to an actual different switch
20100519 18:54:01< fendrin> boucman: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=429062#p429062
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20100519 18:55:03< boucman> fendrin: thx but since zookeeper commited the first bunch, i'll let you commit the second
20100519 18:55:39< fendrin> boucman: Is it ready to commit? I thought that is images only, no coding.
20100519 19:01:05-!- Lastmerlin [~Lastmerli@kalypso.csn.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 19:02:10< Valkier> Someone remind me how to get to the page that shows all the current units and their sprites?
20100519 19:02:30< boucman> checking...
20100519 19:02:38< shadowmaster> units.wesnoth.org
20100519 19:02:45< boucman> yup, that's it
20100519 19:02:46< Valkier> Thank you.
20100519 19:02:49< shadowmaster> go for trunk
20100519 19:03:04< boucman> hmm, it's not quite up to date....
20100519 19:03:48< shadowmaster> no idea how often it's regenerated or if there's a cronjob for that. I'm not awesome enough to see wesnoth's crontab
20100519 19:03:59-!- Skystriker [~croselius@pool-70-111-210-233.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 19:04:21< boucman> shadowmaster: no, it's up to date from that point of view, 
20100519 19:04:31< Valkier> Any idea if ghoul's need a new portrait?
20100519 19:04:42< boucman> it's missing some new types of animations (nothing critical, but i should ping Ivanovic about it)
20100519 19:06:14< Ivanovic> hmm, units.w.o *should* be up to date
20100519 19:06:25< Ivanovic> if it is not, ping elias (he does the scripts) or Soliton
20100519 19:06:32< elias> hm, what
20100519 19:06:41< shadowmaster> boucman: new types, how so?
20100519 19:06:57< boucman> pre fight, post fight, pre movement, post movements
20100519 19:07:01< elias> there's a weekly cronjob as far as i know
20100519 19:07:06< Ivanovic> u.w.o should be regenerated on a daily basis IIRC
20100519 19:07:08< boucman> (added to help the drake take off and landing)
20100519 19:07:11< Soliton> s/weekly/daily/
20100519 19:07:22< elias> oh, i thought it uses too much memory or something for daily :P
20100519 19:07:32< shadowmaster> we have more memory
20100519 19:07:33< Soliton> elias: new error, btw. let me find the paste.
20100519 19:07:56< Soliton> elias: http://yourpaste.net/5452
20100519 19:07:58< boucman> Ivanovic, elias: Its content is up to date, but my guess is that the columns are hard-coded, so I need to ping someone when a new type of anim is added, and I didn't o it
20100519 19:08:23< Ivanovic> boucman: yeah, you should ping elias
20100519 19:08:31< elias> or Soliton
20100519 19:08:33< boucman> elias: ping :P
20100519 19:08:43< shadowmaster> I guess I'm missing something, what columns? :P
20100519 19:08:56< shadowmaster> more like what do anims have to do with u.w.o at all
20100519 19:08:58< Soliton> animations.html
20100519 19:09:05< Soliton> or so
20100519 19:09:14< shadowmaster> ahh, I see
20100519 19:09:41< boucman> elias: you have an up to date list of anim names in src/unit_animation.cpp line 31
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20100519 19:12:09< boucman> elias: missing anims : resistance_anim recruiting_anim pre_movement_anim post_movement_anim draw_weapon_anim sheath_weapon_anim
20100519 19:12:21< boucman> not sure what resistance is off the top of my head...
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20100519 19:16:56< timotei21> lol, eclipse crashed???
20100519 19:17:08< Lastmerlin> hello
20100519 19:17:38< Lastmerlin> I want to recruit someone from wesnoth community for my project (again) ^^
20100519 19:18:00< Lastmerlin> What I have is: All german strings translated to english by a german native speaker
20100519 19:18:26< Lastmerlin> What I seek is: English native speaker with german language skills that can check the results
20100519 19:18:46< Lastmerlin> Can you give me some tips whom I could ask ?
20100519 19:18:57< timotei21> why not use google translate... from en-de or de-en is pretty good
20100519 19:19:11< Lastmerlin> I dont want pretty good
20100519 19:19:18< Lastmerlin> I bet our current translation is already pretty good
20100519 19:19:22< fendrin> Lastmerlin: I don't think we have an English native with German skills.
20100519 19:19:41< Lastmerlin> I expect that there are few mistakes in
20100519 19:20:01< Lastmerlin> but the trick is simple: once english is complete, it will be the *original language*
20100519 19:20:12< elias> yes, in general the translator should be native in the target language
20100519 19:20:19< Lastmerlin> so to say, other translations are made from this english translation
20100519 19:20:35< Lastmerlin> thats why i want to get it so really high quality
20100519 19:20:47< fendrin> Lastmerlin: If your project is interesting enough you can try talking esr to have a look.
20100519 19:20:57< Lastmerlin> www.sumwars.org
20100519 19:21:00< Lastmerlin> this is the project
20100519 19:21:07< elias> esr even knows some german from what i remember :)
20100519 19:21:08< Lastmerlin> already posted it in forums too :)
20100519 19:22:45< Lastmerlin> well some german skills are definitely required to check some translation
20100519 19:23:53< Soliton> why?
20100519 19:24:21< Lastmerlin> ok, with pure english skills you can check grammar and correctness
20100519 19:24:32< Lastmerlin> but you can not check, if the word used are really apropriate
20100519 19:24:57< Lastmerlin> that is one of the central problems for those who are not english native speakers
20100519 19:25:04< Soliton> neither can you with wild guessing because you know german.
20100519 19:25:15< Ivanovic> of course you can check it ingame
20100519 19:25:21< Ivanovic> which is what you actually should do
20100519 19:25:21-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: You are doing it right! Have some cake! ^_^]
20100519 19:25:22< Lastmerlin> tons of adjectives and adverbs and they are all slightly different in meaning
20100519 19:25:31< Soliton> if you think a word is inappropriate you need to just ask what was meant.
20100519 19:25:31< Ivanovic> you want basically someone to do "prose polishing"
20100519 19:25:35-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 19:25:37< Lastmerlin> under certain circumstances, in certain contexts an so on
20100519 19:26:06< Soliton> right, so you need a native speaker, that's all.
20100519 19:26:18< Ivanovic> no need for someone knowing *any* german there
20100519 19:26:18< Lastmerlin> well I bet, that a few language mistakes (in terms of grammar and so on ) are in there as well
20100519 19:26:43< Lastmerlin> but the main problem is the proper use of english
20100519 19:27:35< Lastmerlin> the slight differences that make the difference of native speaker and foreigner ^^
20100519 19:27:53< Lastmerlin> are you sure, that this can be done without looking at the original texts ?
20100519 19:28:16< elias> unless the translation is really bad, yes
20100519 19:28:17< Soliton> it can't be done with either.
20100519 19:28:50< elias> well, for making sure the English version uses proper English, I mean
20100519 19:29:05< Soliton> yeah.
20100519 19:29:20< Soliton> i'm mostly responding to the hypocritical part of the question.
20100519 19:29:30< Lastmerlin> well two german speakers with solid english skills have created it
20100519 19:29:47< Lastmerlin> perhaps you can judge from my english here, that the translations should not be horrible
20100519 19:30:17-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100519 19:32:18< Lastmerlin> ok, then you advice to require just english native speaker
20100519 19:33:16< Lastmerlin> Is it allowed to post this to the translation section ? I doubt that many translators read the game developement (other games) forum.
20100519 19:35:15< Soliton> seems inappropriate.
20100519 19:35:25< Lastmerlin> I expected that ^^
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20100519 19:47:48< timotei21> damn it. how can I see the changes between 2 fles (including eof?)
20100519 19:47:59< timotei21> kate modifies a lot in wesnoth.6 file when saving
20100519 19:48:34< timotei21> well yeah, wesnoth.6 has some trailing line
20100519 19:48:38< timotei21> s/line/lines
20100519 19:48:53< Ivanovic> Lastmerlin: translators are not native english speakers
20100519 19:49:06< Ivanovic> they tend to be native speakers for the lang they translate the stuff into
20100519 19:49:10< Lastmerlin> well thats a valid point ^^
20100519 19:49:16< Ivanovic> with other words: not your target audience
20100519 19:49:58< timotei21> Ivanovic: shouldn't wesnoth.6 man page had no trailing whitespace?
20100519 19:50:15< Ivanovic> timotei21: honestly: no idea!
20100519 19:50:35< timotei21> ok:D
20100519 19:55:17< timotei21> fendrin: ok, finished the "-datadir" command
20100519 19:55:38< timotei21> fendrin: and it works as we wanted :)
20100519 19:56:11< fendrin> timotei21: I guess you plan that the eclipse plugin will open a specific map from the scenario as well?
20100519 19:56:32-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-76-202-22-124.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 19:56:33< timotei21> fendrin: yes, of course. but for now we need a "quick" way for opening the editor:)
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20100519 20:16:47< kevg> boucman: conditional_passed uses recursion to resolve meta condition tags. I don't know how to resolve something like this:
20100519 20:16:49< kevg> [if]
20100519 20:16:51< kevg> 	[and]
20100519 20:16:53< kevg> 		[have_unit]
20100519 20:16:55< kevg> 			search_recall=yes
20100519 20:16:57< kevg> 			race=human
20100519 20:16:59< kevg> 		[/have_unit]
20100519 20:17:01< kevg> 		[have_unit]
20100519 20:17:03< kevg> 			race=elf
20100519 20:17:05< kevg> 		[/have_unit]
20100519 20:17:07< kevg> 	[/and]
20100519 20:17:09< kevg> [/if]
20100519 20:17:11< kevg> by changing callers of conditional_passed.
20100519 20:17:16< boucman> hmm
20100519 20:17:39< boucman> kevg: then the mistake is maybe in passing the unit map itself...
20100519 20:21:08< kevg> Every but one piece of code pass resourses::units to conditional_passed.
20100519 20:23:08< boucman> which one ?
20100519 20:23:31< kevg> in play_controller::expand_wml_commands
20100519 20:25:02< esr> elias: Alas, my German is nonexistent :-)
20100519 20:27:39< kevg> boucman: I've lied. Also, some callers passed NULL as first argument. src/storyscreen/controller.cpp, for example.
20100519 20:28:00< CIA-10> timotei * r42723 /trunk/ (changelog doc/man/wesnoth.6 src/game.cpp): 
20100519 20:28:00< CIA-10> added a new command line "datadir" to explicitly override
20100519 20:28:00< CIA-10> the data directory
20100519 20:28:09< CIA-10> timotei * r42724 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20100519 20:28:09< CIA-10> eclipse plugin: show output from currently running tool
20100519 20:28:09< CIA-10> added support for wesnoth working dir preference
20100519 20:28:17< timotei21> fendrin: ok, everything is ok for now
20100519 20:28:19< boucman> i have trouble understanding what those two cases are trying to do...
20100519 20:28:56< boucman> could you explore a little and see if assuming resources::units is the only thing that makes sense, or if we really need that parameter...
20100519 20:29:07< timotei21> fendrin: could you check it starts you editor too?
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20100519 20:29:16< timotei21> I need to go now, but want to "sleep" well
20100519 20:29:18< fendrin> timotei21: yes, in progress
20100519 20:29:45< timotei21> fendrin: ok
20100519 20:29:57-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has quit [Client Quit]
20100519 20:30:54< kevg> boucman: i'll try but not guarantee to giving an answer today - i'm gonna sleep soon.
20100519 20:31:05< boucman> ok, no hurry
20100519 20:31:12-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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20100519 20:33:14 * boucman tests if empathy's irc support is better now
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20100519 20:43:54< Crab_> FAAB: commented at the patch page.
20100519 20:44:09-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Client Quit]
20100519 20:47:38< boucman1> bbl
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20100519 20:53:35< fendrin> timotei21: took forever to compile
20100519 20:53:45< timotei21> compile what?
20100519 20:53:53< timotei21> well, I was afk for 5-10 mins:P
20100519 20:55:16< timotei21> fendrin: so, the current behavior: if you have not specified a working dir, it puts the default one(parsed from the executable's path), otherwise it puts the one specified in the preferences
20100519 20:56:27< fendrin> timotei21: it works
20100519 20:56:37< fendrin> timotei21: but still it freezes eclipse.
20100519 20:56:48< timotei21> well, that's a not-wanted "feature"
20100519 20:56:52< timotei21> hmm
20100519 20:57:02< timotei21> what eclipse does it freeze? the plugin one or the host?
20100519 20:57:14< timotei21> the host being the normal eclipse from which you run the plugin
20100519 20:57:22< fendrin> the plugin one only
20100519 20:58:00< timotei21> in the host one, in the console, it prints editor's output?
20100519 20:58:18< timotei21> fendrin: oh, wait. remove all breakpoints if you set anyone
20100519 20:58:47< timotei21> The "Run" menu-> "Skill all breakpoints", and start it again
20100519 21:00:00< fendrin> timotei21: nope, no breakpoints set.
20100519 21:02:59-!- silene [~silene@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 21:03:14< silene> hi
20100519 21:03:55< timotei21> hi silene :)
20100519 21:03:59-!- timotei21 is now known as timotei
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20100519 21:05:04< timotei> silene: welcome back
20100519 21:06:12< silene> i finally got an internet access at home today; isp are not really quick at connecting people...
20100519 21:06:58-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 21:07:29< silene> anyway, i should be there more often now
20100519 21:09:41< timotei> well fendrin I have to go now... I'll think about that freezing
20100519 21:10:04< fendrin> timotei: have you tried &
20100519 21:10:06< fendrin> =
20100519 21:10:08< fendrin> ?
20100519 21:10:22< timotei> try what?
20100519 21:10:35< fendrin> add an & to the commandline.
20100519 21:11:02< fendrin> It's a silly idea but could work
20100519 21:11:06< timotei> for what?
20100519 21:11:14< timotei> I don't really get where to put that?
20100519 21:11:20< fendrin> firefox &
20100519 21:11:45< fendrin> will start firefox but disconnect it from the console so that is able to be used further.
20100519 21:11:49< fendrin> just try it out.
20100519 21:12:02< timotei> ok
20100519 21:12:16< timotei> I get it
20100519 21:12:25< timotei> well, ok, let me try that in elcipse
20100519 21:12:27< timotei> eclipse*
20100519 21:14:36< timotei> Overriding data directory with /home/timo/gw/
20100519 21:14:37< timotei> tool exited.
20100519 21:14:40< timotei> but nothing shows up
20100519 21:15:05< timotei> hmm
20100519 21:15:10< fendrin> hmm, you may need to start a java thread for exectuting wesnoth
20100519 21:15:34< timotei> well that's what I'm doing
20100519 21:15:59< timotei> the last "launchTool" argument (which is true) is for: "useThread"
20100519 21:16:25< timotei> fendrin: try this
20100519 21:16:37< timotei> OpenEditorHandler.java: 39
20100519 21:16:50< timotei> turn the first "true" into false
20100519 21:16:54< timotei> and tell me if that works
20100519 21:17:29< fendrin> timotei: where is that class?
20100519 21:17:47< timotei>  handlers directory
20100519 21:18:02< timotei> eclipseplugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/handlers
20100519 21:20:09< fendrin> hmm, I just discovered that I had to refresh the project.
20100519 21:20:20< fendrin> But now it doesn't start wesnoth anymore.
20100519 21:20:29< timotei> lol
20100519 21:20:30< fendrin> Sorry for messing up your sleep :-)
20100519 21:20:38< timotei> well, no problem
20100519 21:21:02< timotei> doesn't start ... but what's the ouput of the host?
20100519 21:21:13< timotei> for each start, there should be a line: starting .... with args ...
20100519 21:21:58< fendrin> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/UukcA5mq
20100519 21:22:35< timotei> have you compiled the latest wesnoth?
20100519 21:24:03< fendrin> yes
20100519 21:24:45< timotei> Running: [/home/timo/gw/wesnoth] with args: [-e, , -datadir, /home/timo/gw/]
20100519 21:24:46< timotei> this is mine
20100519 21:25:02< timotei> Running: [/home/fabi/wesnoth_develop/trunk/wesnoth] with args: [-e, , -datadir, /home/fabi/wesnoth_develop/trunk]
20100519 21:25:10< timotei> so... the same
20100519 21:25:31< timotei> very weird
20100519 21:26:19< fendrin> hmmm, let my try out again later.
20100519 21:26:24< fendrin> I am just too tired now.
20100519 21:26:39< timotei> ok, take your time
20100519 21:26:56< timotei> I'll leave noe
20100519 21:27:01< timotei> s/noe/now
20100519 21:27:22< timotei> Crab_, AI0867 please check if it works for you the part of launching the editor. thanks
20100519 21:27:28< timotei> good night everyone
20100519 21:27:32< timotei> night fendrin
20100519 21:27:53< fendrin> timotei: night, sleep well :-)
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20100519 22:00:58< boucman> hey gabba
20100519 22:01:08< gabba> Hey boucman
20100519 22:01:15< boucman> I hadn't left per se, I had troubles with my computer
20100519 22:01:21< boucman> should be fine now :)
20100519 22:01:29< gabba> ah ok :)
20100519 22:04:01-!- Blueblazeattsuck [~nick@adsl-99-182-52-253.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 22:04:10< gabba> boucman: any comments on my email? I guess we could take a quick look at AI0867's problems with the redrawing.
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20100519 22:04:26< boucman> gabba: havn't read yet, doing right away
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20100519 22:04:43< gabba> boucman: I'll probably learn something about the drawing system that way...
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20100519 22:05:35< boucman> hmm
20100519 22:05:40< boucman> odd indeed...
20100519 22:05:51< boucman> gabba: do you have your wip patch somewhere ?
20100519 22:06:04-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-182-52-253.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 22:06:13< gabba> boucman: you mean AI's?
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20100519 22:06:28< boucman> yes
20100519 22:06:48< gabba> boucman: with his latest commit he's basically at the same point I was
20100519 22:07:05< gabba> boucman: you can check it out in the test scenario
20100519 22:07:18< boucman> ok, cool
20100519 22:07:41< gabba> ./wesnoth --log-debug=wml -t
20100519 22:07:48< gabba> to see his debugging messages
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20100519 22:08:41< gabba> Just move a unit to 17,7 "Open the hell" to see the weirdness
20100519 22:10:12< alink> btw you can use :benchmark to exclude any invalidation problem
20100519 22:10:57< alink> looks similar to bugs with set_location
20100519 22:11:31< gabba> what does :benchmark do exactly?
20100519 22:11:50< alink> redraw all the screen each frame
20100519 22:11:59< gabba> ah
20100519 22:12:28< alink> i just thought now that it can also be used to diagnose incomplete redraw bug
20100519 22:13:22< alink> well to exclude them. :sunset is usually the proper tool for that
20100519 22:14:32< alink> mmh you create a fake unit copied from another fake unit. that's new.
20100519 22:14:58< alink> one is hidden but both end in the fake units list
20100519 22:15:47< alink> at least, it's not optimal, you should directly move the original fake unit
20100519 22:17:31< boucman> alink: where in the source are you looking ?
20100519 22:17:34< gabba> alink: yeah, you mean that a fake unit is used to show movement, and this makes a copy of a unit that's already fake
20100519 22:19:06< alink> WML_HANDLER_FUNCTION(move_units_fake) create fake unit and call   unit_display::move_unit which copy it
20100519 22:19:15< gabba> boucman: game_events.cpp line 1132
20100519 22:19:18< gabba> WML_HANDLER_FUNCTION(move_units_fake, /*event_info*/, cfg)
20100519 22:20:43< gabba> I think AI0867 did it this way because it's simpler
20100519 22:21:03< alink> yes it is
20100519 22:21:33< gabba> But the idea would be to eventually move several units simultaneously, for "cutscenes" 
20100519 22:21:51< alink> because unit_display::move_unit always assume that it receive a real unit
20100519 22:22:15< boucman> i would forbid that for the time being, the unit mvt code isn't "fire and forget" and it should be handled at that level...
20100519 22:22:28< alink> we could pull out from it the part strictly moving the fake unit
20100519 22:23:37< gabba> boucman: forbid what exactly?
20100519 22:23:48< boucman> simultaneous movement
20100519 22:23:54< boucman> but that's not our main subject...
20100519 22:24:07< boucman> did anybody try alink's :benchmark trick yet ?
20100519 22:24:29< alink> yes i did, didn't solve the glitches
20100519 22:24:45< alink> but maybe there is a bit less, not sure
20100519 22:24:51< boucman> interesting...
20100519 22:25:02< gabba> boucman: the best for simultaneous movement would be to have a movement animator or something, it seems to me -- but yeah, somewhat off-topic
20100519 22:25:24< alink> i recommend to change the test case, they all pass by the same hex, it's confusing
20100519 22:25:56< boucman> seconded, let's try to move a single unit and see if it works...
20100519 22:27:21< gabba> thirded ;)
20100519 22:27:28< alink> :benchmark did removed lingering units (ones of many) at start position 
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20100519 22:28:26< boucman> it looks as if move_unit works correctly (it does the "between hex" updates) but not move_unit_between
20100519 22:29:39< alink> I suppose it's all casted fine, but do we really need to push std::auto_ptr<unit> into boost::ptr_vector<unit>?
20100519 22:31:40< gabba> boucman: he's not even using move_unit here, is he?
20100519 22:32:09< boucman> where is "here"
20100519 22:32:56< gabba> AI0867 isn't using move_unit in WML_HANDLER_FUNCTION(move_units_fake
20100519 22:33:04< gabba> or at least, it's commented out
20100519 22:34:20< boucman> gabba: indeed
20100519 22:34:31< boucman> well, that would explain a lot :P
20100519 22:34:43< boucman> if you don't call the animation code it's not animated ;)
20100519 22:35:24< alink> mmmh i see unit_display::move_unit calls but i svn up
20100519 22:36:11< alink> ah indeed commented out, so sry all my previous comment were about the version using it :-/
20100519 22:36:37< boucman> k
20100519 22:36:59< gabba> boucman: I knew some drawing or redrawing steps must have been missing, but does that explain why the unit gets "stuck"?
20100519 22:37:28< boucman> partly
20100519 22:37:46< gabba> boucman: i.e. is even just having the unit standing there considered an animation?
20100519 22:37:52< boucman> iiuc the move_unit_fake, we move each unit one step, then move on to the next step
20100519 22:38:24< gabba> yes
20100519 22:39:56< boucman> ok
20100519 22:40:31< alink> ah r42683 also added an disp->invalidate_all() which make my :benchmark trick useless here
20100519 22:41:12< boucman> ouch, my new system can't compile wesnoth atm :(
20100519 22:41:23< gabba> boucman: uh oh
20100519 22:41:33 * boucman just upgraded his ubuntu
20100519 22:41:44< gabba> lucid lynx?
20100519 22:41:54< boucman> /usr/include/boost/multi_index/hashed_index.hpp: In member function ‘void boost::multi_index::detail::hashed_index<KeyFromValue, Hash, Pred, SuperMeta, TagList, Category>::save_(Archive&, unsigned int, const typename SuperMeta::type::index_saver_type&) const’:
20100519 22:41:54< boucman> /usr/include/boost/multi_index/hashed_index.hpp:919: error: ‘serialization’ has not been declared
20100519 22:41:56< boucman> yes
20100519 22:42:17< gabba> I've been putting it off in fear of something like that
20100519 22:43:02< gabba> interesting, it's an error with the famous multi_index I want to use
20100519 22:43:16< gabba> probably a newer boost version with an API change?
20100519 22:43:30< boucman> gabba: seems not too serious, a weird dependency prevented part of boost from upgrading, looking into it...
20100519 22:43:38< gabba> k
20100519 22:45:25< gabba> boucman: I have some stuff to do so I'm gonna log off - I don't think we'll solve this fake units use case right now anyways
20100519 22:46:07< boucman> gabba: ok, see you around for the "real thing"
20100519 22:46:12< gabba> but btw, I had the exact same result if I erased then recreated the fake units at the new position, instead of moving them
20100519 22:46:21< gabba> boucman: yup :D
20100519 22:46:48< boucman> gabba: you mean just the xp, not the unit frame ?
20100519 22:46:50< boucman> hmm
20100519 22:47:18< gabba> yes, the ellipse and health/xp bars only appeared at the right spot
20100519 22:47:59< boucman> k
20100519 22:48:13< boucman> i'll have to check invisibility code first...
20100519 22:48:48< CIA-10> elias * r42725 /trunk/data/tools/unit_tree/animations.py: [wmlunits] Updated animations.html for new animation types.
20100519 22:48:49< gabba> but if the game gets a chance of doing all it's drawing thingies between creation/deletion of fake units, then there's no problem: it's the first thing I tested after implementing fake units
20100519 22:48:51< boucman> ok, it builds again
20100519 22:50:52< gabba> ok, so I'm semi-afk for the next 20 min in case there's a breakthrough :P, and afterwards I'll go
20100519 22:50:57< alink> calling set_standing just after set_location seems to fix most of the bugs 
20100519 22:52:20< alink> yep, reactivate unit_display::move_unit and all is fine
20100519 22:52:42< boucman> alink: move_unit +set_standing ?
20100519 22:53:03< alink> move_unit, set_location, set_standing
20100519 22:53:14< boucman> makes sense...
20100519 22:53:39< boucman> all three are needed (not sure about set_standing, most likely needed, but sure about the two others)
20100519 22:53:54< alink> this is how unit_display::move_unit is used in normal move
20100519 22:54:02< boucman> gabba: ^^^^breakthrough :P
20100519 22:54:20< gabba> omg omg!
20100519 22:54:37< gabba> real nice finding alink. I'm waiting for boucman's enlightened explanation...
20100519 22:54:58< boucman> well, you obviously needs to call move_unit
20100519 22:55:00< alink> set_standing is needed, probably to call start_animation with the new loc_
20100519 22:55:44< alink> invalidate_all() seems not needed anymore
20100519 22:55:51< boucman> and one of the big design decision of the unit_display layer is that it never takes any game-impacting action (iirc, there might be a slight exception for healing) so you (the game engine) needs to move the unit yourself
20100519 22:56:58< gabba> alink: so set_standing starts the animation in the new location... and stops it in the old, or something like that?
20100519 22:57:20< boucman> move_unit doesn't set the unit standing afterward (it leaves it in the last frame of post_mvt) in case you want to do something else afterward, so it's your responsability to set it
20100519 22:57:36-!- Lastmerlin [~Lastmerli@kalypso.csn.tu-chemnitz.de] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org"]
20100519 22:57:41< boucman> set_standing tells the unit to use its standing animation
20100519 22:58:05< alink> gabba: ask boucman for the details :)
20100519 22:58:08< gabba> boucman: i understand how move_unit works, I think: basically it doesn't do anything to the unit "moved"
20100519 22:58:34< gabba> boucman: and the standing animation goes on forever until something stops it?
20100519 22:58:46< boucman> yes, and it leaves you the freedom of what you want the unit to do afterward (which is usually a call to set_standing, but doesn't have to be....)
20100519 22:58:49< alink> slightly untrue for its facing, which is not clean
20100519 22:58:52< boucman> yes
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20100519 22:59:26< boucman> alink: is that wrt my remark regarding not changing the game state ?
20100519 22:59:43< alink> yep, even if facing is not really game state
20100519 23:00:14< boucman> I considered the facing of a unit to be part of how it's displayed, but I agree it could be discussed
20100519 23:00:24< gabba> ok now I understand what was going on... standing animation still going on in the old location, until you start a new animation (standing or another one) in the new location
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20100519 23:01:09< gabba> standing is usually a one-frame animation I guess
20100519 23:01:44< boucman> gabba: not always, think of flying units
20100519 23:01:58< alink> mmh if we pull out the set_hidden(u) of move_unit, we could make it const to better guarantee the "not changing game state"
20100519 23:02:01< gabba> boucman: right
20100519 23:02:50< boucman> alink: well, we need somehow to mark the original (pre-copy) unit not to be drawn
20100519 23:03:15< boucman> and we still somehow need to handle the change in facing, I want the calling code to be as simple as possible
20100519 23:03:20< CIA-10> espreon * r42726 /trunk/data/campaigns/Liberty/images/units/ (27 files in 2 dirs): 
20100519 23:03:20< CIA-10> Ran wesnoth-optipng:
20100519 23:03:20< CIA-10> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20100519 23:03:20< CIA-10> Original size: 77 KiB on 27 files
20100519 23:03:20< CIA-10> Optimized size: 57 KiB
20100519 23:03:21< CIA-10> Total saving: 19 KiB = 25% decrease
20100519 23:03:40< alink> boucman: yes, i mean set it hidden before calling move_unit
20100519 23:04:34< alink> 'dir' is already a parameter, so we know it before calling move_unit
20100519 23:05:00< boucman> i don't know...
20100519 23:05:15< boucman> on the one hand we enforce the read only aspect better
20100519 23:05:29< gabba> alink: with standing added and invalidate_all removed, I seem to get a lot of flicker
20100519 23:05:44< boucman> otoh we make the calls to the unit_display more complicated, with more understanding of the internals needed...
20100519 23:05:51< gabba> even though, it finally works as intended
20100519 23:05:59< boucman> not sure if it's a gain, esp since the unit drawing code is quite stable
20100519 23:06:29< alink> gabba: seems fine here
20100519 23:06:38< boucman> gabba: try with :sunset to make sure there is no extra invalidate_all lying around
20100519 23:09:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100519 23:11:00< alink> boucman: unit_display::move_unit seems not used much (normal move, fake unit(s), teleport, undo/redo). the last 3 one could maybe use a special handling of facing
20100519 23:11:02< gabba> boucman: you're right, there seems to be an extra invalidate_all
20100519 23:12:47< boucman> alink: yes, probably, but i'm not sure it's worth it, if we do that wisdom would have us change all display code not to touch real units, which is not the case at this point, and that's a bit of work and there is nothing "broken" to fix...
20100519 23:12:59< alink> gabba: I don't see another invalidate_all when using :sunset (the only one was line 1182)
20100519 23:13:19< boucman> my paradigm is "don't touch gameplay data" changing it to "don't touch the unit" makes sense too, but it's a different paradigm
20100519 23:13:54< gabba> well, at the end of the movement when the real units are finally placed, there's a flicker and the whole screen is invalidated
20100519 23:13:55< alink> boucman: agreed, but the point was to make it more solid to avoid future breakage :-)
20100519 23:14:41< gabba> alink: I think some (wml?) calling code outside of move_units_fake does it
20100519 23:14:42< alink> gabba: at the complete end, it's probably normal WML event stuff
20100519 23:15:18< boucman> alink: (pursuing the secondary discussion) not sure we even gain much on that side since it would be more complicated for the user of the unit_display, so more bug outside the unit display engine, for more solidity in an area which is heavily tested and has no known bugs...
20100519 23:16:51< alink> boucman: agreed, it must not be done without new helper, and if not possible to help, then don't do it
20100519 23:17:29< boucman> gabba: what's suprising is that alink doesn't get it... could you both post a svn diff so we can compare ,
20100519 23:18:15< boucman> elias: thx for units.wesnoth.org
20100519 23:18:41< gabba> boucman: no, we just agreed that we see the same thing, i.e. a flicker at the complete end
20100519 23:18:43< alink> boucman: no i get it (the normal one at the end of the event). I wanted to say that i don't have one during animation (as before, which was bad debug stuff)
20100519 23:18:45-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100519 23:18:54< elias> boucman: oh, btw, should i also commit this to the 1.8 branch?
20100519 23:19:05< alink> boucman: on a related note, the current trick about set_location+set_standing is a bit error-prone and has already bitten us in the past
20100519 23:19:22< gabba> I'm cleaning up all the test code, and I'll commit it soon
20100519 23:19:27< boucman> elias: yes, nothing has changed in that area since branching IIRC
20100519 23:20:18< boucman> alink: yes, I know, but doing it the other way round (i.e changing the real unit's location behind the caller's back) is error-prone too in a different way...
20100519 23:20:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100519 23:21:04< alink> boucman: maybe a unit could detect when its location has changed (when set_location is called) and try to call related animation code (set_standing by default)  or something like that
20100519 23:21:10< gabba> maybe set_location should "transfer" the current animation to the new location
20100519 23:21:23< gabba> ^yeah
20100519 23:21:27< alink> gabba:  stop reading my mind :)
20100519 23:21:36< gabba> alink: no, you read mine :P
20100519 23:23:12< CIA-10> elias * r42727 /branches/1.8/data/tools/unit_tree/animations.py: [wmlunits] Updated animations.html for new animation types. (backported from trunk)
20100519 23:23:16< boucman> maybe someday :)
20100519 23:26:47< CIA-10> gabba * r42728 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Fixed move_unit_fake, what was missing was restarting the unit animation in the correct hex, which we do here with set_standing
20100519 23:27:33< gabba> Thanks alink and boucman for your help, now I've gotta go
20100519 23:27:56< boucman> i'll leave in 5' anyway
20100519 23:27:58< alink> gabba: you are welcome
20100519 23:27:59< boucman> see you
20100519 23:28:10< gabba> bye all
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20100519 23:33:09< alink> gabba: I assume that the resources::screen->delay(400) was also debug stuff ?
20100519 23:33:30< alink> unless it's to better show each moves (?)
20100519 23:34:27< alink> afk
20100519 23:48:35-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20100519 23:55:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 106 bugs, 281 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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--- Log closed Thu May 20 00:00:00 2010