--- Log opened Wed May 26 00:00:37 2010
20100526 00:05:22< gabba> boucman: so, just to make sure, the plan is to keep everything in display.cpp/.h? Right now the plan is to add 3 methods to class display, to make class display be a "public arrow_observer", and to add the new class display::arrow
20100526 00:06:02< boucman> gabba: that's what I understood from your UML, yes
20100526 00:06:32< gabba> ok, I was still feeling a bit uneasy about bloating these files even more
20100526 00:06:33< boucman> the arrow class will be in new files, but I don't think functions are worth spliting display.*pp for
20100526 00:07:51< gabba> boucman: oh, so you're saying the class declaration for arrow would go in display.h, but then I add an arrow.cpp file?
20100526 00:08:29< gabba> sounds messy to me, why not just make arrow a top-level class with its own files?
20100526 00:08:29< boucman> oh, sorry, I hadn't read the end of your comment
20100526 00:09:14< boucman> i'd rather have arrow be toplevel or entirely in display.*pp, 
20100526 00:09:38< boucman> I think you should put it in display.*pp at least at the beginning, we might move it around later
20100526 00:10:38< gabba> alright, I'm not sure I understand the why of this in the grand scheme of things, but as long as I can insert my code somewhere...
20100526 00:11:18< boucman> :P
20100526 00:11:49< boucman> i'm not sure anybody does, my general policy is of thinking which of the two is easier to switch if we change our mind...
20100526 00:13:08< boucman> gabba: you'll be here tomorow ?
20100526 00:15:43< AI0867> Ivanovic: I did so after I saw your changelog change. I didn't see the bug report at first
20100526 00:15:49< gabba> boucman: yes, even though I'll probably interrupt work several times to go to the pool and take showers, because of the brain-melting heat
20100526 00:16:54< gabba> boucman: temperature suddently went up from the low 20s to 30-35, so it's kind of hard to think straight
20100526 00:17:50< gabba> I wish I could go install Ubuntu on a computer in an air-conditioned library :P
20100526 00:19:16< boucman> hehe, today was hot for us too
20100526 00:19:24< boucman> ok, see you tomorow, time for bed here
20100526 00:19:26< boucman> night all
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20100526 00:33:57< norbert_> at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MultiplayerServerWML where the password in the [login] client response it mentioned, I've linked to http://forum.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=41145
20100526 00:34:36< norbert_> I hope that's okay
20100526 00:37:17< norbert_> I'm still working on getting the hashed password that wesirc generates to be right
20100526 00:38:29< norbert_> now hopefully I'll be able to fix that stuff quicker
20100526 00:38:50< norbert_> anyways, I'm off again; if the link is a problem, feel free to remove it
20100526 00:38:53< norbert_> later
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20100526 00:48:14< AI0867> Soliton: you left a "TODO remove after 1.7" in unit.cpp in r33688
20100526 00:49:44-!- Sapient [~patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 00:49:57< Sapient> esr: hi
20100526 00:50:43< Sapient> there is a question for the Wesnoth Historian in the User Forum
20100526 00:51:11< Sapient> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=430243#p430243
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20100526 01:00:59< CIA-86> ai0867 * r42882 /trunk/changelog: Add bug number to changelog
20100526 01:01:06< CIA-86> ai0867 * r42883 /trunk/src/multiplayer_connect.cpp: Add a message to indicate that sufficient players have joined, but they haven't yet picked a faction
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20100526 01:12:44< noy> Sapient: do you know of a bug with the timer that causes crashes?
20100526 01:14:31< Sapient> noy, no I never had a timer-related crash
20100526 01:14:48< noy> because there are two complaints about it I just heard
20100526 01:15:00< Sapient> then again, I'm sure a lot of things have changes since I worked on the timer
20100526 01:15:08< noy> that it happens when someone tries to make a turn at the end of the timer that causes a crash
20100526 01:15:45< Sapient> you mean before or after the end of the timer?
20100526 01:17:16< noy> not sure
20100526 01:17:28< noy> I;m not sure if they know either...
20100526 01:17:33< Sapient> well it's news to me
20100526 01:17:48< noy> just that when they make their moves close to that point it causes a crash
20100526 01:17:50< Sapient> if they can produce a backtrace that would be useful
20100526 01:18:29< Sapient> it would likely pinpoint the problem down to a specific file and function
20100526 01:19:14< Sapient> if they can't do that, the next best thing would be detailed instructions to reproduce the error consistently
20100526 01:23:58< AI0867> I heard it was just an OOS
20100526 01:24:22< AI0867> where the person made the move just before the timer ran out, and the timer on the other clients ran out before they received the move
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20100526 01:25:52< Sapient> ah, well that would make sense
20100526 01:26:03< Sapient> each client tracks the time separately
20100526 01:26:40< Sapient> so due to network latency it is actually conceivable that the other clients think your turn ended before they got your last second move
20100526 01:29:05< Sapient> this could be especially true if the person making the move was having network problems
20100526 01:33:10< Sapient> I think I remember reading a comment about the turn-ending mechanism being less than ideal when I first started modding the timer
20100526 01:34:36< Sapient> ideally, the turn-ending mechanism should be sychronized and each client would still simply emit a warning if it wasn't received in the expected timeframe
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20100526 01:35:50< Sapient> this could however, lead to some awkward situations if someone had left a modal dialog open while their timer ran out
20100526 01:36:07< Sapient> all the other players would be waiting and think he was cheating
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20100526 01:39:20< AI0867> I just found some backwards compatibility code for 1.2 and 1.2.1....
20100526 01:39:49< Espreon> Oh?
20100526 01:40:27-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 01:43:12< Sapient>  backwards compatibility is not always a bad thing, you know
20100526 01:43:51< Sapient> it should go through a deprecation cycle before being removed
20100526 01:49:20< AI0867> heh
20100526 01:54:32< CIA-86> eleazar * r42884 /trunk/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs): I goofed with the dry hills. Now they are properly aliased to regular hills so units can walk on them. Also map tweaks to aOI.
20100526 01:58:52< AI0867> silene: is there a way to get the equivalent of lexical_cast<int>() rather than lexical_cast_default<int>() with the new config attributes, other than getting the string first to convert it?
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20100526 02:42:23< Bzar> Espreon: you mean this channel? =)
20100526 02:42:31-!- zhoubug [~river@218.249.160.100] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 02:42:50< Espreon> Bzar: Jeß.
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20100526 02:49:22< norbert_> hi all
20100526 02:49:24< norbert_> I have a request
20100526 02:49:37< norbert_> I managed to get my wesirc bot working
20100526 02:49:43< norbert_> it can now talk with users in the lobby
20100526 02:50:12< norbert_> but I noticed that wesnothd is giving out warnings that "you are sending too many messages too fast. Your message has not been relayed"
20100526 02:50:34< norbert_> if several people chat with a bot and the bot has auto-replies...
20100526 02:50:45< norbert_> people may think their messages were not received
20100526 02:51:25< norbert_> the request is if we can discuss what would be a good solution for this problem
20100526 02:52:26< norbert_> private messages (/whisper) could be a solution
20100526 02:52:56< norbert_> but it would be nice if feedback in the lobby also works
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20100526 02:54:57< norbert_> no one is ever here, it seems
20100526 02:55:15< norbert_> I guess I will just build in a timer and wait a second before each answer
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20100526 03:03:46< Upthorn> Crab_: I updated my timeline and provided due-dates for each of the items on the mandatory goals list. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup#Include_an_estimated_timeline_for_your_work_on_the_project._Don.27t_forget_to_mention_special_things_like_.22I_booked_holidays_between_A_and_B.22_and_.22I_got_an_exam_at_ABC_and_won.27t_be_doing_much_then.22. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup#Deliv
20100526 03:03:53< Upthorn> is this sufficient?
20100526 03:04:05< Crab_> thanks, I'll take a look now
20100526 03:04:22< Upthorn> err, second link got cut off. It should be http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_JodyNorthup#Deliverables
20100526 03:07:45-!- Christt|AFK is now known as Christheturtle
20100526 03:10:03< CIA-86> ai0867 * r42885 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: Remove 1.6->1.8 compatibility code (loading lua wml-tags if not specified in save)
20100526 03:10:10< CIA-86> ai0867 * r42886 /trunk/src/ (game.cpp random.cpp rng.hpp): Remove the --no-srng switch and its implementation. It should have been removed before 1.8.0
20100526 03:13:07< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, it looks good. I see that only the pessimistic timeline is modified, but that should be enough. I'd suggest rescheduling the deadlines for 'present new WML capabilities to UMC authors on wesnoth's forums.' and 'wiki documentation/manual page' to july 27th, to make sure you've got working (maybe buggy) MP support before presenting the new capabilities.
20100526 03:19:21< Upthorn> Ok.
20100526 03:21:19< Upthorn> That was a discrepancy between the timeline and the deliverables list, anyway
20100526 03:23:33< Crab_> in time, you will need to code a dialog to manage persistence data. mordante is the best person to ask about it, but, overall, it's rather easy - gui2 dialog has two parts - a c++ part (actual implementation) and a WML part (layout of various widgets)
20100526 03:25:10< Crab_> wml part is in data/gui/default/window/ 
20100526 03:25:32< Crab_> c++ part is in src/gui/dialogs/
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20100526 03:33:19< norbert_> is anyone here?
20100526 03:33:28< Espreon> Jeß.
20100526 03:33:39< norbert_> Espreon, I have a question
20100526 03:33:50< norbert_> I wrote code that auto-connects to a wesnothd
20100526 03:33:56< norbert_> and it works fine for a wesnothd on localhost
20100526 03:34:04< norbert_> but there's something going on with server.wesnoth.org
20100526 03:34:15< norbert_> and I wonder who controls it
20100526 03:34:23< norbert_> and if that person could check the logs or whatever
20100526 03:34:57< norbert_> even when I run a simple expect script, the server disconnects me right after I send the first line (handshake)
20100526 03:35:10< norbert_> spawn telnet server.wesnoth.org 15000 expect "Escape character is *\n" send "\0\0\0\0"
20100526 03:35:13< norbert_> and then I'm disconnected
20100526 03:35:25< norbert_> and the C code I wrote works just fine, but for some reason, not with server.wesnoth.org
20100526 03:35:42< norbert_> same thing, instead of giving me a connection number, it disconnects me
20100526 03:35:56< norbert_> a wesnothd at localhost just starts giving me gzip packages
20100526 03:36:22< Espreon> I'd ask Rhonda or Soliton.
20100526 03:37:13< norbert_> cool, I will
20100526 03:41:57< Crab_> norbert_: can you try it now on 1.8 MP ?
20100526 03:42:50< norbert_> done
20100526 03:42:56< norbert_> 3 more
20100526 03:43:24< norbert_> I'm not really sure if I need to use fcntl(*iSockFd, F_SETFL, O_NONBLOCK);
20100526 03:43:34< norbert_> I do it when using localhost
20100526 03:43:54< norbert_> probably don't need it
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20100526 03:44:58< norbert_> if I do it with the server, it's not sending me data back
20100526 03:45:40< Crab_> norbert_: nothing special in the server logs
20100526 03:47:05< silene> AI0867: no, feel free to add to_*_strict (or whatever the name) versions of the functions if you need them
20100526 03:48:39< Crab_> norbert_: but those are nondebug logs, so, you can still ask Soliton
20100526 03:49:16< Crab_> norbert_: in general, there's no need for nonblocking sockets in there..
20100526 03:50:13< Crab_> norbert_: your bot can have 1 thread, use it for communication with server, and block on read/write, and it'll work ok.
20100526 03:57:41< Crab_> Upthorn: how do you want to test your SP persistence ?
20100526 03:58:22< Crab_> Upthorn: for example, what do you think about writing a group of 'unit test' scenarios for that?
20100526 03:59:22< Crab_> i.e. 'a scenario which will do various operations with persistent variables, call get_ and set_ , do some calculations and loudly complain if something is broken.', or a group of scenarios to be launched in sequence...
20100526 04:10:16< CIA-86> silene * r42887 /branches/1.8/changelog: Mentioned last commit in the changelog.
20100526 04:14:51< norbert_> I think I know why it was not working
20100526 04:15:06< norbert_> which is pretty sweet :)
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20100526 04:17:54< silene> gabba: don't put "using std::map" all over the place; if your map types are too long, then just typedef them, it will be clearer and shorter than just skipping std
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20100526 04:21:10< norbert_> wooot!
20100526 04:21:12< norbert_> it's working!
20100526 04:21:40< un214> wooot!
20100526 04:22:07< norbert_> bot is now on the MP server
20100526 04:22:14< un214> what do you suppose the response on the MP server to games stating "modified client required" would be?
20100526 04:22:31< un214> norbert_: want
20100526 04:22:39< norbert_> hehe
20100526 04:22:53< norbert_> I'll upload the code to the forum in about half an hour
20100526 04:23:11< norbert_> thread is http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29840
20100526 04:23:18< un214> I have it bookmarked.
20100526 04:23:49< un214> I would have an easy cheating on MP if I wanted to
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20100526 04:47:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.2 planned on 31st May, stringfreeze for branches/1.8! | 112 bugs, 281 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100526 05:00:45< norbert_> Crab_, I found the solution and it works now
20100526 05:00:52< norbert_> the problem was related to \0 chars
20100526 05:01:31< Crab_> norbert_: great
20100526 05:02:15< norbert_> but now connects, redirects if instructed, pongs the pings, logs in with the right hashed password, displays all data, and replies to messages directed at it
20100526 05:02:19< norbert_> *bot
20100526 05:02:48< norbert_> so basically, I'm read with the basics and can now start implementing the bot itself
20100526 05:03:53< Crab_> are there issues left ? or everything seems to be working ?
20100526 05:04:04< Crab_> and, that's great. I think that I'll wait for billynux's implementation of network stack to code my own bot, too
20100526 05:04:05< norbert_> no issues left
20100526 05:04:38< norbert_> what will billynux code?
20100526 05:05:09< Crab_> (c++) a library for wesnoth network client to use, and the server side of it, too
20100526 05:05:16< Crab_> using boost::asio
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20100526 05:23:14< CIA-86> gabba * r42888 /trunk/src/ (6 files): 
20100526 05:23:14< CIA-86> Initial skeleton for the arrows framework.
20100526 05:23:14< CIA-86> New file arrow.cpp added to cmake and scons, but not automake.
20100526 05:24:06< norbert_> Crab_: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=430396#p430396
20100526 05:24:25< Crab_> norbert_: looking..
20100526 05:24:56< norbert_> now I can finally start working on the fun part
20100526 05:25:01< Crab_> norbert_: btw, we can also use that bot to implement one of the feature requests of the ladder guys
20100526 05:25:29< norbert_> I'm now going to make sure the bot will handle requests to input or output data at wsrsw.org
20100526 05:26:01< Crab_> norbert_: that one, https://gna.org/bugs/?15798
20100526 05:26:12< norbert_> like "wsrsw: what map pack contains <scenario name>"
20100526 05:26:33< norbert_> and then the bot checks on wsrsw.org and says "<user>: it is in <map pack name>"
20100526 05:27:10< norbert_> oh yeah, that random number generation is a piece of cake
20100526 05:28:02< Crab_> it can work like "dice player1name player2name" command, and reply the result (privately) to both players (to avoid flooding the channel)
20100526 05:28:42< norbert_> yep
20100526 05:30:15< norbert_> ladder matches are always 1vs1, right?
20100526 05:31:23< Crab_> depends on the rules of the specific ladder. afair, I know only of a 1vs1 ladder atm .
20100526 05:32:09< norbert_> I will implement the random number generator tomorrow
20100526 05:32:33< norbert_> and from then on put the bot on the server permanently
20100526 05:32:57< norbert_> for now with a bash script that will auto-reconnect if the bot disconnects
20100526 05:33:01< Crab_> norbert_: the bot should have autoreconnect, yes
20100526 05:33:37< norbert_> for now that'll work
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20100526 05:34:42< Crab_> norbert_: I think that it'll be a good idea to ask the ladder guys to setup their own bot based on your sources.
20100526 05:35:26< Crab_> norbert_: also, make sure that you avoid writing to public channel in the lobby, unless absolutely necessary.
20100526 05:35:45< norbert_> yes, I will
20100526 05:35:52< norbert_> @avoid w...
20100526 05:36:17< norbert_> right now it writes to the lobby, but it's just to show that stuff works
20100526 05:36:20< Crab_> norbert_: also, make sure that you provide some kind of contact info for the bot, to allow MP mods to know whom to notify if there are issues.
20100526 05:36:21< norbert_> will continue to work on it
20100526 05:36:48< norbert_> you mean like a /whisper wsrsw help
20100526 05:36:56< norbert_> and then it gives the available comments + contact info
20100526 05:36:57< norbert_> ?
20100526 05:37:10< norbert_> my e-mail address is already in the code
20100526 05:37:34< Crab_> norbert_: a clear indication that that is a bot (in a name, maybe), and yes, something like 'help'
20100526 05:38:26< Crab_> norbert_: I am ok with bots on wesnoth's MP server, but there should be a easy and common way to trace a bot back to its owner, and the bot shouldn't ever flood the public channel.
20100526 05:38:40< norbert_> if people message it instead of whisper I'll probably make it auto-reply something like 'please /whisper to me; use /whisper wsrsw help for more information'
20100526 05:39:13< Crab_> norbert_: make sure that two bots don't go into endless loop of such replies if one of them messages another :)
20100526 05:39:29< norbert_> :)
20100526 05:40:29< Crab_> norbert_: also, a good thing will be to contact noy and ask him to ack some rules for bots on wesnoth's mp server, to make sure he's involved.
20100526 05:40:48< noy> well actually I wanted to speak to you about that
20100526 05:40:52< norbert_> haha
20100526 05:40:53< norbert_> :)
20100526 05:41:02< noy> Because I'd actually rather not have bots on the server
20100526 05:41:15< norbert_> noy is the boo-man in Wesnoth world
20100526 05:41:29< noy> at least until the new lobby interface is working
20100526 05:41:29< norbert_> afraid of new developments ;)
20100526 05:41:49< noy> well norbert_ no, youre just not tactfull enough to go and ask about what you're doing
20100526 05:41:53< Crab_> noy: new lobby interface would give us rooms, right ?
20100526 05:42:11< noy> that was the intent, though it seems dead in the water for the time being
20100526 05:42:36< norbert_> noy, but I want to involve people who're interested or who should know things
20100526 05:42:38< Crab_> noy: I will work to fix those rooms/channels later
20100526 05:42:38< noy> The lobby is not intended for chatting
20100526 05:42:49< norbert_> I'm just a bit of a noob when it comes to who is involved and wants to know things
20100526 05:43:04< noy> Well when its working Crab then it might be a better time to consider it.
20100526 05:43:07< norbert_> but I'm currently working on a bot that will allow users to interact with wsrsw.org
20100526 05:43:28< Crab_> noy: maybe just forbid bots to send anything to a public channel and demand them to have something like '[bot]' in their name ?
20100526 05:43:28< norbert_> I want to bot to act as a bridge
20100526 05:43:44< noy> see for what reason norbert_ ?
20100526 05:44:08< noy> As much as I hate to say it, wesnoth doesn't do well with "populist sentiment"
20100526 05:44:25< norbert_> I would like users to be able to ask the bot about scenarios or to vote for scenarios by whispering to the bot instead of logging in at wsrsw.org
20100526 05:44:46< noy> or else we'd be making colosseum maps and playing at 30xp 
20100526 05:45:08< noy> And map development doesn't really happen the way you suggest either
20100526 05:45:12< norbert_> what do you think of this idea, noy?
20100526 05:45:21< noy> I think its unnecessary
20100526 05:45:38< norbert_> that reminds me of the deletionists at Wikipedia
20100526 05:45:59< norbert_> they delete articles or try to prevent people from creating them because they think those articles would be unnecessary
20100526 05:46:13< norbert_> I'm a Wesnoth user
20100526 05:46:23< noy> Okay, so how do map scenarios get made and balanced?
20100526 05:46:31< norbert_> and I would like to be able to talk with a bot, that would auto-update my votes at wsrsw.org
20100526 05:46:59< norbert_> and I want to be able to ask the bot what map pack a scenario is in
20100526 05:47:08< noy> Okay, so you want to do that, then someone would like to get their own bot on about their favorite faction
20100526 05:47:22< noy> we have a no advertisement rule on the mp server for that reason
20100526 05:47:32< noy> because we don't want it spammed with everybody's bot
20100526 05:47:33< norbert_> Crab_ made a suggestion
20100526 05:47:57< norbert_> <Crab_> noy: maybe just forbid bots to send anything to a public channel and demand them to have something like '[bot]' in their name ?
20100526 05:48:23< noy> That doesn't make it "better"
20100526 05:48:24< norbert_> and I would like to add to that, that the bots aren't allowed to send information to users unless they contacted the bots first
20100526 05:48:33< noy> it still just spam for alot of people.
20100526 05:48:45< norbert_> which means that nobody receives spam
20100526 05:48:54< noy> Great, then what's the point?
20100526 05:49:25< noy> I can't see there being a huge wave of people who would use the bot to rate scenarios?
20100526 05:49:39< norbert_> irrelevant
20100526 05:49:44< norbert_> no point is needed
20100526 05:49:55< norbert_> are you okay with the bots I (we) described
20100526 05:50:12< norbert_> noy, you're an interesting person
20100526 05:50:26< Crab_> norbert_: let's not get personal
20100526 05:50:59< noy> Well I'm trying to determine what is the utility of this, compared to the negative effects.
20100526 05:51:46< noy> I know how our best map developers do their work, like TL, jb and Bob the Mighty.
20100526 05:52:02< noy> And have a decent idea of how other developers do it as well
20100526 05:52:04< norbert_> I don't understand what map development has to do with this
20100526 05:52:17< norbert_> I will give you an example
20100526 05:52:20< noy> Then whats the point of this?
20100526 05:52:25< noy> you've got 10 minues
20100526 05:52:32< noy> because I need to go get food
20100526 05:52:45< Crab_> in general, mp server bots allow a person to augment the capabilities of the MP server for 'interested' people, without disturbing everyone else and without need to add anything to wesnoth's sources.
20100526 05:52:55< Crab_> for example, a bot can easily deal with FR such as https://gna.org/bugs/?15798
20100526 05:53:21< Crab_> the interested people would know how to use it, others won't notice.
20100526 05:53:28< noy> Maybe, but that could also be done as part of the game
20100526 05:53:40< noy> as part of the core program
20100526 05:53:44< norbert_> someone asked me what map pack contains 3p - Survival today
20100526 05:53:45< Crab_> there are policy issues - not all things are for core.
20100526 05:53:49< noy> and that might be a better way of dealing with it. 
20100526 05:54:00< Crab_> for example, ladder ratings are not included in core, and won't ever be.
20100526 05:54:07< norbert_> I want to be able to /whisper bot what map pack 3p - Survival
20100526 05:54:19< norbert_> and it can tell me norbert_ it is in Nosmos' SurvivalPack
20100526 05:54:33< norbert_> because the bot checks the database that's also being used for http://www.wsrsw.org/addon.php?name=3p%20-%20Survival
20100526 05:54:34< Crab_> but,nothing prevents anyone from using a bot to do that, and noone else would notice anything.
20100526 05:54:58< Crab_> and it will work even if we hide the bots from the user list, so a person who doesn't know about a particular bot won't ever notice it.
20100526 05:55:41< norbert_> or I want to add 3p - Survival to my favorites on wsrsw
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20100526 05:56:03< norbert_> or I want to check what eras are used a lot
20100526 05:56:20< norbert_> but it shouldn't matter what I want to use it for
20100526 05:56:29< norbert_> because then you're judging this the wrong way
20100526 05:56:32< noy> yes it should matter what you use it for. 
20100526 05:56:37< norbert_> it doesn't matter if you think it's interesting
20100526 05:56:45< norbert_> because it's not a noy-bot
20100526 05:57:15< noy> I'm getting tired of this norbert_ 
20100526 05:57:18< norbert_> if there are rules that prevent the bots from annoying people, it should not matter
20100526 05:58:30< noy> honestly, you almost had me above, but your last five lines make me want to have a no bot policy. 
20100526 05:59:52< noy> or at least only ones sanctioned by us
20100526 06:00:25< norbert_> norbert_> which means that nobody receives spam <noy> Great, then what's the point?
20100526 06:00:34< norbert_> if it's okay, let's get back to that
20100526 06:00:57< norbert_> Crab_ mentioned how a bot could throw dice
20100526 06:01:02< norbert_> I gave some other examples
20100526 06:01:21< norbert_> there are things that, in our opinion, could be useful
20100526 06:01:42< norbert_> bots never message only whisper
20100526 06:01:43< noy> Great, I also have to weigh the implications of having a bot
20100526 06:01:49< norbert_> and only reply when talked to
20100526 06:02:24< norbert_> what negative implications do you foresee?
20100526 06:02:34< norbert_> if people abide by the bot rules, I mean
20100526 06:03:11< noy> I've got to go
20100526 06:03:18< noy> I'll be back in 20 some minutes
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20100526 06:29:10< noy> back... but eating
20100526 06:29:53< norbert_> :)
20100526 06:29:55< norbert_> welcome back
20100526 06:57:11-!- k23z__ [k23z__@unaffiliated/k23z--/x-2536701] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 07:02:15< ancestral> Is it me, or does it seem out of place to have a portrait tags with presentation markup inside a unit file?
--- Log opened Wed May 26 07:32:59 2010
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20100526 07:33:07-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.8.2 planned on 31st May, stringfreeze for branches/1.8! | 112 bugs, 281 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100526 07:33:07-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Wed May 26 04:47:52 2010]
20100526 07:33:07[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100526 07:33:07[ AI0867   ] [ crimson_penguin] [ isaac     ] [ shadowmaster] 
20100526 07:33:07[ ancestral] [ Elvish_Pillager] [ Ivanovic  ] [ shikadibot  ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ AnMaster ] [ Espreon        ] [ k23z__    ] [ silene      ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ apoi     ] [ esr            ] [ knotwork_ ] [ Smar        ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ Blueblaze] [ ettin          ] [ lobby     ] [ Tigge       ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ Bocom_   ] [ FAAB           ] [ nagbot    ] [ Upth        ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ chris|   ] [ fendrin        ] [ nguyenatto] [ Upthorn     ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ CIA-86   ] [ freim          ] [ norbert_  ] [ Vetinari    ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ cjhopman_] [ Greywhind      ] [ noy       ] [ wesbot      ] 
20100526 07:33:07[ Crab_    ] [ Ingmar         ] [ Rhonda    ] 
20100526 07:33:07-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 39 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 39 normal]
20100526 07:33:11-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20100526 07:33:20< Crab_> FAAB: looked at the patch again, all seems ok, but a bit short on time to commit it now, will do so later.
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20100526 07:33:57< FAAB> if there is some cleaning up just let me now I might have more free time than you
20100526 07:34:17-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 77 secs
20100526 07:34:36< Crab_> well, no, the things I'll change when committing are very minor 
20100526 07:34:58< Crab_> so, I just need to recompile once more :)
20100526 07:35:17< FAAB> Crab_: Ok then, I will check the new version to improve next patches
20100526 07:39:21< Crab_> FAAB: well, 1) you can bind const reference to a temporary, the lifetime of the temporary will be extended to cover the lifetime of the const reference 2) the changelog entry is somewhat misleading, as sort_order can be used inside mainline [ais][ai], too, not only in eras.
20100526 07:39:52< Crab_> FAAB: so, no need to redo the patch, those are too minor issues.
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20100526 07:48:17< kevg> hi
20100526 08:01:23-!- erl [~erl@vetinte.spelaroll.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 08:04:59< norbert_> noy
20100526 08:05:16< norbert_> Soliton
20100526 08:05:36< norbert_> if you have the time, could you take a look at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MultiplayerServerBots
20100526 08:06:04< norbert_> it's a quick draft
20100526 08:06:30< norbert_> with what I have in mind when it comes to a possible bot on the MP server
20100526 08:07:08< norbert_> Soliton, this is related to http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29840
20100526 08:07:18< noy> thank you... I'll take it into consideration when I write a final version. 
20100526 08:08:27-!- Greywhind [~Greywhind@vtelinet-66-220-255-139.vermontel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100526 08:08:43< norbert_> okay, thanks; now I have to go to bed :)
20100526 08:08:50< norbert_> bye all
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20100526 08:51:56 * Rhonda blinks at norbert. "Favorited"?!
20100526 08:53:10< Rhonda> And a back button for the search when displaying a campaign would be also quite useful.
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20100526 11:13:22< timotei> Ivanovic: how can we do with the hosting of the eclipse plugin? We need a hosting space (but not on svn)
20100526 11:25:50< Crab_> timotei: I can help you host the development version of the plugin, for the time being.
20100526 11:26:21< timotei> Crab_: well, ok, i'll ping you later (+ 6h)
20100526 11:26:35< Crab_> timotei: ok. +8h will be better.
20100526 11:26:57< timotei> Crab_: ok:P
20100526 11:27:15< timotei> Crab_: I've manged to test some ant incremental copying, and it works good.
20100526 11:27:22< Crab_> timotei: great.
20100526 11:27:30< timotei> Crab_: but now trying to integrate it with the plugin, and don't know how to handle the dependencies...
20100526 11:27:55< timotei> I need two ant jars, I've tryed with "class path variables" but when running them, it doesn't find an ant class
20100526 11:28:28< timotei> do you know how should I make it work? (the part with "addind" the dependencies, without putting them on svn
20100526 11:29:39< Crab_> I'd google for org.eclipse.ant.core
20100526 11:30:12< timotei> ok
20100526 11:30:35< Crab_> also, as a fallback solution, you can always run ant from command-line (adding the 'put ant into %path% to prerequisites'
20100526 11:31:14< timotei> Crab_: well, right now I use the classes from ant-launcher.jar; that works beautifull from a project where i've added the jars in the project as dependencies
20100526 11:31:46< timotei> I don't want to bother running commands, or invoking. better let the launcher do this things, cause surely it's done optimal
20100526 11:33:45< timotei> but in the end I'll use whatever works
20100526 11:34:53< Crab_> ok. will there be a alpha version of the plugin before your exams period starts ?
20100526 11:35:14< timotei> Crab_: well... I think so.
20100526 11:35:29< timotei> I start exams next friday/saturday
20100526 11:35:40< timotei> that's 29 may
20100526 11:36:27< timotei> Crab_: the alpha version you're talking about, is meant to be the "packed" and installable from an update site version? or just on svn?
20100526 11:38:10< Crab_> timotei: yes, I think it should be something packed
20100526 11:38:19< timotei> Crab_: ok
20100526 11:38:30< Crab_> timotei: you can do all the necessary preparations by hand, no need to automate it atm
20100526 11:38:36< timotei> Crab_: I'll try anyway to do my best and deliver it
20100526 11:38:57< Crab_> (see http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-PDE-Automation/automation.html for the notes on how it can be automated)
20100526 11:39:44< timotei> yes. thanks. I have it already in my bookmarks
20100526 11:40:16< Crab_> ok
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20100526 11:42:32< Rhonda> wesbot: seen silence
20100526 11:42:32< wesbot> Rhonda: Sorry, I don't know of silence.
20100526 11:42:40 * Rhonda bonks wesbot over the head.
20100526 11:42:55 * Rhonda bonks herself over the head.
20100526 11:42:57< Rhonda> wesbot: seen silene
20100526 11:42:58< wesbot> Rhonda: The person with the nick silene last spoke 7h 25m ago.  1h 55m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100526 11:43:02< timotei> :))
20100526 11:45:47< Ivanovic> hi
20100526 11:46:04< timotei> hi Ivanovic
20100526 11:46:35< Ivanovic> timotei: since i got no idea what hosting you talk about: no idea how to handle the hosting
20100526 11:47:13< timotei> Ivanovic: we need some space to host a little "update site" that will contain some .html files and some .jar files
20100526 11:47:25< timotei> Ivanovic: don't think it will take more than 10 mbs
20100526 11:47:30< timotei> s/mbs/MBs
20100526 11:47:49< Ivanovic> ehm, don't we already have this site under eclipse.wesnoth.org?
20100526 11:48:22< timotei> Ivanovic: well, yeah, but it's not good to host this kind of files on SVN
20100526 11:48:28< timotei> Ivanovic: that is, only source files.
20100526 11:48:43< Rhonda> What's the preffered build system these days? scons? cmake? Which way to go from autofoo?
20100526 11:48:54< Ivanovic> timotei: in fact we got a part of the svn tree that is explicitly meant to be for website stuff!
20100526 11:49:02< Ivanovic> instead of trunk check website/
20100526 11:49:10< timotei> let me see
20100526 11:49:11< Ivanovic> and yeah, i am perfectly fine with putting binary files in there
20100526 11:49:24< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/website/
20100526 11:49:38< timotei> Ok, then I will move the binary files there.
20100526 11:49:59< Soliton> how are those generated?
20100526 11:50:28< Ivanovic> if the binary files are easily auto generated via some scripts this could be done on the server, too
20100526 11:51:00< timotei> Ivanovic: right now I haven't automated the building
20100526 11:51:10< timotei> Soliton: it's the .jar files that are the eclipse plugin
20100526 11:52:07< Soliton> so write a makefile/script/whatever to generate them and we'll run that on wesnoth.org.
20100526 11:52:26< timotei> yes, that will be done in the future (aka, after the exams)
20100526 11:52:33< Soliton> checking in binaries that are simply generated from the sources in svn is silly.
20100526 11:53:49< Soliton> if it's difficult to fully automate we can also give you an account on wesnoth.org.
20100526 11:54:23< timotei> Soliton: don't really know right now. 
20100526 11:54:49< Soliton> seems to me like it should be as simple as writing a build.xml for ant or something though.
20100526 11:54:59< timotei> Soliton: yes...
20100526 11:55:36< timotei> Soliton: but there may be unknown problems, so I'm not promising anything yet :-)
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20100526 11:55:51< Soliton> sure.
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20100526 12:56:14< fendrin> timotei: hello
20100526 12:56:26< timotei> hey fendrin
20100526 13:02:41< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42889 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Russian and Slovak translation
20100526 13:02:50< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42890 /trunk/po/ (52 files in 26 dirs): updated Russian and Slovak translation
20100526 13:16:29< Crab_> timotei: around ?
20100526 13:16:58< timotei> Crab_: yes. just "fixed" the ant thingy. it seems to work without the 2 jars, but with "org.eclipse.ant". Thanks for the tip
20100526 13:17:11< Crab_> ok, good.
20100526 13:17:43< Crab_> fendrin was thinking of an additional feature for the eclipse plugin, which fits quite well with the direction you've chosen for development
20100526 13:18:10< timotei> and that is?
20100526 13:18:11< Crab_> ' I would like to expand all macros (if possible) and implode them by default. If the coder is interested he/she can expand them and if he wants to change them eclipse should bring up the file where the macro is defined in the editor.'
20100526 13:18:33< timotei> well, I think that's achievable
20100526 13:18:50< fendrin> imploding/exploding is at least also nice for events.
20100526 13:19:06< fendrin> That don't need to be read only of course then.
20100526 13:19:22< timotei> well, yes
20100526 13:19:39< Crab_> yes, it's achievable, basically, by expanding everything once and by caching the indexes in the 'expanded' documents for each macro...
20100526 13:19:58< timotei> I love git :D
20100526 13:20:38< Crab_> :)
20100526 13:20:56< timotei> the stash thingy is unbelivable 
20100526 13:21:12< timotei> maybe I'll try to create some branches, so I can work in parallel on different things
20100526 13:26:17< Crab_> timotei: be sure to add a comment when creating a stash :)
20100526 13:26:43< timotei> Crab_: well, for no it's only 1-2 items in the stash (in my normal routine)
20100526 13:26:47< timotei> s/no/now
20100526 13:26:47< Crab_> timotei: since it'll be easier to figure out what's inside that way. )
20100526 13:26:49< Crab_> ok :)
20100526 13:26:51< timotei> Crab_: true
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20100526 13:36:14< timotei> mhh Crab_ how can I create a git working copy on a "new " folder on the svn?
20100526 13:36:32< timotei> I want to create a new folder "eclipse.wesnoth.org" here: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/website/
20100526 13:36:40< timotei> and init my git repo to point to that one
20100526 13:36:52< timotei> do I need to checkout myself the website first?
20100526 13:37:01< timotei> the *whole* website folder
20100526 13:38:37< Crab_> I suspect that you'll need to mkdir eclipse.wesnoth.org in there using svn, then init that as non-standard-layout git svn repo (without tags and branches)
20100526 13:39:08< timotei> Ivanovic: could you make a folder "eclipse.wesnoth.org" in the svn website folder?
20100526 13:39:50< CIA-86> timotei * r42891 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/preferences/WesnothEditorPreferences.java: eclipse plugin: "working dir" should be a directory field
20100526 13:39:58< CIA-86> timotei * r42892 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/preferences/ (3 files): eclipse plugin: add the "user data directory" preference
20100526 13:40:18< CIA-86> timotei * r42893 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (builder/ExternalToolInvoker.java utils/GUIUtils.java): eclipse plugin: move the "showMessageBox" into a global class
20100526 13:40:26< CIA-86> timotei * r42894 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/utils/GUIUtils.java: 
20100526 13:40:26< CIA-86> eclipse plugin: don't show a message box when the window
20100526 13:40:26< CIA-86> isn't created yet
20100526 13:40:33< CIA-86> timotei * r42895 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/utils/WorkspaceUtils.java: 
20100526 13:40:33< CIA-86> eclipse plugin: let's return the first Workbench Window if we have any
20100526 13:40:33< CIA-86> rather then the active one that might be 'null'
20100526 13:40:39< CIA-86> timotei * r42896 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/utils/GUIUtils.java: eclipse plugin: showMessageBox now can receive a style mask
20100526 13:40:48< CIA-86> timotei * r42897 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (4 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin: use the new "thread-safe" messagebox showing
20100526 13:41:02< CIA-86> timotei * r42898 /trunk/utils/java/update_site/ (7 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin: remove built .jars from the SVN
20100526 13:41:02< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42899 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/: add folder for timotei
20100526 13:41:08< timotei> Ivanovic: thank you
20100526 13:41:09< CIA-86> timotei * r42901 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/builder/SampleBuilder.java: eclipse plugin: run the ant job each time before building the project
20100526 13:41:21< CIA-86> timotei * r42900 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/ (.classpath META-INF/MANIFEST.MF): 
20100526 13:41:21< CIA-86> eclipse plugin: no need for that external jars.
20100526 13:41:21< CIA-86> Eclipse does have them already
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20100526 13:50:09< timotei> Ivanovic: btw, please update also the link from eclipse.wesnoth.org to point to the new svn location. Thanks
20100526 13:50:26< Ivanovic> first you should fill it with content
20100526 13:50:28< Ivanovic> ;)
20100526 13:50:33< timotei> ok
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20100526 14:30:32< CIA-86> timotei * r42902 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/ (index.html site.xml web/ web/site.css web/site.xsl): initial commit
20100526 14:31:11< CIA-86> timotei * r42903 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/ (9 files in 3 dirs): update 26 may 2010 - version 0.1.0
20100526 14:31:33< timotei> Ivanovic: ok commited things
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20100526 15:03:40< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42904 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/bin/update-gettext-stats: change update line to reflect latest changes
20100526 15:04:11< Ivanovic> timotei: done
20100526 15:06:05< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42905 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/bin/update-gettext-stats: forgot one change...
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20100526 16:15:21< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42906 /branches/1.8/po/ (10 files in 10 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) translation
20100526 16:15:22< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42907 /trunk/po/ (26 files in 26 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) translation
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20100526 16:53:07< kevg> wesbot: seen boucman
20100526 16:53:07< wesbot> kevg: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 16h 33m ago.  16h 33m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20100526 17:08:16< Crab_> hi, kevg
20100526 17:10:49-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 17:11:39< kevg> Crab_: hi
20100526 17:11:52-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 17:13:07< kevg> Crab_: its very interesting to work on Wesnoth but I have troubles with my time because of future session in university :(
20100526 17:14:13-!- Christheturtle [~Christhet@5e0efac7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100526 17:14:48< Crab_> yes, session time is interesting time ;)
20100526 17:15:00< Crab_> but, in retrospective, it's pretty short
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20100526 17:42:36-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 17:43:08< silene> Rhonda: ?
20100526 17:55:44-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 18:06:30< elias> would it make sense porting --preprocess to 1.8?
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20100526 18:31:37< CIA-86> silene * r42908 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added missing name accessor for event contexts.
20100526 18:31:41< CIA-86> silene * r42909 /trunk/src/ (Makefile.am arrow.cpp display.cpp): Fixed compilation of the arrow code.
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20100526 19:14:56-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 19:15:16< boucman> hey all
20100526 19:15:23-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100526 19:15:24< boucman> kevg: you calld for me ?
20100526 19:16:45< boucman> silene: out of curiosity, what is the rational for removing the "using" in arrow.*pp ? is it dngerous ?
20100526 19:17:52< silene> boucman: not really, as i explained a bit earlier; if the goal is too reduce clutter, i would much prefer typedefs; at least it tells something
20100526 19:18:12< boucman> ok, good point
20100526 19:20:59< kevg> boucman: hi. I just wanted to say that I've done nothing - I had no time. Sorry. Today I need to check one of my another uncommited patches. And I'll probably be able to continue easycoding task in some days.
20100526 19:21:34< boucman> k
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20100526 20:05:57< CIA-86> silene * r42910 /trunk/src/ (replay.cpp replay.hpp): Removed unused function replay::set_random_value.
20100526 20:09:18< CIA-86> silene * r42911 /trunk/src/ (team.cpp team.hpp): Removed unused function team::average_recruit_price.
20100526 20:12:17< kevg> silene: the purpose of https://gna.org/patch/?1670#postcomment is to replace lua code with c++ code with the same functionality. The main question: does it make any sense?
20100526 20:13:31< silene> kevg: if it doesn't break savegames, then yes it does
20100526 20:13:44-!- phlaem [~a@e178098038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 20:14:54< CIA-86> silene * r42912 /trunk/src/team.cpp: Removed unused class count_average.
20100526 20:17:13< kevg> silene: wml-tags.lua executes only once when .cfg file readed to start a new game/map?
20100526 20:17:55< silene> it is executed once each time a scenario is started or loaded
20100526 20:19:56< kevg> is there are some kind of cache for .cfg file? Does .cfg file actually reads when I am, for example, start some scenario several times?
20100526 20:24:05< silene> yes; first, wml files are preprocessed only once, they are then stored in binary format in .wesnoth/cache; second, when you reload the same campaign, most things are reused
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20100526 20:32:58< CIA-86> boucman * r42913 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/ (internal-generic.cfg overlay.cfg restricted-transitions.cfg): more macro reorganisation/generalization. ROTATION_RESTRICTED will have to wait before being generalized
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20100526 20:37:48< kevg> silene: Could you give me some ideas? Where should I look? Is there are only two pieces of code (first cfg read and load game) to change or more?
20100526 20:39:27< silene> kevg: i don't understand; what are you trying to do? and how is it related to the wml cache?
20100526 20:40:38-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 20:44:55< kevg> silene: I wanna make something useful. Is it needed to replace lua code related to showing objectives with c++? I just looking for some task to implement.
20100526 20:45:08-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 20:45:42< kevg> If no, I'll make something else.
20100526 20:47:18< silene> kevg: no, it's not really needed; perhaps you could take a look at https://gna.org/bugs/?16069 ; it's not small, but it is not really complicated either
20100526 20:48:21< silene> among possible solutions, add a depth field to floating labels and have them sorted according to this depth before rendering
20100526 20:50:43< kevg> silene: maybe later I'll check it, thanks for information. But now I already have a task to do.
20100526 20:50:48-!- billynux [~c8078d05@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100526 20:52:46< norbert_> Rhonda, thanks for the feedback; later today or within the next could of days I'll implement the changes you suggested and reply to your e-mail
20100526 20:53:17< norbert_> *couple
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20100526 20:57:39< boucman> esr: how do you check wml parameters using wmlvalidator ? is there a manline schema somewhere ?
20100526 20:59:27< Espreon> boucman: It should be in data/ somewhere. I think.
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20100526 21:01:35< noy> norbert_: the problem with your draft policy is that its not really a policy. 
20100526 21:01:48< noy> its more just a set of rules without a definable core. 
20100526 21:02:34< noy> Its like saying you can't kill a person with a knife, with a gun or a sword. 
20100526 21:02:57< noy> however if you push someone off a cliff thats okay... because its not in the rules
20100526 21:03:41< noy> Whats needed is something thats elastic; you cannot kill a person, or in this case, the bot cannot be used for spamming or something else. 
20100526 21:04:42< noy> I'll write that portion up and then maybe use some of the implementations that you listed in it. 
20100526 21:05:44< norbert_> sounds good
20100526 21:32:06-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100526 21:32:17< gabba> hi there
20100526 21:33:17< gabba> boucman: after all I commited the arrow class as a separate file, hopefully that's ok with you
20100526 21:33:25< boucman> sure
20100526 21:33:37< boucman> I saw that this morning
20100526 21:33:48< boucman> did you see silene's removam of "using " ?
20100526 21:34:15< gabba> boucman: no, I wasn't watching the commit log
20100526 21:35:07< boucman> well, he removed it arguing that typedef was the way to go...
20100526 21:36:14< gabba> boucman: ok well... I'm not an expert on the matter
20100526 21:36:50< gabba> he also removed parameter names from my unimplemented functions, did he give a reason for that?
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20100526 21:37:32< boucman> it's to avoid warnings about unused parameters
20100526 21:37:41< boucman> you can just add them back when you implement
20100526 21:38:13< boucman> (btw, we try as much as possible to commit code that compiles without warnings)
20100526 21:38:25< gabba> boucman: ah. I wasn't getting those warnings (I think)
20100526 21:38:40< boucman> hmm, that's weird, what's your compiler ?
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20100526 21:38:51< gabba> gcc that comes with Ubuntu Karmic
20100526 21:39:01< gabba> Or maybe I had them filtered in Eclipse
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20100526 21:39:26< boucman> i also have ubuntu, but compile from CLI, so most likely Eclipse...
20100526 21:39:33< gabba> I'll check that
20100526 21:39:37< boucman> yes, thx
20100526 21:40:51< silene> it's not just to avoid warnings; it's to be able to compile wesnoth at all (since wesnoth is compile with -Werror option)
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20100526 21:42:07< boucman> hmm
20100526 21:42:23< boucman> in that case it's very suprising gabba was able to compile...
20100526 21:42:28< gabba> silene: I always compile and run wesnoth before committing anything, so I don't understand
20100526 21:42:51< boucman> gabba: maybe eclipse reverts -Werror too...
20100526 21:43:02< gabba> I'm running make clean && make from command line right now on the same rev I commited
20100526 21:43:28< gabba> but Eclipse just calls /usr/bin/make from what I can see in its console, so...
20100526 21:44:02< boucman> mkay
20100526 21:44:15< gabba> maybe I did something wrong in the cmake settings? I disable language file generation to speed up the build, but apart from that nothing I think
20100526 21:46:00< silene> someone knowledgeable in scons and cmake should take a look at them; the strict mode is still there but I have a hard time understanding if someone broke it or not; for autotools at least, the strict mode works
20100526 21:47:18< gabba> works for me: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/KAwxzcHV
20100526 21:47:49< gabba> not a single warning
20100526 21:48:45< gabba> and ENABLE_STRICT_COMPILATION is on in the cmake settings
20100526 21:48:49< silene> is it with your version of arrow.cpp or mine?
20100526 21:48:53< gabba> mine
20100526 21:49:11< gabba> i.e. with the unused parameters
20100526 21:49:40< silene> do you have some verbose mode that would tell us which compile command is executed?
20100526 21:50:38< gabba> what I just pastebinned was from the command line, not from eclipse, but I'll post the Eclipse log as well in a sec
20100526 21:51:08< gabba> That's Eclipse: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/8MEWk1z8
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20100526 21:51:59< silene> no need too; i found the issue, the three build systems now add the -Wno-unused-parameter option, so the warning is actually disabled by default
20100526 21:52:02< gabba> by default it just runs "/usr/bin/make all", I actually changed it to "/usr/bin/make -j 4 all"
20100526 21:52:19< gabba> aha
20100526 21:52:50< silene> gabba: that's not what I meant, I just wanted to know what is hidden behing "Building CXX object"; but anyway, the point is moot now
20100526 21:53:36< gabba> I think it's good to have that warning disabled, especially when you're trying to code with a top-down approach as I'm doing now
20100526 21:53:50< silene> i wonder why the warning was disabled; especially since there aren't any single unused parameter in the whole codebase (except for the arrow.cpp ones)
20100526 21:54:05< gabba> can I have my parameter names back :P ?
20100526 21:54:29< silene> no; if i don't remove them, then mordante will, or someone else
20100526 21:55:33< gabba> You mean they'll get warnings? Aren't we all using the default Wesnoth build params?
20100526 21:55:57< CIA-86> boucman * r42914 /trunk/data/core/ (89 files in 2 dirs): thx to a few renaming, simplify the forest macros a lot. this could easily be changed into some generic overlay macros at some point
20100526 21:56:28< CIA-86> boucman * r42915 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/internal-complex.cfg: add forgotten new file
20100526 21:57:35< silene> gabba: yes, that's what i mean
20100526 21:57:54< gabba> silene: just trying to understand what's the official policy here... seems to me that if the warning is disabled by default, there's no reason for anybody to remove those
20100526 21:58:18< gabba> I mean if someone is using the option --extra-extremely-pedantic, it's their problem
20100526 21:58:39< silene> gabba: as i said, i don't understand why it is disabled by default, it shouldn't
20100526 21:58:58< gabba> ok
20100526 21:59:18< gabba> as long as the guidelines are clear, no problem
20100526 21:59:40< silene> gabba: you are getting it backward; it's not extremely pedantic; quite the contrary, it is the default behavior of gcc, and someone disabled it
20100526 22:00:03< gabba> I see
20100526 22:00:48< gabba> While we are at it, can you summarize why typedefs are better than using std::vector and the like?
20100526 22:01:26< gabba> Seems to me name collision can happen all the same, and I don't think anybody in his right mind is gonna create a class or struct called vector
20100526 22:01:40< gabba> unless he namespaces it
20100526 22:02:02< boucman> gabba: you'd be suprised what you can fine in industrial code :P
20100526 22:02:22< gabba> boucman: yeah but we're all smart people here isn't it ;)
20100526 22:02:50< gabba> (hopefully? maybe?)
20100526 22:03:00< boucman> actuall, one of the reason I do wesnoth it that looking at clean code after a day of work give me hope for the human specie :P
20100526 22:03:09< gabba> ha ha
20100526 22:03:39< gabba> silene: ^^^^
20100526 22:03:43< silene> gabba: typedef are not better, they are just shorter and more readable (though they are a bit better because of their usability in macros)
20100526 22:04:45< cjhopman_> a good typedef is a lot more readable than map<map_location, list<pair<surface, arrow const*>>> ... it can better convey what that type actually is used for
20100526 22:05:36< cjhopman_> it also allows that type to be changed later much more easily
20100526 22:05:50< gabba> curiously, I often have the impression that typedefs obfuscate the code
20100526 22:05:52< cjhopman_> if, for example the list in there were changed to a deque
20100526 22:06:07< gabba> maybe it's the habit of java coding where typedefs don't exist
20100526 22:06:41< cjhopman_> gabba: they do, in a way, obfuscate the code... that is, they hide the actual implementation of the type to some extent
20100526 22:07:03< gabba> but I agree that map<map_location, list<pair<surface, arrow const*>>> is ugly as hell :P
20100526 22:07:07< silene> gabba: consider your type "vector<pair<map_location, surface> >" for instance, you aren't to do a foreach on it; if there was a typedef, you could
20100526 22:07:16< silene> +allowed
20100526 22:07:34< cjhopman_> but i think an interesting topic is what to typedef
20100526 22:07:58< boucman> gabba: typedefs are like macros, they are just a tool, obfuscating and clarifying are both about hiding the details to the reader, so most tools can be used for both purpose
20100526 22:07:58< norbert_> it used to be possible to change the size of labels a user creates during a match; *test; <r,g,b>test; was this removed all together from 1.8?
20100526 22:08:47< cjhopman_> it may not be the case that "typedef map<location, list<pair<surface, arrow*>>> some_map_type" is not ideal
20100526 22:08:48< silene> yes, i think the idea was that another player shouldn't be allowed to mimick team labels by modifying their color
20100526 22:09:23< cjhopman_> it may be better to do "typedef list<pair<surface, arrow*>> some_list_type, and the use map<location, some_list_type>
20100526 22:09:39< gabba> ok, I'm gonna try to reconcile with typedefs then. Silene, why do you say a foreach on that data structure is not possible? Because it would be too much typing/unreadable, or some other reason?
20100526 22:10:14< silene> gabba: just try it; and it won't be a matter of which warnings are enabled or not, the compiler will just die an horrible death
20100526 22:10:18< cjhopman_> macros can't handle the commas in template parameter lists
20100526 22:11:00< norbert_> silene: myeah
20100526 22:11:18< gabba> Good that you tell me now, since I would certainly have tried it
20100526 22:12:42< gabba> cjhopman_: ^^^ indeed, the choice doesn't seem easy. I guess it depends how much you can reuse various defined types, or on which you want to iterate
20100526 22:17:11< gabba> boucman: I'm officially frying alive (36,2 oC with the humidity factor), so I think I'm gonna transfer work to my eeepc and keep coding at the library - not sure they have working wireless over there
20100526 22:17:19< Rhonda> norbert_: You're welcome. :)
20100526 22:17:39< Rhonda> silene: autofoo doesn't seem to like boost 1.42 somehow
20100526 22:17:52< silene> Rhonda: how so?
20100526 22:17:54< boucman> gabba: fair enough, I don't think there is much to discuss untill you have a prototype of arrow to show
20100526 22:18:24< boucman> do you have an idea when you would reach that step ?
20100526 22:18:36< gabba> right, I'm just filling in method bodies... I won't even try to compile until I'm back to my main computer
20100526 22:19:01< CIA-86> silene * r42916 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (minimap.cpp minimap.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tminimap::set_borders.
20100526 22:19:04< Rhonda> 09:38 <Rhonda> checking for Boost headers version >= 1.35... /usr/include
20100526 22:19:04< Rhonda> 09:38 <Rhonda> checking for Boost's header version... 1_42
20100526 22:19:04< Rhonda> 09:38 <Rhonda> configure: error: Invalid value: boost_major_version=142
20100526 22:19:11< CIA-86> silene * r42917 /trunk/src/server/ (server.cpp server.hpp): Removed unused function server::send_error_dup.
20100526 22:19:12< gabba> boucman: I'm aiming for friday, let's see if that's realistic
20100526 22:19:13< Rhonda> silene: That's what I get these days.
20100526 22:19:13< CIA-86> silene * r42918 /trunk/src/mp_game_settings.cpp: Removed useless dependencies.
20100526 22:19:18< CIA-86> silene * r42919 /trunk/src/editor/brush.cpp: Avoided costly roundtrip through strings.
20100526 22:19:20< CIA-86> silene * r42920 /trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt SConstruct configure.ac): Removed explicit disabling of compiler warning, as the current codebase compiles fine with it.
20100526 22:19:59< boucman> gabba: it should be... 
20100526 22:20:06< gabba> I think so too
20100526 22:20:24< gabba> ok, see you all
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20100526 22:20:37 * gabba will try to prevent the rest of his brain from melting
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20100526 22:24:23< silene> Rhonda: that's strange, 142 is exactly a version number the m4 should recognize
20100526 22:25:16< silene> Rhonda: can you tell me what is the content of the line containing BOOST_LIB_VERSION in /usr/include/boost/version.hpp?
20100526 22:28:38< Rhonda> silene: But 1_42 doesn't seem to be, is it?
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20100526 22:29:58< silene> Rhonda: no, it's fine, it's the way boost's versions are encoded; the script the just remove the underscores and check that only digits are left; this is obviously the case for 1_42, so i don't understand why it fails
20100526 22:32:01< silene> (for instance, mine is 1_40, and it works just fine)
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20100526 22:38:19< silene> Rhonda: i just installed the 1.42 ubuntu packages and it worked just fine; so i'm not sure what's wrong on your side
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20100526 22:54:45< Rhonda> silene: Hmm, strange that. Then I'll have to investigate further.
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20100526 23:31:06< CIA-86> caslav_ilic * r42921 /branches/1.8/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Updated localized images for French.
20100526 23:31:14< CIA-86> caslav_ilic * r42922 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Updated localized images for French.
20100526 23:31:27< CIA-86> caslav_ilic * r42923 /branches/resources/image-localization/fr/label-trow.xcf: Updated source localized images for French.
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--- Log closed Thu May 27 00:00:51 2010